The Truth About New York: How Big City Dating “Corrupts” Single Men

  • Share on Tumblr

What? This is easy!

I was chatting with a friend of mine — we’ll call her Tameka — about her dating adventures in New York City. She’s a good person that takes care of her appearance and knows how to converse. But she regularly runs into an issue that my other female friends in NYC run into: Men that fall off the map when they find out they’ll need to put in effort.

I was trying to explain to her why men in the Big Apple approach dating so lax, then started thinking about my experience as a single black male that’s lived in two northeastern hubs. It was when I drew that comparison that I realized I used to be just like the men she comes across today. I tried to soften the message, but there was no way of getting around a truth that many men take advantage of.

Women make it easy for single black men in big cities like New York. I can tell you this because I spent five years living in Boston, a much smaller city,where I had to claw and wit my way to a phone number and a first date. It required actual work. The pickings were slimmer (no pun). And the women that were available flaunted advanced degrees, confidence, and an exceptionally high self-worth. Boston forced me to question a lot about my approach to chicks and, at times, even my looks. The women there were interested in whatever they perceived to be the best of the best. It took more than a fresh shave and an edge up to show you wanted something that lasted longer than a night.

I had to step my game up if I wanted to have a second, third, or forth conversation with a woman that peaked my interest. The margin for error was low. The cost of poor follow-through was high.

Then I moved to New York and things changed. As soon as I arrived with a single status, six feet of height, and a complexion that didn’t scare white people in elevators, things got easier — MUCH easier. One night out in the city resulted in more interest and phone numbers than I’d gotten in my last three years living in Beantown.

It’s ironic. People think big city equals more people, which equals more opportunity, which can equal more competition. But as a man moving to New York, it meant less competition and the opening of doors — amongst others things — that I didn’t even know existed. I got phone numbers without asking. I met women that intentionally asked every question under the sun except the ones that mattered. And even if I lost the interest of one, there was always an easy second option even if it meant I had to go out the same night.

And with that, my attitude, approach, and “win” percentage changed inversely with the size of my apartment.  Losses became wins. Aesthetic 10s became deficient 6s. My doubts turned into entitlement. The question of “what do I need to do to get a good woman” turned into “is this all I have to do to get a good woman?” Working for it became simping. Calling became texting. Conversation with one became missed opportunity with the easier options — well, sometimes.

It got to a point that I decided if I wanted something serious, I’d look out of state. That’s where I’d find mystery, intrigue, and something I had to work for. In the mean time, why would I buy the proverbial cow when I could get the whole farm for free? I’m not saying the attitude was right, but that’s how I thought.

New York wasn’t only the greatest city in the world, it was also the most toxic to my character. I got drunk on favorable ratios, aggressive women, and, at times, desperation. There were moments where it felt like the opposite sex had swapped their worth for the possibility of something that would never be. And though it may have bothered me in the back of my mind, I couldn’t help but to enjoy living a vacation in front of me.

It’s funny. Even today I hear women in NYC today talking about how there aren’t any “good” men out here. The thing is we’re here. We just don’t have to show up. Why would we? There’s too much free sex in the city. Maybe one day women will stop letting us write the script.

Do you think there’s a difference in the way men and women approach dating in big cities like New York? Are men lazier? Are women more aggressive? Is it the same in smaller cities? How about where you are today? Why do you think there are such significant differences? All other thoughts are welcome!

Challenge Us. Please,


  • Share on Tumblr

From Our Partners

  • http://jazgill.com Jaz Gill

    interesting observation. I was raised in a suburbs of South Jersey and I now work in NYC. Im fairly young (22) and I def see a difference in my peers in NYC vs. my peers down south. They are more gentleman like and willing to work for it. I must say I play up my suburban ways to the NYC guys and it works every time. It's a calm, semi southern demeanor that is rare in NYC. It works like a charm, but I refuse to take any man in NYC serious. There's something about them I just don't trust

    JG
    My recent post Blog

    • monique

      Im a southern girl, and I find that northern men have this perception that we are slow based on geography. I am not flattered when I am approached by them but moreso aware because they're more obvious to read than a southern man.

    • Gwen

      I agree – but South Jersey is not "the South"! lol

  • http://www.6monthsto30.wordpress.com chunk

    I also wanted to say that even if I don’t _like_ what I just read, lol, it is helpful for understanding my experiences in the area as they relate to dating and simple interaction with men around here. I appreciate the honesty even if I think the actions and reasons behind them are BS, lol.

    • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

      When I gave up trying to understand dude's perspective and cater to them even in the way I presented myself to them for their "approval" (eye roll), that's when I met a nice guy who respected MY perspective, and then we learned EACH OTHER's viewpoints together. Too many women are practically TRAINING to be men's "queen to be", groomed from adolescence and not taking THEMSELVES into account.

      • chunk

        I think you can try to understand another person's perspective without the intent of changing your behavior to suit their preferences.
        My recent post Paradigm Shift: I Will Not Be Silenced

        • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

          That may be true, but I didn't master that. I'm a people pleaser, and if I know what you like and put too much time RESEARCHING it, I begin to CATER to it, even unconsciously. That's not something strangers deserve from me.

        • Bree

          Exactly Kat……and the problem is that unfortunately when you give and give and give all folks do is take take take and only give you their azz to kiss.

      • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

        This right here. We need to start ignoring what men say they want need, prefer. Most of it is bullchips covering some fear or insecurity. The other part might be true, but who says they deserve to get it. Focus on what you want.

      • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84
      • monique

        love it!

  • J Dub

    Im a Blackl gay guy in a major city and the script is the same for us, too. Its the same for people of all walks of life. When we live in major cities with average looks – and let us not have an iota of something going for us – it makes it easier to be find one, move on, or be on to the next if its not perfect timing. There is a lot of opportunity, which makes for a lot of knocking on doors. When you live in smaller cities, you tend to realize that you dont have much room for error. Or, youll be waiting another few years to come across someone worthy – or hell, may even settle. Honestly, I dont think there's anything "wrong" with the situation. Perhaps, Ive been blessed to find and date very suitable peopple. Perhaps, Im always the "heartbreaker." Maybe those things are true. But I feel that no matter the case, youre going to find someone who is for you – and you all can work out the subtleties of what works and doesnt work for you. Someone who isnt willing or ready (emotionally or mentally) to go there with you isnt for you anywho.

    • jackson

      My best friend has just announced her wedding with a millionaire. They met via ) ==== cougarkissing_com ==== ( It's the best place to meet rich successful men & classy beautiful women. Our members include CEOs, pro athletes, doctors, lawyers, models, and celebrities….Maybe you can take a try.

  • http://Www.6monthsto30.wordpress.com chunk

    I’m going to say this is probably the case for the DMV, too.

    I’m excited to get away from big city living. I’m completely burned out of the mentality and abrasiveness. There are definitely more men available, but their arrogance is through the roof. And yes I think the women are more aggressive, too. But it kinda seems necessary in this area. I’m curious about the desperation… I see it, but I don’t know if I believe it’s regional.

    • reluctantsocialite

      "And yes I think the women are more aggressive, too."

      Yup… I feel like its the same way in Houston. I completely throws me off. I'm not used to having to approach men. In fact, I don't approach men. They don't really do that where I'm from. And I'm not going to ask for anybody's number, either.

      I've noticed that a lot of men in Houston don't approach you… they just stare at you. I guess thats supposed to be my que to come over and speak. Yeah… thats not going to happen.

      I love Houston for many reasons and I'm happy to have moved here. But I have to say that my dating life has actually suffered a bit. Its been an eye opening experience, for sure. I'm actually used to (and prefer) a more aggressive man.

      • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

        "I've noticed that a lot of men in Houston don't approach you… they just stare at you. I guess thats supposed to be my que to come over and speak. Yeah… thats not going to happen. "

        LOL! Too true. :)

        • chunk

          The thing is, you can't win for losing. I actually _will_ approach a man, and will even ask him out. But on my dating post earlier this week, men commented that that is too forward. It's like ummm…. ok, so we can either stand here all day staring at each other or somebody can say something. Cause if I get ghetto and ask you what you're looking at? that's gonna be a problem, too. LOL
          My recent post Paradigm Shift: I Will Not Be Silenced

        • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

          LOL. I don't approach because the one time I did and we met up at a club, dude thought I was one of those "progressive" women and just wanted a booty call. I was like, "No. I really was just asking you out on a DATE." He quickly went incognito, LOL. Good riddance.

        • reluctantsocialite

          Lol! Girl… lose/lose situation, huh?

      • http://youreratchet.blogspot.com Young Heaux

        Firstly, great article. But I agree with yall, I don't think it's just NYC. I live in Seattle, and I definitely see how single black men are "corrupted." They're practically treated like kings, getting pussy thrown at them. And even "good" guys, especially if they're in their early mid 20s, get…. distracted. It really is too easy.
        My recent post Awkward Black Intern

      • AtlantaChick

        Yep- I'm not about to approach a man. No way ain't gonna happen. (I Hope) So how is that working for me lol? maybe not too good. But I'd rather be the owner of a lonely heart than the owner of a broken heart. Look, relationships are going to be a little hard as it is. Men will lose interest QUICK. So, for me, it at least has to start off with the man REALLY wanting me, enough to approach me (with the confidence to boot) and chase me. Then and only then will I bite- that's the only way it even has a chance of working IMO. From an Atlanta chick.

    • Teflon Mom

      I agree Chunk – I'm in PG county, and generally DMV men can have….issues.

      • chunk

        And honey they can have 'em! But I think it will simply be more of the same when I get where I'm going though, unfortunately.
        My recent post Paradigm Shift: I Will Not Be Silenced

      • Bree

        I'm in Montgomery County Teflon and I agree….Ironically the men I dated from NY, Philly, and Jersey played a lot less games and to me were more commitment minded at the very least than these men in the DMV. The thing I hate is men will lie in your face, and go through this whole song and dance and tell you what you want to here just for sex……I'm like is it really that serious?

      • JLH

        Men in the "DMV" are a whole other breed. NONE of them are serious because women here have made it WAAAAAAAAAAAAY too easy to hit and run.

  • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

    Haha. Boston is a trip and New York is well New York.

  • daughterofomi

    Men are not ready to settle down because they are too many options? I think there are too many men for it to be impossible for All of them be in the bachelor stage. And out of all the men who DO want to commit none of them recognize what a great catch you are?
    It might seem like a woman's gone through ALL the men of the Tri State area after going through your circle, but go outside your circle. Stop hanging out at Cheers where everybody knows your name and you know their baby mamas and girlfriends. Meet new people. It's a big ass city but that doesn't mean every body takes advantage of it. And that is if you're really relationship minded. There's a lot of fronters out there claiming to be looking for love, but what do you know this is their umpteenth booty call. Delete their input into this so called crisis and the outlook is better.

    • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

      In response to the series of (rhetoricalish) questions. The majority men are not having as much sex as you think they are. The too many options thing is a actually a farce for men generally speaking. Most of us just are not seeking a long term relationship at this moment and don't care to fall in one. Men are generally more likely to talk about victories than losses in mixed company. Just like women are generally going to downplay their sexual endeavors.

      • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

        Thank you Malik for speaking the TRUTH! This business about guys getting as much poon as they can handle and then some is some pure grade A cow excrement. Simply a lie. Men, even attractive tall men with degrees, get turned down all day every day. Don’t believe the hype. Average men watch porn and pray for a chance to luck up on some panties. They might stare, or stand and wait for women to approach, but that is because they are SCARED of rejection and heard that women would do all the work. Never exercised their approach muscle, so its soft. Men love to talk about how easy it is. Might be easy for a season a few guys, but not for most and even for those few, they have a pile of rejection in their cry closet.

      • Bree

        Chuuuuch Malik! That's Real Talk right there…..

      • Corey

        Cosign on that one. For a guy that’s getting it in, a 25% hit rate is all star level. The average guy doesn’t see that many opportunities and the ones who do still have crappy percentages. It ain’t always as easy as some of us might make it look.

    • Bree

      I say women need to explore ALL there options in the various races and cultures of men and step "outside the box"

  • Jason A. Johnson

    I agree with this post entirely. Being originally from NY, there were beautiful women on almost every corner and on all forms of transportation. They were simple enough to talk to and get their number, while also open to the idea of just being "buddies". That being said…while I'm now in East Lansing, Michigan…the pickings for a good, moral, and educated woman are Very slim and the work they expect when you do find one….threw the roof. I tell my friends back in New York all the time about how good and easy they have it!!

    • Muze

      ha! do you go to Michigan State by any chance?

      i'm from michigan and moved to NY, and i am amazed at how the women are in NY. simply amazed. the conversations i have with men and women alike here indicate that women are the aggressors in this city, and it has inflated the NY man's ego out.of.control. lol
      My recent post two sweaty dollars

  • http://blackgirlmd.wordpress.com blackgirlmd

    i hear a lot of my male friends complaining about how hard it is to find a good woman, but i always tell them that i think its more reflective of the effort they're willing to put out, rather than what's out there. if they haven't found a woman, its cuz they're not ready to. just like it took WORK for you to get that job you've always wanted, its gonna take WORK to get that women you've always wanted.

    i just don't take things that personally as far as dating. i know how easily guys replace girls in their mind, especially when they're at that stage where they're more focused on their career and having fun than anything else. they just don't care lol. unfortunately you can't stop them from trying to get your number or talk you up, but i don't have a problem getting rid of them if they don't come correct. i just fall of the face of the earth… stop responding to texts, whatever. easier for everyone involved.

    at some point its going to become more of a priority to them, and they'll start behaving the way they know they ought to be behaving. maybe i'll still be single around at that time and we can kick it, maybe i won't. either way, i'm not stressing about it… its just not worth it.
    My recent post Cheers to the Frickin Wknd

    • Bree

      Cosign blackgirlmd…….I tell all my single male friend who lament about not being able to find a good woman the same thing. If your single as a man it's because you want to be…..not because you have to be.
      All men have to do is get back to Courting women and putting in more effort and following up and spending more quality time. Some of them just aren't doing that. They aren't doing sh** and wondering why nothing has changed. Sometimes even with a woman they really like and think is "Hott" if she is asking for too much and asking him to do too much he is out. Definitely some men have gotten very lazy when it comes to dating and relationships. Bottom line – they only want to do what they want to do…..no more, no less.

    • AtlantaChick

      I think the smart thing to remember here is something I heard some years back. When a man is ready to commit, he goes back through all the girls he previously dated to reconnect with that "one"

  • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

    New York City Rocks… And I have yet to take full advantage… So, there is my 2012 NY resolution…

    And in short… I believe that women collectively cannot solve their own problems… That being said, I have no problem on men capitalizing on it… But it sucks that quality healthy LTRs are hard to come by

    SSTTE

    • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

      This dude said quality healthy LTRs are hard to come by in one sentence, and in the prior one, said his resolution is to take advantage of the desperation of NYC women, LOL. SMDH. I hope you realize the issue there. :)

      • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

        I understand the reality & GRAVITY of the situation…

        I know that to find a sensible woman who treats people well & focus on the parts of life that matter is hard to find just walking around in the city…

        So smashing a gang of chicks is a consolation prize… But unlike alot of women, I am comfortable with the reality of the situation

        • monique

          I know that to find a sensible woman who treats people well & focus on the parts of life that matter is hard to find just walking around in the city…

          …Quality women are all around , but maybe its your presentation that makes them apprehesive about sharing your space.

        • 2mques

          There are a lot of quality women around if you're not trying to have sex with them. As a wise man once told me, until a woman is under pressure, you don't really know who she is. When a man is pressuring you into sex, that's when he really gets to see you for what you are. And a lot of women, will do anything not to be put under pressure, so they can hide the facade of who they really are until they get their commitment. These are the kind of women (the majority), who change after a ring is put on their finger.

          When you put pressure on women, more times than not, you see a drop in their quality, it's the reason why after sex, so many men leave, because they realized they overpaid for what they were trying to buy. That's why it's better to have low standards for every woman you meet, that way if she exceeds them, you're more likely to stay with her longer. I suggest you look at every woman you meet, and imagine her having a train ran on her by two men in KKK mask the day before. If you can vividly imagine and that, and still want to stay with a girl…that's wifey!

  • amilli23

    This is not just a black women problem, but a women problem. I read an article last year called "the price of sex is cheap" or something like that. Basically saying, men, all men, don't have to work that hard anymore. After I saw a white girl try to throw it and this guy basically played her, I realize this society has turned women into desperate piranhas. And we all want the same damn fish! SN: a woman's value in America has historically been related to her marital status. My New Year's "resolution" is eff your feelings. If I'm labeled crazy or unreasonable for calling men (and people in general) on their BS so be it…I'm exhausted by the game playing and I won't compete for mediocre helpings. Sorry, but I'm tired…eff your feelings.

    Good post!

    • J2dajones

      That is good you should call men out of bs if you are serious about finding one. You don’t have to be abrasive about it. Most men are on bullshit until we are challenged not to be. If we respond we like you if we disappear we just wanted 2 pop. Now if we dissappear and you chase and that happens alot it is on you

  • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

    Maybe one day women will stop letting us write the script.

    Too early. I'll be back later, bro.

    My recent post A Selfish Man

    • Jaz Gill

      *brow raised* ha! i don't know what kind of women you deal w/ BUT that's not the case over here. I mind f#ck them into thinking they have control to stoke their macho ego

    • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

      Funny my original comment got a thumbs down considering I agree with the statement. Y'all so precious. Anyway…

      This is an interesting post Slim and I can relate from three perspectives. 1) I grew up in a small town (15k) and moved to Houston (3 million). I was too young to notice but there was a HUGE difference. I've never lived in a city smaller than 500k since. 2) I went to a typical 2520 college and my cousin went to an HBCU. It was like night and day. I would visit his campus, sin sin sin by the hair on my chinny chin chin and then go back home and couldnt get play for the life of me. We were like the Lakers 3-peat dynasty but on my campus, I was the LA Clippers circa the 2000s. 3) Moving to CO from TX has been very eye opening. For one, there are no black people but there are "drunk white women for everybody"it is difficult finding a woman who looks like me – take from that what you want. But, the salt & pepper relationships out here are astounding – not that there's anything wrong with that…

      My recent post A Selfish Man

  • J2dajones

    The whole concept about work and laziness centers on does the man value what you bring to the table as a woman. Each individual case is different. Some women think that I went on 5 dates as opposed to one so I have a better chance of keeping a guy that is just false. I think women just have to do a better job of knowing what they want and sticking to that. Then knowing what they bring to the table outside of thier “degrees” and “independent status” and find a guy that values that. Women who do that seem to be happy snd those who don’t seem to be out here lost and searching for some fantasy

    • Bree

      Cosign J2dajones.

  • Hebrew Princess

    I totally agree with the post. I moved from NY to Atl 2 years ago. When I got to Atl I was in SHOCK at the behavior of these men that I went out on dates with. I would get things like “I dont have to worry because I KNOW I’m gonna get some”…this was said to me on a 1st date. I’ve also gotten “I’ve been dating you for a whole WEEK & you still havent had sex with me?!”. Then I saw the behavior of my female “friends” in Atlanta and it clicked. There are plenty of women out here that are not making men work for ANYTHING! Buy me dinner & you can have some a$$. Oh you have a girlfriend & 3 babymamas?! Thats ok I’ll still eff you on the regular. If a guy sees he doesnt have to put forth the effort, he wont! Then I come along & that same guy thats been screwing every Kiesha, Brittany & Tiffany thinks I’m an alien because I dont automatically get on my knees because he got me a bottle of Pierrer Jouet Rose. Its a shame but if more women dont hold themselves to a higher standard no one else well. Hence, the friends with benefits outnumbering the geniune relationships (out here anyway). It was much simpler for me in NY. Maybe because its so big or maybe because there were more options since I date men of all colors. Either way its sad & pathetic and some of these chicks need to get it together.

    • Adonis

      When women are shooting for men “out f their league”, the thirst will persist… Same with men

      • Bree

        Adonis "leagues" are totally irrelevant. My bff is a former professional model….she is almost 5'11 and gorgeous and still looks as good as she did in college and is the same size, she is funny, sweet, cool, down to earth, and she has a Masters from NYU and is a head nurse in an ER, own house and nice car and still single…..If men just want azz they just want azz…..they could give a frogs fat azz about the woman. Like someone said earlier, if a man does not want to be in a relationship then he doesn't want to be in a relationship with Any woman…..no matter how good she looks and what she has, what league she is in or whatever. Granted some men do get with a woman that takes care of him and buys him things and cooks and cleans and kisses his azz and gives him whatever he wants and never questions him about anything…..and the main reason he is with that woman is because she is buying him things, she has more money than him, she cooks, cleans, kisses his azz, does what he wants her to do and doesn't question him about a damn thing. Now if that woman were to stop or change then that man may be out quicker than a NY minute. Lately I haven't met many men who want a strong woman to challenge them and make them better…..they seem to be pretty content with themselves the way they are.

        • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

          @Bree

          In my opinion

          She is NOT a quality woman… There is something wrong with that particular situation…

          And if she is good as advertised… Send her my way…

    • Hugh Jazz

      Hebrew Princess: "There are plenty of women out here that are not making men work for ANYTHING!…Its a shame but if more women dont hold themselves to a higher standard no one else well."

      That pretty much says it all.

    • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

      "If a guy sees he doesnt have to put forth the effort, he wont!"

      This is only true for what VSB calls "diva dudes". I was raised by a man that stressed, "character is not about what a man can get away with; it's about who he IS", and never fell for that, "well, it's so easy, so I HAVE to take advantage" BS men are using all too regularly.

    • Bree

      "friends with benefits outnumbering the geniune relationships" Definitely a whole lot of that in the DMV. I had never even heard of fwb and "friends with benefits" until I moved here from Philly, (well Delaware at the time). The only way I understood what fwb was is that Wayne Brady had a song out at the time called fwb…..

  • chunk

    Does there EVER come a point when we expect men to hold _themselves_ to a "higher" standard that is _NOT_ based on women's actions/inactions?

    Why, in order for you to be a good, decent man, must I adhere to some outdated set of rules regarding my actions?

    Excuse my french (or don't) but, when the fcuk do men step up and be good men because they simply want/should/need to be and stop using what women are/are not doing as their excuse to be licentious?!

    My recent post Paradigm Shift: I Will Not Be Silenced

    • Mr. SD

      "Excuse my french (or don't) but, when the fcuk do men step up and be good men because they simply want/should/need to be and stop using what women are/are not doing as their excuse to be licentious?! "

      When we have good examples of other men that stepped up were good men

      • chunk

        Thanks SD! Honest question, what percentage of men would you guess have no examples of good men to emulate?
        My recent post Paradigm Shift: I Will Not Be Silenced

        • Mr. SD

          More than half is we're speaking of blk men in particular. The 70's and 80's (crack era) was crazy. It threw off all our numbers pertaining to the role of the good blk man.

          I can fully admit that most of the good I contribute to relationships is a direct influence of watching how my dad treats my mom, even til this day.

        • chunk

          "I can fully admit that most of the good I contribute to relationships is a direct influence of watching how my dad treats my mom"

          Meaning (for my own clarification): your actions are not determined by what women say/don't say or want/don't want… but instead they are determined by the kind of man you are, and that manhood was developed by emulating your father.

          Do I have that right?

          My recent post Paradigm Shift: I Will Not Be Silenced

        • Mr. SD

          Absolutely

          Every woman is different so there is a bit of well needed customization, but the overall feel what how to treat a lady like shes a lady comes from my pops

        • chunk

          Ok, I thought I did, but I didn't want to assume, lol.

          Now?

          I'm just gon sit back and watch women come tell men that the only way men gon be good men is if they (women) force y'all to, because… well, you know… women are in control of y'all behavior, integrity, character, and therefore manhood… so, no, not what you… a MAN… said makes you a good man, but what they… WOmen… said.

          *tips fitted*

          My recent post Paradigm Shift: I Will Not Be Silenced

        • Mr. SD

          Well the flip side is because of the absentee "good men" mothers take on that role (somewhat) and have a substantial influence on behavior, integrity, character, and therefore manhood. Which perpetuates into men finding women that either substitute their mothers role or do the total opposite

      • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

        Is that yet ANOTHER excuse? Are you telling me no men don't already KNOW they're taking advantage and not doing the right thing until it's pointed out to them by a good male role model? I call BS.

        • chunk

          What I see it as is evidence that there are men who are making decisions about how they choose to treat women that are INDEPENDENT of the actions of women themselves. It is not my responsibility to change my behavior to provoke you to be a good human being. Be a good human being because it is the right thing to do. But then the question becomes who taught you/showed you it was right? In his case? His daddy. I think it's a good point.
          My recent post Paradigm Shift: I Will Not Be Silenced

        • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

          Well, perhaps I'm not the best person to weigh in on this. I have both of my parents, and they're still married 35+ years later. I grew up in as close to "The Cosby Show" as is possible in real life. So I don't know what it's like to NOT have a positive role model.

          BUT, the world is NOT just your parents. The world is teachers, pastors, friends, etc. And somewhere in your life, you saw how they were acting and knew it was the right thing to do. My father, who is the best father in the world and the type of father I would want my man to be, did NOT have a good relationship with his father. He became much closer to his high school DRAMA TEACHER, and looked up to him. He didn't say he never knew right from wrong because his father wasn't there. People know.

        • chunk

          Actually all you did was further illustrate my point :o)

          There are a host of things/people that build character and hopefully lead a person to live with integrity. The point is, women taking on this role of "your behavior as a grown azz man is/should be dictated by what I say or do" instead of by who you are as a person (and these are grown azz people we talkin about?!) is ridiculous.
          My recent post Paradigm Shift: I Will Not Be Silenced

        • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

          Yes, I agree. Your character is YOUR concern and shouldn't rely on me.

        • Bree

          Cosign Chunk

        • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

          Excellent points, madam. I’ve retired my argument that manhood is weak and dependent because men just keep agreeing with me.

      • Bree

        true dat Mr. SD….especially in the black community…..no where near enough men who are good examples of what a "good decent man" should be.

    • Smilez_920

      In some case I agree with you men shouldn’t base holing themselves to a higher standard based on women's actions/inactions something’s should just be ingrained in as being a gentlemen.

      But at the same time why should I put in this much effort —————-> when all you require or even think your worth is this much effort –>, it’s like paying 10 dollars for a 3 dollar gallon of milk.

      Again I’m not advocating that men should act like jerks b/c women aren’t making them put in work but as a women why wouldn’t you want to make it your own personal standard that a man has to STEP up.

      Think of yourself like a company if I am a man going on a interview to your company and I know in order to be in the running for a job at your company, I have to have on a suit and my resume had to be on point, then that’s what I’m going to do, but vice versa if I know to get a job at your company all I have to do for the interview all I have to do is show up I might just be 5 min late.

      • Hebrew Princess

        Thank you! I am a woman & I’m say women should hold themselves to a higher standard because THAT is the only thing that WE have control over. If a man doesnt hold himself to a high standard then you dont have to deal with him. But since I’m a woman who may have to enter the dating pool again once day I would like for us women to act right so men wont EXPECT easy a$$, etc from us. Like @Simelz_920 said…no one in their right mind is going to pay $10 for a $3 gallon of milk!

      • bellatrice1

        Unfortunately, requiring a man to "Step up" or "Wait" still doesn't guarantee that you'll get the guy. I have always made men work, but that didn't determine whether they were going to choose me as a mate or even see my value. And, at the end of the day, you've made them wait and "put in work," (wasting precious time) but if that man is not looking to settle down or find a good woman, and he is not someone who holds himself to higher standard and doesn't give it up to everything with legs, it won't matter. He'll get what he wants and bounce.
        My recent post Dear TT: My Friend’s Man Hit On Me

    • Muze

      thing is… it's always been like that. women control a man's actions more than a man controls his actions. back when it was required of a man to marry a woman to get the benefits of a wife, he married her. now, a man just has to smile and he can take a woman home, get a steak and a BJ and send her on her way saying "i'll call you" and she's okay with it. men have become "the catch." smh.

      women have a lot of power. we just have started using it bassackwardly.
      My recent post two sweaty dollars

      • Beef Bacon

        Co-sign Muze.

    • Teflon Mom

      I try not to think too hard along those lines, my head is sure to explode. But when you find a man who is a good man *without* you….it's like the dude with money, finding the girl with her own money. Racks on racks of goodness.

    • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

      Women relegate sex, men relegate commitment. Not our fault if you play your cards before we play ours, bro.

      My recent post A Selfish Man

      • chunk

        Any time I want to argue with you today I hear your effing voice from the radio this morning and give you a pass. #ThatIsAll

        My recent post Paradigm Shift: I Will Not Be Silenced

      • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

        I’m just proud I wasn’t born a man.

      • Top5DOA

        Mmmmmmhhhh.

        +10

    • http://twitter.com/ShareefJackson @ShareefJackson

      Yep. This is what makes good men stand out IMO.

      If someone turns "good" because they're in a smaller city, that's not saying much about their character.
      My recent post Happy New Year!

    • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

      No way, I have been wondering the same for women…

      We condition each other… And we are a reflection of each other…

      No dice

  • Mr. SD

    This post pretty much sums it up. Ive been single in NYC a little over 2yrs now and its Grrrrrreat! Its like Slim said, you don't have to show up. you can be as available as you like and still keep a chick interested. Its the best! And I don't even feel bad. Im not sure if times have changed or if it just took me getting older, but in my younger days it was extremely difficult to even court a chick, women had a ton of options. These days you meet a female in her late 20's early 30's and she all of a sudden READY! Maybe its not a just a NYC thing but dammit im gonna enjoy it while it last

    • King Jordan.

      maybe it has something to do with the ages of the women and men seeking each other….?

    • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

      "And I don't even feel bad."

      Read this ladies. Don't forget it. They don't even FEEL BAD for taking advantage, so don't sit around waiting for them to have some remorse over things. The cards are stacked in their favor and they like it that way.

      • Mr. SD

        Pretty much…lol

        its like when yall was 18, perky and on the loose..yall had all the options in the world and yall juggled us all day…same difference.

        • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

          Don't include me in that y'all. I'm not that "progressive". I was a late bloomer and didn't start dating til the men were already done even TRYING to be gentlemen. STARTING dating in college can really give you a unfavorable view of dating, but you can't let that make you bitter.

        • Mr. SD

          Id like to know ya view on dating…splain

        • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

          LOL. That's a long story and I'm not dwelling on that foolishness anymore. Lets just say the dating game had me asking "Why do bad things happen to good people?" with no answer. I had given up, and then just ignored it altogether, and then I finally met someone (FIVE YEARS after moving to the city and actively dating). If not for my career in the music scene, I was going to move at the end of 2012. SERIOUSLY.

          I crack my mom up with stories from my dates from long, stalker-like texts to dudes blowing me off when I asked why I hadn't heard from them in SIX DAYS, like I was sweating them. Y'all really just don't give a F until one day, a light switches on, and you do. I wonder how that works out for y'all karmically. To do that much dirt and still think one day you'll get your very own Beyonce when you're ready to settle down.

        • Mr. SD

          I know that boomerang is coming back around to smack me in my head one day..lol I wear my bulletproof fitted errday just incase

        • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

          Maybe you'll get lucky. Plenty of dudes who did A LOT of dirt still got lovely ladies. Supply and demand, I suppose. :)

        • Mr. SD

          Fingers crossed..lol

  • Smilez_920

    I think women are less pressed in smaller cities b/c if you meet a good man and don’t throw him your number right away nine times out of ten you will see him again and you guys can play cat and mouse. In a big city like NYC I guess women feel like if you don’t snatch him up on sight, then you'll lose out.

    I think women have just lost sight of what it means for a man to put in work. In a big city there are a lot of good men but there are also a lot of bad ones too. I mean some men won’t even try to ask you out on dates anymore they go "why don’t you come to my house and watch a movie" like what this is not college and your apartment is not a dorm. I think we go on dates and focus solely on what a man on his "resume" i.e. (job, looks, places he's been , college educated…) that we forget to look at the big picture which is how will he treat us and how much effort is he willing to put into building a relationship with us.

    For the sake of today’s post does any man want to step up and throw out some ways we can make men work harder? (Maybe some personal examples).

    • King Jordan

      "does any man want to step up and throw out some ways we can make men work harder?"

      i'm not understanding the concept of 'working harder'…

      presumably 'dating' is a set of chances to get to know somebody better…in order to have a sexual relationship/get married to someone…no?

      so wouldn't it be better instead of trying to make someone 'work' for…(insert what you want)

      just simply get to know him? his likes, his dislikes? and if it doesn't vibe for you, well…there's other fish in the sea (aren't there like 400K NYCers in the same age range, more or less?)

      *apologies for my sporadic posting today in advance*

      • AY1

        UGGGGH! I hate the term "Work for it" as it relates to relationships.

        Your comment King Jordan is the only intelligent comment on here. So 3 things

        1) Okay, I realize that Black men and woman are reaching a new level on Maslow's hierarchy of needs- love and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierar

        So we are exploring and experimenting with how we want to craft our relationship journey. I have no problem with men dating as many women as they can. That makes it much easier on me sexually, mentally and emotionally. When he meets me, he will know himself.

        2) I don't understand why we need to tie down the black man's sexuality. Let him be free. My best lovers and most honest boyfriends were men with a diverse dating and sexual history. They came to the bedroom correct, the treated me with respect and they know how to make me happy. They learned these experiences came from other women.

        3) I am a woman and I will acknowledge that women are too possessive. I sense even with my own female friends who want all of my time. Give each other space to learn about our individuality. Things will naturally come together.

        4) You can't make a relationship happen. Relationships don't have to be "Worked". It is a spiritual, universal and chemical bonding process that is more than just whether or not you live in a big city.

  • King Jordan

    i haven't seen what you speak of Slim…i guess it's my own personal luck…or lack of it

    but i won't say it doesn't exist.

    Cool post bruh *salute*
    -P. Parker

  • Hugh Jazz

    Smilez_920: "For the sake of today’s post does any man want to step up and throw out some ways we can make men work harder? (Maybe some personal examples)."

    Sure.

    Hebrew Princess: "When I got to Atl I was in SHOCK at the behavior of these men that I went out on dates with. Then I saw the behavior of my female "friends" in Atlanta and it clicked. There are plenty of women out here that are not making men work for ANYTHING! Buy me dinner & you can have some a$$. Oh you have a girlfriend & 3 babymamas?! Thats ok I'll still eff you on the regular. If a guy sees he doesnt have to put forth the effort, he wont!"

    Men want $ex. Women today are practically giving it away. Why would men give more? It's like a car dealer telling you the 2012 Acura TL is $35K, but you can have it for $20K. Who in their right mind would spend the extra 15 grand? As Dave Chappelle said, if a man thought he could get a woman living in a cardboard box, he wouldn't buy a house.

    • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

      This guy gets it.

      Women (generally) want commitment. Men (always generally) want sex. So it's my fault you give me sex before I give you commitment? …say what now? One of us already got what we wanted out of the deal and if it wasnt you, chances arrrrrreeeeee…..

      My recent post A Selfish Man

      • Beef Bacon

        If I didn't know any better, I would think sex is all that matter to men. What internal switch tells a man that he needs more than sex? Or does he…..hmmmmmm. No, seriously, I love the way brains work, enlighten me.

        • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

          You misunderstand. Sex is not all that matters to men but neither is commitment. If a man wants commitment, he will go out and look for it. If a man wants sex, he will go out and look for it too. If he only wants sex from you – and you give it to him while expecting more, I'm sorry, but in my humble opinion, that's your bad ("your" being whoever this hypothetical woman may be). I actually don't see what's so complicated. If I wanted commitment, I wouldnt settle for anything less – and I wouldnt blame someone for offering me less – thanks but no thanks……

          Like Hugh, if I go to the car dealership and I want an Acura TL and the dealer tries to sell me a souped up Hyundai I'm going to respectfully tell him to kiss my ass and show me the car fax on the Acura TL, because that's what I wanted. It's not the dealer's fault he tried to low ball me, he just wants a sale, it's my fault if I accept his offer though.
          My recent post A Selfish Man

        • Mr. SD

          lol show me the car fax

        • Jupiter Calhoun

          Okay. Let's switch it up.

          Say a man wants a relationship with a woman, but she only enjoys spending time with him as a friend. If he is giving her his time and company, but she's out with other dudes, that's on him. He needs to either accept that he's getting the short end of the stick, or move on to a woman that will give him what he's looking for.

          It's not really a matter of gender. For the most part, humans will seek out their own gratification before giving gratification to others. Basically, given the choice between getting something for free and having to give up something for it, most people, regardless of gender, will take before they give anything.

        • Bree

          True Dat Jupiter…..most all of us deep down want Everything for Nothing. And if we could have it our way like BK we would take it in a heartbeat……but that don't make it right.

      • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

        You make different variations of this comment a lot. Actually its what you mostly say. A theme, if you will. I’ve got nothing against themes, of course. Got one of my own. But it seems like your repetition of this theme, let’s call it “It’s not my fault I took advantage of you, its your fault for letting me do it” is a manifestation of a guilty conscience or desire to shift responsibility that you know lies smack dab in your lap. Cause you keep repeating… Just saying.

        • Hugh Jazz

          Not sure if this if to me or WIM, but we're saying the same thing.

          Yes, it appears you have a theme. The fact you call it "(taking) advantage" says that. The thing is if a man is not looking to settle down, he honestly feels he isn't doing anything wrong whatsoever! There is no guilty conscience to manifest itself. So if someone has a guilty conscious, it would appear to be the woman in this situation because women are the ones complaining about it, which means yes, she is playing herself.

          I keep repeating because the same topic comes up. Just saying.

        • WisdomIsMisery

          Funny. She was talking to me yet Hugh responded exactly how I would. If I respond to the same question the same way, it's not a theme, it means I'm not wavering in my opinion. As a side note, I generally don't respond to WC – even though she's cool – because she is good for misconstruing my words to fit her own damn theme. lol

          It's-all-good-doe, dawg.

        • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

          It was to WIM, and he’s implied, or said outright, that he struggles with his conscience when he knows hes with a woman who wants a relationship, but takes advantage of the situation by not making it clear that he does not. But declares often in comments that the blame for that rests entirely with her.

        • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

          Ok.

          My recent post A Selfish Man

        • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

          LOL!

      • Top5DOA

        I was waiting for the brothas to drop knowledge

      • Bree

        Wis that's understood….but the thing is many men lie, bs, scheme, plot and game play to get sex….that's the part that's dead azz wrong…..Rarely does a man tell a woman from the door "I just wanna fu** you then imma be on my way and you be on yours and you can delete my number after we fu** but if I feel like smashing you again I'll email you". What he does say is, "I want a relationship and I want to get married and have kids and blah blah blah blah and agrees with everything she says and many men will "work for it" until the woman believes what he says and hopes and steps out on faith, and hey she is horny too so she gives it up and he takes it and bounces. You can't compare the car deal or anything of the sort to sex and relationships because in that instance you can simply pay a lesser amnt for the car and bounce right from the door.
        Again there are men who will "wait for it" and say and do all the right things and it's all GAME. Some have more of it than Parker Bros. And I understand why men lie and bs women so much…..because forreal if they told the truth they wouldn't get half the azz they try to get and they would lose out a lot more. But wrong is wrong, and the lying and bsing and stringin women along to get some azz and dip is dead azz wrong. I've had men who date me for a month and talk about they want to be my man and want a relationship and want to get married and want me to have their baby, knowing good and hell well all they really want is some azz. And lest we not forget about the men who actually tell a woman "they love her" just to make it easier to get some azz. I'm just sayin……

    • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

      As Dave Chappelle said, if a man thought he could get a woman living in a cardboard box,

      I am trying to smash a chick in a "cardboard box" right now (aka abandoned part of a building)

      Why pull out all the stops… FOH

      • Bree

        wth is FOH?????

        • Naija

          "[Get the] F*** Out of Here," also seen as GTFOH.

        • Bree

          ok…Thanks Naija……..I learn a new acronym almost everyday lately….lol

  • Ms. Smart

    Ha. I just had the self-worth convo and blogged about it. To me, it's a crock. Even if I'm not worth two shakes of a stick, a grown up treats humans with some piece of respect and consideration. Petulant children, or men who were wack in HS and get 'shine' as adults, get drunk on the cornucopia of desperate women chasing (under the guise of being proactive), after them.

    The flip side is that pretty women fall into this too. Why stick with a dude who doesn't have everything when there are five more sniffing around? And they're dudes who other women are chasing? Please. The difference between men and women in this situation is that attractive women (8+, particularly 'mainstream' attractive), get pursued by men (of all races), at a rate that 4+ men get pursued. So I say all that to say the same phenomenon exists for women–but just the pretty ones.

    For men, the day comes when they want to have someone 'special'. And because of their past rotation of easy women, they assume the 'special' will be the one who isn't paying them any attention.

    Oh and that out of town thing hit home because I had an NYC dude essentially say the same thing to me.

    • Smilez_920

      "a grown up treats humans with some piece of respect and consideration."

      True and I don’t think it’s about dudes that are straight up disrespectful for example like men on Fordham Rd yelling "ayo ma whats ya number" I think this is more about women not only setting standards but keeping them even when they meet a man they feel might be worth a try.

      I mean yes a man should treat you with some piece of respect but even if he is treating you ok or nice you should want him to go a little harder make him show you that he's worth your time. Most men don’t mind going above and beyond but if they don’t have to then why break a sweat. I mean to a certain extent that’s human nature if you know you can perform average and still get extreme results you will but if you know you have to be on point to get extreme results you will buckle down and work hard.

      • Ms. Smart

        Here's an example. I get to work about 15 minutes late everyday. This is because I'm lazy. No other reason. Do they allow it? Sure. Does that give me an excuse for being this grown and this lazy? Naw. I should be at work on time. I know the right thing to do. So just because a woman lets a man treat her poorly, it still doesn't let him off the hook for being inconsistent, disrespectful, etc. Women need to stop shouldering the weight for keeping grown men in line. I'll take 50% for allowing poor treatment but I'm surely putting the other 50% on his shoulders.

        • Mr. SD

          That's the thing tho, you taking 50% is all we need to act a fool..lol

        • Ms. Smart

          Lemme clarify smarty pants…50% of the blame for allowing the situation to occur. But i'll be damned if I sit there and think it's ALL my fault. Naw.

        • Mr. SD

          You almost got me in trouble for laughing out loud at work

          but wait the 50% that's not ya fault is on who?s shoulders? that man that treated you poorly in particular? or all men?

        • Ms. Smart

          The 50% is on the specific man. It would be ridiculous for me to charge all men with the crimes of one. If I did, I'd open the door to be lumped in with every duplicitous yamp who out there. Naw. Me. No. Want.

        • Mr. SD

          Can i ask the $10,000 question of the day?? y do you let men treat you poorly?

        • Ms. Smart

          1) Women are mind fugged into thinking loving =suffering and living through extreme discomfort. Many don't even recognize it as discomfort.

          2) We think we can get a man to act like he did when we first met. The truth is that dating dude was his rep. The dude in the relationship is his true self.

          Both scenarios, me no want at all in any form.

        • Mr. SD

          Yea but you cant really stop dating all together right? so how do you marginalize ya past experiences and finding that blissful situation?

        • Ms. Smart

          Great question. Men (defined by quality of character, not to be confused with 'men of age') don't actually behave IRL as these innanets would have one believe. The most dysfunctional people are usually the loudest and always trying to normalize their foolish behaviors.

          I didn't want to believe it, but I've been told I have a very masculine way of compartmentalizing men. So if a dude has fatal flaws but is cool to hang out with, I will. But he will be tucked into the frociate (friend + associate – ass) box. I will efficiently and effectively communicate this category movement.

          Plus, I'm always watching. A man has three cars but his home exterior needs painting and grass needs cutting? He's about 'the show' and not substance. A man makes sure the man-shyt around his home gets done just like a woman about her woman-shyt keeps a guest ready home. I don't want to have to be the wife who nags to get it done. However, I don't mind giving encouragement and accolades for good work. :-) A man who makes fun of people who has less than he has, he's cruel and his karma will come for him. I don't want to be standing beside him when it does. I also do mental status checks. Then the pros and cons of dealing with a man become even, I get on high alert. The second the cons tip the scales, I plot my escape through systematic disengagement. But again, I'm a weirdo sooooo…

        • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

          You would make a great person to keep around to keep me on my toes, but a gf… *runs*

        • Ms. Smart

          Naw. I'm not for everyone–which is why I'm able to not take you comment personally and call in some e-goons. Also, I don't outwardly have these thoughts. How do I get away with saying them online? Because even if a man recognizes me, he usually believes he's so special that none of this applies to him. *sigh*

        • Mr. SD

          Damn girl that's a lot of work..lol

          You def don't have a mans mind..we don't think that hard..lol But i do get ya points

        • Ms. Smart

          It's not a lot of work because it's my natural thought process. For me, being stupid would be harder because it goes against my basic natural self-preservation instincts. And I already told y'all I'm kind of weird–especially to new people.

        • Ms. Smart

          And since we're asking questions, the 15K question is: What makes a man treat women a certain way from day one? Without knowing anything past a 'hello' what is it about some women that they get relegated to tier 4 and others automatically get tier 1 treatment?

        • Mr. SD

          It depends on the class of both parties….if im a 7 chasing a 9 them that 9 will get tier 1 treatment (unless she fucks up..lol)…..If im a 7 and i bag a 5 (which tends to occur more than anything) I'm treating that 5 however i please…shes a damn 5!

          I say that to say it depends on the level of the chick. I was trying to explain this to a good female friend of mine last night on the phone and it went terribly wrong..lol she got offended, but i was keepin it real

        • Ms. Smart

          And this is why some women feel the 'man shortage' and others done. See, chicks would e-drag me across these internets if I wrote exactly what you wrote. Based on what you say, 5's should really focus on getting a 4 in order to be treated well? She should probably stop going after Idris because Idris has his pick of 10's? Or if she does catch Idris' eye, she has to try harder (no Avis)?

        • Mr. SD

          Exactly! You have to stay in ya lane.

          A great example is lets say i meet a a sexy celeb – Gabrielle, and know for a fact id wanna smash but i would expect her to hubby me up.. and i prob wouldnt wife her in reality because she can acquire them elite dudes aka DWade

          Women dont think this way – yall assume if ever ever ever ever yall had the chance to get with Idris there is a clear opportunity to put it on him and hes gonna magically wife ya lame ass up….Crazy expectations..lol

        • Ms. Smart

          And right about now, this is the time where we need a woman to come up in here telling us about out the 5's she knows happily married to 10's. This is about the time where she conveniently ignores even the possibility that the relationship requires the woman to work super duper hard to campaign to get the man to stay. And then I check out cus lots of things are possible but not so probably.

        • Mr. SD

          Don't check out!

          Aiight imma keep it real with you, a SMART man absolutely will not let a good ass woman get away from him. Regardless of the odds. That's the bottom line. I never ever in my life was ready to be in a relationship, met a female that I thought was perfect for me and let her walk away! Never Ever.

        • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

          This comment right here. Realest words ya ever wrote!

          And this Women dont think this way – yall assume if ever ever ever ever yall had the chance to get with Idris there is a clear opportunity to put it on him and hes gonna magically wife ya lame ass up….Crazy expectations..lol

          L-O-L
          My recent post A Selfish Man

        • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

          Y'all are wild in here. Mad rude and disrespectful in comments and, if the comments are true, in life. Such a shame.

        • Mr. SD

          Its real tho. I mean i know my lane and I stay in it..lol

        • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

          I don't STAY anywhere. If I was a dog, I'd fail obedience school every time. Not in the business of pigeon-holing.

        • Mr. SD

          Sounds good to me.

        • Smilez_920

          I agree both parties are responsible. But for the sake of a woman not wasting her time and energy.

          If she holds high standards in the beginning someone who will treat her poorly wont even make it in the running to b eher man because she will be able to read his script from jump look at his actions and kick him to the curb before it goes any further.

          This action is not about keeping grown men in line but about keeping the ones who are out of line out of your dating life and keeping the ones who know how to act.

        • Ms. Smart

          You know how many men can pretend to be something for six weeks to three months? Many are sociaopathic but they know the game and play it well. I think a lot of women fall for THOSE dudes. In the time a man is 'playing perfect', he always gives us signs he's on some shyt. Most of us just get caught up and either decide to ignore the signs below the surface OR don't know what to look for. One of the biggest signs of someone's true character (and by extension, intent) is how they treat others. A man who is stevia-sweet to me but cruel to others will be cruel to me when I'm of no use to him. I learned that from my daddy but a lot of chicks didn't have anyone to tell them this and then point to examples. Furthermore, a lot of men don't really know why they treat women poorly. It goes beyond being able to do so. Some men just don't like women. It doesn't mean they are gay. They are angry at women in general.

        • Beef Bacon

          Yeah, those mama issues are no joke.

          Ms. Smart, you are spot on with this comment.

        • Smilez_920

          I’m not trying to excuse a man for treating woman poorly. I’m just saying don’t be so anxious to connect with someone that you don’t see if their putting in any real effort. And from what some of these men are saying all they have to do is be there to get what they want.

          Yes respect should be a given between two adults, but also how many times have we said how do you expect ppl to respect you if you don’t respect yourself. If you don’t set the expectation for what’s acceptable for you when you are dealing with a man don’t expect him to set those standards for you. Again I’m not saying this gives him an excuse to be disrespectful but it might explain why you’re not getting the reaction or person you are looking for.

        • Ms. Smart

          The difference of opinion here just in that I do not believe adults of good character need to be consistently steered into displaying said good character. If a bum on the street will eat food I throw on the ground, that doesn't mean I shouldn't still hand it to him. If a stripper will gladly take money balled up and thrown at her head, it doesn't mean I should decide not to throw a flat bill at her feet or tuck it in one of those strings I hear they have around their thighs.

          I like to see what a man does without me having to force his hand. Cus I would hate to end up marrying a man who I have to force to spend time with me, speak kindly to our children, attend their events, etc. I'd hate to HAVE TO NAG to get shyt done. Naw. That's too much work and it's the kind of work that makes women age poorly. Me. No. Want.

          If I can't respect a man because I don't believes he respects himself in a way I recognize, I will leave instead of taking advantage. I've always known this was the RIGHT thing to do and the one time I caught myself doing otherwise, I straightened up and flew right out of his life. I wasn't adding value to his life and he wasn't adding anything to mine except a false sense of power.

        • Smilez_920

          agreed. just deal with men who treat you nice/good/respectful and ignore/move on/look pass the ones who dont.

        • Ms. Smart

          Because often, dudes don't start off treating the women bad.

        • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

          You know how many men can pretend to be something for six weeks to three months? Many are sociaopathic but they know the game and play it well.

          Chill with the exposes, we gotta keep other women in the dark, you know…?

        • Ms. Smart

          I'm not trying to expose anything. These are just MY truths based on MY experience and observation. When I see something that goes against these beliefs, I review and adjust. What other women do is of very little concern to me.

        • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

          You & I know… that you are on the upper end of the matrix… That I will not let you wiggle out of…

          Now the question comes in is that can a woman like you snag a guy that you perceive is above you & make it work for the long-term…

          That is where intelligence in women bites them…

        • Ms. Smart

          Ha. Thanks. But I purposely kept my pic off for years because I like the focus to be on what I say and not how I look. But since most of the people knew who I was anyway, last evening I decided to let the chips fall where they may.

          *getting very little done at work today*

          1) It's not MY role to snag a man. A man snags me and reaps the benefits that come along with us being a team. But I'm not for every man. I work best with A-type personalities who are traditional.

          2) There isn't a 2 so…

        • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

          Well, the main point of all this, is that if your match never comes along, you will be perfectly fine…

          At least, that is how I go about it… I think I see that in you

        • Bree

          MOTR I will say this…I've had several matches. I know men who are my matches right now, but as SD mentioned if he doesn't want a relationship a man could love you to death and not "allow himself" to fall in love, and if he does never do a damn thing about it. He will never be in a serious committed relationship with that woman, much less wife her.
          So for me it's not about meeting my match because I've already met them.
          My thing is if a man never ever proposes to me, and I never get married and I never have a child then I'm cool with that….got no choice but to be. This situation is directly related to the 1st part of the Serenity Prayer.
          God Grant Me The Serenity To ACCEPT The Things I Cannot Change.
          the courage to change the things that i can
          and the wisdom to know the difference. Unlike many people, I learned the difference at a fairly young age.
          I would love to be a wife and mother, but if it doesn't happen then it's beyond my control and obviously wasn't meant to be and God has other plans for me. Either way it's all good…..*smile*

        • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

          No, you do have a choice BREE… It is called settling for lesser men who want to wife you up…

          THAT IS WHAT WOMEN FAIL TO BRING UP when they want to argue about when they say men are no good…

          The men THEY WANT are no good… But they still can make it work with a lesser man, they just don't want to… Therein lies the choice…
          :-)

        • spiderlgs

          I must agree with this in some cases.. I've seen it with mine own eyes.. and lived it once LOL sometimes single is absolutely a choice.

        • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

          Spider… I know, I should cease from commenting, but I cannot stand it when women try to bang me in the head the "I am a VICTIM" spiel

        • Bree

          MOTR I'm a great woman and I've never had a problem attracting men (and on rare occassions a woman)
          At any rate, I know I wasn't wifeable when I was younger because I refused to do some of the things men want a woman to do when she is his wife. So to a certain degree I have a choice. But bottom line is a woman can be finer than Lisa Raye, Paula Patton and Alicia Keyes and have a great personality, but if she is not willing to do the things he wants his "wife" to do then I doubt he will marry her.
          Bottom line some women never get proposed to. The only thing they can do is change. If the woman is happy with who she is and doesn't want to change and become the woman that a man will want to marry then she may never get a proposal. Or if she is too into her career then she may never get a proposal or if she is just not that good looking she may never get a proposal. I mean lets be real……Who would marry a chick that looked just like precious (but non famous without the money)?

        • Bree

          I don't think I've ever met a man that doesn't like women……..? I pray I never ever do……
          As for the "leagues" and the "lanes" again I think some men just don't have the desire to put in too much work and do not want the Responsibility that many women require in a relationship. You also have men who purposely stay relationship free to stay stress free and maintain the freedom to come and go as they please and do whatever the fu** they wanna do, when they wanna do it. And they are happy and Nothing is wrong with that.
          I know very very attractive women who men will get with and treat good and stay with for a while….but still Never Wife…….why? – because those women require more in a relationship than they want to give.
          I've asked men here in the DMV, "why does it seem like yall don't like the women right here, especially since there are so many beautiful and successful women out here? Answer was – "they are too much work and they ask for too damn much and got nasty azz attitudes." They agreed that there was an abundance of beautiful, independent and educated women here, however, I was also told that many women "don't know how to treat a man" and have too much of a sense of "entitlement and want too much but aren't willing to give much."
          The difference between women and men is we ladies will give without receiving.
          We walk by faith and not by sight. We give without getting, give a lot and get very little and/or before we get anything, hope, pray and wish on stars that we will get the Prince Charming/Knight & Shining Armor that we desire. Some men don't give a damn thing until they get what they want. Whatever they do give they aren't worried about because it means nothing to them. No real sacrifice is made. Based on many people's comments nowadays men don't have to do anything but show up. They don't have to spend money or anything….just show up and give a woman some attention and tell her what she wants to hear and that's that.
          I think the men do have a point that more women need to raise the level of expectations and stop fallin for the "okey doke." Make sure the Actions speak louder than the Words……..

        • chunk

          "Women need to stop shouldering the weight for keeping grown men in line. "

          Yep. Where are the women running to tell you that this is just not reasonable? Perhaps because you're willing to accept 50% of the responsibility for their actions? (While other women are insistent that men take 100% responsibility for their actions) *ponders*

          My recent post Paradigm Shift: I Will Not Be Silenced

        • Ms. Smart

          I think you're misunderstanding me. I will take responsibility for getting in and staying in a piss-poor situation. But the man has to take responsibility for his actions in the situation too. This is a two way street. And I've actually been in the man's position–displaying poor character because I could. I had to acknowledge that having someone love me was not only a gift but a responsibility because I was doing things that make it sometimes look like he and I were on the same page. But it was a lie. I had to take responsibility for how I was choosing to treat the man simply because I could get away with it. I was being opportunistic. While he could have stopped me, he should not have needed to. I should have been of sound enough character to do better because I clearly knew better. The bottom line is that I can not control anyone. All I can do is control myself and how I react to others. I'll take responsibility for those things which is what I mean by taking 50% of the responsibility for being in a messed up relationship.

        • chunk

          I think we agree but my last comment lacked clear differentiation between my agreement with you and my snarkiness about some of the comments today, lol.

          My recent post Paradigm Shift: I Will Not Be Silenced

        • Ms. Smart

          Got it!

    • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

      The difference between men and women in this situation is that attractive women (8+, particularly 'mainstream' attractive), get pursued by men (of all races), at a rate that 4+ men get pursued. So I say all that to say the same phenomenon exists for women–but just the pretty ones.

      This went over my head… Say that again…?

      • Ms. Smart

        The phenomenon described above happens to pretty women too. They get to the point where they start to get a false sense of self because men make it so easy for them to 'act out' in ways that their lesser attractive cohorts can't.

        • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

          I think I got it now…

    • chunk

      "Ha. I just had the self-worth convo and blogged about it. To me, it's a crock. Even if I'm not worth two shakes of a stick, a grown up treats humans with some piece of respect and consideration."

      I do believe you and I are saying the same thing. So let me go read your blog because you might save me the ranting blog post I was about spit out at my place.
      My recent post Paradigm Shift: I Will Not Be Silenced

    • http://twitter.com/tylerg_thomas @tylerg_thomas

      +1. I agree with your post.

      "a grown up treats humans with some piece of respect and consideration"

      This one of the biggest problem with modern dating is that women are viewed like a commodity by men. And the sad thing is that women accept it like its not a problem.

      "For men, the day comes when they want to have someone 'special'. And because of their past rotation of easy women, they assume the 'special' will be the one who isn't paying them any attention."

      Its not that she isn't paying them any attention, its that she is not going to put up with that kind of bullsh*t. Behavior like that makes me wonder how can you have a sustainable relationship.

    • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

      They assume special is the one who isn’t paying them any attention. That old assigning value based on your own effort business. Sooooo dumb. But men will ci
      Continue to stare at their tools and think the world revolves around it. I say they’re sitting ducks for a woman who lies and plays the game well, but thats just me.

      • Ms. Smart

        Absolutely. I've watched many men get got–hard. All I care about though is that my brothers aren't those men.

  • reluctantsocialite

    I completely agree with this post.

    I moved to Houston from considerably smaller midwestern city. Since there would be so many more men to choose from, I assumed that I would have my pick of men. Not so much…

    It does seem (generally speaking) like women in big cities tend to be very accomplished with more advanced degrees than you can count, however they don't make men work very hard, and this has caused men to be very spoiled and lazy when it comes to dating. One of my closest friends that I've met since I've been down here is also from a small city and we OFTEN have conversations about how little men are willing to work for a woman's attention because of the fact that women here make things so easy. It ends up being really hard for us to find decent guys that we would actually consider dating, despite the fact that there are so many more men in our enviornment. I mean… its like they feel like they have to put zero effort in. Its crazy! It gets pretty frustrating, sometimes…

    Slim… thanks for writing this. I really appreciated your honesty in this post.

    • Christina

      I moved to Houston from a much smaller city, and was really surprised at how aggressive these women are down here, and there really are PLENTY of men. Single men. These men think that because I'm not from here, that I'm gonna be "easy" or willing to invite strange men over to my house in the middle of the night, and when they're denied access I am then labeled crazy. I've had a bit of luck in Houston with men, but the men that I've dealt with are not from Houston.

  • starita34

    *exhales*
    Ahhh, it feels so good when you speak the truth…

    • Teflon Mom

      Wassup Rita – Where da hell you been!?!

      • starita34

        Hey Tef :-) Girl, I'd like to say I've been being productive at the job, but I got no excuses, just been a lurker of late…

        'Preciate ya saying hey though *hugs* How those lovely lil girls treating you?

        • Teflon Mom

          They are a handful! Both walking, one thinks she's a circus performer climbing all over everything. She's gonna give me a heart attack, lol. They just had their first birthday last month.

  • madscientist7

    well i've been here for about six months and the few times i've gone out it does seem that women do readily offer me their phone numbers when i do engage in casual conversation with them. honestly, that's not anything different than i'm accustomed to living else where. now i will say that dating is hard in a city like new york. for one most people don't own cars and that makes dating kind of different. instead of "i'll pick you up at 7." that has turned into "i'll meet you at so and so."

    i haven't done too much dating in this city though. i do love when women try to intimidate me with their degrees in conversation. i'm not impressed by that sweetheart. i have multiple degrees too. thats not going to make me like you anymore than do or i don't. perhaps i should see more of what this city has to offer.
    My recent post A Revolutionary Act

    • http://blackgirlmd.wordpress.com blackgirlmd

      eww… i hate conversations where everyone is trying to outdo the next person. so pointless, and its not even interesting. i just leave lol.
      My recent post Cheers to the Frickin Wknd

    • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

      People trying to intimidate each other with their degrees is why I don't date fellow Ivy Leaguers and why I don't go to the THOUSANDS of Ivy League happy hours for grown and sexy Black folks. It's attack of the "Me Monsters" in those places. No thank you. I'd rather date a guy who works at FedEx and can actually have a CONVERSATION.

    • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

      How do you know they are trying to intimidate you? Ive heard this a lot and it makes me wonder if mentioning you have a degree in a casual, get to know you conversation is seen as an attempt to intimidate.

      • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

        My thing is, why bring it up at all… It doesn't impress men as a collective…

        Showing how you can be a great sex partner (STR) or a helper/wife (LTR) is paramount…

        I believe women do that to intimidate BTW

        • http://www.wildcougarconfessions.com Wild Cougar

          Naw, you’re way off. Its simple conversation. Like, i enjoy movies, I have an MBA, I love gardening. If you feel like its intimidating or shes trying to intimudate, thats about your lack of confidence about your accomplishments more than anything. Many confident men prefer an educated career woman.

        • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

          Well… I will just say this… I love SMART women or INTELLIGENT women… When applied right, they can be FAN-Tastic people to grace this planet

          But I don't like when women lean with that, and are out of touch with the natural woman inside her… I will pick dumb blonde over you any day of the week…

          For example, I met a chick from a country in Africa at the library a few weeks ago… I am asking her about her career ambitions… And she was very evasive about it… No problem… (Engaged, BTW, my favs)

          And then, I looked her up on FB, comes to find out, she graduated from Harvard, (I could care less, even though for alot of educated folks, that school holds weight in their minds)…

          I loved the fact that she didn't even casually mentioned… It is not important in the grand scheme of things…

          And may I add, she was just all around good natured person… (and she did buy me dinner)

        • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

          LOL. Please. If someone flat out ASKS me where I went to school, I'm telling them. I'm not playing dumb for some dude.

          If we're having a general conversation and it doesn't come up, it doesn't come up. I'm not sure why where you went to school would come up in a conversation about career ambitions. I'd like to be a world-renowned vocal artist. What does my degree from Yale in English have to do with that? I don't think her not answering that was being evasive at all.

          But, if I said I wanted to be a junior analyst at Benson, Bailey & Banks, and you were like, "I hear you have to go to a top-tier college to even get an interview", then I'd enlighten you.

          But she sounds like an idiot for buying you dinner.

        • Adonis

          @Kat

          It was not a date dinner… And she basically forced me to say yes. I’ll leave it at that.

        • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

          I don't know what this means.

        • Teflon Mom

          Girl, neither does he. Smile and nod, then walk away slooooowly….

        • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

          It means it would have been awkward as hell for me to say NO…

          It was more business, than romantic…

          Love Tef's comment

    • http://twitter.com/inomallday @inomallday

      It goes both ways, though, unfortunately – and, to some extent to a more ridiculous degree on the male side. I've heard guys say stuff, like " I've never been in jail" or "I don't have any kids" like I'm supposed to drop my draws off the basis of that alone. So what? Neither have I. Why is this an accomplishment.

      But on the degree point, from my experiences the people that boast the most about their various degrees and other accoutrements of high esteems they've collected along the way tend to have gotten the least out of them. Like, did you just get the degree to say you got it at every occasion possible or are you constructively using it to further yourself as an individual?

  • Beef Bacon

    SMH. I am sad that Slim can even write about this. Did anyone listen to the Steve Harvey show this morning? The strawberry letter was about this very thing! How women are selling themselves short—easy booty was what Tommy and Steve called it. I know some women are going to be like, well I like having choices, I should be able to do what I want screw what men think….if that is what you believe, stick with it then…don't mind me I am just ranting.

    Now, I am not saying that a woman should not be in control of her destiny. However, I am saying that since women got this if you can't beat em join em attitude, things have gotten worse for women. While we thought we would be able to be all free with our bodies as men are, we find out the hard way—we can't. Don't misunderstand this as me saying that men should not be WAY more responsible with their choices…apples oranges. Although they are both fruit, they are different fruit.

    Women cannot and should not based how they should act on what they see men do. How often has it really worked? I mean it's not something you need a advance degree to see. Men are wired totally different than women.

    I think people in general have become so desensitized to right and wrong. This person justifies doing something crazy because the next person is doing it. I know it was prophseised that in the last days the world would be full of selfish heathens but dang….its WICKED out here to say the least.

    Where's the personal accountability? Why can't a brother just say, no sister, I respect you too much to prematurely have s#x with you because that may taint something that could potentially be greater. Or a brother saying no sister, I don't want to sleep with you cause you know what at the end of the day you are not a woman I would EVER consider begin with long term, so I will save you and me future drama and keep it moving.

    Too much like right though I guess. Men in history have been taken down/out by their CHOICE of women. I guess the men of today are different?

    • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

      "…since women got this if you can't beat em join em attitude, things have gotten worse for women. "

      I agree, but the pressure is high.

    • http://www.therealslimjackson.com Slim Jackson

      "Women cannot and should not based how they should act on what they see men do. How often has it really worked? I mean it's not something you need a advance degree to see. Men are wired totally different than women."

      I found it interesting that you said this. Not because you've said anything to indicate you think differently, but because I see so much floating around out there from women that convey opposite thoughts. I've been saying this for a minute, but it gets discounted because of the whole "you're a man" thing. I wish people got that two wrongs don't make a right and that exercise a "freedom" just for the sake of exercising a freedom doesn't solve anything in the long run. Well, at least not when it comes to this topic.
      My recent post Plain Truth: Why You Shouldn’t Put Bloggers on Pedestals

  • DeKeLa

    "Spoiled", "Lazy", "work harder", "willing to work"…. etc. etc.

    Has it occured to any of the women here, that it may be a slim modicum of an infinitestimal chance… when the moon aligns with the sun every 34 years…

    That you are NOT that special? And the women who we deem special, we are willing to play the game?

    I'm from NYC, and there are over 9M ppl, meaning there are alot more average people, so if you was a 8 in Kentucky, you are a 2 over here.

    I'm all for self-worth, but keep it real, if a dude is an attractive guy (looks, finances, educated, upper tier) why would he put work for someone he considere equal or less his level?

    • Hugh Jazz

      And to build on that point, even if you're an 8 or higher, what makes you think there aren't other eights, nines and tens out there? Especially in a city of 9 million people? Surely if you're an eight and found that man attractive, other women who are eights will find him attractive also.

      • Beef Bacon

        That's fine if you feel there are people on your level or better that you can bed down. So why then Mr. I am so fine, even lay down with the lesser than? You are giving what you consider quality goods to someone you don't even feel worthy of your time? This is not the normal thought process of someone that sees themselves of "special". Special people treat their bodies special as well right?

        The point here is if your are not willing to play the game for THAT woman, why even take what she is offering. What does that say about you? That's why the Dollar Stores stay winning…just because its a dollar does not mean you have to buy it. You don't even need it or want it.

        • Hugh Jazz

          Beef Bacon: "So why then Mr. I am so fine, even lay down with the lesser than?"

          Because it's $ex with an attractive woman. A man's not going to turn down $ex with Beyonce-look-alike because she's not Paula Patton. Beyonce is good enough.

          "The point here is if your are not willing to play the game for THAT woman, why even take what she is offering. What does that say about you?"

          It says I want $ex and can get it, and I'm not looking to settle down right now anyway.

          NOTE: before someone gets all hysterical, "I" doesn't refer to me in particular, this is just the mindset of a young man before he is ready to settle down.

        • Beef Bacon

          "Because it's $ex with an attractive woman."

          Seriously trying to understand….what exactly does this men int he mind of most men?

        • Hugh Jazz

          "Seriously trying to understand….what exactly does this men int he mind of most men?"

          It means if a man isn't looking for a serious relationship, then a woman he has $ex with doesn't have to be "serious relationship" material, and doesn't have to be a cover model.

          If you are on a highway and get a flat tire, a spare tire will work to get you where you need to go. That spare may be full-sized or not, but the point is it was never meant to be permanent anyway. It serves a function: to get you where you need to go. When you are ready to buy new tires, then you'll look for quality.

          In other words, look for a man that's looking to invest in new tires. Stop dealing with men on the side of the road with their car jacked up in the air.

        • Beef Bacon

          So in the mind if the man that views women as tools/object (tire, spare or otherwise), at what point does he begin to look at a woman as another person?

          Wouldn't this view eventually negatively affect his relationship with the woman he wants to be with permanently? I mean after doing something for SO long, is not easy to just stop a habit. Even new tires get worn, so what do you do pull the spare back out…NOW I GET IT! lol

        • Hugh Jazz

          No, not quite. Since several women have came to this same erroneous conclusion, I'll address this is a separate comment.

        • GirlSixx

          Hugh–

          I love the way you put it down!!!!

          Damn.

        • Hugh Jazz

          I love it when a woman tells me they love the way I put it down!

          Why is it when I read that "Damn", I heard that part in Jill Scott's So Gone?

        • DeKeLa

          Men like sex, men love sex with attractive women. It is really that simple.

          No theory, blogpost or dissertation needed.

        • Hugh Jazz

          Leave it to the youngins to explain what I was saying in much fewer words. I really need to learn to be more succinct. Belated New Year's resolution.

        • DeKeLa

          Because for most men, my value and self worth isn't tied to my sexual need. My money, time and social expectations, requires me to be around people who I deem worthy.

          It's the reason why so many women are complaining about guys only wanting sex, and not wanting to be around and do other things with them.

          I buy at the dollar store for the exact reason it exist. It's cheap and it serves a need for certain Items. Just because I can spend more, doesn't mean I should or have to, unless I choose to.

        • Beef Bacon

          So….If I understand correctly….

          Your 'want' of $ex override typical human emotions of compassion and sympathy for your fellow woman. Even if you are aware that the woman expects more, your desire somehow allows you to get your needs met despite knowing there could be potential negative consequences later.

          "Because for most men, my value and self worth isn't tied to my sexual need."

          So your p#nis is truly a separate entity? You can chop it off and your self worth/value won't be affected at all? Even if you somehow procreate or get an STD, will that affect your value, self worth?

        • DeKeLa

          See, I was previously explaning my rationale, and you are responding with negativity to my responses because you may not like my word selection?

          IF you are trying to get understanding, I will help explain. IF you are looking to ridicule my responses. Have a good one.

        • Beef Bacon

          I am not responding with negativity, you just don't like MY word selection. This is how I talk De Ke La, you should see that in other comments. Don't be offended….join me in this discussion without the heart on your sleeve.

      • http://youreratchet.blogspot.com Young Heaux

        Y'all are so harsh with it. Everyone is so completely detached from their emotions these days, damn. I'm attractive as shit, but I'm also a human being. And I'm a woman and I think every woman (and man too) should be treated as if they're worth something, because they are. It's not about being special, but can we remember that we're all people, with lives and personalities and something to bring to the table.
        And no I'm not being naive or tryna get metta world peace on y'all, but men be talking crazy about dating and women sometimes. Like we're all going to die one day, its not that serious that you gotta be hard and emotionless about every "bitch" 24/7. But whatever.
        My recent post Awkward Black Intern

    • DeKeLa

      My second point to all of these comments is I know I am a good man and so do other men.

      What are you doing to spark my interest and keep me wanting to learn more about you. I work the same if not more hours than you, have the same # of degrees and have a stable set of friends.

      Why are you entitiled to put me or any man through hoops, dinners, woo-ing you, etc. Just to get to know you or to build something?

      Y'all wanted equal rights and fair dating? welp them the breaks..

      • Muze

        see. this. this is the conversation that NY men have. lol. lawd.
        My recent post two sweaty dollars

        • DeKeLa

          LOL, better to understand the mindframe from a dude than the "Ni&&az ain't sh!t" brigade.

          The reality of big city dating, is that it doesn't become impossible for women, just more inconvenient, but for guys it becomes easier to meet more women and improve the winning ratio.

        • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

          I think I will put it right here…

          When you are a "Winner"/alpha male, you have your pick of the litter in the dating scene… But if you are a "anti-winner" or anywhere near that… No dice…

          It is the alpha/ out of your league chasing of men from women, that make it easier for a few (hundred thousand) men…

      • http://blackgirlmd.wordpress.com blackgirlmd

        wow, that's an attitude that will keep you single or attracting broke down insecure women, mon frere. women who know their worth are not gonna sit around trying to prove it to you.
        My recent post Cheers to the Frickin Wknd

        • http://twitter.com/kjnetic King Jordan

          Not to sound like a broken record, but if your prove yourselves…why should we?
          *in general*
          Is this part of the social contract that men have to ‘put in work’ and ‘prove themselves’?

          *just asking*

        • DeKeLa

          that's alot of assumptions,but I'm laughing about how innacurate it is, so its cool.

          Here is your sentence:

          "women who know their worth are not gonna sit around trying to prove it to you"

          now if we flip it:

          "Men who know their worth are not gonna sit around trying to prove it to you. "

          In your opinion, only one of these sentences is correct, and therein lies the problem.

        • Hugh Jazz

          "women who know their worth are not gonna sit around trying to prove it to you"
          "Men who know their worth are not gonna sit around trying to prove it to you. "

          In your opinion, only one of these sentences is correct, and therein lies the problem.

          Again, you stated what I've been saying in much fewer words.

        • cynicaloptmst81

          As a woman, I completely co -sign this message.

        • LTL Defy

          Have truer words every been spoken on SBM?

      • TheTravelingType

        What are you doing to spark my interest and keep me wanting to learn more about you. I work the same if not more hours than you, have the same # of degrees and have a stable set of friends.

        I agree with this right here. You have to know you set yourself apart.

      • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

        LMAO @ "them the breaks"

        iSeeWhatYouDidThere

        This is clearly an issue man and women will never see eye to eye on. Women apparently want men to treat them better than they allow men to treat them; whereas, men are perfectly content treating you how you allow us to treat you. What's funny, is the same man can be disrespectful towards one woman and respectful towards another because one allows it and the other doesnt. On the flip, the woman who is disrespected will let all men disrespect her – then blame them for doing so.

        *eats popcorn*
        My recent post A Selfish Man

        • Adonis

          Love this comment!!!

        • GirlSixx

          +1

        • Teflon Mom

          We're >here< on that one WIM. In a larger context, yes, we should all be striving to be the best person we should be, period. But we're human, and we mess up. Having a person lay down in front of you and write "doormat" on their forehead is a temptation.

        • Mr. SD

          Great point sir! Carry on

        • bellatrice1

          If we all just followed the golden rule, there would be no problem. "Do unto others you would have them do unto you (or your daughter, mother or sister for that matter). It seems like that's all women are trying to convey. Why would you treat a woman with less than compassion and respect just because you can or because she allows you to because she doesn't have any self-worth? There is no way a man who takes advantage of others people's weakenesses will EVER be considered a good man, even if he treats the woman he chooses to marry like GOLD. A good man is a good man.

          Check out the article which states that Jay-Z will no longer be using the B-word now that his daughter has been born. He doesn't want his daughter being mistreated and called out of her name like he has done to so many women for so many years. Men like this having baby girls is God's karma.

          My recent post Men are from Venus, Women are from Venus

        • Beef Bacon

          This is NICE!

        • WisdomIsMisery

          I truly hope I've misunderstood this paragraph because if not…Check out the article which states that Jay-Z will no longer be using the B-word now that his daughter has been born. He doesn't want his daughter being mistreated and called out of her name like he has done to so many women for so many years. Men like this having baby girls is God's karma.

          Wow that is ignorant. Jay-Z called women bitches for 42 years and now because he vows not to use the word anymore only after having a daughter he's the role model for men everywhere? I can't even bring myself to L-O-L at that.

          Anyway, the golden rule is like pursuing perfection. It's a nice goal to shoot for but WIM lives in reality. If you want to live in a fantasy world more power to you. Tell the unicorns I said hello.

        • bellatrice1

          @Wis – I think you misunderstood me. I referenced the article to say that only AFTER men do women however they do them, they have an epiphany (or a daughter) and realize it's wrong and try to "change their ways," but then it's too late.

          Unfortunately, our children often pay for our mistakes, so regardless of the fact that Jay-Z will no longer use the B-word, more than likely his daughter will reap what he has sowed. The same goes for men who selfishly manipulate, use or discard women with no regard for their feelings.

          Secondly, the fact that you think that following the golden rule is pursuing perfection speaks VOLUMES. It is not a difficult thing to do, treating people how you want to be treated. But, go ahead and continue to "do you." Just know that all of your actions have consequences. Best
          My recent post Dear TT: My Friend’s Man Hit On Me

        • Naija

          I think his point, which is similar to what I said moments ago, is that there will never be a time when "we all" follow the golden rule. Thus, people need to factor in that reality and act accordingly. But I could be wrong.

        • WisdomIsMisery

          +1

        • http://youreratchet.blogspot.com Young Heaux

          Why would you disrespect someone because you can? That's the logic I don't understand. I can probably disrespect a lot of people, mainly people with lower self esteem, but I wouldn't feel good about that. Do you feel good when disrespecting someone? I say you because you made it seem like all men do this (dis/respect certain women). Not tryna be accusatory, I just don't get it. Seems like a lot of men have a chip on their shoulder, but maybe y'all are just sociopaths.
          My recent post Awkward Black Intern

      • Ms. Smart

        "I work the same if not more hours than you, have the same # of degrees and have a stable set of friends."

        Interesting. I've repeated been told and seen that men 35+ don't judge women on the same stuff that women use to judge men. Therefore, women should stop trying to attract men on resume accomplishments (and compete with them), and just be sure their ability and willingness to be the things men want (this varies but usually includes something about support with a hint of traditional values–even though it's taboo to come right out and say that). I guess this is kinda like me not getting moist over a dude who tells me how great of a cook and cleaner he is. Eh.

    • Smilez_920

      listen there are'nt to many guys in nyc that look like a ten in the body or face neither to be real NYC and most big cities are full of average looking people who can dress their buts off, and for lack of a better word have SWAG (i hate that word no man over 18 should use it to describe themselves to me)

      "I'm all for self-worth, but keep it real, if a dude is an attractive guy (looks, finances, educated, upper tier) why would he put work for someone he considere equal or less his level?"

      Again if he's so great he shouldnt be messing with someone not on his level or he's thirst for pu$$Y and second even the ones on his level he does'nt he feels work is required unless the woman sets the standard.

      • DeKeLa

        You just described men with a word, that you don't want men using to descibe themselves? Interesting.

        How old are you Smilez_920 (no shots, im really curious from reading your responses)

        Again, for men (and women) we can seperate the one we humping, from the one we loving. Just because a 6 is banging a 3, doesn't mean the 6 will settle for any occasion other than the horizontal mambo with the 3.

        • Smilez_920

          1) I said for lack of a better word, (I also used it b/c I feel like I hear a lot of men and women use it when they describe what they like in a mand or woman or what not especially in NYC) I just said I didn't like the word or atleast it being used over and and over and over

          2) (n0shots= really means all shots fired but its cool lol ) Im 21

        • DeKeLa

          It's all good. You reminded me of some friends I have in the Bronx. #shotsfired

          I'm just in a good typing mood today.

        • Smilez_920

          was it the Fordham Road example I'm not from the Bronx but I catch the 4 train over there so I've witnessed some things

      • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

        Men's looks are a young woman's fascination…. But swag & resources rules for men…

    • http://twitter.com/kjnetic King Jordan

      Just a note…

      Nyc has approximately 8.5 million people, that doesn’t count folks in the suburbs.
      Keeping in mind that in the last census, 26% of the population was black, and 71% of the general population was over 21, if those stats stay the same…
      We’re All a bunch of small fishys in the atlantic.

    • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

      Everyone should think they're worth working for, whether they be a 1 or a 10. Don't let them trick you into thinking you're nothing special.

  • Naija

    This ties into the discussion that some of us were having with Gia yesterday. The amount of work you demand + respect you command will dictate how you are treated by a potential partner. The downside for women living in NY and other big cities is that the men are accustomed to receiving special treatment and can/will easily bypass them, but that's no reason to lower your standards. Quality over quantity, always.

    • Mr. SD

      I gotta admit, i respect a women that makes me work a lil bit

      • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

        I was just having a conversation with a young arab woman 20 minutes ago about this blogpost…

        Let's just say, her POV was very refreshing & it is nice to see a woman that comes from a good culture…

        I lost all desire to get into her goodies… It felt like a karmic situation

      • Naija

        And the thing is, making a potential partner work for your affection does not mean putting him through unnecessary hoops. I understand the reason why a lot of women are frustrated, because I agree that people should have an operational moral code that is independent of how others allow us to treat them. Nonetheless, I think the more important issue is women collectively valuing themselves beyond the barest minimum that a lot of men are getting by with. If he is continuously breaking appointments, missing calls, ignoring texts, etc., do not entertain him. We can continue bemoaning the lack of desirable behaviours in men, but it would be more effective to address what we can control: our standards.

  • http://www.twitter.com/inomallday Shamira

    Been a while since I posted…*cracks commenter knuckles.

    I agree whole heartedly on this. With my job, I split my time between NY and DC, and I see a whole lot of this tomfoolery in different places. It's been said time and time again, but men will do what you let them get away with – if you let them get the cookies without much effort. Well…that's on you. I've had to have this conversation with my friends (and sometimes myself) at times. I think that at some point we get so caught up on companionship (especially come the winter months) that we don't realize that we're failing to demand the respect we deserve.

    Call me a traditionalist, but if a man invites you to "chill at the crib and watch a movie or something"…um, that's not a date. And if that's all you started doing when you started "talking" I highly doubt its going to get better. Lo an behold it's a year and a half later and you still don't have a title – and you're sitting on your hands wondering where things went wrong.

    I remember when my current boo and I first started talking, my friends were so surprised when he took my number, said he would hit me up, and actually called the next day. It's sad that its not the exception and not the standard.

    Long story short, you really have to demand the respect you believe you deserve in these concrete jungle streets, or you'll be treated with barely more consideration than a sock drawer. And yes, some men won't want to deal with it because of the availability of the easy road, but hopefully you'll find one that is willing to rise to the challenge.

    **sidenote: i'm actually a fan of chilling at the crib/couch cuddle time…just not in the initial courtship**

    • Slim Jackson

      Welcome back.

      **men can skip this part**

      I'm the Sultan of Cuddles so I'm all about the couch time

      **men can read this part**

      But that's not my idea of a first date. I don't need people I barely know having my address and all that jazz. They at least gotta pass the axe murderer test. First couple meet ups should definitely be out and about.
      My recent post Plain Truth: Why You Shouldn’t Put Bloggers on Pedestals

      • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jermaine-spradley/a-millennial-manifesto-jobs_b_956053.html Most

        Nah, I didn't just read Sultan of Cuddles … that did not just happen.

        • http://twitter.com/inomallday @inomallday

          let him bask in his cuddle royalty, Most. haha

          A lot of guys underestimate the power of effective cuddling…i'm just saying, a well-timed and well-executed cuddle session can flip the script from "i'm too tired" to "…well, i'll just sleep in." lol

      • http://twitter.com/kjnetic King Jordan

        Sultan of cuddles?

        *alerts the fellas

        #IfYouSeeSomething #SaySomething

    • http://twitter.com/NYCNeef @NYCNeef

      "chill at the crib and watch a movie or something"…um, that's not a date. And if that's all you started doing when you started "talking" I highly doubt its going to get better. Lo an behold it's a year and a half later and you still don't have a title – and you're sitting on your hands wondering where things went wrong."

      To your point that is a preference. To be honest dating is expensive (at least in New York ) and not saying that you are not worth it, but if I choose to do something that is intimate and not traditional why does that mean I am not working? How about we try out a recipe together and then watch a movie? The time spent with someone is the most important part of a date 1st or 100th. If being at someone's house the first time you hang out throws up red flags then that is cool. But don't think he is throwing you in the friends with benefits zone.

      The whole "you still won't have a title a year later" sounds so crazy. So if he doesn't announce you to his friends and or your friends he doesn't care about you? You are saying that you NEED some confirmation that he likes you as much as you like him [which should be held in a man's actions, because i can call every girl i speak to my girlfriend to appease her but it will be a lie) or you know you are wasting your time? I understand. But i think a lot of women put the notion out there that "this better go somewhere because i can't just be dating you to enjoy your company". I feel like woman turn a date into a serious 10-year relationship plan and just want to be with someone because you'll have 1-up on the thirsty girls looking for a man.

      Again i see your point and agree that if you feel uncomfortable "chilling" for your first date then ok. But please don't make it seem like I am disrespecting you.

    • http://twitter.com/sanwells105 @sanwells105

      "Call me a traditionalist, but if a man invites you to "chill at the crib and watch a movie or something"…um, that's not a date"

  • http://www.urbanplushproject.com urbanplushproject

    With so many ppl "looking" for love It's amazing that few are able to find it…to cultivate it. Are ppl really interested in loving or conquering? Surely they've gotta know that u can only have one at the expense of the other.

  • http://twitter.com/MsTADOWW @MsTADOWW

    Lol I've experienced the best and worst of both worlds. I was raised in New York but lived in a Podunk town in Pennsylvania for several years. Where I lived people only move to once they have a family and fifty-leven kids – not when they're single. So, it was slim pickins in regard to dating. I came back to NYC for school and really noticed the difference in men. Sure there were tons more men – but the quality is crap. I came to NY with my whole "smile at everyone who looks your way, talk to strangers if they try to talk to you" thing because its what we do back in PA. I had to give that up quick though – the creeps were taking advantage of my niceness. "Ayo ma – SEXYYYY!" gets you nowhere so I had to turn into one of the many sourpuss females on the streets so men will leave me alone. Being only 22, I date a lot and I definitely see the lack of effort from guys. They promptly get cut off. Like forreal. I'm not beat for any guy not willing to put in work. I just cut off a guy I was talking to for quite some time because he wasn't putting enough effort in. BUGGIN. Honestly, I think in NYC the problem is there are a lot of 'average, or not so cute" women and a good helping of bad chicks roaming the streets so the average chicks have to do the ever frickin most to snag the seemingly worthwhile dudes before the next average chick or heavens forbid…a bad chick gets him. But let me keep it 100 because I have been there..having sex be4 time (a month is too early for me) just to keep a dude who i thought was a good catch just because i knew if i wasnt doing it he'd find someone else to. Of course, I've grown out of this mind state, but it took time and a reevaluation of what I wanted.

  • Lioness Rising

    I moved back to NYC this summer after graduation and I'm getting to know the city as a single adult.

    1. NYC> Boston anyday. Boston was okay for school but I think it would be hard to meet young black professionals once you graduate. I would think that would make it easier for men…

    2. This post made me rethink the things I've done in the city. But up until now I haven't been interested in a guy long term, which affected how I interacted with him and how much I let him get away with. I hate to think I was ruining another woman's chance for a long term relationship…

  • Muze

    i've definitely noticed the stark difference in behavior of women and men since i've moved to NY. it's astounding actually. the NY man's mentality is "you have to compete" and the woman's mentality is "i have to do whatever to win."

    …but if a man has that mentality… is he really worth it? a LOT of inflated egos walking around NYC. a whole lot. i was flabbergasted. but then i noticed how aggressive the women are, and then i understood. a man shows up at a place, looks half-decent, and he's nearly flanked with women almost immediately. it's unlike anything i've ever seen.

    i don't think i've ever asked a man out, pursued a man… nawl. but i see it all the time here.
    My recent post two sweaty dollars

  • It's a New Day

    Women don't like dating in NYC because they actually have to DO SOMETHING to attract quality men. NYC challenges the convention of a woman sitting around waiting on prince charming who is willing to jump through hoops to prove his worthiness. No thanks. I work for a paycheck. I work for my body. I don't also want to have to work to get to know someone. You either want to get to know me as well, or you don't. I'm not going to work to convince you that I'm worthy of something I'm not convinced is worthy of my time.

    • DeKeLa

      Church.

    • Smilez_920

      It’s not about women not putting in work it seems like women are putting in all the effort. What you said can apply to both sexes so maybe in the case of big cities it’s just that the ppl who are willing to put in effort aren’t meeting ppl just like them. I mean Millions of ppl in NYC your bound to run into a few jerks and few nice ones.

    • trueprototype

      I don't really agree. I agree that some women should be more open minded. But SOOO many are that they've bended on allll the rules. I think thats the point of his post.

  • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

    1.) Do you think there’s a difference in the way men and women approach dating in big cities like New York?

    YES. Ridiculously different and in a VERY undesirable way.

    2.) Are men lazier?

    YES. And full of entitlement when they don't bring nearly as much to the table in most cases. So many city women are fighting for scraps (not that some dudes don't have good in them, but they're not OFFERING it).

    3.) Are women more aggressive?

    YES, but that's a consequence of men being LAZY (see above), and the desperation of the fact that none of the "good" men are actually ACTING like good women and pursuing something serious with the THOUSANDS of worthwhile women in the city.

    4.) Is it the same in smaller cities?

    NO. I'm from Austin, TX and I can tell you I enjoyed being ASKED for my number, ASKED out on dates, and generally spoken to with respect. Granted, I was only in Austin until I graduated high school, and being a late bloomer, I didn't date much while there, but the way men expressed even INTEREST was different, more respectful, not full of entitlement. They THOUGHT about you before asking you out, thought about a way to approach you. It also wasn't until I came to the east coast that anyone even SUGGESTED "friends with benefits". All my friends back home are either MARRIED, LIVING WITH SOMEONE or in LONG-TERM RELATIONSHIPS on the road to the latter two options.

    5.) How about where you are today?

    I'm in NYC. EVERY SINGLE RELATIONSHIP I had in NYC was extremely problematic, except the one I'm currently in. Seriously, I was beginning to get mad at God because I thought I wasn't getting back the love I was sending out into the universe and instead was bestowing it upon men who didn't earn it and never would deserve it. I bought into the F buddy hype for a little over a year and was of course disappointed when none of them found me to be so amazing that they actually wanted to BE with me. Then I decided I would be bitter and shut down emotionally, but a month or so later, I decided I wouldn't even think about it, because it was negative energy I didn't need. I wasn't getting love, but I was getting TONS of awesome things and maybe that was enough. And then I met my guy, ON MY BIRTHDAY. I'm cautiously enjoying what seems too good to be true. God made up for all this BS with an AWESOME 27th birthday present. :)

    6.) Why do you think there are such significant differences?

    For all the reasons you listed in your post.

  • http://dreamcatcher3606.blogspot.com/ DayDream

    And finally my question has been answered. Thank you Mr. Jackson! I recently decided to take a break from dating because I have noticed that men have no problems sharing that they like me, but after that nothing would take place. No phone calls (just a barrage of texts), no making of plans to hang out, absolutely nothing. I agree that desperation (here in NYC) is at an all time high amongst women and as a result men don't have to do anything but show up. Therefor I will be taking a break. Check out my journey to meet the man of my dreams at Not-so-Patiently Waiting For His Love Blog http://dreamcatcher3606.blogspot.com/
    My recent post Real (Marriage) Talk with KeKe &amp; Chubb Rock *Episode 2*

  • http://blackgirlmd.wordpress.com blackgirlmd

    I might need to take a visit down to NYC and see what the heck is going on out there. This ish is crazy.
    My recent post Cheers to the Frickin Wknd

  • http://panamaenrique.wordpress.com Malik

    Nice to see that women are still following the carrot.

  • http://twitter.com/tylerg_thomas @tylerg_thomas

    I meant behavior like that makes me wonder how can two people have a sustainable relationship.

  • Slim Jackson

    Great comments so far today. I'm noticing a lot of comments about women approaching men, probably because I mentioned it in the post. I don't think the problem is who speaks first as much as how it's done. I like when women smile, say hello, make a quick comment or convo and keep it moving. It says "Hey, she's friendly. I need to circle back and have a longer chat with her."

    Where as on other occasions, it's "Hey, blah blah blah blah. You should call me." and I've said in my head "But I haven't even conveyed interest yet…"

    My recent post Plain Truth: Why You Shouldn’t Put Bloggers on Pedestals

    • reluctantsocialite

      " I don't think the problem is who speaks first as much as how it's done. I like when women smile, say hello, make a quick comment or convo and keep it moving. It says "Hey, she's friendly. I need to circle back and have a longer chat with her."

      I can agree with this somewhat, although I guess I wasn't necessarily thinking that a woman smiling and saying hello would be an "approach". I do do this sometimes… but I just look at that as breaking the ice. I guess when I say approach, I mean the part when you express interest in getting to know the person and ask for contact information. I still prefer a man to do that part…

  • Humble_One

    Interesting. I've heard this story several times. Same story from women in NY, DMV, ATL, and Los Angeles. I'm not in these places but from what I understand is that the blue-collar dudes are the direct opposite of the guys that don't put in work. I've ranted on the internet before about men "p***y speculating" which is men artificially raising the price of p***y. Well in NYC, DMV, ATL, etc. women are "d**k speculating". These cities attract men/women that are statistically GREAT on paper. These men fit the mold of what you want. You say it all the time. So why should they have to jump over hurdles? You want them and feel you deserve them. I don't agree with men behaving like this but women created this problem to a certain degree. You want to change this? Level the playing field of men on your radar. Men will look at the hood chic or professional chic as long as she's tight. I'm not saying he will wife or seriously date the hood chic if he is a professional. But he is not going to turn the hood chic down over the professional one if they're equally attractive. He'll get it in with both and act accordingly to each situation.

  • TheTravelingType

    Good article. While I agree dating in larger cities is probably easier for guys I personally am not phased.
    I have met plenty of guys here that are very frustrated because even though they been winning when it comes to a quick lay now that they are ready to settle down its a whole other ball game. Numbers aren't as fun if you are not meeting quality compatible people. You can scream 15 to 1 ratios but how many of those 15 do you think you will really want to settle down with??
    When you get to the point where you are ready to settle down these sort of things hold no weight. Finding a compatible mate takes on a whole other perspective.

  • Hugh Jazz

    From the comment section, a lot of women got things twisted. Women are commenting like men who aren't immediately settling down are worshipping Satan, kicking kittens and stealing money out of the Salvation Army buckets.

    Too many women want what they want, when they want, and how they want it. Just because NOW you're ready for commitment and the particular man you want isn't, that doesn't mean it is something wrong with him. Just because a man isn't ready to settle down:

    - It doesn't mean he has low standards.
    - It doesn't mean he isn't a good, decent man.
    - It doesn't mean he took advantage of you.
    - It doesn't mean he views you as an object.
    - It doesn't have compassion or sympathy.

    Remember there was a time you weren't ready to settle down. It's like Whitney Houston's character on Waiting to Exhale. She was laying and playing the whole movie, but then gets all self-righteous at the end because she was ready for commitment.

    • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

      You're right. Just because a man isn't ready to settle down (and I believe women are speaking about men doing dirt to women, not just that they aren't "ready"), doesn't mean any of those things, but it DOES mean that if you ARE ready, he's not the dude for you. :)

      Wasn't there a post on this recently? To a man, right woman + wrong time = wrong woman. I think women should use this equation too and stop trying to wait a dude out who you'll resent for making you do so and, more often than not, will move on to a NEW woman by the time he IS ready.

      • Hugh Jazz

        Yes, doing dirt is a different thing entirely. There will always be arseholes out there.

        Cosign 100%. If a person isn't ready to commit and they told you that, they didn't do you wrong if you tried to make them commit with $ex.

      • Mr. SD

        " right woman + wrong time = wrong woman " thats good math!

    • Humble_One

      Exactly. You hit the nail on the head with this though

      "Too many women want what they want, when they want, and how they want it."

      What I am seeing is "I'm cute, I'm this, I'm that" and I shouldn't have to deal with this. Without taking in account that some of the men they want are thinking the same thing of themselves. lol. These guys will come around….. hopefully.

    • http://twitter.com/inomallday @inomallday

      I don't know how not being ready to settle down and treating someone with common decency are one and the same. Just because you don't want to settle down doesn't mean you shouldn't put a modicum of effort into interacting with someone your intrigued by, romantic or otherwise. It has nothing to do with looks or pursuing a relationship, really…but the whole new male mentality of diva dudes that have declared themselves "catches" (which to be fair, wasn't totally self imposed…ladies have been stroking their egos far too long) and seem to find it onerous to work towards having a connection with anybody.

      • Hugh Jazz

        The conversation in the comments morphed from fast life in the Big City to men mistreating women. Doing wrong is just doing wrong, but that wasn't what this post was originally about. Some female commenters equated "guys only looking for $ex" into "men of poor character" and "men taking advantage of women". I had to correct that mindset.

        I agree with you 100% on the diva dude mentality, but women need to do to diva dudes what men do to diva women. Stop feeding their ego and let it die of starvation. When thirsty women stop throwing themselves at the dude that's a six and give him the attention he deserves, his behavior will fall in line. Until then, that guy who you say is a six IS a nine, because the female attention he gets says he is.

        • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

          Something about "only looking for sex", though. I don't know. Maybe it's not inherently bad if practiced with willing partners, but all too often, because many women would prefer MORE than sex, to do such an arrangement involves deception. And, some women SAY they're OK with it, but really aren't, and then there's heartbreak.

          It's unrealistic, I know, but wasn't MASTURBATION created to satisfy your sexual urges when you didn't want the fuss of dealing with a person beyond sex? I mean, it was meant so if you were single or WANTED to be single because you weren't ready, you could still have an orgasm.

          Now people are using PEOPLE like they used to use their right hand and wondering why problems occur. No, nothing inherently wrong with wanting nothing more than sex, but the logistics lead to so much negativity most of the time, which is why "only wanting sex" is linked with not being a good person, at least IMO.

        • Hugh Jazz

          "Something about "only looking for sex", though. I don't know. Maybe it's not inherently bad if practiced with willing partners, but all too often, because many women would prefer MORE than sex, to do such an arrangement involves deception."

          And there's the rub. Is it the man being deceitful, or a woman being naive?

          If a man is stating his intentions upfront, there is no deceit. If he is not, then he is using women. If a woman wants more than sex but that's all the man said he was willing to give, then the onus is on her.

        • Beef Bacon

          Hugh how many men really just say,"I only want sex from you, there is no chance of us EVER having a future, sex only OK…do you understand?" Check yes or no.

          Men come with thier A game and tell a woman all sorts of things to get in the panties. Therein lies the problem. It is one thing for a woman to hear that and say OK and if she gets hurts later on, onus on her…I agree.

          But more often than not, some men pour the gravy thick in order to get what he want "sex only". If a woman is genuinely interested in you, she is going to WANT to trust that what you say to her is said with GOOD intentions not an ulterior motive.

          I see why trust is earned….shady people mean you know good.

        • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

          I've had several men say that to me. Not in those words, but the sentiment was there.

          THEN, they started acting all boyfriend-y, because I'm awesome, and make people feel at ease and ish.

          And then, noticing their boyfriend behavior, I start acting girlfriend-y.

          And then I broach the subject: "So, am I sensing this correctly? Are you interested in more?"

          And all of a sudden dude wants to act like he doesn't know HOW IN THE WORLD I got that idea. Like I misconstrued his sleeping over, cuddling, checking on me and ish (when he didn't do these things in the beginning), when CLEARLY, he would do them for a homeless person on the street.

          You're right. That's totally my bad, bro. GTFOH.

        • Teflon Mom

          I swear that for some men the goal is not the panties…it's the "caught up" feelings. Whatever it is you're holding out from them is what constitutes "winning". If I say "Sure we can get busy tonight, but I only cook for men I care about" there is a bamma who will stay around until he gets some lasagna then bounce with a full stomach and a smirk.

        • TheTravelingType

          Teflon what you just said is real. Folks want what they cant have.

        • Hugh Jazz

          Beef Bacon: "Hugh how many men really just say,"I only want sex from you, there is no chance of us EVER having a future, sex only OK…do you understand?" Check yes or no."

          Often. Not in those words, but they say it. But some women people hear what they want.

          I agree with the rest of your comment. Which is why women need to stop giving it up after the second date. If a woman knows some men would hurt her, why would she give it up to a man she only saw two or three times in person? Or am I crazy here?

        • Beef Bacon

          You are not crazy Hugh. I must deal with different dudes cause back in my dating days, dudes NEVER approached me like yeah its just sex…even IF that was the motive. Now, I on the other hand had to wipe a few tears away when my FwB took my kind gestures as me wanting something more serious. From that ONE lesson, I learned that you can play with people's feeling intentionally and unintentionally.

          I learned that you cannot control how others think/feel and therefore you have to control your actions towards that person to lessen any foreseeable blows. Isn't that the point anyway, to learn that the golden rule apply in every aspect of life. Now what kind woman would I be if just continued to grab dudes hearts even IF I just wanted sex? Shady.

        • jevioso

          Asking women not to give it up to a man after the second date, is like asking men not to have sex with fat/ugly women, when they're desperate. Women want men in their lives, they want the strength and confidence that comes from a man, even if they're gay they still want that masculine aura and energy around them. Sometimes women get desperate and will take one night of masculine energy over no nights at all and are willing to sacrifice some p*ssy for it. Sometimes dudes just get desperate too and are willing to do a Precious – who am I to tell them no? I don't have a plethora of fine looking hoes to lend to strangers.

          Lol, when you realize women are just as effd up as men are (even though they have the BOX), just differently, you begin to see them for what they really are and you almost feel a genuine empathy towards them.

        • http://twitter.com/inomallday @inomallday

          Well then I think we see relatively eye to eye. everybody has a right to want what they want . It's just the manner in which its handled these days really upset me.

          And yes, we need to start demanding the respect we claim we deserve. No one's denying that. But why does the onus have to totally be on us? I mean, if you wouldn't steal something from a store because it's wrong, regardless of whether or not someone(or some camera/sensor) is around to check you for it, right? I think we were born with consciences for a reason – why can't we use that when it comes to dealing with the opposite sex? And this problem goes for both genders.

        • Hugh Jazz

          I don't think we disagree really at all. It's a dirty game out there.

          Although I don't quite agree with your analogy here. If a man only offers $ex and a woman that wants more takes that offer, that's not stealing. That is more like giving someone something, then having reservations about giving it to them.

        • monique

          Some female commenters equated "guys only looking for $ex" into "men of poor character"

          A possible reason for that is because men commonly share that same inference when it comes to women.

        • jevioso

          Well, the difference is that a man who is referred to as a "men of poor character", doesn't feel shame for smashing every woman he sees in sight. Whereas women feel shame when they get called out for sleeping with a bunch of dudes, as they should. Women can easily have sex with 20X the people, that a man can (including women), and it's easy for them, thus they deserve no praise for doing it. Lol, it's an abuse of power.

          The same goes for a man and woman having a boxing match. If the man beats a woman in a boxing match, there's nothing special about it, it's much easier for a man to beat up a woman, it's never ever a fair fight. However, if a woman beats up a man, in that same boxing match, she's worthy of praise because what she did isn't easy to do.

        • monique

          . So you're saying if a woman had to put in more effort to obtain sex than there would be no shame in her actions. So why blame us for your decision to make your bodies so accessible, just say no and let's even this playing field today.

        • Jevioso

          No one's blaming you, I mean hoes get sex, they just don't get respect. As for an even playing field, that even playing field is what friendship is. When a guy is your friend, equality exists, but when love and sex are involved, it's a battlefield…and it's been that way from the dawn of time, and it's always

        • monique

          lol, why can't we get a lot sex and the respect.
          I like your statement on how the playing field evens and if you can give me tips on how to be a friends with a man, I am open. I haven't been friends with one since 5th grade. Not date, just friendship.

        • Hugh Jazz

          Hugh: Some female commenters equated "guys only looking for $ex" into "men of poor character"

          monique: A possible reason for that is because men commonly share that same inference when it comes to women.

          First, there are several women, especially career-oriented women, that are only looking for sex as well. Let's drop the facade of women being saints here.

          Second, most men expect that a woman has had a few sex partners at age 25. A man doesn't want the neighborhood h0e, but given that we've been informed that men aren't getting it in as much as it's commonly believed, he hasn't had a ton of partners either.

          Third, women are the gatekeepers of sex. Therefore a man that has charmed his way into having sex with several women have accomplished something of note, while a who let a bunch of charmers have their way with her has not. Which is way a man who has had a lot of sex is seen as desirable and a woman who has is seen as cheap.

        • monique

          Yes, there are woman looking for sex and in the same instance are harshly judge as having poor character for it. The women were just applying the same standards to men but you say that can be so.

          I used to work in the public health field and cases of STIs among young men particularly black males was rampant. One young man even stated that the test of his prowess was to pursuade young women to have not just have sex with him but unprotected at that. He thought all of the women were being exclusive to him so there wasn't a need for condoms. He was wrong. His infection was just bacterial and cureable but unfortunately one day it may not be. AIDS is real and it does not care about increasing your level of desirability. Men please find a new measurement for manhood. No one's life or therefore quality of it should be compromise for just a pat on the back. As you stated it doesn't serve women, but the way I see it does not really serve anyone.

        • monique

          Why can't the measurement of man be the ability to satisfy and please one woman, which is not easy?

        • Hugh Jazz

          "Why can't the measurement of man be the ability to satisfy and please one woman, which is not easy?"

          It is. But as the old saying goes, a woman is and a man must become. I was saying women get frustrated because they can't get men who aren't ready to settle down to settle down. But there are several men who are, and several women turned those men down in favor of a man they desired more who didn't want to settle down.

          I don't necessarily disagree with much of what you said, it was just looking at the extremes and not the norms. We aren't talking about low-life losers, as in the STI-carrier in your comment. That's not a typical male behavior, that is just ignorant.

          "The women were just applying the same standards to men but you say that can be so."

          It's not the same standard. Do you really want that level of equality in romantic matters? Do you want it to be the norm that women have to do most of the approaching, women should start doing the same chivalrous acts expected of men, and women should be proposing to men?

        • monique

          But there are several men who are, and several women turned those men down in favor of a man they desired more who didn't want to settle down.

          sounds very possible in this case the woman must become…
          Our individuality should be what defines us not our sexuality.

          Equality, I think both sex share some some level of struggle in the dating matters not just.one. No one is exempt from rejection.

        • monique

          I will show you the other side of the coin. Do you prefer to sit in passivity and wait for someone to approach you. Gauge the level of subtly needed to not seem aggressive but available and approachable. Now every man's mind is different, you may offended someone while attracted others. You will have to figure all this out in moments of sheer quietness because you don't want to overtalk. Also decifer in that brief encounter his motivation for approaching you. Is his sole interest sex or for something more? Is he lying? Does he know he's lying? Does he view me as disposable or long term? Will he have the courage to tell me his interest is just sex, or will he lead me on and than disappear ? Atleast, when you approach you have in mind what the goal is; whereas, we have to figure it out. Rejection for us is later than sooner that's all.
          When did making a phone call, opening doors, or paying for a dinner or two become some major feat to beheld?
          You should feel privileged and empowered your actions are mostly proactive and definitive.

        • monique

          I don't know what you constitute a low life, but I learned to never judge the patients that we treated at the clinic only educate. It's unfortunate that this young person was brought up believing that his pursuit for desirability and acknowledgment from peers may cost him his life and/ or fertility.

        • monique

          STIs are more common than not. It's not an extreme, but the norm. It's one of the realites that you encounter when you become sexuality active regardless of your mindset. The newly deflowered virgin is just as much at risk as the experience person. STI's can be transmitted even with correct condom usage , which disturbed my patients the most.

        • Hugh Jazz

          "STIs are more common than not. It's not an extreme, but the norm."

          The point was STIs aren't common. I was referring to the young man's mindset that persuading women to have unprotected sex with his diseased self is not the norm and is ignorant.

        • monique

          My point was the issue having multiple partners was unwise even if condoms were involved.

        • Hugh Jazz

          monique: "But there are several men who are, and several women turned those men down in favor of a man they desired more who didn't want to settle down."

          And that man would be a fool. If I want to get married and I turn down a down-to-earth woman who is ready to be a wife and mother in favor of the spunky party girl, I can't complain about the obvious and inevitable consequences.

          "Our individuality should be what defines us not our sexuality."

          And we should have world peace and everyone should be rich. In other words, ain't none of those things happening. Complain away, but a woman that had an excessive number of sexual partners will be still viewed less desirable. Complaining that men find a woman with a high bodycount to be less desirable is no different than women finding short men or less-endowed men as less desirable.

        • monique

          You do realize that first quote came from you, right?

          To the second quote, well they also said slaves would never be free, schools would never be integrated, and women would remain properties of their husband…. It may sound like a complaint to those who are unaffected, but this will never be a discouragement to those who are.
          I may be in a minority in my beliefs but just the way I see things. Best of luck

        • monique

          well, the body count is an issue because of the physical risks that one may encounter. My point as a whole and my experience working in the public health field is that it is not desireable for anyone male or female to have multiple partners. It's a threat to your life or quality of it. It's 2012, acquiring consensual sex is not difficult so there is no need for it to hold any significance. Being responsible of yourself and others is desireable.

          In truth this is a conversation to be held with other women, but the input was delightful. Why many women choose not to hold men to the same standards they are held to is not my understanding. Sometimes, I feel like its this power struggle between the sexes when it should be unity. It would be more productive, I think, if we were quick to understand than to debate. Yes, I know I sound idealistic. I just don't believe that in most cases in order for me to win someone has to lose that is all. In other words, I experiencing the same reality as you should never take anything away from you.

        • monique

          Oh, back to the first quote, I said in response to your quote that maybe if the man is then the lady must become.

        • monique

          back to the first quote, you must have not read my response to it. I said in that case the man is, so the lady must become. You debated yourself that is so cute.

    • DeKeLa

      Hugh,

      If you are ever in NYC, I got you for the night. Maybe we can take our average looks, low standard-having, woman-objectifying and kitten-kicking selves to a bar and pull some 9s or 10s and have them buy us rounds of drink. We can only take the 3s and 4s home, you know, for sex.

      • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

        You joke, like this doesn't happen 24/7.

        • reluctantsocialite

          Lol… yup, seems like chicks buy the drinks in big cities. They do that down here too… its weird.

        • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

          If you're waiting for a drink from me, you'll stay thirsty all night. I'll buy my drinks; you can buy yours. Serious dating is another story altogether, but I have never in my life bought a dude I was just chatting with at a bar a drink (or dinner, as I saw upthread) and I won't start now.

        • 2mques

          What separates you from all those other girls in NYC who buy drinks for men?

        • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

          Uh, I DON'T buy drinks for men, and they DO?

          To each her own, but that's not my style and that's starting things off on the wrong foot. Read into that whatever you will.

      • Hugh Jazz

        I need to make a NY trip. I've never been. But considering we can only get threes and fours, I don't feel so bad.

      • http://twitter.com/kjnetic King Jordan

        I got you and hugh on a round of drinks…
        I can chat about my ivy league pedigree to every other woman..maybe that will help!

    • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

      Chica Chica Bow Wow

    • jevioso

      What makes a man commit to a woman is her level of submissiveness. Commitment and Submission are the ying and yang of relationships: one can't truly exist without the other. Lots of men think they can get a girl to submit without them committing, but the only way for that to be a reality (long term) is for that woman to have no desires of her own, basically the man would have to be the center of her existence – she would have to be a stalker. The same goes with women, they want a man to commit and don't want to submit; they want a man not to lead, or lead only when they deem it so – they want a p*ssy whipped guy in reality or to be dominatrices who can remove the chains when they want and change roles.

      Nature isn't a respecter of individuals' emotions, fantasies or delusions of grandeur. If you want monogamy, there are rules in play that have to be obeyed and there are consequences if they aren't met. A man must commit and a woman must submit. Our ancestors were wise enough to follow this simple requirement of nature and they had successful marriages/relationships, we refuse and try to look for grey areas and then wonder why we live in constant disappointment.

  • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jermaine-spradley/a-millennial-manifesto-jobs_b_956053.html Most

    As it relates to his ability to attract and facilitate the type of relationship he currently desires with a woman, there are a few types of men. There are winners, there are regular joe's and there are anti-winners.

    Winners win regardless of ratio and region. Put a winner anywhere whatever he's looking for at the time, be it a slew of random encounters, a friend with benefits, or a long term partner, and he'll probably be able to make that happen. Some guys just have it. The current ratio situation across the country, particularly in big cities makes these guys seem like nephilim. It's like when Barry Bonds started using steroids. He was already an alltime great, but steroids made him the greatest – for a time.

    Then there are the regular joes. Right now, a lot of regular joes are living the winners life – especially in big cities where they can take advantage of favorable ratios. Can you really knock them though? I mean as long as they maintain a certain level of humility and aren't running around devouring the hearts of women everywhere, who wouldn't like to win. These guys are like average athletes who become all-stars by using steroids. Everyone knows you're not that great, and everyone knows that when order is restored, you'll return to your natural place in the pecking order. In the meantime though, have your fun.

    Then there are the anti-winners. These are guys who under normal circumstances, would be allergic to any kind of winning. Guys who always have problems creating the kind of relationship they desire with the women they desire. If you're this type of guy, being in a big city and doing what you can to take advantage of ratios probably helps you, but I doubt it really changes your life. These are like guys who would be playing double A ball in scranton if not for steroids.

    I say all that to say, I don't think the whole ratio thing, and being in a big city affects guys on either end of the spectrum that much. It's not like, life changing. If you're a winner you're a winner and if you're not you're not. The guys who it really affects are the guys in the middle. It's the regular joes who are experiencing the huge leaps in their success with women. They're going from, 'I'm just happy to be here' to 'I'm that n*gga.'

    And it's those guys in whom you see the biggest change in attitude as well. Winners been winning, so they act like they've been there before. Anti-winners still ain't winning that much, so when they do, they're genuinely happy and satisfied. The regular joes tho… they make 3 all star games in a row and start talking Hall of Fame… GOAT … all that. They get drunk on their new found awesomeness. Those are the guys you gotta watch out for. If they lose sight of who they are, they must be avoided at all costs.

    • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

      Hammer Time!!!

    • Muze

      leave it to Most to write a post within a post. lol

      nah but this actually makes a lot of sense. i still think that if ALL women raised the bar, men would have no choice but to try harder to "win."

      i just don't think men should be the ones being "caught." and women should be the ones chasing. it's like an upside down backwards world here.
      My recent post The Randomness: Hair, Juicing, and Awesome Documentaries

      • http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jermaine-spradley/a-millennial-manifesto-jobs_b_956053.html Most

        I usually don't like dropping comments this long anymore, but Slim got me to thinking…

        • Bree

          That was Real Talk Most…Cosign.

      • Naija

        lol I don't know how I missed his post earlier, but I feel like he stole my job.

        I agree with this and some other posts you made throughout the day. It isn't realistic for all women to do so, of course, but if even a great majority were to, things would change drastically.

  • CleanUpMan

    It's funny you mentioned the entitlement concerns you've heard about from women. I think the difficulties that a lot of women have with dating are due to their entitlement issues. I guess it's not really a gender-specific problem.

  • bellatrice1

    Funny thing is, the majority of the population, including many of our parents were not virgins when they married, which means women weren't necessarily waiting for the commitment of marriage to give it up even back then.
    The good women who require more are being ditched for the loosey gooseys, so to change this it would require a collective effort from ALL women to make men work for it. This is not going to happen. I truly believe that, aside from my behavior, the man God intended for me will recognize my value and put a ring on it. There is someone for everyone. Girls like Kim Kardashian and the chick so on Basketball Wives are getting married every day.
    My recent post Dear TT: My Friend’s Man Hit On Me

    • DeKeLa

      "Funny thing is, the majority of the population, including many of our parents were not virgins when they married, which means women weren't necessarily waiting for the commitment of marriage to give it up even back then"

      I was wondering why everybody think things were so much different before our lifetime? Women have been tricking since biblical time, and men have been whoring themselves since Eve took that rib.

      It's all the same story, just new characters.

  • Ms. Smart

    Ha thanks. But uh, it's just genetics.

  • http://fromraewithlove.com/ Rae

    Awesome post. I will say it lends good reason for why I have had so much let's call it eventful dating here in DC. After I had been here for some years, I started to hear the married sisters say this wasn't the right city to be in if you wanted to get married or have a family. Not sure if I can agree. At any rate, your points are key. I also agree we as women are often holding the card. If I have something you want, and I know it's value (key) it's up to me to set how high the bar is or the amount of effort and follow through for us to proceed and move forward. I will say being in DC one of the things I've noticed is this overarching display of entitlement and lack of follow through. It 's made me walk away more than I care to even discuss.

    Again, awesome post.
    My recent post What Happens When Your Worst Fears are Realized?

  • bellatrice1

    Last thing I will say:

    For you men/boys who grew up sans father and without proper guidance, the test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching. If I knew I could rob a bank today and get away with it, the true test of my character is whether I would do it. I would not.

    How you treat those who are kind to you, or who are in your eyes "worthy" of such treatment (10s, wifeys, etc) does not make you a man of good character. It is how you treat homeless people, hos and waiters that determines whether you are indeed a "good" man.

    Stop using the fact that women allow you to use them as an excuse to in fact, use them. Be a man of character and integrity for your own good, not because someone forces you to. I'm done.
    My recent post Men are from Venus, Women are from Venus

    • Slim Jackson

      "the test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching."

      I think this goes for any and everybody, not just men who grew up sans father and without proper guidance…which is subjective. I referenced character in the post a similar reason that you pointed out here and why I spoke in the past tense. It's easy to get lost in the mix. And when we do, we're each on our own schedule in terms of when we snap out of it or decide we're done playing in the sun.
      My recent post Plain Truth: Why You Shouldn’t Put Bloggers on Pedestals

      • bellatrice1

        Yes, this does apply to everyone, but I mentioned it in reference to all the men here who have said that they treat women a certain way because the women allow them to.

        If you respect women, the fact that one woman would allow you to call her a bitch, shouldn't in turn lead to you calling her a bitch. Her behavior or lack of self worth does not determine your character or how you should treat her or any other woman for that matter.

        When I speak of a "good" man, I am not talking about a man who is successful, good looking, blah blah blah. A "good" man embodies great character, is humble and a host of other things MOST men lack, and that I will not list here.

        Treat people how you want to be treated. But, men don't seem to get that concept until they get played or get their hearts broken.
        My recent post Men are from Venus, Women are from Venus

      • Bree

        I agree Slim…..part of having good character and moral fiber is maturity. Just because folks are "aging" chronologically does Not mean they are "growing up" and maturing. There are some folks who never ever "grow up."

    • Hugh Jazz

      "How you treat those who are kind to you, or who are in your eyes "worthy" of such treatment (10s, wifeys, etc) does not make you a man of good character. Stop using the fact that women allow you to use them as an excuse to in fact, use them. Be a man of character and integrity for your own good, not because someone forces you to. I'm done."

      This was a repeated theme today, and maybe I'm just not getting it because I'm not a woman. Where does character even come into the equation? If two people are friends with benefits, and that was established upfront, where is the "character" thing coming from? No one is getting used. Men beguiling women is one thing, but are you saying if a man and woman have mutually-agreed upon casual $ex, the man has low character?

      Now it could mean that you're discussing men that mistreated you in the past, and we're just discussing different subjects. But the post was about big city dating and casual $ex, so that was the angle I was speaking from (I can't speak for anyone else).

      • bellatrice1

        @Hugh – A discussion about "Big City Dating," in YOUR thread and most of the comments posted, became a discussion about what women allow men to do and how we allow them to treat us, why we should keep our goodies to ourselves, yada yada. Many men, including yourself, suggested that if women stopped allowing certain behavior from men, we would have more success finding the right mate. I am basically saying regardless of what we allow, a man is going to be who he is. If he's a ho, he will continue to screw countless women; if he's a commitment phobe, he probably WON'T commit; if he is a liar, he will lie. It's just annoying how men always find a way to place the blame on women for failed relationships and other matters of the heart. It's as though, if we're single (and don't want to be), it's our fault.

        Casual sex was never mentioned in any of the comments, so I'm not sure why you felt I was equating casual sex with low character.

        I have actually had relatively positive dating experiences dating here in LA. But, now that I am ready to settle down, I make it clear in the beginning that I am looking for something serious, but rather than bowing out because that is not what they are looking for, they waste your time, pretending to want the same thing. Just be honest about your intentions. Stringing women along, "hitting and running" and the like is wrong. Also, another commenter mentioned that a lot of me don't have good examples of how to treat women, so I was just giving them a little food for thought.

        As to the actual topic, I agree. Dating in LA sucks because there are waaay too many beautiful people, men and women. The key, for women who want to settle down, is to find like-minded men. Men who are ACTIVELY looking for a wife and who make it clear that they want to be married or in a serious relationship. This is why online dating relationships are so successful.

        My recent post Men are from Venus, Women are from Venus

        • Hugh Jazz

          bellatrice1: "It's just annoying how men always find a way to place the blame on women for failed relationships and other matters of the heart."

          I was actually with you until here. Some people are just jerks. There are no guarantees in love, or just about anything else in life. But you can screen some of the crap. It is absolutely true that women and men would have MORE success by stopping certain behavior, but it doesn't guarantee anything. It improves your odds.

          "It's as though, if we're single (and don't want to be), it's our fault."

          This was never implied. But some of the comments were getting way out of pocket with the assumption guys don't have good character because feelings got hurt.

          "The key, for women who want to settle down, is to find like-minded men. Men who are ACTIVELY looking for a wife and who make it clear that they want to be married or in a serious relationship."

          Exactly.

    • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

      I believe in doing what works to get p*ssy &/or commitment…

      To be a certain way in life… People need incentives…

      Women in this Western culture, DO NOT incentivize men to be "good" and in many ways discourage it, and in many way reward men for being "bad"… Now, we can explore why that is from many angles… But right here, right now, this is what is going on from the decent/good/subtance BMs POV

      Again, I am of the persuasion that WOMEN cannot solve their own problems… But since women have a little bit of a brain, I would like y'all to TWO & TWO together for ONCE in your life…

      Good Day

      SSTTE

      • bellatrice1

        I was simply articulating women's frustrations when it comes to men and dating, not seeking advice. We shouldn't have to give grown men incentives to be "good" like they're dogs who need to go to obedience school and act right so they can get Scooby snacks. That's exactly my point. If I have to give him a reason to be "good," then he's not the one for me.

        Fortunately, I've never had to deal with a guy like this.

        My recent post Men are from Venus, Women are from Venus

  • CPT Callamity

    Only thing I got from this article is that I should've listened to advice long time ago and did the NYC thing for a few years. Thing that kept me from it was the hopes of having a good salary and a decent place to live. Here in D.C. I'm rather burned out on approaching or trying anything so I just roll solo. I think if you look, speak, have a certain status, it's quite easy to get numbers and dates. If you're joe regular it's a lot harder and there is a lot of proving yourself that you have to do.

  • trueprototype

    This is quite disheartening honestly. The fact that you would consider going out of state to look for something serious is frankly a part of the problem.

    I have some of these struggles dating, but men never want to do better it seems. Its as if they NEED the women to make it hard, then we're accused of being bougie, etc etc. The kickback is amazing.

  • http://naturallydreaded.wordpress.com NIAnaturally

    One more reason to stay in Raleigh…
    Nice post, Slim.
    My recent post My Love Is Like…

  • http://twitter.com/AleceO @AleceO

    Ouch. This is the most accurate description of NYC dating I've ever read! I can't argue with a single thing in this post. But I want to inject a little bit hope:

    Men have it easy here and that cannot be denied. (What's the point of hunting on a full stomach?) It frustrates me to no end but to be honest, it's not all that bad here in NYC…

    I've been here for 2 years and I do meet great guys, most are just trying to hook up but few are genuinely great guys who are not corrupted by the city yet or are just plain tired of the hook-up culture. (They exist!)

    However sometimes I feel conflicted: should I give in-"well, it is what it is and let me get what I can get"-or stand strong because damnit, I am freakin' worth it! It's easy to fall into the former in the big city because we feel like we can't catch a break sometimes. So when we see something easy (or free, lawd knows we like free!!) we take full advantage. I can’t blame men for it. But when a girl decides to have some self-respect and you call yourself a so-called good** guy, recognize it, respect it, and keep it moving.

    **What is a good guy, by the way? Did this site have post about it? Please provide me a link!

    My recent post Shout. Shout. Let It All Out!

    • Slim Jackson

      Closest post I can think of is this one, which looks at the other side of things. I talk about good guys in here.
      http://www.singleblackmale.org/2011/11/10/why-nic

      My recent post Plain Truth: Why You Shouldn’t Put Bloggers on Pedestals

      • http://twitter.com/AleceO @AleceO

        Thanks! Reading now…

    • Bree

      Alece good men are Everywhere…..they just might not look like Boris, Morris, or Lance or "black" or might be making minimum wage so they get passed by.
      Women need to think about what they define as "good men."

      • Naija

        Good men are everywhere, true. It's equally true that some people need to readjust their definitions. However, I always pause when I see things telling women that they need to broaden their horizons [-------------------------------------] this wide. If a woman has advanced degrees and big plans for her personal and professional lives, the odds of her having much in common with a minimum wage-earning worker – fabulous man or no – are minimal. The differences can and will likely still persist with a high earning blue collar worker, so things aren't as simple as people sometimes make them out to be.

      • http://twitter.com/AleceO @AleceO

        I've never been one of those women who gets caught up on the physical like that. I don't ever want to turn down a guy who genuinely loves me because he's short or not attractive by some people's standard. My father is a complete nerd and is not the smoothest guy in world. But my mom saw past his awkwardness and saw that he would make a great husband and father (they've been happily married for almost 31 years)

        Everyone's idea of a "good man" is different. For me, it's not about looks but it's about character. A good man does not have to announce that he's a good man or a nice guy; it shows in the way he carries himself and interacts with people.

  • Trunk874

    About this “courting” thing…

  • J_Bklyn

    As I read this post (to which I agree on most of the points made) it got me to thinking about a brilliant film (albeit the characters ended up getting married), Blue Valentine, I had recently seen. The main character said something interesting as he set pondering love, mere hours before he met the woman he would eventually marry…

    “I feel like men are more romantic than women. When we get married we marry one girl. Cause we’re Resistant the whole way until we meet one girl and we think I’d be an idiot if I didn’t marry this girl she’s so great. But it seems like girls get to a place where they just kinda pick the best option…‘Oh he’s got a good job.’ I mean they spend their whole life looking for Prince Charming and then they marry the guy who’s got a good job and is gonna stick around.” – Dean

    ..bottom line ..MEN CHOOSE ..WOMEN SETTLE. ..why??

    The character in Blue Valentine hit it on the head perfectly, women spend so much time and energy either waiting for Mr. Right or hunting for Mr. Right that in the end they’re left in panic mode. “Uh-oh, I’m 28 years old and I’m not married!” **DANGER DANGER DANGER**. So what happens? They settle. They settle big time. But Why?

    (This likely explains the entire mentality of this "NYC dating scene")

    Now a Man will meet a chick, go crazy for her, and know that he’ll marry her if he survives long enough to save his money for a wedding ring. This thing about “Men don’t commit, men want to play games” is total BULLSHIT, when the right girl comes along—everything shuts down!

  • http://twitter.com/sanwells105 @sanwells105

    Dunno if my reply showed up, but this kills me!

  • spiderlgs

    These comments make it seem like pursuing someone because you are interested in them for primarily sexual reasons is inherently wrong… And I don't get it… I'm single.. you're single… If you take my text messages and a date or two as us down the road of commitment and don't ask otherwise or communicate that you are in the market for more… I'm sorry. I mean I like to court for quality (hopefully) sex, as much as I like to court for a girlfriend.. it increased the anticipation.. raises the tension.. it's just a part of it. It's rude to call anyone just when you want something.. besides if you are a cool person.. I don't mind treating you to dinner.. and I do think about you throughout the day… but sue me if I'm more interested in your b00bs than your brains…

    I courted a girl for almost a year because she made me work.. and I mean WORK for it… but in the meantime… I was definitely sleeping with women who didn't require that much work.. and I didn't see myself as disrespecting them… sometimes relationships (sexual, emotional, intimate) just don't work out… If you can't give up the goods without having your heart attached… it is ultimately your responsibility to not have sex with someone who has not made a commitment to protect your heart as well.

  • Paul B.

    Here's the irony: It's said that all we men want to do is f***, well that's the stereotype anyway. I'm not saying sex is the only thing we want, but I'm not going to lie and act like we're all eunuchs either. But since so many women are taking advantage of their own sexual liberation and trying to do what the men they've encountered do, they've created an unintended consequence: removing the incentive to actually court and date. Why should a man go above and beyond for a woman who just wants to f**k like him? It would be unsound to court a woman (which is the kind of stuff you'd do for a woman that you want more than just a nut with) that just wants to be a cut buddy or friends with benefits. Women with wife potential will get a different set of benefits and perks than just a woman who's trying to f**k.

    Be honest with yourself first and what you're doing, and what category you may fall in with whatever man you're dealing with, and measure what you're doing against what you claim you want to have. If the two don't match, then make changes with you or take what you can get and go on with your business.

    • Bree

      So Paul do men differentiate between a woman who is "wifey material" and a woman who wants to fu**?
      I thought most times they were one in the same??? If they aren't they should be……cause a lot of men cheat on their wives because the wives aren't having sex with them at all or it's very very sparingly. I would think a man would want a woman who was "wifey material" and wanted to fu** just like him??????

      • Paul B

        Surprisingly, in quite a few cases, men thought they were marrying women they could experience the full benefits of marriage with, but that dried up after the ring. “I do” became “I don’t feel like it”. Yes, some men have slacked off in the romance department, that’s for sure, but some women get caught up in the facts of life and forget to be a wife. I understand a little better for the women who didn’t have kids before marriage or even sex before marriage, but the ones who were channeling their inner pr0n star before, and still had bills, still had a job to go to, what’s the excuse?

        Fair or not, men are held to a lower standard in terms of morals and sexual conduct, so when a man who behaves as such meets a woman who does things at that same level or standard like him, sure, he’ll get down with her because it’s fun to do and that’s where his mind is. But I guarantee you that when he wants more (because his mentality has changed), chicks like that aren’t even a possibility for taking that next jump with him. Trust me, no man wants to marry himself or what he used to be, he will not court himself or what he used to be either.n

        • monique

          Fair or not, men are held to a lower standard in terms of morals and sexual conduct.

          SMH, so because I am the woman I have have to marry the whore, while you the chase morally correct upstanding individual. So what would be my incentive to be a wife if the man I marry has a past that even himself could not respect. It's just as embrassing to have a relationship with a man who views is body on the same level as a public restroom. Women have decided to do as you put it "act like men" because the outcome nevertheless is the same you getting a man fair or not of low moral and sexual conduct. Ladies, sorry their a no winner when it comes to finding your proper pairing, so alimony I guess would be the consolation.

        • 2mques

          Women want to act like men nowadays, because they would rather have meaningless sex, than have to degrade themselves to the level of men and have to develop skills in order to get men to give them what they want out of relationships. To me it's reflective of how pathetic women really view us as men, that they would rather be alone than do what we have to do just to get a girl to pull down her panties. At the same time though, this is why a man who gets a lot of women has every right to be cocky and arrogant – it's not like the women are willing to do what he is to get what he wants out of the opposite sex.

        • monique

          You are say:
          To me it's reflective of how pathetic women really view us as men, that they would rather be alone than do what we have to do just to get a girl to pull down her panties.

          Question," What kind of work would you suggest we do get the boxers?"

        • 2mques

          You're not looking for boxers…you're looking for love and commitment. What do you need to do to get that? Well…ask a gay dude, you'll get a better answer, or try trial and error and develop a system.

        • monique

          So are you saying by design that men are looking for sex and women are looking for relationships? If so, I am sorry but your horizon is very narrow and outdated. You said women are not making the kinds of efforts that men do when it comes to pursuing what they want. Well if that man wants to solely get laid and I want a relationshp than obviously we are at an impass. The two are so opposite from one another that there is no middle ground. Unfortunately to bridge that divide men and women have lied to temporary get want they so desire only to have it quickly leave as fast as it came. Also the questions I posed wasnt meant to be taken literally but more that men make their bodies accessible, what effort is really needed. Not all men but some and for those of you who are selective you are a man after my own heart.

        • 2mques

          Sigh…

          Outdated…kind of like chivalry right?

          Men do want sex and they do want relationships, they just want sex first. If it wasn't for the desire to have sex, why would men approach you…because of your personality? Maybe it's your aura?

          I don't blame you for saying what you're saying though, men lie to women so much about who we are because we want ass, we don't make you have to step your game and your minds up to understand us better, which would lead to better relationships. That's why truth be told, I'm just saying what I say because guys have to say it. It might not taste good, but it is well needed medicine.

        • monique

          So why are the women who approach sex first and than relationship later considered not committment material or unmarriable? If a woman approached you saying, " I'm accustomed to sleeping with guys first and then seeing what happens later.." She'd get tossed with a quickness.

        • 2mques

          The same reason why women don't go around hunting for metrosexuals or trying to convert gay men…why do you want to be with the opposite sex, if the only thing opposite is the genitalia?

          I mean granted she'll receive some d*ck though she just won't likely get a relationship out of the dude. To me this is the fairness of life: A man could be the best guy in the world, give a woman everything she wants, write all the smooth ballads and poems, but still not get sex, which he wants from a woman.

          A woman can give a man everything he wants, she can suck his d*ck everyday, bake him cakes, hell stay a virgin for most of her life, and she still won't get that man to love her the way she wants.

          Men accept the possibility of this rejection and say eff it, "I still want some ass!" Women sit down and write a new list of demands and standards when they get rejected by men then they wonder why we get a lot more out of them, than they get out of us.

        • monique

          It doesn't require much effort to pursue sex as it does a relationship so lets not make these feats even seem compariable.

          Men accept the possibility of this rejection and say eff it, "I still want some ass!" Women sit down and write a new list of demands and standards when they get rejected by men then they wonder why we get a lot more out of them, than they get out of us.

          Because as you have stated earlier that men would go as far as need be for sex even offer false promises like a interest in a relationship. Women feel slighted because, she trusted and believe that your interest were the same as hers when in actuality it was just a ploy to get sex. How can you ask a person to be okay with being deceived?

        • 2mques

          For a woman who has a vagina, of course it's easy lol, and that's your problem, you were born with a vagina, and you should thank God, that you don't have to deal with what we have to deal with.

          As for lying, women are willing to lie as well to get what they want. I mean women lie constantly about how many men they've had sex with because they don't want to be rejected, and men lie all the time because they don't want to be rejected. You can play victim for your sex, but women are no better when it comes to lying. The only thing is, men lie more to more women.

          Personally, I'll give you this, if men were more accepting of the fact that women aren't princesses, and they are trash just like men are, then I think we'd all be better for it. Problem is women want to be treated like princesses and queens but don't want to live up to the standards that entails.

        • monique

          So women who don't want to have sex with you are considered princessess or queens? If you are not having as much sex as you would desired, maybe the focus should be withini yourself not outside.

          You had mention something about doing everything and still not getting the results you want from a person, i.e. sex, relationship. All I have to say to that is, "Can you respect a person right to say, no.?"

          I don't view anyone as trash per se or royalty. However, I don't feel the need to elevate myself or lower someone else to establish a common ground.

          Nice chatthing with you.

        • monique

          what would be the incentive to become a wife to a man that has a past that even himself could not respect?

        • Paul B.

          Monique,

          Do what you want to, it's your choice but consider this: The reason a man isn't what he used to be is probably because he learned that isn't what a man is or should be, and it doesn't work therefore he no longer subscribes to being such. When a man finds out that he's living a societal lie, exactly what is there to respect and celebrate about it? He stopped being that person because it didn't work in the grand scheme of things, so he's supposed to pick somebody that represents everything he used to be, but no longer wants a part of that life, or pick somebody that willingly committed that stuff with him? If he realizes that what he was in his past was selfish and manipulative, do you really expect him to pick somebody that is that now, especially when he doesn't have to? Really? Really? Not happening.

        • monique

          You are right, once you know better you do better…but your comment

          " Trust me, no man wants to marry himself or what he used to be, he will not court himself or what he used to be either." This is the point my comment was directed to.

          I would embraced the man who didn't sheepishly buy in to the societal lie and dare to be an individual rather than one who chose to and now has reformed. I tend to date men who challenge the status quo rather than live according to them. I like a rebel with a cause.
          Could you see yourself with a reformed selfish, manipulative and promisious woman? Would you consider her to be just as viable option as a woman who aways been of great character and behavior?

        • 2mques

          So you ever dated a guy who was a virgin?

        • monique

          Yes, being a virgin doesn't exempt from being incompatible, its just a preference.

        • 2mques

          How was that? How long did it last? How was the first time?

        • monique

          It was very mentally and emotionally stimulating and fulfilling. He was brought up with the belief that sex was reserved for marriage. So, we never consumated the relationship because I knew that I was not the one intended for him and his the gift of his sexuality was meant for someone else. He taught me that I could never love a man that I didn't respect.

        • Paul B.

          Probably not, then again if I already knew her before, I wouldn't be inclined to trust her especially if we had a prior history and she proved herself to be selfish, manipulative, and promiscuous from the jump.

        • monique

          Paul,
          That was exactly the point that I was trying to make. This is the same dillema that a woman without a past faces when she is pursued or choosen by a man with one. It seems that because I am a woman, I "should" be more dismissive of the very same concern even my male counterpart would have.

        • Paul B.

          No, you do what you want to do and what you feel is in your best interest to make. I'm not going to say what you should and shouldn't dismiss; you have to live with the decision you make, not me. I can't choose for you, just like you can't choose for me or anybody else, which I think has become a source of contention in many circles.

          Some women want to be out here doing what they say men do, knowing already what men are going to say and think about it, but they don't care until it's time to want to get married and start a family. This stuff isn't new to anybody, they make their choice but they can't choose the consequences though.

          Another reality is that women aren't the ones expected to buy a ring, get down on one knee, and potentially risk alimony and child support (as a rule), unlike men. So if society's expectation of what men should do regarding marriage lets men have a possible advantage when it comes to choosing, he'd be a fool to not get what he perceives as the best choice he can make just to make somebody else happy.

  • http://twitter.com/MsB616 @MsB616

    "Maybe one day women will stop letting us write the script" << i'm not fan of this notion that women hold the key to taming a man's behavior..particularly when, collectively, women don't have a shared understanding of what it means to be treated right. I think that the script is a co-authored task. Each person should do their best to uphold their standards. Unfortunately though, when a woman does genuinely and rightfully spells out how she wants to be treated, she's labeled: picky, bougie, not flexible, unrealistic, a b*tch, stuck up, etc. This leads to my next point.

    When men are ready, they are ready. They will do whatever it takes not to f-up. And the truth that no man will admit is that singledom can be lonely…even if every night it's like the adventures of carmen san diego in your bed. The games are taxing. The happy hours get boring. And the seats at your favorite bar that used to be for you and your crew is now replaced by some other hawks on the prowl.

    • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

      Why do women feel like men are not "under the influence", that he is just "is what he is" & didn't take account on how he got there…

      • monique

        well you would hope that if a person is doing something that doesn't serve himself or others he would stop. However, if he does realize that his behaviors are destructive and does nothing than unfortunately he has chosen to allow his circumstances to define him instead of he defining it. Everyone has come across some form of negativity in their life but its only the exceptional one's that allow it to make them better not worse.

  • monique

    Getting a quanity of women has nothing to do with quality. If, I just want to have sex, I am sure I will have a high number of men interested on the flipside. However, I believe when a man is focused on finding THE ONE, this would not even be an excuse.

  • monique

    Oh, and Jay and Beyonce baby's name Blue Ivy. I wonder if its like a play on his blueprint albums. the baby is like his blueprint 4, the legacy, hence blue iv. just a thought

  • SandtonSisi

    This rings true even down here in Africa!!! I live in Johannesburg which is one probably the most cosmopolitan city in Africa.. maybe Cairo can compete but anyway its a hub of all nationalities here.. I noticed that something was right after being here for about 6 months with my LLB degree, own place, car and working in a top firm that none of this mattered to guys! all they want to know is “when are u giving up the goods?”. I recall meeting a guy who told me he had a gf but he really liked me and wanted to know if we could do something on the side.. SHOCK HORROR.. if we werent on the phone- i would have slapped the Nigerian outta his mouth; but it occurred to me that he must have made this proposition before and got the green light.. otherwise how the fudge would he step up to a girl like me running such a sick game??? Women all over the world are spoiling men and letting them get away with sh8T easily.

    i also agree that no matter what u have- a man will only have a serious relationship when they are good and ready to!!

    • 2mques

      Lol, women always want to eat their cake and have it too. Two things: 1. You want to be individuals, but at the same time you want to be collectivist. 2. You want honesty, but you want it under your own terms.

      Have women ever had a meeting or a discussion on the standards that must be met in order for them to give up some ass? No! If all women had the same standards, there would be nothing that differentiates you or makes you special, and if anything you'd all be interchangeable.

      As for honesty, you should really examine what made you want to slap that Nigerian dude, who had the audacity to tell you the whole truth so help him God. He could have easily lied, in fact, most men would have lied. You can't control the truth, if it comes to you, you say thank God, and you move on. It's quite clear he didn't want to offend you; it's not like he came at you and said; "Hey woman, you have a very big ass, and I would like to have sex with you so I can experience it jiggle up and down." If he had said that, you might have more of a case.

      • Naija

        Definitely not cosigning the last portion. That you have the audacity to propose a side chick position to me – truthfulness notwithstanding – is definitely worthy of a potent side-eye, and I can't fault her for wanting to slap the fool.

        • 2mques

          Why is that rude? (Not to you, but to women in general.)

  • jevioso

    It all comes down to the two words we hate: for men it's commitment, for women it's submission and it's rare in major cities to find people who live fast lives who are willing to give in. Essentially, a society functions well based on the willingness of the women to submit and the men to commit. I wrote more on this on VSB, but I'll just copy and paste the theory I came up with here for my own selfish purposes:

    In order to understand why that word submission is important when it comes to love, you have to have a good understanding of both the male POV on relationships and the female POV on relationships, in addition you have to understand what our natures are. (This is going to be a long, but yet, necessary post to educate the young sistas out there about life, this might end up being my Magnus Opus on relationships)

    Let’s start with women. Women have a biological instinct that makes them search for the best man they can possibly get and keep. Take for instance, me and the R&B singer Maxwell are trying to get with a certain girl, and we’re both offering love, affection, passion, romance etc, and we’re both for real; naturally speaking, if any woman, chooses me over Maxwell, she’s out of her freaking mind. Why? Maxwell is a better man than me in terms of all the things women are looking for in a man. What makes a woman stay with me however, and not chase Maxwell and dedicate her life to doing so, is because she knows she can’t get Maxwell.

    Now guys differ from this, because our biological instinct is different. Unlike women, we aren’t hunting for “the best”, we’re hunting for the most. If a man was given the opportunity to have sex with a Halle Berry in her prime for the rest of his life only, or given the opportunity to have a consistent batch of a 100 women varying in attractiveness for the rest of his life, constantly being replaced by younger women; if that dude chose Halle Berry, he’d be out of his mind as well. However, in reality, most guys would be glad to have a Halle Berry (in terms of beauty) since it’s near impossible to sustain a stable of 100 young women for the rest of their lives, continuously being replaced by younger and hungrier broads who want to make their king happy.

    Funny thing is, looking at our natures: a relationship basically involves a man and a woman who are theoretically out of their mind. Because the woman is attempting to stay with some man that isn’t the best man on the planet and the man is attempting to stay with one woman, when his body is craving hundreds of other women, who are probably better looking than the one he currently has. The only way relationships can survive then is that a man and a woman have to agree to keep their natures in check for their own benefit by offering each other something of value as an incentive.

    The something of value that a man offers a woman is COMMITMENT! He basically says I’m going to stay with you and not go out to chase other women, even though I know I want. I’m going to take cold showers, just so that this relationship can survive. The something of value that a woman offers her man is SUBMISSION. Basically, a woman attaches all her desires for the best man she can get on her man, and lives all her fantasies through her man; even though her nature is inclining her to do the best she can to go find Maxwell and make him fall in love with her.

    Every relationship that fails, fails because either one or both parties don’t feel the need to give that “something of value” to the other. Either the woman submits, but the man doesn’t commit and she ends up feeling abused and unloved. Or, the man commits and the woman doesn’t submit, and the man ends up feeling weak and emasculated. Commitment and Submission are what make love possible in a relationship, without both you’re really in a position of lust, which is what most people don’t understand and think it just has to do with being in a relationship based solely on sex.

    Most black women want a man to commit and want to procrastinate on submitting as long as possible, in other words without knowing it, they want a weak guy who could potentially become a strong guy when they want him to. Unfortunately, they don’t see it that way. Most guys know this and this leads to them overreacting as well, and “maning-up” which leads them to demand submission without commitment, which ultimately leads to a girl feeling like she’s abused and taken for granted.

    In the black community, generally speaking, men and women don’t want to give way, both want one side to provide something of value without a guarantee of them doing the same, and because of that our relationships are predisposed to dysfunction. It’s pretty much like the U.S and Russia during the cold war, with both sides stacking up on nukes out of fear for the other – until one side’s Wall falls down, there will be no peace, and since I’m a man; I’m sorry ladies, it’s going to be your wall, not mine, y’all can play MLK if you want to lol.

    • monique

      If a measurement of a man is based on his need from someone to submit to him rather than being his partner on equal footing we are in for a neverending battle. Also, what man wants to be choosen by default? Maybe the lack of submission is due to the fact that you were not her first choice . MLK did break down some walls though. The most viable option after hearing this approach, is just to be eternal single because it sounds a lot happier.

      • Jevioso

        Everything I wrote in the original statement, was simply due to looking at the world and asking the question what works, and why does it work? I didn't need to do any research or go study thousands of book, all I had to do was listen to what the old people said and did. The man committed to his relationship and the woman submitted to the man, she submitted to the fact that she believed in her man, and she was going to let him take the responsibility of protecting her and her children. Did they argue? Of course. Did they have tough times? Ever hear of the great depression? They went through hell, and yet they stuck together and it's because they accepted the laws of commitment and submission.

        "The most viable option after hearing this approach, is just to be eternal single because it sounds a lot happier."

        Well, look around you, isn't that what everyone is doing? Would you call what women or men are today, happy? I guess my knowledge and respect for history and philosophy, makes me giggle at such perspectives. It's kind of silly, how women still want a man to love them enough where's he's willing to jump in-front of a bullet (chivalry in a nutshell) in order for them to survive, but the thought of submitting to that same man, frustrates a woman? I would say they're hypocrites, but that's unfair, they're just products of the lack of wisdom that exist in our generation today.

        When you read history, when you listen to wisdom from those who have done what you want to do, you understand that the rules never change, and these are the rules we live by, regardless of how superior we feel to those who lived before us. The bible preaches them, our pagan ancestors taught them, our myths and legends warned us of the consequences of not respecting these laws of nature: they were rules needed to maintain order in our society, to keep our civilizations strong. These people might have suffered a lot, they might have had to fight through wars, famine and slavery but because they understood what they were, they were able to persevere. We live in a generation, where men and women have no idea what they are, and feel no need to figure it out because they're too distracted in the technological advancements of their age.

        However, the concept of our society, has completely been lost in the digital age. Look at the consequences of such disregard for ancestral wisdom: we have an epidemic of AIDS and venereal diseases, an epidemic of depression and mental disorders, an epidemic of divorces and poor relationships, an epidemic of single parenthood, an epidemic of nihilism and pessimism; and yet people have the audacity to disregard the wisdom of the past, because it sounds harsh..look around you and ask yourself who's really the one who is unhappy?

        • monique

          People who don't challenge a status quo that doesn't work for them are the ones that aren't happy. Living a life on your terms and accepting the consequences that come with them is the emptiome of happiness. Maybe you can only do what you can but I do what I want but doesn't constitute that I am reckless or without wisdom. The fact that I look at life in choice is what makes me careful, respectuful and yes wise. Those with the power dictate to those without what the rules shall be and more than likely it soley benefits them only while disenfrancising the other. So really challenge certain beliefs, are they are truely meant to benefit you or give you the illusion a control you really don't have. The approach that you mentioned worked for THAT couple, but doesn't mean it will work for everyone else. I don't look at men has all powerful, protecting and knowing, I already have a God. The God of my understanding gives me a choice to submit to his will, so why on earth do I have to go along with the demands to submit by a mere human who is flawed like myself.

        • monique

          Ask yourself, why do you need me, as a woman, to validate your strength? Protection? Why not protect each and forget this need to define position based off of one situation out of many that went well. The helpless need protection and there will be a time in the relationship where you are not going to be the strongest and than does that mean the relationship goes to pot? Or, can I being of the strongest at the time be there for you? Protect you, or is that not in correct order? That doesn't make you lesser or out of balance with nature, it makes you blessed. My sense of self comes from within. A man will never fill what isn't already there and I don't expect myself to do that for him either. However, I am willing to add to what is already there and he the same.

        • monique

          You don't need to be in a relationship to be happy or a whole individual especially if its not the kind of your choosing. Don't confuse your understanding of the inner working of relationship with it being a law, when its just a belief. Bottomline it wasn't the factors of commit or submission, it was two individuals who came together with the intention on making it work and that is what they came up with. I believe the action was neither submisson and commitment but really COMPROMISE. Coming to agreement were both parties not just one benefits.

        • Jevioso

          I'm reading everything that you write, and basically, you're just saying you don't like the word "submission." Unfortunately, everything you're saying that you claim is individualistic, or anti-status quo, is status quo in our generation for women. The idea that there shouldn't be roles, that relationships should be about equality and compromise is status quo today. Look at the blogs, your friends, the people around you, they're living your ideas in reality and look at where we are in terms of relationships today? If what you said was unlikely to be said by most women, your comments would be more credible.

          This is my problem with a lot of women today, I mean look at the ideas and philosophies that you're living by, and ask yourself if they're working for you? If you're like most women, the answer is it isn't working. The purpose of wisdom is to give you direction when what you're currently doing isn't working. Too many women are so caught up in feeling good, that they don't want to accept the possibility that they're wrong and that the right way might be locked in the past.

          Finally, as for the idea of submission, I said what women consider commitment is what men consider submission. I mean a woman wants you to commit to her so she doesn't feel she's wasting her time, and a man wants a woman to submit so he doesn't feel like he's wasting his time. A man doesn't need you to submit, and a woman doesn't need you to commit, but if both do their parts, the relationship will fail, and our generation is proof of that.

          The evidence against your beliefs already exist in reality, just open your eyes and see it.

        • monique

          Action makes words have credibility not necessary a person expressing the words itself. Execution is the key. Alot people express certain views but live very different realities. Case in point, women who claim to be independent, but expect men to pay for all the date. "Independent" women who will use and manipulate a man's interest for monetary gain. That's Dependence to the fullest. Although, she is claiming to be one thing, she executing something entirely different. So don't be misled by a person's conversation, watch their application of it.
          For the sake of productivity, a great deal of submission is needed but from both parties not just one. Commitment is needed from both not just one. The execution of both actions has to be agreed upon by both through compromise.
          However, we have very strong views neither right nor wrong but different. So lets just agree to disagree.

        • jevioso

          lol, there can only be right or wrong…they both can't coexist in reality. However, I can see this isn't going anywhere.

  • http://www.singleblackmale.org Name

    This is just a sample comment that I’ve written

  • cancergirl08

    We all want love. Its just that we use different means to get it and evaluate it.

    "People are made to be loved and things are made to be used. The confusion in this world is that people are used and things are loved."

    (Courtesy of Woyz Almaz Gebreyes)

  • sarahjohansson

    Dating in the city is definitely a different experience, especially having moved here from Europe. Men have completely different expectations and a very different approach. However, I'm not sure I agree that they move on as soon as they don't get the sex they feel entitled to – a lot of them are persistent to a point where I'm at a loss for words… If I can't be bothered to answer your texts, return your phone calls or respond to your emails for a few weeks, just face the fact that you're not getting with this.
    My recent post Rastlös!

    • http://www.therealslimjackson.com Slim Jackson

      Curious to know what it's like in Europe. Never had a chance to ask anybody about the differences.
      My recent post Plain Truth: Why You Shouldn’t Put Bloggers on Pedestals

      • sarahjohansson

        Wow, I just wrote a long eloquent comment and it disappeared. Here's the unstructured rant version:

        Well I can't describe the men's experiences, but entering the NY-dating scene as a woman – the beginning of the culture clash! Obviously men's behavior when pursuing women differs depending on where in Europe you hang out. Having been subject to the efforts of the obnoxious Italian men, the quiet Brits, the anal Germans and the rarely suave Spaniards to mention a few, I was still surprised when moving to New York.

        Add to that, my country of origin being the northern cold of Sweden the contrast is all the more surprising. We are famous for being hard to approach and it is even on a platonic level somewhat hard to get to know new people. Striking up a conversation with a stranger, unless you are at a bar and both under the influence, isn't really seen as "normal" behavior. So datingwise you can meet through one of two channels; at a club where the main purpose is always to find some savory meat for the night or through friends/colleagues where you develop something over time (these are obviously generalizations, but you get the picture). Add to that the fact that "romance" is completely dead. I've lived here for 4 months and I still get surprised everytime a man holds up the door for me. I had never before had a man follow me to the door at the end of a date or offer to put me in a cab to get home safely. A man actually paying for dinner in Sweden, well then we'd have to be engaged for him to put in that kind of effort. Sweden is equal to a point of absurdity.

        Going from that to this city where nothing seems to intimidate the men's perseverance in the pursuit of what they've got their eyes set on; it doesn't matter if you are sweaty and disgusting on your way home from the dance studio, grocery shopping, working, on a completely packed train or even on a date with another man. Let me just say it was an adjustment. However, this agressiveness in their pursuit speaks to the sense of entitlement you talk about in your post.

        Since I am not in any rush to find someone at this point I mostly enjoy the entertainment of this behavior which seems to throw most men off a little bit and have them put some extra effort in, despite me not giving them any form of incentive. I'll get back to you when I've been here for a while and turned into a bitter, jaded woman cursing about the indulging NY-men.
        My recent post Football

  • Hugh Jazz

    "When did making a phone call, opening doors, or paying for a dinner or two become some major feat to beheld?"

    You are missing the forest for the trees. The point is women are complaining that when they are promiscuous, they are viewed as h0es. Then they complain about a lack of chivalry because they want all things to be equal. You can't argue for the same standard and different standards simultaneously.

    "You should feel privileged and empowered your actions are mostly proactive and definitive.

    Atleast, when you approach you have in mind what the goal is; whereas, we have to figure it out."

    I suppose, but a woman's actions are proactive too. A man can only propose, a woman can accept or reject. Just because thinking and strategy is required for accepting and rejecting doesn't mean a woman has no power or privilege. In fact, women have the upper hand.

    • monique

      Yes, I agree a a woman does have the upper hand but only if that man makes his intentions very clear. She would be able to make an informed decision. However, if he does not this brings her to the disadvantage of not really knowing what she's accepting.

  • Ray

    It is what it is…I don't really have any sympathy for the ladies in general. Some are easy and some are not. If u r making a guy chase endlessly, but you are not the total package (or even a good package), then get real. Ladies have it great, especially very attractive women. Dudes from hustlers to lawyers to doctors will all try to holla. In my opinion, dudes are the ones who need to smarten up. And by what I'm reading in this post, it's about time. You wasn't with me shooting in the gym!

  • Ray

    It is what it is…I don't really have any sympathy for the ladies in general. Some are easy and some are not. If u r making a guy chase endlessly, but you are not the total package (or even a good package), then get real. Ladies have it great, especially very attractive women. Dudes from hustlers to lawyers to doctors will all try to holla. Will successful women talk to the broke guy?……In my opinion, dudes are the ones who need to smarten up. And by what I'm reading in this post, it's about time. Sex in 2012, is not what it was in 1994. Trust me, if he really likes you he will put in the work. In my own experiences, I have met many successful women who do what they do and dont rely on men. Therefore, if they want to give him some its their issue and they keep it moving regardless. Women ask for equality but still want to be BBW and BGC…you wasn't with me shooting in the gym!!

  • 24karats

    I've had this exact conversation with two close male friends who pretty much had the same opinion as you. One of them even suggested that I might have to move!

    As disheartening as that was, I will pose to you a question that neither of them had an answer for – and as chunk explained almost verbatim to what I said:

    "Does there EVER come a point when we expect men to hold _themselves_ to a "higher" standard that is _NOT_ based on women's actions/inactions?
    Why, in order for you to be a good, decent man, must I adhere to some outdated set of rules regarding my actions?
    Excuse my french (or don't) but, when the fcuk do men step up and be good men because they simply want/should/need to be and stop using what women are/are not doing as their excuse to be licentious?! "

    Added to that – what am I supposed to do in the meantime? Just keep getting ignored because I won't put out on the first date, or because I want to have a real conversation and not text you while you're watching the game, or because I'm not so hungry for your bs text at 10pm that I forget points 1 and 2. If you have an answer, I'm all ears. So far I've gotten nothing:
    http://occonfessions.wordpress.com/2011/03/27/are

  • msbklyn

    I'm a NYer but i've lived outside the city for years. I've seen a change not just in NY. I see too many women throw themselves at the same guys without a care . I remember back in the day guys would have the confidence to talk to you even if they knew they weren't getting your number. That confidence to go for what you want, was and still is sexy. Nowadays they looking at you like your suppose to approach them. Really. That I don't do.

  • Mstiva

    I live in LA and the thirstiness level of women here is off the charts. My boyfriend lives in NYC so now that I am there frequently I can’t figure out who has it worse. In general east coast women seem to be in a rush to get married and have babies. LA women seem more interested in living comfortably with a man with or without the ring. Anyway my advice to women is to take care of yourself, keep it positive and light and don’t stress to much about finding the “one.” If you’ve ever been out with a desperate guy you know what a turn off doing too much can be!

  • Mstiva

    I live in LA and the thirstiness level of women here is off the charts. My boyfriend lives in NYC so now that I am there frequently I can’t figure out who has it worse. In general east coast women seem to be in a rush to get married and have babies. LA women seem more interested in living comfortably with a man with or without the ring. Anyway my advice to women is to take care of yourself, keep it positive and light and don’t stress to much about finding the “one.” If you’ve ever been out with a desperate guy you know what a turn off doing too much can be! One of the allures of being feminine is discreet strength and an air of mystery. Chasing a man is like smothering your secret weapon with cryptonite.

  • nikki

    Good read and It's about time a man actually said those golden words" Maybe one day women will stop letting us write the script". Listen up women!

  • http://www.thebrooklyngoodguys.com Jon Jury

    Ahhhh this is so real! A well-spoken, well-educated, well-dressed, good-looking Black man is a highly desired commodity in NYC, so he can afford to shop around dating-wise. Honestly, I don't think most dudes realize that. I think the incorrect approach for this type of man would be to get lazy. Certainly he should NOT put up with people's BS, but he should also not become lax with the things that made him so desirable in the first place. Maintain high standards. I think that's a choice that should be made for one's self, and only secondarily for the dating community. High standards for one's self should naturally translate into higher expectations in one's counterparts.

  • http://sharemysonshine.wordpress.com Share my Sonshine

    This was an interesting read, as a NYer I've never had that problem, But then again i'm not giving up my number (or my goodies) to random strangers on corners either. I recently moved to Charlotte, NC and I think the dating scene here sucks compared to NYC. I feel like the men have it WAY too easy because woman here are putting up with non sense in their quest to live that "american dream" (husband, 2.5 child all b4 30 yo).

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003596505371 Nancelis Serrano

    Let's face it: Times have changed. We live in a world where the word commitment is synonymous to deficiency.

    A world where people look down on embracing commitment, and encourage prolonging, and even preventing, the process.

    A world that runs away from commitment but makes one another feel committed to each other because they're too selfish and too afraid to see each other with anyone else.

    There is no concrete explanation that goes into such detail as to clarify why our views have been corrupted or what has caused such corruption in our views of dating, relationships, and commitment, today. The only thing we know for sure is that it, indeed, has been corrupted… and unfortunately, the corruption extends beyond that of any boundary of a city, state, or zip code.

  • Sassafrass

    I would really like to know where in Boston you were hanging out? As a single black female with advanced degrees I am constantly passed over for white women bearing much less (physically, academically and socially). SImilar to NYC- no one is interested in putting up that much work for a smart sister when there is a white chick desperate for some black you-know-what. In my opinion it's even worse in that smaller city because there still exist and imbalance in the sexes- everyone including white girls is scrambling to get themselves a black man and there clearly aren't enough to go around. I agree with the comments on the page – this sounds like an excuse to not step up. Good women are in abundance, not every woman in NYC gives up her number so quickly ( I know cause I was one of them). Perhaps Boston was a bad city of comparison- I understand your point but i'm not seeing it in Boston. Perhaps its more like a North v. South perspective thats different.

  • http://www.formvote.com/ question to friends

    Jajaja that's funny and interesting post!

  • http://adrinafanore.blogspot.com Adrina

    I'm from the South, and I do notice how women are a little desperate up here. And if the tables were turned, women would take advantage of that, so you can't get too upset at men when they do. This article is why I will be seeking a southern man. I have no intentions of settling down here. I get a lot of interest here (and men gave me their number), but it is very difficult to take NYC men seriously especially when you're trying to impress me with bragging about what you have instead of showing good character. Money and material things will go, but good character is forever. Most southern men know that. Hell, men in the DMV are better than the ones in NYC.

  • SweetSass

    If you treat women like dirt, don't be surprised when at the end of the day… all you have is dirty women around you.

  • Chloe

    I was recently hurt by a man. I shouldn't be posting anything now because I'm so out of it. I know on did all the time wrong things. I am in so much pain.

  • jackson

    Sadly, My girlfriend and me broke up a month ago. yeah.. i'm young ,handsome,lonely and still hurting.i may be in need of someone to love..still..My friends told me about cougarkissing_ C0M and i got curious about it.. they met their girlfriends there.,It's the best place to meet a older girlfriend . i cant risk myself..So i got a usename(Qcdude) there in order to find a new girlfriend .Is it wrong?Jessica Simpson is fighting the battle of the post-baby bulge, a process she says is slower than she expected.

  • Pingback: Black Enterprise - Men Will Only do What you Allow Them to Do

  • Pingback: Lifestyle - Men Will Only do What you Allow Them to Do

  • Jongu

    I lived in NYC for the last three years. I am black, 6.2, highly educated and six figure income. I was described as handsome by some women including all races. I dont consider my self supercute but Ok. I am humble and easy going. I had the opportunity to meet chicks who are kind of low class but I am not interested at all. But I have hard time getting a woman who is educated and keep herself in high standard. Most chicks in New York seem scarred emotionally from multiple brake ups to trust anyone. So It is kind of hard to find for someone genuine, honest and at least with some self value. I will wait until I find that one but refuse to hang out with low class chicks.

  • Miss M

    I have been in NY 10 years. So far in terms of dating I've found a huge depraved population here who send unwanted pictures of their privates, act low class/ vulgar, into degenerative behaviors and have a lack of basic social skills. I've tried in many ways to meet nice people. So far it hasn't been possible.

  • Tracy

    I live in the DC area (suburbs) and my experience is this: there are 2 professional women for every 1 professional man. Women here seem to say the same thing as you say women in NYC are saying: there are no good men, they're all metrosexual, lazy and disrespectful. In my experience is a relatively recent divorcee, when I first started dating, I found this to be true. When it occurred to me that the men I was attracting were being lazy about dating me, I realized it was because I wasn't holding them (or myself) to a high enough standard. Since then, my dating life has slowed down tremendously, but the calibre of men who enter my experience has improved exponentially.

  • visualgirl

    Liked your candid point of view. So you wondering why women just don’t speak up to men who aren’t making an effort – and I recently learned that there's no real point in it. If he’s not already making an effort, he’s not going to and will likely tell you he can’t “right now” if you "demand" it. Maybe the best thing to do is observe what’s going on without infatuation goggles, and if he’s not treating you right from the get-go AND continuing in that fashion, it’s not likely in him. No one can give or receive if they're not loving themselves or have loved others beforehand.

  • onebrightstar

    I live in CT and I luv to party in NYC but the guys are pretty much lazy anywhere u go. I am pretty, smart, educated and basically a really good catch! And even I have noticed that the quality of men has deteriorated over the years. Men used to do certain things automatically, without having to be asked. Now they don't have to do anything and most women out here still treat them like kings. Its disgusting really….my theory is that women are just getting desperate. After we have weeded out all the men who are players, losers, gay or already married, what do we have left? Not much to choose from :(

  • Brandon T.

    I live in Indianapolis where there is a huge disparity of professional black women for the number of professional black men in the city. This is very encouraging that in cities like NYC, ATL, D.C. , Houston..etc.. the dating experience is much better than places like Indianapolis. Here a strong supply of engineering and other male dominated fields ensures that many men will flock to the city. Once here you quickly discover that black women appear to fall for brothers that pretend to be something they are not. It's almost like black women here do not know what a true successful black male looks and sounds like. They tend to go after black guys that pretend to be gentlemen, white guys, mexicans or anything else other than a good black man. And when they do run across you be prepared to prove that you are not married, don't have kids or any diseases…and oh yeah that you are not gay. It's like women here have to many pre-conceived notions about black men which cause them to try to group every "black" man into the same category. And the good black women that do reside here seem to never leave the house outside of work and church. You must rely on random situations to get sub-par chicks that have major attitude problems that will vy for you and every other black guy they can trick into helping them out with finances. And oh yeah a 10 in Indianapolis is a 6 or 7 in any other major city, guys here go bizurk for average looking black women that offer nothing but want everything. It's good to hear the grass is really greener on the other side. hhmmm I think it's time for a trip out to Atl, and Cali.

  • jennifer

    Eventually all the games get played ,big city or small town ,when your big dick and my city smarts just don’t cut it any more, our vunerabilities hidden under great underrwear and good jobs,until a parent,child or best friend dies.
    After the shit hits the fan you know you can’t play that shit of kings forever.

  • DeKeLa

    but they dont hear you tho…

  • GirlSixx

    You know what, it's sad to say but damn it; you right on point with this but I think the reason it (flirting) has lost its art form is because competition is fierce out in these streets and SOME not ALL men ain't trying to play that dangle the carrot in front of the donkey with chicks when they know they can just move onto much easier conquest.

    *Proudly Displays "Yeah I'm A OG Flirt" T-Shirt*

  • Muze

    best comment of the day. preach.

    subtly goes a long way.
    My recent post two sweaty dollars

  • TheTravelingType

    I actually have to agree with you. Flirting is an art that is very under used by women.

  • Teflon Mom

    I feel you, truly I do. But this is also why I'm a fan of NOT listening to young(ish) single men. How many times have I seen men advise women that "they can't read our minds", "it's not high school" and "spartan up". I've taken quite a bit of heat for this, but I was NEVER interested in the type of dude who wanted to eye fug and wait for me to come to him. Over the years my most successful flirting has been a friendly face and smile. The big ole booty don't hurt either, lol.

  • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

    I don't think these are lost arts. I think some women never had them, and other women were never very good at them, and other women forsaked that art because they saw the men going after the easy women and leaving a nicer woman if she was too much "trouble".

  • http://twitter.com/MOTRenaissance @MOTRenaissance

    Women play price discrimination, so it is no way I will be playing the courting game in NYC

  • GirlSixx

    True.com

    #Welp

  • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

    I've seen a good flirt go wrong.

  • Bree

    Hallway I find that all flirting does nowadays no matter how subtle is make a man think about you sexually more than if you played the "good girl" and didn't allow him to curse in front of you.
    Flirt with a man here and he is going to bend over backwards to get you to go to his place or take you to his place and fu**. Or he will say all the things he thinks you want to hear and tell you he wants you and wants to settle down and find the right woman and get married and have kids and yada yada yada and you end up being an "fwb" instead of a girlfriend much less a wife.
    I'm sure it's not in the DMV only. People just play waaaaaaay too many games. But men tell me they play games because so many women play games. They say they are just as tired of the game-playing as women.

  • http://twitter.com/KatWebb84 @KatWebb84

    "The big ole booty don't hurt either, lol."

    You're a mess, LOL.

  • Bree

    Me too Kat…..me too.