I am Dr. J, no I’m not a real doctor, but I play one on TV. I am admittedly conservative when it comes to relationships and roles, however, I’m also a bit over-the-top when it comes to expressing my feelings. For those of you who have followed me on facebook and on my personal blog, (thebookofjackson.blogspot.com), you know that I have no shame in my game. I live under the bus, and know how to get my foot out of my mouth. Please enjoy this reading material.
A lot of emphasis is put on how many is too many. Many of you have had off line conversations with me to know that I just don’t think numbers are that relevant. I’m going to explain to you in a short how a girl can have sex with 27 guys before the age of 22 and not be a ho.
Let’s say, Toya has had two partners before entering college. Her first when she was 16 and her boyfriend senior year of high school.
Casualties Reported: 2
Freshman Year – She sleeps with two guys first semester. During her winter break, she sleeps with a guy from HS that she wanted to sleep with in HS, but always had a boyfriend. Relationships and situations don’t always work out so she starts to believe the guys were grimy and move on. During the spring semester she sleeps with two more guys.
Casualties Reported: 7
Summer Break – She meets a new guy that she ends up boo’ing up for the summer.
Casualties Reported: 8
Sophomore Year – She sleeps with two guys each semester, and one guy no-strings-attached on spring break.
Casualties Reported: 13
Junior Year – Same. Well, this year she dips out on her situation in the spring and sleeps with a random guy she’s always had her eye on.
Casualties Reported: 19
Summer Break in Europe – Sleeps with a guy during her trip to Paris.
Casualties reported: 20
Senior Year – Same. You get two free throws with graduation; a freshman boy and one last person you always wanted to sleep with but never did.
Casualties Reported: 27
There you have it. 27 guys and this girl hasn’t reach 22 yet. And she’s not a ho, she’s not doing anything that anyone would consider risky behavior, she’s just not living the life of a wife. A lot of dudes would be hard stressed to call this woman a ho because honestly, honestly honestly these are slow years for a dude in college.
What I really want to bring attention to is the reasons. The reasons are more important than the outcome. Notice I didn’t say she got drunk and slept with some random dude at a house party. Notice she didn’t have any random threesomes or crazy sex stories. I wouldn’t recommend any women go out here and sleep with 27 guys and then say I’m not a ho because sleeping with 27 guys because of this blog is no bueno.
I’m interested to hear your thoughts. Ladies, is this girl a ho? Having had it explained in a detailed format, doesn’t it seem plausible? I mean, we ALL know this girl. Gentlemen, is this girl a ho? If this was a guy and not a ho, would he be praised as a Spartan? Comments are welcome.
Always keeping it 1000,
Dr. J
Nope she's not a ho – but 2 a semester seems kinda high (to me)
What's a semester 10-12 weeks? So about 3 – 4 months. That's not really giving yourself too much time to get to know someone. If you waited 3 months before sleeping with each partner then at max you would have 4 a year. If you had 2 a semester that doubles you to 8 a year. 8 different dudes in a year is a lot.. but that's just what I think.
I wouldn't label her a hoe because sex is viewed so many different ways by people. Some folks view it as the ultimate liberty to express oneself. Some view it as sacred and to be shared with a very select few. To label the person would be judging them. I believe that's why its ridiculous for a person to ask their mate about a number. It makes no difference as long as they are clean when they get with you and you all are on the same page as to what kind of relationship you all are going to be in. Now if this said woman was going around making PSA's that she'd been with this many people for whatever reason, she is clearly setting herself up to be labeled. Unfortunately, that is the society we live in.
For arguments sake, lets say she did give this information to someone who wanted to get with her. Like you said, this is a mere fraction of the typical body count for a guy her age. If this guy who asked her had a body count of 127, in his eyes, would he see her as a hoe?
I know plenty of dudes that had a body count of 30 in a less than a year and wouldn't touch her if she told him that her's was 27 in 8 or so years. They'd view her as tainted, used goods…a hoe if you will. Even if she broke it down the way you did it wouldn't matter.
As far as the guy being in this situation, I myself would not label him a hoe but I certainly wouldn't be jumping at the opportunity to get him in the sack based on his "experience" for the simple fact I would be more concerned as to where his head is at on quality versus quantity at this point in his life.
More importantly, I'd be more concerned with what type of partners and his STD/HIV/AID/KID status because that is the type of world we live in today. Real talk.
I can't really co-sign this post because it conflicts a strict standard of mine.lol. Good Job provoking a response though!
Those numbers, to me, are a bit reckless. She may not be a ho per say, but she's definitely not the type of woman I'd wanna date. That's a little too liberal for me.
I personally don't think she's a ho, liberal numbers or not. college is where fun, and even somewhat reckless fun is had by all. male and female. I still wouldn't be breaking down my number system with anyone–I believe in sexual discretion–that includes who I sleep with and who I discuss it with, but seeing it broke down like this makes perfect sense to me of how it COULD happen, give or take some numbers because some semesters are more "intense" than others. LOL.
No I do not think she is ho but I would strongly not advise any woman or man for that matter to be sleeping with alot of people esp in my city and in this day and age..if you do you must have a death wish…
I think its kinda crazy to even ask that question tho of a man or woman..things more relavent are your health history/status and how them folks are living in the present……promiscuity is not a good look on anyone.
Call me crazy. Shorties a ho. And in our effort to rationalize things is when we start interpreting and mis-interpreting.
Essentially this woman makes a series of bad decisions. The reasons become less and less important as she continues to make the same mistakes.
Like clockwork she's got atleast 2 guys a semester, and a one night stand during spring break. The semester starts in late August, maybe september. Before December hits she's got 2 bodies, then we get to January, by March she has one, then her infamous, regularly scheduled one night stand and then another before May, and let's not forget the summer fling. The issue here is her consistency at making bad decisions and being loose with the goose.
She sounds like the type of girl, who if pursued, sleeps with the person pursuing her. How many one night stands do you have to have to know that, this is a little slutty.
If your saying, well she's not the kind of girl for me, that's your PC WAY OF SAYING, SHE'S A HOE.
We can not say well she made a few bad decisions, no, she made 4 years worth of bad decisions that may not be reckless tot he original poster but are extremely reckless in my eyes. Would you want your daughter living her life like this, I would hope not.
Toya is a ho. And if that were a dude, he'd be a ho also. I'm sorry but if you sleep with 6 to 7 different people a year for consecutive years…you're a ho. Really aint much way around that. I mean…her ENTIRE college career? Christ.
That's about right…although the report would come out that she only slept with 5.
Dr J. – Hot post my dude!!
I love the double standard that we impose upon women. There are dudes out here with MLB batting averages as a number but yet they get a pass. I don't think shorty is a ho because in this day and age sex is more liberal. I think the numbers are comperable to yesteryear, only difference that people were strict and conservative in discussing sex.
I don't ask about numbers because that is a personal aspect of an individual that they should voluntarily share. I've gotten into arguments with former gf's about my number. Not because it was astronomical, but because that was a part of me that I didn't want to share, just because I didn't want to be judged and although she told me her #, her future actions made my skepticism in that # warranted, lol.
I even had a chick I was lightly dating continuously harping on my #, or lack of discussion. I found it very intrusive because I was getting to know her and I don't think that should be an initial topic of conversation! Of course the ones who WANT to know say they've been with only 2 ppl, hahahah!
Ladies do you dismiss a brother as a potential bf if his # is high? What about if your # is comparable to his? When is it appropriate to ask?
My responses to comments:
@reecie – life is cumulative, baby. you cannot write-off past transgressions as "college". if you smash 27 people in college, the first person in your professional like, is still 28, not 1.
@Kwana in DC – i agree with you. i swear, the circle of young professionals in this city is so small, that if one person caught something, everyone would have it in weeks. but i will say that 6 or 7 girls or dudes a year is not hard. especially with the way this lifestyle enables females in dc… it's ridiculous.
@ME – excellent point, however, most women who are pursued, not just hollered at, i think they end up sleeping with the guy. but excellent point about pursuing.
@CPT Callamity – Church, Preach…. TABERNACLE.
The women's lib movement has forever damaged the ho-dar
While I understand the "premise" and I do think there is an unfair double standard … this chic is definitely a ho.
She's not a super ho, and def not an ultra ho, but she def counts as your typical ho.
7 a year, including a hardcore one nighter, and to keep consistent with that for 4 years straight is def ho activity. If a dude did it, I would tell that n***a he's a ho too. I call a couple of my good dudes ho's … their just ok with it unlike women doing the same.
Straight ho….come on 27? Filthy. I wouldn't touch a chick who banged 27 dudes.
Call em' santa clause cause that is a ho.
Streetz true story, I had a conversation with an boyfriend once–I had actually first met him when I was a virgin. we dated briefly during that time, but nothing serious then got together later. He asked about my number, I had no qualms about telling him because I figured it was low enough, LOL. It was more than 5, less than 10. He told me his was….wait for it…..
33!
and we are the exact same age. clearly he either started earlier than me, or was getting it in on a higher rate. I did not break up with him, but I definitely didn't have that conversation with another man ever again. LOL. it honestly doesn't matter to me. your current status (checkup status I mean) and propensity to cheating on me matter more…..
"What I really want to bring attention to is the reasons. The reasons are more important than the outcome. Notice I didn’t say she got drunk and slept with some random dude at a house party. Notice she didn’t have any random threesomes or crazy sex stories."
oO <—- these are my crazy eyes. This my friends, is a ho. What were the reasons here? NOTHING! She just wanted to do the do with different guys. According to this logic above, she'd only be a ho if she got drunk at a house party, or had a threesome, or had sex in the staircase of Hauser Hall? I don't think a just high number of sexual partners alone makes you a ho…buuuut a high number of "hook ups" amidst those partners, yeeeaaaa.
@ Dr. J…I wasn't implying that you could write off your past at all. I know its still 28, I'm not a fronter. LOL. I know people have different definitions for whoredom so I'm not going there.
Oh … forgot to mention its a well known fact that I am a fan of full disclosure. I mean … my number doesn't define me … but its mine. Its sh*t I did, and I shouldn't have done it if I'm gonna hide it.
A ho is a ho but I'm not one to judge. Quite honestly, I don't ask a chick how many dudes they've slept with but they usually try to offer it as some sort of sacrificial lamb (read: they want me to tell my numbers).
Personally, I don't have a problem with people who admit to wanting to get their freak on but sheesh…don't blow smoke up the hiney by trying to act like you've only had 2 (multiplied by 10 + the few randoms that you "don't count.").
Giving away the cookie because you've had you're eye on him…. Ho.
Giving away the cookie on average to two guys a semester (avg 4 mths)… Ho.
Giving away the cookie to more than half the guys where there is no real committment… Ho.
Giving away the cookie to two guys on graduation… Definitely a Ho.
Co-signing Running Mom. Two a semester though? That's a lot of miles on a Bentley, I'm just saying.
I think our semesters in school were 15 weeks, but thats neither here nor there. I was thinking the entire school year. and even a school year is not the same as a real world out of school year. clearly I've been out of school too long. I didn't read RunningMom's post initially but I agree that 8 in a year is a lot.
1) I think the idea that a woman is giving it up just because she is being "pursued" is a bit wild, and smacks of obscene hoedom. At a certain point, self-worth has to creep into the equation.
2) You gonna let 20 cats at the same school, in the same general vicinity smash, and not expect your name to be ALL in the streets?!?!?! That's just crazy talk. Even major metropolitan areas are devoid of a large enough young black professional population for you not to get crossed up in the game. I support recycling, but this babe (or dude if you switched it up) is a bit TOO eco-friendly.
Bad decision-making, bad decision-making, bad decision-making!
Dr J,
Are all these dudes just dudes she boned while in college, or all dudes AT her college. If this is 27 all at the same school, then that's a lot of streetztalk to be had by all…
Fellas who say that "8 is enough" – Would you rather she lie to you? If she gives you the classic "I can count on one hand how many ppl I slept with, do you believe initially?"
I always wonder how women with so few parterns can eb super duper freaks in bed and at times be so good…
also, what if your mothers ever told you their #s and it was off the charts, what would you say about them? It disgusts me too, and I would Plaxico myself if my mom ever had THAT conversation with me.. but it's a legit question nonetheless
I'm quite the free spirit so I tend to think differently on the topic than most women so here it goes…
It boggles my mind to see how women place their pussy on a pedestal. What I mean by this is, why is a woman labeled a whore or hoe b/c she decided to give up the goods. There are some women who don't think of their goods as being the ultimate prize awarded to the man that shows himself worthy. Some women actually think that there are other aspects of themselves (a certain level of trust, respect, loyalty, etc) that they should guard more than their goodies. Whether you believe in this train of thought or not, there are women out there who are secure in themselves and their own personal moral code that they don't need to keep their sexual partners to a number that is accepted by the masses or will make them feel less…"open" if you may, lol.
Now, although I think that the girl mentioned is a lot "free-er" than most, I wouldn't call her a hoe…unless she got money for the aforementioned acts, lol.
I don't like to call anyone a "ho." There are people who engage in sexual behavior that makes me cringe. However, I don't like to judge anyone when it comes to sexual behavior because it is all relative, and there is a definite unfair double standard attributed to women. Toya is a more free sexually than I am, but I do not think that makes her ho.
I generally don't even ask for numbers, it's just not something I think about. It's more important to look at myself and my partner to make sure that we are safe and comfortable with whatever we are doing, health wise and emotionally. As in getting tested together, being safe, and making sure the person is not dipping out on me left and right. Although past actions can sometimes be an indicator, they are definitely not outcome determinative, so I look at the totality of the circumstances.
LMAO @ Streetz and "I would Plaxico myself if my mom ever had THAT conversation with me.."
LMAO@ this post… I don't LIKE to label but this girl def has hoe-like tendencies. If it was a dude i'd say the same thing. You don't have to sleep with every dude that pursues you and clearly this chick was doing somethin akin to just that. 2 a semester basically averages out to 1 every 2 months.. 1 month is only 4 weeks! Before her hair can grow a couple inches she done did somebody new. NO BUENO
I don't think someones # is anybody's business but if they share it hey they have to deal with the consequences of letting the cat out the bag…
As for chicks who are super duper freaks and have low # Mr. Streetz… You could be with ONE dude and learn A LOT of tricks. If the sexual relationship is open to experimentation you could go in a Virgin and come out with Porn Star abilities…. Sweeeeet!!
Goodness – why even ask? There are sooo many things that may contribute to person's prior sex life that have nothing to do with their current partner, like:
1. Their relationship with God
2. Sexual abuse in their past
3. Their relationship with drugs and alcohol
4. Their self esteem and need for attention
5. What their friends were doing and considered "average"
6. Finding themselves sexually
7. Many other things that I can't think of right now.
A person's number will always upset somebody – even if it is really low – so why bother to ask? If you care, ask them to accompany you to the clinic for some test, together.
@Streetztalk – never, EVER think about or ask about your mother's sex life. Unfortunately, moms start talking bout personal bidnezz when their daughters reach a certain age. You don't want to know, trust me!!!
And there are plenty of women with low numbers who are very sexually adventurous. She may have done a lot with a few people, or she may be a regular pron watcher. Freaks are born, ho's are made.
when i 1st read this i was like naw she aint a ho…then these comments had me thinking…well darn mayb Toya is a ho..lol…but i've concluded that while toya's numbr is high…and she did act a bit ho-ish.. i think that one shuldnt only take into acct the numbr of ppl..but also time and the situation behind each partner. So i guess i'm slightly on the fence about blatantly callin her a ho..she was handlin her bizness but a tad wrecklessly.
Sad part is that if this was a guy…alotta fellas wuld b slappin him up for his "extra curricular"activities.
@ DrJ: lmao that was funny… and yes not even jeezus can change my mind on this on
Yep serial monogiamist which is the good girl way of being a ho
first of all have never/and will never ask a woman her number. that’s her business. if she asked me my number i would laugh in her face. i mean at the end of the day what difference does it make. things that are more important to me are things like:
~are you std free?
~how sexually compatible are we?
~are still fucking any of those dudes now?
@ Somethin’ Special – You never want to pull a move on a new guy and have him be like, “Where did she learn how to do that?” LOL. Many of fellas have been fellated and been like, now how did she get so good at that? Practice makes perfect.
@ Streetz – I went to school with 13,000 (undergrad/grad), man that’s a pretty big community. I wrote this post under the assumption that these were either dude’s at her school, nearby schools, or visiting (sinister grin).
@ Reign – Sorry but your response reminding me of the mother in Big Brother, no matter what you say your mind is made up. Spanish Girl? A white girl who don’t speaketa no english. LOL.
@ Britt – Some of these girls ain’t driving a Bentley, they’re driving a Kia Spectra.
@ Cuzzo – First… thanks for blowing up my spot on my own blog, respect. Second… i’m not saying that that’s the only way she would become a ho. There are also other situations that can happen. You know some women are nymphos.
Sidenote, I really appreciate all the love peoples. Thanks a lot. Real talk.
@ Tunde – CHuRCH. Are you still fucking any of those dudes now???
If a woman thinks that the best she has to offer to a man is her body, then she is stuck in a state of mind that women are possessions. What about your time, energy, talents, skills, money,etc???
All those attributes make up a person, and IMO, are more valuable than an act of physical intercourse.
The real problem lies in that lets say girl had sex with 2 dudes a year for the whole of college, she had a body going into college and got one on spring break somewhere, there are dudes (alot of dudes at that) who will argue that she is a hoe and she made one bad decision and only has 10 bodies
@ Dr J – Visiting schools, hahahaha! Gotta luv it!
@ Tunde – THAT post is why u r “The Good Bruhz” and you Coleman people say! I once told this chick a # because she wouldn’t stop buggin me (mind u i said A # not THE #) Shorty was mortified.. just kept sayin
“thats 1 for every1 on my line” HAHAHAHA!
THIS is why I told her “You wish you didn’t ask right? Told her I was jokin and all was cool…
**cues the NBC “The More you know” Music***
@ Dr. J – even worse!!! Who wants a Kia with 100k miles, lol?
I wouldn’t call her a ho, but I’m not into labels like that.
Her number is her number and her business. If she’s staying safe and doing it out of her own free will (not coerced or acting out because of past sexual abuse, etc.) then why the need to label her?
Her number matters to me. If I found out the chick was at 27 I’d go dip my junk in some listerine
Funky ass ho.
While she may not have a ho mentality….her actions signal otherwise. I'd say she could be cleaned up and made into someone's girlfriend eventually. Now, 27? That's an inordinately high number…..even for a ho. I know a girl who's # is around 50 and one who said she stopped counting once she got to 30. There's always someone worse, but what's 3 compared to 30 when the girl who only spet with 3 people is burning (and not for jesus)?
this post was a little dry.
Dr. J great post. Unfortunately I have to say she is. And I am a respectable brotha and I haven't been swinging for the fences in different ball parks but when I am home, call me Barry Bonds jk lol but not really. With that being said it really comes down to choices for me. It seems some sista's be letting any body up in them at any time. This really questions me about thier judgement. And yes it's a double standard and I know women hate it but I mean that's the perception life created. My last relationship was with someone who was very permiscuous and i wasn't so the chemistry actually was crazy. She broke up with me and I was more afriad about her ways would lead her to do something drastic, caring more about her and it end up something happen due to her ways. Sad.
But if this woman also is teaching bible study the next day after each episode then I have an issue with that. Dr. J can that be brought up for discussion.
i'm with the people that wouldn't call toya a ho. now, i would only call someone a ho if their reasons and situations were ho-like… know what i mean? if she just feels that liberal, free and self confident to be sleepin with people like that then that's her biz. BUT 27 is high. and the thing that makes it too high for me, as some people have hinted, is the consistent trend. even if she had like a year, JUST ONE BAD YEAR where she slept with some 12 dudes that would send a different message than her year after year sleepin with 6+ dudes. the pattern speaks volumes.
I don't consider Toya a ho. I do think she needs to get some better radar because some of her reasons were a tad off.
27 guys by 25 (and not being a ho) to me looks more like this:
2 in Highschool: One was the first BF, the other was the guy she liked all summer just before they separated for college. 17/18 y/o's are prone to this kind of sex.
4 Freshman year: 1 guy who had great game (remember, she's a FRESHMAN), 1 slick ass KAY male. 2 who she really liked, tried to get to know, but slept with in the process and they kinda ended up wanting to sleep with everyone she knew – including her roomates.
2 Sophomore year, and 3 more Junior year: Reasonable to expect a relationship to run 4 to 6 months in College, hell some people can't get that long post college. Plus there is the first encounter with an athlete factor in there.
So we are at 11 already.
Senior year: 1 guy she liked since being a Freshman, who wouldn't give her the time of day but later who pans out to be a nothing. 1 guy whose been the supportive friend, after a long night of drinking. 2 Guys who were just fine as hell or super talented, (hey, 21/22 this happens)…
Graduation! Def need to drink and get laid, if this isn't a throwback off the list above, add another.
We are at 16…
Just to pan it out, the next 3 or 4 years carry about 3 guys apiece. In your I am single and trying to figure me out 20's three men a year is entirely possible. Bam, you have it: 27.
Even if you lower that number to 25 or 22, men will still typically have an issue with it. Personally, I NEVER tell my number. I don't even do the "bigger than 5 lower than 10" shit. It's not that I am not embarrassed by it, I just don't feel it is fair judgement grounds. What matters is how I feel about you and if I am STD free.
point. blank. fact.
Bam/Amber
I went to a Big 10, school. About 40 something thousand. Let me break it down,
Went in a virgin. (yes, I was a virgin in college) First year had sex with 1 person. He told me I needed some more experience…would gf me.
Over the summer, I slept with 4 guys. Fall semester rolls around, go back to first guy I slept with (doesn't count, right?)
Celibate for a minute, then I go to the Kappa Beach Party at 21…I DON"T SLEEP with anyone, still at 5. Summer comes…I have "fun" am up to 8.
I become celibate agin, go back to my first. Doesn't work out. This guy who had been a "friend" becomes an FWB. he moves. It's on year 4, I'm up to 9.
A friend that I had chemistry with for a longtime, who I liked, we end up sleeping together throughout my last two years. So I graduate, I'm up to 10.
It doesn't matter how you break it down…a woman will always be judged. The guys I slept with early on, never believed they were #3, or 4 or 5.
My actions don't display "hoedom". I knew people who had way more numbers than I did. I think this issue is looked at more in "black" community, as an "issue". Especially with men, who WANT to believe the girl they are sleeping with is a Saint.
The number isn't important, it's what you are doing now that's important
h o e
does not necesarily make her a whore.someone with a lousy sense of judgement yes.but not a ho.