****** Admin Note ******
Another skribit topic … just for you … cause we love ya’ll … n sh*t.
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In college we used to have these forums all the time. They were pretty prominent across all colleges because it’s a question that undoubtedly gets asked when college is so focused on partying and sex, oh and education too (innocent smile). Well, me and Streetz about to go Marty Jannnety and Shawn Michaels on the topic and drop some knowledge on the subject.
Streetz: See, I beg to differ. You can definitely love God and love sex. Similar to oil and water, the two shouldn’t be loved at the same time. You shouldn’t be in church thinking about the shorty you gonna break off after Mass as I have before and tried not to but the devil be a recurring memory. Don’t judge me! Same way as you said thinking about God while you suicide dive into the coochie may prove bad for business. Although some women have shown their versatility by shouting out God, Jesus, Mary, and all 12 apostles (Judas too!) while we do the do. I applaud their multitasking ability.
Streetz: Church. Tabernacle. Synagogue. Mosque! What’s crazy to me is how we denote sex as “being bad”. I’m like a Catholic nightmare in the sense that I don’t always agree with my church’s views on certain issues, but I rep the 60 minute service clique to the death! I’m not a paragon of scripture, but I don’t remember anywhere saying premarital sex is wrong, that sex in general is wrong. I know that if someone has a wifey and you covet her, that’s wrong “Commandment #2″ and Adultery is also a no-no. So why did the church deem sex as horrible? Things to make you go “google”.
So what do you think SBM community? Can you love God and Sex? Do they intersect or are they mutually exclusive. Are Streetz and Dr. J heathens and “need more gospel”? Holla back,
Yes, you can love God and sex. The church has created this stigma against sex. But I believe God invented sex and it's a good thing. Now abusing sex…not so good. There's so many emotions that come along with the act. I agree with Streetz: "Two wrongs don’t make a right, but at the same time I know devout christians who have sex, and I know prude’s who break commandments on rotation. Faith and love of our Creator is unconditional on both ends" The church spends a lot of time hailing sex as the cardinal sin of all sins, when there's plenty of injustice and social crimes going around if people are so eager to point fingers about things.
I've asked this same question many times about folks who claim to be holy holy yet consistently take the D up through Saturday night. Somebody tried to explain to me that no sin is greater than another…but I wasn't buyin' it. Catholic or not, there's a lot of hypocritical folks out there. That's part of what turns me off about church in general…but that's a topic for another day. Looks like today's discussion is gonna be a good one. You guys wrote about 2 words that people lovveeeee to talk about.lol
@Slim – “I’ve asked this same question many times about folks who claim to be holy holy yet consistently take the D up through Saturday night…That’s part of what turns me off about church in general”
I’m definitely not trying to convince you that you should go to church, however, church and God are not about other people. It's really about your personal relationship with God. It shouldn’t matter what other people are doing because it’s none of your business and it’s about what you are doing. I know whenever I attend church, I feel refreshed for the week, and many times the Lord speaks to me through the pastor’s sermon. Also, sometimes I am just so grateful that I want to go to church and just praise God for everything He/She has done for me because I could not be where I am without Him/Her. The other thing to note is that you should not focus on the messenger, but the message. I know the Lord has spoken to me through unsuspecting messengers, once it was someone who I didn’t even like, but they said something that resonated with what I was going through so much that I knew it had to be God b/c I know the person did not know anything about me and I normally wouldn’t engage a person who I don’t even like.
I know tons of people who go to church every Sunday and I may not agree with certain things they do in their lives, but I may do things that other people may not agree with as well, so I can’t judge. In the end, we are ALL sinners. The only time I take issue with people is when they try to act “holier than thou” just b/c they go to church every Sunday b/c that doesn’t make anyone a better Christian or a better person. It’s about your personal relationship with Christ.
Lastly, the issue is really whether you value sex over God. With anything in the world, the problem is not the thing/act in itself, but the value we as human beings place over these things. Obviously, people are not going to stop having sex, but I think people really should think about what takes priority in our lives and the priority that God takes, as it pertains to being a Christian and loving God.
@ Slim – That's the main critique with not only the 'church' but our BLACK CHURCHES nowadays. The line is too blurred between what you say on Sunday, and what you do during the rest of the week. At this point, no one is arguing about the joys of sex, at least it should be joyful — the problem I see is how people are manipulating the word (BIBLE) and the 'guilt' that follows when two consenting adults engage in the act, whether that's a relationship context or a hit and run.
@ Remi – I couldn't agree with you more. Not only is sex a matter of perspective but the place it serves in one's life. If the shoe fits for one, might not be for us all. If your always coming home with people from the club, (as in every wkend, including happy hours) then that's you, but some of us are a bit more discrete.
Your relationship with God is just that, its personal, just you and the almighty. The problem comes (as in most things) when people get nosy and TELL YOU how you SHOULD BE with God, (imma do me) B/C frankly the God I serve isn't so 'rigid' that sex with the 'right purposes (is that an oxymoron) is 'against, his will?' Only when you think its one thing, and she thinks its another is it 'wrong?'
Thoughts…
I think there is nothing comparable to having sex with a person that you can see the God in (sic: Common)
I think the real issue is when we allow our pursuit of sex to get in the way of being better people (Christians, Muslims, whatever). There is no reason that you can go on the prowl on a Saturday night for the vag stache but cant get up and go to church
@Remi
"The only time I take issue with people is when they try to act “holier than thou” just b/c they go to church every Sunday b/c that doesn’t make anyone a better Christian or a better person. It’s about your personal relationship with Christ."
My issue EXACTLY! I cosiign this statement. Mad ppl run around here preachin the gospel and are just as much of a sinner as the next man, so they need to sit down!
@Plwatcher
"Your relationship with God is just that, its personal, just you and the almighty. The problem comes (as in most things) when people get nosy and TELL YOU how you SHOULD BE with God, (imma do me)"
This Slim, is what i think your main focus should be. We all have different relationships with our parents (for those who have siblings) so how can we all not have a different relationship with our Father?
@Peyso
"There is no reason that you can go on the prowl on a Saturday night for the vag stache but cant get up and go to church"
100% Cosign. Thats why I make it a hait of making it to church and listening to the word and making that connection. We make time for everything else. I want to make time for God in good times AND bad. Just to show respect to Him and to make that spiritual connection
Church and God are not one in the same…church should act as a foundation to find your spirtuality. It's just a building. In my opinion, you can pray and have a relationship with God anywhere. So if you choose not to get up on Sunday morning to go to church, because you went out, there's nothing wrong with that, just as it's nothing wrong with the person who was dropping it like it was hot, and getting the "holy ghost" 5 hours later.
Sex. God created sex, so therefore it's good, lol. Seriously, I think people pick and choose what "sins" they believe are bad, good, worse. We're in the New Testament now, right, not the Old One…
You most certainly can love God and Sex…God created sex to be wonderful thing between a man and a woman. I agree with @DCDIVA.. church and God are not the same. The raw adreline and energy you feel while you are having sex is all due to God…
Yes, you can love them both because they're two separate entities. But like food on a paper plate they're going to mix at some point. Why? Well besides the fact that women yell it more than Creflo Dollar; sex, in all of its various forms, is mentioned throughout many Good Books. So making the choice to have premarital sex, you're answering to whichever God you praise.
However, I do agree with my Three Ways brethren Slim. There's something off about those devout Christians who are everyone's cut buddy and then show up to Church on Sunday to be "cleansed". Just like there's a difference between lying about what color socks you have on and whether the kid is his baby, there's a big difference btw sex with your significant other and being the starting line up's MVP.
Turns me off from Church – the organization not the actual building or my relationship with God.
I was once at a sermon where the pastor said (in a church, on a Sunday) that having an Orgasm is the closest you can come to being with God. Especially when you are with the one you are commited to. <– true story.
So I try to be as close to God as possible. That is all Im sayin'
LOL @ Intellectual…Well damn, I haven't had the O yet, so I guess I'm not close to him :/ I'm gonna work on that LOL
I believe you can absolutely love God and Sex..and yes at the same time. I'm no virgin and have absolutelty sinned quite a few times…but why hasn't anyone brought up the topic of celibacy. I've recently started my own spiritual walk and yes I'm celibate and plan to continue my celibacy until I'm married. Evaluating my life, my relationships, and sexual encounters… I can see now why "the word" says sex should be reserved for man and wife. As a woman, I do feel that each time you have sex with a man–in some sort of way their spirit enters yours. For me…I want something deeper than feeling a few moments of pleasure…I want to experience sex for what I feel
G-d intended it for…just between me and the future hubby…Again, these are all just my beliefs…I'm never one to judge and I'm not one to consider myself "better than" anyone else.
@ Intellectual; now that's one sermon I can put into action, LOL
Can you love God and sex? Yes. Can you love God and have sex out of wedlock? You can, but you have to realize what you are doing is sin regardless of how you try to rationalize it. This cannot be argued.
Sometimes we confuse our general societal rules for what is acceptable with God's will. We as a society may say it's nothing wrong with two consenting adults having sex before marriage, but that's our guidelines, not God's.
I'm not trying to hold myself up as some moral exemplar by any means, because I'm definitely falling short. But God's word is what it is.
@Hugh Jazz: I agree 100%
I love God, Jesus, sex and shoes. Not at the same time however, as I would feel a wee guilty about it tho. But I definitely feel there is a place for all those things in my life.
And I agree with @Intellectual Hedonist…lol.
@Hugh Jazz,
Can you find me the bible scripture which says sex without wedlock is a sin?
Streetztalk…if you look in the bible where it talks about fornication and/or sexual immorality you'll find the answer to your question. ie 1 Corinthian 6:9
but to answer your question…of course you can love God and sex as long as you're relationship with HIM isn't lacking because sex or something else is taking up more time in your life then HE is.
Streetz: "Can you find me the bible scripture which says sex without wedlock is a sin?"
Sure. Here are a few, there are several more.
Mark 7:20-21 – And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Romans 1:28-29 – And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
1 Corinthians 6:18 – Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
1 Corinthians 7:2 – Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.
1 Corinthians 10:8 – Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.
2 Corinthians 12:21 – And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.
Ephesians 5:3 – But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
1 Thessalonians 4:3 – For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:
Jude 1:7 – Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Revelations 21:8 – But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.
@Hugh Jazz
Dude….did you just know those off the top of your head?
@streetztalk
1 Corinthians 7:2 (NIV)
2 But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.
Hebrews 13:4 (NIV)
4 Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.
"Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body." (1 Corinthians 6:18-20)
"I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him." (2 Corinthians 11:2)
"Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion [literally, "be inflamed (with anger, grief, lust)" - see Strong's Greek Dictionary]." (1 Corinthians 7:8-9)
"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman [or, "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman," according to the NIV footnote]. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband." (1 Corinthians 7:1-2, KJV)
Mark 7:20-21 “He [Jesus] went on: 'Whatever comes out of a man is what makes him unclean.' For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery…”
I Thessalonians 4:3-5 “It is God's will that you should be sanctified; that you should avoid sexual immorality. That each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen who do not know God…”
I also found this: http://vision-ministries.org/PDF/premarital_sex.p…
Those are some that I found, but of course they are all open to interpretation. I happen to think that people interpret the Bible in whatever way suits them best and it's not just with sex.
Slim: "Dude….did you just know those off the top of your head?"
I knew a few of the scriptures, not necessarily where they were located, so I did a quick search. I knew there were several out there, and actually I didn't include 1 Corinthians 7, which is probably the best reference on the matter.
Slim: "Catholic or not, there’s a lot of hypocritical folks out there. That’s part of what turns me off about church in general"
The same thing made me look at religion with a skeptical eye too, but someone gave me some wise advice: don't confuse the -ism with the -ist. Or in other words, don't knock the philosophy or theology because the adherents can't follow it to the letter. If that's the case there is no religion/philosophy/anything else that you'll find credible.
This entire thread changed when you put the scriptures up there…. FML.
One thing bothered me earlier, when someone said it's only a problem when you love sex more than God… es no bueno. If you like God just as much as you like sex. You are going to hell with gasoline drawers on.
Also, you ever been with a girl who is like, "You can stay over on Saturday, but you have to go to church with me on Sunday."
ARE YOU USING SEX TO EVANGELIZE?! Heavens no….
@ Hugh and ACJ
I feel you on the plethora of posts. I still feel that with all choices, you live with them and still can have an affinity for Jesus. The same people who tout those scriptures can still commit offense against them. If you ever had illegal cable, you stole. You download music? you steal. You choose not to forgive? sin.
I guess I [personally will live the best life possible and hope my good deeds outweigh my bad and I "avoid the fiery pits of hades" for any transgressions in my life.
This is actually a comment from a friend who hit me up via gChat:
"You can DEFINITELY love God and love sex… the first thing God said to Adam and Eve was go forth and multiply.. he made us specifically with that intention
however, it is God's will for us to be betrothed to one man and one woman, so in that regard sex is supposed to be beautiful
However we are cautioned against loving sex in excess- "it is better to marry than to burn"
some bibles say "burn with passion"
but the point is sex is God's gift to us, but he doesn't intend that we abuse that gift
I can say more, but I don't want to get too deep"
PS – "…but I don't want to get too deep." PAUSE.
"I guess I [personally will live the best life possible and hope my good deeds outweigh my bad"
Exactly.
@Streetz, you can add to your list gossip, cursing, judging, drinking in excess and so on. What bothers me is people focus so much on SEX (ie, my friend said she is not having sex anymore, but continues to engage in other stuff) but not other things that could be considered inmoral or sins, like the gossiping, judging, etc.
So … I've written about going to church and I was also the leader of the Anti-Celibacy club. I have been "active" for a minute, and still manage to go to church at least once a month (yeah … I'll go with that), but … I gotta say that premarital sex is a sin.
I mean … I have done it … but I'm not gonna lie to myself and say that its not a sin. I don't judge anyone, and I look forward to the next time I get it in … and yes you can love God and sex … but its still a sin.
That's all … back to the salt mines for me!
@ everyone – I know what the good book says, but I am not convinced its a sin. Maybe, is it BEST, or what God intended sure. But I know plenty of people who waited till their marriage day and still had their relationship end over some -ish, so damned if you do, damned if you don't. Live life and remember, 'Karmas a bitch.'
Hugh, I think I love you…wanna have sex?
No, seriously Sex is not the sin. God made us to be sexual beings. We are clearly here to procreate. It is the way in which we as humans abuse the privilege. Same with alcohol and a few other things.
If you love God, you should strive your hardest to try to adhere to his rules because they are put here for us with love. God does not want to see us go through unnecessary hurt and pain, which often come when we have harmful sex practices.
knappi: "Hugh, I think I love you…wanna have sex?"
Don't tempt me.
We fall down, but we get up, we fall down, but we get up…
I've never had sex before, so I can't answer the main question, however, some of the things that I was taught as a young adult in the church kinda scared me into not having sex. I remember the pastor's wife saying, "Your body is a temple and when you have sex with someone that you're not married to you are allowing them to invade your temple." For some reason that really scared me and I told myself that I would never let someone invade my temple. In some ways I felt that if I had sex before marriage that I would be a disappointment to God.
God gave us control over our bodies and it is important to be responsible with them. We will all be accountable for our actions, so it's important to think about what we're doing before we do it.
Wow I remember this topic in school streetz. I walked away feeling heavy at heart. I think the real question is do we love God enough to be obdient. Now I am Muslim and I can say for a fact that in our good book it is quite explict about being chaste. Honestly, one can love God and sex as long as they are not putting them on equal footing. I mean He did say be fruitful and multiply. How else are we supposed to do that without sex? A sin is a sin no matter how you slice it. There is no justification for premarital sex. Just suck it up an admit your weak. The key is accepting that making your intentions to do better even if those intention are to settle down and get a wife.
Just to comment on random statements…..
Yes church is necessary… So, no you shouldn't bypass it. The bible says where 2 or more are gathered there shall He be. You must be in the presence of others to worship. That is the purpose of church. You can't worship with your pillow. So if you find another person to worship with in your home then cool. If not. Get up!
Second, yes. You can love God and sex but if you idolize sex and place it before God then it is a sin and a commandment you are breaking.
Finally, if the bible denotes fornication as a sin and by one definition fornication means to have sex out of the confines of marriage then yes all people having sex are sinning…including myself. I can't validate anyone's path to God but my own. What I attempt to do is always make sure that whomever I have sex with is someone I consider special (i.e. my seclusive boyfriend). One night stands, random booty calls, etc, defile and misuse my body and I consider that reckless. If I am not in a relationship then I abstain. I made this decision because technically during biblical times there were no written decrees stating that a couple were married just the verbal and visual account of their relationship. So, if I and another person have agreed to be monogamous than we have done the same.
Just my 2cents.
Having sex is not a sin. Having sex outside of marriage, is. Problem is is that sex is very spiritual. People try to fake, like it's just a physical act, but it's not. Wonder why shorty won't stop calling only after a week and ya'll slept together? Wonder why dude is acting all crazed about your male friends after he got it? It's because like it or not, you now have a bond with that other person. I can see how a lot of women and men have so many emotional scars and hangups with folks they've dated.
But here's the thing, people don't like to be called out on what they're doing wrong. In 1 John, the Bible States, "He that sayeth I know Him and keepeth not His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him." So to answer the question, NOOO you can't fornicate and claim that you love God simultaneously, because if you really love God, then you would be obedient. Just like if you love your spouse, you won't cheat on them. If you love your kids you won't be a deadbeat. If you love your ride, you won't intentionally rear-end someone else. Same principle.
And for all the folks who get mad at that and say, "what I do is my business – don't judge me cause you're not perfect" I would say don't shoot the messenger. The only perfect person to walk this earth was Jesus. And if we were all perfect, and had everything figured out, we wouldn't need God. Now if you see your brother or sister is out of line doing something that's wrong, whether its fornicating or stealing etc, you should go to that person in LOVE not in condemnation.
Imagine if folks just had sex within marriage?
1. No more worrying about adultery and cheating spouses.
2. No more Maury paternity tests. (Jaykweem – you are NOT the father)
3. No more awkward conversations ("so did you give me this STD?)
I am strong propnent of folks waiting to get married to have sex. I've never met a person whose regreted it. While i've met scores who were sorry they didn't.
Just my 15 cents
Um, actually the Bible speaks against fornication (premarital sex) several times. In Acts 15:20 Paul writes that we should guard the morality of sex and marriage by abstaining from fornication – "But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood." Ephesians 5:3 states that fornication is a filthy practice – "But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people." I Corinthians 7:2 tells us it is better to get married than to engage in premarital sex – "But because sexual sin is a danger, each man should have his own wife, and each woman should have her own husband."
If you study the history of sex (formal research or the Discovery Channel) in America, you'll note that sex was primarily for reproduction. In other words, you have sex to make babies, period. However cultural and societal shifts have exalted sex as an act of pleasure. Our morals and values have broadened to include those things which are potentially corrupt and detrimental – thus the reason for Christ's death, grace, and mercy
@ TheWire, sex was linked to morality in Western Cultures but in many Eastern cultures sex and religion were totally separate. The whole study of Tantra and things like the Kama Sutra point to other cultures where sex was celebrated and a lot more free flowing. The chastity of the women had more to do with keeping the wealth of the family within the bloodline. In fact, one of the main reasons the wealth of a family tended to pass to the 1st born son was because a woman was to remain chaste and have sex only with her husband until she married and bore a male child and then she was often free to express herself sexually.
Regarding the initial topic, a more clear question could be "Can you be a good Christian, Jew, Muslim, etc and still have sex out of wedlock?" For me, God is not confined to religion and once I freed myself from this distorted view of God and Jesus I found peace with sex. What's funny is that I still don't have random sex because for me it is a spiritual bonding and I don't bond with every guy who shows me a good time. Much like SexyKitty, I reserve my Goodies for the man who is ready to be in a committed relationship with me. It doesn't have to be marriage by legal contracted, but by our commitment to each other.
What Hugh & SBM said. We can try to rationalize it all we want, just the same way we claim that certain lies are "necessary," and that God undoubtedly understands…but none of that changes the fact that it's still sinful. And not the sex itself, but sex outside of marriage. I'm glad Hugh broke out the verses, because some people (looking at you Streetz) are, or have at one time been, convinced that nowhere in the bible is fornication expressly forbidden.
"Can you love sex and God?"
"1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 4 Traitors, heady, high-minded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away." (2Ti 3:1-5)
"No man can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." (Mat 6:24) + "Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him." (1Jo 2:15)
We as sinners generally see things differently than does our Maker. As far as we're concerned, the fact that we indulge in certain sinful activities does not negate the fact that we hold Him in high esteem. As far as He's concerned, though, our refusal to shun things that we know go against His word makes us lukewarm at best, and Revelations was quite clear on how He views lukewarmness. In other words, we're all screwed (no pun intended). God is well aware that we will all fall short of righteousness, but He forgives us when we are truly repentant of our sins and making an effort to eradicate them from our lives. Not so much when we rationalize, keep going back and forth, etc, ect. As far as He is concerned, it's an either or thing. We either love the world and all the sinful indulgence it affords us, or we love Him.