It’s generally a well known fact that girls often are highly attracted to and often flock to those “icky” guys … you know, your thugs, a**holes, wife beaters and such. What’s even worst is that nice guys really are finishing last. A**holes are in high demand, while nice guys fight over the few girls looking for them.
I’ll admit that this is something that plagues mainly young girls (21 & under) as opposed to the sophisticated women that I adore (25 & up). But you can often times catch your local 40 year olds still running around looking for a “roughneck”.
Back in college, I was talking to one of my fictitious female friends about this. Now, this girl was a computer science major, smart, one of the few (if not only) cute black women who can code, and had nothing but potential n sh*.
She proceeded to tell me when it came to choosing a guy, they had to pass the “Alley Test”. Intrigued, I asked her to elaborate. She claimed for any guy to be deemed datable need to be able to walk down an alley with her at 3am and make her feel safe.
The tough part … the confusing part … the part that envoked rage was that “90% of the guys at our school didn’t cut it … they too smart n sh*”
I sat there I just breathed. I wonder if I had thrown a chair through her window as a result of being offended … would she have thought differently.
WTF. Why is it a smart brother can’t fight? I’m smart, and I used to fight all the time. I’m 6 foot, over 200 lbs, and have been known to have a short fuse. In addition, I got 2 degrees, do software development, and am a self-proclaimed “smart guy” .
TRUST … if we’re walking down an alley, you can grab onto to my shoulder and not be scared.
But really … what is more important. That I can fight when need be, or that my life goals, career, and job can provide for me and you. How many times are we going to be walking through an alley at 3am? You need to be thinking how many times we’re gonna go out and you don’t want the credit card to not come back declined?
I mean, this was one person, but I have even read articles talking about the same thing.
Apparently a lot of Black Women rather have a man with some heat over a law degree. So sad.
Is the alley test valid now? Is that what its important? Do we as men need to let it be known we’re ready to get the swinging instead of our ability to provide and love?
Please … let me know
- SBM aka Not only will I hit you, but I’ll hack into your back account the day after
It's not that women would rather have a man packing heat over a man with a law degree. Men always seem to think things are either/or and it's not. We want both!! We want a man who makes us feel safe and protected, and that includes actual physical protection from any potential harm. and protection by being able to provide for us and our family. I value intellect, and the ability to provide for us, and I take pride in a man who can do those things. But I also take pride in the man who will protect me, take up for me, have my back, check any fool who disrespects me, and go hard at any ninjas who steps out of line. You don't have to past the 3am alley test, but you shouldn't be Terrance Howard in the movie "Crash" either.
P.S. I've never dated a thug… only history nerds and business geeks. And I felt safe around them.
What did u really expect Terrance Howard to do in Crash? They woulda killed that man. Someone should told Thandie's arse to stfu. She coulda got both them killed smh
This is a wise brother right here…lol
He could have said something. I know the "man" has emasculated you brothas, but to not say anything when some cop feels between his wife's legs was a horrible way to go. And then act like he couldn't understand why she was so upset? SMH @thevestigesofslavey….
I understand the history and fear of the police in black men, but you have to understand the history and fear of black women being violated by white men….
I understand you want both, we all want it all. I want a girl who has stripper like experience, is into girls and threesomes, but is also a virgin. Reality is … I gotta lean more one way than the other.
So … since we all have to make sacrifices … I too often see that clean cut lawyer getting pushed aside.
lol…side note…technically you could have "stripper like experience, is into girls and threesomes, but is also a virgin"…A virgin could've taken a strip-aerobics class or been a professional stripper at one point as well as have a very open mind and/or bi-curios/lesbian tendencies/desires…as long as she was never penetrated she'd be a virgin right? lol… The only thing that really works against your dreamgirl is age…idk how old you are but virgins tend to die out by frsshman yr college, if not earlier.
I mean … yes … technically I could have all of that, and women could technically have a gun touting Doctor from the hood, but who is smart enough not to get into fights. Its all possible.
Problem is reality (I know … its a b*). Realistically, if she is a virgin, she probably doesn't know she is into girls (or might be so into them she's more than just "curious) and she obviously has no sexual experience (I think strippers would be master's of the smash … hence the reference). So … I know the chance of it all isn't 0 … but it's like .009
I can't speak for WOMEN but I can speak for me… I've been searching for that nerd. *sigh* I feel like everywhere I look are thugs and thug wannabes. I want a man who can hold intelligent conversation, has a good credit score and will expose me new subjects of life. I don't wanna worry about him hanging w/ the wrong people or being caught up in bad situations. That's just not my cup of tea. I don't put my potentials through an alley test… rather a spelling test. If we are texting/emailing and he has a problem w/ spelling… then WE have a problem. I don't expect you to be spelling bee champ of the world… but I don't expect you to spell RETIRED — RITAYERED; please know I will ask you to discard my number. I feel like smart guys don't check for me… let's visit that issue.
Btw, you mentioned the 21&under crowd as well as the 25&up… what do you feel those of us who are 22-24 are checking for?
co-sign on text msg spelling!! SBM, y'all really need to write up a post about spelling while texting. Repeated bad spelling is a MAJOR problem, in that it hints at other larger problems that may come up. for example, writing 'their' when you mean 'they're', or 'your' when you mean 'you're' is not cute. at all.
that's because there is no grammar check. the words are spelled correctly!
Spelling while texting actually has never really come up for me. It's a sub-par vocabulary while talking that always kills me.
I'm sorry, but if your grown, you should know what "implication" means.
oooooo… true to that too! I think I can make it through the grammar but the blatant bad spelling or using the wrong vocabulary words b/c someone got you a word of the day calendar absolutely kills. Our conversation just went from mildly entertaining to WTF in 10 secs flat.
It's hard to change instinctual behavior. Women naturally want protectors as mates. The same way we're hardwired to like women with a lot of T&A and a small waist. Doesn't mean we'll choose a moron Smooth magazine girl over a smart, funny, less endowed woman, but we're programmed to like what we like. It is what it is.
"It’s hard to change instinctual behavior. Women naturally want protectors as mates"
-this is true. if a woman didn't feel protected around me then thats on her. i believe i could hold my own in any alley or any other environment that might pose a threat. what i don't get is the correlation between being smart and not being able to be a protector. the logic itself is flawed. i really don't think many women feel this way. maybe a small minority, at least i hope so.
I dont think the logic is flawed. I think that people who are smart and can be a protector are in the minority. Many times men are one and the other and based on those experiences, it makes sense that women think that they dont exist. Women (who feel this way) are wrong though
I can't knock any women for wanting to be protected. T&A for me will help ensure satisfying beats …
But for me to assume that a girl with a small booty can't smash is wrong. And that's why I have a problem with this belief that smart guys can't wreck.
co-sign.
Well put. Great way to work effing into a comment.
Thank you … people don't realize how hard it is to allude to something like effing and make it flow and not sound raunchy.
nice analogy. lol
Dude's opinion: SBM, I think you took it the wrong way. I dont think she was saying that smart dudes are unable to protect women. She's saying that smart dudes are less likely to be able to do so.
If a women feels protected, she also feels that if sh*t hit the fan, her man would be able to protect them then too.
I think her saying they are less likely ain't a whole lot better. And outside of just this one person, there are others who just say:
Smart = Punk
This is dumb. Smart women want a dude who is smart enough to not have her out in a damned alley at 3! Smart women women want a dude who is smart enough to read a situation and know when it's time to leave. Smart women want a dude who cherishes her enough not to have her down at Ray-Ray's Juke Joint, Waffle House, and Barber Shop at the corner of Ghetto Lane and Robafool Blvd.
Ms. Smart summed it up perfectly and lmao@ Ghetto Lane & Robafool Blvd
Cosign. I think its sexier and better for the "smart dude" to have the ability to talk his way out of a situation. Anybody can throw a punch..
How about this, you're w/ your man at a store. Another man comes up to you and publicly threatens you. What does a smart woman want from her man? (This is a true story too)
Good question. I wouldn't be at a store where someone comes up to me to threaten me. We don't go to places that attract people with so little to lose that they are rolling up to me all willy-nilly. Plus, my dude is into all sorts of aggressive martial arts.
Peyso, if diplomacy doesn't work with the obnoxious guy…I will call the store manager or something. I have a strong, intelligent man but I don't really like the thought of risking his life. I know he would have my back but I would try to solve the situation (especially if my man is not near me when the obnoxious guy steps in). If my guy is right next to me, I think he would try to talk to the obnoxious guy first…
You asked what a smart woman wants from her man…if the situation arose I hope my man would think on his feet and with his head. Sometimes you want your man to be able to work his way out of a situation without blood flying everywhere (that is sexy to me). I agree with Ms.Smart, I like a man who thinks faster than the guy that quickly throws a punch. My man can protect me alright but I love that he knows how to work his way out of a potentially dangerous situation (I am a lover of intelligent men)
Now, this speaks to my point. You still like the idea that he is ABLE to protect you. Its not always about actions, sometimes its about the "if this sh*t pops…"
@ Peyso: Protection goes beyond laying hands. I think that's what we're saying. Protection starts BEFORE you even choose the destination for the night. Protection starts when you get somewhere and you see dudes ready to pounce on your date. The smart man stands by her or makes the executive decision to leave–not run but just leave.
I'm smart…pretty damn smart. I'm also a hot head. I've mentioned the story a few times of me choking a man over railing for "disrespecting me". That was Sr. year of college and that was the last time I got into a fight. I know that with each year that goes by, the more my actions can potentially affect the rest of my life. I would hope that women would find that sexier than any brute-force behemoth who resorts to knocking people out every time something happens.
I think its more would you knock someone out and more could you knock someone out
See … the problem with your argument is that it's based in logic. And we know that 45% of the fairer sex are allergic to that.
#shots
That's just it Slim.
Men's punishment and repercussions are swift and immediate. We have to think about every action we take carefully because we don't have the luxury of a delayed reckoning like the fairer sex.
Like I said earlier, I want my man to be whole and hearty. The older we get as women, the more we appreciate a man that is considerate of how his actions will affect the rest of his life. Your logic is one that most mature women(no age range) will co sign.
A couple of recent events had me thinking about this also. I often hear one of the requirements for a woman is to have a man that makes her "feel safe." My initial reaction is WTF for? Sure, I understand that a tall brotha like myself (although when I mention weight, people underestimate me) is "security" in the sense of I wouldn't let anything happen to a woman who is with me. My problem is that sometimes the chicks who holla about being safe or the ones who have an incorrigible attitude and loud ass mouf. I saw the most prolonged and dramatic street fight on Friday and it let me know that it isn't cute or necessary, especially over the age of 25.
D.C. is a rough place, but my "smart azz" survived it for 32 years without having to get into too many confrontations. One of the reasons I've kept to myself is because in a lot of situations, you might have to kill someone nowadays. A simple fist fight could be survival of the fittest if you eff with the wrong one. So a woman can want to feel safe all she wants, but what does SHE do when a Glock is waving in my face? I mean, I'm good with a sidearm (thanks ARMY) and I'm pretty damned street smart, but what situations are we talking here?
Why would you be with a woman who has popoffatthemoufitis?? Why even bother taking her in public?
That's why I imposed the question. I've seen scenarios where the cool chick you are with seems fine at first but let the slightest misunderstanding or bump occur and all of a sudden you're between her and danger. Not saying it happens all the time but it does and many times when you least expect it. I've been embarrassed before and it wasn't cute and I was totally off guard.
Believe me when I tell you, no chick just jumps out of her skin without some prior warning signs. Some thing it's how she treats the wait-staff. But it's more than that. How does she act when she's frustrated? When something goes down at work, is it always someone else's fault. Pay attention early so you won't be caught out there as a co-conspirator in her public foolishness.
Where do people live? I never see a lawyer who is making money get pushed aside for a thug who isnt. Maybe NYC is weird
I live in the DC area and I will walk around and over a thug to get to a nerd. I've ALWAYS been this way. But I grew up in Detroit so I know that dudes who go hard are usually more trouble than they are worth. Give me a nerd, with long-term goals, and a global view any day.
So how many nerds have you met in my city, eh?
All of my men, save one who slipped through the cracks when I was in school, are nerds. How? I don't go to places where non-nerds gather. The one who slipped through the cracks was a student at my university. And even he gained some 'polish' by the time he graduates.
Me personally? I'm a nerd, sci-fi chick and everything (love you Harry Potter, lol
) Anyway I want a man who'd be able to sustain himself…and our family. I'm a forward motion person so he MUST be one too, does that demand a college degree? Not always, but do I think his college and advanced degree(s) will nicely complement mine? Yessir! However I also want to know if some ish goes down at home hubby won't be tripping over me, knocking the kids out the way to get to the panic room first is all I'm sayin…
Hmmmm I've been over dating thugs since 10th grade after the dude I was dating got into this vicious fight after school and I knew I was not tryna be nobody's Keisha from Belly. Uh uh I'm not tryna be lying to the police caught up in nuthn!!!!! Lol I know that's extreme but since then I've really gone for the polo's and khaki's kind of dude…its been a long running joke with my gal friends too since they usually go for the thugs. As we've all entered the 25+ years its amusing to see their taste buds evolve. Yet and still I haven't met my Stephon UrKel just yet lol.
Don't worry … he's out there and he will be able to hand a fight if need be.
Only a silly woman (girl) would say that she respects physical strength over intelligence and the ability to provide.
A smart one desires both –and knows it exists.
I've never seriously dated a man who wasn't physically strong and made me feel safe; I've also never seriously dated a man who was not extremely intelligent, goal-oriented and didn't have plans to be a great provider for his family when the time comes.
Someone touched on a part of the problem earlier: females are growing up in communities without strong male figures who are examples of what a man and provider can and should be.
These women who speak of the "alley test" are a bit shallow in their thinking. I'm not worried about what happens in the alley at 3am because I don't care WHAT man I'm with– no one will have me in an alley at that hour! What they really want to say is they want a man to protect the household- which is what we ALL want. That doesn't mean he can't have brains and a great career that he accessed with education and/or dedication to his craft or interest.
Now, you fellas need to also check the women that you encounter and date. Just because a woman is smart and able to retain knowledge doesn't mean she is intelligent or introspective enough to understand that there are many facets to our personalities and many characteristics that can be found in a person.
Any computer sci major you encounter who can look you dead in the eye and tell you that the men matriculating at her institution of higher learning aren't fit for dating because they're "too smart" and can't pass the "alley test" is a woman you need to steer clear from.
And pity. Because she clearly missed some serious lessons during her upbringing.
I think we can all appreciate the balance that life brings and the desire to "have it all" or part of it.
But … there are too many girls out there (yes … a lot of them are hood rats) who really don't value a guy with goals and real ambitions.
@ Ms. Smart – I don't disagree there. What I'm saying is that in my experiences women like to feel protected whatever the circumstances are. Now hopefully a man can protect a woman using all of the things you mentioned. However, there are times when force or the threat of force is essential in feeling protected. Things don't always go as planned, I bet the man who was stabbed at 9pm on a subway thought he was safe. My question to you is this, who do u honestly feel safer with? A small, meek intelligent man who uses his brain to get out of a pickle or a big ole brolic dude who uses his brain to get out of a pickle?
Ms. Smart: ”This is dumb. Smart women want a dude who is smart enough to not have her out in a damned alley at 3! Smart women women want a dude who is smart enough to read a situation and know when it’s time to leave.”
This was pretty much what I was thinking as I was reading this. Why would you want a man that puts you in harm’s way? I don’t care if you are dating the love child of Laila Ali and Michael Clark Duncan and who had the same upbringing as Thugnificent, any sufficiently intelligent and street smart man knows your options are severely limited when you’re staring at the barrel of a gun.
I can understand why a woman would want a man who physically looks like he could protect her, in the same way a man looks for a woman with T&A. That’s a primal instinct, but any woman who would actually consider dating some wannabe thug (who might be useful on the rare occasion you are in a confrontation) over a guy who can actually provide for her (which needs to be done on a daily basis) is stuck on stupid.
Did we ever answer the question about what group the women 22-24 fall in?
I understand the alley test and the need to feel safe around your male counterpart. Does this mean that you have to sacrifice intelligence? No. Does this mean that you MUST have a big burly mandingo looking brother walking beside you? No. To me its his demeanor how he carries himself. If a 6'2" man is walking besides me slumping down in fear I will feel no more secure than if I were walking besides a 5'8" gentleman.
"If a 6′2″ man is walking besides me slumping down in fear I will feel no more secure than if I were walking besides a 5′8″ gentleman."
Mildly curious, but in the eyes of women, does height = protection? If a guy is 6'-3", but has a basketball player's build, does that make you "feel safe?" I can understand if he's tall and stocky, like The Rock, but does a guy over six feet really make you feel safe, even if he weighs about 180 pounds?
My mistake, because i am generally more attracted to the "Rock" body type as opposed to the "Kobe", when I think tall man, subconsciously, its automatically synonymous to the the bigger football type.
To most women, height doesn't equal protection. Based on the women I have interacted with of late, women will date a man built like the old Iron Mike (in height and build) than they will date a man built like Rip Hamilton, Reggie Miller, or Gary Payton.
Like someone alluded to before, most women subconsciously associate a man's build with his ability to physically protect her, and if that's a paramount prereq for you to holla, then most brothas built like a football player will always have the edge in giving women the perception of "feeling safe".
Honestly … that 22-24 ranges is transitioning … so its a coin toss.
I'm an aqua and we love our nerdy men.
I'm a little curious about the 22-24 range myself, am I just in a black, unidentifiable hole until I turn 25 next year?
I can't deny that I find "thug" attractive, and would probably lean more towards that way if I were looking for a purely physical situationship. However, I know that being kinda geeky myself, I probably wouldn't click long-term with the thug. Regardless of what I am initially attracted to, I need to be able to have a connection with that person. I've dated the thug, and anyone who thinks that a movie can't be good unless it stars some rapper/WWE wrestler or is centered around the hood is not for me. Anyone who gives me the side eye because I am reading for pleasure will not make it long with me, and don't get me started on having to define every third word I say for him because he can't follow a conversation.
Yeah, it'd be great to find the "educated thug", but I will happily take the nerd over the thug any day. Besides, it'd be difficult to drag the thug to go see movies like Harry Potter (I've tried and failed), and that's my ish.
Yeah … sorry to tell you but for those few years … you just don't matter.
Ya know, you really just don't seem that sorry.
Naw … if you could see me you would see I have the world's smallest violin playing the world's saddest song.
Trust me, I escaped that time not too long ago. It'll be aight.
And it's not so much that you don't matter, but you can't speak for the whole group. Your transition from my "I love thug n****s" phase to the "I need a man with a J.O.B." phase. So, your extremely volatile.
In a subtle way, Sane brought up an issue that some black women fall into (and most white people fall into). Why is it that men have to be placed into either the Carlton Banks bucket or the 50 cent bucket? Either you're Bryant Gumbel or Allen Iverson. If we were to deal in absolutes, one could fall into the Gumbel category, but that doesn't mean they're nerd enough to sit through Harry Potter.
I have my own law degree. What I DON'T have is a mean right hook. Thug please! I'm kidding, (kind of). But really, my dream man would be a thug turned Rhodes Scholar….
Thug turned rogue scholar … good luck
Since we are asking for whatever we want, I want gymnastic (for the flexibility) who is big breasted, with a lotta ass, can throw down in the kitchen, and single handily redefined the field of computer science.
*sigh* The ole Tupac with a PhD Syndrome…
IM Sorry.. a lot of you women are trying to #swindle us;
If we were at a club and a dude grabbe dyour butt, and we talked it out without me barkin on dude or showing SOME type of aggression, you'd SAY thanks, but in the back of your mind you'd be dissapointed that we didn't act irrationally.
The SMART dude would know how to make his point to satisfy his women and not get his ass beat!
As far as this 3am shyt… this could be an alley, or a NYC street, Adams Morgam, Near Magic City, or whatever. Violence knows no boundaries, so lets knock that off too!
Im far from a thug, but I know how to protect myself,how tocreate a sense of security, n sh*
Good shyt SBM
Preach, Brotha Streetz!
I have a friend who just went through this scenario and even blogged about it. Of course, the dude that didn't step in was called all sorts of "bytchazz nucca" and "weak" because he didn't flex. I even saw a few other random blogs about how men aren't protecting and providing anymore yet no one mentions the many cases where stranger decides to help and winds up with buckshots in his azz.
Well…it depends on the female. Your ability to settle the situation without allowing the "un-necessary" to occur shows some maturity…Its not geek like..its man like..no disappointement there.
Honestly, the whole character archetype of a "nerd" or a "thug" is somewhat archaic. As people, we are much more fluid than that. People have to ability to be both or more. It's called being well-rounded. I work in cancer research and can cite you organic chem reactions from memory but I am also able to bang some Gucci or tell you about yourself when necessary. I could less about a thug or a nerd, give me someone who has amassed knowledge and experiences that make him the colorful person he is. That is attractive to anyone. If not, then GROW UP! Life isnt a BET movie/video. LOL….great post.
The alley test, never heard it referred to as that. LOL. I'll choose a nerd over a bad boy anyday.
I keep trying to figure out how I want to convey what I want to say…someone told me to keep things simple…
Women do need security. Security for me means you're there, not in jail or the hospital. I want my man to be able to hold intelligent conversation with me all night and then go to the store WITH me when we get the midnight munchies. You being there is what makes me feel safe and secure, not you being a hot-headed, gun-toting, always in jail fool (not that the first 2 by themselves are always bad, its the combo that's a mess).
Nerds are awesome, especially when they love you enough to be in the figurative alley with you instead of sending you off by yourself. I'll always feel safe because you're actually there.
I don't think women who swear by this Alley Test really believe their own bullshit. If you are the kind of woman I have to plan my date with by incorporating a stroll in the alley that requires me to set up a choreographed fight with niggas in a ninja outfit and me pretending to kick their ass a la Black Dynamite in order to measure up to this caricature of manhood you have in mind….then maybe I shouldn't be dating your ass!!!
I dated a "thug" who I thought was nice when I was young. I don't think I even made it two weeks with him…thugs are scary as hell, lol. I was too scared to get in their car in fear of a retaliatory drive by efff thugs fo' real, lol. I used to joke when I was younger that I like a guy who could run fast so we could run away together if trouble came. So forget an alley test I need to know how fast you can do the 400 hundred. I'm was so not down with fighting, guns for protection, bustin caps, or anyone who drinks a 40 'cause that is for the birds.
My dude is smart, driven, about to start working on his Masters in business and I have NO worries that should shit pop off he won't handle it. He's a lovely balance of strong, grounded, tough, smart and money minded.