Distraught in DC (A female friend): “SBM … why are men so confusing?”
SBM: *rolls eyes* “What do you mean dear friend of mine? How are we confusing you?”
DD: “It’s just that you guys just aren’t clear with your feelings and intentions.”
SBM: “Actually I feel that most guys are simple creatures. We’re usually pretty clear with what we mean … unless we’re lying. But lying isn’t just a guy thing by any means.”
DD: “No, I’m not calling you all liars. I just wish you would be clear.”
SBM: *knowing where this was going, I went ahead and stepped on the landmine* “What specific guy trouble are you talking about?”
DD: “Well, me and this guy have been dating for a month. Things are going great and I like him.”
SBM: “And the problem is?”
DD: “He doesn’t know what he wants. He told me he isn’t ready for a relationship.”
SBM: *looks puzzled* “What’s confusing about that? Sounds like he was pretty upfront.”
DD: “Yeah, but he acts so nice around me. I can tell he wants more.”
SBM: “The Man said he isn’t going to wife you. Why are you fooling yourself?”
DD: “Whatever SBM. You don’t know guys. You have to see the way he acts.”
This conversation has played out so many times, with so many different variances, and in so many different ways … it’s crazy. I’ve tried to look at it from different ways, different viewpoints, and different thought processes, but I keep coming to the same conclusion …
If someone says I don’t want X … then gotd*mnit … they just might mean it.
Lets look at another situation … from a male on male (pause) conversation.
Mad in MD (A male friend): “Man SBM … these chics out here are faking.”
SBM: *rolls eyes* “Whatever do you mean?”
MM: “So I’ve been seeing this girl for two weeks right. And she hasn’t slept with me yet.”
SBM: “Uh … please explain the faking.”
MM: “So she is at my spot, on the couch. At this point we’re kissing and she is half naked, but she won’t go into the bedroom.”
SBM: “Ok, I see your point. That was leading you on.”
MM: “Yeah. She’s gonna say just because she already told me 5 times she doesn’t have sex until months into things, that’s why I can’t get my smash on.”
SBM: *realizes he is not talking to a delicate female* “WTF man. The chic told you would be without pussy. I mean props for trying, but what the f*ck you mad for. She told you … dumb motherf**r”
MM: “I’m just sayin man …”
And here it is again. A wise man once said God gave us two ears and one mouth so we can listen twice as much as we talk … so why isn’t anyone listening. So often do people blatantly tell you they don’t want to be with anyone (read: you), they don’t want to sleep with anyone (read: you), or even straight up “you will never be more than a jumpoff to me” … and yet the “I’m not gonna give up” or the “I can conquer all” mentality just won’t let us listen.
While this message is mainly aimed at the lovely ladies who grace me with their presence here, there are a couple of whining guys who need to take head too.
Actions do speak louder than words, and I don’t want people to think that once they hear these words that all hope is lost … but it just might be. Words are not to be ignored. I don’t care if he looks deeply into your eyes every night, every morning he tells you he doesn’t want to get ever married and that your sister is real sexy.
I know someone has some little story that goes against this wisdom, please share it … its is the anomally. Who else is an avid listener taking head to the truth? Who are the ones convinced they can enact change? Let me know …
**Claps** this was a very good post
Alrighty, so one time, way back when, I liked a guy. I was just beginning to become the smart lady I am today (smile) so when he told me, "I don't do serious", and serious was my middle name then, we opted to become friends. Well, sure enough, this man that who was so adamant about not wanting anything serious (he should of had bachelor for life tattooed on his chest)flips the script. He wants to be with me, "let's do the serious thing." Lol, unfortunately he had become a squatter in the friend zone and I couldn't see him any other way.
This probably wasn't exactly what you were looking for. I unfortunately don't have a story of ignorning what folks say and getting them to give in to what I want, lol. I'm good but not that good.
All I can say is if you learn to listen, life gets a whole lot easier fast! People tell you who they are in the beginning, before they know you. Then when they like you, they try to change who they are or what they want to keep you around (this goes for men and women) but ultimately (and this is why there are more break ups than happy relationships) it doesn't work.
If a guy you are talking to has been married 2 or 3 times and says he doesn't want a relationship and doesn't want to get married ever again – LISTEN! If a guy you have been seeing casually for two years says "I'm not ready for a relationship" – LISTEN! There's nothing you can do to change it. Listen to what people tell you in the beginning. If it isn't what you want to hear – keep it movin' and save yourself years of drama and dissatisfaction.
I agree SBM. People need to listen but they don't. People think they are the exception, so they keep hope alive.
I've also had Jane Doh's experience happen to me… me and this guy were getting serious but he came to a screeching halt, talking about "I'm not ready." When he learned that I was seeing other people, he broke fool.
I am going to have to agree with my buddy SBM. People don't listen. IF you tell someone "I'm not doing XYZ.." then they are like well you can do "TUV" probably not…That's what I've had people who hear me say I am not going to do one thing so they are like what about this…NO! fool…that's not how it works…
Its magic vagiana syndrom. Some women belive that if they throw it right he will change his mind.
I am an avid listener. I listen to EVERYTHING what you say, what you don't say, and how it is that you say it. I pay attention to your body language. Everything. And if you say you don't want a relationship now I pay attention to that as well. So much so if what you said and what I want are not in alignment I'm not sticking around to channge your mind. I'm moving to the next guy.
People have selective hearing–they hear what they want to hear.
Like Nikki said, some folks think they will be the exception. We sometimes cause our own heartbreaks because we do not heed the words.
There's nothing 100 percent because some will tell you they want a relationship, while sexing 4 other women at the same time. For the most part–the men I've come across will tell you whether or not they are interested in settling down.
If I'm looking for a relationship and he says, he's not–he's put in the friend zone and even if he later changes his mind–he will have to work harder to prove to me that he's ready for a committed relationship.
I had this guy in college who was straight up brutially honest with me and it worked…other guys (not all) kinda "play that roll" because they want "some"…but I do agree, most people (women) have selective hearing…They think he'll change…
It's like trying to teach a dog to go in a litter box…a one in a million chance
Okay sooo I feel what your saying here, but… people change their minds, and shit happens. When I first started dating my boyfriend he told me that he didnt want a relationship. His actual words were "I hope your not looking for a boyfriend, cause Im gonna be single for a while" my response was "im never LOOKING for a boyfriend, dont flatter yourself" and look at us now, boo'd up and what not, although that was never in my plans. I guess thats why some people ignore those type of statements, hoping they can make a person reconsider.
I've been through these scenarios so many times it's a damn shame.
@Ziggy: So if you were looking for a boobookins and he wasn't looking for a wifeykins, then your scenario is probably a bit different than that of the chick who straight up thinks that she can change a guy and get him interested. Actually, it's your scenario that gives those type of chicks hope that they can convert a man over to the dark side.lol.
I strictly adhere to the concept of what a man says is what he means. Saves me a lot of trouble. I stop trying to "read" people when I found out that they had no depth. LoL.
We all have selective hearing especially depending on the person and level of emotional involvement. I've been the victim of dudes telling me they're not ready for something serious, I fall back to just being friends and they start treating you like a gf. Can we say mixed signals? I'm not good at mixed signals to be honest.
The dude I've been kicking it with for the past year is this situation. He doesn't want to be serious, say he's okay if I date other guys. I'm cool with that. I have my companionship with him and I can still mingle. But when I told him I went out on two lunch dates he got p*ssed! I had never seen him so mad, but I'm like WTF you mad about you said you were okay with it, you don't want to be serious with me, what gives?! Till this day I feel like I'm on a tightrope. I care for him to pieces and don't want to loose what we have but da*n, if we're not going anywhere let me date.
Let me find out that SBM is getting wiser in his old age.
You are right. Period. But it goes both ways. If I tell a man that I'm looking for a companion and he says he isn't looking for a relationship then don't continue to step to me knowing that I don't want to be bothered with the half hearted attempts. Don't create that buffer by saying, "well i'm not looking but if something happens…" because at that moment you're leading me on.
Now as a wise and mature woman it is my responsibility to see the bullsh!t for what is it and keep on moving, BUT as a human being who craves human contact it's not so easy to walk away.
Women live while "hoping"…and this can be our greatest strength and weakness. We are always looking for optimism even when there is clearly none to be seen.
@ Slim,
Honestly Slim, imma keep it real and renigg. As I started to catch feelings for him, deep deep deeeepppp down inside I wanted to change his mind… but I never let it be known (verbally) Partly because I have a problem with people telling me I cant have/get something I want (I was kinda spoiled as a child) Before the feelings came into play, I didnt even see him being my man b/c I really was not looking for a boyfriend. I see how situations like mine can give a false sense of hope to "those type of chicks" as you put it… and why does it have be a conversion to the dark side… dag lol!
Reign same thing happened to me a couple of weeks ago…dating this guy, he doesn't want anything serious and I'm like cool. I meet another guy, go on a couple of dates and I kiss him. I tell dude that I'm "dating" about my dates and the interrogation begins…when he found out I kissed him, OMG he straight up lost it because, "he thought i was only dealing with him"…uhhh, why would you think that?!?!?
"when he found out I kissed him, OMG he straight up lost it because, “he thought i was only dealing with him”…uhhh, why would you think that?!?!?"
@Jasmine,
Men are territorial. The End.
I had a similar situation to Ziggy. I wasn't even looking for a relationship although I had caught feelings pretty bad when the guy I was casually dating just out of the blue says he doesn't want a girlfriend. I played it cool and didn't press things and actually kinda feel back some. 6 months later we were in a serious relationship and now we're happily married. I never pressured him, never gave any ultimatums, I just let it play out and this is how it did. I do think that my situation is an unusual one and very rarely happens.
I think you should listen what a person says but I also have to consider that if I would have just completely let it go right then, I wouldn't be where I am right now.
@ Slim response to Jasmine: lol… Is that what it is?! If so, then why not just make it official and monogamous? You want to have us to yourselves but don't want a relationship and don't want us to continue to explore our options? WTF is that.
@ Tam: You are the exception lol
Reign yeah that's that bullsh!t.
But I don't think Tam is the exception. Men will ONLY do what you allow them to do…give them standards and guidelines and they eventually follow suit. If they don't then they're not the guy for you. Tam's then "friend" realized that losing her would cause him more pain than committing and he stepped up to the plate.
And you know what, sometimes MEN don't even know what they want. They think they want to be single and then only lonely Saturday night they realize that being single is not what's hot. Look at our dear SBM, a year ago he was swearing off women. A bad relationship later, he was ready to give it another try, and even started thinking about having a wife and kids someday.
In my opinion relationships are mainly about standards and timing, most of the time it's just dumb luck that you meet a person who's on the same wavelength as you are.
Tam's situation doesnt sound all that exceptional to me. Sounds like her guy said something, she listened, and it wound up paying off in the way she wanted. No science to that…well, maybe that could be a "blueprint" for others.
The more I think about this the more I keep refining my stance. Now I am a firm believer that minds can be changed and do change, but I think my ultimate beef is with people who get mad that they failed to change someone's mind. Like man … you can't get mad that you didn't get the p*ssy you were told you could not get.
Also … I can't stand any woman who claims "but he treated me like he wanted me to be his girlfriend!". Yeah he did … he was trying to smash!
Back to the grind.
totally agree. nothing is more basic than a man, women are cryptic and complex.
and nothing, i mean NOTHING is more basic than the american black male.
I think since we have the most cunning women in the country, another side effect of our romantic problems is they out think themselves. cuz we are no where near as intricate and complex and deep as they are (yet) and we are lightyears away from those brothas in the romance novels and movies.
I pretty much dumped every woman I dated that was not only dating me… but I told every woman I dated that I was "still going out on dates"… slim is right, and i will double down on what he said by saying what U always say "we have the numbers on our side, so we can do that"
What's with this assessment of SBM and dating??? What's all this talk of a wife and kids? I've always wanted to be married and have a small army of smartass little SBMs running around. And to say I was running around swearing off women sounds a bit harsh (and gay). I was just a man jaded … rather common.
And there are a million reasons to want to have someone exclusive and to yourself, but not enter into a relationship. Things change once that label comes out … and 75% of the time its for the worst!
SBM, I've been checking out your blog for about a week now. I've thoroughly enjoyed most of what I've read so far and the more I read, the more I realize that I know absolutely nothing about men and relationships. This is an opinion that I've formed from reading many of the commentaries as well. There are some very smart SBM and SBW out there when it comes to relationships. Thanks for the honest candor folks! All is not lost for me as I've determined to look at other's experiences as well as examine my past (failures and good choices) to do and be better (be true to myself) going forward.
This topic resonates with me enough to respond: This has been my number 1 issue. My last situation was like this. He said he did not want to move forward as a couple; yes he had me around him all the time, introduced me to his entire family, left me alone with his mamma, bought me thoughtful and meaningful gifts, spent a great deal of time with me on the phone, chatting in person, going on dates, cooking for me, I for him, etc…This was all before the sex ensued. We actually enjoyed each other in this capacity for over 4 months before things became sexual. Did we kiss, share affection, show physical interest in one another? Yes. But I never got the impression that all this was in an effort to get my jewels. Do you honestly think that?
Needless to say we finally had sex, which we both enjoyed and continued to do so for over a year ,[ we both dropped the L-Bomb on each other] until I decided that I had to move on since I was in love with this man but I knew he'd never give me what I wanted from him. Does this make me stupid? Was I played? I don't feel that way. I think this was a case of two people who cared a lot for each other but one just did not want the constraints of a relationship. I don't know. I'm still a little foggy about it. But in the end I had to move on from him. I was playing myself in thinking that I could change his mind with my “good woman” ways, my genuine love for him, etc. But he’s just not there with me or [he claims] with anyone and that’s okay! I refused to even take it as a personal insult because this man did not share all of the above with me if I meant absolutely nothing to him. Or am I just that delusional? I honestly want to know. As I stated, it’s my purpose to learn, grow and do better.
Gem, girl he just wasn't ready. No woman can make a man ready…he has to come to terms with it on his own. If losing you wasn't enough to kick his tail into gear then consider yourself saved from heartache 6 years down the line.
I'm telling you…it's mostly timing, and that's nothing that any one person can control.
not ready and not interested are not synonymous.
but thats a very logical play on gems part. not every relationship has to be your last one. in truth, the sign of a good black woman or good black man, is not how much money is in the bank or what car they drive… but how many good relationships they have had.
the end of every relationship dont really have to be a big dramatic blow up… life is long, the person who thought it was short wasnt thinking ahead.
Its generally pretty simple when a man says he doesnt want to be in a relationship it just means he doesnt want to be in a relationship with you.
I agree that a lot of folks suffer from that selective hearing syndrome. But a lot of folks are also afflicted with "I dont know what I want" syndrome. As Jasmine noted, men who "claim" to want to be casual & noncommitted suddenly get their feelings hurt when they realize that they weren't the only one being casual and noncommitted.
At this point in my life I've figured out what I want (a relationship), I make it known from jump, and I move on when the other party feels differently. I'm not in a "lets just hangout and see what develops" space anymore. I'm in a "I'm looking for someone for a longterm commitment" space.
I rhink I was rambling…oh well….
HNIC: not ready and not interested are not synonymous.
The Don: when a man says he doesnt want to be in a relationship it just means he doesnt want to be in a relationship with you
Well damn, which one is it?
@ Dom i cant say its universal or it even aplies to hnic but when i say i dont want a relationship that means the chick is not up to par with what im looking for as far as wifey potential but im willing to knock it down.
@Gem: I don't think you got played or should feel bad about it. You enjoyed his company and time, but sadly it didn't materialize. Your situation I will say is the poster child for this post. I'm not saying that being in this situation is horrible or playing yourself, but if he does say XYZ … there is a good chance that no matter how good you are, how well you put it on him, or the fact that you moved in with him … at any point he/she can just say "but I already told you" and you have to be OK with it … because they were honest with you.
I will admit that I have often said "I don't want a relationship" when I meant I just didn't want to be with the person … but then again I have said it and really just didn't want to be with anyone (read: I was having fun running the streets).
You can just never know … but it doesn't matter … it only means one thing to "her" … sh*t aint happenening.
@gem and reign
i am going through this right now. the guy i'm seeing stated from jump that he was looking for friendship (which i was cool with), but he treated me like his girlfriend (he admits to this). hell there were times when he openly referred to me as his girlfriend. but then the next day he would say he wasn't ready for a relationship. i'm trying to allow for some growth since he is coming off a divorce (almost a year now). but the reality is i'm waiting in vain; just like SBM said when they say something they mean it. now its about moving on without carrying that "you lead me on baggage"
I think the best lesson for me was to walk away from something that was not cohesive to what I want(ed). The great thing is that I'm not mad or bitter about it. He was a good friend to me. He treated me very well and with respect. I think I had to get over my "ego" in this case and realize that it was not about me and "but I'm a good woman, how can you not want to be with me" complex. Yes, I still believe that I'm a good woman but so are many others and maybe I was just not the one for him and vice versa. We are still cool, I'd even dap him up if I see him in the streets.
The question I still have with this action vs. words thing is that I was raised to believe that men are people of action and their intentions are always displayed in action. Not the case? Or only the case when they are actually committed to a woman? I know I may sound green but I'm really trying to humble myself and learn something about you men. LOL!
@Gem: We become easier to figure out the less time you spend trying to figure us out …
I know its confusing … but trust and believe … truer words have never been spoken.
@ SBM
We become easier to figure out the less time you spend trying to figure us out…
These words could not be any clearer. What I can't understand is how this is hard to understand.
This is a fantastic post! I read it earlier today and didn't have the time to post. Its a listening and comprehension problem that most people have. People tend to hear what they want to hear. I have heard and seen both of those scenarios playout countless times with friends, family and associates. I made a decision last year that I would not be the one "not listening and comprehending" any longer.
lol.. I have convos like that with people all the time. Some folks just need to listen more.
I'm experiencing it now. I'm honest about things when asked but it seems to keep coming back up, thinking my mind can be changed. It can't. It'll change when I'm ready for it to change.
Oh, I am experiencing this right now. I had a huge crush on this young man I met several years ago, and only recently (last summer) we hooked up. I caught feelings because I had always liked him, but after seeing each other for about 4 months he told me quite clearly and unceremoniously "I'm not gonna be the one to fall in love" which basically meant to me "it's never gonna go further than kickin it in the bedroom or at the bar for drinks and chat."
I didn't get the picture. We hang out at the same bar (where he is the house musician-a trombone player), and every time I see him I've kinda sorta tried to convince him that he should be with me. Can we say "Pathetic?" I am cool with all of his friends, and when we talk the conversation often turns to the young trombone player, and I talk about how much I "love him." I have made the ultimate fool of myself because he made it clear as plastic wrap-crystal clear, no game playing- that wants no parts of me (any more)
Boo hoo
But now I've moved on, and though I still check him out when he does his thing (musically), I refuse to speak to him or look in his direction outside of that. This was the first time in my life I have ever made such a fool of myself for some dude. But honestly it was a lesson learned. NEVER EVER PURSUE A DUDE WHO DON"T WANT YA!!!
I also think this is a fantastic post! I'm going through this right now with the man I've been dating for the past couple of months. He told me from the start he didn't want a long term relationship, and I told him that I'd agree to date him if we just take it day to day with an open mind to what could be as we get to know each other. He is also separated and going through a transition and wants to accomplish certain goals in the next couple of years. And has now said he doesn't know if he will have much time to spend with me…that he's not ready to be in a relationship…that he needs to spend time on his own…but loves also to spend time with me!…but says it's not going anywhere. Well, I'm having a hard time with it, because he's the most wonderful person to come along in years and has treated me so well, we get along well, and I am myself with him and vice versa…. BUT…I'm now absorbing all that's been posted and damn it's hard!! My dating experiences over the past 10 years have not been very proud experiences…in fact, some shameful and some regretful..the men have been disrespectful…some more than others. And then this man shows up in my life and has been sooo wonderful. My heart doesn't want to let go, but my mind knows…it's the best thing to just let him go. I'm still working on it, but if anyone has any suggestions on how I can get past this, and move on, I'd welcome them…cuz I'll need the help to move on!