Are Black Women Right to Blame Black Men for Their Personal Insecurities?

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Why does it always have to be this deep?

Last week, I dropped a post about qualities that I go out and look for in someone that I would consider a companion. I don’t think I did anything wrong, but where things got hectic was when I tried to make a corollary with Amber Rose and implied that she is the “wifey standard.” I just want to be clear, I didn’t say that she is the “wifey standard,” that was a classic case of someone else putting words in my mouth. What I did was list five simple observations that I thought were qualities I desired in a mate. Out of the five, only one pertained to her looks, race, or skin complexion; “She’s beautiful, knows it, but doesn’t let it define her.” In all things, this was about my personal quest for companionship; I never once said that every Black man on earth is looking for a woman like Amber Rose.

If things could only be that easy.

What ends up happening shortly after the article posted was the typical showing of the ass that goes on when someone writes a post about any woman who does not represent the “stereotypical Black woman” who all Black men between the ages of 12-85 should be attracted to. As if, one exists…

It immediately got me thinking. Really, where does the pain that comes out of Black women when they believe that their men are only interested in lighter, not even Black, or unrealistically pretty compared to a regular “on the block” level women come from? Seriously, is it the us, the men, who are the ones to blame for this insecurity? I don’t think so, it’s simply not fair.

Katt Williams said in his standup, “How can I [mess] up how you feel about you?” I couldn’t agree more. Many women will claim that they don’t lack self-esteem or have any insecurity, but then I’d have to ask, “Well, then why does it bother you when the girl doesn’t look like you?” It’s because deep down in places that we don’t want to go often there is some emptiness of feeling “why not me” or “why does it have to be this way?” That feeling is the sole responsibility and fault of the person who bears that feeling. You simply can’t blame someone else for you feeling inadequate, or that the cards are stacked against you.

Nobody says, “You know what, I’ve decided to stop believing in God because if God really loved me he wouldn’t create a world in which men preferred light-skinned women over dark-skinned women.” Nope, they regulate all that hate to Black men. What’s worse is they don’t even take the time to think, “Do men have this same problem?” If you did, you’d find out… we don’t. Was there a time when as a dark (or brown or whatever new term people come up with to avoid just being dark and light) skinned male I looked up and thought that light-skinned folks were getting more attention than me? Yep, and I got over that sh*t. I didn’t need anybody to send me to therapy, I didn’t cry any “why won’t mama get me gray contacts” tears, I just kept it moving.

Well, Dr. J if you had to endure it for years in every facet of your life. If the media told you that you were inadequate, if nobody ever told you that you were beautiful, if it was on TV, radio, movies, and all the girls always tended to like the light skin or the not even Black guys, you would understand. – women

OK, Sofia.

Listen, that problem is not only regulated to just Black women. They’re just the only people who like to spend so much time on it. You think that we didn’t notice that Colin Powell and Barack Obama had a shot at the White House, but Hermain Cain couldn’t even get the time of day? We noticed, and we moved on. Do you think that because I know for a fact that the media would love to put a brother in front of the camera that looks as far away from the “stereotypical Black” man as possible hold me back? Hell no, I moved on from all that.

My personal insecurities are issues that I have with myself. The only way they hold me back is if I start to wish I wasn’t the way I was. That’s the message that has to somehow get through to Black women. If you think you’re beautiful and you think you’re awesome, then it shouldn’t matter that a random man finds Amber Rose attractive. If you are confident in your own right, then when you hear anything that doesn’t seem like you, you move on. There are no dissertations to be written, there’s no tears to be shed, there’s no comparisons to some larger sociological issue at play, it’s just that simple, “Fine, that’s how he/she/they feel. Let’s move on.”

And seriously, as a Black man, we’re tired of it. We’re tired of that conversation. We got plenty of cheese for that whine, but we just aren’t interested in partaking in the discussion. It’s old, tired and everyone is so over it. There’s so much more that’s pressing in this world, in our world, than some back and forth discussion over men who seem to be attracted to women who don’t look like their mother. Or a discussion about what would happen if she was a few shades darker. At the end of the day, most Black men feel this way, “WHO CARES?!” Therefore, if you’re going to spend your time pontificating on all the issues that fall out of that conversation, don’t be surprised when there’s no men around to participate.

- Dr. J

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  • Larry

    "OK, Sofia." #dead

  • Mr_SD

    I think calling it an insecurity is a stretch. In my opinion black women feel vested in blk men and when we lean towards the Amber Roses/Rosa Acosta's of the world they feel disappointed in us. Truthfully though we like what we like and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

    • http://twitter.com/sabadaga @sabadaga

      So, you don't see the beauty in dark skin women?

      • Mr. SD

        Beautiful dark skin is a beautiful thing, but if there lacks chemistry between us then it can’t work. Same rules apply for other beautiful parts of her body. Complexion is all good, but what matter is the person, the actual person. Which goes back to Dr. J original post. He was speaking on key qualities he feels is necessary for a successful relationship.

        • Sandra

          Yep but he should have picked better examples, that’s it.

        • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan.

          i disagree, he listed some gorgeous women, that only the most biased hater can protest otherwise. Just because he didn't mention a Jill Scott or Kelly Rowland that doesn't mean they aren't desireable, well maybe not Kelly i think she tries too hard.

        • http://inanimatethoughts.blogspot.com Animate

          What you won't do is slander Kelly Rowland! Not on my watch!
          My recent post Murci, Murci Me

        • BlueSteele

          Ahaha "Not on my watch!"

        • Slim Jackson

          I don't think he had to pick any other examples than the ones he listed. There were no better options. They were HIS options. To try to accommodate the masses so everyone starts sharing candy and stuff would've been a bad look and dishonest. If we go that route, we might as well change the site name to Palatable Black Male: the source for agreeable perspective.

          My recent post slimjackson: Twitter turning #catfish into #tigershark

        • The Guy

          Jada Fire is cool and she dark skinned….all is not lost!

        • Larry

          "If we go that route, we might as well change the site name to Palatable Black Male: the source for agreeable perspective. "

          Lmaooo

        • http://singleblackmale.org/author/wisdomismisery WisdomIsMisery

          Palatable Black Male: the source for agreeable perspective.

          I'm crying. The hilarious part? Although no one would ever complain about that site, they would also never read or comment on it. If I had a nickel for every "this is the last time I'm going to read this site-esque" comment, despite the fact that the site is larger than ever, no pause? Look…

          Michael Jordan would mow my grass. Oprah Winfrey would do my laundry. Donald Trump would deliver my paper in the morning AND I WOULDN'T EVEN TIP HIM!

        • http://twitter.com/sabadaga @sabadaga

          "There were no better options. They were HIS options."

          You're right about that. But his options are low and trashy, though !

        • BlueSteele

          We can't dictate who he finds attractive though. I'd be bitter as hell if American brothas came at me sideways for being willing to buy swamp land in Florida from Idris. #justsaying

        • Slim Jackson
        • Dr. J

          Just so people know, I wrote a post about Michelle Obama and people hated. Just so y'all know.

          And I should have picked better examples? How does that make sense? You trying to act like I named the ONLY exclusive list. Had I said; Nia Long, Gabrielle Union, and Bria Myles somebody would have still been upset. I tell you who wouldn't be upset though… light skinned girls… they don't do this ish.

        • Bananeira

          "I tell you who wouldn't be upset though… light skinned girls… they don't do this ish."

          O_o…Really?

          Unh unh, bad timing on that one. Are you kiddng me? The reason they probably "wouldn't get upet" is because the stacks have been in their favor for YEARS! Looks like someone needs to go back and watch movies like "School Daze" again before they state such foolishness. SMH…

        • Dr. J

          Gamma Rays vs. Jiggaboos.

          You sound like you're mad at light skinned people. Like how have the odds been stacked in their favor? You can't be oppressed unless you allow yourself to be oppressed homie.

        • oh ok…

          Hmmm…kinda showed ur true colors Dr. J….

        • http://twitter.com/sabadaga @sabadaga

          " light skinned girls… they don't do this ish." thanks for confirming my point of view.

        • Bananeira

          Not mad at all. Definitely not oppressed.

          Tell me something though, should I have reason to be? Should I be jealous? Like someone said in a previous comment, why would I be mad at something someone prefers when I’m not checking for that person? I guess my bone picking is just with you Dr. J lol…j/k :P

          I have no beef with light skinned people, let alone women. Last time I checked, no one of fairer complexion asked their creator before being born, “Hey before you send me down, can you make me favorably lighter? It’ll make things a lot easier. Thanks.” SOCIETY just likes to take things and fug it all up for us and people buy into it. It just boils my blood when those with “preferences” buy into that crap and then DENY that it is an issue.

          Ooo ooo! Look what I found! To answer your question about how the odds have been stacked in their favor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorism
          I know some would argue Wikipedia isn’t the most legit place to get their information, that’s just all the effort I was willing to put into this comment. Even if the article was written or edited by a white person, WE. CAN’T. MAKE. THIS. SH*T. UP.

        • oh ok…

          *slow clap*

    • Smilez_920

      @Sandra

      What better example. He picked women with questionable past, that ppl were atleast familiar with and who people felt didnt deserve a ring due to their history. How many times do we hear ppl call Amber and Kim hoes. In the last two years they’ve been in the media the most due to their relationships with many famous men. I think Dr.J used these women because they receive a lot of slander. In this situation India Ire , Lauren Hill or Gaberial Union wouldn’t have been a good choice .

      • Sandra

        Honestly, the qualities that he listed in his previous article, are found in women who know how to carry themselves, who don’t make a living by showing their bodies to the whole wide world, you feel me?

    • BlueSteele

      Problem is too many women think that a man's recognition of beauty in another woman (or another type of woman in this case) somehow diminishes their own. Like there's a cap of beauty and they can't risk someone else being noticed for the sake of their own attractiveness. Don't believe me? Go to your local "upscale" function this weekend and peep how many chicks tense up when a gorgeous woman walks in and snatches guys' eyes for a brief second.

      • Mr_SD

        Preeeeech!

        • BlueSteele

          Yo I'll take that ring any time ;-) lol

        • Mr_SD

          You already know!..lol

      • http://singleblackmale.org/author/wisdomismisery WisdomIsMisery

        BlueSteele! *LEAPING HIGH FIVE*

      • Bree

        True that BlueSteele. I think many women are just naturally jealous and envious. All the time people complain about what they don't have and what their neighbor has and how they wish they looked a certain way, had more of this or that. It's even covered in the bible. Jealousy and envy of this type has been going on since the beginning of time.
        The world will be a better place when people start being Thankful for what they do have, and not always focusing on what they don't have. Because just like God giveth, he can taketh away.

        • oh ok…

          Exactly!

      • cynicaloptmst81

        There are so many comments that I missed this gem earlier!!!!!

        So true!!!!

  • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

    Man, I don't wanna get too wordy, but there's a lot to say about this topic. You make a lot of good points as far as self-esteem is concerned. People's sense of value or self worth shouldn't be ANYBODY else's responsibility. No one black man did anything to make mainstream media love non-traditionally black looking women. It is what it is. However I don't wanna trivialize this issue and act like some men don't intentionally make it a point to let a lot of black women know that "you aight, but you ain't really my preference.I just LOVE me some mixed/yellow/Latina women. They're the most beautiful women on this Earth!" It's not easy to ignore because so many black dudes do actually make it a point to constantly talk about their preferences in order to send a message BUT…

    Even though a lot of black men say these things maliciously or at the very least in order to peg certain women down a notch, women only get so much sympathy from me about this one. You wanna know why? Because women are JUST AS BAD if not worse about verbalizing their preferences (tall, chocolate, broad shoulders etc;) so why is it ok for one gender to point out preferences (that don't apply to many black folks of the opposite gender) but it's a crime against blackness or common decency when the other side does it? As long as it's not done disrespectfully or with the intent to provoke inadequacy or jealousy it's harmless imo. I personally don't have a color preference, but I think people have the right to have one. Just based on the charged nature of colorism and it's history I personally wouldn't speak on my preference if I did have one (maybe privately I would) but why is it only a crime when men do it?

    All in all everyone should strive to have a strong and unwavering sense of self worth that is INDEPENDENT of external pressure or suggestion (easier said than done though). Besides that though I think the ladies who feel this way need to cast their focus on the men who prefer them or at the very least treasure them just as much as they treasure the "non-black looking" women. Problem solved. #winwin

    • J. Crawford

      T.Q., Dr. J DID say that Men, especially Black Men, get the same flack and criticism, tho. I, as a Light-Skinned Black Man, have heard the subliminal and back-handed trife of Over Praise for the “Chocolate-Shadow Veiled African Kings” from Black Women since I was 5. I’ve also heard and seen the preferences of NFL- Body/LL Cool J toned Men, the Idris Elba/Morris Chestnut-desired guys, the Thug/Gangster/Bad Boy-kind of dudes that get them moist and horny constantly, and Life-Reality states that I’m just SOL, along with Plenty of other Men, BOTH Light And Dark-Skinned.

      Men don’t give deep concern about skin tone, we put on Poker faces and weather the storms when we are not the flavor of the day/month/year because we aren’t tall and/or muscular enough, as well as when we have Class over Swagg and Game. Hell, What Society says about Black Men in general IMO is Worse than the Vanity Insecurites- we are Uneducated, Deadbeats, Natural Criminals-Killers, Lazy,etc, and a Good Amount comes FROM Black Women, the Same Women who “Support and Love” us…. Trust me, as I have a Black Mother, Black Sister, Black Daughter and Black S/O that I GET the plight and frustrations; yet I’m with J in saying that African Women and all women in th Black Diaspora are not the ONLY People of Color who get the criticisms

    • beautifulsoul

      "cast their focus on the men who prefer them or at the very least treasure them just as much as they treasure the "non-black looking" women. Problem solved. #winwin"

      This comment is geniusness

    • Poetic Justice

      Mr. Fuego, I think your comment is a productive response that offers a way to rise above (not dismiss) light and dark sentiments that have handicapped self esteem."People's sense of value or self worth shouldn't be ANYBODY else's responsibility."

      +1

      • Poetic Justice

        From the age of 4 to the present (I'm 25), every phone conversation I have with my grandmother always ends with, don't forget to stand in front of the mirror today and say "I am beautiful, I love myself, my happiness and comfort is what is important to me." I don't need to see a deep chocolate female with my height, weight, cup size, hair type, fashion style and matching job description on TV, in a magazine, discussed on a blog, sprawled across a billboard or catching the guy I'm dating's eye in order for me to feel beautiful, proud or secure in myself. I see that role model everyday when I take the time to look in the mirror and appreciate those qualities in myself.

        Everyone might come up with their own ritual, but let's not make the mistake of just stating problems, let's problem solve. Rather than just drop a bomb of, "Smh they're all light-skin" or "What if Amber Rose was dark" which revs up insecurities someone might not even have thought of on their own, let's offer our brothers and sisters some edifying commentary that encourages self-love and appreciation.

    • heyheynow

      the only thing I have to say is this I'll take twitter for example I've seen maybe four women total say that's why I'm done with black men and getting me a white man…now a black guy I've seen about a hundred saying they prefer white women that's the kind of shid that hurts black women…and I'm light skin oh and I like tall men cause I'm tall if I was short I'd get a short guy and be happy that is all

  • China

    Yes, some maybe tired of it. Just moving on and ignoring the issue won't solve the problem. Yes it is a problem even though it seems that you are trivializing the issue.

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan.

      i wouldnt say its a deep issue, sistas are just frustrated but its really a get in line issue because men will always fantasize what they can't have. Big vs small, light vs dark, natural vs weave, men are always going to desire what you aren't…isnt the point of a fantasy

    • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

      "even though it seems that you are trivializing the issue."

      Hmmm, I guess I see how it might seem that way, but trust me when I say that's not my intention. My whole point was that people having preferences will always hurt other people's feelings/ego, and when the preferences run that deep and are that prevalent black women are not overreacting by taking notice and feeling some type of way (hell it annoys me too)…BUT, I think in the process of grieving and airing these grievances you give men who practice said colorism with little remorse a LOT of power and you feed their egos in a VERY gratifying way. (the sh*t's chess not checkers lol) Also, in the process you virtually IGNORE the black men who LOVE brown and darker toned women. You'd be better off ignoring the vocal cohort that professes their love for redbones every 5 minutes. This would be the ideal response because they'd look like idiots if they were constantly talking to themselves about it unprovoked. You validate them by constantly having these convos and stating what's obvious to the rest of us (a wise man said don't argue with fools). Half of us feel insulted that you still give these guys any attention at all. They provoke yall on purpose half the time, yet it seems like a lot of you (certainly not all) can't help but feed into the counter-productive and emotionally provocative debates they so innocently (read sarcasm) start. All we're saying is don't fall for it. Treat the brothas who don't subscribe to that mess like kings who's opinion matters most….The others can get right or get left. First you have to open your eyes though, cause you'd be surprised at just how many black men don't discriminate based on color ( who don't even vale skin complexion as a positive or negative attribute at all). All I'm saying is be careful what and ESPECIALLY who you're focusing on. That's all, no trivializing here
      My recent post How much pride is too much

      • sensesocommon

        *applauds*

      • ShuShuMama

        *standing ovation*

      • China

        I can appreciate the fact that you are helping to educate the women out here that don't believe that there are brothers (in numbers) that still "LOVE brown and darker toned women".

        To all those who justify their lust for light skinned/yellow bones only on the fact that it is a “preference”, I say BS.
        My question is…. How do people form preferences? I say that these men who fall in this category are brainwashed. It's not really your "preference".
        I agree that they are fools. We are only as strong as our weakest link. That’s why we have to educated them. It’s a hard job.

        It’s not just in African American culture where this problem exist. Around the world people of darker hue within different cultures get the short end of the stick. Asian, Hispanics etc.

  • Southerngyrl*

    Disclaimer: I am generally an observer. I rarely post here.

    I predict this post will go over just as well as the last one. I usually like the devil’s advocate views of these posts, but this one just seems like sour grapes. A lot of women did not get the gist of your post and the whole thing kind of devolved after a while. Yeah, it got pretty ugly, but not sure it really needed a follow up.

    This post is almost similar to a lot of arguments that say Black people have been out of slavery for hundreds of years and they should just “get over it”. The problem is it ignores the historical and societal implications of that institution. This discussion is not something easy to talk about and it definitely cannot be simplified by saying that as Black men, you do not care, or can it?

    Honestly, one of the biggest detractors in the last post was a Black man, so it isn’t something that only women can see and I hesitate to claim that most Black men feel the same way. The issue of colorism is probably too deep to fully address in this type of format. People are coming at it from a lot of emotional angles, and I mean both sides. It is an emotional issue, and definitely not one that only affects women. Even in this day and age I still hear Black people (men and women who are usually not lighter skinned themselves) say someone is too dark to be pretty. Seriously…these people are still around? But I digress, this post should have some interesting comments as well. Good luck.

    • http://sensesocommon.wordpress.com Candi

      Well said ;)

    • Dr. J

      I don't think it's kin to the slavery conversation. I also think that "historical and societal implications" is a lazy excuse that Black folks love to present. Like seriously?! Everything can be brought back to that when you refuse to just move on. Moving on is a progress that starts when you do it. Think about it this way, what if one day people could say this…

      him: What happened to when black people cared about light skin and dark skin?
      her: They got over it and that was like 100 years ago.
      him: Wow.
      her: Yeah… at this point, they don't even realize those complexion issues.
      him: But they should.
      her: Well at this point there are so many historical and societal implications of not caring about it that i'm sure they never will.

      • Southerngyrl*

        Okay. If you do not think that slavery had historical and societal implications then you are apparently not as enlightened as I once thought. I will give you that some Black people use it as an excuse, but to dismiss it in its entirety? Wow. There are so many books written on this subject it isn't even funny. Please do not let your defensiveness cloud your judgment.

        Okay, so lets take this to a broader level. Do you feel the same way about Indians and the caste system that still plagues many areas of that country? Have you ever heard of an instance when an Indian person call another Indian person an "Untouchable"? This has happened, right HERE in the US. Seriously man. I was not on your bash list, but that was some uneducated foolishness right there.

  • Sith King Jordan

    " It’s because deep down in places that we don’t want to go often there is some emptiness of feeling “why not me” or “why does it have to be this way?” "

    I believe Jill Scott talked about this, but in a different scenario…she called it the 'wince'.

    i think males and females do wish that the people that they would prefer to be with…would prefer them back. However, that's not how the world works…i could have a type i'm attracted to, it's irrelevant if they aren't attracted to me…and if they aren't, i shouldn't be throwing shade because i'm not their type..i should just move on…

    its a more logical way to look at it…but…love ain't logical, for some, i guess.

    however, we could just blame black males again, and tell them what kind of women they should be attracted to…wonder how that would work out.

  • Smilez_920

    Welp!!! Um I agree to a certain extent but its a little deeper for women than men. Beauty has always been one of those things the lay heavier on women than men. As women we are constantly scrutinized about how we look or better yet how we don’t look. So of course when we see men drooling over a certain type of women for example ” insert booty model name here” some may take your admiration to heart. Yes women also state their physical preferences , but there not as heavily project and thrown at in men’s faces . ( example , you don’t see commercials for Height pills for men even though a lot women always talk about having a tall man. Now you can find tons of advertisements , videos etc… On something like ” how to get a booty like JLO, or butt injections , booty pop pants).

    Now while some of it is insecurity . Those insecurities don’t just stem from no where. When it comes to topics such a the beauty of black women ( especially when it involves skin color) I think some black women just wish more black men would be empathetic instead of just pushing it to the side and saying ” your insecure”. Kind of like when men throw around the word crazy. Also some women’s color issues run deeper than you will ever understand so, sometimes it’s not jealousy or envy when an Amber or Cassie is mentioned , but maybe it’s just hurt .

    I personally though the whole ” color debate ” on last weeks post was unnecessary and had nothing to with the topic , and was just out of the blue. Yes he named all light skinned/ exotic women, but these were all women with questionable past, thy we all knew and who some probably had a distaste for, it’s not like he was doing a post on top 10 beautiful black women in the lime light etc… No as an individual Black man you aren’t responsible for the self esteem of every black woman. And yes some of us have to work on our self esteem and how we value out selves but its not as easy as some men try to make it sound.

    • Sith King Jordan

      "( example , you don't see commercials for Height pills for men even though a lot women always talk about having a tall man"

      no, we just get bombarded with different types of pills during our uhm.. 'enhancement' remedies during evening/late night…

      (insert Enzyte Bob grin right about here – http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads18/TVad+Enz

      • Uncle Hugh, BP

        Enzyte Bob grin almost made me give up the ghost!

    • http://twitter.com/Neuronerd17 @Neuronerd17

      I agree with you except for the first part about T.V. Sorry but in America both sexes are bombarded with television commercials all the time. There are no commercials for height pills cause they don't exist, but believe me the minute they do we are gonna have a full on Gattica situation with a woman on screen talking about how she's not attracted to anyone under 6'1 now that height extenze has been approved.

      Men just get male enhancement cause no matter what you think your junk is too small, your stomach doesn't have enough abs to flex, your muscles can always be bigger and more toned, your sexual performance can always be enhanced. Still can't get ladies? must be cause real men wear this cologne, hair product, wear these clothes, suits, drive this car. It really is a cultural thing you find in first world countries (Gotta use that philosophy minor for something outside of academia). Though I will agree with my mother here. It is a little wrong that they put up every little detail about that time of the month even percentage of heavy flow all up on the tv and packages, but they don't do that when referring to men's gentalia hahaha.

    • Smilez_920

      I’m not sayin there’s nothing advertised to men, but not at the same rate as women. ( I don’t count Viagra lol because that’s a win for men who aren’t ready to to stop using their tool.)

      I’m saying that women’s body image is constantly under scrutiny , of course people try to sale things to men, but I don’t feel like its at the same rate .

    • DrRDB

      I hear what you're saying, but just like the Jordan and Neuronerd said, there are growing pressures and ads aimed at men's insecurities as well. But there are a few things that are at the heart of this is people have to own how they feel about themselves. It's much easier to point fingers outward and place blame than it is to take the time to look within and figure out your own issues.

      The topic/post last week was about qualities Dr. J finds attractive, but as we all saw the comments went left quick. Her past, her education (or lack there of), and of course her color all got thrust into the spotlight when none of that was mentioned in the first place. If was kinda funny at first watching so many egos get bruised so easily, then it was it little sad, then it was just a pity party.

      It's funny that a man can say he likes long hair, lighter skin, nice T&A, etc. and it's Armageddon in the e-streets; but when women state they like the mark of the beast (6 ft.+, with a 6-pack, making 6 figures) it's all good. I think it's fair to say generally men don't whine about it as much and we're not going to spend all day crying about your standards of beauty. I'm sure our reasons are all varied, but at the end of the day a preference is not a requirement, and it damn sure isn't a dealbreaker. Meaning I can be in the mood for steak, but that doesn't mean I don't like seafood.

      In general, people have to stop being so hurt when they find out they're not the proverbial "it" for every person on earth. No one can be everything for everyone. Read that again if you have to. And know that Amber Rose isn't it for everyone just like Idris doesn't get every woman going. But that doesn't keep either one of them awake at night… which was the point of the post in the first place.

    • Dr. J

      I think that media is driven by ad revenue and ratings. I think that because men make more money and spend more money and are in control of spending decisions in the market that's why most of the marketing is targeted towards them. That's why you probably see more of the stuff targeted towards men.

      To your other point, I don't doubt that the insecurities comes from somewhere, but women can't blame others for their own insecurity. No one can make you feel a certain way about yourself. The verb there is "feel" and nobody can make you do anything you don't want to do. If women begin to concede that point all hell breaks loose. You mean to tell me that I can start writing off things I do because it stems from someone else? So the reason why I let shorty woo me off the other night is because my old lady wouldn't do it before I left the crib? So it's her fault right? It stems from her not doing her job at home?

      Come on, how does that logically make sense or hold up?

      • Stephen

        “Come on, how does that logically make sense or hold up?”

        This is one of the area where women really need to think about what they say and what kind of image they create for themselves. There was a time, not very long ago, where many men felt that women were not capable of making decisions for themselves or could not be in control of themselves, and thankfully women went a long way to prove this to be untrue. However, when it comes to discussions like this, women undermine this image of self-determination by implying that men are responsible for their insecurity.

        • Smilez_920

          Hold up. Let's be honest as a society we focus more on the beauty of men then we do women, just like with men we focus more on them being providers than looks. No; men are not solely responsible for the insecurities of women they don’t know or do know. But these are factors for some women that play a role in them building self esteem. Not all but some. I was giving an example of how beauty standards are set higher for women across the board than it is for men (at least in the media).

      • Bree

        Contrary to popular belief from a psychological perspective what you say about a person does affect them. Words do as much, if not more damage than physical abuse many times because as you guys know from being writers there is power in words.
        For instance as a child I preferred my mom to whup my azz rather than yell at me. Her words cut like a knife and she would go off like you stole everything she had. My mom had the ability to chop me down and make me feel like I committed murder and be extremely remorseful when I did something wrong. I hated getting yelled at and scolded by her. At least when she whupped me she didn't say as much and I didn't have to deal with her harsh words of disappointment and making me feel bad about whatever I did. When kids are teased about things like their complexion, their height, their weight, it typically stays with them for life.

        • Bree

          Many people can remember being teased about stuff as far back as 5 yrs old when their in their 30's, 40's and older. And it also affects that person and how they see themselves. Many times the low self esteem that you see in a person has been there since they were a child. And as long as it took to do the damage that has been done, it will take that much longer to repair it. Anytime you have little black girls of various shades all choosing a white or lighter complexioned babydoll over the darker ones and thinking the white or lighter ones are better than the dark ones this is a problem.
          Yall talk about possibly having daughters one day. What if your daughter is teased for being light-skinned, or being dark-skinned or brown-skinned? What if your daughter is teased because their features are too white? Or because their nose is too wide. Or if your daughter is teased for being overweight, (by her friends standards) or for being too thin, or too short or too tall. These are the types of things that negatively affect little girls so deeply that they grow up to be very insecure and self conscious women.

        • Bree

          lets be real, even though many people here may not talk down to people based on their looks or talk about people based on their looks, a whole lot of other people do. I've seen grown people hung up on other peoples looks. To this day my stepmom who is almost 50 is still envious of her taller sister who has a more svelte figure than her, longer hair than her, and is somewhat prettier than her.
          This envy and low self esteem in my stepmom didn't just start. Her and everyone else in her family have seen it since they were little children.
          Dr. J don't take for granted that what you say to a person has no affect on them whatsoever. They may never tell you, but what you say about a person may affect how they see themselves for the rest of their lives. Just because it doesn't affect you, doesn't mean it doesn't affect other people.

    • David

      I respect the fact that you, unlike most black women, actually take some ownership and I applaud that.

  • MissLia

    It's not our fault as black women and it's not yours as a black man (although some of you feed into it). It's the world we live in. I get the point of this post, but it is a little disheartening to see an issue that is actually complex made out to be something rather simple. Black women are fully aware of the issues that our brothers face in society, hence why we have been so loyal to yall from the day we touched American soil. We had your backs when no one else did. We just want to see some of that loyalty and understanding coming back our way, that is all. No one black man is responsible for upholding the self-esteem of any or all black women, but that is not the issue. I think, if nothing else, black women expect to be appreciated by black men. Part of that appreciation is in valuing her appearance as a black woman. It can hurt if you feel like you can't even count on black men for that…

    *I will say that last week's comments were unnecessary and missed the point of the article.

    • Dr. J

      I think we have to begin to understand when we are complicating issues versus when it's the world we live in that's complicating the issues. I'll give you an example, I really hate BCC's. There's tons of reasons why people use them, but no matter what that reason is… I still hate them. I've gotten to the point of where I send rants and refuse to reply to them. I've overcomplicated this issue to the Nth degree. At some point, i've got to admit that this isn't really a big issue, it's my issue.

  • http://www.blackgirlmd.wordpress.com blackgirlmd

    You kept saying “regulate” but I think the term you wanted to use was “relegate”.

    Sorry, I’m generally not a grammar nazi, I just found that distracting.

    Anyway in response to the post, I think it’s well understood that skin complexion is a sensitive issue for black people in general, not just black women… And I guess with a good understanding of their key demographic , certain writers on this site like to exploit the topic, as a sure way to ensure comments/page views/get people’s blood boiling, etc.

    I mean… Come on. If black males are soooooo tired of revisiting the issue,then… Don’t revisit the issue. The site is called singleblackmale am I right? Meaning black males are responsible for the content. No one forced your hand to write the post or “revisit” the issue today. You could have just kept it moving.

    But you didn’t. And I think we all know why lol.

    • ShuShuMama

      YES!!!

    • CrayolaGirl

      +10000000000000

    • J. Crawford

      Talking out the sides of your mouth, Lack of Accountability and Denial is Not Attractive….

      Whenever SBM and other blogs DON'T speak on this, Women (manily Black Wome) get pissed and say Men "sweep it under the rug" and thus Bring It Up- Again. This is revisited because Ladies Do.Not.Let.It.Go OR Agree to Disagree. This Gender Beef gets put in a Stalemate over topics like this but instead of Getting Over it, we take a break in the form of other topics and then come right back to where it was left off.

    • Uncle Hugh, BP

      blackgirlmd: "I mean… Come on. If black males are soooooo tired of revisiting the issue,then… Don't revisit the issue."

      That's the point, Dr. J didn't revisit the issue. The post last Friday wasn't about love for light-skinned women, it was about qualities he likes in women (and as mentioned in this post, only one had to do with physical appearance).

      Other commenters took a tangent and "revisted the issue".

    • http://www.alltherightquestions.com T.Q. Fuego

      " And I guess with a good understanding of their key demographic , certain writers on this site like to exploit the topic, as a sure way to ensure comments/page views/get people's blood boiling, etc."

      Well dayum. Callin n*ggas out like the umpire lol.

      In their defense though, writing new material daily is a challenge. There's only so much that people wanna hear about, and I've seen days where they approached non-controversial topics and got MINIMAL comments/participation. Gotta say somethin provocative. It gets the people goin! lol
      My recent post How much pride is too much

    • Streetz

      "And I guess with a good understanding of their key demographic , certain writers on this site like to exploit the topic, as a sure way to ensure comments/page views/get people's blood boiling, etc."

      You know what? Im sick and f*cking tired of comments like this. Yes Im reacting, lol, so lets get that out of the way.

      Slim said it best above: We write whats on our minds, and put it here for discussion. A lot of yall read emotionally and not critically. You pidgeon hole writers on this site, make assumptions, and fly with it, which is ignorant.

      You know how much of an emphasis we put on not having fire starter conversations? About not being the site that tells black women why they are single, why they cant find a man and all that other bS? Thats an EASY way to get our #s up, but we dont do that here. in fact, we've taken flack for "being soft" since our inception!

      You cant please everyone.

      The topics that Dr Jay brings up here, are the topics men talk about daily. The topics that we will converse about with our homegirls, our gfs our wives, and our sisters. This is real talk. This is our opinion based off of our experiences. Sometimes yall want to hear what you want and read what you want.

      Life isnt all feet rubs and chocolates from Champs Elyssess. No one needs to get black women riled up. If you want nothing but fake catering posts, that wont be here.

      Keep it real! Let's stop the nonsense!
      My recent post Random Thoughts (A.K.A. the “I aint post in a minute”, post)

      • Truth Be Told

        "You know how much of an emphasis we put on not having fire starter conversations?" <=== Bullshit. Not that I'm complaining though :-). I love SBM and I'll keep coming back and contributing to these fire starter conversations. What people NEED to do is to take the emotions out of it. Stop being so butt-hurt over comments and posts. And if you write, we will discuss. Not because it impacts our real lives in any kind of magnitude, (seriously, how many women on here are really losing sleep over Dr. J's preferences? Really. Now Most on the other hand…… I digress) but because it makes for interesting dialogue. Plus we enjoy riling Dr. J up. I kid, I kid! But truthfully, keep the fire starter posts coming and we will discuss and disagree and threaten never to come back on here… Then we will log off and go lead our normal lives and check back later for the next post. It's really not that serious…..

        • Streetz

          Theres a difference between writing inflammatory post for the sake of being inflammatory(which we DONT do) and writing a post that has heated conversation (which is cool if it happens organically from people who comment and contribute)

          So wherever firestarter applies in that, apply that lol
          My recent post Random Thoughts (A.K.A. the “I aint post in a minute”, post)

      • http://www.blackgirlmd.wordpress.com blackgirlmd

        Streetz, I don’t know if you totally missed the last paragraph of my comment on purpose or if it was to truthful for you to deny or what but… Dude went on this whole diatribe talking about he’s tired of talking about this stuff. If so, the answer is pretty simple right? Don’t talk about it.

        Either way, I think I’ve read enough insulting comments written by people on this this post today.. I’m not coming back here. I should have known this was BS when I realized that NONE of my black male friends patronize this site. I’m out.

        Happy blogging :-).

      • http://www.blackgirlmd.wordpress.com blackgirlmd

        Streetz, I don’t know if you totally missed the last paragraph of my comment on purpose or if it was to truthful for you to deny or what but… Dude went on this whole diatribe talking about he’s tired of talking about this stuff. If so, the answer is pretty simple right? Don’t talk about it.

        Either way, I think I’ve read enough insulting comments written by people on this this post today. The post itself was insulting. I’m not coming back here, or going to lend my support to a site that goes out of its way to insult me. Black female insecurity? I’ll come back when Dr J owns up to the fact that he still cries cuz girls called him “night walker” and “size small” growing up. I should have known this was BS when I realized that NONE of my black male friends patronize this site. I’m out.

        Happy blogging :-).

  • Muze

    oh gosh.
    My recent post too much, too soon?

  • Truth Be Told

    How much of a reaching did you have to do to come up with that title? Here we are, AGAIN, reading a reactive post to a previous Dr. J post that somehow turned into light-skin/dark-skin commentary and black men's preference/non-preference as the case may be. Deja vu all over again. At some point Dr. J, as a blogger, you're gonna have to let certain things slide and stop taking everything your commentors say so personal. What you're doing in this post is making a sweeping generalization and asking a ridiculous (are you really serious about that title?) question just because you didn't like what "Sofia" said.

    In your last paragraph, you say how tired you are of this topic. And I agree. 100%. Problem is, despite all the other comments that agreed with your post and didn't mention anything about Amber Rose's skin color, you CHOSE to highlight the one that did. Tired? I don't think so. Because, here we are, again, thanks to you, doing it all over again.

    PS: Black women insecure? Chile, show me a 350 lbs darkskin woman and a Victoria Secret model and I'll show you what insecure looks like. Your preference is not making anyone secure. Keep on doing you Dr. J and I promise, despite the Sofias of this world, your choices and preferences are completely fine and you're entitled to them.

    • oh ok…

      *snaps*

    • sensesocommon

      "show me a 350 lbs darkskin woman and a Victoria Secret model and I'll show you what insecure looks like"

      Love it! LOL!!

    • Dr. J

      I don't think it was that great of a reach in my honest opinion. I think that it was reflective of the fact that I needed to say something in response to the comments on Friday. In all things please know that I don't take anything that comes off the Internet personal. I am just trying to provide the venue for discussion and thoughts. Personal? Hell naw. Since i've been writing on this blog, i've continued to date who I wanted to date, love who I wanted to love and do the things I wanted to do. Attacks on the Internet haven't stopped my grind, so I don't take anything here personal.

  • http://twitter.com/Neuronerd17 @Neuronerd17

    I don't know man. Every time I hear stuff like this I wonder who the people were in these individuals lives that made them feel so sensitive to the issue. I am going to use my mother and sister as an example just cause they are the women I know best. MY mother always said when she was growing up my uncles always complemented her on her dark skin and just being black period.

    They had been a part in developing her self confidence growing up so she never had these moments of doubt or insecurity when it came to her skin tone. Being too bony at the time sure, but not skin tone. So even now in her late 40's she has encountered these men who feel the need to talk trash about black women or a certain tone of black and she always just says "you're ignorant" and pays them no mind.

    My younger sister is the same way, but again in our house growing up my mom always had us feeling that black was the thing to be. Me and my sister are lighter than my mother, more brown, but ya know whatever we never saw or even personally heard comments about color until we were older and even then only from such a small group of people we can count them on our hand say "Well there's 4 bouts of ignorance today."

    My mom recently asked my sister how she felt about two boys at our church who have outwardly said they don't prefer black women and my sister, again, just brushes it off as ignorance. They're still friends, but it in no way has bothered her and I think that has a lot to do with our upbringing. I always made my sister feel black and beautiful and now that she's older you can see the confidence in the way she carries herself…hmmm I might of spoiled her too much, but that's fine.

    So yea there are deeper things than this and my mother or friends can probably get more into it, but I think they would also agree with you and tell so many women to stop paying attention to the ignorant men around them or on TV. Especially on TV. I mean imagine if a stranger just ran up to you and in a calm/yelling voice said "you ugly cause you don't look like J LO". You'd probably give him a dollar and call the cops to let them know someone just escaped. Yet for some reason we look at media and random people we don't even know on TV and allow that to affect how we feel about ourselves or the opposite sex. But what do I know it's late, I can't sleep, and I'm not even sure how coherent I am right now.

    • Dr. J

      I just feel that people who love dark skin women are in no place to judge people who love light skin women because at the end of the day shouldn't we just love women regardless of their skin tone.

  • http://twitter.com/cynthialanel @cynthialanel

    Geeze oh no, not again! Can't we just agree that beauty comes in all shades, shapes and sizes? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

    *releases a dove, says a prayer, for anyone that's still butt hurt over one man's preference in women.*

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan.

      nope, cuz they'll be damned if some blogger they dont know dont find them desirable lol
      My recent post Today’s Word is… ACCOUNTABILITY

  • jdoubleu

    You can't win when you're discussing your preferences. Preferences aren't meant to be debated or understood by those who don't fit the mold. And let's be fair, very few dudes are out here marrying the type of exotic chicks we lust after and superficially follow on social networking. Even if that weren't that case, still, a black man shouldn't have to defend or explain why he wants a Cassie/Amber Rose/Kim K lookalike with a great personality as his companion. The man just like what he likes. If that's not you, take your cape off and keep it pushin.

    I guess I look at it as women only get bothered when they feel undesirable. It comes down to the high school game; when the dude that they want is checking for women that look nothing like them, it's gotta sting a bit. I wouldn't necessarily call that insecure. That's what men deal with every day; rejection.
    My recent post A break doesn’t mean you’re broken

    • Peter Parker

      Co-sign 10000 times! It's all about preference.

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan.

      We all have a desire to be desired…even if we dont feel the same way. Plenty of sistas say Diddy look like a mouse but that "all i touch is J Los" line struck a chord. They'd be damned if they arent attractive enough for anyone, but i think thats women in general, women spend so much time on their appearance and character that for it to seem all for naught is frustrating
      My recent post Today’s Word is… ACCOUNTABILITY

    • Dr. J

      I just wish that my preference was defined by Cassie/Amber Rose/Kim K. instead of 5 qualities that I want in a woman. That's the preference I wish I had the opportunity to defend.

      • sincereluv4life

        There's nothing wrong w/ your preferences being defined by the ladies you listed- key word is YOUR preference, you're not responsible for saying anything just to make somebody's feel better.

      • Dude

        Oh, you have defended it before…needlessly too, if I might add. But you have.

      • oh ok…

        I just don't understand why women care what ur preferences are…its just silly to me.
        And the fact that you ONLY use these "ladies"…? Meh.

  • ShuShuMama

    Are Black Male bloggers right to blame a few black female commenters for their personal insecurities?!!! Ah, the irony! Yesterday was actually my first time reading this blog. (Great blog by the way!). And I did both read and comment on the "Wifey Material" blog. As a dark-skinned woman, I mentioned NOTHING about skin color. In fact of the over 150+ comments, most commenters mentioned nothing about skin color. However you chose to focus on the few commenters who brought it up. Here's where the irony comes in. You wrote that Amber Rose is "super awesome" because "she doesn't really care what other people say." and yet here is a whole post dedicated to you caring about what other people say! Really if we are looking for something in a wife, shouldn't we start with ourselves? I'm digressing. My apologies.

    The fact of the matter is, while I do question the choice of women you used as the epitome of wifey material, ("Amber Rose is everything." O_O) they are just that, YOUR choices. And although I do absolutely believe you trivialized a very complex and complicated issue (I could quote a bunch of black psychologists and academics but….meh.),at the end of the day you are absolutely entitled to your preferences, whatever they may be. I prefer big penises and I won't apologize for that! (Sorry those of the little penis variety, it's just my thing).

    "And seriously, as a Black man, we’re tired of it. We’re tired of that conversation. We got plenty of cheese for that whine, but we just aren’t interested in partaking in the discussion." And yet, here you are, here we are, partaking in the discussion. I guess you ran out of cheese?! I don't know. It's 4:20am and I'm sleepy….

    • Muze

      LOL i love all of this comment. errythang.
      My recent post too much, too soon?

      • cynicaloptmst81

        ME TOO!

        I cannot…CANNOT stop laughing at this, LMBO!

        Welp…

    • Slim Jackson

      You wrote that Amber Rose is "super awesome" because "she doesn't really care what other people say." and yet here is a whole post dedicated to you caring about what other people say! Really if we are looking for something in a wife, shouldn't we start with ourselves? I'm digressing. My apologies.

      First off, welcome. Appreciate you reading and commenting. I'll leave the rebutting of your comment in totality to the person it's intended for. My only thought here is I don't think it's accurate to compare this response post to the "caring what people think" idea. I mean…to keep it real, people read blogs because they care what the author thinks. People comment toward the author to let them know what they think. if writers never responded to people and commenters never interacted or cared what other commenters had to say, this space would cease to exist…because everybody cares what someone thinks. Doc probably could have expounded on that idea more, but overall I don't think it was inaccurate. I would've said she doesn't care what people who don't matter think.

      My recent post slimjackson: A lot of slander on the net today (well, everyday). Some people need to crack a Corona and go to the beach.

      • Muze

        except she was on MTV crying profusely because people (strangers who "don't matter") were being mean to her because of the songs about her on Kanye's album, and kept saying "she's a nice girl" and didn't understand where all the hate was coming from. just so you know. she does care. everyone cares to some extent. she just cares to the crying on Sway's shoulder extent.

        *flexes*. lol
        My recent post too much, too soon?

        • Dr. J

          Amber wasn't crying on MTV. She said she didn't understand it. You can't use a word like "crying" so loosely.

        • Muze

          is that why sway had to stop and get her a box of tissue? oh. i watched it homie. she was crying.

          point is everyone cares about how they are perceived. even if it's a little.
          My recent post too much, too soon?

        • Dr. J

          Sway hyped it!!!

        • oh ok…

          Dude, u ok? :-/

        • Chubb

          You mad, bro?

    • Dr. J

      There's a lot to say about your comment but I just want to say this briefly… I didn't list all the comments that came from the Amber Rose post because this post really ain't about that. It's about insecurity. The color conversation, the stripper conversation, the who saved who conversation, the Kanye conversation, the class conversation… all that could have been discussed. It all helped people show their ass.

  • http://twitter.com/sabadaga @sabadaga

    Honestly, I truly believe that some black men are brainwashed and think that lightskin or non-black women are superior.
    I have never heard a white, asian or any other non-black men say "I would never date this chick because of her skin complexion". I am sorry but this ignorant and backwards statement comes in general from black men. It's a shame !! When you look at black men magazines, you see more non-black women than black women but when you take a look at FHM or other magazines who aim a non-black male audience, you see mostly non-black women in it.
    So, why can't some black men see the beauty in black women? This is something that I will never get it.

    • DrRDB

      I have never heard a white, asian or any other non-black men say "I would never date this chick because of her skin complexion".

      You may need some more non-Black friends. I know quite a few Indians (not Native Americans) that have this conversation. And since tanning salons are a billion dollar industry I think it's fair to say that White men aren't checking for pale skinned women. Who really wants to date a ginger?

      Black men do see the beauty in Black women. Despite the doom and gloom for Black women being deserted in marriage there's actual research like http://www.empowernewsmag.com/listings.php?articl… that show sometimes (read: Everyday) people post "tragic" news because people are addicted to bad news. Scandal and controversy sell. It's up to you to decide to not believe the hype.

    • Eliblue

      I’ve heard white guys say that they prefer blondes over brunettes- isn’t hair color just as trvial and meaningless as skin complexion? I’m sure that you don’t really mean that other races of men don’t have preferences when it comes to their women. I wonder why I see so many white girls in the gym working out on a daily basis?? Could it be that white men don’t like plus size women.

      Peace!!!!!!!

      • amaris79

        Um, NO. Hair color can be changed. #NoVybesCartel

        • Sith King Jordan

          #GaaazaFiLife Tho…

    • Dr. J

      that ain't a black man issue, that's a black people issue.

      • http://twitter.com/sabadaga @sabadaga

        I am sorry but whenever I watch a website for black women or a music video with a black woman singer, the men that you see are BLACK. I wish I could say the same about Black men music videos and magazine.

    • amaris79

      Actually, take a look at a few asian channels for a sec. BB Creams, lightening creams, plastic surgery & eyelid "correction" abound\nd. But at least they are truthful and their advertisement says "helps you look whiter so more people like you". **shrug**

    • Cookie

      I agree…I think it is easy to say that the issue lies with black women's insecurities, and in some cases, that very well may be, but at the same time, the dea that black men categorize mixed/non-black women as the epitome of beauty, without looking beyond the surface is amazing, especially considering our history in relation to the lightdark skinned debate. It's sad that we are the only ethnicity who do not celebrate nor appreciate our women.despite the fact that there are many beautiful black women who exhibit positive characteristics that would make them an excellent mate, but are deemed unattractive soley based on their skin color…we are, and can be, our own worst enemies..

  • AfterMath

    I think empathy is an important concept. Not to say that I'm to blame for what a woman thinks of herself, but not trying to ignore the situation like its just a personal problem. What we do does impact things, sometimes things that we do not intend to impact, like the mindset of others.

    Its the same way that your boss may say that "just because there are no Blacks in management doesn't mean that I have a negative opinion of Blacks in management". To him it may have just been a simple decision, but to me or you we look at the board room of old White men and see a pattern. I would hope that if I came to you and told you that I had an experience like this at work, you'd relate to it and not tell me that its just a problem with insecurity. And that's the same way I approach this (and other) issues.
    My recent post Shade The Cells Puzzle

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan.

      well said
      My recent post Today’s Word is… ACCOUNTABILITY

    • LiveLoveSing

      "I think empathy is an important concept. Not to say that I'm to blame for what a woman thinks of herself, but not trying to ignore the situation like its just a personal problem. What we do does impact things, sometimes things that we do not intend to impact, like the mindset of others."

      I really wish this was the first comment on the thread.

  • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan.

    I'm an average height, chubby, darkskinned male. I don't have any tattoos or dreads. I can't grow a full goatee. Those stats alone eliminates me from a good percentage of women. But I'm a man, rejection is part of a balanced breakfast every morning. Therefore I'm not losing sleep over it, why stress over women who dont want me. Plenty, well theres a couple, that do.

    • http://twitter.com/sabadaga @sabadaga

      Simply because, men are not measured by their physical appearance. So, yeah, you're not gonna stress about it.

  • http://www.singleblackmale.org/author/wisdomismisery/ WisdomIsMisery

    People are in their feelings today. People were in their feelings last week. I could write a 2000 word comment as so many people seem motivated to do by both post, but as J already knows, I am planning a full post in response to his posts since we are both afforded the platform to do so. For now, I’ll sum up my thoughts with this:

    1) if you don’t like Js preferences (or any man’s preferences), list your own damn preferences.

    2) to expect every list of standards/preferences to be all-inclusive is not very intelligent at best. that defeats the point of even making a list nor should the list be expected to have a corresponding parallel for everyone listed (eg a relatively appropved light skin woman for every dark skin woman named). Please remove your head from your ass and grow up. This is life. Not everyone gets a participation trophy.

    3) It is what it is.

    - Sent from iPhone

    • AfterMath

      All inclusive, nah I wouldn't expect that. But like I say above if your list has nothing but people who fit int X category, I'm likely to ask was that intentional. If so, then I'm going to wonder why you like people who have that characteristic. If not, I'm probably going to wonder why you chose to name ONLY these people.

      And if this was intentional or not, I really don't see what's wrong with a conversation about those likes and dislikes. I mean, how many times have we (as men) commented on women who gotta have them a thug and then complain about how men aint ****? We don't mind criticizing their choices, are they not allowed to criticize ours?
      My recent post Shade The Cells Puzzle

      • http://singleblackmale.org/author/wisdomismisery WisdomIsMisery

        I admire your attempt to snatch a debate from the jaws of apathy, but I think my thoughts can be summed up this way, "It's a free country, bro."

        • Muze

          must use "jaws of apathy" at some point in the near future. bwaahahaa.
          My recent post too much, too soon?

    • Dude

      How very mature…the level of articulate communication in your response is just outstanding, and I must applaud the lack of feeling in your comment. In case you hadn't noticed or have become immune to the denseness you're so artlessly defending, the issue for many is not that he has preferences.

      • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

        k

  • MsTT

    The point of a public forum is so that everyone can exchange THEIR ideas and opinions about different topics no matter how much THEIR views differ. I love reading the different viewpoints. If everyone agrees then that is just boring. The habitual "cosigners" on every post annoy the crap out of me.

    As for the topic, I think Southerngyrl said it best by stating: "This post is almost similar to a lot of arguments that say Black people have been out of slavery for hundreds of years and they should just "get over it". The problem is it ignores the historical and societal implications of that institution."
    That was pure gold.

  • Uncle Hugh, BP

    We haven't seen the old-school, shots taking Dr. J in a while. I was thinking to myself that someone needs to address this topic when last week's post went off-topic to the light-skin/dark-skin debate again.

    Now I do understand that men are the approachers are visually stimulated, so women may get upset when a man has a preference that doesn't resemble them. I also understand that women are the more emotional sex, so the preference topic affects them more than men. But there are plenty of men that like all types of women, including your type. Find those men and be happy.

  • AfterMath

    “People who say they don't care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don't care what people think”
    – George Carlin
    My recent post Shade The Cells Puzzle

    • cynicaloptmst81

      TRUTH! TRUTH! TRUTH!

    • http://twitter.com/el_botin_negro @el_botin_negro

      And then there are those of us who really just don't care…people don't have to like you, you just have to like you. What they think of you thinking they think of your thoughts sounds tiresome & too much like work!

      • sensesocommon

        "And then there are those of us who really just don't care…people don't have to like you, you just have to like you." ~el_botin_negro

        Can we add this to the google search stream? lol

      • cynicaloptmst81

        accepting/not letting it change your movements and not caring are two different things…

        …the latter is not realistic depending on the who and what.

  • http://inanimatethoughts.blogspot.com Animate

    " I didn’t cry any “why won’t mama get me gray contacts” tears, I just kept it moving."

    +1.

    "OK, Sofia."

    +100

    Other than that I don't much to add. Well put.

    My recent post Murci, Murci Me

    • http://inanimatethoughts.blogspot.com Animate

      Actually this is just exhibit #12874b of women not being able to take rejection.
      My recent post Murci, Murci Me

      • BlueSteele

        #BOOM

  • cynicaloptmst81

    Welp…

    I didn't get caught up Friday in the madness…cause I was caught up in some other madness…and cause I really didn't find anything offensive about the post.

    For me, I don't get mad at the opinions of men I'm not checking for, lol. Not saying that to be mean, but I don't know the SBM men like that. So, what they like is what they like. I have enough attention on my end that I don't have to feel any kind of way about whether or not I'm some man I don't really knows type…even though if a certain somebody EVER gave me a solid compliment my ego would become problematic, lol…but I'm not gonna leap of the bay bridge if that never happens.

    • cynicaloptmst81

      HOWEVER, being considerate of others feelings is a lost art. There's a time when you can't, yes. But, there are times when it won't hurt to just be mindful of what your approach will do. For instance, I don't eat everyones potato salad (especially if its too white and runny looking). If I see some I don't like, I'm not gonna keep going in on it…"I prefer yellow-potato salad. I like to see a few pickles in mine. My potato salad needs to be thick, blah, blah, blah…" making the poor soul who made it grossly aware that I'm not feeling her dish. Not the best analogy but, lol…hopefully someone got a bit of my point. *shrugs*

      I mean, I have no real clue what the other SBM fella's preferences in womens is, lol. But we all know what Dr. J is checking for, LOL. Not that I take issue with you making it known…I'm just stating a fact. LOL. Take that how you wanna…

      • http://singleblackmale.org/author/wisdomismisery WisdomIsMisery

        That's cuz mayonnaise based potato salad aint nuttin but the devil and I gives not a damn whose feelings are hurt by that so by my estimate, BEST ANALOGY EVER!

        • cynicaloptmst81

          Its the absolute worst, isn't it?! Its doesn't even look right, LOL! Ewwwwww….

        • AfterMath

          mayonnaise don't belong on anything.
          My recent post Shade The Cells Puzzle

        • GirlSixx

          *record scratch*

          Wait a minute now!! We talkin bout Mayonnaise NOT Miracle Whip. You be surprised what a little Real Mayonnaise can do to some mac-n-cheese. :) and don't get me started on them post turkey day Turkey with stuffing and cranberry sauce sandwiches.

          Hellman's Mayonnaise Is DA TRUTH!!!! #CarryOn.. :)

        • That's My Story

          "and don't get me started on them post turkey day Turkey with stuffing and cranberry sauce sandwiches."

          LMBAO!!! Too funny!!!

  • Smilez_920

    The color/exotic woman is never an easy conversation to have. There is a lack of understanding and empathy on both sides of the conversation. I’m sure most black people understand were colorism stems from. And while many black men feel like they don’t individual try to be little darker skin women or black women who are not mixed/exotic you can't act like some black men preferences to these types of women don’t develop from a negative place. Example “I only date Spanish and white women because black women don’t do this that and the third.” Or when I see the dark skin women slander it seems to always come from a man who looks exactly like the woman he’s slandering. So these “insecurities” come from a deep place for some women. That’s were empathy has to kick in.

  • Magg

    - The women Dr J listed are BEAUTIFUL period.
    - Dr J's post had NOTHING to do with skin color. (That's why some of yall reading comprehension had been put in doubt)
    - Though a lot of men disagreed with the Amber Rose's choice only WOMEN brought the skin color argument.
    - Women have preferences too.
    - Black men who try to bring black women down are a MINORITY, I don't understand why we keep on focusing on them. Their opinion simply is irrelevant!
    - We shouldn't have a classification for all our shades: WE ARE ALL BLACK (I still can't swallow the "beige" term… No really we say that?!) The lack of UNITY is the real issue.

    • J. Crawford

      The past part is THE Problem with our African Marican/Black Community; everyone else DO NOT Care about Shade- We are BLACK and to Some, Black is Inferior, Black is a Threat, Black is Ugly, etc., and WE need to Get Over Ourselves and Come Together, Hold ourselves Accountable and Help with the Overall Unity of the Nation/World

  • BlueSteele

    I'm still confused at how Dr. J (or any man) lusting after a woman who does or doesn't closely resemble me makes me less beautiful, why I would think that way, or why that would be his problem. Ladies we have to do better, I'm sorry, but we do!

  • BlueSteele

    **Awaiting the "That's easy for you to say, you're light-skinned…" responses**

    • Magg

      *I got your back*

    • Smilez_920

      lol @BlueSteele i understand where your coming from. It's hard to have this convo when ppl ex out your opinon just because your "light skin". You know how many light skin women have dark skin mothers and how many light skin women have dark skin daughters .I'm sure we have some say in the color discussion sheesh!!!

  • DC123

    Aw, man…too much one could say about this subject. I’ll go with the “preference” matter. We are spoon-fed these “preferences;” as much as we’d like to think we’re in control of our preferences, we’re not. (There are so many examples of this, whether they be historical, global, racial, social,…so on and so forth). And of course, many a time, whom we end up with, does not correlate with our so called preferences, which, in my opinion, is a beautiful thang.
    Also, if everyone were touting Venus Williams, or India Arie (insert anyone who isn’t viewed as typically beautiful), as the Beyonces and Rihannas of the world, or even black women, in general, as the blonde-haired, blue-eyed women of the world, then they/we would be at the top of the preference totem pole.
    Again, it’s all contrived and constructed, so stop calling it a preference. Unfortunately, we’ve all been brainwashed to a degree, some are more affected than others. That’s the way of this messed up world. And as a 23 yr. old, still doe-eyed and optimistic, black woman, I hope to change this, because I am totally tired of these discussions (I went to an elite, private college, and for four years, these discussions were my life, so yeah, I’m tired…we’re all tired, but there’s still work to be done on this front).

    • http://twitter.com/el_botin_negro @el_botin_negro

      EFF THAT….Venus ain't cute AND last time I checked, you'd have been better saying Serena…Gabrielle Union & Meagan Good are touted though

      • DC123

        lol…1) I never said Venus was drop dead gorgeous. I used her as an example to show that if the media were lauding her as the most beautiful human being to grace planet earth, then many of us would say, of course she is…we'd all find her more on the generally attractive side, instead of the generally not so attractive side (all subjective, by the way). Moreover, I specifically picked Venus of the two, because she doesn't get as much play as Serena..i.e. we all know what Serena is celebrated for….her body.

        You're stretching it with Meagan Good…I'd classify her as more on "passable" side. Gabrielle Union gets action…in the black community, outside of that, no one really knows who she is..and sadly, that goes for many of the young, beautiful, black actresses, unless you're Halle Berry, or Zoe Saldana.

  • Streetz

    EFF THAT!
    You know how feverishly and venomously light skinned men are roasted, and yet we still have to live in the harsh realities of this world? having to have women look at me and immediately assume that id rather brush my hair than be a man to them? Hearing about how we havent been in style since Debarge's first album dropped?! And yall wanna roast about preferences!!

    I will not stand for this anymore!

    Just because I exfoliate and groom myself well doesnt mean i am less of a person!

    I. Am. SOME-BODY!!!

    I Hate you Dr Jay!!! You dark skinned cats never let us live! SHYT!
    My recent post Random Thoughts (A.K.A. the “I aint post in a minute”, post)

    • http://singleblackmale.org/author/wisdomismisery WisdomIsMisery

      Real talk… Light skin dudes have and will never recovere from… http://youtu.be/uk6DAZ5LqaU

      • http://inanimatethoughts.blogspot.com Animate

        LMAO! I'm through with you dude.
        My recent post Murci, Murci Me

    • GirlSixx

      Streetz you killin me…

      lmaooooooo @ id rather brush my hair than be a man to them. *can't breathe*

      loll

    • http://twitter.com/cynthialanel @cynthialanel

      so funny after reading this I immediately thought, "geeze, who stole this dude's wave cap?" lol!

  • InsomniaPoet

    I think the Amber Rose post took a turn because one of your readers saw something in the article that maybe you (Dr.J) didn't intend to even be an issue when you wrote it. I don't think that automatically makes that person insecure. As a blogger isn't it your goal to have people read what you write and discuss how it makes them think or feel? That is exactly what happened and now you are criticizing that person for participating in your blog b/c they took the conversation somewhere you didn't want it to go. This is the internet! If you post something, you open yourself up to whatever responses it may garner (even if they aren't agreeable to you) If you want to say stuff and not run the risk of opposition then you better stick to talking to yourself, not blogging. I think it is a little naïve to think you can post an article on this site and throw out Amber Rose-KimK-wifey material and not get a response from some black woman who is like WTF not these chicks again.

  • InsomniaPoet

    The truth of the matter is unless a woman is physically over the top (dark or light) most brothers would not be willing to wife the ex-stripper/sex-tape vixen. Then you add in that every woman you mentioned (maybe not intentionally) looks a certain type of way – of course someone is gonna peg you as perpetuating the color complex. It may be possible the reason you keep encountering this tired debate is you, and not the “insecure black women.” Yes, you are entitled to your preferences but you cannot take your personal preferences to a public forum and get pissed off when someone calls you on them. Sorry – but that is the cost of the doing business. Now, I had no problem with your Amber Rose article. I focused on your five points; not necessarily the women you mentioned in the article. Those five points could easily apply to many women of all shades and ethnicities. When I saw the comments start going down the color road I just had to smh and say – yep, saw that coming.

  • InsomniaPoet

    But today’s post pisses me off! The title alone PISSES me off! How dare you?? The color complex is such a deep-rooted issue in our community that for you to just brush it off as a black woman’s “insecurity” is appalling. You should be ashamed of yourself. You cannot start off framing the issue that way and think that anyone should believe that you are genuinely looking for a resolution to the problem. You are clearly taking an opportunity to seriously discuss a real issue w/in our community as an opportunity to bash “insecure” black women instead. And you wonder why we may have any insecurities stemming from black men’s behavior? *scoffs* If you really care to know why some black women harbor this particular “insecurity” then ask that – don’t take the defensive and write an article that starts off by pitting black men against black women from jump. I think the point you are continuing to miss is that this “insecurity” is bigger and deeper than you and your personal preferences.

    • ShuShuMama

      Indeed! But they don't hear you though….

    • J. Crawford

      See, THIS RIGHT HERE is EXACTLY what my 1st and 2nd post on this topic is about– Bringing It Up, AGAIN…….

      Am I going to get a Thumbs Down for This, too???

    • BriA

      Exactly Insomnia Poet!!! What gets me with this “it’s just a preference” thing is that people tend to ignore that while, yes, some light-skinned men do proclaim that they want a “redbone” or whatever the term is for light-skinned women at the moment. But, from what I have seen, and in my experience, it’s usually the dark-skinned men that proclaim it the most and loudest. So are we just going to act like this is a coincedence. There was a guy on fb that is darker than night, saying that he doesn’t like dark-skinned women. How can you dislike what you are??? Makes absolutely no sense!

      • http://twitter.com/el_botin_negro @el_botin_negro

        He don't wanna risk having a baby even darker than him, so he needs a white crayon to mix with & make gray….

    • true black lady

      Very, very, very well said. Two thumbs up.

  • InsomniaPoet

    Should people be able to be self-confident and just say eff it he isn’t the one for me then? Yes. But is constantly hearing from ANYONE that you aren’t enough, or you don’t measure up, or etc. how insecurity happens? YES! I mean damn on some level can you as a black man have some loyalty to us black women? Not saying we have to be your preference, but can you at least attempt to understand how and/or why we may feel a certain way without calling us insecure whiners? Couldn’t this post have said, I love my sisters and I want our community to be stronger overall so let’s seriously discuss the color complex? Let me explain that my preferences don’t mean I hate the darker-skinned sistas? Hell you could’ve even said here are examples of darker women who exude the same qualities I listed in my Amber Rose article who are amazing women but just don’t rock my boat. Not saying you had to but you could have.

    • Smielz_920

      I agree except for the last part about the examples. I don’t think the post was about amazing women and their amazing inner qualities. The post was about women who to the world had shaky past, multiply connections to industry men, wild behavior (Amber Rose has been naked all over the internet since day one, Bi-sexual stripper, supposedly hoeing through the industry etc…) women whose actions to some men wouldn’t qualify them as wifey material and what could possible make a man like Wiz ignore all of that and still marry her. Then he threw out some qualities that she might have and how those qualities are something he wants his S.O. to have. This isn’t even in reference to the skin tone thing, women knocked her for not having a degree, called her a gold digger, fast etc… I just think people don’t want to see Amber Rose and Wifey in the same paragraph. Also Amber and Kim got most of their shine from these situations, their women that everyone has heard of, and their women who some women don’t consider wife material, and women whose relationships are all over the media.

      • InsomniaPoet

        I didn't mean for him to pick Michelle Obama as compared to Amber Rose, but he could've picked some dark skin dirter, I mean video vixen/sex tape star…unless of course it is only the "exotic" lighter sistas who are good enough to be famous video vixens and still be exude wifely qualities…

        • Smilez_920

          But they passed video vixen status. Honestly, it just that everyone knows or/ think they know all the men who Amber and Kim have slept/dealt with. I mean unless most women have a subscription to king magazine, or one of the other booty magazines, we wouldn’t really know the other woman light skin or dark video vixens, that Dr. J would be writing about. I guess we’ll just agree to disagree. I just took the post as him picking women who other people consider, classless, talentless; (what ever other insult was dropped) women and what a man might possible see in her that could be a universal quality that any woman might posses. (Not looks but intrinsic qualities.)

          Side note: If he had picked all dark skin women, I don’t think this post would have gone over well either way. I could see a comment like “O the dark skin girl is this but what about Amber or Kim.. Ooo wait it’s because their light/ not black”…. Some post just aren’t going to be taken well by everyone which is fine.

        • InsomniaPoet

          Very valid points. I have to agree if it were all chocolate girls it woulda still been controversy. But let me be clear my problem was NEVER with the initial Amber Rose post. My issues came solely from today's post.

    • http://twitter.com/sabadaga @sabadaga

      I entirely co-sign what you are saying. Loyalty should be reciprocal, unfortunately black men don't see it that way.

  • InsomniaPoet

    You say most black men feel like “Who cares” when it comes to this debate and my answer would be WE CARE – a lot of black women care. And isn’t that the very definition of the support you valued in Amber Rose? I could care less about x issue but it matters to you, so I am gonna care about it like it is my issue. I don’t need you to consider me the prototype, you can be with all the “exotic” women you want and still be a supportive brother. I’m just saying.

  • http://singleblackmale.org/author/wisdomismisery WisdomIsMisery

    Question… Sooo, how many of y'all run over to Jet/Ebony/Essence/Nicole Bitchie/Bossip/MadameNoire/Clutch/*insert other popular black website of choice* comments when they highlight a dark-skin woman as beautiful to complain: "y'all don't highlight enough beautiful light skin women!" or let's take it a step further, "why are there no white women on this list?!" and then say "y'all got a dark-skin complex!"
    http://www.helloloser.com/wp-content/uploads/2012

    I'll wait…

    • ShuShuMama

      O_o

    • ShuShuMama

      Question… Sooo, how many of y'all run over to Jet/Ebony/Essence/Nicole Bitchie/Bossip/MadameNoire/Clutch/*insert other popular black website of choice* comments when they highlight a dark-skin woman as beautiful to complain: "y'all don't highlight enough beautiful light skin women!" <—–Ah, the always irrelevant hypothetical situation used to make a point again. lol

      • BlueSteele

        Real question: Why is that irrelevant?

        • ShuShuMama

          Because it would never happen. :) In America. lol

        • BlueSteele

          yeah ok

    • InsomniaPoet

      KimK aint white?? OHHHH OK 0_o

      • BlueSteele

        Armenian

        • Taylor

          Armenian = nationality.

          Armenians are in fact considered caucasians.

        • Shamira

          they share way too much Iranian and Kurdish ancestry to be considered just Caucasians. Unless we're considering Turks Caucasians too….

        • Southerngyrl*

          Her Dad is the one that had Armenian ancestry. Her mom, if I am not mistaken, has purely European ancestry, so yeah, most likely she puts dont caucasian on the census form.

        • InsomniaPoet

          Is Armenian not white? I am just asking for clarification b/c I hear people say all the time that she isn’t and it my opinion Aremnian = white.

        • Bananeira

          Girl didn't you know? They try to note anything outside of that girl's questionable natural curves to classify her as "exotic".

          *rolls eyes*

    • Kya

      Because that will never happen – light skin is more celebrated -thats a fact not an opinion. Its like a white person saying blacks have it better than they do, because they aren't able to apply for minority scholarships, say the N word, or make black people jokes without striking a nerve, like alot of black people can.
      Theese magazines and websites are few places dark girls can go and feel celebrated because all we hear is the "don't worry you're just as pretty" politically correct crap and then go on tv and see the 1 dark girl barley in the shot of the camera.

  • BlueSteele

    RIGHT! (No knock to Doc, you're a cutie in my book)

  • 55blackeyes

    Insomnia poet hit the nail on the head! It seems that He was offended, if not pissed, about the few commenters who expressed their opinion on the issue and therefore, labeled them insecure. The commenters seemed to be opening up about a very serious issue that he did not expect (for some crazy reason) so now he has the audacity to label them insecure as a way to divert attention and legitimacy away from their opinions/comments – a very passive aggressive act, I must say! Regardless of the issue, that was a cowardly move. Defend your blog without resorting to name calling and turning on your readers who disagree! (I know this is harsh language but I feel very disappointed that he would make light of such a serious, deep rooted issue and turn it around as an "insecurity" because he got his feelings hurt.)

    • Dr. J

      I really wasn't offended. The harsh reality is that most of the times when you guys react to the posts we write, we don't even care what you think. We put out these thoughts and these are our opinions. Now let's examine that for a second, what if we changed our mind because of something someone we don't know on the internet thinks about our opinion? That would be a weak ass opinion in my mind. Let me tell you what happened on Friday…

      I read the comments about the post. I decided to only respond to a few. I then did this, in this exact order.

      1) I spent 30 minutes on Rosa Acosta's Instagram.
      2) I decided to catch up on #ThongThursday because I was busy on Thursday at work.
      3) I went on Celebuzz to look at Kimmy Cakes new pictures.
      4) I had a conversation on gchat about if I thought Amber would get rid of the baby weight when she had the kid and me and my homie concluded that it really didn't matter because as long as a girl is a freak in the sheets men really don't care all that much.
      5) I reminded the Amber Rose in my life that she is in fact my Amber Rose.
      6) I spent another 30 minutes on Rosa Acosta's Instagram.
      7) Checked back in with SBM to shake my head and think to myself, "Damn they really mad."

      That was it.

      • InsomniaPoet

        Question, if you don't care what your blog supporters think why do you blog? Not trying to be a smarta$$ really want to understand.

        • Dude

          And he said all that. But he's not in his feelings though. He really wasn't offended, and he really didn't take it personal…but he thought it made sense to tell us how the bloggers who spend their time and energy on bringing us posts, and recently on redesigning, really don't care about their readers' feedback. #cool story.

    • J. Crawford

      Pandering Cosigners and Mr/Miss/Mrs. Me Too aare the Laziest Commenters, and 55blackeyes, you are the Very Epitome of a Pandering Cosigner/Mr.Miss/Mrs. Me Too

      • Taylor

        Pot, meet kettle.

  • L.A. Williams

    I dig SBM and I'm so glad it's doing well. Still, sometimes when I read posts on SBM, I can't focus on the content because of the poor grammar, confusing sentence structure, etc. For example:

    "Listen, that problem is not only regulated to just Black women . . ." should read, "Listen, that problem is not only relegated to just Black women . . ."

    Just sayin. Thanks for the thoughtful post, though . . .

    • http://singleblackmale.org/author/wisdomismisery WisdomIsMisery

      As one of the editors for the site, I can personally say "STFU" with a straight face.

      Thanks for the comment, though.

      • Kopa

        Why are you so offended when someone points out a clear mistake? Isn't that a good thing, cause now you could go and fix it? That's what most blogs do with grammar mistakes…

  • bellatrice1

    Here is what I've realized…

    There are regulars commenting and folks who are new to the site. Those who are new to the site are not familiar with the writings of Dr. J. Those who are not new ARE, and therefore have a deeper understanding of where Dr. J is usually coming from when he typically writes a post, which is part of the reason why not too long ago, he decided to stop writing about relationships. Not too many people are super excited that that writing has resumed, but I digress.

    My comments on the post which prompted this post were more focused on the fact that he chose a certain type of woman (not race or skin tone) – all he listed were known as industry groupies and sluts. If women go to a particular site to get "an URBAN MALE perspective" which is what this site purports to give, then why would one be surprised that women would not assume that the qualities/women listed were not qualities that many urban men look for in a wife, not just Dr. J?

    The thing about writing that someone eloquently pointed out in the previous post is that things don't always HAVE to be expressly stated. People who are intelligent can sense and extract certain things and feelings from the written word that others can't. I say all that to say, I have already concluded certain things about Dr. J based on other posts that I will not mention here so as not to go off on a tangent.

    All in all, we are all entitled to our preferences, but to write some post about the search for a wife and include the likes of Kim K, Amber Rose and Rosa Acosta, one must wonder. Pointing out that these are Dr. J's preferences and shouldn't be applied to the masses is similar to when athletes say, "I don't want to be a role model, don't look up to me," but that doesn't stop people from in fact looking up to them. Here, every time you write, you are influencing the minds and thoughts of others whether you like it or not, but I would think that would be your intention as a blogger. You say, "these are only MY preferences," but others apply your advice and your words to their relationships, lives, etc. I would NEVER, but some do and you have to be prepared for a discussion about those preferences or that advice. It is what it is.
    My recent post Answers to Your Common Dating Questions

    • Dr. J

      This would be "church. preach. tabernacle." if when we write about people who are not in the mainstream those posts got traction. They just don't get the same traction and nobody reads. If I write a post titled, "I Met Her: I Love Her" none of you would read it. Doesn't matter that it was an epic post about how I found the one I think i'm gon' love forever.

      • Streetz

        Or lets not forget the infamous "brown skin girl" dedication post that got people reacting and made you want to stop writing bout relationships. Im in an igloo tho
        My recent post Random Thoughts (A.K.A. the “I aint post in a minute”, post)

        • bellatrice1

          Sweetie, no one's telling YOU what YOU meant. I've unwittingly had it happen to me. I've written about something and the way I truly felt was revealed in the writing, but it was not explicit.

          Some people are great at spotting BS – I happen to be one of them…
          My recent post Answers to Your Common Dating Questions

    • BlueSteele

      Wait, so are you criticizing him for how others may or may not apply his personal preferences to their lives? 0_o

      • bellatrice1

        Not at all. I think he knows what my comment is getting at. He knows that, as a blogger, whether he likes it or not, his advice, preferences and whatever else will be construed in a certain manner by certain people, and people will want to discuss those preferences, and may even chastise him for it. It comes with the territory. So, I'm basically saying get over it.

        But, at the same time, I have been reading the posts on this site for a while now, so I already know that Dr. J prefers non-Black women, and other things that I won't go into. People that have been commenting for a while know his history and the general tone of his posts, so they are probably using that knowledge to attack him even though the article may have had nothing to do with his racial/color preferences.

        However, like someone said above, our preferences are socially constructed, and really aren't preferences at all. I subscribe to that school of thought and think that many people are influenced by the media and start believing "the hype."
        My recent post Answers to Your Common Dating Questions

        • BlueSteele

          "However, like someone said above, our preferences are socially constructed, and really aren't preferences at all."

          No one in this world will ever get me to agree to that one, but I guess I see what they meant there.

          In 2012, with Black women facing the amount of anguish and scrutiny in everything that we do, or don't do, it's a shame that so many feel the need to get up in arms about a brother preferring "one of them". It's nothing new.

          It seems like a lot of women feel some kind of way about his personal preference for non-Black women but won't directly say that. So instead, they're going crazy over other aspects of the posts.

          I wish someone would just come out and say "Dr. J, you aren't ish for these posts, and it pisses me off that you like ____ women over Blacks (if that's indeed true)." versus beating around the bush with all the historical contexts and feelings of betrayal/disappointment over his posts.

          First to raise her hand and say "No I don't consider myself to be a prejudiced person, but I feel some kind of way about Black men who openly prefer women who don't look like me." gets a medal in my book.

        • bellatrice1

          I agree. I don't take it personally, but I'm also not walking in their shoes. I don't know what they might go through as a dark-skinned woman. I have what someone mentioned above – empathy – for them; the ability to understand how someone feels even though I've never walked a day in their shoes. When you hear so much that a certain race or skin tone is beautiful, but never hear the same about your own, I can understand how that might take a toll on some women. It's the same with being fat, but most people can change that. You can't change being dark-skinned or being Black.

          "I wish someone would just come out and say "Dr. J, you aren't ish for these posts, and it pisses me off that you like ____ women over Blacks (if that's indeed true)." versus beating around the bush with all the historical contexts and feelings of betrayal/disappointment over his posts. "

          That's what I was trying to do…call out those women who really just want to say this. But, no one wants to look like they care, so they dance around the issue.

          "First to raise her hand and say "No I don't consider myself to be a prejudiced person, but I feel some kind of way about Black men who openly prefer women who don't look like me." gets a medal in my book."

          Trust me, this has been said… and worse lol, which is why he had stopped writing for a while about relationships. It got ugly…wish I could remember the post so you can see how they ripped him apart for it.

          My recent post Answers to Your Common Dating Questions

        • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

          You can't change being dark-skinned or being Black.

          Are you under the assumption that you can change being light-skinned or being Black? I've been light-skinned all my life. God didn't consult me on the decision. Further, both my mom and dad are light-skinned BUT my FAMILY's skin tone runs the gamut of shades. Irrespective of Dr. J's preferences – whom for the record, no one but him and God really know. Rest of you can only guess, project, and hypothesize but I guess that's good enough for you, because we all know opinions = facts on the Internet – it irritates me to no end that black people, as you have done here, have the audacity to say or allude that "we need to unite as black people" (when we can't even unite in the comments of SBM.org lol) yet out the same mouth say we need to differentiate the beauty of light-skin women and dark-skin women as if BOTH OF THEM CAN'T BE BEAUTIFUL and the only way to clearly evoke this obvious ass fact is to always supplement every compliment of a light-skin woman by also recognizing a dark-skin woman #AtTheSameDamnTime.

          Y'all are running in circles to prove a point that doesn't need proving. Bellatrice, I respect you more for at least standing by your opinion and outright stating that you don't care for J. I wish more people would just say THAT, rather than all these BS excuses they are using to justify the BS opinions they have today. That said, J is just as entitled to his opinion as everyone else here. Have no idea why people think they are going to change J's opinion by beating him over the head…with their opinion.

          lol This ish is straight out of a comic book, bro.

        • bellatrice1

          Ummm why would I be under the assumption that you can change being ANY skin tone? I hope that question was rhetorical.

          "it irritates me to no end that black people, as you have done here, have the audacity to say or allude that "we need to unite as black people" (when we can't even unite in the comments of SBM.org lol) yet out the same mouth say we need to differentiate the beauty of light-skin women and dark-skin women as if BOTH OF THEM CAN'T BE BEAUTIFUL and the only way to clearly evoke this obvious ass fact is to always supplement every compliment of a light-skin woman by also recognizing a dark-skin woman #AtTheSameDamnTime. "

          I have no idea what you're talking about here. I didn't say anything about differentiating, SOCIETY does that. I am over the colorism issue myself. All I said was that I don't feel that way about Dr. J's preferences, but I UNDERSTAND how one COULD feel that way if they are in the category of women whose beauty is less celebrated.

          Lastly, I was simply getting at the real issue and why people go off on Dr. J every time he writes a post. Period.

          My recent post Answers to Your Common Dating Questions

        • BlueSteele

          Smh, having an OIC moment. I saw the Michelle Obama post he was referring to so I could only imagine how much worse it could get.

    • DrRDB

      Well at least we're at the crux of the matter now. But is it fair he upset at him on his body of posts and use one of them to 'vent' on. I remember the posts you're speaking of and his subsequent post in which J basically "retired" from relationship posts.

      But I have to question and wonder how many men have their opinions of women changed by any of the writers on this site. For any man you can point out who has I'd show you a man that had no clear idea of what he liked in the first place.

      • bellatrice1

        I would agree. You can't convince someone to change their preference. That's like trying to convince someone they're not gay. It is what it is. He likes what he likes.

        That doesn't change the fact that the message that darker skinned women are completely bombarded with is that their lighter-skinned counterparts, and non-Black are more beautiful and therefore more desirable.

        I think it's that, a lot of the women are getting this message from so many different angles – the media, maybe family, friends, significant others or lack thereof that Dr. J is just one more guy to add to that list, so they vent/lash out. I'm not saying they have a right to, but this is probably what's happening.
        My recent post Answers to Your Common Dating Questions

        • goo105

          I'm normally a lurker, not a poster. But I'll have to speak on this. It's boggling to me why some people can't understand how some dark-skinned ladies (and men) might feel, given the history of this country or European colonization in general. I hear all the time in my own church about "how purdy that light-skinneded baby is" while her older, dark sister never got such praise. Hearing those type of comments at a young age can easily affect a person's self-esteem.

          Yes, black women can show a lot of insecurity because of this issue, but it's a bit dismissive to just have a "get over it" attitude. So every time this woman reads a list of attractive women, and only light-skinned or non-white women are included, she may just happen to wince at the end.

        • http://twitter.com/el_botin_negro @el_botin_negro

          Maybe the older sister didn't get that praise b/c she AIN'T purdy, might not have anything to do with color. All babies ain't cute! If you're not complimented, don't just always assume it's because you're dark-skinned….maybe cause you're just not attractive.

  • Dr. J

    my nigga go read the NY Times.

    • Streetz

      crying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
      My recent post Random Thoughts (A.K.A. the “I aint post in a minute”, post)

    • L.A. Williams

      Um . . .no Nigga right here. Just an educated Black American who appreciates your insights. And no need to direct me to a different site; I've no interest in what the New York Post has to say. Just receive the criticism like an enlightened person. Reflect on it. Improve your game. And keep it moving. Peace.

      • Sith King Jordan

        "I've no interest in what the New York Post has to say. Just receive the critic.."

        should read..

        "I've no interest in what the New York Times has to say."

        from a Genius to an Enlightened Black male, i just want to see your content game improve.

    • http://inanimatethoughts.blogspot.com Animate

      *Real tears*
      My recent post Murci, Murci Me

  • bellatrice1

    I disagree. One of the bloggers on this site wrote about how he met his wife and it garnered a large response because it was well-written and interesting. There are other things to write about without getting people all up in arms about your "preferences."
    My recent post Answers to Your Common Dating Questions

  • Streetz

    Yall gotta keep it 100% Some commentors here will look for things in posts that our writers post, and take a conversation left. Jay wrote about Michelle Obama and some of you still found a reason to slander.
    My recent post Random Thoughts (A.K.A. the “I aint post in a minute”, post)

  • Stephen

    Men don’t deal with the beauty aspects of mate selection, we deal with wealth. Beautiful women get selected more than unattractive women and wealthy men get selected more thank poor men. Women are not unique in their troubles, it’s just that the reasons differ for men.

    This may sound a bit cold but men don’t bear any responsibility for women’s insecurity any more than women should feel responsible for the insecurity that a poor man may feel regarding mate selection. That’s just one of those cold realities of life, we have to live with what we’re dealt and understand that the rules governing mate selection will not change to suit our feelings.

  • The CPT

    The answer to this whole post is: Yes, and there is nothing your black azz can do about it!

  • SimplyB

    Strippers don't deserve love too? Just read the previous article. If I were a man, and the 5 points Dr. J pointed out were true, I'd wife Amber Rose too. Everyone has a past, just because it's covered up by multiple degrees, a high income or whatever else, doesn't mean that they don't have skeletons ready to pop out the closet at any second. Also feeling like he might as well add "and blame light skin women" to the heading of THIS post. I'm light skin, but I don't have any hang ups about skin complexion, but feel like I've been silently blamed for the color I was born with….that I had no control over. I didn't feel accepted growing up, I didn't feel better than. I was always picked on, belittled, stayed in the sun in hopes of getting a shade or two darker. But life went on, now I don't care if I'm accepted or not……light, dark, damn dear white, women are just beautiful, whether you have a preference for a certain type doesn't matter.

    *grabs apron and heads back to the house before massa comes and whips all of us*

  • Dr. J

    Will only allow this because you are fam.

    • Muze

      i really hope you see the irony in you being offended that i said you wouldn't be the ideal for these women. lol

      that wasn't a knock at all. i'm just saying women definitely don't have a problem stating their love for Idris or Shemar or Denzel or Columbus or Brad or anybody else that isn't a regular guy.
      My recent post too much, too soon?

    • Streetz
  • http://singleblackmale.org/author/wisdomismisery WisdomIsMisery

    I have a few general questions and observations:

    1) Despite her past, Amber Rose got Kanye West (who could arguably have gotten with any beautiful woman he wanted) to claim her as his girlfriend. She got Whiz Khalifa (who could arguably have gotten with any beautiful woman he wanted) to claim her as his fiance and get her pregnant – on purpose. I'm sorry, but if we're facing facts, a number of y'all can't get regular men of the streets to claim you as their girlfriend or their fiance, pregnant or otherwise, past or no past. Sup wit that?

    2) Amber rose is 29 years old. She's pregnant and engaged. A lot of you claim this as a goal in your life, yet it's something you haven't accomplished despite being older – and let you tell it – more well rounded, and well deserving of such accomplishments and titles. Sup wit that?

    3) A lot of you have focused on J's original list because it doesn't include enough dark-skinned women. Is that really the sole issue here? It's easy to say one characteristic, in this case their relative perceived light skin, is what unites them. But… Rihiana is dark-er skinned with short hair and black. Rosa Accosta is long haired, shapely, and Cuban, b. Kim Kardashian is 5'2, long haired, and Armenian white. Amber Rose is bald headed, curvy, and 5'8. If this list isn't representative of a diverse set of women, then I must not know the f*ck "diverse" means. Sooo, the only reason you're upset is because J didn't toss out a conciliatory dark-skin woman – by your estimate? … sup wit that?

    4) A lot of you judge these women for their "past" despite not volunteering your own past for the same level of scrutiny, when most of the women mentioned have one thing in common: they are guilty of having sex with their boyfriends. How many of you are currently having sexual relations with men who aren't your boyfriend? …sup wit that?

    *shrugs* Just some general questions and observations I had, bros and sises. Carry on.

    • amaris79

      Dr. J's entire post today was meant to say that him stating his preferences were "just that", and any offense meant was solely the responsibility of the reader and was not intentional.

      This comment, however, is intentional.

      …sup wit that?

      • http://singleblackmale.org/author/wisdomismisery WisdomIsMisery

        Last I checked, WisdomIsMisery is not representative of Dr. J. Nor is WisdomIsMisery or Dr. J representative of every black man on Earth. Funny how folks in the comments want to put "everything on the table" yet we, as writers, are not allowed to do the same without cause "offense."

        Miss me with that. It's real easy to throw anonymous rocks from behind the safety of your keyboard, until a mirror is held up then it's all shocked gasps and thumbs downs. lol If y'all want to have this discussion, let's have this discussion. Don't throw punches then act shocked when someone hits back, no Chicago bus driver.

        • amaris79

          Last time EYE checked,
          <—chick in this picture?
          ain't a representative of "folks in the comments".
          But carry on. :-)

        • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

          Last time EYE checked, you were smarter than you're pretending not to be right now :-(

        • amaris79

          **rolls eyes**
          Like I said, carry on….

        • Larry

          *ahem* that would be Cleveland bus driver, sir. #OhioRepresenting! lol

    • BlueSteele

      "I'm sorry, but if we're facing facts, a number of y'all can't get regular men of the streets to claim you as their girlfriend or their fiance, pregnant or otherwise, past or no past. Sup wit that? "

      Oooh, that one cut deep!

      Tell 'em how you really feel WIM!

      • Smilez_920

        Minus point number 3. I have too sort of agreed with WIM. I think some women were upset that Amber didn’t represent what they felt should be wifey material or what they’ve heard other men say is wifey material. I mean how many articles are tailored to women regarding subjects like “ men wanting a lady in the streets , freak in the sheets, a man wants a woman who can represent him well, and what ever other standards that Amber doesn’t fit that are constantly thrown in women’s faces.
        I’ve been reading this site for a while so I really don’t take these posts to heart. Women and ( men) were attacking her about not having a degree and her past. I mean the same things we don’t wont men to attack us on, some women slammed Amber for because they though some blogger put her up as a representative for wifey material. Also no one took into account who she’s marrying. Amber marrying a young weed head rapper with too many tattoos. Unless that’s the type of man your into, why would it even bother you that someone she’s a future with her or that some blogger used her as an example.

        • BlueSteele

          So why is this directed at me? 0_o

    • J. Crawford

      Damn, can we say Missles Fired??!!!!

      BTW, my last two posts that weren't approved weren't Bad, WIM. I didn't curse or anything, smh

    • Sith King Jordan

      "Is that really the sole issue here?"____it really is. not trying to be facetious or anything, and it's been repeated over and over today (and i've heard it in conversation w/ my female friends)…women do feel a way about public adoration of the 'other', of someone not like them. i think this is partly the reason why Michelle Obama is widely looked up to by many black females, because she, is a visual representation of them. I can't tell a female that has been dismissed by others because of their looks, not to take offense, or not find slight in every single word uttered online.____With that being said, on some real talk, this is probably one of those issues that i would not be upfront and honest about. if i ran a blog, i probably would ask others, get a gamut of 'acceptable' women for my audience, instead of giving my honest preferences. and in real life, as well. even though we have progressed as a people, i personally feel it's one of those topics that divides males and females, and no one really hears the other out. ____*puts down his Middle East Mediator hat*__*puts back on the Vader Mask*

    • Truth Be Told

      So you're just going to ignore all the men who held the same views and just call out the women, just like classic WIM? Sup with that…. shrugs.

      Aren't you as single as a dollar bill too? And haven't you been single forever, just like these women you're calling out? What, no regular woman is willing to claim you as their boyfriend or fiance? Your preferences aren't checking for you? Sup with that?

      And why do y'all spend so much time defending the Kim K's and Amber Roses (I LOVE Amber, by the way) of the world like there is even the REMOTEST chance that any of you are going to end up with the poor man's version of them? Sup with that?

      Finally, what's with the attitude towards your female readers? Sup with that?

      *shrugs* Just some general questions and observations I had, BRO. Carry on

      • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

        Get out your feelings, bro.

        Uhhh, I'm pretty sure there was a minority of men represented, like always, so why would I call them out when there were a majority of women represented, like always? And if it's "classic WIM" (i like that name by the way), then why are you acting surprised? :-)

        I am not single. I've consistently kept my status to myself, unless asked. Whereas most idiots people simply assume I'm single because I'm not so insecure in whatever my status may be that I feel I have to lament my single-ness or tout my relationship.

        I don't spend a lot of time defending Kim K or Amber Rose, so IDK what you're talking about.

        I don't have an attitude towards our "female readers." I have an attitude towards people, like yourself likely with this very comment, who think it's ok to go around talking out the side of their neck in the comments, then say something as ignorant as your very comment. I welcome comments, but if you don't want a response to your comment, then maybe you shouldn't say something on a public forum where I am equally welcomed to respond as you are to comment.

        Have a nice day, Truth. Haven't seen you around here for awhile.

    • Southerngyrl*

      Aww. You were probably dead set on trying to hurt someone's feelings with this comment. I called it. I KNEW it was going to get ugly on this one. This particular comment has definitely tipped the scale. This post's comments section is now, in my opinion, uglier than the original. Honestly, sometimes the higher road is the better road. If you think everyone is acting like an ass, the worst thing to do sometimes is put yourself right down in the mud and shit with them and start braying like a donkey.

      • FlyyLibrarian

        Crying!!!

        Loving the entertainment people! :*

      • http://singleblackmale.org/author/wisdomismisery WisdomIsMisery

        k, thanks.

    • ShuShuMama

      Lawd when did men become so damn emotional??!!!!!!!!!!! This can't be life. SMH.

      • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

        "Calm down"

  • sincereluv4life

    sooooooo….. Mr. J lists Amber Rose & a string of otha light skinnededed chics as "must haves" in his lust bucket & the message boards go CRAZY!!!! lol. I personally didn't see it as him taking shots at brown or dark skinned chics…………………………………..

    BUT for the ninja's who do take shots at brown skinned girls (& if he was)…. IT'S THEIR LOSS! They're the ones who miss out on all this chocolateyness :-p Now I don't want this to come across as cocky: but I'm too sexy to be wasting my time caring about somebody who's telling me I'm not their standard of beauty. Who cares. *shrugs*

    Now……. Mr. J didn't even list COLOR on the list of traits he looks for in a wifey? (btw, that list had some GREAT points- i think more of us sista's would've benefits from listening to what the brutha had to say) I think it was just his personal list of celebrity beauties that touched that "light skinned/dark skinned" nerve among some people. But us brown skinned women really need to put this argument to rest – cuz we're too beautiful for that ish & we don't need the sympathy.

    • sincereluv4life

      correction

      *more of us sista's would've "benefited"…..

  • J. Crawford

    On the real, This and last week’s comment thread is simila to what Jon Stewart and Bill Maher described the GOP Ideology being Bullsh*t Mountain and “the Bubble”; SOME Women readers just SEE and HEAR what they Want To and even with FACTS and Other People explaining the context of the Amber Rose post and This One, they STILL are hung up over Colorism, being Hypocritical of a Person’s Past, and Writers NOT Willing to have Moral Obligatory Consideration for Readers. This is like the Catholic Church being the Voice for the Whole Congregation DESPITE Catholics getting Divorces, having Premarital Sex, Kids out of Wedlock and Using Contraception; the People are Not Monolithic and obviously Neither are Men, specifically BLACK MEN, so for the Butt-Hurt and Insecure/Shallow/Frowsy Women out there, GTHOI …

    I

    • J. Crawford

      Admire and Respect SBM and the writers here because these guys Say what Many Men FEEL, BELIEVE and THINK and have the Podium to make these Opinions Heard, which in turn Others, especially WOMEN, either Agree or Disagree; Without SBM and other blogs all of the topics and Conversations wouldn't be detailed and just Hearsay that couldn't be pointed to as Proof that there are Others who Think, Feel, and Believe the same things. At least They and US commenters are putting a "name" and "face" to our Opinions…

  • Shamira

    Man, this is just sad.

    Both sides have valid arguments, but the lines have been so fiercely drawn to absurdity. This is worse than a Presidential debate.

    Some of y'all really believe that liking a light skinned girl is only attributed to social conditioning, huh? (Notice I said SOME please do not jump down my throat if you don't believe it applies to you). Do you realize how insulting that is? 1) It implies that we don't have agency over our own thoughts 2) It inherently devalues any suggestion of beauty for someone of a lightskinned complexion 3) It doesn't make you any prettier in comparison 4) It devalues your lighter skinned friends of their so-called "authentic blackness". I could go on and on….

    That said, I think its facetious to act like men have no hand in womens insecurities. Just like some of y'all remember when LaQuiesha laughed at your valentine in the third grade, tell someone that "they're pretty for a dark skin girl/they would look so much better if they were lighter" a few times and it does take its toll. Now, is it fair to put that on every man they meet? Nah. Nor is it sensical to apply any personal complex you have, whether it was inflicted by others or not, to any discussion that remotely mentions color. That's when people lose me.

    But at the end of the day, preferences are preferences. Social engineering or not, do you really want that dude who is screaming from the mountaintops about how fugly darkskinned women are to proclaim his love for you? Because that says just as much about you as it does him. I'm not pressed about men's tastes if they aren't my boyfriends. *shrugs*

    I still don't think that any of this applies to Friday's post, by the way.

    And I'm sure we'll revisit this conversation at the unofficial SBM NYC happy hour today. Lol

    • amaris79

      +1000
      Aaaand let's hear it for $4 dollar drinks!! #HappyHour

    • InsomniaPoet

      starting the slow clap for you!

    • Sith King Jordan

      and i wasn't invited. hmmph.

    • Smilez_920

      +1 ….. I agree with every thing you said especially your first point .

  • sincereluv4life

    "Some of y'all really believe that liking a light skinned girl is only attributed to social conditioning, huh?"

    There's 1000's of years of social conditioning regarding colorism:
    ~even dates back to the bible: "I'm dark "but" lovely…
    ~house slaves vs. fields slaves
    ~the lena horne's vs. the "mammy's"
    ~Pam Grier: foxy brown
    ~stars like "Whitley" being idealized
    ~Beyonce's vs. Kelly's (Both really talented, but one of their careers has been obviously A LOT more catered to)

    I mean, we're all influenced by social conditioning in some way – (Just look at your shoes, car, hair, clothes etc. etc.) & it doesn't mean we're dumb or unable to make decisions. Our culture is hugely affected by media, it is what it is- but saying it doesn't exist or that it hasn't had a major effect just isn't realistic.

    • Smielz_920

      It plays a part but it’s not apart of every ones story. It's almost like anytime a black man especially if he's dark skin says he finds a little skin women attractive ppl automatically assume he's been conditioned. Like can a black man find a light skin black women attractive with out there always being a “you only like her because she’s light, or she’s only pretty because she’s light, or “you’ve been conditioned to like her”. I mean come on every black man with a light skin woman isn’t color struck, I think that’s were the aggravation in the argument begins.

      • sincereluv4life

        I wasn't saying it's part of everyone's story. But our culture is hugely affected by media, especially our views on what beauty is. It is what it is. I'm just saying that pretending like it's a non factor is just not reality.

  • http://twitter.com/missankofa @missankofa

    Sorry in advance for the essay! Ive lurked on this site for a long time now discovered it last year. Often, I found the discussion just as valuable as the actual post. To be completely honest, I didnt care for Dr. Js delivery on many topics but didnt lose sleep over them. However, it was the comment section for many of his posts (and sometimes the other bloggers) that shed light on some issues that unfortunately still plague our community. And knowing that some of these issues are still so salient and charged for so many people made me sad. I have always been a person that took on the burden of others hurt (perhaps thats why I chose to be a psychologist.) Combine that with me being fresh out of a harmful relationship and feeling vulnerable and it was not a good mix. I found the comments to seriously affect my mood in a way that I was uncomfortable with so I had to take a break from the blog and the negative energy.

  • http://twitter.com/missankofa @missankofa

    The day of the Amber Rose post was my first day back to the site in months. Ain’t that a b**** that that is the first post and discussion I’m encountered after a break from all the drama lol. Either way, I came back a different person and I wasn’t offended. I think Amber Rose and all the other women highlighted are beautiful! And I happen to be a fan of the “bad girl” so I’m not mad that someone will wife Amber up. Plus, given the posts I have read from Dr. J. (e.g., SBM seeks SLF, Are Black Men Obsessed with Latinas, Curse of the short-haired, brown skinned girls) I wasn’t surprised by who he listed. BUT given how I was affected before I completely understand how a women – who been consistently devalued because of her skin tone – might have been offended or in general assumed that the post (given Dr. J’s history) was to praise light skinned or non-black women. And let’s be real colorism is a complex issue, not something to be trivialized and dismissed. And especially not to be responded to by pitting women again each other (e.g., light skinned girls… they don't do this ish.).

  • http://twitter.com/missankofa @missankofa

    I think the key word brought up in this discussion is empathy. Yea, you aren’t responsible for how every black woman who reads this blog feels about herself. But at the least it would be conducive to the discussion to be patient, understanding, and respectful. I find it interesting that some complained about people being “in their feelings” but the harshest comments today came from the those complaining Furthermore, in the discussion last Friday, only a couple of the detractors came off as disrespectful or unproductive. It seemed that many just wanted their view heard and if that’s not the point of the discussion boards, then what is? It seems counterintuitive to get bothered because someone disagrees with but it’s okay to disagree with them. Why is it when someone disagrees with a post like this, they are automatically insecure? Why can’t it be other reasons? That “go to” is just getting old. And it would behoove us to really try to figure out what people are saying before we react and when you feel like someone is misinterpreting you to re-explain yourself without being dismissive.

  • http://twitter.com/missankofa @missankofa

    Finally, if people are constantly responding to you or what you say in a certain way, it may be time to reassess how you communicate (and those goes for anyone). If you choose not to adjust your communication style, then don’t’ “go in” every time someone doesn’t like what you said. And if you continue to be offended by what someone has to say, then you may want to just keep it moving and focus your attention on those who you feel do value you. Seems like a waste of energy for the people on both sides to continue to engage especially if we sadly aren’t unable to engage in a productive way.

  • Adonis

    Enjoying the show

  • http://www.aworknprogress.com Diana

    This is so funny – over 200 comments on something that folks shouldn't care about, especially men folk. Heh.

    I think the 'it's the esteem of yourself b*tch' bit is foolery. No one comes out the womb with self esteem. That's cultivated from a variety of sources: mama n'em, friends, environment, how you're built as a human being – so to say someone should just be confident and keep it moving, especially women, is kind of over simplified. Which leads me to…

    This is a society of men choose and women get chosen. It's reflected in the culture and in these here blogs and in a convo I just had with a single dude w/ no lady at the moment who was talmbout when he gets married in a few years and has kids… Let a single woman say that and she will be thrown in the insane asylum. So yes when you do a post on "criteria" for women to get chose, then for good, bad or worse, some women will interject their own issues into said post. C'est la vie.

    Which leads me to finally – your posts remind me of that Cosby Show episode where Vanessa brings her fiance home and Cosby likens it to having your favorite meal served up on a garbage can, i.e., it's all in the presentation. And while I doubt you will ever change the platter on which you present – well then you really can't be surprised by the responses.
    My recent post Tuesday’s Thoughts: On Saying Thank You

  • http://www.WisdomIsMisery.com WisdomIsMisery

    Jesus, some of you weren't hugged enough as children – and appear not to be receiving an adequate amount of hugs as adults… Luckily, WIM is here for you – http://img-cache.cdn.gaiaonline.com/84697b6a38c4a… *opens arms*

  • RPrice

    I don’t comment too often on blogs but when I read the the first couple of paragraphs of yesterday’s aricle, I knew it would be trouble. I read what you wrote Dr. J and I’m still trying to figure out what was so HORRIBLE about stating the qualities that you would like in a woman. Maybe I need to re-read the article and insert my own biases to the article to get where everyone is coming with these issuses. Not saying that I don’t have issues of my own, but my skin color isn’t one of them. I mean if people really want to be up in arms about this subject, he didn’t list any disabled women, 30+ women, women who went to college, and the list goes on and on. How about since some of ya’ll are so critical of Dr. J’s writing, see if you can do better and write a guest post for SBM?

  • MercyPercy

    I can't lie and say I never been offended after finding out a crush of mine didn't like me. Everyone hopes to be admired by the person they like. I never wanted to give them the satisfaction of knowing I was disappointed though. LOL
    I guess it's really hard for a man to understand why women would linger on this though.
    Women will spend hours/days/weeks thinking about a man they're too afraid to approach themselves. If they spent that much time thinking about someone, it won't be easy for them to quickly forget that person.
    A lot of black women LOVE black men, so yes, if they feel they don't want them they're going to be hurt. Maybe I shouldn't be speaking for everyone but it hurts knowing you're not desirable. And before someone tries to come at me, NO, I was not saying anyone is undesirable. LOL The best thing to do is to not dwell forever but to deny I don't get hurt would imply I don't have any feelings. I'd be lying.

  • Young Heaux

    Dr. J you're trippin. This is a complex ass issue and to simplify and reduce it to what you have is disingenuous. Believe it or not, I would expect more intellectual digging than this from you.

  • Young Heaux

    In most discourse on colorism, and the preference to lighter skin, the blame does not fall all on black men. Do some black women perhaps expect for black men to be there in the fight against colorism? Sure. (Btw, I'm not saying your Amber Rose preference is colorism, just saying, that's where the conversation went.) The blame actually tends to fall on white society for making us hate ourselves. And dark skinned black men feel it too.

    I'm really not sure where your analysis comes from other than a insensitive knee jerk reaction to what you probably was an attack on your last post. But yeah, we have years of history, socialization, and mainstream media to back these "insecurities" up so it's not as easy as you're making it. And it's insensitive to say black women are whining. That was mad rude. You can love all the Amber Roses and Kim K's you want, but I think the least any black woman might expect from you as a black man in America is to be sensitive to the sh** we deal with.

  • Young Heaux

    what you probably thought* was

  • That's My Story

    As a light complexioned female, let me be the first to say that "we" are not always the epitome of what BM look for in a mate. We get more than our fair share of turn-downs and hurt feelings as well. I for one do not let that stop me. I have been someone's wife, gotten divorced, and am now someone's mate again. I am not turned off because my features, my intellect, my body shape, my eye color or my cup size is not what any random BM is checking for. I worry about pleasing the man in my life and I keep it moving. I am alright knowing I am not, nor will I ever be EVERY BLACK MAN'S Dream.
    It's nice to know that for every man that doesn't want me becasue of what he may consider a character flaw or a physical deal breaker, there is someone out there that does. Dr. J, no matter what anyone says, it's still YOUR list and you are entitled to YOUR opinion.

  • teekay

    Parallels drawn between the male and female experience in regard physical appearance do not hold much weight because we all know it just isn't the same for us. Aww you were teased for being light skinned? Did someone offer you darkening cream so you could fix that right up? Oh you were nappyheaded as a child – did your momma slap a perm in your head to rid you of that problem? No – right – well then I guess you aint have much choice but to accept it.

    The beauty industry makes 160 billion dollars a year worldwide. I am not really surprised though since I know many women who would not step outside the house without a full face of makeup. I personally don't have the time nor patience. We have this huge industry telling us day in and day out to not accept who we are – cover it up, straighten it out, push it up, pluck it off. The beauty industry is made for women, usually headed by men. We've got magazine with headlines telling us the next best 'beauty enhancement' that will have men swooning. Our insecurities are exploited on a consistent basis that I am certain is unlike anything men have had to endure in society. We want to be desirable to men, but when it seems like so many want something you can never be – it has to hurt. It has to be understood that in the black culture, namely in entertainment, women have greatly been objectified and beauty is even more so a commodity. Pulchritude is the sole defining factor of our price tag it seems. I know white guys who only date blondes – and so if some brunette wants to snag him she can simply change her hair color. However, when it seems that being light-skinned and exotic is the prevailing preference (and it would seem so if you listen to music or watch television) – a dark skinned woman doesn't have much of an option. Bleaching, maybe? Ugh i mean its gotta be infuriating growing up being told to change parts of us that isn't socially desirable – but this one nagging thing, this daggone overabundance of melanin just wont go away. I promise you if a white guy went and listed women he found attractive and they all happened to be asian – there would be white women in arms questioning his choices. White guys tend to like their women skinny – and surprise surprise – it is white women who suffer most from eating disorders.

  • Magg

    Why being teased for being light skinned is supposed to hurt less than being teased for being dark skinned?!
    I'm sorry i don't get it…

    • Southerngyrl*

      Okay, if even after this whole post and comments section, you do not know the answer to that, there is probably no hope.

      • MaggK

        Because anyway the media love them? Because supposedly black men prefer lightskinned?
        You right there is no hope for yall backwards mentality… SMH… BYE!

        • Southerngyrl*

          Please read the comment I made very early on for this post. But I mean, actually, the fact that I even have to explain that to you, says so much that you might just want to forget about it. There are a lot of books on colorism at your local library. Work it out.

          Backwards mentality? MMmkay. This coming from someone who doesn't understand why being teased for being darker is worse than being teased for being lightskinned. I shouldn't even have to explain that one. Le Sigh…

  • Adonis

    If this is a big issue for BW the way they make it out to be in the blog world, this is why y'all need to choose men who care about you & love you. Get some therapy, and get off that feminist drivel.

    Because when you make us your enemy, y'all all collectively suffer.

    It is time to repent

  • minnie

    I read articles form this site every now and then. I think it's really unproductive for women to comment on men's preferences. First, it it not black women's business. I truly believe that if black women take this approach this back and forth stuff could end. Black women don't make a man's preference about you. Resist any thought that suggest otherwise. Second, black men have a right for their preference REGARDLESS of their reasons. Whether it is politically correct, incorrect, sexist, non-sexist, werid, etc. This business of shaming them has to stop. If you are a black woman and you cannot stomach reading about a black man's preference do yourself a favor turn to another page.

    Here's a dream I have….someday in the near future a black man will state his preference in a woman and no black woman will comment. Any insecurities that she may have will be resolved. So there is no prejection. Any thought that his preference is about them or her is resisted. Any need to correct or point to what they believe is incorrect will cease.

  • Kopa

    Since I'm not black, I'm assuming I cannot be blamed for being insecure if I criticize the overwhelming majority of light-skinned black women portrayed in the media. Or can I?

    Women in magazine covers in India are as near white as an Indian can possibly be; women in China avoid the sun like the plague because they don't want a tan; light-skinned black women have a better shot at being movie stars. And you're trying to tell this is all down to preference? INDIVIDUAL preference?

    It's funny that I could find 10 light-skinned, famous black women who are considered beautiful, but can only think of 2 dark-skinned black women in that same category. How do your lists look like? And this annoys me, not because it affects me personally in any way, but because I don't really like the fact that skin colour plays a role in how attractive someone is.

  • Mason

    A beautiful woman is a beautiful woman PERIOD!!! It don't matter what race she is or the color of her skin. I will admit that this is an issue that has been going on for years. But let's be honest. Do most black men really care about a black woman's skin tone? None that I know. I've dated both light skin and dark skin women. And lets keep it real. Most of the time when you see a dark skin woman complaining about men not wanting her because of her skin color, it's a deflection to the fact that she is just attractively challenged. I'm not trying to be mean, but there are plenty of beautiful dark skin women out there that brothers would kill to be with. You think Kelly Rowland or Gabby Union sit around and complain about not being able to get a man because of their skin tone. NOPE. They may have to face those issues when it comes to getting jobs in Hollywood but that's a whole different topic. Just love the skin you in. There's someone for everyone.

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  • KnottyGirl17

    The Color Complex conversation, we all know it exists but ladies fear not, who cares what J's preferences are if you're not checking for him? Read the article for what it is. But also know that they are many well educated, conscious, confident, sexy, intelligent men who prefer a beautiful African American woman of any shade and any hair texture. Trust me ladies, if you're offended by J's preferences, you don't want a man who idolizes "those women", they can have him. What you should do is find a man that can appreciate you, because those who don't, don't deserve you.

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  • Jazz

    As a former high school teacher and mentor to young girls please know that these "insecurities" are not birthed as women but as children and they grow up with them. It's a constant reinforcement and I have heard many young black men discuss thier preferences and not surprisingly , it's pretty much the same old, same old.

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  • Alyssa

    when your father abandons you and your mother is calling you an ugly bitch, stupid hoe, and accuses you of being the worst every day of your life for years…..you would eventually start to believe that you are not good enough. and then you go out into the world and it confirms what your mother and father told you… that you are not good enough. and then you meet individuals who also confirm what your mother and father and the world thinks of you…. that you are not good enough. So, black women weren't born with low self esteem.. we inherited from other black women with low self esteem. and black men with low self esteem. and the world plays on our insecurities for money.takes advantage of us. tears us further and further apart and we give in to it everyday.

    Personally, I don't care what you prefer, because 9 times out of 10 you aren't what I prefer, but that's just what it is.. a preference. But this generation and may generations before us have inherited this pain and hurt and shame and low self esteem and self hate. You only know what you are taught and if "you ain't shit" is what you are taught on a daily basis… then you eventually start to believe you ain't shit.
    As far as the Katt Williams reference….. black comedians use the pain of black people to get a laugh. there is a lot of insensitivity to the hurt and struggle of our community, so I don't respect that comment that my self esteem is solely my responsibility. it puts all the blame on me and other women like me and says that it's my fault when all I did was get borned and because of my skin color I inherited a curse.

    It's nobody's fault but we still need to fix it before our children get here cause I'll be damned if my daughter comes home and tells me someone said she wasn't good enough because she is black.

    • Jarvis

      I feel you, you're right. Black young men are done similar and worse ways growing up. No one gives them any excuses b/c of screwed upbringings or prejudices faced thereafter in just about every social setting in the world.

  • Shawn

    Black women could give a damn what black men think of them and most period know this! Its the outside world making black women feel insecure most instances. Its black women's own fault when this applies. I've noticed when they get hit-n-ran by non black males or when different raced women embrace them, then they're all well. So do the math. If we (Black men) do not have power to make them feel better, how tf could we have power to make black woman insecure. Right. Impossible!