Can A Man Ever Be Justified In Putting His Hands On A Woman?

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Over the weekend, I had a conversation with a group of my guy friends and I said the following:

“God gave women a rib, but he gave us strength and power to get away from women when they act out of pocket.”

I truly believe that statement which is why I’ll never condone putting my hands or any man putting their hands on a woman. That policy goes for everything too. Not just being the first person to act, or even being attacked and acting in retaliation. I just don’t think men should put their hands on women. Now it’s a lot of men and women who stand on each side of the argument. There are truly some women out there who think there are times when it’s okay to put your hands on a woman. Just last week, I was chilling with a group of women when one of them exclaimed:

“It’s just certain things I know not to say to my man, (but she said the dude I’m talking to, because you know how that goes), because he’ll beat my ass.”

I was so confused. How could you date someone with that type of potential inside of them? Not me, no sir, no way. Anyway, today this video of this bus driver is making its rounds around the Internet. It features a bus driver annoyed at a passenger and when he reacts. In the words of Bernie Mac, he beat her to the white meat. Plenty people are laughing at this video, I find it disgusting. Not only is it a man hitting a woman, but the guy is clearly much older than the girl. Not cool in my book.

But don’t let me be the judge, you take a look at the video and then let me know your thoughts as well. Do you think he was justified in his actions? Can you think of a time that would warrant a man to put his hands on a woman?  I can’t, but maybe you can.

As a reminder, SBM has decided to become an official sponsor/partner of the Ray of Hope Walk coming up on October 28th, 2012. SBM feels that in addition to providing content on the urban male perspective to our readers via our website and events, it’s important to have an imprint in our community. We are excited to work with an organization such as Omega Phi Beta Sorority, Inc. because of their longstanding and relentless work in spreading awareness about Domestic Violence and it’s affect on all of us.

Dr. J

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  • http://singleblackmale.org/author/WisdomIsMisery WisdomIsMisery

    I have a few thoughts.

    A few people on the Facebook page are questioning why we're covering this story. For one, this story is everywhere. I saw it on FoxNews first thing this morning. This is news and something that is an interesting topic, given that it comes up every few months (men putting their hands on women and vise versa). The video has long since gone viral, so questioning why we're covering the topic is ridiculous, but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

    Let's be clear, we wouldn't even be having this conversation if that was a man that punched and spit on the bus driver, regardless of her size, age, height, or any other factor. WSHH is filled with hundreds of videos of men fighting men and women fighting women and no one questions their motives.

    In this instance, I can't outright say the bus driver is wrong. What I can definitively say is the bus driver went too far. I personally believe that a man should never put his hands on a woman but what no one ever talks about is the fact that a woman should also never put her hands on a man. Everyone on that bus sat and watched that argument escalating and did nothing. In fact, most laughed as the woman – who for the record, the news reports is 25 years old – put her hands and spit on the bus driver first. Where were the calls of "she's a female" then? It's all fun and games until it's not fun and games anymore…

    At the end of the day, don't start none, won't be none. And that goes for men and women. Lastly, just as an FYI, it's my understanding that this incident took place in September and the video is only recently going viral. Also, the woman will be on a Cleveland news show this evening with her lawyer, so we'll get to hear her side of the story. But, this is the internet. Sadly, this will all be forgotten as soon as the next viral video happens, so I'm glad we touched on this subject and I hope a civilized conversation takes place today…but I doubt it.

    • Adonis

      but what no one ever talks about is the fact that a woman should also never put her hands on a man. Everyone on that bus sat and watched that argument escalating and did nothing. In fact, most laughed as the woman – who for the record, the news reports is 25 years old – put her hands and spit on the bus driver first. Where were the calls of "she's a female" then? It's all fun and games until it's not fun and games anymore…

      And Scene!!!

  • Maria

    I notice that women say that as well as if there are certain things that you cannot say or do that will trigger violent actions from a man and it be justifiable. It is never justifiable. If you ever feel so angry that you might hit another person then you need to express self control and walk away from the situation so as to diffuse it.

    I also really hate it when men say things along the line of "if you wanna act like a man, i'm gonna treat you like one" – physical violence should not be a character trait or behavior of males or females. It should not be acceptable for human beings to fight each other period.

  • Mr. SD

    That was a dope uppercut tho..lol

    • Bree

      Ur so wrong on so many levels for that Mr. SD.
      The only time a man should hit a female is if he is spanking or popping his daughter for misbehaving.
      Women should not do to men what they don't want done to them. Yes the bus-driver should've called dispatch and the police first. Because men are usually physically the stronger sex (whether women want to admit it or not) he should have tried to restrain her hands, (while keeping his legs tightly closed and protecting his nuts) and held her down. Can't much blame the folks on the bus not stepping in. They didn't know either of them and it wasn't their business and it's no sense in them being caught up in the crossfire and possibly hurt as well. Not only that, they don't know if one or both of them is packin.

      • Mr. SD

        I'm from the new school where no one lays a hand on no one. Many of dudes are laying in their caskets 6 ft under because they refused to hit a woman. Folks both male and female are crazy out here, you have literally pick your battles.

      • Not Your Friend

        PEOPLE shouldn't do to others what they do not want done to them. It's not a gender thing.

    • bellatrice1

      Ummm was the hit justified? Maybe. Was it funny or entertaining? No! This was not a boxing match and the man that hit her should not be glorified for his "technique" smh
      My recent post Why Men Should Hit on Women at Church

      • Mr. SD

        IDK every now and then its good to see someone get exactly what they deserved..she deserved that!

    • Dom

      Shoryuken!!

  • TBryant011

    People have to understand, as much as we make this out to be a man against woman incident…it's really just human against human. I recently did long ass drawn out report on "Human aggression and how the biological perspective affects it". I can conclude that everyone has a "ticking time bomb" inside of them. Once it is ignited, whether its ignited by man, woman, child, or animal; it doesn't matter. You can only push someone so far. Basically, if someone is backed into a corner they are going to come out swinging (both figuratively and literally). While I don't condone this one bit, I also take into consideration that everyone has their limit of what they can take.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending him really. However, I'm not judging either because we are all human. I don't believe that anyone has a right to put their hands on anyone. This includes women hitting men. I hate to be cliche', but If you put your hands on someone you need to prepare for the consequence. I have NO idea what I would have done in the situation. One of the rumored facts is that she spit on him. Most people would lose it if spat on.

    • cynicaloptmst81

      "I hate to be cliche', but If you put your hands on someone you need to prepared for the consequence."

      THIS! THIS! THIS! And I don't wanna hear NOTHING about what someone else shouldn't have done when YOU STARTED IT!!!!!!! She sowed seeds and reaped a harvest…on the spot. If he woulda killed her, that'd been all the way wrong. But he didn't…and she lived. Lets hope she learned as well.

      • Lia

        Exactly…

    • bellatrice1

      The "ticking time bomb" is definitely inside of us all. For me, it's being hit in the face. It triggers something in me that's nothing nice!

      "If you put your hands on someone you need to prepare for the consequence. "
      This too! My mother taught me never to hit men because if they hit me back…
      My recent post Why Men Should Hit on Women at Church

    • Young Heaux

      So true.

  • http://twitter.com/sylquesaid fixedwater

    When you put your hands on someone, you don’t then get to tell them how to fight you back.
    She should have kept her hands to herself.
    He didn’t have to respond the way he did, but he did.
    This part about spitting is news to me, but I know I read somewhere that people tend to take spitting worse than a hit. It explains so much.
    She needs to leave the whole thing alone, because she endangered the driver and the passengers trying to fight him while he was behind that wheel. Just plain unwise.

  • bklynstylekitty

    Rumor has it now that this so called teenager, is 25 years old. I do think the bus driver went too far, that closed fist made him look worse than her. As a woman, I would have open palm her behind. Both parties look bad nevertheless, the young lady in this video who was acting like a hood rat and the bus driver, by utilizing a vicious upper cut comes across someone who has underlining issues with women if you resort to that level of violence – without a care in the world

    To answer the question if a man should ever hit a woman, the answer is yes – but it depends on the situation. If a woman is assaulting a man and on the verge of inflicting series or deadly injuries (yes it has been done), then by all means a man should have the right to defend himself. I read an article a few years back here in NYC, a woman killing her spouse by beating him to death with her high heel shoes and she was a lot bigger than him – he didn't stand a chance.

    • BlueSteele

      I agree but in all honesty, woman to woman, every bit of West side Detroit would've surfaced and closed fist would have been the method…just saying.

      • http://www.iamrichjones.com Slim Jackson

        Blue, are you saying men from WS Detroit would've done what he did or that they would've come after him in an act of retaliation?
        My recent post How I Used LinkedIn As My Career Consultant

        • BlueSteele

          "As a woman, I would have open palm her behind."

          No no, In response to that quote I'm saying that I'd have to closed-fist her behind…open hand wouldn't cut it, lol.

      • bklynstylekitty

        I know that's right! lol

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  • http://inanimatethoughts.blogspot.com Animate

    From the bits I've read about it this morning, she hit and possibly spat on him before he hit her. The thing with teaching guys not to hit females is that it is rarely taught for females not to hit guys. They guy is just supposed to be the bigger person in all instances. Teach your kids not to hit anyone unless defending themselves. You don't get to make rules up on the fly in situations. I do think he went too far but I wasn't on the bus to witness the entire incident.

    Also, what WisdomIsMIsery said up there.
    My recent post Murci, Murci Me

    • Not Your Friend

      "The thing with teaching guys not to hit females is that it is rarely taught for females not to hit guys."

      Why do you refer to men as 'guys' but to women as 'females'?

    • Young Heaux

      Men and women are all taught that physical violence is wrong. I think women hitting men falls under that.

  • Deka

    All the bus driver had to do was call the police. His attack was not in self defense period.

  • BlueSteele

    I'm just going to post my facebook comment here:

    "She was out of pocket as hell for that one. Why would you a) hit this man and b) hit him while he's driving the bus (thus endangering everyone)? I have three brothers and learned quick that just b/c a guy shouldn't hit you, doesn't mean you can step to them. Sad part is that he'll probably lose his job (or at least get reprimanded) for losing it on this chick."

    That being said, I'll elaborate. In being the stronger individual in the situation he should have exercised more self control (maybe just toss her off the bus and close the door?). However, after the initial hit and getting thrown off the bus, the young lady repeatedly came back to throw more blows- which the driver kept supplying.

    This leads me to believe two things here: a) this was not her first time approaching a man in this manner and b) this was not his first time hitting a woman (my own personal speculation).

    I don't agree that all he had to do was call the police, there wasn't enough time for that, she wouldn't exit the bus and SHE HIT HIM WHILE HE WAS OPERATING A BUS WITH PASSENGERS ON BOARD.

    Dude is wrong ten times over, if I were related to or romantically involved with him I'd be completely disgusted and disappointed at his decision. (Especially considering his age).

    This girl has real problems for even approaching him, let alone to continue attacking him after he showed his comfort in treating her like a man.

    Also, "Group responsibility theory"…why did none of the passengers interject? Why did it take multiple blows being thrown in her direction before ANY of the male passengers did something to stop it? Why didn't any of the female passengers try to talk her out of her path to destruction?

    • http://singleblackmale.org/author/WisdomIsMisery WisdomIsMisery

      +1

    • WaterLove

      I agree with just about everything you wrote. I, too, grew up with three brothers. I was raised to not hit, and my brothers were raised to not hit girls. As kids, we did fight occasionally. My belief is, a woman shouldn’t hit a man, however men are often times stronger. Why not just leave or restrain the woman instead of causing more damage to her, than the woman could ever cause to a man?

  • Katherine L.

    There seems to be a bigger issue in this situation and that is violence overall. I agree, the woman shouldn't have put her hands on him, but he should've never justified his actions with the idea of: "she wanted to fight like a man, I'll treat her like one". I recall hearing him say she was stepping up to him like a man, so he was going to treat her like one. That is when things got worst, because there his intentions were no longer to defend himself, but to reinstate his 'macho man'/'i am the man' persona. As he was in front of other men in this video, I'm sure he didn't want to come out as if she "won" in this situation, because he is "the man". The actions of the by standers were even worst! They just stood there and watched and laughed. There was a guy right next to the bus driver and he did not try to physically separate them- that to me was CRAZY! Even worse, was that he continued to beat her and pull her hair. The effects of these actions will always go with her, because if a mere bus driver doesn't respect her, how can any other man? (granted, not all men are like this, but his behavior and those around him surely perpetuated that mindset). I just truly hope that men and women alike get a deeper understanding of respect, love, and efficient and effective communication.

  • cynicaloptmst81

    Point blank, she shoulda kept her hands to herself…and nuthin woulda popped off.

    Period.

    I don't feel sorry for her.AT.ALL.

    Chicks like her boil my blood…gonna act like somebody else was wrong…GOHWT…its her bad…

    • Not Your Friend

      The bus driver encouraged her behavior by arguing back with her.

  • Laney

    Can a man ever be justified in putting his hands on a woman? Of course.

    "It’s just certain things I know not to say to my man… because he’ll beat my ass.”
    I was so confused. How could you date someone with that type of potential inside of them? Not me, no sir, no way"

    ^ I'm confused as to how you're confused. Notice how this dude tried to destroy her existence likely because he felt extremely disrespected, not because of physical harm she inflicted on him. Same thing. Certain things can't be said/done because they will come across extremely disrespectful…. and get you hospitalized. That man didn't respond to physical harm… he responded to the extreme amounts of disrespect.

    How could you date a guy with that potential? That's any guy. Any guy I date, I know has the potential to inflict a lot of bodily harm to me if he so chooses to in response to me possibly disrespecting him. Isn't that how it works when guys fight other guys? Disrespect leads to violence so you don't disrespect. And if you do, understand the consequences that could come about.

    Granted, would I stay with a dude that hits me because I said something disrespectful? Not a chance. Would I stay with a dude that hits me because I hit him (I'd never do)? Nope. He may be justified in the situation and that's cool. But I'm really not checking for that type of guy. Another female's battle. But I understand that chick's statement. Regardless, I'm not trying to get beat so I'm not going to say certain things that I know are anger triggers to my s/o so that I can keep my life.

  • GoldenG

    There are two reasons I think is acceptable for putting your hands on a woman: She gotta be as big as Deebo off of Friday and she has to be beating you senseless, she gotta have a gun and your life is in danger. Anything else I would just walk away if I was dude. Because he is going to get penalized more, simply because he's a man, the law is going to ignore the fact that she was getting on your nerves had her finger in your face, muffing/hitting you constantly whatever the case maybe you're going to get locked up not her. I slapped a guy once LOL and he slapped the taste out my damn mouth to this day I never hit another dude again believe that.

  • Adonis

    1. Here is the FULL video.
    2. Here is the glamorous version
    3. Here is the Street Fighter Version

    I cannot stand with Dr. J on this one. If we were in a society with FULL gender roles & the privilege thereof, where men & women were held to their biological standards, I am with you.

    Women want to be treated as equals, we have to honor their requests, that includes being their a$$ when they get out of pocket.

    Either we gon be equals, or we gonna go back to "antiquated" gender roles.

    The girl in question has had a rough life, and I am sympathetic to that ( she was allegedly shot 4 times in a home invasion ), but you have to get some therapy & move on and not transfer that hurt to people who had nothing to do with your (poverty) situation.

    • Young Heaux

      You're f***in playing with me right? You always act like you have these reasoned arguments to every post, but your conclusions always come down to the same thing: feminism = bad, woman = bad. Thats not reasoning at all.

      • Adonis

        I have been "ridin' round & gettin' it in" these for about at least 2 years. It is easy to type when you are standing by truth, and women like yourself stay in denial.

        Feminism is good if you are ready for civilized society to burn to ashes. You see the destruction all around you, you just want to point the blame out to everything BUT cultural equality back by feminist ideology.

        Women are good as long as they are well-trained, and not given too much latitude. If you give women rights, you give them the responsibility that comes with those rights.

        But if women don't want to take responsibility for their actions, then we need to take away they right to vote, abort children, work, & arrange their marriages with capable provider men.

        You will be surprised how better men act in the long-term when most of these provisions are brought back.

        • Young Heaux

          Again, you have the reasoning capacity of a mosquito. You're truly a fundamentalist and I can't engage with that.

  • Lia

    This video reminds me of the whole McDonald's beating that went down a while back. And just like the last one, this chick got exactly what she asked for. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. There is not a man on the planet that I'd put hands on because I don't want them thinking that I want that coming back at me. And that's exactly what a woman does when she takes the first swing. If that chick would have kept her hands to herself, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

    Now, I don't think that a man should hit a woman but I can certainly understand how it might happen if she swings first.

  • Sith King Jordan

    "Do you think he was justified in his actions? "

    in short, "I don't know".

    the long answer is, "i really don't know".

    i know that the man rules state that males aren't supposed to hit females in any circumstances whatsoever, and in the lightning-strike chance that a female happens to beat down/kill/maim a male…

    well he shoulda ran.

    i don't know how i would have acted, if i was in the situation. i'd like to say that i would have gotten the chick off the bus by any means, hopefully peaceful. but when that anger rushes up…

    for even the most logical humans, when filled with enough rage, their actions become irrationally emotional, and illogical.

    i find it troubling that we stress upon our sons, not to strike women or girls, and (some/few/many?) girls knowing this, and…well…running with it.

    i know that i will stress upon my son, if i'm blessed to have one, that he is to respect all humans, and not strike any male or female, because they are human just like him…

    unless they threaten the safety of himself, or those he cares about.

  • BreBre

    I always find it interesting that we expect more out of man then a woman in these situations. When we do that, we make this underline assumption that women cant control their emotions and are just too irrational; therefore the man has to be in control and force himself to not hit a woman. I dont like being seen as irrational, and I'm pretty sure not all men ALWAYS have the ability to be in control ALL the time.

    It's about respect. I dont condone violence of any kind. I agree with the few comments that touch on "ticking time bombs". You NEVER know what someone is going through, nor do you know their temperments or what sets them off. Anyone is capable of anything giving the right circumstances.
    Im not saying if you drop a soda on the floor, your man should wail on you. However, if you go out of your way to hurt and disrespect him to the point where he becomes upset enough to hit you, you are not innocent.

    • Adonis

      I always find it interesting that we expect more out of man then a woman in these situations.

      Two thoughts. When women subconsciously think like that , it opens the door for sexist pigs like me to see most women as lesser and/or inferior. And remove some of the women's privileges that women have.

      And on a black woman's note, from an image perspective, y'all need to distance yourselves from the image of these hoodrats. Because they hurt your dating stock as a group. BW have not done a great job of differentiating yourselves the way BM have.

      • BlueSteele

        "BW have not done a great job of differentiating yourselves the way BM have."

        Ahahahaha, you really think black men have done a great job at that huh? #morningFunny

        If you just don't like women it's cool.

        • Adonis

          Ahahahaha, you really think black men have done a great job at that huh? #morningFunny

          Absolutely, you can definitely tell the difference between a Barack Obama vs. Waka Flocka type black male. They do not stand together on common issues.

          But Michelle Obama & Lil Kim types can BOTH have hidden feministic, hoodrattish tendencies that can sack a relationship. And both will defend women strangers even if they are DEAD wrong.

          That is the difference.

        • Adonis

          Nice avi tho.

  • Danielle

    It was highly justifiable. Highly. Keep your damn hands to yourself. Period. And then to have the nerve to spit on him…that shit is just disgusting! He should have swollen up her damn lips so the next time she ever thinks to do some dumb shit like that again she thinks twice.

  • LadyRazorback

    I think he should have used more restraint in this situation. 1.) He was on his job and that's not the way to handle an unruly person. 2.) He's too old for this. 3.) As a man (a BM at that), did it not occur to him that he can't afford to put himself in this kind of situation. The court system most times favors the woman during physical altercations.

    Yes, she was wrong however he went way too far. I don't feel his actions were justifiable.

    • Young Heaux

      I agree 100% with your post. He will have to face the consequences.

  • Young Heaux

    Haven't watched the video; don't plan to. I don't condone physical violence at all, regardless of gender, unless it's self defense really. Personally, I have no respect for men who would hit (or boast about their willingness to hit) a woman.

  • Young Heaux

    By the way, that's really great that you're sponsoring Ray of Hope! respect
    My recent post Dentist pulls out all of her ex-boyfriend's teeth

  • Sith King Jordan

    so the bus driver's statement to the police, has been made available…
    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/file/cleveland-bus-p

    spitting on the driver, and grabbing on his throat…while he was driving?

    wow.

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  • Uncle Hugh, BP

    SHO-RYU-KEN!

    I tried, but I can't muster up even a smidgen of sympathy for this lady. When you hit someone, you don't get to tell them how to retaliate. He is justified because he is entitled to defend himself.

    There's a lot of comments about hitting a woman. I didn't see a woman in that video. I personally wouldn't hit a woman, but given that I'm much stronger than 95% of the male population, I don't hit men either.

    There's comments about he should have walked away. Where to? He should have hopped off the bus and walked somewhere? He should have stayed there and got pummeled until the police eventually showed up? How does he even make the call if the woman is hitting him?

    It's hilarious that some people are talking about what the bus driver should have done, when this female spits on him and punches him while he's driving a 14-ton vehicle on a busy city street.

    • Lagoschicka

      +1

  • Court

    No I don’t think there’s any justification IF the woman is simply coming out of her mouth. You have to be a MAN and the bigger person and walk away. If it’s your woman doing it, then that’s on you, because you should have checked that from the beginning and let her know you will not tolerate any disrespect. I’ve been on the cusp a few times from striking a female, but I decided to just walk away and pray on it–Yes nothing wrong with that. Now if a woman is putting her hands on you blatantly, you have to defend yourself, even if you’re just ‘hemming’ her up. Do I believe you should go Kimbo Slice on her, absolutely not, especially if you have plenty of size on her. I do feel you have to defend yourself regardless. In the case of the bus driver, maybe uppercutting her was a bit harsh but he had to de-escalate and escalating situation. I do find it amazing that people find it funny (yes check out facebook and youtube) but when Chris Brown allegedly did it he was villified in society. No one was in the car to REALLY know what was going on, maybe she struck him first and got him a few times. All in all, no man has a right to put his hands on a woman, but on the flip side a woman should also keep her hands to herself.

  • http://lesbianbrooklynite.wordpress.com/ Lesbian Brooklynite

    “It’s just certain things I know not to say to my man, (but she said the dude I’m talking to, because you know how that goes), because he’ll beat my ass.”

    If that is okay in anyone's book, is out of her mind and has a lack of respect for their self.

  • Salim

    To hell with all that "don't hit a woman" stuff. If those people were so concerned about her being a woman, they would have told her ass to sit down and stop being an nut. But no one said a word. Fuckin' idiots.