The Journey to Becoming a Good Man and the Women We Encounter Along the Way

  • Share on Tumblr

I’m not even going to attempt to define what makes a man a “good man.” Since the majority of our readers are women, please feel free to provide your definition in the comments below. I’d actually be very interested in seeing what qualities overlap and which differ as defined by you. Personally, I’ve chosen instead to focus on a question I found myself asking the other day:

Are good men – loosely defined as the husband-material type – born or created?

However you define it, I think we can all agree that all (heterosexual) women want their boyfriend / husband to be a “good man.” This led me to wonder about three distinct points. Editor’s Note: I’ve paraphrased some feedback I received on my Twitter account today. Thanks to all those who interacted and participated in the discussion.

1. Are Good Men Born?

Socially, a man doesn’t come from the womb knowing what it means to provide tangibles, emotionally, and spiritually for a family – @iVyDeMilo

Just as I imagine some people are born with traits that make them natural athletes, some men are born with natural traits that predispose them to being a good man. Furthermore, as some women noted, these men may be afforded the advantage of having positive male role models in their lives in the form of their fathers or they may learn to respect and appreciate women through their relationship with their mothers, a topic we recently covered here. However, this does not include all men. In other words, not every good man started off that way.

2. Are Good Men Created?

“Good men” and “good husbands” aren’t exempt from making mistakes. Nor should their mistakes be their primary means of learning. – @iVyDeMilo

I have to ask the “good men” in the audience to help me out with this question: Do you concern yourself with how you treated the women in your past or only the woman in your present?

As I mature as a man, there are times when I reflect back on my past interactions with women and I do wish I handled various situations differently. That is the nature of hindsight. On the other hand, sometimes the only reason I learned how to become a better man is by falling short of the man I needed to be in the life of a woman in my past. Unfortunately, it is only through our interaction that I learned to be a better man for the next woman I encountered. I often say, “I learned more from the women who left me when I did wrong than from the women who stayed and enabled my actions.” This is why I usually encourage women to leave men who are falling short of their expectations of the man they need in their life. This is not only because I think women (and people in general) shouldn’t settle for anything less than the best, but also because as a man I know a man has to want to change for himself long before he can change for a woman.

3. What Happens to the Women Men Encounter on Their Way to Becoming a “Good Man”?

He’s a good man because he was raised right. A good person is good to everyone. Character doesn’t change. – @honeybfly1980

This statement is interesting, but I’m not sure I agree. Is it important to you that a man is a good man to all women? Is someone who was once a bad man (cheater, for example), always a bad man? As a woman, do you care how your man treated other women or are you only interested in the way he treats you within the confines of your relationship? I can assure you that there are married men who treat their wife like a Queen who have women in his past who will always view him as a “bad man” irrespective of the changes he has made in his life.

A number of women noted that women are socially conditioned to want to be in a relationship. This pressure, good or bad, isn’t imposed on men or at least not in young men. Therefore, most women are readying themselves to be relationship-material on a faster timeline than most men. This isn’t to say a man won’t be ready to commit one day; it will just take the average man longer to get there than the average woman. In the meantime, does not developing those same relationship traits as quickly in himself make him a bad man? Is it really as simple as turning on a light switch for a man to decide he is going to make the change from good to bad, from womanizer to commitment? If that is the case, is it less about a man changing for himself and more about a man meeting a woman that inspires him to change? Depending on the age at which they meet, perhaps these events are one in the same.

Regardless, if a good man is not born, it seems inherent that one or more women may “suffer” as a part of his learning experience. This isn’t always through worst case scenarios – cheating, lying, and general deceit. It can be as simple as the termination of a serious relationship or heartbreak. Frankly, accepting that the person you love doesn’t love you the same way, while perhaps less shocking, is no less painful in its own right.

I think women are fine with having a good man in their life – and they deserve one – but I’m not sure they want to know how he got there. More importantly, I don’t think most women want to be the woman that meets a man along the road to becoming a good man. Instead, they want to be the woman who meets him after reaches his destination. I just wonder how that can be possible. As the saying goes, even the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

I ask a lot of questions today, because I’m not sure of the answers. Honestly, I’m not sure how a single man matures into someone who will make a good husband without making mistakes along the way nor am I positive how his actions affect the women he encounters along the way.  I do find it hard to believe that every good man grew into that role without hurting, if not outright breaking, a few hearts along the way. If true, it seems one or more women had to suffer so that one-day one woman could prosper. The lessons he learned from other women’s pain created the knowledge and maturity necessary to provide the joy he brings her and I guess that’s fine, as long as you are the woman that meets him at the right part of his journey…

So readers, are good men born or created?

Fellas, if you’re in a committed relationship, what did it take for you to learn how to be a “good man”? In your opinion, what defines a “good man”? Did you have to learn how to become one from your relationships with women or independent from women? What influence did women have or not have on your maturity and growth as a man? 

Ladies, how do women learn to become a “good woman” and how would you define it? Did you learn how to become one from your relationships with men or independent from men? In your opinion, what defines a good man? If you agree that good men are created instead of born, then how does it feel to be a woman that is part of his journey but not necessarily the final destination?

  • Share on Tumblr

From Our Partners

  • http://thewhittiest.wordpress.com TheWhittiest

    I have grown into being a good woman. I have always identified with being a "good woman," but based on my standards I have for myself today, I truly was just okay and growing back in the day. I define being a good woman in having firm integrity and character, being loving and giving, knowing what I want, and being willing to give my best in spite of myself and others. It's the honor she carries, the thrust in her back, and the power of her prayer that makes a good woman worthy. It's the fact that there aren't enough words to describe who I am and who I will become that I believe that has truly deemed me a "good woman."

    I believe a good man is born and developed into being great. Perfection does not equal great, and great surely does not mean without flaw. It surely is a combination of a man/woman's core and the decisions he/she has made after several mistakes that determines his/her worth. In all honestly, I understand what life can do to a person's spirit-but it's that "je ne sais quoi" that a person has that makes him/her get up again that makes a person a winner in my eyes… Like Jill Scott said, put your best foot forward to make your soul a winner, and you're all the better in my eyes. You know when you meet a good man– they have a tendency of making everyone around them better.
    My recent post Choices. Confessions of a Growing Soul

  • Magg

    I don't think good men are born… Having a role model can help, but men have to experience certain things before becoming "good men".

    One of my ex was an a** with me… He's now engaged, and he's such a gentleman with his soon to be wife… He will never treated her like he treated me, and that means he understood that wasn't the way to go for long-term!!!
    How does it feel not to be the final destination? It feels like a LOT OF TIME WASTED!!! But at the same time I'm happy he changed. No hard feelings toward him. [I know some women feel "Ah I made him good for the next girl GRRRRR!" Well... Yes... Too bad it was you, but you need to let it go!!!!] It helped me knowing what I really DON'T want in a relationship… And though he was often wrong, he can't take all the blame for the failure of this relationship, I had to work on myself, I surely wasn't the good woman I am now (so cocky ahahahahah!) So it was a learning situation for both of us.

    One of my homey said to me one time "It could have worked with all my exes, because they were ready, I just wasn't"… This good men conversation makes me think about a post on this site (can't remember who wrote it) about TIMING… Men become good when they are ready to commit.

    What's good for me could be super bad for another woman, since we don't have the same tastes, the same criteria, the same needs… The definition of good man/woman really is subjective.

  • Mr_SD

    This is a good topic and a hard one to tackle. I've heard all my life from women that I'm a "good " man. And i hate it because its very vague AND it based on goals I've set for myself. I decided to not be a statistic and all of a sudden I'm a good man?? Yes I grew up in a 2 parent household and my dad was a great example of what it is to be a man. However none of the decisions I've made we solely based on decisions my dad made. In fact is was based on the opposite of his decisions..lol The idea that good men are born good is pretty interesting. I believe i was born with a great work ethic, and based on logic it just makes good sense to establish a flourishing career. I'm suppose to treat women with respect, that's goes without saying. I love love and everything that it encompasses. But that's my normal. I wasn't part of some Frankenstein project to mold me into the man I am today. The only argument for any involved molding would be the role God plays in my life. And ideologically that something that's taught.

    • AfterMath

      Yeah, I've always hated the "good man" talk because I never knew what that meant….and especially when comparing who these same women (who were calling me a good man) were dating, it would kinda beg the question, well are you saying I should be more thuggish or something? I mean, honestly, I'd say that most of my good qualities come from Hip Hop. But try saying that in an open conversation today and people will think I'm selling drugs for a living as if that's all that hip hop encourages.

      As far as the "born or nurtured" question, I'd argue that every individual has the little angel and devil that come to them and say "well if you did this you could get ….", and its up to them to make that decision. If they make it because that's all they know, then cool. If they make it because they're afraid of the consequences, then cool. But I don't think we can ignore the personal aspects involved in this. I mean that's the whole point of free will.
      My recent post Shade The Cells Puzzle

  • Adonis

    1. Iight. Good, decent, average, nice, kind all mean the same thing when defining a long-term marriagable man. So, for this post, let good be the catchall phrase for this discussion.

    2. The big issue in all this talk about a good man is GOOD =/= ATTRACTIVE. And so when I learned their was a distinct difference between the two. I threw away my "good & decent man" card. Good men are not first round draft picks in this broken society, so, when women speak on it, I have long since stop listening

    A large portion of women see "good", willing & able "responsible" men as men who are only NOTICED when they are not around, and called upon when to clean up a mess (to care for OOW children, to pay bills, or to be an emotional tampon when she is dealing with a man who wants her only for sex & "wifely" services. So, good men are called upon to take care of women who are not at their best (old, fat, ugly & with foreign OOW child) more often than not.

    If I am talking out of school here, please educate me. You have the floor.

    • Adonis

      My belief that nature & nurture on a spectrum influence whether a man is good or not. But I consider nurture more heavily because, that is where parents have HAD control over. Your lifestyle changes your DNA over time, and however you live your life, habits, etc. gets passed on to your children, before nurturing takes place.

      ———————————————————————————————————–

      On a personal note. Being a "good" man is something I am just comfortable with. If a weaker class of human beings needs help in my proximity, I'll over support most of the time. But I was immature to believe that being a good man is attractive to a wide range of women. It just not true. Also, I am SELECTIVELY good. Being good in 2012 can get you killed or even falsely imprisoned , so you have to do a case by case basis as you live your life.

      Good topic

      • http://glippost.wordpress.com Darrk Gable

        Before your selectivity, that was the Cap’n Save ‘Em mentality. It has got many men caught up.

  • ooh ok…

    I think I learned from examples…
    I always looked b4 I leaped. Boring life, but I don't regret it. Some people are just like that.
    I looked at family members w/ kids out of wedlock and said, "Not me." *shrugs*
    After being single and not ever being in a relationship past 3 months I finally found "him". We agreed to take one step at a time and here we are (10 months later). Im thankful and I did learn how to be better because of our relationship/ him. I know 10 months isn't THAT long, but its a start.

    We just talked about what makes a good man/woman. I think its more so maturity and just life experiences, also, grounding in God and Christianity (some type of higher being). I say that because you have to be "open" and not closed to finding a relationship. Its just a good starting point.

    Honestly, Im happy to be apart of his journey, and (hopefully) be his final destination :)

    • ooh ok…

      Also totally agree w/ both the Whittiest & Magg.
      I went from a relationship standpoint instead of my own.
      sigh* My bad!
      Also happy that Magg learned from her past relationship.

  • AfterMath

    Really nice post today.

    I'd say that a "good man" has to be looked at outside of just the context of relationships, particularly when looking at that last comment. I mean, I'd probably agree that I look at how they treat everybody and their general attitude towards life. We all have a past ( I know I do) and that's a part of what makes me who I am today. I've been down some roads that I've vowed to never go back down. That I consider myself a good man today doesn't ignore the stuff in my past that may disagree with this, but in general it does affect my general treatment of people. If I'm nice to you, its not because I want something back from you (sex, favors, money, etc.), if I'm nice to you its just because that's my personality and I'm cool with being a nice guy. But some people have the opposite desire. There's a question of "what can you do for me" and if the answer is insufficient, then they'll gladly just keep it moving.
    My recent post Shade The Cells Puzzle

  • http://biggerthomas.wordpress.com/ madscientist7

    So readers, are good men born or created?

    i think its a mixture of both. a man has to born with a certain personality that allows him to be a "good man" but at the same time someone has to raise him in such a way that his personality is cultivated into transforming him from a good "boy" to a good "man".

    Fellas, if you’re in a committed relationship, what did it take for you to learn how to be a “good man”?

    i think it took a lot of learning from my mistakes. i know how i was raised but i didn't always adhere to those values that were instilled in me. i also learned that a lot of times instant gratification (not just sexually either) isn't always the best thing.

    In your opinion, what defines a “good man”?

    a good man is a man who knows the meaning of caring for others. it isn't defined by bravado. he knows that being a man is about taking care of your responsibilities and learning from your mistakes. he knows that being vulnerable and showing emotion isn't weak.

    Did you have to learn how to become one from your relationships with women or independent from women?

    i would say that it is definitely independent of women. the last woman who taught me how to be a good man was my mother. women can't teach men how to be men period. whether good or bad. at least not in a relationship standpoint. that man is already who he is when she met him.

    What influence did women have or not have on your maturity and growth as a man?

    i will say that women in my past have allowed me to use the lessons and values that were instilled in me as practice for how i react to certain situations.
    My recent post Where is this going?

  • http://www.iamrichjones.com Slim Jackson

    Great start to the week.

    I definitely learned from past failures. Also learned from stories and situations of those around me. When I think of what it means to be a good dude, it's really being honest, dependable, responsible, thoughtful, helpful, uplifting. These are all basics of good people in general. These things shouldn't change in the context of a relationship. If they are upheld and the person knows how to effectively communicate, things should be straight for the most part.

    I've had a similar discussion to the one here. The difference is that we were focusing on charisma and transformational leadership. Like are some people really born with the "It" factor, or is it something that's cultivated based on their experience growing up? Would be curious to hear people's thoughts on that as well.
    My recent post How I Used LinkedIn As My Career Consultant

    • oh ok…

      Like are some people really born with the "It" factor, or is it something that's cultivated based on their experience growing up?

      I think we're all born w/ the "It" factor. Some people just recognize it earlier than others. Some have negative situations that hinder the growth. And others (like myself) are just scared to see it through…or lazy (._. )? meh.

  • BlueSteele

    -So readers, are good men born or created?
    I have no clue, I'm going to say created though.

    -In your opinion, what defines a “good man”?

    It's difficult for me to answer this question, mainly because every man I've seriously been involved with (and thus every man who's hurt/disappointed/confused the hell out of me) was a "good" man, I can't accept anything less. That said, I think it's unfair to expect "good" men to be without fault. I will say that a good man steps up to responsibilities, reflects on the decisions of his past, learns from his mistakes and honestly feels some remorse (if only for a second) for the hurt he's caused on his way to becoming a true gem.

    -How do women learn to become a “good woman” and how would you define it?

    I think I'm learning to be a "good" woman through 1) female role models (witnessing their good and bad qualities and the impact they have on their lives; 2) understanding how losing a male role model early in the game impacts my view on the world- but not letting it be an excuse to fall short of my potential and 3) my relationships and friendships

    -Did you learn how to become one from your relationships with men or independent from men?

    Oddly enough, experiences with men have helped me develop and at the same time made me restrain some of those "good" woman qualities (proceeding with caution maybe?) in an effort to limit personal vulnerability. I know that's counter-productive but hey charge it to the game, sorry fellas.

    -If you agree that good men are created instead of born, then how does it feel to be a woman that is part of his journey but not necessarily the final destination?

    It. Sucks.

  • Bree

    Good people aren’t born. Thats ridiculous. If that were the case this would be a “perfect world full of perfect people.”
    A lot goes into whether your a good man or woman. Your upbringing, your environment, your personality traits, your sign (j/k lol), your influences and how positive or negative they were/are, whatever innate qualities God blessed you with, and whether your a selfish person or not. I’m a good woman because I was raised by a family of good women to be a good person. My family taught me to “do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” I was raised to be unselfish and not always give to receive, but give from the heart. I’ve had some wonderful positive influences in my life. Not just from family but friends, teachers, neighbors, and professors. I’ve learned something from practically everyone God has crossed my path with and placed in my life. I learned how to treat men in relationships well from the examples I saw within my family. Fortunately I was raised seeing good, loving, relationships where there was good communication. My family is big on problem solving and communicating and working things out. Thats one of my best skills I learned from my family.
    As for being a part of a mans learning process I can’t be mad at it because it is what it is. It’s life. There is joy and pain. You can’t go through life with no heartache and pain. It’s not realistically possible. As someone told me once, the day you have no problems, issues, drama or pain is the day you die.
    When women get involved with a man we don’t even think about what he’s been through or hasn’t been through and how he will treat us. We get with him if we find him attractive and sexy and if he starts out treating us well.

  • bree

    In the beginning all we can go by is the vibe we get from the person and whatever they tell us and if we know anyone they know we can possibly use them as a reference, other than that it's a chance we take, and there are no guarantees.

  • cynicaloptmst81

    Ladies, how do women learn to become a “good woman” and how would you define it? – Experience…from birth forward.

    Did you learn how to become one from your relationships with men or independent from men? – Both played a part.

    In your opinion, what defines a good man? – To me, a good person is a responsible, law-abiding citizen who honors his/her word…a person that respects peoples feelings and acts accordingly.

    If you agree that good men are created instead of born, then how does it feel to be a woman that is part of his journey but not necessarily the final destination? – I think a person has to choose to be good…they create themselves. It sucks but its a part of the process. I know I was a part of someone elses process. We all have been at some point.

    • Bree

      "We all have been at some point." The truist of truisms right here. Unless your married to the same person since highschool then yeah we all definitely have. And even when your married to the same person for more than a decade u grow up together with that person and experience "growing pains" with them.
      Hopefully we all become better people as we get older, grow up and mature. Thats the way the natural order of things is supposed to be. Eventually everyone does become better, some people just take a really really really long time.

  • http://katwebbmusic.com KitKatCuty84

    I don’t think anyone is BORN good. I think we’re born neutral and our upbringing determines which way we’re going to go. Some men who have deadbeat dads do the same thing, but some men who have deadbeat dads do the opposite, and because the #1 dad in their county. You never know. But yes, you have to be CREATED or RAISED that way. It’s not inherent. The same is true for women.

    I DO get a little weary of a man who has a very troubling past with women. I wonder if he’ll repeat his mistakes on me. I wonder if his “good” behavior with me is really genuine, if he was so problematic with other women. Women (well, people) like to think that we’ll bring out the best in the person we’re meant to be with. Some people wait around with the WRONG people, hoping we’ll get a chance to CHANGE/SAVE them for this very reason. But even if it’s legit and I get with a man and he’s a changed man with me, while I’m flattered, I still DO have to ask myself those questions.

    And the answer to those questions is in the hands of the woman/man. If she can handle his past, then great. I hope he’s really a changed man, and will treat her the way she wants to be treated for the rest of their life together. If she can’t get over it, he might still be a good man NOW, but his “bad” man past caught up with him. I know when I was “done wrong” by “bad” men in the past, I hoped their past would catch up with them. But truthfully, most people know the past is the past, can’t be changed, and if the change in character is legit, then they’ll keep their awesome man, past be darned, and call it a day.

    • KitKatCuty84

      BECOME* the #1 dads…

  • Beef Bacon

    So readers, are good men born or created? – Both.

    Ladies, how do women learn to become a “good woman” and how would you define it? I learned by observation, being aware of myself and past mistakes. A good woman is defined by her ability to love others and herself. A good woman can handle what live throws without going to the dark side or getting depressed. A good woman does what she can to assist others. A good woman has standards.

    Did you learn how to become one from your relationships with men or independent from men? Both.

    In your opinion, what defines a good man? A brother that GENUINELY loves God , himself and others. That will set the foundation for all else.

    If you agree that good men are created instead of born, then how does it feel to be a woman that is part of his journey but not necessarily the final destination? I am okay with being that because I understand that through this journey we will both learn more about ourselves. I care more about the journey than the destination because the journey is the fun part. One is never sure when, how and why any relationship will end. I am happy with enjoying just being in a person’s life knowing ultimately I have no control over how things will turn out.

  • Lia

    Ladies, how do women learn to become a “good woman” and how would you define it?
    A good woman is one who is loving, loyal, and acts with integrity. Not only towards others but especially towards herself. I think that good women are born, but life can take you places that will test a woman's knowledge of her own goodness. In the end, if she doesn't know it, she won't show it.

    Did you learn how to become one from your relationships with men or independent from men?
    I think I was always good to be honest. I've heard descriptions of my early childhood and how I behaved towards others, doesn't sound like too much has really changed. I will say that I have at times questioned myself, and that came from dealing with family, friends, and romantic relationships. All of my relationships have taught me something about myself and the world in general.

    In your opinion, what defines a good man?
    I would say that the things that make a good woman and man are the same, they're just executed differently in some cases.

    If you agree that good men are created instead of born, then how does it feel to be a woman that is part of his journey but not necessarily the final destination?
    We are all part of each other's journeys, but it is sometimes hard to see that when your emotions are raw. Relationships should change both people for the better, and it would be foolish of me to see that I have grown from the experience as well. I have been involved with men who I know have more growing to do. But I am not God's gift to men in a sense that I can take all of the credit for making them into better human beings. For all I know, he may have been even worse off before than when I had him. If that was the case, then there might be a chick out there who feels like she put in even more work and didn't get the reward. I have exes who know that I have matured into adulthood too, and I would hate for them to think that they could take all the credit for who I am.

  • Lia

    *not to see

  • jdoubleu

    Heavy post, a lot of interesting questions. 1 statement kinda summed up the general question pertaining to being a good man in relationships…"I do find it hard to believe that every good man grew into that role without hurting, if not outright breaking, a few hearts along the way. If true, it seems one or more women had to suffer so that one-day one woman could prosper."

    You can only grow into the man you should be by going through certain situations where you look back and are able to differentiate between right and wrong, immature and mature. Like you said, hindsight is imperative to progress.

    Fellas, if you’re in a committed relationship, what did it take for you to learn how to be a “good man”? I had my dad to initially set the standard for what I believed a good man is. However in order to be a good man for the woman I'm with, it requires me to know what expectations matters to her most. Not every woman has the same values/expectations that my mom had for my pops so that's been a hard mold to break from as an adult. Did you have to learn how to become one from your relationships with women or independent from women? What influence did women have or not have on your maturity and growth as a man? Because I married young and divorced before 30, a woman was a huge part of my maturity and growth into the man I am now. I think experiencing that type of emotional chaos forced me to see the juxtaposition between the man I thought I was and where I was falling short. So referring back to the quote, as much as it sucks, there'll always be 1 woman who will have to endure some pain in order for a man to reach his max potential.
    My recent post 5 Things To Remember When You Start Over

  • http://glippost.wordpress.com Darrk Gable

    1. I’m just speaking from personal experiences here. I was the serial monogamy guy before getting married. I found myself being an a-hole at times, but I prided myself on never being like “them other dudes”. It was as I got older that I realized my actions were on a smaller scale, but still bad guy-ish. I learned to be a good man, so nah, men learn to be good, not born.

    2. Much like anything in life, some men may be predisposed to being good, but it takes experiences and practice to get it right. It also has to be understood that a bad guy for one woman, can be the greatest mam in the world for another woman. Experiences will dictate. There’s a certain baseline for all men, but to a woman, certain traits are cool, certain traits are not.

    3. I think all men think about the past women. Sometimes it’s wistfully, sometimes relief, sometimes to analyze. The interactions with past women is a mirror into our past to show our progress, or lack thereof.

  • beeserendipity

    no one is born good same as no one is born bad. people become good or bad as the case may be.
    Ask a parent and he’d tell you how much effort goes into training a child, giving him a moral compass; because children are not naturally good inclined. To be good, one has to be taught to be good, learn to be good and choose to be good.
    in defining a good man (or woman), i’d say he is a good man who has a trained conscience, and who strive to conform or attain to a higher moral standard, often brought about by a belief in God and concerted effort to please him.

  • Anon

    What about women? If a woman is a whore until she is 30, has kids with some losers and expects you to pay for them cuz daddy wont, and is a used up hag with tons of emotional baggage, do you think thats worth the risk? What if she IS good now. She is still old, less attractive by a LOT most likely, and has kids you have to pay for. Who wants that? If anything its more important to be a good woman since women are on a timer and men aren't. Men have more room for error, but you can still flip it around the other way and its almost as bad with men (men get liberty with looks/age/childcare).

    What if a man is older, has baggage, had kids with another woman and possibly has to spend his money on them or is dodging it (so is he even good if he isnt responsible?), and now you want to be with this guy? Even if he is good now the damage he has done to himself and others isn't magically gone. And the support he is supposed to give to that woman and kids will cost you and your children if you can even afford to have them at all.

    There are penalties for sin. God might forgive you when you are on death row, but the executioner is still gonna have your head. Thats why God gave us standards and told us how to live, because we will make stupid choices if we don't pay attention whether we know it or not. Knowing doesn't mean you won't fall into some pit because you got drunk or some other foolish behavior.

    Just make sure you aren't paying for someone elses sins unknowingly, because its just as foolish to take care of some woman who made a bunch of bad choices, as it is to make those choices yourself, because although you may not have sinned, you are gonna pay for it just the same as if you had.