Single Black Mail – Baby mama stalker drama

This week, we have a classic case of baby mama drama, but not the type you may be used to… Check it out!

The Email

The relationship I have with my boyfriend is nothing short of amazing. We’re best friends, lovers, all that good sh__. We’ve been dating for two years now. He just comes with…additives. Unfortunately the unwanted aftertaste may spoil the entire cake.

My boyfriend and I randomly met on our college campus through one of his fraternity brothers. I’d just recently gotten out of a nasty break up and he himself had just had a child so we both knew we were emotionally unavailable. What started off as funbestfriendsexwhenwefeellikeitbutreturntobestfriend thing, turned into a beautiful relationship that neither of us wanted nor expected, but we couldn’t deny. We spend every available second together…and it’s freaking awesome! I’ve never been in love quite like this, and we are both making plans integrating each other in our lives post-graduation in April (sidenote, bragging, *raises the roof*)

Now that I’ve set the scene…for the bullsht… He has a wonderful toddler whom I adore but he comes in a neat little package with a woman who conspicuously DESPISES me. She goes out of her way to make it known that she hates me and would rather die than see our relationship flourish. I’m not exaggerating when I say this woman calls me private daily, stalks me…she’s even went into my car…destroyed shoes that were in it…and put them back. Of course I have no  “proof” that she’s the culprit of the egregious acts thrown my way on an awesomely regular basis.

My issue is that when I bring these things to his attention…he does nothing. He acknowledges the fact that his son’s mother goes out of her way to make his life miserable, and he feels that that’s his punishment for being irresponsible and not wrapping it up. However, he doesn’t feel that he can prove beyond reasonable doubt that it’s her that’s doing these horrible things to me. This has been happening for almost a year now. I’m under the impression she felt that I was just a fling, and now that she sees it’s more, she’s on some guerilla warfare type ish. In the end, I’m trying not to feed into the negativity but it’s tearing away at the great relationship we’ve built. I’m not sure that I can turn the other cheek forever, or even for another two years. I’ve tried confronting her myself, but it always ends up in a nasty and unnerving argument. I’m not familiar with the whole baby mama/baby daddy drama, and I don’t know what to do. Should I cut my losses before we take a further step into our relationship or stay with it in hopes she will get sick of being evil to me? I need some serious help with this decision! – Cee R.

The Response

Here’s the thing: Anytime you decide to enter a relationship with someone who has a child, there is a possibility that baby mama/daddy drama can ensue. You have to keep that in the back of your head. Now, reading your email, you say that his baby mama is making your life miserable, yet you have no proof. This is bad, only because if you have no proof, only suspicions, then it makes you look crazy/deranged/pressed/paranoid, and you NEVER want to look like that!

Short of recommending that you install closed circuit TV in your car and house, and a tap on your cell phone line, I don’t know how you can prove it’s her. Now, the bigger issue is that your man doesn’t seemed concerned when you bring it up. That “he feels that that’s his punishment for being irresponsible and not wrapping it up.” line is nothing more than a cop-out. He worries me because he seems shook of his baby mama, or he’s not assertive at all. Having a child and a relationship is complicated and simple at the same time. You don’t want to compromise the relationship between parents, but there comes a time when you have to stand up and demand respect from your baby mother. Respect for the future relationships you’ll enter and respect for your privacy. Clearly she feels like she can say or do whatever. She has his heart the way you describe it, and that does not bode well for you.
You also have to keep in mind the child. It’s not like you can demand he banish the child’s mother from his life. They are linked for LIFE! This is something you also have to consider, especially since she is active in the child’s life.

I think you need to have THAT talk with him. You need to let him know that you feel like she’s disrespecting the relationship and he NEEDS to do something! If he’s unwilling to demand respect for you, then you should bounce! No drama in this world is worth being stalked, property damage, or the extra stress. Maybe he doesn’t know how to operate in the baby mother / kid / having other relationships universe, and that’s dangerous. This isn’t a choice between you and his kid. He knows the type of woman she is, and should know how to handle it. Move on if he can’t alleviate the situation. I’ve seen Snapped and The First 48. Trust me it’s NEVER that SERIOUS!

Hope this helps!

OK Readers I need your help. Have you dealt with this situation? What would you do? Who’s in the wrong? Is she paranoid? How do you rate my advice? These situations are real, so let’s try to pontificate in peace!

Save the drama for Obama yo Mama!


 

If you want your questions answered, holla at our Single Black Mail Page! Names are always withheld to protect the innocent, and we’re happy to help!

From Our Partners

  • sanen85

    I wholeheartedly agree with your advice. There is not a man in this world that is worth all that drama if he's not willing to step up and do something about it.

    • http://www.unprotectedtalk.com theSOB

      Maybe not when you're young, but if she has a good man who might just be scared of his baby mamma he might be worth it. Dude does need to step up and get things in order, but to say no man is worth it isn't fair.

      • http://www.twitter.com/joynsidemytears Joynsidemytears

        No good MAN is scared of his child's mother. I'm going to need you to come back and read what you wrote. If he doesn't have the balls to put Stalker McCrazy Buns in check now after she is tormenting his girl and taking her anger out on her instead of talking with HIM about how she feels, all he deserves is a twin bed, a cheap box of generic tissue and some lotion.

        • http://www.streetztalk.net Streetz

          I cosign this statement. No man who's shook of his baby moms is bf material for any woman!

      • http://lefthandscribble.tumblr.com LoveB_Jones

        If you're into dating punks/wimps then I guess he's worth it, but I've never met a woman who uses either of those characteristics when describing her ideal man.

        • The Don

          Have none of you seen "beyond scared straight" i might put my running shoes on from Diabla

  • YoungestMILF

    Oh…baby mama's *hangs head in shame*. First, I hope this situation is rectified…and its my sincere hope that its handled positively. But, secondly, I hope this reader doesn't leave this situation apprehensive to date men with children for fear of all of us being this insane.

    Streetz did a great job with the reply. He touched on all the necessary things, and said pretty much everything that needed to happen. As extra support, and hopefully if your relationship is as good as you say it is, perhaps you should sit down with your man and discuss ways to approach the mother of his child respectfully but firmly. Also, I'd be interested to know what their child support/custody arrangement is looking like. You may want to square that away, or at least make moves to legally get that ball rolling before he sits down with the mother because typically those are the first areas to go awry when mom's feel scorned.

    My only solid hope is that you and her don't have another run in. Its not your place to do so, and its not her place to argue with you/have issue with you. I really hope things get better! Good luck.

  • TKO-Curly

    “I’ve seen Snapped and The First 48. Trust me it’s NEVER that SERIOUS!” Co-sign

    Good Advice

    While I have dated someone with children I never had these problems. I never got between my ex and his child/baby mama drama. And they never brought the drama to our relationship she knew about me and I knew about her.

    I think the biggest thing that she is missing is PROOF! Men don’t want to hear assumptions they want evidence. So either you take Streez advice and install some security devise or hire a PI to obtain the much needed evidence. Until then your BF will con’t to brush off the issue and it will con’t to eat away at your relationship. I would also recommend you guys go to counseling before planning a life together.

  • TWIsM81

    Streetz, you knocked it out the park, man. Good job. And I'm gonna take a different stance on the issue. I'ma have to agree that without proof that ol' girl is actually breakin' into cars and causing all sorts of strife, it's hard for either party to confront this crazy chick (if she's crazy, she probably has crazy-ass friends who would not only cosign her stupidity, but may even act on her behalf.)

    There's really only two ways to handle crazy: 1) You give them enough rope to eventually hang themselves or 2) You step your crazy up and fight fire with fire. Unfortunately, in 1, you have to endure more than you'll want; and in 2, well you don't really know the extent of her crazy. Sh*t could get real ugly. (Plus water works better when fighting fire).

    • http://www.streetztalk.net Streetz

      Two Crazies don't make a sane (no Shots at SANE85).

      • sanen85

        There aren't two of anything in this world that can make another me :)

        • http://twitter.com/slimjackson Slimuel L. Jackson

          I'd argue that your parents in the other universe already have. #Fringe

  • Sade

    I agree with your advice. She can complain all she wants but baby mama isn't going to stop until he stands up to her and informs her that things need to change. She needs to let him know how she feels and he needs to let his ex know that just because she's the mother of his child doesn't mean she has any right to get involved in his relationships whether directly or indirectly.

  • Corey

    I wouldn't even worry about confronting her myself. She ain't your problem. She's HIS problem and right now he needs to firmly check that arse. If he's not willing to stop her tomfoolery for his own sanity you can't expect him to much to aid you with your issues in this mess. I would let him know he needs to lower the boom or he can figure it out by himself.

    • TellyLongLegs

      "She ain’t your problem. She’s HIS problem and right now he needs to firmly check that arse. If he’s not willing to stop her tomfoolery for his own sanity you can’t expect him to much to aid you with your issues in this mess. I would let him know he needs to lower the boom or he can figure it out by himself."

      Exactly! As long as he continues to not do anything the baby momma will continue the crazy.

  • NinaFontaine

    This is great advice and she should proceed as advised. However, I don't necessarily agree that she needs proof. That man knows his baby's mother is crazy. I would also question what the nature of his relationship was with the child's mother was while they were doing the "funbestfriendsexwhenwefeellikeitbutreturntobestfriend thing". I say this because I was in a similar circumstance. I had no choice but to walk away from the relationship when she ended up calling me and telling me they slept together the same week I became his "girl". He said he did it to keep the peace! (dude logic) But once he stopped all hell broke loose.

    I digress – as I stated in my first sentence she should proceed as advised.

    • TrackStar

      Exactly! Same here. Although no children were involved, bish just couldn't/wouldn't let go and I was convinced she was certified psycho. However, once I began to investigate further, I discovered they were still smushing well into the early stages of our courtship before we officially became official. In retrospect I can see why she went bat shish crazy (smushing with the ex one day, and then a few days later seeing his fb status changed to "in a relationship"…and its not with you).

      In this situation, the dude may be passive because he knows he contributed to the baby mama's rage, just a thought…

      • http://www.twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

        Ya'll bring up a really good point that I'm trying to make in my gchat right now lol. I bet good money the baby mama is acting like that for a reason. I don't even think she's crazy at all. We love to throw that label around. I think she's scorned. Obviously she feels wronged in some way. I think some men should take better responsibility when having female drama. He needs to see what he's doing to make her feel like she has the right to challenge his current woman. Why would she be acting like that if they have been over?

        • Psyche

          Agreed. I can't imagine that he and the baby moms could be completely over for over 2 years (or however long he's been with new gf) and baby moms is still acting "crazy". Thats a long time for someone to go out of their way to make someone elses life miserable without fuel to the fire.

        • Eddie Brock

          ^Yup! He's probably hitting the Baby Mama on the side and getting her all confused. IMHO, she should drop this guy and find a nice kid/drama free dude. Either that or get 4 of her best girl goons and beat the living sh*t outta BM.

          >:0]

    • http://www.shesoflyy.wordpress.com Muze

      can i just say i heart you for saying "dude logic."

      that's all. lol.

  • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

    Good Morning…

    Wow… I feel bad for girlfriend… however… She signed up for the man with kids… no problem…

    I am #TeamPI, #Team Surveillance and all that good sh*t, and I don't mind the counter surveillance either…

    I agree with Streetz, the dude is horribly mismanaging this situation…

    I have to ask, is he sleeping with his baby's mother…? Because I believe in lifetime p*ssy privileges and you know the baby's mother wants him back…

    Here is where the guy needs to pull a "Michael Jai White" in "Why Did I Get Married…?" and check his baby's mother… No excuses…

    My worst nightmare is to fall in love with a woman with kids… They are only good for Super-Short-Term-Relationships…

    My favorite baby mother is Montana Deleon… And I wonder how many women out there are super model in looks and is SUPER RATCHET & have a whole bunch of kids… There has to be at least 10 of them running around in America…

    • goons

      My worst nightmare is to fall in love with a woman with kids… They are only good for Super-Short-Term-Relationships…

      ==================================

      This right here is some BS… No wonder baby mama's stalk bishes!!

      • http://www.twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

        This blog needs a DISLIKE button….and stat.

        • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

          It is obvious why you would not like this… But whatever… Enjoy

        • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

          You got your wish sweetheart…

    • http://www.streetztalk.net Streetz

      My worst nightmare is to fall in love with a woman with kids… They are only good for Super-Short-Term-Relationships…

      I have to no-sign this 1000000 percent! This shows your age dude. Having children doens't diminish character or any woman or man! Come on dogs be real with yourself.

      • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

        I know you want to forget all the stuff that comes with having children while going to the character argument…

        But I stand by my statements… If you take women with kids seriously, I will definitely applaud you for it… I don't… And I think they are only good for s*x… THERE, I SAID IT…

        Different strokes for different folks… Same for getting married…

        Enjoy

    • Eddie Brock

      Just gonna leave this here and go back to lurkdom…..

      http://www.partnersinrhyme.com/soundfx/applause_s

    • http://codecipher.blogspot.com MeteorMan

      My worst nightmare is to fall in love with a woman with kids… They are only good for Super-Short-Term-Relationships…

      Dang! #IdontbustbackcuzIshootfirst

      I disagree (of course). Let me tell you why. Any decent mother won't ask you to assist in providing for the child unless you two was moving in together. She was taking care of her child before you and will continue to do so after you. The worse case scenario is that the father won't be around at all and/or the child is unruly. All you have to do is show he a good time and be respectful. Look at it like this, being a parent is a 24-7 job and women LOVE their kids but like time away from their kids. With that said, you might not even make the cut to meet their children. No woman wants to look like a slore in front of her children. Also, chances are that she already knows how to cook homie! Many women weren't taught how to cook by their elders. They're "professional" and didn't take the time to teach themselves. Girl is prolly throwing down, but you don't get that in super-short-term though.

      The only realistic down side of dating a women with child is you're limited on the degrees of spontaneity. You can't be like, "Hey babe. I was just thinking of you. Let's head to iHop." If it's to be just you and her, she has to have time to find a baby sitter. And ya'll just can't hang out and let the schedule unfold. That has to be accounted for ahead of time. Basically, you have to work around the available babysitter's time. Yep…

      • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

        Call me Mr. myopic or provincial, if you want to defend SM, or better yet SBMs… go ahead…

        I know the amount of decent good women are low… But not to the point where I would want to be serious with a a girl with kids…

        There are three type of single mothers…

        widows, divorcees, & baby mothers (maybe the derogatory term can deter the women coming up to demand commitments out of men before they have children together…)

        If you are in the last category, and you are YOUNG (under 30), I think less of you…

        You didn't do ENOUGH to demand a commitment from a DUDE first, before letting him nut up all inside you…

        But I guess I am wrong for thinking that TOO…

        Of course there are extenuating circumstances & really effed up situations that are out of your control for a small percentage…

        Ideally, (unfortunately SM have needs too), single mothers need to warn the next group of women who are coming up in the world to make better decisions than they did…

        Enjoy…

        • http://codecipher.blogspot.com MeteorMan

          You didn’t do ENOUGH to demand a commitment from a DUDE first, before letting him nut up all inside you…

          That's an example of the foolishness women fall for and get all down on themselves when a guy chooses to dog them out. They get emotional issues over ish like this. Quit with these lies… You know good and well there's NOTHING a woman can do to yield commitment from a man. It's always his choice. If you don't agree with that then that means you agree with the large assumptions women sometimes make thinking they'll change a man's heart/mind. c'mon son…

          Of course there are extenuating circumstances & really effed up situations that are out of your control for a small percentage…

          What are these extenuating circumstances? Is it the situations where women have children within a committed relationship but the guy walks away given he's not ready for the child or he cheats on her? But wait that's actually isn't all that rare within the black community… Oh.

        • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

          @MM

          A true commitment from a man is SIGNING a marriage certificate… Being legally bound with consequences for breaking the contract…

          Not saying "I LOVE YOU", Not getting a ring, not having a wedding…

          Extenuating circumstances to me is…

          getting RAPED… & any situation that was REALLY out of your control…

          having s*x & being s*xual is natural… But it still a choice for most women…

        • http://codecipher.blogspot.com MeteorMan

          @Adonis
          A true commitment from a man is SIGNING a marriage certificate… Being legally bound with consequences for breaking the contract…

          A true commitment from a man is UPHOLDING a commitment. Keeping his word. Signing a certificate doesn't make you more or less the father of a child or part of a relationship. Marriage certificate doesn't bind you to be faithful. The rules of your relationship does. What did I just say? The state cannot enforce romance or the upholding of a romantic relationship. It's STILL a guy's choice to uphold his word.

          'Breaking' the marriage contract is a divorce and the consequences are subject to the terms in which the contract is made, both prenuptial and postnuptial agreements. But there's no breakage of the contract for relationship issues. Only if there's a divorce. What I say still stands…

        • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

          Now, here his where the uppercut comes in, because you playing games now…

          How often did a woman get married, had kids with a dude & he just UP & LEFT…

          compared to…

          A woman who was f*cking her boyfriend, (no real commitment), got pregnant, and the man UP & LEFT…

          I promise you, that married men are more likely to honor their commitments then men who didn't get married to the woman they impregnated…

          I will concede to you points… Because they have truth to it… But all I am asking of women is to get the legal commitment FIRST, then have children, then if he still leaves…

          You have some grounds to argue…

          But AGAIN, that is not what is happening MOST OF THE TIME…

          Talk To Me

      • http://codecipher.blogspot.com MeteorMan

        But all I am asking of women is to get the legal commitment FIRST, then have children, then if he still leaves…

        Marriage is NOT a legal commitment to raise your kids. In having kids, you are legally bound to take care of them in reference to the guidelines imposed by the state of the legal guardian. So having kids and neglecting them is illegal regardless of the existence of a marriage contract. Therefore both parents are held responsible when a child is born. What is the divorce rate now, ~50% WITH children involved?

        You cannot fault a woman for choosing to have a child simply b/c she isn't married. Being married doesn't innately provide a measure for how much any guy will care to maintain a family. And given no woman can make a guy do anything (especially marry her), it makes no sense to assert that she's stupid for having a child out of wedlock. Having a child out of wedlock doesn't speak on the dynamics of the relationship. Signing a marriage contract doesn't either. It only means that they signed a contract and their reasoning could be all screwed up, hence one of the reasons for the huge divorce rate.

        • http://www.streetztalk.net Streetz

          Yo Adonis,

          I respect your opinion but you sound like a effing idiot! Where are you coming up with your numbers dogz?!

          "I promise you, that married men are more likely to honor their commitments then men who didn’t get married to the woman they impregnated…"

          Are you kidding me?! What country or part of the Multiverse do you reside?! Your comments make you look unintelligent, uninformed, and very very ignorant.

          I've been trying to figure out for months whether your comments are a gimmick or if this is really you, and at this point I don't care anymore.

          You yourself have admitted to being effeminate and young minded, so what makes you think that these broad generalizations are accurate?! Your 22/23 plus years on this earth? Please.

          Listen son, things happen. If a woman was being irresponsible and had the kid, then yes it was preventable. DO you know how many babies are made from BF/GF relationships where thy decide to keep it? Men and women have a devotion to one another and want to see it through

          No one can predict the future, so if a dude doesnt want to be with the chick, she's less of a woman for a mutual break up or a breakup in general? Do you value childrens lives right now? Youre making childbirth look like Gonnorhea!

          I would even make a conjecture that you were born out of unwed love. Or imagine if your mom told you that you were, or she had a son.daughter out of wedlock and put her up for adoption. Would you consider her an unworthy slore?!

          If you desire to find a woman (or man) in your life, I sincerely worryu for you. Its ignorance like these strands of comments that make you're personal growth seem leaps and bounds away.

          No im not offering me or anyone else to mentor you. I challenge you to grow up, smarten up, and see all things!

          This is coming from a man with no kids who's dated women with kids, has friends who have had kids out of wedlock and BOTH parents are stil in the lives. Our generation owns us. Do your research!

          This dude lucky I gave up cursing for Lent

          One

        • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

          Yo Adonis,

          Good Afternoon Streetz, we'll eventually meet IRL, and I will not disappoint, I promise

          I respect your opinion but you sound like a effing idiot! Where are you coming up with your numbers dogz?!

          I made a statement that

          "Married men are more likely to commit the woman & the children they made together then men who didn't make that legal commitment"

          Although I am not proven wrong in my assertion… I couldn't find the numbers (yet) to back up my findings… My bad… I'll do better the next time around…

          “I promise you, that married men are more likely to honor their commitments then men who didn’t get married to the woman they impregnated…”

          Are you kidding me?! What country or part of the Multiverse do you reside?! Your comments make you look unintelligent, uninformed, and very very ignorant.

          Please elaborate… Because although I made an assertion with no numbers to back it up… I need to be proven WRONG in my assertion before I get a complete and utter concession…

          I don't mind the perceptions, and you remind me that I need to care even less about people who perceive me that way…

          I’ve been trying to figure out for months whether your comments are a gimmick or if this is really you, and at this point I don’t care anymore.

          Now we are getting somewhere… GOOD FOR YOU… But I am Adonis… An intelligent. uninformed & ignorant Adonis… This is me…

          You yourself have admitted to being effeminate and young minded, so what makes you think that these broad generalizations are accurate?! Your 22/23 plus years on this earth? Please.

          I stand by me saying that I am a slightly feminine male… especially when I compare myself to hyper-masculine men… It is a good reminder if that I want to live out my dreams… I have to make some significant changes… And yes, I believe most of my broad generalizations are accurate… when I am wrong about something… I admit it… change my views & move on… I think you share that trait with me, so I know you get it…

          Listen son, things happen. If a woman was being irresponsible and had the kid, then yes it was preventable. DO you know how many babies are made from BF/GF relationships where thy decide to keep it? Men and women have a devotion to one another and want to see it through

          Good for them… I think that is wonderful…

          No one can predict the future, so if a dude doesnt want to be with the chick, she’s less of a woman for a mutual break up or a breakup in general? Do you value childrens lives right now? Youre making childbirth look like Gonnorhea!

          I agree…

          My issue is simply of irresponsible women… that is the majority…

          Not women who did all they can to get a man to commit first, then have kids & failed… that is the minority… I have sympathy for these women, not the irresponsible ones…

          I would even make a conjecture that you were born out of unwed love. Or imagine if your mom told you that you were, or she had a son.daughter out of wedlock and put her up for adoption. Would you consider her an unworthy slore?!

          Sigh… For the record… my mom did get a commitment out of my dad before they had me…

          And yes, I would think less of my mom is she was being a whore and get having kids willy-nilly… that goes for my sister, aunts, nieces, & cousins… I DO NOT DEFEND BAD BEHAVIOR… I lack the familial bond… But that is a separate issue…

          If you desire to find a woman (or man) in your life, I sincerely worryu for you. Its ignorance like these strands of comments that make you’re personal growth seem leaps and bounds away.

          Hmmm… Okay… That's Fine

          No im not offering me or anyone else to mentor you. I challenge you to grow up, smarten up, and see all things!

          Can't argue with that… Thanks

          This is coming from a man with no kids who’s dated women with kids, has friends who have had kids out of wedlock and BOTH parents are stil in the lives. Our generation owns us. Do your research!

          "Our generation owns us" & yes I need to do more research…

          Enjoy…

          This dude lucky I gave up cursing for Lent

          One

        • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

          unintelligent*

  • http://www.unprotectedtalk.com theSOB

    Has the young lady ever tried to sit down and talk with the baby moms. It can be many reason why the BF hasn't stepped up and put his baby moms in her place.

    • NinaFontaine

      I thought this initially but then wondered if she did not want to really know why (meaning the current girlfriend). It would be a mature move – but if the baby mama is indeed bat ish crazy – there could be some legal consequences (i.e. assaults, arrests………etc)

  • http://ladyngo.blogspot.com Lady Ngo

    I agree wholeheartedly with your advice.

    I know that i will (or would have been in my younger years- i'd like to think im a bit more mature now) be the most horrible baby mama in the world which is why i take all the proper precautions to prevent that from happening . My thinking is, how dare u knock me up then bounce with the next chick- and yes i do realize how immature/ridiculous that is, but it is what it is. I don't think i'd be messin up the next chicks stuff but me and the "daddy" would def have problem. (don't judge me lol)

    Anywho, I think the guy should handle this situation. This is not the girlfriends burden to bear. And if the dude won't at least TRY to put baby mama in check, then gf needs to just walk away or shut up and deal with it

    • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

      Comments like this are promising, now if only women can get this in their teens & early twenties

  • goons

    I think the author hit the nail on the head with this one…..

    Firstly, he may not be responding because you have no proof. I will give him the benefit of the doubt so get the proof and then have the talk. See where that gets you.

    Secondly when you do get the proof, have the talk and if he does not step up to check his baby mama then LEAVE. You do not need the stress of a man who is not able to defend and protect his fam (you). It is not worth it. There are plenty of fish out there and you are young…

    Thirdly (but highly not recommended) put that bish in check yourself…ok kidding, that is just gansta…she aint your problem however you can politely let her know she is a non mutha f*** factor..lol..Be careful though coz she might snatch your wig off.

    Lastly, I also question the way you guys started off as well. He could have moved on without having resolved some issues since both of you at the time were not looking when u hooked up. There could be something there. Personally I am not a fan of relationships that start off like that because half of the time, there is always some crap that pops up down the line baby mama or not!!

    • TrackStar

      "she is a non mutha f*** factor"

      I heart you for the BB Wives reference, lol. That may have been one of the realist comments made on that show, ever. Evelyn really just didn't give an eff about her ratchedness. Which could possibly be the same mentality that the Baby Mama has. However, at the end of the day the REAL problem is the dude. He is not doing right by either one of these ladies. He more than likely didn't end things properly with the ex, and he definitely doesn't have his current girl's back at all. They need to sit him down together and find out what's really been going on for the past two years.

  • lynx

    It was said that the baby momma can't be banned from his life. Yes she can, if dude pays child support and just walks away from that situation if the baby mother is refusing to act right. Two he can prove she's unstable and unfit get custody of the child and have the mothers visitation revoked permanently. When you know the laws you can use them to your benefit. If I was a man I personally wldnt put up with baby momma issues, nor dating a man that cldnt keep his past in check and out of our present. What baby mommas need to realize is this….the new woman doesn't have to accept nor have any dealings with their child and most women don't want too. Its that's womans choice, I don't believe in the package deal..just bcuz im with you I have to deal with your child also. Sorry I don't believe that. everyone has a choice. Just bcuz I accept you doesn't mean your child is a factor in my life. That happened before me and the past stays in the past.

    • http://www.twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

      Not that you're completely wrong but it is very very very difficult to take away custody from the mother. Proving mental instability is almost impossible. That's not the solution if she's not playing nice, especially if she actually is a good mother. Plus, I don't believe in just paying up and "walking away". No need to punish the child for the mother's bad ways. If you decide to have unprotected s.ex with a crazy, dysfunctional woman and she get's pregnant…you will have to deal with her and forever. That's life. The only person who has a choice is the girlfriend. If she doesn't like it, she should leave.

      • http://www.streetztalk.net Streetz

        And just because she terrorizes your new chick, doesnt mean shes an unfit mother.

        Just bloggin

    • Kema

      " I don’t believe in the package deal..just bcuz im with you I have to deal with your child also. Sorry I don’t believe that. everyone has a choice."

      YES!!! It is a package deal. The only way I can see it not being one is if you stay on jumpoff status. Then you dont ever have to worry about him including you in what should be the most important part of his life. His legacy…

    • TellyLongLegs

      When you date someone with a child/children it is a package deal. You can't leave a child in the past like it's just a memory. The child/children is the past, the present and the future. 

      Just because you don't believe something, doesn't mean it's not true. 

  • InsomniaPoet

    I think she is tripping. (the GF not the BM) It doesn't sound like the BM did anything disrespectful. She thinks BM is calling from private numbers & stalking but with no proof it's just paranoia. And it sounds like the arguing only happens when GF tries to confront BM.

    Now if BM was cussing GF out or being disrespectful in front the child then the bf would need to check the BM. But in this situation I think the writer of the email needs to be checked.

    When he was just a fling you didn't care about his baby mama drama but now that you are wifey and wanna spend every waking moment with him the baby mama is crazy? Sounds to me like a year ago you realized how in love you are with this man and that you may wanna spend your life with him but then also recognized spending your life with him involves this other woman and her child.

    My advice is to decide if this is the man for you. If he is quit bringing this mess to him, ignore old girl & get some proof. If you get proof then go get a restraining order. Until then be secure in what you have with your bf. If the BM is really crazy and hates you – seeing that you wont let that mess bother you will be the ultimate reward.

    • http://www.threewaystotakeit.com/ Slimuel L. Jackson

      Nice to see ya!

  • QueenT

    This is too much..it sounds like an episode of SNAPPED leading up to the part when someone gets hurt…this young lady sounds dangerous…I would definitely file some type of report on her just so the authorities have something on record….I would then solicit a friends help to try and get some proof on her..she's going to have to become a private detective on this one..just sitting back and letting her boyfriend handle it..isn't working…..I know, a lot of people are saying leave the guy alone..but, I would try some things first before I decided to leave for good..because this guy seems like a real keeper and it seems like may just be worth the effort…..if all else fails….then of course she should LEAVE…I wouldn't expend a whole lot of time on this though….she needs to find this proof QUICK.

    • QueenT

      Oh, and on second read, anybody else think the BF may have something still going on with the BM? She sounds like a woman scorned to me….I would love to hear her side of this love triangle…sounds like BF may have some explaining to do…maybe, thats why he's so non-chalant about everything…..maybe, she needs to have a talk with the BM first…..

      • TellyLongLegs

        You're right. Maybe he led the BM to believe something else while sleeping with both her and the GF. He's probably not scared at all, just wants to have his cake and eat it too.

      • http://twitter.com/ModelingNShit Flyy

        Queen I think you read my mind… my second read and past experiences left me throwing a little bit more than a *side-eye* at the dude. Lol. I've been there where the dude was sleeping w/ the BM occasionally and when the girl started to go insane after he pulled away he had the DUMB look on his face. I will say that she was never crazy enough to mess w/ me or my property. She would come to his house – while I was there – egg his car and all kinds of craziness but leave my sh.t pristine. She knew better… lol.

        Anywhozers… one side of me says that if she's convinced BM is doing all of this, she should try to have a mature conversation w/ her if BF is going to do it. I'm not turning into nobody's PI rolling in bushes nsh.t tryna get some evidence, eff that. The ONLY thing I'm doing, is telling my BF what I feel like is happening at that point I need him to take action. I don't expect him to dog his BM or cuss her out… but it sounds like the BM/BF have never had a "we-have-a-child-but-we're-not-together-so-what-are-our-boundaries" talk. They need to and now is as great a time as ever.

        • http://twitter.com/ModelingNShit Flyy

          *have a mature conversation w/ her if BF is not going to do it.

          d@mn typos.

        • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

          I’m not turning into nobody’s PI rolling in bushes nsh.t tryna get some evidence, eff that.

        • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

          I’m not turning into nobody’s PI rolling in bushes nsh.t tryna get some evidence, eff that.

          I LOVED THIS

          Although I disagree…

          Investigating is fun

      • GirlSixx

        I would love to hear her side of this love triangle…sounds like BF may have some explaining to do.

        You and Me both *hmph*

        Something ain't right.

        • http://www.streetztalk.net Streetz

          We need to do SBM Maury type show, get the Baby mama on the blog, and find out wtf isgoing on!!

          JERRY!! JERRY!! lol

      • sanen85

        Exactly! I'm a firm believer that MOST women (and men) don't go Carrie Fisher on their ex unless there is some sort of underlying reason. The way I see it is that there is probably still (or was until recently) something going on between him and the BM. This is likely the reason for him wanting to keep the peace and not say something to her. If there isn't something going on, I still stand by my opinion that he's not worth all the drama if he can't even step up and do something about it. Like SoFlyy said, I'm not turning into Dick Tracy just because he left his balls in his BM's coat pocket.

      • Kema

        Yep! Sounds just like Baby Boy to me.

  • GirlSixx

    Good Advice Streetz,

    Didn't read all comments yet so i'm just going to say this. Ole boy appears to be shook of his baby mama and i am wondering if the reason being she may have some dirt hanging over his head like maybe he WAS/IS still hitting that and he knows BM can go off and tell GF anytime she feels like. It so he's letting her do whateva the hell she wants to GF as long as it's not affecting him directly.. (Not his car, not his shoes, she ain't stalking him) so he's chillin.

    Just my 2cents…

  • http://earsandlps.wordpress.com LaLaBakir

    Great advice! That's a crazy situation right there. The man definitely needs to step up and speak with his child's mother and hopefully clear the air.

    This is just another lesson in being real clear on the person your bedding b/c you might end up in an 18 year contract with a serious head case.

  • http://www.twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

    I'm a "baby mama" so I hope no one uses this post to go in on all baby mamas like we're all possesive lunatics because most baby mamas I know aren't this way. Okay, now that I've said that, I think your reply was perfect. Dating someone with children, especially young children is VERY hard. I can tell you that my daughter's father will always be special to me and he has said the same about me. Whoever we date in the future will have security issues, that's a given. The problem is when this outside person becomes a force in your relationship. I actually put the responsibility on the man. Why? Because he's a man. I feel like it's much easier for men to check women than the other way around. He could put his baby mother in her place and put an end to her dysfunctional ways. It seems like he's not doing that. She's acting like that because she can, period. She sees a weakness and she's trying to get what she wants, him. He has to be strong. Eventually, once she realizes her ways aren't working, she'll stop.

    Even if the girlfriend tries to catch the baby mama in the act, she can forget about calling the police. That's the mother of his child and he WILL resent her for sending the mother to jail. What you said is great. She needs to work on the boyfriend to put a stop to the behavior or leave.

    • http://www.sheliagoss.com Shelia Goss

      "I can tell you that my daughter’s father will always be special to me and he has said the same about me. Whoever we date in the future will have security issues, that’s a given."

      Why would there be a security issue if the only thing you two share is a child together? Just curious. Because the average woman or man doesn't get insecure about two adults getting along that share children. The issues come in when one or the other are being disrespectful or if said parties are still knocking boots.

      • http://www.twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

        "Because the average woman or man doesn’t get insecure about two adults getting along that share children."

        You'd be surprised. One of the main reasons many of my homegirls don't like to date men with children is because they're insecure on whether he is/isn't smashing the baby mom. There are alot of insecurities in dealing with a man who will forever have communication with his ex due to a child or any reason for that matter.

        • http://www.twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

          Plus, I'd like to add that there is ALOT of jealousy between the current girlfriend and baby mother…even when there's no reason for it.

        • sanen85

          That's kind of the point though. If you have an appropriate relationship with your BM/BD (and make sure to let the new SO know there is nothing to be insecure about), then there should be no question whether you are sleeping with them or not.

          I mean, there's a difference between co-parent and maintaining a relationship that is close enough to make your SO feel insecure. Of course, there are some women/men who will be insecure about it and not have any real reason to be. However, you made it sound like their insecurities would be justified by your close relationship with the ex.

          I'm not sure if this is making any damn sense.

        • Eddie Brock

          No offense to you or any other BMs on the board, but that's always been the primary reason I'd avoid women with kids. I always thought the BD could just ease back in whenever he wanted some. The last girl dated had an autistic child, but she had a host of "other" issues as well that prevented us from moving further.

        • http://www.sheliagoss.com Shelia Goss

          I know it's not that cut and dry but it takes matue adults to deal with

          A) Baby Daddy/Baby Mama moving on to be with someone else.

          B) Woman/Man dealing with their signifcant other with a Baby Mama/Daddy

          Sometimes a person's attitude will determine what happens. The Baby Mama or Baby Daddy shouldn't feel like they have special privileges or right just because they birth or donated sperm. When I see that happen, it usually means the BM or BD still have unresolved feelings for the mama/daddy of their child. So when a significant other enters into the picture, drama is bound to happen…whether done intentionally or unintentionally.

        • http://www.twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

          @Sane

          You're making perfect sense. I get it. I don't believe in being "friends" with exes while in relationships so I completely agree. Double messages is when drama follows.

    • sanen85

      It sounds like you and your BD ( *sings* Who Dat Is? That Just My Babby Daddy) have a pretty good relationship. The thing is that not every BM/BD relationship is like that. So, while the people you guys date may have reasons to be insecure about the father/mother of your child, not everyone dating a person with kids will be in that situation. In fact, I'd go so far as to say if you're sure that the people you'd date would have reason to be insecure, why date at all? Why not be with the father of your child? I wouldn't want to be with a man who is comfortable knowing/believing that I have good reason to be insecure about another woman. I would want that man to make it clear to me (and her) that there is not a reason in the world to be insecure.

      Anyways, I meant to say that because not every BM/BD relationship is as good as yours, he wouldn't necessarily resent her for sending her to jail. I know tons of men in cordial relationships with their dramafied BMs that wouldn't give a damn about her being sent to jail.

      • http://www.twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

        I hear you. I'm not saying I'm comfortable with my partner being insecure. I would do everything I could to ease his mind because that's my nature. I'm just saying that he will be because I know how men/women are. No matter what my relationship with my daughter's father is like, any man I meet is going to be alittle uneasy with the level of communication I have with my ex. I would like to think that most people understand when it comes to children but the truth is many don't. Sometimes there's a level of selfishness because it's not their child.

        Also, just because I'm a single mother, doesn't mean I'm going to stop dating for fear that men would be unaccepting of my situation. All issues get resolved over time, even insecure feelings. I'm a package deal so any man I date would have to understand and it will get better. I can't let my past hold me back from the future. I can't go back to my ex just because he's the father of my child or a good man. 😉

        As far as sending the BM to jail. I don't know a single father who would be cool with that. What happens to the child when the mother goes to jail? Exactly. Either she's going to him, family or the system. If the BM is mistreating the child, that's one thing but to send her to jail because she's misbehaving with his current girl is not something I see men do. It's hard for them to see a woman go to prison or hurt like that….or so I'd like to think. lol

        • sanen85

          I guess I live in a different world, because I know a ton of men (and women) who would be fine with the parent of their child going to jail. Of course, I mean a week or so tops, I'm not meaning a long-term trip to prison. I don't think anything the girl has described would result in a prison stay and if it did, I can see where he'd be upset (obviously).

          Also, I see a lot of men and women in relationships with single parents, and generally most of the insecure ones have good reason to be. I've talked to a few men with kids and two of them had great relationships with their BM. However, those relationships weren't so close that I ever felt the need to be insecure. I guess I'm naive in my thinking that if you don't give them a reason to feel insecure, then 80% of the time they won't be.

        • http://www.twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

          You're not naive. I see both. Sometimes it's justified, sometimes it's not. I guess it's just a hard situation over all and takes alot of maturity.

    • NinaFontaine

      I agree. People do what you allow them to. Dating a man with a child (I have no children) takes security from within. A woman has to know that these people have to raise a future man or woman together and should encourage a positive relationship with a baby mom if the situation in serious.

    • TrackStar

      Well said SFG. At the end of the day the responsibility falls on the father/boyfriend. He is the common denominator in all of these issues that are slowly beginning to deteriorate this relationship. He can very easily save both of these women a lot stress and heartache if he were to just man-up and handle his business.

      • http://www.twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

        Thanks. I get tired of seeing some men sit back and watch two women fight over him. Not cool.

  • Kamala Jones

    Streetz, I agree with the advice you've given. I just have one thought that popped in my head. I wonder if the boyfriend is still sleeping with the baby mama b/c he just seems too lax regarding this very serious issue. This drama is just punishment for a moment of irresponsibility?! Maybe I'm wrong but I don't know any man who is serious about a woman that will have that kind of attitude when his woman is mistreated even if it's his baby mama mistreating his woman.

    I'm very hesitant to get in a relationship with a woman that has a child b/c I don't want a ready made family, possible baby daddy drama, and that a lot of baby mamas/baby daddys remain s*x partners long after their relationships have ended.

  • Kdubb

    Great advise Streetz! In my (not so expert) opinion the relationship isn't all peaches and cream as the emailer described, obviously the boyfriend does not know how to navigate the I have a baby mama and gf waters. He is not ready or willing to deal with the problems he had a hand in creating. He clearly did not have a much needed adult conversation with the bm after the breakup or when he began the new relationship. The gf and bm have no need to communicate. Until the gf is a wife, she's just temporary. He needs to put the bm in her place and if he is unwilling then he's just not the one. A woman needs to feel like her man will protect her in all situations including those involving family and friends. Gf needs to talk with bf and let him know how she feels…. either u check her or its over.

    • http://www.threewaystotakeit.com/ Slimuel L. Jackson

      I really agree with this right here. Great perspective.

  • TellyLongLegs

    I think you gave great advice Streetz. Like Queen T stated in one of her comments above I would try to speak with the BM as well. I know she said she tried but in what manner? Did she just approach her with " Bish, I know you broke into my car" or "Is there a way we can have a conversation about having a safe environment for your child?" With crazy people you can't just approach them in anyway and expect them to act "normal". 

     

    • sanen85

      I assume that if the BM is crazy, the last thing she will want is to be approached by the girlfriend. Even if 'ol girl approached her in a civil manner, it's like that the BM will get pissed about the girlfriend trying to have any say in what she does with her child. I know lots of crazy BM/BD and I have seen this scenario play out more than once.

      • TellyLongLegs

        You do have a point. But what if she's not crazy and just scorned. Talking to her may reveal some things that she may have not known. I could be a little naive in this situation but sometimes addressing the manner in a civil manner may yield positive results. But if BM is just plain ole crazy and she already approached her correctly then she just take Streetz advice.

  • http://twitter.com/ModelingNShit Flyy

    Good advice overall Streetzie. I think the only thing I disagree w/ is "She has his heart the way you describe it…" I don't know if I would describe it like that. I don't know if you meant have his heart as in lingering romantic feeling or his heart clutched in fear, lol. And the way he's being a pansy about saying something to her I'm inclined to think it was the 2nd.

    • http://www.twitter.com/SmartFoxGirl SmartFoxGirl

      Heeeeeey Flyy *waves frantic* It's definitely fear or he's still smashing. Maybe both. lol

      • http://twitter.com/ModelingNShit Flyy

        *e-hugs* Hey SFGeeee!!

        I wouldn't even doubt that he is still smanging that thang. I've been there (as the GF) so I know it to be true. & contrary to popular belief, women aren't crazy for no reason. A lot of BMs are perfectly fine with their BDs dating, etc. So if she's acting out either they are still involved or she is just certifiably crazy.

        • http://www.streetztalk.net Streetz

          OK Yuck at all this e-love

          and

          When I say "She has his heart" Thats NYC slang. We used to say "I got your heart in my back pocket" to signify that someone feared you and you controlled their level of comfort. "Got yo heart:" for short.

          Synonymns: Shook, Scurred, Heart pumps kool-aid

          Antonyms: Braveheart, Guts, Soldier.

        • http://twitter.com/ModelingNShit Flyy

          Lmao. You know us Non-New Yorkers need a breakdown every now and again… thanks for being UrbanDictionary.com for a moment.

  • CPT Callamity

    Ugh@ Baby Momma. Can we get a name change or come up with some other terminology?

    Dude needs to check his girl, seriously. Ole girl who is in the relationship with him is crapping the meal that she ate and part of the reason she has indigestion is because dude has no backbone. Once again…choices…

    • http://www.streetztalk.net Streetz

      Ugh@ Baby Momma. Can we get a name change or come up with some other terminology?

      ^^

      No

  • http://musicmakesmehigh.wordpress.com Reecie

    One thing I CANNOT stand is being disrespected. I would have to walk away. A man that won't step up and shut sh*t down, is disrespecting me and our relationship. How you gonna be afraid of this chick?! if she's crazy, I can get crazy back but that is HIS SITUATION to handle! Some buds are overdue to be nipped.

    I know some people and some things so I'd def would be trying to PROVE that she's behind the stuff going on. In the meanwhile, if he doesn't believe me and questions my theories, we can't be together.

    I do agree with other commenters that she seems to feel scorned and if she wasn't such a bitter psycho b*tch they probably could talk about it like mature adults–but then again they don't seem to be that mature…

    • Starita34

      THIS!! "A man that won’t step up and shut sh*t down, is disrespecting me and our relationship."

      It's not about BM! It's about my man not having my back, with whomever! Let him handle finding "proof" and whether BM is crazy or not, she's his issue. Your relationship, him, and the baby are your only concerns, if he's not carrying his weight, putting the responsibility of dealing with BM on you? Vapors.

  • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

    I think you, and the commenters, have hit all the key highlights. I've never dealt with 'baby daddy' drama despite dating many women with kids so I'm not sure if I have any advice to offer. I'll only repeat what many have said already: The baby mama is going to be in the picture for life because of the kid.

    While I do think she should see if the father is ever going to address these issues, chances arrrrrre the baby mama isnt going to suddenly pull a 180 and become drama free simply because he confronts her. If anything, assuming she is the source of all this drama, she might become more covert in her "attacks."

    It's one of those simply complicated questions. Hope for the best and plan for the worse. If nothing changed, "Is he worth it?"

  • Tiffany In Houston

    I'd walk and not give him or his baby mama a second glance. The LW is too young to have to deal with that kind of BS. Seriously. If he was going to check the BM, he would have already done so.

    Ya'll haven't even graduated yet!!!!! Get out of school, get established, start living your life already. There are plenty of men (of all shapes, sizes and colors) that don't have that kind of baggage that you would have to deal with.

    Baby girl, you need to move around. I guarantee the hurt won't last too long and you'll soon be on to the next.

  • http://www.threewaystotakeit.com/ Slimuel L. Jackson

    Fortunately, I don't have a child and if I do the mother(s) will have a hard time finding me on Facebook…

    I'm kinda kidding.

    In all seriousness, she needs to tell her booski that the nut (mother of seed) stops here. I can understand the guy being in a tough spot and not really knowing what to do. But in this case, she needs to tell him exactly what needs to happen. He will do one of the following:

    Say okay and follow up with the mean mama.

    Debate with his girl on how it should be handled and probably explain some things about the baby mama that he didn't before

    Do nothing at all.

    If he does the 3rd, it's time to call it quits. I'm guessing she's no older than 22 or 23 (Late Registration), so there's too much life left to live to be going through this when she's about to begin the next chapter.

  • http://redlady821.wordpress.com/ RedLady821

    Streetzie, great advice but I think that the boyfriend is scared. Sometimes men just don't know how to function or navigate certain areas of their lives. I'm sure he will have to confront the situation eventually but right now I think he's just trying to get through his day to day without pulling his head out of the sand too often.

    Not sure of the answer for that one. I wish them both luck.

    • http://www.streetztalk.net Streetz

      You DO think or Dont think he's scared homie?

      • http://redlady821.wordpress.com/ RedLady821

        I DO think he's scared. Very scared.

        • http://www.streetztalk.net Streetz

          I think he is too. Thats why i said she has his heart. Check my lexicon to SoFlyy lol

  • http://www.streetztalk.net Streetz

    You know,

    After reading the comments, I didn't really think to decipher whether they were still messing (BF and Baby Moms).

    You know I don't put it past him, but the way I interpreted the situation, she thought shorty would be a temp relationship, and now that she knows its official, she wants to hate.

    Either way, no one is squeaky clean in this, and it has to be solved before it's escalated to a crazy level

    • Psyche

      I can see the short term interpretation. However I think it would be easier to believe that if gf and bf only been together 6-9 months and BM starting to realize its official. For them to be together 2 years….thats a long time for BMs to continue to hate without anything else going on.

      • http://www.streetztalk.net Streetz

        Touche!

    • NinaFontaine

      You know what Streetz – in re-reading I just thought of something else the GF said "My boyfriend and I randomly met on our college campus through one of his fraternity brothers. I’d just recently gotten out of a nasty break up and he himself had just had a child so we both knew we were emotionally unavailable."

      Was she the side piece turned love of his life????? If so, I'm not saying the BM is justified but I understand a tad!

  • cynicaloptimist

    *faithful lurker approaches the mic*

    ehem…Good morning, SBM fam. Love the blog! Just a few thoughts to share…

    Men are bottom-line people who MUST have hard evidence to completely cut off women that they are soft on for whatever reason (kid, guilt, history, etc.). If you really believe the relationship is worth it, you may need to buckle your seat belt and ride this crazy train until BM eventually slips up and proves she's a psycho. And, trust me, if what you believe about her is true, SHE WILL SLIP UP!!! I'm typing from experience…

    Totally diff details yet the same coo-coo results… My bf had a DL stalker posing as a "close friend" (we both knew her). They'd crossed the friend line in the past, she expressed her love for him, he told her it wasn't happening, she agreed to just being friends, benefits were cut, remained friends…end of story. Or, it should have been. She tried to scare girls off/discourage girls from liking him. He didn't really trip on it cause she was usually overreacting anyway (the girl didn't actually like him and he wasn't interested in the girl). Then, when she caught wind that he and I were a bit more than FWBs or a fling, she started asking him questions about "us"…he wouldn't tell her anything cause of how he knew she felt. He told me about her questions and told me she actually liked him and the story behind it (some of it). Long story short, the more she realized we were getting close, the more her antics escalated (confronting me to discourage me from liking him, being more clingy with him, etc.). I kept telling him she WAS NOT interested in simply being his friend and that if he didn't want her in that way, he needed to cut her off…cause now she was disturbing my peace! He wouldn't do it. He thought they could maintain the friendship. Her sporadic incidents weren't too bad and they didn't happen too often. "She's not a bad person." Then, 3 mths later (right after we'd made our rela official), she popped up at my house unannounced one day when we were chilling and…let's just say it turned into a crazy episode of Jerry Springer/Maury Povich/Boxing After Dark, lol…I can laugh now. 😉 Needless to say, he needs no more proof that they CANNOT be friends…cordial, yes. Friends? Hell naw! He did what he had to do.

    If it's worth it, wait for the proof. It will come. And, he will do the right thing.

    The downside is that the drama does put a damper on the rela. But, let's face it. You submitted the email cause your love for him won't let you just walk away. If that weren't the case, you woulda chucked the deuces after she allegedly broke in your car!!! You've got to resolve this within yourself and get to a solid place. Refuse to allow her antics to control your future! Don't give her that power! He and I WOULD NOT discuss her. When we were together, she didn't exist. She only came up in convo when she was acting out. That helped us to keep reality in perspective…we were fine and outside interference was our problem. Don't make her problem YOUR problem.

    Once things settled down (after the climax and a few uncomfortable aftershocks), we were able to live in drama-free bliss! Would I have chosen to deal with that mess if I'd known I'd go through all that? Umm…no, lol. But, I wouldn't have experienced what we share now either. And I'm VERY happy experiencing what we share…

    I hope this was helpful. Good day to all you fine people! :-)

    *exits stage right*

    • http://www.streetztalk.net Streetz

      Welcome out of Lurkington! Excellent comment! Stop by more often!

      • cynicaloptimist

        Thanks! :-)

        I just hope that people realize that true psychos don't understand or listen to sound logic, lol. If BM is really a nut job, you can't just tell her to stop…she won't listen. And she'll deny any accusations without solid proof…making confronting her very difficult. If she's really pressed over him to the degree that it's unhealthy, she WILL lie, cheat, and steal to chase GF away! My bf (nice guy to a fault) had to treat our culprit like a stranger for her to get it…cause she took any kindness from him as fuel for her hope (hope that he'd eventually want a rela with her). And unfortunately, her BF can't treat BM like that cause of the baby. And, I'm certain BM is taking his inaction (to keep things civil) as fuel to continue ("maybe he's beginning to see how much I care"). Her BF is in a bit of a pickle…loves GF and scared of what BM will do if pushed too far due to more rejection from him.

        I hope things get better for them…

  • http://thebookofjackson.blogspot.com Dr. J

    Alright, while moonlighting as an intellectual on the internet, I have to remind you guys that i'm a negro from DC.

    #1 question – How she got in the car? She broke in the joint? You said she went in the car and vandalized some shoes and put them back? That's odd. A real b*tch would have just taken the car, or left it on flats.

    #2 question – Is this dude Black? Because if so, sound like he ain't trying to have his baby mother acting a fool. People be sleeping on chicks these days. Chicks will call the cops on you saying you ain't pay child support over nothing. That gets dudes shook in the game. They won't even leave their house or apply for a new job because they scared their baby mother gonna act a fool. That's why they just be shaking their head. Most dudes on the struggle look at the situation as, "I shoulda never got that girl pregnant" they don't think about what to do now. I understand we got a lot of advice on how dude should have carried it, but in reality that's just not how dudes are. I had a situation like this in my own family, people had it out, aunts asked my aunt straight up, "Why do you keep calling the cops on him when he trying to get his life together?" Her response, "Because I just don't like him." That's real. Trust me on that. A lot of women on this blog right now, got a few negroes they ain't never going to like for no reason but they did them wrong and their feelings was involved.

    • GirlSixx

      [“Why do you keep calling the cops on him when he trying to get his life together?” Her response, “Because I just don’t like him.]

      Lmaooooooo

      That's Terrible!!!! *Cracking Up*

    • sanen85

      So, she's calling the cops on him based on him not paying child support? If not, what is it she's trying to charge him with? I ask because neither of my sister's BD pay child support and she isn't able to call the cops on them for that. She's called the cops on one for busting up her car and they barely paid her any attention.

      • http://thebookofjackson.blogspot.com Dr. J

        It depends on the way its set up. If a man is smart he'll pay through the courts via EFT. Sometimes they let you walk away with the agreement to pay on your own. My uncle was paying his in his own way, like negroes do. Basically, he was like i'll pay for everything the kid needs, clothes, school, supplies, and field trips… So it wasn't really like once a month a check. That's what normally be happening.

        She wanna get all official on a dude, and that's when things got real.

        • sanen85

          My sister has taken both of these men to court (as she's on state assistance, they basically forced her to). I guess the law is just different here. *shrugs*

          On another note, I understand that a lot of men are paranoid (and with good reason) about their funds going to the wrong thing, but I don't necessarily feel that covering those type of needs (clothes, school supplies, etc) is enough unless he's paying for private school tuition. What about things like food, rent, gas to get him to school, etc. I mean if she's paying all those day to day living expenses, and he pops up to buy school clothes once a year or throw a little on a school trip, something isn't adding up here. Just my .02

        • RCTuri

          I ALWAYS advise men to pay through the court system. Anything extra that they pay is up to them and of course definitely for the benefit of the child. A man could go on paying from day one, the woman could jump up and take him to court for child support and he'll owe up to his neck in arrears.

  • http://gravatar.com/insertwittyacronym insertwittyacronym

    Is she paranoid? yeah she is being paranoid…but just cause you're paranoid does not mean that they are not out to get her. but honestly the idea she believes egregious acts are being thrown her way a regular basis does sound drama filled. but these days people enjoy having haters. smh

    "He acknowledges the fact that his son’s mother goes out of her way to make his life miserable," I'm not sure I understand this statement. I thought BM was making gf life miserable? in any case why is gf considering integrating her life with a person who has no backbone? but the crux of the situation is gf convenient historical re-write: her 2 yr relationship with a guy who has a BM with a toddler that gf adores. Hmmph…maybe BM takes issue to having her child around some random unbestfriendsexwhenwefeellikeitbutreturntobestfriend? (there are so many sides to this story) In any case, good advice streez! She needs to have a talk with BF before this becomes another episode of Snapped (although I love that show and they are always looking for more stories :)

  • http://twitter.com/lhautevie Little Miss Sunshine

    nooooope. nope.nope.nooope. nope.

    It's ish like this that gives dating people with kids a bad name! She needs to let her boyfriend know that this is unacceptable and some boundaries need to be set. If he can't do that she needs to just step away. If they have a toddler he's been working the bm/bd relationship long enough to know how it's going to affect his relationship and he needs to say something or forever be disrespected.

    and don't get me started if he's still sleeping with the woman… i just cannot.

  • http://[email protected] LiveLoveSing

    Streetz, I think you gave her great advice and the comments here follow up on that. The only thing I will say is that all of this is a lot easier said then done. The writer prefaced the situation with all of that good stuff in the beginning to basically say that leaving is going to be her LAST resort. It's clear that she wants to keep the relationship no matter what, which is dangerous. It's really easy to tell someone to leave a troublesome situation; actually going ahead and doing it is an entirely different thing. If she decides he isn't worth it, I still think she is going to have a hard time convincing herself to cut him loose. I just hope that if he indeed does nothing, she doesn't keep finding reasons to stay. A lot of times women don't believe they can do better, but as great as he seems now, if he won't defend her honor in from of BM then the GF need not settle.

  • Starita34

    Regardless of baby mama – do you want a man that stands idly by while you're being harassed and tormented by anyone else?

    Sister girl, he's got too much going on and you are simply not a priority. Get some business of your own and let him figure his ish out. I know it's much easier said than done, but when you gotta say, "He's such a good man and we're best friends and if only he gave a crap about me and my feelings he'd be perfect" O_@ it's not in the cards. No one is perfect and a lot of things can be forgiven in the name of love, but both parties need to be willing to put in work. He feels that this is his punishment? Ok, so why are you the one being punished? And eff! How long must he you be punished!?

    You know the answer, you already said you can't do this long term. You don't wanna leave and I get it, but you've got to. This can't be life. Crazy doesn't fade, she'll still be there in 2, 5, 10 years and then you'll really not wanna leave cause you're so deeply invested. Let him know that you need him to make you a priority or you're leaving. Give him a chance to make good. And if he can't, out on your big girl panties and say your goodbyes.

  • http://www.shesoflyy.wordpress.com Muze

    i'm late and haven't read many comments, but um… this is a classic case of "i'm still sleeping with my BM."

    it's pretty obvious. if it was bothering him or if he knew she was in the wrong, he'd have checked her behavior long ago. a year? come on now. lol. he's definitely still sleeping with her. might as well push him back her way and let them be a happily dysfunctional (bc he's obviously one foot in, one foot out) family. lol.

    • NinaFontaine

      exactly and did anyone else catch on to her stating “My boyfriend and I randomly met on our college campus through one of his fraternity brothers. I’d just recently gotten out of a nasty break up and he himself had just had a child so we both knew we were emotionally unavailable.” (i put under a earlier comment) Was he still with the BM then?

    • http://twitter.com/slimjackson Slimuel L. Jackson

      "i’m late and haven’t read many comments, but um…"

      "I'm late" is usually how these problems start in the first place.

      • Starita34

        http://bit.ly/dVmqen

        *faints* I'm through!

        • http://twitter.com/slimjackson Slimuel L. Jackson

          I swear that sometimes you use a link bot that auto-populates the reply box with something hilarious. hahaha

        • Starita34

          You know how men have a folder of p*rn on their computer so that they can always have easy access? Well I have a folder of GIFs and p*rn in mine, just in case…you can only hear "lol" and "lmao" so many times – THAT was too funny for some "lol", that deserved the Chairman. :-p

      • http://www.shesoflyy.wordpress.com Muze

        LOL no, "no condom tonight baby, pleeease." or some variation, is usually how they start.

        • TWIsM81

          Naw. It's usually "Just the tip, I promise" that gets people caught up.

  • RCTuri

    It's his job to put the BM in her place. If he's afraid of repercussions from her in relation to his child, he should consult legal support.

    His avoidance of the situation would definitely arouse my suspicion. A toddler needs a lot of caring for and it's also more likely for people to reconcile when their children are that young. There is a high probability that this man will end up back with his ex. Also, like a prior commenter said, she's just his GF, not a fiancee or wife. He's probably not going to go HAM on his BM because of some phone calls from a blocked number and especially without proof.

    WHY does the BM have his GF's number anyway? Her info should never have been made available to the BM. This also makes it seem like there's more going on than home girl is willing to admit. It seems like she believes his denouncement of the BM somehow solidifies her role in his life. She wants validation and he's not giving it. If his kid is the reason why he isn't confronting the BM, the GF needs to know that this is a battle she is NOT going to win.

    There's a delicate balance in between making sure your current partner feels respected and the other parent of your child doesn't feel disrespected, and the reverse. Having a toddler on top of that just adds to the intensity.

    If the child's mother IS acting a fool like this this, then she deserves the title of BM. A BM is about HIS business a single mother is about HER OWN business.

    Ole boy and BM need to either patch it up, or be single for a while until they are truly over it. Focus on the kid.

  • lynx

    @smart girl fox I don't agree. With that type of mentality is why laws have been changed to help men. Sh*t happens, sometimes ppl are just a moment in your life and the condom pops. Alot of ppl dont know plan B is now over the counter. Birth control doesn't work on some women. Men can prove women are unfit want to know how?! If they are on welfare more than 2yrs with no education or showing signs of improvement to better their lives. My cousin played that card and got awarded full custody!

    My friends baby momma made his life a living hell. She was just some easy p*ssy he got caught up, chick had to have 3 men tested for paternity, I was there with him so I know. She had no shame or remorse and had been lying to all 3 men, and had a 4th dude she knew damn well wasnt thee father sign the birth certificate. When the test came back he was the father. He put himself on childsupport thru ocss. Once a man is put on childd support involuntarily or voluntary he doesn't have to be there. If a woman has a child HER CHOICE, women aare quick to scream and tell a dude u can't make me have a abortion. Ok since u want to try and trap with a baby take this child support and good riddance.

    Ppl scream its unfair to the child well THE PRIMARY CAREGIVER the mother shldve thought of that! You can't use children as pawns to keep someone. And with that statement u made you are basically saying that. Bcuz a dude got caught up with some scandelous broad he has to suffer all his life. WRONG! Its so many men out there exercising their rights of waiving parental rights or just paying and being done. Ppl don't have to put up with bullsht bcuz a unwanted child was a womans way of a meal ticket.

    Men have rights too! Although I respect your opinion I don't agree.

    • GirlSixx

      "She had no shame or remorse and had been lying to all 3 men, and had a 4th dude she knew damn well wasnt thee father sign the birth certificate. When the test came back he was the father."

      Ratchedness!!!! *smdh*

      I think I saw this episode though. *MauryPovichTypeShyte*

      Good Post.

    • Kema

      "Birth control doesn’t work on some women. "

      I would like to know the percentage on that one.

      "If a woman has a child HER CHOICE, women aare quick to scream and tell a dude u can’t make me have a abortion. "

      Guys are quick to say this but it could all be avoided with condoms. I'm a little weary of people using abortion as a means of birth control. When indulging act like abortion is out of the question.

      • CPT Callamity

        She has 18 different forms to choose from…one better work…

      • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

        I am very wary of abortion as a form of birth control…

  • http://www.streetztalk.net Streetz

    HOUSEKEEPING ITEM!

    Please clean up the language. If you curse or put in words that will be flagged, your comment goes into moderation. We won't be accomoating with the commen cleanup forever!

    • Starita34

      *looks down sheepishly*

      My bad, I forget that p0rn is a "bad word"…

  • lynx

    Kema I disagree…im married to a man that has a child and that child has nothing to do with me. I don't want the responsibility of raising a child that isn't mine or being responsible for a child that isn't mine. I've raised my child and im not playing step mother to anyone, that is my choice. Bcuz I don't want drama with his hood ass baby momma, that child does not come to our house. He pays child support and sees her when he wants to see that child not when its forced upon him. I told him frm jump that shit is your past and has nothing to do with me. He didn't assist raising my 18yr old so what do I look like raising a step child when im done with kids?! Everyone has a choice! He cldve said well if u don't want to deal with my child we can't get married I wldve said ok, peace. Life is too short to deal with bullshit and baggage that doesn't pertain to me. What man wants to deal with a woman wit h 2 or more kids?! What man wants a instant family when he doesn't have 1 child?! That's not fair to the man. If women valued their bodies and made wise choices in the men they slept with they wldnt be a baby momma they wld be a wife.

    • Starita34

      *looks at the screen slack jawed and wide-eyed*

      Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but your idea of a relationship and mine vary greatly and I'll leave it at that.

    • RCTuri

      The child doesn't come to your house because you say so? Or does the child's mom say he/she cannot?

    • GirlSixx

      You made some valid points in this post because let's face it some men on here SBM have said they rather NOT deal with a chick with kids or marry into an already made family so if they can say that why can't you???

      I was going to ask you a similar question along what RCTuri asked, but I'll just read your response to her.

      Sidenote: Judging from your 1st comment I thought you were a male typing that post.

      *JudgingAPostbyIt'sCover* Mybadd

  • lynx

    Telly long legs im sorry but I don't agree with your opinion. I respect your opinion but let's be honest here are u going to give a man a chance with 6 kids and 4 different baby mommas and has never been married? Are u going to do for all 6 of those kids like your own and tolerate all 4 of his baby mommas acting a nut?! I already know the answer. Alot of y'all will thump what's right but at the end of the day aren't being realistic or rational and are hypocrites. A man/woman shld accept the package deal but disregard their tires being slashed, unnecessary drama, etc, etc.. no im sorry I just don't agree…everyone on here has a OPINION but no one is right or wrong. Its up to the individual persons dealing with the situation on what they decide to do, bcuz what they eat isn't going to make you fat.. ppl gotta do what's best for them in the life they live either u agree or don't agree but whether someone chooses or denies to accept the package deal, how is that hurting you?

    alot of ppl are hi-5ing the concept of the package deal bcuz 1 they are a package deal or 2 never experienced baby momma/daddy drama.

    Just my opinion

    • Starita34

      *butts into convo*

      You're right, I'm not going to "do for all 6 of those kids like [my] own and tolerate all 4 of his baby mommas acting a nut" which is why I couldn't date that man. I choose not to date men with several children, several mothers of their children, and/or poor relationships with the mother of their children because in my household we will be a family. I have dated several men with a child and once I commit myself to that man for life (i.e. get married), now we have a child, no his and hers, only ours.

      IMO, parents are absolutely a package deal-if he doesn't believe that, then he's not the man for me because his parenting priorities and mine do not align. I need a father for my children (when I have them), not a guy that will parent them as long as he's hitting mama and if we split he's relieved of his duties. No ma'am. Good fathers are sexy and important, men that think parenting is optional and only flash pics of the kids to get the panties get no love from me.

      • http://ladyngo.blogspot.com Lady Ngo

        AMEN @Starita34!

        I also find it amusing yet sad that so many people are placing all the blame of dudes having crazy baby mamas on the baby mama. To be honest i think its a 75/25 split when it comes to blame in these kind of situations. Yeah, the baby mama might be hood, crazy, easy p***y, or whatever but um…perhaps if the BD had kept it in his pants he wouldn't have "6 kids from 4 crazy baby mamas" Its especially sad to me to hear women talking about "well girls should be more selective in who they have sex with"- not because i don't agree cuz trust me i do, but because to what standard/level of accountability are we holding the men? Women don't create babies by themselves. And no offense, but any woman (especially if you're already a parent yourself) thats in support of a man just writing a check…you get a side-eye from me. Children they need parents, a mother AND an active father, not child support checks from a nameless and faceless donor.

        • Starita34

          "Children they need parents, a mother AND an active father, not child support checks from a nameless and faceless donor."

          #TooMuchLikeRight

      • TellyLongLegs

        **hi-fives Star**

        You can't tell me seeing a guy taking care of his son/daughter ain't sexy. 

        • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

          I keep saying that life is not fair… I think well of a single father handling is business… But not a single mom… I am like girl you are supposed to be off the market…

          #JustSaying

    • TellyLongLegs

      Lynx, I respect your opinion and as you stated we are all entitled to one. Just to make sure we’re on the same page. I am in no shape or form telling anyone to mess around with someone who has x amount of kids with x amount of  BMs/BDs. I’ve never dealt with BM/BD drama and don’t plan on it either. My whole point was that when anyone deals with someone that has a child, understand or put in the back of your mind that they are a package deal. For example, if a situation arises and the child gets sick a good parent will put their child/children first a.k.a before the boyfriend/girlfriend. That’s what a good parent should/would do. I do not encourage anyone to be in any type of relationship where there is whole lot of drama ESPECIALLY when there’s kids involved. I do not believe that any woman/man should deal with the slashing of his/her tires or unnecessary drama at all, no matter the issue. But I do believe that although it is not YOUR responsibility to raise your woman’s/man’s child understand that the child WILL be in the picture some type of way, IF that’s’ a good parent.

       

      I’m not hi-fiving a package deal because I am a baby momma (since I don’t have any children) but because I respect the role that a father/mother plays in their child’s lives. If I were to enter a relationship with a man that has a child, I would accept that he has a child and tell him that I do NOT deal with BM drama.

       

      Also, at the end of the day anyone can do whatever they want whenever they want however they want. It really doesn’t affect me. If someone brings something up (in a public setting or to me directly) and I feel the need to respond I will, but if the person decides to continue doing whatever he she wants to do with their life, then so be it.

      • Starita34

        "I’m not hi-fiving a package deal because I am a baby momma (since I don’t have any children) but because I respect the role that a father/mother plays in their child’s lives."

        *shakes my tambourine, no Eve.*

        Not only do I respect it, I admire it and demand it from a life partner.

      • TellyLongLegs

        Excuse the typos. I'm at work AND typing on my iPhone.

    • Kema

      "alot of ppl are hi-5ing the concept of the package deal bcuz 1 they are a package deal or 2 never experienced baby momma/daddy drama."

      Well I guess I am fortunate to say that I have experienced both but still hi-five the concept of the package deal. I couldnt imagine being married to a man and not being a part of that significant part of his life. And vice versa I couldnt imagine him not being a part of mine. Now I probably wouldnt marry a man with too much BM drama because I know that I would be involved.

  • Larry

    I think some of us are jumping to some premature conclusions on the BF in question (then again that's what we all do when stating an opinion w/o all the facts, right?). I believe many of us commentors are quick to possibly confuse the BF being scared vs. being ambivalent or apathetic to the situation. Basically, he obviously sees it as an issue, but not on the same scale as his GF, especially when it's pretty hard to "check" someone that technically hasn't been caught doing anything wrong. Odds are yes, the BM probably did all of those things, but how far can you go with the accusation and not cause up a larger stir to the situation. If he did check his BM and everyone believes the BM is bat-ish crazy, do you think that will really resolve the problem or give the BM more incentive to double her efforts?

    I think Streetz gave good advice for the most part. To me the most logical thing to do (although, maybe not realistic) is for all 3 parties to sit down and discuss the situation as a whole like grown adults. State concerns and assumptions and come up with some sort of an understanding/solution. Also, I think the GF should definitely continue with the relationship at least for a bit longer. The reason I say that is that it appears her and her BF are still in college and presumably still live the college lifestyle. Once everyone graduates and moves away and begins "real life" then the situation may change….but then again, maybe it won't.

  • KaytieDyd

    Sounds to me like there were RED FLAGS being waved all over the place….

    "I’d just recently gotten out of a nasty break up and he himself had just had a child so we both knew we were emotionally unavailable."

    You knew you were emotionally unavailable, yet you both pursued the relationship anyway. He had a brand new baby, with that, comes a brand new mom, who if I had to guess…had visions of them being a family. You came along and threw a kink in her "house with a picket fence" dream. Let the grudge begin.

    "I’m under the impression she felt that I was just a fling, and now that she sees it’s more, she’s on some guerilla warfare type ish."

    She may have been willing to wait out what she thought was just a fling, but when yall got serious, that just confirmed to her there would be no "happy little family" for the 3 of them. I don't think he was honest with the mother of his child from the beginning, and the grudge has now grown into an extremely hurt single mom…hence the acting out. I agree with everyone else, I think he was probably still with the mother, as the new GF was making her way into the picture.

    "He has a wonderful toddler whom I adore"

    No matter how craaaazy she is acting, and how wrong the things she is doing are…you are an outsider who is now in contact with her child. She is and will always be that Mama Bear protecting her cub.

    "He acknowledges the fact that his son’s mother goes out of her way to make his life miserable."

    His life miserable? His life isn't being made miserable, therefore, he is acknowledging nothing. If I close my eyes it doesn't exist…coward. I doubt it is possible, but if the two women could sit down and talk without arguing, they would both probably find out a lot of information neither one of them were aware of–put a timeline together! That will let the GF know if he is worth it or not. If things turn out okay…the Mama Bear can maybe even get to know the GF better and be comfortable with her around the cub.

    I would love to hear his side of things…If I had to guess, I'd say both gals are mad at the wrong person! Typical

  • http://www.amazon.com/His-Baby-Mama-Groupies-ebook/dp/B004R9QI1K/ref=cm_cr-mr-title Kayenne

    Interesting post. I just released an ebook called His Baby Mama as a tribute to the women who have to deal with baby mama issues.

    The man needs to come to some sort of understanding with his BM and cut out all the drama. The BM seems to have feelings for her Baby Daddy so regardless of who he's dating, she's going to have issues with them.

  • http://codecipher.blogspot.com MeteorMan

    Good post!

    You know what though. I think homie is messing up. I read that people think he's not reacting b/c she has no proof. Eff that… Ol' girl been coming at him about this for a year?!?! C'mon… If my girl is telling me something over and over then I would believe there's some sort of truth to it and investigate.

    As a man, it comes a time when you have to make the position of your GF clear to the other women around you. Especially when they're used to having domain for a period of time (and a child). Otherwise, they'll slick disrespect your relationship b/c they'll think that they still have domain. Women can be possessive. He doesn't have to accuse his child's mother. Just be clear on her role and his GF's position. Tell her to cooperate. One should have such a conversation anyway when you bring new people around your child.

    • http://www.sheliagoss.com Shelia Goss

      MeteorMan, I agree with you. It's up to the man to lay down some boundaries and let the BM know her position…otherwise, if she still has feelings for him, she will continue to be disrespectful.

      "As a man, it comes a time when you have to make the position of your GF clear to

      the other women around you. Especially when they're used to having domain for a

      period of time (and a child). Otherwise, they'll slick disrespect your

      relationship b/c they'll think that they still have domain."

      • Larry

        I agree with this sentiment. He does have to lay boundaries. But who is to say that he has not done so already and the BM is in fact acting out in this manner because he initially let her know "what it is". I would have to assume if they have in fact been dating for 2 years, as the young lady described in her letter ,then I would believe it would have been made fairly clear and voiced what position you have with your GF vs. BM. I'm going to have to believe that he indeed looked into the first few initial claims, but like the GF said, the BF couldn't find any proof beyond a reasonable doubt, but probably still told BM what the situation is for clarity. Or maybe not, who knows.

        What did Chris Rock say in one of his stand ups? "Whatever happened to just plain crazy?!"

        the BM could just be plain crazy and there is no level of "talkin to", rational , or boundary laying that is going to combat that easily short of a physical altercation and we all know that's ALL the way bad.

        At any rate, laying down boudaries is the simple idea, but maybe just not as easy at it sounds due to external factors beyond anyone's control (see: craziness)

        • cynicaloptimist

          "What did Chris Rock say in one of his stand ups? “Whatever happened to just plain crazy?!”

          the BM could just be plain crazy and there is no level of “talkin to”, rational , or boundary laying that is going to combat that easily short of a physical altercation and we all know that’s ALL the way bad.

          At any rate, laying down boudaries is the simple idea, but maybe just not as easy at it sounds due to external factors beyond anyone’s control (see: craziness)"

          I think it's hard for rational people to really believe this level of crazy is possible without just cause. But, we already know what the just cause was from the letter…BM didn't realize she was a jump off till BD moved on to new GF. Could we fault BD for playing slick with BM? Yup. Should BD be eternally penalized for finding true love with GF? Nope. Is it plausible that BM is still salty that she now realizes she was just a jump off in BDs eyes two years later? LOL! Absolutley! Prob gets a bit saltier about it every time she glances at his little mini-me and remembers they aren't raising her as a couple! BD doesn't need to sleep with BM to set her off…that's enough!

    • cynicaloptimist

      "If my girl is telling me something over and over then I would believe there’s some sort of truth to it and investigate."

      I'm sure he already believes this. But, that doesn't make the solution simple. This difficult BM has custody of his child in a society that does NOT side with fathers! He needs to make smart choices regarding how he deals with BM…especially if she's off. It sucks…but its real. It doesn't mean he doesn't love or respect his GF. It does mean that he's concerned about how all this will play out as he attempts to remain a part of his child's life…as he should be.

  • lynx

    Rtcuri bcuz WE SAID SO. HE AGREED TO IT BCUZ I stated from jump I did not want any dealings with that child. the baby mother doesn't knw me and I don't know her. Its no point in us knowing each other. This isn't abt my situation and is digressing from the topic, I don't have issues bcuz that child isn't a factor in our household me and my husband share.

    As for birth control methods…all methods don't work on all women, so a woman is supposed to experiment with her body until she finds the right one cpt callamity but abortion can't be a option? A woman can gamble with her body altering hormones but its wrong for abortions?!

    Like I stated….everyone can feel what they but at the end of the day how is this effecting your life if u chose not to live it? U can't condemn anyone for their beliefs until u walked a mile in their shoes and even then u know what….u still can't because its their choice! Lol ppl finger point all day long and want to get self righteous but its always the man that is blamed. How about women being more accountable?! A man can't have sex with u raw if u don't allow him to! SO THEREFORE U DID MAKE THE BABY BY YOURSELF WHEN U SURRENDERED YOUR BODY TO BE IN A UNPROTECTED SEX ACT! A man wont do anything YOU (women) don't allow him to do. But its the mans fault u got pregnant?

    Like cpt callamity said its 18 methods of b.c so its no excuse. See ppl will say one thing but thn u get exposed for being a hypocrite. U believe in package deals but u wldnt date one. That's like saying Im a vegan but I love fur coats! Lol smh no wonder we can't ever get organized like other races..

    • TellyLongLegs

      "A man can't have sex with u raw if u don't allow him to! SO THEREFORE U DID MAKE THE BABY BY YOURSELF WHEN U SURRENDERED YOUR BODY TO BE IN A UNPROTECTED SEX ACT!"

      So because you let a man go in raw you made the baby by yourself? o_O

    • Starita34

      http://gifsoup.com/MTIzNTc I can only hope to be as #Successful after takin my lead…

      "See ppl will say one thing but thn u get exposed for being a hypocrite. U believe in package deals but u wldnt date one. That’s like saying Im a vegan but I love fur coats!"

      Let me say that it's because I believe in the package deal that I choose not date packages that I can not handle. #KnowThyselfNIsh I'm a vegan that simply doesn't like celery. Just because I choose vegan doesn't mean I gotta eat all the veggies, ya heard?

    • sanen85

      "U can’t condemn anyone for their beliefs until u walked a mile in their shoes and even then u know what….u still can’t because its their choice! Lol ppl finger point all day long and want to get self righteous but its always the man that is blamed."

      See, I got to this part and everything fell apart for me. It feels like for someone advocating for people to stop tossing blameand judging others, that's all I'm feeling out of these posts.

      It is a scientific and biological FACT that women can't get pregnant on their own (sperm is always a necessity), so I feel that it's a little silly trying to suggest otherwise.

      • Eddie Brock

        It is a scientific and biological FACT that women can’t get pregnant on their own (sperm is always a necessity), so I feel that it’s a little silly trying to suggest otherwise.

        What about…..

        http://faithfool.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/whit

        • Starita34

          Whether you're talking to me or not – THAT was funny! lol

  • lynx

    Starita 34 teell that to the women who soley want child support bcuz they are bitter. See I work for the welfare office and those women don't care abt the man being there. They just want more foodstamps, tanf, and section 8 not saying all but 65% of the cases do. Then u have the 20% whose fathers support the child and the mother needs a little extra due to unemplymnt and she can't get help bcuz she dsnt want to put a great father on child support in order to get that help she needs. And the last 15% are men who are truly deadbeats! Out of 100% african american men on child support voluntary or involuntary is 64% so what's that saying abt other races of women? They get married and value their bodies more or they have more sense than black women? Which one is it?

    • Starita34

      Laudy, laudy! First-you work for the State? *hugs you and gives you a knowing head nod* I know your struggle, I know your struggle.

      Next, I wish I knew what you were asking me to tell those ladies…I'm going to assume that you're talking about me cosigning Lady Ngo's statement “Children they need parents, a mother AND an active father, not child support checks from a nameless and faceless donor.” Going off this assumption, let me say that monetary child support is necessary. It's a fact that kids cost money, a lot of money. But money alone will not raise a child and is not adequate parenting IMO. That statement was not "anti child support", it was "pro active parenting". There's a distinct difference. Furthermore, there are some *ahem* ladies that will withhold children from a man, not allowing him to father but are quick to still accept the check from the courts monthly. That is what I'm side-eyeing. Children are not paychecks, children are not pawns to get a man to love you, children are not to trap a man, children are not to be used as revenge or punishment. Children need love, encouragement, boundaries, stability and parents. That's all I was saying.

      "Then u have the 20% whose fathers support the child and the mother needs a little extra due to unemplymnt and she can’t get help bcuz she dsnt want to put a great father on child support in order to get that help she needs."

      Child support is not punishment! It's a fact of life, raising children costs money. The cash contribution is the least a parent can do. And I mean, least! As a mother, I can love and appreciate the good father all day long, but we're not even together (in your scenario), our child comes first – you WILL be on child support.

      "Out of 100% african american men on child support voluntary or involuntary is 64% so what’s that saying abt other races of women? They get married and value their bodies more or they have more sense than black women? Which one is it?"

      We're really making mass generalizations about entire racial communities based on the segment of African American males on child support? I have no tangible opinion on those stats. 1) I have no prior knowledge of this statistic, 2) regardless, I don't think it would be representative of a whole race and 3) I don't understand your actual question.

      I can however tell you that in my experience; premarital sex is had, babies are made out of wedlock, abortions are received, and children are given up for adoption in every single race that I've had contact with, for whatever that's worth.

  • lynx

    Starita hit dog yells first.
    adonis….u and a couple other dudes on here are the only onese making sense. I guess my view point are so harsh and truthful bcuz I come from a family that has zero tolerance, low divorce rate, and my parents were married when I was born.

    Ppl gripe over what im saying but how come women aren't saying we need to be more accoutable for our actions?!!

    Telly long legz thinks its asinine for a man not be held responsible for a baby he didn't want
    bcuz the mother didn't demand to protect herself and respect her own body! As someone earlier stated "to thine ownself be true.." its like my father said if I don't make a man respect me or my body why shld he?!! If woman set the respect bar high it wldnt be such a baby momma epidemic…why bcuz a woman wldnt allow herself to be catergorized as such. No one wants to talk abt women being accountable! Smh

    • Starita34

      Oh. You speak Adonis? My bad. As you were.

      • TWIsM81

        ActuaLOL!

    • TellyLongLegs

       Don't presume to know what I think because that's asinine. 

       As Sane mentioned, scientifically you need sperm AND an egg to have a baby. So if a man says "let me go in without a condom" and a woman says yes, BOTH parties are responsible for that child because they know what happens when u engage in sexual intercourse . So WTH are you talking about?

    • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

      Well, thanks… I guess…

      Again, I need to care less about my dissenters… that is my real immature thorn in my side… I will take the thorn out soon…

      For the women who had kids, and find themselves single & on the market, need to help the women who are coming up to make better decisions…

      Not cover up your whoredom…

      I know that relationships are SUPER complicated… But again, I am asking more women to please seek out a legal commitment, have kids, & then see what it is… Try that as a female collective, because truly believe that when a guy is legally bound, he is more likely to stay… & when you challenge a man to sign a marriage certificate, you get to see what he is really made of… (in most cases)

      If you are not making guys pay for the p*ssy privileges & all that it entails with a marriage license… I have nothing else to say to you… When we do get together… I will be tooting it, & booting it… Real Talk…

      • Starita34

        I actually think that you take criticism really well Adonis, if I got half the ish that you get I'd move on to another site with more like minded individuals be crying in a corner but I respect that you stay and state your case. I just don't agree with most of your ideas. We speak two different languages. For example, claiming that single mothers are only good for sex; that's simply ludicrous to me.

        However, the idea that children and families benefit from stability, we can agree on that.

      • RC Turi

        I'm sorry. Maybe I read this wrong, but single moms are whores now?

        Oh ok.

        • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

          whoredom was a bad term… irresponsible & poor choices is what I should have used…

          Thanks for calling me out…

  • lynx

    Sanen85 u can be obtuse all u want but do u even understand the point that's being presented?! Sci

  • lynx

    Cont..tech difficulty
    Sanen85 u can be obtuse all u want but do u even understand the point that's being presented?! Scientifically of course sperm is needed to fertilize a egg. But if u wanna take it that route sweetheart last time I checked SPERM CHASES A EGG! So why are all these women chasing men trapping them with unwanted babies?!

    Now…the point I am making is this….a woman decides to be a single mother henceforth when she waives her right to PROTECT HERSELF! A man can not have sex with u unprotected (unless its rape which is slim) u can't not get pregnant if u are on some form of b.c. and You the woman demand that a man wear a condom see that's a fact since when I said earlier sh*t happends and all yall wanted to say no not if he wore a condom!! So there, if a woman doesn't make a man wear one its his fault she got pregnant? If she wasn't taking b.c. and didn't make him wear a condom and respect her body, its his fault she got pregnant?!!

    Answer that…please im curious as to what your response is.

    • Larry

      @lynx, I hear what you're saying…I mean I really do. To be fair, though, would it be too far of a fetch to say that it's both parties respective "faults" that the pregnancy occured? If a woman decides to be a single mother because she does not protect herself, then the natural assumption is a man decides to be a father when he decides not to protect himself, too.

      I guess my whole thing is I don't understand why it has to be one person's "fault" or the other. Or why people play the blame game in this scenario. At the end of the day life is full of decisions/choices and as a result there are consequences/rewards that come about.

      Decision: Guy doesn't want to get women pregnant. Solution: Wear condom or don't have s*x

      Decision: Girl doesn't want to get pregnant Solution: Have man wear condom, get on B.C. or don't have s*x

      Consequence to all parties involved if solutions are not implemented 100%- Pregnancy

      I mean, it's really that simple. No casting blame, no one is more responsible then the other. Everyone has decisions to make, men and women, and at the end of the day you have to live with them, for better or for worse no matter what the situation.

    • sanen85

      "Sanen85 u can be obtuse all u want but do u even understand the point that’s being presented?! Scientifically of course sperm is needed to fertilize a egg. But if u wanna take it that route sweetheart last time I checked SPERM CHASES A EGG! So why are all these women chasing men trapping them with unwanted babies?!

      Now…the point I am making is this….a woman decides to be a single mother henceforth when she waives her right to PROTECT HERSELF! "

      After reviewing all of your posts again I kid, I don't have time for all that and wading through the expanded text speech and bitterness (likely brought on by all your time working for the state), I still conclude that I understand the point you are trying to make. I just don't agree. The point I'm trying to make is that a man also CHOOSES to become a father when he allows his d*ck to coast into the love below without protection. See how that works? Both parties are making choices here. Both parties are making babies. No matter what way you spin it, both parties are at fault. Sure, one has more control over whether or not to keep it (which is admittedly somewhat unfair), but the man went into that poontang knowing what could happen. Again, it's kind of silly arguing with basic facts and I'm spent on this topic so much luck to you with this commenting crusade.

      Also, I don't even know what you're getting at with the sperm chasing the egg thing. Especially considering that not all women get pregnant just to trap some fool.

      • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

        I know both parties share blame, but it tends to be the women who lose most of the time…

        I think women need to compensate for that… Women are expecting men to save them, and a single mother is the result…

  • lynx

    Bravo cynical optomist! Well said!

  • lynx

    Starita 34 When I was talking abt those 20% the men are active in the childs life and haave arrangements worked out with the mother, but bcuz of how the system is designed even whn u have good baby momma/daddy relationships they aare destroyed by the state bcuz all they care abt is making the man pay. Not to digress too much but one woman I helped lost her job, getting unemployment, currently pregnant, and the father is the dad for the one in her stomach on the exsisting child. He pays 1/2 her rent $500 per month. Bcuz of how daycare assistance is set up that man has to go on child support and pay back any monies she recvs. That's messed up especially when he was there supporting her and their children, she said forget it bcuz she didn't want him going on child support whn he already goes above and beyond. That's a real woman and they weren't married, guy said he was just trying to provide for his family while is a out of state contractor. U have to admire couples like that!

    As for the statistics I gave about child support my dear that came from headquarters of child support recovery services and signed off on by obama. Thaats why michelle obama has been pushing families first. That's why they are trying to do away with planned parenthood bcuz how many african americanss u know are planning parenthood?!

    As for me talking abt african americans and these statistics its bcuz I don't care abt what other races are doing, I want our ppl to get it together! Sure there are bad apples in all races no doubt in that. But I care abt our ppl and how we look. White women don't call their boyfriends baby daddy nor do they use that term towards theirselves. Not saying all but the vast majority don't.

    As for child support I personally don't believe in it. My childs father was never married to me but I never had to put him on child support, play games with our son, no drama etc. Ppl grow apart and we were mature enought to handle the truth. There was no bitterness or drama, nor did I bring other men arnd his son. Why? Bcuz of respect for myself 1st, my son, and his father. Just anybody was never suitable to meet my child. I wish more women felt that way.

    Appreciate your contribution to the conversation and I hope I did a thoro job of replying to what you presented :-)

    • TWIsM81

      Actually it's the GOP not Obama and his administration that is gunning for Planned Parenthood. Their claim is that Planned Parenthood is a government-funded abortionist system, which is ironic since 1) Only 3% of their budget has been for actual abortions and 2) Negates the fact that Planned Parenthood is actually geared towards pregnancy Prevention.

      Also from your statement it sounds as if you're implying that African Americans are the only population utilizing PP. You must know this is not true.

      Okay, Fact Checking Done. This convo got REAL. Too bad I'm having the busiest week at work ever. Would have loved being in the mix.

      This is your Voice of Reason… #carryon.

      • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

        THanks for the voice of reason

  • lynx

    Meter man what I got from his post is this….women before u make a commitment to raise a child by a man who may or may not be there, have that man show commitment to you to marry you. Where im from its a diss on your families name to be a baby momma. Its used to be that way in america also. If a woman is good enough to bear your child she shld be good enough to marry right? That's the point I got from what he was making

  • lynx

    Larry I agree with that…I do but u will still have women say I didn't make this baby by myself. Yes u did, u decided that when u didn't protect yourself. I get what u are saying abt a dude strapping up I do, but let's face it, if it smells clean to most dudes and a woman is willing to let them go raw a dude is going to do it.. that's reality, which shld be a red flag to women like how maany women has he done this with?!! That wld be a turn off to me bcuz HIV is real. I feel its ultimately my responsibility as a woman to prevent unwanted pregnancies…im sorry but that's how I feel and conduct my life. Is that right? Maybe maybe not but it has worked for me. I have been sexually active and my children are 18yrs apart. Bcuz I valued myself not to just have anyones baby.. I cldve been poppin babies out left and right with this one and that one if I didn't respect myself, my body, and demand protection to be worn and protected myself. So if I can do it anyone can!

    • Larry

      You're absolutely correct. The woman decided when she didn't protect herself. Also correct is the man decided when he didn't protect himself. Both are correct. Neither is wrong. Equally so, as a man if a woman just "lets" you go raw initially then that should be a red flag as well, thinking "man, how many dudes has she let her run up in her like this?" Ultimately it is both parties responsibilities to do what's best for themselves, so you are correct…it is your responsibility to prevent unwanted pregnancies…and it's also the man's, on his own end, to prevent the same. I've had quite a few bedroom ventures myself and thus far have not produced not one kid. I know people my age that has 5 plus kids, but I decided to be careful and wear protection and if I did it then I know anyone else can.

      You see…you see what I did there? All the points (and correct points I might add) you made from the female perspective I just made from the male's. But I hear what you're saying…to sum up your point you're basically stating you can only worry about things that you can control and ultimately there's no one really to blame but yourself if things don't go your way.

    • http://ladyngo.blogspot.com Lady Ngo

      @lynx

      This statement right here: "but let’s face it, if it smells clean to most dudes and a woman is willing to let them go raw a dude is going to do it.. that’s reality" totally negatesyo ur argument!

      Like a lot of other people are saying, the responsibility falls on both partners. The baby mama "allowed" the dude to hit raw, but the dude decided to hit raw as well. So, somehow because the average man is too big of a freakin idiot to understand that just because it looks nice and smells nice doesn't mean its disease free/free from the possibility of being impregnated even on birth control (another dumb excuse because no birth control other than abstinence is fool proof)…that thats somehow all the woman's fault?!?

      I do think that women should learn to respect themselves more and demand that a guy use a condom, but trying to use the excuse that somehow men are too slow to keep it in their pants as a way to take equal share of the blame off of them is absurd. If thats the case then men need to learn to respect themselves more!!

      • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

        I can't rock with this…

        People please stop the equality arguments…

        The guy DEFINITELY needs to be held responsible… I will not dispute that…

        Y'all are asking for equality as if s*x between a man & woman has EQUAL effects, and it doesn't…

        It seems to me that women have more to lose in a s*xual encounter than a man does…

        So, my logic tells me… Instead of demanding that men take equal responsibility…

        Women need to GO EXTRA HARD to make sure that this sexual encounter works out well for HER & her future children…

        y'all are applying 50/50 when it is really 80/20…

        If a woman GOES HARD and still fails… & can bounce back (like Max's mom http://max-logic.com/2011/03/28/dont-look-back/) I would still date her seriously…

        But my point is is that MOST women who have been in relationship with men and had children… DIDN'T take all the preventative measure necessary "aka serious" to get a man to commit… And then wants to get it right with me…

        ehh, I'm good… Let's @StreetzTalk seriously date those types of women… Life is not fair…

        • http://www.streetztalk.net Streetz

          LOLOL Le me date em huh?

          I wont argue anymore with you, for fear that those looking upon this conversation wont be able to tell who's who.

    • RC Turi

      @lynx

      You say that you weren't ever married to your child's father. So had he walked out and not supported you at all, he would have been in the right because you opened yourself up to having a child on your own since you had unprotected sex?

  • lynx

    Well said larry… as for the others its not bitterness its reality for some. I have nothing to be bitter abt lol I don't live with nor deal with baby momma drama. The past stays in the past. What ppl are still failing to realize everyone has a opinion just bcuz u feel so passionately abt your point doesn't make u right. All u can do is try and convey your point of view and recv kudos. But at the end of the day ppl who are living with this drama how is it affecting you directly? Hit dog yells first..

    I feel women need to be more accoutable of their actions…a man wont do anything u wont allow him to do know why? Bcuz he will move onto the next dummy who will. That's my point ladies! stop being dummies for d*cks! Atleast try to get a man to commit to u. U are good enuf to bare his chhild but not good nuff to marry?!! C'mon now….self reflection needs to be made for anyone who says I don't need that type of commitment of matrimony but u want a commitment for a baby daddy to be there and help u raise the child?! Give me a break! Some of u must have tongues hung in the middle so u can talk out of both sides of your mouth. U don't want to be accountable for not making a dude strap up bcuz its a 2way street and he shld have sense on his part, but if he dsnt have sense to protect himself and u don't make him why assume he has the sense to be a good father?! Or to be there?! Or to hold u down?! Smh…lol like I said hit dog yells first but im bitter..lol

    As for men respecting theirselves they shld bcux if I was a man I wldnt just let any ol rat carry my child and my child have jacked up hood rat dna. But that's just me and im not a man so I can speak figuratively like alot of u are doing. Tell u what, all proud baby mommas who didn't want marriage before a child, and don't mind being single mothers, waiting for mr right stand up and shout it out. Until then all u are doing is selling wolf tickets on one sided opinion lol

  • lynx

    Twism81 so u say that to say what?! Lol u call yurself dissecting something but did u see where I said im speaking of african americans bcuz idc abt what other races are doing. We need to improve ourselves before pointing the finger at other races. a black person can say its 80% of all african americans on welfare. U know what another black person will say? "Its more white ppl and latinos on it than us.." u knw its true! Lol what I want us/our ppl to get is being individually accountable for the stuff we do! That's what im talking abt ACCOUNTABILITY! If I hear one more person blaming the government or the white man for not having when immigrants of all colors have busted their butt and made it no one has a excuse. "Oh I cldnt finish college bcuz I had to take care of my 3 kids.." that's a excuse no one made u have 3 kids.. say I ddnt finish school bcuz I was stuck on stupid chasing behind some worthless dude who assisted getting me stuck with all these kids.. lol be accountable!

    • TWIsM81

      LOL. My point was as stated. I just wanted to clear up who was going after Planned Parenthood and also clear up the Blacks aren't the only people utilizing their services. As for accountability… you're preaching to the choir. I can't stand when people have a sense of entitlement for just being them. That's the fastest way to get a "Who-The-F**k-Are-You" look from me.

      With that being said, I can't turn my nose up at everyone who hasn't reached the same levels of accomplishment I have. Just because I've been able to earn some degrees and add a title to the front of my name, I won't ever jump on the "If I can make it you can too." bus. I think the opposite of the Entitlement people are the Holier Than Thou people. I wanna avoid the group like the plague.

  • http://www.twitter.com/TAARenaissance Adonis

    <blockquote cite="comment-289993">

    Streetz:

    LOLOL Le me date em huh?

    I wont argue anymore with you, for fear that those looking upon this conversation wont be able to tell who’s who.

    Nah, you don't need to argue with me bro, you already won… however… that wasn't a jab at you… especially when you have implied that you might be open to dating women with kids…

    It's cool.. It is not my cup of tea…

    And man to man, I respect you Streetz, and just because we don't agree, and the conversation can be contentious at times… I realize you don't KNOW me & vice versa… So, it is all good on this side of the planet…

    Please be free to keep it 100 with me and don't hold back…

    And I stand by my statements…

    Enjoy

  • http://www.bam2.webs.com Cassandra
  • http://www.bam2.webs.com Cassandra

    This baby mama drama has got to stop. Check out http://www.facebook.com/letstalkbabymamadrama

  • Sandi

    Sign my petition to end BABY MAMA DRAMA!
    http://chn.ge/1d622Eu