Home Dating & Relationships Relationships Why the Degree’d want the Degreed: Educated Black People Rule!

Why the Degree’d want the Degreed: Educated Black People Rule!

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My good friend and fellow blogger Mikki wrote a post recently entitled “Educated Black People SUCK!!”. Regardless to say … I was practically offended just by reading the title … since I consider myself an Educated Black Person and read Stuff Educated Black People Like on the regular. So I was wondering … why do I suck.

Apparently Mikki had been told by some EBP that he preferred other EBPs (defined by having a college degree of some sort) when it came to relationships … and this apparently upset her … higlhy.

I’m not sure how this person came across, but I can’t help but play devil’s advocate.

I can’t say a bachelor’s degree is a hard set requirement for anyone I marry or date seriously, but I will say its pretty durn close. Doesn’t have to be a bachelor’s, doesn’t have to be from any particular school, just has to be something from somewhere … or you should be in school working on one. If you don’t have one, there is going to have to be something about your personality or motivation to overcompensate … or just a good reason or story explaining why it just wasn’t/isn’t a priority.

*disclaimer*: I don’t really agree with the definition of EBP meaning a person with a degree … but Mikki set that definition. Personally … you can be educated and without degree … In my opinion.

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I know I might catch hell for this … but if I was afraid of that … I wouldn’t have a blog!

So … in response to Mikki … here are the:

Top 3 Reasons For an EBP to date an EBP

3. Earning Potential

One major concern of most (especially women) is the earning potential of their potential mate. It is no secret I am not accepting of the stay at home housewife, so the earning potential of the future mother of my children is somewhat important. There are plenty of studies and statistics showing the average person with a degree will earn more money than someone without one. There are plenty of people who have become extremely successful without a degree … but I feel like they are the exception … not the norm.

2. Similar Experiences

For me … college was an extreme growing experience. I matured more, learned more, experienced more new things, and found out more about myself in those few years than any other period of my life. It comes up a lot for me in conversations (especially since I’m in a Fraternity too … the best one ever at that … 06) … so I could see it coming up with the person I see every day but never experienced it. I don’t want to feel like I have to duck around the topic and not bring it up … but I can see it happening … especially if you hate all degreed black people … like some.

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1. Equality in the Relationship

With something like this … it was hard picking a #1 because I haven’t had to think about it in depth before, but I think this could be the biggest reason. For anyone without a degree, I would need to know why you thought going to school just wasn’t important enough. Was it because your mom died and you had to work to take care of your brother? Was it because you already had a small business that was in the black and decided to educate in some other method? Was it because you have a problem with core of the American Education System and your removal from it is a boycott of something you just couldn’t support? Or are you just being lazy and “don’t feel like it”?

If I decide to be with you I am obviously happy with you flaws and all … but I don’t think I could avoid never thinking about why you didn’t go to school and why I could do it and you can’t and won’t … assuming there weren’t extenuating circumstances. I know this same inequality could exist if I have a Harvard PhD and she has a associates from the county community college … but I guess I’m just not that bourgeoise.

Conclusion … Couldn’t help but write a response. As I repeat … It is not a hard set requirement for me that you have a college degree to be my wife … but best believe if you don’t … I want to know everything behind why.

Comment(100)

  1. SBM: you are on point today! I definitely agree with your reason number two. We had a set of friends that had not received their degree and you could tell they were uncomfortable when the topics would steer towards our experiences in college. College was definitely defining for me it presented a world outside of the little country town I grew up in west Texas. Education does not necessarily have to mean educated in the classical sense however, it does not hurt the relationship and provides extra nice benefits. Number one being the earning potential you listed. However, I can’t stand EBP that use their education as a crutch and their sole means of validating themselves: these people do suck!.

  2. oh hell no, I cant agree with this.

    how many sistas have you gone out with and you present your pedegree to them and take them out twice only to figure out she has some thug beatin it up back home on the regular? he isnt educated… infact he is smarter than you cuz he figured out how to hit it and not have to take her to cheesecakefactory every saturday. for me over the past year its been more than a few times I have seen this.

    Also, I like educated women for some reason (perhaps the area) I seem to run into them alot luckily.

    I myself am dumb as nails… but I am very aware of it. education is not usually the cause of any of them not panning out.

    and equality in the relationship. whoa! if she has a degree and you have a similar degree your still not equal. you make $ she will prob make a little more (since they now out earn us) and she will have control over the punanni. so you have 1 card and she has the big 2! thats not equality. eventually you need to gain another card if your going to progress or it will spiral out of balance.

    trust me theres nothing wrong with a stay at home housewife, an office secretary or even an ER doctor. they still need one thing…. to be down for the cause! Ill date a who is as dumb as I am if she has a good enough attitude and is down for the cause. I feel I can make it further in life with that type of woman.

    @SBM: the best fraternity? your a KAPPA? yo nupe!!

  3. yeah after reading… I gotta agree with mikki. its not the end all be all.

    Im gonna get booed for saying this. but at times it feels like some of our generation are so focused on the $$ we have lost focus on what has brought us this far in society thus far.

  4. Lets say I am dating someone…. who can we use as an example… ah I know Ms. Devereaux (shoves SBM out of the way)

    Lets pretend Ms.Dev and I are dating 10 years from now. I am working 2 jobs at the gas station and Kmart to finish payin her student loans so she is finish her PHD at princeton. (Woodrow Wilson school for a doctorate in Public affairs so I can groom her to be the next condoleezza rice)

    when she comes home after being in the library all day do you think she wants me to pop in and talk to her about the effects William Niskanen had on rational choice in public administration…

    or

    do you think she wants to sit on the couch while I sweet talk her about how fine she is and where I am

    going to take her this weekend when she gets time to pull herself away from the library?

    Change the situation… would me having my phd in my line of work (robotics) make me have more to talk about with her? cuz she really needs to know that you can make the IO sensor fail over to the userset default by inputing the vmoprcmp command in unix shell?

    getting along makes you get along. I asked "Miss ER" just now what she thinks about it and she said the last thing she wants to talk about when she gets out of the hospital is to "talk about the gawd damn hospital" in fact she says she would never date a doctor.

    she grew up in a city and I grew up in the suburbs. she has a great MD from a crummy small college. I have no MD or PHD but I went to a great university. (Similar Experiences)

    shes a doctor in the ER in the largest city in the world, I am a minor IT geek and floundering part time columnists (earning potential)

    im not sure what the hell she sees in my doofy Al Roker type ass but so far she seems to like me. I do know however that educatuion dosent have anything to do with our relation and is rather irrelevant. her blond moments trump jessica simpson on occasion.

    1. So you're saying that having a PhD would prevent a guy from having the ability to "sweet talk her about how fine she is and where I am going to take her this weekend when she gets time to pull herself away from the library"? Why do you assume that just because a guy has a college education means he can only talk to his lady about school stuff? That's a bit short-sided, don't you think? Most college educated people I know (including myself) are able to be well rounded people, meaning that it's not just all about "school" or "career" all the time. We know how to kick back and relax too. I'm a black lady with a college degree (electrical engineer), and I prefer to date a guy with one too. But just know that when I get off work, my friends and I are having fun watching movies or playing at the park or gym. When I'm not with them, I'm usually gaming my ass off. 😉

  5. SBM I honestly thought you would come harder….

    I am disappointed, I really thought I would have to argue with you today but doesn't look so since your reasoning didn't really strike a chord with me. ah well maybe another day!

    Thank you Hasani Finally we can agree!!!

  6. SBM, there is nothing wrong with wanting someone who has experienced similiar things as yourself.

    Some women feel that it's hard finding men at "their" level so they end up dating men who may not be as educated as themselves or in the same "income" bracket as themselves. Unfortunately if we only dated men with college degrees and with a compatible income, we would probably never date.

  7. I'd have to agree with this list for the most part. The shared experiences of college are important. There is a gentleman in my circle of friends that has not been to college and anytime a college experience or memory is shared he gets a blank look across his face and tries to steer the conversation elsewhere because he has nothing to contribute. If he was my partner it would drive me batty. While I agree that that having a degree is not a definitive marker of an educated person it is one of the first things people look for. In a mate the only way I'll subsitute my education requirement is if they have been in the military. That experience educates a person far beyond their years.

  8. les be honest… women like power.. money and security… thats why they like a man with a degree.

    let a chick find out your the son of a diplomat and the heir to the family business and she could care less if you never had to take a humanities course over again to raise your gpa…..

    lets be serious here and call a spade a spade

  9. "Apparently Mikki had been told by some EBP that he preferred other EBPs (defined by having a college degree of some sort) when it came to relationships … and this apparently upset her … higlhy."

    Why isn't Mikki's name in your post linked to her site?

    I'm a little on the fence with this. And though I have a degree graduating from an all- woman's college which gets the same blank stares from HBCU and white male/female institution graduates. I find that often with black people I have to defend my choice in education just as a highschool graduate would defend their lack there of. White people don't make the same judgements, and don't let me meet a woman from like Wellesly or Smith (or another all women's college) its like we are long lost sisters or something. Then we have to do a run down of our fellow sisters: "Hillary, Nancy Pelosi, Catherine Black, Alice Walker.

    A degree doesn't really mean as much to me than not. I understand that many ultra successful people are self-educated in their disciplines. And while a college background (NOT A DEGREE) is helpful, a peice of paper I find is much leses not. I have a science and math background, but nothing I learned helped me learn who to design a telephony network, or breakdown over the air signaling TCAP messages. I can appreciate the learning experience. But I learned more about people than how to make a living, how to be good at what I do.

    So what then is the consensus on people like Bill Gates, Oprah Winfrey, Woody Allen, Michael Dell, David Geffen, F. Scott Fitzgerald. (all college dropouts).

    I've dated one or two men without college diplomas…but I'm starting to think about what happens if I run up on a man who is a high income earner. I've met (not dated) a few. And I find many of them have ALOT to prove and overcompensate in the other areas, usually money earning and wealth generation.

  10. @SBM: Yes, earning potential is important. However, if you…SBM who drive a motorcycle…had to be out of work for a year, 3 yrs, 5 yrs…wouldn't you want your wife to hold you down, stick around…take care of you? Earning potential…with the current job that I have, I am being underpaid by appx $12K. So I have a high earning potential but my pay doesn't match what I'm worth to employer. I have an undergraduate degree; would I (with education being a HUGE relationship deal breaker) still be a candidate even though my employer is not paying me at my earning potential level?

    I had a roommate who went to school just to find a husband; her goal was to be a stay at home mom. Why did she allow her parents to waste money like that for an "education." I'm sure she could have paid less on match.com. My question would be: Why is education a potential deal breaker? "Experience" and "equality" isn't justifiable enough. Is it a status thing? What if I have a degree as an engineer and with a tight job market, I take the position as an assistant manager at Walmart because I got bills to pay? OR What if I have a degree in engineering and refuse to take a job until I get that job of choice? Who cares about bills…my parents got me. (just to help you out in that devils advocate role).

    @HNIC: "and take them out twice only to figure out she has some thug beatin it up back home on the regular? he isnt educated…" That is too funny! This is moreso a bad guy vs. nice guy than a degreed vs. undegreed issue.

  11. Based on SBM's explanation, Oprah an 'em are not part of the norm. I wish I could introduce SBM to my uncle who knew school wasn't for him…he worked hard and makes more money than his "college educated & degreed" wife who loves to chase a dollar. Let me introduce SBM to a friend of the family…although he works extremely hard to a living, brings home about 100K a year…and nope…he's not in the pharmaceutical's industry. Let me introduce SBM to my dad who is a high school drop out and owe his own auto repair business….These are all very normal people who had vision.

  12. About the “blank stare” comment, I guess I would feel uncomfortable in a situation with people talking about their college experiences but, I could say the same for the person who knows jack about mutual funds, 401k, stocks, and self directed IRA’s. “Blank stare”

  13. Neonnea, and let me introuduce you to MY dad (the youngest of 13 kids) who has an MA in Ed from Alabama State., once a vice principal of a local DC highschool (for 3 years in the early 80s) and lives on his family property in AL TODAY (and never had a job since) claiming he's "working" on starting his business for going on 30 years now. He gets real defensive when I ask him about this imaginary business. I wonder why?

  14. I don't think SBM was saying that there is anything wrong with people who don’t have education in the classical sense. However, for him it’s a desire he wants in a mate, much like the physical appearance of a person. There are certain attributes one desires and one of his happens to be formal education. For some other people it may be I want a man over 6ft (not trying to trivialize the topic, just giving an example).

    Laziness knows no educational background limits, people that are going to grind will do so with or without a degree.

  15. I agree MIK. Maybe its a level of perspective, maybe its maturity, maybe its relativity (cause there are other things that I get snobby about), a degree has never been one of them. Within the black community (there is Harvard and then there is everywhere else-lets forget about community college. Because to a Harvard (particularly to a black one) alum, if you didn't go to Harvard, you really didn't go anywhere), the same can be said about BAs vs, MBAs. MBA, MAs vs. PHDs. Where your kids go to gradeschool (Holton Arms, Sidwell Friends, Georgetown Prep vs. Everywhere else), where they go to boarding school Miss Porters or everywhere else.

    What gets me about "US" is that we have these crazy metrics of which NONE of us will never quite measure up. There is always some who makes more, went to a better school, has smarter kids, drives a better car, makes more money.

    Or maybe its my liberal arts education. I personally feel that there are multiple routes to a successful destination. Some people took or take a Lear jet, some people arrive by coach, some people hitch hiked its apart of the journey. This makes people interesting to me.

    I consider myself to be rather successful but people JUST like me, income, location, age, etc, bore the hell out of me. I want to always mix it up in my social circle. I want to always know that I can travel and operate within many distinct and diverse social sets.

  16. Jazzy I understand that is his desire just as we all have desires for our mates. I guess on my post I wasn’t very clear. Nobody actually SAID those exact words to me, I said I was dumped or “looked over” and I was in fear that my lack of a degree was a reason, which is how the post spun off. As a woman “A black woman” I always want to feel I am the best of the best for any man I date, I think its fair to say we all want to be good at what we do. The saying goes that if one company is looking to hire 1 person, one has a degree and the other doesn’t then more than likely the guy with the degree will get picked. I feel the same about my lack of degreedness. But I am the girl that’s going to fight for that job, which makes me “not the norm” Now if I don’t get it well what can I say, at least I tried. I don’t knock men for wanting an “Equal” education wise. I do knock those who says they won’t be taking me home to momma or bring me around their friends because I don’t have a degree.

  17. I here you Jazzy, but I'm confused about what that desire really says, does it imply that a degreed person has income potential. does ANY degree imply self motivation or creativity?

    What does it really mean?

  18. Stuff Educated Black People Like …can I just say something about this site…to me its NOT that authentic. In many ways it feels like posing. But as the "Black Socialite Blog" says the Black Elite have various characteristics that are location and age based.

    But SEBPL really lost me when they said that educated black people like "Grown and Sexy" parties. When I see these I'm usually turned off because it usually means its WAY "urban contemporary" in a I try very hard type of way (i don't like the word ghetto).

  19. ok lets be real here. you only THINK its a blank stare. I mean come on… how many of us here actually had the same major and went to the same college??

    so if ANY of us spoke about any of our college experiences the other would have no fukin clue what we are talking about.

    Me talking about Unix isnt going to make comeback girl wet. and it sure isnt going to stop her from running out the back door with the next thug who comes along and offers her a better ride. The college experience is overated to. I cant appreciate the black college experience or relate to it… but then again you only went to college undergrad for FOUR YEARS…. two of which you were drunk.

    I have yet to date a woman with less of an education than I have (except for target working girl but military and IT people get a pass in my book) in fact most women around where I live are graduate students at an ivy league college. thats way more booksmarts than my simple ass will ever attain. I hardy ever felt "blank stare" type feelings around any of them.

    I think my inability to generate money on a higher level and my non baller status played into more than a few. totally think thats what happened with "Miss may" the more i think about it.

    ooh date update, the indian lawyer dumped me after 4 dates in 10 days =/

    I got to comfortable and was overly nice to her. took her out to a nice margarita bar for a celebration and she started to bitch at me about me going out of town next weekend.insted of checking her I put my head down and tried to bargin with her to let it go. she blew even more on me … and in the middle of the friggin place! so I tried to "goonhand" her out of the building but she acted like I was trying to "assault" her. I cried I was gettin my shit told off so bad. I just got in my car and left her there. she just sent me a text saying dont bother to call her back.

    icky! we seriously need to work on a way to keep my pimp hand strong. right now its kinda limp with a pink ribbon around it 🙁

  20. I think one major thing I am noticing is the difference in age and feelings on the topic. Personally, being as young as I am … a lot of women I talk to (I do love older women … but on average I'm toping out at 26) don't have a wealth of life experience to draw from. When your in your mid twenties, college is still pretty fresh and significant and comes up often. In hindsight, shared experience should have made it to #1 because that turly is the biggest difference.

    As I said, its not a requirement, but then you need to be the exception to the rule. Also, the college dropout with a reason for dropping out makes more sense to me. Its obvious they value education, but life happens sometimes. If you just decided you didn't like studying though … well … u better have that fire bomb head then.

    @Comeback: The argument can be made for differences in a bunch of other metrics, but this is one that I personally hear about often. I have several male friends who feel stronger about this than me. Its not that she has to be your exact equal in all aspects (I don't expect her to bench press as much as me) … but I think the bar has to be set somewhere.

    @Mikki: Yeah, someone might give me the blank stare when I talk about directed IRAs and mutual funds, but a long dinner and some bar charts can introduce them to the basics of that. Also, how often do you really talk about it. But … how do I inform someone about the trouble of a bothersome professor, going back to an alumni dinner and seeing the person who failed you, or the problems with adjusting from the college world to the 9 to 5 world?

    @Hasani: First thing … pick a damn name and stick with it. You comment as Hasani and then follow it up as HNIC. You got a split personality thing going on?

    While I don't talk about work with my mates because my day to day grind would bore 95% of the populace … I do talk about college and professional related things. In the example you laid out with the person getting their PhD, who wants to come home talking about the 15 page paper you have to right and how the syllabus is crappy, and all your mate can say is "Yeah … my boss didn't give me overtime last week … i feel you". I mean … there is gonna be a disconnect. Even the person who did Community College can recall a memory of a bad professor.

  21. @Hasani: A f*cking Nupe!!! I'm insulted. Apparently you didn't catch that little 06 in the post.

    100 points to the first person to tell me what Phrat I am a part of and the significance of 06!

    @Jazzy: I really should have made #2 the top reason. The blank stare can be such a bad thing. You don't want to stop telling the story of seeing your first step show or that time you got drunk and slept through a test … but you don't want to make the person feel uncomfortable. Not sure I could do that everyday and in every conversation with the "love of my life".

  22. "When your in your mid twenties, college is still pretty fresh and significant and comes up often. In hindsight, shared experience should have made it to #1 because that turly is the biggest difference."

    Maybe you need a hobby. Because when I was 26 (6 or 7 years ago) GOD IT FEELs like DECADES AND DECADES…I had more to talk about than a college professor grading papers when she was drunk. I still use a saying though from one Stat professor she always used to say "get dirty with the data", I use this ALL THE TIME. Because data is SOOO important in what I do and it unlike people Data never lies.

  23. @ Comeback:

    "I here you Jazzy, but I’m confused about what that desire really says, does it imply that a degreed person has income potential. does ANY degree imply self motivation or creativity?

    What does it really mean?"

    Comeback I believe the meaning will be up to that individual, and the importance it is to that person. What is important to one person will not be the same for the next. Hope that answers your question because that's how I view it.

  24. @SBM I should take offense to your mmm shall we say distaste for nupes. Most of the men in my family are nupes and they are not gay (oopps now I did it).

  25. Yeah but I want to know what a degree means to SBM or anyone else who feels like him, aside from what was previously mentioned. I like men 6ft + so If I'm rocking 4 inch heels I can feel soft and pink and shorter, other than "your mother died excuses" or your "hate against the American Educational establishment" what does a degree really mean to SBM?

    does it boil down to marrying an "equal? " is it an indication that she has a certain potential to earn a living, does it mean she is self-motivated? What would trump a degree since the Oprah's and Dells and Thomas Edison's are the REAL exceptions? (please note these people ARE the billionare exceptions) but it is the skilled/trade crafts people that keep us out of recession when all the engineers, lawyers, doctors are complaining about filling up on premium for their range rovers at $89 dollars.)

  26. I was talking to an EBM yesterday from MD, he says he can't connect with MD girls because they are so materialistic. sayin they don't give a damn about his degree they only care about how much money he has and how he is going to spend it on them, and his exact words are "the educated ones are the worst" but he has come across both sides and regardless of education a gold digger is a gold digger

  27. SBM I noticed you said “you” aren’t the one against the issue but your counterparts are. Are the reasons you listed the same reasons your friends are using???

  28. SBM: I can send you a bunny cuzin. you can be guilt by association. my next door neighbor is a q and I constantly let the door slam on him when commin in the building… damn the neighborhood is goin downhill. though I gotta admit. the amount of women going into and out of his door trumps mine by at least double. even in their 30's they stay the same as their last teens…..

    Ya I dunno whats up with the screen names. mozilla has one name IE has another, work has one name… home has another, laptop has another…. ill try to keep em the same but come on now… we ALL know who the HNIC is!!!

    On the education topic. I like SBM am semi posh, and I will be the first to admit I seek and am turned on by a woman with a grad degree and higher. but I wouldnt say that a woman with no form of higher education is exclulded. thats silly and short sighted. but do what makes you guys feel comfortable. its not like decisions like this mess up the divorce rate of african americans or anything……….

  29. Higher education means something different to everyone…status symbol, increasing one's knowledge, "just what you're supposed to do". I like to see it as an addition to one's repertoire…but not necessarily one of the most important things. If the lady is a jazz musician without a degree and makes a living that way, or owns her own business, that is usually more impressive to me than having studied Biology at an Ivy league. The people that let their school/educational background define them are usually flaky as hell.

  30. FYI … just because I want a degreed individual doesn't mean I'm willing to throw out all of the other basic requirements. Golddiggers need not apply … nor the unmotivated … not the bucketheads (yes … you can be a bucket head with a degree … I've met plenty) … but it does rank high on the list.

    One thing I forgot to mention is that education is just really really important to me personally. I would like someon who shares that same zeal and its hard for me to believe that is the case when college wasn't really that important for you.

    @Neonnea: Earning potential is used in the literal sense by me. I mean your potential to earn money if for whatever reason u needed to get on your 110% grind and make that money (hmmm … sounds kinda like a pimp in hindsight). As for the person with the high potential and lacks the drive to utilize it, that is unacceptable to … I don't need lazy people around me.

    @Hasani: So are you a nupe … if so … I'm sorry man. Hey … I've made some mistakes in my life too! And lets not get carried around with this HNIC mess … we know who is the real HNIC around here! When it comes to here … only I got root (*nix joke).

    @Jazzy: Tell your nupe family members I feel sorry for them too. And thanks for the personal perspective on it. I'm not saying my views are the same as everybody's, I would never make such an outrageous claim … but I do feel its loosely in line with a lot of other degreed folk and whoever got Mikki's blood boiling.

    @Comeback: Didn't you just talk about the conversation that goes on everytime you mention your school's name or you meet another all-woman's college grad? That doesn't count? While the specific stories of professors and pulling all nighters might not come up on the regular, love how you ignored my talk of alumni functions in your classic "read what I want to read" Comeback girl fashion. Hell … don't know what "circles" (your favorite word for Hasani) you frequent, but even at a Happy Hour … "what school did you go/are going to" becomes the most popular ice breaker right after "so … what do you do?".

    @Mikki: A gold digger is a gold digger … but I have yet to find a correlation between education level and goldiggery … and believe that an overly analytical person like me has tried to make every correlation possible amongst my dating history.

  31. @Certified Vibrations: I agree. One dimemsion (even if its education) is still one dimension. Someone who has established great thing without a higher education degree is worth a lot. But I guess I took offense to being told I suck for having a degree and had to take the offensive defensive position.

  32. What it boils down to is will the person you are with keep a damn job!

    I will admit to preferring to date folks who have graduated or at least have some college because to be quite frank it's the shared experiences that makes it easy to have things to talk about. I've dated blue collar and have been looked at crazy because I mention liking to go eat sushi. But that's not all blue collar folk by any means.

    My mom has been married to my non degree having daddy for 38 years. HE encouraged her to go back and get both of her master's degrees. I have 2 line sisters married to dudes who have respectively, 2 years of college and a high school diploma. But they are 2 of the smartest, erudite brothers I've ever met.

    With age comes maturity and I want a man who is hardworking and is able to disucss the implications of Obama potentially being the next president. You don't need to have gone to college to do that. You just need to be well read and well versed.

  33. And to be honest, the fact that Mikki doesn't have a degree bodes well in her favor. The more education a woman has, the less likely she is to get married. Men say they want a sister with all those degrees, but they really don't.

  34. "Comeback: Didn’t you just talk about the conversation that goes on everytime you mention your school’s name or you meet another all-woman’s college grad? That doesn’t count?"

    SBM no it doesn't because I am bored to hell with it. My ADD has usually taken me Mentally somewhere else when people want to do the Hood, Wellesly, Smith, Columbia, Spellman run down. Most black men (at least I hope) don't share this experience with broad exceptions of say Morehouse and even then an all white woman's institution is varied from the converse.

    At this point in my life a degree doesn't impress me. And of the last few boyfriends I've had even in the last 10 years I can count on one hand how often we discusssed college. Maybe it was just my broad boredom with those conversations because I feel ANY body can go (typically). Many times I had to conform to a certain way of thinking to do well.

    People who kind of chart their own way, stike off to do something off the beaten path, Loss and then won big have always beat my ADD at a dinner table, party or bar. And there are tons of those people out there–the educational snobs don't ever really "hear" them is all.

  35. @ Tiffany In Houston says:

    And to be honest, the fact that Mikki doesn’t have a degree bodes well in her favor. The more education a woman has, the less likely she is to get married. Men say they want a sister with all those degrees, but they really don’t.

    Marriage should not be a determining factor on whether or not one decides to better themselves. If a man is intimidated b/c you have however many degrees then he's insecure and he's not the one.

  36. I agree with you Malayika. Just touching back on what Tiffany mentioned…we will just have to married smart dudes without their papers. By all means, I plan to get my masters, and PhD.

  37. SBM I really didn't mean to "offend you" In any way. At the end of the day like Tiff said can you keep a job is the point "for me"

    I know you say its not your end all be all but you would have a hard time convincing me that you was " cool " with dating a woman that didn't have a degree (in your age range). Just like I wouldn't feel 100% comfortable dating a man with kids would I deal with it? yea maybe but I will still have some deep down regrets. Is it the mans fault? no but you better believe I WOULD find ways to make him feel guilty and im not even going to lie about it, in the long run it will affect my relationship im a fool NOT TO acknowledge that.

    I can change my "status" but if thats really what your going to beat me over the head with until I do, then I really don't want to be with you. If im a bum and waiting for the next baller to save me then I can see a valid point. I didn't say your degree was worthless so stop acting like that!!!!!!

  38. The girl across the hall in my apartment says she is only in college to get a man to take care of her so she can be an educated house wife. want me to get her number for you SBM she has "earning potential" You will be amazed at how man females "in college" think that way

  39. @Mikki: I'm a believer that if you don't use it, you loose it. Unless those housewives are talking refresher courses, it could have been just a waste of time and resources.

  40. Gotta say I have dated men with and without an education (higher), and even those with "some". I must agree it really isn't nothing like exchanging "like experiences" with like minded men. And it goes without saying those with higher education "tend" to be more motivated in what they want to attain out of life than those who had not.

    I have found no major difference in if they have an undergrad vs. a master like me. As long as it is higher learning it works out on the same playing field.

  41. Mik I went to school with a bunch of white women who did (so black women don't have monopoly on gold digging). Its an exchange. What those women fail to realize is their "housewifeness" comes with a price. Even with the sexual exhanges and agreements in a marriage. I like the idea of being at home with my kids (but best believe I will have income ALWAYS coming in from multiple sources) and what I don't understand is that these above women don't realize how much of their power they're giving away. Even if you are involved with an independantly wealthy man, their is a certain amount of control he has inherent to your emotional/financial wellbeing (cause when you don't have money it is an emotional issue).

    There are some men how like "non-degreed" women, but I agree with Mik and Neonnea, is that a man ANY woman would want??? Even ultra successful men know that a woman who has her own varied money making interests is a more attractive one.

  42. And back to the topic of “non-degreed” ….to me it only means that you found an alternate path. It doesnt always mean that you lack initiative, fortitude, mental fitness. Many highly degreed people that I know lack tons of courage, they thought that getting to Z you have to first start at A. I have a cousin who 5 years ago with her JD was "MAD AS HELL" that i was pulling 140k with a BA. And paid for she her mother and my mother and I to rent a house in MV for a week.

    The expectation was I was still suppose to be struggling. But I found a path (through the back door) and no exact educational path…I mean from my degree I was suppose to a statistician or get an MA or teach. I wasn't suppose to be designing a wireless network.

    Mik, I admire you. Your journey you took is a courageous one. You are managing to save ALOT of money. You own property (and are extracting income from it) you are way beyond many "degreed people" I know. Rock on.

    …but you are a little thifty and you know damn well you can pay 16 bucks for Lalah's CD. So stop fakin. 🙂

  43. Lmao comeback I shoe hate you put my 16 bucks out there like dat!!! I am breaking the bank with that!!! sike nawl somebody is going to have to convince me she worth 16 dollars, im on the fence I mean the only song I know is forever for always for love!!! I mean I love the song but I dunno about the other stuff. Help me out!!

    U sure u dont want her number SBM?????? I can hook u up!!!

    Thank you comeback

  44. i really didnt learn much in college or grad school, i stole a lot of books, i was well read period, like ben franklin, malcom and thomas jefferson, i think they train folk, onre educates themselves

  45. Mik I read alot on your blog and you have inspired me to become debt free. And really I am taking a hard look at some of my expenses not the Choo, Niemen's ones :)…. And though I do disagree with some of the hard core Ramsey stuff (cause I think he doesn't really talk much about bringing in NEW money) you break down on your blog, I get the message. And not alot of Black folks are blogging about paying down ALL debt even some of the, debt we've been told was "good".

  46. @rawdawg: Props for saying that, I second that comment. Having a degree helps training-wise, and I guess you don't have to explain yourself why you never went, which avoids a lot of unwanted pressure.

  47. Wow Comeback you brought a tear to my eye. That means a lot to me really, coming from you remembering our hard core 30 post spat lol. I started that part of my blog to inspire others and it makes me feel good to know it does. You inspire me as well to make MONEY cuz you are seriously the shit when it comes to being Paid!! I wanna be like you well minus the Choo lol

  48. tiff in houston: hat Mikki doesn’t have a degree bodes well in her favor. The more education a woman has, the less likely she is to get married. Men say they want a sister with all those degrees, but they really don’t."

    biggest cop out ever. wanna know the reality? women who strive for higher education dont do it because they want to be smart, they do it because they want more money. your all gonna say no, but go a few post up and look at the post where you doged the sista out who went to college just to meet a husband. anyway… women who want money in this generation are more often to want more so they are single more. women who make more money, cheat more and are less like to get and stay with a man. … so basically they are like MEN in the 80's

    just like a stock, the most stable woman is one that isnt going to sprawl. men arent intimidated by women with education… women with education are just less tolerant of relationships. dont blame us…. we havent changed in the past 60 years.

  49. I agree to a certain extent.

    I am a year away from my JD. While it wouldn't be so hard for me to date a man who didn't go to grad school or even undergrad, it might be difficult for him to be with me. Men have that thing, ya know, sometimes.

    I have a couple of guy friends who started school and didn't finish, but who are quite smart and doing well in their chosen fields.

    One is an artist and works in advertising. The other does some sort of programming. My point here is that while the FORMAL education isn't a must, the equivalent (life experience, self-teaching, being well-read and having a career) is necessary.

    Going to college was the best thing I have done for myself so far. I learned so much. I find men who learn and continue to thirst for knowledge extremely sexy and attractive. So yeah, I agree that it can only help a relationship if we're similarly situation in terms of education. I mean, think of how many networks we could tap into together (alumni assoc., frat/sorority, professional orgs, sports, etc).

  50. I agree and disagree, I think there are people out there who have their own different talents that lead to a better earning potential. Look at people like Bill Gates he did not have Uni degree but he managed to become one of the most richest men in the world. And there are those Uni holding degree people who are totally dumb when it comes to an arena thats not educational. And most/ some highly educated people can not hold a relationship. I agree because ofcourse we all want to be with people who are on the same level, goals with us.

  51. click on the link that says finances under categories. FYI its nothing exact, its my personal journey in reference to money and getting outta debt.

  52. I have to agree with the 3 points. But, I have a lot of friends who are in the military who have far more earning potential than alot of my friends who have grad degrees. Now, I've had my JD for several years, but needless to say, its not something I wave in the face of others. I noticed in the MD/DC area that people use their degrees as some badge of prestige. Yeah, it's great you got your degree, but if it's only sitting on your mantle collecting dust, what good is it doing.A degree does not always equate to money earning. I know tons of folks, with grad degrees who are still struggling, either because of the profession they choose to be in, or because of one they're stuck in. Honestly, if a man doesn't a degree, he better be in the Military, for me to even give him the time of day. I've dated men who were not college educated and for some reason we just weren't on the same page. I remember telling an ex of mine that I had passed the bar, and he basically was like, "Oh..ok".

  53. You can have a Doctorate in astro physics from Princeton and graduate magna cum laud and date a guy who didnt even finish highschool…. he wont get disinterested or be turned off by your "superior education" if your cute… keep your fat ass in shape… and remember the 3 main things that you have to do to keep any man no matter who he is

    Sex

    Food

    Space

    there you go ladies I have just given you the floor plan to land any guy

  54. @ Comeback: Did you miss me?

    My 2 cents: Birds of a feather flock together. You enter into cohorts like neighborhood, high school, college, professional circle,etc and you develop relationships with the peioke you spend the most time with.

    I've met some very attractive and intriguiging women who didn't go to college. It was a turn-off when they would shy away from certain conversations. SBM, you missed one point – some folks may not have had the funds to go to college. Everyone isn't automatically able to qualify for a loan or a scholarship.

    I live in DC so I get tired of the "what school did you go to/what dergees do you hold" BS. At this point, it really doesn't matter. It's really about what you do with the knowledge you have accumulated.

    I could see myself being with a woman who didn't go to college if she had wisdom, maturity, good financial management skills and a high level intellectual curiousity. They don't teach those things in college…

  55. I can't say right now that it matters about a guy having a degree. He does need to have some type of 'hustle' going and intelligent enough to hold a decent conversation on a variety of subjects.

    College is a great experience and there is nothing that compares to it. I went to college right after high school. After about a year in a half I left. During that time, I experienced a lot of things I wouldn't have gotten in college. Now I am finishing my undergrad since I know exactly what I want to do.

    I have a wide variety of friends who have their doctorate and some who don’t have degrees. Those who that don’t have their degree are not intimated by anyone with a degree. It’s like you said SBM you can be educated without a degree. In my humble opinion a degree doesn’t make you educated it makes you trainable.

    Granted some can’t relate to the experiences in college, and might feel uncomfortable when the subject comes up. I think if somebody is uncomfortable in the discussion about college life that didn’t attend; it might be an insecurity issue with that person. If decide not to attend college you should be comfortable with that decision.

    Jazzy said….”I can’t stand EBP that use their education as a crutch and their sole means of validating themselves” I totally agree with this statement.

    Let me get back to the point, as far as dating of course I am open to everyone if you are self educated or have a degree, just long as your are intelligent.

    Since I have been on both sides of the fence to me the only difference between the time in a college and when I ‘dropped out’ was the college life is a more secured environment. The ‘real world’ is always the best teacher, but if you can do the college thing, then go ahead. However, don’t discount a person simply because they didn’t take the traditional route

  56. Ok, just now reading all these long ass comments….

    @Mikki: " I understand how you feel cause at some point I felt the same way as far as…As a woman “A black woman” I always want to feel I am the best of the best for any man I date, I think its fair to say we all want to be good at what we do. The saying goes that if one company is looking to hire 1 person, one has a degree and the other doesn’t then more than likely the guy with the degree will get picked. I feel the same about my lack of degreedness."

    I felt the same way for a while, then I realize why I wasn't in school and came to the conclusion that if a man can't respect my 'hustle' regardless if I have a degree or not then he need not apply. At that point I had become completely comfortable with not having a degree and wasn't intending on getting one at the time.

    I really didn't know other women looked at it the same as I did. I guess since I never expressed it that is why I didn't know…lol

  57. Comeback what are you talking about?????

    Ms. Devereaux

    Thank you I couldn't have expresssed it better lol. I am slowly becoming comfortable with all this which I am now seeing the affects it has on the men I date and talk to. Once I am fully comfortable I am sure it wont bother me as much as it does now to hear people talk about the issue. I just want people to respect my hustle for what it is "mine" I don't ask people for money dont ask you to pay my bills or buy me this or that, I take care of my self, so why worry?? I hold my own…. now you go hold yours lol

  58. Wow. No wonder so many black women are single. Not only must a woman find a man, she now has to find a man with a degree, no kids, attractive, over 6ft tall and one who's WILLING to settle down with them.

    That limits you to about 5% of the black male population. The other eligible 10% with those stats already date white women.

    God help you if your not a dime. Over thirty you can forget it.

    Soon your going to start believing what you are already telling yourself.

    I don't really need a man.

    Women make this much more difficult than it has to be.

    HNIC nailed it.

    keep your fat ass in shape… and remember the 3 main things that you have to do to keep any man no matter who he is

    Sex

    Food

    Space

    #1 and #3 are the most important.

    Good Luck.

    1. "That limits you to about 5% of the black male population. The other eligible 10% with those stats already date white women."

      That's sad. Aside from the height thing, the other standards shouldn't be so hard to meet. That's an interesting point – why IS it so hard for a lot of black men to meet those standards, especially if they want women to meet the same ones? And who says we black women have to date within the black male population? LOL! Don't be so silly, not all of us are stuck on dating only within our race, and not all of us care who black men chose to date either.

      Plus, not all of us are fat, just like not all black men are thuggish, violent criminals, uneducated, polygamist, down-low losers. Right? Stop speaking in generalizations – painting all of us with the same brush. And stop disrespecting black women. You think you're being funny/clever, but you're not. Grow up, and stop using the computer without mommy's permission. Maybe if you had a dad you would have a little bit better idea of how to be a real man 😉

  59. @MBM Married Black Male…that's why I'm divored after 21 years of marriage. Men are so shallow, Sex Food And Space. Did all that shyt and more …ended up feeling like cinderella in my own damn house. Fuck that. I know have a bag of dicks in my closet, and some real good porn. Works for me and I'm not as tired when I'm done. LOL….and yes I don't need a man except for show when I go out..Can't take the bag of dicks to a corporate function.

  60. It is really hard for me to really take an angry comment like MBM to heart. You're married but your post reads like your mad as hell. So you come on a board reminding black women why they just can t get it right, sounds like a a great catch and an even better husband.

  61. I'm sorry … but MBM has a point. Chris Rock said the same thing and I can't help but agree.

    "Feed me, f*ck me, and shut the f*ck up" – Chris Rock

    Obviously its not that simple, but these are 3 things that really must exist for the marriage to work … but yes Scorpio … if that is all that is going on … its time to move on.

  62. The actual degree isn't as important to me as whether the guy is intelligent and motivated. I like guys who are a little bit nerdy but still socially adept. Those types of guys usually pursue higher education. So while a degree isn't necessarily a requirement for me to date a guy I find that the types of guys who I am attracted to happen to have degrees.

  63. I am a 28 year old college student(Bachelor of Health Science major). I am going to college to make more money, not for a title. I think that most people in our community base a person's value on education;it is because of the legacy of slavery. The value of a person, come from within and from life experiences, not what type of degree they have. Let's keep it real, many blacks obtain PHD's for prestige, they want someone to call them Dr. this, Dr. that. Why do you need a PHD, if you are not going to become a professor.

    Nothing wrong with getting an education, but when you obtain it, remain humble, don't start correcting your family members English, or refusing to eat moma's collard greens and fried chicken and sweet potato pie, because you know you want some, lol. Stop putting so much emphasis on the letter s. You better eat the food at the family reunion. Man,I am hungry. I am a southern girl(Georgia), so that is why I mentioned fried chicken, if not fried, baked or broiled,and yes, seasoned with seasoning salt. Let me go eat.

  64. SBM I recently discovered your blog and I have to say I enjoy it immensely. I realize I am months late on commenting on this blog but, I felt compelled to do so. Both you and Mikki make interesting arguments as to why EBP suck or rock. But I have to say SBM takes the cake in this argument.

    I agree with SBM that lack of a degree is not a deal breaker when dating but, I want to know the details of why you didn't ever go to or complete higher education. Having a degree doesn't make you "educated" or smart but it shows you have discipline. I know quite a few people that have degress that aren't very bright but they are diciplined. A degree means you were able to focus, manage time and had endless possiblities to network. All 3 are important and essential skills that are needed in the "real world".

  65. I totally agree and blogged about this as well. Educated black people do rule!! And I love my educated black hubby … couldn't have it any other way!

    I love your site and will be spending whatever time it takes to read every post. It's so funny!!

  66. "Let’s keep it real, many blacks obtain PHD’s for prestige, they want someone to call them Dr. this, Dr. that. Why do you need a PHD, if you are not going to become a professor."

    Hell yes. It's about time somebody said this.

    "Nothing wrong with getting an education, but when you obtain it, remain humble, don’t start correcting your family members English, or refusing to eat moma’s collard greens and fried chicken and sweet potato pie, because you know you want some, lol."

    Again, hell yes. lol.

  67. Obviously I'm late as hell on this lol. I just discovered this blog courtesy of my gf (pause)…… Lots of good stuff here, happy someone made a blog like this.

    Signed,

    Son of an Epsilon Chapter Alpha.
    1906, 100 years of Epsilon, 1909-2009.

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