Home Women Chivalry is DEAD … well … Mortally Wounded

Chivalry is DEAD … well … Mortally Wounded

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My fellow blogger (who I have a secret crush on), The Comeback Girl, wrote a post dedicated to lil ol’ me, called “One Ringy Dingy, Two Ringy Dingy (Mama’s Little Husband)” which is a very … “interesting” read.

My Interpretation of the post:
Comeback girl feels that us men have been coddled by our mothers and have developed an arrogant flair about us. We no longer feel the need to do participate in the traditional courtship “rituals” that were laid out by our fathers and grandfathers.
Women liberation, while not a bad thing, was not crafted for black women, and they have suffered as a result. The “niceties” they were used to being given by men are no longer practiced and it is hard for them to feel “soft and pink”.
The Comeback Girl is fed up (it seems a lot because we don’t call like we used to).

OK … well … ummmm … before I say anything else … I love you Comeback Girl … really. I read your blog on the regular and love what you have to say (well mostly). I think the post may be in retaliation because I called her out for saying “I’m sorry, if you have time to go to the bathroom you have time to call.” Honestly, I was kind of mad when I read this, but I guess thats another post. Sorry Comeback Girl … but that Ringy Dingy post was all wrong.

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Chivalry is dying … and its a good thing!

Chivalry (A SBM Defintion):
Concept of a man doing extraneous, overly nice, and helpful things for a woman … only because she is a woman.
Archaic principle used to “even” the playing field in a time where it was an accepted fact that women were inferior to men … a concept generally disregarded in 2008.

In 2008, women (especially black women) are independent, intelligent, smart, educated, good money earning entities capable and successfully running their own businesses, households, and empires. The “Women’s Liberation” movement did a lot to ensure that women were given fair and equal treatment and access as their male counter parts. A lot of guys didn’t and don’t like this idea … I personally welcome it.

But wait … did you say “equal” SBM? Doesn’t equal mean that on the same footing? Doesn’t equal mean treated the same?

Why … yes it does.

Here is my problem (finally … I know)!

You can’t be equal and independent … yet still want all the perks of when you were “weak” and “helpless”.

Its Selfish …

Lets look at a woman of the 1930’s. Sad to say, she is helpless. She can’t earn nearly as much as her male counterparts. She has just been granted the right to vote. She is told to get married young and to someone who can provide for her. She is regarded as dumber and weaker than her male counterparts, and is sexually harassed blatantly and without complaint on her part. She knows how to cook and clean and hopes to make a good housewife by cooking, cleaning, and having kids for her husband. Work … oh no … not for her. Her man makes the money and all of the decisions.

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Poor 1930’s woman. Are you even allowed to think?

Fast forward to 2008. The 2000 woman has a nice job as a consultant/executive/journalist/doctor/lawyer and supports herself. She drives a nice Range Rover (lol @ Comeback … but had to do it) and takes care of her own. She has her own house, car, job, money, and opinions. She votes, is active in politics, is quick to voice her opinion in an eloquent manner, and does not let anyone disrespect her (especially any man) … because she has worked hard for hers!

You go girl! (snaps finger in sassy metrosexual way).

Maybe its just me, and maybe I’m just too progressive and don’t have enough chauvinist in me … but gimme that new millennium female!

Oh wait … this millenium female, while so “independent” still wants to be catered? She still wants me to chase after her in the streets. Blow up her phone. Come out my pocket every single time we go out, sit at a bar, or hit the mall (as in pay for her to shop). She can’t open her own car door, put on her own coat, or tie her own shoes (yes … I’ve seen this one with my own eyes!).

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WTF …

As intelligent and smart as she is, this new age female doesn’t realize that these “chivalrous” acts were done at a time when male dominance was undisputed and unquestioned. Men did these things because women, at that time, had to be cared for like children. They weren’t allowed to think or provide for themselves. These acts were done to show that we could take care of everything … because the woman couldn’t. Why would you still want to be treated like a child?

Before I end, I will say this. I do still participate in several acts that are considered “chivalrous”. I open doors, I pay for dates (the first couple), I am romantic, the pursuer, and will always make you feel “soft and pink” … just don’t expect me to open your car door. Don’t know why … but not doing that sh*t.

But Comeback Girl … I still think we can make it work … get at me … lol

Comment(57)

  1. Very good post. This reminds me of the time I was at the grocery store with my guy and I was paying for my own stuff and he was paying for his. This nosy lady behind us came out of no where and said something like "You're supposed to buy her groceries if you're with her! You're the man!" I could only laugh. My bf said "It's 2006, ma'am. She can afford to buy her own stuff."

    I'm willing to bet that this same lady would get pissed off if someone said "You're supposed to stay in the house, cook, clean, and pop out babies. You're a woman!"

    There were also a couple times when I paid for dinner and the waitress demanded to know why he wasn't paying. Ha! You mean it's wrong for me to treat my boyfriend to dinner? I'm sorry, but I'm not the type to let a man do everything for me all the time. A relationship is 50/50. I'm usually happy splitting the bill down the middle. Not "You pay 'cause you're the man." He's my partner, not my parent. Intellectual conversation gets me going, not how far the guy can pull the chair out for me.

    But yeah obviously shows chivalry is still expected. Women like being spoiled rotten and expect it, especially in the beginning of a relationship. We want to be seen as unique, powerful beings that cause men to drool with stupidity and feed our egos with compliments. We want them to provide the majority and still see us as their equals and then some. We want to have our cake and eat it too (with an extra scoop of ice cream). I am woman, hear me roar! (And please pay for dinner while you listen.)

    But seriously, I don’t know too many women that will want to pay for the first date. Not even myself. Why? Most likely the guy asked me out. Why the hell should I pay if he’s the one that wanted the night out with me? If it was sort of a mutual thing like we met in a chat room and fell for each other after a month of talking, then that’s different and can go 50/50. But the guy would still be expected to pay because he’s a guy… In other words the slant will be in the woman’s favor for a long, long time, sorry guys…

    Oh well, cake and ice cream plz. Roar.

  2. "I think we can make it work" is that your fav line or what!!????!!!

    and as long as women are the ones carrying and pushing out 8lbs babies on top of running companies, packing lunches, strokin our mans ego, taking care of him in the bedroom, and voting..it will never be equal SO men do need to do the EXTRA EXTRA catering, coddling minus the seat belt but that would be a sweet gesture lol..just cuz we are women and YES we want it all, whats wrong with that and why should it end after the first few NEW NEW dates it should carry on to 10 and 20 and 25 year anniversaries…ROAR!!! did I catch your cheek with my claws..ROAR!!!!

  3. Me feeling "soft and pink" has NEVER EVER been about dollars and cents. And I think MOST women (who are self-sustaining regardless of income understand that). The "opportunity" ( I won't say problem because words have power and manifest on their own) arises when we see how resentful SOME black men can be about our accomplishments-as if it somehow takes away from them. And hence we "pay" for SOME black men's feelings of inadequacy. So because Jane Johnson makes 150k, she doesn't deserved woo'd?

    The other "opportunity" is that because a Black man woos Jane (who Jane is also deeply interested in). The woman he really really digs. By him doing those things that make her feel "soft and pink"-somehow takes SOMETHING away from him. I have to go back to the legal term that I love love love. QUID QUO PRO. Generally when you please somebody-their tendancy is to return the gesture. Everybody can win in the courtship "war" (your words).

  4. I really got to get to work. this is my last post for a few hours…..

    One last damn thing and this goes back to your evolutionary arguement. About society and the progression of women and the reasons why chilvary was used. I totally disagree with your premise. Because now I am "free" from a racial and gender perspective- i shouldn't want to be "chilvarized"?

    I believe the inate feeling for women to be woo'd and pursued on some level is biological (don't ask me for any scientific data-because I aint got it) LOL. but there are elements of attraction that are instinctive -including the concept of pheramones. So why should the element of the "woo" be any different. When I got "free", I didn't shut any of my functions of a woman off. Like I told Anti-I'm still ovulating (like my great great great grandmother did 200 years ago). I want to have children (like my grandmother did 60 years ago).

    I make a lot more money then they all did. But I still want the same things they want.

    AND IT IS A LIE TO BELIEVE THAT WOMEN WERE DOMINATED COMPLETELY. I think it was Einstein's wife who said: "My husband makes all the hard decisions….the good thing about it was, there was never any hard decisions to make."

    translation: the man may have been the head-but the woman was the neck.

  5. I think this chivalry talk is getting mixed up with woman’s lib and they really don’t belong in the same category. Like comebackgirl said how did I lose my right to be woo’d when I got to corporate america. Some guys arguments come from some females going overboard with the gimmie this and gimmie that because I am a woman, and give the rest of us a bad name. Whom ever is saying “tie my shoes for me” have issues and again there is no way possible that this is the majority of woman. I would enjoy the fact that a man is simply a “gentlemen” period. I don’t see when and how my right to vote equated to don’t open my door for me I can do it myself”

    I agree with the fact that todays man has been coddled by there mothers and that’s because somewhere back in history men started to feel inadequate when the jobs and hard work they had been known for got taken away and women had been forced to get into the work world to provide for the family (p.s we never stopped working to begin with) just a different form of work. That’s how our mothers mothers got left with the kids to raise because the man got an ego check and couldn’t handle it. So single mothers have to raise men to be the husbands they never had which is why so many of them are lacking the basics. I don’t need to be liberated if it means that I am being punished for having to raise my family while the man is sitting there trying to figure out where he fits in to feel sufficient again. You may not provide me the things I need financially anymore but I am still a woman and want to feel like a lady no matter how many millions I have.

  6. @lecya: You absolutely made my day. You don't know how great it was to wake up and have your comment be the first thing on my blackberry. A woman who believes in equality. Brings a tear to my eye. And I can even agree with the dating and paying … not complaining about that.

    @GeeGee: Yeah, I need to focus my attention. It just seems that this blog really brings out the "stars". Plus, you've broken my heart too many times. I can't cry no more over geegee … lol

    I will admit, I forgot to talk about the Milenium Guy. We cook, we clean (kinda), we pick up the kids, we make lunch, etc. We are taking on more and more responsibilities that were called "woman's work" a long time ago. Don't we get a break … damn.

    @Mikki & Comeback: Crazy Morning. No time to comment right now … but believe … its coming.

  7. When I was younger I got mad at commentaries like yours now I laugh. Funny thing most men even new age won't go for saying women are equal. They azzes don't want to work and let the women do it all. LOL.

  8. Wow! amazing post SBM.

    @Comeback: You enjoy the term Quid Pro Quo, a latin word meaning "something for something". Well, here's another latin word: cui bono. It means "for who's good or benefit?"

    The landscape has changed. The "Milennium Man" i sadapting to change while the Milennium Woman seeks to hold on to the old world to extract its benefits: cake, ice cream, cherries, and chocolate syrup. A man's expected costs are $835 for 6 dates in the Washington, DC area. A woman gives her time for which she is obviously compensated ($835) just so she can feel soft and pink. This research comes from a Match.com study/MSN dating article btw.

    @Mikki: You mentioned the that men are coddled. If a lot of black familes are single-parent homes and the young men are raised to be little husbands – what of the women? The phrase "Mama's Boys and No Daddy Girls" comes to mind(future post title). Black women have been conditioned to believe that Daddy wasn't $h*t and thus black men aren't $h*t and ain't ever gone be $h*t. Black men have to jump through flaming hoops of old-world chivalry to prove otherwise. If we can make you feel extra, extra "soft and pink" then maybe it's a start – or not "cause he ain't no good anyway".

  9. Somebody needs to get http://www.innervisionsworldwide.com/Iyanla Vanzant and her male counterpart on the mainline to moderate this discussion.

    "The phrase “Mama’s Boys and No Daddy Girls"

    Anti did you make that up? I never heard of phrase? Anyway its called FRAME OF REFERENCE. My father wasn't the greatest. He's ironically sought to make ammends now 30 years later. I am working on forgiveness. But he wasn't the ONLY father/husband/partner I ever saw. I had grandparents with great relationships, family members who have great partnerships. That's not an excuse. And in this day and age at least half of us are produced of divorce and single parents.

    The lack of should lead to greater discovery. Further I think those of us raised by women had women who loved us (and even tried to overcompensate for the lack of another parent). I was able to look objectively at the decisions both of my parents had made. And for the growth and perspective I thank them both.

    The idea is to BECOME better. Discarding what doesn't or didn't work. Not just bitchin about it.

  10. @Comeback: I agree that we should be working to become better. I have to admit that squabbling with you and conspiring with SBM helped me to come up with that title.

    As we evaluate ourselves we do have to look back to childhood as we are in our latency stage of growth (thanks Mr. Jung) in our 20s and 30s. This analysis is difficult because we have to call in to question our past relationships – particularly with our parents. Let's not forget the impact of Society and the socialization process for blacks therein.

    These interactions and other experiences have shaped our "map of the world". From time to time our map does not agree with reality. I think that trying to maximize gain for self at the expense of others is wrong – but perhaps I am the one using the wrong map?

  11. @ anti ( little husbands of there mothers)

    I think money seems to be a big issue nobody can seem to let go of, and I will keep saying stop dating gold diggers because where I come from feeling soft and pink don’t cost $835. Yesterday I asked a guy to call me and his response was “dang I feel asleep ma bad”. All the money in the world can’t make up for these simple gestures. I grew up in a household with a coddled man (my brother) and well I won’t know until get gets out of college how it really has affected him. I am happy my brother will not be a burden to society when he graduates, but he still will not no how to treat a woman because momma didn’t have time to teach him.

    I am adapting more these days to the give and take so every one involved will benefit that doesn’t mean you give and let me also stipulate what I give you back. I think we would have to be in agreement long before anything happens to start, including a first date. I think yall walk in with blinders because of big asses and nice legs and forget you walking into a possible contract, then get mad when your part of the contract isn’t doesn’t get fulfilled cause you had goo goo eyes when she picked your back pocket for your wallet (figuratively speaking).

    We will all need to take certain aspects from “back in the day” but no matter how hard we try we can’t have everything. Truth told women weren’t just “mothers” back then. They washed clothes by hand, picked vegetables out of a garden to cook, cleaned, taught the kids, sowed clothes, quilts and blankets, shined shoes, and a host of other things. And in turn the man worked a hard laboring job, took out the trash chastised the kids, shoveled the snow, built cabinetry for the house, chopped lumber, brought home the wood for the fires and dem som nor man or woman in today’s time care to HONESTLY do all that and don’t have to. So don’t go hollering talking bout men gotta be house wives now because its way easier for both parties today. Seek a good woman and ye shall find

  12. @Comeback: The post about learning from your parent's mistakes, and taking the values that you saw as worthwhile really resonated with me. At times, people reject me when I describe the climate of my family (which naturally, I describe the way I see it, not always in the greatest of lights). What they don't know is that those people, like you said, are in a good position to learn from it, and be better.

    After reading all of this I'm wondering…what are the rules or expectations of chivalry? Can't that just be translated into attraction? No matter what, as Comeback touched upon, it comes down to a natural/biological effect when men treat women "right". Further, if you do all of these "expected" things, the attraction will probably be gone. Whatever we do now, it's nature playing it's role in the society we live in, not steadfast rules.

  13. @ Mikki Anti and SBM are too damn busy keeping a financial accounting of EVERYDAMN thing. I hate to be a car with SBM or ANTI DRIVING and them offering me a piece of gum. I can imagine the cash register in their head going .10 cents. Dating (or even relationships) shouldn't keep that kind of scoreboard. Even if we look at the universal laws (by always having those notions of keeping score causes you to attract the very woman that requires you keep a financial accounting.)

    Again we are overintellectualizing this. Which is why I agree with Space.

    @ Space you are right. What is the point of waking up everyday if you aren't willing to change to see things in new and different ways.

  14. This conversation was really about "Calling" not how much you make. How much I make. An excel spreadsheet of depreciating assets etc.

    Its a phone call, an everyday one!!!

    Its opening my door. Its making me feel like a woman. When in heavens name did that have financial costs associated to it?

    Mama's boys are different from Mama's little husbands. Mama's little husbands are the boys I live next too. They are much too precious at 17 to work in the summer, take out the trash, go to church, boyscouts, band camp or whatever a single mother would have a well adjusted teenager do. He's much too precious to have a relationship with his father although she "didn't like him." He has assumed the role of being at her financial/social/household whim. Thats not fair to her. Its not fair to the world. Its not fair to whomever might take a liking to him (God help that young ladies soul.)

    I am sympathetic to some of it. Ok so the 70s-80s-werent the greatest decades to raise young Black boys. But I also don't believe that your children belong ONLY TO YOU and for you. On some level they belong to the world. Hopefully down the line they get married or partnered. They have families of their own.

  15. I have to give props where props is due. Comeback girl has handled her business on 2 blogs; hers and SBM's. Really though…

    *bowing down*

    I'll be back.

  16. @comeback about momma's little husbands, thats exactly what my little brother was/is/hasbeen. thank Goodness the child left for college, God knows what would have happen had he stayed and continued to be momma's hubby. Honestly now that he is gone momma now has to rely on self and actually go find new hubby/man a real one lol!!! lawd help us all.

  17. Man … I have a busy day at work and don't get to comment like I used to and now Tiffany is claiming I have been "handled".

    @Comeback: While me and Anti agree on a lot of things, I am going to need you to differentiate our arguments. I do bring up money and these concerns, but not that often. Glancing over the above post I see very little mention of the cost of dates or paying. Actually paying for dates is one of the things I'm usually quick to agree with you on. Anti has a very finance heavy background and works with numbers. Thats not my point though. I just hate to made out to someone who is counting $.10 for gum when I wasn't talking about money.

    The point of my post and annoyance was with this selfish attitude (which you admitted was selfish in the comments section of the post) of women who want the best of the old and new world. You can't be Ms. Independent, while still expecting your man to do everything for you. Maybe I just give women too much credit or expect them to be able to do for themselves, but thats how I feel.

    Going back to the calling … I don't know why you think its our burden to initiate and maintain phone communication on a daily basis. Nowhere in your post did I hear you talk about calling him or attempting to reach him. You expected to go about your day, do what you wanted and have this guy, who you care about, make sure he tracks you down. And that is just indicative of a much bigger problem.

    I'm about to run to something else, but I feel like I'm repeating myself. Expect more comments soon.

  18. SBM wasn't it you (pointing to the evidence) that was over on Anti's blog referencing ROI/ARPU/EBITA on the booty-particularly if she does tricks?

    https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=60316342

    It was YOU!!!!!

    I think you have me confused. the best of the old and the new???? My argument is that old and the new is blurred. There is no "OLD" really. My main point is that what my great grandma wanted and what I want (when it comes to family) is fundamentally the same. I still enjoy all the biological functions of yester year. And guess what many of the emotional ones are still there too!!!

    You also speak on male dominance. Many old school and new school women know and knew how to get what they needed by being strategic. Just because a man brought home money doesn't mean he did all the "WORK". Women also had their own emotional/physical/social and sexual currency. And just like today roles/expecations and wants were and are NEGOTIATED. Many of our grandmothers/greatgrandmothers etc RAN the household.

    I am about to go cop the book on Abigail & John Adams and their letters to oneanother. It has been said that on many levels she influenced his political policy and bent GREATLY. Where is the dominance with that kind of influence?

  19. NOw you know I was going to respond. I'm going to say what I have to say before reading everybody else's posts.

    The statement: "Men did these things because women, at that time, had to be cared for like children"….that's a bunch of BULL, so get out the shovel.

    Excuses come a dime a dozen and SBM, you know I respect you so no disrespect here, but men don't do the things like open the door, etc. because of lack of manners or because they simply don't want to–not because of the reasons you mentioned.

    Fortunately all men don't think like you in regards to this.

  20. @all the ladies: Ok – so let me get this straight. Despite the advances of women men should open doors, pay for every date, buy flowers, call often, be interesting, be entertaining, listen intently to his woman, get something special on Valentines Day and whatever else makes the woman he is dating feel "soft and pink". Brothas – DO NOT expect anything in return! God forbid a woman call you back – she sooo doesn't need to. If she doesn't it's just a part of the test. If you fail the test – it's just because you are a spoiled, coddled mama's little husband – or she just might not like you which is well within her rights.

    Never mind that the man can be dumped instantly at any moment. At least you tried. Always remember that a woman contributes more to a date than you – even if you pay – after all, she could be spending her time watching paint dry or better yet out with a more chivalrous suitor. Did I get the description of chivalry right? I can't wait to try this out!!! I know it's going to make some woman very happy and that's what it's all about!

  21. You touched on some truth in there. Not one to jump in the line of fire….oh well f it!

    Chappelle said it best, chivalry died and women killed it!

    Someone also touched on it. Too many bucketheads out there done f'd up the game for the good women floatin around. Ya'll sistas need to go and check they @ss! Real talk, homey!

    Fellas, any buckethead with the case of the gimme-this-and-gimme-that…give her some walkin papers, EARLY!

    *chunkin dueces*

  22. @all the ladies: Ok – so let me get this straight. Despite the advances of women men should open doors, pay for every date, buy flowers, call often, be interesting, be entertaining, listen intently to his woman, get something special on Valentines Day and whatever else makes the woman he is dating feel “soft and pink”.

    —after the first 6 or 7 dates. Paying everytime is not necessary. Hell if it feels organic on the 5th date I would pull my purse out…all else is accurate. AND???? So???

    Again I think you create your reality. the universe WILL yield to your expectation in getting nothing in return. TRUST AND BELIEVE THAT.

  23. *sigh* … lets all just breathe … rub our ears … and say "woo saw". While usually the instigator, I had some drinks after work and feeling good.

    I can't speak to every comment because there are just too many today. Here are a few one liners.

    @Comeback: If one joke I make about determining a market price for p*ss (an OBVIOUS joke) is going to be the way you analyze my opinion, not sure we can continue this debate. You know what I have to say is so much deeper.

    @Anti: I feel you … but "woo saw". Not every single female is the worst, just too many sadly.

    @Stank Stank: Thanks for bringing another male opinion. Forgot about that Chappelle quote. Like how you kept it simple. Feeling you … feeling you.

    One thing I forgot to mention about this whole thing is that its not every woman causing the problems, but that minority is really really loud.

    One person understood that my whole post was about equality in a relationship and everyone being on equal footing. I will do certain things because my significant other likes it and it makes her feel good (and "soft and pink") … but I hate this sense of entitlement and this selfishness at times.

    I'll talk on it more tomorrow. This goose got me loose.

  24. "I will do certain things because my significant other likes it and it makes her feel good (and “soft and pink”) … but I hate this sense of entitlement and this selfishness at times."

    That works both ways. Some men (and okay some women) can be selfish. Women should expect certain things from their men. If not, you'll be subject to dealing with low-lives and men who don't want to work, etc. RESPECT is the number one entitlement.

  25. This is good stuff. Very good conversation.

    The real issue is that all the folks with good sense are trying to dialogue with good intent and meanwhile, we've let the hoodrats and thugs run the asylum.

  26. "Women should expect certain things from their men. If not, you’ll be subject to dealing with low-lives and men who don’t want to work, etc."

    —Sheila –this is right!!! Women ultimately show men how to treat them. I think you can turn a mama's little husband into your own. But it takes work. Anti has been hoodwinked into believing that there is someone around the corner in fishnet black pantyhose waiting to steal his wallet.

    Tiffany

    "The real issue is that all the folks with good sense are trying to dialogue with good intent and meanwhile, we’ve let the hoodrats and thugs run the asylum."

    This is so true. SBM this deserves a post all its own. Perhaps we are paying for black women and men who have set really low standards for themselves and others.

  27. @Sheila: It does go both ways, but since this post was in response to Comeback girl, and was wordy enough already, didn't want to give you the whole novel just yet. And I'm not advocating guys being lazy and treating women badly or without respect, I just think some of the "demands" need to be relaxed slightly.

    @Tiffany: As some I think more about it, I will admit that not all girls fall into this selfish category.

  28. @Comeback: As I have had time to think more and mull over this topic I think it was a few key things that prompted me to expand and explore in retaliation to your post. You seem to indicate us men are just getting lazy and have been coddled so much that we refuse to do these "acts" that your grandmother loved and make you feel "soft & pink".

    Well, first, you never really say what soft and pink is. I have never had a problem with a woman telling me I don't make her feel womanly, but when you bring major complaints with a person who is doing their Med School Residency and find himself too busy to call one out of 7 days … well … I can't help but think you are too demanding.

    And your response to me saying "be easy on the poor guy. He's busy" is an elaborate post roasting the entire male sex and saying that our moms have robbed us of our masculinity and we no longer "act as gentlemen". Don't you think thats overdoing it … just a little!

    I love your writing and topics and was in full support of the "Black Man Plan", but when you feel the need to liken calling a girl you like (not a girlfriend even) to the biological act of urination … I'm sorry … but thats too demanding. I mean … it was one day he didn't call. One day!!!

    I still love ya though

  29. @Comeback

    To add on, the reason certain "old school acts" of chivalry have fallen out of style is not because of "Mama's Little Husbands". Its not that we as men have been coddled into this arrogance that gives us the right of refusal.

    Simply stated, women are different now than the 1930's. Its not that women don't want to feel "soft & pink" (I really really hate that phrase at this point) … its just the natural progression.

    Also, you seem to give us absolutely no credit. Like we kick girls down stairs now and push them to the side as we walk. Generally speaking, the majority of black men that are good or even decent know how to treat a woman. Even with all my talk and the things my dad did that I don't, any woman will feel sufficiently S&P around me.

    Its evolution. There were chauvinists who didn't want to see women work. They got over it, or they didn't make it. Its Social Darwinism at its best … adapt or die.

    I would like to see how far the woman demanding everything her grandmother was accustomed to, go with the millennium man. Let me find the guy who still puts his jacket in a puddle.

  30. SBM I don't DEMAND anything. And one of those days he tried to slip in text messaging which DOES NOT COUNT as contact to me. I also know his habits. First its one day-then one day turns it to TWO. And so forth and so on.

    What I will not DO. What NO woman should do. Is "LET THE SUN SET ON STUPID." My rules are ADAPTABLE. But I also have a sixth sense. And I don't bitch and moan either. Thats when I get SUPER busy. Perhaps the problem is that the situation has gotten too perdictable. And I know how to take my own advice.

    I don't think you should have to ask a man to call. Its what should be in his heart.

    I am also a single child of a large family with mostly men-particularly on my father's side. I spent a lot of time with them growing up. There is also a big age difference between me and my older male cousins. And I remember tons of women calling my grandmothers, aunts and uncles houses looking for these men. And the women that my male cousins wanted (who were also quite accomplished too) were the women who they pursued. Not the one's that made it easy for them.

  31. @Comeback:

    If the situation was specific to you and "O", then why make a post that accuses all men of losing our "gentleman" spirit and becoming coddled, soft, and arrogant … instead of localizing things moreso to the one person you know?

    Also, please give me some hard, clear cut, and detailed examples of what makes you feel "soft & pink" and what actions that we are casting away. Apparently every example I have given or chosen to use just doesn't cut it. Maybe in understanding what you mean I can properly address it.

  32. "If the situation was specific to you and “O”, then why make a post that accuses all men of losing our “gentleman” spirit and becoming coddled, soft, and arrogant … "

    Because he is a "reforming" (present active tense) Mama's little husband. And a year ago, the situation was getting TOTALLY OUT OF HAND. He was running the whole show (into the ground) and I was letting him. There have been times (admittingly when we were also beefing) when we went days without calling. So I know from that which I speak. FIRST HAND.

    And he knows that I love CHILVARY. Partly by the way in which I treat myself.

    I will comeback later to address soft and pink. because its quite involved and lengthy.

  33. @Comeback: Please do address it, because I think I'm shooting in the dark. Maybe every girl I have dated considers me some insensitive asshole and just never voiced it. Maybe I've been living my life blind … stupidly going around robbing women of their "soft pinkness"

    Ahh well … lol

    BTW … If your whole post and theory was based on the actions of one person … please state that. Even when I "go off" on females … I try to keep things in perspective in terms of how pervasive the problem is … although I kind of forgot this post (I am human).

  34. I thought chivalry was about rescuing people in distress…? if it is then I do it just as often for girls and guys as men were once expected to do it for women. It still exists, it's just transferred to different situations.

    Buying things for a woman who you are sleeping with or want to, is not chivalry. It's a low grade form of prostitution, and the only reason why it still happens is because it's difficult to complain about getting free gifts. But after 32 years I've learned that the free gift is never free and it's better to go halvsies, than it is to let the guy fantasize that women are being kept in their place by the almighty dollar.

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