Home Dating & Relationships Dating Looking For Closure: Why Wasn’t I Good Enough?

Looking For Closure: Why Wasn’t I Good Enough?

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Quite the opposite.

**Phone rings**

Slim: F*ck. Who is this calling me? 516 area code? I don’t even know this number. Eh, I’ll answer it.
Jennifer: Hey Slim. It’s Jenn. Long time no talk.
Slim: Oh sh*t. Hey Jenn. What’s good? Long time no talk indeed. How are you?
Jenn: I’m doing well. **Proceeds to make small talk about her life and all the good things that have happened.
Slim: That’s what’s up. Glad to hear you’re doing well. (I had a feeling this was a closure call.)
Jenn: Thanks. I wanted to ask you something though.
Slim: No doubt. What’s that?
Jenn: Why wasn’t I good enough?

When she said these words, I didn’t know how to respond. I pseudo-coughed to buy myself some time before continuing.

Slim: Whaddaya mean? I’m confused.
Jenn: You said you didn’t want a girl and now you been dating someone for 6 months. I just wanna know what happened.
Slim: Oh wow. That’s an interesting question. You’re really cool peoples. Kinda surprised you’d call me and ask something so direct.

This turned out to be one of most difficult conversations I’ve had in my life. I had dealt with Jenn for about 7 months under the agreement we were just having a good time. I told her upfront that I wasn’t looking for a girl and that I was focused on myself and ensuring that I didn’t commit to something I wasn’t ready for. She accepted it then…or so I thought. Little did I know she just said that in hopes of coming across cool and agreeable.

Jenn: I thought we had something special. It kinda hurts me to see that you went back on your word and ended up dating someone else.
Slim: …………………………………………………..



Jenn was an amazing woman. She just wasn’t amazing enough for me. We spent a lot of quality time together, but it never went anywhere other than the bedroom. I talked to other chicks and was under the assumption that she talked to other dudes even though I never explicitly asked. For her to call me asking why things didn’t work out made me question if I had been clear enough. I replayed our first conversations and I knew that I conveyed what it was that I felt at the time. I really didn’t wanna date her. She had said some things along the way that turned me off, but I knew we could still kick it and have a good time with minimal repercussions. The words looped as I grasped for the right words to say.

Jenn: I thought we had something special. It kinda hurts me to see that you went back on your word and ended up dating someone else.

Jenn wasn’t right for me in terms of a relationship. I knew it the whole time, but didn’t see a reason to voice it since she understood what we were. She never said anything crazy per say, but I just knew that we weren’t meant to be even though I liked her. Jenn had most of the qualities I wanted in a woman except a crucial couple. She was really judgmental and I had some things going on in my life that I knew I couldn’t share with her and it bothered me enough to make me write her off as a girlfriend. She was in a category she didn’t wanna be in.

I could tell she was getting emotional. The pain was obvious in the peaks and valleys of the wave that was her voice. I hate making women feel like sh*t. As G as I wanted to be, I still considered her feelings even though we hadn’t spoken in months.

Jenn: I really thought we clicked. We never had an awkward conversation or a dull moment.

She was right, but I just wasn’t completely feeling it. And yet, here I was trying to explain why I had opted out of a potential relationship with her in order to pursue something special with someone else. It was a pretty f*cked up phone call. It’s probably part of the reason that I hate talking on the phone so much. I never know what someone’s gonna hit me with.

It’s a tough pill to swallow for a woman to be head over heels for a man then hear him explain why he isn’t ready, then watch him go off and commit to somebody else. It happens a lot more than we’d like to admit, but it’s a harsh and raw reality. I went on to say something general like everything happens for a reason. I could tell she wasn’t completely satisfied with my answer. And quite honestly, neither was I. In the end, I just told her she said some things along the way that led me to believe we’d have some problems down the road. She probed, but I didn’t go any further.

The reality is that just because you put in the work doesn’t mean the relationship will follow — especially when the other person told you they’re not trying to go there. Sometimes words do speak louder than action. Be real with yourself and maybe you’ll realize that you might be wasting your time. I did realize something. Unfortunately for her, the realization was that she wasn’t the one. This probably wasn’t the closure she was looking for.

Violins,

P.S. Check out my new personal blog at www.therealslimjackson.com. I’m doing 30 posts in 30 days for the month of May to get my content game up. It’s as real as the name of the site. You might like what you see there.

Slim Jackson Slim is the Executive Editor and CEO of SBM Media Group. He's been on the SBM scene for over three years. In addition to discussing relationships, Slim also enjoys writing about Career and Personal Development. Catch Slim regularly here and on his personal development blog, The Real Slim Jackson (www.therealslimjackson.com).
  • Bussiness Beauty

    Really great post! But quick question: r we as women supposed to walk on pins and needles trying not to say something to make our future "boyfriends" put us in a category that makes us "not the girlfriend type" ? And what exactly are these things? Talking too much? Demanding? Too opinionated? Exactly what do women do to turn men completely off??

    • CHeeKZ Money

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC5FdFlUcl0

      If a guy doesn't like the real you and what the real you has to say, you guys weren't meant to be. No need to fake the funk or be political.

      I'm inappropriate. So when I meet someone I am trying to make a reasonable crude joke, so they understand that this is the type of sinner they are letting in their lives. Don't hide.

    • I don't think you should "walk on eggshells" around anyone you plan on having a true relationship with, platonic or romantic. i think you just have to BE YOURSELF, accept the fact that you can't be everyones favorite person and keep it moving

    • Nah, no egg shells needed. For me, the fact that she said some really judgmental things made me feel like I couldn't be completely honest with her about what was going on in my life. And once I felt like i couldn't be honest, that kinda sealed the deal for me in my head. I'm sure there are guys that would have been fine with some of the things she said, but it didn't work for me. She was still cool and she made it sound like she understood what the situation was, so I just let things keep going as they were.

      • totally understand what you mean. like if a chick says something…and you hold onto that like a note on your phone to remind yourself…"this is how she feels about XZY"…

        and you know that, deep down, she feels a way on a subject that is totally disagreeable to you..and it might be one of the only things…but it's that one thing.

        like 89% of sh** y'all agree with/are cool to agree to disagree.. but that 11%…dealbreaker on the low.

        • Val

          sometimes I wonder if we (blacks) are too quick to write one another off…really ONE comment made you not see the chick as girlfriend material….didn't seem like yall were talking all that much LOL….maybe THAT was the problem…IF you guys weren't really sharing anything..how could you see where she was coming from with her comment???….seems like we over-look the thoughts, ideas, or even the lack of expressing thought and ideas in other races…I truly believe we blacks are TOO HARD on one another!!

          That is why…I'm really against "casual-sex" relationships…they really DON'T exist…One person is hoping the sex leads somewhere (usually the woman)…the other person is happy they don't have to do a damn thing to have sex (usually the man)….1 "relationship" 2 intentions…not really a relationship is it??

          as far as the post goes ~> thought-provoking, so it did its job! Thumbs UP! πŸ˜‰

        • SouthernCityGirl

          It's funny how it was so easy to write ole girl off for being judgemental but you (Slim Jackson) did'n't DISMISS her when it came to waxin that a$$. You and all the rest of the men that respond like this are lame as hell. Get you head out of your own a$$e$ because you are SERIOUSLY flawed. You're NEVER gonna find the "Perfect" woman because she doesn't exist, you just gotta find someone who well tolerate and live with your judgemental and simple a$$. Some of you men are an effin trip!

        • Amen!

      • To be honest, I think you we're harsh. Did she ever have an honest chance? It seems like you had your mind made up about her from the get go and there was a lot she could do to get in the "girlfriend" category. She off course should have known better and should have seen all this coming but I still feel like you could have been a more of a man about it. If you werent feeling the girl, you should have been sticking it in…. But thats just how a I feel about it…

  • C

    I dont usually comment but this one hit close to home since it happened to me last week…not the phone convo per se, but an actual, in person one. It was a long time coming and in the end, I did exactly what Jenn did and got the same results.

    Fellas, most times keeping a lady around that long warrants feelings, esp since most times we are driven by those. Be wary of an agreeable, cool chick. She wants more. No matter what comes out of her mouth.

    • So we're just supposed to communicate with your unconscious mind?

      • Kema

        YES!!! Or at least understand that if you keep having a chexual relationship that we may catch feelings and key your car because we see you out with another chick and hope that you feel the same.

        • Kema,

          With all due respect, that's a bullsh*t response.

          This is the thing: There is a paradox when it comes to male-female relationships. I like to call it the "Tell the truth, lie to self" paradox. You(women) want men to be truthful in all interactions. I've seen endless comments here, and in real life, where women state that "All you have to do is keep it real with me and we will be fine". However, when a man does keep it real, you lie to yourselves and convince yourselves that he either a) will change his mind eventually or b) is really fronting and will come around soon.

          I've heard women tell men that "if you continue to have s*x with a woman for a consistent amount of time, they will catch feelings and we should know. Well, if we ask you if you're cool and you say yes, should we assume that you're fronting? If we are having a FwB relationship, and men adhere to the parameters of the relationship, it still makes us wrong because we should be aware that women can't handle said parameters?

          This is the complete and textbook definition of women logic to me. I think women should keep it real with themselves. If you can't handle s*x without strings, don't get involved! If you feel that you're catching feelings, let the dude know and cut off ties with him on a s*xual level. Heartbreak after a month > Heatbreak after a year.

          Just don't use that "Men should already know" excuse as the basis for why men would be wrong. We are adults. Communicate your intentions, update your intentions, and make sure that there are no shades of grey. Don't be upset if dudes are sticking to their laurels, and don't change them because you have. Don't expect men to be empaths or telepaths either. Not all men are in tune to women's feelings and thoughts. We are not naturally Deanna Troys or Charles Xaviers. Communicate intentions, because you atching feelings or assuming that a man knows whats good with you inherently is just as bad as dudes who lead chicks on by lying.

        • Kema

          No, this is not a BS response… I say this as I am in this situation now playing Slim's part. However instead of acceptin chex from the guy I know is not the one for me I accept favors guys usually reserve for girlfriends.

          I was not saying he is wrong for what he did but that he should understand the ramifications of his actions. I would say the same to a woman allowing a man to wine and dine her although she knows she doesnt want him. Guys like nsa chex… Women like nsa everything else… We should both be mindful of other people feelings when accepting these things.

        • <blockquote cite="comment-311292">

          Streetz:

          If you can’t handle s*x without strings, don’t get involved! If you feel that you’re catching feelings, let the dude know and cut off ties with him on a s*xual level. Heartbreak after a month > Heatbreak after a year.

          this. my dad always says a lot of hurt for a little while is always better than a little hurt for a long while, which is essentially what you're doing to yourself if you're wanting something that isn't going to happen.

        • "…I like to call it the 'Tell the truth, lie to self' paradox. You(women) want men to be truthful in all interactions. I’ve seen endless comments here, and in real life, where women state that 'All you have to do is keep it real with me and we will be fine'. However, when a man does keep it real, you lie to yourselves and convince yourselves that he either a) will change his mind eventually or b) is really fronting and will come around soon. […] "…I think women should keep it real with themselves. If you can’t handle s*x without strings, don’t get involved! If you feel that you’re catching feelings, let the dude know… […] We are adults. Communicate your intentions, update your intentions, and make sure that there are no shades of grey. Don’t be upset if dudes are sticking to their laurels, and don’t change them because you have. Don’t expect men to be empaths or telepaths either. Not all men are in tune to women’s feelings and thoughts. We are not naturally Deanna Troys or Charles Xaviers. Communicate intentions, because you catching feelings or assuming that a man knows whats good with you inherently is just as bad as dudes who lead chicks on by lying…"

          That be some REAL ish there, Streetz… (smile) Let's see how masterful women are at communcation by LISTENING… (fade into darkness)

          "Communication is as much as listening TO your man as it is talking TO your man but NEVER talking AT your man…"–Symbiotic Loner for YEARS

        • Rox

          @ streetz & company, doesn’t the nature of this cyclical conversation provide enough evidence that YES chick is lying??? I know dudes aren’t that dense, especially in the age of blogging where we have these convos over & over & over again.

          just sayin

          it’s not rocket science

          let’s just go back to the days of acotin’ (southern accent).

      • Tasty Thoughts

        no but i think its just that at some point instead of just going on with said "relationship" there should come a time when you each sit back and re evaluate whats going on…i just got outta one of those situation too….u can read my blog…titled i kicked my emotional baggage to the curb……its not that i didnt know what it was…its just how do we both still pretend a year later that things and feelings arent there….when u stop just texting when its cutbuddy time to texting me about your day and stuff..and we now became lovers and friends..but still headed to no where in relationship ville…it creates a huge problem. and u are left with the above situation. its life….what can you do….

    • "Be wary of an agreeable, cool chick. She wants more. No matter what comes out of her mouth."

      I'm a huge fan of this blog and I look forward to post via email. I had to log on today and leave a comment as this hits home for me as well. I empathize with Jen because I'm a woman and I'm all too familiar with this type of relationship. Whether or not Slim was being direct, DIRECT with her isn't the issue. He told her once and that's all that really matters. I'm sure there were other indications along the way, but she probably chose to ignore them too. I personally would have been suspicious of "us" not being closer after months have passed. I'd start to feel some sort of way about our relationship not progressing outside of the bedroom. 6+ months is a very long time to be a friend with benefits. Slim not being able to confide in her about other things going on in his life, probably meant that didn't have long conversations or any dialogue necessary for developing a personal relationship. She probably felt that she could reel him in or that he'd become comfortable with her after awhile – opting for a relationship. I'm actually surprised that she made an effort to keep up with him and his relationship status AND decided to inquire about why it didn't work out. I wonder if she was this emotional and vulnerable during the "relationship."

      • Thanks for commenting and supporting the blog via our email subscription. We love yall, n sh*t! Come back again now y'hear!

  • lotusflower11

    Aww. I feel for this girl, but it sounds like she was in the situation waiting for you to change your mind. When she realized she had feelings for you, she should have left. It would have saved her time and heartache.

    • Maybe she *should have* left, but that's easier said than done when your feelings get involved.

      • Peyso

        but if she doesnt even do what's best for her feelings, can she really expect Slim or anyone else to?

        • Militantsista

          Too many women hang around too long waiting for something to happen. It is best to just leave and cut your losses. Better to leave with dignity than be embarrassed down the line. Ever hear of that saying "he's just not into you"?!?!?!?!?!

      • Chris

        Well, continue to play with snakes, guess what's going to happen? The choice is yours. Nip it in the bud, or prolong the inevitable.

  • Wow. I can only imagine the courage that she must have had to come up with to make that call. Though apparently (based on your side of the story) she didn't grasp the reality of the situation/non-relationship, it hurts like hell to feel like you are not good enough for ANYTHING let alone to be with someone that you care about. I feel for anyone who has experienced this type of emotional pain.

  • Damn. Good post. I think it'll hit home for a lot of folks.

    I've said it a 1000 times and it hasn't made me popular amongst the ladies, but I truly believe as far as men are concerned, they only have two type of women in their life:

    1) The woman (as in one) they'd be willing to seriously commit to/marry.

    2) All other women.

    I repeat. There's only room for one woman in group 1, so if you're not in group 1, chances arrrrreeeeee……

    I think this is too simple a concept for most women to accept. I think they prefer to believe "there is no way men can be that simple." But what does WIM know about how men think….obviously, nothing.

    *shrugs*

    • Kema

      This may be true but Jen wants to know why she wasnt good enough to be a girlfirend not wife. There may only be room for 1 in the group that men are willing to marry but more women get the chance to experience the girlfriend stage. So I understand her saying "why not me?"

    • GirlSixx is ChloeRay

      1) The woman (as in one) they’d be willing to seriously commit to/marry.

      2) All other women.

      Its really that plan and simple huh???

      • Val

        Did you get a good laugh out of that comment too!!

        If you GOT 1…why do you need 2??? LMAO!!

        Guess it's NOT that simple!! πŸ˜‰

    • <blockquote cite="comment-311281">

      Kema: This may be true but Jen wants to know why she wasnt good enough to be a girlfirend not wife. There may only be room for 1 in the group that men are willing to marry but more women get the chance to experience the girlfriend stage. So I understand her saying “why not me?”

      That's why I said "commit to" also. Same thing as a girlfriend. Some guys arent even looking to fill the position in group 1. In other words, it's a no vacancy position that perhaps will be filled when the job market improves. lol Until then, group 2 is open for application.

  • Ms. Lisa

    **De-lurking for the 1st time**

    Basically she asked you for an exit interview and you half-assed it. No bueno. If you were forthcoming on the real reasons why she wasn't good enough, then maybe she would have seen it as a lesson learned and apply it to the next dude, so she wouldn't make the same mistakes twice. A lot of people are not self-aware, especially in relationships. So you only hurt, not help the situation by not telling her. Crazy to think she could repeatedly do the same thing moving forward with dudes in the future and end up getting axed for something she's not aware of. It's very frustrating knowing you f-ed up but not knowing HOW you f-ed. Btw, this happened it to me… dude asked what happened… and I told him straight no chaser.

    • I 98% agree with this! Honesty is definitely the best policy in this scenario so that the person asking "why…?" comes away with usable info. That being said, I don't think the assumption should be that the other person f-ed up somehow. Not being "the one" for someone doesn't necessarily mean that you've done something wrong.

    • Starita34

      WELCOME FROM LURKTOPIA!!! πŸ™‚

      I get what you're saying and I assume I know where that passion comes from, but I gotta say…as much as I am pro-truth, I can't get with the whole "let her know what she did 'wrong' so that she won't eff it up in the same way with the next man" thing. Thing is, and we all hate to really acknowledge it because it complicates life so much, but we are all different. Like every single one of us. It's so much tidier and easier to lump people into groups. Women do this, men do this, #TheBlacks do that, Asians are this way, Alphas always ____, Southerners are so X…but it's just not that simple.

      If Slim told her "hey, when you wanted to go out all the time and I just wanted to stay in, I knew it wouldn't work"; or "the way you breathed made me wanna drain your life force outta you slowly while your family watched"…how would that have helped? Maybe her next guy will wanna be out more. Maybe he had an asthmatic mom and Jen's belabored breathing will lull him to sleep. Who knows. I definitely understand the need for and strong desire for closure, but in the end it's not going to change anything.

      It doesn't sound like Jen had some horrible fault that made her undateable. Sounds like she just wasn't Slim's flavor and the timing was bad as well, as he told her before he even knew her that he wasn't looking for a relationship. I would hope that if she had some huge turn off that someone; a friend, relative, ex, whomever would mention it to her, but this doesn't seem to be the case here…she zigged when Slim needed a zag. No papers. That's not something she needs to "fix". She just needs to find the right puzzle piece. #MixingMetaphors #AndWhat

      • QueenT

        THIS!

      • Good comment Star. I thought you were gonna go a different route, but I like this.

        • Starita34

          Sooooo, you just assumed you was gonna hate what I had to say? *humphf* I see how you are sir! lol

      • Great comment Star.

        Another concept folks seems to be glossing over here is this belief they have entitlement to closure. Closure, like most things, is a gift. It shouldn’t be an expectation that someone who is not interested in you owes you closure simply because you feel they should give it to you.

        …just sayin.

        • SBM

          I completely agree with this. There are a lot of things I want closure on, but it's not owed to me and I can't rightfully demand it of anyone.

          Slim went above and beyond the call of duty with what info he did give her.

      • i love this comment. and since you did, now i don't have to. yay. lol

    • Appreciate the comment. You done shown yourself so now you gotta come back and join the party again.lol

      • Ariana

        The question of what she was "owed" is so beside the point. It's about common courtesy and decency. If you can take all sorts of time and put all sorts of energy into getting her out of her pants and sleeping with her on the regular, you can take literally 5 seconds to say "I'm sorry you're disappointed that we didn't work you. I just didn't think we were a match."

        What's the huge inconvenience of saying those words? Why is there so much pushback over a simple request? Again, all of the rationalizations as to why a man really doesn't owe a woman in this situation anything just seem to serve the purpose of making men feel better about sleeping around with no strings attached. This situation is a lesson that there are going to be strings, and if you don't want them, then you need to be completely explicit from the start AND throughout.

    • KautiousNupe

      @LISA

      The thought that he "half-assed" it is emotional entitlement at its best. Woman specialize at that ish! He was no longer dealing with said chick and therefor did not owe her any solid explanations whatsoever. Its not his responsibility to help her understand what she did "wrong" so that she can fix it with the next dude. This makes no sense. Whats "wrong" with one relationship can easily be whats "right" with another one.

    • Militantsista

      True, because there are lots of women out there who never get a man's viewpoint, so they are clueless when it comes to men. There are too many fatherless daughters out there. So it is a good thing for you men to come clean and tell these women what's up, because it is obvious they have no clues. Men and women truly are polar opposites.

    • Val

      TOTALLY agree!!! I think we're not helping one another by being dishonest…dude felt what he felt…he could have at least been REAL about it….

  • TIffanyNicole

    I hate to be the bad bitch, but when you sign up for a position you usually play that position throughout the entire game. Not trying to make relationships out to be games, but when expectations are clearly set you can't just assume they will change.

    • Starita34

      Jen wasn't the only one playing out of position. Cut buddies have specific rules and roles. A cut buddy shouldn't be treated as a girlfriend. There should be no confusion. Yes, this means that you don't get some girlfriend benefits men and that have to be the @sshole on occasion. But a cut buddy situation is sorta @ssholish by design. It's about two people using each other to simply satisfy their sexual needs. Don't treat a cut buddy like a girlfriend, then be shocked when she wants the upgrade in status?! She's fulfilling the responsibilities, why wouldn't she want the perks?

      And another thing the phrase, "I'm not ready for a girlfriend right now" is a time limited statement…if a woman sees worth and potential in you, she may just chose to wait out "right now", often to our detriment.

      • NinaFontaine

        THIS! exactly "quality time" should never be a part of the scenario

      • TellyLongLegs

        "“I’m not ready for a girlfriend right now” is a time limited statement…if a woman sees worth and potential in you, she may just chose to wait out “right now”, often to our detriment."

        So true.Sometimes all women need is a hint of potential.

      • That's BS Star!

        The only rule in an FWB situation is that we never catch feelings, and if you do, we let it be known. That "no quality time" stuff is made for TV. You're confusing "cut buddy rules" with "side chick rules." Totally different.

        • NinaFontaine

          HA!

        • cynicaloptimist81

          Oh, TMIMITW…

          What you may not have considered is that when a woman:

          a) likes a man,

          b) spends the majority of her free time with a man,

          c) enjoys sex with a man,

          d) and ultimately wants a relationship (whether he doesn't want one or not),

          there is no way for a woman to keep herself from catching feelings. It's like…literally, physically, (and all other ___cally's) impossible.

          Star is right. Neither Cut Buddies or Side Chicks should be given girlfriend treatment. EVER! And first thing on the list of girlfriend treatment is excessive amounts of QT. Men's refusal to accept this will continue to keep countless women in emotional distress.

          And that "right now" line?! Ugh… It needs to be replaced by the word "period" or the phrase "with you". It's mean…but it's honestly what we need to hear.

        • GirlSixx is ChloeRay

          "The only rule in an FWB situation is that we never catch feelings, and if you do, we let it be known. That “no quality time” stuff is made for TV."

          YUP!!!!

        • GirlSixx is ChloeRay

          @ cynicaloptimist81

          "And that “right now” line?! Ugh… It needs to be replaced by the word “period” or the phrase “with you”. It’s mean…but it’s honestly what we need to hear."

          9 times out of 10 that's exactly what he means "I'm not looking for a relationship right now" he means (WITH YOU)

        • GirlSixx is ChloeRay

          <blockquote cite="comment-311225">

          TheMostInterestingManInTheWorld: That’s BS Star!The only rule in an FWB situation is that we never catch feelings, and if you do, we let it be known. That “no quality time” stuff is made for TV. .

          Yup, hence the term FAB/FAG (Fake Azz Boyfriend/Girlfriend) All the perks, quality time, fun, and Chex but NO TITLE and it could end at any moment.

        • cynicaloptimist81

          @GirlSixx

          Sooo…women are supposed to just know that when men say "not right now" they mean "not with you", right? I think I can get with that if men agree to just know that women are LYING when they say that they're okay just being a FWB with girlfriend perks for 7 months, lol.

          I think that's an even trade.

          Unfortunately, life's not fair like that. :-/

        • Starita34

          Aw Most, let's just keep it gully. A FWB/cut buddy/side chick/jump off is a totally amorphous term and that's why people like the quasi titles so much. It absolves them of all responsibilities while they continue to reap all the benefits. No one can truly define those terms, it's so different for everyone. If I were to enter into one of those relationships it'd have to be with someone I really couldn't stand and you better believe that the rules would be: if we're not naked, why are you here? Less talking, more moaning.

          I agree with Streetz, as hard as it was for me to "like" that comment, I had to, everything he said was true. Basically, if you can't handle anything less than "girlfriend" don't ever play any other role. The tough thing is a lot of guys like to use the lesser roles as a warm up. A(n) undress rehearsal. Ya'll drag your relationship feet like nobody's business. But the 'be true to self' thing goes both ways too. Ya'll use the "I'm not ready for a relationship right now" thing as a get out of jail free card. Like from there on out, any pain caused is not on you, she chose to be with your noncommittal *edit* self. Well, I think that that is BS. Yes, she shares in the blame, but you still are not off scott free. You still owe her the common courtesy of treating her like a human being with worth outside of warm vagina and someone to occupy your time until you are ready. And sometimes, that means pushing her away or ending a relationship that is beneficial for you but tortuous for her.

          Slim even said below in response to Max that even though he gave her the old "I'm not ready for a relationship right now" line, he was actually open to it at some point. We know this. And that's why we take gambles on you, why we persevere when you give us the "I'm not ready for a relationship right now" line. Not because we are stupid, or desperate, or naive, or illogical, but because we see value in you. Because we deem you worth it. Because time and time again we see that "I'm not ready for a relationship right now" is you not being honest with self.

        • Starita34

          <blockquote cite="comment-311280">

          cynicaloptimist81:

          Neither Cut Buddies or Side Chicks should be given girlfriend treatment. EVER! And first thing on the list of girlfriend treatment is excessive amounts of QT. Men’s refusal to accept this will continue to keep countless women in emotional distress.

          Right!? If this were something that women were choosing to ignore, it'd be branded "chick logic" or "crazy" and just be generally accepted that women are just dumb, but since it's men…

          <blockquote cite="comment-311280">

          cynicaloptimist81:

          And that “right now” line?! Ugh… It needs to be replaced by the word “period” or the phrase “with you”. It’s mean…but it’s honestly what we need to hear.

          This is when we are supposed to be "empaths or telepaths". It's a get out a jail free card, that's all it is, 98% of the time. Any other day they admit this freely, but I guess today we're supposed to take them at their word about it.

        • GirlSixx is ChloeRay

          "Sooo…women are supposed to just know that when men say “not right now” they mean “not with you”, right?"

          @cynicaloptimist81

          If she is really looking for more DEEP DOWN..,. then Yes!!!

        • NinaFontaine

          @STAR i agree and heart you very much for everything you've said.
          I mean I've tried to do the FWB thing and it just doesn't work – I mean I had explicit rules that this particular gentleman didn't want to follow.
          5. No long deep discussions
          4. I am not seeing you more than once a week
          3. The only outings we are going on are to pick up a quick bite
          2. No spending the night
          1. NO KISSING

          The fact that I love to do all five of those things – I realized I needed a relationship and not a FWB. I can't do it.
          Also, although men swear they could do without these things, if they like most things about you they want to do ALL OF THIS!

        • KautiousNupe

          Good Distinction @ Most. Chicks swear they know what they talking about but when it comes to NON-emotional relationships that have their foundations in sex, good times and beautiful gray areas where nothing is either expected or owed, women have a chemical or logical inability to totally grasp these type situations.

      • Militantsista

        When he says he is" not ready for a girlfriend right now", he really means," there is no way you could ever be my girlfriend".

        You would know this if you ever had a guy who was crazy about you.

    • Larry

      "Not because we are stupid, or desperate, or naive, or illogical, but because we see value in you. Because we deem you worth it. Because time and time again we see that “I’m not ready for a relationship right now” is you not being honest with self."

      and

      "And another thing the phrase, “I’m not ready for a girlfriend right now” is a time limited statement…if a woman sees worth and potential in you, she may just chose to wait out “right now”, often to our detriment."

      I find it interesting that I hear women say things very similar to this and the very same women love to give the age old popular advice of: "Don't make someone your priority when you're only an option"

      It seems fairly obvious to me if you're "waiting somebody out" you are priortizing that person in your romantic relationship life while they are obviously 'talking' with you and other women as well (options). If women are sitting on the sidelines waiting for a man to change is mind or "come around" then how many other men with great worth and potential are possibly you overlooking because you have tunnel vision? #typethingsclosetogethertotryandmakeacleverpoint

  • Hawaii

    Great topic, Slim.

    Damn. She needed some closure and you didn't give it. It's as if she was hoping to hear some kind of uncensored revelation about her… something she could work on changing. 😐

    I've been here (except for the being a cut buddy), that whole liking someone so much but they never get at you on some "make it official" ish. It's rather heartbreaking and confusing somewhat but I think the thing to do in this case, in order to have some peace with it all and keep it moving is to stop blaming self. It's cool to take time out to figure out your shortcomings but then, go and analyze him (or her), jot down the things about him that weren't/aren't so great. Sure there was so much about the two of you that would've blended so perfectly together but it's those faults of the both of you that would've deaded the whole thing faster than the Mavs did the Lakers- #iCry πŸ™

    • Starita34

      Beautiful avi.

      I say try to look at the whole picture too. His fault, my fault, whatever lets you sleep at night. The thing that was tough for me is just realizing – it didn't work ::period:: For whatever reason. No matter how bad I wanted it and how good I thought we were together, he wasn't in it in the same capacity. Who cares about the stats and where the blame lies, it won't change the outcome.

      "But the reality, honestly…you where never good for me and I was never good for you.

      I just remember what we used to do…."

      Yeah, that's the sound of my heart breaking…all over again *sigh*

      • QueenBinthestreets..

        LOVE the Jill Scott reference and LOVE that song!!

        • Starita34

          Girl, why was she writing straight outta my diary on "Whatever"? That is my ISH!!

  • Great post. This doesn't only apply to Ladies though:

    Two years ago, i realized I wasn't "good enough" for a girl I was madly in love with (pardon the mushiness; I'm the Romantic guy-type). She was feeling me too but she warned me of inconsistencies in her life; inconsistencies she refused to explained to me. But I didn't care because I was thinking with my heart and not my head– I f*cking wrote poems for this chick… She warned me about getting burned I didn't care: I was like a moth attracted to a flame…

    Until she f*cked an acquaintance we both knew…and all she told me was sorry; no crying, nothing dramatic like in the chick flicks where the females really show remorse for cheating …

    My self-esteem back then dropped from like probably 90% to 30…I didn't/don't blame her though, but till now I still cant get why I was never good enough, because she was happy with me.

    • Starita34

      "but till now I still cant get why I was never good enough, because she was happy with me."

      And this is why Jen called…like WHY!?!? We were SO good together!! Argh.

      Obviously not inside the other person's private thoughts… πŸ™

      • Yeah. But trying to get a confirmation by calling didn't do much help to her though. Sometimes it's best to let things be.

        • Starita34

          I know that for me, I had to ask. That's what I needed. To know that I did all that I could do. Who knows, maybe this gave her some semblance of closure…I hope that it did.

    • Business Beauty

      awww poor baby! She wasnt worth it anyway. POINT BLANK PERIOD! Her loss!

    • KautiousNupe

      I can help you understand some of your downfalls good brother.

      Number one. Cut the mushiness back 90%. Nice Guys Finish last..and this is a biological response from a woman's desire to be with an alpha man (dominant either physically, sexually, financially, socially) with alpha qualities (non-chalantness, aloofness, azz-hole-ish behavior). You dont get any golden stars for a writing a chick poems and sh*t. You actually loose points for that kinda behavior. I am a fairly groovy guy myself and I do consider myself a Renaissance man with poetic, literary and romantic flares from time to time. Control that ish. Women dont usually being to looking for a substantial dude (sensetive, responsible..good type of guy) until they reach their mid twenties and have already been fu*ked over by the alpha men of the world (Thugs, Good looking high powered men, athletes, frat boys, entertainers..etc).

      The women are gonna tell you its "her loss" but these are the very same women who have themselves dismissed, laughed at and totally disregards good dudes like you in the past. NEVER take advice from women on how to deal with women.

  • Dang son…

    This sounds like my cinco de mayo. A lotta tequila, a 3 am conversation, and two adults stuck in the car. We were driving and I just couldn't control it anymore- I had to ask why he didn't want me. Not necessarily the words I wanted to hear but sometimes the truth is painful. She's brave for calling you but I always prefer truth over speculation any day.

    • This sounds like a movie scene.

    • Sade

      I agree… I've had the truth make me want to rip out my heart so I could stop feeling the pain, but even with all of that hurt, I always felt better than when I was just speculating.

  • Man i had to do a double check that I didn't know any1 named Slim cuz my name is Jen and I'm from 516 lol. Anywho, things may have gone a bit smoother if the rules and boundaries had been PROPERLY laid out. My own interpretation of this situation is that yes Jenn wanted closure (even though she got a lil too emotional to actually get it) but that there also wasn't a clear understanding of the expectations from the get go.

    There's a huge difference between "Im not looking for a relationship right now" and "Im not looking for a relationship with you" From what i understand, the situation Jen actually found herself in was the latter but she believed the situation was the former.

    Regardless of which statement you make, theres always gonna be chicks that catch feelings and/or try to change your mind about them being "The One". But at the same time, its gonna be difficult for the average chick to see the boundaries when you create a situation, regardless of what you callin (messing around, just having a good time, etc) that pretty much mimics a relationship minus the actual title.

    In closing, i just think that dudes- if u wanna "have a good time" and "keep it casual" then you need to just smash and walk away, not put in all the extra bs (hanging out, conversing, etc regardless of how effed up that sounds). The chicks that are bout that life will stick around and the ones that'll eventually get hurt will get up and walk away. There'll be a lot less situations like these in the long-run if both parties involved properly play by the rules.

    • Sometimes men just enjoy the company of women without wanting all the responsibility. It's kinda like that Little Brother line:

      I want a girl when I want a girl. And when I don't want a girl, I want a girl that understands that.

      Also, I take people for their word. If you tell me you're just kicking it, then I expect that you're just kickin' it. At that point you've made a verbal agreement.

      • "Sometimes men just enjoy the company of women without wanting all the responsibility. It’s kinda like that Little Brother line:

        I want a girl when I want a girl. And when I don’t want a girl, I want a girl that understands that."

        Trust me, there isn’t a (sane) woman walking this earth that doesn’t know/understand/sometimes cosign (with appropriate adjustments to gender) that statement. I been lookin for a cuddle buddy for years lol. But every1 wants to either screw like rabbits or take it to the relationship level -_- There aren’t very many people (women especially) that want to play the role of “warm body” no matter what they say or how cool they pretend to be with it, and certainly not when they are getting mixed signals. If you (universal you, not you specifically) want to keep things casual then it doesn’t matter what “verbal agreement” you enter into. That stuff only works (moderately at that) in the professional world. When sex, love and all that other crap are involved you gotta be 100% clear with your words AND your actions. You can’t tell me you don’t want a relationship, then treat me as if we’re in a relationship, and expect me not to renege on catching feelings. That just not logical. And its not just a woman thing. I had a dude blowin up my phone just this past weekend on that “what happened, why did u toot it and boot it, we coulda been good together” nonsense and he was the one on the “lets keep it casual” bus and prior to this we hadn’t talked for like 6 months.

        I say a lack of congruence between words and actions is the culprit here. But these things happen. You can’t control who is gonna catch feelings for you (or who you’ll catch feelings for) regardless of how your pseudo-relationship starts and what agreements, written or verbal, that you lay out.

        • Starita34

          <blockquote cite="comment-311251">

          Lady Ngo:

          When sex, love and all that other crap are involved you gotta be 100% clear with your words AND your actions. You can’t tell me you don’t want a relationship, then treat me as if we’re in a relationship, and expect me not to renege on catching feelings. That just not logical.

          *cue Hallelujah Chorus*

  • Starita34

    Great post Slim, even though I sorta hate you a little on Jen's behalf. :-p And I feel some kinda way about the title…it's not really about Jen's worth as a person, rather her compatibility with you.

    This was a tough post. I've been the one hearing the old "bad timing" brush off and it's really hard to take when the whole relationship seemed so rosy. It's heart wrenching. I never got my answers. I knew when I asked that I wouldn't. But I just had to try. I guess in hopes that it'd be something "fixable"…

    On the other hand, I've also had the misfortune to be the one that received the phone call. I wasn't caught as off guard as you were. He was pushing pretty hard and I knew we were going to have the talk sooner or later, so I was somewhat prepared. I did offer more straight answers, but not the pure unadulterated truth because that would've been just cruel. I gave enough information for him to know that this was never, ever going to happen and that I had valid reasons and that we could be cool. That was nearly 2 years ago and it's still weird every time we get together. Can't win for losing. People's emotions are fragile but resilient things.

  • Morning Sweetness

    Wow….what an Interesting topic.

    Sounds like the post should have been called 'Caught Up'. Unfortunately.

    Hawaii says: "Damn. She needed some closure and you didn’t give it. It’s as if she was hoping to hear some kind of uncensored revelation about her… something she could work on changing. "

    Sounded that way to me, too.

    Although you were explicit at the beginning of your 'friendship', she hung around, caught feelings and wasn't sure WHAT to do about them considering you two had a 'previously stated agreement' about the way things were going to go down.

    Thing is, she wasn't being honest with herself.

    Once she realized she wanted more from you, she should have had THAT conversation with you regardless of her fear (that she'd never see you again).

    If that had taken place, perhaps you two would have discussed the whys and whynot(s) right then and there as opposed to her carrying it around, building up the courage to call and ultimately still not getting what she was after.

  • Cap'n Crunch

    I was all set to complimentary you on having the tough conversation but actually you threw the whole thing twice. First, you said you thought she'd judged the things you had going on in your life and decided you couldn't be in a relationship with her. You should have let her go then. You can't "play house" with someone for SEVEN months and expect feelings not to get involved.

    Then, instead telling her why you didn't want to be in a relationship with her, you let her think she wasn't good enough for you. It seems like you judged and categorized her because you thought she'd judge and disqualify you. No wonder why she was unsatisfied with your response.

    • Starita34

      <blockquote cite="comment-311038">

      Cap’n Crunch:

      Then, instead telling her why you didn’t want to be in a relationship with her, you let her think she wasn’t good enough for you. It seems like you judged and categorized her because you thought she’d judge and disqualify you. No wonder why she was unsatisfied with your response.

      One thing: I think that Slim could've done things differently here too, but let's not go crazy. I don't like people judging people unnecessarily, but this is the exact instance in which judgment is not only ok, but needed. Jen was looking for wifey position, it's Slim's job to judge the ever loving eff outta her if he wants to have a successful relationship. He has every right, even the responsibility IMO to judge her wifey worthiness and she just wasn't up to snuff.

  • This post reminds me of a less tragic version of (500) Days of Summer. Great post/thanks for sharing, esp since it opens yourself up to personal scrutiny

    I don't think its the man's responsibility to break it off with a female bc she might catch feelings, esp if he was sincerely upfront from the start. Kinda reminds me of the free bag of weed from Fridays post…they're both free/single, "on the same page", and can receive some sort of pleasure, why not take advantage? also, I feel as though if you're in an eff buddy situation, you would know if it was changing into a true romantic situation, but maybe thats just me. AND if a person was honest enough to tell you they didn't want anything serious, they wouldn't hold back from telling you they wanted to take the relationship to another level

    "Sometimes words do speak louder than action"

    In situations like this, one's words and honesty are key. I'm not saying actions don't play a role as well but seldom does someone tell you upfront they don't want anything serious and then it magically changes, and that would be the exception of course. random: I wonder if a person says "I'm looking for a relationship" is the other person more likely to put more value to those words, even if the actions don't follow suit?

  • CHeeKZ Money

    Why is it that Slim is always breaking the hearts of Long Island chicks? Not right at all….

    Slim was trying to be a nice guy. Had the decency to give her a phone call, end it a mature way. This girl stalks him (how the hell she know who he has been dating?), calls him out of the blue, and attacks him with her emotions, putting him in a place where he can't express himself or run. He has to sit there and be awkward for her sake. Than you females applaud her for coming out her neck.

    You know what Slim should have done? He should have just stop calling the ho3 and pull the good old disappearing act #wesleypipes. The person doing the heart breaking never gets anything out of the conversation. It selfish to put someone else through that. I swear it never enough. Learn to let it go. If you want to talk to someone about old relationships go hire a therapist. If I don't want to be with you, why on God's earth would I want to talk to you about not wanting to be with you?!?

    • Starita34

      I disliked this, don't have the energy or couth to state why right now, but perhaps in the morning.

      • Starita34

        Must we use the blaming, "crazy women" terminology? She's a stalker now because she knows that he had a relationship? Couldn't be that they run in the same circles, or are facebook friends, or they stayed IRL friends, or she knows his new chick. She just must be a "crazy" stalker, right? Maybe you and Slim are IRL friends and you know something that was left out of the story, but from this vantage, you made quite the leap.

        What women were applauding her "emotional attack"? Lord! This terminology! You sound so wounded CHeeKZ. Slim didn't have to do anything. Matter of fact, since he added the bit of info that he was in a relationship at the time of this call, I'd have even be cool with him ending the call.

        <blockquote cite="comment-311076">

        CHeeKZ Money:

        You know what Slim should have done? He should have just stop calling the ho3 and pull the good old disappearing act #wesleypipes.The person doing the heart breaking never gets anything out of the conversation. It selfish to put someone else through that.

        O_O

        *blink*

        O_O

        Do I continue speaking to someone that refers to an unknown woman as a ho3 just because she wanted some closure with a guy that she saw a potential future with…?

        Other folks read this to, so let me at least try…there is a lesson in every action of your life. If you're not getting anything from relationships except a nut #YoureDoingItWrong, even if you are the one that ended it.

        Selfish!? We're talking about selfish now?

        I'm done.

        This comment disappointed me CHeeKZ. It's ok, I know #NobodyCares. Still, what a waste of a perfectly perverse mind…

    • QueenT

      Dag Cheekz…lol….you go hard much?

      • CHeeKZ is going hard

        <blockquote cite="comment-311185">

        QueenT: you go hard much?

        Only when I see your avatar.

        I'll be here all week people.

    • What the homey Cheekz has said above is blunt, yes, but, I don't see anything untrue here.

    • max

      <del>Why are you only allowed to hit the dislike button once??</del>

    • cynicaloptimist81

      I can see where you're coming from.

      But, the general tone I'm interpreting from the comments do not necessarily applaud her for calling him and requesting closure/attacking him with her emotions. The general tone, to me, is that woman can identify with HOW she ended up in that position and how Slim/Men need to understand the part he/they played/play in her/our emotional distress…it's not all her/our fault.

    • Dislikes be damned. I agree with Cheekz on this one. Sometimes sitting down and having the it's not me it's you conversation (yes, you read that right) isn't going to be enough. So rip the damn Band-Aid off already and stop going little by little. Depending on who you're dealing with, the cold shoulder can be the more humane way to end things.

  • Christina

    Seven months of hanging out with a girl who’s “cool peoples” sounds like you were dating her… or stringing her along. I don’t think Jenn asking “Why wasn’t I good enough” was a good question to ask. Maybe “Why did we end up going our separate ways” would’ve been a better question.

    Here’s the part I don’t understand:

    “Jenn wasn’t right for me in terms of a relationship. I knew it the whole time, but didn’t see a reason to voice it since she understood what we were. She never said anything crazy per say, but I just knew that we weren’t meant to be even though I liked her. Jenn had most of the qualities I wanted in a woman except a crucial couple. She was really judgmental and I had some things going on in my life that I knew I couldn’t share with her and it bothered me enough to make me write her off as a girlfriend”.

    Uhm…you liked her and she had qualities that you liked in a woman, but you didn’t want to make her your girlfriend? You liked her, but you couldn’t share, with her, the things that were going on in your life.

    I can’t make sense of this. When she probed, you should’ve said something like, “I noticed that you were a really judgmental person and that’s something that bothered me and prevented me from making you my girlfriend”.

    It sounds like both of you messed up by not communicating what ya’ll were truly thinking and feeling. There was self-denial on both sides and wires got crossed.

    • "Seven months of hanging out with a girl who’s “cool peoples” sounds like you were dating her… or stringing her along. I don’t think Jenn asking “Why wasn’t I good enough” was a good question to ask. Maybe “Why did we end up going our separate ways” would’ve been a better question."

      Again, this makes Jen so passive to me. There came a point, somewhere in the 7 months, where Jen's feelings and desires changed. She didn't say anything. That's on her. Slim didn't have to tell her about how the fact that she was a judgey mcjudge wasn't cool to him because it wasn't a big enough deal to void their current agreement – the agreement they made when the started dealing with each other.

      On her end, Slim's awesomeness and the desire for more than a FWB situation that the awesomeness sprang up inside of her voided their original agreement. When that happened, she should have renegotiated the terms of her contract or took her talents to south beach.

      • #bawse

      • cynicaloptimist81

        Sooo…she should have been completely honest with him and herself about her intentions but he didn't have to be completely honest with her about his????

        Again, "not right now" and "not ever" are two different things. One implies "maybe later" while the other squashes hopes and dreams…as it should.

        "Not right now" is a string-along phrase…I use it with my children ALL the time, lol. I know it well…

        • GirlSixx is ChloeRay

          <blockquote cite="comment-311302">

          cynicaloptimist81: Sooo…she should have been completely honest with him and herself about her intentions but he didn’t have to be completely honest with her about his????Again, “not right now” and “not ever” are two different things. One implies “maybe later” while the other squashes hopes and dreams…as it should. “Not right now” is a string-along phrase…I use it with my children ALL the time, lol. I know it well…

          At that point it was on Jen to inquire within and make her decision then and there to either play along or roll along.

      • Christina

        Most Interesting Man in the World,

        Why would a man dispose of a woman if he likes her? He did say he liked her, so he sounded passive as well. It doesn’t make sense to say “I like you, but I don’t want to be with you”. This scenario only makes perfect sense if Slim’s bipolar. He’s hot then he’s cold…he’s yes then he’s no…the upside of their agreement is that he was consistently inconsistent.

        Slim said, “Sometimes men just enjoy the company of women without wanting all the responsibility”. This is selfish and this statement reminds me of the mindset of many dead-beat fathers. They want to nut up in a woman, then back away when she gets pregnant. This type of behavior and frame of mind is selfish in every sense of the word.

        • Larry

          "Why would a man dispose of a woman if he likes her? He did say he liked her, so he sounded passive as well. It doesn’t make sense to say “I like you, but I don’t want to be with you”.

          Umm…it doesn't? When I go out on a couple of dates with someone and I think, "You know, this woman is cool. I like her." then automatically right there I should ask her to be my girlfriend? Even in Slim's case, they were talking for 7 months. Has anyone ever considered maybe Slim was also "hanging out" with other females during that same time that he liked, too? I know we all realize it is possible to like more then one person at a time, but it's wrong to be a "player" and have multiple girlfriends. Maybe…just maybe..throwing it out there…Slim possibly liked other women more then Jenn…and that's not a slight on Jenn, just a testament to other people he felt wouldn't be so "judgemental" etc…

          “Sometimes men just enjoy the company of women without wanting all the responsibility”.

          Call it selfish or whatever, but to compare a situation where two grown adults are hanging out to dead beat fathers is quite the hyperbole. The responsibility is the obligation to be in a relationship. Companionship is something everyone wants and seeks. Whether it takes form of a romantic relationship or just two people hanging out getting to know one another.

          Bottomline is just because I think you're a great person and I like you as a whole be aware there are other factors that may contribute to me not wanting to be in a committed relationship with you. Very simple.

  • Some times we chick can be in denial..but no blanket statement is 100% on point, Any way short story…

    I have this male friend who used to work out of the country and claimed could not hook up with the women in that country so for close to 3yrs..he was hinting on me hooking him up with a chick back home. MY pal is a "3" in the looks department..but has (had) a an amazing personality, good job well spoken, well traveled i finally hooked him up with my cousin. She's attractive so at first was hesitant hooking them up and cautioned about treating him nice ,,,being straight etc as i totally believed in this guy.. turned out he was the wolf in Sheep's clothing…

    They got along so well….he was always charming. They both could not thank me enough for the hook up….pushed her to meet her parents and her his relatives..like the cards for the engagement were almost on……one day dude say's i do not think am good enough for you blah blah #$%@!! Long story short..they broke up…silly me i was worried about his heart but he broke my cousins heart first… This kept bugging me..until i got a chance to ask him…and gave me a vague answer about her staying true to her self….

    I felt he owed me at least an explanation considering he made me look bad….guess they never give straight answers

    • TellyLongLegs

      Stories like these remind me why I don't/won't hook anyone up.

  • goons

    Sometimes words do speak louder than action”

    ========================================

    To me words go together with actions…when we try and split the two, that is when there is a LOT of confusion created in most cases..if you did not see a future with this girl, then you shuld said and acted accordingly (left her alone!!!)…most probably you said and did not act accordingly because she was satisfying some other need of yours..selfish bastared…lol…words or actions alone are not enough hence for me they have to go together…..

    If I sense a disconnect I usually run…it has saved me a lot from unneccessary heartache….. and breaking windows!!! This he said,she heard crap dont work for me…say and act like it!! If i dont believe you after that , then it is all on me!!!

    • But what about Jen? If he was upfront and with her why wouldn't he expect her to have been the same. He took her at her word,

      • goons

        same applies for jen..both parties have to be honest about what they want and act like it….if jen LIED to HERSELF (and slim) about what she wanted after slim had told her and acted then its on her..in that case, slim owes her nothing..she needs to look within for the damn answers…

    • KAPSpecial

      I think words and actions go together, but there are plenty of times when words and actions don't line up. In those situations, you have to go with the one that's most definite. So in this case, Slim and Jen had an agreement that they were just kicking it/sexing it/hanging out whatever. That agreement trumps any action. The agreement is clear. The actions are questionable and if you want to make the actions clear you need to ask some pointed questions (e.g., I know we said we're just hanging out, but do you think we can be something more?).

      Another situation, a dude says he loves you and yet beats you on the regular. Clearly the actions and words aren't lining up. Does he love you? Maybe, maybe not. That's questionable. What's clear is that he is beating you on the regular. Those actions should lead you to getting the hell out despite his declaration that he loves you.

      Another thing I've found is that when a dude tells you something, he generally doesn't feel any responsibility to do anything else. I don't think this is always right especially in those instances where a dude realizes that a woman is clearly feeling more. So if you want to take the chance and believe that your backflips in bed or homecooked meals will win him over, go for it but only if you acknowledge the risk that he'll let you do your backflips and eat your food AND still may not commit to you, take you anywhere that doesn't have a drive thru, or anything else you would like him to do.

      Bottomline: When a dude says he's not ready for a relationship now (or anything else you DON'T want to hear cause you think he's so great), BELIEVE HIM and guard your heart accordingly.

  • The interesting thing about this post is that someone suggested I change the ending and say I told her everything because women reading would put me on a skewer if I left it as is. I think I would've been doing a greater disservice by lying and giving it a peachy ending so everybody can clap and say hooray Slim and tell me about how great I am for telling her the unfiltered truth. Instead, I chose to write it.

    Just because someone calls to follow up doesn't mean they're entitled to a long detailed answer. What I should've done was tell her I was really uncomfortable having that call (seeing I was with somebody else) and not elaborated on anything at that moment. It would've been better to think about what I was gonna say if I didn't instead choose to not say anything.

    • NinaFontaine

      <blockquote cite="comment-311144">

      Slimuel L. Jackson:

      Just because someone calls to follow up doesn’t mean they’re entitled to a long detailed answer. What I should’ve done was tell her I was really uncomfortable having that call (seeing I was with somebody else) and not elaborated on anything at that moment. It would’ve been better to think about what I was gonna say if I didn’t instead choose to not say anything.

      You are absolutely right ……….but would you really have gone back and revisited the conversation with her?

    • TellyLongLegs

      Not changing the ending was a good idea, you shouldn't have to lie. 

      From the beginning you were upfront.As a woman who always wants answers, I understand why Jenn called you but you're right you didn't HAVE to tell her anything especially since you two weren't dating. Since Jenn knew she was developing feelings for you and wanted more SHE should have either confronted you with her new found feelings or walked away because of the agreement that was made in the beginning. 

    • Starita34

      Thanks for telling the story as is. You knew you'd get guff and I realize that you bloggers have to take a lot of ish doing what you do. So thanks for letting this be a real piece about real life and not a fluff piece designed to garner false praise.

      And for what it's worth I agree with this completely, "What I should’ve done was tell her I was really uncomfortable having that call (seeing I was with somebody else) and not elaborated on anything at that moment."

      ^^Notice that Slim is still taking responsibility for HIS own actions here and not blaming Jen. That's what men do.

    • 05girl

      um, huh? that's an excuse. You could have called her back later after some thought.. but if she asked then she deserved a response. Unless you never had any respect for her in the first place.

      • She does not deserve a response. Just cuz someone asks doesn't mean they should receive. What's good with the entitlement these days? Respect the fact I have a girl and that she probably wouldn't appreciate someone that used to sleep with her man calling and demanding answers. This is silliness.

    • KautiousNupe

      Slim! This blog is called SINGLEBLACKMALE.ORG. It is not your responsibility to pander to the needs of the females that read the blog and DOMINATE the comments sections. Women do love to talk and hear themselves talk..so I am never surprised when I see that some chicks post up to 15 paragraph length comments on any given blog post.

      It would have been blasphemous for you to change the ending!! Too all the good brothers who write on this blog, please remember this blog was supposed to be a blog from a man's perspective. Please dont change it..because us guys are really depending on yall to write on our behalf. If the content disturbs, shocks or offends any of the women reading it…that means that they are truly getting a piece of how we MEN really feel and think sometimes!!

  • Brittany

    She wasn't "amazing enough" to be your girlfriend but she was amazing enough to fuck and whatnot? That's some bullshit.

    • It's life.

      • #Cosign. The truth hurts.

    • How is it BS? Slim wasn't f*ckin by himself, she was f*cking too.

      • DeKeLa

        there is alot of angry/hurt women out here on these e-streetz (no pun)

        • JBanx

          You're a fool for that one. LMAO.

      • GirlSixx is ChloeRay

        This is post is just……. Wowwwwww. Just Wowwwwwww. #Breezy

        I wanna say I feel for Jen but at the same time I can't. Slim you kept it 100% with her but apparently she only kept it 50% with you and herself. She thought she could wait you out or Fcuk you so good that you would wanna change your mind. What Jen failed to realize is that these kind of situationships (fcuk buddy FwB) have a Shelf Life, a non-disclosed Expiration Date when either party sees fit.

        Jen missed a major signal/sign here which could have saved her some grief by ending this and walking away EARLIER, even though she was "cool peoples" and you were given her QT. (Sign: The fact that you said you assumed she was seeing other men — You didn't inquire because you DIDN'T CARE, you didn't see her as longterm) #pointblank

        She wanted closure and an explanation but you didn't owe her anything. The only thing you owed Jen was "Safe Sex"

        • Starita34

          <blockquote cite="comment-311288">

          GirlSixx is ChloeRayne516:

          I wanna say I feel for Jen but at the same time I can’t. Slim you kept it 100% with her but apparently she only kept it 50% with you and herself …

          Jen missed a major signal/sign here which could have saved her some grief by ending this and walking away EARLIER, even though she was “cool peoples” and you were given her QT.(Sign: The fact that you said you assumed she was seeing other men — You didn’t inquire because you DIDN’T CARE, you didn’t see her as longterm) #pointblank

          I really wish we were better at seeing outside of ourselves. We like Slim, he's our friendly neighborhood blogger, we know him, we relate to him, so we're on his side for the most part. If we were reading Jen's blog. There'd be all sorts of "eff that idckhead Slim" and "why couldn't he just keep it real" etc, etc. We're getting Slim's part of the story. Not that he's lying, but he's sharing his experience of how it went down.

          She was supposed to take him NOT asking if she was effing other men as a sign that he didn't want anything serious from her? O_o The fact that he didn't ask a question was supposed to be more significant than the fact that her and this guy that she was really digging were spending QT together, had good sexual chemistry, and got on like peas and carrots?

          Oh. Ok.

        • GirlSixx is ChloeRay

          @Star

          She was supposed to take him NOT asking if she was effing other men as a sign that he didn’t want anything serious from her?

          Hmmm, well let's see… me personally I'm not the inquisitive type in general so for me to ask a question means I care or have interest in knowing. Slim and Jen been kicking it for 7 months and if he saw her as a possible GF he would have done his due diligence and asked about her carfax, so the fact that he didn't during all that time tells me he didn't see her as longterm. JMO

          "The fact that he didn’t ask a question was supposed to be more significant than the fact that her and this guy that she was really digging were spending QT together, had good sexual chemistry, and got on like peas and carrots?"

          He enjoyed her company, and the chex was good…. (FAB)

        • Starita34

          <blockquote cite="comment-311469">

          GirlSixx is ChloeRayne516:

          @Star

          She was supposed to take him NOT asking if she was effing other men as a sign that he didn’t want anything serious from her?

          Hmmm, well let’s see… me personally I’m not the inquisitive type in general so for me to ask a question means I care or have interest in knowing. Slim and Jen been kicking it for 7 months and if he saw her as a possible GF he would have done his due diligence and asked about her carfax, so the fact that he didn’t during all that time tells me he didn’t see her as longterm.JMO

          “The fact that he didn’t ask a question was supposed to be more significant than the fact that her and this guy that she was really digging were spending QT together, had good sexual chemistry, and got on like peas and carrots?”

          He enjoyed her company, and the chex was good….(FAB)

          Do you see how that requires a lot of speculation though…we have to assume that a) Slim is "not the inquisitive type" b) that when he is interested in a serious relationship that he morphs into "the inquisitive type" c) that if he were wondering about her sexual status that he'd go directly to her instead of employing other methods… You're trying to prove a case with the lack/absence of evidence-it's damn near impossible. The suggested method would normally be to communicate openly and honestly with the person involved…but for whatever reason they didn't do this at the time. I can think of a few reasons:

          – scared of losing a good FWB

          – they think everything is hunky dorey as it is

          – don't wanna scare away a man with commitment talk

          – not sure what they really want

          – don't want to have to hurt each other with the truth…etc…

          I mean, I get it. I understand it all. I just think we should strive to be better.

        • cynicaloptimist81

          Star, I'm telling you!

          If I knew you outside of SBM, we'd have to have 'real talk' over some Banana Pudding Milkshakes from Chik-fil-A…my treat! We are so :::here::: (Martin gesture) right now, LOL!

          You are so on point today…IMO…which is what matters the most to me, LOL.

          Ijs…

        • Starita34

          Lol, I'm down-can we make it one of those froyo spots though, I'm trying to work on my fitness πŸ˜‰

      • That is the first time I seen Most get negatives… Wavy…

    • Hugh Jazz

      <blockquote cite="comment-311167">

      Brittany: She wasn’t “amazing enough” to be your girlfriend but she was amazing enough to fuck and whatnot?

      Of course. That is the literal definition of a friend with benefits.

      • Starita34

        LOL

        iHateU for this!!

        Mostly because it's so true.

        • Hugh Jazz

          Don't hate me Star, it's just man logic!

        • Starita34

          I can't hate you…you spoke nothing but the truth.

          And that's why I'll never be a eff buddy. Not built for it.

    • CHeeKZ is going hard

      Some one lied to you…

      Someone told you that you needed to be special in order to beded. Truth of the matter is that you don't have to be amazing. You don't have to be special. All you have to do is be of the opposite chex or in Mr Cee case, dress like you belong to the opposite chex.

      Just a warm body. A good alternative to my right hand. Don't give yourself more value in a partner's life than you have. With some fetishes, you don't even have to be alive in order to be a partner.

      • T_Renee

        "With some fetishes, you don’t even have to be alive in order to be a partner." <and with that I am slain lol

  • Okay, just had that church sermon feeling again. I like the awkward feeling you get when you read blog posts that seem like someone looked back over your past and is quasi-putting you on blast. Soooo, I may or may not have been in this situation. Funny thing is, I've played both roles here.

    With that, I think the situation begs the question: Aren't both people at fault? I know when I've told someone I wasn't trying to be in a relationship, I've genuinely meant I wasn't looking for a relationship… at that time. But I guess in all truth, I wasn't completely against the idea of being in one.

    I've thought about this many times looking over past "relationships" and how they evolved and eventually ended. Being that I'm kind of introspective like that, I always try to learn from my past in order to better prepare me for the future. But… would I call the women of my past and ask them "What went wrong?" or "Why not me?"… Nope.

    1) It kinda has a smell of desperation and puts me in the role of playing the victim. I'm not a fan of this.

    2) In every "failed relationship" I've had the common denominator is… wait for it…. me. So instead of me waxing romantic about all the good times, I focus in on the things that happened where nothing may have been said, but the "That was weird/This -ish don't feel right" button was mentally pressed.

    Alright this is getting long better wrap it up. (That's what she said) There comes a point where everyone realizes the person their with is either in the category of "The One" or in "This isn't really going to go anywhere". The problem is, usually, this epiphany doesn't happen for both parties at the same time (or, as in this case, there isn't an agreed classification).

    • Starita34

      (((Applause)))

      Go 'head and say that.

      Except for this (It's always something with me, eh?) :

      "2) In every “failed relationship” I’ve had the common denominator is… wait for it…. me."

      I think is a classic case of correlation not implying causation. Like saying that every person that has ever died breathed oxygen, so we should really cut that breathing ish out if we wanna stop dying. Uh, no. Totally unrelated. True. But not related. Finding someone to commit to is about your fit, the way the two of you mesh. Relationships aren't made or lost by one person…it's about your chemistry and ability to complement one another. You gotta find that right fit. You can pause if you want to.

      • This is true, one person can't make a relationship. But the bigger picture I was going for is: Keep it moving. I mean, if I'd been dating a chick for years, engaged, or married to her, then yes I'd have questions. But in a FwB arrangement (which is more of a myth than anything else) I'm not trying to ask questions. #KeepItMoving

  • QueenT

    Jenn was brave…I have wanted to ask a coupla guys from my past "why wasn't I enough". What I did was ask everbody else…lol….I used my family and friends as therapists…I think, you should just talk it out with someone else..don't call and ask an ex anything….it's not going to be an enlightening conversation…no light-bulb moment…you will just walk away more confused & frustrated……

    What I have found out in my many experiences with Men is that…9 times out of 10 they aren't really clear on why it wasn't YOU…they may have a general idea..but, nothing concrete….it could've been that you challenged them too much..or maybe, you laughed too loud…or chewed with your mouth open, I mean it could be anything…I have just learned to chalk failed relationships up to a learning experience…..and move on. Don't even think of it as "why wasn't I good enough"..think of it as "his loss for not seeing the good in me"…….keep it moving.

  • "It wasn't you it was her."

    That's what it boils down to most of the time in these sorts of situations. Most of the time it's not that there was anything particularly wrong about one woman, it's just that you meet another woman any anything less that a full on, all the way in relationship just seems out of the question to you. Some women have that appeal to some men, and other women don't.

    One of the things I'm not particularly fond of is passiveness in relationships. To me, Jen seems passive. Like she's not an active participant in all this. It's like she was just sitting around, hanging out in Slims life waiting to get chose when she should have been making her desires and expectations clear and then having the nuts to get up and leave when it became obvious that the relationship wasn't gonna go where she'd originally hoped. Women always get on us for not communicating effectively and sometimes we do suck, but not this time. In this case, Jen wasn't communicating effectively. Jen wasn't honest with herself about what she really wanted and was probably too enamored to just bounce, so instead, she settled for what Slim was offering.

    Seems like a lot of the ladies commenting were expecting Slim to be able to communicate effectively with Jen's id, extract from there her deepest desires for their relationship, and then put her out to pasture having realized that, despite the protests to the contrary that would surely follow, she's not really o.k. with accepting less than a relationship.

    • I absolutely agree. Slim was upfront about his intentions – Jen should have been too.

    • cynicaloptimist81

      Personally, I just want men to treat/read women according to how WE operate. Again, y'all can s.ex and cuddle with a woman that's okay enough over a 7 month period and not catch feelings but we don't operate like that! I don't care what she said, lol. We just can't do it. Our head and heart gets confused between the 2nd & 3rd month!

      Correct me if I'm wrong, ladies, but most woman cannot s.ex and cuddle with a 'okay enough' guy for an extended period of time. If we're spending the majority of our free time with you and giving up the cookie (lol), it's cause we really, REALLY like you and we want more…and not just more s.ex.

      I'm not saying she shouldn't hold herself accountable for not being honest with herself…and pulling a semi-desperate move. She should…she really should.

      But, you fellas need to do a better job of acknowledging and accepting the truth about how a woman's sacred place is tied to her emotions.

      A 2-3 month window is about all you've got, fellas, lol. That's the time to get out of dodge or you WILL have to deal with her emotional attachment to you.

      • Men would treat me women consistently if women behaved consistently. I'm sorry, I'm not reading into anyone's thoughts. Just trell me or I'll ask. Youre response will determine my future actions.

        I think women need to for real sit down and not lie to themselves. If you are going to develop feelings for a guy because of an action then dont sign up for something as if you won't. Men are literal usually. The responsibility starts with the female first!

        • cynicaloptimist81

          Fair enough.

          But, when this cycle continues to happen, at least men know that their refusal to read beyond the surface is part of the reason for the repeated drama.

          Real talk, if a woman is willing to lie to herself to deal with you (and face it, fellas, y'all know these chics would commit to you at the drop of a dime if you wanted them to…meaning you know she's lying), you're willing to accept her lie for the sake of what you get out of it (s.ex & a chill buddy). If you can't see how Jesus would not approve of that move (in addition to not approving of her lying to herself), lol, then you are now lying to yourself. That mindset is not cool.

      • Hmmm… I am with you on this, partially because I am the type who will take the extra effort to operate to a woman's advantage…

        But I don't see women giving men the same courtesy…

        Especially in the courtship phase where women be hurting the men

    • Starita34

      Great comment Most.

      Slim, did Jen really not express that she wanted a relationship with you any time in that 7 months that ya'll were involved? I find that so hard to fathom. I could never. You're lucky if you get 4 weeks in with me without me saying, "so um, #WhatThatCommitmentDo?"

  • Mix

    I'm riding with slim on this one. I have been on both sides of this one, never went as far as ol' girl went though. And I have learned a few things being in slim shoes and in the young ladies shoes: 1. I hate it when i am really clear about my feelings and intentions, and a women ignores them and hears what she wants and she takes no responibility and I'm the bad guy.

    2. No nodody likes rejection, but Women really hate rejection, it eats them alive, they start acting like the lakers were acting last night.

    3. I excercise my right to refuse service to anybody. How many times do women put men in the friend zone? You know damn well that man is feeling you.

    As far as me bein in the young lady shoes( from a man's perspective)

    1. Don't ignore your gut feeling and dont lie to yourself.

    2. Everyone doesn't look at you the same way you do.

    • I notice people left this one alone. I see it though.lol

      • Mix

        Hey I'm just telling it like it is, the real always gets ignored lol

  • NinaFontaine

    I so appreciate you writing this post because women who get themselves in these types of "relationships" need to hear this.
    Its been said since the begging of f*ckdome that a man will only do what you allow him to. Jen was fooling herself into believing that she could change Slim's mind about wanting to be in a relationship. Only he can change his mind and he did with someone else.

    I am a firm believer when a man starts off a new situation with "I'm not looking for a girl" that should tell you out the gate he really means "i'm not looking for you". Because it doesn't take all day (meaning 7 months) for him to know he wants to lock you down. Slim made a key statement he assumed she was talking to other men but never asked. A man who wants to be your man is asking questions IJS.

    Although I don't agree with how Slim went about the conversation, I don't know that Jen really wanted to hear the truth. I am a firm believer in if a man doesn't want you then work on not wanting him. Does it really matter why? especially if there was nothing technically "wrong". I think women value the opinions of men who don't care about them far too much!

    • *raises amen hand*

      basically.

    • GirlSixx is ChloeRay

      "A man who wants to be your man is asking questions"

      The Simple Truth.com

      • Ya know. I would beg to differ. I don't ask a whole lot of questions in general. The difference between whether I'm interested or not isn't in the questions I ask. It's really in what I tell you. If I like you, I will say so.

        • Starita34

          Uh, not to mention, this oncetagain requires us to use our crystal ball. Questions schmestions, use your words. Communicate.

  • max

    Okay I might be slow, but I'm a little confused. Did you not want to be with this broad because you weren't ready or because of the things you didn't like about her? And in this convo did you tell her you just weren't ready or did you explain the things you didn't like? I get the feeling from the way you wrote this that you obfuscated the real issues but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

    • I really didn't want a relationship when the situation began. Too much was going on. But once she said a few things that weren't kosher, I had one of those "yeah, even if I suddenly wanted to have a girl, it wouldn't be her" moments.

      And really, for the greater majority of people, if you interact with or hang out with someone long enough, you're bound to at least wonder somewhere along the way if it could go somewhere. At that point it just becomes a matter of whether you voice what's in your head or not.

    • Loved Max @ Broad…

  • DeKeLa

    Wow… Only 9AM EST and already 50+ post?

    I think relationships are akin to a business deal.

    You start with a set of agreements that will only be modified if both parties agree to it. If you went into the deal on unfavorable terms, it is only your fault to blame. Luckily you have the ability to break the contract, albeit with some penalties (heartbreak, dissatisfaction, unanswered questions)

    I know we look at relationships with rosey eyes, but people (especially women) need to look at relationships as business opportunities and do some cost benefit analysis, risk mitigation stratgies and ROI research. Every girl/guy you decide to give your heart to should be weighed to see if the investment will be profitable.

    In homegirl's case, there wasn't anything to invest because she approached the table offering everything and in return, agreed to getting nothing but some c0ck.

    Broken Record heard 1000s times.

    • extremely judgementa

      THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      being a female majoring in accounting and finance i co-mutha-freakin-sign!!!

      tell this to my girls all the time but ain't nobody trying to listen…smh

  • <blockquote cite="comment-311168">

    Slimuel L. Jackson:

    It’s life.

    That's the crazy part. Seems like you were upfront at the beginning with her but I guess she got into a casual relationship that she couldn't really handle.

    I tend to think that there are signs that the woman wants a little more – did you notice any of those during the 7 months?

    • Honestly, there really wasn't that much of a difference over that time. She would drop off the map for a few days and then bounce back like she was fine. That was about it.

  • I felt for the young lady in this post. I think that men do things like this quite often and the woman is left wondering why she never was good enough. Sometimes relationships like that can last for years, so exit interview nothwithstanding, I commend Slim for his honest writing about this post.

    • <blockquote cite="comment-311190">

      Slim Jackson:

      Sometimes men just enjoy the company of women without wanting all the responsibility. It’s kinda like that Little Brother line:

      I want a girl when I want a girl. And when I don’t want a girl, I want a girl that understands that.

      Trust me, there isn't a (sane) woman walking this earth that doesn't know/understand/sometimes cosign (with appropriate adjustments to gender) that statement. I been lookin for a cuddle buddy for years lol. But every1 wants to either screw like rabbits or take it to the relationship level -_- There aren't very many people (women especially) that want to play the role of "warm body" no matter what they say or how cool they pretend to be with it, and certainly not when they are getting mixed signals. If you (universal you, not you specifically) want to keep things casual then it doesn't matter what "verbal agreement" you enter into. That stuff only works (moderately at that) in the professional world. When sex, love and all that other crap are involved you gotta be 100% clear with your words AND your actions. You can't tell me you don't want a relationship, then treat me as if we're in a relationship, and expect me not to renege on catching feelings. That just not logical. And its not just a woman thing. I had a dude blowin up my phone just this past weekend on that "what happened, why did u toot it and boot it, we coulda been good together" nonsense and he was the one on the "lets keep it casual" bus and prior to this we hadn't talked for like 6 months.

      I say a lack of congruence between words and actions is the culprit here. But these things happen. You can't control who is gonna catch feelings for you (or who you'll catch feelings for) regardless of how your pseudo-relationship starts and what agreements, written or verbal, that you lay out.

  • CPT Callamity

    *Sigh*

    I've had this conversation a couple of times and I draw blanks just as brotha Slim did. Thing about it is, some chicks have some really sideways stuff that they say before the break like "I'm usually the upgrade to a dude…he'll always remember what I did for him." Too bad that is the furthest from the truth. Of course, these chicks go on to be with a dude (and usually wind up pregnant) and come back and ask me why I didn't try to take them seriously.

    In all honesty, I make my choice to be with a chick very early on based on a couple of different behaviors. If I see she is deficient in even the smallest things like being on time when we agree to go out, actually making time for me, not testing me with little slick [email protected] out the mouth or just simply being a pleasant woman then I will leave her where she stands. If she's not doing it for me, I let her know and make it solid that there will be no relationship. A lot of these chicks fell short, so I'm glad when they move on and get the baby daddy they deserve. When the question of "why come not me" rolls around…I remain honest and usually there are no hurt feelings. Slight bruising of the ego but they don't hate me afterwards.

  • Hugh Jazz

    It's difficult to go in too hard on Jenn (insert joke about how Slim did that already here). She met a good guy, lost him, and presumably wanted to know what to do to avoid whatever mistakes she made in the future. In all honesty, it's a mature thing to do. Because Slim is a good guy, she figured she could get an honest answer from him.

    But what some women don't realize is good guys don't want to hurt women, and we hate this conversation months after the fact, especially when we felt we provided closure or were upfront with what we wanted in the first place. No one likes to be put on the spot, especially with someone you're not even in a relationship with. Explaining why you prefer one woman over another is sometimes like explaining why you like the color blue more than the color green. Nothing's wrong with green, you just like blue more (that analogy made sense in my head). You don't have to necessarily do anything wrong, someone else might just be more compatible.

    • Thank you for saying this. This is spot-on.

      • Ariana

        I have to say I don't agree that Mr. Jackson was upfront with Jen in the first place. He told her the issue was one of timing when it was one of compatibility. There is a difference here. I think that men freak out a little too much when thinking about the possibility of "hurting" a woman's feelings. Truth is, had Jen been told from the beginning, "Hey, I just don't think we're a good match for a relationship," she would have moved on. But that's not what was said. You don't have to go into gory details in telling someone why you don't want to be with them. But you should at least get the category of reason correct so there are no misunderstandings. Being simple, but truthful is the best bet.

        Also, I think that men have to be more honest within themselves as to why they often don't want to tell the truth. If he told Jen that, essentially, he wasn't into her *like that* she would have undoubtedly bounced and he wouldn't have gotten to have sex with her like he wanted to. Telling her that it was just a timing thing keeps her around while avoiding an actual relationship.

        Look, I get that people can be obtuse and see what they want to see in a purely casual relationship. But please don't act as if men don't have anything to gain from making sure things stay just a little cloudy as to where things stand. Because if they were clear, well, the woman wouldn't be interested in that "friendship" anymore.

        Please, don't be cowardly. Own your choices and don't be afraid to say why you made it–and not just on a blog for goodness sake! Clearly Jen didn't hurt any less because you didn't tell the truth from the start.

        • Starita34

          "Also, I think that men have to be more honest within themselves as to why they often don’t want to tell the truth. If he told Jen that, essentially, he wasn’t into her *like that* she would have undoubtedly bounced and he wouldn’t have gotten to have sex with her like he wanted to. Telling her that it was just a timing thing keeps her around while avoiding an actual relationship."

          #False

          We stay all the time in turribo situations. We will sleep with a guy that has NO potential MUCH sooner than a guy that has great potential the great majoity of the time. We're almost MORE likely to stay with guys that tell us the ugly truth. We just put them in a different category…for as long as our hormones will allow it…

  • RC Turi

    This is where women fail.

    If a man says to me that he's not looking for a relationship, I believe him. I always tell my friends that if they still decide to get involved with a man who says this, and they are in agreement with him at the time, don't expect his feelings to change also in the event theirs does.

    I always tend to believe that if a man tells me he's not looking for a relationship it also means he isn't looking for one with me. This is where Jenn messed up. Slim's not looking for a relationship at all also meant he was not looking for a relationship with her. This is why I will not play the pseudo-girlfriend to a man unless I know for sure that I don't want him for a relationship. I am not going to sleep with a man who I know feels inside that I'm not "good" enough for him and I'm not in the business of changing minds.

    I'm good.

    Also, the phone call to ask why she wasn't good enough? Not happening. I definitely do not see a situation like this as reason enough to cast aside my pride. Not even my style. There are too many men out there.

    • extremely judgementa

      sweety (i hope you don't mind me calling you that), you and me are >>>>here<<<< with everything you said!

      • RC Turi

        Thanks! πŸ™‚

      • RC Turi

        Cool! πŸ™‚

  • Sade

    Firstly, I cosign every comment starita has made on this post…

    Secondly, When I enter a relationship, I try and make sure all parties know about the fine print…

    Terms and Conditions are subject to change at any time, without notice. All parties shall be notified of said changes and given an appropriate timeframe to either agree to new terms or keep it moving.

    • cynicaloptimist81

      So true…

    • Starita34

      *daps*

  • This is always a tough situation.

    However, women (and men) must know that although you weren't "good enough" for him you are and will be for another man/woman.

    • Natasha

      I really wanna "like" this post 1,000 times πŸ™‚

    • Starita34

      How does this only have 2 likes!?!

      Well stated! #TweetinIt

  • first let me say this is a great post. i've had that conversation more times than i've cared to have. what sucks is when you're upfront with a woman from the beginning and she acts like you lead her on. let me tell you a story of this one woman whom i'm cool with.

    we met and were attracted to each other from the beginning. even though there was a physical attraction there i knew that we would never be together. i told her that even though i enjoyed her company and spending time with her that would be the furthest we would go. eventually she wanted more. i couldn't give her more then she became distant and then all together stopped talking to me. i was cool with her decision. i moved on. i eventually made someone else my girlfriend and then she got mad. she asked why i didn't want her. i told her the truth. i didn't think she was girlfriend material (at least for me). she took it hard and stopped talking me period. she warmed up to me again when she started talking to other guys. i know this because she would ask me for advice about situations. i didn't care either way and gave the best advice i could. she still asks from time to time why we never worked.

    • Appreciate the comment team.

    • TelltheTruth

      I was that girl before and I am thankful I'm not anymore.

      <blockquote cite="comment-311289">

      MadScientist7:

      she would ask me for advice about situations. i didn’t care either way and gave the best advice i could. she still asks from time to time why we never worked.

      Its funny because I am FWB with a guy now and I ask his advice about men I meet and/or date and its cool. The thing is he never wants to talk to me about who he's dating. What's that about?

      On her still asking…………she still has major feelings for you! Be careful with that

    • 05girl

      <<i>>

      I just wonder if those were your exact words ("THIS is as far as it will go [because I do not feel you are the right one for me]"). Part of the problem with the "talk" is that folks aren't direct enough in what they want/don't want. You say it in roundabout ways that can lead to different interpretations.

      • Ariana

        Agreed.

  • Kema

    "I used to think that I wasn't fun enough

    And I used to think that I wasn't wild enough

    But I wont waste my time tryna figure out

    Why you playing games whats this all about

    And I cant believe you're hurting me

    I met your girl what a difference

    What u see in her you aint seee in me

    But I guess it was all just make believe

    Ooh love" Keisha Cole

    Yes I have been Jen before. I've wonderend why I wasnt good enough for a man I thought was perfect for me.

    Then I think about all the guys that were perfect for me on paper but somehow just didnt do it for me. It wasnt that they were not good enough… Just not for me. When I reverse the situation it allows me to see things clearly and keep my ego intact.

  • this is why i don't participate in FWB situations. someone will always end up wanting more and someone will always end up being hurt, because if they were "good enough" to be a relationship with, you wouldn't consider even placing them in a FWB situation anyhow. i'm of the belief that men know pretty quickly what they want from you, and if they want a relationship, they have no qualms about making that known. you don't have to convince them, or wonder what they want. at all.

    • NinaFontaine

      I agree ……… if we're having chex we are more than friends and I make it extremely clear!

  • Tiffany In Houston

    1) Women: listen to what men SAY and not what you think you want to hear.

    2) Men: have the nuts to move around and quit f*cking (literally) with women you know you really don't want to be with long term. There is too much ass in the world, if you just want to smash.

    Slim, you are lucky she didn't go psycho on you.

    At some point, some in the situation has to be a REAL adult about it and get to the end game.

  • This is definitely one of the tuffest posts I've read on this site.

    Personally, I have too much pride to make that phonecall. It might be one of 7 deadly sins, but pride helps me get over a lot of stuff, and in tune fosters confidence and arrogance to say "their loss" and to upgrade to a better person.

    When men aren't ready for a relationship, women won't be able to change that directly. Something has to change in a man for them to turn the corner and want to be in a relationship. It doesn't matter when you sleep with them, doesn't matter how real you keep it with them!

    Whether you're the bourgeose chick or the "cool one of the guys chick", the chick he's known for a week or a year, whether you can cook in the kitchen or the bedroom it DOESNT MATTER!

    Only men can make that decision, and often enough its right place, wrong time.

    I've also seen comments about "How can you be dealing with someone for 7 mons and not catch feelings. Let me break this down:

    Theres average of 30 days in a month. If slim is hanging with shorty, and still seeing other people, you have to figure that at most they chill 1-2 days out of the month.

    If its booty calls, then the number could increase. Lets say 4-5 sessions a month.

    Now, if you multiply the 7 months, by 4 days a month chilling thats 28 days or roughly one Black History Month of chilling within 7 months.

    You talk about playing house. Well, if all they were doing was boning and talking, then is that the part of house reserved for a side chick or mistress? Doesnt seem to be fronting on slims end.

    Furthermore, how could Slim lead her on if ALL THEY DO IS BONE! Now, if they are going on dates, movies, etc etc then you MIGHT have an alternative case. If they gchat and text daily, that's still irrelevant because to my understanding, gchat allows for multiple conversations at once to occur, same as other messaging applications.

    I say this to show that it's easy to assume a dude can give a false sense of "getting closer to a woman" through actions, but when you evaluate the context of the actions, you can get to the actual substance and determine if there was a real cause for belief that Slim gave nonverbal cues that he wanted more, or gave that impression in appearance.

    QED

  • mizcynic

    poor girl.but does this mean that wen u start catching feelings for a fwb,u should just bail!!!!isn't it possible that he might be catching feelings too???

  • mizcynic

    <blockquote cite="comment-311208">

    NinaFontaine: I so appreciate you writing this post because women who get themselves in these types of “relationships” need to hear this.Its been said since the begging of f*ckdome that a man will only do what you allow him to. Jen was fooling herself into believing that she could change Slim’s mind about wanting to be in a relationship. Only he can change his mind and he did with someone else.I am a firm believer when a man starts off a new situation with “I’m not looking for a girl” that should tell you out the gate he really means “i’m not looking for you”. Because it doesn’t take all day (meaning 7 months) for him to know he wants to lock you down. Slim made a key statement he assumed she was talking to other men but never asked. A man who wants to be your man is asking questions IJS.Although I don’t agree with how Slim went about the conversation, I don’t know that Jen really wanted to hear the truth. I am a firm believer in if a man doesn’t want you then work on not wanting him. Does it really matter why? especially if there was nothing technically “wrong”. I think women value the opinions of men who don’t care about them far too much!another major difference between men and women

    • NinaFontaine

      Not sure I'm follow the difference you are pointing out?

      • NinaFontaine

        *following

  • hotscott

    I'm wondering why Jen is still wondering what could have been instead of moving on to someone she is amazing enough for? Not that I don't sympathize with Jen its just that I've witnessed this train wreck up close and personal with a close friend of mine not once but twice. She was the cool low maintenance kick back and watch ESPN after funtime girl-the next thing she knew he tells her he's getting married to an ex that atomic dogged him, and wanted to still be friends with her. To this day she's confused about what happened…I need to choose my friends more wisely.

    That being said Slim owed her nothing. If the upfront agreement was to kick it and provide bed Zumba…then she got what she agreed to…when she found herself scribbling Mrs Slim Jackson on meeting notes she should have either requested contract negotiations or bowed out gracefully. Theses are my opinions.

    • Starita34

      "when she found herself scribbling Mrs Slim Jackson on meeting notes"

      LMAO!

      Not that I've ever done this. *shifty eyes*

      • Starita34

        ARGH with the double posts!!

        *le sigh*

  • TKO-Curly

    WOW! @ the comments.

    But this post brought back memories of last relationship. We were trying to have a relationship but the timing wasn't right. We broke up which you could say was kinda a mutual but not. It really hurt when three weeks after I saw him and his new girlfriend walking around campus holding hands and being a couple in the open. It pained and I had to do everything in my power not to become the angry ex because I felt betrayed.

    I confronted him about the new relationship and his reason was that he didn't plan on getting into a relationship so soon it just happened. When I asked why we didn't work out he respond by saying he didn't know. When I heard those words thats when I knew I had to let go and stop stressing about why I wasn't good enough because he didn't know his damn self and he had already moved on.

    I understand Jennifer pain but getting a answer about why it didn't work wouldn't have hurt less than not getting answer. If she did get a reason it would just be more shit for her to stress over and compare herself to the current girlfriend. And sometimes women just want to hear that it wasn't their fault.

  • hotscott

    <blockquote cite="comment-311319">

    I guess I don't understand if its entered into as a fwb arrangement why would all or even a good amount of your free time be spent with the person? I think that's where the lines get crossed. If we just phucking my phucking hours are between 10pm and 12am. Anything outside of those hours require new understanding of what this is.
    cynicaloptimist81:
    Personally, I just want men to treat/read women according to how WE operate. Again, y’all can s.ex and cuddle with a woman that’s okay enough over a 7 month period and not catch feelings but we don’t operate like that! I don’t care what she said, lol. We just can’t do it. Our head and heart gets confused between the 2nd & 3rd month!

    Correct me if I’m wrong, ladies, but most woman cannot s.ex and cuddle with a ‘okay enough’ guy for an extended period of time. If we’re spending the majority of our free time with you and giving up the cookie (lol), it’s cause we really, REALLY like you and we want more…and not just more s.ex.

    I’m not saying she shouldn’t hold herself accountable for not being honest with herself…and pulling a semi-desperate move. She should…she really should.

    But, you fellas need to do a better job of acknowledging and accepting the truth about how a woman’s sacred place is tied to her emotions.

    A 2-3 month window is about all you’ve got, fellas, lol. That’s the time to get out of dodge or you WILL have to deal with her emotional attachment to you.

    • Starita34

      10 pm to midnight? [email protected], tight window. Pause.

      • TellyLongLegs

        I thought the same thing. I thought it would at least be to 4 a.m.

  • hotscott

    I guess I don't understand if its entered into as a fwb arrangement why would all or even a good amount of your free time be spent with the person? I think that's where the lines get crossed. If we just phucking my phucking hours are between 10pm and 12am. Anything outside of those hours require new understanding of what this is.
    But then again this could just be my opinion because I buried my emotions in a safe place a long time ago…

    • lol @ my "phucking hours are…" I totally agree.

  • The term "friends with benefits" makes me cringe everytime I hear it. Am I the only one who truly believes that friends should never ever ever ever ever ever have sex?!

    If you continue an on-going sexual relationship with a friend then he/she is no longer a friend. I consider that a "lover".

    I learned the hard way that fwb doesn't work for me at all. I have so much respect for the men that were straight up with me from the beginning–they allowed me to decide what I wanted to do.

    • TelltheTruth

      Nope I agree with you completely – I tell men ALL THE TIME "I don't phuck my friends". It separates the real from the fake VERY quickly!

  • cynicaloptimist81

    First, great post, Slim!

    Despite my comments upthread, I actually have WAY too much pride to be Jenn at this age, lol. When I'm certain a man doesn't want anything real from me, it's an automatic turn off…like seriously. A major part of my attraction to a man is mutual, real, sincere interest on a deep level.

    When my feelings begin to get ahead of the reality of my dealings with a guy, I automatically pull back for as long as I need to (forever, days, weeks, etc.)…until my feelings are back in check and my perception of the relationship is not altered by fantasy. In just about every instance that I had to pull back, it always made the guy give more of himself. It made him re-evaluate what he wanted from me…causing him to come back to me to renegotiate the terms.

    Also, there's this little thing called mirroring. Women should NEVER do any more or give any more than what the man is doing or giving. If he texts you right back, do the same. If he walks his calls out of the room, do the same. If he's texting all thru your QT, do the same! Mirroring helps to keep your mind from falling for what a relationship could be because your constantly making choices based on what the relationship is. Mirroring doesn't guarantee that your feelings won't get ahead of the situation…but it sure helps.

  • Men give themselves all types of reasons to not be at fault for some things. I'll be the one to keep it real. Women have endorphins and oxytocins. Once you start having relations, they can't help but catch feelings unless they got a chemical inbalance. And isn't that odd, that you would have relations with someone and your body's reaction to letting someone inside of you releases hormones of affection. After all what can come of a little s*x other than a kid or a life threatening injury?

    This my point. I really disagree with a lot of the dudes here today. That's cool though. For starters you know that women are wired in a way to grow feelings for the man they sleeping with on a regular basis. Men don't peep it because we sleeping with multiple women, but a woman might only be sleeping with you, or you're her #1 and those other guys is just to pass the time. Another thing i'm seeing here a lot today is about she never said nothing… don't give me that BS, people have non-verbal communication too. And you know it, if not then you are reducing yourself to caveman status. Pick your position. Most dudes know that the chick is developing feelings, or they have overwhelming evidence to suggest that she is and they just be n*ggas and don't do nothing about it. Later they'll raise a "she's passive" card. Nah son, keep it trilla.

    If NOT, if you are like, nah she wasn't giving me no signs whatsoever then you should have concluded that something was wrong with her. If you thinking to yourself, "This chick going to let me hit for 7 months and she don't want nothing" something usually wrong with the chick. That really only works for breezies and women who say they focused on their career and all that means is high class lose women. Don't try me on this paragraph either because I can go on for days about women who have s*x-only relationships and something wrong with them.

    Oh and shenanigans on this story, wasn't only a physical relationship. Why this chick feel like she can even talk to you this way? You said quality time but only in the bedroom, you didn't say all we did was have s*x. Y'all probably had small talk here and there or spent what would have been the equivalent of playing WWF for hours with each other. You guys probably had deep conversations about something and that made her start liking the way you think because it obviously couldn't be because she was like, "I want you to be my boyfriend because you come over here and blow my back out and then leave without even the decency to take off your Jordan 9s."

    • well damn. I'm still stuck on "high class, loose women" ….Yikes. Are those the one's that declare they hate kids and don't ever want any?

      All you said here, really shed some light on what men know, which is way more than I thought.

    • cynicaloptimist81

      If I could, Dr. J, I'd give you some dap for this.

      I couldn't agree with you more…

    • NinaFontaine

      <blockquote cite="comment-311358">

      Dr. J:

      , “This chick going to let me hit for 7 months and she don’t want nothing” something usually wrong with the chick.That really only works for breezies and women who say they focused on their career and all that means is high class lose women.Don’t try me on this paragraph either because I can go on for days about women who have s*x-only relationships and something wrong with them.

      ALL OF THIS!!! I think I'm in lub Dr J.

    • Business Beauty

      I agree with you all the way J!! "High class.. loose women" lol wow. @Mika: I for one dont want any children and Im not a "loose woman" but I really do understand your point. Its amazing to hear men know THIS much but act as if they know nothng.. At my age you have to just be straight up; if you like someone tell them. Life is too short to waste time trying to "figure it out". Slim knew well ahead of time she wasnt for him. He didnt have to tell her (because lets face it we as human beings do what we want to do) but if she really wanted to know, at some point in those 7 months she could have asked. "Ask and you shall recieve" lol the truths hurts.

    • I cosign with some of this comment, but you are assuming that dudes are fronting when they say that they ddin't know shorty wanted more.

      Isnt it funny how women will cosign a chemical imbalance for them catching feelings more than men, but will get upset when we blame the same chemical imbalance (period) for why they get angry? Thats Shenanigans!

      I still say that if any women will cosign a FWB situation, and don't let a dude know whats good, its on them. Taking an altruistic approach, if a man sees signs that a woman is getting more affectionate, closer, etc, then he has a right to her and to the friendship[/whatever they have to bring it up see whats good, or remove themselves from the situation!

      You say men dont see this because they're sleeping with multiple women, while women are only sleeping with them. This is a BIG assumption! Women give off the impression that they lock down the cooch for one dude when that might be farthest from the truth. Taking the chem imbalance theory to another level, these same chicks who will only sleep with one dude, knowing he has multiple partnes, will most likely have a hobby dude on the side, or a dude who they get the emotional connection from that they might hope for from the cat that they are sleeping with.

      There's blame and responsibility on both sides, but without communication all you get is assumptions, and you know what happens when we assume!

      • I agree. I've noticed that a large part of the time while agreeing to a FwB situation, they ARE indeed involved only with one guy. However, they CHOSE that method. It's usually they start comparing the random guys they meet to the guy their smashing and they use that guy as an excuse not to be open to advances to other men knowing good and well it'll increase the likelihood of them catching feelings mostly due to the fact that they will begin to look to dude their smashing for "quality time."

        The act of turning away other men, simulates the procedure of a dating situation getting serious. They'll do that to simulate progressive exclusiveness for whatever purpose.

        It's a self psyche out… Before they know it, they're already exclusive. But they are exclusive by themselves. So when a guy backs out the situation, to the woman it clearly looks like the guy is throwing away a possibility for a relationship. The fact is that one wasn't in the picture from the beginning.

      • A shorty did that to me in college. She did it to convince herself that she could handle the situation. Because I was at a point in my life where I was not going to have a girl. Everytime she said it, I would just be like, "this sounds rehearsed," but you know what I did? Nothing. She played her part too. She even acted like she was talking to other dudes, didn't even mind me talking to other chicks, she acted like the entire thing was strictly physical. I could tell she had feelings though because she would react to things oddly. Like she would get upset because I told her we would chill, but then I ended up going another route that night, like she wasn't mad at me for nothing but the fact that I said we would chill. (But I never said when, but she said she was relying on me, dique.) She just started acting weird. Then one day like 6 months into that situation, she said, "I think I want a boyfriend."

        I just said, "Word" and that was it.

        Nah I agree with you on the women sleeping with only one dude assumption. I think I said that they will sleep with only him or have a backup plan for him. I told my homegirls yesterday that chicks have three dudes they sleeping with: (1) The dude they want to be with, but he either got a girl, or he not trying to be tied down, but they still really like him, so they let him hit whenever their self-esteem ain't in tip top shape (this is pretty much all the time except on her birthday and NYE, NYE is good for raising your self-esteem and proclaiming you not going to deal with that dude no more.) (2) The dude who will be there for them, he might not even be a simp, just the guy they can rely on, he still has no chance in the long run, because even if he wife her down, she will still let that #1 hit. (3) The dude she had the most sexual chemistry with, but they know they would never be in a relationship with him.

        • GirlSixx is ChloeRay

          whenever their self-esteem ain’t in tip top shape (this is pretty much all the time except on her birthday and NYE, NYE is good for raising your self-esteem and proclaiming you not going to deal with that dude no more.)

          Dr. J you crazy!!!!! *smhlmao*

    • Starita34

      You smell that? That's real talk. And it smells so good.

    • SaneN85

      I liked your comment and whatnot, but I disagree with this statement, "I can go on for days about women who have s*x-only relationships and something wrong with them." #thatisall

    • I somewhat agree with what you're saying, J, but it seems like your original response puts all the responsibility on the men. Fin, I'll concede the rush of dopamine and oxytocin that's released(though honestly the bulk of that release is following orgasm, not a consistent supply all the time) if you want to go with the neurotransmitter and hormonal response. But what about her decision to stay in the situation. If she catches feelings and doesn't say anything… why does it become my problem. If you agreed to the terms of the contract when it was signed, and then you want to change the deal but never speak up…. who's fault is that. Even if I pick up on the fact, I can very well dismiss it by thinking, well if it were really a concern, shed say something. I find it very ironic women call for men to keep it real and communicate, but then keep their mouths shut when they want something different in the relationship.

  • NinaFontaine

    it makes me cringe too I don't think there is such a thing as FWB

  • sasha

    Good post. This situation you describe just recently happened to a friend of mine but I'm convinced she just chooses to ignore certain things so she ends up in a cyclical relationship pattern. I liked how the point of the post stressed was to yourself because its true.

  • MizzJones16

    After lurking for 2 plus semi years I have to de-lurk for this topic at hand (waiting for Sane to welcome me lol). I’ve been here and it definitely brings back unwarranted memories. In college I caught up in the FwB, telling myself there was no way that I was going to catch feeling. Negative, it lasted almost 3 years all the while being naïve and being a little bug in his ear with “when are we going to get into a relationship”. Maybe close to a year later we graduated got into a relations and getting married this year. Talk about a slap in the face and found my self asking “Why wasn’t I good enough?”.

    Needless to say, I never got that “closure” even after much probing, to say I was hurt was an understatement, he basically sliced my heart into pieces with a machete. I blamed him for everything, but the reality of it all it was all me. I sold myself short. All the times I asked “why we couldn’t be?” and he told me the truth, I should have listened. I knew that we could me more if we just spent x amount of times together. Then I became mad at him for leading me on, but he didn’t, I made up these falsified situations. There were feelings there on both of our parts just not enough for it to go further for him.

    At the end of the day as much as I wanted the true answer to why I wasn’t good enough, in my heart I didn’t. He was honest with me from the beginning with what he wanted out of this so called “unofficial relationship” and I chose to ignore it. I want to say that he spared my feelings by not being completely honest and I guess in a way I respect him for that. I know there are females that probably will disagree with me on him not being completely honest, but if he was it probably would’ve made that situation far worse.

    I will take this as a lesson learned and I wish him all the best. Great post Slim, even thought it brought back painful memories.

    • Starita34

      2 1/2 years of lurking? *brushes dirt off your clothes and hands you sunglasses* Don't worry, your eyes will adjust to the light with time. Thanks for coming out and great 1st comment! Sane will be by shortly with refreshments. πŸ˜‰

      • MizzJones16

        Thanks!

    • I can do the welcoming too. Welcome to the mix. Hope the comment felt cathartic even though the memories were painful.

      • Starita34

        D*mn, you weren't kidding about the thumbs down for everythang. Can he WELCOME someone!?!? Geesh.

  • cynicaloptimist81

    Slim (and all other men) need to admit that the reason they dish out statements like "I don't want a relationship right now" to women is because they know full well that if they said "I don't want a relationship with you…ever", they'd no longer be able to have s.ex with her (in most cases)…which is ultimately what they want to do…have s.ex with her when he wants to…the ability to chill with her is just an added bonus.

    It's not about not hurting her feelings. It's about being able to get what you want out of her without feeling like a complete jerk…since you kinda told her the truth.

    Lame. Lame. Lame.

    The "Jenn's" of the world are wrong, yes…and so are YOU.

    • Or…just maybe women could take the statement at face value. If I met you and say I dont want a relationship that is my current truth. If I happen to meet some one hours days, or weeks later and decide I want a real relationship then I don't have to tell you for real. Stop getting mad at dudes for sticking to the contract that you agreed upon because you caught feelings.

      Control has nothing to do with it.

      • cynicaloptimist81

        Whatever you have to tell yourself to sleep at night is alright with me, Sir Animate, lol.

        Look, one thing I haven't commented on is whether or not Jenn was owed an explanation…I don't think I can say that. It would have been nice…but, you're right, "I don't HAVE to tell you for real".

        However, subtle manipulation has EVERYTHING to do with it…it's a way to continue to have your way.

        At the point that you KNOW the woman is lying…and it always comes…your continued participation makes you just as wrong when it comes to the outcome. Why would you even want to deal with the emotions that come with a female you don't want a relationship with when all you have to do is opt out once you realize she's now too emotionally far gone and the contract is now shot to hell??? Just be a gentleman and let the girl go…whether she's ready to admit that she's over-committed or not…

        Your refusal to see both sides of the issue is comical…yet baffling, lol.

        I'd respect you guys more if you just said, "Yeah, I still wanted the booty so if she was cool with lying, I was cool with it too. And what?!" At least be real in these e-streetz…

        It's a ni@@a move and you know it…

        • I agree to a point. A man has to be vigilant of the state of the person they are intimate with. Though that doesn't mean a man will always be aware. Women will hide their feelings so the guy won't disappear. Can you blame them? Yes! I'm sorry but if I'm not committed to you, I come first. So women who chose to put themselves in these types of emotionally compromising situations are at fault.

          Men manipulate women. Women manipulate men but women also manipulate themselves. Faking out everyone involved… Time and time again do women choose the most hurtful path to themselves and the ones around them simply because they didn't want to be honest with themselves. Did I notice a woman catching feelings? yeah, once. She didn't want to renegotiate the agreement, so I didn't care. Not once have a woman been straight up and said: "Yo, let's take another look at this agreement…" or "I would like to make some changes…" or "Some things have changed for me, let's talk about it…" NOT ONCE.

        • cynicaloptimist81

          I can get with that, MeteorMan.

          Regardless of the type of relationship it is, it takes two people to make it whatever it is. The Jenn's are dead wrong. I just think it's unfortunate and disheartening that more men don't see the part they shared in it. I think it's noble of you to accept the responsibility of being vigilant of the emotional state of the person you are being intimate with. πŸ™‚ If only more men did this…

          I just believe that the dating world would be a better place if both men & women weren't ambiguous in their dealings with each other. Wishful thinking, I know…

    • I can stand as a witness to say that I've said "“I don’t want a relationship right now" once and it didn't mean HER specifically. It was general. Though when I wanted a relationship, she ended up as my GF.

      • cynicaloptimist81

        Cool!

        And I can say that I've backed off from guys when I felt myself catching feelings, told them the truth regarding why I backed off, and both did the work to draw me back in under a new GF contract! So, I feel you on that. I also recognize that it was grace that made me the exception to the 'contracts rarely change' rule, lol…two times at that! Won't be trying my luck a third time though.

        But, I also know guys who knowingly sold women half truths to string women along. It happens…and when it happens, he's at fault for false advertising (Chilligan's Island, anyone, lol?) and she's at fault for buying (paying for a vacation you saw on a cereal box…really, lol).

  • 05girl

    Good, thought-provoking post that hit close to home. You should have told the truth, in detail. That's what would have helped her move on. What was wrong with pointing out her judgemental ways? It also seems like there wasn't enough "checking in" throughout the relationship.. obviously she caught feelings AFTER the initial conversation. It's hard to believe you were surprised at her reaction.

  • Great post Slim!

    It's good that many women choose the path of introspection. But in Jen's case, it's not closure or a push for self improvement. It's purely some self pity ish since there was never a possibility for a relationship. I know it's hard for women to understand this concept, but honestly sometimes it's not about you. Everything that occurs within a man's mind may not be caused or in reference to you or some other woman. So asking a man to explain basically why he didn't change his mind when smashing you to make you a GF is nonsensical. However, if there was the potential of a relationship (or if there was one) it makes perfect sense to ask a man why he backed out.

  • nianeek

    Damn, I feel for old girl….but
    What IS this truth thing everyone looks for? Truth in words, truth in action? All still truth. How many days does a dude have to not speak to a woman before she realize she's not a priority? One, two, seven days…Idk. This is a variable only you can determine for yourself. How many crack calls do you respond to before realizing the dude is convenient when he needs a hit? Bed room talk and small talk is great but let's not forget the set up. Most woman can't deal with a straight talker. People can come up with many reasons for not wanting to be bothered and that's their prerogative. Shoot when the shoe is on the other foot do I feel better explaining where I was coming from? Does the man after being in the know? No, hopefully that transition moves along swift and peacefully.
    I've been both Slim and Ms. Jen and experience is a teacher. I would've been accepting new applicants for love manager. When a person is about you, you'll see it. They call in-between all the other stuff they have to do. You have their attention and when that falls off know and recognize what it is.
    Slim hit it out the park with this one…..wait. I meant, nice post Slim, way to go getting folks charged up for Monday.

    • Starita34

      Great questions in this post. I too have been both Slim and Jenn (my apologies for spelling your name wrong allll day Jenn, my bad) and my rule of thumb when I was playing the part of Slim was to treat Jenn the way that I'd want to be treated. I was a bit harsh for his liking, but I held back a lot. "I don't want you" is never going to sound good, but some times it needs to be said in no uncertain terms. When I did send conflicting messages to my Jenn, I can admit it was mostly selfishness. I enjoyed all the adoration and benefits of having someone that's head over heals for you, but in the end, I respected him enough to let him go.

    • Shaun

      The real issue is that most women aren't taught how to date…especially in the Blk community. We're taught that a lady doesn't keep the company of many men…which can have several meanings. Anyway, as a result women are much more eager to settle for a guy without exploring a) other men b) whether or not he's truly compatible. We really need to take a lesson from the guys and take our time in selecting partners.

  • <blockquote cite="comment-311414">

    Starita34: “when she found herself scribbling Mrs Slim Jackson on meeting notes”LMAO!Not that I’ve ever done this. *shifty eyes*

    hahaha I see im not the only one who found this hilarious.

  • AJ

    Okay, I haven't read all of the comments, but I just want to say that in this situation, it seems that the issue was not simply the girl catching feelings. Yeah, that happened, but the REAL issue was that Slim said that he didn't want to be in a relationship then turned around & got into one. The girl interpreted that statement is that he wasn't quite ready for a relationship yet, possibly because he still wanted to sew his wild oats. What he should have said was that he didn't want to be in a relationship WITH HER. I guarantee that she wouldn't have done the FWB thing with him if she knew the issue was her personality & not his emotional immaturity.

    • Thanks for the comment. I do have a couple issues with this.

      1. The majority of men are never gonna say "I don't want a relationship with you." As a matter of fact, most people in general wouldn't utter these words unless the situation was bad. If I'm feeling a general way about something, why would I make it specific to her? That's borderline insulting to tell someone who didn't even ask about a relationship until it was already over.

      2. I'm tired of immaturity being thrown around when someone doesn't agree with how a situation was handled. I'd venture to say that it's emotionally immature to let yourself get caught up with somebody that's clearly stated they're not interested in anything.

      Yall kill me with that foolishness.

    • Man miss me with that. Slim stayed he wasn't interested in a relationship. They enjoyed each others company for sometime and then were not talking for a while. Then she pops up out the blue. Dont make it like he told her on tuesday and was in a relationship on thursday.

      By your logic he is wrong at any point that he got into a relationship with someone in the future. GTFOH

      • AJ

        Wow, men really don't listen. First, Slim said that "She was right, but I just wasn’t completely feeling it. And yet, here I was trying to explain why I had opted out of a potential relationship with her IN ORDER TO PURSUE SOMETHING SPECIAL WITH SOMEONE ELSE." That sounds to me like he left her alone (someone he didn't want to be with) to be with someone that he did. My point was that he told her he wasn't ready to be in a relationship, which wasn't the truth. The truth was that he didn't want to be in a relationship WITH HER. So that's what he should have said.

        @ Slim, clearly no one wants to say that, but that was indeed the truth . . . according to what you wrote in your post anyway. So don't act like you were all up front when you weren't. You didn't have to be cold & say it like that. You could have said something along the lines of "I don't like you like that." Or whatever. But the point is that you misrepresented (not saying that you did it on purpose) your feelings. You stated that you weren't ready for a relationship, which implied that you weren't ready for ANY serious relationship. Again, that wasn't the case: you just didn't want one with her.

        • Kema

          I feel you AJ… I was thinking the same thing. Not that what Slim did was awful its just that he cant really claim full disclosure when there wasnt.

        • Look, like someone else posted. If at some point I decide I want to be in a relationship during outre agreement the woman sites not automatically get bumped to front of the line.

          Besides this was a 7 month period. Am I aupposes to give you weekly relationship readiness updates?

        • Ariana

          I totally agree with AJ. This blogpost was posted on a women's forum, and I said on there that I didn't think what Slim said in the blog was terrible. But still, it is.not.difficult to say, "I don't think we're compatible." This is totally appropriate once you know there are feelings and expectations forming on both sides.

  • thatsjustlife

    My first time commenting πŸ™‚ this hit home because I was in a similar situation. We were doing fen and I caught feelings after he explicitly told me he was "not a good guy" and doesn't know how to do the monogamy thing. (I was 19 lol don't judge me too harshly) so of course after about a month I caught feelings anyway, but I let him know I liked him and that we shouldn't continue. But I guess he wasn't willing to give up the benefits at the time and convinced me that he wouldn't hurt me, wouldn't see anyone else, asked me to give it a chance and against my better judgement I did. We basically moved in together (we were in college) and the next 2 months were great but "out of the blue" he broke up with me, going back to that same old thing that he wasn't ready to be committed. A month later he was in a relationship, both on campus & facebook and I was so heartbroken & humiliated. I cried for months wondering why I wasn't good enough, what I didn't do enough etc. 3 months later he did the same thing to her! lol the evil part of me was happy, but it also showed me that when someone tells you who are they are…believe them. Even if their actions don't match their words there must be a reason they're trying to portray this image…reasons I can't be bothered to get into or try to psychologize. "when a person wants you nothing can keep them away, when they don't nothing can make them stay." You can't see smoke & be surprised that theres a fire. At some point you play a part in your own turmoil —

    • Welcome!

      **Waits for the person that went through and disliked all my comments no matter they said because I brought back memories.**

  • nianeek

    This one smash or dating one person at a time has lead me and my friends to the following formula for deading everyone but that gem of a boo….idk about y'all experience is a mother f*ing teacher…
    We don't need to have a convo about exclusively if the following elements aren't present: chemistry, communication, consideration, cooperation, and consistency….see that last C is the trump though. Without that, you free to date as many as you like….cause if the interest is genuine that will be constant….there I go on another tangent….back to the sugar fields.

  • Seems like one of those phone calls no one really wants to get. Breaks a heart, wrecks a brain. And well… no comment can pick up the pieces of Jenn's broken heart and Slim's broken mind. Um, it sucks that men and women have to go through that "s/he was great but they weren't great for me." Seems like a cop-out excuse to explain why some relationships don't work BUT it's the truth. When you don't have words to describe it, that's all it comes down to. I'm not here to preach on relationships though. I'm single and I know my "place". I just felt a dejavu-ish type of moment reading Jenn's part and then walking a mile in Slim's shoes. Long story short, it sucks. Life goes on. Hopefully, they move do too. Cheerio.

  • RC Turi

    Just because Slim was dealing with her while he didn't want a relationship doesn't mean she automatically moves to the front of the line when he decides to be in one. I can sum up my overall feelings about this whole thing in two statements.

    1. People can only do to you what you allow them to.

    2. If a woman wants a man to be obligated to her she should demand those obligations before giving pieces of herself.

    • cosign. There's no concept of first-come-first-served when searching for a mate.

    • NinaFontaine

      BINGO!!! I am a little shocked at some of the comments

    • AJ

      That's absolutely true . . . but that's not what he said. The way I read it, the "I'm not ready to be in a relationship" was not true. I understood him to say that he didn't want to be in a relationship with her. IF at 1st he really felt like he didn't want a relationship & then later changed his mind & found someone that he thought he was more compatible with then that's completely within his rights. But I didn't read it that I. I think he didn't tell her that right off because he knew she wouldn't open her legs if he felt she "wasn't good enough."

      • Larry

        @AJ

        What were you reading then? This is what I read:

        "I had dealt with Jenn for about 7 months under the agreement we were just having a good time. I told her upfront that I wasn’t looking for a girl and that I was focused on myself and ensuring that I didn’t commit to something I wasn’t ready for"

        For arguments sake let's say they started "dealing" with each other in January. He tells her in January that he is not ready to be in a relationship. Probably one of the very first conversations I'd imagine. Explain to me why that would not be true? What in there says "I don't want to be in a relationship with HER" as oppose to just one in general (truth). Now, fast forward and it's August (7 months later) and the go their separate ways. A few months later Slim starts seriously dating some other female and then Jenn calls out the blue afterwards asking him about it.

        If that doesn't sound like "at 1st he really felt like he didn’t want a relationship & then later changed his mind & found someone that he thought he was more compatible with then that’s completely within his rights" then I don't know what does.

        • Ariana

          @Larry, he explains in the blogpost what his reasons were for not pursuing a relationship with Jenn and they didn't have anything to do with relationship readiness or timing. Yes, he did have the right to change his mind, but that's not what happened here. He simply wasn't interested in a relationship with Jenn at all, for reasons that he was clearly able to articulate here. he knew that things were *never* going to progress to a relationship with Jenn, but still things progressed under the seeming understanding that the reason that he wasn't taking things further was that he didn't want a relationship in general, not that he didn't feel that they were a good match.

          His response to Jenn's phone call and explanation of his feelings about her explains what happened here. Of course people have the right to change their mind. Or sometimes you might just meet someone and are surprised that you click. Completely understandable. But if that were the case in this instance, then the above post would have said, "Yeah, I was into Jenn, but the timing was just off." Or, "I was into Jenn but then I met this other woman who just blew me away." Instead, it says, "I wasn't really into Jenn like that, but I didn't really want to tell her that."

        • Understandable but why would he need to tell Jenn that he wasn't into her like that if she hadn't ever approached the subject? She called him after the fact. Had she said something during their time dealing around, he would have given an answer and then she would have had a choice to stay in her current position or cut her losses. She can't call down the line expecting answers about a situation in which she obviously wasn't proactive.

        • Larry

          @Ariana:

          Slim's own words in a response above:

          "I really didn’t want a relationship when the situation began. Too much was going on. But once she said a few things that weren’t kosher, I had one of those “yeah, even if I suddenly wanted to have a girl, it wouldn’t be her” moments.

          That sounds like readiness and timing to me. Call me crazy. smh.

      • I understand what you are saying but I don't agree with that last bit. If she was really gunning for the girlfriend spot, she would not have consented to a FWB situation. I really believe she thought the situation was going to gradually progress into a relationship and was bothered that it did not. If she really cared whether he thought she was "good" enough or not when she met him, she would not have engaged in a physical relationship without first knowing where she stood. This is the reason why people date, this is the reason why a lot of women wait.

        There are women who feel that they will be the one to change a man's mind when they should really be reading the writing on the wall and taking heed.This is why women stay failing in the relationship game.

  • hotscott

    <blockquote cite="comment-311429">

    TellyLongLegs:

    I thought the same thing. I thought it would at least be to 4 a.m

    I keep a tight ship (kegals)

    Nope. 2 hour window. I'm not ya woman so Im not feeding you so no need to come at dinner time. By 10 pm all my shows are gone off, I've had a glass or 3 of wine and if its a week day we have work in the a.m. Both parties know what the deal is so when the other party arrives no need for idle chat because thats where things get convoluted, imo. The phone call or text would Ho s

    omething like this:

    9:30 p.m ish

    Her: hey u

    Him:hey! I was just thinking about hitting u up, what you on tonight?

    Her:*giggle* Im tryin to be on you (cowgirl)

    Him: see you in 20

    Just enough time to get to gatorades on ice in the bedroom and a quick set of stretches in.

    In a fwb agreement neither party should be accessible at all times cuz thats reserved for relationships and ish.

    The post convo:

    Whomever catches their breath first: u good?

    The other person: yeah, Im straight like a mf…

    Looks at clock, 11:56, " you need a towel?"

    .

    <blockquote cite="comment-311417">

    Starita34:

    10 pm to [email protected], tight window.Pause.

    • cynicaloptimist81

      LMBO at this convo! HA!

      No confusion there…

  • Is being in moderation like sitting in twitjail?

  • Women aren't taught how to date…especially in the black community. whaaaaat?

    (I'm done) #bye

    • Kema

      Hah! I am still working on this approaching 30.

  • Hugh Jazz

    What is with this "Slim didn’t add the 'with you' disclaimer to the 'I don’t want to be in a relationship'” madness? This is an abject attempt to deflect blame and make the Jenns of the world into victims. Regardless if a man changed his mind about wanting to be in a relationship and got with someone else, or lied about not wanting to be in a relationship, the bottom line is he told HER he doesn’t want to be in a relationship! That’s all the information she needs, because that information pertains to her.

    Even if it is assumed that Slim lied about wanting to have a relationship (which I’m only granting for the sake of argument), she still was told, in very clear and distinct language, that she wouldn’t receive a relationship out of the deal, and yet she proceeded anyway. Doesn’t matter if she was told “I don’t like you like that”, or “I don’t want to be in a relationship”. Quibbling about him being dishonest or a liar would be like the Lakers yesterday saying they got a few bad calls. So what, you lost by 36, that’s on YOU. What, do you want four points back?

    Jenn’s heartbreak is her own fault, period.

    • Ariana

      I think it depends. There is an implication there that it's about timing. I don't think that Jenn was a victim. However, obviously this situation could have been clearly avoided. If the point of the blogpost is, "Man, closure phonecalls suck," then maybe the moral of the story is, "Be truthful at the beginning and you won't get a closure phonecall several months later."

      Really, these situations are simple on both sides. Women should move on if a man is not pursuing them, period. And men should say what they mean and mean what they say if they don't want their words to bite them in the behind later on. It just isn't that complicated.

    • cynicaloptimist81

      The difference may not matter to you or others but the fact is, with some women, not making a clear distinction causes confusion. Ignoring this fact just cause they 'should' get it doesn't make it go away! "Not right now" mixed with girlfriend perks is a recipe for emotional disaster! This is a fact…regardless of fault. So, men and women should act accordingly…

    • Hugh Jazz

      <blockquote cite="comment-311586">

      Ariana: Really, these situations are simple on both sides. Women should move on if a man is not pursuing them, period. And men should say what they mean and mean what they say if they don’t want their words to bite them in the behind later on. It just isn’t that complicated.

      Agreed 100%. The thing is he did say what he meant and meant what he said. Jenn was the one that tried to take what he said and meant and turn it into something else.

      <blockquote cite="comment-311674">

      cynicaloptimist81: The difference may not matter to you or others but the fact is, with some women, not making a clear distinction causes confusion.

      If a man is sending ambiguous signals, then yes, you are correct. But he said, "I don't want to be in a relationship". I'm not sure how that isn't a "clear distinction" or how it "causes confusion".

      I: Subject of the sentence. Pronoun for Slim Jackson.

      don't: Contraction of the words "do" and "not". Negative qualifier, which means the inverse of what is to follow.

      want: Verb, meaning the need or desire for something. Combined with the previous qualifier, it means what is to follow is not desirable.

      to be: Prepositional phrase. Be meaning current state of being.

      in a: Prepositional phrase, meaning inclusion, or to be in something.

      relationship: Presumed to be dating at the exclusion of emotional and sexual involvement of others.

      So which of the words here is causing all this confusion? How much more clear could he have been?

      • LOL @ breaking down the grammar. hilarious.

      • cynicaloptimist81

        LOL…ok, Prof. Hugh Jazz.

        If we wanna get technical, neither your relationship statement or my "right now" phrase appear in Slim's post. So, if you wanna break something down, break down "I wasn’t looking for a girl and that I was focused on myself and ensuring that I didn’t commit to something I wasn’t ready for". When I started chilling with my current bf, we had NO IDEA we'd end up being a couple. Neither of us were looking for anything serious, but the more we hung out, our interest in each other grew. So, "not looking" became irrelevant and our focus shifted to each other. Point, the circumstances changed and now, we're a couple.

        When Slim gave Jenn his disclaimer, she heard, "He's interested but the circumstances aren't ideal right now". Then she decided, "I'll wait this out a bit to see if the circumstances change" (yes, a risk she obviously wasn't emotionally prepared to take…her fault). And while they're QTing it up 2 mos, 3 mos, 4 mos, 5 mos, her hope is being fueled. What he said and what she heard was initially true until he determined that she was judgmental. At that point, she'd never be considered for the gf position if the circumstances did change (nothing wrong with that, his preference)…but he should have told her that when she started showing signs of wanting more (I'm willing to bet she did) which let him know through her actions that she was indeed waiting for the circumstances to change (he knew they wouldn't) and, yes, she should have been honest with him once she knew she wanted more which may have prompted him to be brutally honest with her as well (we'll never know).

        Again, both at fault.

        We can agree to disagree on this. πŸ˜‰

      • Late to see this grammatical breakdown, but I am dying right now.

  • <blockquote cite="comment-311551">

    MeteorMan:

    I can stand as a witness to say that I’ve said ““I don’t want a relationship right now” once and it didn’t mean HER specifically. It was general. Though when I wanted a relationship, she ended up as my GF.

    Awwww. Meteor man! *swoons and sways*

  • Rox

    doesn't the nature of this cyclical conversation provide enough evidence that YES chick is lying??? I know dudes aren't that dense, especially in the age of blogging where we have these convos over & over & over again.

    just sayin

    it's not rocket science

    let's just go back to the days of acotin' (southern accent).

  • Melody

    If you are going to have a "friends with benefits" type relationship SAY IT. Men are not mind readers and want woman to say what they want minus having to guess, woman are no different, THIS GOES BOTH WAYS. Also why take the time to have ''potential relationship'' conversations if you're in it for the kitty? I personally have issues finding a friend with benefits since the men I find always want more but I never think I am invincible to this same thing one day!

  • KAPSpecial

    So I've been reading these comments periodically and have given this issue some more thought while of course doing my employer's work. I'm nervous about sharing, but this is the conclusion I've come to after reading the post and comments and thinking of my friends who've played the Jen role:

    The female* sexual freedom movement will be the downfall of the entire human race (a little dramatic, but I'll stand by this statement). This is why I wish friends with benefits or cut buddies or jump-off etc. were still highly stigmatized among women folk. I wish you still had to go to whore houses or hire a prostitute to conduct whore activity. But no, folks want sexual freedom. You know what you get with sexual freedom?!?!? Lots of damaged men and women. You can't add rules to whoring. If you're having no strings attached sex which is sex with anyone you can't put a title on then you can't have any expectations. And why share your body, your time, your emotions with someone you can't have expectations of? (Cause it feels good? So does a crack high, I'm told.)

    The next layer of demise is that folks are putting titles on folks that shouldn't have titles – putting titles on folks you're whoring with. Cause whoring just sounds bad/judgemental/negative i guess. So now you got a cut buddy, a friend with benefits, a jump off (now these sound like choices and freedom right? WRONG!) and then trying to universally apply a set of rules and expectations. Failure is inevitable. Sigh.

    *I refer to female sexual freedom, because women actually run sex. I know it doesn't look like it since large numbers of women have let the power go, but it's true. We shall overcome some day.

    • Ariana

      KAPSpecial, you are 1000% correct!

    • Chrissy

      I actually agree with this 100%

    • KAPS makes some excellent points. Good stuff.

      • It has taken me so… long to read all these comments, but THIS.RIGHT.HERE. was well worth it ! Collectively women have just failed ourselves trying to "outdo" the next chick & behave in ways that obviously go AGAINST our nature & all these comments by the women just prove that.

        KAP Special broke it down to the bottom…for real.

    • Falling in love with KAPS

  • Rox

    This is why chicks shouldn't give up the goodies!!!!!! Let a dude acote (southern accent) you, get married, make babies, all while getting ur education & starting your million dollar hustle. Basically, work hard to make you the best you that you can be (in mind, spirit, body, family & work), & he'll appear, treating you like the prize you are. …wasting your time QT'n with a dude who doesn't want a relationship when you know you want one… Girl go do something productive! You should be confident & intuitive enough to know that you are the bomb and that there is always more to learn about yourself through your interactions & relationship with others. A dude not being into you says absolutely NOTHING about you unless quality x is just that repulsive – in that case you need to know & make adjustments. Otherwise, as somebody mentioned in a previous comment, somebody might like it! If dude was "the one" you'd have him. Have the wherewithal to realize that, because now you're available for the "the right one" when he does come along.

    I'm a firm believer that a woman who takes care of home, knows her worth, & has faith that "the right one" will be along one day won't be questioning ninjas – she won't need to. She knows what she wants & she'll get it. This may not be the only way, but literally ALL the women I know who've made it fit this mold right here. Just think about it.

  • Larry

    I believe the biggest disconnect between what the fellas are saying and women are commenting on is what perspective each party is looking through. It almost seems as if that most of the women here are basing their opinion (and tell me if I'm off base, b/c I very well might be) on a fact that Slim met Jenn and was "dealing" with her for 7 months and was talking to NO one else but her and her alone. I'll submit to you that would be a false assumption. For all we know he could have also been hanging out with Veronika and Nicki too every now and again…and nothing is wrong with that. He's single and dating, meeting new people and having fun. As long as he is upfront on each person's situation then there shouldn't be a real issue.

    To me this sounds like nothing more then a woman that was in his rotation that he liked and was real cool, but maybe…just maybe…there was another woman or two who he may have liked more at the time on top of the fact he didn't see long-term potential, but short-term he enjoyed the companionship and is under the assumption she knows what the situation is. He's just telling this story because it's relevant to the blog topic. It's almost comical reading some of these comments with the women implying because he liked her then he was obligated to make her his girlfriend. I mean come on…give me a break. If he followed that logic to a tee, then he may have had 3 girlfriends at one time and that's a big no no.

    Always remember that your perception isn't everyone else's reality necessarily. Slim communicated upfront. He did his part. If she felt a certain way she needs to communicate that, too. Very simple. (maybe not easy, but necessary).

  • PrettyPisces

    damn. Ouch

  • Life Is Simple Everybody that you date/mess around with/ is not meant to be wife or a longterm girlfriend. I think that's why they call it dating or gaining experince. Trial and Error so to speak.

  • OFF Topic

    – I was thinking today… One of the most hurtful things in my life, is cherishing a woman that doesn't want me, while going with the guy that thinks of her as a h*e…

    I'll leave it at that…

    – Also, I was in Manhattan today admiring women's im- perfect bodies… Had a real appreciation for a woman's body…

    END OFF Topic

    Okay… Let's do this

    Good Evening,

    Hmmmm…. Hmmm…

    If Slim would have dogged the poor woman out, I would have had no issue…

    If Slim would have been a total class act, I would have had no issue…

    Just in this comment section alone PROVES that their is no right answer in how to handle Jenn…

    I still stand by doing whatever it takes to get inside a woman's mind. heart & body… no right or wrong way to do that… I am willing to handle the consequences of all possibilities…

    As for me, I believe that if I sleep with a woman, I am responsible for her…

    don't get me f*cked up, I am not obligated to do anything to/for/with her…

    But I do feel like I am responsible for her… No matter where we stand in the relationship…

    I do that because

    1. Self-Preservation

    2. I like to be able to keep bridges intact, in the event I want to cross her bridge again (Lifetime p*ssy privleges)

    3. I want women to have a lasting good image of me leaving… means alot to me…

    4. Women are women… It is a gift & a curse… I am learning to embrace women & their behaviors everyday…

    Now the key to this message is that mating & relating is a flawed fantastic process…

    So, even though I might be classy in this game, I will not think less of a guy who decides, not to take the high road…

    I am also glad that a few commenters pointed out how women do their dirt when they don't to be with a dude, but want to benefit off of him…

    I wish I could have been more eloquent…

    Slim again, THERE IS NO RIGHT WAY TO HANDLE THIS… Just make sure that you still have your n*ts at the end of the day…

    Good Post…

  • KAPSpecial

    I agree that Slim didn't owe Jen anything. I'll also say that Jen and others similarly situated are masochists. Like there aren't too many self-esteem buliding responses to explain why someone doesn't make you a girlfriend. I think Slim was nice not to hang up or say something that was crazy blunt, but true (e.g., cause you're only good for hitting, or some other mean thing). I'm not advocating for folks to be mean, but it wasn't a good look to call him.

  • I find it absolutely hilarious that someone dropped at least one dislike on every one of Slims Post.

    Jenn is that you? Delurk and speak your mind girl!!

  • Ariana

    Last comment and I'm done. I'd say maybe people could look at it through the lens of common courtesy and respect. Courtesy means that you take the initiative within yourself to accomodate someone else. Usually it's related to small things like letting someone know you're running late, men holding the door open for women, helping someone lift a heavy load. But courtesy also applies to relationships. A courteous person in relationships will be willing to invest at least a modicum of effort to ensure that the other person's feelings are honored and respected. This isn't just about the situation b/w Slim and Jenn, just generally. People should be a little more softhearted. Everyone would be better off if people thought more about what the other person is feeling and not just about themselves.

    • I agree… But again… Women need to chill with the equality push…

  • EmeraldStarr78

    This post is so real…I'll just say this. I have learned to really listen to what a man says and does (not what I wish he would say or do), check my actions and emotions so I can make a smart decision and Never worry about why I wasn't picked if it didn't work out. Learn and move on!

    And personal responsibility is key, whether your feelings are involved or not, deep down you know whether or not things are going anywhere. Many men and women just choose to deny what they already know. As for closure…it's for people who are still holding on to something they know they should let go of….

  • KAPSpecial

    Didn't see my shout out until I had posted yet again, now I seem needy for Slim's stamp of approval too. πŸ˜‰ This commenting mess is fun, but I gots to keep my day job. I'm back to lurking…it's been real. Only really good posts like this one will draw me out again, that's a challenge SBM team.

  • NaijaSweetz

    250+ Comments, though? Hot diggity. Just had to get that out of the way before getting into comment mode. Shoot, I'll probably have nothing to say by the time I get through the previous ones.

    As I suspected, most of anything I could say has already been covered. As far as my own experience is concerned, I've only ever had one such situation. I had moments when my heart was wrenched and I wondered why I wasn't "good enough" for him. I personally was not accustomed to this kind of drama, and I certainly didn't sign up for a FWB situation. It just so happened that we both felt a strong undeniable chemistry and would just keep ending back up "together". Sex wasn't even an issue, because that wasn't in the picture for awhile, and it has since occupied a negligible portion of our overall relationship. I was young and rather naive, and he was truly relationship-averse at the time, due to some previous experience(s). I actually recall once writing him in one of my many notes that it seemed things had less to do with his readiness and more so with his not seeing that potential in me. As I matured emotionally and developed the ability to look at it more rationally, I realized that he was not good for me, nor I for him as far as an actual relationship is concerned. We presently have a good thing going as friends and actually often speak of the past even though he's currently boo'd up. I feel for Jenn. I know what it's like to have something like that eat away at you. Sometimes you just have to know…or at least try to get some kind of answer. Women in general like closure & to know the "whys"..it just can't be helped.

    Now, I'd like to point out even further that not every man is consistent (dude above did his fair share of yo-yo-ing). When I said the aforementioned was the only situation of its kind, I was referring to the feelings I had. I met Guy B through a mutual friend, and he told me during our first conversation that he wasn't looking for a relationship. Now, he's a great looking guy & I'd told our friend who snitched on my ass as much, but I was turned off by the assumption that I was trying to get with him…particularly since he was the one who'd asked for my coordinates. Again, sex was generally a non-issue, but other things did take place in its absence. The main thing was that he liked being with me. Whenever I found that lines were getting too blurred without a change in status on the horizon, I would verbally, emotionally (not that I was heavily invested to begin with) & physically pull back. Oh, sure, he would agree with me that it was for the best to quit cold turkey, but it wouldn't be too many hours after that he'd want to come pick me up so we could hang out, etc, etc. I think I'm the closest thing he's had to a gf in awhile, and he didn't quite want to let go. It was exhausting saying no all the time, so I would eventually cave in and set parameters, but he would do his darndest to get us back to a state of quasi-relationshipdom. 2007-2011, not much has changed. Left to him, I'd still be spending every other day giving him an opportunity to raise my blood pressure with the madness. He still texted me today, although not much was said. Just a note to show that not all guys are willing to let go when you decide to be wise & leave them alone.

    Finally, people's responses tend to be coloured by their vantage point. As I said, I can easily recall a time when I was a variant of Jenn. I could make a case as to why it would only be humane to give her a less generic response, but then I have to remember that I'm currently expecting my phone to ring and having to explain why things can't work between me & X. I've been in this situation more times than in the former, and even though they're usually not at that level of seriousness before I drop the axe, it's not any easier to formulate the right words. In fact, there are no right words sometimes. How do you tell someone that their habits annoy you? Their grammar turns you off? They're not someone you could bring home to your parents? They're just plain wack? (Note, this isn't all related to X, before someone who knows me IRL stumbles on this comment & tries to get my behind in trouble). There are many different little things it could be from person to person; sometimes it's them, sometimes it's you, and sometimes it's simply a lack of relationship compatibility. To be honest, I've taken the easiest cop-out most of the time. Thus far, I've only matured to the point of being able to let someone know straight up that it's not going to work, instead of slowly withdrawing and hoping that they eventually get the picture.. They "Why"s will always be difficult, and I can't really fault someone for faltering when the matter comes up, even though I'd really like to know, were I the one on the other line.

    So much for having nothing to say. Literally.

  • The One

    Ladies anytime a guy uses those words "I am not looking or ready for a relationship right now" it simply he does not want a relationship with YOU. He might meet somebody the next day and get into a relationship but not with you. So if you like this person & wanna have a relationship I suggest you RUN the other way 'cos you'll only get your heart broken so many times.
    I'm in this kind of dilemma right now, he said those words and I never paid attention to it. I love him & I will always love despite the fact that I know he thinks I'm not good enough for him.
    But I can't begin to talk about how tumultuous
    and emotionally draining such a relationship is.

  • Too weird…I think I just got out of a "relationship" like this 2 weeks ago minus the oral agreement from the beginning. He and I were definitely dating for 8 months (like gf/bf without the title). He said he wasn't "ready" to be exclusive about 6 months in because of the responsibility (having to do things when he didn't really feel like doing them) involved with having a girlfriend. I decided to hang around a little longer to see if maybe we could get to that point since things were going so well, but then I noticed he started to pull away. Shortly after I "sensed" him pulling away, I broke it off. I know that typically if I'm not occupying his thoughts, some other chick is (as was the case). Jen more than likely felt the same disconnect, but chose to ignore it, or attempted to rationalize her thoughts to allow herself to stick around longer than she should have. I tried rationalizing too, but I'm far too pratical to come to any other conclusion than he just wasn't that into me or wasn't ready for a "serious" relationship.

    We (women) know when a guy is just not that into us, so while I feel for and sympathize with Jen, she is partially at fault for sticking around AND not making her feelings known. HOWEVER, I also blame Slim because he also chose not to be completely honest about how he was feeling about her. I'm not sure how old Slim is, but most men of drinking age know that most women DO NOT want to be FwB. Stop leading women on to get some!!

    I've given guys the same excuse, "I'm not looking for a relationship right now" to avoid hurting their feelings and months later they'd come around trying to date me again. Guys, it's best to just be honest, even if it means you get no loving or you hurt someone's feelings a little. You are hurting her feelings too by sexing her without any intentions of being with her. You'll feel better about yourself and its also a sign of maturity. Man up!

    I think it was ballsy of Jen to ask, Why not her? I would never do it though because I KNOW it's nothing I did wrong πŸ™‚ and I firmly believe it's HIS loss, not mine.

    • "I also blame Slim because he also chose not to be completely honest about how he was feeling about her. "

      Slim posted "I told her upfront that I wasn’t looking for a girl and that I was focused on myself and ensuring that I didn’t commit to something I wasn’t ready for. She accepted it then…or so I thought." Isn't that being completely honest about his intentions?

      I don't agree with friends with benefits on an ethical level, but I don't think Slim was being dishonest.

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  • KAP#2

    I co-sign with all that KAPSpecial has said. I agree. thatisall! Thanks gurl!

  • <blockquote cite="comment-311832">

    Shareef: “I also blame Slim because he also chose not to be completely honest about how he was feeling about her. ”Slim posted “I told her upfront that I wasn’t looking for a girl and that I was focused on myself and ensuring that I didn’t commit to something I wasn’t ready for. She accepted it then…or so I thought.” Isn’t that being completely honest about his intentions?I don’t agree with friends with benefits on an ethical level, but I don’t think Slim was being dishonest.

    "How he was "feeling" (actively) about her" means as their "relationship" progressed. Apparently, they were both cool with the agreement at first, but it's obvious her feelings changed (she fell for him), as did Slim's feelings (he decided she was not the one for him). When their feelings changed, each should have communicated that to the other.

    Btw – Jen was simply asking why she was not the one for him. She didn't appear to be upset about how things ended nor did she seem like she felt deceived. So, I am not saying that Slim wasn't honest with her in the beginning, but he should have continued to be honest with her as time went on.

    I simply feel that men MUST understand that MOST women will not be cool with a FwB situation, even if they say they are. Just understand that, and you won't get calls from girls like Jen wondering what happened. You can't spend quality time with someone, enjoy their company AND have sex with them and not, at some point, become emotionally attached. It's very difficult for women to do this, especially since most people believe actions speak louder than words.

  • Katja

    <blockquote cite="comment-311370">

    cynicaloptimist81:

    Fair enough.

    But, when this cycle continues to happen, at least men know that their refusal to read beyond the surface is part of the reason for the repeated drama.

    Real talk, if a woman is willing to lie to herself to deal with you (and face it, fellas, y’all know these chics would commit to you at the drop of a dime if you wanted them to…meaning you know she’s lying), you’re willing to accept her lie for the sake of what you get out of it (s.ex & a chill buddy). If you can’t see how Jesus would not approve of that move (in addition to not approving of her lying to herself), lol, then you are now lying to yourself. That mindset is not cool.

    Since you brought up Jesus, I just thought I'd add that Jesus wouldn't approve of any sex outside of marriage – because that's about as clear as it gets. Going back to that wouldn't be such a bad thing.

    • cynicaloptimist81

      So true. Glad you've got the V.I.C.T.O.R.Y in that area! And thank God for grace and mercy in the areas of our lives that we don't. πŸ˜‰

  • This post was ill. I've been on both sides, the heartbreaker and the one to get their heart broken. Both sides are whack in their own way. Either way, I love this site but reading about relationships makes me even more paranoid and with my over analytical Virgo self…that's never good. Awesome writing though.

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  • thosewintersundays

    Great post Slim!

  • <blockquote cite="comment-311855">I simply feel that men MUST understand that MOST women will not be cool with a FwB situation, even if they say they are.

    I can't process this logic. I tend to believe what people say. If I go around assuming that people are not being honest to direct questions or statements, I'll be paranoid.

    By the way, I agree with you on FWB, I don't like them one bit and think they always lead to trouble. But people are adults and make their own decisions / commitments and need to live with the consequences.

  • <blockquote cite="comment-312193">

    Shareef: I can’t process this logic. I tend to believe what people say. If I go around assuming that people are not being honest to direct questions or statements, I’ll be paranoid.By the way, I agree with you on FWB, I don’t like them one bit and think they always lead to trouble. But people are adults and make their own decisions / commitments and need to live with the consequences.

    You do know the saying "Actions speak louder than words is an age old adage?" I didn't just make this up. So, in our society, people have generally accepted that this holds true. But to help you better understand…The problem with going by what people say is that people often LIE to get what they want. Men don't typically state their intentions upon meeting a woman of interest to them. That's why the general rule is to allow their actions to speak for them. If he says you're his girl, but he only calls you after 10p and never takes you out, you're probably a booty call…and so on. Sometimes, there are exceptions to the general rule, caused by all of theses sub-categories of relationships we've come up with. Jump-off, side chick, wifey, FwB, booty call, homey-lover-friend, it's getting ridiculous!

    So, the saying goes "Actions speak LOUDER than words," which means Words still matter in the grand scheme of things, but what someone says is less indicative of how they actually feel than what they do. It's easier to lie verbally than to deceive someone with your actions. If a man says he loves you, but he beats you…well or if a woman tells you you're the "best" she's ever had, but cheats on you with a thug nicknamed "Horse"… well. Do you see the logic now?

    • <blockquote cite="comment-312225">

      thirtythoughts: You do know the saying “Actions speak louder than words is an age old adage?”I didn’t just make this up. So, in our society, people have generally accepted that this holds true.But to help you better…The problem with going by what people say is that people often LIE to get what they want.Men don’t typically state their intentions upon meeting a woman of interest to them.That’s why the general rule is to allow their actions to speak for them.If he says you’re his girl, but he only calls you after 10p and never takes you out, you’re probably a booty call…and so on.Sometimes, there are exceptions to the general rule, caused by all of theses sub-categories of relationships we’ve come up with.Jump-off, side chick, wifey, FwB, booty call, homey-lover-friend, it’s getting ridiculous!

      I definitely feel you on that, but I thought Slim's point was that Jenn didn't show any action indicative of wanting a relationship until the phone call. It seems like they both had this FWB agreement, acted appropriately, it ended, and then Slim got a call which was surprising based on how the "relationship" started and ended.

      your points are very valid – there are too many people that stay in crappy relationships (or worse, violent ones) because they pay more attention to words than actions.

  • <blockquote cite="comment-312228">

    Shareef: I definitely feel you on that, but I thought Slim’s point was that Jenn didn’t show any action indicative of wanting a relationship until the phone call. It seems like they both had this FWB agreement, acted appropriately, it ended, and then Slim got a call which was surprising based on how the “relationship” started and ended.your points are very valid – there are too many people that stay in crappy relationships (or worse, violent ones) because they pay more attention to words than actions.

    Slim's point was not that she didn't show any signs of wanting a relationship. He didn't even like her like that. I thought the whole point was that he dreaded getting a phone call from a woman he used to date asking why she wasn't good enough to be in a relationship with. I think you, me and all the other folks who responded went off on a tangent…lol

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  • Ciara

    Well, I just got out of a situation like this a couple weeks ago…the difference between Slim and him was that he TREATED me like a girlfriend…we were together a lot, I often slept over his house, we went out. Heres the thing we would SEX with NO CONDOM, yet he wouldn't kiss me…and NO it wasn't my hygeine because this man would share his spoon, cup and blunts with me, LOL but he wouldn't kiss me…I accepted the no kissing and no title thing…and I eventually got fed up and faced reality.

    He told me he didn't want a relationship because he was going through things and couldn't focus on one person but I now realize it was just ME he couldn't focus on. If the right girl came along he would be in a relationship within a heartbeat. He told me this from the very beginning and I stuck around, a little piece of me hoping to change that but I've been through this before. Honestly, most of my relationships with men have been "friends with benefits" because I took whatever guy I could find and accepted half of a relationship instead of a full relationship because I felt like any time of a man's was good enough for me.

    I am YOUNG, I do have daddy issues and I do jump in the sack easy BUT I am finally realizing that I've been selling myself short. I deserve better. I know I do. I'm a good chick, with a good heart and I'm not bad looking either…plus I'm going places. So I'm done with being his "friend with benefits" I want to be his girlfriend and nothing less than that.

    A lot of times women lose their selves in these type of relationships and don't look at reality…there is no "could be" or "would be" in these situations. Its what "it is". So listen to these men UPFRONT. They always tell you what you need to hear even if its bullshit. Straight up.

  • Fussy Funny

    This is a very good post. I wonder if the woman wanted the feedback for the sake of personal growth, or resentment. While I appreciate the fact that Slim was honest about wanting to just kick it and have fun, I think she would have really gotten the picture if you told her the real reason why it wasn't more – which is the fact that she wasn't girlfriend material…not that you just wanted to kick it. Her personality traits (and maybe character) lead to you deciding you didn't want more…not because you just weren't ready for a relationship.

    I see the quagmire in this situation though. Had you been brutally honest, you wouldn't have been able to indulge in the Fw/B pleasantries. oh well…

  • Adrienne

    <blockquote cite="comment-311187">

    Slim Jackson:

    Nah, no egg shells needed. For me, the fact that she said some really judgmental things made me feel like I couldn’t be completely honest with her about what was going on in my life. And once I felt like i couldn’t be honest, that kinda sealed the deal for me in my head. I’m sure there are guys that would have been fine with some of the things she said, but it didn’t work for me. She was still cool and she made it sound like she understood what the situation was, so I just let things keep going as they were.

    Yes, it is true, that women need to be women, and take responsibility for their hearts, and not put themselves in situations that could potentially hurt them down the road…by having sex with men who have made it quite plain that they are not interested in a relationship, if a relationship is what they want down the road. Women must stop deluding themselve into believing that they could change a mans' mind. Once a woman becomes aware that "she is catching feelings", then it is up to her to walk away from the man.

    However, whatever happened to men being gentlemen? Men are not that dense, or clueless, neither are they required to be mind readers. But a man knows when a woman is "catching feelings". I believe that once it become apparent that a woman is catching feelings, then the man should also walk away, or at least reiterate his position that "I don't want a relationships with you", and allow the women to decide if she wants to continue dealing with them on her terms. Contrary to what she originally stated, you knew that she was "catching feelings". You believed that you were being honest, but you were not, but was looking out for your own interest. You mentioned that you were not looking for a relationship, that you had some things to work out, yet your actions implied to the woman that "we are in some type of relationship", because you continued seeing her, even as you inwardly knew that she didn't have a chance.

    You were using her, or playing her, delegating her to a role that you wanted her to play in your life until you tired of her, and something better came along. Whatever happened to a sense of decency and having a good conscious?. Can't you put yourselves in her place, and comprehend what it must have felt like to her, being used? No offense to you, but to me, your actions and behavior is what I call living according to the "laws of the jungle", and operating out of a predatory mindset. There is karma in this, and there is no happiness to be gained by someone else's pain.

    You stated that she said some judgmental things to you, and this became the barimeter by which you determined in your mind that a relationship was out of the question, and this sealed the deal for you. Without asking her, you mentioned that you thought she was okay with this arrangement. Looking back on this, do you honestly believe that if she knew that you were stringing her along, that she would be okay with this? You had to know by her behavior that she wanted more from you. Yet you mentioned that she had some of the qualities that you were looking for. You have contradicted yourself in a number of ways here. Based on what you wrote, it appears that you had no feelings for her at all, not even as friends, since you did not see the need to redefine the terms of this arrangement, and that you alone had the upper hand.

    You alone make the decision to relegate her in the category of "friends with benefits", or some other derogaory term, based on your actions. She at least deserved some type of closure or answer for you behavior, because it seems like you were sending mixed signals to her all along.

  • Maybe I should but I have no sympathy for this woman. She wasn't good enough because she didn't go about things the right way. If a woman wants commitment from a man at some point she needs to do two things. (1) Say so (2) Keep her legs closed until she gets said commitment. If you aren't doing those two things, then I don't think you really deserve to get the man of your dreams. Getting the man of your dreams takes work, dedication, honesty, patience, and shit loads of communication. And if a woman can do the above two things then she's already demonstrated she has some of the necessary qualities to make a relationship work. If she communicates her want effectively, he can do the same. And a woman can find out immediately if he's on the same page. If he's not, oh well, good riddance. Also, delaying the physical helps a woman keep her wits about her and get a better sense of a man and how much she enjoys his company without the physical aspects.

  • MidTwentiesTeeterer

    New to the site and a lot late on this one, but was Slim really being clear about his intentions? Was stating that he wasn't ready for a relationship really the same as stating that he wasn't interested in a relationship with this particular female? While I agree that Jenn shouldn’t have said that she was okay with a situation (FwB) if she wasn’t, or should have voiced when her feelings began to change, Slim should’ve also let her know when he decided that she wasn’t relationship material. And, I definitely can't agree that Slim was completely honest about his feelings. Stating that you're focused on yourself at a point in time leaves room for you to grow and change and I think, in Slim’s case, it left room for Jenn to feel like after Slim got his personal situation figured out, she could still have a shot.

    Perhaps I'm over empathizing with Jenn, but I think Slim is being a little disingenuous by accepting no culpability.

    <blockquote cite="comment-311832">

    Shareef: “I also blame Slim because he also chose not to be completely honest about how he was feeling about her. ”Slim posted “I told her upfront that I wasn’t looking for a girl and that I was focused on myself and ensuring that I didn’t commit to something I wasn’t ready for. She accepted it then…or so I thought.” Isn’t that being completely honest about his intentions?

    • Jay

      Hello. First timer and a lil late to the party on this one.

      I'll start with this: The only people that FWB's, Cutty Buddies, NSA's, and "On the side" situations work for is people that have no problem continuing to take advantage of other people's vulnerability.

      Why is it such a big deal about who shows their "interested" hand first when meeting a new "potential"? Prolly because you don't want to be the one looking thirsty while the other person hasn't even shown any interest at all. I think more women try to avoid this than we (men) do because it can lead to…………"Well, I'm not really looking for anything serious right now….., but….uhhh….how bout some NSA TNA?"

      In all seriousness, there is a reason it comes out as "not right now". Quite simply, you prolly won't get anything more from that woman if you say otherwise. I had this debate with my roommate, who is always complaining about women and how they catch feelings, and when I ask him "Well, WTF were you doing with this woman that she feels so connected to you, or that you owe her anything?" If he were to say, "Nothing. I nailed her to the wall and left her there" I say, "Well then tell that chick if she calls you again you'll pursue a restraining order against her or something". Tell her you have a 6 foot 5 female cousin that just got out of jail, I don't know.

      But then I have to stop myself. I then ask, "Did you tell her you wanted to eff and NOTHING more"? Did you nip it in the bud the FIRST time she asked you more than "what time will you be here" or "why are YOU still here"? Did you disguise your true intentions as, "Hey, I like you and want to DATE you" and not "Hey, let's have some fun tonite……only"?

      Of course he didn't. He wouldn't have gotten far enough to be frustrated if he had. Some of us like to believe we're G enough to just walk up to women like Chris Rock did in "I Think I Love my Wife". We'd like to believe women want us that bad (or at least that they are open enough to let us know without a bunch of B.S.). But we know that 9 times out of ten, if you go straight up like that in a sober, met you at the grocery store-type scenario, it's not going on. Hence the "other" crap you hear when all we want is a quick stab. This will never stop happening, either.

      7 months? 7 days is going on too long for me in a FWB situation. Why? What's there to even discuss? Unless, *gasp*, it's not a real FWB. And, this might make people question everything I said (which I could really give a F), but, I've never had a FWB. I can't be running the risk of that chick catching feelings or getting jealous of my relationship (I'll soon be engaged), and I ain't G enough to run up to a chick and say "Hey, how ya doin? Let's have sex, and ONLY sex"! Therefore, I'll just take my sorry-behind home and have a real relationship with my girl instead of pretending with someone else. Because that's all I think FWB's are and like some others have said, they're prolly myths anyways.

      So pretty much that and everything Dr. J said is where I stand on this. Dudes gotta keep it just as real as females do in that situation and they have to do it from the START. If you don't, it doesn't mean you wrong for not wanting to go any further with her. Just means you'll have to look forward to having all the "why" ish goin on. Personally I think some use it as an ego trip, JMO. Some brovas got enough to deal with.

      • cynicaloptimist81

        Late, shmate, lol. I agree with all of this…ALL OF THIS!

  • Slim… I agree with it all. This is a good post. Hard to read, to accept But a very good post.

    I have to respond to what @WisdomIsMisery's commented:

    "I’ve said it a 1000 times and it hasn’t made me popular amongst the ladies, but I truly believe as far as men are concerned, they only have two type of women in their life:

    1) The woman (as in one) they’d be willing to seriously commit to/marry.

    2) All other women."

    I think the problem for women and the need for closure is not that you fall into the second category, but why is it yet again that you don't fall into the first.

    It really hits on a deep-seated insecurity of being inadequate and when you're faced with that reflection in the mirror, sometimes it's hard to face yourself. Especially when things are good between the two of you. Especially when he's with you all the time, inhabits your space, asks for the musings of your mind, holds you when you sleep, grabs you when you walk through the door… It's hard to think of yourself as a FWB if he treats you with deference. Especially when he does things like meets your family, or introduces his family to you, or if all his coworkers either know you or know about you… those things make it hard to distinguish the lines between FWB and actual commitment. And you push back. You push, you push, you push. And he still stays around, so you cave.

    And when you, as a woman, fall into the carefully laid trap; give pass to your guards; leave the fortress unattended… well don't be surprised when scoundrels pillage.

    And though you are left with bruised emotions, your pride is distinctly damaged. Your led on a merry chase searching for Robin Hood's barn. During the hunt, while knee-deep in the muck of a dark forest, you wake up. You stop wanting to accep the scraps while the invitation to the feast is denied. And you have to move on. But you want to know: Why me? Why did you choose me? What makes me an easy target? And once you know, you just move the heck on.

  • REALeyes

    SLIM,
    I partially hate you on behalf of Jen!! Its men like you who take advantage of a woman's kindness and love. KARMA is a mother! True, she could have been a little more aggressive in finding out if you are really into her, but at the same time, you should of had enough respect for your pseudo relationship and reminded here of how nothing had not changed with you. It is such a shame that men will sex a woman, even do relationship-type things with no real intention to even take the "hanging out" to the next level. This is a typical thing that men do. Hence: why buy the cow, when you can get the milk for free?

    Unfortunately, too many women are uneducated a out how men think and we wind up in situations leaving us wondering if we are doing everything right. Screw that! Take me as I am or take the next bus out of town, cause I don't have time for it.
    The funny thing is men don't want anyone doing this to their daughters, sisters and certainly not their mothers.
    Yes, I talk from experience, but I've learned enough about men that I will not go into a relationship not knowing what I'm getting into. Who, in their right mind would knowingly settle for less?!

    LADIES,GET EDUCATED ON HOW MEN THINK ACT AND BEHAVE!!!!!

    Life should be enjoyed.

    And didn't you realize that you hurt her even further by not being open and honest with her? Passive or not ,she came to you, ready to face the truth. She just needed you to confirm her thoughts. I thought a mature man would come clean because he recognizes this woman needs closure.

    Oh and to men who don't "kiss" their women, what is all that about? I have heard black men don't like to kiss or that men only kiss women they are truly in love with.

    Men…y'all are a piece of work and yes, I learn everyday.

    Thanks for the platform, Slim! I still hate you, even after I expressed myself!!

    Vindication for Jen!!!!!

    Seriously, Slim…Are you prepared for karma?

  • REALeyes

    I make no apologies for how I came off or what I said. However, everyone is truly responsible for their own actions and should take control of their lives. I honestly don't hate you, but I hate what you did.

  • Blessings…..

    I will try to avoid the generalizations and stick to the issue at hand. Yes you declared yourself I give you props for that, I respect a man who puts it on the table however it’s a topic that needs to be revisited if the “relationship” as it were is to continue past 3 months. "Just around for the fun" needs to be broken down to the raw facts and no delicate words would do. There comes a time when one has call a spade a spade not a folk or a spoon, “fun” in short is a simply sexual partnering, a periodic releasing of the carnal urges i.e. she was a fuck friend.

    Is she exempt from responsibility here, absolutely not, she suffered from the real human piece we all suffer from, from time to time called self-delusion. Where I jump off the ride with you Slim is when you chose to ignore your red flags (we all have them) that solidified for you that she was definitely not going to be the one because as you said was "judgmental" in preference satisfying your carnal needs. Your justification – "I thought she was cool," and maybe she was, in the beginning but after 7 months one opt to think that things has changed. Did you check in again with her, did you revisit the term of the relationship; did you break it down to the real nitty gritty? Maybe its me but I like things raw, no bullshit, frills and all that crap, just say like it is, don’t dress it up.

    The mistake she made is not owning up when she realized things were changing for her. She had a responsibility to herself, her heart and her spirit to declare herself and find out if things were changing for you, to know if you were on the same page or not. Had she done that she would have saved herself the blow to her self-esteem, her spirit and her pride, there is nothing fun about being used even if it started out as a mutually agreeable situation. It just leaves you feeling like a toilet.

    People say things all the time, judgmental shit, ignorant shit it doesn't mean there is no room to relax a particular position or outlook. Though you didn't go into detail as to specificity of the judgmental attitude or if you addressed the issues (I would hope that you would) its unfair to hold what someone says against them without addressing it directly. We all have our non-negotiables, things we simply cannot tolerate and we have to have the courage to communicate them without apology and walk away before things get messy if there is no room for growth and transformation.

    The minute you felt like, “I couldn’t be honest, that kinda sealed the deal for me in my head.” You should have ended and told her exactly why, instead you hid and hope you would hear/see her again.

    • Correction – End of last paragraph:

      meant to say "instead you hid and hope you would not hear/see her again."

  • Dub. Breezy

    What i took from this piece was no the fact that she couldnt handle the friends with benefit. I think she handled it well. She asked one question and you couldnt keep it real and tell her that her super judgmental attitude was the reason she didnt get the girlfriend title…yea u didnt want to hurt her feelings but u already did that so why not just finish her off and kept it 100%…my fwb told me about myself and honestly that shyt made me a better person.

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  • Looking back on this post… I have some revelations…

    When your man chasing dimes or a woman chasing alphas, you deserve everything that comes with that…

    There are going to be some losers in the se,xual marketplace & chances are you'll be one of them

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  • I was in a similar situation. I met this guy who was in one of my classes who told me that he wasn't looking for a girlfriend that semester, he was just focused on school. I can honestly say that I felt the same way at first, I didn't want a boyfriend. The thing is we spent so much time together and he was really nice to me, a gentleman, would stay on campus until my next class when he was finished, walk me to class, so all that attention caused me to be attracted to him. I just broke up with somebody over the summer, so it was nice having a new friend. All the attention caused me to like him. For a long time I wondered why he never asked me to be his girlfriend because we were cool and I know he was attracted to me. He stole my old I.D cards and some of my pictures and kept them for a few months until I told him to get them back, which was around the time we stopped talking. This has helped me to realize that for whatever reason, something about me put him off. Now I can just it accept it as it is. Thanks for sharing.

  • Clint B

    I beg to differ here since my ex made me feel like I wasn't good enough… she has trust issues that she brought into our relationship and it killed us. Every time she was about let me in to love her the way she wanted to be loved she closed the door on me… This shit made me feel like I wasn't good enough for her to take her to the next level… I'm still hurting over our break up. I have removed myself from the relationship game… My focus is now my nine year old daughter and nothing else… I don't even date anymore because of this last relationship…

  • Clint B

    I beg to differ here since my ex made me feel like I wasn't good enough… she had trust issues that she brought into our relationship and it killed us. Every time she was about let me in to love her the way she wanted to be loved she closed the door on me… This shit made me feel like I wasn't good enough for her to take her to the next level… I'm still hurting over our break up. I have removed myself from the relationship game… My focus is now my nine year old daughter and nothing else… I don't even date anymore because of this last relationship…

  • soulflower

    This article hit home for me. Only thing is, I wish I read this a few years ago. Something similar happened to me – except we NEVER had sex (thank God) and he was more like my best friend. I mean I get it now, I get that I'll never be that girl he wants to seriously date. I just wish I didn't waste so much time waiting for nothing. I knew that he cared enough about me to be my friend and for me to not cry over him, heck it hurt him when I told him he's made me cry plenty of times. It's just that he still didn't care enough for him to actually see himself falling in love with me. Thank God it's all over now and I get it and I've moved on but man I wish this could have been avoided because then I wouldn't have had to have gone through all the immense inner pain I went through during those years.

  • Val

    I TRULY believe…the only women who have sex W/O emotional attachment are PROSTITUTES…and some of THEM might catch feelings….

    Women need to STOP lying to themselves….I don't want anybody INSIDE of my body that I don't give a shit about. AGAIN…if you're SHARING MY BODY, OBVIOUSLY I think you're worth something…if I think that about you…why wouldn't I want to be in a relationship with you..

    Men need to STOP this "I told her BS"…cuz u already know she's got feelings for you….you just want what you want so you've rationalized this "easy out" in your head….

    • So if a man tells a chick something and she says ok, the man is supposed to not believe her?

  • Val

    After reading almost all the posts….I see why so many black babies are born into single-parent homes…REALLY does it require that names to say…"I'm just using you for sex"??…Lets face it…we're just using one another up…leaving a trail of hurt feelings, mistrust, and lack of respect behind…

    DEFINITELY not saying other races don't have similar antics, BUT we blacks seem to have cornered the market on "You're good enough to F**K, but not good enough to MARRY"….

    ~ I must laugh to keep from crying…

    • SouthernCityGirl

      WELL SAID VAL!!!

  • Wow, I honestly don't know what I would say in such a situation. I'm stumped.

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  • Interesting post!
    My recent post Making the Video

  • SouthernCityGirl

    I say women start handling men the way men handle women so they'd know how it feels. That's always been my approach…..*shrugs*……saves you from getting hurt and I've never allowed a man to hurt me. I'm too smart for that!

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  • Yves

    I’m sorry … but can I interrupt the said violins for a min and take it from the other perspective ??

    Q: what happens when the dude is on the other end of the phone?

    Last Night I got in to a heated conversations where I as called and asshole by the guy in "seeing" id rather call it kicking it with but thats just semantics. So any who we have been " chilling" for about a month and a half and some change and I knew from the jump WE… well there would never be a we pass the weekends hanging out and going dancing some late nights at starbucks and the occasional dinner or lunch "date". Here is my dilemma he asked me to be in a relationship with him like 2-3 weeks in and I was a smooth as I could be and avoided the answer but justified it by saying let’s wait to get to know each other more ( I usually have a 90 probation when seeing someone new) He didn’t say that he was upset about this until much later (WTF) while we were in front of other ppl at …. (DOUBLE WTF)

    So ONCE again I find myself in a conversation with him and he is saying things that make me continue to write him off as a possible serious relationship and I tell him " this is why "(he is like 5-6 yrs older than me but wants to be a rapper ((wtf) no other goals or ambitions and I’m full of them.. but he makes me laugh and we have a great time socially .. well at least the social engagements I can take him to at least) and he gets defensive and says shit like “well ill never ask you again and if you’re gonna be an asshole I can’t speak to you right now" or something to that effect. Now I know I told this dude that I didn’t want to be in a relationship right now and we could and should and will "kick it” for some time to come as long as things dont be come awkward. Well they are and he is treating me like I’m some kind of a monster for standing up and understanding to the fullest of my ability what and who I desire to be my mate.

    I never find myself in the position of this young lady in the story nor do I find myself with the raw end of the deal in a FWB "relationship. I’m always up front foremost with myself and my expectations for dealing with men it’s the only way not to be in the predicaments most women find themselves in. this women is hurt because despite slim saying I don’t want more she let her desires supersede the agreement (breach of contract is the #1 killer of FWB FYI) we want what we can’t have and thats a flaw that’s usually to our own determent. Ladies & FELLAS when its open and out there on front street and someone has made their agenda clear don’t continue to push your own agenda behind the scenes… truthfully I think its self-ish and you put the other person in a place they shouldn’t have to be because they told ya ass from the jump NO!

    EITHER WAY ! Now I’m an "asshole" because I told someone no. My intentions where clear let’s wait a while to see if we click on other levels besides clubbing eating and facebook… let’s see if your goals priorities and ambitions in life match mines.. let’s see if your morals values and goals are intact and in place. I’m not a child or a teen and dont take relationships casually we can casually date e.i FWB but I wouldn’t get with anyone who doesn’t have potential for a long term stress free drama free interaction with me as a mate. So ladies and fella’s stop the crying you did it to yourself by not respecting the agreement. And then proceeding to engage with the person knowing where it could possibly end up .. Because you thought you would change their mind by being cool agreeable and awesome.. Then they just couldn’t say no then right??? Wrong!

  • YVES

    I’m sorry … but can I interrupt the said violins for a min and take it from the other perspective ??

    Q: what happens when the dude is on the other end of the phone?

    Last Night I got in to a heated conversations where I as called and asshole by the guy in "seeing" id rather call it kicking it with but thats just semantics. So any who we have been " chilling" for about a month and a half and some change and I knew from the jump WE… well there would never be a we pass the weekends hanging out and going dancing some late nights at starbucks and the occasional dinner or lunch "date". Here is my dilemma he asked me to be in a relationship with him like 2-3 weeks in and I was a smooth as I could be and avoided the answer but justified it by saying let’s wait to get to know each other more ( I usually have a 90 probation when seeing someone new) He didn’t say that he was upset about this until much later (WTF) while we were in front of other ppl at …. (DOUBLE WTF)

    So ONCE again I find myself in a conversation with him and he is saying things that make me continue to write him off as a possible serious relationship and I tell him " this is why "(he is like 5-6 yrs older than me but wants to be a rapper ((wtf) no other goals or ambitions and I’m full of them.. but he makes me laugh and we have a great time socially .. well at least the social engagements I can take him to at least) and he gets defensive and says shit like “well ill never ask you again and if you’re gonna be an asshole I can’t speak to you right now" or something to that effect. Now I know I told this dude that I didn’t want to be in a relationship right now and we could and should and will "kick it” for some time to come as long as things dont be come awkward. Well they are and he is treating me like I’m some kind of a monster for standing up and understanding to the fullest of my ability what and who I desire to be my mate.

    I never find myself in the position of this young lady in the story nor do I find myself with the raw end of the deal in a FWB "relationship. I’m always up front foremost with myself and my expectations for dealing with men it’s the only way not to be in the predicaments most women find themselves in. this women is hurt because despite slim saying I don’t want more she let her desires supersede the agreement (breach of contract is the #1 killer of FWB FYI) we want what we can’t have and thats a flaw that’s usually to our own deterrent. Ladies & FELLAS when its open and out there on front street and someone has made their agenda clear don’t continue to push your own agenda behind the scenes… truthfully I think its self-ish and you put the other person in a place they shouldn’t have to be because they told ya ass from the jump NO!

    EITHER WAY ! Now I’m an "asshole" because I told someone no. My intentions where clear let’s wait a while to see if we click on other levels besides clubbing eating and facebook… let’s see if your goals priorities and ambitions in life match mines.. let’s see if your morals values and goals are intact and in place. I’m not a child or a teen and dont take relationships casually we can casually date e.i FWB but I wouldn’t get with anyone who doesn’t have potential for a long term stress free drama free interaction with me as a mate. So ladies and fella’s stop the crying you did it to yourself by not respecting the agreement. And then proceeding to engage with the person knowing where it could possibly end up .. Because you thought you would change their mind by being cool agreeable and awesome.. Then they just couldn’t say no then right??? Wrong!

  • Shan

    Wow. Just discovered this blog and happened to find this post that fits (unfortunately) a little too well with my own life. Simply put she got caught up. Its easy to say he laid the foundation in the beginning but the ish is just downright confusing when you're having pillow talk, meeting the parents and getting signals that point in the "relationship" direction.

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