Why Aren’t Black Women Getting Married

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Right now the current state of marriage in Black America is not all that bad. It’s not great, but it’s not time to start reading last rites. I’ve told people that I rarely share my opinions on marriage because it’s a real depressing outlook that bothers a lot of people. When I tell people that I’ve been in six weddings, know the next two I’ll be in, and have consistently attended 4-6 weddings a year for the last five years. Their reaction to that information is interesting.

Black men typically respond by saying that they are going through the same thing or remember the part of their life when that was happening to them.

Black women typically respond by saying that they’ve maybe been in a wedding, attended a couple, but want to know why I know all these people getting married.

Where’s that gap coming from?

By and far when I explain this to people I want them to know that this is an accurate depiction of our race’s dating, relationship or marriage status. I like to early on in the discussion enter in all the empirical evidence that should be noted here. Here are a few notes:

  1. Contrary to belief, more education will give you a better chance at marriage than someone who is less educated. This is for Black women and men. Any excuse that your degrees have placed you out of the dating pool is false.
  2. Contrary to belief, more money you have will give you a better chance at getting married and staying married. Any excuse that the money you have is placing you out of the dating pool is false.
  3. Although marriage rates are lowest in the Black community, they are still only marginally behind the national average… in general. As it pertains to Black women, they’re at the back; the very back of the statistic. It’s not important to quote the exact statistic because before we get into a statistical analysis, let’s just have a conversation for a moment. (If you want statistical information, you can actually go to WIM’s post, here.)

The first thing that I want to point out is that (based on sheer numbers) Black women are at a disadvantage when it comes to even getting into a relationship. There’s an overwhelming trend in Gen Y to avoid relationships and carry on exclusive situations. Recently, I’ve even noticed that people are convinced that exclusive situations have led to marriage. That is a fairytale, hoop dream, and scam. Treat that information like an email you got from Nigeria telling you about some money they want to transfer to your account.

More important is the fact that Black women outnumber men. That’s no secret. And what’s also important to note here is that let’s say that number is three to one, every time a Black man chooses to date/marry outside of his race, it doesn’t help Black women at all. In fact, it creates a situation that if at one point the ratio was three to one, it’s now six to one. As it pertains to those six women and that one man, only one of them can marry him (Unless, that’s your thing). That means in practical application that the other five will at some point need to find other options. That also means they have to decide at which point they need to seek other options. The point being, the numbers aren’t looking right.

Just to expand on the current situation that is Black men dating outside of their race and why it’s so problematic to this conversation, I’m not saying that Black men shouldn’t date outside their race, that’s not the intention. The fact is Black men are doing this way more than Black women. Like WAY more. No really, let me make sure you understand this, WAY MORE. Pay close attention to the next two sentences.

Black women would prefer to marry a Black man but are open to marrying someone outside of their race.

Black men are open to marrying someone outside of their race but will likely marry a Black woman.

Notice a difference?

In addition to the numbers game, there’s a difference in the way each gender chooses mates. Men are very much unlikely to marry a woman who isn’t wife material. However, there are several women who will marry a man who isn’t husband material. They will let love or a great desire to be married overshadow a man’s shortcomings. Men almost never allow themselves to get over a broom with a woman they don’t regard as “wifey material” or “wife material.”

And if the criterion for “wife material” isn’t high enough there’s another factor at play when it comes to marriage. Divorce and children hurt women more than men. Women meet men with children in their late twenties and thirties and they can almost assume that he has a child. He may not have a child. I don’t have a child and I fall in that age range. Although the man may have a child it will not be a huge barrier for them, it certainly won’t be the same obstacle that it becomes for women. I joked, but was actually very sincere, “I can’t understand how men get upset with the way child custody works. There exists a system that ensures that you can actually get away with NOT having to be the sole caregiver for your child. It’s made that way. The woman thinks she’s getting custody, but no… that decision was made for her a long time ago.” Therefore, when a woman has a child, every man she dates afterward pretty much can count on the fact that she has custody of the kid. Women just don’t have the same expectation of men.

On the other side of the conversation is that when a man is divorced, people assume that the marriage just didn’t work out. When men meet women who are divorced they begin to wonder “what’s wrong with the women?” I’ve only known a handful of women who can marry, divorce and then marry again more than once. After that point, people really start believing that something must be wrong with her. However, there are several men who marry three or more times. This may be because men are asked to provide and as long as a man can provide, he’s thought to be a good husband. Women are thought to be nurturers and people assume that if she can’t keep a husband she must not be a good nurturer.

The last thing I’ll point out is a challenge for middle ground because both sides are probably right but neither is totally right. Black women hate when men tell them they’re intimidating. They are convinced that they’re doing nothing of the kind. While many Black women are doing their best not to come across as intimidating, some of them just can’t help it. Therefore, Black men are somewhat afraid of Black women; sometimes for good reasons and other times for reasons which are very personal to them and are correctly categorized as, “Their bag.” The truth is there are ways for Black women to prevent coming off intimidating by looking at the courting process that men use to woo women.

A man shouldn’t waste time on a date talking about himself too much; the car he drives, the job he has, the degree he has obtained, or the amount of money that he makes. Likewise, neither should women. A man shouldn’t ask his wife to be his mother. Likewise, a woman shouldn’t ask a man to treat her like her father treats her. A man shouldn’t have a long list of requirements, whether shallow or not, that he dictates to a potential partner from the onset. Likewise, women shouldn’t do it either.

There’s a lot being said in this conversation both in this post and in conversations that occur offline. Here’s what’s important to note: do not walk away from this article thinking that Black women are doomed. They’re not, they’ll be fine. Only about half of the people in this country will ever get married, if you have four friends and only two of you get married, that’s fine. Keep in mind that of the two that get married, one will likely get divorced. Pick your poison on who you’d like to be. If you want some real thoughts, because there’s not much advice in this article, think to yourself what would you have me say, “stop being Black?” That won’t work. All I’m saying is the next time there’s a group of Black women sitting around asking the question why they haven’t been to a wedding or have married friends, link them to this post.

- Dr. J

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  • BKCarib

    Good read. Valid points all around.

    "A man shouldn’t waste time on a date talking about himself too much; the car he drives, the job he has, the degree he has obtained, or the amount of money that he makes."

    LAWD YES. Most so called "flaws" by themselves don't turn me off of a woman. There need to be several compounded together for me to loose interest outside of sex. The one "flaw" (at least I'd call it that) is when woman want to know about my money situation early in the conversation. It's not that I'm poor, It's not that I'm stingy. I grew up with a mother who was very materialistic and it annoyed me to no end. As a result I find this line of questioning very unattractive. I'd almost rather not ever bring it up but show you that I can provide. Probably unrealistic, but I can dream can't I?

    • big black

      I have one white friend that dated a black girl and dozens of black friends that have dated white women. None of my black friends have married a black women but have married white women. White women expect to be married and sistas don't. White men don't want a ready made family. Neither black nor white men want a ready made family to support with a baby daddy either in jail, on drugs, or in a gang. White men just wont do it. White women don't run their mouth even when their in the wrong just to hear the sound of it. Black women are sluttier in bed but a white woman can be taught to do those things. Also there are lots of gay brothas. LOTS. But for me black women just are not worth it. You are just not worth the headaches, the mouth, the attitude, the whole package. In a few decades when there are a few generations of women who lived long and lonely black women will chill out and become more desirable. Your not worth it right now

  • langwichartz

    Awesome post! I like seeing when this subject is approached as objectively as possible. Since both men and women have a role to play in the state of Black Marriages, we should always be cognisent of what we all can do better. Being combative and dismissive of each other's plights, does our people a disservice. Thanks again for the inclusive, objective convo.

    • Dee Dee

      I no longer feel committed to Black men, I"m more into finding the right man. Don't ask me to make any adjustments or to accept less than to be with a Black man, I don't want to hear it. Since I'm biracial/mixed race and attractive, I feel that Ill get more support, love outside the race than inside the race.

      other races of men have no problem supporting women its only Black men who live off women or she has to be the breadwinner in most cases.

      Considering that Black men date/marry out, I feel entitled to do the same to you! I'm not sticking with Black men I rather date marry out as much chances increase when I date outside the race!

      Those women who stay in the race are generally abuse, cheated on, the Breadwinners, raped financially and not rewarded. I see it all the time and its not changing anytime soon!

      NO BLACK MEN FOR ME!

  • Erkks

    Can someone please explain to me why this is even such a popular topic to begin with? When people start questioning why black people aren't getting married the way they do, then it implies that there is something wrong with it. Who cares? Why all this obsessive, in-depth analysis?

    • Adonis

      @Erikks

      White people give it country, then black people give it country.

      And since you are commenting, that says it all right there.

    • Tekoa

      There is a misconception in this country that being married is the right and only way to go. Marriage hasn't always been for everyone in this country but now although anyone can legally get married its up to us to find a partner to become apart of this exclusive club. Marriage and more so weddings, are marketed as the result of love but love often has nothing to do with modern marriages and weddings. However, love is a universal feeling. We all love so we all should be able to have a wedding and be married right? That's our rights as Americans! Wrong. Just like Dr. J states not all of us in this country will get married and the ones that do half of them will get divorced eventually. So the sooner we realize that we are not all the same (although similar) the sooner we won't put so much stress on what others are doing.

  • h.h.h.

    and here i was, thinking folks weren't getting married…because they were waiting for the next line dance to premier in "The Best Man" sequel….

    honestly i don't know. the boys i'm cool with from uni….are married. me and 1,2 others are the stragglers.

    technically speakin' the ratio isn't really 3-1 or 6-1 BW to BM. in our age range, it's probably more like 5-4 BW:BM. (if you want to skew the ratio to account for BM in jail, no good, or gay, then you have to the skew the ratio again for women that have been hurt so much that they find it hard to love in the first place….or gay. it balances back out)

    and it's crazy, especially when i went to an (alumni) event up in NYC…and it was literally 80% black women. i don't know how many were married, (they were out there) but the amount of single women there was probably enough for almost any guy to at least get a number to start a meaningful relationship
    *sighs* almost.

    maybe one day, we'll be attractive (mind, body, and soul) to each other. maybe one day we'll see each other as friends, and not as objects (of lust, or of gains). maybe we can start to be friendly and considerate of each other, and pay if forward, so one less lady has their guard up. one less dude thinks he has to front to get into a relationship.

    one day. a brotha can hope. till then….i'mma cop this PS4. anyone down for Madden?

    • Dee Dee

      Your comment -maybe one day, we'll be attractive (mind, body, and soul) to each other. maybe one day we'll see each other as friends, and not as objects (of lust, or of gains). maybe we can start to be friendly and considerate of each other, and pay if forward, so one less lady has their guard up. one less dude thinks he has to front to get into a relationship.

      So true!

      I feel like I'm objectify by most BM,. Very attractive, in shape, making over 6 figures….most BM want to live off women while running around and cheating with other races of women.

      I made he decision to join several Networks with other women to leave Black men and not support them. My question to Black women is "Why are you supporting Black males who don't support you"? When are you going to get smart and start withdrawing support like the rest of us?

      Its not like BM are taking the race forward but rather Backwards while blaming racism, racial profiling and White males. When BM do more "Racial profiling of BW and hatred than any race of men I know.

      the average BM rarely supports his children, women or communiites its time MOVE ON from Black men and let them save themselves! All the they do when you help them is spit in your face and give you the upmost disrespect!

      About time we turn our backs on them as were the ones with the money! They sure will respect Low Rate White women even over Educated, classy BW who supports them!

      when Black me offer reciprocity then Ill support them. In the meantime, Ive sworn off Dating/marrying Black men its not worth my time as well as the investment rarely pays off !

    • cjay

      Hi, i am an AM in EU and I am seriously hoping to connect with an AA BW. Do you know where i can find them omline atleast for a start before we establish physical contact?

  • Chocolate Vent

    Cool read, but no answers. There's just not enough men to go around…..

    • Adonis

      @chocolate Vent

      That is bullsh*t.

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

      theres plenty, women need to just ask themselves is it a matter of finding what they want or who they want

    • Darkstroke40

      "Cool read, but no answers. There's just not enough 6'3", good hair having, passport owning, six-figure earning, super-swag having men to go around….."

      I fixed that for you. We're generous around here.

      • Paul B.

        Basically

      • CNotes

        "There's just not enough 6'3", good hair having, passport owning, six-figure earning, super-swag having men to go around….."

        Truth be told……the majority of women who require all of the characteristics you have listed are more than likely NOT what you desire in a wife outside of her looks.

  • Adonis

    It is not really all that hard. Black women are not getting married because it is not in their best interest to do so. End. Of.

    There are more than enough married minded men of all races to choose from.

    Most black women come across these men when they are at their sexual peak (18-23).

    So, if it is in their best interests or in their upbringing. Black women will get married.

    Incentives. Incentives. Good day.

  • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan

    Very common trend, my friends from college/work are married, friends from around the way having kids. Thats what i find funny about articles like that, its like who are these commitment fearing ninjas yalll meeting.

  • Blue

    I wish there was a physical place that 20 something’s can go who are cool and looking for something exclusive can go and find their potentially future mate. Dating would be a lot less hopeless. Where are the guys who dont mind being married before 26, 27? Which means we can start dating now [22] and be set in a few years ^_^ lol. Wishful thinking. Because these early 90s babies are not thinking about the long term. They’re enjoying spreading their wild oats with no commitment. Joy.

  • https://www.facebook.com/aquariuanjourney Candace Fleming

    If some women stop being stubborn and start dating men outside of their race, Im sure a lot more would be married.
    My recent post Reality Show Rewind

    • http://twitter.com/jtSolBroSupreme @jtSolBroSupreme

      thats probably true, Candace. I don't see a thing wrong with it.
      love is wherever you find it, whatever color it is

    • SMilez_920

      That would require for those women to hang out in places that have a really big mixed crowd, or some place outside of their comfort zone. Which most women won't do without 5 – 10 girlfriends with them which don’t always help?

      Heck in all honesty I think a lot of women pass over some really great blk men because their all chasing the same 5 or 6. Their missing the hidden gems in the jewelry store safe chasing after the fake diamonds in the store front window.

      • langwichartz

        *drops a dub into the collection plate*!

      • cherryoakfudge

        here,here

    • https://www.facebook.com/shelley.wright.921 Shelley Wright

      ^ another unfortunate myth…Dating outside of one's race does not guarantee that they will more likely be married. Let us not go forward in our lives and interact with others believing this lie. People should date who they want without the expectation of marriage.

      • http://whatyouallow.com/ Wildflower

        Shelley, I say that because men of other races are more prone to be married. You don't need statistics to prove that. Just go out and public and see for yourself.
        My recent post Why You Shouldn’t Fake An Orgasm

        • AAA

          Not so, most people, BM included do get married at some point. The difference is that most BM like to have their finances in order and being black means you most likely have more debt and if you went to college your parents had less money to support you financially therefore it takes the average black couple a little longer to get on their feet. It doesn't mean that BM dont want to get married because if they didn't then the vast majority wouldn't and the vast majority do.

  • WIM

    Good post.

    You know I'm a stat guy so I'm going to quote an interesting stat I read yesterday (may do a full write-up on the topic later."

    "NPR poll shows 43% of single black men actually want relationships compared to 25% of single black women."

    Regarding the post, like with most categories, black people – men and women – lead in all the "wrong" categories (eg prison, poor health and low income), and trail in all the "right" categories (education, investing, and marriage – if you define marriage as good). Therefore, it's not that surprising that black men and women are marrying later because pretty much all the factors you need or should establish before getting married, on the whole, take black people longer to achieve. In hindsight, I probably haven't done as good a job as I should have of accurately attributing lagging black marriage rates to both men and women, because while there is not necessarily "blame" to assign to either sex, both sexes do share some of the burden. Sure, there are perfectly logical reasons why black men and women marry later than every other race. Many of them are, to a degree, outside of our control. However, It's like my father said to me when I was growing up…

    "It might not be your fault, but it is your problem."

  • http://twitter.com/jtSolBroSupreme @jtSolBroSupreme

    actually, we ARE marrying and some have married MORE THAN ONCE sooooo………….?

  • MB

    BW would need to lose weight to even consider interracial relationships. 4 in 5 BW are overweight or obese. Other races don’t really go for the whole big woman thing/ fat ass thing like Blacks do. In short, it does not translate and you are going to have to conform to a different standard of beauty to have “cross over” appeal but black women don’t want to work out and mess up the hair…smh

    • payne well

      Is that a real life stat? And latin me love a woman with meat on her bones as well. Also with songs like 2 chainz "birthday song" big booties are in.
      My recent post I get so lonely

      • MB

        Just google black obesity rate. It’s a real stat according to the CDC. 2 chainz is a BM, so like I said OUTSIDE of the Black and Latin as you rightfully pointed out, no other race/ethnicity is going for the overweight lovers. WM actually say “that ass is too big”, never heard a BM say that!

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          MB: "Just google black obesity rate."

          Google American obesity rate.

        • MB

          All of America has a problem , but Blacks are leading, no doubt

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          "All of America has a problem , but Blacks are leading, no doubt"

          From Wikipedia, sourced from the CDC report Summary Health Statistics for U.S. Adults: National Health Interview Survey, 2010:

          For adult Caucasian women, the rate of obesity was 24.5% in 2010…For adult Black women, the rate of obesity was 41.2% in 2010.

          Three take aways.

          1. As you said, black men prefer thickness, so it makes sense that more black women are obese.

          2. Many of those 24.5% obese white women are still getting chose.

          3. There is the 58.8 of black women who aren't obese.

          Just because white men are less likely to be with someone overweight, it doesn't mean it is rare that they will. You can talk about other factors for not dating interracially, but weight is really a non-starter.

        • MB-trainer

          African American women have the highest rates of being overweight or obese compared to other groups in the U.S. About four out of five African American women are overweight or obese.

          In 2010, African Americans were 1.4 times as likely to be obese as Non- Hispanic Whites.

          In 2010, African American women were 70% more likely to be obese than Non-Hispanic White women.

          In 2007-2010, African American girls were 80% more likely to be overweight than Non-Hispanic White girls.

          Age-adjusted percentage of persons 20 years of age and over who are overweight or obese, 2007-2010. (Persons are considered overweight if they have a Body Mass Index (BMI) of 25 or greater.) National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES)

          Source: : CDC, 2012. Health United States, 2011. Table 74. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/hus11.pdf [PDF | 9.8MB]

        • MB-trainer

          1. My point is BW dating interracially, so what BM prefer is moot.

          2. A minority position (24.%% of anything) is a weak position, much less if we're talking about expanding a BW's dating options. Try to be within the Normal Distribution curve, not outside of it.

          3. Only 1 in 5 BW are NOT overweight or obese. See above.

          4. These are the facts Uncle Hugh, don't play the enabler position.

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          Dude, I'm a personal trainer. I'm well aware of the stats. I'm also an engineer, so I'm rather proficient at math. The "70% more likely to be obese" is still a minority of black women (24.5 X 1.7 = 41.7%, which corresponds to the 41.2% stat I gave).

          I'm talking about your original statement: "BW would need to lose weight to even consider interracial relationships". Your point doesn't apply to about 60% of black women. And even with that 40% that it does, clearly many white men are getting with overweight women. No one is being an enabler or saying it's cool to be overweight, I'm pointing out the stats.

          Of course, this is all this is all based on the ridiculous assumption that white boys are somehow the panacea to the black woman's dating woes, but that's another matter.

        • pcb

          black women are too fat, wear too much weave and are too "turnt up" to attract quality men…in most cases

        • MB-straight-talker

          1. Uncle Hugh, I AM NOT A DUDE!!! I am, however, a BW that works out. So now who's playing fast and loose with assumptions?!?!

          2. As proficient as you seem to think you are in math, you are equally deficient in reading and comprehension. As an accountant, let me show you how. The opening paragraph to the stats I quoted said
          "African American women have the highest rates of being overweight or obese compared to other groups in the U.S. About four out of five African American women are overweight or obese."

          But instead of focusing on these stats that describe the current state of affairs regarding BW and obesity, you wander off and decide to crank out some arbitrary math calculation of your own to prove what?I still don't know…4 in 5 (80%) is as clear as day Uncle Hugh. Why won't you debate that? NO. FAT. PASSES.period.

          Thirdly, as a personal trainer, you have personally observed (as have I)the marked absence of black females in the fitness arena. How many have you seen by the free weights? Cardio machines? Hell, in the gym period? (Unless you live in an all Black, affluent neighborhood?)

          Black women constantly lament about their inaccessibility to BM and men in general, try suggesting the gym as a potential meeting place and see what answer you get? Oh no, I can't sweat out my weave/wig/perm/whatever. Fact is 4 out of 5 sounds right to me and anecdotal stories do confirm.

          And just to make sure you can understand what prompted my comment in the first place, the blogger stated,
          "Just to expand on the current situation that is Black men dating outside of their race and why it’s so problematic to this conversation, I’m not saying that Black men shouldn’t date outside their race, that’s not the intention. The fact is Black men are doing this way more than Black women. Like WAY more. No really, let me make sure you understand this, WAY MORE."

          My point was to highlight a glaring hurdle to the black-women-dating-outside of-their-race point. Nowhere were white boys touted as the panacea to a BW dating woes. Obesity isn't cute or HEALTHY Uncle, so stop acting like it doesn't factor.

        • Uncle Hugh, BP

          Adios mio.

          Your crusade for health isn't the topic of discussion here, so you wrote a whole bunch of nothing. Obviously it's not my reading comprehension that is at issue here. To tabulate it for you, I did not say:

          - Obesity isn't a factor in attractiveness, for white or any other men.
          - Fat is healthy.
          - Black women do not lead in obesity.
          - Black women don't need to workout.
          - All white men like fat women.
          - Obesity isn't a factor in interracial rating.

          You also don't seem to know overweight isn't obese, hence the different terms. Four out of five black women are overweight or obese? 2 out of 3 AMERICANS are overweight. According to the CDC that YOU quoted as your resource, 41.2% of black women are obese. To point out the obvious, 41.2% isn't 80%.

          You're arguing with yourself, not with what I wrote. Yes, we need to be more conscious about our health, no one said otherwise. But to say "BW would need to lose weight to even consider interracial relationships" is outlandish.

        • Dani

          Don't discount latinos. There are plenty of them to go around so turns out bw don't have to lose weight to date interracially. Also plenty of fat white women are married to white men sooo… Also 4 out of 5? Incorrect. It's less than half.

    • Tekoa

      Where do you live?! Because I'm not even in the biggest city on the East Coast and I see fat women of all ages and colors and most of them are with their fat husbands. Standards of beauty really have nothing to do with finding love if that is what the issue is here. Marriage and finding the person that you are (trying) to spend the rest of your life with has nothing to do with appearance. Yes sure attractiveness is the primary reason for conducting a relationship but a woman's weight does not constitute her attractiveness to EVERYONE. Your post is very ignorant and I'm not even angry because you're response is the way a lot of close minded people think when it comes to women's responsibilities to find love. All of the responsibility is placed on women and then our looks are to blame for our failures. A BW, whether a size 2 or a size 22 or a 28 can find someone who is attracted to her outside of her race. And when she does that is the person she is suppose to be with, not anyone who would judge her based on her outward appearance. BW don't need to do anything to consider interracial relationships, they just need to consider it. Point. Blank. Period.

      • Adonis

        @tekoa

        Sit yo azz down with your fake outrage.

        Being fat does not help your cause for any part of the dating process.

        And you only make (black) women look worse because, if fat wack women can get married, WTF is your excuse? Interracial or intraracial

        Very very simple. (Black) women do not have dating issues, they have ENTITLEMENT ISSUES

        And all the men she encounters basically say, “no thanks”. She is more trouble than she is worth.

      • MB

        Obesity is an issue with medical ramifications, not a beauty standard issue only. When a man sees an obese woman, he says to himself, she does not care about her health, so she damn sure wont care about mine or my offspring’s.
        As Adonis says being fat does not help your cause for any part of the dating process.
        Approach it this way instead of looking for a fat pass. If BW want to be open to interracial dating, some things, like their potential health issues are gonna need to improve. Unless you think you’re that entitled?

    • rena215

      I know that obesity is a problem in the Black community, but I do not think it's as common as you think it is. For one, the CDC's definition of obesity is misleading, since it's based purely on BMI (weight and height). It is well known that Black women usually can carry more weight well than women of other races without looking fat and having adverse health effects.

      I had a White roommate with the exact same height and weight as me – 5'4" 165-170 lbs, and we looked WAY different. She looked bigger and carried all of the weight in her midsection. I've always had more muscle mass and, on top of that, carry the weight in my rear and chest, with very little in my midsection (more of a Serena build). I'm sure most BMI calculators would lump me in the obese category, but I work out often (a lot of heavy weight lifting with some cardio) and am in shape, although I've always weighed a lot.

      BMI doesn't account for this, so the statistics on Black women and obesity are going to be skewed – a certain height and weight are going to look much different on a Black women, White women, Asian woman, and so on.

    • Dee Dee

      Excuse me, most BM are fat/obese as well as have poor health. As far as being "Men" many of you can't seen to "Man up" to provide, lead, protect, marriage or do anything positive in your communities!

      Your Rating as Men is Poor and the lowest on the food chain! Your the least desired of all races of men as well as when you do "marry/date out" its normally with women not desire by men in their own race.

      Black men are known for accepting the "Wasteland of scraps" that other races don't want, which is a symptom of being at the bottom!

      • Jay Green

        Amen..Black men don't seem to understand that they are at the bottom of the list of desired men. And they want to blame their problems on black women, but find me a non-black woman who is going to put up with the bull crap they put black women thru..no problem i'll wait….!! Exactly I don't understand why when it comes to non black women they want to put their best foot forward like quality black women do deserve the same thing. You black men know when it comes to dating us white women you wont even bring that bullsh*t to our door.. Like why do you hate your own kind so much??

  • Marriage Minded

    When I was younger, I thought I'd be married with kids by now. I thought that mainly because that's how it was for my parents. But my parents got married in the 70s, and times have changed. People are still getting married, but it's later. Men, even men who will be interested in marriage at some point, are reading articles like this and looking at divorce rates and thinking they need to be very very careful in their screening/dating process. Hence the long lists Dr. J mentioned above.

    Sure, their girl can cook, cleans, wants to get married, would be a great mom, has a job, has a place, maybe even has a car, but she doesn't get a regular pedicure, and what if she lets herself go as she ages? Nah, best to dodge that bullet and look for 100%. I love my guy. He's almost exactly what I was looking for when I was wading through all the BS of the dating scene, but he's not perfect. No one is. I think he's the right guy for me and I'm ready to take that plunge, and I think he feels the same way about me, but he's still hesitating. That can drive a girl crazy. What does a girl gotta do to make a guy take that plunge?

    Well, nothing. No one can MAKE anyone do anything. And I suppose, if he takes what I consider to be too long, then I'll have to make the decision of whether to stay with the almost perfect guy who's sending all the right signals and committed, but not coming out with a ring, or looking for MY 100%. Only time will tell.

    • bellatrice1

      I am going through the same. My guy has been married before so he's almost too careful. He wants marriage and more children, but seems to still be holding back.

      "And I suppose, if he takes what I consider to be too long, then I'll have to make the decision of whether to stay with the almost perfect guy who's sending all the right signals and committed, but not coming out with a ring, or looking for MY 100%." And the same goes for me. It's sad that you both have to lose out on what could be a great partnership bc one party is to scared or too jaded to take that plunge.
      My recent post Christianity and the Black Church

    • Lovely

      I had the same situation. Before I got married we were dating for 4 years, I was ready for marriage but he was hesitant. I was very happy in our relationship, he was the Best Man I every had. We were living together, he took care of me, and part of the finances (I paid my fair share to), took EXCELLENT care of my daughter (4 yrs. old at the time), love her as his own. So I put no pressure on him about marriage. I was content.

      Than one day……..He proposed to me in our bedroom closet (I was doing spring cleaning).

      There is a movie I love to watch, "He's Just Not That Into You"….. one of the couples remind me of our courtship…Beth and Neil. She wanted marriage, he said he didn't believe in it. She broke up with him. Than realized she walked away from a man who treated her better than most married couples.

      Here are a few quotes:

      THE BREAK UP……….

      Beth
      "I just need you to stop being nice to me……unless you're gonna marry me after."

      Neil
      "I told you I don’t believe in marriage"

      Beth
      "Come on, it's bullshit for every woman……that has been told by some man, that say he doesn't believe in marriage……and then six months later he's married to some 24-year-old that he met at a gym."

      THE MAKEUP……….

      Beth
      "You see those guys my sisters are married to…You're more of a husband to me, not being married…..than those real husbands are ever gonna be, and…It's enough. It's really enough for me."

      Neil
      "You would do that for me?"

      THE PROPOSAL

      Neil (on one knee with an engagement ring)

      "I need to make you happy ……for me to even have a shot at being happy."
      _______________________________________________

      My point is………..

      You say you love your guy. He's almost perfect, this guy is the one for you, right?

      If he makes you happy, why would you let him go? Just so you can "BE" married?

      Just think about it.

      • Adonis

        @Lovely

        The guy vs. the goal.

        Women as a collective are starting to get it.

        • Smilez_920

          @Adnois….

          I don’t think the guy should overshadow the goal, and vice versa I don’t think the goal should over shadow the guy, they should be at equilibrium with each other.

        • Adonis

          @Smilez

          If a woman priorities were balanced right now.

          Some women overplay their hand.

      • Smilez_920

        @Lovely I get what you’re saying, but why does my happiness always have to be put to the side in order for our relationship to work. In all honesty let’s say the make up didn’t happen that way and the guy goes “great, I’m glad that’s over, no marriage for us”. Do you truly think the women would be happy forever after that?

        I mean are you really the man for me if I want marriage and that’s something you don’t want?

        • Lovely

          Your talking about a piece of paper, vs. a committed relationship.

          Forget the movie. In my situation I looked at the entire picture, inside and outside of my relationship. My man was committed to me, loved me, took care of me, believe in GOD, respect me as a women, adores his mother, loved my daughter, make good money…the list goes on and on. The only thing (at the time) I didn't have was a piece of paper. I knew he was committed to our relationship.

          Go look at the malesurvey2013 posted on this blog.

          Q1: When looking for love…a sense of "Loyalty" was a high priority.
          Staying with a "good man" regardless, is one way of showing it.

          And when asked… Do you still believe in the institution of marriage?….72%!!! of men said "Yes I believe it is a necessary and one in which I will participate."

          And why do you see it as settling? A man will marry, when he is ready to marry. If you feel that "getting married" is a higher priority than having a "good man"…..well…good luck with that.:)

        • Carissa

          I agree with Lovely's logic, as a married woman myself. Shooting for 100% when you already have Mr. 80% in hand is fool's gold. Perhaps your man just needs a bit more time. Is there anything else you can do, provide reassurances about what marriage means to you, security for BOTH of you, a partner in the struggle to provide a better life for the family or maybe a simple you are all I need and I am not going anywhere, babe.

          If he already knows that you want marriage, no use repeating it time and time again (nagging or threatening). He loves you and would want to make you happy, never question that. Try giving HIM a sense of security. I would never let Mr. 80% go, EVER. Not in today's dating game!

      • Marriage Minded

        I feel what you're saying, and I enjoy that movie, but another line in that movie makes a good point:

        "…all my friends used to tell me about how things might work out with these dipsticks because they knew someone, who knew someone, who dated a dipstick just like mine. That girl ended up getting married and living happily ever after. That's the exception and we're not the exception we're the rule."

        No, I don't think my man is a dipstick, and no I'm not prioritizing the marriage over the man, but I WOULD like to be married to this man and start a family, and I DON'T want to be one of those women who stayed forever, only for it all not to work out. It's definitely something to keep in mind. But who knows. That's why I said time will tell.

        • Lovely

          I agree. Only time will tell….and your NOT going to be one of those women that stayed forever, because you know what you want.

          Although we got married, 10 years later it ended in divorce. So make sure you're sure.

  • balancedlady

    Interesting fact- Only 12.5% of married black men had non-black wives in 2010 according to the Census Bureau's Current Population Survey. That means a large majority (87.5%) of black men are not marrying outside of their ethnic group. (Funny enough everyone loves to use the 22% of black men married to non-black women but that was from 2008) I guess we could say 1 in 6 black men marry outside of black women or we could say 87.5% are not married outside of black women. I think our perspective has a lot to do with how we perceive this issue (and the way the media influences us).

  • http://balancedlady.blogspot.com/ balancedlady

    Another thing- it's really difficult to find stats on the marriage rates of just white people or asian people or whatever. If you Google marriage rates of white people it still pops up talking about "Is Marriage for White People: Why Blacks Aren't Getting Married" LOL

    I like this article because it wasn't biased. It's funny how the media can take an unbiased facts and twist it to make prove whatever it is they want it to- Just Food For Thought
    My recent post New Poll Shows Single Black Men Want Long Term Relationships More Than Black Women

  • LP

    Generally speaking, you hit the issue spot on! Great points shared! Bravo!!

    There are other factors that influence these outcomes as well.

    Music and Television, regardless of what actors and musicians disown during interviews, their material sends subliminal messages to the world! (It also applies to the reasons why young black men, like Trayvon, are being hunted and gunned down)

    When generations grow up listening to and believing what they see and hear, they mimic these things.

    If they view hiphop as violent, people will fear those that look like what they see in music videos. If they see black women as objects or props for music videos and nothing else, thats how the rest of the world will view them and use them.

    Just watch typical commercials on television and tally up how any times you see the black race vs the white race…. What shade is their skin? Is the commercial sending a positive message or is it playing into stereotypes? How many hiphop songs can you name, in recent history, that praise black women?

    To conclude, the subliminal message has always been, black men are strong, FEAR THEM!!! … Black women are just sexy, have you f*cked one today???

    Real talk.. L.P.

    • cherryoakfudge

      LP, you hit the nail on the head and spoke up on a very real(talk) issue

  • 12 Point Buck

    Black women arent getting married because dudes arent proposing to them. It's that simple. Now, the reasons men arent proposing is a complex problem in itself. But its certainly not limited to race.

    I hear a lot about black women suggesting to each other to date outside their race– and while I see a lot of interracial DATING couples where the woman is black, I see less of it than interracial MARRIED couples where the man is black. Which leads me to conclude that white dudes might be willing to DATE black women, but arent as willing to propose to them. Just my anecdotal observations.

    • guest

      100% accurate. In New York City, for every black man I see with a white woman, I see three white men with a black woman. The reason this reality is not reflected in marriage statistics is because white men are far more eager to have sex with a black woman than they are to marry one. Sisters don't realize this until they are approaching middle age.

      • Carissa

        Ha! I've noticed that too and always wandered if WM are dating BW cause they're the flavor of the week, or if they're really pursuing a relationship with marriage as the goal…interesting observation!

    • rena215

      I think there are plenty of non-Black men who are willing to date AND marry black women. In fact, out of the three serious relationships I had – two white and one Black – the two White boyfriends I had were most interested in marriage.

      I was engaged to the first (White) boyfriend. I broke things off with the second (Black) boyfriend because he refused to make much of a commitment and came to find out he was seeing other women on the side. I admit I didn't choose the second boyfriend very well – I went for the very attractive law student/lawyer, super intelligent, tons of charisma, funny and received a LOT of attraction from women, but not much in the way of morals.

      The third (White) boyfriend I'm currently with has begun discussing marriage after only about 5 months of dating (he's 31; I'm 29). I have two older sisters, both of whom married non-Black men, so it's a pretty common practice in my family.

      I'm not sure why there are so many intent on putting Black women down and making them feel that no other race of men will have them except Black men. I assure you, that isn't true. Date who you want (regardless of race) and whose interests/beliefs/goals align most with your own.

    • Kristin

      This isn;'t necessarily true. The stats show that the percentage black women MARRYING outside their race is increasing. It's still not at the level of black men, but it's beginning to cut down on the gap. I will agree that for a lot of white guys it still is a bit taboo to marry a black woman, but it's becoming increasingly more acceptible. And I actually know a lot of older couples who are WM+BW. And the Lovings who were pioneers of IR relationships were BW WM, so I think we will definitely continue to see in increase in black women marrying outside the race, which is a beautiful thing.

  • guest

    Many young, educated and fit black women have made the conscious decision to exclude black men from their dating pool. By exclusively dating white men, they have eliminated the one group of men most likely to marry a black woman. These women spend ther prime dating years having sex with white guys who would NEVER marry them. By the time they reach their mid-thirties and their former white “boyfriends” have married a white woman, all the most eligible brothers are taken.

    • rena215

      That's not true and you know it.

      For one, a majority of Black women are not open to dating outside their race, so they don't spend there prime dating years with White men who will never marry them. In fact, most BW who are approaching or past 30 yrs. old spent their "prime dating years" with Black men.

      For the small percentage of BW who date outside their race, quite a few end up marrying non-Black men.

      It's laughable that you would even spend so much time trying to convince BW that no other race of men want them and that Black men are the only ones who will have them when that isn't true.

  • That guy

    Why should we get married anymore? Marriage is not the "cornerstone" that it use to be. It is now the "capstone" something we cap off our successful life. The gains (empirically and socially) the a person once received from marriage is no longer the most relevant part of adulthood. Success in this current generation is defined by financial stability. To be honest, we give marriage too much thought. Marriage has never been the majority family formation in the Black community dating back to the antebellum period.

  • http://www.trutheye.wordpress.com bee serendipity

    the fact that Black women

    outnumber men. That’s no secret.

    I’m sorry but I’ll have to disagree with this. I believe BW are at a disadvantage bcos the pool of men eligible for marriage is small. We ladies been brought up a certain way: our men shud be able to provide, the men we want are ‘princes’ rich, classy handsome. Are there many BM who fit in this picture? NO!

    Women are doing more these days. Bagging degrees, earning well. The rate of successful black women seeking to marry more/equally successful black men are high. But are there successful black men to marry in the same ratio? Sorrry but no. Lemme go back and finish reading d post.

    • BKCarib

      It doesn't matter if the men are eligible or not. Fact remains there are (I'm fuzzy on this stat) 1 or 2 million more Black Women ("educated" or otherwise) than Black Men ("educated" or otherwise.)

      • Adonis

        @BkCarib

        That is bullsh*t.

        You are accounting for elderly women which is misleading.

        I have ran the numbers. Black men & women from about age 16 – 60 are about even. There are slightly more women.

        The point is, most of a woman’s reproductive years. Black women can get a decent man of any race.

        Assuming that she is at least average.

        The bigger problem is black women are not capitalizing on their value,

        Or even better, they are capitalizing, but it is a SHORT-TERM win.

        So they will have kids at an early age, or they will wh0re themselves out, or they will not put a priorities on being in shape or pleasant.

        That has little to do with men & her dating pool.

        It is the choices women make.

        Good day.

        • maggie

          I have worked in a medical examiner's office aka the morgue. Black men are dying in much, much higher numbers in their prime ages of 18-30. Black boys/men show up in droves. So no matter what black women are looking for and no matter if black men are being overlooked or not—the numbers don't lie. Black women do outnumber black men. And it must be considered that so many young black men are dying in the prime of their lives leaving black women to search among a much smaller pool of black men.

    • uNk

      So…."We ladies been brought up a certain way: our men shud be able to provide"

      But…"Women are doing more these days. Bagging degrees, earning well"

      You want a man to provide, but you put yourself in a situation where theres nothing to provide for. you good!! lol

      not saying be a bum or anything but yea, that logic wont ever work out

  • Danielle

    Dang, another blog post/article about why black women can't seem to find a man/keep a man/get married/stay married, etc. Can we PLEASE stop beating this horse to death? I'm just saying…
    My recent post Straight from a "Dark Girl's" Mouth

  • Bgmd

    Black women aren’t getting married because it no longer benefits them to do so. Generally speaking. Men benefit from marriage moreso

    than women. As women continue to advance, they will get married less and less. Black men still have a ways to go, so that’s probably why you see the black men in your life rushing to the altar. See this article. 43% of black men surveyed said they were looking for long term relationships, compared to just 25% of black women.

    The numbers tell the story. Black women are no longer checking for y’all.

    http://wap.npr.org/news/U.S./188643185?start=5

    • Adonis

      STFU negro.

      When black babies stop being born, then your point might have some merit.

      And black men ain’t gonna lose sleep when the day comes when black women stop checking for us.

      Now go be a good Negro Bed Wench for your white boy. Smh

      • Kristin

        No I kind of agree. A lot of young black women have children (unmarried) we all know this. So if they are already cohabiting with a guy and have children by him, they may not feel urgency to get married. They already see themselves as "married" in a way, eventhough legally they are not. I definitely don't think black women aren't checkin for black men. Black women love black men! They probably just don't feel the need to marry them.

  • Val

    Black women aren’t getting married because we don’t want to be. If and when marriage suits our needs, then fine. But what’s wrong with choosing to head our own households? I don’t get why this topic keeps reappearing as though there’s something wrong with BW. I will date whoever I want, the baby’s father will pay his child support like he’s supposed to and I get to live my life on my terms… Sounds like a win, win situation to me.

    • BKCarib

      O.o
      Since when is having a man pay child support preferable to having a husband if not at least a long term boyfriend who lives with you?

      • Adonis

        @bkcarib

        Because h0es & women out of their f*ckin’ mind think that they can have children without quality men by their side.

        And then when the child grows up to be dysfunctional, then they blame the bum or the estranged father they ran out the house as the reason for their failed parenting.

        Good day.

  • Val

    Husband? I am not getting married just because I have a child/children with someone. What is this 1960? He will pay his child support even if I live with my man because that is his responsibility. Marriage enters the picture when I believe I have found my equal in a man, not before! Black men these days are mediocre at best, so I won’t be settling. Mediocre education, mediocre jobs, mediocre providers. As soon as that improves, watch the black marriage rate jump!

    • Adonis

      @val

      Husband? I am not getting married just because I have a child/children with someone.

      Why would you create a child with a man who is not, your “equal”? Or not worthy of calling him your husband?

      What is this 1960? He will pay his child support even if I live with my man because that is his responsibility.

      Or if he is worth having a child with, he would have no problem taking full custody so you can be the wh0re you aspire to be.

      Marriage enters the picture when I believe I have found my equal in a man, not before!

      Which implies that you are not worth the trouble, otherwise black men would happily buy whatever you are selling.

      Black men these days are mediocre at best, so I won’t be settling. Mediocre education, mediocre jobs, mediocre providers.

      Here is the reason why I replied. If black men collectively are “mediocre” why TF are you entertaining black men as fathers & husbands?

      You have African men, you have Asian men, (black or white) Hispanic men, Indian men, Native American men, European men.

      You don’t have to copulate & be joined at the hip of a black man.

      But what could be the reason is that BM are the only men who are the most likely to put up with your bullsh*t. So, I understand why your dating pool is so limited.

      As soon as that improves, watch the black marriage rate jump!

      Which black men would never consider you apart of.

  • Val

    Our singlehood and my singlehood is because I don’t want to have to put up with HIS bull, not the other way around! I don’t believe in submission so a BM can feel good and macho. I refuse to be stressed out by being with a mediocre BM. I can do without all the stress especially the financial because he can’t get a good job or keep a good job. BM have taken feminism as an excuse to be lazy, underperformers but I won’t put up with mediocre just to walk around calling myself Mrs. Somebody.

    And for the record, BM are the ones running me down, asking me out and trying to get to talk to me. I don’t ask them out. Hope that answers your question!

    So bring your A game and then we can talk wifey talk!

    • Adonis

      @Val

      Again, why black men even on your radar if we are so mediocre. Take your azz over to those white boys & be happy.

      Like I said, if you are replusive as your comments portray, the only men who will halfway put up with your sh*t are bum-azz black men.

      So STFU & be thankful some black men want you.

  • Val

    Face facts! Men are like buses, there will be another one along in 15 minutes. Thanks to feminism strong BW no longer have to take crap from BM, especially a$$holes like you!

    • Adonis

      @Val

      Negro.

      It ain’t working for you, because you are mad cause a black man that is going place ain’t checkin’ for your sassy.

      So, please ride that feminism train till death. I am not even sure it is workin’ for you, given your jadedness

    • http://twelvepointbuck.tumblr.com/ 12 Point Buck

      I like this mentality. lol. If we men are the buses, then we simply pick up chicks, let them ride, and drop them back off. This is perfect. Please help spread this message to the rest of womankind, thanks.

  • Cinnamonshorty

    I read the article by Dr. J and all of the comments and I am wondering if many people on this site, including the writer seem to be living in an alternate reality.

    Black Women are in no way at a dating disadvantage. This statement is laughable. The only Black women who are at a dating/marriage disadvantage are those who are limiting THEMSELVES. The growing number of us who are dating out realize the surplus of men of all races available. Black women now have the fastest growing IR in the country with White men and those are MARRIAGE rates. (2010 census). Their is also denial about the fact that their are many Black women whose first choice is a non BM. Shocking but true.

    Black men are the last group who should be saying how other men are using BW for sex and not marrying them, when many BM are engaging in this very behavior with BW.

    BW are in a fantastic position and writing articles and nasty comments stating otherwise will not change this fact. Lol

    • Dr. J

      You realize that nothing you said was true right?

      Most Black women do not date or marry interracially, fact.
      While Black women may be the fastest growing population of interracial relationships, it's only because they just started doing it and again… most Black women do not date or marry interracially, fact.
      That would make your statement about their first choice being non-Black also false.

      Also, this is what happens when you don't read. You miss this tidbit of information:

      "Here’s what’s important to note: do not walk away from this article thinking that Black women are doomed. They’re not, they’ll be fine."

      • Cinnamonshorty

        You know that what I said is true, which is why you took the time to respond.
        I never once said in my post that most BW date/marry interracially. Not once! I said they have the fastest growing IR in the country with WM. They do!
        I said that many BW first choice is non BM. I did not say all or most BW, I said many.
        The census tracks stats, not attraction.
        Why do some members of the
        Black community seem to have such a
        hard time grasping this concept?
        Many will readily accept it of BM, but
        challenge BW who have their own
        preferences.
        I read your entire article. Based on your reply, maybe you should take your own advice, because you did a poor job of reading/comprehending what I wrote.
        Throwing a bone to BW in your closing paragraph, after you spent so much time telling them why they are not/
        won’t get married was pathetic.
        You write this article at the very
        moment in time when BW are starting to marry more and more, only its happening at a faster rate with non
        BM. Lol
        Guess the growing number of non BM don’t think these sistas are too intimidating to marry.
        I know BW will be fine, because their fine right now!
        So many people are trying so hard to
        maintain the status quo, because for so long it has benefitted everyone BUT BW.
        Oh well those days are over, BW will simply keep moving to men who provide love, marriage, protection and
        security, no matter what color they are.
        BW deserve it!

        • Adonis

          @CinnamonShorty

          You sound magical as hell. Put the crack pipe down.

          This is not a competition, and black women will still overwhelming choose black men, even though guys like me & you promote to choose for them to get the best man they can find.

          But you are taking it to another level, like black women are leaving in droves.

          That is bullsh*t

        • BKCarib

          "You know that what I said is true, which is why you took the time to respond."

          There is so much wrong with this statement and the mentality that allows people to say this stuff, it's absurd.

  • Kitana

    Black women will be getting married a lot more if they dates outside there race more. It is starting to increase as more black women are increasing their options. Every time I see a bride tumblr or facebook page, most of the black brides are with other race men. Other races of men tend to be more family oriented in general and there are a good number of non black men that like black women.

  • Cinnamonshorty

    @Adonis

    Why the insults because you disagree with what I’m saying?

    Are you going to point out false information in my post? There isn’t any, so I suppose the insults will continue.

    I don’t think its a competition either. At all.

    Did I say BW were leaving BM in droves?

    Or did I simply acknowledge that many like non BM and a growing number are getting married to them.

    IR is new for this generation of BW, 35 and under. Will there low numbers increase? Yes.

    How high they will grow is anyone’s guess, but right now, they show no signs of stopping.

    BM can boast about IR all day long, but is the thought of BW doing it in larger numbers a bit

    unsettling for you?

    Did you really think that the status quo would remain the same?

    Did you believe that BW would really believe that no one else wanted them?

    You should know BW better than that!

    • Kitana

      They know that is true that the more black women are open to other men, the more options they have and way more likely to get married. That is why every article written by black men tries to convince black women that marriage is hard to obtain or out of reach. It is if you only stick with the brothers. Other than that it is fair game for a black woman that interracially date. Also, black women dating out has increased in the past few years. The next census will show that for sure. My friend is a Polish professional wedding photographer and he said he even noticed an increase of his clients being black women with different race husbands.

      • Cinnamonshorty

        Your post is dead on! That is all I was trying to express. When the 2020 census is released, it will only confirm what people have been seeing with their own eyes, that BW marriage rates will have increased across the board. IRBW level the playing field and many BM are trying hard not to compete for BW, because they know there stock will go down with all women.
        So busy bashing BW thinking that it would be business as usual, but things change and they are changing for the
        better with BW.

  • Kristin

    I think Black men do such a better job at not caring about race or letting that deter them from getting into a relationship with someone. Black women should take notes. I understand that we all have a personal preference when it comes to attraction, but so often I hear black women say that they wouldn't consider dating white, hispanic, asian. This really limits our dating (and eventually marriage) pool. If there are more black men out there than women, and even smaller percentage of those would be considerable for marriage, what happens when those guys date and marry outside their race? They are expanding their options while we are limiting ours. Be down for the swirl ladies!Be open!

    • Junior Johnson

      I admit that in a utopia, that would be nice. But you forget that for alot of black people, having black children is important; alot of people love their race and do not want bi-racial children.

  • http://queenofthewest.tumblr.com Joy

    This article is nice and objective, but I feel like it doesn't even touch on the very huge issue of internalized racism.

  • Miss Jo

    I think this a great article and an honest perspective on black male and female relationships. I think we as black people are too hard on ourselves and each other. My theory is, when you have a group of people (black) who live in a society, culture, environment etc. that is not designed "for" them. It produces a stress that other ethnicities do not have. The social-economic factor and the fact that black men are effeminized is a huge contributory factor. You have women in male roles and this is unnatural(single mothers, incarcerated men, homosexual men, impoverished). You have men in feminine roles (incarceration, homosexual, dependent, lack of opportunity and employment). There alone creates a stress that causes us to socialize different in general. You have women are out of their natural roles as nurturers and men are out of their natural roles as providers and protectors. Our whole dynamic in socialization with each other and the world for that matter will be different, unorthodox, aggressive women, passive men. So as a people we have the raw end of the deal in society, and the bottom line is it IS NOT totally a fault to black men or black women
    Be Bless We are Beautiful and We are Loved!
    LawStu13

    • Offthepink

      From what I can see, black people with chips on their shoulders create problems for themselves that hinder racial co-existence. Every culture has been crapped on, but when black people have a chip on their shoulder about it, they get in their own way, getting angry because nobody feels sorry for us. Those of us who let the past stay there go on and do just fine, often facing resentment from our ghetto counterparts about “acting white” (basically getting along with whites, who to the ghetto mind are ALL the eternal enemy, with no problems), whereas a ghetto black person feels they have to “go off” on white people from time to time to reclaim their “blackness” and “remind them they’re still dealing with a REAL nigga”. They felt they were getting too comfortable around caucasians, so they manufactured hostility to keep themselves apart. THEN, ironically, they claim that (because nobody likes drama, and everyone in their right mind limits their dealings with an angry black person who seems to have a racial agenda) they’re being ostracized because they’re black, not because of their antisocial and hostile behavior, and thinks the blacks that have no trouble getting along just fine are accepted because they’re subservient/a good slave, the white people don’t have anything to fear from them, etc. I see this all the time where I work. The ghetto ebonics-speakers have to throw tantrums and act like angry children over innocent incidents (that were really not incidents in the first place until the brother got offended over nothing, or a common phrase that he had never heard before, and thought it meant something racial), while the well spoken black guys, myself among them get along without a ripple and fit in without causing a ripple. This culture works for everyone, as evidenced by every race, even our own getting ahead one generation after they come here…but those of use who’ve been here allow the past to hold us back, then blame our lack of progress and success on everyone but who we should: ourselves.

  • Junior Johnson

    I think from a black male's perspective, we do not see the benefit in marriage. It seems to be merely a contract. Not one person on this message board posted about another negative that comes from marriage and why people of all races are boycotting it. Divorce! Lifetime alimony! One failed marriage can mean a life of financial ruin for a bread winner.

  • Dee Dee

    When you look at the State of Black Men's Plight and he fact that Black women are graduating from college at higher rates, acquire more wealth then it simply makes sense to date/marry out and you'll get married.

    Bottom line is like it or not despite Black women's achievements being "married is Foundation of the community its something that GOD designed not man! The reasons why the Black community is suffering is because of "lack of marriage and all of these OOW kids".

    Facts is that Black man in the articles said "Black men have a list of demands" when the average Black man brings 350% less than other races of men bring to the table! Most Black men have been raised by Single parents and they want you do to "Everything for them" like their Mothers did! When you do them and be the breadwinner you still haven't earned your respect!

    Maybe it time to call it quits on Black men and date/marry out or "Move on" until black men learn to respect themselves! I

    Me and my friends all attractive, educated with good paying jobs made bets to "move on' date/marry out. Out of 15 women, 6 got married to White men on their level or higher. Other races believe in marriage even if Black men don't ! The attitude that they can treat Black women disrespectful derive from Black men's misogynistic, sexist attitudes and sub human behaviors.

    If you open yourself to better options and make an effort you'll find better! I think its funny how Black men who bring so little to the table and have the highest negative stats have so many demands. When I look at other races their women are Fat, Not perfect yet their men provide, protect and lead but Black males don't!

    The high negative stats on Black males and if your educated, do you want to date/marry someone who has a felony? (1 in 3 BM), or at high risk for AIDS/HIV/STDS, doesn't marry at almost 80% ? What about Black men living off you which is common in the black race as well as you being the breadwinner?

    All of these stats are negative! If you work hard on your life, making good choices. Why would accept so little?

    Date/marry out and stop wasting time with men who have "No Fathers" which is why they don't feel that "Respecting a woman is worth it" . What marriage really is is all about "I respect you enough to make you a part of my life" rather than use you!

    If you open yoru options your chances increase for marriage! Half o my GF are dark skin and they married White males who don't make "shelf hating remarks'" or try to live off or use you like most Black men do.

    To be honest, I think that Black men have collectively engrained that black women are only to be used cheated on and abandoned like their Fathers did to Black women. They want you to be alone like hteir Mothers so they can use you!

    Black men practice what they've seen all their lives not what this fool is saying! You can run a 1,0000 laps and if Black man orientation by environment is to use Black women that's what they do!

    Be yourself and Move on!

    • cjay

      dee dee pls send me an email. I really like to speck to you pvtly in relation to some insights on your comment. pls send a text. ill really apreciate it. ceej44ymail.com plz dont ignore my plight, your response is very important to me.

    • cjay

      dee dee my addy is ceej44 at ymail.com . change only the at, leave the rest as is and i shall recieve your email if/when u send me any.

  • http://yahoo.com kingsley

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  • icaresoverydeeply
  • happily married

    Passionate writing but fact free.
    1. Ratio of bw:bm is 10:9 or 5:4 depending on your references. Enough black men to go round and for the 10-20% of women who can't find any- enter in Latinos and Caucasians to make up the balance. The world is still 50.5-49.5% women to men overall.
    2. Women are the custodians of sex, marriage and the home. They decide all 3.
    This speaks for itself look around. Men are always asking, women decide if they want it or not. Men don't decide when it's time to have sex, women do. When has a woman said it's time and the man says no I have a headache.
    3. Women do things for self-benefit. She doesn't expect to provide for a man when she is stepping into a relationship. White women have changed that stereotype cos' they realize that the more degrees and jobs they get, there will come a time women out earn men. Y'all can't have fancy degrees and fat incomes and all still expect to marry up ALL the time. THIS IS THE BLACK WOMAN'S ACHILLES HEEL….money.
    It is off no benefit for an AA woman making $100,000 to marry a man making $50,000 at least not in her mind. The few black women who have done it are married and happy…even though they pay more than their FAIR share of the bills…men have been doing it for centuries so stop sulking. I have white female colleagues with stay at home husbands, or those who make very little part time. My black female colleagues have all kicked their men out lol.
    4. MOST IMPORTANT: the very women who complain of men not hanging around to raise their kids, fast forward one generation are the same women telling their sons, 'Just because you got her pregnant doesn't mean you should marry her' or 'hey, son here's some money for condoms, these girls are no good just don'tget them pregnant, mum loves u muah'
    5. Finally, women of color need to pretend more…pretend until you're married then you can unleash the independent, angry, uncompromising, non-smiling and hollering angel inside you. The first or second or third date is not the time to declare to a suitor how strong and no-BS you are. You'll frighten him off lol.
    White women are just like you, but they smile and courtsy, and act cool till that ring is snugly in place.

  • s. smalls

    Where are the actual stat's on this b/c this def's EVERYTHING I have ever EMPIRICALLY ever seen

  • Tony

    Yet another milk-toast editorial on black social relations…this article went absolutely no where. The problem isn't income disparity or lack of suitable partners. The problem is this corporate construct we refer to as "black culture", that disparages intellect but promotes gangsterism. Black women have been fooled into seeking out the lowest common denominator when it comes to men, but somehow can't seem to figure out where things went wrong? Since when did dating "thugs" become the basis for raising a family? Name one other race anywhere in the world that seeks out the least suitable, most rudderless individual one can find to procreate with. Who else does this!? I know many women who bounce from thug to thug, expecting the next time will be different, acting out the very definition of insanity. And to make matters worse, black women seem to have adopted their own version of gangsterism. I can't count how many times I've stood in line at the checkout behind a white guy, and the black female clerk who was just friendly and polite a minute ago, is now rude and dismissive when it's my turn at the register. Like, wtf is that? Attitude doesn't = strength. And if you view every encounter with a member of the opposite sex as an opportunity to blow some steam, then you don't need a man you need a matador, because that's some bulls***.

  • Bill Dixon

    I am tired of women talking about men being intimidated by them. I personally have never been intimidated by any one. Women need to realize that men don't care about what you drive, where you live, or where you work. You just have to be open to being approached and many black women aren't. I am a black man who personally choose to only date black women. I am not open to anything else but the women I date must have room for me in their lives or else let's just be friends and keep it moving.That seems to be more of an issue than this other stuff.

  • mic

    Hello All. i am black male. I have no children. If bw date outside their race I think it offers great education. Black women have never shown me any interest personally because I do not have enough swag but I am not bitter I am prepared to die single and lonely.because there are some white women I would never date neither.

    Just a tip for bw: dont ever tell your white man or anyone for that matter that you only date wm because you hate black men

  • Trina

    Ppl are right, marriage isn’t a piece of paper, it’s a level of commitment and not to be compared to the living arrangement that currently suits your pretend HUS-band you play HOUSe with.

    Why should any woman wait for shifty man who after 4-5 years doesn’t know if he wants to marry her??? I’m almost 27. When I was younger I was believing that I would be married with a child by now. I have not accomplished any of those things yet but in time it will happen, and when it does it will not be paramount to winning the lottery.

    I personally can’t see ANY man of any race with even sub-clinical levels of testosterone and one testicle being in a relationship with me for that long b/c I don’t see a man going that long without sex. Yes, you read right. Our bodies aren’t rent-to-own. Not to be crude: I’m not renting my pussy out hoping a negro will try it, like it, then buy it. What is between my legs will only belong to a man who has made the conscious spiritual and emotions investment necessary of a husband to a wife. Period.

    Sure, if you are with what is now the avg. man in our culture and you have standards that exclude sex outside marriage…he’ll leave humping out the door with the next woman that will say yes but then, unless you exist in some kind of fairytale world like the woman above who kept the good fight with some man who slept in her bed, slobbered all over her pillows, and was all in her refrigerator eating all the cheese sticks, and drinking up all the juicy juice…. If you don’t requiem more for yourself, he will be moved by your self-sacrifice and will throw you a bone and marry you. Yeeeeah right.

    If women who desired marriage banded together and put a freeze on sex outside of marriage, men would get it together awfully quick. They take the option to not marry you bc you give it to them. Yea we should probably quit that sistas

  • Trina

    @mic…I don’t care if you wear your mixed match high watered pants all the way up to your arm pits and have just as much “swag” (whatever…seriously) as Steve Urckle trust and believe there are Black women out here who would find it a dream to meet an honest, decent, respectful, avg. looking but still attractive, God fearing Black man. I’ve said too I’m prepared to be single forever, but I’ve made up my mind I don’t expect to be. Don’t settle for loneliness! Good Black women are out there. Find us!