The Friend Zone: Where Good Men Are Punished for Being Good Men

Let me open by stating that men and women can be friends. That issue, as far as I am concerned, is dead. However, you will find that women typically dictate the course of these “friendships.” Telling a man who likes you as more than a friend that you see him as “just a friend” is the most offensive thing you can say to him next to “I’ve had better” or asking “Is it in, yet?”

The “I only see you as a friend” statement is to men what “I’m not looking for a serious relationship” is to women. What both statements are really saying is, “I’m sorry, you are not qualified to fill this open position. Thank you for interviewing. Would you like to work in this unpaid, non-benefit internship instead?”

For context, let’s define it: Urban Dictionary - The Friend Zone: A state of being where a male inadvertently becomes a ‘platonic friend’ of an attractive female who he was trying to intitate a romantic relationship. Females have been rumored to arrive in the Friend Zone, but reports are unsubstantiated.

Ladies, this is like if you ask a sales person for a pair of red bottoms. Instead of the red bottoms she returns with Payless flats. You inform her that the Payless flats are nice but they are not what you wanted. Offended, she tries to sell you on the benefits of the Payless flats. She becomes upset that you cannot appreciate the quality of the Payless flats, assuring you that they are practically identical and serve the same purpose. Lastly, to add insult to injury, rather than giving you what you want she assures you that if you tryout the Payless flats for a while you’ll come to appreciate them as much as the red bottoms. You’ll forget you even wanted red bottoms. The Payless flats are just as good! She then turns around and gives away the red bottoms to some random chick and expects you to be ok with it.

This scenario is ridiculous – and this is how it feels for men when we want to be your boyfriend and you tell us you just want to be our friend. It makes no sense for you to get offended when you are trying to give us something we didn’t even ask for in the first place. You’re upset that we don’t just want to be your friend when we clearly stated that we see you as more than a friend upfront.

While I said in the beginning that men and women can be friends, I must clarify that Friends With Benefits (FWB) does not count. In this unique circumstance, you have to ask yourself would you two be friends without the benefits? If the answer is no, and it likely is, then you two aren’t really friends. Calling yourself FWB’s eases the realization that you and this man have nothing in common, share no similar interest and likely wouldn’t even acknowledge each other’s presence if it wasn’t for one of the key benefits – the exchange of great chex.

I’m not going to say women have bad taste in men, even though they do, but for a period of time in their lives women have bad taste in choosing the men they need versus the men they want. Often, there is nothing wrong with the men trapped in the friend zone. Let’s face it, the main reason you put men in the friend zone is because despite all his winning qualities that make him a great friend, you aren’t attracted to him “like that”. Men are the same way when it comes to pretty women. It takes men a significant period of their lives to realize they cannot establish a meaningful relationship based solely on superficial attributes. At some point, both men and women have to accept that the man or woman they want in their imagination may not be the man or woman they need in their reality.

A point often overlooked during these discussions is the fact that The Friend Zone is essentially a detainment camp where good men who weren’t good enough to be your boyfriend are banished. Why would we want to be there? It is not a reward. It is a punishment.

I know you’re saying “I have 10 or 20+ male platonic friends.” But, do you really? Does he call you only to talk (about conversations that have nothing to do with xes)? Does he even know/remember your birthday? Do you talk just as consistently even when you are both in committed relationships? If you answered “no” to any of these questions, then are you two really that good of friends or is he bidding his time until there’s a prison break and/or are you simply using your BFF until the next BF comes along? Be honest, is your “platonic friend” imprisoned in The Friend Zone by choice or mandate?

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  • http://Twitter.com/InAnimateAlpha Animate

    Slow clap leading to thunderous applause!

  • Delano Key

    As a man who has suffered through many of "Friend Zones" this (I feel) is pretty accurate. I have learned how to avoid getting caught into the friend zone mainly because dating will never be as simple as just saying "I like you, would you like to go sometime?"

    • That Dude P Cal

      Ain't that the sad truth about dating not being simple….But such is life. What I hate in the male/female dynamic is when women misrepresent what they want. They say they want "intelligent", "funny", "nice", "ambitious" but then (9 times out of 10) you see them with a dude who's the complete opposite. Certainly, men are guilt of this as well but not to the extent that women are.

      I truly think we're living in the age where the good guy may finally become extinct. Why should a man be chivalrous, do the right thing and approach a girl in good faith and intentions when she'll only keep you on the backburner while she's simultaneously smangling with some guy wayyy beneath your level?

      I always used to try to discredit the "nice guys finish last" saying in hopes that it wasn't true. Unfortunately, it seems like it is.

      • MikeSupreme84

        I definitely had to co-sign what you said…It really is a sad case of affairs that nice guys finish last because a lot of a nice guys have been misrepresented a lot of times as being doormats, having no backbone and what not. It really is deceiving when women misrepresent what they want by claiming they want a nice man but when that man comes along they pass h.im along for the complete opposite that treats them like shit. Another thing thats deceiving about the friend zone is when that woman that claims to like you as a so called friend doesn't respect you as such or is considerate to treat you like you should without insulting your intelligence. It seems like women don't appreciate chivalry nowadays or good men with the right intention of how to treat a woman like they should.

      • Starita34

        LOL, I’m really digging these parallel process that I’m seeing today.

        Men: “I’m not ready for a relationship right now”
        =
        Women: “We’re great friends, I don’t want to risk that by dating”

        Men: “Nice guys finish last”
        =
        Women: “Hoes be winning”

        We’re not so different….

    • chunk

      "…dating will never be as simple as just saying "I like you, would you like to go sometime?"

      But it CAN be. Sigh. Man we're making it sooo much harder than it has to be.
      My recent post The First Real Date

      • starita34

        IF she likes you. They could say the same thing about it's not that hard to get a man to commit…just seems like we always like the ones that don' t like us like that.

        All this stems from not walking away as soon as they indicate that they don't want what we want…which we all do.

  • NaijaSweetz

    Meh. All my close male friends have liked me at some point or the other. I honestly don't see the big deal about the friend zone thing because guys have a say in the matter — they can simply opt out. If the woman gets mad, then so what? You're not going to end up together anyway, and you're not interested in being friends, so just let it be and bounce. I've never punished a good man for being a good man; I'm merely not compatible with every single good man out there. I'm not a fan of headaches, so I've never actively sought out "bad" guys. The "it" factor that I desire is not completely shallow, so I don't believe that I have a problem. It's just a simple matter of chemistry (ha). The only people I've made a significant (and I use the term loosely) effort to be friends with are exes. Otherwise, I'll let a guy know that we can be friends, but if he's not cool with it, then we can be strangers. I won't get offended, because I understand that that was not his original intention.

    Perhaps I don't see the big deal simply because I'm fine with being friends with someone I once crushed on/liked. Sure, the attraction could still be there, but I know how to handle my feelings. Your claim that telling a guy you're not interested is offensive is interesting to me, because I once felt bad about doing it. I've since grown to realize that I'm doing us both (but mostly, myself) a terrible disservice if I don't let him know the truth upfront. If that makes me a villain, then I'll be that.

    • http://ladyngo.blogspot.com Lady Ngo

      #gbam

      I'm with you on this
      My recent post Random FB Toasting

    • Mr. SD

      "The "it" factor that I desire is not completely shallow,", its semi shallow?..lol

      • NaijaSweetz

        lol Well, yeah. I kinda sorta do have to be attracted to the fellow to some degree.

    • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

      Well, in fairness Naija, I must admit we do usually agree. lol

      I co-sign your entire first paragraph, although I will also add that what you're describing – in my experience and observations – is the exception, not the rule. A number of women guilt trip – for lack of a better word – men because they dont want to be just their friend. That doesnt make a lot of sense to me, because as you said, that he approached you romantically, not to be your friend. A number of women make this into a sexist issue of "men cant respect me as a woman enough to only be my friend" and that arguement is absurd. I would go further to say that if a man sees you as more than a friend it is a compliment. It means he sees something in you that makes him desire you in ways beyond a friendship. To me, that's a compliment, not an insult.

      • starita34

        <–guilty, but that stems from my suspicion that he most likely approached for sex, not a long term relationship. The Friend Zone when he's asking to be your man is an insult. The Friend Zone when he's asking to be your cutty buddy is throwing him a bone, giving him a chance to work his way up.

      • NaijaSweetz

        lol Yeah, we usually do.

        I think women think of it in terms of "oh, you only wanted to smash?" vs. you wanting to build something of substance with her. To be fair, a lot of guys promote the idea that if they don't have a chance to hit "it", they want nothing to do with it. "What I need female friends for? I got my dudes." Women then start looking at it from the point of view of objectification, because ideally, friendship should be blind towards gender. That's one theory, anyway.

        • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

          @Naija: "To be fair, a lot of guys promote the idea that if they don't have a chance to hit "it", they want nothing to do with it. "What I need female friends for? I got my dudes."

          Obviously I wont be Mr. Popular after today but I agree with this statement – somewhat. Most of us here are AT LEAST 21+. By age 21, I had all the REAL friends I needed because I had been chopping it up with men AND women for a number of years. Sure, I made more male and female friends but most of my real good friends I met in HS and in some rare cases, college. I say all this to say, that a grown ass man really doesnt need to make a brand new friendship with a grown ass woman, especially if he wants more than a friendship with her – be it a relationship or a sexualship.(1/2)

        • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

          (2/2)It may be objectification, although that is not how I look at it. Friendship is not blind towards gender. I'm sorry, it's not. I cant agree with you on that, homegirl. LOL. As I said in the write-up, most men AND women are only friends until a good relationship comes along. Like Dr. J said, most men AND women will give up the majority of their "friends" of the opposite sex once they are married. This clearly indicates that friendship is NOT blind towards gender. If it was your husband/wife would be perfectly fine with you having all friends of the opposite sex. YEAH RIGHT. Like I said, my GOOD friends of either sex are for a lifetime, not a season as some have suggested. If you can toss me aside after a season after we've been through thick and then, we werent that good of friends. And that's fine, but lets keep it real.

          Note: I use CAPS for emphasis, not to express yelling. L-O-L

        • NaijaSweetz

          lol No worries, I didn't think you were yelling at me.

          Remember, I was just offering a theory, although I do believe that's the root of the argument. I personally don't feel as though my friendships with guys are the same as the friendships with women. I also don't believe that the fact that a guy likes me means that we cannot be good friends; like I said, my personal history has proved otherwise..gaudy as it may be for me to point out.

        • Dr. J

          last word.

        • NaijaSweetz

          Nah, b.

        • cynicaloptmst81

          …and YES!

          All the way down to the note, LOL…smh…I was elevated but I wasn't yellling, lol…

        • cynicaloptmst81

          YES!…

    • starita34

      THIS though! "I've never punished a good man for being a good man; I'm merely not compatible with every single good man out there."

      • dave

        Good! Then do not call the "uncompatible" , single good man to help you carry your boxes and change your flat tire.

    • Dr. J

      The Dangers in saying things like, "All my close male friends have liked me at some point or the other." by Dr. J

      First off, CYPHA DON'T GET GASSED!

      Excuse me, second, your future boos should know this up front. So they can tell you that you can't hang around them from now on. Third, I applaud your gaudiness, impressive; you sure they wasn't trying to smash though? A lot of women confuse the two. Men will always put that option out there. I'll meet a girl and then be like, "Wait let me see if I can get whops before we be friends…"

      • NaijaSweetz

        Dude, you.do.not.know.me. You do not know the number of close male friends or close friends I have in general. I'll leave it at that.

        • Dr. J

          Never said that, just said why I wouldn't say what you just said. Only you can stop forest fires. But if I see you in there using a can of gas to start your campfire, I might be inclined to think you don't know what f*ck you're doing.

        • NaijaSweetz

          I'n not particularly concerned about anyone who can't draw the obvious conclusion that the point was made because of its relevance to the friend zone and male-female friendships. I don't run around throwing things out there for the sake of it. But thank you for your concern.

        • Dr. J

          Fiddles to find the remote…

          hits the mute button.

    • Cheekie

      "I've never punished a good man for being a good man; I'm merely not compatible with every single good man out there."

      RIGHT. Dating someone just because they're a "good" sounds like some "ah well, guess I gotta settle for you since there's no other good men left" type ish that I wouldn't want to be a part of if I was the dude anyway. lol

      • Cobra

        Point is…that's where a lot of it ends up anyway. When you get over a certain age, you don't have the same options. Junebug and Ray-Ray aren't calling you anymore. You might actually want a dude who has his act together financially or career wise, but you weren't "feeling" them before. All of sudden, a Honda Accord is "shiny enough." You can deal with 5'8" all of a sudden. That bald spot ain't as bad with the right cut. Maybe YOU'LL help him shop the next time he's looking for clothes, etc.

    • cackhead

      fuck u

  • http://www.simplymerenee.wordpress.com SimplyMeRenee

    This was a great post Wis, and I actually agree with everything you said. But did you ever think that sometimes women may put a man in the friend zone because they feel that a romantic relationship wouldn’t work? I only bring this up because it’s happened to me.

    • Come On People

      It happens all the time but…. I just feel if that person wants more, why toy with their emotions. Men feel that if you give them any time in a day, they still have a chance when most women know they don't. It is just as bad as a man staying in a relationship with a women that he know wants to get married and he know he is not marrying that chick. You have to make the decision to opt out of it. If you continue in the relationship giving them half of what they wants but not all you are waisting both your time and his. Same goes for the guys.

    • Nedu

      That’s why the few occassions it has happened to me I simply declined, friendship is not what I had in mind when I approached, friendzone just impedes the forward progress towards finding the next amazing VSS…..

  • http://fromraewithlove.com/ Rae

    Nice! Applause – especially at the end of the post where you go in with the friend check questionaire. It's so true though – if he doesn't remember or call on the important dates, if you're not talking about your daily life and not talking when you're both boo'd up there is a missing link somewhere.

    Most women to our chagrin, later realize those friends we weren't paying any damn attention to would have made the best husbands/mates/baby favahs, etc… (I know, I'm giving away secrets, but they're giving them away here, so…). Le sigh.

    My recent post Volume II : Things My Exes Have Taught Me…Yellow Brick Roads Do Exist

    • http://Twitter.com/InAnimateAlpha Animate

      I had a female friend that did what you described at the end there…we got married lol

      • GirlSixx is ChloeRayne516

        POW!!!

        Proof as I’ve stated before that “THE FRIEND ZONE” is no longer a death sentence, ya’ll just need to be patient and you might just get clemency.

        • Rick

          Nah, the male friend zone and the female friend zone are worlds apart. Two completely different entities.

        • Mr. SD

          Neh! damn all the waiting, its way too many women out here

        • http://twitter.com/kjnetic peter parker

          Word?
          So can we say the friend zone is mandel’s prison sentence?
          #giveUsFree

          I guess we struggle in this friend zone like Sarafina

          #FreedomIsComingTommorrow

          Lol

        • http://twitter.com/kjnetic peter parker

          *I meant Mandela’s prison sentence*

        • Dr. J

          Yo dead ass… I know a dude who waited until the right time to PHDO and it worked. I watched him, he was like Ali against Foreman. He took those daily blows and then when she was weak … he pounced. It's like Jordan Chase said, "Take it!"

      • starita34

        Sooo, I'm the only one that is shocked that Animate is married!? I didn't know! Congrats.

        • GirlSixx

          You've been MIA. He mentioned it a few weeks back that he got married recently.

        • starita34

          Awww, I just can't keep up without the comment notifications in my e-mail :-(

    • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

      @Rae: if he doesn't remember or call on the important dates, if you're not talking about your daily life and not talking when you're both boo'd up there is a missing link somewhere

      I agree. I didnt have time to cover this in the post but a lot of my female ACQUAINTECES only talk to me when they dont have a boyfriend. The second they have a boyfriend, it's hushed whispers or they go AWOL or they only call when they're having problems in their relationship. I'm like, "are we really friends?" (1/2)

      • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

        (2/2) A friend – male or female – is someone I can depend on through thick and thin, when times are good and when times are bad. This is not someone that is missing in action when I really need them simply because they have a significant other in their life. I can respect your relationship of course, but let's keep it real, if you have to hide me from your new man then we arent "just friends." Or if you can so easily move on every time a guy comes into your life, in my opinion, we arent friends at all. My TRUE female friends are people I can reach out to 24-7, 365, regardless of their relationship status.

        • KemaVA

          "Or if you can so easily move on every time a guy comes into your life, in my opinion, we arent friends at all. My TRUE female friends are people I can reach out to 24-7, 365, regardless of their relationship status. "

          Idk… Some women find it hard to keep friends (male or female) once they get a new boo. How would they do this and accomplish making the new boo their entire life?

        • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

          It's easy to accomplish. If someone is really your friend and not relentlessly needy them being able to contact you any time doesn't mean they're going to contact you any time. Pretty sure most new boos 'allow' their partner to have friends as long as you're not hiding people.

        • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

          What Malik said.

          I dont even understand the question Kema. lol I'm asking you to be a good friend not raise me like a small child. I have a few female friends that are in various stages of relationships (including marriage) and it's really not that big of an issue. Like I said, I respect the relationship, so I'm not going to call you at 3am asking for a handjob. However, if you fall OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH because there's a new man in your life, then we clearly were never that good of friends. Honestly, as I told Niiaja above, a lot of men choose to avoid this situation/headache by simply not having female friends, which is why we prefer to have homeboys, because we can depend on them no matter what. True story.

        • http://twitter.com/ashleydoublevay @ashleydoublevay

          YES, WIM! You really hit the nail on the head! I have a male friend that does this and it angers me so but yet he doesn't understand there's a certain commitment we have as friends and it's to be there when I need you or your support. Granted, his gf doesn't like me, but that's not my issue if you're going call me your friend and want us to have this friendship sincerely you have to do just that, but if I'm only going to talk to you every oh…three months this is a half-assed friendship that I don't need so keep it moving sir. So I don't see why he can't understand it from my POV, but hmmm… it is what it is.

        • http://48forpanache.blogspot.com 48.

          "How would they do this and accomplish making the new boo their entire life? "

          Uhmm I could have sworn she was being sarcastic:D Who wants to make anyone their entire life? heh
          My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

        • Kema

          I was! lol!

        • http://48forpanache.blogspot.com 48.

          Say it again!!! *whoosah* I'm so glad it's a guy bringing it up instead of a fellow female who automatically becomes a 'hater' Yeah a lot of women(in my experience) have a tough time balancing their friendships and love relationships. No, I'm like miss me with that disappearing acts or one-sided nonsense – no.
          My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

  • Jason A. Johnson

    This post has to be one of the best posts I have seen on this site. It really gives an insight into multiple things around the friend zone and makes sure people know what it feels like. And the line…

    "I’m not going to say women have bad taste in men, even though they do, but for a period of time in their lives women have bad taste in choosing the men they need versus the men they want."

    Pure Fact. And that is why I don't listen to females when they complain about guys. 99.95% of the time….she just made the wrong decisions and chose to be with the wrong dude. Can't blame a snake for biting you when you go play with it…its what they do. Just like females can't blame dudes for doing them dirty knowing they are bad to begin with (even when they lie and say "But he was so nice in the beginning"….she just ignored the red flags)

    Sidenote: I have put multiple females in the friend zone. And some of them did look good, I just didn't care enough to do anything more than just chill with them.

    • MikeSupreme84

      I have to co-sign with you on that because I definitely felt this post really hit home with me because I have lived through this personal experience countless times. It really does give a strong perspective making good points about the friend zone. Being in the friend-zone and liked as a so-called "friend" when they really don't even see you as that is about one of the worst things anybody can go through when you insult somebodys intelligence like that because you didn't want to hurt their feelings is ridiculous.
      You couldn't have said any more better with the pure fact that when females complain about guys 99.5% of the time because a lot of them love to be treated like shit and go after the wrong guys that do them dirty. With that being said that was also a great observation right there about snakes biting you after you play with them you cant blame them because they allow it.

  • Paul B

    I can’t argue with this blog at all. I’ve been put in the friend zone a lot in my younger years, but the thing that got me was when these same chicks would try to use me as the emotional support that those ninjas that were beating their backs out. My favorite line was “I wish I could find somebody like you” and I learned to be like “Why, so you can have more guys to overlook?”

    • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

      I've had to hit more than my fair share of women with the blank stare when they use the "I wish I could find somebody like you" line when somebody like me is staring them right in the face.

      • NaijaSweetz

        lol But someone like you simply means someone I feel "x" for, but who shares "x,y,z" traits with you. Like I said, not every good/great guy is the one. Are you guys really going to sit here and tell me that you haven't bypassed your fair share of "good women"? I get the fact that the women you're referring to probably needed to take a good long look at themselves and the people they were getting involved with, but still.

        • Paul B

          I bypassed one, though I don’t regret it. It wasn’t because I was interested in somebody else though. It was because I was in the worst part of my life, and I honestly wasn’t sure I was going to make it out alive, so I didn’t want to drag anybody into that. I did what I thought was right, especially knowing what she just went through herself.

  • http://moacn.wordpress.com Sir Fariku

    I think you captured it pretty much. I think most of the time for guys, if we are attracted to you we are indeed bidding our time till you become somewhat available. That said, I agree with you. Men and Women can be friends and I would go further to say you can be friends with someone you used to crush on. For me if you are attractive and we are friends that means at some point I must have crushed on you. Think about it, you are physically attractive and your emotional, mental and conversational attributes are good enough for you to be my friend, yeah I crushed you. If you are really just my friend, I m probably over it though.

    That said, the friend zone can be perceived as an insult by many men. Yeah I said insult. However, I think I have put ladies in a friend zone myself, basically in a "girl you are pretty but I m not gonna make a move cos I like the friend thing we got going on." The friend zone can be viewed in a positive way, if said girl is fine then she probably has fine friends and being her friend opens you up to a whole new network of ladies. Go get em'!
    My recent post In honor of Nigerian Independence, Launch of 419 Reasons to like Nigeria

    • Soulflower

      Interesting. I'm actually in the friend zone with a guy friend. I originally had a crush on him and thought if I became his best friend he'd eventually like me and it would work from then. Instead, we became best friends and even though he does tell me i'm pretty and all that great stuff, he has already stated he would never make any moves on me because he pretty much sees me as a sister/best friend. Well… I've moved on lol. That's just how the cookie crumbles sometimes…

  • http://sarcasmforbreakfast.wordpress.com MizzCam

    Great post, as usual. I have to agree with everything said. I’ve put guys in the friend zone in the past for purely superficial reasons, hoping that one day I could just get over the lack of attraction and we could live happily ever after. Sadly, that day has not yet come. =/

    • dave

      Use them like tools, MixxCam, they deserve it!

      • Just me

        The only tool here is you sir. Speak for yourself. I respect myself enough not to be in the friend zone for superficial reasons. I'm an attractive guy and I have a good life. If they can't value what I offer them because they're still looking past me to see what might be coming by next…fuck em. I'm either in your focus or I'm gone. The friend zone happens, and sometimes its ok. But to say that women don't play games is to say Boy George wasn't gay he just liked big hats. MizzCam pretty much just verified the point of the whole article.

  • theoneash20

    I will mostly stay out of this, because I have exhausted myself on topics like these… But here is my advice…

    Men – Stop being "Nice" or "Good" in the pursuit of getting pu$$y… Women see that sh*t & the triflin ones taken advantage of your transparent game… Learn how women operate & play the game… It is more than worth it… It is better to be rejected after tryin' to get some pu$$y than languish in the friend zone…

    Women – You got the men you always wanted… Sit down… & Stop complaining…

    WIM – I was just kidding about the SJ jokes (RIP SJ), when I lose someone dear to me, or experience someone going through a traumatic experience… (mine don't count) I will give you my two rusty Abraham Lincoln coins into that fray…

    SSTTE

  • peter parker

    Chuuch.
    Synagogue.
    Mosque.
    Tabernacle.

    i gave up.
    My recent post kjnetic: Meeting (@ African American Museum) <a href="http://t.co/jDhQ3Lrb” target=”_blank”>http://t.co/jDhQ3Lrb

    • GirlSixx is ChloeRayne516

      LOL.

  • MikeSupreme84

    Excellent blog from a strong perspective written in mind, with that being said the friend zone is a deceiving tactic that a lot of women use for their own benefit and a lot of times aren't sincere with being "friends" with that man. With that being said I know from personal experience time and again, as a young man who's dealt with the friend zone it really is a sad state of affairs when it seems like chivalry is dead in most ways and the nice guys are becoming extinct. You can be a nice guy and still have a backbone and self respect and still treat women like they deserve to be treated. Those women who use the friend zone tactic and pass the good man for someone that treats them like shit aka the bad boy/thugs reap what they sow when he does them wrong when they end up complaining about not being able to find a good man to treat them right.

  • http://twitter.com/itztrizz617 herbetteroption (@itztrizz617)

    Ladies get friend zoned too, go n brush ya shoulders off.

    I have plenty of platonic female friends and i dont see them as anything more. I think its harder for men to put females in the friend zone because its like eating noodles when you know theres a sub in the fridge. They subliminally hate on my relationships, throw it at me, listen to Keyshia Cole pandora as they wait but i value my friendships more than that quick cashew.

    • Streetz

      The female friend zone is a myth fam. THe only reason women get placed there, is because you either don't find them attractive, you grew up with them and see them as a family member, or you got friend zoned youself.

      The friend zone that male put famles in, is more like Purgatory, where a few prayers and biding time will lead you to paradise. The zone women put men is, is more like the Iranian jail. We were just hiking around not knowing any better, stumbled into seemingly friendly territory, and get placed UNDER the zone!
      My recent post 4 types of Twitter users who piss you off

      • http://48forpanache.blogspot.com 48.

        "The friend zone that male put famles in, is more like Purgatory, where a few prayers and biding time will lead you to paradise. The zone women put men is, is more like the Iranian jail. We were just hiking around not knowing any better, stumbled into seemingly friendly territory, and get placed UNDER the zone!"

        first off, i fell off my chair at the iranian jail analogy:D secondly, so he was correct to say that men do put women in the friend zone; The only difference is that it's easier to break out of jail?
        My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

    • http://48forpanache.blogspot.com 48.

      "Ladies get friend zoned too, go n brush ya shoulders off"

      Thank you for throwing that out there.

      My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

  • Hugh Jazz

    The Gospel according to Wisdom. This post sums up several of my comments made over the past three months when the topic came up.

    NaijaSweetz: "…guys have a say in the matter — they can simply opt out. If the woman gets mad, then so what? You're not going to end up together anyway, and you're not interested in being friends, so just let it be and bounce."

    This is terrific advice, and the same thing I've said several times here. Men, NEVER be friends with a woman that attempts to friend-zone you. Do not let them dictate that. In any relationship, the man has to set the pace. If she doesn't give you a relationship, don't give her a friendship. Walk away. All you are doing is torturing yourself by having a woman you are interested all up in your face, while she's talking about some other guy.

    • Smilez_920

      Do not let them dictate that. In any relationship, the man has to set the pace. If she doesn't give you a relationship, don't give her a friendship. Walk away. All you are doing is torturing yourself by having a woman you are interested all up in your face, while she's talking about some other guy.

      lol you know whats crazy, last week when that girl worte last week (to WIM) about the guy who would'nt give her a reationship or get serious with her even thought he gave her I like you signals. You (the men said) why cant you be his friend, he's a good guy. He was friend zoning her. Now it's the opposite way around and If she does'nt give him what he wants "a relationship" he should hit the road and drop her to associate status .

      If the girl is really your friend even if she does'nt like you like that yall can still be cool. If you drop her cause she does'nt like you then you really were'nt her friend, just another applicant trying to fill the position.

      • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

        Actually the men here were pretty divisive about whether or not she should have stayed. The majority, if I remember correctly, believed she should have left. That is not philosophically inconsistent with this in any way.

      • Hugh Jazz

        Someone has been paying attention!

        Since you clarified and said "the men", I'm not going to defend every man here. However, that wasn't what I wrote, personally. I specifically wrote she had three options:

        1. Agree to date other people.
        2. Leave him alone.
        3. Give him the attention of someone who's not dating her exclusively.

        None of those three options imply a friend zone. I wrote option three was her best choice, and elaborated by writing, "She should have put on her poker face, restricted the attention she gave him, and let him know she is waiting for a commitment to give a man her all. She should have rationed her time and attention, until he said he wants more."

        Tryin' to call me out! I'm consistent with mine!

      • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

        Actually @Smilez_920, I believe it was Most (aka fellow writer on the site, Mr. Spradley) who most strongly recommended she remain friends and if you go back to that exchange that was one of his points I disagreed with. I do not believe anyone should participate in a situation they are unhappy in, especially if they have control over the situation nor should that person be made to feel guilty about doing what is best for them. That's all anyone ever really wants – what's best for them. But, what's best for you may not be best for the other person That's where the disagreements begin.

        • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

          I agree with this. If you are unhappy in the friend zone, its your own damn fault for being there waiting for more. Just like it would be my fault staying with a dude who told me he doesn’t want a relationship. I would be dumb sitting there waiting for him to change his mind. It’s not about how likely she or he is to change. It’s about your dignity, time and worth.

          Ive recently had two guys I cared deeply about try to put me in the friend zone. We both had feelings and attraction, but a relationship wouldnt work. I knew I wanted more and I was not gonna be sitting there in pain, waiting, pining. I told them no, and I walked. If they change their mind, they have to come to me. My time is worth too much and my love, when i give it, is diamonds.

          Plus there is the issue of being used. I think people love to be pursued and adored and be in the position of constantly saying “no” when they know the person is captive and will wait and wait. It’s an ego boost.

          In my case, I had to ask myself. How is he my friend, taking advantage of my affections, the attention, my time. Knowing I am in pain. How does a friend continue to do that? I would not be able to continually hurt someone i truly cared about as a friend. I would lament their loss of dignity. A true friend doesn’t do that

        • http://justlissen.wordpress.com justlissen

          I was very moved by this comment:

          "In my case, I had to ask myself. How is he my friend, taking advantage of my affections, the attention, my time. Knowing I am in pain. How does a friend continue to do that? I would not be able to continually hurt someone i truly cared about as a friend. I would lament their loss of dignity. A true friend doesn't do that."

          this is so true!
          My recent post Fool for you

        • cynicaloptmst81

          "In my case, I had to ask myself. How is he my friend, taking advantage of my affections, the attention, my time. Knowing I am in pain. How does a friend continue to do that? I would not be able to continually hurt someone i truly cared about as a friend. I would lament their loss of dignity. A true friend doesn't do that"

          Excuse me, Malik….but…THIS STATEMENT RIGHT HERE!!!!!!!! ^^^^^^

  • Rob

    Amen!

  • http://pinchmycheekie.wordpress.com Cheekie

    "A point often overlooked during these discussions is the fact that The Friend Zone is essentially a detainment camp where good men who weren’t good enough to be your boyfriend are banished. Why would we want to be there? It is not a reward. It is a punishment."

    Ya know, lots of men use the argument that women constantly put "good men" in the friend zone despite them asking for good men. Well, I hope folks know that being "good" isn't the only quality that is required in a boyfriend. Hell, I don't want a no-good man as a FRIEND, either. And that goes for women, too. There are tons of "good" women that are just in the friend zone. It's not about not being "good enough" it's just that ya'll don't click in that way. And while I do believe that throwing out mixed signals to the friend-zoneded (making up words is fun if you know better) person is wrong, more often than not the person in the friend zone is in delusional mode and seeing signals that ain't even there. Just what they WANT to see. Mirage swag.
    My recent post Friday Foolery: Gettin’ Busy, Aquatically

    • http://www.simplymerenee.wordpress.com SimplyMeRenee

      *3 snaps around the world*
      Thank you for pointing that out. I’ve also read plenty of “she friend zoned me for the guy that treats her like sh*t”. Why is that a woman has to friend zone a guy FOR another? And is that man ALWAYS the dirty
      dog type? Always? Surely this is not the case.

    • Smilez_920

      I think the men who are put in the friend zone feel they are GOOD men b/c their comparing themselves to the guys that, said female messes with. It's hard for a man to hear you complain about how such and such aint acting right and he's ready to give you his all. It's like playing basketball, your team is down and instead of putting in the star player you put in the water boy, and get mad when he misses every basket.

      But men in the friend zone do misread signals/actions just like women who except that whole "Im not ready for a relationship line" when they really want a relationship.

      • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

        @Smilez_920: I think the men who are put in the friend zone feel they are GOOD men b/c their comparing themselves to the guys that, said female messes with. It's hard for a man to hear you complain about how such and such aint acting right and he's ready to give you his all. It's like playing basketball, your team is down and instead of putting in the star player you put in the water boy, and get mad when he misses every basket."

        She gets it.

      • Cheekie

        "I think the men who are put in the friend zone feel they are GOOD men b/c their comparing themselves to the guys that, said female messes with."

        Which is detrimential because that presupposes they were in the running to begin with. Which they weren't. lol And again, that goes for either gender.

    • chunk

      Thanks Cheekie. I'm always thinking, ummm we sure in the hell do get friendzoned. Yes, folks, beware of the Mirage swag!!!
      My recent post The First Real Date

    • Dr. J

      I'm going to snuggle my comment here next to these cheeks.

      The problem is not that this is a place where men who didn't have the Quan to be the boyfriend end up. No the problem is the lack of good men and the lack of male friends. We seeing it from the wrong direction. Women meet a dude and he's a nice dude and they would date him but they like, "Oh sh*t I ain't got no male friends and he would make a great one." That's what's happening… if a dude fell short of something they'd want in their life, they'd just not talk to him anymore. As proven by women who kick men out their life for being complete failures. They do that to their friends too! I seen it happen. I wouldn't take it as a bad thing if I was a dude, basically all she is doing is trying to fix her life up. Most of the dudes she meets are always trying to get ass or they are complete jerks. When she meets a good guy, she knows her vag might screw that ALL UP. So she suppresses that feeling and lets him be her friend so she won't have to be alone in her times of singledom.

      Bet five, soon as she get married, she don't need no male friends anymore, she has her HUSBAND. That's the only friend she need.

      • Top5DOA

        For this comment, i shall agree.

        Women definitely want a nice, non-threatening, shy male friend that doesn't have the balls to demand the p*ssy, but rather try to coerce the p*ssy by simply being nice. She'll use that "Nice" ish against him and take full advantage of his feeble attempts to court by brushing it off and continuing the "Woe is me" theme.
        But we also need to remember that women are just like men … they enjoy the company of a man just like men enjoy the company of a woman and chex isn't a prerequisite.

        • Vonnie

          It’s not that we want this. A man like this is destined for the friend zone. I’d prefer a nice, non- threatening (not nessarily shy) man with enough confidence to communicate his desire and determination for chex. Pursuing passionately can be surprisingly stimulating and get a man, who was once only considered for friendship, much further than being demanding.

      • Cheekie

        "I'm going to snuggle my comment here next to these cheeks. "

        #CommentCuffingSeason

    • starita34

      Cheekaleek with the fade away at the buzzer! Go on ahead girl!

  • Lyrically Inclined

    WIM, i luh you man for for this post (no Rainbow). If it were possible, i'd buy back every time i have been in a female's friend zone. Real talk.

  • https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1303528381 Michelle Cooke

    You men are so clueless. Men are not friend zoned for being good men, they are friend zoned because they are the wrong men. Simply being "good" men doesn't mean anything to me or any other woman. You have to be compatible and attractive to that woman. There all kinds of good men out there, but do I have to date them just because they say they are good, even though I don't want to? Um…NO? Btw, just because you deem yourself "good" doesn't make it so, either. You have to be the right man, not the "good" one.

    Quit being sore losers and get some common sense, Jesus Christ.

    • KemaVA

      Cosign! Lets take a look at the statement in the beginning

      "The “I only see you as a friend” statement is to men what “I’m not looking for a serious relationship” is to women."

      Why would a man think this about a 'good' woman? IMO the answer to this is the same as why a woman only sees you as a friend. You are just not what she wants. That chart seems to be right on point as to the why.

      • Smilez_920

        @kema, I agree that they line up. But one difference is when women are thrown the ” not looking for a relationship line” even if she’s a good women, she doesn’t know what other good women he’s lining you up against. The friend zone guy has probably been told about his competition, he’s been told about how old boy doesn’t call or act right yet he’s putting in all this work and still not winning.

    • madscientist7

      remember this next time a man "isn't looking for anything serious".
      My recent post #30for30

      • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

        @madscientist7 and boom goes the dynamite.

        Men will start being fine with being in The Friend Zone when women are fine with being in relationships with no commitment.

        Ready. Set. Go.

        • mizzcam

          Noooo. That's not the same! I'm not f*cking these dudes in the friend zone. [Well, maybe some people are]. *grumbles* Mixed signals ruin lives, y'all. Just be direct.

        • madscientist7

          ummmm you don't have to f*ck a friend to send mixed signals. women dangle just enough in front a man just to keep him around to lift heavy items, pick her up from the airport or be a shoulder to cry on.
          My recent post #30for30

        • theoneash20

          Okay Tunde… I like the awareness…

          Also play on a man's horniness to get some bread up out the negro…

          Men have to be put on…

        • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

          Mhmm, but be consistent, lovey. Say its the mans fault, because the woman has NO INCENTIVE to turn down all that attention, affection, favors, gifts, etc.

        • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

          Well, in the flip situation (men not giving a woman a commitment), it's worse because women are giving themselves to him physically (in some cases). If we are saying it's up to the man/woman to walk away if they are unhappy with the situation and not up to the person who IS happy with the situation to push them away – regardless of if they are a manor a woman – I wholeheartedly agree. However, I have found women/men dont want that type of accountability.

          It is easier to blame everyone else but yourself.

        • Charsi

          It's almost like when one member of a relationship wants to break up but doesn't want to be the bad guy there, so tortures the other party into breaking up instead.

        • GirlSixx

          Good Point!

          Because, Just like that man has NO INCENTIVE to turn down free poon, free GF benefits and good company.

        • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

          Id say consistent adoration, attention, assistance is worth waaaaaaaaaay more than poon. You have bought the hype about the value of poon.

        • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

          This is correct.

        • https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1303528381 Michelle Cooke

          @Misery, I never involve myself in anything without any type of commitment. I'm just that damn good. You're talking to the wrong woman. Oh, would you look at that. I just went there.

          @"mad scientist" I wouldn't waste my time on a man that isn't feeling me to begin with. If he doesn't want a relationship, it's on to the next and I don't let it get me down. Whatever. Like I said, you "homeboys" are so sensitive.

      • http://48forpanache.blogspot.com 48.
    • Dr. J

      If I could get women to understand this… I'll add this to my prayer list.

    • http://twitter.com/kjnetic peter parker

      You forgot to add…”man up”

      Lol

    • IvoryT

      Double cosign. Yes, Yes, Yes.
      For me if I give the friend option its usually because there are qualities in you that I feel are not compatible. Men carry the "good man" title around like that's all it takes.

    • theoneash20

      I actually agree with Michelle on this one… However, the dismissiveness of a male issue is what pissed me off about this… And women wonder where chivalry, male investment & marriage goes into the tank… It is because women can be so self-absorbed & only care about a man, when she

      turns 40 & has no options…
      CHecking for commitment from men way out of their legue
      has a son or male relative & he get railroaded by the misandrist culture we live in right now…

      And women like herself deserves a great life more than anybody… But I will not be shedding a tear if it turns out to be a total dumpster fire (& yes, I will be rubbernecking)

      SSTTE

    • Jupiter Calhoun

      You're missing the point. Rejection is one thing. If you don't want to be with someone, cool.

      But don't use their affection for you to get attention, their time, favors, etc. At that point, you're not being a friend…you're using them. Not a good look.

      • LaDarius Clark

        Thank you somebody said it right. We're saying that friend zone is when women uses men for their own benefits. It's a parasitic relationship.

    • ooh ok..

      DONE!! CoSign ==>MC

  • http://twitter.com/itztrizz617 herbetteroption (@itztrizz617)

    I think too much blame is being the Friend Zoners and not the Friend Zoned. If im feeling a chick she not feeling the same, am i just gonna stick around until she chooses to settle realize your potential. If people just knew when to take a knee these things wouldnt happen. Its been years and you still “wearing her down” stop it. As for the person friend zoner they are not obligated to reward you for being a “good person” (just ask the Denver Broncos). Its one thing if they’re leading on but if they are telling you how ol boy just put it down take the hint.

    • http://twitter.com/itztrizz617 herbetteroption (@itztrizz617)

      realize my*

      holy grammatical error Batman

    • chunk

      Thanks for this… for putting some of the responsibility on the person sitting there in the zone.
      My recent post The First Real Date

    • NaijaSweetz

      "Its one thing if they're leading on [...]

      This, I feel is key. It sounds to me as though the majority of complaints are geared towards women who actually send mixed messages and flirt with their so-called friends, knowing damn well they're toying with real feelings. That's definitely not friendship; that's exploitation.

    • http://48forpanache.blogspot.com 48.

      " Its been years and you still "wearing her down" stop it."

      LOL seriously.
      My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

  • ktcheval

    I have always said that I have no male friends because if either of us was ever interested in/wanted to sleep with the other, it doesn't count. But it's just easier to refer to them as friends because who wants to launch into a long explanation: "I've known this guy since my senior year of college and he is really great but I am just SO NOT attracted to him so I call to check on him every once in a while and we hang out on a a quarterly basis… I keep him at a distance because I know he likes me and I don't want to play games with him. And besides all that he was in a relationship, and had a baby without me knowing until the child was born." Ummm. Yea. That's too much information. So I just call him my friend and leave it at that. I know that if I were ever stranded somewhere or if I were going through a really rough time he would be there for me– cuz I've been there for him in similar situations.

    But really…I do have to be attracted to you even just a little bit in order to be in a relationship with you. Once, about six years ago, I ran into him at a club when I was out with some of my girlfriends and one of my girls called him a praying mantis because of this weird move he makes when he dances. Now, whenever I see him dance, that's ALL I think of…he looks like a praying mantis!!! Even before that, we shared a bed once and I wouldn't let him touch me. Like, at all. I woke up and his arm was around me. I sat straight up and said, "I thought I told you not to touch me!" Mean, but I was drunk. That's why I was even there in the first place. I can't do it. So he's definitely in the Friend Zone by mandate.

    • Top5DOA

      Poor soul.

      • ktcheval

        I *do* feel bad, which is why I don't reach out to him that often, and if we see each other it's usually because he hit me up. I wish I could have my friend back– before he tried to kiss me and everything changed. It's really awkward. You would think after 8 years and a baby that he'd give up…but not so much.

        • https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Buford-Novels/184836634862648 GDB

          If you knew him before all this happened to him, you could have saved him from all that! Ever wonder whether you killed his self-esteem and he had to downgrade his flow?

        • ktcheval

          I sincerely doubt that I killed his self-esteem. The girl he had his child with is no downgrade from me–she's gorgeous, she's smart, and she's a good mom. He was clearly doing his thing…he still is, but he also definitely still tries me.

  • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

    I don't understand why women use friendship as a consolation prize when asking for a date. Nor is waiting around wasting time and energy to 'break out' of the friend zone an option worth considering (outliers be damned). If you absolutely have to offer something let it be date with one your non-ugly friends.

    • chunk

      LMAO.
      My recent post The First Real Date

    • http://justlissen.wordpress.com justlissen

      I completely agree with this. I don't think I've ever put a man in the friend zone. And if he was attracted to me, and I didn't reciprocate, I would always find one of my very attractive friends who were looking as the consolation prize. And if they hit it off, yay *pats back* I'm a good Samaritan. If not, well I have a lot of girl friends (being in a sorority), we can just go down the list until you find one you like (lol)…

      I also feel like men and women have different friendships. I'm not going to get extremely personal with you, cry on your shoulder, or belabor my singleness with a male friend… that's why I have brother's and an adoring dad. They tell me the truth, and call me on BS. Maybe that's why I've never really looked for male friends…
      My recent post Fool for you

  • Jaidee

    Wait a minute here. As great as this post is; we are over simplifying a very complex issue and there's alot of hypocrisy against women here. Truth be told men have put women in the friend zone on several occasions themselves. If both parties are ok with being in the friend zone, then what gives? Who cares if they don't don't remain in each other's life after they've met a partner? Some friendship don't necessarly last a life time and serve a purpose for the time being. Sometimes some of these friendship although not long lasting have thought you great lessons. You think back on those fondly but life has brought you in a different direction, and that's ok. You guys can't sh*&?t on women and say they just make bad choice cause they didn't choose YOU! That's offensive! That's why it's called a choice. The same way men are well capable of deciding if they want to remain that friend although they want more. Choose wisely. Don't put yourself in a situation and then complain.

    • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

      Popular misconception: If BOTH parties are ok with being friends, that is not a Friend Zone situation. That's a friendship. Like I said in the beginning, men and women can be friends. That's a choice both have made.

      The Friend Zone implicitly means that one partner is intersted in the other as MORE THAN a friend. I do agree if someone chooses to remain miserable in the Friend Zone, male or female, then yes that is a decision they have made and thus, it is their fault.

    • Dr. J

      I'm about to break some glass on the dance floor….

      When men put women in the friend zone we don't make them pay for ish. Chicks ain't slick we see straight through you. I'm calling for all men to stop paying for ish when they're in the Friend Zone. I always bring cash to dinner with my female friends and I make sure to look at the bill SECOND.

      Chicks have friends around just to pay for happy hour and drinks at the club, maybe even a dinner at Red Lobster (but that Endless Shrimp tho…). You ain't slick, i'm slicker tho.

      • http://justlissen.wordpress.com justlissen

        I feel like I learned a lot right here. Between you and @WildCougar, I need to find some dudes and "friend zone" them so that I can stop paying for things when I go out… LOL I kid, I kid…

        But really though, this happens? These girls must have y'all's noses WIDE OPEN jojo! *takes notes*
        My recent post Fool for you

  • http://thesunk.com The Hallway

    The thing I find interesting about this post are the subsequent comments that followed. Women are flaky, all of sudden there is this huge influx of “good black men” out there and now you are “good”, but you just aren’t the “right man”.

    It(friend zone) doesn’t really bother me, I haven’t been friend zoned very much, but I just use women as a networking opportunity for money or either other bad friends that they might have. Chances are they have a friend that doesn’t want to put me in the friend zone, but instead tryna put this playa in the end zone *insert touchdown dance* LMAO(corny I know) Or Sometimes we mess around from time to time and I use them as accesories to attract other women, just like they use me as a source to figure out someone(man) they can actually pursue a fruitful relationship with. No big deal.

    My cousin always said, “If a chick doesnt want you than she isnt what you’re looking for.” (apply as needed)

    • starita34

      Some day it will sink in that when we say there aren't any "good men" we really mean that we haven't find the RIGHT man, that likes us back and wants a relationship. I truly, truly don't think there are many women out there that really think there are no "good men". We just can't find one that fits. Just like our closets…you don't really think we believe that out of all those clothes we really believe that we have "nothing to wear" do you? lol

      • http://justlissen.wordpress.com justlissen

        ^^^^^^THIS! You know there are a lot of great dudes out there, but you just cant find the one that likes you back in the same way. So though he's a good dude, he's just not a good dude for you.

        @The Hallway, I also think it's a maturity issue. Some women are still caught up on romantic fantasies, and some guys are still waiting for the ultimate woman. Soon we both will reach a point where loyalty, compatibility, comfort, and a great (blank) life is better in the long run than any perfect 10 mirage.
        My recent post Fool for you

  • http://twitter.com/bruiser_ham Larry

    Not sure what direction I want to go with this comment so I'll just turn left. Heck, 3 left turns make a right anyway, right?

    It appears that the women that are on the defensive on the premise of this article are arguing in some way, shape or form that:

    "Men are not friend zoned for being good men, they are friend zoned because they are the wrong men. Simply being "good" men doesn't mean anything to me or any other woman."

    My recent post bruiser_ham: RT @freakonomics: Immigration, Elasticity and Why Americans Won't Pick Onions (Yet). The economics of Alabama's immigration law. http:// …

    • http://twitter.com/bruiser_ham Larry

      (cont..) I believe the wrong context is being used here. I believe the angle the author is attempting to get across comes from the woman that complains about "there are no good men out here" or "my man never acts right, but Ima make it work…" etc.. etc.. and she is complaining/telling all of this to her "friend" who am sure she's told how great of a guy he is and any woman would be lucky to have him..etc.

      My recent post bruiser_ham: RT @freakonomics: Immigration, Elasticity and Why Americans Won't Pick Onions (Yet). The economics of Alabama's immigration law. http:// …

    • http://twitter.com/bruiser_ham Larry

      (cont..)

      Even if that's not the case, what is the general consensus narrative that all men hear when (some) women give their opinion on men? "All men are dogs"…."All men cheat"…."There aren't any good men left"….blah blah blah. If a man who believes he does not embody any of these characteristics, (granted he's bias, lol) hears and reads this day in and day out, that man will have some sort of chip on his shoulder more than likely. It would almost seem to the man he is unfairly being grouped in those categories just off of GP.

      My recent post bruiser_ham: RT @freakonomics: Immigration, Elasticity and Why Americans Won't Pick Onions (Yet). The economics of Alabama's immigration law. http:// …

      • fgdfgedhthr

        Just because you're "good", doesn't mean you attract her. If there's no chemistry, why would there be a relationship. You can be "good" all you want, but unless they are attracted to you, you can't expect them to want a relationship with you.

    • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

      I co-sign your theories.

  • Smilez_920

    I dont think the men are upset because were freidn zoning men, their mad beacause we rather give it a chance with a guy who is not good for us, rather than a man who is a GOOD MAN who could be what we need. I mean lets be real you look stupid when you friend zone a guy who takes the time to listen to you, share with you, and kick it with you with out sex, but your busy cahsing after some fool who, does'nt treat you right. It's like eating a cookie you found on the floor when you have a whole pack of good clean ones in the closet.

    • http://twitter.com/bruiser_ham Larry

      This woman gets it.

    • http://sensesocommon.blogspot.com Candi

      This is beautiful!!!

      BUT what if, the "friend zoned" man has characteristics, a past, distance .. some type of conflict of interest which you tend to notate or dwell on? I would think that (assuming there isn't another involved in this picture anywhere) the "friend zone-er" would probably be taking these notes into consideration. They both know that it probably wouldn't work so why even put in the effort. OR it really could be a platonic friendship that you just don't want to mess up…
      My recent post Facebook Hoe

      • Top5DOA

        Cuz this is how the timeline goes:

        He saw u, liked u, wanted to get with u … You placed him here —–> Friend Zone.

        He took on that friend role, while doing whatever the eff he wants to with his life (that doesn't include the zoner).

        So you can't hold any of that against him because it doesn't matter … u put him in the Zone before all of that, plus how is that any different from the conflict of interest that u forced on him w/ dating "less than guys" and complaining to him about your love life. Trust, he took notes before u did.

    • http://codecipher.blogspot.com MeteorMan

      awesome
      My recent post How to implement an OODBMS (pt. 1)

    • Paul B

      Brilliant

    • Just Me

      Smilez is the first woman to address the actual point being made. I'm a whole box of goddamn fresh delicious cookies. Eat your dirty cookies ladies. Enjoy the grit and the pubic hair that was on it and now in your teeth causing you to hurl and call your friends and cry about it.

      It happened to me just once in my adult life and although short lived I learned a lot. I simply told her no thanks and walked. Stopped answering the random texts and calls. I was unavailable to her. What had she done to deserve my time and attention besides side lined me to watching her be with other men and fail because that fucking dirty cookie was always so wrong it was right…but still wrong when it came down to it. And here I sat, still a dude that thinks chivalry isn't dead.. a "good man".

      Good men are not your cute wingman to bring to the club and then stand back and wait for free shit to begin appearing because you already spent your check on shoes or a handbag or booze on another night.. We're not here to guide you through the bad romantic decisions of your 20's to later in your 30's and 40's FINALLY become visible again. If I had a dollar for every time I've seen a woman post about wishing to find a good guy, someone who respects them and treats them how they deserve… I'd own the internet. (impossible, which is the point) And the ironic point is that generally these are women I've seen reject a man they dated because She wasn't attracted to He because he was too frequently too nice. (excuses list) Only to get into a relationship with an emotional wife beater and chase him until its a bloody saga of self-torment.

      I guess it really comes down to maturity of both parties. The Genders here develop differently. Now that I'm 30 I look at anything less than 25 as not worth my time. These women don't know who they are, what they want, or how to treat a good man. They don't value what is important. They value superficial features of a man, on their journey to self discovery and self worth. As a man trying to sail through this harbour of land mines I can only really say…get a hobby, get two hobbies. Have guys friends in those hobbies. And date whenever you can Men!…but keep those hobbies because until that magic number arrives where a woman is able to see your worth…those hobbies are a lot easier to count on being around. And will be there to get your back.

      And women…don't expect a guy to commit to you until he's ready. There are of course extremes of this that are not cool and total horseshit. But Let's put it this way..We spend our 20's learning not to trust you because you change your minds like you change you wallpaper on your phone. If you want a commitment then show that you're committed. And keep showing it. Like it or not your sisters of the gender have made life harder for you along that road.

  • chunk

    "In this unique circumstance, you have to ask yourself would you two be friends without the benefits? If the answer is no, and it likely is, then you two aren’t really friends."

    This line right here. Thank you X 1 million. I hate FWB term because it's sooo over used. I'd actually love to have a couple FWB situations. It's like the best of both worlds. But really, that's not what most people are talking about… they're just screwing. So just say that. Grrrr. Exhale.
    My recent post The First Real Date

    • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

      As rare as it may be, there are fwb relationships that work. I’m in one. We talk, hang out, sometimes no nakedness occurs. I tell him about other dudes and he gives me advice and vice versa.. He’s a real friend that I want to keep when the s.ex stops. But it started with s.ex. From day one.

      • Top5DOA

        Day 1, eh?

        *Nods Head*

      • chunk

        I agree it exists, I've had a great one! But it's rare in my opinion, and I stand by my statement that a lot of times people say FWB but they aint doin nuthin outside of screwin… which is not what FWB means to me… therefore: "I hate FWB term because it's sooo over used."
        My recent post The First Real Date

        • GirlSixx

          You're right because FwB to me mean we actually do get to hang out and/or chit chat plus the benefits. If you are just screwin — I believe the term for that is "Cut Buddy/"Bed Boo"/Jump-off" but hey I could be wrong though.

        • GirlSixx

          I think people especially women overuse the word FwB because it sounds so much better when saying it out loud when telling your girls rather than saying "Yeah girl I'm about to go lay up with my cut buddy/jumpoff for a minute" lol

          Yeah FwB sounds more Politically Correct.

        • chunk

          I agree… like oh it aint ho'in because he's my _friend_ too. *side eye* No gurl, y'all just screwin, don't be confused boo.

          And that's not in judgment of ho'in, because really I think the whole gender based double standard surrounding sexual "promiscuity" is BS and that ho'in has its place.

          Yeah, I said it, it has its place. I might not wanna join the ranks, but if I did, I'd middle finger anyone who acted like I was somehow less of a person.
          My recent post The First Real Date

  • KemaVA

    To any guys feeling some kinda way about being friend-zoned I suggest you take any advice you would give to a woman in a FWB/F-Buddy situation that wants a relationship. Whatever that advice may be.

    Because really the problem in both cases is you feel like you are giving but not receiving.

  • InsomniaPoet

    hahaha you poor babies with your bruised egos! Get over yourselves. Men do what they want with us ALL the time. They independently make us sidechicks when we think we are on the path to wifey. Or pop up with a wifey when they just told us they weren't looking for a relationship etc. etc. So we put yall in the friendzone from time to time. You act as if you are sitting in the friendzone just pining away waiting for us to give you the time of day. The entire time you are in the friendzone you probably have some next chick(s) working on being wifey. No one feels sorry for y'all. Either ride it out and wait for her to have the drunken night of desperation or bounce.

    • GirlSixx

      "You act as if you are sitting in the friendzone just pining away waiting for us to give you the time of day. The entire time you are in the friendzone you probably have some next chick(s) working on being wifey. No one feels sorry for y'all. Either ride it out and wait for her to have the drunken night of desperation or bounce. "

      There it is!!

      *Throws $10 in the offering plate and walks away Laughing*

      • KemaVA

        Yep yep!!!

        *takes the $10 out and puts in $5*

    • Smilez_920

      Yes girl! Men on here acting like their sitting by their window wishing on a star that their homegirl will give them a chance. Dudes in the friend zone might like you but he’s not waiting around for long. He’ll leave the door open but don’t be shocked if you walk in late and he has someone new. Men don’t like the friend zone b/c it means there is a little chance he will get some sex from you and that does’nt sit well with him. When the dude throws the I’m not looking for a relationship line it takes you out the running for a girlfriend spot but not for sex.

      • GirlSixx

        "Dudes in the friend zone might like you but he's not waiting around for long. He'll leave the door open but don't be shocked if you walk in late and he has someone new. "

        For real — Especially if he's a self-proclaimed "GOOD MAN"

    • http://justlissen.wordpress.com justlissen

      I can agree on some points, but I also think that the big complaint of the male commentors is that they are the crystal clear good dudes, and we pick the watercolor version of a good dude which is more blurred.

      I guess it depends on whether dudes are innately good and turned bad? or whether they are all dogs and some just bark louder and longer than others… I have no answer.
      My recent post Fool for you

    • Angie

      Great comment. I totally agree. Men act as if they really want to be with most women. Most of the times they have absolutely no intention if being a boyfriend, they just want the sex Soo what is the problem really?

    • theoneash20

      You are referring to two different kinds of men.

      Apex fallacy strikes again…

  • cynicaloptmst81

    LAUGH OUT LOUD!!!!

    Every good person…woman or man…is not right for YOU, lol…smh. You can be a good dude with SERIOUS issues or characteristics that would conflict with mine. Great friendship does NOT equate a great love relationship. There is NO FRIENDSHIP ZONE! There is only an I DON'T WANT YOU TO BE MY MAN/WOMAN zone. The friendship won't work right if both don't feel that way…so how can there be a true Friendship Zone????? Friendship has NEVER stopped me from dating a man if that's what I wanted to do…NEVER! LOL…smh…

    Personally, I believe that once a person wants more than a friendship, the friendship is OVER. They canNOT be a true, sincere friend and still be looking for openings. At some point, constantly being overlooked will turn to resentment…hurting feelings. I DO NOT keep those men around during that time…I fall all the way back until THEY choose a friendship with me…then we can chat it up again.

    • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

      Imma need you to calm down and stop abusing the shift key.

      • GirlSixx

        Falling the hell Out!!

        Malik you crazy.

        smhl

      • cynicaloptmst81

        *reviews comment*

        My bad, lol. This topic fires me up a bit…

        There was a lot of foot stomping and goose-necking involved as I typed that, lol…smh

    • Lyrically Inclined

      Damn.

    • NaijaSweetz

      "Personally, I believe that once a person wants more than a friendship, the friendship is OVER"

      I disagree. Some people are better than others at setting those feelings aside, particularly if they feel as though a friendship is worth it. And some friendships are strong enough that, instead of trying to ease his/her way during your moments of distress, he/she will sincerely try to help you through your relationship. There are some friends who go through years without having a clue that such and such friend actually cares for them beyond a certain level.

      • cynicaloptmst81

        I think what you're describing is the exception and not the rule.

        "Some people are better than others at setting those feelings aside, particularly if they feel as though a friendship is worth it." <<< I think the number of people who suck at it outnumber the folks, such as yourself, who are good at it, lol. You got skillz, Naija, lol…skillz I don't have.

        • NaijaSweetz

          lol, I guess you're right. Don't get me wrong, though, I believe in falling all the way back if you can't handle it. Not every friendship is worth holding on to. Plus, as has been pointed out numerous times today, a lot of so-called friendships are actually acquaintanceships.

    • Streetz

      There is NO FRIENDSHIP ZONE! There is only an I DON'T WANT YOU TO BE MY MAN/WOMAN zone

      Sorry Cyn Cyn, but this is a false statement. There def is a friend zone. Its the "he would be right for me, but not right now, so imma keep him in my pocket until im ready. That way, I can fcuk all the wrong nikkas I want, and my good lil friend will be there, like a My Buddy doll"

      See what I mean?
      My recent post 4 types of Twitter users who piss you off

      • cynicaloptmst81

        I do see what you mean…regarding the messed up, selfish situation. I think my issue is with the use of the word "friend". If we replace that word with "flunky", its all good. "The Flunky Zone", lol. If she really considered you a real friend, she wouldn't do you like that. I think its easier for you guys to think she ultimately views you as a "friend" rather than to accept that, if she's using you, she doesn't view you as a friend…you are just her flunky…the stand-in, lol. And, your nose is so wide open, that you've made excuses for being her flunky, lol. If she's using what she knows about you (you want her…got feelings for her) to stroke her ago…knowing she doesn't want you, she is NOT your friend…at all…she doesn't have a "friendship" anything for you to put you in.

        I don't use the term "friend" or "friendship" loosely…maybe thats the issue I'm having, lol…

    • SYJ

      Can we please get past the notion that attractive women do charity work by hanging out with cornball guys just because they like good conversation? GTFOH, a woman that looks good is usually in the company of other attractive peole- male and female. Hell, a nice looking woman often wont be friends with other woment who arent on her status in terms of looks, fashion and size. The same applies for male friends. If you werent feeling him in SOME way you all wouldnt be talking. If the guy was much older, overweight, waring thick glasses and had no swag you wouldnt even be friends with him. You wouldnt even want to be seen in public with him.

      • cynicaloptmst81

        I kinda see your point…regarding the look of your friends. I'm not one to have a lot of solo time with my male friends. I have a couple different groups of friends and we usually hang out together. I talk to my male friends a few times a month. I treat my male friends like male friends…they ain't my homegirls so we ain't chatting it up every other day, lol.

        Its this kind of space and distance that keeps things in perspective and keeps lines from being blurred…

  • http://sensesocommon.blogspot.com Candi

    Well put. I have a few friend girls whose been through these scenarios, BUT, not I. I'm not a "friend" type person. I don't even have a circle of female friends. So when I'm hit with a guy who is interested and I'm not, I don't offer the "let's just be friends" because I would rather do without extras. Any platonic guy friends I have were created from childhood. I can't be "just a friend" with a guy who I know have interest in me or vice versa, feels like it sets an awkward mood for the atmosphere.
    As far as "the nice guy", I love them!!! I admit I went through my "bad boy phase", not a pretty history so to speak and I don't regret it. I've had my share of (what I believed) were nice guys; at least that's how it started out. In my endeavors, everyone lacked consistency. Everything you could want in a man eventually went *capoots*.
    My recent post Liars, Cheaters and Thieves

  • Hugh Jazz

    OK, a lot of women here are starting to get a little out of order, so it's time for some clarification.

    Over the past few weeks, there have been many complaints in the comments about women not getting chose for several reasons. Women started complaining about men needing to "man up" and let a woman go if they aren't interested. Women were even saying after they agreed to a FWB relationship, they can't be bothered to do what's best for them on their own, a man has to read her emotions then do what is in her best interests. (1/2)

    • Hugh Jazz

      (2/2) (Stupid word limit)
      Our response to those comments was women do the same thing via the friend-zone. In response to those comments, Streetz said he was dropping the friend-zone post last week, but I suppose he alley-ooped it to WIM (and WIM slammed it down with authority). So there's no need for all these "men do it too" comments; we already know that because this post is the direct response to women complaining about men not choosing a "good" woman.

      So all these laughable comments about men being "so clueless", "sore losers", and having "bruised egos" apply to women as well. At the risk of sounding like a four-year old, y'all started it!

      • theoneash20

        @HJ

        And I just want to remind people…

        The same men who are friend zoning & FWB women are usually NOT the same men who are checking for relationships & want to be decent men…

        After women get tired of being a second-class s*x partner to a man who is out of her league… Then she wants to go back to the males better suited for her, and play dirty…

        Fun

      • dgfgdege

        Niether side has any right to complain that someone they like doesn't like them back.

  • Fuzzy

    Interesting read. I guess I never thought of it this way. Reading this, I may need to pull out my friend-o-meter and check my findings again. I have always looked at it from my perspective. Can I remember his birthday, would I talk to him about the stupid stuff that happened on the daily, do I value his opinion on life decisions? I never once asked myself do I think he remembers my birthday. I would think I, like most women, start planning our birthday festivities way in advance anyway. So even if he didnt know it we would most likely say. “My birthdays coming up in Two Weeks, and I have no idea what I’m going to do.” The ploy “I’m not doing anything for my birthday this year”…in hopes that the friends will say let’s hang out. Or simply start the birthday countdown ourselves. With the people we are dating we tend to play the “Tell him and lets see if he remembers” game. (I dont think its done purpose, we just think that if he is interested he WILL remember the day I was born) Whats funny is with facebook and myspace they will always have a reminder (unless you choose to make your birthday private! that usually weeds out the friends from the aquaintances oor stalkers lol). The other things questioned I accommodate between a few different friends… In hindsight my friend-o-meter findings show I most likely have had a bunch of Acquaintances. Though I’m not much into labels anymore lol. *(Kanye Shrugs…NTS: change everyone from friend to acquaintance on fb, lmbo)

  • Trig

    I've never been friend zoned because I wouldn't simply allow myself to be. If I become interested in a woman and get even the slightest inkling that she's not interested in return I bounce — no exceptions.

    Why? I simply don't believe in making anyone a priority if they views me as an option. And it's never personal. Few dead giveaways that you're headed to the friend zone (or already there):

    -She only calls when she's hungry. Right after you feed her, "something" suddenly comes up and she runs off without so much as a goodbye hug. Subsequently (and coincidentally) she'll be too busy with work and/or school and won't have time to see you for awhile.

    At least until some new restaurant downtown opens up.

    -She only calls between 11P and 3A (or whatever time the club closes your area). Usually, she wants one of two things: 1) Some butt or 2) you to keep her awake while she drives her drunk a** home. If it happens to be number one and your cool with it just being a physical thing between you two, go for it.

    If she just wants to ramble on the phone like you're one of the girlfriends until she reaches her door, it's in your best interest to start ignoring her whenever she calls. Chances are you were just one of her many options anyway. Smarten up, and dead it.

    -And by far the biggest indicator that you've been friend zoned:

    She only calls when she needs something. This one can be tricky because women know this tactic directly appeals to the provider in men. We men are hardwired to enjoy doing things for womenfolk and most of us actually enjoy it. Women are experts at playing the damsel in distress role when it suits them. What men need to be mindful of here is that if whatever she's asking you for involves you parting with some money, then you're nothing more than a "sponsor" and a resource of convenience.

    The obvious fix here is to get it out of your mind that she doesn't want you. I understand you have difficulties letting go because she has an a** like Kim K. or whatever….but she's just not that into you bruh.

    Get better.

    So all this begs the obvious question, how do you know when someone likes you? In my mind, it's very simple: Time.

    When someone really wants to be with you, they make themselves emotionally and physically available. Yall talk regularly, you hang out, go places together……all that good stuff. I think people tend to overthink this concept and instead opt to micro-analyze "signs" when the truth it right there your face.

    If someone really wants to be with you, they will.

    Anyway I'm out. I'll be back to check responses later.

    • Dr. J

      "If a woman tells you she's not having sex with you — ignore that sh*t." – Tucker Max

    • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

      This is the truth. That is all.

  • Lyrically Inclined

    I see the counter arguments to the Friend zone ish in the comments but some of y'all are making a fallacy here: It is not necessarily about females putting dudes in the friend zone because they are "Good guys," it's just the existence of a concept called "friend zone" that I (and probably most dudes) have a problem with. The good guy argument is weak IMO.

  • madscientist7

    "Does he call you only to talk (about conversations that have nothing to do with xes)? Does he even know/remember your birthday? Do you talk just as consistently even when you are both in committed relationships? If you answered “no” to any of these questions, then are you two really that good of friends or is he bidding his time until there’s a prison break and/or are you simply using your BFF until the next BF comes along?"

    based on this criteria i have about 5 strictly platonic female friends.

    i haven't been placed in the friend zone in a long time. i learned that if i meet a woman that i'm interested and she wants to try to place me in the friend zone i'll simply let her be. i have enough female friends. they're great people too. i don't need anymore. i think when one friend likes the other romantically then the friendship is not balanced.
    My recent post #30for30

    • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

      Yeah. I'm not trying to put anyone on front street (LOL) but #inreallife, most men and women are not that good of friends in my opinion. I have about 2 – 3 REAL good female friends myself. I know of 100s of women. We cool, and despite how they might describe me, we are not friends. In general, above is what I use as criteria to figure out who my real friends are. Friends, for me, take years and years of vetting for me to really get to know you and see if you are down for the cause, which is why I have so few friends but a lot of people know me and I know them – acquaintences.

      Frankly, I dont make a lot of female only "friends" because they tend to not be very dependable. If you disappear every time a random man comes in your life, how can I depend on you? That's why I have (trustworthy) homeboys and homegirls. You, on the other hand, are clearly replaceable.

      • madscientist7

        yep. exactly. the women i call my friends have been down with me for YEARS. my best friend is a woman. i've known her since i was 16. we went to the same college (every class together) and same graduate school (same lab). we've seen each other through breakups and divorce(s). our friendship is still strong as ever. can't say i've had that same type of interaction with 99% of the women i know.
        My recent post #30for30

  • http://livelovesingwithme.tumblr.com LiveLoveSing

    I will co-sign all of this. The Friend Zone happens, even though some women will deny it, and a lot of the time its because we don't want to hurt anybody's feelings or just want to keep homie on the back burner. WIM says it's the same as 'I'm not looking for a serious relationship," I don't think they are equal, but they are very similar because the end game is the same. Personally, I believe the doer in both cases is selfish; you want to keep someone in arm's length for your own benefit. It's a twisted game of cat and mouse and It takes a better person to just cut the love-struck party off completely. It might suck for the person with the upper hand, but it makes a world of difference to the other person who can at least attempt to KIM.
    My recent post ramblingsofaworrier:

    new AWKWARD BLACK GIRL: I was feeling a…

    • theoneash20

      GOD, those Awkward Black Girl Episodes are epic…

      I even watched it in 720p… That ABG is on to something…

      • http://livelovesingwithme.tumblr.com LiveLoveSing

        Epic is a great word to use when describing ABG.
        My recent post ramblingsofaworrier:

        new AWKWARD BLACK GIRL: I was feeling a…

      • http://justlissen.wordpress.com justlissen

        Man i watched that last episode cried laughing… when the girl says: C'mon white boy, jump!
        Lord that was hilarious!
        My recent post Fool for you

        • Adonis (@MOTRenaissance)

          @Justlissen

          Art imitating life… It is a beautiful thing

  • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

    I think we should address the anomaly of 'Men Putting Women in Friend Zones': It is statistically irrelevant. The vast, vast majority of relationships are started because of men approaching women. The liberated women generations haven't changed that. Regardless of how often it is for women to drop the panties immediately, they are still looking to get chosen by men when they want or are waiting for a relationship. I'd say the numbers are roughly ≥ 95% of men asking women as opposed to the opposite.

    • KemaVA

      Its when a man starts the approach process but then sees something that makes him change his mind. She is not the FWB type so now "she's just a friend"

      • Paul B

        I’m not sure we operate like that. If we approach you and something makes us change our mind during the approach process, I’m pretty sure we’ll call it a wrap altogether generally.

  • JanieCrawford

    Hello, I have been lurking for a while and had to make a comment here…

    I understand the angle the author is coming from, but then feel compelled to ask this question:

    How is a man who's upset about a woman too blind to see his perceived value any different than the woman he complains about?

    There are women out there who can't understand what he sees in his 'friend.'

    Seems like an endless, hopeless loop of frustration to me.

    • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

      Thanks for de-lurking. Welcome!

      I didnt really have an angle to be honest. I've witnessed the "Friend Zone" debates all around the web and thought I'd throw my two cents into the fray. I will say that you are right: "Seems like an endless, hopeless lop of frustration." – for both men and women.

  • Mix

    I've read the comments and have a few responses, I can take rejection and a women not feelin me like that and still be her friend and give her advice about without a shred of jealously…I'll help anybody that's my nature. But I started seeing things a chick logic perspective and saw they were just using me,for emotional support and when they are getting their ginuwine on ”only when ur lonely”. Like I said I did it to help, not to in these women's pants. This comes down to women not knowing what they want, it changes like their weaves they have 5 men for different reasons lol. They would ask me questions about men and their mind was already made up, they wanted me to co-sign their bs and tell me I don't know what i'm talking about(I
    guess I don't know nothing about men). To Sum it up this friend zone sh!t was a blessing in disquise because I know women so well now I see the b.s before it's starts. So now all the women who friend zone me and said you are like a brother to me, are now on my jock funny how time flies.

  • Top5DOA

    After being friend zoned something terrible my freshman year in college by this one young lady, I kept that friendship as a means to learn what not to do every day … By my sophomore year, I learned that why would i even want to be with a chick who lacks vision like that anyways.

    Being friend-zoned in college is normal (ish happens), but NO WAY IN HELL should a man allow being FZ'd after college. I'm positive you know what it looks like after college cuz more than likely it's happened in college. Just Say No. And that whole bidding your time thing. Don't waste your time waiting. If it happens, MAKE her have to take all the steps to ensure it's real and not a bought dream.

    • Top5DOA

      (cont.)
      There's this old white man and old white woman that i THOUGHT lived together. They're both single, both old, both friends, both been knowing each other for eons, but after talking to them one day i realized that he's been eternally damned in the Friend-Zone. Blew my mind. So fellas, like i said "Don't wait" … I'm trying my best to kill your hopes, dreams, aspirations, vision (ALL DAT).

      • MikeSupreme84

        I really think that its the best way to do that is to kill the hopes dreams aspirations vision of false perceptions of wanting something more than what it is because the woman who lays down the friend zone trap and places false hopes is a disease of false hope something that I think what you are telling the young men like myself to avoid because things like that is like cancer you have to kill it before it spreads throughout the body and makes you sick and kills you with false perception and you will end up like that old man being eternally damned in the dreaded friend zone. Great advice sir and I definitely had to co-sign on that right there what you mentioned.

  • http://codecipher.blogspot.com MeteorMan

    This is analogous to a man's "I don't want a relationship right now" zone. In both cases, the gender that is applying the zone is attempting to reap the benefits of association. men: sex, company, etc.. women: someone that'll listen, do ish for them etc…

    Just like when a man wants FwB and the woman doesn't, when the woman wants to be "friends" and the man doesn't, they should go their separate ways. Two people who want different things… Why stick around?
    My recent post How to implement an OODBMS (pt. 1)

    • cynicaloptmst81

      I can get with this comment but I think its the use of the word "Friend" before "Zone" that's throwing me off.

      I mean, you can't really call the guy your friend if you're using him as a shoulder or flunky until you find a man…who does their "friends" like that??? As a matter of fact, the word that I've most often heard my female friends use to describe these men…flunky.

      • http://codecipher.blogspot.com MeteorMan

        I agree kinda…

        But I've learned that people use the would "friend" as a euphemism for "they didn't make the cut" or "I'm not interested" or "that person is oooglay."

        My friends NEVER have to say, "we're just friends right?" because friendship is organic and not a consolation prize. To be ZONED is a reaction to something displeasing or a disappointment. Real friendships are born from something we approve of.

        Back in the day, this lady thought because we dated and we didn't work out, that meant we were friends. My response: "We are NOT friends."

        Attempted romance is NOT the same as a budding friendship. Quit playing…
        My recent post How to implement an OODBMS (pt. 1)

        • cynicaloptmst81

          I wish this wasn't so embedded into the comments, lol. This comment is absolutely correct!!!!

  • bellatrice1

    I am probably one of few women who don't bother putting men in the friend zone. I have enough friends and family to keep up with.

    I feel women who put men in the friend zone only do so to continue to garner some sort of male attention until they meet a guy they really like. I don't need some dude to hang out with just on GP. If I'm not interested, I will likely let them go. I also don't make it a practice to be friends with my exes. I like a nice clean break.
    My recent post Dear TT: Should broke men date?

    • MikeSupreme84

      With that being said right there I have more respect to the woman who is honest enough with herself and the man to let the man know upfront in a respectful way that she is not interested instead of planting false perceptions and deceiving games of wanting to be so called friends with that man when she doesn't even respect him like that.

  • Humble_One

    Good post WIM. After reading a few comments by women saying

    "I honestly don't see the big deal about the friend zone thing because guys have a say in the matter — they can simply opt out. If the woman gets mad, then so what?"
    "You men are so clueless. Men are not friend zoned for being good men, they are friend zoned because they are the wrong men."

    Out of these 2 comments and the tone of a few others I get the impression women feel "so what?".
    I don't get friend zoned anymore. But when I did women put me there. When my game got refined I realized that women putting men in the FZ is some selfish BS. If you know a guy likes you and you don't feel the same way about him cut him off. If he is still chasing after you tell him to go that's his simp @ss problem. What I see is women putting men in the FZ and using them emotionally. They deal with @ssholes and jerks and the dude in the FZ is a rest haven. Women will even put you in the FZ and get PISSED when you mess with other women.

    Men: if you get put in the Friend Zone and you want more or even just to sleep with her you have two choices. Become that friend or leave her alone. When I say become that friend I mean treat her no different than you would your homeboys.

    Women: If you put a man in the Friend Zone and he wants more treat him like a friend or cut him off completely. Don't use him as boyfriend that you're not having sex with.

    • Top5DOA

      Women will even put you in the FZ and get PISSED when you mess with other women.

      Mhmmmmmm

      Men: if you get put in the Friend Zone and you want more or even just to sleep with her you have two choices. Become that friend or leave her alone. When I say become that friend I mean treat her no different than you would your homeboys.

      Women: If you put a man in the Friend Zone and he wants more treat him like a friend or cut him off completely. Don't use him as boyfriend that you're not having sex with.

      ALL. OF. THIS.

    • SYJ

      He is on point. Have def experienced jealosy on part of "friends" of the opposite sex who supposedly dont care what you do on that front. Women want your time and attention- even if they claim to be cool being just friends. The females claiming they establish ZERO interest from the door and then invite the guys to leave if they dont like it are full of it. They want those guys around, especially if they dont have a Mr Right around keeping them warm at night at that particualr time.

      • MikeSupreme84

        That is exactly right because those women who exploit the situation of friend zoning these guys definitely want the attention and basically to have their cake and eat it too…Especially when they want a shoulder to cry on to talk about how the last man who treated her like shit. Bottom line its really some greedy ass fake bullshit that needs to be called out for what it is.

  • Hugh Jazz

    I posted this before, but this is exactly what the friend zone is like. Women are selfish for putting men there. Men are stupid for staying there.
    http://www.theonion.com/articles/but-if-we-starte

    • Humble_One

      "Women are selfish for putting men there. Men are stupid for staying there. "

      Basically. This sums it up totally. What's worse is that I see men in their 30's still getting put in the Friend Zone.

      • Just Me

        Yeah by your 30's every man should have enough back bone to say Peace…good luck. And also to know when the friend zone is happening when or before it even happens. Experience.

  • Mr. SD

    Maybe the "good guys" are just not attractive, and that friend zones them?!

    I think you end up in the friend zone because you're missing that quality that makes you that dude..

    • GirlSixx

      Both of these sentences are actually correct.

      Looks/Charm/Characteristics/Charisma/Personality/Attitude/Style are just some of the things that women can look at, that will cause her to friend zone a man if it's not up to her liking.

      • Mr. SD

        I can recall this chick in the 7th grade friend zoning me..and she had every right..I was a lame..lol But from that day forth I promised myself to never be placed there…..how did I accomplish that you ask??

        I simply stopped giving a phuck, and women adored it!..lol

        • Just Me

          Strangely, the most fucked up thing I've learned in all my dating life is that you have to balance showing how much you care vs how much you actually care. Women never respected it when I was everything they wanted. Now I'm not making this up…and women don't seem to be able to see it for themselves..but its true. You CANNOT treat a woman good all the time, you CANNOT give them everything they want. They get bored of it, they get over it they lose respect for you and treat you badly…for treating them so good. Once you're in that place though you're not allowed to act any differently because in all my experiences the woman then expects you to be that good guy even though she doesn't really like it that you are. It's the Kobiashi Maru and not fair.

      • Top5DOA

        Idk … Most of it comes down to a woman being SUPER picky. Dude can have all these things, but he's not on the football team, so automatically he's not exceptional enough. I understand people having standards, but OBVIOUSLY nobody's perfect. The "other guy" isn't perfect cuz ur complaining to the friend zoned about him and the friend in the friend zone isn't perfect cuz he has everything except the X-Factor, which i think it ultimately boils down to (granted he's not ugly).

        • Mr. SD

          You see Top5 this is where me not giving a phuck kicks in..the chicks that don't dig me – eff them!

          Why waste time on a chick that's picky and is not feeling you. Friends Zone??? eff outta her ma-ma!!..lol It comes down to confidence if you ask me..I know me and my worth..if miss picky aint feeling me its cool..some other chick will…WE OUTNUMBER THEM!..LOL

        • Top5DOA

          Yeah, i recently met a chick that tried to friend zone me … I later found out that she friend zones alot of guys. Her best friends is a guy for goodness sake.

          Basically, we hung out once and everything was coo .. Afterwards i was like hey i should come to your town to catch a MLB game cuz i've never been to one. She was like coo i've never been to one either … I had an available weekend to go out there , but the baseball team wasn't playing … so i was like "it's coo i'll come anyways and we can do something else" … she was like ummmm "how bout we just wait for an available game" … I said "Don't worry about it" … Friend Zone Awareness is 100. No No No … not me.

        • Just Me

          Respect. :) Nice job man.

        • GirlSixx

          "I know me and my worth..if miss picky aint feeling me its cool..some other chick will"

          BINGO!!

        • GirlSixx

          @Top5

          Nah, it's not about being SUPER PICKY (remember women settle more often than not) it's just that she doesn't see you as "That Dude" for whateva reason, and you're right NOBODY is perfect but whatever she's looking for at that time obviously the FZ man ain't got it.

        • Mr. SD

          "but whatever she's looking for at that time obviously the FZ man ain't got it"..this effects our ego and is the reason why we get tight abt it..lol

        • cynicaloptmst81

          1000 likes for this!!!!!

        • Top5DOA

          Yeah, The X-Factor i mentioned. A woman may settle from an overall standpoint, but that guy she settled for more than likely had that X-Factor that she was looking for and FZ man didn't have.

          it's called "Missing the Forest for the Trees".

    • Humble_One

      "Maybe the "good guys" are just not attractive, and that friend zones them?! "

      This is true. They have to wait until their mid to 20s and older. Then the guys that were friend zoned become

      1. the guys that women say are "immature" and scared to commit
      2. the guy she wants to settle down with now that she fell off
      3. the @sshole that she chased after but no longer likes

      • Mr. SD

        You hit the nail on the head Humble (no skittles)…I seen that same chick that tried to friends zone me in the 7th grade one day..while driving in passing, she looked horrific! I was like daaaaamn (Chris Tucker voice)….and might I add she was pushing a old ass Honda and I was flying by in my Infiniti M like "you still wanna be friends now??"..lol

        • GirlSixx

          That lil 7th grader really got to you huh? :)

          j/k

        • Mr. SD

          That broad pissed me off..lol i really liked her.. I was young and clueless tho, I thought if you be nice (lame) you get the girl..WRONG..lol

          The asshole will always win!

        • http://justlissen.wordpress.com justlissen

          no dont say that! NO… be nice. I hope a nice one comes your way, and you're nice back. Yes I'm optimistic of this fact *fingers crossed*

          My grandmother used to day: "don't make the next one pay for the mistakes of the last one." I hope you take that to heart. I know I do!
          My recent post Fool for you

        • MikeSupreme84

          Its an everyday struggle to remain optimistic when you've dealt with the bs of being overlooked and friend zoned. It does seem that the asshole wins and the woman loves to be treated but im not going to sacrifice my self worth and self respect to become something that im not. Im a nice guy with heart but I also have a backbone and self respect. It just makes me sick seeing the same recurring bs when it comes to things like that.

  • krystllyght

    I think I was friend zoned back in junior high. I didn't know that's what it was back then but all's well that ends well.

  • http://www.twitter.com/keety3986 prettykeety

    Don't guys friend-zone themselves though?

    I don't recall ever begging & pleading with a guy to keep hanging with me after I've expressed my romantic disinterest in him. If anything, he friend-zoned himself by hanging on, waiting for his opportunity, thinking he can change my mind.

    • Hugh Jazz

      "If anything, he friend-zoned himself by hanging on, waiting for his opportunity, thinking he can change my mind."

      That's the point. Just as a woman "friend-(with-benefits)-zones (her)self by hanging on, waiting for (her) opportunity, thinking (she) can change (his) mind."

      People need to move on if they aren't getting what they want. If not, to paraphrase Big Daddy Kane, they can put a quarter in their a$$, because they are playing themselves.

      • JanieCrawford

        Yes! At the end of the day, we can only control ourselves!

    • Top5DOA

      It's usually not that cut and dry … The woman sees him as a nice guy, so instead of bluntly saying i'm not interested at all, she downplays his advances, while still wanting him to be around. This gives him the idea that maybe now isn't the time, but eventually she'll come around (sounds familiar, eh?). If she said look i'm not interested for these reasons, that's not friend zoning … that's rejection.

  • Jupiter Calhoun

    There really needs to be a new name for the "Friend Zone". It's such a misnomer. If someone looks at you and decides they can take companionship, emotional support, time, etc. from you without reciprocating, they're not really a friend.

    And yeah, men can put women in "that area" too.I know this because I’ve done it before, and I’m not proud of it. Not at all. It was more or less intentional. I knew this girl had a crush on me, and I would hang out with her and encourage her affection, while only being friendly. I would do little things to tease her and keep her interested, but there was never a hint of anything more from me. I mentioned my girlfriend at the time, and she still hung around. After breaking up with said girlfriend, I mentioned difficulty with other women that weren’t her. It was at that point that I stopped hearing from her. No Facebook pokes. No phone calls or texts. Basically, she did what I would’ve done, and I have nothing but respect for her doing it.

    I know this because I’ve done it before, and I’m not proud of it. Not at all. It was more or less intentional. I knew this girl had a crush on me, and I would hang out with her and encourage her affection, while only being friendly. I would do little things to tease her and keep her interested, but there was never a hint of anything more from me. I mentioned my girlfriend at the time, and she still hung around. After breaking up with said girlfriend, I mentioned difficulty with other women that weren’t her. It was at that point that I stopped hearing from her. No Facebook pokes. No phone calls or texts. Basically, she did what I would’ve done, and I have nothing but respect for her doing it.

    I’ve taken that approach whenever I was getting looked at as “only a friend”. If I get that vibe, all of a sudden, I become profoundly unavailable. If asked to go out to eat, I say I have to go get a haircut. (I shave my head, so….) I don’t feel bad about doing it.

    • Jupiter Calhoun

      OH! How did that come through twice?

    • tat

      without reciprocating is the key word.
      How on earth is it a fair reciprocation if a woman expects emotional support and a man expects sex? Thats not equal reciprocation AT ALL.
      By your own definition you cannot say that a girl who is there for a guy emotionally is "friend zoning" a guy who is there for her emotionally, because there is an EQUAL reciprocation going on in that instance. Ironically, guys who are friend zoned dont complain that the girl isnt there for them when he needs to talk or isnt available to hang out when he needs a friend…they complain that the girl isnt FUCKING them. they are expecting something completely unrelated to what they are giving.

      i personally would KILL for a few friends. and would welcome ANYONE to "friend zone" me because i desperate just want people i can talk to/

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jermaine-spradley/a-millennial-manifesto-jobs_b_956053.html Most

    There's nothing wrong with being put in the friend zone so long as you haven't put all your eggs in her basket (weird place for this metaphor but just roll with it). If you're actively talking to, kicking it with, and smashing other chicks, having one or two or three women put you in the friend zone for whatever reason ain't so bad. It's actually a good spot to sit back, chill and truly get to know what a woman is about before deciding whether or not you want to take the relationship to another level. Then, when you decide you want to take that next step, getting out of the friend zone is pretty easy.

    First, ramp up your communication with shorty, but change the nature of it. So, call her more often for a few weeks but don't talk about your love lives, don't entertain conversations about other dudes or anything like that. Just be funny, charming and deep here and there. Take her out a couple times, be a gentleman. Plan the whole situations, make her feel like a lady. After about two weeks of that, abruptly fall off the face of the earth. Stay away for like a month or so, return phone calls and texts late – don't be rude, but maybe be a little curt. Eventually she'll start inquiring about why you've changed. That's when you hit her with the "we can't be friends conversation." Make her make a choice. You might win, you might lose, but at least you'll be out of the friend zone. I know it sounds like I'm advising you to "play games" but that's not what this is. It's about dressing for the job you want, not the job you have. Dress for the job of her man for two weeks to a month, and if you don't get the offer – move on.

    Oh, and let me state for the record – one should only do this if you've found a woman you're ready to commit to. This isn't for creating a casual relationship. This is what you do when you're stuck in the friend zone of a woman who might be your future wife.

    My recent post The Millennial Manifesto: How 80′s Babies Can Save the World

    • Top5DOA

      Solid playbook.

    • chunk

      If you friendzoned a gurl, would this work on you?
      My recent post The First Real Date

      • cynicaloptmst81

        It works on them just fine. We touched on this a few posts ago…the SBM mailbox post. When you dip, sometimes they chase you…sometimes they don't. If they don't, you needed to know how little they cared so that you can move on anyway. Its a win/win…

      • Top5DOA

        For guys, it's best to substitute "a pursued relationship" for the "Friend zone".

        So it could work!!

    • Camille

      I really appreciate your perspective. I found this blog this past Saturday and now I'm addicted and must read it everyday. It's quite refreshing. West Coast men could learn a lot from you East Coast brothers.

      Camille

  • SYJ

    Many of the females are full of you know what. This notion that women always know what they want from the beginning and have their “type” perfectly pegged is nonsense. In addition, this idea that women can hang around ANY straight guy regardless of his looks or charms just because they are interested in being friends is garbage. Get real people. Both genders pay attention to what people of the opposite sex looks like and people are much more likely to spend time with people they find SOMEWHAT attractive than not attractive at all. The reality is that if a woman (or girl, this stuff starts with teens) thinks a guy is a total nut she Is NOT going to spend time with him. Period. This nonsens women are spewing on here about laying down rules up front and establishing early on that there is ZERO attraction is ridiculous. Any man that’s paying attention can tell if a female is feeling his sense of humor and swag- and yes you notice this even with “platonic” female friends. When women say they can’t take a friendship to the next level its often because they have their eye on something “better” but they would still like to maintain the safety and comfort of this good male “friend” while they pursue the flawed man they have “chemistry” with. You need “chemistry” to maintain a good friendship. People use that term in connection with roomantic relationships, but you can’t stay friends for years and enjoy the company of someone without “chemistry”. So the women claiming that they ignore their male friends due to lack of “chemistry” are being disingenous. What they really mean is that those male friends represent easy conquests and/or they envisioned themselves meeting Mr. Right in a much more Hollywood type of fashion. See, many women have a preconceived fantasy about how they are supposed to meet the guy they will be with and the idea of accidentally meeting that man and starting out as friends doesn’t fit the bill.

    Look at FB and the popularity of people looking for old flames or friends of the opposite sex from back in the day. Folks want to see how people they havent seen in years (but used to be close to) are doing in life- especially if they arent satisfied with their own lives. I think many women go on FB to see how these “nice guys” from back in the day are doing because they have fond memories of some of the guys they ignored and they kind of wonder what would’ve happened if they had seen them in a different light.

    One day (or not) women will get over the idea that the men they are most overtly attracted to and the ones who seem vibe with them physically from Day One are the guys for them. You can be attracted to a lot of different people. You can have good physical relations with a lot of different people. You can be turned on by the mere sight of various people. None of those things means that those people are right for you. Guys can have good conversation with and very stimulated by strippers- doesn’t mean those girls are relationship material. Women believe that there should be some sort of instant connection or sexual vibe with a guy in order for that guy to be worthy of a relationship. Women may lust after (or be turned out by) many a guy- but none of that proves that said guy is “the one” or “her type” or any such thing. The fact that women cant wrap their heads around this is one reason why we have so many failed relationships and baby mamas in our culture. Sense men are usually accused of thinking with their you know what instead of their heads you would think men would be the ones chasing women based on looks and body shape and then thinking the women who check those boxes are right for them. Its exactly the opposite in many cases, guys dont usually equate strong attraction/high levels of sexual tension with total compatibility from a relationship front.

    • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

      Knowledge God.

  • SYJ

    PS:

    I'd love to know how many of these women who are experts in screening men and using exacting standards to select the ones who are up to their compatibility standards have a good man right NOW. My experience has been that in many cases the women who come up with an exhaustive list of disqualifiers for one or more male friends they have end up perpetually single or settling for a guy who INITIALLY seemed superior (mostly based on the attraction/physical chemistry established early) but later turned out to have serious flaws. We need to know the track record of those who claim women are good at correctly picking the right guy after years of ignoring or dismissing or rejecting cool guys they had as friends.

  • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

    I'm shaking my head and laughing about women talking about guys are going around smashing every other woman when they're in a friend zone.

    Here is the subtle difference between men and women: Women believe men that they don't find attractive are non-existent. Men ignore the women they don't find attractive.

  • http://48forpanache.blogspot.com 48.

    Sigh* I'm really late on this one. After reading the post(awesome job wim – and that graph, did you make that?) and the comments, I realized that I've never friend-zoned anyone – even though I am friends with a number of guys who initially approached me from a non-platonic angle. 2 reasons: I know myself well enough to the point that when I make decisions about these things, they're usually pretty decisive and final. hence the concept of benching someone for a later date or wearing me down seldom applies. Secondly, I'm pretty (un)selfish(selfless sounds too saintly:D) so while I make whatever decision is best for me, I also take the other person's welfare into consideration; it's the same reason settling isnt an option. I really believe that everyone deserves someone who's [bat shit crazy/head over heels/mad] about them and if that's not me then i need to let you go. Like Cynical Optimist said, I usually just fall wayyyy back.

    My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

    • http://48forpanache.blogspot.com 48.

      From my perspective wanting to remain friends(real friendship now, not fz) with a guy even though we're romantically incompatible is more of a compliment than punishment. I dont get the urge to become friends with every guy who approaches me, just the truly good/great ones. At the same time, I'll respect their decision if they'd rather not remain friends – I know I've had to stay away from someone like that for the sake of my sanity/emotional health.
      My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

      • Just Me

        YEah but the friend zone isn't filled with a bunch of dudes that are stoked because the girl they wanna be with is complimenting them by even considering being your friend instead of making you invisible.

        As a guy, I find it insulting that a woman I'm approaching with a romantic offer would respond with an offer of friendship. I have a both male and female friends. Of my female friends, I have not ever wanted to be with them and vice versa. Think about it, you can't begin a friendship with rejection. And forgive the sting here ladies but you're the only ones around that think you can.

  • MissMe

    Everyone just needs to take responsibilty for their own happiness or stupidity alike…If someone tells you 'Nah, i'm not feeling you like that'. umm move the hell on.

    What's this about men being friend zoned??? Ain't nobody friend zone you…you stayed!! Kinda like the dumb woman that stays when a man tells her 'i don't want a serious relationship' [like has been said 101 times already]

    And about women not choosing right/or not currently having a 'good man'… how is that your issue tho'?? Point is that she didn't want YOU!! let her wallow in her foolish choice.

    I don't feel the need [especially in the last few years] to have new male friends. If I tell you 'Nah it ain't gon happen' and you insist you wanna hang around…you'll eventually move on cos i won't be readily available BUT a woman that chooses to hang out and enjoy all the perks and benefits shouldn't be blamed for it…

  • http://www.daddyshangout.com Travis

    HAHA! Great post and so damn true!
    My recent post 10 holiday planning tips for men that keep the wife happy!

  • ooh ok..

    All I gotta say is the ONLY male friends I got voluntarily put themselves in that place. Mayb their waiting for the booty call or mayb not! I just understand the idea that a guy just wants to hit it (4the most part). I don't care and thats why I stopped taking applications…happy cuffing ppl! :)

  • larnelw

    "…Telling a man who likes you as more than a friend that you see him as “just a friend” is the most offensive thing you can say to him next to “I’ve had better” or asking “Is it in, yet?”

    The “I only see you as a friend” statement is to men what “I’m not looking for a serious relationship” is to women. What both statements are really saying is, “I’m sorry, you are not qualified to fill this open position. Thank you for interviewing. Would you like to work in this unpaid, non-benefit internship instead?”."

    That right there might just be the realest opening argument I've ever read. Talking about hitting the nail square on the head

  • Pingback: the rebuttal: good women vs good men and the friend zone « fourpageletter

  • Breebree

    Wisdom,

    Great post. However there are some key things you should be mindful of with regard to the “friend zone” situations.

    Maybe not you personally, but honestly most of the time men are in the “friend zone” because they haven’t communicated that they wanted to be anything beyond that. I’m sure you as a man know that it is very difficult for many men to be upfront about their romantic interest in a woman. Some men feel intimidated and lest we not forget about the “male ego” that he will do his damnest protect at all times.

    I think one very common reason men are in the “friend zone” is simply due to lack of effective open honest communication.

    Now if you are talking about after the fact, where the man has expressed to the woman very clearly that he wants more than a friendship from her and she gives him the “your just a friend” line then in that case there is a positive to that as well.

    I have put several men in the friend zone in my dating lifetime which is over 10 years since the age of 17. In the beginning it was nothing to do with them or my attraction to them or lack thereof. I did not want a serious relationship and didn’t want to be married at all before I was 27. I had my reasons but unlike most every other woman I didn’t want to be married and have kids at all to any man in my early twenties, hence great guys put in the friend zone.

    I have also put men in the friend zone because I wasn’t attracted to them. Be it because I wasn’t physically attracted to them or because they bored me and weren’t exciting, sexy and charming enough to hold my attention and keep my interest.

    Granted your right it isn’t the most mature thinking to choose a mate for such superficial reasons (though men do it all the time then wonder cluelessly why their relationship and marriages fail later on).

    But think about this Misery, would you want to be with a woman who didn’t want you and wasn’t attracted to you? If so why on earth would you want to be with a woman who didn’t want you and desire you the way you wanted and desired her?

    I’ve seen it, experienced it and learned from it and what this can create when you are with a woman who you want waaaaaay more than she wants you is a situation where you will potentially be used, and taken for granted and not loved or liked for the right reasons. Is that the kind of relationship you really want? No matter how much you may like, love, care for and be attracted to the woman……would you really be happy with her for very long?

    So in essence think of it like this, every single woman who puts a man in the “friend zone” has done him a huge favor because she has kept him from wasting his valuable precious time pursuing her and his love and kindness being taken advantage of and kept him from wasting his money on a woman who really didn’t want or appreciate him and the things he did for her.

    So if anything fella’s you should be thanking those women as you walk away and move on…and remember one persons trash is another one’s treasure. So for every woman who doesn’t want you there are plenty that do. *smile*

    • Robin

      wow thank you for saying a lot of things i wanted to say in reply to this post!

  • http://[email protected] Caesar31

    This article will be posted and spread like a gospel. The point of a man having a set # of friends is right on point. When a woman attempts the friend zone I see weakness in the sense of just saying what it really is, your not on it. I found some hissing when I stated women are content with male “friendships” oh that’s just my friend or coworker. Its almost similar to the shoe collecting pattern…

  • http://twitter.com/BlackAmericaU @BlackAmericaU

    This post earned you a new fan, follower, all that ish. I got alot of reading to do round here!

    Asad (http://unitedblackamerica.com)
    My recent post The inverse of SAGGIN is?…#consciousculturefriday

  • http://twitter.com/kalistetics @kalistetics

    Can I just say I love reading these blogs?!

    I'm not good with putting men in the friend zone so I rarely do. If you're in my friend zone, you started off as a friend in the first place, so I don't waste anyone's time by "putting" men in my friend zone. Not to mention, like WIM said, I don't need new friends. But I know from my experience that men who I tried to "just be friends" with were just quietly waiting for their opportunity to be more than friends. I personally don't want to be bothered with that headache, so now I just nip it in the bud….

    Conclusion: If you step to me and I'm not feeling you like that, I simply and politely let them know that they need not apply here. Most men respect my honesty and no damage is done. And for those that don't respect it, they weren't men to begin with and confirms my decision to pass.

    • http://twitter.com/irish_koffee @irish_koffee

      actually, while the case may (I hesitate to say that because your guys might be just not telling you the whole story) be so with you, if these self-entitled, sociopathic, and all around shallow comments prove anything, it is that boys and men do NOT respect your honesty. the damage is done because you have refused to let them have sex with you. they resent and hate you for it. they were nice to you and didn't call you names- you OWE them sex.

      • Adonis

        LOL

  • BlackPhysicist

    After much debate and scrutinization I have finally deconstructed the anatomy of the much-dreaded "FriendZone" (written by a 16 year old by the way). From my close speculation and analysis of girl's that have friendzoned me I have noticed several patterns leading to why I was put there in the first place. The first, in most scenarios is because I come off as too available to the female. I can be the guy she can text at 3AM or some ungodly hour (most times drunk or plagued by insomnia) to discuss whatever runs across her mind. Nevermind that I was probably in the middle of an awesome dream or have school in the morning….

    If you do not establish a back-bone early on you communicate to her that you are her re-usable stress pillow, ready and willing to accept all her problems and shortcomings as your own. As much as I'd like to say I did I had no game throughout middle and highschool (middle school even moreso) I was the kind of bookish guy you'd see with his shirt buttoned to the tippy top with wireframe glasses. My confidence meter at this point of my life was at 0-0.01, but when I got in highschool I wanted to change my look not as an attractor to girls but for my own ego. When my confidence boosted I learned I wasn't as touchy when it came to females. I wouldn't sweat as much when she didn't text back for like 5 hours or something along those lines.

    On the reverse side, I don't believe I've ever put any girls in the friend zone due to the fact I had the garnering of little to no female attention to begin with, not so say that I was desperate but if she was mildly pleasant and easy on the eyes then why waste good meat (sorry if that sounds wrong).

    In conclusion, the friend-zone stems from a lack of the 2 C's: Confidence and Communication. They coincide with each other like clockwork (love the repition of C words here) if you are not CONFIDENT enough to COMMUNICATE your feelings, you will be overlooked. That simple

    Cheers

  • dave

    Isn’t “female friend ” an oxymoron?

  • Luke

    heres how to avoid the friend zone:
    girl says "I only want to just be friends"
    you say, "well you're a fucking stupid goddamn cunt and I hope you burn in the fiery pits of hell for all eternity! *3-sec dramatic pause* want to be friends now bitch!?"
    girl, hopefully, cries and you 2 never talk again

    • http://twitter.com/irish_koffee @irish_koffee

      BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

      The bitter, self-entitled, sex-demanding 16 year old Nice Guy rears his ugly head once more!

      By all means, child, go tell a girl that after she rejects your creepy, selfish, twisted arse. to her face, not like a big brave bad-A to your computer screen.

  • tat

    im a girl who often gets put in the "fuck buddy zone" and i wish WISH WISH WISH so badly that i would be friend zoned instead.
    yeah maybe being friend zoned is a kick to your ego
    but being fuck buddy zoned is a real kick to my…well…entire being. Your graph clearly demonstrates what I have for so long feared- that guys do not enjoy my company and think my personality is wretched and dont see me as pretty enough to really consider a long term relationship.

    at least when you are friend zoned you know the other person LIKES YOU as a HUMAN BEING and GENUINLY ENJOYS YOUR COMPANY. when you're fuck buddy zoned you wonder if youre even worth anything at all. It's pretty devastating.

  • tat

    and if you wonder why i think that being friend zoned is better than being fuck buddy zoned or often even "dating zoned"
    think back to the friends you had 5 years ago. how many are still people you keep in touch with? Probably almost all of them
    now think back to girls you dated 5 years ago. how many of them still keep in touch with you? Probably NONE.

    friends> always better than automatic lovers
    and the best lovers ALWAYS ALWAYS start out as friends and CONTINUE being friends even if the relationship ends. it took me a while to figure this out, but now that i know it i know why all my relationships have failed.

  • http://youreratchet.blogspot.com Young Heaux

    Dr. Jay made a great comment above about women putting dudes in the friend zone for lack of male friends. I definitely value my male platonic relationships, and don't want to complicate them by having sex if you're really great and we have the potential to be great friends.

    Second thing I want to say is, I've put a guy in the friend zone because even though I was attracted to him, I didn't trust him because I felt like, what'll happen when I let dude smash? I liked him; enough that even though I was really attracted to him, I wanted to keep him in my life as a friend, instead of casting him aside completely. And it took several months of "talking" to realize that I just wanted to keep it PG. It's not that I was stringing him along the whole time, it's just that I learned that that's all it could be after getting to know him.

    Being friends with someone, you hear them talk about theirrrrr past relationships with women, and in this scenario, I knew I didn't want to be one of the other chicks he didn't care about. So if you're really in the friend zone, ask yourself, am I really that "good"? And if so, have I potentially communicated otherwise to her? Every girl (person) is different; know that girl's desires and motivations, and you will understand why ish ain't poppin off.

  • SweetSass

    No such thing as the friend zone. There is only, the not attracted to you zone. Heterosexual men are not good judges of what women are attracted, they have a long list of what we 'ought to be' attracted to. Same with women. That is well established. There is girl 'hot' and guy 'hot.' Same with guys, there are men who don't see how their friends are losers, fat, ugly, insecure, commitment phobes, stupid, boring, broke, or mama's boys, etc. and thus are not the 'catches' they think. They are inherently biased towards themselves and their circle of dudes.

    Just like a man is not going to be turning down free poon; a woman would be a dummy if she wasn't keeping around someone willing to change tires for free or pick up at the airport. It's on the person getting used to opt out of the situation that doesn't satisfy them.

    I don't put out for a guy without that commitment. You shouldn't be rushing to give material comfort or shoulders to a woman who ain't yours. Really simple.

  • Ren

    if you were such a good or nice guy (or girl) you would respect the person's wishes. not try and guilt them into being with you by hanging around and bending over backward's to please them. that's a mental abuse/manipulation game that never turns out right, because once you get it, you lose interest. the chase is over i have been there and i listen to my instincts they have never failed me once and been burned enough giving "good" guys a chance only ending up with black eyes once the lust is gone. . Guys and Girls deal with it, not everyone is going to be interested in what they are not attracted to, takes the WHOLE package , not bits and pieces. you could be The most handsome or the most beautiful person out there , if you are not mentally attractive, you are going to be friend zones, or booty called zones. look at coolie , ugly, but his wife is gorgeous, she was not only mentally attracted to the man, but physically , his features attracted her, and their children are good looking too, from an ugly man came these pretty babies….every species on this earth does it, finds the best possible mate not only due to physical but mentally all comes down to the genes, if your genes are not attractive to me i aint spreading my legs to you nor sticking it in you. no matter how much you try to guilt trip me and if you wait till i am vulnerable yea you really aint a nice or good guy /gal you just a shark waiting to eat its pray, . people like that are better left strangers. they aint right in the head.

  • dkjfsdgfg

    wow, like how dare she not want to go out with you? It's not like she has a RIGHT to like someone as a friend or anything!

    PS. The analogy with the shoes is stupid, because in REAL LIFE, you don't have an inheret right to demand the girls affections, but you have the right to demand the proper shoes. If a girl that you didn't like had a crush on you, you'd say "no thanks." Why is it so horrid if a girl does it?

    • http://twitter.com/irish_koffee @irish_koffee

      wow, someone HAS SENSE! This place was honestly freaking me out with how many men here truly think they are owed sex just for emotional dishonesty and being two-faced, fake friends with women just to score with them. but the fact that so many naive women (who probably just want to suck up to the guys) are agreeing with brings this to a whole new level of creepy. Don't drink the koolaid, girls! You have a RIGHT to date who you want. You are not a toy and do not owe any man sex or a relationship.

  • hdaskldh

    single for seven years, eight times i've been friendzoned. Five out of eight, I've been improperly rejected. I look back all those instances where I was being myself, and try to be the person whom they are attracted to, or try not to think all those things, the things that I have to convince myself that life goes on, but everyday when I look at woman, whether she's hot or not, I can't properly speak to her. It's like there's a wall that says I will never be good enough. It sucks, not it's hell, trapped in a limbo. Look I don't want consolation or sympathy, but every now and then I hear women talking about how guys are dicks and assholes, please guys like me, who at least know some decency or at least were raised by good mothers, do exist. This thing you call a friend-zone only assures, not just our extinction, but my extinction as well.

  • LaDarius Clark

    Put it like this, if you throw your line out in the water and the fish isn't taking the bait as a keeper then reel it in and try a different fish. The moral of this story is that eventually you will get someone,

  • http://twitter.com/irish_koffee @irish_koffee

    The entitled, two-faced, manipulative sociopaths here in a nutshell:
    http://mightygodking.com/2007/12/16/the-internet-

  • BlackScottishChic

    This was a very well thought out essay and the basic framework is true. I have guys in the friendzone and I have been put in a friendzone by one guy. The truth is, both scenarios -you know, he knows, we know – that something is just not quite right. It takes maturity to accept the reality and welcome a friend. One guy confessed his feelings toward me and it was awkward initially. I validated his feelings, did not make him feel bad. As for me, I went out with a guy that I had met over a chatboard for b-school applicants and I realized I wasn't attracted to me physically. I accepted that reality and decided he is someone I'd like as a friend to bounce ideas off of and even to get dating advice regarding other guys. The key is accepting the truth and behaving accordingly – friends don't sleep together. We don't stir the pot and manipulate the situation. No one likes rejection but when done respectfully you can be a friend in the zone.

  • thetruthhurts

    I'm currently in the friend zone with this one girl. She actually asked me out first, showed a lot of interest, and whatnot but somehow down the road things switched. I think it's due to the fact that she dates a LOT of guys and she doesn't know what she wants. She says one thing, but we all know women say something and mean the opposite. What I think her deal is, is that she wants to be single and date hella guys, but she puts her expectations so high that not even the best guy could match them. Then she gets to say "oh I'm trying" and not look like a slut, but in reality she just wants to date around. Either way, I decided that if she's going to put me in the friend zone I'm going to be all the way up in that bitch. Talking to her everyday, hanging out, all that shit. I'll be that friend zone guy, but if you're paying attention all the good guys actually do have their day. At one time, even Barack Obama was rejected by Michelle and other women. Look at him now. At one time even Denzel got rejected. Look at how he turned out. Most women would think you're a damn fool if you rejected a guy like Denzel, or Obama. So, good guys do have their day and time. I'm going to make sure any girl who puts me in the friend zone sees me when that time comes around.

  • Robin

    this post does have some very good points, but completely neglects the part about how the woman feels. just because a guy likes a girl, she is suddenly obligated to reciprocate his feelings? no! a woman can't change how she feels about you just because you want her too, nor should she be expected to. you make it sound like it's entirely the girl's fault and girls are horrible people for not doing what the guys want, but that is so misogynistic i don't even want to think that you believe it. maybe when you get "friendzoned" it's because the girl genuinely likes you as a person and values your friendship and there is no point in allowing that to become a relationship when she doesn't have romantic feelings toward you. it's not an insult guys. it's not a punishment. if you're actually a nice guy then you'll realize that friendship is a reward in itself and you're not entitled to a romantic relationship just because you're friends with someone.
    i know that girls are jerks sometimes, but guys are jerks just as often. don't pin problems created by your own behaviour on us. having experienced my best friend indicate romantic interest i can tell you that it's not fun. i don't want to hurt his feelings by rejecting him, but wouldn't it be worse in the long run to do the opposite when i don't have feelings for him in that way? don't my feelings count as well?

    also the blatant generalization that all girls have bad taste in men–excuse me but who gave you the the right to make judgments on the entire female population?