Why Nice Guys Finish Last And Always Will

black-couple-on-a-date

So let me say first, hoping that I’m speaking/writing within some invisible, online no-judgment zone, that I have dated every flavor of thug — the sensitive thug, the angry thug, the quiet storm (just like WBLS in every way) and after a period of being young and dumb, I decided to get it together and search for a nice guy.

Of course, this took a lot of self-reflection, reading, praying and drunken nights with my sister circle but soon I started dating “nice” guys. These were educated dudes who came from two parent households, with good jobs and 401Ks, who liked to go to Red Rooster and Harlem Tavern and any number of other hipster locations for people of color, where we eat filleted shit and pureed shit and talk about what he does, which is being amazing 24/7.

So why did I find myself nicely sneaking out of second dates with nice guy after nice guy?

I started thinking and then it hit me— it’s not me, it’s y’all, nice guys. (Well, it’s all of us, but you know what I mean.)

So, I’m going to share a little wisdom, perhaps explaining why some of you have been finishing last, with this nice girl and probably a slew of other pretty fabulous chicks, as well.

  1. Nice guys don’t really know what they want.

A thug will tell you he wants you within the first five minutes of meeting you.

It will be clear that you are of value and he would do any number of things — legal and illegal, right and wrong— to prove to you that you’re worth hanging onto.

A nice guy…has other things on his plate.

He hasn’t just got work, he’s got a career. He hasn’t just got school; he’s got his educational future. And he hasn’t just got the homies and the fam; he’s got his parents, his coworkers, friends and kids at the community center where he volunteers.

And don’t get me wrong, I want my man to do all this. I just want to know I’m at the top of the heap.

If you’re looking for a relationship with me, when I say my train hasn’t come for an hour and I’m stuck in Queens, you don’t tell me you’ve got a big project in the morning, you throw on your basketball shorts and you come get me.

Get the picture?

  1. Nice guys are shy. 

If you’ve ever watched a chick flick, they’re all pretty much the same.

Guy kind of falls in love with girl, life gets in the way, they reunite somehow and the time is right, he gets it together and professes his love to her andddd… BAM! happily ever after.

The part of that that’s complete fiction and bullshit is the part where this wonderful woman is still single after you waited to “reunite.”

If she’s worth it, she’ll probably have moved on to someone who can tell her how important she is up front (see #1). So, don’t be a jerk about it but tell her, as kindly, genuinely and as soon as possible. If you’re really a nice guy, she’ll take notice.

  1. Guys who use the phrase “nice guys finish last” aren’t really nice guys.

They’re dejected guys who want an excuse for their lack of success in relationships. That was harsh but hear me out.

Guys who use this phrase frequently— and not just on a bad day after a breakup— are guys who would rather say that women are too stupid, too caught up on bad boys to make logical choices. They’re guys who would rather blame the world then take responsibility.

They’d rather turn into the assholes they despise (and kind of admire) in an effort to meet women, or get over being dumped a few times, than sticking to the character of their convictions and be good guys.

They’re also guys who will probably get dumped over and over again if the kindness they show women is contingent on whether or not a large volume of women like them… Because that’s just not nice.

  1. Who cares if you’re finishing last?! This is not a competition.

There’s no such thing as success in relationships, so you might as well get over rejection.

I learned this after I spent my sixteenth birthday laying on my bed, looking at my hand-me-down phone, wondering if it was broken or if the guy I gave my number to at that party just wasn’t going to call. Of course, it stung. Almost ten years later, rejection still stings but I buck up and I let it go.

Truth is, if it doesn’t work for one party, whether or not that party is you, it ain’t working.

Relationships are linear, they’re not fucking venn diagrams or flow charts.

Your journey to a relationship is like getting in a moving van with the intention of moving to a new city. It’s all well and good that you stopped in Indianapolis but if the point of your trip is to move to LA, it doesn’t really matter if no one there liked you does it?

It also doesn’t matter if it takes you four weeks to get to LA. If you could afford a plane ticket to Indianapolis or you could take weeks to drive cross country to LA, would you just cop the plane ticket and move there because it would be faster?

…. Yeah, finishing “first” in the relationship “race” is just like that.

  1. Being polite and flashing your Colgate smile is not the same as being legitimately, honestly, heartwarmingly kind. Get it straight.

I recently went on a date with a man whose name I won’t mention, who was an incredibly successful ad guy, went to top schools for both his undergraduate and post-grad degrees and took me to a trendy little restaurant where he helped me pick my wine. We shared a cab home instead of walking or taking the subway, even though it was about 20 blocks there. He told me I was pretty and smart a bunch of times, he paid. He made me laugh.

Nice date right?

Yeah, it was a nice date but he wasn’t a nice guy. He was a polite guy with money, who was going to have the cab driver drop him off first. He was going to leave the anonymous driver of the anonymous town car with the responsibility of seeing me into my apartment, when the anonymous driver isn’t the one trying to test out a relationship with me.  He also could have walked the 20 blocks with me, enjoyed the night air and my company, gotten a legitimate hug at the end of the date.

He talked about his job all night. He gave the stank eye to our waitress every time she approached the table. If you can’t even be polite to the people who serve your food, that’s the first sign you’re acting when it comes to me.

I’m happy to know he thinks I’m pretty and smart but I felt like I was applying for a job and he was checking off qualifications. He didn’t ask me a single thing that would prompt a story about my life or experiences. So though, I had a nice pricey glass of wine and a nice cab ride home, I kind of missed my ex at the end of it all. The kind of parochial guy who would’ve taken me to my door and laughed at my story about tripping up the stairs in sandals that were too big, or that time I killed a bug on my forehead and didn’t notice all day.

My longwinded point is this—relationships are about compatibility.

A woman wants to feel like you genuinely want her and would do anything for her—but you can’t fake the funk. It’s not a race or a competition— it’s a stage in your life, so take your time and do it right.

Don’t be a “nice guy.” Be your kind, genuine, wonderful self and take the time to meet your match.

Celeste Little

Celeste is a single, black female New Yorker. A Syracuse University alum, she has returned to the big city to be a writer. Celeste has written for TheRoot.com, The Jersey Journal, Waterfront Weekly, and is currently the executive editor of Ocaelo.com: The Blog Collective for Metropolitan America’s Young and Colorful. 
 
Twitter: @ocaelo | Blogs: www.celestelittle.com and www.ocaelo.com

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  • langwichartz

    "My longwinded point is this–relationships are about compatibility."

    Truer words could never be spoken!

  • http://www.greaterunderstanding.net Anthony Brian Logan

    Seems like you get along with the "thug" type guy better. The type of guy who doesn't have any responsibilities that he tends to and can come throw on his balling shorts then come get you at the drop of a dime. It also seems like you equate "nice guy" with "a guy with alot of money that has a job and came from a two parent household who is not as aggressive as the "thug""

    Seems like a myopic view of men in general if you ask me. And you seem lost in a fantasy world. The so called thugs you dated have good qualities to them and so do the good guys. If the good guys didnt have good qualities then why would you go on date #1? There will be flaws in every person you meet… dating or no dating. You going to have to accept some flaws and it's simple as that. If not, then thats on you for real. Can't blame the guys that YOU chose to go out on dates with.
    My recent post NEW SLAVES

    • Adonis

      @Anthony Brian Logan

      Yea, he/she is about to get that work.

  • langwichartz

    (White Eddie Murphy voice) Where's the spoon… A HA!!!! *waives finger*

  • http://Www.twitter.com/MOTRisque Adonis

    @Ms. Celeste Little

    Preface

    Before I rant, I want to thank you, specifically for being honest, & for the person ( if I had to guess, Streetz greenlit this ) who gave the go ahead for you, to have a platform to speak on this site.

    ———–

    I love the nice guy/bad boy conversation, because it goes into so many things when it comes to the modern state of intraracial/interracial black relationships.

    Let’s get started.

    ——–

    [1.]

    The fact that you are even considering a nice guy, shows your dating failure on YOUR part.

    If you’re looking for a relationship with me, when I say my train hasn’t come for an hour and I’m stuck in Queens, you don’t tell me you’ve got a big project in the morning, you throw on your basketball shorts and you come get me.

    If this type of dude is so great for you, why are you even considering any other options. That is a BIG FAIL right there.

    Even if he is in prison now, shouldn’t you be “holding him down” right now? Where is the loyalty?

    ———-

    [2.]

    They’d rather turn into the assholes they despise (and kind of admire) in an effort to meet women, or get over being dumped a few times, than sticking to the character of their convictions and be good guys.

    They’re also guys who will probably get dumped over and over again if the kindness they show women is contingent on whether or not a large volume of women like them… Because that’s just not nice.

    Why is it when a woman treats a man poorly (aka the Tuna Sandwich with feces & blood) despite the fact the said man did what he was “supposed” to do & then the man responds in kind, all of a sudden, he is not really a nice guy because he doesn’t accept poor treatment properly.

    B***h eat a Gonorrhea d**k!

    And then juxtapose that, to the MEN who treat WOMEN poorly, & do very well with women (educated or uneducated, hoodrat-ish or Michelle Obama)

    And then you expect a “nice guy” NOT to make the proper adjustments?

    B***h, I am trying to get in that sweet little NANI of yours! F**k character.

    Madness!

    Men come to the conclusion at some point in their lives, that if they want to be with a specific type of girl, they have to cater to the image of the type of guy THAT those type of girls check for.

    ———

    [3.] When women talk about their dislike for nice guy, you lowkey justify the actions feminists claim to be against….

    • You justify why it is okay for men to be verbally abusive & beat up on a woman when provoked. Aka Domestic Violence.

    When I was a nice guy (22 and younger), I would never in my wildest dreams think it was okay to speak to women harshly & definitely not beat them to a pulp.

    But then, when I see & hear & read about the men, who women love, defend, stay with, & THROW AWAY THEIR LIVES FOR, I realized I needed to make a change (talkin’ bout the “Man In The Mirror” ninja).

    So, in my relationships with women now, I believe with pure conviction in beating a woman’s azz ONE good time, like I am trying to KILL HER, to let her know with great clarity, that it is NOT a game.

    If that does not set her straight, I just break up with her.

    • You justify why it is okay for men have children indiscriminately with women & be absent or inadequate in their children’s lives.

    Because being a good father & husband is not valued among (black) women like yourself, in turn, your kids suffer for your toxic mentality. And you are well on your way to becoming another dusty single (black) mom.

    • You justify why men are hold (extreme) sexist views. And treat women like children

    Because at the end of the day. Women are the ones who want masculine men , whether in its positive or negative form. That generates the inequality that women fake-claim to be upset

    That equality argument it bullsh*t. Because women don’t want to be held responsible for anything that goes wrong.

    ——————–

    [4.] You justify why chivalry is dead

    @Ms. WildFlower asked the question on her blog days ago (I like her, so check her out on WhatYouAllow dot com ), and it is amazing how clueless women are about what is going on with their men.

    Why would I want to spend any money or take you seriously as a girlfriend or wife, when I can have you pay for everything, just treat you like sh*t, leave you in shambles with children, and you will still have my back anyway.

    Madness!

    ———–

    [5.]

    Nice guys are shy.

    I learned this after I spent my sixteenth birthday laying on my bed, looking at my hand-me-down phone, wondering if it was broken or if the guy I gave my number to at that party just wasn’t going to call. Of course, it stung. Almost ten years later, rejection still stings but I buck up and I let it go.

    This is why I am pro-s*xual harassment. Because when men stop being aggressive & go for what they want, women b*tch & moan that men are not “men” anymore.

    Nah, you are just being an ungrateful b***h. Have some f**kin gratitude about yours.

    That is what happens when you get things without earning it (beauty & s*xual opportunities)

    —————–

    [6.]

    A nice guy…has other things on his plate.

    He hasn’t just got work, he’s got a career. He hasn’t just got school; he’s got his educational future. And he hasn’t just got the homies and the fam; he’s got his parents, his coworkers, friends and kids at the community center where he volunteers.

    And then you turn around & complain later about men who don’t have their finances/priorities in order & in turn always want to stay in the house.

    Being that you are the same age as me, I doubt this POV is going to hold true when you turn 27, 30, 35, 40. And things need to get done.

    Otherwise, I expect you to make over 150K, and foot the bill for everything.

    But now, I don’t want to hear s**t about “broke men” who live with their parents.

    ————————————

    In conclusion, I say all that to say this.

    I am not the police. I want women to date whomever your heart inspires & whomever gets that p***y wetter than a girl at a Plies concert.

    But you have to take full responsibility for the outcome of that relationship.

    You cannot complain about

    • Broke Ninjas

    • Deadbeat dads

    • Violence Against Women

    • Men who give you STIs

    • Men who are players with high body counts

    • Men who lack romance & chivalry

    Black women, you got the men you always wanted. Stop complaining.

    And for the “nice” black guys who have something going for you, this is a wake up call to pack up shop and go get you the prettiest non-black female you can get your hands on. It won’t be perfect & it may not work out.

    Because It is better to SHOOT for the STARS & LAND in the MUD, than to SHOOT for the MUD & MAKE IT.

    Good Day Gentlemen.

    Super Saiyan To The End

    • Deanna

      I hate bitter black guys like you always preaching interracial relationships and making all black women out to be bad. I hope when you get your white woman she shows you what a real gold digger is and I hope she has the klan come and hang your black ass from a tree.

      • http://Www.twitter.com/MOTRisque Adonis

        I hate bitter black guys like you always preaching interracial relationships and making all black women out to be bad. I hope when you get your white woman she shows you what a real gold digger is and I hope she has the klan come and hang your black ass from a tree.

        Well Damn!!! Even Keisha Brown don’t wish death upon me, and I give her that work.

        @DeAnna.

        I did a page search of this article, and the word “white” only appeared four times

        One was about Beyoncé, and the rest appeared in the comment section (you, Southerngyrl_ & langwichartz.

        So, that is telling because you confirm what most black men are accused of. You are self-hating & you have a complex about whiteness.

        Most black men like women of color. And I told a specific group of black men to go non-black.

        Basically telling them to AVOID, American Black Women and her derivatives.

        Not only western white women are included in that, Latina women, AFRICAN women, Brazilian women, Asian women (who can also be dark skin & beautiful)

        This is not about being bitter.

        This is about sizing up your life as a black male in a society that hates you & wants to undermine your progress & make the best decision for you & yours. Black women unfortunately are more enemy than ally.

        And another thing. Black women make THEMSELVES look bad. I am just the messenger! That is for another post.

        • Deanna

          I'm self hating and have a complex about whiteness, that's beyond laughable.

          You told the black guys that have something going for themselves to date "non-black", I have a serious problem with that. Why should ALL American black women have to date he drudges of our society or be alone?

          In America, that does only include white women and non-black Latinas. The men hopping on your bandwagon aren't checking for any woman who looks black at all.

          Clearly you are bitter, if you're spouting that nonsense.

          Quit crying, we all have issues. Black women aren't the enemy, but of course you've been thoroughly trained to think so and the brainwashing worked.

          Those few women on television don't count for all black women in America. Also, we don't need another shitty messenger that just wants to point out the problems, laugh, and walk away. We've had more than enough news stories to tell us about ourselves.

        • http://Www.twitter.com/MOTRisque Adonis

          @DeAnna

          I’m self hating and have a complex about whiteness, that’s beyond laughable.

          Remember, YOU were the one that brought up the beautiful, infallible white woman with the blonde hair blowing the wind. Not I.

          You also wished & hoped for my lynching. But we’ll let that slide for now.

          You told the black guys that have something going for themselves to date “non-black”, I have a serious problem with that.

          You’ll get over it.

          Why should ALL American black women have to date he drudges of our society or be alone?

          Let’s recap.

          • You brought up the Beautiful White Women.

          • Now, we are getting into the insecure Professional Victim Black Woman politics.

          Remember this post is about Nice Guys finishing last. But you wanna go left.

          I encourage Black women to date white men every chance I get

          , because unlike Black men, when black women date out, they find the pinkest peen they can find.

          If you are a childless, fit, early twenties lightskint black woman with a little bit of charm, you are one of the most sought after women in American society.

          At your best, you have a decent dating pool.

          Nobody even suggested that you date losers.

          That came from YOUR keyboard!

          In America, that does only include white women and non-black Latinas. The men hopping on your bandwagon aren’t checking for any woman who looks black at all.

          @DeAnna, why you so thirsty for men that don’t want your black azz.

          You have men of any races that would trip over themselves to get with your black azz,

          But you focused on the dudes that check for non-black women. Which is a small minority of black men.

          Please go get you an orgasm, and comeback with a level head.

          Clearly you are bitter, if you’re spouting that nonsense.

          I beat my d*ck alot, and I love me some JetPack Joyride. But whatever. 8-)

          Quit crying, we all have issues. Black women aren’t the enemy, but of course you’ve been thoroughly trained to think so and the brainwashing worked.
          Those few women on television don’t count for all black women in America.

          Good BW are highly valuable creatures who have men trying to get with them all over the place.

          But there are a lot of bad apples in the black female community that you refuse to acknowledge.

          Also, we don’t need another shitty messenger that just wants to point out the problems, laugh, and walk away. We’ve had more than enough news stories to tell us about ourselves.

          You mean like Tommy Sotomayor. Lol

          Get over yourself @DeAnna. And PLEASE get laid.

        • TheseWords

          Wow. That is the craziest thing I've seen you post. Dude, if you're serious then you might need to do some serious self reflecting because this shows that you have some deep seated issues. And I don't condone violence from either gender!

    • Hairbear_FLL

      Did you just admit to beating women…. I'm not sure if I read that correctly.

      • http://Www.twitter.com/MOTRisque Adonis

        @HairBear_FLL

        Basically I said I will beat up a woman one good time to send a message. Not something I look forward to. And only for emergencies.

        I knew someone would key in on that. congrats!

        • Hairbear_FLL

          That is THE craziest thing I have ever seen you put on here.

          I urge you not to do so in the future. If you feel that a woman is trying to push you, then just walk away. That should be a dead giveaway that that woman is not for you. So if she hits you, turn the other cheek and leave her.

          I do not know you, however that also speaks into a deep inner rage and insecurity for a man to even think of putting hands on a woman intentionally. I do not support hitting by either parties.

          Just my two cents.

        • http://Www.twitter.com/MOTRisque Adonis

          @HairBear_FLL

          I don’t live in your world, you don’t live in mine.

          And I always side eye someone who stress not to hit women intentionally.

          And violence against men is a footnote.

          If a woman hits me, I am putting my foot all the way in that azz.

          I think you need an example

          Women like the idea that a guy has the capacity to commit violence so….

        • Deanna

          Okay, let’s rap this up.

          1. I never said anything about a beautiful infallible white woman. Your words not mine.
          2. You’re right, I actually prefer hispanic men anyway so I’m going to make sure I hop the fence right away. Thank you, you have helped me to see the light.
          3. I wish men would quit trying to tell women they need to “get laid”. You forget we don’t have to work hard for sex. I’ll leave it at that.

        • Lyric

          some women do like tht sh*t it’s true;I see it all the time

    • Furious Styles

      "So, in my relationships with women now, I believe with pure conviction in beating a woman's azz ONE good time, like I am trying to KILL HER, to let her know with great clarity, that it is NOT a game. "

      You were lightweight making sense up to that point, and then you lost me….

      • http://Www.twitter.com/MOTRisque Adonis

        @Furious Styles

        Skip over it, and keep reading, not for the faint of heart.

    • 12 Point Buck

      "this is a wake up call to pack up shop and go get you the prettiest non-black female you can get your hands on."

      That could be an option for some, but I really do prefer the beauty of the black woman. I'd sooner find me an Ethiopian or Somali chick to wife up. I think a lot of the issues you have really just apply to western women in general.

      Nowadays, more and more American women come of age not even knowing how to cook a meal or take in a shirt. And will get an attitude if you expect them to assume a traditional gender role. I blame post-modern feminism.

      • http://Www.twitter.com/MOTRisque Adonis

        @12 Point Buck

        My point is, do what is best for you. Finding a good western black woman is a low prob crap shoot.

        You might luck up & find an all around great amer black woman to mate with, but you have kiss a lot of frog in 2013, you might even have to take another man’s broad.

        Good day

    • Orion Trufant

      Thank you Adonis!!! Even though i've heard/read it at least 100x everytime feels like the 1st. Black men, we HAVE TO LEAVE DUMB BLACK WOMEN to rot with the thugs. Lets look at it spiritualy! Maybe GOD is trying to tell black men something. If 97% of our women have chosen to exault the only type of man out there that does the sh#t they complain about on these blogs and magazines what do you think the creator is trying to tell us? THESE H**S aint S**T. Its like a crystal meth addict complaining about tooth loss when they know thats the side effect, and still smoking! Its black women out here that dont think that way but its not because they wised up its because they burnt out, FUCK B***HES GET GOD!!!!

  • Brother Truth

    I think you don't know what you want!! The nice guy could have done all the things the thug did and you still would be complaining!! First of all you can't generalize all guys in your groups!! No one fits in the little box you put us in!! Guys are a mix of all those types you came up with!! I my self often say I am a Nice guy with bad boy flavor!! That means I will tell you what I want, respect you and protect you!! Won't take any crap from anyone!! Still help young people in the community! You will be number one above all if you deserve it!! If your Not self absorbed and materialistic!! That's what some brothers feel who are Nice Guys!! Peace I hope you find your perfect guy!! Have a Blessed day!!

    • http://singleblackmale.org MR 2 cents ($0.02)

      Exactly!!! @brother truth. Women kill me trying to classify so many of us brothers as some kinda thug!! That irritates me at times. We're grown men…not thugs!
      My recent post Why Nice Guys Finish Last And Always Will

  • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

    Theres compatibility, and theres non trusting. Being a “nice guy” isnt an act or character its who you are deep down, you’re issue is you clearly have preconceived notions of what a man is supposed to be (and by your interpretations, not much) and anyone who strays from that stereotype, you’re not here for it. Your type appears to be someone who will sweat you, you find yourself “backing out” of dates because you need to feel some sense of leverage over a stand up brotha who has more to him than tryna get you out them vickies.

    • i_stan_for_no_one

      for some guys being a "nice guy" is an act. i dated a guy like that. he was constantly reminding me of how much of a "nice guy" and good catch he was, when he was in fact quite selfish and inconsiderate. i think those are the guys that the author is addressing. if you are a genuine nice guy, it doesn't really apply to you. its those who have a sense of entitlement that are the issue. The same goes for women. There are women and men out there who think just because on paper they fit the profile of a good partner – educated, monogamous, good job etc. that they can demand the world. it doesn't work that way. you can be smart, educated, monogamous and still be a mean and selfish person.

      like the author said, be yourself and don't put on an act.

  • Smilez_920

    There are something’s I agree with.

    1) a guy that constantly has to blame ” being a nice guy” as the reason women aren’t flocking to him, is probably a low key jerk and doesn’t realize it.

    2) this is definitely not a competition but a journey. Learn from the journey and appreciate the destination.

    3) women want to feel wanted. There’s nothin like knowing your man wants you/ is down for you 100%.

    Overall I don’t think it’s about being a thug or a nice guy . I mean thugs try to flash cash ( bottles , red bottoms , name brand clothes ) to woo women. I think it’s about two things

    1) the mans personality and values.

    2) if he’s actually into you. If those ” nice guys ” are really into you, if your his number one , trust and believe he’s not going to leave you stranded. Thugs act the same way as nice guys do when their dealing with a women who isn’t ” a big deal to them”/ who their genuinely into other than chex.

    Men rearrange , sacrifice , and put other things to the side for the women their into .

    • GirlSixx

      "Men rearrange , sacrifice , and put other things to the side for the women their into ."

      Yes Lawddd!! It's as simple as that..

      Nice guys, shy guys, bad boys, thugs and the like… .

    • balancedlady

      Yea I feel the same way. Every guy can be a nice guy it really just depends on the woman. A man can treat one woman like a dog (thug) and the next like a queen (now he's a nice guy) because he's really enamored with the woman. Every man has it in him to be mean or nice.

      Some men think that women aren't messing with them because they are "too nice" but its really because they are too needy and insecure (not authentic) or like you said a low key jerk.
      My recent post 5 Reasons Men Don't Approach You

  • Southerngyrl_

    Oh wow. The only one I can agree with is #3. This is usually what I think of when I hear this phrase.

    I have only ever dated nice guys and only one was shy. I think you are equating certain personality traits with being a nice guy, and others with being a thug. Very black and white. Nothing in life is ever that simple. The term nice guy is very subjective. Everyone has their own ideas regarding what makes one guy nice and what makes another guy not so nice. Your views on nice guys seem crazy to me. Maybe that has more to do with you than the guys? That last sentence sounded shady as hell, but I am being truthful. Maybe you need to think about why your perception of nice guys fit into such a small box.

    You should add a #6, the nice guy who declares that he is a nice guy.

    But yeah, you can keep the thugs though. I'm good.

  • cancergirl08

    I totally get points 3-5. The moving example is brilliant! I've been rejected but I'm not changing the core of who I am for anyone. Someone who's been married for 40+ years once told me,

    "In order to find someone who will love you for who you are, you have to show them who you really are. Not who they want you to be."

    To be honest, I didn't get it at the time. Then again, I haven't been married to the love of my life for 40+ years either, lol.

    I've also had to learn the difference between A) a genuinely nice person who treats people they need or want something from the EXACT same way they treat someone who will do nothing for them and B) someone who is nice to generate a false sense of intimacy for the purpose of getting something from you.

    As I've gotten older, my intuition has gotten a lot better at snuffing the B guys out. And I"m not just talking about men. I'm talking about friendships, co-workers and even family members. I know this post is about guys, but ALL of us are capable of being manipulative under the guise of "niceness."

    As for some of the comments about the article from the men……

    Men get upset about being put into categories by women and I get it. It irks me when men do that women.

    But guess what? Its not just a men thing or a women thing, its a people thing! We ALL categorize, so I'm over it.

  • SMilez_920

    A lot of things that go on between you (women) and men depend on how “INTO you” a man is. Nice, thug, nerd, old, young, it all based on how much he likes you and where you fall on his priorities list. Yes you can have more than one major priority if you feel it’s worth it.

    Now by no means should a guy go from a prince charming to a complete “a-hole” because he’s not “into you”, a good person is going to treat people with the same genuine courtesy and respect he would want to be treated with. But some of yall just the don’t realize that every man you go out with, entertain and possibly sleep with might not be that into, you may just be something for the moment. Ladies I’m sure you go the extra mile for guys your really into. Same with men, in this scenario the extra mile is getting up, stopping what you doing to get your lady.

  • http://www.singleblackmale.org/author/wisdomismisery/ WisdomIsMisery

    Interesting post. This will be a good jumping point for a post someone asked me to write about on why women continually pass up “nice guys.” For today ill just share what a woman told me once that I keep in mind when dealing with women:

    “If a man expects a lady in the streets and a freak in sheets, a woman expects a gentlemen in the streets and a thug in the sheets.”

    I think this is fair.

    • guest

      Agreed!

    • Roman

      Thanks. Very wise words.

  • Mr. SD

    Its really simple, just be yaself, guy girl dog or turtle, just be you! At the end of the day 'nice" guys win! Thugs win too, its all good. The real winners are the people that love an accept their partner's for who they are..Those are the couples that last forever. I need my future wife to understand i can be a gentleman and jerk all in the same day. If she can deal with that then cool beans.

    • Peter Parker

      I must co-sign here. It's really not that serious. Just be whoever you are. No fronting or anything. If you like reading popular science, then be cool with that. If going to the strip club is your thang, do you. I will never conform to what I think others want. At the end of the day, people are going to be attracted to who they like.

    • Young Heaux

      Best comment. its so simple.

  • Ms. Smart

    Nice guys don't finish last, first, or in the middle. Nice guys finish with nice women. Maybe I am too busy doing my stuff to need a man who isn't busy doing his stuff. But that needing someone to dote on you constantly is why some men end up with certain chicks. Chicks who are happy to be off the pole or who have no aspirations beyond being head teller at the Walmart are awesome for partners who need their ego stroked. *shrug*

    • Southerngyrl_

      See, I don't know about that. I know a few nice guys who ended up with the worst possible women ever. I mean the most shady, greedy, crazy azz heffas ever. I still don't know how it happened, but there they are.

      For your second point, I find that there are some men that definitely need this type of ego stroking woman, but they won't date strippers or head tellers (LOL), though they probably should. Same with women. I have met quite a few women who require A LOT of attention. A LOT. I think it says something about that person when they feel that they need a lot of attention like that in a relationship.

      • Ms. Smart

        I believe men who end up with batty women either didn't do their due diligence from day one, OR excused a lot of crazy and ended up right where they want to be and with who they want to be with. As for strippers and what not, please believe it happens a lot. The thing is, you just don't know she used to dance, sell drugs, etc.

        • Southerngyrl_

          Oh I believe you. I had a person in my mind when I responded. He isn't dating any of the above. Definitely loves em high powered and intelligent. I am not saying he shouldn't date an intelligent woman, but he should probably drop the high powered part of it.

          Both of the first statements are probably true, but it still means a nice guy ended up with a crazy heffa. You can't just be nice. You have to be smart about it. Crazy chicks love nice guys too.

  • cynicaloptmst81

    I'm not sure where I fall with the post. I think, for me, I just don't want a lame guy. You can be nice and all that. Just don't…please, PLEASE…I'm begging you…don't be LAME!

    • cynicaloptmst81

      I went on a date with a guy who had a "I'm not the coolest guy around" look. I was open-minded because our first conversation was pretty cool. But, when we went out, he wanted to talk about China hacking U.S. servers, what's the best credit card to get, and how he was qualified to compliment my nice eyebrows cause he's a "licensed hairstylist"! Sir, CO81 doesn't date male hairstylists. I'm like, "You mean you cut hair?" "Yeah, I cut hair…" "Oh, so you're a licensed barber! Cool! Don't say hairstylist anymore…just say barber." "No, no…but I really am a licensed hairstylist…" and went into an explanation as to why. I tried to help him…and he totally missed my point… -_- Plus, he laughs like Eddie Murphy without being that funny. There was nothing romantic or personal about the date. It felt like I was out with a co-worker! And our subsequent convos have been just as lame. This dude used the phrase "fo shizzle" in 2013!!!! o_O *throws up my hands* I ain't 'em gonna be able to do it!!!!

      • Southerngyrl_

        He complimented your eyebrows? good grief

        • cynicaloptmst81

          Was that sarcasm? LOL. Complimenting my eyebrows is appreciated. Beyond that, there is no need to explain that you are "qualified to compliment them". You don't need qualifications to compliment stuff. And, sorry…say what you want, but I can't see me meshing well with a man who's comfortable referring to himself as a hairstylist. I have admitted on here that I can be superficial. Feel free to use this as evidence, lol.

          Dates should be used to get to know someone. There was nothing personal or "getting to know you-like" about the topics.

        • Southerngyrl_

          No sarcasm. Just think it is odd that a man (straight) compliments eyebrows. I don't know if I could have gotten past that part. I will compliment eyebrows all day, but I am a girl and it is usually because I want to know where the person went to get them done. A man complimenting them just seems…strange.

          Then there is the fact that he called himself a hair stylist and said "fo shizzle".

        • cynicaloptmst81

          He's not the first man to compliment my eyebrows. Actually, many men do. The qualified and hairstylist part through me all the way off though, LOL!

          "Fo shizzle" had me in utter disbelief, LMBO! Unreal…

        • Bree

          Damn Cyn if you got mad dudes complimenting your eyebrows u need to slide me that info on where u getting them done……ijs *smile*

        • cynicaloptmst81

          Bree, I go right in this here good bathroom of mine, lol. I usually hate what other people do to my eyebrows so I do them myself.

      • Mr. SD

        LOL this made my morning..dude was horrible….he was dead serious about his "fo shizzle"??!

        • cynicaloptmst81

          He's not horrible…maybe he just needs a dating coach, lol. Talking about that stuff is fine…but not on our first dang date!!!! Glad you know about it, really I am. But, this is NOT fun, lol.

          Yo, he was DEAD SERIOUS!! LMBO!!! Said it and kept right on rolling with the conversation, LOL! I told my bff and she's been clowning me ever since, smh…answering me with, "oh, fo shizzle!" LOL… I hate her, LOL…

        • WIM

          Pretty sure I said "fo shizzle" last week *frowns*

          I said it hipster-like, ironically that is, but still…

          *promptly removes from lexicon*

        • cynicaloptmst81

          Saying it ironically is fine. But, to be on the safe side, go on and let it go, LMBO!

        • Streetz

          You're fired

        • Larry

          Lmaoooo!

      • http://singleblackmale.org MR 2 cents ($0.02)

        Lmao @cynical!!!!…..give him a break lady. He may have been nervous..just sayn LOL. U should've give him another chance…"fo shizzle" LOL
        My recent post Why Nice Guys Finish Last And Always Will

        • cynicaloptmst81

          Y'all really want me dating a man that thinks its ok to say "fo shizzle" in 2013?! Y'all ain't right!!!

          I haven't quite cut dude off yet. I'm waiting to see if he'll relax a bit. So far, not so good. I'm struggling to hang in there…and I don't wanna struggle to hang in there with a man I'm dating. I just can't see myself enjoying downtime with him. I know who to call when I'm trying to pick my next credit card though, LOL…smh.

        • Mr. SD

          So whats his upside? If you sticking around, he def has an upside..or a insane 6-pack..lol

        • cynicaloptmst81

          Great career. Motivated. Good Dad. Financially savvy. Cute dimples. Pro-education…like really passionate about it.

          No 6-pack. Just naturally slim but not skinny.

          But, relationships are mostly about the downtime…enjoying each other's company. I don't simply want a business arrangement. For a business arrangement only, he'd be awesome!

        • Mr. SD

          lol yea you gotta give dude a shot, he might be corny but thats not a bad upside

        • cynicaloptmst81

          It's not, but I don't think its too much to ask to want to enjoy my man's company. Looking corny is one thing. Looking corny and being corny is waaaaay more than I think I can handle!!!!!

          Maybe I'm being picky. I know I can't have it all but gee whiz! I don't think I'm willing to not want to hang with my man.

      • http://Www.twitter.com/MOTRisque Adonis

        @Cyn81

        he wanted to talk about China hacking U.S. servers,

        8-) ROFLMAFAO

        Clearly I am not as nerdy as I thought I was.

        There might be a nerdy Twitter Honey that might dig that.

        Other than that, he has to expand is romantic skillset. Lol

        • cynicaloptmst81

          LMBO! Now, I check CNN.com just about every day to stay up on things…so I knew what he was talking about. But, dude…not on our date though.

          So, I'm like, "Yeah, I read about it." "Mhmm." "Oh ok." "Really?" "Crazy." "Hmph." "Scary." Showing every subtle "STOP TALKING ABOUT THIS BORING CRAP NOW" sign I could, LOL!

          He needs a dating coach…bad, lol.

      • h.h.h.

        so 'fo shizzle' isn't good to say…ok.

        can i say "word"?

        or "bet"?

        just wanna make sure i don't strike out because i use old phrases lol

        • cynicaloptmst81

          "Word" and "bet" are still ok, lol.

          "Fo shizzle" was more like the straw that broke the camels back, lol. He lost me being lame. Just don't be lame, h.h.h., LOL. Talk about who you are…who she is…what you like…what she likes. Drop in a well-timed funny here and there. Tease her when appropriate (we like that). Hard to drop the ball with that plan, lol.

        • SMilez_920

          lol "Fo Shizzle" … did this man have cornrows ? Was he wearing a 2 piece linen suit with a straw hat? (I can't think of another reason to use Fo shizzle in a serious /regular conversation)

        • cynicaloptmst81

          Naw, but he did rock a button-up with a tee underneath (colored tee, not an undershirt) with jeans and dress shoes (not soft bottoms, lol)!!!!!!

          …I should also mention…he's 33!!!!! Not 43, LOL.

          Like, HOW MUCH am I supposed to look beyond on one dang date?! Girl, I was ready to go to sleep after that date. All that work to be open-minded took everything I had, LMBO!

        • h.h.h.

          ehh.i'm quite lame as it is …i'm toooo farrrr gonnnne lol

        • cynicaloptmst81

          I don't believe you, lol. So, you would've brought up those same topics on your date? I doubt it.

          A grown woman ain't pressed for a man who's still running the street. Nice is good. Nice should STILL have a impeccable conversation game though. It's an art that will take you far.

        • h.h.h.

          i probably wouldn't have…but i ain't that good with the small talk. lol

        • cynicaloptmst81

          I think this is a good time to suggest that the SBM fellas to do an "Art of Conversation" series for men and women who struggle with small talk and such.

          I want you to be ready to win on your next date, h.h.h.!

          *cue Rocky theme music*

        • SMilez_920

          Yes… I think I said it on here, some men don't know how to have a conversation outside of sports. Maybe it's a comfort level thing. Dating can make people nervous, sometimes it's easier to chat it up with people who you already have a basic acquittance with.

          To me part of having good chemistry is being able to talk to each other. We can talk about any subject and it works between us. Maybe he'll find himself a young lady who likes to talk about credit and Chinese spies.

        • cynicaloptmst81

          HOLLERED @ chinese spies!!!!!!!

          Maybe so…cause I'm not so sure this good one is a good match for me. *shrugs*

        • Thriftybynature

          This! I date nice guys pretty much all the time and I don't consider it settling because you wear glasses, aren't fashion forward or are 5'6. But I'll be d*mned if I'm going to sacrifice good convo in looking for a match. It's just painful talking to someone and it feels like pulling teeth.

    • 12 Point Buck

      "i just don't want a lame guy" is like a guy saying "I just dont want a crazy chick"

      The issue is that "lame" and "crazy" are so subjective that you can use them as a reason to dump anybody purely based on whether you approve or disapprove of their actions. It kind of gives you an easy way out of a relationship.

      "Oh, she went through my phone. She's crazy. Next."

      "Oh, he plays video games all day. He's lame. Next."

      • cynicaloptmst81

        I kinda get what you're saying.

        But, for real, both men and women know when a chick/dude is crazy/lame. Is it possible to use it as an excuse? Yup. But "lame" and "crazy" can be reasons as well.

        A chick going through your phone isn't crazy per se…she's a distrustful snoop. A dude playing video games all day could simply be relaxing from a busy week…or he could be a lazy, unmotivated bump on the log. I'd need more details on that to be sure. ;-)

  • larnelw

    Here we go with this "nice guys" tomfoolery again. This post illustrates to me a certain lack of maturity. "Nice Guys finish last" is truly a stupid term. Why? Because "nice guys" is as vague as someone coming up to you and saying "Hey, I heard you are from NY. I know this guy from NY named John. Do you know him?" In case you somehow don't understand my analogy it means its supremely INDESCRIPTIVE. Men are not merely classified as Nice or Bad.
    Self-conscious, shy, timid, weak DOES NOT equal "Nice". Just like Confident, Determined, Strong, Manly, or whatever other adjectives you wish to use to describe your ideal man DO NOT equal "Bad".

  • h.h.h.

    as a nice guy…this was an interesting article. i guess the only point that applies to me, is #2, because i'm not overly extroverted with people i don't know, or random strangers. i've seen/heard many opinions that it would not be in my best interest to randomly approach woman, because it could be taken…ahh..in a wrong way.

    from my first hand experience as one, i do think nice guys finish last, not because of some fault of women, but because essentially, we don't have, what the object of our desires, is attracted to. yeah, we're 'nice'..but what else? being a 'nice guy' and expecting to 'win' at relationships, is somewhat similar to being an 'intelligent woman' and expecting guys to just be gravitated towards that.

    and yes, being a nice guy is like getting in a car and driving towards a destination. Just that you're driving the speed limit and being careful of others, while everyone else is doing 85 in a 55, tailgating, and in general, driving reckless.

    but as i said, i don't fault women for my lack of success. i just do my best to further my interests in thinks that are more beneficial to others. my failures in certain arenas can lead to successes for others. i wish you the best with your search for a non-lame, some-what nice, significant other.
    #Salute

    • WIM

      being a 'nice guy' and expecting to 'win' at relationships, is somewhat similar to being an 'intelligent woman' and expecting guys to just be gravitated towards that.

      This comment is the GOAT.

      • Larry

        +1000

    • cynicaloptmst81

      "and yes, being a nice guy is like getting in a car and driving towards a destination. Just that you're driving the speed limit and being careful of others, while everyone else is doing 85 in a 55, tailgating, and in general, driving reckless."

      My homeboy popped in my head when I read this. This is a great description. My homeboy is not lame though. He's a great conversationalist…very, very funny. More Seinfeld funny than Martin funny…but def funny. He's married and happy.

    • Young Heaux

      If you project the same confidence and self awareness with women as you do in this comment, you're probably at least on your way to winning.

  • http://twitter.com/mpj2k4 @mpj2k4

    I don't think women really get it. To me its like this, you have Beyoncé who is a really nice good woman very respectful and not too over the top and more reserved and Rihanna who is a bit more edgy, lewd and a bad girl. So instead of appreciating both for their beauty, distinct characteristics and individuality, we as men tell women you need to be more like Rihanna than Beyoncé. We define the way Rihanna is built as being a woman and Beyoncé not so much. My point is in women's eyes being shy, non violent, non assertive but super affectionate and nice makes you less than a man than the alternative which isn't fair to the guys that still really care. Again just my opinion though lol.

  • http://twitter.com/inomallday Shamira

    Yeah….I can't cosign this post. Like, at all. I keep insisting that we not treat black women as a monolith so I'm not going to do the same for men. And plus, I don't know this woman from Adam (do you say Eve if its a woman?) , but it sounds like she listened to Destiny Child's "Soldier" a few too many times. I just hope she knows that Stringer Bell is not a real person, lol.

    HOWEVER. I will cosign #3. There's a lot of guys out here claiming "Nice Guy" (TM) that aren't genuinely nice guys. Declaring you're a Nice Guy doesn't make you one. Having proper manners makes you a regular-azz human being. You don't get a cookie just because you said "God Bless You" after I sneezed. And honestly, if you get mad because you were nice to a girl and she didn't offer her v*g up, then guess what??? You aren't actually a nice guy.

    I gotta day job to get back to, so i have to leave it at here for now, but I'll just drop a link that clarifies my point, save for one or two things.
    http://www.buzzfeed.com/hnigatu/13-reasons-why-ni

    • MaggK

      "she listened to Destiny Child's "Soldier" a few too many times"
      I just died!!! LMAO!

  • payne well

    I'm sure every guy thinks they are a good/nice guy just like every woman thinks she is a good woman. In this equation the whole "I think, therefore I am" sentence does not work. When people talk about a good guy, they think it's the socially awkward, nerdy fellow, uncharismatic man who has a heart of gold and works hard, but just doesn't have luck with the ladies… NEGATIVE. A good guy is a good guy because of his actions. You see, when you look at the stereotypical "good guy", even those characteristics translated to a female would be undesirable. To me, Good guys are the following:

    Honest even if it's hard
    means what they say, and say what they mean
    Can take care of themselves, financially
    mindful of their actions

    etc etc etc I could go on and on with a characteristics of a "good guy", but what it boils down to, is that you know a good guy based upon the actions he displays. He can be very charming and still be a "good guy".

    My recent post Practice what you preach!

  • ughgrowup

    Sounds like you need to revisit this subject in another 5 years. Give yourself some time to figure out who you are before you start telling a man who they should be for you.

  • http://Presice.blogspot.com Pre

    Interesting article.. Very insightful in a few areas. Speaking as a guy whose been on both sides of the fence let me say, when I was in that thug phase my life was lived more at risk so loyalty and a “ride or die” female is what was necessary so she was first in my life but how genuine or circumstantial is that?. As I matured to more accomplished things I began to see my worth and “narcissism hit”. Some where in the teaching of my mother “a woman chooses the man” I began to be that dude who on dates rambled about how great of a dude I am and a girl would be crazy if she didn’t see this greatness.. I then began to be labeled cocky, self centered and arrogant, very much of an asshole. I thought I was being a nice guy! Lol.. I’m a guy that desires success for me more than I do a successful relationship at this point so until I reach the space I desire I don’t think I can put her at the top of the heap, nor do I need to be at the top of hers, but if its real we’ll find away during the process to make quality time for one another, I call that understanding and compromise. Ending how I started, as a thug I put a girl first because of the risk of the life that I was living, so the only quality she had to have was “loyalty”. As an accomplishing man I’ll give a woman the world but what’s her worth. Loyalty should be a no brainer, so what are these amazing things she brings to the table which I’m suppose to present, financial strength, intellect, passional lover, friend, protector and the list goes on and on.. Frankly I’ve only met one female I felt deserved all of that and she’s from Sweden!

  • Streetz

    I think there's a difference between not wanting a nice guy and not wanting a lame… as CYN already said.

    I have most of the qualities you exhibit in nice guys, Im just not a pushover or timid or let ppl walk all over me. You have to have a duality about you.

    Clarification in that is key. I think most eople could get jiggy wit some of your points otherwise, for now they get caught up in semantics.

    Good post!

    • Larry

      "You have to have a duality about you."

      +1

    • shareefjackson

      Is that a duality though? That seems to imply the by default nice guys are pushovers, timids, and let people walk over them.

      I just think that the concept of being nice and being a doormat are completely different things.

      I want to be a total nerd and set up a matrix with nice and thug on one axis, and lame and cool on the other axis. All combos are possible
      My recent post 3D Printing: Making Prosthetics at Home

      • SMilez_920

        There are thugs who are push overs. Act hard in a big crowd but are being pushed around by friends and whatever lady is in their lives.

  • Eric

    People will like what they like, just find who like you for you.

  • Really?

    Huge difference between a nice guy with priorities versus a nice guy who fails to meet those priorities and standards.

    Also what is your definition of "nice". A nice guy can still be nice at first glance…or maybe pose to be nice, but has other motives that you are unaware of.

    Bottom line…nice guys don't exist…chivalry has been dead and I'm not sure who killed it but something did. There are only guys, and guys only want to do what is best for them and their priorities. If a woman doesn't meet those priorities/standards then…I'm sure ladies know where that goes.

    I am a male by the way, and I can tell just from sitting at bars and eavesdropping on conversations that in America there are no more gentlemen. People, men and women alike don't know how to have meaningful conversations face-to-face. Conversation become talk about popular culture, fidgeting with cell phones, showing instagram pictures of something "exciting", or bottom line things that have no meaning or that nobody cares about.

    Men talk about their job, how much money they make, and think this can impress a woman…but all in all its not a job that makes a man attractive, but the content of the character behind the man.

    Men only want one thing, until they have realized it has been taken from them or walked out on them.

    Nice guys don't finish last…but I think maybe your looking in the wrong places lady.

  • http://twitter.com/ShareefJackson @ShareefJackson

    I think the headline is a little baiting. This article isn't really about nice guys, it's really about who the author is attracted to. There are some valid points though – I think anyone should be upfront and unambiguous about if they like someone beyond a friend, and the whole idea of finishing "first" is subjective and kind of silly.

  • Sheen

    This might be my first time leaving a comment in the few years I've been reading but I have to.

    This lady is all over the place and I don't like that the opposite of a nice guy is a thug. Does it have to be so extreme? When I think thug I think gangs, drugs, jobless, etc. Plenty of men with great jobs and education who do make not make good partners in relationships.

    Like many have said already thug/nice guy/somewhere in between the guy will make you a priority if you are important to him. So a "nice guy" with a project due will still put on his basketball shorts to come get you if you're stranded because he cares about you.

    I agree this lady has listened to Soldier way too many times.

  • http://whatyouallow.com/ Wildflower

    I love nice guys, but yes, they must have some sort of edge.
    My recent post He’s Moved On, Why Haven’t You?

  • Animate

    I found it difficult to get past point #1 for this simple reason.

    This dude has a life and you don't like the fact that he can't drop everything and attend to your every whim. if the genders were reversed it would be the "He is intimidated by my success" blahbiteebloo.

    #2 – Nice guys are actually shy. Introverted? Probably. Shy? Probably not. You get a guy talking about a subject that interests him and he probably won't shut up about it.

    #3 – There comes an age window where this line is actually okay for dudes to say. It's that point when you are getting your shit together but women are still in that "bad boy" phase except for a few that got scooped up really early. Nice guys indeed to finish last in that period.

    #4 – Umm this is ironic to me because I have a good feeling you are the type of woman that believe that "Hoes be winning" but…yeah.

    #5 – Are people really thinking nice and polite are the same thing?
    My recent post The most powerful scene I've ever seen in a video game

  • Dr. J

    I'm going to be nice because you went to Cuse and I think that's cool.

    I don't know if nice guys always finish last. I think they just end up jacking off a whole lot because they're too busy worrying about being a nice guy instead of just being a man. I also think that every girl goes through a thug or bad boy stage. I ain't ever been a thug except for like two weeks the summer after 8th grade. I played that bad boy role well from the time I pledged until like three years out of school. Made it clear that women didn't really want no parts with me in a relationship. (I was lying like sh*t though, it was just my gimmick) That worked well but sooner or later women want a man.

    Which is my original point, it's about being a man not a nice guy or thug or anything like that.

    • Dr. J

      Just to follow up on that,

      A man would have made sure you got to your doorstep or wherever you was going. Women know almost immediately when they're dating a man. It's one thing to throw money out, but it's a whole nother to know how to throw that money out.

    • shareefjackson

      Very well put.
      My recent post 3D Printing: Making Prosthetics at Home

  • 12 Point Buck

    "I have dated every flavor of thug — the sensitive thug, the angry thug, the quiet storm (just like WBLS in every way) and after a period of being young and dumb, I decided to get it together and search for a nice guy."

    That's the recurring theme for nice guys. They get the leftovers after the chick is all old and been passed around and stuff.

    Nice guys, you'll get your chance– when the chick stops giving it up to assertive guys and wants to settle down and get married and have someone she can boss around and to provide for her kids. You'll get that used up late-model vaginer that needs an oil change and a tune up… you can have it all to yourself. But she'll expect you to "work for it." Thems the breaks.

    • http://www.greaterunderstanding.net Anthony Brian Logan

      +1
      My recent post NEW SLAVES

  • Amicus

    I think this article is fine, but I wish you'd directed the heart of it to female readers. Like, the title should have been "Why that nice guy you like, isn't actually so nice". In my opinion, undercover jerk guys *don't think* they're nice…they know their a$$holes and just don't care as long as they get what they want. So why waste time and platform explaining how being a jerk will be bad for them in the end?

    The people who are actually confused about whether a degree and a pricy glass of wine make a guy "nice"…are the women who go out with them. So, I wish you're article had talked more to women. Telling them how to spot a wolf in a nice suit. Telling them the little things you picked up on with the guy on the date you described, that let you know he wasn't nice. Too many women *actually* think that those shallow stupid things are what you should be looking for in a man, and I think a wise voice telling them otherwise is what our community need more than another article about how out educated black men need to straighten up quick…before they lose us to the thugz—> O.o?

    Anyway. I thought the article was well written. Better than most guests posts (IJS).
    My recent post The Split: Surviving The Love Hate Relationship

    • http://Www.twitter.com/MOTRisque Adonis

      @Amicus

      This broad was honest enough to reaffirm all the things we think of western black women today, and then we will have an article weeks about “where are all the good black men at?” Or some variation.

      The great thing is also, black women are the most unprotected group in America, they can’t afford more than any other woman, to alienate their men.

      But y’all are amazing in that respect. So I will let you cook!

  • http://www.blacklatinafabulous.com Maris

    I don’t know what gave me more sadz- the article or the comments section. Somebody actually alluded domestic violence is the “cure” for the modern Black American woman. I can’t.

    I’ve never been attracted to or dated a thug, if that counts at all. **e-waves to the hot and nerdy**

    But I DO need a man that owns whatever he is. If you’re funny, own it. If your not, own that, too. Authenticity is awesome.

    • tylisa06

      ^^^This! Just unapologetically be yourself. A man who is comfortable in his own skin is so sexy. I've always been attracted to a nerdy guy. I've met guys who are suppose to be "nice" and they are so unsure of themselves.

  • Vincent

    This article was silly and typical of so many of today's modern woman. "If I call and say I'm stuck, drop everything and come and get me," Cabs all over the place to come and get your independent equal butt! If you don't know how to treat a nice guy, that is on you pure and simple. Grow the hell up and stop thinking your butt is supposed to be kissed nonstop. YOU AREN'T WORTHY…, PERIOD!!!!

  • Uit

    "Bad girls ain't no good, and the good girls ain't no fun…seems we all fiend what we don't need"

  • Young Heaux

    Anybody else see an Adonis comment on these posts and just scroll past to the next? #Swerve

    • http://Www.twitter.com/MOTRisque Adonis

      @Young Heaux

      1. You @ing me shows respect, reverence.
      2. The fact that like most feminists, y’all are poor debaters, says that you finally know your “place.”

      Goodnight

    • Southerngyrl_

      Pretty much

  • oh ok…

    I just want to say to all the nice, lame, &/or shy guys out there…
    Your lady is looking for you. I know this because I found my guy that's all this and more!
    And I love him for it.
    Although, I can "get" any type of dude that likes curves, butt, and a pretty face/smile. I choose him.
    Because he's "The Truth" (India.Arie)…My Truth!
    So your s/o is out there and don't settle for less then you deserve.
    I didn't and I'm thankful for that :-)

    • WeekzSBM

      I'm gonna have to call BS here.
      Not saying you don't have this 'nice guy' for a man but I don't think you picked him right away.

      "Although, I can "get" any type of dude that likes curves, butt, and a pretty face/smile. I choose him."

      Please correct me if I'm wrong, but something about that line hinted to me that you have indeed "gotten" or "been gotten" by these other guys (i.e. thugs, jerks, a-holes, etc.) and you found this nice guy after being hurt one too many times.

      • oh ok…

        Nay…I was just hinting that I'm cute thats all! :)
        Honestly I have had my share of jerks and the jerks still keep trying, BUT I know better. He's a good guy and Im thankful that I wasn't jaded when we met or else this wouldn't be…

  • Terry

    I’m gonna try to simplify the mistakes that women make regarding the badboy/good guys dating. Women look at one basic character trait of a person and make the mistake of thinking that encompasses the total being of a man. Look more so at a persons life and not just how they act…because good men also have the internet, they look for dating advice, they google “nice guy”, they see what women are becoming attracted to and now they decided to become the a–hole. A “bad boy” without a stable job, who’s goal oriented, financially unstable, isn’t strong, protective, assertive and confidence. The flip side of course is the “nice guy” who’s gainfully employed,volunteered his time and do charity and knows his purpose and goals in life, is the strong, content and confident man.

    • Eric

      Or they go to women that like the nice guy, none american women

  • Carmelle Simone

    The best relationships happen when you're not looking for them.

  • Eric

    Hate to say this but you may have to date outside of your race I did and I never had problems after that. I am with a Irish woman that loves me for being a good black man. To the women that said I was too nice or too corny that is their lost.

    • oh ok…

      Happy for you & good luck w/ that, but please don't use blanket statements.
      Both sides of our genders have to deal w/ it.
      Not everyone sat at the "cool kids" table in high school.
      (*whispers* Even if it looks like it as adults!)

      • Eric

        Most of the kids sitting at the cool table are not doing anything with their lives now. I'm not trying to be mean just calling it at I see it. People will go elsewhere is not wanted male or female. Get in where you fit in. Sister never wanted me so I stopped wanting them sadly.

        • oh ok…

          To each their own…

        • Eric

          True that I hope you find what you are looking for.

        • balancedlady

          "Get in where you fit in. Sister never wanted me so I stopped wanting them sadly. "

          I'm glad you found someone to accept you for who you are in a relationship but it sounds like you just settled for who wanted you not who you really wanted :(

          My recent post <a href="http://balancedlady.blogspot.com/2013/07/5-reasons-men-dont-approach-you.html" target="_blank">5 Reasons Men Don't Approach You

        • Eric

          Nope very happy going to put a ring on it. just did not like American women period anymore.

  • langwichartz

    As usual the terms we use are often subjective. Lame, nice guy, thug, etc…are all about how the individual defines these terms.

    if you play with fire, and then complain about getting burned, you are insane.

    Both men and women are guilty of passing up on good things, and making bad choices, it's called LIFE. So lets acknowledge that, and try to get back on both the right track and right train.

  • Terry

    Messing with bad boys,partying it up and living with the drama are luxuries that you will no longer be able to afford when you get older. Nice/good men may finish last but we finish without a ton of kids, have a stable career, financial stability and most importantly options of who we want to date or married. I’m 43 and I am at the peak of attractivness for myself and whoever I date. Play now, work later or work now, play later.

  • Eric

    And another this this really burns me up when people say good girls love bad guys the only reason you are saying they are good girls because they are pretty I could care less about dimes you can ten of them for a dollar I only date real women. A big ass don't make you a good woman, big boob don't make you a good woman and being fine don't make you a good woman.

  • Orion Trufant

    Damn we get it yall like $$$ or thugs or white men. NO REAL BLACK MAN CARES ANYMORE!!!! Hurry up and get out of here so we dont have to sift through yall anymore. Black men who have been raised by a woman who instilled in you to respect a woman we are what they dispise!! Why are we forgetting about GOD though! Brotha's it is a blessing 97% of our women feel this way.get them out of the way!! Rappers show us this type of woman is a prostitute, degree(s) or not! Are we really missing out by them not being attracted to us? GOD is showing us its better we not have them. With the 3% left over is enough for us all to have wives, we dont need the prostitutes. Please dont think all black women are this stupid either. Black women dont see they posses some kind of spiritual power unmatched on earth seeing the establishment seems to want to remind us every few years that BW are the most spiritual. do you notice the man that you promote seems to always be the most successful,Thugs, white ma, do you not see when yall were behind men like MLK the black community flourished in no time. Yall posses great power! Close your legs and your mouth and research the POWER you posses.

  • http://www.singleblackmale.ord jprince

    nice guys, do finish last In my opinion. When I was growing up I was over looked most of the times. females told me I was too nice and they chased guys who were bad boys. you can’t be mad at the decisions you make when it comes to men who treat you bad and then complain about it.

  • Just Passing Through

    ” Nice guys don’t really know what they want.A thug will tell you he wants you within the first five minutes of meeting you.It will be clear that you are of value and he would do any number of things — legal and illegal, right and wrong— to prove to you that you’re worth hanging onto.A nice guy…has other things on his plate.He hasn’t just got work, he’s got a career. He hasn’t just got school; he’s got his educational future. And he hasn’t just got the homies and the fam; he’s got his parents, his coworkers, friends and kids at the community center where he volunteers.And don’t get me wrong, I want my man to do all this. I just want to know I’m at the top of the heap.If you’re looking for a relationship with me, when I say my train hasn’t come for an hour and I’m stuck in Queens, you don’t tell me you’ve got a big project in the morning, you throw on your basketball shorts and you come get me.Get the picture?”

    —————————————–

    If you can call your boyfriend you can call for a taxi.

    I’ll just get to the point……Mr. Nice Guy, do whatever you have to do to be

    happy. Go to Brazil, Canada, Mars or wherever to get someone who may be

    a better match for you.

    I think time will deflate this narcissist’s Hindenberg-sized entitlement complex,

    but that’s not gonna be your problem….because you’re gonna be elsewhere

    having a good time when the blimp comes down….

    Just leave, and you go do you, and let the OP and women like her

    clean up the messes of their own lives…

    (no I can’t make it to any “mentoring” session as I will be out windsailing or snowboarding

    depending on the season….don’t leave your name and phone number, I won’t be getting

    back to you…..)

    • Adonis

      Co-Sign

      • Adonis

        Old school

    • Eric

      Thank you I am with an Irish woman happy as hell

  • Terrence

    All I know is that there are a lot of sista's out there who don't know what they want, but want it now! Black men are already behind enemy lines in dealing with the white establishment, we don't also need to be behind this line in our relationships with our AA sista's!! Instead of trying to emasculate the brotha's, try being in their corner – you might be surprised by the loyalty you receive in return.

  • Sprigsleg

    OK here my thoughts on each.

    1. Nice guys don’t really know what they want.
    How many nice guys is this based off of? Also, there are nice guys that tell the girl exactly what he wants only to hear how awkward it would be to date him, how he's so nice and deserves a nice girl, really should have a girlfriend better than her, and other bs.

    Also, many girls complain about nice guys not having things going on in their life. Search online regarding nice guys and girls, why girls don't want nice guys and you will see that. They encourage guys to have other things going on and not to show the girl that you want her completely. Instead show that you have interest, but leave some mystery in there. Do other things in your time such as hang out with friends, go on trips, work, work out, etc. Then add in making time for the girl to show her that you are making time for her during your busy life.

    For that last part, I agree, however if you search online and ask people you will get mixed answers. You will actually find people that will say that this will give the girl the impression that the guy will be too available and that is NOT a good thing.

    2. Nice guys are shy.
    Too general. You will find nice guys that are so, yes. You will also find nice guys that aren't shy. Just like you will find jerks that are shy.

    As for take notice, really? You mean just like that? Also take notice and do what? Friend zone the guy? Not all girls think the same, same goes for guys. Girl A may love how the guy is nice and will give him a chance while Girl B will give him the bs phrases and go with a jerk that will abuse her in every kind of way and then she'll complain how all men are the same.

    3. Guys who use the phrase “nice guys finish last” aren’t really nice guys.
    I really don't get this statement. Let's try this, have you ever been frustrated with something(s)? Perhaps this is the case. Now of course there is a certain truth to it. There are girls that simply love jerks. Just like there are guys that simply love jerks too (there are females that are jerks). I lost count how many times I've seen a drug addict, ex-con, guy that was in jail, and so on end up getting girls flocking at their feet. It's incredible.

    Also, how about when girls say "why can't I find a nice guy" "all men are the same" "guys need to understand that looks aren't everything" "guys don't want nice girls they want trashy, easy ones"? There's more but you get the idea. What does that make them? How about this one "it's not what you know it's who you know"? You may ask how this applies, but think about it. You are saying that any guy that says that phrase, or hell perhaps maybe even if they ever said even once they aren't nice. So someone that is having a hard time finding employment during the recession can use. that phrase. What would that make them?

    4. Who cares if you’re finishing last?! This is not a competition.
    Huh? You talk down about any guy that uses the phrase and you happen to address a part of it. What gives? As like above, there is a certain truth to it. Look at the movie Forrest Gump. Yes, I know it's a movie, but situations like this happen more than people realize. Men and women both do it. Certain people don't want anything serious in their early 20s, or hell some even in their 20s period. They want "fun". The kind of fun depends on the person, but one thing is ******* multiple people, getting pregnant/getting someone pregnant, "partying" too much, and maybe even getting an STD. Now later on they start to "mature" and their mindset changes. All of a sudden they want to settle down. They usually aren't looking towards the sex partners, they look toward any nice person they know/knew in their life. Possibly even someone the rejected before. Let's take Forrest, very wealthy, set, accomplished quite a bit, great morals, etc. he can have any woman, why settle for Jenny after she's been ***** slapped numerous times, ****** too often, high on drugs, and finally sick with a deadly disease?

    5. Being polite and flashing your Colgate smile is not the same as being legitimately, honestly, heartwarmingly kind. Get it straight.

    OK, this one I think you have good points. The story doesn't completely match the point though. For a man it isn't polite to ride in a cab with your date and leave first. Also, it isn't polite to be the one doing all of the talking and not doing any listening. But yes, polite, and kindness are different things. Polite, you are making sure you say all the right things and from that you can be pretty fake and too agreeable when really all a person would want is for you to be yourself and like you for that.

    I'm sure that you are a nice person and you know what you want. The problem is I think you need to re-think your five points and your text underneath them.

  • http://twitter.com/K_tenKS @K_tenKS

    There's men out there that are neither thugs or nice guys. There are a*holes, posers, wannabees, insecurities, control problems, etc. and they come in all forms. Don't just limit guys to either being a thug or a nice guy. I've NEVER been attracted to thugs, so I've dated guys who started off being nice guys and turned out to be major a*holes and users. At first they seemed to have a good head on their shoulders, clear goals and all that. Nice guys exist but that's not what they were.

    Not all nice guys are the same. Some may be more ballzy and let you know what they want, some may be more shy and apprehensive. You can't put everyone in a box. It's not always black and white.

  • https://www.facebook.com/19inchguns Eric BigMoose Brown

    There are a lot of women out there that like nice guys some of them are not American I am with a non American woman who loved me for who I was. Sometimes you just have to move on.