SBM will call you out your name!
Today we have a treat. One Chele from Black n’ Bougie has teamed with none other than myself to come together and provide two even sides to a question she wanted answered.
Make sure to head over to Black n’ Bougie and check out the other half of the comments.
- SBM
One Chele:
As a blogger, I’m often asked things that quite frankly throw me for a loop. Based on the comments from one of my posts, the question was asked – “When is it acceptable for a man to call a woman a bitch or a ho to her face?”
Hmm. Well, I have a series of standards on this one. First of all, let’s be honest… some women display some decidedly bitch-like, ho-like tendencies. Just last week, we expounded on the irritating trend of Hoedom as a hustle. All this being said, when you are looking someone in their face (and yes, I KNOW this is sexist) I believe there is NO time where it’s acceptable for a man to call a woman a bitch or a ho. Kinda like non-black people using the n-word (whole other topic), this one you have to leave in house.
And EVEN then, if you don’t have some sort of relationship where that’s an okay thing, you can NOT be calling folks bitches and hoes to their face. I’m sorry, you really can’t. Now, do we need to discuss the difference between calling someone bitchy or a bitch? Understanding that it’s still right there on the line of what can catch you a beatdown from said female? Now I have a few friends that jokingly call each other bitches. “Bitch you know you look good.” “Ya’ll bitches never on time.” “Queen Bitch is on her throne today.” And EVEN then, after one or two someone generally says, “Um, Ms. Lady – we’re not going to be too many more bitches tonight, okay?” And it’s shut down.
We don’t call each other hoes. No, not even if some hoe-shiggity is apparent. It’s just not done. But again, that’s just me and my friends. I’m curious to know how this dynamic plays out with other people.
I got into a discussion on Twitter about this and SBM from SingleBlackMale.org had a differing opinion.
And here is a little quiz on “What’s Acceptable?” http://www.mystudiyo.com/ch/a107551/go
SBM:
As my good friend One Chele mentioned … we differ in opinion.
Anyone who frequents SingleBlackMale.org knows we aren’t afraid to tell it like it is and say what really needs to be said. But please believe I am not some e-Thug who keeps his mouth quiet out in the “real world.” Please believe the SBM you get on the blog and twitter is the same strong minded, “always got an opinion about relationships”, chivalry murdering, weave hating individual that you hate love so much on these e-streets. I strive to give you the same experience whether your looking me in my eye or reading me on a monitor.
As a result … I will call a woman a hoe or a bitch … if the situation calls for it.
Please don’t get it wrong. My mom and dad raised me right. Even in a time when too few rappers can define the word misogyny, and b*tch and hoe are thrown around with reckless abandonment, I neither participate or condone calling any and every woman a b*tch or a hoe. Just because you are female doesn’t make you a b* or h*. Streetz detailed what makes some woman a b*, and I think we all know what a hoe is … so I won’t reiterate.
But … there are certain situations where I feel that I, as a man, can call a woman a bitch or hoe to her face. These are never done with complete strangers, and I usually know the person. And I don’t mean it as mean … but sometimes these harsh words give the “shock” value needed to rightly bring about change. Lets look at some of these situations.
– My female friend has just told me about the 5 different guys she has slept with this week. Apparently she needed to get something out her system (You’z a hoe).
– An acquaintance in the group is asking if it’s wrong that she slept with a guy raw dawg, in the back of a car, while his friend drove them back from the club (*true story*)within 6 hours of meeting him. (You’z a hoe).
– A woman is telling me about the 5 anonymous person train that just “came through her station.” (You’z a hoe).
– My date (on our first date) is talking about the 30 day marathon she did last year where she aimed to sleep with a different man everyday of the week, and then call back the best for a weekend repeat (You’z a super serious hoe).
– A woman in a group of friends that I am part of (don’t know her that well) is explaining how she threw her big mac back through the drive through window, hitting the attendant in the face, because they forgot the secret sauce (You’z acting like a bitch).
– You, a stranger, come into my face cursing and implicating that I cannot hold an erection or please a woman. All this because I wouldn’t buy you a drink (You’z a bitch)
So, as we can see there are some situations where a woman simply needs to be informed to the error of her ways. Just like any questionable actions on my behalf would result in me being called a “bitch ass n***a” or a “man-whore/he-slut” … I strive for equality. I don’t do it out of spite, to be mean, or to be disrespectful … but if your acting like a bitch around SBM … be prepared to get your feelings hurt.
SBM aka “You’z a hoe” & One “Don’t you dare say it” Chele
hey SBM,
I hope that I am not the only one that does not understand the explanation of the second-to-the-last category. Pls, explain
Are you serious? You think its ok to through your sandwich at someone because they forgot to put sauce on it?
*sigh* … Jesus Wept
I just think that she may have misread it or is looking for the rest of the story. I assume that with that being the whole story, yinkuslolo would agree that there was a problem with it.
I'm going to go ahead and also assume that there was a little more to the story, or I at least hope so.
LOL@ "Jesus wept.."
Oh my, I was sleepy and for some reason thought that the ''mac" was a Mac ie an Apple laptop.
Jesus does not need to weep lol
I'm having a much harder time trying to figure out how a laptop is better to throw at someone than a Big Mac.
Yep, you're the only one.
I'm gon have to do the unthinkable and go w/ RCLS on this — which barely ever happens — I think you may be the only one. For me there is no further story needed. She threw a sandwich… that pretty much sums it up.
SBM… Jesus wept tho? Lol.
Yes … He wept.
Have you ever seen someone get a big mac to the face? You would cry.
I got a 30 on that quiz, just in case you guys wanted to know.
I'm firmly of the opinion that there are situations where a woman could be called a hoe or a b*tch. I'm not gonna lie though, I would be likely to get angry if you call me a b*tch, because you're probably doing it in the middle of an argument or something and I'm already upset. If you're just randomly calling me that because you don't know my name (Nick) or something, I probably won't get upset. If I'm not being one, then I have no reason to care what you're spewing outta your mouth. The same applies for trying to call me a hoe. I know I'm not one, so if you call me one, I'm not gonna care.
The fact is, most women do find these words offensive. So, I do think that men should avoid these words like the plague unless they plan on dealing with the sh*tstorm sure to follow. It's just a respect thing.
Also, SBM, you have some HIGHLY questionable female friends.
Great post SBM and Chele.
I got a 10 on the quiz.
this —>" If I’m not being one, then I have no reason to care what you’re spewing outta your mouth".
I concur. Being called a hoe doesn't bother me, because it's not descriptive of my actions. However, I do have b*tch tendencies. Anyone can be a b*tch. I know men that are b*tches, so I take that one lightly.
Overall, if your a hoe, just don't cross my territory…Ms.Lotus is not the one
I am always mindful of being respectful … I don't know any other way. And in reality, I might utter b* or h* to someone's face less than once a year.
But … I do feel that sometimes these words have a legitimate reason coming from a man and might be the "shock" needed to correct said behavior.
i'm not going to lie and say that i've never called a woman a b*tch to her face. the one time i got slapped my immediate reaction was to call her a b*tch. she acted like it so she got called one.
i don't think i've ever called a woman a hoe to her face before. based on the examples you gave i sure would be thinking it though. lol
i got a 10 on the quiz too.
I got a 30. I feel like certain times it may be within reason to call a woman a b*tch…there are some real hating, black-hearted, soul-less women/b*tches out here…wreckin' on men like there is no tomorrow…these women I could not care three sh*ts about….
The women you gave as examples of being ho's..are ho's. I don't care three sh*ts about them either..if they don't care about themselves…I sure don't.
I called my ex a b*tch a coupla times during the divorce…and he felt likewise…lol. During our marriage I will say he never called me outta my name…ever. During the divorce I was everything but a child of God…and he was getting called more ninja's and b*tches then a lil bit..were we wrong? probably…but, its how we felt….I know married folk who cuss each other out on the regular..cuddled up the next day..its a part of their relationship dynamics…it just really depends….
I'm pretty much with OneChele on this – even amongst friends I'm only willing to be so many bytches and hoes. But I'm also not a heavy user of the n word either. Basically just phased it out.
There are some bytches and hoes out here – but you can't make them your audience. If you repeatedly find yourself in their company you need tp take a serious look at your circle of friends and acquaintences. A SERIOUS look, lol.
Men calling women out of their name just looks wack as hell, like grown women fighting in the streets or hollering real loud. In your mind you think you're calling someone else out, and really folks are thinking to themselves, "Who is this ignorant-azz ninja callin' women out their name? Must be a bytch his dayum self."
I figure violent shaking sense into a person is off-limits … so b* and h* can give a similar dose of reality without the sticky legal proceedings after.
I'm not really into name calling. Unless you're like my homey and you need to hear it or are you on a self-righteous "I own my chexuality and I just blew the football team", I'm not gonna call you a ho3. If you are a random woman engaging in what I believe to be ho3 activities, I dont care. I'm not gonna add to your low self esteem.
B*tch is a bit more iffy. If I use it, I probably hate you and have just hung up the phone from calling my cousins/aunts to whip your arse. I only used it once and that was when this real big jawn was trying to stab me. That was the last time I hit a woman.
What's good Peyso, I agree with you for the most part, but… how did you find yourself in a situation where a chick was trying to take your life?
Its written here —> http://singlesisterspeak.wordpress.com/2009/02/19…
Son, I sit right next to my boss, you can't send me to something that funny without warning. That's the funniest story I've read in a long while. Wow.
You weren't yet a man then… so it doesn't count.
damn bruh. shawty tried to shank you. yeah i would have hit her too. let me read this story.
"If you are a random woman engaging in what I believe to be ho3 activities, I dont care. I’m not gonna add to your low self esteem."
i heart this statement. so real. lol. i feel the exact same.
Honestly, I don't think there's ever a reason for a man to call a woman a b*tch to her face. I've never had to do it and I doubt I ever will. I think it's all about how you carry yourself as a man. I carry myself in a way that no woman, not even the ones who are self-proclaimed b*tches, would ever act that way toward me. If a friend is describing a situation where she acted kinda b*tchy, I would use words that are a little more edifying and productive.
In terms of calling a woman a h*e, I would never do that because that's a put-down. I would never put a woman down because of her sexual-proclivities. If she's a friend I'd be honest with her, if she's not, I'd just take note and move on.
A man should be a man at all times. Calling a woman a b*tch or a h_e to her face is not man like behavior.
"A man should be a man at all times. Calling a woman a b*tch or a h_e to her face is not man like behavior."
Cheers, confetti. I totally agree.
"A man should be a man at all times. Calling a woman a b*tch or a h_e to her face is not man like behavior."
I somewhat agree with you, but this male double standard (which I wrote about but too lazy to drop a link) can be problematic.
You say that you would use more edifying and productive language when describing said behaviour, but isn't that the equivalent of a slap on the wrist vs an all-out ass whoopin?
I agree that a man should carry himself a certain way at all times, but moms also taught me to treat people how they want to be treated. If some bird is cluckin in my face I'll show restraint, but if she crosses a certain line, or I find it appropriate, I would definitely let the b word fly from the top rope and drop an elbow on said b*
I believe in turning the other cheeks but when both are bruised do you cover up or do the Arkham Asylum RT + Y move? (sorry yall had to geek out… that game is ILL)
Its a very fine line to tread. Good Post Mos
I feel you Streetz. I said I would use more edifying a productive words to describe said behavior if she was a friend – someone I care about. I don't think calling her a hoe is going to help. At the end of the day, it's not my place to give any woman a verbal a** whoopin. If I can't get through to someone I care about without putting her down, then, I've been a terrible friend to her, because she doesn't value my opinion at all. Again, if a random chick is telling me about some h_e-like activities, I take note and move on. It's not worth calling out. She was who she was before she got here and she'll be who she is when she leaves.
For your second example, my question to you would be, how do you get to a point, as a man, where a bird is chirping in your face. Probably because you were hanging around birds. Whose fault is that? You can't go to the zoo and then get mad at the animals for acting like animals. Instead of arguing with them, why not just leave the zoo?
Have you ever actually watched seen a man call a woman a b*tch to her face? Or have you have seen a man have a full out, name calling, foul-language slinging – argument with a woman? What did you think about the man in that situation? I know I always question the manhood of and lose respect for men who have those kind of arguements with women.
"Have you ever actually watched seen a man call a woman a b*tch to her face? Or have you have seen a man have a full out, name calling, foul-language slinging – argument with a woman? What did you think about the man in that situation? I know I always question the manhood of and lose respect for men who have those kind of arguements with women."
i have and that's why it's pointless to argue with women in such a manner. lose/lose situation.
Can I ask, are there other words that you use to describe these women (i.e birds)? If so, isn't it kind of the same thing, just using a less known substitute?
Nah I def feel you
To your point about the birds… you can be anywhere and those type of chicks can and will pop up. You can be in a club and accidentally bump someone. You can be in the subway. You can be in an industry event. Hell, you can be at the MoMA! Ghetto acting people come from all backgrounds and walks of life, so environment is a factor but not THE factor.
Im not talking about full scale arguments, and I agree with that point. I've seen what you said and knew what i've thought of son, but you can make your point without having a hissy fit. Feel me
You talking about Batman Arkham Asylum? I might have to check that out.
It's like playing through an interactive version of the FOx cartoon with real life graphics. BAWSE
ok.. i'm gonna drop my own comment soon.. but that Batman game is outta control!! but um, Sane?? can you TRY and get through God of War before you start checkin out other games..
i ain't forget, Homie..
Now, why you gotta bring that up? I'm surprised you remembered, but you're right, I have to get back up on that. See, God of War is something I'm going to have to fire up over break or something. I haven't touched it in months because I know I will get sucked right into it and not put it down until I beat it. They were playing the demo for Batman at my work, and it seems like something I can pick up and put down at will (i.e Infamous). So, I could squeeze in a little game play an hour here and an hour there.
"A man should be a man at all times. Calling a woman a b*tch or a h_e to her face is not man like behavior."
99% of the time you're correct. It is in very rare and special instances when this can be used.
But … just as I am thankful of my friends willingness to "call me out my name" when I need to hear it, I think such words coming from a trusted male friend can really make a difference.
I feel you SBM. I still can't bring myself to do it. Folks on here who know me know that I rarely use foul language to begin with (accept on the basketball court/football field etc). But, I can understand your perspective of it being almost like a verbal smelling salt used to snap someone out of mental haze. Can we atleast all agree that it should never happen in public? Everybody loses in that situation…
Yeah … in public is almost always asking for some type of misunderstanding. No one wants to sit there and be called that in front of people … no matter if it was deserved or not. It's just going to result in her lashing out things getting ugly.
It should always be done in a quiet atmosphere with some slow (but non s*xual) R&B in the background. Maybe some calmness scented candles burning too.
Hmm… so as far as my GF's go… we're kinda on OneChele's level. We often use the PG-13 version of b*tch in reference to each other – aka bisches… and we use it heavily….
That bische always late
Ooooo… that bische gets on my nerbs — no, not nerves but nerbs.
Etc.
However there is an occassion when the actual word b*tch is needed and used but it always seems to get a side eye from the group. Or a "oooooo… she MEANT that." I'd say it's used w/ caution. We're not as careful w/ the garden tools though… there are many a day when I answer the phone, "Hey hoe… what's up?" Lol. I guess it doesn't bother us b/c as SaneN85 said "If I’m not being one, then I have no reason to care what you’re spewing outta your mouth”.
So if a man does the same thing (he is a good friend of yours and hasn't indicated any desire to smash or has a GF) … is it ok?
Of course I say yeah … but … that's me.
I don't recall any man ever knowing me and calling me a b*tch or a h*e. I have given no one said reason to.
The words hold no merit with me so honestly if they were used on me I would act up for the sake of acting up, but I don't think I would truly care. *shrug*
I will say its not a good look when I over hear a man calling a woman a b*tch or a h* in conversation. I take note, they may not be saying it to her face, but I just don't think its a good look for a man to even have it in his vocab. I myself don't use the terms in general conversation, along with the N word.
I got a 10 on the quiz….sometimes they ask you to slap them…
I don't think I've ever called a woman a b!tch or h0e to their face. It's just not me. But to answer One Chele's question, “When is it acceptable for a man to call a woman a b!tch or a h0e to her face?”, the answer is whenever she acts like a b!tch or a h0e. If you don't want to be called one, don't act like one. It doesn't mean as soon as she acts like one you should let the word rip, but it's acceptable to do so at that time.
I find myself in the same position. I have rarely ever done it and don't have any real plans to … but I don't think its unreasonable for a man to call a women that in certain situations.
While, I know that I can't singlehandedly change the way society thinks as a whole, I'd like to think I'm equal opportunity when it comes to the word b*tch. B*tch-like behavior is b*tch-like behavior, whether you're a man or a woman, IMO. Now of course, the word is traditionally used for a female dog and of course one can argue that calling a man a bish is the same as calling him a woman, but then I gotta ask…
What is the male equivalent? As*hole? (nah, that's too gender neutral even though it's used for males more). How about D*ck? That might be the best best, but then again, it just DOESN'T have the same stigma as b*tch does. Why is that??
i scored 10 on the quiz.. yes i did!!
ok.. so i might not be the popular train of thought ("hop aboard" on here.. but i use the term all the time.. it's usually to someone in my inner circle.. we bounce it back and forth..
my mother and i might be having a conversation and i'll look at her and say "don't be a b*tch".. and she'll say, "you're a little hoe.."
i think this is just more or less about the type of relationship we have.. she knows that i don't mean it that way.. and since the power is removed from it, and used casually, then it's no big deal..
that's just the way it turned out..
and yes, i call my friends b*tches.. but she is one, and she knows it.. so to get mad at me instead of changing the behaviour is stupid.. and since i'm more than willing to call her stupid if she ever tried to get upset, then she just doesn't react..
i do have a number of men in my circle that sees these words as curse words.. i don't.. but since i don't cuss (unless i'm UP-SET!!) then i'm trying to eradicate them from my vocabulary too..
"2010, a change i can believe in"
and yes, i do call certain chicks "bobbleheads".. that's my euphemism for h*e..
but if i know that i'm not actin like a b*tch or being a h*e, then i have no reason to get upset.. it affects me none..
#nuffsaid
i've called a girl a B***h before…when i was 13, i learned my lesson (don't call chicks bigger than you b***h)
but otherwise, i wouldn't call a chick a b***h. it's like white folks calling black folks "saggin"… they may think it, they may treat you as such…but saying it…
"eh"
so no, i don't call a woman a b***h to her face..i only say it around my boys, when they exhibit b***h-behavior, or when talking about a b***h. however, i may not call a b**h a b***h, but i'll put a b***h in that category, and regard her as such.
oh, and i got a 60.
Men can be both, what I wonder is how is it women cant see that they are sleeping with a guy (and then over rating him) is either one or both? If I hear another women claiming she "now" sees his confidence is just selfishness….what I hear is after knowing he was a ho with diva tendencies you gave him a year of your best sex and yet you still talk to his voicemail more than him and NOW you're pissed.
Now some men out of selfishness lie and say they will commit and be monogamous but now he's gone from ho to bitch. Fess up and admit it, like Jodi from Baby Boy if she still wants to be your sidepiece or GF and share you with your sidepieces thats on her.
I think the issue is dealing with people like this that you knew were ho's or bitches and then YOU go into denial as to what they are. I believe the key is stop making excuses for them, it would save a lot of us from the bitterness. Lets not get all PC about this.
I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic (is this a personal vent?), but I'll bite. I think this goes back to an earlier post on trying to change your partner. Both men and women (and yes, women do this way more) are guilty of thinking they can change (or better) their partner. They like to feel that the person will change for them because of their love. It happens, it's not always logical (love rarely is), but it happens. It's also very sad to be a witness to.
That said, men (and yes, some women) are far more guilty of being dishonest or misleading about their intentions. This is usually the reason behind those situations. Also, I try not to remember a lot of the details from Baby Boy, but was Jodi really upfront about that from the beginning?
I agree that there are people who act like *itches and *os and they need to be called that from time to time so that they know about their behavior. Now yes there are totally wrong times. An unknown girl doesn't want to talk to some random guy does not warrant for her to be called out. Maybe she'd deaf or is a lesbian or hmmmm, maybe she is not interested. It doesn't hurt or boter me anymore. I have gotten over it and it doesn't have power over me. I just laugh inside thinking, "man I pissed you off so much that this is all you can say." When you think abou it, it's kinda pathetic.
Peace, Love and Chocolate
That's all I'm looking for. The right to hold people accountable.
I don't believe its ever acceptable. For a man to call a woman a b*tch or a h*e to their face, with one exception. Now I'm going to say this, but its never happened to me. I have heard of dudes calling women "a sexy b*tch" or a b*tch in general to their face during sex. Now like I said, its never happened to me, and I don't know how I would react, but they don't seem to have too much of a problem with it.
Now as for h*e, I can't ever see that as acceptable, whether you are joking, telling a person about themselves or otherwise. I don't see how that can ever be seen in an ok light., IMO, its always gonna end up bad. Good post tho!
"Now like I said, its never happened to me, and I don’t know how I would react, but they don’t seem to have too much of a problem with it."
JemStar… did you just try to hit us with the #HypotheticallySpeakingSwindle ?
Ummm, Yes sir, I believe I did. (snickers)
Methinks it's as okay to say it as the person receiving feels it is.
It's just a term of expression; it has little to no objective validity and is not factual therefore you can take it how you like.
All it is is vocalized disrespect. It doesn't identify a problem, it's just a means of being negative. On the other hand, for ex. if I were to be called a liar (equally as hurtful), at least a problem is identified and progress can be made.
Objectively, it's never okay because it's plain disrespectful.
Good stuff SBM, I agree with most of, if not all of your ho/bitch verdicts (in your examples) but under the premise that the bitch/ho tag is unacceptable, then your labels for each specific event are simply opinionated & judgmental (judgment, like disrespect, is not cool either).
I call em B*tch's at least 3-4 times a day it like taking a vitamin part of my routine.
"What.. B*tch?
"B*tch is you crazy?
'No B*tch no?
And ALWAYS to their face, calling em a B*tch behind they back just proves you a B*tch ya self.
Some get mad, most get over it, some laugh it just depends on what type B*tch she is …
And when you hear the word "B*tch" and you ask ya girl "is he talking to me" then yes B*tch you're exactly who I was talking to.
P.S. All B*tches ain't women!
This reminds me of a conversation where a girlfriend said "Don't talk to me like I'm crazy!" My response was "If you didn't act crazy, I wouldn't have to."
This bullschit about not calling someone a name is ridiculous. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and acts like a duck, it's not a smegging mongoose.
You act or present yourself in a certain way, and then demand respect? What arrogance! Conversely, if I behave in a less than honorable manner, I deserve to be called on it. All people should be.