3 Things Men Get Wrong with Women That We Need to Stop

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things men get wrong with women

I think it’s important that we realize that a lot of the behavior that goes on between both genders is predicated on the simple premise that it’s allowed. Just like most women will see another woman doing something wrong and choose to disassociate before mentoring, men will do the same. I can’t count the number of times that I have heard about behavior in men that was unbecoming and people just walked away. I also hear women complain about men, but they never tell the man directly. For example, an attractive man who is bad in bed. He continues to sleep with tons of women because no woman wants to actually tell him he’s bad in bed.

In the interest of equity, I’ll offer up three things men get wrong with women that affects our collective reputation.

As men, we’ve got to stop doing less because less is required.

I remember when I was younger and I would try really hard only to see someone put in way less effort and get better results. Yes, that’s about women. I came to the weak conclusion that I wasn’t going to put in the effort if the reward goes to someone who didn’t put in as much effort. And yeah, that works because you know at a certain point all men realize that women will put up with a bunch of shit or a lack of shit to have a man around. As I got older, I realized how dumb this logic was and stopped that behavior. There’s a reason why we acknowledge unsung heroes. That means the fellas have to start putting the effort in even when it’s not required and sometimes never appreciated. The ones who don’t put in effort reinforce the collective image that as men are lazy, don’t want to court, and won’t put in effort because there are SO many options available to us.

Along the same lines, this roaming classification of women has to stop.

I remember Wale saying or hinting to the fact that he loves women but hates bitches. Now what happens in those circumstances when men classify women like that is that they respect one and don’t respect the other. Then there’s this subjective system that we use to classify women and then some get respect and others don’t based on the weather or some odd criteria. How about we just respect all women? I know that we feel that some people don’t deserve respect, but it’s better to give respect to someone who doesn’t deserve it than to ever be disrespectful. Moreover, when we have this loose classification system it makes us look like we’re finding ways to justify our bad behavior when we shouldn’t.

I said something before about women who try and sell sex for profit or to get fast money. Well… 

I think we need to address the men who will use their money to attract women and not hard work, chivalry, personality and other good qualities.

I find it disgusting when a man uses his money to buy friends or keep company of anyone. That’s men and women because I know some men who will use their money to have themselves surrounded by male friends. However, when it comes to women, it sets up this system where some women feel the need to seek a man for money or go out of their way to attract this type of man.

You have women out there playing the field getting advice like, “show some skin” or “go out with him so we can get in the club for free.” That’s bad business for us. It also makes men who spend money on women in an honest way seem like we’re trying to impress her with our money instead of with our appreciation of her. If all you have to offer women is money, save your money. The rest of us are focused on self-growth and development and we think it’s way cooler.

As I said in another post, men have to realize that when they do these things and attract the attention that comes along with it, it doesn’t make men look any better. It makes us seem vapid and empty; or, like we don’t have a lot of substantive behavior. Women will throw around terms like male privilege to describe our success and virtue; they’ll stop giving us credit for things that we actually work hard for and accomplish (Then we sound like male chauvinists for arguing that we worked hard for it and while male privilege does exist, some accomplishments are on merit).

Also, as a man, I don’t want to contribute to the degradation of women or downgrading their value. If they would like to do that on their own, that’s fine. I want to go back to a time when being a man meant something. I think we can be old-fashioned in the good ways and be forward thinking in all the things that history screwed up in the past. I just don’t want to hear any more women asking questions like, “When did men stop being men?”

 Dr. J

I guess my only question is do you think that a small (or big) population of men is ruining the image of the group? Also, how does it feel to have to ask or be asked, “When did men stop being men?” What are some ways that we can be supportive of each other without raising (in the sense of a father) one another?

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  • Relationship King

    Although it may not always feel as though it is appreciated, men who put in effort always end up being the ones who win in the end. Ladies always like to feel appreciated and that they are not taken for granted so by putting in an effort this is definately one of those cases where a little goes a long way.
    My recent post Getting Over Your Ex (For Good!)

  • Adonis

    Worst post ever. I do what works in life. My life was a cesspool BECAUSE that doing what you advise in this post.

    Chuck that unsung hero ish. Women demand the men we have now based on who they give their bodies & attention to. They bore children with these men. That is a thunderous affirmation in my book

    If they truly were outraged by the sub-par class of men in this life, THE WOMEN would MODIFY their behavior to achieve their desired ends.

    End of story.

  • troy

    Not the worst ever but I am in complete agrement.
    "If they truly were outraged by the sub-par class of men in this life, THE WOMEN would MODIFY their behavior to achieve their desired ends."
    Thats the entire counter argument to this article right there.

    • Bree

      If our human behavior is dependent on the behavior of one another, we're in a sad sad state.
      Women could change their behavior today or tomorrow. "Boys" will still be "Boys."

      • Ozone

        That is a weak and concreteless argument.

      • troy

        Boys will grow into men when demand occurs. When women stop running after "boys" the men will appear.
        isnt all human behavior based on a previous human's behavior? Miss Bree youve been influenced by every person you've met and haven't meet you think all your ideas and thoughts are novel? heresy.

        • Bree

          Just because a person influences you, doesn't necessarily mean you have to become like them. You can take what resonates most with you and make it your own unique style. Too many prototypes out here, and not enough individuals. And no I haven't been influenced by Everyone I've met. I have learned something from most everyone I've met. I choose what I will and will not take from people. I make my choices and decisions. If I mess I mess up, not my mom or dad or "the devil made me do it." Again people have to start taking responsibility for their own actions. That's where growth comes from. If we continue to blame other people for our short-comings, and never look in the mirror there will never be any real mental, emotional, spiritual, and intellectual growth. ijs.

        • Adonis

          @troy said it best @bree

          There is no demand for grown men. If there was, grown men would appear.

          We just want men to do the grunt work without rewarding such men.

          "You are living in a fantasy." -Hollis Doyle

        • RealTalk

          End of discussion, quite frankly.

  • Bree

    What are some ways that we can be supportive of each other without raising (in the sense of a father) one another?
    As K. Michelle says in her latest single, "You Can't Raise A Man."
    "Listen,
    He got older, but never grew,
    For his life he can't tell the truth.
    How to love he ain't got a clue,
    Playing games like he'll never lose you.
    Try to talk to him, can't get through,
    Every day he's a different dude.
    These are the signs of a grown ass boy,
    Better run for the hills,
    I'm just trying to keep it real.
    You can't raise a man.
    He's already grown, what you gonna do?
    You wonder why he acts like a boy.
    It's 'cause he wasn't raised right before you
    Girl, you ain't never gonna change nobody,
    If he don't wanna, you can't make nobody.
    'Cause you can't raise a man, no, no."
    True Lyrics.

    • Jay

      @Bree It's awesome how you quote a song meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator of Black Women: the Basic Bitches.

      REAL Women, aka "Spartans"(shout out to NC-17), don't identify with with this song OR your thinking, because she makes it perfectly clear from "hello" that she doesn't entertain the "game" that "boys" spit. She demands a MAN step to her, and thus never has to worry about problems with peons.

      Dave Chappelle said it best: "Men have nice cars. Not because THEY like nice cars, but because WOMEN like nice cars." If women in general demanded that nothing less than a REAL MAN step to them REGARDLESS of the looks, income, or sex game that a "boy" may bring to the table, there would be a LOT less women complaining about these "boys".

      • Bree

        Jay, many men have nice cars because they truly do love nice cars, as much as they love women. And nice, fast, pretty, classic cars is a hobby for them. I know many men with classic, beautiful, garage kept cars that they love working on, and even enter into car shows.
        lol @ "Spartans."
        Here is what u may not understand. Sometimes the way a person starts off treating you, is not how they end up treating you. From what I've seen and heard, most men start off treating a woman great. Over time they do less and less. Most women don't really have the time or patience to have to constantly demand that a man keep up everything he started in the beginning of the relationship; especially if they have kids and work to tend. What more men need to work on is their CONSISTENCY. Having a strong finish, and continuing to treat the woman like a queen. However, if a man is only after 1 thing, then treating the woman good is a means to an end. Granted the sensible, thing to do would be to tell a man to kick rocks as soon as he starts slacking. However, that's easier said than done when she has put in a few years with that man, possibly has a child/children with him, and loves him, and is in love with him.
        And no I'm not making excuses for women, just stating reasons why.

        • Adonis

          @bree

          I get all this if they are married, which happens.

          But alot of these scenarios are pre-marital, so that is on the woman.

        • Jay

          But that's the key to successful marriage: being the person your spouse fell in love with, and becoming someone she loves even more. I'm married, so I get that.

          BUT there's a difference between not going out on dates with your legal husband as much because your kids have school tomorrow, and your "hubby" not calling you for two weeks because "you trippin"

          The actual husband is still being what she demanded from him from the start: a good man. While the "hubby" is exposing his true colors.

          I don't think it's that difficult to see those true colors without years or children. I refuse to believe that even 1% of these boys have Frank Underwood-level deception skills.

          No one said walking away from a relationship is easy, but if you don't take yourself or well being seriously, then no one will.

          Yes. There are guys that just like nice cars, me being one of them, BUT I have to accept that MOST men want cars NOT because they are wonderful machines, but because they look more attractive driving/owning them.

  • http://www.opinionatedmale.com cortonio

    I think women have stopped, or slowed down on making men accountable, and making men work. I mean regardless of anything how many women are ready to give us pu$$y real quick, how many women have been put in the 'baby mamma' box? How many women with children are– or at least were married?–especially in the black community. We as people have to stop settling and push each other. So as much as men may have their shortcomings I feel it works both ways
    My recent post If Florida Is The Sunshine State, Why Is It So Cloudy For African Americans?

    • sincereluv4life

      @ Cortonio:

      yes to all of this!

    • Bree

      Cortonio we all have to be accountable for our own deeds. Men have to stop saying if women did this or that. What your basically saying is women have to treat you like little boys and chastise you and punish you when you wrong them. Here's the thing though. You shouldn't be wronging women in the first place. Grown, mature, responsible men do not do Anyone wrong. They make good decisions. They think about things before they do them. They don't cry, pout, bitch, moan, complain, lie, cheat and steal when they do not get their way. How you Choose to act, and carry yourself as a man has little to nothing to do with the women you date. You make your life choices. Those life choices shouldn't be dependent on how you are treated. They should be based on your own mentality and how you choose to define yourself and how you want people to see you.
      What many people don't realize is this: Males who are really boys, and not Mature Men will be who they are regardless of who they're with. "Boys" will treat a woman working in Corporate American making close 2 six figures with 2 college degrees, who was raised in a 2 parent white picket fence household, who is classy, and goes to church every sunday like a $2.00 hoe. Has nothing to do with the woman, it's the man. We cannot change men's behavior, they as grown adult men need to take the initiative to change their own behavior. Boys have to grow up. Their mentality has to change. They have to decide to stop their immature & irresponsible behavior and be grown azz men. They have to want to change their ways and behavior. Just like men say "you can't turn a hoe into a housewife," you can't make a boy be a man. He has to want to be a man and want to take on the responsibilities of a man.

      • Bree

        Too many times we classify all types of men as men. All men are Not created equal. Some males are grown children, and some are grown men.
        What more ladies need to do is choose more grown men, instead of grown children.

      • sincereluv4life

        @ Bree

        “”Boys” will treat a woman working in Corporate America making close 2 six figures with 2 college degrees, who was raised in a 2 parent white picket fence household, who is classy, and goes to church every sunday like a $2.00 hoe.”

        only if that woman lets him. This has happened to myself & other women I know & although those men were no good, We stayed and accepted less than treatment despite our internal warnings and external warnings from friends & family. Every woman knows when she is settling. When we see we’re not being treated correctly we can either continue or opt out. I’ve learned some things & I opt out at the sight of men who don’t know my worth. That’s me as a grown woman taking responsibility for my actions. There are just too many good men out there, we as women do not need to settle. I think that’s all Cortonio was getting at- correct me if I’m off tho.

        • http://www.opinionatedmale.com cortonio
        • Bree

          I agree sincereluv with you. However, that is not what I believe Cortonio is saying. I've known men who were a##holes to pretty much any woman they were with. The woman made no difference. Women do not control how men act. People do not control how you act and what you do. We all have Self Control. Men control how they act. When a man is ready to straighten up and fly right he will. The right woman at the right time can inspire & encourage him to want to be better. If he wants that woman badly enough he will do whatever he has to do to gain her trust and love.
          However there are men who are content with who they are and have no intentions of changing for any woman.There are men who do just enough to get the woman, keep her happy for a hot minute and keep her from leaving him, then they go right back to their old ways.
          I think Jim Jones is a prime example of this. I think he would be the same man he is no matter what woman he was with. Jim Jones is not ready to marry Chrissy or any other woman. Who knows he may never want to get married. No woman is going to change that. When he is good and ready to get married for whatever reason, he will. Until then, he won't. Chrissy I think knows this. She doesn't want to live without Jim, which is why she hasn't left him. I think she knows that if she did leave Jim he would simply move on to another woman and keep on doin his thing. He may miss her. But she cannot force him to do anything he doesn't want to.
          Men, why do you insist on making women think they have more power over you than they really do. Please stop. ijs.

        • Bree

          I agree sincereluv. My point though is that man will still be who he is. And if 10 women say no to him and don't put up with his bs, he will keep on keepin on until he finds 1 who will.
          Women haven't stayed with cheating men because they wanted to, they did it because they felt like they had to. They stayed because they knew that whether they were with that man or not, he was going to cheat because that's exactly what he wanted to do. There was nothing they could do to stop him from cheating or keep him from cheating. Their only options were to leave him alone, or stay and accept the cheating. Many women choose to stay and accept it.
          How people see you doesn't always have to do with you and how you present yourself. You can be an absolute treasure, yet certain people will treat you like trash because of their clouded vision. It doesn't mean you aren't a treasure, it just means all that person sees in most everyone is trash. Has nothing to do with you. It's all on them.

      • http://www.opinionatedmale.com cortonio

        no i'm not saying women have to treat men like that, what I'm saying is women should have higher standards when it comes to men. Like not falling for the man because he has a big wallet or johnson, not falling for the 'bad boy' types, want a man that has the same goals, values, and norms that you cherish.Not sleeping or falling for a man because of your own lack of self esteem or insecurities. Now I'm not saying women have to have standards through the roof because not all men are the same. One thing I have learned when it comes to our brothers and sisters is that if you take yourself seriously so will everyone else.
        My recent post If Florida Is The Sunshine State, Why Is It So Cloudy For African Americans?

        • Bree

          Honestly Cortonio, most women I know simply want a man with sex appeal, and a good paying job making an honest living. Someone that's considerate, romantic, chivalrous, kind, caring, a good father, attentive, and that looks good. Yes women also want a man who can please her sexually; or at least make an effort to, and be open-minded in the bedroom. Just like men like attractive women; women like attractive men. So yes, women are highly likely to go for men that are physically appealing to them; just as men go for women who are physically appealing to them. The problem with this is, on both sides, the person that looks good on the outside, isn't always good on the inside. Women don't necessarily want to marry thugs and "bad boys." They just want strong men with backbones. Women look for men to fulfill their creation roles, Protect & Provide. When you simplify it, that's it, and that's all.

        • Adonis

          And seek attractive men, they are at their mercy, so if it does not end well, it is 100% on her.

        • Bree

          Cortonio, exactly what type of woman would you allow to impose "standards" on you?
          What specific standards would you adhere to? Many men find it very difficult, and almost impossible to adhere to all of the standards that the average woman has. Do you know what some women want and expect from men? It's a lot. If most women's standards were simple and easy it wouldn't be a problem. Did it ever occur to you that the standards of women are out of the scope of the average male?
          If a woman demanded that you never look at or think about another woman, whether your with her or not, never think about cheating on her, never cheat on her, never ever lie to her, make her feel like she is the only woman in your world, put her first in all aspects of your life, always open every door for her when your with her, and always pull out her chair, and some other stuff could you honestly do that and maintain it for years and years???? Quite frankly, some women's "standards" are so stringent, that in adhering to them the man loses who he really is, and what makes him a man. I think Dr. J's 3 points are valid and these are things men need to work on. However, playing "devils advocate" for a minute; several men have told me that they have went all out with certain women, and in return those women gave them nothing but stress, and their azz to kiss. Now whose fault is that…….? ijs.

    • Bree

      Cortonio, I know several women who have tried for many many many years to make a man accountable and guess what……………..he does right for a while to appease her and shut her up, and then he goes right back to his wicked ways and does whatever the hell he wants to do. If a person is selfish and think they're all good then you can't make them be anything. In their mind there is nothing wrong and nothing for you to fix. So your just wasting your time and energy. Sometimes all you do when you push is push a person out. The main thing high standards get you is a really good process of elimination technique. But then your left with literally a handful of "nice guys" that your not feeling, don't like and just can't get into. And of all people, "nice guys" definitely do not deserve to have to deal with women who merely "settled" for him, and sees him as a consolation prize.
      In situations where a man does change for the better, realistically this can take several years. And that woman had to have the patience, time, strength and unconditional and everlasting love to go through the fire with that man. She had to have the faith of Job to believe that in time he would change for the better. Not too many people have that level of patience and perseverance to go to hell and back with a person; unless it's a blood relative.

      • Jay

        @Bree in your comment, lies the real reason these "boys" are winning: women put up with it. Instead of just saying to themselves: "Maybe the kind of men I've grown to like aren't conducive to my well being", they throw the blinders on, declare that "I like what I like" and continue their self-righteous quest of "changing" him. If "high standards" always leave you with only the "nice guys" you are not attracted to, then that's says your " current preferences" are unhealthy. Maybe you need to do some soul searching and self meditation to find out why GOOD MEN (not "nice guys") are unattractive to you.

        • Bree

          Jay, attraction is all relative depending on the individual. If a woman likes tall fit athletic masculine men, then that's physically what that woman likes. Remember good-looking people are told by many people daily how good they look. Their looks get them a lot of passes from a lot of people; not just in dating situations. Therefore, they may be more likely to do what they want with little to no regard for other peoples feelings simply because they can. Whereas, average looking people have to work harder and do more for acceptance to compensate for their lack of good looks. Let's be real; Kevin Hart has to work much harder than Boris Kodjoe to get the type of beautiful model type chicks that he is attracted to. Boris Kodjoe didn't even speak English when he first came to this country in his 20's. He's German. But most women wouldn't give a damn. They simply want him because he is very easy on the eyes. If Kevin Hart was a regular guy from Philly working for UPS or Fed-Ex 9 times out of 10 he would not be able to pull the same type of women that Boris Kodjoe can. Even if Boris was a UPS or Fed-Ex guy and couldn't speak a English good. Standards have nothing to do with physical attraction. 2 different things. Everybody, men & women will notice the most physically attractive people to them. It's human nature.

        • Bree

          And "boys" aren't necessarily winning. Good-looking, tall, sexy, fine azz men are winning, (same as beautiful women do). They are getting women because they also have mad sex appeal, swag on a 1000 and exude power. Jay-Z may not be Boris or Morris; but he's tall, talented, exudes strength, masculinity, power and has sex appeal. (The money doesn't hurt either). Jay the most beautiful and best looking people have always been "winning" and always will. This is nothing new under the sun. Every human being likes to look at beautiful things, including people.

        • Jay

          The ability to see a good LOOKING person and be mature enough to KNOW that they may not be a good PERSON is the key. Men will talk about how they accept nothing less than "Meagan Goods" until they're blue in the face, but ask a man about the woman he just married. He'll say she's beautiful, but 99 times out of 100, she wasn't the "dime" he fantasized about marrying 10 years prior. Is he "settling"? Of course not. He is re-prioritizing what is truly important in a mate. Not her a** isn't "phat" like Trina, but he can talk to her about anything. No, she's not shaped like a coke bottle, but he knows she'll be the best mother to his kids. I'm a prime example: I declared at age 20 that I will only marry a "redbone" with a phat-azz and they CANNOT be over 5'7". Fast forward six years later and I'm happily married to a thin, 6ft deep chocolate sister. What happened? I grew up. AND I STILL DID NOT SETTLE. I accepted that what I think my "dream girl" should look like should NEVER take precedence over what kind of person she should be. Just because most of the female population goes ga-ga over Boris Kodjoe, doesn't mean you have to lower your standards of being treated properly because dude's eyes are just that sexy. And not even 1% of men "charm" their way to success in life anyway. Boris may make a living off of looking good, but all YOU see is the glamour and expensive toys. You don't see the tiring weeks, tough business decisions, and strains that have been placed on his marriage. Too many women are too willing to hand unworthy men the keys to the castle simply because of how good looking they think their kids will look. Too many women lower their standard of what kind of PERSON their man should be, just so that they won't have to lower their expectation of what they're dream guy should LOOK like.

          I am attracted to beautiful women…BUT I think with my BRAIN, not my d*ck.

        • RealTalk

          YES!

        • Jay

          And it's interesting you bring up Kodjoe and Jay-Z:

          Who are they married to again?

          And I'm sure BOTH of those women could do "better" as far as looks/money is concerned (Jay-Z is not even in the Top ONE-HUNDRED of richest people in America)

  • sincereluv4life

    “I would try really hard only to see someone put in way less effort and get better results.”

    It depends on what type of results a guy wants. If he wants sex & ego boosts from women w/ low self esteem then the less effort the better. If he wants something more w/ a quality woman who is sure of herself, then he’d do better to put his best foot forward. Women who know their worth aren’t gonna put up with the bs.

  • http://www.lifeisablast.org paynewell

    It comes to accountability. People (men and women) don't want to take accountability for their actions. They feel better with the thoughts of "if she/he lets me do it then why not?" or "that's not my problem". I think there are plenty of situations where I could just be a b word and ruin a lot of relationships treat men any old kind of way. However, I choose to not be that person because I believe in what goes around comes around. People need to do better, not because of what others will think, but because it's the right thing to do.

    So often are posts about what wrong things women are doing, but never what wrong things men do. It's like the blame is solely on women when it's a mutual thing. I truly believe that guys today are putting in less effort to get women, because there are some women who allow less. Then when they meet someone with standards, she's stuck up or whatever. Both genders could use some self reflection and re-evaluation.

    • SMilez_920

      THIS^^^^^^^^^ if your a man and you mess with women with "low standards" then your're no better than they are.

      • Bree

        True That.

    • http://stanoffewwords.wordpress.com Tristan.

      Pretty much
      My recent post Today’s Word is… ONLINE

    • J. Crawford

      There's ALWAYS post about what Men Don't Do…….. Never has there been a deeper look as to WHY Women go for Bad Boys or Ain't Sh!t Men and what They Learned from the Consequences of Choosing Them. We Don't Do that BECAUSE there is Zero Accountability, just that "Men Lied This" and "Guys Tricked Me That", and yet when Guys make the SAME Statement we get "Well, Wrap it Up" ' Don't Trust those Hoes" etc. Can the Same be Said to Women? Is there ANY Time that Women can EVER take Responsibility- or Women can Agree that More Ladies NEED to take Umbrage of THEIR Actions and Choices to Lay Down, Trust and/or Believe in Frowzy Men????

      • http://twitter.com/IAmRichJones @IAmRichJones

        Cmon fam. Don't be intellectually lazy. I just ran a quick google search of "why women go for bad boys" and a bunch of articles popped up…including Psychology Today and AskMen. I get the perspective you're coming from. But I think both genders do a lot of finger pointing and it doesn't get us anywhere. Are you saying you want to see women write about their dating mistakes?
        My recent post 018: Grumpy Old Men

        • RealTalk

          To be fair, the majority of those articles are recent (within the past 3 or 4 years). There has always been an imbalance of literature when it comes to who gets blamed more, with the male-bashing/criticizing articles HEAVILY outweighing the female-criticizing articles. And it's been like that for the past 20 or so years. It's only been very recently where there's been some push back by men (FINALLY!). And this is before we start talking about movies and TV shows….

          C'mon fam. Don't be intellectually lazy.

        • http://twitter.com/IAmRichJones @IAmRichJones

          K.
          My recent post 018: Grumpy Old Men

        • Bree

          A friend of mine told me recently – "People don't get married anticipating getting divorced." Well, just like people don't get married thinking they will get divorced, I doubt very seriously women get with "ain't sh##" men, fall in love with them, lay with them and have children by them knowing this is how they are going in. I don't know anyone who fell in love with someone when they were an a##hole. Even men in jail typically present themselves to women as "the victim" who the whte man is tryin to keep down. And women end up feeling sorry for them. Let's be real, most relationships Do Not start off horrible, despite the fact that they may end up that way later on.

        • RealTalk

          Bree,

          what you're doing is exactly what male posters in this thread are complaining about. your post was a classic deflection. let's stay on topic.

          J. Crawford made a great point about why society/people do not examine why and how women get with undeserving men. While you did make the point that most relationships don't start off badly, etc., it's unreasonable to believe that, after spending time with a person, you CANNOT pick up what kind of person he or she is. nobody is able to mask their true character/personality after more than a few exchanges.

          Which tells me one of two things about women: either 1. they're willfully blind to the negative traits/characteristics of "ain't s***" men or 2. they're rushing into having sex/coupling up with those "ain't s***" men way too soon (and not giving themselves the chance to know who they're truly involved with).

          Either way, everything points back to the women. Women choose. And unfortunately, a lot of times, women make bad choices in men. And when they're confronted with this truth, they start bloviating and deflecting back to men.

          The day women take accountability for their decisions and actions will be the same day our community can look forward to progress.

        • Bree

          Real, yes your 2 reasons do apply to some people, not everyone though.
          As I previously stated, the only simple clear-cut answer to men changing their ways for the better is Not simply for women to no longer tolerate any type of bad behavior whatsoever. If you have a group of men who are immature and have no desire to do right, what makes you so sure that all women have to do is demand that they do right. And what makes you think women haven't been already doing that for centuries. Blaming women for the immaturity & bad behavior of some men just further corroborates men's immaturity. Much like a child. Spanking, and punishing some children does not always make them do better in school and behave. They have to be the ones who want to do good. They have to want it for themselves. As hard as my older cousin worked to keep my younger cousin out of trouble and in school, she still got in trouble and quit school. Like almost 10 years later she went back and got her GED and went to community college. It had to be when She was ready, not anyone else.
          So my point is, grown azz men will do what their supposed to do when they are good and ready to. Not necessarily when a woman demands that they do.
          If today or tomorrow 95% of women started with-holding sex from the men they dated and demanded everything they wanted from them early, all it would do is piss men off, and their brains would work OT to find ways around it or they would all try to get with the 5% that still put up with some bs. And a majority of women will stay single off the strength of a battle of wills, and men vs women ish but for so long.
          Women will get horny and want "the comfort of a man." That's real talk.

        • Bree

          Trust me, if what your saying to do was that easy and simple, most All women would have been doing it since the beginning of time. It's not that simple, don't kid yourselves.

        • https://www.facebook.com/john.shannon.967 John Shannon

          i don't doubt that there are some articles, but how many DON'T have a man as the Source or #1 Problem in their lives or a factor in Their Choices and/or Behavior??? If a Guy- Any Guy, even Any SBM writer in here, including you, Rich- wrote one that placed a Majority blame or cause of your Mistakes and Issues on a Woman, would you or Any Man AND/OR Woman cosign that or Support it as a Valid Point??? HELL NO!!!

          And Because I, you and Everyone that comments here KNOWS that would not fly, it Proves my Point

        • http://twitter.com/IAmRichJones @IAmRichJones

          You guys can have this one. No shade, but I’m not really worried about what women are blaming men for on their sites nor interested in reading “who hurt you” content. Not sure why you guys are worried about those things either, but hey, it’s your choice.

        • RealTalk

          Cop out.

          This is a male's site (it's called "Single Black Male"). Dr. J wrote this and basically accused men of wronging women by not being who they expect/deserve. I'm certainly not going to say that men are perfect (we're FAR from it) but this article is short-sighted in blaming men for the dating scene that women control and have the upper hand in. MANY posters have stated and explained why this article is wrong and probably is the worst SBM article written in a LONG time.

          You saying that we're making "who hurt you" comments just because we're getting to the root of Dr. J's premise is disingenuous, intellectually lazy, and plain pandering to the female posters. Don't make condescending comments just because male posters are offering their basis for why the dating scene is what it is. And if you cared to take off your feminist glasses, you would see that many male posters have merit in what they say.

          I've read several of your responses/posts for some time and I can't help that you take a….sympathetic….approach to women. Is it because your a writer yourself and you don't want to alienate the female posters (who probably make up the majority of this site's readership…ironic, hey?) or is it because you really believe that men are being bitter brians? Who knows?

          But brother, keep saying whatever gives you thumbs up from the female posters.

        • Bree

          Real,
          Dr. J did not accuse men of anything. He simply commented on 3 aspects of things men can improve on when it comes to dating and relationships.
          In one of his early statements he says, "I think it’s important that we realize that a lot of the behavior that goes on between both genders is predicated on the simple premise that it’s allowed." Notice he said "Both Genders."
          Just because this is a site created by and moderated by men, does not mean every blog post must cater to the male ego.
          And so what if they don't want to alienate female readers and posters. That aspect is not personal Real, it's business. :)

        • http://twitter.com/IAmRichJones @IAmRichJones

          Let me make this quick….

          "This is a male's site (it's called "Single Black Male"). Dr. J wrote this and basically accused men of wronging women by not being who they expect/deserve. I'm certainly not going to say that men are perfect (we're FAR from it) but this article is short-sighted in blaming men for the dating scene that women control and have the upper hand in. MANY posters have stated and explained why this article is wrong and probably is the worst SBM article written in a LONG time."

          In my experience, only men who have trouble with women feel this way.

          "You saying that we're making "who hurt you" comments just because we're getting to the root of Dr. J's premise is disingenuous, intellectually lazy, and plain pandering to the female posters. Don't make condescending comments just because male posters are offering their basis for why the dating scene is what it is. And if you cared to take off your feminist glasses, you would see that many male posters have merit in what they say."

          Didn't say you guys are making "who hurt you" comments. I said I don't spend time reading that stuff on other sites. Also, I don't think I was condescending. Wasn't my intention. Your "feminist glasses" comment says a lot about you though. None of which I'll address.

          "I've read several of your responses/posts for some time and I can't help that you take a….sympathetic….approach to women. Is it because your a writer yourself and you don't want to alienate the female posters (who probably make up the majority of this site's readership…ironic, hey?) or is it because you really believe that men are being bitter brians? Who knows?"

          Never said men are bitter brians. Stop projecting.

          I'm done with this thread.

          My recent post 018: Grumpy Old Men

        • RealTalk

          And dude, everything I thought about you, you just confirmed on twitter. @IAmRichJones is a simp who panders to females to be relevant and "popular".

          You call men who call for accountability from women "butt-hurt" and "friend zoned." You have to wonder "who hurt you?" just because men are giving their opinions and experiences about the dating scene?

          You've lost all credibility as a writer and a man in my eyes. There's no way you can ever have your word taken as a man ever again on this site.

        • h.h.h.

          You've lost all credibility as a writer and a man in my eyes. There's no way you can ever have your word taken as a man ever again on this site.

          it's rather unfortunate that you don't speak for the majority of males on this site, nor the majority of the readership.

          and in my personal opinion, you and adonis (well, a-man has his own agenda, so it's to be expected) kinda sound a little like you got e-hemorrhoids…like this article either was the last straw, or someone pulled your card.

          just an observation from you giving your 'opinions and experiences'.

          not all of the posts on this website/blogsite will cater to you; sometimes..the message might not be … for you. if it don't apply, let it fly, kid.

          is the dating world all our fault? nope. does the minority f**k things up? yep?

          but so long as you staying on the up and up and understanding the trepidation of the other side, ain't nothing wrong with that.

        • MsPhilosophee

          @Real…If I may, allow me to inform you that some of your best feminists are males (and yes, heterosexual). This is mainly because of the level of courage and compassion required to be a male that advocates for women is against the masculine code. Most men believe that upholding the masculine code by going against the grain renders them weak. When, in actuality, the sexiest thing ever is when a man is strong enough to stand alone. As a woman, I see that as a serious trait of strength. And there is is something about a confident and self-directed type of man that makes me feel protected by him on many levels.
          I know you can dig that, right?
          Secondly, I often think that women get unfairly blamed for many things. However, If I'm honest, I would have to agree with much of what several men say here with respect to women not realizing their collective power; that they must start holding men more accountable. Yes, we have much power as women. But, I also think that neither of the sexes can afford to consistently finger point at the other.
          I was actually in shock as I read Dr. J's post…I just don't hear enough men calling each other out to be better. Let me let you in on something: As women, we don't feel very protected, or advocated for, by our men – as a collective. So, reading his post…I was rather surprised. It made several women, including myself, know that there are men who do appreciate what we bring to their lives other than just some trim.
          Why the need to question his sincerity or ridicule his position?
          It's about time that we got real grown about relationships between the sexes. Because from my vantage point, the relationship thing getting real silly, regardless of the nature of it.

        • RealTalk

          "some of your best feminists are males (and yes, heterosexual). This is mainly because of the level of courage and compassion required to be a male that advocates for women is against the masculine code."

          WHO?!?!?! show me a "best feminist" that's a male and I'll show you a simp.

          "When, in actuality, the sexiest thing ever is when a man is strong enough to stand alone. As a woman, I see that as a serious trait of strength. And there is is something about a confident and self-directed type of man that makes me feel protected by him on many levels."

          Lies. Tell that to all the GOOD MEN who struggle finding companions. If this were true, the good men who stayed in school, avoided drugs, fought tooth and nail for every job promotion and graduate degree would be the sexiest men ever to women. Clearly, the opposite of what you say is reality.

          "However, If I'm honest, I would have to agree with much of what several men say here with respect to women not realizing their collective power; that they must start holding men more accountable. Yes, we have much power as women."

          Now we're getting somewhere…

          "But, I also think that neither of the sexes can afford to consistently finger point at the other."

          To properly resolve any controversial issue, we must get to the root of the problem. Unfortunately, although many women collectively have NO PROBLEM blaming and dogging out men for their faults and wrongdoing (even in the public eye and in the media), women as a collective CANNOT accept blame for their part. They won't even call out the low-hanging basic members of their gender. They're master deflectors, as evidenced by their responses.

          "I just don't hear enough men calling each other out to be better. Let me let you in on something: As women, we don't feel very protected, or advocated for, by our men – as a collective. So, reading his post…I was rather surprised. It made several women, including myself, know that there are men who do appreciate what we bring to their lives other than just some trim."

          Why should men call themselves out to be better when the bad behavior of a few men is what gets those men the female's attention, interest, and sex? Of course the rest of the men are going to emulate the behavior of the men who act a certain way and still get the panties.

          If anything, the way women behaves makes it apparent that all THEY want is trim and drama. After all, it was the feminists who said women should be sexually liberated. Women as a collective are reaping what they sowed because of this new wave of feminism

          "Why the need to question his sincerity or ridicule his position?"

          Because it's not the truth. As I re-read this article more and more, I'm inclined to believe that this article was blatantly written to pander to the female readers for more hits. It's out of touch with the dating reality for most men while playing into women's collective and confused expectations. Ironic for a website dedicated to the viewpoints of single black males. It's the worst SBM article I've read.

        • MsPhilosophee

          @ RealTalk

          Thanks for your honest and spirited response. You make some good points.
          Per your request, here is a list of just a few self-proclaimed feminists: Kevin Powell, Byron Hurt, Symeon Brown, Micheal Eric Dyson, Gary Lemmons, Derrick Bell. Barack Obama epitomizes a male feminist. Popular forefather feminists (self-proclaimed) were Frederick Douglas and W.E.B. DuBois. This is a small sample and represents names that you would likely recognize. There are so many. By the way, what's wrong with them being feminists? And why do women have to be "reaping what they sowed"…which suggests that they deserve "punishment" for being the human and sexual as men have always been? Women were given desires as were men, and their female anatomies are equipped with more than 4,000 nerve endings….of which are activated during orgasm. The male's sexual anatomy does not have nearly as many. I say that to make the point that just because women's natural desires have been repressed and controlled for patriarchal purposes. The difference is that now she has been freed from much of that kind of control, and the results of that make a lot of males uncomfortable and in lesser control.

          As both men and women may want to argue certain points back on forth related to dating and relationships, we fail to consider that the inevitability of 'change' is what complicates and often turns longstanding rules on an axis. Certain privileges that men have enjoyed with respect to controlling the female body are no longer easy to access. This also changes things for women. Nonetheless, all,of these changes flip the script, and many people have problems adjusting…men and women.
          I see men beginning to let go notions of power that no longer serve them, and I applaud it. Men want to be loved just as women do. So, while we women may have needed your brawn back in the day, we now need you to bring your human/emotional self to the table (among other things). It's a lot of men who will try and fight it tooth and nail because they believe any aspect of rethinking what a man is will threaten their masculinity.
          For a change, stop blaming women for everything. We ALL have work to do. But men are DEFINITELY not beyond stepping it up. If you think women don't need men anymore, that's so not true. Figure it out and stop complaining about it. After all, what are you going to do without them?????? Just talk to women. Ask them what they need. Adjust. Rinse and repeat. Word.

      • http://www.lifeisablast.org paynewell

        "Both genders could use some self reflection and re-evaluation."

        If it was a post about women, i would be like yes women are at fault and we both need to accept responsibility. This post was about men, we should focus on men. When there is a post about women we can definitely focus on women. But it just looks like men do the same things as women do. When the light is shined, we get the "but women do…..". We both could use some self reflection, there is nothing wrong with that.
        My recent post ▶ Why do guys lie when they say they love you? – YouTube

        • RealTalk

          "If it was a post about women, i would be like yes women are at fault and we both need to accept responsibility. This post was about men, we should focus on men. When there is a post about women we can definitely focus on women. "

          In theory, this makes sense. In reality, even when there are posts where the article focuses on women, women deflect the issue onto men. This happens incessantly on this site. What bothers male posters on this site, in my opinion, is that female posters can never admit that a lot of them are in the wrong when it comes to these issues. They deflect onto men just to avoid blame. At least male posters admit that some men are in the wrong before they give their reasons why the blame ultimately lays at the women's feet.

          So in reality, women are just as guilty as you claim the men are.

        • http://www.lifeisablast.org paynewell

          "So in reality, women are just as guilty as you claim the men are."

          Well I'm not a woman that can't accept her mistakes. That's who I am. All these male posts scream of women deflection as well. I said both sides need to man up/ woman up and improve. These aren't bad ideas. He isn't giving out outrageous information. Be the best that you can be to the woman that deserves you. I would tell this to a woman as well. However, as I said before this post is about males and I know how to comment within the lines.
          My recent post ▶ Why do guys lie when they say they love you? – YouTube

        • RealTalk

          See, you're shifting goal posts now.

          I wasn't talking about you personally but women in general. And I stand behind the belief that women in general are masters in the art of deflection when these topics come about.

          Now you do make some good points otherwise. However, all the male posters are doing is calling out this information for being short-sighted. The main reason: the advice is no good when it tacitly overlooks the f*ckery that goes on with the other team. It's imploring us to behave in a way that stifles us and allows women to do as they do. This article was disingenuous.

        • http://www.lifeisablast.org paynewell

          Again, pointing fingers.

          Is the information bad? Not at all. As there are good men out there, there are good women as well, and for you to get those good women, you need to change how you approach those women, or at least add another trick in your book.

          Did he say, give all women everything and expect nothing regardless of the situation? Not at all. I believe women do things that are counterproductive to relationships. I have noted that on previous posts. If this was a woman's post and all the women were doing what the men were doing, then it would be deflection. But because the men feel that what they are saying is correct, it's not deflection, it's the truth.

          How can people (women) want to follow that lead, if you are doing the same things and not leading by example?
          My recent post ▶ Why do guys lie when they say they love you? – YouTube

        • RealTalk

          No paynewell, I'm not point fingers.

          All I'm doing is making the observation that the article tries to check men without considering what the women do/have done.

          "How can people (women) want to follow that lead, if you are doing the same things and not leading by example?"

          The only ones who are not leading by example are the men who women do choose instead of those women overlook.

          This article is addressing the entire male gender because of the actions of a limited group (a minority) within that gender. Most of the men to whom this article applies are the ones the majority of women choose, most times to their detriment.

        • http://www.lifeisablast.org paynewell

          "This article is addressing the entire male gender because of the actions of a limited group (a minority) within that gender. "

          Most of the comments men use, addresses the whole female population. You were speaking about women in general, but when talking about men in general its not true. Not just the chicks that (some) men want to be with but doesn't want to be with them. Men are having the same dating issues that women are having. Finding someone who fits the criteria of what we put out there.
          My recent post ▶ Why do guys lie when they say they love you? – YouTube

        • RealTalk

          Because women are obviously targeting the same type of men and even Bree admitted that in one of her responses:

          "most women I know simply want a man with sex appeal, and a good paying job making an honest living. Someone that's considerate, romantic, chivalrous, kind, caring, a good father, attentive, and that looks good. Yes women also want a man who can please her sexually; or at least make an effort to, and be open-minded in the bedroom. Just like men like attractive women; women like attractive men. So yes, women are highly likely to go for men that are physically appealing to them"

          SERIOUSLY? When have YOU ever met a man who has all that? And the men that do are in the minority of men.

          Most women don't want to settle. Although men value looks, we are more likely than women to understand that you can't have it all in a partner.

          So yes, women, in general, go for the minority of men. Denzel principle at work.

        • Adonis

          @realtalk

          Most women do not have the beauty, s-x appeal & the relationship intangibles to hold a man of that caliber's attention.

          impractical dating standards

        • http://www.lifeisablast.org paynewell

          "SERIOUSLY? When have YOU ever met a man who has all that? And the men that do are in the minority of men. "

          I don't even see how that is a lot. If she said they needed to be 6'5, make 60,000 at least, and have a lexus, Then I would say you are right we need to change those standards. But there are plenty of men who exudes those aspects. Doesn't mean they may fit you but those aren't hard to find qualities. Men have a list of women they want, now you guys aren't as verbal in it but it's not just "she's needs to be pretty and do what I want". I do see why a man wouldn't want to have those qualities or why those would be frowned upon. Do I think women have high standards? Yes, Yes Yes, but there is a difference between being realistic and settling.

          It just feels like, you are saying men aren't going to be anything better so just take what you can. We should want our men to be better just like they should want their women to be better.
          My recent post ▶ Why do guys lie when they say they love you? – YouTube

        • RealTalk

          "I don't even see how that is a lot. If she said they needed to be 6'5, make 60,000 at least, and have a lexus, Then I would say you are right we need to change those standards. But there are plenty of men who exudes those aspects. Doesn't mean they may fit you but those aren't hard to find qualities."

          OK, but my question stands: when have YOU ever met a man who has all that? And if they're available, why haven't you found one yet? If they're available and a bunch of women don't have one, maybe it's the women who can't attract those men.

          "Men have a list of women they want, now you guys aren't as verbal in it but it's not just "she's needs to be pretty and do what I want". I do see why a man wouldn't want to have those qualities or why those would be frowned upon."

          Outside of looks (that are attractive enough for us), personality and attitude, dudes don't have nearly as much on our lists in what we look for in a mate as women do. Be serious.

          "Do I think women have high standards? Yes, Yes Yes, but there is a difference between being realistic and settling."

          If women were "settling" they'd be more in touch in reality than by pursuing men with their perception of what's realistic. Tragically, most don't understand this.

          "It just feels like, you are saying men aren't going to be anything better so just take what you can. We should want our men to be better just like they should want their women to be better."

          Now I'm questioning your reading comprehension. I didn't say that men shouldn't be better. I (and most other male posters) said that most women who cry about men needing to get better are the ones who chose and are choosing the men who have lots of work to do. When women as a collective start making better choices in men, then men will be forced to improve in order to get women's time and attention. Until that magical, magnificent, majestical day, women are in no position to demand that men get better when men are getting with them for doing less.

          Like I've said, if women got with men who are trying to become doctors, teachers, lawyers, scientists and engineers, our community's dating situation would drastically improve within 10 years. It'd be like night and day.

        • http://www.lifeisablast.org paynewell

          "OK, but my question stands: when have YOU ever met a man who has all that? And if they're available, why haven't you found one yet? If they're available and a bunch of women don't have one, maybe it's the women who can't attract those men."

          Yes I have met several men with that quality. I have dated some and we didn't have the same end goals, or the chemistry isn't there. Why would you stay with someone because of what looks good on paper? I wouldn't advocate for anyone to be with someone just because they are a good person. There is a difference between good person and a good person for you.

          "Outside of looks (that are attractive enough for us), personality and attitude, dudes don't have nearly as much on our lists in what we look for in a mate as women do. Be serious."

          Come on sir. We have seen a few "things that makes a good woman" list. You might need few to date, but ya'll need enough to marry her. Women are specific about what they want vocally, where men will just know something about her isn't right but may classify it as I wasn't feeling her.

          "Now I'm questioning your reading comprehension."

          It's not about my reading comprehension but it's about what the inference was from your quote of "When have YOU ever met a man who has all that? And the men that do are in the minority of men." So to men you are saying that most men don't carry those positive characteristics, which I think it so untrue. But hey to each their own.

          "Like I've said, if women got with men who are trying to become doctors, teachers, lawyers, scientists and engineers, our community's dating situation would drastically improve within 10 years. It'd be like night and day."

          I know several good men, who are reeling from divorces, baby mommas issues, financial issues because they chose the wrong b*tch from the get go. People(not just women) make poor dating choices. If we both as a group focused on improving ourselves and teaching others how to do it by following by example, dating would continue to improve. You are completely right about that.

          The End :)

          My recent post ▶ Why do guys lie when they say they love you? – YouTube

        • MsPhilosophee

          @paynewell
          Your response is on point. I totally agree and this is great insight. Our men can gain so, so much if more of them would trust their own self- reflection, not just what has been prescribed for them by society,

    • Bree

      "People need to do better, not because of what others will think, but because it's the right thing to do." Exactly paynewell.

    • http://Www.flyandfierce.com/lifestyleblog Sable B.

      Accountability is always overlooked. As long as we continue to play the blame game, these convos will persist.
      My recent post The Lazy Girl’s Guide to a Closet Overhaul

  • Bree

    "Women who know their worth aren't gonna put up with the bs." You hit the proverbial nail on the head sincereluv.

    • High_Five_Ghost

      Adonis wrote, “If they truly were outraged by the sub-par class of men in this life, THE WOMEN would MODIFY their behavior to achieve their desired ends.”

      You wrote, “What more ladies need to do is choose more grown men, instead of grown children.”

      You’re saying the same thing…and guess what…you’re both right

      You women are the choosers, both biologically and socially. We fall to the level that you put up with (collectively). You’re longer and contradictory argument is correct, but only on a personal basis. Collectively, the “where did all the men go?” question is at the fault of women’s falling standards.

      This doesn’t get me off the hook personally,…IJS

  • mememoi

    Eh. Insecure men attract insecure women.

    Regarding the money thing.

    I was reading elsewhere that a lot of men feel as though they have nothing to offer women anymore because of feminism or because now women have careers and what not.

    And I never understood this logic…

    Are you saying that you have zero to offer a romantic partner outside of finances? What about compatible personalities or feelings of lust or love or shared humor or decency or a decent personality.

    Sure you have to work harder when someone isn't forced to stay with you out of fear of being broke, but trust me, it leads to much more fulfilling relationship.

    • RealTalk

      "I was reading elsewhere that a lot of men feel as though they have nothing to offer women anymore because of feminism or because now women have careers and what not.

      And I never understood this logic… "

      When you consider that traditionally, men lead and provided financially while women nurtured and catered to men, it makes sense that men (born in traditional homes) who are being out-earned by women are going to feel some type of way b/c of feminism and its effects. Plus, this is the age where women are independent and got their own…

      • Bree

        Real, men need to take control of their households and take the responsibility that comes with that role. There are men who just don't want that responsibility. They are cool chillin back and allowing the woman to be as feminist as she wants because it works in his favor. Regardless of what kind of career a woman has and how much money she makes, it's up to the man to obtain and maintain the respect of the woman and be "The Man" and be head of his household. I doubt very seriously that President Obama allows Michelle to "run him" and have control of their household, as Bill Clinton seemed to allow Hillary Clinton to do. To me it was pretty clear in Bill & Hillarys relationship who had the power, regardless of the titles.

        • RealTalk

          Bree,

          "men need to take control of their households and take the responsibility that comes with that role. There are men who just don't want that responsibility. They are cool chillin back and allowing the woman to be as feminist as she wants because it works in his favor."

          the men that WOMEN are choosing are doing that. the men that WOMEN want are doing that. there are plenty of good, quality, educated, employed men who are not being chosen who would never do that.

          " I doubt very seriously that President Obama allows Michelle to "run him" and have control of their household, as Bill Clinton seemed to allow Hillary Clinton to do. To me it was pretty clear in Bill & Hillarys relationship who had the power, regardless of the titles."

          Obscure example but OK. It's a known fact in political circles that Michelle wears the pants in the relationship…to the point where MANY of Obama's advisors and handlers really dislike her. So I don't know why you brought that couple up. But if anything, it goes to show you how some women (regardless of their stature and accomplishments) have difficulty with letting men be men.

        • MsPhilosophee

          @RealTalk

          A woman is a compass. And a smart man understands that. He is not threatened or concerned with her 'running him'. What he does do ( by not fearing that principle of her 'controlling' him) is benefit from her keen intuition. This does not mean that he can't think for himself, manage his life, or lead his family. No sir, it does not.
          I'll have to beg to differ with you on the Barack and Michele. If you've ever seen them interviewed together, you will see how he defers to her wisdom all of the time. And he is not threatened to cite his wife's internal wisdom as being key for their family and business affairs. She in turn always mentions how proud she is in the demonstration of his direction for their family, as well as national and international affairs.
          He simply understands her alignment within the universe. Her power just can't be faded. And when a man makes room for that, it serves him to no end.
          Woman is an Orange Moon ;-).

      • Bree

        If women need to have and maintain higher standards, then men need to start desiring, and choosing more women with higher standards, regardless of their looks and sex appeal.

        • RealTalk

          Bree,

          Except men don't choose. Women do. Men only pursue.

  • HustlynDiva

    I don't know at what point when men stopped being men when it comes in regards to women. I can only speak for myself I come from a 2 parent household I watched my father treat my mother a certain way and in return I watched my mom treat my father a certain way. As a young lady in my early dating years my dad explained to me as a woman this is what you deserve and this is how your supopsed to be treated, doesn't mean its going to happen but this is the information you need to know. So now when I come across men who may not court, who may not open doors I don't come down his throat about it but I do bring it to lght because I need him to understand where I come from and that I was raised to respect and treat you accordlingly as a man then I deserve that same treatment as a woman. I take into consideration it can be the fault of past women they dealt with and I take into consideration that maybe he wasn't taught how to treat women…

  • J. Crawford

    This post has some Good Points, and it has BS parts. I get that this is For Men, and I realize that there will Never be one Like This for Women because there can't be an accountability coverage without scapegoating Men…….. Women CHOOSE and almost NEVER Approach, so They Set the Standards. Period. Until Ladies ALSO start putting in Work in the Equality they Demand and Want so Bad, Men will continue to Adapt and do what is necessary For Them to Get what They Want.

    BTW, just because Most Men don't put in Effort doesn't automatically mean we Don''t have Good Intentions or will go down the Bad Direction. YES, Men need to Step up and Have (better) Standards of our own- unless Said Standards are "Unrealistic to Reality"……….. wonder where I heard this saying from……….. smh

    • RealTalk

      Thank you, sir.

  • Kwazigirl

    J. Crawford,

    I understand what you are saying however I wonder if we women are victims to our inherent nature. As women we're taught to nurture, love, be kind, gentle etc. and to focus those affections on our men, no man wants a woman who doesn't because basically she'd be a man *lol*. When it comes to our dealings with men we are taught (by the women and men in our lives) to give a guy a with potential a chance (think Michelle- Barak), give a person the benefit of the doubt (don't be bitter and think every man is a liar and out to play you), let a man lead and trust in him etc etc… Usually when we do these things its much to our demise. Now I know a few of you gents will say well I'm sure the writing was on the wall and you probably should have known that the guy with the 3 baby mommas and felony wasn't going to be a great mate…. but who says a person can't change and doesnt want to do better? and Who says the man who took advantage of this woman wasn't a seemingly stellar guy? Women (especially BW) want to believe that our men can be great and meet/exceed their potential regardless of circumstances and we want to support that. So when women fall for the okey-doke its not always because we are dumb or weak… in "some" cases its truly because the guy wasn't mature enough or ready to be in a mature relationship and took advantage of the inherent nature of our feminity.

    • sincereluv4life

      “in “some” cases its truly because the guy wasn’t mature enough or ready to be in a mature relationship and took advantage of the inherent nature of our feminity.”

      That’s a really good point.

    • https://www.facebook.com/john.shannon.967 John Shannon

      That last part in many ways discredits the Maturity, Intelligence, Pride, and other Hard Work Women go through in points of your lives, if the "Nature of Femininity" is that powerful and Fragile in the same instance that a Man's Immaturity can blow all of that up……

      I defer to you because I'm not a Woman, but i don't necessarily buy that and i would not want my Daughter to be That Kind of Woman that as Strong, Smart, Ambitious and Successful she will strive to be Some Immature Boy/Man will make all that be for Nothing…..

    • uNk

      I can roll with a lot of what you have said, its all very true, and i can attest to that behavior from my 16-22 year old self…BUT this:

      "Women (especially BW) want to believe that our men can be great and meet/exceed their potential regardless of circumstances "

      that circumstance thing can only go so far until he becomes project boyfriend that ends up hurting you

  • Gray

    Can either men or women be examined without the other sex feeling too slighted to address the actual topic? Just because “man” is the topic it’s not validation that women are without fault. I guess it’s impossible to understand without gaining sympathy to justify your own poor judgment.

    Regardless of our past, since when did it become wrong to want better? Are the males here saying women don’t deserve seeking better than their past experiences? Is this because men don’t want to do any more than what they are currently doing?

    … do you think that a small (or big) population of men is ruining the image of the group? Large. There’s little to no respect shown or given and when it comes to relationships men have set the tone for a dog eat dog world.

    Also, how does it feel to have to ask or be asked, “When did men stop being men?” It’s sad from my perspective. It happened when they no longer wanted to lead or be held responsible for family. The obligation is overwhelming and became too much. Life is easier with a temporary fix for family without true or long term obligations.

    What are some ways that we can be supportive of each other without raising (in the sense of a father) one another? I am very mild mannered. I’m not one to argue, accuse, or try to force someone into the person I want them to be. I have been very supportive to individuals who could care less, because they just weren’t ready to mature up, which is fine as long as they are honest (M/F). In addition I share my opinion, good, bad or indifferent, but there’s a time and a place for everything. (M/F). I’ve met few men who were positively receptive to me giving my opinion, most women are. Several men have asked how I saw them fully expecting I deem them as “good men” only to be upset that I didnt, which is idiotic to me. When telling men how I see them from my perspective, which is not completely negative, they’ve shut me out and told me no one else ever told them that. When telling men about sex, they repeat the same statement. In both scenarios men have tried to get me to see the error was me, not them.

    BW may complain about BM, but we still want that great black hope…and yes we all think he’s there somewhere, even though we’ve never seen him. BM are quick to judge BW for their past as if he is without one… the same very BM will be quick to remind you that he shouldn’t be forever tarnished by his past….I’ll never understand it. BM should know BW do recognize our errors in poor judgment with men. However, it’s rare that we will admit it to you. Why should we when you never open up? You’re only interested in condemning and being right!

    I think we all should remain honest and respectful to one another; no immature name calling, cursing, or yelling. Don’t raise voices. Seek personal goals as well as self improvement, and figure out how to make it happen. Be willing to listen to others objectively and self reflect. Recognize and admit when you’re wrong, and apologize for your poor behavior and mistreatment. Stop being so judgmental, because not even you are perfect. Stop being a whore and condemning the whore you were with.

  • High_Five_Ghost

    “do you think that a small (or big) population of men is ruining the image of the group?”

    Yes. However the negative in any group make more noise. That doesn’t make them the majority; it just creates the illusion of the majority.

    “…how does it feel to have to ask or be asked, “When did men stop being men?”

    What they’re really asking is when did men stop being what THEIR IDEA of men are? …and that’s a bs question. They should answer that their damn selves.

    “What are some ways that we can be supportive of each other…”

    I say, let evolution weed out the unfit. Right now it looks like the “normies” among us are losing but remember, it just LOOKS like we’re in the minority.

  • Skio89

    A saying comes to mind, "You get what you reward".

    You can't have a society that promotes, and out right celebrates, Hook-Up Culture while feeling entitled to be courted like we're in the 1950's. It's not about being "lazy", it's about getting hip to what's going on around you.

  • cynicaloptmst81

    There are COUNTLESS articles on this site that GO IN on women for one reason or another. The few times an article admonishes men to pull up in some way or another and you’re pretty much doing the same thing you accuse the women of doing…placing the blame on women and brushing off all accountability and responsibility, lol. You are literally reacting the same way.

    No one wants to be wrong. But wise people (male & female) understand the importance of doing the right thing…simply because it’s right.

    • MsPhilosophee

      Great point!

    • Jay

      It's not necessarily brushing off accountability, but pointing out that admonishing men that are getting what they want in the end is futile. The good guys aren't out here pretending as if "dogs" are a figment of a woman's imagination. They're saying it's pointless to wag the finger of shame at dudes that are getting love, sex, money, room, and board with minimal/no effort and ZERO consequences. Their perception is their reality, so to them they're "#winning". And he's gonna ride that win streak til' the wheels fall off. I feel it would be more beneficial to speak to the ladies because THEY'RE getting the raw-end of the deal. They walk away from these destructive relationships with considerably less than what the trifling male counterpart did. Trust me, life straightens "boys" out; that "win streak" will eventually bite them in the a$$. But until then, with no immediate consequences, it's a waste of time to "tell them about themselves".

  • langwichartz

    OMG!!! Can we call a cease-fire please!? I see that there is a lot of idealism and not enough realism in the world today. Fact is that BOTH genders are equally responsible for the adverse state of affairs in the current dating scene. As a man, I have no issue with acknowledging where we falter, nor do I have an issue with it coming from another male. My personal opinion is that when examining these issues there needs to be equal exposition devoted to both genders as to what is or isn't being done and what improvements can be made. Otherwise, the gender being admonished will always be on the defensive for the part the other gender plays in whatever issue is being raised. At the end of the day we BOTH need to do a lot better. Either that or just accept the reality of today's environment and adapt. Evolution requires that any species adapt, and in my opinion, men have done a bit better in this aspect.

    • http://singleblackmale.org October’s First

      Yeah like if you notice this was Part II. I didn’t have enough space to do it as one piece. It’s linked in this post.