Marriage For All

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On April 23, 2013 France passed their “Marriage For All” law that extends marriage and adoption rights to gay couples. France is the 14th country in the world to pass such a law.  I couldn’t be happier for France because rights such as this shouldn’t be limited to certain parts of a country but should be extended to all citizens. France and 13 other countries get that. America doesn’t. Perhaps it’s because marriage equality is such a polarizing issue, but our federal government just can’t get it together. Providing certain rights to a certain subset of our citizens but not others is not something that should be left up to states. Although I would like to point out that my home state recently made history as the first state to affirm marriage equality at the ballot box.

Many of my friends have been getting married, I recently attended my first same-sex marriage and it was absolutely beautiful. The two brides (African-American and Sudanese) seemed to be completely in love and I’m happy they can start their lives together with the same rights to marriage as any man and woman in this country. It’s a shame that if they lived in a state like Virginia, then it wouldn’t be possible. Before I got to the wedding, I wondered if it would feel any different from a heterosexual wedding, but I saw and felt no discernible difference between any heterosexual weddings I’ve attended.

One glaring thing that I noticed in the wedding is that neither of the brides’ parents were in attendance. I noticed this when both were given away from their brothers. The parents of the African-American woman still had a semblance of a relationship with their daughter, but they chose not to attend the wedding. The parents of the Sudanese woman stopped speaking to her after she gave birth to their son (through a sperm donor). Regardless of their opinions, I personally thought it was sad that their parents couldn’t be there for their children on one of the biggest days of their lives. The fact that the African-American parents had some resemblance of a relationship with their daughter and the African parents didn’t was not lost on me.

I started to wonder if it was possible that since my parents are African would they accept me if I happened to be gay. I don’t doubt that my parents love me and would do anything for me since I’m their favorite child, but both of my parents are also conservative. Although I’ve done everything in life to meet their approval, all that would go out the window if I were to tell my parents I planned on doing anything other than getting married to a woman before the age of 35 and having 3 children and 2 dogs. You can’t help who you are and what you’re attracted to so for your family and loved ones to ostracize you for that must make life close to unbearable. We tend to lose sight of that in this world of heterosexual privilege.  Even if I was against marriage equality before I attended that wedding, I don’t think I would have been against it after I left. I’d have to be heartless to be so.

The fight against marriage equality is a losing one. It’s going to happen sooner or later in all 50 states. Politicians and public figures who ignorantly disregard the rights of homosexuals will be looked back through the lens of time in the same light as figures such as Bull Connor and George Wallace. Just because America is not the forerunner in reversing this archaic way of thinking doesn’t mean its not going to happen. America also lagged behind in recognizing other human rights but we eventually caught on with the rest of the world.

Do you believe in marriage equality at the state or federal level? Do you know any gay married couples or couples in civil unions? Do you think your family and loved ones would accept you if you happened to be gay or come out the closet?

– Tunde

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  • MaggK

    I'm french and i was shocked to see how this "marriage for all" law totally divided the country. I'm super glad the law passed!!! I hope that in the US all the states will pass the law too.
    I think it's such a waste of time to have all these debates about homosexuality… We could be talking about unemployment, healthcare, guns control… It's way more important than who's marrying who… Like we're not even supposed to care that much about other people life.
    My parents are african too… And I personally never met one african parent who was ok with the concept of homosexuality… We have a long way to go. I find it sad to be rejected by your family just because you're gay…
    Congratulations to your friends, plus they have a baby… AWWWWWWWWWWWW i love it! (I also am for gay having children!)

    • Tunde

      "We could be talking about unemployment, healthcare, guns control… It's way more important than who's marrying who…"

      that's my whole point. all the messed up things in this world and we waste our time focusing on things that don't matter at the end of the day. if you think its an abomination for a man to marry a man or woman to marry a woman, how about you worry about your own salvation and leave others to theirs. i heard about the push back in france. its sad people can be so close minded.

  • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

    I think it needs to be on a federal level however, given the ignorance in this country I can understand why even the most liberal politicians rather defer to the states. Knowing my parents, my father would want no parts, my mother would’ve protested early but eventually softened her stance. My two godbrothers are gay one open, one half in half out, both are single so to this point I don’t know any couples.

    • Tunde

      i think we should put it to a popular vote nationwide. let the people decide for themselves. then again it still might not pass. too much ignorance.
      My recent post Marriage for All…

      • Betroit

        It is interesting that you say that. I don't think any of these issues facing Americans today (Sexual Orientation Equality, Gender equality, health care, gun control, etc.) would ever be left up to a popular vote. Reason being is that there would be no argument! Most of these things would past with flying colors because the majority of people in this country understand their importance. Congress is not about that "letting go of power and actually doing what the constituents are asking for" life.

        • DeKeLa

          You are REALLY overestimating the religious conservative population in America, if this went to a popular vote, it would not pass.

        • Tunde

          you have a point there but then again i know a lot of liberals who still oppose equal marriage. think back to how many church folk who supported obama during this first election turned on him when he came out in support of equal rights.
          My recent post Marriage for All…

      • Larry

        "….then again it still might not pass. too much ignorance."

        Man, exactly! If we left things like this up to a popular vote me and you probably still wouldn't be able to vote, lol.

        • Marie-Christine

          the fact that some people are against "the marriage for all" or against homosexuality does not mean they are ignorant that's just a different view of things ! i'm french and it bothers me that the real selling point of this law is love, marriage is not about love or at least not initially and not in the law. It's about the fondation of a country, it's about defining the normal behaviour that should be expected.

          What this law is saying it's that there is a new norm but truth be told there can't be two norm

  • Petey J

    The problem is marriage is not a right. Calling it a right makes it seem like something that nobody should be able to oppose, we'll because it is a right. The problem is rights can't be abridged. Any right that needs state sanction is not a right it is a privilege granted by the state and limited by the state. Now we can go round and round all day about whether or not the state should allow same sex marriage, for the record I say not, but lets stop calling it a right. Marriage simply is not a right.

    • Tunde

      ok. i agree with you there but you still can't give one group of people a privilege and deny it to another group. education isn't a right either but black people were denied equal access to education. i think you missed my entire point.
      My recent post Marriage for All…

  • SMilez_920

    I don’t know any married gay couples, but I do know gay couples. I personally don’t care who people choose to be with. If you don’t believe in Gay marriage don’t get gay married. I really don’t know how a gay couple getting married harms anyone. And marriage under the state has nothing to do with religion. So the whole bible argument is weak when it comes to passing GAY marriage across the broad. (Separation of church and state.)
    I think my parents would think it’s a phase at first if I said I liked women. I have one or two cousins who the family knows is gay. There not overly loud about it just is. I think my parents would come to my wedding regardless, they still might be up in arms about it, but they wouldn’t leave me hanging like that. My cousins and friends would’nt care either way, they’d be there.

    • Tunde

      "If you don’t believe in Gay marriage don’t get gay married."

      basically
      My recent post Marriage for All…

    • Uncle Hugh, BP

      SMilez_920: "And marriage under the state has nothing to do with religion. So the whole bible argument is weak when it comes to passing GAY marriage across the broad. (Separation of church and state.)"

      But marriage is a religious sacrament. Since there is a separation of church and state, the government doesn't (or shouldn't) have the power to recognize any marriage, no more than recognizing baptism. Civil union to give people (straight and gay) rights, yes. Marriage, no.

      • SMilez_920

        The church doesn’t own the right to the word marriage. It is a religious sacrament if you do it in a church or under some sort of religious authority. If you’re in the court doing it, it's a legal contract between two people. The representation that contract holds (religious sacrament, a symbol of our love) is up to the two ppl.

        As long as there are legal benefits that come with the worked marriage, I can see what a gay couple would want to have those benefits no different than a straight couple.

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          I'm not saying they shouldn't, they definitely should. But the problem is the term "marriage." Marriage is a religious sacrament, but it has been converted into a legal contract.

          So just get rid of the term marriage. When this country began, people didn't get legally marriaged, they had it documented at their church. It wasn't until racists wanted to prevent miscegenation that they made marriage a legal contract. But if there is a separation of church and state (which people assure there is), then get rid of the religious term "marriage", replace it with the legal term "civil union". Everyone gets their rights and religious people don't have to feel like their beliefs are being compromised.

        • SMilez_920

          Their beliefs aren’t compromised because they don't have to be gay married. What about ppl who don't believe in God but get married, should they not be allowed to use the term married to describe their union? The church doesn’t have ownership over the term marriage/ married. So church ppl aren’t mad at homosexuality they just don’t want gay ppl to us they same word they use to describe their relationship?

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          "Their beliefs aren’t compromised because they don't have to be gay married."

          False equivalence. That's like saying it's fine to believe that there's nothing wrong with having an orgy on the church altar because they don't have to join in.

          "…should they not be allowed to use the term married to describe their union?"

          I thought it was about rights and equality, now it's about the term? Besides, it's a religious term; why would care if you don't believe in some god?

          "The church doesn’t have ownership over the term marriage/ married."

          It's still a religious sacrament. They don't have ownership over the term "sin" or "bible" either, but we know where those words came from and the connotation of using them. That's why I explained how it became a legal term.

          I'm curious why so much of the talk is centered on the church. Plenty of people who never stepped foot in a church aren't keen on hom0$exuality or g@y marriage.

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          "So church ppl aren’t mad at homosexuality they just don’t want gay ppl to us they same word they use to describe their relationship?"

          Many church people are mad at h0m0$exuality. But many church people that aren't don't want to commit sacrilege by taking what is a religious sacrament between man, woman and God and deliberately introduce what God called sin into it.

          I personally don't care if a man wants to have $ex with other men, no more than I care if a man cheats on his wife, constantly lies or covets everyone he comes in contact with. But if you select someone of the same $ex to spend your life with, you should receive the same legal benefits. If the word "marriage" is the only thing keeping that from happening, then let straight people forfeit their right to legal marriage, and everyone can get a civil union if they want the legal benefits.

        • Larry

          I see what you're saying, man. People are mainly, (subconsiously, possibly) up in arms about the nomenclature revolving around the word "marriage" and the definition behind it and how it applies to the law or what not.

        • Adonis

          And @Uncle Hugh just put me on game today, thank you.

          It wasn’t until racists wanted to prevent miscegenation that they made marriage a legal contract.

          Who knew?

      • CHeeKZ Money

        "But marriage is a religious sacrament"

        When the preacher marries you he says "By the power invested in me, by the state of swaggy ninjas" If marriage was only religious this wouldn't be an issue. I would just found a religion that recognizes gay marriage, there are ones that already exist.

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          "I would just found a religion that recognizes gay marriage, there are ones that already exist."

          Of course they are. Go there, get married and enjoy life. That was EXACTLY what I've been saying from the start.

          "By the power invested in me, by the state of swaggy ninjas"

          As I said earlier, it has been mutated in this country from a religious sacrament into a legal contract, because racists whites didn't want mixed marriages. It became a legal contract by government edict. The only reason they preachers that is because someone wants to legally be married for the benefits.

        • CHeeKZ Money

          not arguing vs your solution. I'm just in denial of marriage as only a religious sacrament since it has existed in cultures from the start no matter the religion making them cultural not religious

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          That is my point, it was either explicitly religious or the ceremonies had religious undertones. From the Ubi tu Gaius, ego Gaia recitiation of the Romans to the Vikings honoring the goddess Frigga, religion played a part of the union in just about every culture.

          In full disclosure, many cultures made contractual arrangements, and I believe the Egyptians may have been the first to make it a legal contract. But the ceremonies still were typically completed by making a vow to some god.

        • CHeeKZ Money

          they also always had a political impact……… leaving secular value. And they have also been interfaith since the beginning of time. b/c no one is going to let an imaginary friend get in the way of some good wet kitty.

          Full Disclosure, see no reason why I should be held by the standards of the past. What marriage has been is not what it is now

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          I didn't say they didn't have secular value nor they haven't been interfaith (especially considering interfaith weddings are common even today). And in many cases, they had no political impact other than guaranteeing some rights so women weren't financially left in the cold (which is pretty much what I'm saying).

          And I had no idea "imaginary friend/s" has ever stopped anyone from getting some good wet kitty. Looking at the illegitimacy rates, I'm not sure where you're even going with that comment.

  • http://whatyouallow.com/ Wildflower

    They are still human beings and should be granted the rights as everyone else. However, when I was raised I was raised with the impression that a man and woman got together, got married, and had kids.

    I don't fully support gay marriage but I'm not against it either. But I just think that God created marriage for a man and woman. I have gay friends and I love them to death but it is weird hearing about it.
    My recent post Relationships + Facebook = Breakups

    • Mr. B

      I can respect that line of thinking. I understand that it's "different" and most people were raised under the impression that love, couples & marriage looks one way… and then here we come showing you something different.

      The only thing I've asked of my hetero counterparts is to be open enough to the idea that just because it isn't YOUR reality, doesn't mean it can't be a viable option for someone else. And this is a reason I don't discuss my sexuality or love life unless asked by my straight friends. And then my answer is tailored to if they're just genuinely interested or if they're just talking to be talking lol.

      Off of that tangent, I do appreciate your current stance. I just hope one day you'll see that we love the same & just want to live our lives with the mate of our choosing. Married or not, I'm gonna love who I love regardless. It would just be easier if we had certain rights afforded to us that are afforded to other couples in this country.

      • http://whatyouallow.com/ Wildflower

        I'm not trying to rub anyone the wrong way but I do feel like if someone is not in total compliance with gay rights there is a problem. I'm not going to harass you on the streets or give you mean looks because you are still a human being at the end of the day. If that is the lifestyle you chose, great for you. But you also have to be aware that not everyone is going to feel the same as you.

        With that being said, I will never look down on you as an individual. You love who you love and that's ok. You gave a great pov and sometimes it helps break down those barriers with people who may not totally be in agreeance with everything in the gay community. I can certainly respect what you said and I have even learned from it.
        My recent post Calling vs Texting

  • Mr. B

    Being a gay male, it’s actually refreshing to see my peers actually speaking positively on this subject. It lets me know that attitudes are changing and that’s a dope feeling. I don’t think everyone has the ability to process the fact that I did NOT choose this. As much as I’d like to have the same “physical response” most men have to women, I don’t. I can’t help that. But for whatever reason people think you’re just “daring to be different” and it sucks.

    It took me a LONG time to accept myself in light of knowing most people won’t accept me. I’m still struggling a bit but each day gets better. But these steps toward equality are so big to me. I’m not trying to disrupt any heterosexual marriage, but because I want the same rights as my others I’m supposed to feel bad? Miss me with that. For me it’s just about little things like property, hospital visitation, joint tax filings & being able to rent cars together when we’re on vacation. Married folks will understand that last one lol.

    All in all, most homosexuals just want to be left alone to live their lives. Period. If we could stop the ostracizing, there would be less of us lying about it and trying to pretend to like women. They only do it for acceptance but that’s a losing fight. And when that secret comes out its a lose-lose for everyone. A little understanding goes a long way. So next time you’re opposed to gays doing ANYTHING (like existing smh) just think for a minute and see why you’re so closed off to the idea. Is it something you were taught or what? And as far as religion, Muslims, Buddhists, etc. aren’t persecuted for not falling in line with “Christian teachings” so using church as a reason should be invalid.

    Thanks for letting me speak my peace. 1 up for equality.

    • Smilez_920

      "For me it's just about little things like property, hospital visitation, joint tax filings & being able to rent cars together when we're on vacation. Married folks will understand that last one lol."—>this

    • Tunde

      "All in all, most homosexuals just want to be left alone to live their lives."

      i wish more people would just live and let live. glad you took something away from the post.
      My recent post Marriage for All…

      • Mr. B

        Definitely. Thanks for writing it. It’s given me a lot to think about.

      • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com Wu Young

        “”All in all, most homosexuals just want to be left alone to live their lives.”

        America is suck a nosey country. The fact that we try to legislate morals and inject our goals, thoughts, and standards into the lives of our neighbors is a telling issue that we have on a national level.

        • DeKeLa

          And what country doesn't do this? We are a nation that does not have a national language, religion and the most diverse population. I not in favor of everything we do, but to say other countries do not participate in steering culture through legislation much more drastically than the U.S. is ludicrous.

        • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com Wu Young

          I never said we were the only nation that did this. Sure, many nations do this but I’m still not in agreeance with their policies but I’m not a citizen of those nations. When it come to legislation of morals I think our politicians need to pull back.

    • Chel

      I see where you're coming from. I just hope that you would understand that just because some people don't agree with being gay or your preference doesn't mean they all hate your or don't accept you. I don't agree with it, but I I wouldn't treat you any less different. I guess many people find that hard to understand but I think you should receive those things from a legal standpoint. I just don't agree with being gay as well as all other things that go against "Christian teachings" but that doesn't mean I think of anyone as less of a person or that they should be ridiculed. So not the case.

      • http://whatyouallow.com/ Wildflower

        My point exactly!
        My recent post Calling vs Texting

      • Southerngyrl_

        This is what I don't like.

        If someone didn't like the fact that I was straight, then they really are NOT accepting me. Being gay isn't something you wake up and decide. It is part of you. Just like being straight is a big part of who I am. If you don't accept that, then you don't really accept me.

        See…this is why I tried to stay away from this conversation. smh

        • Chel

          Hmm my gay friends still hang out with me and they know that's how I feel. Maybe it's just you. I thought the whole point of marriage equality was for legal benefits? One of my gay friends said as long as I support legal benefits he could care less because that's not what the movement is about.

        • Southerngyrl_

          Your gay friend (which sounds suspiciously like the "I have black friends" argument) does not speak for all gay people. Just putting that out there.

        • Chel

          True but he's also very confident in himself and believes that what he does is his life. He doesn't force me accept his preference, but he understands that I want him to have legal benefits. After all that is the purpose of the movement like I said. If someone believes that two people living together should have benefits as a hetero couple then that's all there is to it.

  • DBoySlim

    If there were no financial incentives to being married, gay marriage would not be an issue. It really breaks down two people being penalized for being single. One question though. Would you rather have the parents not attend or object when they have the option?

    • Tunde

      from what i gathered the couple in the wedding i attended would rather have their parents stay at home versus disrupt their day.
      My recent post Marriage for All…

    • http://whatyouallow.com/ Wildflower

      I wouldn't want my parents to attend my wedding if they would cause a ruckus. I don't think anyone would.
      My recent post I need that old thing back.. 90′s RnB that is

  • DBoySlim

    If there were no financial incentives to being married, gay marriage would not be an issue. It really breaks down to people being penalized for being single. One question though. Would you rather have the parents not attend or object when they have the option?

  • http://uphereoncloud9.wordpress.com Wu Young

    It’s so sad that we’re so concerned with the happenings in our neighbors’ love lives and bedrooms. I’m all for leaving folks alone the way my pending marriage will hopefully be left alone because truthfully I’d flip out if anyone came up with a legal reason that I couldn’t get hitched to the woman I loved.

    I really wish this was legal on the Federal level but unfortunately the Feds will always see marriage as a 10th amend issue and will defer to states.

    I know of two couples (former coworkers) and both are in defacto common law marriages. Oddly enough in what I found to be oddly progressive moves for South Carolina both of my former places of employment extended full health benefits to their partners.

    I have a very Southern black baptist family. I have no idea how those cats would react. I do have a younger cousin (21) who is openly bi-sexual and she hasn’t caught any heat that I know of.

    • SMilez_920

      I notice with some families in the blk community the girls being bi/gay is'nt as shocking as the boys being gay/bi. I think with the women the family tends to get over it faster, with teh boys all heck breaks .

    • Tunde

      "I really wish this was legal on the Federal level but unfortunately the Feds will always see marriage as a 10th amend issue and will defer to states."

      i'm still holding on to hope that the federal govt will grow a pair and stop letting states run wild. not just on this issue but on gun control and immigration.
      My recent post Marriage for All…

  • Chel

    I personally don't agree with it. But I do fully support the benefits such as civil unions. I don't really think the government should be saying what marriage is and what it isn't now. Marriage is holy matrimony whether you agree with it is your business. Though it may not impact me directly right now. It will have a major impact on television, schools etc. If I teach my children one thing and they go to school and the school teaches another I have a problem with that. And that's where I think the government should not be in the marriage business. Legal contracts between two individuals for the sake of money is fine but getting into moral issues is not fair on both sides.

    A very good example of this is where I babysat for a family a while back and they told me a story about how the old babysitter discussed their sexual preference with their daughter. At the time their daughter was about 7 or 8. The babysitter stated that she likes women. This child has not been brought up in that environment let alone knows about relationships in general. This is where I have problem because it will impact people because it's not just a law issue it's also moral. If you don't agree you have every right. The old babysitter was wrong. I truly believe this is why most people oppose. In all honesty I really don't care who you love but don't get mad when I say I don't agree. I want gays to be able to have rights I really do but I dislike the fact that if I say I believe it's wrong I'm all of a sudden hating gays and blah blah blah.

    I'm sure you'll all hate me, but I have gay friends, gay family members and they all know how I feel..

    • Smilez_920

      I don't think you hate gays, but just like you have to explain anything else that happens in the world to a child, you should be able to explain GAY couples to a child. I think people are just scared that children seeing homosexual activity is automatically going to turn them gay. Of course there is appropriate behavior and couple man/woman or gay couple should do inform of a child, but come on a gay couple shouldn’t have the same legal benefits that a straight couple has because you’re scared to tell your child ppl love who they love.

      We explained to my brother early what gay and straight were. We said he doesn’t have to be gay, but he should respect others life choices.

      • Chel

        I agree. But I don't think it's someone's place to explain to a child about anything sexual if their parents haven't. Besides usually parents don't talk to kids about that at such a young age. That's the issue with the gay thing to me and really any moral/religious/belief whatever. Again it gets to the point that it's not your child, it's not your family don't tell me what I should do with my child. My parents explained to me what being gay was, but it was when they wanted to.

        And in this case this family is not religious in any way, but are firm believers in exposing their children to things when they want to.

        • Smilez_920

          I'm not saying she's right for having that conversation with those ppl children. She should have informed the parents that the child asked and then let them handle it.

          But school is different they teach your children about health, chex, and family structure all the time, this is a sort of family structure.

        • Chel

          The thing is the child never asked.

        • CHeeKZ Money

          Did the child spontaneously combust when he found out what gay people are? Did he become sick? Did he stop breathing? Then why do you expect grown folks to base anything in the legal world off the mind of an 8 year old child. The world doesn't revolve around how you want to raise your child, you have to raise your child in this world. Do Vegans expect the US to outlaw eating meat because they don't want to explain why Bambi taste so good? Should schools stop teaching darwin because it makes creationist look like fools?

        • gemmieboo

          LOL @ this response!!! i love it.
          My recent post Religiosity (Part 2): Challenging Faith

        • Chel

          But if you're in my house who the hell are you? That's the point. I don't care what you do in your house, but don't come in mines telling me how to raise my child. That's why this issue is so annoying because you have no right to tell me what I can/cannot teach my child. And the parents are right. No matter how you spin it. They are right that no one coming into their house should be talking about religion, sex, etc. it's not their place. Just like I wouldn't go into someone's house talking about my opinions on being gay. It's not my place unless someone asked.

          And yes the child was freaked out because she's a child that was in the 2nd grade. A child that doesn't know about sex. A child. Not a teenager. Not in middle school. But a little girl. It's inappropriate. No one gets upset when vegans state their opinion. But if you say you don't support gay marriage, being gay etc. all of sudden you hate them. Like I seriously can't even take it.

        • Southerngyrl_

          No one has the right to tell you how to teach your child, but your child will be exposed to all types of things in school, public, private, magnet, etc. So… you can wait until you think it is "safe" but they will find out any old way.

          Gay people been here since forever boo. You teaching your child the "Bible" version won't make them go away. FYI, that moral argument is bs.

        • Chel

          But once again if you're in my house where I pay bills you have no right. I think gov shouldn't interfere with teaching things in school but that's out of my control. But my house? Where I pay bills and I'm paying you to watch my child?? Too far.

        • Southerngyrl_

          And I already said that no one has the right to tell you how to teach your child, didn't I? I also said that try as you might, you cannot regulate everything your child will hear or see outside of your home.

        • Chel

          Right and I understand that you can't control things outside of the home. (But I can have an opinion) And in this example you can't argue that the parents are wrong for being upset. It's silly because it's their house. It's like I'm paying this babysitter to sit and watch movies with my kid while we go to dinner. I come home and I find out you're talking to them about your sexual preference. I mean like really!?

        • http://biggerthomas.wordpress.com/ madscientist7

          there's homosexuality in the bible. do you just skip those passages?

        • Southerngyrl_

          Actually, we generally guess what is in the bible since it has been translated so many times we can't be sure if it is at all accurate. We interpret it a certain way, which actually may not be the way it was intended. That being said, the bible has all types of things in it that are not necessarily applicable in the times we live in, so even if it did say that homesexuality was wrong, would it still be applicable in today's society?

        • http://biggerthomas.wordpress.com/ madscientist7

          i know this and i agree. my point is that there's homosexuality in the bible period. right or wrong. she stated that there's homosexuality in entertainment and my point is that there's always been homosexuality. this is nothing new.
          My recent post Marriage for All…

        • Southerngyrl_

          Ahh, apologies. Your comment showed up as a reply to me. That is why I responded.

        • Chel

          I never said that homosexuality hasn't always been there. Where did I say that??? Please tell me. People have been gay since Genesis in the Bible but God condemned it. I said that it's pushed in the entertainment world in the States. (as well as sex too)

        • Chel

          There is. I've never skipped it. There are also a lot of other things in the Bible that most churches don't teach in the average children's Sunday school class. Kind of like you wouldn't show the Passion of The Christ to a kid. I'm not saying kids shouldn't know about being gay, sex, preferences, etc. but there is a time and place as with anything.

    • gemmieboo

      this type of hetero/straight privilege bothers me.

      whether or not gay marriage is legal won't really impact your life in any way. people are still going to be gay and live their gay lives.

      your child is gonna learn a whole lot about a whole lot at school, on the playground, at a friend house, etc that YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER. you disagreeing with homosexuality (or skinny jeans, tacos locos, or the color razzmatazz) wont change what they are exposed to. the statement you made about the babysitter is discriminatory against gays. had the woman been straight and been talking about a boyfriend been any different? you say the child is too young to know about relationships (if theyre 7 or 8 they already know a bit about them and probably have a "boo" at school you may or may not know about) but it seems you wouldnt blink twice if the person were heterosexual. i could see if you were outraged this person was talking about SEX (which is inappropriate from a gay or straight person), but just mentioning a partner?? cmon…

      all that to say – you're entitled to approve or not approve of whatever you want. but to act as if homosexuals gaining certain legal benefits will some how corrupt your children and take away their innocence before you're ready is ridiculous.
      My recent post Religiosity (Part 2): Challenging Faith

      • Tunde

        whelp.
        My recent post Marriage for All…

      • Chel

        It does impact me if people think I'm HATING them because they are gay when I don't. If I state I don't support it I'm looked at weird. But I have every right to disagree. And I don't think legal benefits will corrupt children as I fully support legal benefits. But I do think that the United States has a huge influence on the entertainment world. When I was living in SA gay marriage was legal. But it was different they don't talk about it in schools, tv it's just legal. Here it's like everywhere and if you disagree you're somehow close-minded.

        And this example of this family is interesting because they do support gay marriage (legal benefits) and they are also not Christians or religious but they are also in favor of smaller government. I'm a Christian, I support full legal benefits for any two people (isn't this the purpose of the LBGT movement?). I don't believe in gay marriage. I know a couple of people that are gay and married. And I'm also in favor of the government not intervening on moral controversial issues.

        • Southerngyrl_

          So… segregation, interracial marriage and abortion are not controversial issues? Picking and choosing…

        • Chel

          I personally think abortion is wrong but I don't think it's the governments place to decide that because it's a moral issue. People will have different views. But if it's going to happen I'd rather it be done professionally…it's hard to decide mainly because of this but it definitely is controversial especially on a moral level. I would also say gun control in my opinion is another one.

        • http://biggerthomas.wordpress.com/ madscientist7

          " But I do think that the United States has a huge influence on the entertainment world. When I was living in SA gay marriage was legal. But it was different they don't talk about it in schools, tv it's just legal."

          i'm sorry but you lost me here. are you saying "gay marriage" is everywhere including television or homosexuality period? either way if its ubiquitous then your original point is mute. your child will be exposed to homosexuality regardless. whether or not we have civil unions or full marriages.

          "I support full legal benefits for any two people (isn't this the purpose of the LBGT movement?). I don't believe in gay marriage."

          what you are doing is trying to push your personal beliefs on others. who are you to say what someone does in their relationship?

        • Chel

          So because I don't agree I'm pushing my belief on others? Even though I believe it's fine for two people to have legal benefits? That implies that my religious values don't hold any value and that they don't matter. I don't agree with a whole lot of things such as sex before marriage, but am I pushing that belief on others? I don't believe people should bomb other countries but there are people that do believe that. Am I pushing my belief on them….like where does it stop? Why can't I have an opinion/belief?

          And to your above comment I mean in the States homosexuality is pushed more in television etc. And they will be exposed but probably not on pbs, disney, etc.

        • http://thatswhatgemsaid.wordpress.com Gem

          sweetie i can read – you dont agree with homosexuality but you are ok with them having legal rights. i got it! we all got it!!

          you may not HATE gays but you damn sure are discriminatory. gays can have these rights but just NOT be gay out loud. for fear that if your child sees hears or smells them it might interfere with your teachings. sure they can have civil unions but dont let the media represent them on tv!!! dont let them talk about their “partner” around my hild because my child will be scared and helpless and unable to cope! an pleeeeeease sont let them be seen holdin hands in publc while my child is in eye range. thats just effing RIDICULOUS.

          you never responded to my comment about straigh talking about their partners. and i bet its because the convo you mentioned with this child had NOTHING to do with sex – youre upset cuz the person mentioning their partner was gay. and you keep stating this family had an issue but support gay marriage and arent Christian. perhaps theyre as illogical as you or they didnt really have a problem. why would a child be freaked out about a girl havig a girlfriend? unless she was taught to fear that?? and to be taught to fear that.

          the world is so much bigger than you and your beliefs. you are entitled to them and to teach them to your children. but your argument has holes and thats why ppl come for you – whether or not you “support” gays legal woes.

        • Chel

          The parents were upset. The child was upset because she didn't know. And if it's ridiculous then I guess most religions would be discriminatory. And I didn't say my child will be scared I said that it's not another person's place. (Especially at such a young age) And like I said in previous comments marriage equality from my understanding is about legal rights. That's mainly what the post is about so I have no idea why my views on being gay is an "issue"…but whatever.

    • http://biggerthomas.wordpress.com/ madscientist7

      found this link very appropriate:
      http://onlylolgifs.net/post/48932616489/louis-ck-
      My recent post Marriage for All…

  • niksmit

    I support marriage equality at the federal level. I believe one of the gay couples I know of might be legal somehow, but I'm not sure. My mom's family accepts/tolerates my out cousins, so I assume I'd be accepted as well. I'm not sure about my father's family.

  • Uncle Hugh, BP

    Do you believe in marriage equality at the state or federal level?

    Yes. State and federal government should not recognize any marriage, straight or gay. Which is why we have this issue in the first place.

    Do you know any gay married couples or couples in civil unions?

    Yes.

    Do you think your family and loved ones would accept you if you happened to be gay or come out the closet?

    They would reluctantly, but I believe they would.

  • Uncle Ray

    The point of what children see and hear about homosexuality and how it will convert them is ridiculous. If your kid see Mr. Johnson and Mr. Johnson hugging on their front porch and come home and say I wanna suck a d*ck too. Believe it was already in them.
    After being married (wife) for many years, if you want to suck it up and drag it out with someone (bad day), your life, your business.

  • h.h.h.

    "Do you believe in marriage equality at the state or federal level? Do you know any gay married couples or couples in civil unions? Do you think your family and loved ones would accept you if you happened to be gay or come out the closet?"

    it's not something that i personally believe. that being said, if it is the will of the people, there should be a federal bill/law passed to have gay marriage legalised in all 50 states (unless folks want to go piecemeal and get it done state by state). and i think it will be settled (relatively) soon…2014 or 2016.

  • Southerngyrl_

    Answer to the questions in the post…
    Yes, yes and yes.

    I love my family. I really do. I don't base my happiness off their acceptance.

    I never liked the religious based explanations, because usually it involves a myriad of hypocrisy where people pick and choose what they believe the Bible is saying. Then I get into an entirely different conversation about the validity of the Bible (different conversation for a different day).

    The definition and perspective of marriage has evolved over time and will continue to do so. The ancient Greeks and Romans had their own view and so did the Hebrews. From what I can gather, marriage started incorporating religious elements around medieval times, so the first marriages had little to do with religion or God.

    I think once you get to the point where you realize that no one is choosing to be gay, it gets easier to accept. There are folks who still believe you can choose, especially some church goers. They think that as long as he or she isn't "actively participating" in homosexual activities, then they will get into heaven. Some bs like that…I have heard it all.

    The thing is…I didn't wake up one day and choose to be straight. It is how I was born. I believe this is how God made me. If I can believe that, why wouldn't I believe that God created gay people too?

    • Laney

      Rad.

      I learned to stop doing Bible debates a long time ago. I have put in too much time and effort to understand the Bible as a historical piece of work to argue with people who are simply reciting what the man on the pulpit told them without ever doing any research or digging themselves.

      But I totally feel you on the picking and choosing. I love when people try to play the Leviticus card to condemn homosexuality. Leviticus is a slauterhouse. There is a scripture to get every relative in your family condemned and killed. How people try to make a case to condemn homosexuality with Leviticus is beyond me. And I am still waiting for someone to show me a reference to homosexuality in red lettering. I feel like if it was that big of a deal, Jesus might have mentioned it. But ya know, maybe He forgot or something…

      It use to bother me when people said things like "if they choose that lifestyle." I talked with my best friend about it whom is gay and asked how he remained so 'calm.' The comments didn't seem to phase him. And he responded with "the same way you are black and you are able to laugh at most racist comments. You get used to it. You accept the ignorance and live your life anyway."

      Enjoyed the post. Waiting for my best friend to get married. I know it will be a great wedding. Full of love and thankfully accepting parents and family.

  • MaggK

    Saying "i don't agree with you being gay, but i tolerate you" is all kind of wrong…
    Imagine someone telling you "i don't agree with you being a woman, but i tolerate you" / "I don't agree with you being black, but i tolerate you"
    Miss me with that argument… It's like you don't even accept that you're homophobic!!!

    • Smilez_920

      True. It’s like saying" I don't agree but I'll tolerate it, only if it's done to my liking " is different than , I don't agree but I accept this is who you are even if what you do doesn’t align with what I do".

    • h.h.h.

      playing devil's advocate. apologies in advance.

      do you have to have full acceptance of someone's totality in order to acknowledge them?

      i mean…if people are trying to do the whole 'live and let live'…how is homophobic to say "i believe in marriage between a man and woman, but hey do you cuz"?

      i think that's where the whole "just because i disagree, doesn't make me evil" line of logic is coming from.

      i mean truth be told, i probably work with folks that are undercover discriminatory towards black folk…but so long as they keep their mouth shut, and aren't affecting my check…should i sue them for racism?

      • MaggK

        Your coworkers will never say to you "i don't like the fact that you're black but i tolerate you"… They will just keep it to themselves, because they know it's racist!!!
        But somehow when it comes to gay people i don't understand why people feel very comfortable saying out loud all kind of sh*ts: "i don't like you" / "i disagree with your nature" / "i tolerate you though, just don't kiss your partner in front of me allright?!"… And gay people are supposed to accept that?

        • http://www.pynkkashmere.com pynkkashmere

          I agree with you. People need to keep their opinions to themselves. Let gays marry and give them the same rights as straight people.
          My recent post No New Friends

  • langwichartz

    This subject is soon to fall in line with the religion and politics arenas that most people refuse to discuss with everyone. Too many emotion-based, subjective views…we have to get to a place where we can have and objective, intelligent convo about this and other hot button topics. We should be able to disagree without being disagreeable.

    We have to respect each others views whether right or wrong.

    Query: Is gay a state of being or who you choose to have sex with?

    • SheenaB

      ALL OF THIS!

    • Mr. B

      All depends on who you ask I guess. Tho I'd say state of being. I have physical responses to men. My brain has been wired to operate that way since puberty. I dated girls all through high school because that's what society told me I was supposed to do. It wasn't until I was 16/17 that I finally realized "Hey, I'm going through these motions but… I don't really want to sleep with these chicks."

      I knew I responded to masculine attributes on men. It was a VERY confusing time in my life. So to answer your question, if I randomly fell into a sexual moment with a woman (or 2… or 10), but I still WANT men, I'd say I was gay. That's just my line of thinking. It's really too subjective to come to a real conclusion imo.

  • Jelly

    I am genuinely surprised when people acknowledge that being gay is NOT a choice, but don't "agree" w/ the lifestyle that comes with it. "I get that you were born that way, but that doesn't mean you should do anything like that." Really? Try that argument for heterosexuals & see how that goes. "I understand that you were born straight, that's not your fault. However, the fact that you would want to have sex w/, marry, or raise children w/ the type of person you are naturally attracted to is offensive & downright disgusting." That doesn't make any sense.

    & anyone who suggests that it is biologically "natural" to want to have sex w/ someone of the opposite sex & reproduce for self-preservation, come on. Human beings are complex creatures influenced by their intelligence & culture. We drink alcohol & drive, use equipment that pollutes our air, and someof us decide not to procreate. We are driven by more than just biological instinct.

  • Devontay

    Marriage is a contract in the eyes of the law so if so then anybody of sound mind should be able to get married in the eyes of the law. If you want people to except you that’s a different story. We are all equal in the eyes of the law so a adult should be able to marry how they want legally there’s no argument to be my made.

  • langwichartz

    Okay I will attempt to ask an honest biological question. Why does it seem like the MAJORITY of every other sexually designated species refrain from homosexual activity. Before the swords come out I'm aware of exceptions this my emphasis on majority. I'm sincerely trying to be educated on this matter so please miss me with the hate and attacks.