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Old Fashioned Wife … Not HOT [LINK]

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As I was roaming around the web checking blogs, I came across this one post entitled “Do guys really want an old-fashioned wife?”, and I couldn’t help but think about my posts on Stay At Home Wives and the Death of Chivalry. One quote that I loved was:

What I’m seeing is that women are the ones that want to be old fashioned – the stay-at-home-mom and housewife – while men seem to want their wife to have some sort of marketable skill and to help out with the family finances.

Apparently SBM isn’t so crazy after all. Sure, it was just a question posted to a forum and this is just another blog, but I think the idea that there is a significant and widespread shift in the expectations of men and women and age old gender role definitions is well supported by this.

And for certain people, *cough* Comeback Girl *cough*, that the ways of our grandmothers … isn’t the way we live … and its not the way our kids will live.

Hey … or maybe I’m just too “new school”.

Comment(30)

  1. Hey … or maybe I’m just too “new school”.

    My question is can your hand reach all the way around your back to pat yourself? First of all your a perusing blogs crafted by white women. Our conversations are different!!!! And deeply interwoven with race. Apples to Oranges-though in the fruit catagory. Our black men have linked chilvary with fiances so much so its just as much a money topic as it is a race one. Underlying in the money discussion is the element of competition. So because I make more -it apparently means my door doesn't get opened. On our first date you don't call (knowing that we were feeling each other because the new school man says you wait 2 days.)…

  2. @Comeback:

    Ok, your stretching here … just a little.

    You are really big on this door opening thing. I'm sorry, but I'm not walking all the way around the car to come open your car door. Sometimes I'll come over and open the door for you, but rarely. If we are going into a building or somewhere … I always open the door.

    Whats wrong with opening your own car door?

    Also, its not a money thing. If my girlfriend makes 10% of what I make … she can still open her own car door.

    Also don't discredit any collective opinion just because its not solely black. We as black people don't live in a bubble. We do things differently, but that doesn't mean we can just discredit something as "white people do that".

    1. now i know i will catch flak for this, but opening your own car door is not an act of chivalry it is a commonality. so because he doesnt open your car door means he thinks less of you? he doesnt love you? i think we as women have become so super imposed by irrational standards that it causes us to distort the very images of ourselves, our expectations and also the demands we place on others. Not all the time would a man open my car door and not all the time would i want him to, because eventually it takes the spontaneity out it, and it will get boring overtime. so instead of pressurising him for trivial stuff use your frontal lobes on things of merit.

  3. @SBM: Comeback has a point. Black women shouldn't even be compared to white women when discussing relationship expectations. White women are overly submissive and they are willing to put up with too much bs – that would be a bad look for sistas. (sarcasm)

  4. ok maybe I would get out. but in the back of my mind that would be like a point against the brotha man team. Too me if we are driving. Its our first date. Thats apart of the dating ritual.

    What if you were going to a black tie affair? And she's wearing really cute heels and a floor length gown and a cute clutch. I guess she has to gather her dress, clutch her clutch and hold her own door???? That is utterly crazy. and that would be our last date. for real.

  5. LMAO @ previous comments…

    I agree that expectations of men & women have changed and will continue to change, as well as the definitions of our gender roles in the home & society. It would be impossible for them to remain the same given that all aspects are of life and humans are constantly evolving.

    I think that any man (under the age of 60) seeking an old fashioned wife is straight trippin 'cause the definition itself is damn near non-existent in 2008. Personally, I don't want an old fashioned husband.

    And I can open my own car door, unless my hands are full. But that's just me. Hope you find your door man Ms. Comeback. Cooking skills, financial security, and children are D&S' dealbreakers.

  6. @Dark & Stormy: Thanks. Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only one who has sees and acknowledges the change. And thank you for telling me you can open your own door. After the past day of comments, thats now high on the list of sexy phrases.

    @Comeback: If its a black tie affair, I can see it … but just like D&S said … you can open your own door. Its a shame … I had hope for us … but thats a dealbreaker.

    A girl once actually walked me to her door on the car for me to open it for her. She was done within a month. Its a dealbreaker …

  7. WOW SBM you have found some female literalists. Thats nice!!!

    The door is a ritualistic symbol. "O" did it in the beginning. It was nice. that was apart of the courtship stuff. And again its relative however I will say that if I was a man I would imgaine there would be some women that I wouldn't open the door for, much less allow in my car.

  8. @Comeback: Your killing me.

    You give specific detailed stories, and then say "I didn't mean it literally".

    I asked you on the other post to give me some detailed and specific situations. I'm still waiting over there.

    Also, what about what you said wasn't literal? I'm so confused now.

    Thats it … I think i'm gonna just quit! No more from SBM!!!

  9. SBM

    I am WORKING ON IT. Its going to take some time to break it down for men like you and ANTI. It requires tranlations, citations, and an index!!!!

    Come on now. We aren't just talking about you opening doors. This conversation isn't really about all of that. It is apart of the dating ritual that includes it. But this two day marathon is not just about a woman looking for her respective 'doorman'. That is a literal interpretation.

  10. @Comeback:

    Yes, I understand its more than just the door. But you literally included opening a car door as one of the things your not willing to compromise on. Its all I have to go on.

    And as someone else agreed, if a man's unwillingness to open your car door is a deal breaker for you … that's just demanding (yes you are demanding it, because you will leave otherwise).

    My argument is some of the things that used to be part of the "dating ritual" are just not done anymore. It seems that every example I use is just bad. Don't know what to say at this point.

  11. Men are from Mars and Women are From Venus. Your woman sends you hints and throws analogies that are indecipherable to the male sex while the man waits for his ESP and other powers to develop.

    How about just telling a man what you mean? Or should men just learn to think like a woman?

  12. There is no way I could ever be a stay home… I mean I didn't go on to get my master's degree to get married, pregnant and stay at home all the time. There is this co-worker of mine that literally said she was going to try to get pregnant on her honeymoon just so she didnt have to work anymore. What the hell did you go to school for, have hopes and dreams of a career for… she is a director of PR by the way and loves her job… a director at 28 in a male dominated field… and she would give all that up to sit on her ass for the rest of her life. Now mind you her husband is an investment and can handle all the expenses but I just feel like a part of my self worth would be gone if all I was doing all day was changing diapers, cooking and cleaning.

    1. @ EB

      I agree to some extent. My mother stayed home for 3 years then went to work. My father didn't want her to work. But she did AND raised three kids. (with him of course) Cooked, cleaned, did laundry, sewed, shopped, saved the world, all before dinner time. And all of us turned out into model citizens of the world. : )

      I honestly don't know how she did it. Being a mother IS a full-time job. I doubt a new mom is sitting on her ass all day. A baby is hard work and raising kids is among the greatest things an individual can do. You can't tell a mother, raising her kid is somehow less noble than acquiring a senior position at a firm. It's all subjective. If I have children I would want the luxury of being able to stay home with them during their formative years. There's nothing wrong with that. Your degree doesn't lose its value. After the kids are grown and gone, you can still use it. It's an individual choice what one wants to do at any instance of their life. Things can change. If you like it, I love it. I make my choices and you make yours but you can't jump to conclusions on how others spend their time until you are in that situation yourself.

  13. "How about just telling a man what you mean? Or should men just learn to think like a woman?"

    I'm quoting the man from the movie A Few Good Men…"You can't handle the truth."

    Some things you really don't or shouldn't have to spell out to the man. YOu can sit and tell a man exactly what you're looking for and that man can become that man temporarily but if what you're looking for isn't the core of that man, the "real" him will show up and then you'll feel hoodwinked. I would rather see who I am really dealing with and then decide whether or not I want to continue dealing with him. Why give a man another tool to be deceitful??? Not going to happen.

  14. A woman beings honest about what she wants = an opportunity for man to be deceitful?

    I don't get that. I will say that men and women communicate and express emotions differently. Women expect men to have well-developed ESP, e.g., set up the perfect date, say the right thing, do the right thing, etc. Come down to Mars every once in a while.

  15. Antidater, don't misinterpret what I said. I didn't say anything about a woman being honest…when did NOT TELLING you WHAT to do become being dishonest. I'm not going to give a man a detail account of how to be a man–so he can TEMPORARILY cater his actions to fit. He should be who he is and if he doesn't have a romantic bone in his body, then the woman should know that. Some things should be natural or the man should want to do some things just because—if I have to spell it out to you–then that takes the enjoyment out of it.

  16. I think this should be a new post I may do it myself eventually if i get around to it but it goes something like "how much is a house wife worth"

    This has to do with stay at home MOTHERS. I was in my financial class yesterday and the topic was about life insurance, how much is a stay at home mother worth. The average insurance policy held on a stay at home mom was $250,000. The calculation was based on if a mans wife died and they had kids how much would it cost to maintain his currently lifestyle (keep working) and maintain his household ie care for kids. one guy discribed his wife as (mary poppins) and says I simply just cant do all the things she does. This mostly dealt with white families but I can't help but wonder if our culture is missing out on something by not having this lifestlye structure.

  17. Anti

    I hate to break this to you but Shelia sums this up perfectly. Get out of "say what you mean…mean what you say" la la land.

    Observing a man's actions is the best way to determine if that man is for you. People show you who they are everyday all day. Words really don't mean a lot to me.

  18. I think I'm going to have to officialy retire from this argument. But I guess I'll leave my final thoughts.

    @Sheila: I think you provide a good in between. I do thing you can and should let your "interested other" know what is good and bad and what you like, not so he can fake it to trick you … but so he can listen to you and work on things as a sign of his love.

    @Mikki: There is hope out there. Don't think of it as molding … think of it as talking and compromising … because women could benefit from the same "molding" … we just don't say sh*t.

    @Anti: You fought long and hard in my absence, and you were on fire. Specifically "A woman beings honest about what she wants = an opportunity for man to be deceitful?" made my day.

    @Comeback: I'm sorry, but this is getting crazy. I've never got burned out on a relationship topic before, but I guess there is a first for everything. I think you need to stop setting up so many rules, be a little more compromising, and realize that your suppose to give too … otherwise its all just one sided. I haven't heard you talk about one thing you are responsible for to make things work. Even when it comes to "telling your man your likes" … thats doing too much. *sigh* … good luck with all that.

  19. In my opinion this is yet another example of most men not knowing what they want in a woman. If you are "old fashion" and want to do the stay at home thing you will be called lazy or better yet a gold digger. If you happen to be a successful black woman he will then be intimidated! This is just another muddy double standard but this is a good topic to post!

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