Why Are So Many Black Men Single: A Different Take on an Old Topic

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Today at 7:15 PM  I’ll be on “The Daily Drum” which broadcasts locally in Washington DC on WHUR 96.3 & nationally on H.U.R. Voices Sirius XM Channel 141 to have a conversation on “ Why Are So Many Black Men Single.” If you have time, please check me out.

Before going on the show, I wanted to share some thoughts on why I feel my stance on the issue is sometimes much different than other Black folks, even some Black men.

It was a few years ago, I was having a heated debate with a friend about her choice to stop dating Black men. She was well within her rights, but I felt her decision was coming from a place of frustration and anger. She royally roasted everything about Black men, however, in all of what she said, she said one thing that has resonated with me until today.

“Black men do not associate committed relationships or marriage with a sign of maturity.”

That stung. It was the first time I had ever thought about the situation that way before. I don’t know if I’ve put that quote in a post or comment before, but I’m going to expand on it for just a moment. We can talk about the disparities in numbers between Black women and men. Of course, there are tons of women for Black men to date and it renders needing to pick one useless. I don’t know, I don’t agree with that all the time, and it’s a played out answer.

We can talk about how Black women have eliminated a need for Black men. That’s a valid point. There’s several ways of looking at that situation. In some ways, women these days, in general, are more focused on independence than they’ve ever been. In other ways, Black women have long been put in positions to take care of their family and well-being because of missing Black men in the household. We’ll leave that at that. We can talk about the statistics around divorce, which to me, reveals that it’s merely an issue of maturity. Fear of divorce is a cowardice action. Why would you fear there was something that you could not achieve like a successful marriage? Is your excuse that marriages aren’t easy? Right, but neither is being a Black man in America. I’d argue that one is a whole lot harder than the other.

Somewhere along the way as Black men we stopped viewing marriage as a sign of maturity. We didn’t see it as a necessary step in adulthood. We could say, “I’m a grown ass man” without ever having any type of outlook on the type of wife we wanted or if we would ever make finding her a priority. We found ways to make it completely normal to put off committed relationships for years until some of us reached an age where it wasn’t even a viable option. Not to say that Black men are the only ones who do this. I would counter with saying that despite the fact other races do not marry, those men are well aware of their pariah status. Black men on the other hand have no remorse for being nowhere near marriage in their thirties, forties, or fifties.

As long as Black men can fulfill the personal achievements and goals that they’ve set forth for themselves, it’s fine to be single. If we can achieve wealth and notoriety through professional and personal success, then it’s fine to be single. But where is our desire for virtue? Virtue is not something that can be achieved through wealth or popularity. It’s a long standing relationship with your character and integrity. It’s a pursuit of a legacy. It’s knowing that as a man, you did an awesome job.

Most of us will enter our highest earning years in our late thirties or forties and shortly thereafter, for most of us, that will fade. However, the pursuit of virtue and a legacy doesn’t come from corporate America. In addition to personal achievements, it comes from doing more. Working hard at being a great husband, a great father, a leader in his family, and leaving an imprint on humanity. That’s why I think that the pursuit of marriage is very important for Black men. It’s not optional or a choice that everyone has to make for themselves. If you tried and failed, fine. At least, you had enough sense enough to know that it would take more to be regarded as a great man than personal achievements.

That’s why when someone asks me, why are so many Black men single? It’s not a huge debate for me. It’s simple; because most Black men haven’t figured out how to associate a committed relationship with a sign of maturity. That’s my take.

- Dr. J

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  • http://twitter.com/Neuronerd17 @Neuronerd17

    I've never associated marriage or a committed relationship with a sign of maturity. Sure if that is what you want and you strive for it then I believe you should be mature before taking any kind of action toward that goal and that would be an appropriate stepping stone. However, if I am reading you correctly which I may not be, then I just don't see it as a necessary stepping stone. I've met other men of other races as you say in their 30's and 40's unmarried and just to make it specific I'm on my way to a PhD program so the men I refer to are other scientists involved in some form of cell and molecular biology.

    • 2cool4school

      Valid point, I must say that a small % of the US pop. (2%) have PhD's and I can only imagine how many are black men. These guys are usually in a position to really be stable when they do decide to get hitched. I support anyones' decision to abstain/delay relationships but in the interim it would be good to also abstain from bringing children into the world. Im not here to argue about waiting until marriage but having children with side chicks and one night stands is immature IHMO.

      • Adonis

        But if we are going to bring children in the world in unmarried situations, I trust men (who are willing & able) over women (who are willing & able) anyday of the week

  • http://twitter.com/Neuronerd17 @Neuronerd17

    I've never associated marriage or a committed relationship with a sign of maturity. Sure if that is what you want and you strive for it then I believe you should be mature before taking any kind of action toward that goal. However, if I am reading you correctly which I may not be, then I just don't see it as a necessary stepping stone. I've met other men of other races as you say in their 30's and 40's unmarried and just to make it specific I'm on my way to a PhD program so the men I refer to are other scientists involved in some form of cell and molecular biology.

    There is never a question of why they aren't married or some kind of negative commentary. It is what it is, they've been focus on their research and that's it. That's all I am concerned with at the moment an all I see myself becoming concerned with though the examples I gave may not be the type of people you are referring too. If it is then this may be a little too subjective. I just think of the great scientists in history that never married yet did all the things you listed, most importantly leaving their mark on humanity. Their mark just happened to affect billions of people.

    • PassTheDankPlease

      I can see where you are coming from, but please realize how fragile the black community is. More fragile than Mr.Glass in unbreakable. Men of other races can of marriage because let’s keep it real, the majority of them get married. They, for the most part, have intact families and neighborhoods.

      I absolutely love this post because for once I feel like someone gets it. Do you know how it feels to be a black woman living in a mostly black neighborhood, yet I feel so vulnerable and unprotected? Unprotected because some of my black brothers, for whatever reason(sometimes not of their own) do not stand by us? Mention marriage and commitment which protects us women, and some black men just don’t get it. Just use women until you suck them dry until they have nothing left to give. You can’t squeeze blood from a turnip.

      Malcolm X said it best, the most disrespected person in America is the black woman. The the most unprotected person in America is the black woman. The most neglected person in America is the black woman. I literally get chills from watching that video on YouTube. He got it. Why can’t some of yall?

      • Beef Bacon

        I love your comment! The excuse I continue to hear is that “women wanted equal rights” mess. When that has YET to stop other white, red, and yellow men from doing their duties as men.

        Ironically the very thing some women fought for back in the day was used against us today. I feel women wanted to be treated equal as in equal pay, equal respect, equal consideration. It seems as if some men used the woman’s desire to be treated equal as an excuse to neglect their own duties.

        • Adonis

          So basically, you want the POWER of MEN, the PRIVILEGE of WOMEN, and the RESPONSIBLITY of NEITHER.

          I can definitely see how that can be problematic. And other races of women choose their MEN over having a man's POWER & "PRIVLEGE". Because you can't have both.

        • Beef Bacon

          The POWER of a man? I am not a man therefore don't want to be seen like one or be one. Are you implying that I am somehow less than a man because I am a woman. I am A woman…..you cannot compare me to a man. I am a WOMAN!

          "So basically, you want the POWER of MEN, the PRIVILEGE of WOMEN, and the RESPONSIBLITY of NEITHER"

          Where did you see that in my comment?

          I want to be respected and treated as YOU want to be treated. Does a man's power comes from him suppressing a woman? Some power! I have my own power as an individual and could care less about wanting a man's power. I just want the freedom to express that power without some insecure man trying to hold me down.

          Your definition of power is very limited. I AM all that I want to be and power nor privilege determine that. As they are both flimsy!

      • Ginny

        I was going to comment but you said it all.

      • Adonis

        Black women highly contribute to their unprotection, neglection & their disrespection. Enablers is the word I am shooting for. elaborate on that.

      • http://twitter.com/Neuronerd17 @Neuronerd17

        This is unfortunate and I am sorry you have been made to feel this way. I can understand this being the situation with some people. My mother was always surrounded by my uncles, grandfather, and men of the church on top of her being a very tough woman so I had never heard her feel unprotected and for most of my life thought that's just how black women were. Strong as hell. Wasn't until college that I met women like yourself. Anyway moving on, some of these men may or may not get married. Which is why I brought up examples of scientists (non-black) in history that never got married. Yet I don't think that made people question their maturity or where they were in their life. Well I can only guess, all I can say is we do not question it now.

        I guess I should have made my point a little more clear as to address your second paragraph. If you are not seeking any kind of committed relationship for the purpose of marriage, such as myself, then I strongly believe that you should not date. period. Have friends, make it clear that you're friends, and all that good stuff, but do not start doing relationship or marriage things with that person. I think that is the problem you are referring to and I think a lot of men and women need to get a grip on that. However, I can find men of other races who do the same thing, I guess the only difference is we as black people tend to want to correct ourselves (a good thing) compared to other races.

    • http://learninglover.com/blog AfterMath

      A point you're leaving out that I think needs to be addressed is the question of how valuable is a PhD in the Black community? Particularly the dating game? Particularly for Black men. I mean, the choice to go after a PhD is really a sign of maturity in itself, and its a choice that you want to spend you life (or at least the next 5-10 years) focused on this one "thing".

      To many women, that eliminates these men from the dating game because she wouldn't be his first priority. And someone else asked how many Black men are in cell an molecular biology. I can ask the same thing about Black women in stem fields. It gets really hard to have a normal conversation when your mind is in the world of algorithms/complexity theory/advanced math all day.
      My recent post Understanding Bayes’ Theorem

  • E.B.Dubois

    Great analogy. You were pretty original in your thoughts….Hmmmm. Black men aren’t getting married because marriage and relations between black men and black women are inconsistent. Some black women have animosity towards black men, and some should, but the issue is usually based on a situation that both parties played a part in. The animosity can be generational as well. I actually feel like some black women aren’t happy unless they have some drama going on with their man to gossip about, something to argue about, or something to complain about. It’s great that black women are obtaining advanced degrees, however that degree and job status should be left in the office. Career status should never be used as power to control a relationship. Why is it that women of other races who have the same advanced degrees and professional status stay married or are getting married? Temperment. Appreciation. Role recognition. I believe that black women shoot themselves in the foot in those areas. A great deal of them have horrible, confrontational, argumentative attitudes. Like Jeckyl and Hyde at times. Their attitudes kill their looks, the level of respect they demand, and their spirit. Most black men can look at a black woman and tell if she’s going to be an asset or a liability. If a black man refuses to engage with some of them in an argument, or if he doesn’t check his woman he is labeled a punk?? A woman of another race is less likely to humiliate or provoke their men. It’s sad because a lot of black women have no clue what a quality man looks like because some/most have daddy issues. Our men have daddy issues as well so it’s no wonder why our relationships end in divorce. Some of us are broken people and should not enter into parenting situations, relationships, or marriage with one another until we deal with our issues. We need to stop taking out our frustrations on one another. Willie Lynchism is still effecting us like 1712 was yesterday.

    • J_nise

      BOOM! And there it is. I agree sir.

    • Adonis

      Some like it HOT

    • Cookie

      why must black women ALWAYS be compared to women of other races? what makes them the epitome of how to be a woman and how treat a man, a black man in particular? black women can be there for the black man, leave our 'corporate persona' at the office, our advanced degrees on the wall, and he still isn't satisfied with who we are, appreciate what we do for him, or what we bring to the relationship. what is up with that?? there are a lot of brothers who have no idea how to treat a good woman or what a good woman looks like. the same way we have to be willing to compromise in a relationship, so must the brothers. the idea that black women have issues/attitudes/etc. is getting old; i don't doubt nor deny that there are many of us who have head rolling, teeth-sucking attitudes, but the generality that all of us do is a cop-out.

  • JupiterCalhoun

    Despite being told that we're "winning", some of us aren't even getting looked at. Not all of us are 6'5" and pulling down $80k+ a year, with light skin and "good" hair.

    But don't take my word for it: http://www.essence.com/2011/04/08/10-underrated-m

    The fact is, some dudes aren't going to be on the radar of a lot of women. The same holds true with regards to women. Some people just aren't getting that second look. It's a hard fact of life, but it's a fact.

    • Adonis

      We already know what time it is when it comes to the "Where are all the GOOD black men at?"

      It is comical as bad train wreck

    • http://twitter.com/CandaceyD @CandaceyD

      Not everyone is looking for 6'5, 80k a ear and light skin. Plenty of us find chocolate skin, not having kids and baby mamas coming out of the woodworks, actual maturity and intelligence to be the most attractive things a man can bring to the table.

  • http://learninglover.com/blog AfterMath

    See, the thing is that we are not some uniform monotone set that behaves and acts in a uniform way. I know a lot of my friends who met the one they wanted to marry, but she didn't have time for him, or was too interested in her career, or was just interested in being "buddies". Its all about meeting the right person (for you) at the right time.

    On the other hand, for some, the idea of say pursuing your dreams is a lot easier to accomplish. Or at least to try to accomplish. If I want to pursue my dreams, it doesn't require me to play all the relationship games that some people love to play. I don't have to go through all the wrong "dreams" before I find the right one (as most people do with relationships).
    My recent post Understanding Bayes’ Theorem

  • Classy6ft5

    Y'all gotta get this spam under control!!!

    • Adonis

      What spam?

  • prettyorchid

    I can relate to how your friend feels. I havent given up on black men but it is always a struggle with them even when just dating. Im a 29 year old woman and men my age are solely focused around fwb relationships. No one wants a commitment let alone a marriage. And when they want marriage (which is rare) and kids they want it like right then.

    I wish men would stop looking at marriage as a setback. It is a beautiful thing in the eyes of God. Men are more willing to knock you up than put a ring on it. I cant recall how many discussions I've had with men who are more willing to impregnate me vs marrying me. Its baffling.

    • Uncle Hugh, BP

      "Men are more willing to knock you up than put a ring on it. I cant recall how many discussions I've had with men who are more willing to impregnate me vs marrying me. Its baffling."

      Where they do that at? That baffles me too.

      • prettyorchid

        Im surprised it surprised you. My ex and I had numerous conversations about not getting married (which is the reason I left). However, whenever we talked about having a family he was all for that. My ex before that wanted the same thing. The man I recently stopped dating was ok with having a baby first and a wife later. Where have our priorities gone?

        • Bree

          I feel u on that pretty. I always have folks ask me "why i have no kids?" and "Do I want kids?" Hardly ever do they ask, "why I'm not married" First. I never understood that myself. Then I have to answer, "I don't have kids cause I'm not married." and folks are like "oh." smdh

        • http://www.socialbutterfly823.blogspot.com SocialButtefly823

          I just had this conversation with my cousin yesterday who is my age (34) The last two guys I dated wanted children with me without a commitment. I am also baffled by this. The cold part about it, is that felt I should be honored to be their “baby mama” when I would have preferred “wife” then mother.

        • Woman

          Maybe you should ask them these questions before you get in a relationship with those kind of men….

      • Mr_SD

        (@ the ripe old age of 23) I was absolutely that guy. I wanted a child and not a wife. For some reason the ish just made sense to me. And my parents have been together for 33 yrs. At the time it just made sense to me…….#yeaiwasbuggin

        • Bree

          yeauwastrulybuggin SD. I know too many folks right now who can't afford childcare for kids under school age. That ish is the mnthly cost of a mortgage or aptmnt rent in a high end district.
          Before and afterschool care is your car paymnt if u got a brand new car and unperfect credit.

        • Mr_SD

          I never worried about that. I will provide. but maybe that was part of my psyche at the time. I felt really ready to be a dad. Always wanted kids and felt I was in the right place career-wise, school was almost done, loved my lady, so why not? dumb dumb and dumb…lol I know now that it wasn't the best move for all parties involved. We made it work though and my daughter is beyond happy these days..

        • Bree

          Thats whats up Mr SD. The reality is most babies are Not planned at all. They just happen as a result of gettin it in. I believe that once most people have a baby they will provide for it fairly well and give the child the best life they can out of love and devotion.
          The thing is it can be a struggle for even the parents who are doin really well financially.
          My girlfriend is a stay at home mom and her husband makes well over six figures. She homeschools her kids. Financially they are doing fine, but they still have a hard time finding time just for them as a couple. Unfortunately they get little to no help from their families. I've drove from Md to Pa just to babysit for them because I know they hardly get any time to spend together where it's just the 2 of them. I know how impnt that is in a marriage so I babysit for them when I can so they get that much needed break from the kids so their marriage stays good.

        • SweetSass

          Your daughter is happy right now. But when she is your age? Her 'normal' will be that guys shouldn't want to marry her and she can be a single mom. How will you feel then?

        • Mr_SD

          My job is to teach her to love herself. If she finds a man that can match that love then so be it. I can't forecast her future. I can teach her and also be an example to her, and thats already on my agenda so shes all good.

        • Adonis

          He good, because at long as his baby moms falls back and allows him to be a father, his girl has a really good chance of being someone's wife. It is when women like you want to take the reigns and think that a father is not important.

      • Bree

        They do that Everywhere Hugh.

    • bellatrice1

      Yes!! I was just talking about this the other day with a friend. They will have a baby with you in a second, but marriage, naaahh! It's strange because a lot of Black men talk about wanting to be financially stable and accomplished before marrying, but the responsibility of having/raising a child is far greater. It's just astounding!
      My recent post Embarrassment Parenting is the New Time Out

      • 1prettyorchid

        Bree, I commend you on waiting to have a child. It is a great responsibility.

        @ Mr. SD, I was raised in the south (Mississippi) so at the tender age of 20, I was asked if I could have children (wth?). No lie. We were instilled at an early age that you get married and pop out like 3 kids before 25. I got married and popped out 1 right before 25. Im not about that life anymore. I think your environment and surroundings play a big part on molding you as a child. Im pushing 30 and having more kids is not something I really want. My one is enough.

        • Bree

          Thanks 1pretty. Me wanting to be married to the right man before having a child is moreso about me wanting to give my child the very best I can, including choosing the very best father for them.

        • 1prettyorchid

          Your welcome. And I couldnt agree more. I cant remember verbatim how a saying went but basically it was something along the lines of when choosing someone has a potential father, choose a man that you want your kids to grow up to be like. Not the physical but the personality traits.

          Some women choose dope boys, light skin and curly hair men, tall men, but what about men with good traits (thinkers, family oriented, church goer, etc).

        • Bree

          " when choosing someone has a potential father, choose a man that you want your kids to grow up to be like. Not the physical but the personality traits." My sentiments exactly 1pretty.

    • Adonis

      Sweetheart 29 is too late to be looking for marriage in the black community. Why are you checking for non-committal men, and where were your thoughts on a ring at 18-25?

      • Adonis

        I read the thread, so I'm good. I saw her story, she good.

    • http://twitter.com/Neuronerd17 @Neuronerd17

      Good on ya. I never understood when black people said they were giving up on their own because of some bad experiences. I'm sorry brotha would you like me to get my Mexican friends so they can tell you how the grass is exactly just as green on the other side? Sistah I can get some white women that can tell you the headaches white men have put them through. The only difference is they don't or haven't said "I'm giving up on white men/Mexican women." the ones they've dealt with are A-holes, time to move on.

      Also it's not all men who see marriage as a setback, there are quite a few who desire and work towards it like everything else in their life. I may be echoing my mother here, but people should go beyond their four walls, open the door, and start making more/different associations.

  • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

    Ironically I’m the opposite. My number one goal has always been a family i just want to live as comfortable as possible when I do so. So for now its work, school, and lusting all for the big payoff in the end. If i end up with the career of my dreams along the way thats great. I wouldnt say men who don’t look at it that way arent being mature about it, we just have different perspectives.

    oh and can someone get that troll back under his bridge, thaks

    • Bree

      Good thinking Trist. This is how you do it.

  • Peter Parker

    Yeah I am definitely ready to settle down and get married. That's how I was raised and most of my friends are married. I think marriage is a good thing. I am a 32 year old man and I find it not hard, but some women in that age range don't really want that or it seems if you don't have drama in your life you are boring. I have the career going good and all the education I plan to attain out the way. Now just looking to meet and grow old with wifey..lol

    • LadyRazorback

      Women love to talk about how hard it is to meet a good guy but in actuality I believe it's just as hard for men to meet a quality woman. Good luck!

      • Adonis

        Thank you ladyrazorback

    • Bree

      Peter and LadyRazor I know plenty of really good women. I think part of it is folks are getting more and more picky about the person they choose. It's like the prospect of potentially spending your life with someone makes folks be extra extra picky everytime they think about that. Many people really are looking for damn near perfection in a mate. They can tell u a laundry list of things they want and don't want. Women used to be notorious for this, now men are getting just as picky as women.
      A guy friend of mine who is goin thru a seperation now is so bitter that he dismisses practically all women for damn near every little thing. When I asked him was there any imperfections he could deal with, (cause the reality is u will have to deal with some imperfections),the only thing he said was snoring. I told his azz to stay single til he goes back to his country which is Africa. He may find a "Coming To America," "Queen To Be" type woman there.

      • Quietstorm83

        100% agree with Bree! "I think part of it is folks are getting more and more picky about the person they choose." I've meet a few decent guys but I'm not sure if it is arrogance or what but it's like if you are not some model….label and shoe brand name type chick a guy will pay you not attention. I have no problems getting attention from guys but sense I'm not all into brand name materials and more of the average girl / girl next door…I tend to get slighted and passed over.

        It's all good but just like some good guys are being passed over…so are some good women. I know Men are visual but some spend way too much time focusing on that and really seeing the woman for who she really is. Both sides are becoming very overly picky.

  • GirlSixx

    *BLINK BLINK*

    Ooooohh. Okay…..

    O_____o

  • Mr. SD

    So many blk men are single because today’s woman makes it extremely easy to carry on a relationship with zero commitment!

    • prettyorchid

      Mr. SD, I do agree. I have once been that woman before. Never again…

      But lets keep it all the way real. How many of us grew up with mommy and daddy… cmon dont be shy –raise those hands. Not many of us. How many of our 40, 50, 60 year old mothers are single.?How many of our aunts? It worse today yes, but this didnt happen overnight. I just think a lot of women are putting their middle finger and the air and screaming eff it.

      Our men are leaders. They are suppose to lead us. So if anything happens or changes it should start with the man. That’s my opinion. A lot of women dont know how to not lead because we watched our grandmother, mother, and aunts hold down the fort. Now we have to do the same and possibly carry that torch to our daughter. Its sad.

      • Mr_SD

        Our men are leaders. They are suppose to lead us. So if anything happens or changes it should start with the man. That's my opinion

        Totally agree!

    • Uncle Hugh, BP

      "So many blk men are single because today's woman makes it extremely easy to carry on a relationship with zero commitment!"

      And there it is.

      • Beef Bacon

        Today's woman? What about today's' woman that still want to be married? As a woman with women friends, I see that there are still many women that want to be married to a black man. The group that choose to carry on a relationship with zero commitment do not represent all women.

        I think some men just ride that wave as long as they can. For every woman that allows you to get away with mess, they are 2 women that have different standards. Stop making excuses for brothers to continue bending to their lower selves.

        If the TRULY wanted a women that was marriage minded…they would find her.

        • Mr. SD

          Its not even an excuse its just the truth. Black men benefited from that whole blk women empowerment movement. There was point when ya’ll felt so empowered ya’ll wanted to date like men. it was the best thing in the world for us (as blk men) and a serious blow to commitment for blk women. It opened the door for blk men in particular (because blk women wont date any other race of men) to love her but not keep her. It sucks but its real!

          Disclaimer: I’m def not speaking about all women, there are exceptions to every rule.

        • Beef Bacon

          There with you go with that YALL stuff. I know many women that do not fall into that category. Btw, what is dating like a man? I though people in general date to find someone like-minded to move forward with. So I ask again what is dating like a man?

          I think some women got the 'if you can't beat 'em join 'em' attitude, however that still doesn't negate the fact that there are many women that prefer to be a wife instead of a jump off.

          How was it the best thing in the world for Black men? Can you truly look at the state of our community and say that out loud. Choosing to play the field has manifested itself in various horrible ways throughout our community. Yeah sure a brother may get to soar his oats, but every seed you plant you will reap. That's saying quantity is better than quality.

          Be careful about those open doors you choose to walk into.

        • Mr_SD

          Dating like a man (to me) is a reference to juggling multiple (non-committal) situationships…lol Not all men do it, again there are exceptions. In my opinion (most) women are no built they way we are and cant handle it but do take on the challenge because to a certain extent its empowering. Its its all unemotional and non-committal then we all loose. Its just something ive noticed while I was single.

          Having a variety of females to choose from will always be great. Yea our community is suffering but that has zero to do with me having a healthy selection of women to choose from. Quality goes hand in hand with quantity. How do what know what works for me if Ive only been exposed to 1 type of female?

        • http://twitter.com/futuresatellite @futuresatellite

          "Quality goes hand in hand with quantity. How do what know what works for me if Ive only been exposed to 1 type of female?"

          I disagree, quality does not go hand in hand with quantity. What if you're continually exposed to the same type of woman every single time? Is that progression. That keeps you in the same place.

        • Mr_SD

          My point exactly, you have to have an open mind, date a white chick, maybe asian maybe a good'ol southern girl, mix it up! I wont know what it want till i meet it.

        • http://twitter.com/futuresatellite @futuresatellite

          I think I know what you're trying to say but you lost me when you said mix it up. A woman is a woman whether she's asian, southern, or white. The culture within different ethnicity might be different but as far as a loving relationship that's a case by case basis, people vary. I don't have to date or have a relationship with 100 men to know what qualities I desire in a man whether they're white, southern or Asian. In fact if you're going into a relationship not knowing what you wan't you're losing.

        • Mr_SD

          "In fact if you're going into a relationship not knowing what you wan't you're losing."

          You're kinda losing. Its great to know what you want, but its even better when you can accept a person as is, faults included.

        • Peter Parker

          Yeah, but again if you are single, you can do what you want to do. Plus, so many women are so pressed to have a man or get some sort of attention, alot are cool with the fact of the man they are dealing with dating other women. I think you should date more than one person to understand what type of qualities you need in a woman….The key though is to always be honest…

        • Mr_SD

          Honesty can be a killa. It works but during the dating process it can sometimes work against you. I feel like all you women get together and pledge allegiance to getting all men to remain " honest "…lol

          And all it really does is protect ya'll hearts/feelings so I really cant be madd…but still..lol

        • http://twitter.com/futuresatellite @futuresatellite

          How does honesty work against someone while dating? Genuinely curious.

        • Mr_SD

          You may ask " so are you seeing anyone besides me, and if yes how many" Now I have 2 options here….I can lie or be "honest"

          I can say " umm yea I've been out on a date or two whenever I find the time "……(this was my typical answer because i never really had time to date)

          OR

          I can say yep, dating 6 chicks and you're #7!

          Now which of them answers is going to A. get me into ya drawz and B get another date with you because i genuinely like you???

        • http://twitter.com/futuresatellite @futuresatellite

          This is a BIG problem with dating. Never assume that she's not gonna accept the truth. Just be honest. I'd personally appreciate your honesty if you told me you were dating 6 other women and I was #7.

          If a woman rejects you for being honest that's her loss. You might be alone afterwards but you should find someone who agrees to your terms. It's just less heartache and drama.

          Even if you like her taking the less honest approach and getting a second date doesn't guarantee it's going somewhere especially with you not being upfront.

          Also I don't know how I feel about "A) Get me into ya drawz" that just sounds downright manipulative :/

        • Mr_SD

          I guess I've been in situations where I have a dating pool of women I see every so often and Im juggling. Not really interested any specific one and I'm pretty open to new applicants. I feel like the truth my make me seem like a man whore. Not a good look. I get ya point though.

          'Get me in ya drawz is kinda" blunt. I guess I'm just riding on the premise that I'm sitting across from you on a date because I am attracted to you.

        • http://twitter.com/futuresatellite @futuresatellite

          Understood :)

        • 1prettyorchid

          Mr. SD your comments doesnt surprise me nor am I offended by it. Most men have a habit of juggling women. Its nothing new. Hell its almost expected in dating.

          However… I agree with future all the way. Honestly is the best policy hands down. If you need to rephrase it differently, then do just that . I have had someone to tell me, "well if I told you the truth, you wouldnt have dealt with me." Darn right, but at the end of the day, I could respect you as a person. Your truth allows me to ponder on what you said and make a rational decision about how I want to proceed with you.

          I think we are selfish point blank and the period. We tend to want to satisfy our own needs regardless of how it affects the next person.

        • Mr_SD

          " I think we are selfish point blank and the period. We tend to want to satisfy our own needs regardless of how it affects the next person. " – Agreed!

          And this is why (some) men could care less about you respecting me as a person during the dating process. We in it to win it.

        • 1prettyorchid

          "We in it to win it."

          Touche!

        • GirlSixx

          "Most men have a habit of juggling women. Its nothing new — Hell its almost expected in dating. "

          Exxxatlyyy. that's what I always assumed, ain't nothing solidified until we've had the "talk"

        • Mr_SD

          I love having the talk..lol had it like a month ago with my new shawty…she had a look in her eye like it was xmas morning..lol

        • GirlSixx

          Wait, so whatchu saying???

        • Mr_SD

          Im saying its a beautiful thing to be able to find someone that you wanna have " the talk " with..lol

        • GirlSixx

          Ahhh, oh okay.

          *PutsPistolBackinHandbag*

          Cosign!!!!!

        • 1prettyorchid

          GirlSixx, Im with you on that one. So what are you saying?

          *tapping fingers on desk*

        • Mr_SD

          Im also saying, its never serious for us men until we have the talk.

        • GirlSixx

          Truth.com

          Ok Gotcha!!!

        • Adonis

          @futuresatellite

          Your "dating advice for men" card has been pulled.

          Please cease & desist from giving out any more info. You need some study time about men & how we operate & our current experiences with today's (black) woman

        • http://twitter.com/futuresatellite @futuresatellite

          Wha? I never aspired to give dating advice to men. I'm only speaking for myself for that matter. I value honesty but I can't be the only woman who does, despite what your male friends tell you. Don't know, maybe you value lying to women to get what you want from them.

        • blu_wire

          The dating like a man idea is interesting. Historically men controlled the market for marriage. Women married when men decided they were ready. Or when their masters, fathers or community forced them to. It was unusual and socially ostracizing for the woman to do the asking. So men controlled the timing based on custom and social dynamics.

          Fast forward past women's lib and the rise of the so-called independent woman. Now the problem appears to be that, while men are still controlling the timing by and large, now the fault is the woman's for giving him the option of sex before marriage?

          So when there was no "dating like a man" men controlled the timing. Now that there is "dating like a man" men still control the timing, but now it's just the woman's fault that men are not forced to marry them?

          Convenient.

        • Mr_SD

          Its really not ya'll fault. The SMART women control the whole situation.

        • blu_wire

          And that's the lie some men employ to create divisions and infighting between and among women.

          No woman controls any man. Unless she’s his mother and even then, only for so long.

          Men make choices because they want to and they can. Where a man is unable or unwilling or incapable of making choices, he may look to those perceived to have more ability than he to direct him. But even in so doing, in abdicating his agency to another, even in that, he is making his own choice.

          Women do not fall for this. You cannot control men. You can influence, inspire and encourage. But the right man, the mature man controls himself

          You both have the power to direct your relationship and shape its course. But your intelligence as a woman is not related to whether you can "control the whole sitution" to get a man to the alter. Foolish fantasy.

        • Mr_SD

          When I say control i mean as in control of the situation.

          There is a group of women out there, its a fairly small group and dammit they ALWAYS win! Wanna know why? Confidence! Confidence is key, they let no man or situation define them. They never lose in the dating game. But at the end of the day yes you are correct in saying: "You both have the power to direct your relationship and shape its course." – I agree.

        • blu_wire

          There are plenty of divorced confident women. Everyone loses in the dating game once or twice, if not more. Only self-diluted people believe otherwise. And smart women knows better than to believe otherwise.

        • Mr_SD

          " There are plenty of divorced confident women "

          Yes and they still winning because they didn't lose themselves. That's key

        • blu_wire

          Is it? lol. Okay..you go with that.

        • 2cool4school

          "as a woman with woman friends"
          In my limited experience I have found several of my friends are all about that standard life but in relationships do their own thing. So yes they have formulated standards but that doesn't mean that they implement them or don't backslide when confronted with being alone as they alternative they will stay in a no-relationship relationship for years.

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          Beef Bacon"Today's woman? What about today's' woman that still want to be married?"

          They can find today's man that still wants to get married. It's really just that simple.

        • Bree

          They would find her very easily and quicker than a NY minute Beef Bacon. There are women everwhere who want a husband.

    • starita34

      True enough, but "today's woman" is dating every race of men though, soooo…

      • Mr_SD

        So whats so wrong with that? get the datin! Mix it up!

        • starita34

          Lol, nothing wrong with folks dating…I'm saying, if the question is "why are so many Black men single?" your theory doesn't account for non Blacks that are marrying "today's woman".

          But it's cool. I don't relate to the original premise to begin with. Just saw a flaw in your reasoning and wondered what your response to "others" still marrying, despite "today's woman" would be.

      • Bree

        Star they need to be, but I don't think they are. Still much trepidation with that.

    • Bree

      Now thats the truth Mr. SD – plain and simple. Thats probably like the number one reason.

    • bellatrice1

      This is true and false in a way. I know that seems impossible, but I'll tell you why. I have dated several men who admit that at some point, they HAVE met a woman that they could have married, but simply chose not.

      So, while there are more women today that will carry on relationships with men with no commitment, if his overall goal is to get married, this shouldn't make a difference. I don't think more women dating w/o a commitment CAUSED men to in turn delay marriage. I think they already wanted to delay marriage, and having more women who will have a rel w/zero commitment just makes it EASIER to delay marriage.
      My recent post Embarrassment Parenting is the New Time Out

      • Mr_SD

        " I think they already wanted to delay marriage, "

        Absolutely..lol I'd like to add that (some) men dont look forward to marriage because its the end of all the foolishness. We've lived/thrived off foolishness forever. Marriage is the beginning of the end. Stupid way to think but we're men, we're stupid sometimes..lol

        • bellatrice1

          So then in turn, you've proved Dr. J's theory about marriage and maturity. Foolishness is why yall aren't getting married, not because chicks will let you hit w/o a commitment. Marriage is a sign of maturity, not saying that all men who marry are mature, but they're getting there faster than a single guy who's just running around like a kid in a candy store lol
          My recent post Embarrassment Parenting is the New Time Out

        • Mr_SD

          Absolutely. There is some truth to that theory but only because with time/age comes maturity (typically). So in essence time can have a direct correlation to marriage. Thirty-five be knocking on ya door and its time to get married…lol I know a ton of immature married folk..

        • blu_wire

          Marriage is a sign of being willing or ready to conform to a social norm. It happens to people who are young, old, immature, incarcerated, ill equipped and infirmed.

          Assigning the institution the ability to define maturity is short sighted. imo

        • Beef Bacon

          blu_wire,

          You call it a social norm, I see it as a beautiful design when done properly. We can always use the negative aspects of anything to try and prove something. Just because marriages end in divorce does not negate the fact that successful marriages are what most aspire to have. Most are born with this aspiration. It is not something you do because others are doing it. Its something that's as natural as breathing. Even most players see themselves marrying eventually.

          Immaturity is a state of the mind, young or old. One does have to be mature to want to take on the duty of being a spouse.

          A social norm is what most see as normal – is that necessarily a bad thing? Considering divorce is the only NEGATIVE outcome of a marriage most people fear, I would say the pros outweigh the cons drastically.

        • bellatrice1

          I don't see it as merely a social norm. I agree with @BeefBacon. There's always those who choose to go against the grain or intentionally rebel against the status quo, but it doesn't make your desire any more logical than my desire to get married and have babies.
          My recent post Embarrassment Parenting is the New Time Out

        • blu_wire

          I think we all may be falling into an unnecessary bit of hair splitting.

          So I concede. It's not "merely" a social norm. But it is A social norm.

          Many people are not rebelling. Some simply may find less value in that particular norm. And many people find value and benefit in being married.

          Logical or not is relative. And will vary depending on the people and the circumstances of that particular marriage.

        • bellatrice1

          I guess it's just that you calling it a social norm is dismissive, and takes away from the meaning and value of marriage in our culture. We're not trying to split hairs. Marriage is sort of a rite of passage as other things are in other cultures, so to call it a social norm is to devalue it's significance as something you either choose to do or choose not to do. Not saying that either is right or wrong.
          My recent post Embarrassment Parenting is the New Time Out

      • http://twitter.com/futuresatellite @futuresatellite

        The flipside makes me wonder how many women have met a man they would marry? Does that often depend on whether they're commitment-phobes or not?

        • Mr_SD

          That's a very good question…whats ya answer? id like to know

        • http://twitter.com/futuresatellite @futuresatellite

          Datingwise, not yet.

        • Bree

          Yes I've met men that were probably marriage material and wanted to marry me. I didn't marry them because in my 20's and early 30's I didn't want to be married. Didn't want the responsibility of it, didn't want to take care of anyone but myself, wanted my freedom, wanted to do what I wanted and come and go as I pleased, and I knew that I was not ready for marriage. Commitment-Phobic, not at all, selfish, yes.

        • bellatrice1

          Funny, you asked. I was going to blog about myself possibly being a commitment phobe. I've been engaged twice, so I have met men that I THOUGHT I could marry lol, but as time went on, I realized that they were not a good fit. I wonder too if I'm being petty or if I'm afraid of commitment. Good question.
          My recent post Embarrassment Parenting is the New Time Out

        • Bree

          bella are u sure your commitment phobic, or just real damn picky?

        • bellatrice1

          That's the thing…I just don't know! A lot of my friends would probably lean towards *too damn picky* lol
          My recent post Embarrassment Parenting is the New Time Out

        • Bree

          I feel u bella…..thats me too….lol

        • GirlSixx

          I can honestly say I've been fortunate enough to meet a few who would be considered LTB even hubby material if I was ready to take that walk again, but I know I am not ready and I also kept it real with them too. I just hope and pray that when I am ready to settle down again I'll have the same luck.

    • SweetSass

      This is a lie.

      There are plenty of us who don't stay with non-commital men and that is precisely why we are single.

      I have had countless 2-3 month relationships. Where after 2 months I gather he is not committed or into commitment and I end it.

      I've yet come across a guy who has the qualities and morals to make something last.

      • http://twitter.com/futuresatellite @futuresatellite

        Sorry, to hear that :/

        I do generally feel that when it comes to dating ( if you're my age range: 20-29 yrs old) especially so, It's a pretty small pool of men who are thinking 'long-term-leading -to-an eventual -marriage' commitment. They are out there though so I'd encourage to continue dating.

        There are a lot of men at church that want to marry but even then the women outnumber the men. They have a lot of women to choose from. Kinda makes it tough to stand out.

      • Adonis

        a serial monogamist is a synomous with H0E. Just a reminder.

      • kamahama

        Aloha from hawaii….sweetsass, if you come across a guy who don't have the qualities or morals to make something last then it's because those very things exists within yourself that you can't stand to look at. I'm a native hawaiian and we hawaiians have our own culture and women to look at with love and care. But, hey, what do I know…I'm just hawaiian with no mainland american experience with mainland women….Mahalo from hawaii….Kamahama

    • http://twitter.com/KeeshJ @KeeshJ

      PREACH!!

  • http://biggerthomas.wordpress.com MadScientist7

    i’ve always considered being in a committed relationship as a sign of maturity. it takes a certain level of maturation and willpower to espouse another person. in my opinion the easy and youthful thing to do is to go through life without caring about someone else. am i saying that if you’re single then you’re immature? of course not. there’s a difference between being single and being relationship-minded. to me it speaks volumes if a person is 30+ and has the mindset of playing the field.

    • http://learninglover.com/blog AfterMath

      I'll speak from my own position. Right now I kinda see some of my friends and the relationships they're in and the complaints they have about it, and really I question this. A relationship may be a sign of a number of things, but maturity? I mean, it might (MIGHT) mean that you want a consistent partner in bed, it might mean that you've found your soul mate, or it might mean that even though you realize that this person isn't the one, you continue to date them because you're lazy and don't want to go through the whole procedure again.

      I mean isn't that why a lot of relationships wind up with one side being heartbroken…..Playing off the post from a few days ago "Five Relationship Flaws Nobody Ever Talks About", isn't that one the reasons that people get on different pages. I mean they've been dating for a year and so she thinks that he's really into her. But he just being lazy and enjoying the ride.
      My recent post Understanding Bayes’ Theorem

      • Beef Bacon

        "A relationship may be a sign of a number of things, but maturity? "

        I have a lot to say about this topic, can't you tell. Aftermath, for me, maturity play a big role in being able to marry. Marriage requires taking another person into consideration at all times. One has to be mature to properly do this. You have to accept that somebody will know that side of you you try to hide from the world. Marriage means another person seeing into the true you. A lot of people cannot handle this. A lot would rather continue too long with shallow relationships until they one day desire something deeper.

        The problem with waiting too long is that those shallow relationship will not allow a person to develop themselves. A good marriage is like a mirror. You will see the places in your life that need improvement. We as people need others to help develop us whether we choose to admit this or not. A marriage gives you a more intimate look at the real you. Some of us just can't face that truth.

        • Bree

          I think it depends on who u marry? Immature and irresponsible folks get married all the time. My cousin and her husband are perfect examples.
          Are Ocho Cinco & Evelyn mature and responsible just cause they got married??? I think not.

  • Beef Bacon

    I think somewhere along the way things got twisted. Back in the day, people married young. They didn’t have a bank account full of money or most of the other things people of today feel they need. The main attribute needed was determination. As long as a brother was determined and motivated to get out there and make a way for the family, he was considered a great catch. This was the way it was for most as most weren’t born with silver spoons.

    The love of materials has hurt us. We value things above life. We value superficial wants over true growth and integrity. Most people in general are stuck on fixing the outside they rarely get beneath the surface. This has caused our people to only focus on that which they can see. They rarely try to master themselves in the areas that TRULY matter.

    No matter how often we SEE that money does not equal peace, we still value worldly things over working on mastering the mind and body. People seemed to be more focused on how much of this or that they can get from others without having to give anything back.

    • Peter Parker

      Yeah, but times have changed. Back in the day, you didn't really need an education or a trade to make ends meet. Nowadays, if you don't have a college education or some type of trade, it will be really hard out here.
      And let's be honest, if your finances are not in order, it will be hard to raise a family. I know many married couples and they all say, if you don't have your finances in order, things will definitely be bumpy.
      Yeah I agree, you would think a brother that is trying to make a way for his family would be a good catch, but I personally had women tell me "how can you date me and you are broke" when I was graduate school. Baffles me! lol

      • Beef Bacon

        Okay so you are basing life off one chick that said something crazy to you? That was only her position, not all women.

        Nowadays, many brothers own businesses that did not require a college degree. That's were that determination and motivation come into play. Furthermore, finances are like life, you have good times and bad times. That will not break an otherwise healthy marriage.

        What some may be afraid of is having a wife and children looking at you when you want to feel sorry for yourself instead of getting back out there and making a way. When you have a family, there is no self-pity or play time. You have to man up and find a legal way to hold the fort down. It is so much easier to navigate this world with a partner though. Imagine having children to provide for and you lose a job and your wife takes the torch. Teamwork!

        • Peter Parker

          Actually I said, "women" meaning plural. Not basing that statement off of one female, but it was definitely more than one.
          Again, the brothers with businesses I guarantee you they had some sort of trade skill they had to master (notice I said college degree or trade skill).
          Never said that it wouldn't make or break a marriage, but as a man that was brought up in a two parent household you always want to put yourself in a situation to lead and make sure your castle is taken care of which having good finances (not alot of baby mamas, good credit, and etc.)
          And if I had a family and lost my job, even with 20 degrees, if i had to go wash cars, flip burgers, or cut grass i will do whatever it takes to hold my family down.

        • Beef Bacon

          I see your point Peter Parker. However no amount of money and education prepares you for the valleys of life. If fact, I would dare say the thinking that money and education will save you from the troubles of this world will set you up for failure. During this recession many people found out that money will always come and go.

          When its gone, then what?

          I see you said-

          "And if I had a family and lost my job, even with 20 degrees, if i had to go wash cars, flip burgers, or cut grass i will do whatever it takes to hold my family down."

          Well a lot of folks can't see themselves doing that. They feel flipping burgers is beneath them. They would much rather sit at home and feel sorry for themselves. It takes maturity to know when you just gotta do what you can until you can do better.

          Now I am not sure why those "women" you met said "how can you date me and you are broke", because I don't think like that. I will say that if those women said that, you don't want that type of woman anyway. That type has the inability to see a bigger picture, so be thankful and move on to a woman that will appreciate the determined motivated brother that you seem to be.

        • Peter Parker

          Oh true indeed. I definitely wouldn't want to be with a woman who can't see the bigger picture so I thank GOD I didn't pursue.
          I agree that money and education can set you up for failure, but you also have to continue to adapt to your environment. Few folks can deal with change which can definitely be detrimental.

        • Adonis

          And if I had a family and lost my job, even with 20 degrees, if i had to go wash cars, flip burgers, or cut grass i will do whatever it takes to hold my family down.

          I am with you 100%. And that is the type of man Black women avoid, all day every day.

          I can find 100 black men in NYC including myself who have that exact same attitude toward their future family. Not including the already married included ones & not including the men who felt that way, but no longer want a family because of negative experiences.

          It is amazing that black women can't find these guys, but non-black women can't shake these guys off. incredible.

        • Adonis

          LOL NAWALT again (Not All Women Are Like That)

          But alot of women are like the one that Peter Parker described

        • Bree

          Exactly Beef Bacon……For some people they would rather be single and not have to worry about a family depending on them should they fail. They don't want to have to worry about anyone but themselves.

      • http://twitter.com/futuresatellite @futuresatellite

        I think it's this kind of mentality that makes people hesitant to marry, I understand how this economy supports this sentiment but every day is a constant struggle and nothing is ever perfect. If a woman or man who marries is truly in it for the long haul the bumps in marriage can be worked through, that's what strong marriages are made of. Finances are obviously a big deal but sometimes sacrifices have to be made and hopefully your significant other is supportive.

    • bellatrice1
    • Bree

      This is true Beef Bacon

  • prettyorchid

    I know this is off topic but can I add a pic without having twiiter, wordpress, etc? I have facebook.

    • Dr. J

      Yeah, you actually do it on gravatar.com.

      • 1prettyorchid

        ok let me see if this works.

        • Dr. J

          I see somebody got that picture, smiling bright!

        • 1prettyorchid

          I meant to thank you- my apologies.

  • Uncle Hugh, BP

    Playing devil's advocate here. If marriage is a sign of maturity, is divorce a sign of immaturity?

    • Dr. J

      I think we're talking about being single vs. being married. I don't think the same applies to marriage vs. divorce. That's a difference beast in itself.

      • Uncle Hugh, BP

        Purely logically speaking, you're correct, but risk of divorce is a reason many don't marry. So if you get married and divorced as fast as Evelyn Kardashian, does that make you mature? If a guy recognizes this risk and delays marriage, does that make him immature?

        Again, playing devil's advocate.

        • Adonis

          LMAO @Evelyn Kardashian 113 days of marriage

    • prettyorchid

      No, I wouldnt necessarily think so. Now some divorce for selfish and immature reasons yes. That crap you see on tv doesnt always give a good viewpoint on marriage and/or divorce (does Kim and Kris come to mind).

      Marriage these days are just like relationships; the only difference is its on paper. My grandparents raised 6 kids. My grandmother never worked a day in her life. My grandfather indiscretions were exposed but the remained married until death did them part. Im not saying cheating isnt grounds for divorce for some but people dont know how to fight for anything because leaving is always easier.

      At the end of the day its all about your mindset, the mindset of your spouse and what your relationship was based on prior to your marriage. However it can be done.

  • http://twitter.com/jtSolBroSupreme @jtSolBroSupreme

    for my own personal reasons, I decided at a young age that I would not have kids and because of that marriage has never been a necessity for me, never on my Life To-Do-List as it is for most people. Thats not to say that I will never marry because I don't know what the future holds for me. I've had 2 that I would still take down the aisle today but….I got stuck in the friend zone. Not a big deal, thats life sometimes. When its right IF its right and I feel its time [and not somebody else deciding or dictating that it is] then I will get married. And I also disagree, marriage is not a sign of maturity, that sounds like somebody following societal and family pressure. If its for you, then cool. If its not for you, then thats cool too. You can look around and clearly see that NOT everyone is meant to be married.

    • Bree

      jtSolBro I agree that marriage is Not a sign of maturity. It's more a part of the matriculation process of life that is governed by society based on people's perception and understanding of the bible.
      Goin back to the good book, imo marriage was simply designed by God so men wouldn't fornicate and to establish an institution under which people could safely and responsibly procreate and populate the earth. Even though some folks don't want to believe it, the only reason why God permitted and encouraged man to have multiple wives, in the beginning, ie Genesis, was to populate the earth quickly.

  • iamkeishabrown

    great post, but i disagree that bw have eliminated a need for bm.
    that's not how it works.

    women need men. men need women. for a variety of reasons that are both similar and different.

    what bw are doing are falling into traps: settling for less, taking easy way out (attempting to date interracially with moderate success), listening to fellas who claim that they want an independent woman and more. and in the end, just getting frustrated with it all.

    but despite the derogatory/redundant/finger-pointing blog posts (not this one in particular) ,most bw I know still both want and need a bm in their lives.
    My recent post it’s a celebration!!

    • Dr. J

      I think you are taking an excerpt of a larger conversation. When I say BW have eliminated the need for a BM, i'm talking about something a lot deeper. Like I alluded to in the post, BM's issues with jail, being dead, or being unemployed have put a lot of weight on the shoulders of BW to handle responsibilities that previously BM handled. BW are a lot stronger than we sometimes give them credit for, they don't NEED BM, they want them. I'm not finger pointing and saying, oh they trying to act like they don't need us. I'm saying, because of some things that have happened over time since slavery until today, they really are doing just fine when we're not present.

      • iamkeishabrown

        ok. i stand corrected.
        My recent post QOTW: what would an extra room in your home become?

      • Beef Bacon

        "I'm saying, because of some things that have happened over time since slavery until today, they really are doing just fine when we're not present. "

        Wow, look at that! Really! That's how you feel Dr. J? Black women are doing just fine!?????? Take a good look at the state of the Black Community as a WHOLE. What are you basing this off?

        Because we can get a damn degree, welfare, and section 8. Tell me how that has helped us as a people. I would much rather have more intact families in our community. If the black women was made FOR the black man, thereby being created AFTER the black man, it is safe to safe we need each other. There was need for me without you and you needed me otherwise I would not have been created.

        • Dr. J

          I was kind of talking to Keisha about something… and I think she understood my point. I think you're interjecting with a different topic and conversation and now is not really the time to delve into that subject. Nobody is disagreeing with you, you're just not on topic.

      • Bree

        Yeah ur right Doc J. It has become more of a thing where black women want more than need black men.
        I've thought about it like this: Man's two main roles in life since the beginning of time with regards to women have been to protect and provide. Now, women do not need a man to protect. She can get a gun or take tai kwon do and defend herself. And she doesn't need the man to provide because she makes enough of her own money. In fact, you have some women whose salaries far exceed men.
        So yeah I feel what your saying with this.

  • http://twitter.com/futuresatellite @futuresatellite

    Well speaking on priorities, since it seems to me there are a lot more women just standing around waiting to get "chose" — I'd say it looks like men either want to be completely successful and comfortable in established careers before marrying –which is understandable — or there are men that are only interested in playing the field for as long as possible. Doesn't leave a whole lot of options for marriage minded young ladies.

    I think the idea of marriage has been skewed in the minds of not just men but also women. Marriage needs to go back to being about marrying your best friend, marrying someone that you can't see not being in your life. It seems so simple of an idea to want to have a relationship with someone you genuinely enjoy but I think dating these days makes it difficult to find that. Social media and texting make it a little more difficult to break through barriers and the phases of getting to know someone. It's so easy to lose interest in someone when you barely see them or talk to them face to face.

  • http://www.singleblackmale.org/author/wisdomismisery WisdomIsMisery

    Good piece. I have a lot to say…

    I agree with everything you've written here today. I also agree that this is indeed a different take an old topic, so I'm going to do the same. My opinion likely won't be popular but it is what it is.

    First, I want to give some context because this debate doesn't make much sense to me. Over 70% of black men AND women will marry by the age of 40. At least this was true in 2010, although men and women of all races are marrying less. It's strange that we often analyze black men and women or men and women in general's failure to marry instead of assessing the possible failure of marriage as an institution. If everyone stopped buying the iPhone, we wouldn't say "there's something wrong with the population!" We'd assume something about the iPhone isn't as desirable as it once was. Using this analogy, maybe marriage simply isnt the "best product" on the market anymore and more and more people – of all races – are realizing this. Further, marriage is by and large an American construct. This country has one of the highest marriage rates of all developed nations. I'm not saying this is good or bad. I'm just giving context. What I am saying, is that this idea of "you have to get married" or it reflects on your as person, your maturity, or station in life is largely an American belief. It's about as authentic as you have to spend 3-months of your income on an engagement ring (said with irony).

    Anyway, here's the unpopular part of the discussion. Again, Over 70% of black men AND women will marry by the age of 40. We can debate the reasons why black men marry later but it's really not a debate of whether black men and women get married. And before some jerk talks about interracial marriage, please keep in mind that CNN reported "29% of all Asian newlyweds married someone of a different race, compared with 26% of Hispanics, 17% of blacks and 9% of whites." The point is that all of these "marriage" discussions are reflective of 30% of the population. The majority of men and women who want to get married, will. Now whether they'll be happy and/or stay married is a separate discussion given the divorce climate in this country. Basically a minority of people are driving a majority of the discussion. That's not saying 30% is insignificant or that it's not higher than it's ever been and continuing to grow. However, I do slightly disagree that a man remaining unmarried reflects on his immaturity, unless we can say that a woman that wants to be married that continues to knowingly date a man that does not want to be married is equally immature.

    I personally plan to marry, because that is a goal I have for myself as a man. I will say, that marriage, for me, has in fact been independent of other goals I wanted to accomplish in my life. I also was never driven to marry by age. I've been driven to marry by when I'm ready and meet the right woman, whatever age that may be, even if that age and time never arrives. I've got my eyes open for a woman I can "put a ring on." This isnt the case for all men. Honestly, I think that's their right. I also don't assume that every woman wants to marry, which is also her right.

    • bellatrice1

      "Over 70% of black men AND women will marry by the age of 40. "

      I think you fail to see that THIS ^^^^^ is the problem. By age 40, my eggs are all dried up and my chances of having a healthy baby decrease significantly. This is why women are said to have a BIOLOGICAL clock. Our desire to marry young is not just because we just want to be married. Most of us want to have children. You fail to address the time factor and how it pertains to having children, which is one of the main reasons people get married in the first place.

      The women I know who are anxious to get married want children. Women who don't want kids aren't usually as pressed to marry by a certain age. This SBM "problem" is specific to a certain age group, early 20s and 30s. That's why many of the women that comment are frustrated.
      My recent post Embarrassment Parenting is the New Time Out

      • WisdomIsMisery

        I see what you're saying but this is a different topic. I'm saying (most) black men and women get married. You're saying they're not getting married early enough – to have kids and other goals. That is a different topic. Specific to that topic, I'm not sure I agree or disagree. Should people rush into marriage simply to have kids? Rushing into a poorly developed marriage so you can have kids doesn't seem like a victory by any means.

        While I didn't say this above, I can't help but repeat myself. If women (or men) want to be married they should focus or perhaps even limit their dating options to only men (or women) who feel the same way. Seems a lot easier than forcing a man (or woman) to feel the exact way you feel about a subjective subject at the exact same time you feel the way you feel. If you want to get married "today" and he wants to get married "eventually" that's a different discussion than you want to get married and he does not want to get married at all. But, either way, you need to decide – sooner than later, apparently – whether this is the man or woman for you. You clearly have different life goals and timelines for achieving them.

        Just my thoughts.

        • http://inanimatethoughts.blogspot.com Animate

          Excellent response.
          My recent post Murci, Murci Me

        • bellatrice1

          It's actually not a different topic. I understand what you're saying, black people are getting married. Yes. However, your statistic explains why so many of us conclude that "black people (especially men) aren't getting married.

          It seems most of the people commenting are in the 20s and 30s, so we're at the age where we hold the belief that black people aren't getting married to be true. We look around and we hear and see black men talking negatively about marriage and shunning its importance. So, it would follow that Black men aren't getting married. That's the reality right now, and the reason why some would venture to say that maturity plays a role in when Black men decide to marry.

          So, I don't disagree with your argument that black people are marrying, but stating the obvious, that they are doesn't help anyone understand what role maturity plays in when they decide to marry or whether they will marry at all.
          My recent post Embarrassment Parenting is the New Time Out

        • WIM

          Ok, but I'm admittedly confused. So if you're XX age and you look at those around you and conclude because those around you exhibit X trait it must be true for all black men and women? That doesn't make a lot of sense. It also doesn't make sense statistically, as I pointed out above. That said, the reason you look around and see less and less black men/women married is because THIS generation (and if the pattern continues, the next few as well) are not getting married at the same numbers as the prior generation. But, this has been going on for years. Also, based on even the minimal numbers used by the census (from age 18+) something like 45% of black men and women are married. So that's 5 in 10 people. You're basically only using the side of the argument that supports your theory. It's like the 50% divorce rates people always quote. Yes 50% are divorced. That means 50% are married too. It seems, and I could be mistaken, that you'll only be satisfied when 100% of black men and women are married? Not only has that never happened. It will never happened. Frankly, no matter what we attribute it to – age, maturity, or other – there will be a percentage of people that will never get married by choice or situation. That's life.

          Also, while I see J's point in this piece. I don't personally believe maturity defines marriage or you have to be mature to be married. I know plenty of immature married people and plenty of mature single people. In that regard, perhaps you and I simply disagree. Which is fine, of course.

        • TheOthaSide

          I think his point is that Maturity doesn't have the value that is being placed on it with regard to why people aren't getting married…there are other factors.

        • Bree

          I'll play "devil's advocate" and say this also. There honestly is No guarantee that anyone will find the "perfect one" for them at the "Perfect time." We all "assume" we will, but our paths may never cross with that person; especially if your a person who doesn't travel outside of your city or state at all or very much. You won't meet many new people sitting at home chillin all the time or only staying in your comfort zone and hangin with the same people, goin to the same places and doing the same things. You may meet folks on the internet, but your seriously limiting ur chances of finding "the one" if thats the only source of social networking ur using.
          You may not cross paths with "the one" until your in your 60's. There is only so much control you have over you meeting the right person at the right time. You could meet hundreds of people of the opposite sex in a year, and none of those people will be the person u will potentially marry. A lot of times it's like craps, luck and timing.

        • Bree

          The other side to that Wis is how many of those who marry will get divorced before they make it to a 10 yr anniversary? Some folks who are now single were already married and don't wanna do it again. I know more divorced folks since I've moved to MD than I've ever known in my life. Not to say that they aren't in PA, but I just didn't know many divorced people in PA. And even people who were divorced were still real good friends with ex husbands and wives and their families. The thing that needs to be worked on beyond getting people to the point that they want to get married, is helping they to stay together.

    • blu_wire

      I am curious to know the source of your information? According to the last census only 44% of households headed by black folks were married. But you're saying that 70% of all black people will marry by the time they turn 40 years old?

      Even though we have never had a 70% marriage rate in the country for black Americans since they started keeping track of that data?

      Even though only about 51% of the entire country was married two years ago and the rate of marriage for everyone is actually declining?

      But somewhere between the questionable census tracking methods and the historic downward marriage trends country-wide, black folks will in fact buck all of these statistics and jump the broom in historic numbers if they want to, before the turn 40.

      Here's my link from my quick Google search for the census info. http://www.census.gov/newsroom/releases/archives/

      Please help with the name of the book or website that demonstrate that over 70% of black men and women will marry by age 40.

      thanks

      • PassTheDankPlease

        I believe it has something to do with the fact that black people also have a 70% divorce rate.

      • WisdomIsMisery

        I'm not sure if you're being ironic here. You were somehow able to use Google to find a statistics for your rebuttal but "at the same damn time" you couldn't use Google to find an answer? I guess. Forgot the exact source but after Google-ing the above phrase I stumbled on this: http://racerelations.about.com/od/diversitymatter… I'll assume my Google is different than yours.

        To your other points, yes they are all correct and equally misplaced. The stats you're quoting are annual marriage rates not rates for the entire race by age. You may also want to read this piece on the myths of black marriage in the media: http://www.empowernewsmag.com/listings.php?articl

        Thanks for the comment.

        • cynicaloptmst81

          LAUGH OUT LOUD at that first paragraph! LAUGH OUT LOUD!

    • Streetz
  • http://www.thinkprettysmart.com Ms. Smart

    I first noticed this when I turned 31. I had a good white male friend. We were born on the same day and same year. He said that for him, when he made it to 30 without a wife or at least a fiance, he was viewed as an immature failure because for him, and how he was raised, being a grown man meant being able to get a wife, have kids, and financially support them. We turned 31 and he was downright depressed. He’s married now, BTW.

    But…

    As stated up-thread, folks are acting like Black folks are just out here not getting married. This simply isn’t true, at all. Whether men don’t associate marriage with maturity or not, they are still getting married. And they are doing it mostly by their own choice because, contrary to the level of pressure the media puts on women to get married, most marriages start with a MAN asking the woman. This flies in the face of the idea that people aren’t getting married because it’s just a piece of paper that doesn’t mean anything. I think as people get older (and learn to use Google), they find that that piece of paper carries approximately 1400 rights and benefits for the couple. Those rights and benefits are usually what people (who know how to use Google), would want to give someone they love–as well as any children from that union.

    • Peter Parker

      So very true. As a black man myself, I have been a groomsman at 2 weddings so far this year and a groomsman in a total of 7 weddings since 2003. What I find interesting is most of my boys living in the south are the ones getting married. Not sure if it is a regional thing or not, but only three of my college boys in the DC area are married. I find as you move further north up I-95, dudes think more about getting money or their career, unless they were raised in a home where value was put on marriage.

      • bellatrice1

        I think it is a regional thing.
        My recent post Embarrassment Parenting is the New Time Out

      • Bree

        Peter I agree….If I stayed in NC after college I may be married with kids my damn self by now.
        I do think it's in part a DMV thing to a degree. From what I've seen and experienced in my almost 6 yrs here in MD, the focus is more on material possessions, status, wealth, degrees, and money more than anything else.
        When folks get married in the DMV it's actually a business deal and has little to do with love and anything else lofty or romantic. (joking DMV peoples, don't stone me). lol

        • Ms. Smart

          Wow. Most of the people around me are either married, divorced, or in a relationship that is leading to marriage. We all live in the D & M (eff the V!)

        • Bree

          lol at that last part about "the V" Ms. Smart. I was being facetious. I've met a few men originally from DC & Md that claimed they wanted to be married and settled down, but imo it was for the wrong reasons.
          I've met a few men that wanted to fast forward at lightening speed into a relationship and marriage and quite a few men who want a baby and want to "play house" but never really talk about marriage. I also meet men who talk "a good game" but don't back it up with actions.
          And I know quite a few divorced and seperated people Ms. Smart. I don't think the DMV is significantly different than most other states. I see a few differences but not a whole lot. At the end of the day we're all human no matter what city/state we rep and we all want the same thing, Unconditional & Everlasting Love.

  • Bree

    Doc J I don't completely agree with your friend. I think that may be just one possible reason for some men. I think many women in general tend to completely over-analyze the whole thing of why black men don't want to be married and/or in committed relationships, just as they over-anaylze why men cheat.
    I think it simply boils down to black men not being raised and reared to make marriage a priority. I think many black men do want to get married, just at the "perfect time" and to the "perfect woman" and most times that just never really happens at the same time. I don't see or hear about black men's parents telling them to settle down and marry a good woman once they get a good job. I've heard that some white mens fathers may tell them this. In order to fit into "the mold" in corporate America, it's best to be married. In the white community it's unheard of for them to be single parents unless they're divorce; and even then, they will remarry. A lady at my job met a man on Eharmony in her late 50's and remarried like 3 or 4 yrs ago. I heard this is her 3rd marriage. For white people this is part of their culture.

    • http://twitter.com/futuresatellite @futuresatellite

      Very true.

  • Bree

    To graduate from college, get a good job, get married, get a nice home with a white picket fence, have 2.5 kids, and live happily ever after. This is what's defined as the "American Dream." Black folks and other countries not born and bred here (originally) don't really have that same concept of the "American Dream."
    Other cultures, even Africans have some form of "arranged" marriage. From childhood they are prepped to be future husbands and wives. Back in the early 1900's there was home economics classes that taught girls to cook and clean and run a house and care for a baby and basically how to be a wife. Boys took shop and learned to work with their hands. I've never heard of anything where men were taught how to be husbands and prepared for marriage in the U.S. I do know that it's encouraged in Corporate America (and amongst white people)to be married. I think black men who work in Corporate America are more likely to be married due to peer pressure.

  • Bree

    Most black men I've worked with in my lifetime are married with kids, and most of the black men I see in church are usually married with kids. Which is why it's funny to me when folks talk about goin to church to find a good "Christian" single man. There really aren't many single men at all. From my experience the married men have always outnumbered the single men. I've never been to a church (black or white) where there were more single men than married men.
    The other reason why I think men don't marry is simply because they can get practically Everything they want from women without marrying them. Pretty self explanatory.

  • Beef Bacon

    Correction:

    There was NO need for me without you and you needed me otherwise I would not have been created.

  • Remi

    Great topic! I have had this conversation with a friend of mine before and I believe that this is exactly true. Although I have not completely given up on black men, I view black men differently. I almost expect that the person who I end up marrying will most likely not be a black man. Many black men I know would love to be single for life and I’m all set with that.

  • LadyRazorback

    Why buy the cow? I believe a lot of women (not all) make it easy for a man to use them up without a commitment. I see it all the time. Black women have to be smarter and stop allowing so much.

  • Alakaii Hawaii

    I always wondered what it would be like to encounter a virtuous man. I don't really concern myself with what it takes to be a virtuous woman I just grit my teeth and dig my heels in and stop talking. Men will pretend to understand but they never will. The world hurts. If you ever actually stop to care about it, it hurts. If you ever stop to "love thy neighbor" it hurts. If you keep to yourself and try to live a moral life, it hurts. It hurts maintaining the qualties men look for in a wife and by the time you get around to one either way, she's wounded. The world does it or other men do it but the common factor once you get to her is, you have no idea what you're doing. For whatever reason it amplifies everything else when it heals. It's like having someone set a broken leg and they don't know what they're doing and you know it. You're aware of how badly it's going to suck for you. Fully conscious. All-knowing. Not wanting to risk anything and wanting to do it all yourself because only you can feel it. Only you know how to make it feel better. and you can't help but think….aren't you supposed to know this too?

    • Alakaii Hawaii

      A man's love, no matter how tender, amplifies everything else. You become painfully aware of what you've been living in and everything in you wishes and hopes his course of action is in consideration of what's best for you. and I personally will never believe that it is. I don't think it's worth it. I don't have faith in men. You've gotta be my equal. Men live virtuous lives? ….? You can sync with my virtue? You can understand it, you can lead my life in good character? I feel threatened. Leave me alone. is how I feel about black men — but good job. Congrats on making it this far — but don't touch me. I don't trust you. You didn't get here the same way I did. You did to black women what the world did to us. I think I'd rather die. but it's comforting to be around the best of them. It feels like taking a nap. Peaceful.

      • http://youngheaux.blogspot.com Young Heaux

        Wow. I don't agree with everything you've said, but you have a very hypnotizing way of writing, like you could write a really great novel.

  • blu_wire

    I was really thoughtful about this article and explanation. At first blush it seems incredibly insightful and illuminating. I damn near had an “a ha moment” complete with the forehead-slapping “oohh..so that’s why.” But then I continued to read the comments and thought some more about the concept and the history of marriage and well, I had to tear up my check to Oprah for using her phrase.

    Marriage is not a sign of maturity. Any more than the pursuit of education and professional success a sign of immaturity. Historically marriage took place between very young men, who were guided not by a sense of maturity, but duty and social obligation to PICK a wife. Women historically had little agency over the choice as they socially, morally, and religiously hamstrung into the institution for social as well as economic protection. And that’s just the white folks.

    The sordid, socially decayed history of marriage the black community from the time of our first chain-strapped footsteps onto this land, when it may have been forced or forbidden; to emancipation when we sought and needed the economic, social and too often physical protection offered by the institution; to the dance with welfare and assistance program that demonized unions or the very presence of a black male in the home to present day. The twists and turns of socio-political forces that at once pushed the idea and pulled black Americans away from marriage makes questionable any claim that marriage, as an intrinsic institution, begets or suggests maturity in the wanting or having.

    We married for a myriad of reasons. And we likely do not marry for an equal number. It’s still economically and socially preferable to be married. It is still better to raise children with two parents rather than one, especially if both parents are operating at or below the poverty as a far too many of us are. But immature people get and stay married. They then cheat, lie, and divorce in record numbers.

    A marriage license is not evidence of mature man.

    Any more than having a child, or living with a women would be.

    But a really great article. Very thoughtful.

    • WisdomIsMisery

      Good points. +1

      • blu_wire

        Thanks.

    • Adonis

      SBM always has a place for smart, thoughtful, eloquent women

  • Thoth

    Just so I can understand correctly, I'm 29, no kids, hold 2 bachelor degrees, 4 classes away from completing my M.B.A., pay my own bills etc, yet I'm not mature because I don't want to get married? This doesn't make sense to me at all. I'm sure this won't be popular but I would like to tell my side of this. Bear with me:

    Why I'm single is because of two main reasons, first I don't see a benefit in marriage. A woman gains something tangible getting married (e.g. financial security despite her economic situation) but what does a man really gain? Please miss me with the whole "God said this or the Bible said that" argument. If that were true then the same should apply to women as well, but it doesn't. Any benefits a man may gain, he can have without getting married, so what does marriage add to the equation?

    Secondly, even though that's how I feel, I would still be willing to get married if I could meet the right person. I would like to be with a black woman but everyday it becomes more and more difficult to justify my wants. It seems that either a black woman already has kids and the whole mess surrounding that situation or they don't have any kids, they're educated, but almost impossible to talk to. I'm finding it easier to talk to women outside of black women. I don't want to go that route, but getting to know a black woman at times is like walking into a mine field blindfolded. You just hope you don't say the wrong thing…or look the wrong way…or anything else in the long list of things that will set them off. I think many black men are feeling the same way and only settling down when the absolutely have to which explains the later marriage ages of black men.

    This is just my opinion and how I feel. But I think this article and the tons of article just like this play into what black women want to hear; "It's all black men's fault". Tyler Perry and those like him made millions on playing to this topic. Oh well.

    • blu_wire

      What about children? A two parent home is still a far better environment to raise children than a single parent home. So if you intend/want children, then might I offer that as an answer to your question as to what marriage adds to the equation.

      But I agree with you generally. Marriage as an institution is still offers more of an economic benefit to women(and children). (Not to say that a combined income provides no benefit to men, just that it offers a greater benefit to women). Marriage as an institution has fallen out of favor generally. So you are not alone in failing to see the value in it. As a country, we are questioning the value of marriage.

      And no, maturity is not measured by your willingness to hand over your pay check to De Beers. Or is shouldn't be in any event. I don't think anyone can reasonably assess your maturity based on whether or not you have or want to marry.

      Now your inability to relate to women who look like your mother, aunts or the first lady, that's personal. Can't help you there.

      • Thoth

        Even though I wouldn't do it, a man can still have a child and even a home with the mother of his child(ren) without marriage, see Gene Simmons. I only mentioned the maturity aspect because the article states that black men don't associate marriage with maturity.

        I don't see it as an "inability" to relate to women that look like my mother and aunts, I see it as getting tired of trying to knock down a steel wall. I can understand being hurt and being on the defensive, but I don't understand taking it out on the next person you meet. I think this hurts black women more than anything. The next man must work twice as hard just to get to a level where the two people can find a happy level. I'm ready to build, not perform maintenance.

    • http://twitter.com/futuresatellite @futuresatellite

      "I think many black men are feeling the same way and only settling down when the absolutely have to which explains the later marriage ages of black men. "

      Absolutely have to settle down? Please explain.

      • Thoth

        I meant that they're no longer able to play the field, so they decide to get married. Some men may think "well I'm not getting any younger, might as well". This would explain black men getting married at a older age.

    • Bree

      Thoth the idea that marriage is a sign of maturity is societal. Some divorced people will pat u on the back and say good job not rushing into marriage. Some married and divorced people will say good for you having your degree, being independent and no baby mama's. They will tell u to Never get married.
      If u choose to not get married and have kids thats your choice. Don't let anyone tell you something is wrong with you because u made that choice. Your also correct that in the U.S. the woman benefits from marriage more than the man. This is not the case in all cultures, but in this one it is. That may change one day, who knows. I don't think Tyler Perry or this article or post play into what women want to hear and say that "it's the black men's fault." They just tell one version of the truth.

    • PassTheDankPlease

      Actually, there was a study I read that said black women benefit the least from marriage than black men and children. Married men live longer and have more wealth. The study even said that unmarried black women have better health than married black women. Check it out: http://www.americanvalues.org/pdfs/consequences_of_marriage.pdf

    • Adonis

      Check back for me in a couple of months. Thanks for sharing

    • CPT Callamity

      Thoth, you mirrored my sentiments exactly. Keep pushing bruh.

    • cynicaloptmst81

      "It seems that either a black woman already has kids and the whole mess surrounding that situation"

      Man, these baby mamas/baby daddys out here are giving Divorcees w/kids a bad rap, lol. The baby mama/baby daddy-type super messy/dramatic situations are more sensational and get the most "coverage"…but it is NOT the norm…not in my circle at least. *shrugs*

      One of my closest gfs was on the "no kids" tip till she met her current husband…who was worth the adjustment.

      #rantover lol

  • Bree

    More brotha's should become dating coaches and relationship counselors and coach and counsel other young men. Instead of tearing women down amongst each other, uplift the black woman. Instead of schoolin young brotha's on how to sex a woman good, school them on what it means to be a good man to a good woman. School them about being completely honest with women and not using and abusing them. Encourage them to go ahead and marry the woman they are with for a few years, instead of continuing to just shack with her for x amnt of years playing house and avoiding marriage like the plague. Teach young brotha's to step out on faith with women, love and relationships, instead of cowering to their fears.
    We need a lot more Paul Carrick Brunson's in the world in order to end the cycle of brotha's who don't want or intend to get married. We need more men teaching and reaching to change these negative stats that constantly claim black men don't want to get married, and poor black women are the most single as a dollar bill women of all the races. If we want change we can't just discuss it and blog about it. We must be the change we want to see.

    • Adonis

      You have just solidfied my arguement that Paul C Brunson has beta written in his DNA.

    • Uncle Hugh, BP

      I agree Bree, that more role models and examples of good marriages and relationships are necessary. That is why so many people supposedly believe Barack and Michelle are the only example of black love in today's world.

      • Bree

        Thats sad Hugh if so many people believe Barack and Michelle are the only example of black love. Thank God I had my parents, grandparents, aunts, and uncles and even friends of mine who are in very healthy and happy marriages.
        This is the root of the problem. The best examples need to start within the family.

        • Ladey

          Amen but unfortunately most of us don't get to experience that healthy relationship between a man and a woman in our youth. I was one of them. I had to learn the hard way how to choose a decent man of substance. Since I have learned that in my early 20s, it has been almost impossible to find in a compatible male partner. Even other decent men will admit that most of the bm out here are on nonsense and not worth the time. Most men in general who prefer women of color seem to be on nonsense that a majority of us would not be satisfied with.

          I don't make this stuff up and would stop talking about it if I got what I wanted and stopped being a witness to the nonsense so often that I can't help but notice it. It really isn't my fault.
          The world is wicked and life is completely unfair. Hetero black women really do have it the hardest because the game of life and twisted. Pray for acceptance and not to continuously fall victim to these useless men out here. Women are gonna always talk and question things like this because we want unconditional love and it is all natural. We were put here to be a man's companion not his harlot.

    • Ladeey

      You sound exactly like me. This is what I tell these clueless bm out here, whether educated or not only a very small amount seem to comprehend actuality on this topic.

      Not sure what state or city most of these sistas (age 25-35) on here are from but it"s certainly odd that most of us around the same age range can agree on the nonsense that most of us have experienced regardless of what we are like. I'm 32. Wow, we can't all have a bad attitude and simply not behave in the manner that these so-called men think is acceptable. Hmmm? Aren't men suppose to do the leading? The opposite is apparent in the black race, no wonder why.

      A healthy, heterosexual two parent home is better.

  • Uncle Hugh, BP

    Reading a lot of these comments, I have a question. Why is it most people are viewing it as black men's fault? There are over two million couples getting married each year (I'm going to assume most of those aren't lesbian couples), therefore you can't say men aren't getting married.

    There are several marriage-minded men out there. When this is pointed out, women say they have other requirements and won't marry just anyone. All right, then why is it when a man doesn't choose you for whatever reason, it's his fault?

    Don't get me wrong, many men are focused on career and aren't rushing to get married, but many women are focused on career and aren't trying to get married either. Why aren't the marriage-minded women going after the marriage-minded men?

    • http://twitter.com/futuresatellite @futuresatellite

      *shrug* 1 marriage minded man + 1 marriage minded woman =/= compatibility.

      • Uncle Hugh, BP

        @futuresatellite: "*shrug* 1 marriage minded man + 1 marriage minded woman =/= compatibility."

        Exactly. So why is the onus of women not being married being mainly placed on the men (according to most of the comments here)?

        • http://twitter.com/futuresatellite @futuresatellite

          "Exactly. So why is the onus of women not being married being mainly placed on the men (according to most of the comments here)?"

          I didn't conclude that the onus is on men from the comments here–but this article is about "why black men are single" normally it's the other way around "why are so many black women single?" and in those comments the onus of not being married is usually on women. It's a double standard really. This site is mostly comprised of men so yes it is your term to be offended.

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          I'm not offended in the least.

          My point is there is a problem, but it is response is always "men need to man up!" That is understandable, because most of the commenters on this site are women and people are speaking from their experiences. But the women yelling loudest are the ones looking at one particular man they want to marry, while ignoring all the others that want a chance with her.

          It's rough out there. It's understandable why women are frustrated. But people, men and women, have to take an honest assessment and start asking if they are part of their own problem and if they are going after like-minded people.

        • Adonis

          But the women yelling loudest are the ones looking at one particular man they want to marry, while ignoring all the others that want a chance with her.

          Dem other ninjas gotta wait until she 40 & washed up.

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          That is a good point that hasn't been brought up. One reason why so many black men are single is because several women aren't checking for the average marrriage-minded man when they are young.

          When many women are in their early 20s, they aren't looking for the average guy, they are looking at the alpha dogs. Then when the average guy reaches some success and those women are reaching 30, the tables are turned and those men have several women coming after them. Many of those men are butt-hurt from being rejected by those very same women when they were younger, Now that they have the upper hand, those men are getting their Solomon on to make up for being burnt in their earlier years.

        • Bree

          and Hugh some of the men that women don't want to commit to for whatever reason in their 20's are now Married to another woman. I admit, with me this is the case. Men I rejected in college and in my 20's are now happily married. Can't say I blame then and not mad at them. It is what it is. One thing about most all men is this; when one woman rejects them, they will move along fairly quickly to someone else. What one person doesn't one, someone else always does.

        • goodwholesomegirl

          Then explain why I am a 22 year old female without black male suitors at my door.

        • Bree

          good point Hugh….folks need to start checkin for the people who are checkin for them and stop checkin for the people Not checkin for them.

        • Ladey

          Amen, sista. Preach! Black men are so quick to turn things around. Stop pointing fingers and observe why black women all over in multiple blogs and dating articles CONTINUOUSLY are seeing and saying basically the same thing repeatedly. It has to be some truth to this dating thing because a majority of us keep experiencing the same thing or noticing it with other women we know. The age range is usually the same as well and we are all over the U.S.

          When they holla about the black couples who are married most of them are older blacks over 45 & up. I have always worked around older black women who are married. They are usually the backbone and/or bread winner of the family. In my experience, the husband was usually in bad shape health wise so the wife would have to adjust her life to being his healthcare provider and/or nurse on the side of working and providing for the family. There was always 1 or 2 younger blacks my age who were married or engaged. Most of the younger black women were patiently trying to find a decent, employed man to court them. All of them had a history of losers who mistreated them. The very far and few younger, attractive black men who kept themselves up just as the females did whom were my age were super independent. Whether they were working on higher degrees or content they were either color struck, narcissistic, and/or playing the field with quality bw who tolerated sharing them in hopes that they'd be the chosen one when it was all said and done. They were like little kids in a candy store or a lazy manager sitting back with their fit on a desk enjoying all that life offered them, high-fiving each other about how "playa" they were. Smh.

    • WIM

      What Hugh said. lol We >>>here<<<

      Seems it's only a problem when a woman wants to marry and the man doesn't but if the man wants to marry and the woman doesn't, he's just got to deal? Hmmm.

      • paulb31

        Exactly. Maturity has now become "give me what I want, when I want it with no questions asked". That simply won't fly when men realize they have choices, and one of those choices is to not deal with it.

  • http://inanimatethoughts.blogspot.com Animate

    Too many people trying to have life their way on some made up time line.

    Look, I'm 30, almost married a year now. Marriage can be a sign of maturity but not the sole indicator. It's a culmination of things. If you want to get married, strive for that but you are no more or less mature because of your lack of it. Society can only dictate so much of your life. If you choose to believe or adhere to it is on you, but shunning people that believe differently doesn't help anything
    My recent post Murci, Murci Me

    • Ladey

      Are you married to a (non-biracial with two black parents) black women? If not then you're statement is not valid to me.

  • Ginny

    Whatever floats your boat I say, I understand Marriage just is not for everyone. Some people are content with where they are at and where they are going and they don't want to share that with anyone, or they don't really mind about leaving a legacy; they feel like whatever company they leave behind or business or whatever is their legacy that is what's going to be left behind. Or that is going to be the mark that is left behind, Some people like being by theirself and dying by theirselves it's simplier that way I don't neccessarily agree but more power to you.

  • WIM

    We seem to be assuming that every woman – black or other – desires to be nothing more than a wife to some man. I have to ask if the inverse is true: If a woman doesn't want to get married does that make her immature as well?

    • Mr_SD

      I think they deem that as " independent "…at least that's what Beyonce used to call it before she got married..lol

    • Bree

      Great point WIM…….A lot of career women aspire to be much much more.
      I've heard women who have been married for 10 years+ this is one of the more disappointing things about marriage for them as women. They feel like nothing more than "Mrs. so and so" and/or "so and so's wife" and "mom." They have lost their identity and sense of self. Lost sight of their hopes and dreams. Once the kids are grown and they are older, they struggle to find it and find their way in the world. It is a sad thing to see that in a woman.

    • Ginny

      Not at all The reason is unknown though she could be tired of the BS men have to offer or like I previously said they just prefer the simple life, not worrying about what they are doing in order to please the other person and saying the right stuff not to P*ss them off. They Just don’t want to deal with all of the extra stuff and vice versa for men.

  • Bree

    I propose this to the good, decent, educated, successful brotha's out here – How about you guys start mentoring young men in how to be good boyfriends and future husbands. If u have sons, nephews, younger cousins, younger brothers, or your a volunteer big brother, or you coach youth sports, teach the young brotha's how to treat women respectfully. Speak positively about monogamy, committment and marriage to them. There are supposed health benefits for married men and they tend to live longer according to medical articles and journals. This does make sense, because when u have someone taking care of u and looking after u and making sure u eat healthy I'm sure it makes a difference.

    • Adonis

      I agree, but all these men that we mentor will end up with non-black women if the women don't get the equal but different mentoring

      • Bree

        not necessarily Adonis. Women are mentored and given advice about men all the time. Thats pt of what this blog is all about. Giving women insight to the male perspective on things and into the male mind.
        I think good mentors would be couples who have been married 20+ years.

        • Adonis

          You are under estmating how naive & stupid young 20-30 year old black women are, minus you & your friends of course

  • http://www.aworknprogress.com Diana

    I am really beginning to wonder about this Black men don't "get married" meme that has been going around and hurting Black women's feelings. When I walk these DC streets, I see lots of Black men of varying ages, shapes and sizes, with rings on their left finger. Now whether they're happy and faithful is up for debate. But anywho… So now I'm wondering if maybe it's more so birds of a feather Black men don't get married…
    My recent post Why America is Beautiful Wednesday

  • Bree

    Great points Hugh. I've said this before. Women sometimes choose the wrong type of man for the wrong reasons. Men typically don't want to marry women who they feel are goin after their money or if they can smell desperation on them. They don't want women who want to get pregnant immediately after marriage.
    Some men want to get married but don't want kids, or don't want kids right away.

  • Adonis

    Before I read the comments & set off another firestorm… This feels like a half hearted "man-up" article, but it isn't.

    Your take is a very good one. And I will add to it in a moment.

  • Beef Bacon

    " Why aren't the marriage-minded women going after the marriage-minded men? "

    Hugh,

    I think some women really feel as if they are going to change a brother's mind. I see some women try to wait out the other chicks they know dude getting it in with. I don't know the likely hood of that actually happening. A woman has two options: stay, wait and hope he does marry her or move on not knowing what she may actually get. I would choose to move on because, I like trying new things and I am not afraid of the unknown. Furthermore, if he is not on the same page,why waste my time. Time cannot be replaced. I don't do timelines,but I will not let a man use me up either. You can't be afraid to make that hard choice.

    A man standing in front of witnesses and The Creator vowing to honor a woman says a lot. It says that he is at least willing to try.

    Many women are also in denial about what they really want. They pretend to be okay with just kicking it and being his boo when really they want more.

    • Uncle Hugh, BP

      ” A woman has two options: stay, wait and hope he does marry her or move on not knowing what she may actually get. I would choose to move on because, I like trying new things and I am not afraid of the unknown. Furthermore, if he is not on the same page,why waste my time. Time cannot be replaced. I don’t do timelines,but I will not let a man use me up either. You can’t be afraid to make that hard choice.”

      I give this comment all manner of cosignage.

    • Ladey

      Thank you, I don't do side bench. It's not because of pride but it is my tolerance that will not allow it. I, like anyone with a vagina could get that all day long. That is what escorts, prostitutes, strippers, and sexual entertainers are for. Don't listen to what this world tells you and that liberated "independent woman" talk is a trick in disguise. I live in truth and despise the lie. I can't fake it. I don't play games but I peep and observe them well. "Be as wise as a serpent & as innocent as a dove".
      Women of God, you gotta live right even if it means being celibate forever. Don't some of you notice that when you give your body, you lose your mind? Lol, forreal dough. It is better to cherish your temple than be polluted by some heartless man bent on deceit. You will suffer the consequences. Why even take that chance until he proves who he really is.

      I might sound crazy but Ima witness, when you are true and you love hard, accept that you are too valuable to be some fool's sidehoe. Do not allow it. If he loved, valued, or respected you he would not allow it either. Are you really ok with receiving crumbs instead of the loaf? Protect your heart and your health, do not expect that any man will do that for you.

  • Lex

    I think a lot of men avoid romantic commitment for immature reasons now. This trend of praising selfishness, superficial elitism & detached emotion encourages more men to shirk any effort & responsibility relationships require. I know plenty men approaching middle age who speak of the wives/nuclear family they want, but refuse to do the minimum to keep a girlfriend around. I'm sure there are some immature choices, priorities or thinking going on there.

    In many cases women pass up marriage for other pursuits, but don't blame them entirely for this trend. If there are less & less Black men likely to be available for Black women to depend on, focusing on self-sufficiency seems like an obvious necessity. Yes, many Black women are chasing achievements like their lives depend on it because their lives can't depend on men who are terrified of/too selfish/too lazy for marriage.

    • adonis

      Please sit down. The crime marriage minded black men have done to black women is be boring to them. That's it…

      BW take black men for granted and now have to make loneliness & cats their companion

      • Ladey

        You're bitter. Don't be mad because some big behind chic didn't want you. There are so many attractive, quality bw too chose from. It is not that way on the flip side. Just because a man is nice to me and "marriage minded" does not mean I should settle for him, if I'm not physically attracted, we have zero in common, and he can not hold an interesting conversation to save his own life.

        I might as well be in an arranged marriage like some easterners or marry primarily for financial gain. If I want in for love, am I wrong for wanting a man that makes me laugh, turns me on physically & mentally, whom I don't mind sharing my life with on a daily basis?

        Many women end up settling for men whom they are not attracted to because his boring, unattractive butt was the one who was willing to marry her. The one who set her on fire might have been a prowling dog. Either way, I'm not that good of an actor.

        Do you want an unattractive, bad built woman who has no personality, boring, you share nothing in common with her, can't cook, and she is lame in the bedroom? However, she worships the ground you walk on and you know she will love you more than most women will.
        Besides, men tend to be very selective when it comes to a woman's physically appearance, especially black men. Heck, I was told that I was pretty but too petite. Am I gonna go out and get fatter for the sake of a man? Nope, I took it as a compliment and moved on. Thank goodness, Ima slim thickey, lol.

        • Trixanna

          Someone talking some dang sense. I get so tired of black men…men period that expect a woman to fall at his feet just because HE'S interested. What about my desires and wants in a mate? It does no one any good to marry someone that you don't love. Or, are not attracted to. It's interesting, if men took their own advice and married someone who was "nice", but didn't float their boat, I bet they'd shut the hell up. But, then most men feel entitled to the finest, baddest chick even if they themselves are rockin' a one-pack and not a six pack. SMH.

  • theoldspeakjournal

    This post is silly. The whole argument is based on a flawed premise, that engaging in a monogamous marriage and I'm assuming a monogamous relationship = maturity. It's just not true. Marriage is a contract. Marriage is system of control where women have historically and in many societies and cultures continue to get the unfavorable end of the deal. Marriage is not for everyone. We're just conditioned to believe it is. There are alternative relationship structures like bigamy and polygamy, they've arbitrarily been deemed illegal, taboo and deviant. There's a reason over 50% of monogamous marriages end in divorce/separation. People do it for all the wrong reasons to conform to their conditioning and appear "normal" and "successful". Maturity has nothing to do with marriage. It has to do with accumulated life experience, mastering certain life skills and the aging process. Nothing more.
    My recent post Obama Admininstration Helps Undermine U.N. Arms Control Treaty While Touting Record-High Weapons Sales Abroad

    • http://youngheaux.blogspot.com Young Heaux

      The post is not silly. You're silly. To commit to one person, grow together and build a foundation, have children, and truly be devoted to each other for the rest of your lives is the ultimate stage in maturity.

    • http://youngheaux.blogspot.com Young Heaux

      And I'd really like if you cited how polygamy has worked out historically in "favorable" conditions for women…like seriously.

  • Laney

    I can't say I do not disagree with the post. Any type of committed decision to me could be viewed as a sign of maturity depending on the person. I once knew a guy who was hell bent on buying a motorcycle. I asked him why he hadn't gotten one yet. He told me he thought about every year and every year would decide he wasn't mature enough for one yet (very unique individual). He'd explained that he'd get the bike, do something reckless and stupid and land himself in jail. Now, there aren't many people that equate 'having a motorcycle' as an act of maturity but for him, it was. His ownership of a motorcycle was symbolic of reaching another level of maturity in his life. That's an extremely elementary example but I hope the point is somewhat in there.

    What I got from the post is that once upon time men did view marriage as a sign of maturity/being a man/etc whatever. I don't disagree with that point. Presently that is no longer usually the case. Marriage is no longer one of those accomplishments that are a sign of maturity. Whether that holds true or not, I believe depends on the person. For some, marriage is a sign of maturity and for other it is not. I don't think there is necessarily anything wrong with marriage not being in an individuals box of 'signs of maturity,' nor do I think the post is trying to say that not getting married is a sign of immaturity.

    I think it's simply pointing out the mindsets of people are changing. I get the point. If a man no longer associates marriage with a sign of maturity, then the drive to get married isn't as 'intense.' That is not to say that men do not want to get married but as men have expressed here, it isn't something that is meant to define them and therefore not something that would make them feel 'less of a man' by not being married. A stemming result of this could be 'why so many black men are single.'

    Interesting. If you were to talk to my grandfather he would say that he was raised on the principle of marriage defining a man. That's just what it was for him. Find a wife, take care of her and your home and you have done your job as man. However, presently we don't raise the boys in my family like that at all. I do see the possible correlation. Causal? Not really but correlation? Definitely maybe.

  • Adonis

    I do believe that as black men we do not associate marriage with maturity so to speak.

    But I also believe that financial status , current hookup culture, ( alot of low status BMs have not learned how to project alpha traits that black women see as attractive ), lack of strong male leadership (fathers), & low quality BW overall plays into it more.

  • Mortimer Snerd

    It seems that women think EVERYONE will be happy if they are partnered up. Some people aren't meant to be married…if more people realized that, there would be less f'ckd up marriages and divorces in the world.

    • CPT Callamity

      Thank you for this.

  • Tabb

    One thing I haven’t seen mentioned (or perhaps I missed it and if so, I apologize) is the lack of role models. Consider how many black children grew up in single parent households or households with dysfunctional parents during the 70s, 80s, and 90s. Those children grew up with little to no models that demonstrated how to nurture and maintain a successful marriage. Now they’re adults, and behaving in ways that are congruent to how they were raised. Much of what we believe, value, and do in life is simple mimicking of various behaviors and attitudes we observed as children. The fact is, no matter how well adjusted one may think they are, if they were raised by a single parent, they have no visual evidence of how to treat their future spouse on a daily basis. They had no examples of how to work through difficult situations through communication resulting in positive resolutions. They had no examples of how to demonstrate true love and affection. They had no examples of the “good parent/bad parent” act that is classic when raising children within the context of a two parent household. At the end of the day, I don’t think this is a black male or a black woman issue. This is a black community issue.

    With that being said, perhaps marriage as an institution has run its course. Marriage has historically been an economic arrangement, a social construct. There’s nothing magical or cosmic about it. It existed solely to provide security for the “weaker” gender in order to ensure procreation and prosperity for society at large. As a result, if the economic pressures have now been weakened due to women’s lib and procreation has been largely unaffected as evidenced by the high rate of children being born out of wedlock (although I personally believe that children raised in a two parent household benefit from developing interpersonal skills, once again through mimicking, with the opposite sex), perhaps it’s time we take a hard look at the perceived need for marriage itself. [Side Note: If black women feel it's so hard to find a black man of their own, perhaps it's time to consider rejecting monogamy and accepting polygamy or polyamory. At least, they'd increase the statistical likelihood of having the love, respect, appreciation, and consideration that they're waiting/looking for.] At the end of the day, I believe the law of attraction holds true. If you want a spouse with similar interests and values, develop those interests, hold true to your values, and most of all be openminded. The need (some may say preference) to marry another black person eliminates such a large number of eligible mates unnecessarily. If you instead seek to maximize the statistics, your future spouse may not necessarily look like you (i.e. be black), but if you walk through life seeking to become the best person you can be and don’t compromise your beliefs and values, the right person WILL come into your life. The key is to be ready when they arrive as, just like any other opportunities in life – professional, personal, or otherwise, great opportunities only show themselves in life so often. If you’re not openminded enough to receive that person with open arms and an open heart, you will unfortunately miss out, and have no one else to blame but yourself at that point.

    –Tabb

    • Ladey

      Assuming that you're a bm. It's so sad that you are one of the few men on here, who is able to write a comment in complete sentences with evidence that you hold some form of education. A degree in sociology or psychology, perhaps? However, your view in the second paragraph is contradictory and comical. You lack an understanding of women in general.

      It is true that some marriages have been arranged for economic and social reasons, throughout time. When have black Americans partaken in this gain? Biblically & historically speaking, procreation was an important factor which made polygamy appear acceptable. However, polygamy was never correct in the eyes of the righteous. This world is also currently overpopulated. It is not needed and unrealistic in the American society.

      If the topic is about how a majority of black men are single and do not see the importance of tying the knot then how in the hell do you conclude that they are willing to marry multiple women? First off, men with multiple wives, even in the biblical days (e.g. Solomon) TOOK CARE OF ALL THEIR WIVES, CHILDREN, & CONCUBINES (aka side hoes). Solomon had a great palace built for all of them.
      This has also been proven historically of worldly men as well. Since the bible does not go into great detail about everyone's emotions, we don't know how well women actually accepted this sort of lifestyle. I'm sure that they had to be separated in some fashion in order to live with each other. We don't know if it was peaceful or not. What we do know is that women have always been considered below or second to men so sharing a wealthy husband made more sense than being single, valueless, and having nothing during those days. In the end, multiple wives and their beliefs led to his destruction. He was the wisest and richest man, yet having multiple women was the reason for his fall and it made a fool of him.
      Just like when men play with multiple women's minds and bodies today and spread their seeds like a stray dog, they are made into fools. Now a days, their fall is called "child support", imprisonment for not paying it, back child support, baby momma drama, bitter vengeful women, domestic violence, STDs, out of wedlock babies, angry-untamed fatherless children, unwanted pregnancies, abortions and destructive communities around the US.

      Since most black women tend to be more successful and possibly make more or just as much as her male partner, what sense would it make for her to share a husband with other women? The more promiscuous men are the less likely are they to be able to continue to perform sexually. What a waste of time for a celibate woman (libido increases in most women 30 & up) who has been patiently looking for a decent spouse. Since black women tend to get married later and black men in general take pride in whoring around in their youth, bw end up screwed. Then you expect them to be open-minded about sharing a man who is worthless already. So, BW should surround this fool like he is a king? I guess he is doing them a favor by marrying them, isn't he? I mean, he is the GIFT after all, huh?

      If she is marrying for companionship, real love, a good-healthy sex life, a best friend, children, life enhancement, and a vow before God of their commitment, again, why would she be willing to share a man?

      This goes both ways but have you noticed how most people (men and women) who are in love with someone become enraged with jealousy (whether wrong or right) at the thought of sharing that person with someone else? They also tend to be selfish in love as it was intended.

      So, you're basically saying that since good, marriage minded black men outnumber black women and bw usually prefer to stick with bm or tend to have less options than other races of women when it comes to MARRIAGE that they should just suck it up, quit complaining and settle, oops, I mean become open-minded and entertain polygamy with men who have a little more than sperm to offer them?

      Hey, if you're single and dating black women, I strongly suggest you share these thoughts and try them out on them. As a matter of fact, invite them all to dinner at once in the same restaurant. Be completely honest and explain that you have been dating all of them at the same time. You decided that one is just not enough and you're ready to marry them all! Good luck, in your conquest, Tabb.

      Don't forget to come back and let us know with proven evidence how that works out for ya.

  • Mfam

    "That’s why when someone asks me, why are so many Black men single? It’s not a huge debate for me. It’s simple; because most Black men haven’t figured out how to associate a committed relationship with a sign of maturity. That’s my take."

    That would be nonsense, women who cant be alone and dont understand black men, who are also human beings, have feelings,needs,ideas and concerns that are different from their own are showing their immaturity. Its simply a shame game women like that play. I have seen it many times, they chase men who are unavailable and/or men who complement the womans personality (the negative partso f herself that the woman disowns and refuses to take responsibility for) and she blames "all black men" for her bad choices.

    Brothas are marrying when they want to and thats revealed only when the women complain about the very small amount of brothas marrying nonblack women.Brothas will marry when they want to, just as women decide when they are ready for marriage, but many women need to realize that they cannot treat marriage like they treat their sexual appetites(ie they can "get it" when they "want it" they just have to show availability to the first man they think will fit for the moment).

    • CPT Callamity

      Boom!

  • Valentina

    I've given up I'm BM a long time ago. There is a shortage and they know statistics are in their favor, so they play games. I'm tired of being taken through the ringer by black men, I'll more then likely end up married dating a non black man, if I cease waiting for the black man to get "ready."

  • beeserendipity

    i think a man, black or not will get married as soon as he thinks he's ready- which often times translates to being financially buoyant enough to provide for a family- and he thinks he's found the right woman -the one.
    as to the the reason why many bm are single, i can think of at least 3.
    1. Black men are confused. an average, made, single black man has at least 4 women at his call who he could get married to. they are appeal to him in different ways, they are all beautiful, and they all ''love'' him.
    2. Black men are afraid of choosing the wrong woman to marry. Most black men hate divorce. they've seen first hand what it could do to men, the children and how it impacts the society at large so they want to get it (marriage) right with the right woman. they realize that women can be tricky. a woman can camouflage and pretend to be someone she's not just to get a man to marry her. she gets married and turns out to be the very opposite of the sweet, kind, gentle being she portrays herself to be before marriage. this scares them and makes them rather just stay single till marriage can happen.
    3. Black men still think that falling in love is the criterion for having a serious relationship or getting married. they refuse to accept that love is something you grow in, not fall in. Attraction may happen but love doesn't and the right woman is not necessarily the woman that wows you with her beauty or her accomplishment.

    • Bree

      Beeserendipity all this was spot on.

  • MuslimMusa

    And your Lord Most Wise says,
    1 . O mankind! reverence your Guardian-Lord, who created you from a single person, created, of like nature, His mate, and from them twain scattered (like seeds) countless men and women;- reverence Allah, through whom ye demand your mutual (rights), and (reverence) the wombs (That bore you): for Allah ever watches over you.

    2 . To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own.For this is indeed a great sin.

    3 . If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

  • MuslimMusa

    Out of the many pathologies that exist with the black male as to commitment, one that is mostly left out is the fact of polygyny. Many non muslim men due to their religions are taught that having more than one wife is unlawful in the site of the Creator, despite the fact their religious books contain many examples of polygyny and the fact that today 80 percent of the wolrd practices some form of polygamy.
    Many women fail to see that taking away of polgyny was to THEIR DETRIMENT. Many women like to boast of how they will never be a second wife or never engage in polygyamy, but the fact is with many of you being 30plus and unmarried yet still dating, you are already involved in polygamy. None of you are ignorant enough to believe that your "boyfriend" of x amount of years is only gettin it in with you.

  • MuslimMusa

    It is no accident that women outnumber men, it is no accident men have no biological clock, it is no accident many dont attach many emotions to sex, and its no accident that man put of the relatively new idea of monogamous marriage.
    So long as the law of the united states or any other man made law is preferred of the Creators, you can ALWAYS expect havoc. Now i certainly believe that the men who engage in reckless behavior will be called to account, but you can't change the rules of nature and expect order.
    AND AGAIN this is just one of many causes of men not taking on marriage, I am not saying that this is the only reason, but it CERTAINLY is a major one. You don't believe me?
    Take a random personal poll of how many men you know who has only been with one woman in their lifetime? Ask them how many only want one woman for the rest of their life?

  • MuslimMusa

    And if all the trees on earth were pens and the ocean (were ink), with seven oceans behind it to add to its (supply), yet would not the words of Allah be exhausted (in the writing): for Allah is Exalted in Power, full of Wisdom. Sura 31:27

  • YeahDotDotDot

    aI could be wrong, but I don't think the post is off. The key word for me is 'perception.' I also think the perception that married couples are more mature leads to divorce, domestic violence, extra-marital affairs/children, std's, etc. The refusal to admit that you may need to grow up is cancerous. We can all agree that there are all kinds of married couples out there, with various levels of maturity-and singles as well. Maturity is knowing what's best for you as an individual and making choices that support that knowledge. What is good for our community, is also good for us. So, if you have no business getting married and having children-DON'T! If you know what marriage requires and feel it is for you, make choices that don't reduce the possibility of getting married-THAT IS MATURITY! Even if you don't agree with the post, we have to recognize the relationship betrween maturity and the challenges we face as a community. Not to say matue people don't have marital issues-by definition, they are better equipped to deal with them., leading to a greater chance for success.

  • http://twitter.com/AltThesis @AltThesis

    Let me see if I am clear…

    The entire basis of this post was the opinion of one woman? One woman who admittedly "royally roasted everything about Black men?" It is interesting that this woman "royally roasted black men," however, you made no mention of her discussing what was it about her that caused her to continue interacting with these black men? Why even give someone with obvious issues with black men country? Based on that, it is really difficult to give any of this post validation.

    That being said, this concept that “Black men do not associate committed relationships or marriage with a sign of maturity." There are numerous ways this could be discredited. The fact that the "never married" percentage for women of all races, including black women sharply declines with women in their 30s. So are you and this woman telling me that according to those numbers, "black men do not associate committed relationships or marriage with a sign of maturity?" What a way to positively downplay their commitment to their women (since obviously, black men don't commit right)?

    Additionally, consider that there are black men who would love to commit, but cannot find a suitable mate either. Why are single, but willing to commit black men not considered in this statement? It is also troubling that this statement implies that all black women want to commit to black men, or commit in general. Believe it or not, there are black women who do not seek or value commitment? So what are the thoughts on these black men who are single, want to commit, but can't and the women who do not want to commit to black men or commit in general? Are they also painted as "immature" based on what you and this woman said?

    The most interesting point is again, the heavy emphasis placed on marriage and committed relationships as a sign of maturity. Any two people can get married; how does that spell "maturity?" How does marriage spell "maturity" when there are a lot of people today getting married for superficial reasons not related to marriage's so-called society evolving concepts? The marrying for status, to be the envy of friends, to advance at the expense of the other person (a zero sum game?) How is this mature? It was a sign of maturity years ago, but society fought for that paradigm shift for it not to be considered the only one. It is just ridiculous and given how society has multiple beliefs on "maturity," why should this one not be considered?

    Anyway, completely disagree with this article.

  • cynicaloptmst81

    Yall would post this on the ONE DAY I take off to go on a family vacation…to the rural south where T-mobile had no people, LMBO!

    I missed all this great convo! *shakes fists in the air*

    I did read the post out loud to my bf while we were on the road…gave us great traveling conversation. Thanks, Dr. J! :-)

  • Bree

    Welcome back Cyn….hope u had a good vaca….*smile*

    • cynicaloptmst81

      …just seeing this! Thx Bree…I sure did! :-)

  • CPT Callamity

    240 plus comments and I missed this whole exchange thanks to a busy work schedule.

    Now that I've read through, I will not add on as I might be guilty of repeating some ideas said before, but I do not agree with the whole Marriage = the mature thing to do.
    I don't want to write an entire book on my thought of this situation so maybe I will save it for an email for a deeper discussion. Frankly, I just want to live my life and marriage has never been the thing that I HAVE to do in order to feel fulfilled. For now I'm happy meeting different people from all walks of life, freedom to do what I want when I want and continue to grow without a lot of drama. It's not for everyone, but it damn sure works for me. Good luck to those hoping to tie the knot one day. Just remember to invite me, the single guy, to your wedding to eat up all your food and cut a rug with your single girlfriends.

  • rooseveltdunn

    sigh the usual black woman bashing black male rhetoric. The good black men have no issue marrying, they just choose not to marry women who feel all black men owe them something.

  • http://www.sonicbids.com/thesbp Stephen Beasley

    Being 32 and being probably 7-10 years from marriage (if at all) I don’t believe that marriage is a sign of maturity… I think its a pursuit for a mature person to make and an endeavor for a mature person to undertake when they have found someone who they feel is their life partner.

    Additionally, I don’t think we need to create any additional ways to put MORE pressure on Single Black Men. The plate is full and a large portion of us are doing our best to step up to it.

    Looking down upon a man in his 30s 40s or 50s for not being married and making him put to be some sort of pariah or feel “less than the next man” is recklessly judgement and ignorant. You don’t know how many times he may have proposed and been rejected, or been cheated on, or if he has had good relationships but just not THE relationship.

    As for the fairly large amount of Black Men who do choose not to marry… Being from Louisville KY we had to have a huge per capital rate of these guys growing up.. I used to call them “Mr. Fred’s”… yall know who im talking ’bout lol. But anyway, I would still not say that Marriage is the penultimate bench marker for maturity and that it happens for folks at different points in their lives.. so I guess what im saying “back up off a brother and let him live (the best way he can).”

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  • heyheynow

    idc about why they aren't in relationships where can I find the ones who are ready for one?….lol

    • Ladey

      I so agree. I'm willing to move to that wonderful place where decent, attractive, healthy, and employed men of all races prefer and desire to marry one black women.
      Then I wouldn't care what these idiots did. They could all move on an island with their nonblack baby momma's, immoral lifestyles, and klan members beause they ALL deserve each other.
      My hubby and I could laugh at them.
      The End, lol

      • Ladey

        *woman

  • Ladey

    *feet not fit

  • http://sbwomen.blogspot.com/ Dating in the City

    Interesting take and one that I have not heard prior. It makes sense, but I still believe black men more than any other race have a need to prove themselves. Not until they feel. satisfied with this will they feel comfortable taking a wife. To me this is the only reason and the real reason. How can you comfortably telling shorty to spend the rest of her life with you and you have nothing to offer. You can't! It's more in a black man's mind than anything else.
    My recent post SHIT PEOPLE SAY AND WHAT THEY REALLY MEAN

  • http://www.kokujininc.com Greg

    3 reasons black men aren't getting married.

    1. Black women who overlook the nice guys. There are virtually very few black women who give a black man that second look and show interest to him. Too many superficial reasons, lack of so called confidence that black men must have today that doesn't define true love at all. There are many black women or women in general who claim there are no good black men or too many black men cheat but never tell the truth. And the truth is that there are too many black women who diss, mistreat, neglect, ignore, laugh, disrespect, and simply don't want to have anything to do with let alone marry the nice black men out here who are actually willing to marry them. So basically some black men are not married because their are too many black women who don't want to be married by certain black men who are not incarcerated, speak proper english, are actually mature, and work for a living. Many of these black men are not pursued and when these black men pursue black women they treat them as if they are not good enough and this is the truth. Its very simple that many great, marriage material men are overlooked and dissed by thousands of black women each day so before pointing fingers a black men in general just think back to that square, l-seven, looking brotha who tried to take you out on a date to get to know you, who compliments you when other brothas just ask to hit that and then ask yourself could this guy have been my potential husband. Its really a no brainer.

    2. Black men who have all the options in the world but play games and beat around the bush. Then there are the black men who have good women, attractive women, intelligent women, or just plain women who love them but they are ungrateful and choose to cheat and sleep with every good looking female they come across. If more black women would choose better men then they would be married without a doubt, but you have a majority of them who choose dusty dudes and many nice, respectable men are shaking their heads at these types of sistas. No man who when you two were young is going to settle for you in the future when he has money and is stable after you dissed him and picked his childhood, college friend over him when hes older. We are men and men are competitive by nature. As nelly said, I am number one, number 2 is not the winner, and 3 no one remembers. hey. Im not bashing black women but you have to think of your track record and stop putting the nice guy last who actually loves you and is willing to provide for your offspring. Im saying this because ive grown up with so many brothas who never commit faithfully to one sista and if she was smart she would see it and leave but they think its funny and great to be with a guy who is banging their friend as long as they pretend as if its not going on. And another thing if you want a good man stop trying to find him at the club and vise versa for men too. There are no good women at the club, just one night stands.

    3. Black men who are afraid to get married and don't really love the women they are with but love the sex. Then there are the black men who spend years with a sista just to have intercourse with her. Her face may be unattractive to this guy but she has the greatest personality and shows him unconditional love, or her face may be attractive but she treats him like garbage, and her personality is horrid and have kids by other men. Depending on the type of guy this black men is no man wants to marry a woman who he isn't attracted to no matter how great her personality is or what she does for him. This is not the sista's fault. Its just nature for black men and how we view women. Advice for this sista is to find a man who lights up a big smile when he sees you instead of remaining with the jerk who is using you for sex.
    My recent post Dan dos Santos’s “20 Art Book Essentials”

  • B-more Brotha

    Many black men are single for a few reasons. One is compatibility. Too many people look for someone to love rather than look for someone who they are compatible with (personality wise).

  • B-more Brotha

    When you find someone you are compatible with then love will grow between both man and woman. People need to be patient and take time out to get to know each other. Men these days dont take the time to court a female (or as our grandparents called it, go calling on a woman). Also women dont make men do this without fear of rejection. Alot of comments I see all have to do with wordly things and I have to agree with that. Wordly things do not make a person. Dont get me wrong I think a man should at least have a stable job to support himself and be able to take a young lady out on a date, however doeshe have to pull in 6 figures, drive around in a Bugatti and live in a 20 bedroom mansion. Too many women focus on a man's material wealth rather than a man's spiritual and mental wealth. Cars break down, houses fall apart, jobs can be lost due to the economy.

  • B-more Brotha

    Another reason why men are single is because some women present marriage as a form of prison sentence. Think about it, you're not going to enter into a contract with anyone if you are going to be caged up. Grant it some things a man should have to give up because he is a married man, but why should a man not pursue the things he want because he likes those things. Ex. a man may want a dream car, no matter what kind of car it is. Not because he is trying to impress anyone but because he likes it and wants it. It shouldnt matter whether he buys that car or not as long he A)works extra hard to get it, and B) is able to get it while still providing for his family.

  • B-more Brotha

    Sometimes men feel as though marriage is set back because, in today's society marriage is seen as the end of freedom, coming and going as he pleases, spending time with his friends, etc. etc. Marriage should be a cherished point in your life that should never be forgotten. However everything is not for everybody.

  • B-more Brotha

    The first thing a man should do before entering into any kind of relationship is to examine himself and ask , "What do I want, do I want a relationship that leads to me having a family, or do I want to remain single." Being brutally honest with yourself saves alot of time and headache when it comes to dealing with relationships. If you cant be honest with yourself, then who can you be hojnest with. Another reason men are single goes back to my first point in capatibility. If your woman is the type that has to be in charge all of the time, and wants to treat you like her child and not her husband, then you have good reason not to want to me married. Men have to step up and take charge of their households the way its meant to be. Im not saying the husband and wife cant make decisions together, but its the man's job to lead and guide his house. A man does not need to be a caveman to guide his family.