New NYC Teen Pregnancy Prevention Ads Got People Mad

  • Share on Tumblr

tp_poster_2

I always have mixed feelings about teen pregnancies. I’m not going to throw my foot all the way to the back of my mouth but I will speak on a few things as carefully as I can with respect to how I feel about the topic.

I believe that children should be given the best opportunity to succeed. That’s two fold; children should be able to live their lives free of adult responsibilities far too early and children should born into solid situations. I can’t say whether being born into a two-parent home is better than a single-parent home. Trust, I know some screwed up people that are that way because they grew up watching a dysfunctional relationship that should have never been.

I also believe that we are too nice to teens as it comes to pregnancy. In the Black community there’s this phenomenon of “[such and such] did it and they turned out fine, so I’ll be fine too.” It’s crippling at times because it allows people to make decisions based on the success of another person that isn’t guaranteed to them too. But like where are the people who will tell a teen, “Look teen pregnancy is NOT the move.” It seems like the youth have this image of, “16 and Pregnant” and don’t realize that’s really not what happens in real life. Anyway, I’m going to move on… I’ve provided enough to start a conversation with just those brief thoughts.

Anyway, New York City has a plan to attack Teen Pregnancy. They feel that by releasing controversial advertisements, it will deter teens from becoming pregnant. Of course, people are in a tissy about it. Now I can’t lie, most guys looked at these posters and straight up started chuckling. Keep it real, nothing they’re saying here is false, it’s just harsh. I figured I’d share them with you guys today and ask for your thoughts on the ads.

Cheers.

Dr. J

tp_poster_4

 

tp_poster_5

 

tp_poster_1

 

tp_poster_3

What do you guys think of the ads? Offensive or spot on? The larger question is, what can we do to prevent teen pregnancies? Provided that nobody here is one of those Mormons who lives on a farm and thinks women should be having babies at age 13.

  • Share on Tumblr

From Our Partners

  • Amicus

    eh, I think these ads are probably hurtful and stigmatizing to teen parents and their children. They're obviously indicating that children with teen parents are sad (miserable?) and almost destined to fail. I don't think it's OK to insinuate that the reason these kids are sad & unsuccessful is BECAUSE they had teen parents. It's not OK with me b/c I think the correlation is simply not true. IMO, their rate of failure probably has a LOT more to do with poverty than youth.

    Just to illustrate my point…

    Black men are MUCH more likely to go to jail than white men, but would it be OK to run a campaign indicating that black men are criminals? And warning women away from dating black men? No, people would riot if someone tried to run a campaign like that. Why? Because we recognize that the 'black men in jail' epidemic has a LOT more to do with prejudice & poverty than race.

    IMO, the ad sponsors should identify the REAL problem (poverty) and run a campaign against that.
    My recent post Are You OK With Your BF Frequenting Strip Clubs?

    • Dr. J

      I don't agree with that corollary one bit. Teen pregnancy can be prevented. There is nothing you can do to prevent being Black. And there are programs like that they publicize, it's called, Scared Straight. They used to show that on regular TV and all throughout school. I skipped school on that day because I wasn't trying to go to that shit like it was the Middle Passage.

      You think that Black men don't know by the age of 16 that 1 in 3 Black males are in prison.

      I don't know why you would draw a comparison to warning women to stay away from Black men from this either… the only way that would make sense is if the poster said, "Yo don't date a teen mother."

      • Amicus

        I *was* a little confusing. I'll try to clarify.

        The problem I have is that I see these ads as *stigmatizing* to teen parents & their offspring. The pictures & words imply that teen parents & their kids are a sad and unsuccessful. While I agree with the facts ie, that many teen parent situations end up bad. I DONT think that the ad properly identifies the real problem. IMO, the real problem is poverty.

        I know there are a lot of differences between 'teen parent's' and 'black men in jail'. The comparison I was trying to draw between these two social issues is that in both situation, the *real* problem is often overlooked.

        AND I don't think ads telling people statistics without clarifying the problem are helpful. Instead, they tend to stir up irrational fear. Here, for example – I think these ads will strengthen the prejudice against single/young parent homes (which aren't inherently bad). I would like the ad more if it used the unfortunate situation teen parents find themselves in to strengthen the prejudice against the growing wealth disparity in our country (which IS inherently bad)

        hope that helps.
        My recent post Are You OK With Your BF Frequenting Strip Clubs?

        • Larry

          " IMO, the real problem is poverty. "

          I'm not quite sure, but I believe poverty, or more specifically continuing to be in and not getting out of poverty, is suggested to be a causal effect of having a child young without a solid financial foundation.

          I guess in other words maybe the ad is suggesting that if one makes it through their teenage years without having to provide for another human being outside of themselves then they have a greater probablility of becoming more "successful"…however you want to define that.

          So in short, does poverty aide in hurting teenager parents…yes. Does not having children early give one a better chance of escaping poverty? I would say it doesn't necessarily hurt.

        • J. Crawford

          I'm actually with Dr. J in the respect that Abstinence-only education is doing Little to Nothing to deter Teen and Premarital Sex for the Most, but there are Some Kids/Teens and Adults that DO pay attention and are helped by it, the same way Sex Ed may seem like a joke in Today's climate but has prevented way more STD/HIV/Teen Pregnancies than if it never existed.

          The Youth Today are deeply Flawed and a Good Portion make no qualms about Knowing what they are doing and have No Fear of the Consequences. Better Shame to Teen Criminals of Small Crimes than Actual Records and Jail/Prison stints and these Ads are the Next Best Way to try to get to the Youth these days. Don't want to be Clowned?? Don't MAKE Dumb/Stupid Decisions, Period

  • http://www.singleblackmale.org/author/wisdomismisery/ WisdomIsMisery

    I pride myself in not being “that guy” that finds unattended consequences in areas not looking to have consequences not intended BUT I’d be lying to y’all if I wasn’t side eying the black child in that first poster with the corresponding “honestly mom…chances are he won’t stay with you” quote.

    I’m feeling some type of way…

    - sent from iPhone

    • Naija

      Ditto.

    • mskim

      Aren't most teen parents single mothers?

    • http://www.OpinionatedMale.com Mr SoBo

      I cosign this.

      I'm not suggesting it was a deliberate swipe, but I can't say that it wasn't either. But what are they suggesting if nothing at all? Or perhaps those of us who are side eyeing this are being hypersensitive? Who knows. But given the media's history, I say the side eye is justified and reasonable.
      My recent post The Pope, Commitment & The Moral Decline of A Nation

    • J. Crawford

      What about the Dad one??? That's universal if you ask me; there are more 2520 Single Mothers than Black ones, and more White Men on CS than Black men, but nonetheless both that and the "honestly mom…chances are he won't stay with you" quote are the same for Every Race- it just so happened to be with a Black Child and for reasons We in the Black Community speak of all hte time in salons, barber shops, classes, bbqs, etc. We care too much about "airing out Dirty Laundry" than Actually Solving the Problems or at least coming up with Better Solutions than the ones we already ahve that are obviously Failing…..

  • IAAJ

    As a health educator who teaches kids about sex, prevention of pregnancy and STIs… I can tell you shaming is a tactic that does not work. The statistics are true. 8 of 10 teen fathers do not marry the mother of their children, and children born unto teen parents are more likely to live in poverty. Teen pregnancy is also one of the main reasons why teens (number 1 reason for teen girls) drop out of school.

    I know the facts, I don't deny them, I get it.

    However, I don't believe these ads to be productive. No where on the ads does it advocate how NOT to become a teen parent by either abstaining from sex or by using latex (or polyurethane condoms). Instead it gives you a number to text… That text brings you to a "game" and based on how you reply to their messages, the responses can just be downright rude. (check this out: http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2013/03/05/nyc-… )

    But my biggest problem is the shaming. Sure, some kids will find this message so terrifying that they do not get pregnant. But I am afraid that for many, this message will fall on deaf ears and they will turn an eye to it because they feel like they're being talked down to. My students in particular… I can guarantee they would find these ads to be crazy and would be offended. And when your students become offended/feel disrespected, they turn off their ears and stop listening to you.

    Again, as someone who speaks to kids EVERY day and believes in comprehensive sexual health education, telling students not to do something just doesn't work. They need medically accurate about abstinence and contraceptives. But above that, they need to feel like they are in a safe space to ask questions and learn about a very taboo subject matter, much of with many of them can't talk to their parents about. They need more people who are willing to talk to them and not at them, when it comes to matters of their sexuality.

    ::ends rant/essay::
    My recent post Hair Chronicles: Weird Ish that Naturals Do

    • Dr. J

      I think that people always want their advice like it's Oprah delivering it. Sometimes you have to have Dr. Phil. I think that's the problem, people want soft landings for real advice. Nah… you should tell them straight up, look man you're most likely going to be up the creek without a paddle if you have a baby as a teen. Keep your hat on when you go inside.

      • IAAJ

        I can agree with you to an extent, some people need thing to be told to them straight no chaser. I just know my many of my students wouldn't respond well to these ads. We had some of these very same statistics in our promotional materials for our focus group and they hated it. They dismissed it. Again, for some this ad will work for some, for others it won't. I guess I'm trying to make sure I (personally in my work) reach those who won't get this ad.

        Also, you give sound advice at the end, "Keep your hat on when you go inside." (iGiggled btw) If this ad said the same, or gave kids a way to learn more on how NOT to get pregnant, I'd be a little bit more on board.
        My recent post Hair Chronicles: Weird Ish that Naturals Do

        • J. Crawford

          Did they hate it because they were Offended or were they Apathetic to it??? There's a saying that goes like "Anybody who Takes Offense is probably Who NEEDS to Hear it or See it, as He/She/They are the Topic of it in the First Place"…

          If the ads Don't Apply then there should be No Harm, No Foul, IMHO

        • IAAJ

          It could have been a mixture of both offense and dismissal… I think teenagers, who's brains are not fully developed (and since adolescence is a time of questioning, angst, etc- for many teens, not all), I find that when someone offends them (again, many of my students) or they feel they've been disrespected, they tune out anything you try to tell them.

          I think that's what happened in our focus groups… That and they didn't believe the stats. Many had moms who had them in THEIR teens and nobody wants someone disrespecting their mama. In their minds, their mom being a teen parent isn't the reason they live in poverty… It's because they live in the hoods of Irvington, Newark or Paterson and everyone is living the way they live.

          So I think some outright dismissed because they may have thought, oh that stat is dumb… And others were offended and didn't like the message and couldn't accept it was true… Either way, we removed it to other statistics and they were able to comprehend and get into our program. (yay for us!)
          My recent post Hair Chronicles: Weird Ish that Naturals Do

    • Kinectic

      I agree with you, but by now, the majority of teens are being taught straight from the 6th grade regarding the dangers of unprotected sex. You would be surprised to know that many children before the age of 10, know what a condom is. Children are not stupid, especially teens. They know how to abstain from sex and why they should, but because of naivete and natural inclined rebelliousness, they won't. That's the real danger behind it.

  • InsomniaPoet

    This reminds me of the obese children ads in Atlanta. People can't really handle the truth so of course these ad's make some feel uncomfortable. But they all are true. Hopefully it will be a wake up call for a couple of young girls. Hell is it any different from the cigarette ads w/ the lady missing fingers or breathing through the hole in her neck? Scare tactics sometimes work.

    • Amicus

      OMG, do not get me started on that ridiculous & mean campaign here in Atlanta.

      It's hard to be a little girl when you're not little? are you kidding me? Awful!
      My recent post Are You OK With Your BF Frequenting Strip Clubs?

      • InsomniaPoet

        Yea first time I saw one of those posters at the MARTA station I was in shock.

  • Adonis

    I am going to post what I posted on clutch in a link to this issue. Cause I will give your readership a choice whether or not to real my “vitriol” take.

    To add to the point, I am not sure if these ads are effective. Because the problem is layered & multi-faced. Economics, culture, media manipulation, incentives to get prego, etc.

    My problem is, except on the Internet. Single mothers like Jews, are a very protected group. You can’t make any criticism of them, at all. And that perpetuates the problem.

    But in my world, single mother need to be food for everyone, so I refuse to defend them. They need all the criticism the world is willing to give them.

    • GirlSixx

      Wait, there are Jewish Single Mothers??? #confuzzled

      Damn.. I learn something new everyday.

      Okay… Carryon..

      • GirlSixx

        Nevamind, Scratch That!!!!

        My comprehension skills are at zero today.

        Oops!!!

        • Adonis

          Love you @GirlSixx

  • Uncle Hugh, BP

    There feelings = Their feelings. Gotta keep the grammar nazis happy.

    • http://twitter.com/Blu_wire11 @Blu_wire11

      Thank you.

    • Smilez_920

      +1. No one is bashing single mothers. People seem to forget that most single mothers didn’t ask nor strived to be single mothers. I’m sure if they could have had the emotional, financial and physical help of the child’s father being around (even if their not in a relationship) they would have taken it in a heartbeat.

      • InsomniaPoet

        ehhh I have to disagree…I think many single mothers totally ASKED and STROVE to be in the situations they are in which is the primary reason I can't really be a big Baby Mama Advocate. I think many women thought it wouldn't be so hard, or they could force help/support from the fathers etc. etc. prior to having the kid. Then once they had them realized raising a kid (even w/ a supportive co-parent) is hard as all get out. AND THEN expect all of society to give them so much credit for doing something which is in fact difficult but that they themselves did in fact CHOOSE to do. But I guess that's a different rant for a different day.

        • Smilez_920

          Well part of the issues is that some of us raise/ our community promotes this idea that fatherhood is optional once the baby is here, when it needs to be preached and practiced that a man takes care of his responsibilities.

          When I say “asked to be a single mother” most women don’t sit and dream about struggling with a child by themselves. The ideal would be to have help but the reality is that option is not available. (This doesn’t include widows, same sex parents, or older financially and educational advance women who want children but not a husband or haven’t found someone to have kids with, so they single adopt)

        • SMilez_920

          Even with the whole baby mama thing I don’t think people really become baby momma’s so they can hopefully be single mothers. Some people don’t think before they act and end up making poor decisions with the wrong people. I’m just saying that sometimes when we have the single mother convo people get so up in arms, when they forget that a lot of women (probably even them) prior to being a single mother probably thought they would be with their child’s father or that the child’s father would be in the child’s life. (I’m not referring to men and women in healthy co-parenting situations; I’m taking about situation where the father is not there)

        • InsomniaPoet

          I hear you Smilez. I just think a big part of the problem is society acting like single mothers are the victims when in fact they are far from victims (most of the time). Once a woman gets pregnant she is solely responsible for having (or not having) the child. I think we have these issues b/c society sends conflicting messages. Relations are glamorized, abortion & adoption are taboo, dead beat dads are demonized and single mothers are worshiped as being these selfless pillars of society single-handedly raising the next generation. Everyone is quick to ask what kind of man would have a child he doesn't take care of while no one stops to ask what kind of woman brings a child she KNOWS the father doesn't want AND she can't afford to raise on her own into this world. So maybe these ads bring some of the ugly truth of why out of wedlock children hasn't been the best idea (EVER) ESPECIALLY when you are still a child yourself.

        • Adonis

          @InsomniaPoet

          Yes!!!

        • MaggK

          "I think many single mothers totally ASKED and STROVE to be in the situations they are"

          EUH… no…i read all what you wrote, and i can see where you are coming from, but i beg to differ… All the single mothers aren't stupid dumb baby mama who got pregnant just for the hell of it!!! A lot of single mothers are divorced, in a lot of cases the biological father is actually GONE (is it the new trend to say i got trapped i didn't want that child?)… Whatever the reason is, it is hard to raise a child alone; that's why society gives credit to single parent (not only mother)!!!
          Now, yes, these women choosed to keep the child, and you totally right they need to deal with the decision… But are we promoting abortion now, is this a better a solution?!

          That's my problem with these ads, they are not preventing anything, i feel like they are just exposing the teens who already have kids! Can we tell these young people how NOT to get pregnant?

        • http://www.OpinionatedMale.com Mr SoBo

          How does one expose something that is already exposed?

          Besides, society does not give credit to single parents. Society gives credit to single mothers, and in most cases undeservingly so. Although it is true that it is EXTREMELY difficult to raise a child on one's own, society is always quick to connect single mom with victimhood. Why are they automatically and unquestionably given the victim card? Single fathers are not given the same card despite enduring the same hardships (regardless of how rare this circumstance is). There is a prevailing image of this struggling single mom that gives life to this ridiculous victimhood assignment.

          Important to note, people don't go from knight in shining armor to deadbeat at the result of pregnancy test. In other words, it was either evident or there were signs that this person probably was not the one to let blast off without a shield. Ergo, some would ask, why feel sorry for them if it was likely she knew what kind of guy she was dealing with? But what's done is done, and the only thing left to do is scare the hell out of those who have yet to go down that path.

          There are many deadbeat men out there shunning their responsibilities, there are also many men out there who are denied their parental duties based on this ridiculous notion that mothers are more competent to raise children. As much as society has changed over the years at the hands of feminism, et al regarding the mission to equate the sexes, etc,… somehow that notion still remains prevalent. Especially within the legal system. Hmmn.. I wonder why?

          This bleeds right into the reasons why society perpetuates this pillar of community ideology and gives an abundance of unjust credit to single mothers. *Generally speaking of course because there are plenty of single mothers who are indeed champions.

          Mr. SoBo
          OpinionatedMale.com

          My recent post The Pope, Commitment & The Moral Decline of A Nation

        • J. Crawford

          THANK YOU!!!!

          Yes, there are Deadbeat Dads and for Decades there have been programs and tacticts to Shame and Help ,but what about the Other Coin of Foul, Deliquent, and Conniving Mothers??? Hell, other Jews don't like the way Israel treats the Palestinians, so WHY should Single Mothers be protect like some Endangered Species???

          I'm a SIngle Father, Regardless if I have Custody or Not, I PAY Child Support and have done so Long Before I even Confirmed I was a Father (I figured I got my Daughter's Mother pregnant, but as she as a Female Player she MADE her Choices and TOOK her chances and SHE Lucked Out). We Responsible Me are out here Trying and Doing the Right & Adult Thing to do, WITHOUT the Pats on the Back and Praise bestowed on Women. It's about Damn Time there are ads that are the equivalent to the Millions of Ads geared toward Deadbeat Dads, Unsure Fathers, and Men in General.

          PLEASE, Tell me I'm lying or Irrational and Disprove my Points, Anyone

        • Southerngyrl_

          She "lucked out"? That is a loaded statement. There are deadbeat Moms. I actually know a few, but lets not act like the whole save the single mom mantra doesn't come from a true place. It came from a place where a lot of women were (and still are) raising children by themselves without help from the fathers. I don't blame the men for all of it, because these women had a choice as well, but lets not act like the whole thing is some conspiracy.

          Lets be all the way real here. Paying child support is not the same as having physical custody. Kudos if you have joint custody though, but from your statement, I'd say not. I could pay some money a month, lets say $700. How much do you think that covers of your child's total expenses that month? This includes the electricity, water and other utilities that a child uses while living in a house/apartment.

          Also, not sure if I understand the Jewish analogy, and yes you are irrational. I don't know about the lying thing though, because it is probably your truth.

        • CheZ Louie

          Ummmm, I didnt know that electricity, water and other utilities are used by children from infancy. Since when? I thought I was paying for the welfare of my child, not rent. Im sorry but if thats the case, if the mother of my child is not fit financially to take care of our kid, then Im taking it. Full custody… The mother should be able to pay rent and maintain a shelter. I will gladly pay for everything else, clothes, food, school, prom, college, dance classes, music classes whatever my kid needs. But no way, for no reason, should I be paying rent, what? Then Im paying for you to maintain yourself….explain this. I have never been in this situation. I didnt know thats what child support is for…..

        • Southerngyrl_

          If you have an extra person in your house it uses utilities. The fact that I even have to explain is crazy. Electricity or gas warms the bottles. Electricity used for the late night feedings. I can go on and on. Does the welfare of your child not include heat, air, electricity, etc? That costs. Hmm, what about those daycare costs? Medicine for the child. Is he or she on your insurance or hers?

          I put $700 as an estimate, but trust, that is not what most regular guys are paying for one child. But dude, don't believe me, if you think can do better I say go for it. Then, maybe you will see the actual costs to raising a child and it ain't all about food and diapers either.

        • SMilez_920

          @Chez so I guess your child should live in the cold with no heat and no roof over their head. Child support is more than food and some clothes its diapers, formula, and a place for your child to lay their head at night. You throw in for those things because your child lives in that house. Those things are not luxuries there need for the child. No different than if your child lived with you.

          Plus who insurance is the child most likely on….

        • J. Crawford

          SNAP (formerly known as Food Stamps) came from a Good Place, too. Many still Need them, BUT how many times and people you know Selling tme for Cash? Bartering Food Stamps is illegal and Not what they are made for, which gives All Recipients a Bad Rep.

          I pay my bills even When my Child isn't Living with me, and as a Young Single Father I Myself "live within my Means"; when my parents WERE Together they Still weren't able to or did pay for Extracirricular Activites, as they USED to be Privivleges, not a Right or Necessity. I feel all of the nuances that WERE things Kids USED to Have to Earn, Myself Included, have been turned into things that Kids "need" now. This adds to the whole Entitlement epidemic and not recognized in aspects of CS, Visitation, Custody, etc. My paying CS or Not Should Not be some sort of Exchange for Spending Time with my Own Child, and I have No Idea WHERE or WHEN that became some sort of requirement. Single Mothers & Fathers that are CS Takers CAN'T have it Both Ways when dealing with CS Payers, again IMHO

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          J. Crawford, CheZ Louie, I hope you two are prepared to get crucified…

        • Southerngyrl_

          LOL.

          This is stupid hilarious to me.

          "My paying CS or Not Should Not be some sort of Exchange for Spending Time with my Own Child, and I have No Idea WHERE or WHEN that became some sort of requirement."

          Yep, that is deadbeat dad talk right there. I am not saying you are, but just to let you know, that is what that sounds like. I hate to just get right to it, but yeah. You should support your children. If the situation were the other way around, I would tell that to your child's mother too. The money you pay is not nearly even close to what the actual costs are to raise your child (monthly basis). I am not saying it is right for someone (man or woman) to withhold their child from seeing a deadbeat parent, but I understand the reason.

          I will suggest the option that I told Chez Louie above. Go fight for full custody or joint custody. Ask that the agreement be that you all will share expenses and no child support will be paid. There are agreements just like this. You or her mom can be the custodial parent, but that way there are no child support payments to get in the way.

          Lets see if your precious child support payments equal that of raising a child (with them physically in your home half the time).

        • SMilez_920

          @SOuthern girl lol I smh at that comment.
          Let’s be honest, if you’re the type of dad that has never offered any type of financial support for your child, you probably aren’t dying nor going out of your way to spend time with them. Now if the issue is you’ve lost your job or your not able to give as much but you still give, that’s different.

          I tell men all the time you can go to the court house and set up an agreement just like the mother can. If anything they would probably give the father more credit if he came to court and set up or petitioned for a custody and financial arrangement other than the usually mother coming in asking the court to set in. Baby cost more than food and clothes. I wonder how many dads crying about child support have the kids on their insurance that comes out of mommy’s pay check every month. Why shouldn’t daddy kick in for the heat and utilities used for his child. No ones asking you to pay the rent but some of your child support money goes towards keep a roof over the babies head.

        • Southerngyrl_

          You see right? I cannot with this comment. But yes, you are so right, I wouldn't ever assume that the type of person you described would want to spend that much time with their child anyway.

          But, I would respect any guy who petitioned for custody (full or joint). There are quite a few men these days who are making sure they have a say in the custody arrangement, and not just settling for status quo. If you are okay with having your child every other weekend or something like that, then don't complain about the arrangement. If you aren't satisfied, do something about it.

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          I don't have a strong opinion of this because the pendulum swings both ways. A lot of dudes suck, and I mean REALLY, REALLY suck. But some women act as if they won the lottery, and the courts are not partial at all to men. Making arrangements means nothing in many courts; unless the woman is on drugs or literally insane, they are likely siding with whatever mom wants to do.

          And the amount they charge for child support is up for debate too. A man's child should be financially supported by dad, without question, but remember mom is getting that benefit too. So to say the utilities cost X and rent is Y, so the man needs to pay (X+Y) is a bit disingenuous, because mom is getting FREE utilities and rent! Where's her financial contribution? If her watching the child weekdays is the justification, then she should still be paying 2/7ths of the costs.

        • J. Crawford

          I'm glad I'm not the only one that has thought this

        • Southerngyrl_

          I actually think the courts have made strides in the last 15 years to rely less on the mom only idea. You said making arrangements mean nothing in many courts. That statement lets me know you're going off of a 1980s/90s mindset. This is not the case anymore. If you go yourself, with a lawyer or a mediator, and not wait to be forced (non-payment), there isn't a reason why they shouldn't listen.

          Love your formula, but nowhere did I mention what formula was used or how it is used. It generally goes by how much the man makes, period. Also, the idea that somehow you total up the expenses and rent (where did that come from) and that is how you come up with his payment, crazy and untrue. But lets be real, this ain't alimony. The money given to the mother can go to many different avenues. I am not going down that line of discussion again. But hey, check for yourself http://www.state.sc.us/dss/csed/calculator.htm

          I think maybe if men stopped holding this antiquated view and maybe tried for custody more, there would be less issues, but I noticed my advice wasn't even acknowledged. I wonder why? It is a perfect solution to the problem, but somehow I think he maybe okay with where he is…

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          My comments weren't necessarily directly at you, but in general. But those views aren't antiquated at all.

          I have an infant daughter with my soon-to-be fiancee. We went together to court. We are on very good terms, and at the time, she lost her job a few months before my daughter was born. We listed our expenses and salaries (obviously hers was none). My daughter was already on my insurance. She told them we were on very good terms, and that I've been single-handedly taking care of all the expenses for raising her.

          Didn't matter. They wanted money. Without getting too much into my personal business, I'll just say I was paying more for child support than I was paying for my mortgage. Granted, I didn't have a lawyer, but she was there saying we had no issues. They didn't care.

          This is the reality. All these guys aren't lying to you.

          PS: It never cost me $700 in any month to get stuff from my daughter. That's why I said the numbers they often come up with are questionable.

        • Southerngyrl_

          I think you all are taking the figure I came up with, $700, and applying it to what you think it should go to, food, diapers, formula, clothes but like I said earlier, that isn't all there is to it.

          And yes, I do recommend a lawyer or mediator (most likely lawyer) for just these reasons.

          Check out the FAQs on this site.
          https://childsupport.state.co.us/siteuser/do/vfs/

          Note this section:

          "Question: Are my other bills such as rent and car payment taken into consideration when computing the amount of support?
          Answer: Expenses of the parents such as car payments, not related to the support of the children, are not considered. The guidelines do consider the costs of housing, food, utilities, clothing and other basic expenses for the children.

          This is for Colorado, but you should be able to find it for your own state as well.

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          I appreciate the link, but perhaps this part of my previous comment bears repeating:

          "I have an infant daughter…"

          Therefore, I have a decent and accurate metric for determining how much raising a child costs: my personal checking account. Especially given that her mom was unemployed for most of her young life. It doesn't cost nearly as much as they were trying to take.

          Again, I don't have a strong stance here, because I know one guy that was trying to get by on giving the mother $150/month. He needs his head slammed in a car door. But clearly the family courts are either heavily favoring the mother, or they need help in basic arithmetic.

        • Southerngyrl_

          Ok, I wrote out a whole long response, but you know what, I am going to keep it short.

          You have a decent metric for raising your kid, but it is just that, for your kid and your situation. Like I've said before, it does take into account utilities and housing among other things. Also, you and your child's mother are together, which makes your situation different.

          Jcrawford and chez louie specifically shouted me down about what I said about the utilities and housing. The link proves I was right. These things are taken into account when coming up with payments. I am not saying it is catch all, but your account of it is personal to you. I don't have any kids so I don't have a dog in this fight, but this generalization about the overpaid single mom pisses me off.

          I know more of them getting that $150/a month then that $700. If you make more money, you will pay more money, period. If you want specifics on their "basic arithmetic" then you should inquire about it and talk to a lawyer to get it changed.

        • J. Crawford

          What I mean by the "selected phrase" you Deliberately Took OUT OF CONTEXT, is that REAL, Common-Sense ADULTS do not Need to rely on the Courts and Government to have Mandatory what REAL, Common-Sene ADULTS can Discuss and Solve THEMSELVES. Again, in My Case, I was Being Involved Before my Child was Born, but as my Child's Mother is a Human Being, I couldn't FORCE her to get an Early DNA Test; I couldn't Stalk her with Phone Calls/Emails/Texts DURING her Pregnancy, and the way I found out I was a Father was because She Sought ME Out after testing 3 Guys BEFORE Me (her Sugar Daddy at the time [according to her Own Mother, my Child's Grandmother] and two Exes), so I own MY Part of the Situation, not Mines & Hers.

        • J. Crawford

          I can see if Filing for Child Support is a Last Resort, but When it's the FIRST & ONLY Action of Choice is where I have a Problem. People love to talk about Government Intrusion as far as Reproductive Rights, the 2nd Amendment Right to Bear Arms, Mental Health, etc, yet they are MORE THAN EXCITED to go to the Court House in This Scenario….. Miss Me with all of that. People can be Objective on things, Even in the topic of Child Support, and Emotions do Nothing to Disprove Fact(s)

        • Smilez_920

          Umm lots of women try the " No court house apporach" they give fathers the chance to provide without the hand of the law guiding them, then the man does'nt do what is need, so she goes to the court. If I was in the situation with someone and we have a child I wont run to court first, I'll give you a chance to come to an agreement with me.

          Remember babies need

          Child Care
          Food
          Clothes
          Insurance

          At the least

          Choose two and I'll choose two. Pay when those bills are due and we will be A OK .

        • Southerngyrl_

          Here's the deal, I think most situations actually don't start out like that. I think a good bit of them start out with the parents avoiding the courts (bad idea IMO), but later issues arise because they can't agree on how much money should be given, how frequently, and if he should even write the check directly to her. This is what usually causes people to take to the courts. In a perfect world maybe your idea would hold true.

          I think either way you slice it, a lawyer or a mediator should be involved. There needs to be a legal document, period. You may not need to do the formal child support court roundabout, but definitely something legal should be drawn up.

        • J. Crawford

          So then Getting a Prenup is the same as Filing for CS, Right? Both are Guaranteeing ONE SIDE'S Interests to be met, are they not; The CS Payee's exchange is Spending Time with their Child, and the Person who Agrees to a Prenup is Guaranteed the Things and Value "according to the Document, mediated by Lawyers and a Judge's Approval"

        • Southerngyrl_

          Actually a prenuptial agreement can guarantee BOTH sides interests are met. I am not sure where you are getting that idea from. If you have a good lawyer (hint) you can negotiate some things.

          But yeah, your idea on child support is pretty warped and definitely tainted by your own situation. If you don't like to pay it, go get joint custody and the agreement I told you about earlier. OR try for full physical custody and she can pay you child support.

        • Southerngyrl_

          Yeah, but real common sense adults realize that nothing is perfect. I think most start off with the best of intentions but it may not end up that way. I don't know men who are paying through the court system and men who are not, lets just say that the ones i know who aren't going through the courts routinely get their ass handed to them.

          The courts aren't only about taking money. It also provides a record. If she starts claiming certain things then you can point to the records to disprove her claims. It also deals with situation when one of you has a life changing event. Say she wants to move across the country with your child, a plan may prevent that from happening.

          I know there is a stigma attached to court ordered arrangements but sometimes it is beneficial. Even with arrangements things can get crazy. For every guy I know who has had a child with a woman he is not in a relationship with, I have always suggested getting a lawyer and making sure you have a suitable arrangement. They don't want that stigma, so they choose uncertainty.

          You see how halle tried to take her daughter out of the country? That is what I am talking about right there.

        • Smilez_920

          I agree that fathers should still be allowed to see their children even whne they miss payments. But money still is a part of the equation. Of course I would'nt tell my childs father he can't spend time with his son or daughter because he's not paying, but BELIEVE me he will be in court figuring out a way to get some financial help. Let's be honest if you've never given any financial support for your child , more than likely you are'nt going out of your way to spend time with them. Now if your just having a hard time financially or if your baby mother wants you to give up more money for her sake and not the child that's different.

          (BABIES ARE NOT FREEEEEEEEEEEEE, you need to cough up some money ….. this is why teens don't need babies. Also just like women need to pick better men to father their children. Men need to be careful about who they lay with. )

        • Southerngyrl_

          Man, babies COST. IT is crazy how much they cost. Do they know how much formula costs?

        • J. Crawford

          Not trying to be sarcastic towards you and Smilez, but here's a question that I would like to have you two's Honest Opinion:

          If/When a Single Parent who is the Custodial Parent is Also LIVING with their S/O (which means there are TWO Incomes in the Household rather than Just ONE), does all of what you ladies speak of as far as Paying Utilities, Gas for His/Her Car, "Extracirricular" Activities, etc Still Apply?? Is it or Would it be My Fault or Problem then since only I Live in my Own Household and Don't Live with Anybody???

        • Southerngyrl_

          It is your responsibility. It is your child. It isn't his child. He or she may even have their own child in the mix. What you never want to do is assume that because she has a husband now, this just goes away. If you married a girl with a child, would you feel responsible for picking up the slack where her child's father left off? If he was a deadbeat, you would probably have to, but if you had the choice, would you want to?

        • J. Crawford

          I would give my my Wife/girlfriend the Side-Eye; I/We are in charge of the Household and what's between Her and her Child's Father is Between THEM. I wouldn't Need Him to Contribute to OUR Home, he just Needs to Do For HIS Child(ren).

          It's like the Integrity and Honor among and between Adults Died Decades Ago and in its place is the Entitlement and Playing the Dozens that have attributed to the Broken Homes and Dysfunctional Familes that exist today. Without saying Too Much about my Own Situation I can say with experience there's flaws on Both Custodial/CS Receivers and Non-Custodial/CS Payers

        • Southerngyrl_

          Yeah dude, if only it were as easy as you seem to think. Actually, it was never that easy. Talk to some folks who dealt with this in the 70s and 80s. This supposed "honor and integrity among adults" basically started around that time.

          Last word of advice, pay your child support and stop thinking everything is a conspiracy. Some stuff just is, like child support. If you have a problem with it all, go get custody, petition the courts.

        • SMilez_920

          A new man in my life does'nt mean you get to drop the responsibilities in our childs life. We were just saying that if you pay 700 dolars in CS it's goign to mor ethan just clothes and food for the child, there are other things a child needs.

          In most cases the woman can handle rent and lights , but what happens when you add child care and insurance and other things on to that

        • Southerngyrl_

          I think we are speaking to a brick wall here. He has his own warped views and it will be between him and his kid to figure the foolishness out later.

        • J. Crawford

          How are the points I raised "warped views"?? Are you two Seriously sitting/standing/laying there and stating that My Situation is a Unicorn? I know of Peers, Friends and other Relatives on the Recieving End and Offenders of what I speak of. IDK where you live so maybe it's a regional or state-thing, but to believe that there's No Problems with the Child Court System is very naive and disengenous.

        • InsomniaPoet

          THIS is the whole reason I STOPPED doing family law….smdh.

        • J. Crawford

          Then Maybe the CS should go towards the Child Care and Insurance, not Utilities and Rent, which would mean that CS payers would have a Say on the Custodial Parent's Household…… Unless All Parties are discussing this with a mediator and Judge and get HOW and WHERE the CS goes to in Ink, the Current issues will still persist.

        • J. Crawford

          That's what I said upthred:

          "I wouldn't Need Him to Contribute to OUR Home (which means Everything and Everyone IN it), he just Needs to Do For HIS Child(ren)."

        • Southerngyrl_

          LOL. The fact you still don't think that doing for "HIS" children isn't just food and clothes still tickles me. Unless you are going to keep serious receipts and records like an accountant, this will not work. But hey, brick wall, I get it.

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          I believe what J. Crawford was trying to say is this. For example:

          Water bill before child: $130/month
          Water bill after child: $140/month

          The CS courts and the mother will say the man should pay $140/month for care of the child, because that's what it costs. But she still had to pay $130/month even if the child was never born! So support isn't $140/month, it is $10/month. His point about mom's new boyfriend is the child father is now paying utilities for his child, his ex, and her new boytoy.

          The CS courts do not recalculate to factor in what the additional person is using. How can one honestly argue that a baby is using so many extra BTUs for heating, kilowatt-hours for electricity and gallons of water, but a grown man that is now living in the house isn't using anything?

        • JazMaTazz

          "Water bill before child: $130/month
          Water bill after child: $140/month"
          So the fact that the water bill only increased $10 means that they only used $10 worth of water? Naw dude, THAT's Bad Math.
          The water that's used extra may just be the part that's not being shared with the household, i.e. The child's separate bath. There's still the cost of water that's used shared like when washing dishes, or putting in loads of laundry, or etc.
          The same can be said for things like lights and gas, just because the bills don't double doesn't mean that they aren't "using" those utilities, they may just be sharing the benefits of the usage. While I do not think you should be responsible for the whole of the bill, only accounting for the excess isn't likely going to account for the child's needs either, I think the best accounting is probably around 30% of the overall rent and bills…

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          JazMaTazz: "So the fact that the water bill only increased $10 means that they only used $10 worth of water? Naw dude, THAT's Bad Math."

          Wow. I almost can't believe you sat there and typed that with all seriousness. Even Southerngyrl_, as firm as her position is on the matter, was careful to walk around what you leaped in and wrote with great alacrity.

          You are honestly saying that when a woman has a child, she should be paying LESS in utilities. That's insane. "Shared usage" doesn't mean anything because it was going to get used anyway. If she was going to turn the bedroom light on and use some number of kilowatt-hours of electricity regardless, the fact that a child is also in the room now shouldn't mean, "hey, now I can charge some of this usage to the father!" Charging the extra amount for another load of clothes in the dryer to the father? Sure. Splitting the dollars per kilowatt-hours for the mother watching Scandal or using the computer to check her Twitter account? Absolutely not.

          "only accounting for the excess isn't likely going to account for the child's needs either"

          By literal definition, the excess IS the child's needs!

          "I think the best accounting is probably around 30% of the overall rent and bills…"

          30%?!? LOL, now THAT is bad math!

        • InsomniaPoet

          i think that was kinda the point of the original post…babies cost! so having one simply because you got knocked up might not be the brightest idea especially for people who lack sufficient education to get a well-paying job. Sounds like you agree with the ads that this post was addressing in the first place… ;)

        • Southerngyrl_

          I see what the ads were supposed to do, but I just don't think it will be effective at all.

          I am pro-choice, so I feel like they should make the right choices for themselves.

        • MaggK

          Like i said, i dont talk about the dumb baby mamas and i think you're talking about them… i talk about the ones you called champions… Let's not act like there are more dumbs baby mamas than champions… Like Southerngyrl_ said this is not a conspiracy.
          And i just want to add that plenty of single mothers don't even bring the biological father to court for child support…

          Society gives credit to single father too, it's just that it doesn't happen a lot to see the father keeping the children… If there were more cases, the credit given would be more obvious!!!

        • InsomniaPoet

          Not "supporting" abortion. In the ideal world NO ONE would get pregnant unless/until everything was perfect. Everyone would have access to birth control and USE it. BUT in reality – should a woman feel that abortion and/or adoption are viable options – yes. I think the current state of things makes a woman feel justified in becoming a struggling single mother vs. having an abortion or giving up the baby for adoption. And in all fairness I never said ALL about anyone or anything. I don't think these ads are at all geared towards divorced or widowed women. Also, to be fair I never said raising a child alone was easy.

  • Smilez_920

    I think the poster was a little distasteful. But the message is true to an extent. While poverty, education and access to contraceptives are big factors in teen pregnancy especially in the black community, ultimately we have to get across the message to these girls that having a baby at a young age isn’t easy, it isn’t cute and it can put a big road block in future plans. Young girls run off of emotions, sometimes you have to tell them and repeat to them like “hey theirs a chance that the 16 yr old boy trying to get in your pants wont be around when the ish hits the fan.

    I wish we would make more campaigns and posters geared towards boys and safe chex/teen pregnancy. Also I wish people would stop saying that these poster are bashing single mothers. These posters are warning teens about the consequences of teen pregnancy. Most young teen single mothers are unwed, and the ones on our community tend to be unwed with no option of co-parenting with a responsible young man in sight.

  • http://twitter.com/Blu_wire11 @Blu_wire11

    The ads are offensive. But that's almost besides the point.

    When I was young, I wanted things. I wanted things that came from an education and things that I, in my young mind, assumed I could not have if I ended up pregnant. Frankly I felt that way well into my 20's. I had a future that I hoped to have that would have been foreclosed to me if I became a mom too soon. That kept me honest as much or as any religion or parenting mantra.

    Maybe instead of scaring them with the parade of horribles that they could earn with getting pregnant, maybe tap into what they want from life that they would have to give up if they had a baby. Tap into their hopes and aspirations and give them something to want, more than to carelessly risk pregnancy, child support and poverty.

    Maybe if the ads gave them the impression that we too believed in their potential to succeed, rather than haranguing them about their likelihood of failure, it would make more of a difference.

    • SMilez_920

      I can agree with this. I think the posters are a tad bit distasteful, but you have to understand the negative consequences to your actions. At the same time these children (especially in poor black communities) hear about failure everyday. To some of these girls being a mother gives them a title some sort of ownership. Maybe they could make a poster like Girl walking across a college graduation stage with honors sashes across her shoulders with the caption

      “I was the first person to graduate college from my family, babies can wait, my future NOT SO MUCH”.

      • http://twitter.com/Blu_wire11 @Blu_wire11

        I don't think teenagers are stupid or that they don't understand that having a baby is going to be hard. What they may not understand is what else there is that they can do, or what other options life has to offer that would make them vigilant about keeping on a non-parenting path.

        So agreed. Ads that highlight, "you can be something other than a mom." "There are other ways to feel love and be loved other than having a baby." "Sex with your husband is far more rewarding than sex with your first boyfriend." I don't know, grasping for creative straws a bit, but just something where we tell them we think they can be loved and good at something else.

        Just creating choices and hope about what they could do with their lives, I think that might be as good of a sex ed tool as ads telling them not to be losers and have loser babies. Apathy and hopelessness probably just as much to blame for teen pregnancy as much as poverty and lack of proper sex education.

  • Uncle Hugh, BP

    Spot on. Forget their feelings. There feelings are more important than increasing their odds of poverty and all the pathologies of being in a single-parent household?*

    We are way past the stage about caring about feelings. The odds being against their favor is well-established, in addition to having to struggle much more even if they do beat the odds.

    *Yes, you may be from a single-parent household and have turned out great. That still doesn't change the statistics or the fact that the young single parent will struggle more in raising that child.

  • DeKeLa

    Feelings? Shame? Offemsive?

    We got an epidemic in NYC of teen pregnancies, and a bold ad campaign to jostle emotions and hopefully reach these knuckleheads in a language they understand.

    And people are concern about feelings?

    What about the strain on tax-payers pockets for programs to help Mothers and new borns, (WIC, NY Free healthcare for children, women's/family shelters, medicaid, etc.) The incredible rate of poverty, lack of education, job opportunities and societal stigmas that are associated with teen moms. The unnerving cycle of teen moms begetting teen moms. The likelihood that these children will not be raised in two-parent household..

    But No… because they don't inspire confidence or rosy-colored dreams, young guys and girls won't get it….

    BS

    • Uncle Hugh, BP

      All the above. In the words of Jay-Z, f___ your feelings.

    • http://twitter.com/Blu_wire11 @Blu_wire11

      Pregnant teenagers are not the enemy. Adults approaching them as if the are probably only alienates them further and likely produces little actual positive change.

      • Uncle Hugh, BP

        Alienate them further? What are they going to do? See the ad, get mad, then run out to get knocked up out of spite? Then say, "that'll show them!"

        • http://twitter.com/Blu_wire11 @Blu_wire11

          The point is to reach the teens before they get pregnant. I'm suggesting that the teens will see the ad and completely ignore the message. Instead of getting their attention and getting them to think about changing behavior, they will reject the message, it's content and the entire notion of taking precaution when/if they have sex. They will tune out the messages that sound like attacks.

          If the goal is to get them to alter their behavior, approaching them as if they are the enemy is likely the worse way to go about that. That's what I mean.

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          I guess I just don't see where there is an insult at all, much less the teens that this is targeted to.

          Honestly Mom…chances are he won't stay with you. What happens to me?

          Got a good job? I cost thousands of dollars each year.

          If you finish high schoool, get a job, and get married before having children, you have a 98% chance of not being in poverty.

          Dad, you'll be paying to support me for the next 20 years.

          I'm twice as likely not to graduate high school because you had me as a teen.

          Maybe I'm just insensitive, but someone needs to point the insult out to me.

        • h.h.h.

          "Maybe I'm just insensitive, but someone needs to point the insult out to me."

          using a black girl in one of the ads, apparently.

  • MissLia

    I honestly like the basic concept of two of the ads. However, I think the other three slightly miss the mark. These would have been much more effective if they would have used adults in the pictures instead of kids.

    But as far as these being offensive and shameful tactics, I'm not seeing it. Maybe someone who's already a teen mom or dad might feel that way. But these aren't for them, they're for the ones who aren't in their predicament. Teen pregnancy, shoot any pregnancy is preventable. But teens have a lot more at stake and they need to know it.

  • Tunde

    are they lying tho? not one bit. i don't have a problem with these ads. the truth hurts.
    My recent post Not Everything Is Ok In Black America, But What’s Next?

    • RPrice

      Exactly. Being a Parent is not easy. When I was a teen, I wasn't neccessarily tuning out ads like the ones posted. hey made me want to have something better. I believe that teens need adults to give them real messages about life in general with real ups and downs.

  • Southerngyrl_

    If I thought these ads would actually help, then I would support it. I grew up taking sexual education courses where they showed pictures of people who had STDs in its extreme state. There were even pictures just passed around. That didn't stop a alot of those folks from having unsafe sex (quite a few teen pregnancies). I guess I am cynical about it all, but right now this just seems like a stunt.

    There are so many issues behind teen pregnancies. People have already gone over it further up in the thread (poverty, lack of education, lack of resources, even generational teen pregnancy). We are assuming these kids have never heard all of this before, but I would beg to differ. Sometimes it is their school, their parents, or even friends giving them the message. They've heard it all before.

    There definitely needs to more education. This education should be in rural areas as well (same rates of teen pregnancy). Shaming them isn't going to help. They've been doing that since the 60s and ish has only increased since then. I also don't think a lot of these kids are ashamed of much. Maybe it is just my observations, but they are damned bold these days. A lot of them just think this crap is cute.

  • http://www.lifeisablast.org payne well

    Honestly i think that kids need to know more of the "dirty" side of having children when they are teenagers. I think that today we want to be understanding and tolerant of everything! We don't want to offend this or hurt that, and we are losing our way. What ever happened to tough love? We need to quit sugar coating everything and give the real thing.
    My recent post just say you’re ready when all the baggage just ain’t as heavy

    • http://www.OpinionatedMale.com Mr SoBo

      Exactly. Similar to what i wrote down thread. I approve this message. Tough love has all but disappeared. Too much tolerance. Who came up with this notion that everyone needs to be tolerant of everything and everyone? Why is there such a large push for this in these times? What does being tolerant of all things accomplish and how is this beneficial to society as a whole?
      Too much of one thing is good for nothing, and too much tolerance is more harmful and opens up the door for a whole host of problems.

      Mr. SoBo
      OpinionatedMale.com
      My recent post The Pope, Commitment & The Moral Decline of A Nation

  • http://www.OpinionatedMale.com Mr SoBo

    "What do you guys think of the ads? Offensive or spot on?

    Spot on. The truth at times can be extremely offensive. Nothing wrong with that. Reality is harsh, so its only sensible that ads and any other attempt to emphasize the realities of life be consistent with that. Not everything can or should be presented in pretty little pictures with ladybugs and butterflies. Thats not life.

    The larger question is, what can we do to prevent teen pregnancies?"

    Simple. Reintroduce shame in our society. We live in a time where shame is virtually non existent and people are almost discouraged from doing so. It has become a place where it seems like the only people getting shamed, are those who dare attempt to shame others. At which point the 'who are you to judge' crowd will promptly chime in to defend the shameless. Rubbish.

    Judgment is necessary. The lack of shaming and associating shame with certain behaviors that are clearly potentially harmful has resulted in this societal passive acceptance that proves to be of ZERO benefit to anyone. In this instance, babies having babies. A society without shame is a society without standards. And a society without standards is destined to become a crushing weight upon itself.

    We live in a post Adam & Eve era, so the Garden done changed. Shame is a necessary evil if you will.

    Mr. SoBo
    OpinionatedMale.com

    My recent post The Pope, Commitment & The Moral Decline of A Nation

    • Southerngyrl_

      I said earlier that the shame thing has been done, and it has. It hasn't helped anything. Have you ever seen movies (or read books) that showed what used to happen to women who got pregnant as teens in 1930s through 1960s? They were sent away to homes for unwed mothers and usually the child was given up for adoption, or in a few cases they were sent to live with relatives far away and someone else would raise the child. Shame pushed the problem further into the dark.

      How did we get from there to where we are now? Obviously there was an increase in the rate of teen pregnancy, so I am less inclined to believe that helped anything or that it can help anything. Teen pregnancy is more or less a symptom of a larger problem. Using shame as a way of preventing pregnancy? Nah dude. That cat is already out of the bag.

      • Uncle Hugh, BP

        Southerngyrl_ : "I said earlier that the shame thing has been done, and it has. It hasn't helped anything.

        Perhaps. But coddling them and sparing their feelings have made it worse.

        • Southerngyrl_

          I don't agree about the coddling or sparing of feelings. There are so many other reason why this is occurring.

          I think most people think that all of these teens getting pregnant just needed to be told off and all will be right. It won't. For the most part it has all been done before. I think the shame many people on here talk about is so that they can feel good about "telling it like it is" to a bunch of teenagers. So you tell the teen that your life won't be ish if you get pregnant right now, what next? They won't magically start using condoms and taking BC pills. Shoot, we can't even get some 30 year olds to do that.

          What people aren't saying is that although the rates are high, the overall teenage pregnancy rate has fallen about 40% from 1990 – 2008. I think that is progress right there.

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          Southerngyrl_ : "There are so many other reason why this is occurring. I think most people think that all of these teens getting pregnant just needed to be told off and all will be right. It won't."

          I agree with that. I question the effectiveness of the program overall.

          Ultimately, they need to be told the seriousness of the matter. If someone wants to do it in a more supportive manner, fine. But I can't get with all this "this is sooo insulting! stuff. I'm not worried about sparing their feelings.

          I also am still not seeing where the insult is.

        • Smilez_920

          Its def progress, but taking care of a child is getting more and more expensive. Most teens don't have the money to take care of a child alone, and if they already live in an improvised neighborhood their parents probably don't have a lot of money to help, so they have to ask the state for money. That's why these programs and posters are coming out; its killing pockets when you have teen girls not only having one baby but 2 back to back. I guess people feel like they’ve tired the nice approach now you need the tough love. You have to get in these girls (and guys had) that a baby is a responsibility; it can hold you up from doing better things. That’s why I think they created those posters with the hotline number below. I think the poster should be a mix of consequences and what can happen if you decide to not have chex/use protection and not have a baby.

        • SMilez_920

          I think the poster is a little harsh but there’s truth to it. The issue is you can’t just show you have to prove. You have to have programs for these teens to go to and get contraceptives other than condoms. Places they can go to receive GYN care. The BX has one of the highest rates of young HIV cases in the city, I can bet a lot of these teen girls having chex have never even been to a GYN. Heck I even was with the whole passing out Plan B in school.

  • Smilez_920

    The facts in the poster aren’t wrong. We can tell all the 1 in 5 stories of women who were teen mothers who’ve become successful , but what about the other 4 or 5 that couldn’t progress. I’m also a little sick of our community putting single motherhood on this pedestal . Yes I give pros to women taking care of their children alone, but we need to stop making that the norm ( on both ends man as woman). I’m not saying everyone has to get married or anything but 2 healthy parents co-parenting would do wonders in our community .

    I will say the posters are not giving them a Physical solution to solve the problem. Try creating programs that provide these young women with free or very cheap birth control even plan b if needed.

    The posters are something that should be inside of the clinics were they can receive birth control, the flyers should tell them where they can get protection. If you show a painter that tells them what their missing out on by getting pregnant along with the consequences , it could make more of an impact .

  • http://twitter.com/jtSolBroSupreme @jtSolBroSupreme

    you can forget about shaming kids in areas where they are either determined to do what they want to do and/or are ignoring warnings, defying authority and thats from parents, teachers, any adults. The shame of teenage pregnancy went out the window a long time ago as I see far too many of us having babyshowers when teens get pregnant – wow what a deterrent. Of course, any opposition to teen baby showers is always met with some sillyass "well the baby need stuff" foolishness. No chit, yes, "the baby needs stuff" and a helluva lot more than 2 teen dummies can provide. So, yeah, the family steps in and provides what is needed but celebrating teen pregnancy with baby showers sends an even bigger WRONGASS message.

    • Southerngyrl_

      My mom would love this. She takes it a step further though. She won't go to a baby shower if the person is unmarried.

  • http://twitter.com/jtSolBroSupreme @jtSolBroSupreme

    As for these signs, I'm not sure I would say they are offensive because there is some truth to them that we cannot ignore. Do some teen parents end up being successes? Of course they do, but far too many go on to to have more kids before they even graduate high school IF they graduate and end up a in a life of Sec 8 housing and welfare…NOT ALL, but TOO DAMN MANY. And I'm not stereotyping, I know what I see in MY community and on my past jobs.

    Just my 2 cents, like it or not. Fugg a damn sign cause teen pregnancy is already offensive in itself but our community has unfortunately accepted it as a norm.

  • http://twitter.com/jtSolBroSupreme @jtSolBroSupreme

    as for the overall teen pregnancy rates falling….what is the rate for OUR kids? has it also fallen or is it the same or higher? I need to research that.

    • Southerngyrl_

      It decreased all around, but for non-hispanic black teens and hispanic teens the rates are stil 2 to 3 times higher. Another article I read said that from 1991through 2011, the rates for black non-hispanic black teens and hispanic teens decreased by more than 50% for both groups.

  • J. Crawford

    What do you guys think of the ads?
    I have Zero Problems with the ads. as a 25 Year old Black Man, I've grew up with plenty of ads like "1-3 Black Males will end up in Prison rather than College: Drop the Drugs and Pick Up a Book", and have had the Sex Ed & Abstinence lessons. Do we REALLY Need to keep having Remedial and Old, Recycled lectures that have the Reaganomics Effect??? This is New and to plent a Throwback of how the Village SPOKE.

    Offensive or spot on?
    Again, as a 25 Year-old this is SPOT-ON, While I am a Father to a newly 5 year old I did not KEEP the lessons I've seen and hear to Heart, but 1) I'm not a Dopeboy, 2) I'm NOT in Jail/Prison, 3) I'm NOT a Deadbeat. I Work, Getting my Degree, Have the Resources to Provide, so I'm an Exception to much of the Multilayers of Conditions that have created this crisis, but the Rules STILL Apply

    • J. Crawford

      The larger question is, what can we do to prevent teen pregnancies?
      Keep the Programs and Lessons that DO work and Find New Approaches to keep the Reductions going. Shaming DOES have an Effect when it comes to Kids, and as we All USED to be Young we know Full Well that in order to Not be Teased the Common Sense thing was to STOP doing the Things that would Warrant Teasing in the First Place. This ain't hard; If OUR Parents and Grandparents and our "villages" were Hard on Us & We WANT to return to that then we need to see these Ads as a Larger Voice of a NATIONAL, Multiracial Village.

  • CheZ Louie

    I agree with the posters purpose. I believe in tough love. All of my friends know if they come to me with their problems, they will get the harsh truth. They hate it but they still listen and still come. I went to high school in Brooklyn where we had a day-care center…. I knew a girl who was on the top of class and fell out of the standings because of an unexpected pregnancy. She is doing well tho, she pulled herself by the boot straps and is in a good place with her kid. The father is still in the child's life. I think what helped is her family. Im not sure about the fathers' family. But, the key is that her family helped out.
    This brings me to a point. Alot of problems in the Black Community is that we are not a community at all. We are so separated its not funny. We are quick to create cliques and shun people that are not like you. We dont embrace our differences. We have no resources because we dont buy back into the environment we live in. Instead, our neighborhoods are being bought and sold for higher prices. We need our own place. We need to unite. That old saying: "It takes a village to raise a child" is never more true than it is NOW. We are concerned about the wrong things…celebrities, parties, clothes, what we have or dont have….. Instead of throwing our degrees and jobs in front of everyone faces, we need to take those degrees and turn it on our environment. It is sad and it gets me angry when they are arguments and hate between Africans, Caribbeans and Black American. Why? And no offense to White People but they couldnt care less about our nationality. We are all the same to them……We have so much potential but what are we doing?
    So idk, I know I went off in a big tangent, but if we supported ourselves and each other, they would be scared. Tough love or not, the core of our problems is the LACK OF UNITY. And dont look to the stars and celebrities, politicians to help us out, it starts with us. We got to stop identifying with states and continents and countries, I know we all got different cultures, traditions and such and we are proud of where we are from. Im black american and welcome Africans and Caribbeans, it so interesting to hear about their country's history. We are not that different from each other. We can keep our culture but lets not dis-credit others, lets embrace and strengthen our overall history as a Race, as One people. This segregation by "lines" is not our thoughts or idea. Its part of HIS-STORY. Its not OURS. Our STORY is not done, we got alot of empty pages and chapters to fill, lets bring it back.

    • CheZ Louie

      And Im not saying that teen pregnancy is ok if we are unity but it could be a deterrent against teen pregnancies, jail, gangs, drugs, etc.

    • Jerry

      Well said!!

  • amaris79

    What do I think of the ads? Well…how effective exactly were the "lemme show you I only have three fingers left" Anti-smoking ads? Do you remember them? Anyone? My point.

    This is one instance where the shaming tactic is a stupid waste of taxpayer dollars. I have never seen a dumber set of ads since that commercial with the "turn ya frown upside down" Ja-faikan dude. You know that "abstinence only" education was a form of shaming, right? You see how well THAT worked, right?

    Listen, if you want to know why girls are getting pregnant, volunteer to work with some. What you will see is a gross lack of education (some girls still think douche is a form of birth control) and the absence of tools for these girls to have discussions with their partner. Telling them a baby is expensive isn't going to stop her from sleeping with Jamal, because she wants Jamal to like her and since no man from the time she was born has shown interest in her unless it included a sexual component she's going to do what she feels she has to do. She doesn't know how to say no properly, or keep herself out of compromising situations. She does not know the tools available to her to keep her from becoming pregnant. She doesn't even know her v*g is self-cleaning. I've worked with girls that did not even know proper hygiene, let alone proper birth control methods. But they do know Jamal likes the girls in the videos and if she acts like that maybe he'll like her, too. Some of these comments are really disturbing.

    • Uncle Hugh, BP

      Auto-Matic Affirmative Reply Information System (A.M.A.R.I.S.)*: "Telling them a baby is expensive isn't going to stop her from sleeping with Jamal, because she wants Jamal to like her and since no man from the time she was born has shown interest in her unless it included a sexual component she's going to do what she feels she has to do."

      But isn't that exactly what the ad is warning against?

      Teen girl: "Jamal cares about me, and I love him! I really want to express how much I like him physically, I want him to be my first! Plus I'm having these physical urges."

      Potential Child/Advertisement: "Honestly Mom…chances are he won't stay with you. What happens to me?"

      *I still don't believe you're a real person!

      • amaris79

        That ad is useless, because every kid thinks they're the exception and they'll live forever. What they need is education. Real practice conversations so they know how to say no in various situations. Confidence so they know they are still worthy even if a boy walks away. Mentorship. Anything but this useless ad.

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          I think it's useless and a waste of taxpayer dollars too. But since they are doing an ad regardless, I think the ad at least makes the point. Whether the kids care one way or another, regardless of however the message is stated, is another issue.

  • SMielz_920

    Agree. I think teens need both. They need the access and information about their bodies and pregnancy prevention in order to make smart choices. At the same time the need to see the consequences of having a child young and what they could miss out on. Knowing the consequences and the outlook of what the future could be, will encourage them to get the information and contraceptives to say safe. Now the missing piece of that puzzle is the information and contraceptives have to be readily available and accessible for them.

    Sidenote: A lot of the girls are getting sex ed from these little boys who know absolutely nothing. Some of these boys think they cant get a girl pregnant if she’s on top smh.

    • J. Crawford

      Apparently they are misreading about Gravity and the concept of Matter and Mass in Science Class….

      *maybe that's why the U.S. is lagging in STEM courses in comparison to the rest of the world*

    • Southerngyrl_

      Yep, or they can't get pregnant if they have sex standing up. Ridiculous.

  • amaris79

    Oh, and LMAO!!!!!

  • Jerry

    Bravo to the ads…if your a teen your thinking about this ad. Why is it even a question. Dont have kids while your a teen. Done. Lets stop being PC people.

  • http://twitter.com/sabadaga @sabadaga

    What do you guys think of the ads?
    These ads are so on point and i really hope that some teens will get the memo and open their eyes on the truth.

    Offensive or spot on?
    Not offensive at all but it's constructive.

    The larger question is, what can we do to prevent teen pregnancies?
    They need someone to talk them out of screwing up their lives, they need real models but the problem is that black men and black women are way too busy to tear each other down and put the blame on each other.

  • Ajdh10

    The Black child tells her mom to seriously think if her dad will be around, the white child is telling his dad about paying to support him. There are several issues with these ads the presumption that teen parents are incapable although they definitely face challenges and two the underlying race assumptions. So instead of having the children what are they promoting? Celibacy? Birth Control? Adoption? Abortion? I see condemnation of a perceived problem with no offer of a solution.

  • Chantel

    They disgust me on so many levels because the children look like brown people! I believe societal standards of 'popular opinion', always assuming brown people fall under these categories when we make up less than 30% of the population. I believe the campaign could have targeted their ads at positive reinforcement instead of negative punishment, btw if negative punishment actually worked we would not be giving the penal system over $200 billion dollars a year for people!

  • Pingback: Conflicts of Interest: Child Support – The Woman’s Point of View via Single Black Male

  • Pingback: Conflicts of Interest: Child Support – The Man’s Point of View via Single Black Male