I was gonna take this day off and go relax … but comments yesterday forced me to say a few words on the subject. If there is one thing the “blogoshpere” is not lacking … its some woman begging, pleading, and compaining about chivalry, the lack of it, or why it has degnerated over time.
*irritating brain rattling mentally drained quadruple sigh*
I have already talked about how Chivalry is DEAD … well … Mortally Wounded, so I won’t go into depth about it this time. Chivalry is dead and its untimely death can be attributed to a healthy percentage of women robbing us of the desire to be “chivalrous”.
I always hear about why us men must be more chivalrous, about how every woman deserves these extreme acts just because their a woman and why we are “not men” because of changes in societal norms.
I think my biggest problem is there never ever seems to be any talk of what women do to deserve such treatment.
Apparently you don’t have to earn such treatment … apparently having a p*ssy garuntees it. *sigh*.
Well … I am a kind soul. I treat people in general with respect and kindness and I will always treat deserving women with the utmost kindness that they deserve. But I will not promote, condone, or support this ludicrous notion that your special for just being a female. Your not allowed to be selfish and self centered and still expect treatment reserved for the good ones.
Good people are special and deserving because of the size of their hearts and the actions they show the people in their lives!
P*ssy != Special!
Mom … I know your not reading this … but I love you. Your soul and generous spirit is what I base the prototype on … thanks for giving me a good basis to guide me in my search for a good woman.
My mother told me on her 2nd date with my dad, they only had enough $ for one slice of pizza and they split it. she could hear his tummy growling at the end of the night she said.
todays woman wants you to give her the whole slice and starve.
I had a date with the sexy sista who lived 2 hours away in white plains NY. she said there are no decent non thug middle class black men up there, and she didnt want to date a guy from the city, so we started dating eachother online. While walkin thru the mall one afternoon we head for the exit. I stop to look at a coat in the window, but then head for the doors. A 40 year old white woman who had packages in her hand holds the door for me and I say thanks and I go thru. I get outside and miss whiteplains is nowhere to be found. She is still inside the mall stairing at a door. I go inside and she is now pissed because I didnt hold her door for her..
now remind you… she was ahead of me…… and we went through separate doors on separate sides of the hall.
I got bitched at about it for the rest of the night. and she actually stopped calling me after that. But it cost me a ton to drive up there and pay for lunch and a movie, why did I have to do so much extra? I wasnt the one who was saying "theres not enough black women" for me to date. If your a 30 y/o SBM with a job and no kids… your not having any problems dating either. Your rather valuable.
So not only do I not understand treat a woman like a princess when she isnt going to treat you like a prince. Why are you treating me like I am "General motors" stock when I am "Berkshire-Hathaway's" stock. You single black men are in HIGH demand at 30. dont let anyone fool you about your stock value… the market is buying what you selling.
1. How do you know a woman is "special" enough to deserve your chivalry unless you get to know her first? In which case would mean you're being a d*ck to her off the top until you get to know who she is and what she represents.
2. Some things are just standard. Both men and women should RESPECT each other. Men should open doors for women and pull out chairs… whether you're boning the woman or not! And if you want to say it's because she has a pu$$y, so be it.
3. In 2008… my opinion of a lot of men (not all) in this society are taking on roles of the woman. Men complain more, they whine more, they catch attitudes sometimes even worse than a woman would and they fail to see how they've been spoiled from the beginning of time. Let us not forget how pampered men were back in the old days (and some still today). You had homecooked meals three times a day, mens clothes were washed and pressed by women in their home. They even got their beard shaven from the woman (thinking back to the Color Purple scene on the porch. MEN HAVE BEEN PAMPERED FOR CENTURIES. All that was expected in return was that the man take care of the home and provide for his family. Open doors and pull out chairs. Big dang deal!
4. Chivalry should exist not only because a woman has a pu$$y… but because she's able to carry your child, birth it and take care of your spoiled ass all at the same time!
Now don't get me wrong… I don't think you should be a simp about it. However, some things should come natural and out of respect for women in general!
@Hasani: My dear sweet hasani. Everyone has different dating standards… so I'm not going to even comment on the whole mall door thing. Whatever floats your boat. However, I will say that in my relationship… my man pays for the majority of our dates. If he's low on funds; I step in and help replenish them. We support each other. He opens all my doors for me (although my hands work), he pulls out my chair, he walks on the outside closest to the street when we're walking somewhere… etc etc etc.
Here's the kicker… he doesn't do it to get anything in return or because he feels "I deserve it"… he does it because that's how he was raised. Whether he was with me or next to some strange woman he hadn't met before… the same gentleman-like standards would still apply. Just because you drove "oh so far" and "paid for that date" doesn't mean you shouldn't do the other gentlemen like things. It's saying "I did this for you so you don't get this other stuff too". Do things because you WANT TOO not because you expect to receive something in return.
@HNIC – I cosign your #2 post 100%. She riffed about me not opening a door. Nevermind the distance I traveled, that I paid for everything, or that I dropped you off at the door so you wouldnt have to walk in the rain. I dont open one door and catch hell.
"its some woman begging, pleading, and compaining about chivalry, the lack of it, or why it has degnerated over time."
I ain't begging and "compaining" (is that a new word for complaining and campaigning) NO BODY. I'm telling you on this day, that there are men you don't have to ask. I've been taking this class in church on COURTSHIP and DATING. And can I just say that it is in scripture that a woman is special and that she should be WOO'd.
"But I will not promote, condone, or support this ludicrous notion that your special for just being a female."
How is possible for you to give your mama props and then come with some statement that sounds like you were raised by a pack of wolves in the woods. To me its called frame of reference. My father was a lot of things (even to the detriment of BEING A GOOD FATHER, but thats another post for another day). But one thing I can say, is that he ADORED my mother. And my grandfather was the same way about my grandma.
SBM I really hope you get your mind right before you go off and get married and have WOMEN children. Cause that's the punishment for the above statement.
"I think my biggest problem is there never ever seems to be any talk of what women do to deserve such treatment."
I totally agree 110%. My question is if a man is being chivalrous in the beginning what is the female version? Maybe I am missing it. What do women do to go out of their way to treat a man how a man is suppose to be treated in the beginning?
And while we are discussing this there is something else that needs to be addresses. This idea of men being providers. If you are a fully functional mentally stable ADULT you should provide for yourself. I and other men do not base their manhood on how they can feed, cloth, and pamper a woman.
"Let us not forget how pampered men were back in the old days (and some still today). You had homecooked meals three times a day, mens clothes were washed and pressed by women in their home. They even got their beard shaven from the woman (thinking back to the Color Purple scene on the porch. MEN HAVE BEEN PAMPERED FOR CENTURIES. All that was expected in return was that the man take care of the home and provide for his family. Open doors and pull out chairs. Big dang deal!"
I am so glad you made this point! This is why I don't support chivalry
Chivalry was commonplace and used at a time when women did for their men. Most women nowadays would look at you like you were completely out of your mind if I asked for any of this stuff … so why in God's Name should I be expected to provide you with all the niceties of this time … but you don't have to do any of yours!!!!!!
I just don't get it why we are still held to these old standards while the new "liberated" female doesn't do nearly as much for her man as her predecessors!
I'm boycotting this site…starting (tomorrow)…
Ms. Freckles is RIGHT about it all.
SBM please shut that shyt down…you sound so whiny and complainy but yet and still you were deeply in love two weeks ago, and all of a sudden you single again??? It was NOT this site. It was the above notions you are tryna drop here. Why can't men like you just say, I'm not ready. I'm going through a selfish period/decade/point in my life and instead of PRETENDING I would like to settle down to have one woman…I'll just "spread my love" for a few more years.
nothing at all wrong with that…just don't disguise your lack of maturity and inability to do such…as women are some selfish biotches.
lets call a spade a spade.
…and no one is talking about chilvary from a "can you pay my bills" perspective….get a clue please.
1. How do you know a woman is “special” enough to deserve your chivalry unless you get to know her first? In which case would mean you’re being a d*ck to her off the top until you get to know who she is and what she represents.
I will jump in for SBM on this one. Im going to once again speak for all black men eventhough I normally only speak for my type.
We resent that you think we are ALL going to treat you badly just because you see us portrayed this way on TV, in movies, and you your romance novels.
We are not joe thug and "Shareef Hood." Humble, Lion, ANti SBM and myself… yall hear us speak every day. You guys have seen my profile friends and pictures… I mean.. come on. How can you be so ignorant to insult us like that? Like SBM is automatically going to kick you down a flight of stairs and cum on your curtains just to be a dick. Like I am somehow open hearted enough to run boyscouts to a camp on Thursday…. but come saturday night Im slappin you around and tellin you to fix my dinner.
You cant say "OMG TREAT ME GOOD BECAUSE I CARRY YOUR BABY"
woman, dont you know you cant have that baby without me either?? what the fuck is your 4 months of being heavy compared to the 30 years it takes both of us to raise a child?!!?!?!?
want to talk about symbolism? I protect you from harm with my very life and body TIL THE DAY I DIE!
Now how about since I am protecting your life and the childs life at the sake of my own…. you pull out my chair? how about you buy me an Xbox because now you make more money than me?
or why dont we do it my way…
Im going to treat you like I treat you. Black men treat black women good… VERY good as far as the loving, care and sex department goes.
If you want more of this love… treat me better than you currently are and aim to treat me better than I treat you now…
"I and other men do not base their manhood on how they can feed, cloth, and pamper a woman."
I usually don't do the quote and respond thing, but today is the day for it if there ever was one.
I agree and hate it when my manhood is attacked because I didn't open a door or some other minor detail.
Emasculation is not something these old chivalrous men were accustomed too. That is what killed chivalry. I bet these old men who were doing all these things never got cursed out by their woman, were never told they werent' a man, and never recieved the amount of blatant disrespect that we as men in 2008 have to brunt and near on a daily basis.
While Hasani is way too extreme, he has always had a point in saying the way his grandmother treated his grandfather was the source of his treatment towards her.
Its like we're out here getting spit on and supposed to shine your shoes while we're down there.
First off… as a woman… I take great care of my man (however, I am NOT his wife yet). As someone stated on Very Smart Brothas website — if you want me to treat you like my husband, you need to treat me as if I'm your WIFE! Simply put.
My girl friend's 5 year old son knows to allow a woman to walk in first! How old are you men again??? It's the basic stuff. Things your father should have taught you as a adolescent.
@Comeback: If you need to leave then leave. I am tired of you referring to my ex thats not my ex and talking trying to relate that to me. Don't throw stones when your in a glass house because we can talk about some people getting left if you really really want to go there.
The girl I love, she knows where my heart is and how I feel. She actually blames women like you for helping to kill chivalry. She has told me time and time again how your overly demanding attitude, your unwillingness to do anything for a man, and your rant about not being a "dick's chick" is some of the stupid sh*t that keeps women single well into their 30's.
I don't want to hear my gf's name out your mouth anymore. If you can't oblige … leave now.
"@Comeback: ….Don’t throw stones when your in a glass house because we can talk about some people getting left if you really really want to go there."
Left where??? please EXPOUND???? LOL and if I was please oh pretty please tell him and HIS daddy that its over. Cause it was only a couple of weeks ago that I was still getting calls.
"I am tired of you referring to my ex thats not my ex and talking trying to relate that to me."
this sounds like more double talking!!!! Yesterday she was so today she's not??? I'm just saying!!!
"The girl I love, she knows where my heart is and how I feel. She actually blames women like you for helping to kill chivalry. She has told me time and time again how your overly demanding attitude, your unwillingness to do anything for a man, and your rant about not being a “dick’s chick” is some of the stupid sh*t that keeps women single well into their 30’s."
GOOD ONE…..please don't go home early over my comment. Firstly its not that SERIOUS. But how can I not help to draw parrallels when YOU mention her. And she MENTIONS herself??? I just find it curious.
But yeah…so I'll take the "L" for your relationship's demise. We can go with that…Its my fault and my chick's chick theory along with everything I stand for. I probably AM a game killer.
Im extreme… but obviously spending 10 years with one person I must be doing something right and must have a correct mode of thinking….. meanwhile if your someone who cant seem to get past the 4 year mark on a relationship and your around 30 years old…… your mode of thinking could be the problem.
Oh and SBM, its my GODmother who adored and worshiped my GODfather… to see two people in such bliss with love and life is what I have based my entire life around.
ANd comeback. If your calling SBM immature, Im gonna have to defend him. Im the same age as you and I actually CO-sign what he is saying. Are you going to call me immature now? because i am totally not the one you should call frivolous about love and relationships here. We arent only talking about pay my bills either… we are talking about the respect part. Why am I pulling out your door? its NOT a form of respect, knights only held doors because YOU WERENT ALLOWED TO WALK NEXT TO MEN. Now you are my sista… not my black queen. You walk next to me and not behind. Your voice is just as important as mine.
there is no more courtship…. because I am not getting a dowry. We are taking medieval terminology and twisting it to be what YOU want it to be. We are equals now, I dont have to treat you like your a child, its demeaning to women and the progression you have made.
We love black women, but seriously there is no need to "worship" someone who is not a deity… the worship is only one sided.
Damn SBM… comeback whacked you with that one… I felt the pain from here. The girl is vicious Im gonna keep my head down after that one cuzin.
Freckles said First off… as a woman… I take great care of my man (however, I am NOT his wife yet). As someone stated on Very Smart Brothas website — if you want me to treat you like my husband, you need to treat me as if I’m your WIFE! Simply put.
I have said this a thousand times. you dont get credit for treating your man nice … ITS WHAT YOUR SUPPOSED TO DO. But my mate is my partner not my princess. There is no reason why I am going to make less or the same as you but for some reason spend large amounts of money on you for gifts. Alot of you sistas are the same size as us men… why do I have to get a door for you? A size 14 is a pretty big gal, I dotn think this GLASS DOOR is going to exactly crush you.
like Humble one said… what is the female equivalent of "chivalry" according to you modern middle class black women? I need to know what standards I have to start making these women I date measure up to.
"We are equals now, I dont have to treat you like your a child, its demeaning to women and the progression you have made."
Exactly. And its like you are wrong for looking at a woman as an equal. When men did all of those special little things they were condescending and pandering to women. You think they really felt you were a queen? If they did feel you were so special why were you discouraged from going to school? Why were you paid less than a man for the same work? Why did they want you in the kitchen pregnant and barefoot? Because you are a queen?
"your mode of thinking could be the problem."
You are ABSOLUTELY right. I could NOT agree with you more. I never said that I had all the answers at my age. (JUST ON FACE VALUE) a 10 year relationship over a 3 year one (BY age 30) is not necessarily more telling than the other. It doesn't support what you think it does.
I think most women can say that by 30, they could have been married at least once. But at this point in my life, if its not right, if we aren't aligned in perspective, morals, and ideals…I DON'T WANT IT. And if that means that I'm called a spinster 10 years from now, then I will be a FLY as he#ll 40 year old. Because what Im not gonna do is compromise what I feel has been put on my heart to make society think I'm doing what I'm supposed to do as a woman.
"there is no more courtship…. because I am not getting a dowry"
yeah..cause your getting free bootay…sex without committment and absent of love. And again I'm not judging but just don't try to tell me that chilvary is dead, when what is for you IS NOT COST EFFECTIVE. there is no way in he#ll you can "chilvalirize" one woman…and thats ultimately your quagmire…not the notion of treating a woman like a queen.
lets be honest…treating women with a form of chilvary comes at an EMOTIONAL and FINANCIAL price. And you are willing to pay neither at least to all the chicks on your roster.
lets be real about it…k..thanks
You just don't get it and that's fine. It's not my job or place to teach you… so much power to you and your ignorance. If I'm blessed to have a son one day, I'll be sure he knows what chivalry is and how to treat women in general. And for someone such as yourself to brag on a 10-year relationship… WHY THE HELL AREN'T YOU MARRIED? Exactly. Knowledge is power!
This blog seems to be getting hella serious for some internet ramble. Lets take it down a noch and stop attacking each other simply over one's opinion versus the others. SBM it's your blog and you have the right to vent and write what you please. But when you allow others to comment, they also have the right to write and vent the way they please. Everyone is not going to agree on the same things… that's what makes us individuals.
As someone who has a blog (outside of blogspot)… I don't write anything I don't want people to read or bring up in the future. I also have it private so only people I pre-approve can read and comment. I say this for this reason…. you cannot get upset legitimately at Comeback for bringing up your ex-girlfriend/current girlfriend. Why? Because you put her out there. If you blog about it… people will talk about it. A simple solution is to avoid bringing your personal life into your blogs if you can't handle peoples commentary on it. Ya know what I mean?
@ SBM: "Chivalry was commonplace and used at a time when women did for their men. Most women nowadays would look at you like you were completely out of your mind if I asked for any of this stuff … so why in God’s Name should I be expected to provide you with all the niceties of this time … but you don’t have to do any of yours!!!!!!
I just don’t get it why we are still held to these old standards while the new “liberated” female doesn’t do nearly as much for her man as her predecessors!"
I call bullshit! Seriously… As a woman in her late twenties although I am independent woman who can do for herself I have no problem doing for a man. BUT I am not willing to do for EVERY MAN. For the man who is genuine and has a chivalrous bone in his body. I will cook 3 meals a day ( yes, I will pack his lunch), I will clean the house (most likely mine and his), I will wash the clothes, pick up the dry cleaning, press the sheets and press the clothes and service my man when ever and wherever! The thing of it is ..how many men have been worth this.. how many men expect to get all this without the courtship or the chivalry let alone a man who is WORTH ALL THIS BECAUSE AS WE KNOW AND I HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT because I know that among a group of 100 men you have 20 riff raff mixed in…
mf's with girlfriend/wives at home
mf's still livin at home with their mamas
mf's whose only aspiration is to make beats or get a record deal…
Maybe the reason you all arent gettin this treatment from women is because your not worth it and the women who are willing do give it to the riff raff are probably the women that complain about the dick chick women because they feel inferior
Free booty… so now sex means more to a woman than a man?
Not sure you have your pussy turned on comeback…. but I have yet at our age to be more into sex than the omg hyperdrive horomonal rolercoaster that post 30 women with no kids have compared to us 30 something brothas. I have a sex drive like a turtle.
Mature women need sex MUCH more than men do, its part of your biology. So how ass backwards do you sound saying we are supposed to treat you better than you treat us?
you need sex and you need a man….. I dont need sex as much as you and theres less of me and there is of you…. but I am for some reason supposed to treat you BETTER than you treat me? hell at our age you should be wondering wow these black men are great for treating us as equals and not getting a swelled head about being in such high demand.
This blog is not about sex today. Can you stay on topic please! No one cares if you have the sex drive of a turtle and it's none of your business how Comeback's sex drive is.
Freckles: if you know what chivalry is… please teach and enlighten us.
but you dont REALLY know what chivalry is in real terms like I do.
I do Medieval re-enactments
I am an Pendragon legend enthusiast
I am a dungeons and Dragons playing geek….
if you can find a black man who knows more about knighthood than me… please send him my way.
speaking of chivalry and knights… isnt Sean Connery a knight? Isnt he known for the comment that he respects women but knows that they need to be kept in line every once and a while with a good smack???
I also notice I never attacked you, but you come at us very disrespectfully. how can we take you seriously?
Im a black man, Proud and old and seasoned, and you talk smack about my love life like I know you? but treatment like this is supposed to garner you EXTRA favor from us as black men? yeah you wouldnt talk to me in such a manner in person I promise you that.
i open doors, walk on the outside, pull out chairs. etc. In the grand scheme of things, it's not that much extra effort. I try to treat people as best I can – guys get a respectful nod, women get doors open.
You never know, that might be the high point of someone's day.
Now if I'm carrying all the bags and she's twenty steps in front of me, standing there waiting for the door to magically open, she'll stand there all night. I like to do things for women when I'm not obligated. Agree? When a woman says "you have to do this, because I'm a woman, and I'm me, and you're obligated" that's what kills chivalry. And if you expect me to go out of my way for some stuff you can do, it's inefficient.
But when a woman is like " I'd like him to open the door, but if he doesn't I won't come down on him hard, or complain to my friends. I'll simply tell him I like it when he does " she'll get doors opened often.
why. so. serious?
Dayumm.. well said SBM. I don't expect anyone to do anything for me. Actually, I don't want anyone to do everything for me. In this day of the Independent woman, I think women don't want all the chivalry that was around back in the day… and I mean back in the day of "Shaft".. I mean back in the day 40+ years ago.. and Yes I mean back in the day of 'Color Purple'
Chivalry in the 2000+ is different than it was in the past. It's taken on a whole new definition and perspective.
I treat all with respect and expect the same from them … Any thing beyond that is earned. Earned.
I treat everyone with respect cause that's what we're supposed to do. If you act a fool…. you'll get treated as such. You get what you earned..and you get what you demand..
I've done those small things for women.. open the door.. pull the chair out.. take gas to them when their car is out… change their tire when it's flat.. carry groceries to the car when they need help. These are the things that should be done with anyone that needs help.
Earn it…you'll get it!
Convo between my GROWN MAN and I in regards to today's topic:
me: Talking about they only give it to deserving women and how women dont take care of men and should be equal
Boyfriend: walk on the street side of the curb…etc.
yea…but if your a gentlemen than your a gentleman
Boyfriend: u dont pick and choose
me: It stems from how you were raised
Boyfriend: i mean …some women do deserve to have the door closed on them…lol
like…u hold a door for them and they just walk through and dont say thank you
then u wanna get the next door and let it close on them…lolthen u wanna get the next door and let it close on them…lol
or u let them go in front of you for something….and they dont acknowlege it….
thats annoying …but hey…it comes with the territory
u dont stop being a gentlemen because of it
me: I agree
NOW THAT'S A REAL MAN FOR YOU!
Ethan, I applaud you my brotha. Well said… but then again what do we know, we are fuckin stupid morons because we date or have dated white women…. right?
I give respect to my lady. But you have to EARN and be worthy of the extra stuff.
I dont date a princess
I am trying to settle with a PARTNER
Bottomline is: MEN SOUND LIKE BIOTCHES when they whine about holding a door open and not receiving a thank you for it. Should you get one? Yes. I always say thank you! However, because someone doesn't say thank you or acknowlege it everytime you do it doesn't mean you should stop. I think quite a few men have their identity mixed up. They want to be the man but act like a woman.
@why so serious
" I like to do things for women when I’m not obligated. Agree? When a woman says “you have to do this, because I’m a woman, and I’m me, and you’re obligated” that’s what kills chivalry. And if you expect me to go out of my way for some stuff you can do, it’s inefficient.
But when a woman is like ” I’d like him to open the door, but if he doesn’t I won’t come down on him hard, or complain to my friends. I’ll simply tell him I like it when he does ” she’ll get doors opened often."
This is how I feel. It is not that I won't do these things. But when you act like I am obligated that kills it. Not only that but when you also feel that your very existence is enough of a thank you for chivalry who wants to do it.
but when are you going to hold a door for me especially when some of you women are as big as us men are?
why cant you pull out my chair?
what exactly IS the full code of chivalry… dont look it up… tell me.
what is it that you think should hold men to a separate standard in todays society than women?
I wouldnt call us biotches. I would call us brother, lover and friend.
some of you sistas are not half the woman your grandmother was, and your income and pedigree has not a damn thing to do with it.
I agree Ms. Freckles…what the he$ll is the big deal..if you;re intellectualizin about a door (and that's really the meat and bones of it-making a woman feel special through sweet gestures as such) then I SERIOUSLY doubt you are going around doing nice things for people PERIOD.
I like men who are NICE to other people. Like Shelia said yesterday, its in how you treat your mama, and I will go as so far to say HOW YOU REFERENCE OTHER WOMEN. PERIOD. Nobody is perfect, we've all come up with our fair share of toads and toadette's, but when she's reduced to being a tric$kaZ@zz bytc#h…I got a problem, because what happens when you dont like me all that great after an arguement.
what will I be reduced too.
Chilvary is dead, because it has a high emotional (and financial cost) to be displayed for and to ONE WOMAN. It suggests exclusivity and committment. Chilvary is also dead because ***some*** men just aren't nice people. If he's talking down to the grocery store clerk or flippin off his neighbor…how the he#ll is he gonna "chilvarize you FOR REAL"..
everything else is playing…
Ms.Freckles summed it up nicely"
How do you know a woman is “special” enough to deserve your chivalry unless you get to know her first? In which case would mean you’re being a d*ck to her off the top until you get to know who she is and what she represents. (I'll add if a woman automatically accepts your bad behavior from the jump that's her. Men who disrespect women will continue to meet the chickenheads and no chickenheads have no respect for men so of course they are going to treat you bad. Do not take out what a chickenhead does to you on a new woman.)
Some things are just standard. Both men and women should RESPECT each other. (I'll add here: Some actions are just natural. When a man (or woman) has to force themselves to be nice to someone they know nothing about-something is wrong. I can only understand those type of actions when you know the person is selfish and treat others bad. But I can not understand people treating strangers badly. It makes no sense if a woman is walking behind you and you're going through a door that you don't hold the door open for her. It doesn't make sense if you see a woman carrying a load of boxes into the post office and you don't offer to help. Displaying chilvarous attributes does not make you a simp.
"Seriously… As a woman in her late twenties although I am independent woman who can do for herself I have no problem doing for a man. BUT I am not willing to do for EVERY MAN."
Why is it you get to choose if a man is worth it, but I can't choose if a woman is worth it. What kind of double standard bullsh*t is this?
@Ms. Freckles: I know I definitely mentioned a good healthy amount about my gf/ex and that situation, but I don't feel like I should be attacked in that manner for voicing my personal opinion. While there are others who do (*cough* Hasani), I don't and I actively stand against it. While I disagree with Comeback and have written to express my disagreement with her, I wouldn't say something like "thats why you got left for a white woman" or some personal and inflammatory statement. For her to say to speak to the inner workings of someone I love as an outsider with bits and peices is just disrespectful and I'm not gonna put up with it on my site. Thats just how I feel.
While I understand your boyfriend feels all women deserve the same treatment no matter what, I just can't do it. Its like soul wrenching to do for someone who is selfish and undeserving. Even he can admit that the chick who can't raise a finger to help him while in return and still expects that same treatment although the circamstance are different (the man's hands are full) … she is a b*tch … and deserves to be treated as such.
Honestly, you sound like a good woman. I don't lump you into the same category. You don't let yourself be walked over, but you care and nurture your man … and I have a feeling he knew this well before things were official. I mean … handstand head … you get all the chivalry for that one.
@Why so serious: Demanding these things sooooooo kills and crushes my desire to do them …
@Everyone: Hasani made a point which no one noticed. Just because I can't subscribe to all of these chivalry things doesn't mean I walk around being an ass. I still open doors for female friends, girls I date, and my mom. I don't pull out chairs, but I grab bags of groceries, pump gas, and other things. But there are just some things I can't force myself to do if you just don't seem worth it. I'm not gonna do it just because your a woman … i'll do them because your a deserving, great, or special woman!
"but when are you going to hold a door for me especially when some of you women are as big as us men are?
why cant you pull out my chair?"
Dude, are you serious???? If I heard a man say this I'd assume off top that he was gay or borderline tempted to engage in homosexual activities. I'm not even trying to attack you… but there is a valid difference between men and women!
Humble and Why so serious (good name btw buddy)
You guys are on the lighter side. I was actually lighter and more sunny than you two about this time last year when I joined the blog. But going on 50 dates (actually Im on 49 now but whose counting) has hardened me to what life is like in 2008. I was traped back in the 1998 mindset. I treated my woman like the earth revolved around her and the woman treated me like I was the sun and the universe started and ended with me. So it was culture shock for me to come out here into this maelstrom or 30 something black dating.
Your disposition may change slightly. You may have a sista bitch at you for not springint ahead to open a door for her….. but then expect you to call her back when you could go out with someone else insted.
I obviously treat any woman I date well, hell ALL of us black men of this generation treat these women well. Our mothers have made us too compassionate and the women are taking advantage of our open hearted nature.
Men and women need equal rights in dating now that they have equal rights in the household and society.
here, let me put it caps for you because obviously none of you can hear or see, it must be the estrogen you have built up from not getting any….
what is it, that you think, should hold men to chivalrous dating conduct in todays society that women shouldnt adhere to
GIVE ME THE BLACK AMERICAN WOMANS DEFINITION OF WHAT CHIVALRY IS WITHOUT LOOKING IT UP
", I wouldn’t say something like “thats why you got left for a white woman” or some personal and inflammatory statement. For her to say to speak to the inner workings of someone I love as an outsider with bits and peices is just disrespectful and I’m not gonna put up with it on my site. Thats just how I feel."
SBM..I went back to #9, and I don't think anything I said was inflammatory. I don't even know the specifics of your situation so I didn't assert "she left you". I gathered that it was a mutual parting of ways. But since thats off limits (after it was a subject of the blog) I will not go there anymore.
"My question is if a man is being chivalrous in the beginning what is the female version? Maybe I am missing it. What do women do to go out of their way to treat a man how a man is suppose to be treated in the beginning?"
Humble One, a person shouldn't have to go out of there way to do anything. It should be one of those natural acts of just doing. I think that's where the issue lies in. If you feel like its going out of your way to open a door, then of course you're not going to want to do it.
Being courteous is a two-way street. It's not one-sided. If you do something nice, then a simple "thank you" regardless if this is a woman you're interested in or a stranger you're holding the door for should suffice. Women do need to say thank you. Most women are natural givers anyway so if we go into that, most women give more than they get on any given day.
"And while we are discussing this there is something else that needs to be addresses. This idea of men being providers. If you are a fully functional mentally stable ADULT you should provide for yourself. I and other men do not base their manhood on how they can feed, cloth, and pamper a woman."
I'm going to blog about this later but what you just stated here is a problem because most men want a woman that's not their wife to act like their wife so in turn the woman is like the cookie isn't free.
When grown folks who are not married to each other start acting like it and men start back courting women then this issue on both sides will subside. Don't expect a woman to perform wifey duties when she isn't your wife and women will not expect men to perform husband duties from a man that's not their husband.
Are you saying a man is only a man when he caters to women.
Chivalry = BEING A DAMN GENTLEMEN
Whoa. I am finding myself ending up on the male side of this more often than not and I honestly can't understand why. As a former "cut your dick off and take it home in my purse" kinda chick I can understand the men's viewpoint. In fact, I would more or less lean toward saying there are moments in time where we completely and totally do not deserve to have anything done for us because we walk around with our noses stuck up in the air like some men are our servants. So not true. As I've gotten older, my motto has been friends first, team second….we're friends, partners and lovers. We should be equal and furthermore, when I stopped feeling like I deserve chivalrous treatment, I began to get it. I think if women lightened up just a little I think we might get more.
I'm not saying that at all. There is so much that makes a man a man. Chivalry is only a SMALL fraction of it.
"When grown folks who are not married to each other start acting like it and men start back courting women then this issue on both sides will subside."
And Halleujer …again
PREACH ON BROTHA!!
but let me speak for my types.
Im not sayin “i will never treat a woman nice” because what women want as chivalry is only a one way street.
and while talkin about BLACK women…. our society and culture are not condusive to this mode of thinking. We never had nobility in this country, and chivalry is a code used by knights and nobles during wartime. Dosent apply here with us.
Example. Black women make more money than black men. So why on gods green earth am I supposed to pay for all of our meals, buy flowers, pocketbooks, and shoes… as well as supplicate? I am just as valuable to a black woman as a black woman is to me, she is my EQUAL twice as cunning half as compassionate…. we compliment each other . You NEED my skills to sustain your household, and I need your skills to sustain it as well.
So if we are both equally as valuable, why should I be held to a separate set of standards than you?
Treat us nice and we shal do the same. I didnt buy “Miss ER” a $700 dollar watch because I was “supposed to.” I got it for her because she is VERY nice to me….. and because I knew she was gonna break down in tears and cry and stuff over it 🙂
Dont try and play a “gender role” thing with me… or I will have you in the kitchen making my dinner and doing my laundry on the 2nd and 3rd date.
So reading these comments have saddened me on the state of relationships all together. All this talk about chivalry what a man should and should not do and what a woman needs to do to get him to do this is disheartening to young hopefuls who want to hopefully find the person they are meant for. let me first start of by saying this: Chivalry doesn't have to die but as time changes so does the act of chivlary. My guy firend held the door open for me one day, not because i was his girl or he was trying to get in my pants and i thought that was chivalrous because he didnt have to do that. I didnt jump on him about it, nor did i sum up any conclusions about him, I just thought his parents told him to open the door when he is accompanying a female. The notions of chivlary and what chivalry actually is may be misconstrued with all the misconceptions of the gender roles we have in our generation.
and since i love words i decided to look up what chivalry actually means :
–noun, plural -ries for 6. 1. the sum of the ideal qualifications of a knight, including courtesy, generosity, valor, and dexterity in arms.
2. the rules and customs of medieval knighthood.
3. the medieval system or institution of knighthood.
4. a group of knights.
5. gallant warriors or gentlemen: fair ladies and noble chivalry.
6. Archaic. a chivalrous act; gallant deed.
oo dictionary.com you never fail me.
Since we dont give arms or knight anyone in america, the notion of chivalry died with the american revolution.
What men used to do was "court" women which was a long overhauled process of which the end result was to be marriage. It was dating but the couple was rarely seen alone together and the man had to ask the father if he could "court" the woman, hence the tradtion of asking for the daughter's hand in marriage. When a man was courting he used to do the things that were discribed under the term used her as chivalry. Chivalry goes back to the notion of a "knight in shining armour" and personally i dont want that.
I want someone who i can grow with, who can protect me when i need it, and let me stand my own ground at the same time. Yes its nice for him to open doors, pay for things, but sometimes i want to be like i got it (in reference to paying for things) so he feels like he's taken care of. Men and women have an obligation to take care of each other. bottom line. sweet gestures are nice and should come from both sides.
@Comeback-I agree. I still think it has to be thought out and understood. Until we can stop and understand where they are coming from and they can understand us then we're going to have some problems.
SBM, by the time a woman decides a man isn't worth it–its usually after he has showed his azz…whether it be verbally or via his actions. So no, every man doesn't deserve "special" treatment.
@Jaclynn: I almost cried. Thank you.
As I said … no good woman is undeserving of the world, the moon, the sun, and the heavens. But Sheila made mention to it … a woman who can't even say thank you when I open the door for you … who doesn't even look appreciative of the little things I do to make you happy … who says "your just doing what your supposed to" … well … why would I want to do it for them.
Me being chivalrous is supposed to make you feel desired, and respected … so expecting to have some appreciation shown in response is asking too much now???
I have to cosign what SBM and HNIC have said. None of us are kicking old ladies down steps and being rude to people. You can ask every woman I have dealt with and they will tell you that I am not disrespectful. I help my mother and took care of my great aunt. The funny thing about this is that some of the 'REAL MEN" I have seen that are chivalrous are complete a**holes or simps with no backbone. The a**holes are all nice and sweet and tending to yours needs at the same time they are hitting everything moving.
@the Ladies: Did yall collectively trip over your curling iron cord and bump your heads? I have been watching the convos and not really commenting but hot damn! Women really think that it's the man's roll to be protector/provider like the old days but ladies don't have to do sh*t but sit and look pretty. F*ck that.
@Shelia: Courting? Courting? Really??? When you courted a woman "back in the day" it was just one woman. The Sex in the City chicks want to date Big and Adain while asserting their independence unless they are out on a date. You can't court the Sex in the City chick.
I feel that cries for "chivalry" are coming from women who feel insecure about their woman-hood. That's a post-women's lib problem for women – not guys. Stop expecting to be put on a pedestal from day one just because you aren't feeling so hot about yourself.
@Sheila: If every man doesn't deserve special treatment, why does every woman deserve it?
I just can't wrap my head around it …
All of us can look up the origin of chilvary and of course these are "new times" so the origin of the definition doesn't fit in with today's times. Most of the words we use original origins might not fit if we were to really dig deeper. I said all of that to say; however one definition that still stands true–no matter if it was back then or now is chilvary is being courtesy and respectful towards women.
@SBM-Exactly, I understand what you're saying when you have a good woman, you'll hand her the world because you know she's got your back. I think when you have a woman who is willing to hold your sh*t down and you know she's capable of it, then you don't mind doing what you gotta do to make sure she feels special. To me this is the essence of what our grandparents were doing. My grandfather knew he could trust my grandmother to handle his house, his kids and everything and as a result she never wanted for anything. Now, I believe if i'm going to be with a man I want him to be secure, and as a result I feel he should make sure that I am secure. It's about supporting the other and complementing, they should not complete each other, because each and everyone of us is a formed whole.
Seriously Comeback this post had absolutely nothing to do with me or SBM and I's relationship status. We dated for several months, he only recently announced our relationship, that does not mean that it recently began. This post was not laced with sibliminal messages to me, chilvary was not our problem. As I stated yesterday he has never had a problem communicating, he doesn't need this blog to reach me. I don't recall anywhere on this post him mentioning this site in relation to chilvary or our relationship. He is capable of having an independent thought outside the realms of our relationship. I'm still trying to figure out how you CREATED a correlation.
Now I normally sit back and watch the drama unfold with you, but I will not and can not let you speak down to SBM the type of man he is or our relationship, one that you know nothing about. Yes there were things that he could have done differently on this site, one of them being you, but the site didn't break us.
His complaints are valid, it's women like you, the always expecting, always wanting, and always needing yet super self sufficient women of the new millenium who take every chance they get to beat the hope out of good men like SBM, bring out the evil in genuinely sweet men like HNIC, and entice the bitch in other women like myself that is doing our society and our race a great disservice. Miss lady you don't know your place, and from the looks of things you never did. You lack class Comeback GIRL, you may know how to spell it, eat it, live it and project it, but you lack it and it wreaks from your core. Now this is a grown woman's game miss lady and I suggest you fall back because you're neither capable nor ready to seriously be a contender. So I'm going to ask you(nicely of course), if I am not directly mentioned for you to not incite me to respond.
Have a good day all.
Chivalry is Bull$h*t. Knights were actually thugs hired to extract money from peasants.
opening the door isnt special treatment. Me taking a man's plate when he is finished and is in my house or his house isnt special treatment. Its just something we as people should do… as GOOD people in general!
I think we are all getting caught up on symantics and not really outlining what the point is…
PEOPLE should just treat each other better. Treat each other like we would want to be treated and we should receive that same treatment in return. We shouldnt do things with expectation to get something out of it although sometimes thats enevitable. I think that point is that although sometimes we (women) or men as the converse treat people as we would want to be treated dont see it reciprocated and therefore stop doing those things that we were raised to do. I just think everyone should just take a big girl or big boy pill and say "I'm doing these things because I want to.. because thats the way I was raised and thats how I want to be treated"
"Me being chivalrous is supposed to make you feel desired, and respected … so expecting to have some appreciation shown in response is asking too much now???"
SBM, the woman should show some appreciation. A simple "thank you" with a smile goes a long way.
"@Sheila: If every man doesn’t deserve special treatment, why does every woman deserve it?
I just can’t wrap my head around it…"
Some women don't; however that's a judgment call. The point most of us have made is don't "NOT DO" something for women just because of the specific women you may have come across that showed they didn't deserve it.
WOW! What just happened in here?
amen, i think my whole comment was taken out of context.
Okay… as a woman I practice chivalry too. If I see an elderly woman or any woman for that matter struggling to carry bags… I offer to help (whether she wants to accept it or not). I hold doors if I go thru them first and make sure whoever is behind me makes it thru the door without it being closed on them.
It's just being NICE that counts. These things aren't manadatory, but should come natural as someone mentioned earlier.
For the men who want women to open their doors and pay for all the dates… good luck with that one.
But for those who are well mannered in general… THANK YOU!
I got a question…would you buy an expensive dress without trying it on? Sure, it looks good in the window. But does it look right on you? Or buy a car without test driving?
Am I making a case for women and men sharing "wifely and husbandly" duties before marriage? Best believe if I'm marrying a woman, I want to know how her cooking is, how her finances are handled, etc. I'd rather iron that stuff out before we get married, and enjoy our blissful marriage afterward…
Due to youth, I quite don't understand what "courting" is…Could someone clear it up for me 🙂
Courtship, From Wikipedia:
"Courtship is the traditional dating period before engagement and marriage. During a courtship, a couple dates to get to know each other and decide if there will be an engagement. Usually courtship is a public affair, done in public and with family approval.
It includes activities such as dating where couple go together for a dinner, a movie, dance parties, a picnic, shopping or general "hanging out", along with other forms of activity. Acts such as meeting on the internet or virtual dating, chatting on-line, sending text messages or picture messages, conversing over the telephone, writing each other letters, and sending each other flowers, songs, and gifts constitute wooing."
Omg! Did wikipedia include "text messages"? How'd that get in there?
"You lack class Comeback GIRL, you may know how to spell it, eat it, live it and project it, but you lack it and it wreaks from your core."
WOW AND WOW…..LOL…I think that may have actually been a bi-ploar compliment. I can spell it, eat it, live it AND project it….but I lack it??? I'll take IT!!!!
thanks SBM's girlfriend, I in no way meant to "talk you up" simply making observations. And I SINCERLY apologize for being the representation of the problem for your relationship. And I will watch my key strokes to neither "incite" or excite the bytch in you again.
Antidater – I don't buy into the "sex in the city" mentality because those women on that show don't represent me nor any of my friends. I don't care how "independent" a woman is, she still likes to be courted. Since the original topic isn't about courting, I'll leave my comment at that.
On a side note: Women date multiple guys for the same reason men date multiple women–OPTIONS. Why commit yourself to a man who is not committed to you???
Also when did it become wrong for both parties to expect respect from the jump. You would be a fool to be with someone if they are automatically disrespecting you.
LMAO@ Comeback! Whew…
I'm sorry… but this internet fued it cracking me up right now. It's the internet people. Let's be nice… PLEASE! It's only Tuesday and people throwing blog fire-spit at one another. Geez
@why so serious- I think you're right. In my serious relationships, some stuff has been put on the table. Like "hey I need help getting my finances together" or "I need help with organizing". I think you're right to some degree when it's serious you gotta get to know that person's "domestic" level.
I concur with Shelia.
@Shelia: Respect is different for each party:
Men: Treat me like a man.
Women: Do what I want you to do and exceed my expectations.
"Omg! Did wikipedia include “text messages”? How’d that get in there?"
Don't give yourself too much credit, if only our relationship survived in cyber space then maybe. But what you fail to realize is SBM had a bleak outlook on women, partly because of the commenting on this blog, and it only took ONE to change his mindset.
Maybe you should try a new approach, with your dynamic lyrical skills and much more positive attitude you could use your talents for good and help to convert the male species as we know it.
You want chilvary, try being nice for a change…I know that's a TALL order, but hey I think you can do it.
Altogether now: IALAC!
I A(m) L(oveable) A(nd) C(apable)
Oh and I appreciate you looking out for me on the "bitch" thing, wouldn't want to give anyone the wrong issue you know.
@Anti-dater-U're so right.
Okay… I'm sorry… I'm hopping in this now…
@SBM's Girlfriend AND ComebackGirl:
As women… the cat fighting in cyber space needs to cease. This is not the place nor is it worth it. You two women are WOMEN. Stop giving the readers a show and kill the back & forth. It's not cute on either end.
Stop attacking each other!
Now back to the topic at hand:
Treat others how you want to be treated. If you need further explanation… refer to the Bible (King James Version).
Thank you and good night!
"@Shelia: Respect is different for each party:
Men: Treat me like a man.
Women: Do what I want you to do and exceed my expectations."
LOL. I can easily flip the words the other way around, so Antidater, on that note, we can agree to disagree.
As Jolie stated–if EVERYONE treated others the way they wanted to be treated I don't think we would even be having this conversation. But then again some people don't have respect for themselves so how do we expect them to respect others.
One thing I noticed has gone unaddressed is the actions of women like the one HNIC spoke about. If I travel to come visit you, make sure your taken care of, treat you well and with respect … but to forget to open one door … does that negate everything else????
Personally, I am young. I am growing and changing. Something are just foreign to me, and some I haven't learned to accept. If you are so exacting and demanding that you are willing to stop talking to me because I forgot to open one door … then kick rocks b*tch is what I say.
So … I ask the women … was this girl justified in her response?
Antidater Chivalry is Bull$h*t. Knights were actually thugs hired to extract money from peasants.
this guy can post once per year and he is still the best poster
99% of the women I have dated in my life were NOT going to be my mate.
In fact, ALL of the american born black women I have gone out on dates with this year not including anyone I am currently dating….. had no intention of marrying me or being my mate. They either wanted sex or just someone to go on dates with. So in theory if I am not going to marry you, I should not be held to your views of chivalry right?
Nobody has yet to answer my two above questions. How can you say we need to be chilvarous if you cant even explain to me what it is and what behaviours it entails. and whats the female version of this cultural phenomena?
If black women are saying black men dont treat them well enough, im gonna laugh my ass off. there is no race of men in this nation who does more for women than we do… thats why we have the highest marriage % dispite being viewed as monsters by this very america.
Your the ones who claim we arent treating you with enough Chivalry yet your the ones with the lowest marriage % dispite your racial paring being the most lovable. what needs to change is how much you respect us (more than you do now) and trust me you will be so in love with the way we make you feel you could give a fuck about if I pull a chair out for you or lay my cape down over a puddle so you dont splash water on your dress and nickers.
What I need to do is start takin this tit for tat.
If a woman treats me nice.. Im gonna treat her more nice than she treats me (which is what I already do) but for every woman who dicks me over im gonna dick the next one over even worse. Woman uses me for sex? I use a woman for diabolical amusement.
see how many hearts I can break in a year based off Female to male interaction and respect. Now THATS a code we can live by.
No it was not justified. All women are not equal and not all will be respectful in return of someone giving them respect. I can't say I would have been pissed and pitched a fit to my friends about him not opening a door… however, for HER it may be a bigger deal or she may be accustomed to having the door opened for her at ALL times during all instances.
I don't think he should stop doing it just because of that one bad instance. Karma.
@SBM-Absolutely not. She should not have bitched him out for that one action. That says that as a woman she does not respect the man around her and his capabilities. I think if a man did all that for me and forgot one door, especially in that instance it's no big deal. I think it's about sitting back, being grounded and having some perspective. She should have been grateful instead of disrespecting him. furthermore, by acting that way, she disrespected herself and gave the rest of us a bad name.
umm i dont think I attacked anyone??? anywhoo.
Shelia again I agree but I think we are on the wrong site talking to the wrong men. They have already decided that its some selfish "skantankerous" women in the world on the take. Secondly dating and courtship are alike but also VERY DIFFERENT. The former is a casual way to determine through some inner work and guidance…WHO AND WHAT YOU REQUIRE. Men and women jump all over the place, which is why they end up courting and marrying "skanks". They lacked the inner reflection and guidance IN DATING.
By the time you get to courtship in my opinion your close to "slowing the party down". That means that multiple people start to get EXCLUDED. But again wrong board wrong conversation.
The idea of dating and courtship is to find that ONE. The ONE means that you are exclusive and going down the path to a long term committment or marriage.
As it relates to being independent and taking care of myself. Sure I can do that. But I have encountered maybe just one or two men IN MY LIFE, that I would really want to give my all too. But chilvary and dating doesn't presuppose that.
There is a lid for every pot. maybe we need to stop thinking that you can make all lids fit your pot.
Ms. Freckles I've said all I have to say. Rest assured it was going to end there.
@Hasani, SBM, Humble, Antidater and other men of this site-I had a conversation last night with a man who told me he found black women to be selfish h*es. Now I asked him why and talked to him for a while and he later informed me that he only felt that way because he thinks we are more like lionesses than little kitties that purr and are sweet. I told him to pray for strength and he decided that he would give black women another chance. So the point is, I am seeing more and more American Black men, who specifically want non-American black woman or a woman of some other race. I've been thinking about this alot and I think alot of the problem is women being bitchy. Furthermore, I think men shouldn't be afraid of us, as I personally like someone to be my rock-a man's man sort of…
Anti: think about it though… alot of sistas wont even treat you like a MAN.
how many times have you seen women on this blog jump down my mouth just because they felt they should "check this nigga"
How about how many times you have seen a sista goin the fuck OFF on a brotha in public.
I had this happen to me with miss alaska, only it wasnt in public it was at a muh fukin SOCIAL EVENT!!
I am 6'2 225, why on gods green earth would you be so blatantly stupid as to talk down to me and get in my face. I could break most of the common 5'5 130lbs womens necks with only using one hand.
So jumping in my face and mushing me with your fingers like your Halle Berry in boomerang is so a sign of what things have become.
FIrst we need to get them to respect our "size" and ability to kill maim or seriously injure them if we were to snap back.
Seccond: we need to get them to start "treating us like MEN"
FInally we need to come to where they regard us as Equals and thinking that our lives together are greater combined than that of their own. And that the black man is a beautiful resource.
"One thing I noticed has gone unaddressed is the actions of women like the one HNIC spoke about. If I travel to come visit you, make sure your taken care of, treat you well and with respect … but to forget to open one door … does that negate everything else????"
No it doesn't, I appreciate actually when a man is WHO HE IS. If he honestly isn't interested in opening my door, then don't. Let me decide who you are. You don't have to put on airs. Im VERY intuitive and I can tell when a man just (oops forgot). I don't walk around with a register titled "CHILVARY CHECKLIST".
But again as Shelia suggested chilvary and courtship just isn't about opening my door. I also want to see consistant AND GOOD behavior in the way he treats others.
If some random unrelated woman was a bytch today…dollars for donuts..when you're mad at me…I'll be that tomorrow.
seriously, you dont think that if we all met it would be comeback jumping in my face and yelling at me like she owns me ? and me sitting there with the sullen look of defeat because im for some reason FEARFUL of a creature half my size and a quarter of my strength?
I think we all know thats exactly what it would be like, and what it is everyday….
@Hasani… sweetheart your size means nothing. Bullets penetrate all sizes! That's not a valid argument. lol
Sorry I did not read all the comments before I posted this… but chivalry is not dead but dying a slow death and it is not to be all blamed on the MEN. When SOME women are so easily:
a. Giving it up
b. Dressing like whores
c. Accepting it
d. doing other things that cause a man to think it's OK to be treated any way but respectable……….. What do you expect?????
If you have a puppy and he pees on the furniture instead of using the doggy door and you do NOTHING, he's gonna keep doing it!!!!!
I cannot complain about chivalry because I get it I'm a great woman with class, so I don't get disrespected. I know how to say please and thank you when someone opens a door for me or pays for lunch. Women, we just have to do better!
This is a sad day.
When I asked SBM to post about this again (not taking the credit for the post) I thought it would provoke some interesting dialouge and maybe assist with a lot of the single folk that post here. Boy was I wrong! It's only causing arguments but hopefully it's opening everyone's eyes to see that we truly do need to treat each other better. I know someone else said this but I don't want to read thru all the drama again to find out who; so sorry for not giving you proper props.
How can we as women and men expect someone to treat us right when we don't respect, honor, and love ourselves? People always say that the people we attract are a reflection of ourselves and in the words of Katt Williams "maybe yo ain't ish stuff is attracting ain't ish men [women]."
I hope no one takes offense to that.
That's all I'm going to say today.
@Hasani-BINGO! How the hell are you supposed to feel like a man in an instance like that? You feel defeated, yet you want to protect the little thing that just went off on you correct?
Again as this has been reierated again and again people shoud treat people the way that they want to be treated. after that then i feel the rest should come naturally.
Why is it the never comes up with white women? I don't talk to a whole lot of them, but I never hear them complaining about doors not being opened, or that there is no chivalry, or all that bullsh*t.
They seem to be a lot more progressive, value the immprtant things more than the stupid minutia that women like Comeback complain, moan, and blog about … and seem to be doing better.
I don't know why that just crossed my mind … but I just don't ever see this argument happening in their community.
SBM, I have to go back and read HNICs entries in order to respond specificially. What it all boils down to and I know I sound like a broken record here but we ALL need to respect one another. When it comes to male and female relationships, folks should not take out what some SPECIFIC person did to them on the next person.
Of course there are specific examples I'm sure we ALL could cite but again, those are specific people and doesn't equate to ALL men and women.
@SBM-I think you're right. But I also think it's because their men have absolutely no choice. White men are some of the sweetest and as Comeback pointed out last week sometimes their game is so tight, you don't even notice it until you're at home then you're like wtf just happened. Furthermore, they do not actively put their men down or make them feel like they are less than so the men are more willing to do things for them. Also i think it goes back to slavery days when the white man saw her as the pillar of their community and the paragon of all virtue. Black women have never had that, because they are so busy being so strong.
Not trying to sound angry but…
IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE! White folks, Mexican folkes, Indian folks, Black folks… all got sh*t with them. Some practice chivalry and some don't.
This is becoming redundant… treat people how you want to be treated.
@Comeback: You have emasculated and ridiculed for months here. First me, then Hasani, and Anti even caught hell a couple times. Why would we think it would be different in real life? Even your phone conversation with your male friend that is featured on your site has you cutting him off and pretty much telling him to shut up. Then you turn around and complain because "guys text you" and run off about how there is no chivalry.
Its that type of attitude and actions that have guys not wanting to be chivalrous to anyone!
Finally … we are starting to reach a middle ground. I am fully on the "treat everyone better" and "respect and love yourself" bandwagon. If everyone just treats everyone better, its not chivalry or bitchiness … its just people living the Godly way.
@Jaclyn: "White men are some of the sweetest…their game is so tight"
That's some oppressionist Bull$hi*t! Self-hatred runs more than skin deep.
Chivalry is stupidity. I beleive in respecting other ppl…but when it comes to this old school notion of chivalry "I doth protest."
Brothas have to work twice as hard to be half as good in the office and thrice as hard to be almost manly enough for sisats. The BS has got to stop. Making brothas bend over backwards while jumping through flaming hoops is ridiculous.
Whew!!! Yall are doing the most again today…and it only took 95 comments to reach a middle ground.
LOL…I didn't read all of the comments, got a headache even thinking about it, but the kumbayah "treat everyone with respect message" has been beaten into the ground on this site. Certain people encourage drama, and until they change the world never will.
@Antidater-No self hatred here. Sometimes I find I am a bigger fan of the black man than he is of himself. In my experiences with white men I had no problem with them. As of this moment I don't have a problem with any black men. I am not trying make anyone bend over backwards or jump through flaming hoops. I just want to love and be loved that is all.
@Teacia-I think treating everyone with respect might count in the real world, but probably not here on the blog. That would be too much like right.
I read all of this with great interest because I am recently embroiled in a situation that is making me examine this very topic. It is interesting that the brothers are complaining about the innate selfishness of women when I am being forced to examine it within myself. I'm not going to get into my deal but suffice it to say this: treat people with respect and dignity, in particular the ones who love you most. Do things for others not out of a sense of obiligation but because it's simply right to do. Sometimes you'll get a thank you and sometimes you won't. But do it because YOU know what you are supposed to do.
*stepping back in to the corner*
Real quick I agree with Nikki Sunshine..she raises some great points, we in essence SHOW men how to TREAT US. I get bashed on here for being a chick's chick…and I'll be one from the craddle to the grave, because I value women: even when they don't quite value themselves.
Which leads me to Given's point about the Golden Rule…that would actually work if people generally had self-respect. This would be illustrated in making better life/partner/relationship choices. But I'll say it one more time: how can we expect for a man to love us, when he doesn't think that highly of himself. The converse is also true.
"They seem to be a lot more progressive, value the immprtant things more than the stupid minutia that women like Comeback complain, moan, and blog about … and seem to be doing better."
I don't think its about race. I know alot of single women across all racial/ethnic lines and we ALL want the same things. I will say that for some reason chilvary/courtship/dating always boils down to a financial statement. And of course we always gonna bring race into a conversation about money. And I don't look at it as complaining. I actually think that my own self discovery is a beautiful thing. I'm not angry about it. I'm not pressed about it.
I'm just working on being the best ME I can be. I just take exception when we intellectualize a D$a#mn door. Its not about A DOOR.
It is about respect. It is about women being nice to other women. It is about US seeing that its not about one man. There are SOOOO many men out here. Its about finding the right one, and not scapegoating other people, places and things…for your own crap. Its about accountability. Its about knowing what your worth and value is. Its about getting the love you want. Its about reciprocity. Its about dating to find well suited potential matches.
its not about a door.
Comeback I just listened to the male spa audio on your page…do you let people know you're recording them and then posting it for our listening pleasure?
It just seems to lack a little journalistic etiquette…now I don't know and I'm not judging but I am curious to know your thoughts and feelings on that.
Why so Serious…I forgot to address this in my comment earlier…(trying not to sway off topic too much)…but when it comes to what you asked — I'll explain in a seperate post about men and women expecting others to act like a wife or husband–when they are not. Finding out how someone cooks or handles finances aren't part of what I was talking about (but again, I'll address it in my house at a later time). 🙂
"Do things for others not out of a sense of obiligation but because it’s simply right to do. Sometimes you’ll get a thank you and sometimes you won’t. But do it because YOU know what you are supposed to do."
I agree Tiffany, in the confines of a marriage. The problem is when this is being done for and to the WRONG MEN. Harriett Tubman was a great historical groundbreaking self-sacraficing figure…but I don't want to be her with a man I'm JUST dating.
Chivalry is dead…Feminism killed it.
This is a great topic, that never seems to die. I wrote a blog about how women are starting to chase men nowadays, and the expectations that are placed upon dudes to go above and beyond. I also just wrote an entry about how women can become better friends their dude or the dude they are chasing. We got a lot of conversation going on about stuff just like this right now. I don't mean to keep pluggin my stuff, but I thought it was relevant to what this entry is about.
That's the entry. Check it out. There's a part 2 for it as well.
Teacia..thanks for listening.. I'll answer that question on my blog.
Thanks to THECOMEBACK GIRL. I am a chick's chick too and just like you, I value them even when they don't value themselves… I believe it's so beautiful to see strong sistas UPLIFTING each other instead of hating each other. Until we do this, how can we expect our men to respect us?
I don't know why, I feel like this needs to be said, but NO HOMO…Somebody on here will try to make my words something they are not.
Ok, i'll be on the look out for the response.
Slim I read your blog a few days back…guess you gotta change the black swimmer's thing now that we got a medal…and it's soooo shiny and purty…and it's GOLD!!! I meant to come over and give you a shout out about that, but I've been extremely busy lately and my mind has gone bad.
TheComebackGirl, folks do have to respect themselves before they can start respecting others.
If a person allows another person to mistreat them consistently they will eventually start buying into the nonsense and will accept disrespectful actions as if they are normal.
SlimJackson I'll go check out your post here in a minute.
Thank you Comeback and Nicki for shining rays of feminazism on all of us.
Why o why does it seem like a woman needs to hate men to love herself?
Thanks Nicki..totally agree. I've been singing the same tune since this blog's inception. You'll see sometimes it doesn't go over very easy.
Teacia…he's actually my first podcast guest. I Appreciate the listen and the interest.
"Why o why does it seem like a woman needs to hate men to love herself?"
Where did you get that from??? Thats actually rather funny because I think Im very traditional even given my background. Women need men and Men need women. But my question has always been "at what expense"? I know a few great marriages but I also know some "skanktankerous" ones too.
At this point in my life he's gotta come with more than talks about his big pe%ni$s, how he can satisfy me in the bedroom, and how cute I look (after he's had a little henney). And I joke about inseams and sinks and making pies from sratch. But I'm looking for something deeper. To me ALOT of women are cute, alot of women can burn, alot of women know how to feng shui some stuff.
but I'm looking for a man whose ON PURPOSE. I don't really care how much he makes. Because to me to like minded ON PURPOSE people can take over a small country.
again the problem is many men (and a few thirsty women) think they can be EVERYBODY's all. By me being the best pot I can be ENSURES that he is working on his lid too.
its not rocket science really.
“Why o why does it seem like a woman needs to hate men to love herself?”
I don't hate men at all… I've just have yet to find one who can love me like I need to be loved.. I don't think what I need is too much to ask for.
I want someone to get up and cook me breakfast/dinner/ whatever just like I do it for him… because HELL, we both work. And if he wants me to cook all the time, then he needs to do his "manly duties" and take care of ALL THE FINANCES. I'm talking about no worries.
I need to feel appreciated, I don't need compliments 24/7 because I'm a damn fine woman and I know it (HA!) but just as he needs to be built up, so do I. I'm not going to go into all my needs and wants because I'm getting off topics, but what I'm trying to say is… I love my brothas…. I just need them to love me too (i.e. not cheating, go out with me and not always with "the boys", WHATEVER!)
"its not rocket science really"
…But it takes lots of coding, calculating and a PhD from Caltech. What is "satisfaction"? A great book, Predictably Irrational, talks about how expectations, emotions, bias, etc. cloud people's decision-making ability. One example the author gave was that expectations strongly affect your perception of events. If you expect Ritz Carlton service while staying at Motel 6 you will be highly upset. I think the problem is when women expect service twice as good as the Ritz Carlton level even if they are already at a 5 star resort.
In plain language, you want a man to throw it down in the bed, but that's not enough.
You want a man to make money and not have a problem with you making it,too – but that's not enough.
You want a man who's On Purpose, but that's not enough.
You want a man to be chivalrous, but that's not enough.
This logic begs the question: "What is enough?"
And I'm sorry, that word "feminism" is just so negative to me. It makes me think of big burly women out burning bras, which I am not. I'm not a feminist, I'm an Everybody-ist (if you will). I think you may have taken me and TheComeback Girl's champion of being "a Girl's Girl" totally out of context.
@SBM's lady: Post #54 . . . wow!! I think you're the only person who has (since my time on this blog) pointed out the holes in Comeback's arguments besides HNIC. I thought they would get into it mostly because of him and his views, but now I wonder.
@Comeback: I'm not taking a personal shot at you, but with all that SBM's lady said, it kinda makes things a bit more lucid when it comes to what you say and your tenets on a myriad of these issues on this site. I really thought the source of contention was something personal between you and HNIC, but I guess I was wrong.
Am I the only one who noticed this???
"I think you may have taken me and TheComeback Girl’s champion of being “a Girl’s Girl” totally out of context"
I think you need to stick around Nicki. This is usually how it goes. I'm conflicted with feminisim. I spent 4 years with it forced down my throat, so much so most of my women's studies professors HATED to see me in their class. Cause I had questions. Lots and lots of questions esp. when we got on race & gender. I was told over and over and cited contemporary text about how I was a "woman first" and civil rights could have gotten farther if I had of "sided with my gender"…He%l to the He$ll NAWL.
I'm black all day and FIRST.
So Yeah…me and feminism have a few bones to pick….I digress…LOL
Anti…I think part of the problem is we as men and women don't READ and LISTEN to what the other is saying. I said that I JUST don't need all that extra stuff…and you turn it around to mean…its not enough.
Perhaps you will understand this better: A man having a VISION and being on PURPOSE and well ALIGNED wiht me TRUMPS a pen$is and my vajay jay…and any great trysts we might could have.
is that plain enough for you?
I don't understand why this topic is getting so much buzz. It's really simple . . . if we, men and women alike, just treat each other with resepect, BE HONEST about our intentions, don't try to get over on the other, and do nice things for the person if you care enough about them to do so, we will get along fine and would completely circumvent this redundant arse topic. Everybody just keeps repeating the same stuff over and over using different words. It's like ya'll are up on here filibustering about this mess. Geez . . .
Thanks girl… I'm lovin the dialogue! HA!
Wow, "sided with your gender???" What if some of the women are just stupid????!!! I'm sorry, but I'm NOT with them. HA! I have cut off QUITE A FEW women for what I call "stupid behavior." Mind you, I stick around for a bit and try to help, but if you're on a roller coaster to DUMBland, I'm getting off the ride!!!!
Back to the problem at hand, (AHEM)… Maybe a definition of a "girl's girl" will help: A STRONG woman who knows and recognizes another STRONG woman.
Okay, that's as far as I got… It's so hard to be intellectual at work. :*)
"Thanks girl… I’m lovin the dialogue! HA"
Me too. They are all great topics with a lot of varied perspectives and intricacies. I mean we've brought in the definitions of chilvary, the concepts of dating and courtship, feminism, race, economics, relative expectations, self image and self-reflection. Its all important stuff, at least to me.
"HA! I have cut off QUITE A FEW women for what I call “stupid behavior.” Mind you, I stick around for a bit and try to help, but if you’re on a roller coaster to DUMBland"
I'm fascinated even by the stupid shy%t….Im over here tryna to pontificate the agendas over a dam$n protocol analyzer and 0's and 1's…NOW THAT DON"T WORK.
LOL ..let me get off of here.
Renegade I'm in total agreeance about EVERYTHING…I've been amazed lately at how far off topic we vere these days while completely remaining on topic…but not really…and while never really solving a thing.
I don't even comment anymore…waiting for everyone to join me over here in Sanityville or at my summer home on Reality Ranch…it gets pretty damn lonely over here these days. *sighing*
Alot of the men in NYC have NO manners. They run to cut you off and get ahead of you on the bus line. Will act like the NY Times is so damn interesting while you have 5/6 packages in your hands trying to hold on the bar for dear life with your elbows and not even glance in your direction. I even had one dude throw his briefcase on a seat to slow me down because we both were headed for it at the same time. Mind you it bruised my leg. When I do find a man that is chivalrous I count my lucky stars. I hate when I see 2 men with their legs open so wide on the 3-seater. I crash right down in the middle and ask them for space.
@Comeback: I don't know about your definition of courting. Did you happen to notice the comment about Wikipedia stating that sending "text messages" was a part of courting? 😉
sho did and its a GLARING error…somebody needs to go over there an correct that wiki.
Why don't you start Feminazi's Wiki for Mini-p*nis Wielding Women who Date Men? I think your definition may fit perfectly there.
Why don't you get yours going first: "whiny men (with one track minds) who feel slighted by the notion of chilvary perhaps cause they'd like their car door opened and chair pulled out too."
and i'll just link to you.
I thought Wiki was created by the people and isn't necessarily an accurate account of a meaning or definition…correct me if I'm wrong but I could have sworn a professor or someone said that?!?!?…oh no wait it was the site!
@Teacia-Yep Wikis are added to by people, but there is some degree of moderation on them.
This is getting ridiculous. Can we all just agree to disagree? I mean seriously, it's not the worst thing in the world. Some of us are just on different sides of the fence about the issue. No need to personally attack anyone.
@Jaclyn: You are 100% right. I am laying down my sword…for the moment.
@Teacia: The Encyclopedia Britannica is a compilation of annually updated definitions and descriptions that have been vetted and approved by scholars. Wikis have reduced the lead time for vetting and approving. I've heard scholars say that Wikipedia is actually more accurate than an encyclopedia.
@Antidater-Thank you. I am trying to rest over here…and you guys are making too much noise lol.
And I have been doing much too much work in the academic world and I find that when I Wikipedia then look for actual sources it works better. 😉
well anti and sbm…at least I can say that yall been defending "no chilvary" for A LONG time. I had to go back to the "ringy dingy post" in Feb when it was cold as hell out side.
@Comeback: Not really. Chivalry in general is ok…just not you're twisted Heath Ledger's Joker version.
I like everybody's RESPECT recipe…but your brand of chivalry sounds like the guy does all the work while you sit, look pretty, and do nothing. Therein lies the problem…
Man Anti you don't play huh…did you take the day off from conquering the world…you haven't commented this much since you started your corp. a few months back.
Yeah…I know. I am taking a one day break from my venture. Diversity of thought induces creativity.
Being a "strong" woman and a "combative" woman are two VERY different things. There's a thin line….
it seems that everything having to do with the interaction between males and females is a competition. "i won't do this because he didn' t do this." or "she didn't give me blank, so I'm not buying her blank" "if it satisfies my partner, then I MUST have given up some power some way"
Truthfully, I'm tired of it. Can't we get over ourselves?
What ever happened to cooperation? @HNIC i read that post where Godmother splits the pizza with Godfather. That made my week. If people thought more about what they can SHARE with each other as opposed to what they can GET from each other, chivalry wouldn't even be a question.
I'm dropping all guards, preconceived notions, entitlements, and expectations of women [Not core values…im not a sucker hahaha] I hope I attract a woman who has done the same.
why. so. SERIOUS!!??!
"Diversity of thought induces creativity"
….i am sooooo stealing that one Anti…i'm a sucker for a good one liner!
@Why So Serious?: Why are we so selfish? At this point in the convo – we can surely look to Society. What do we see on television, billboards, and the silver screen? We see an "all eyes on me" society.
Moreover, we are being "trained" not to trust anyone. The media drives home the point that everyone is a potential hacker, thief, or rapist on the 5 o'clock news. People take this messages home and say "I can't trust anybody so I bettter look out for No. 1"
"@Why So Serious?: Why are we so selfish? At this point in the convo – we can surely look to Society. What do we see on television, billboards, and the silver screen? We see an “all eyes on me” society."
I hate to get all clinical psych on yall, but the way in which we decide who it is that we want and need is by developing a sense of HEALTHY selfishness. I don't think there is anything wrong with neither a man or a woman exhibiting **SOME** forms of "me first" particularly as a SINGLE person. And tv didn't make people "self centered" …our country's founding principle's are based on autonomy. Maslow talks about being "self-actualized" that is only produced THROUGH BEING SELFISH.
That has nothing to do with sharing my pizza with my guy friends. Its exhibited in what Belle writes. Men get on the train and they knock another WOMAN over to beat her first. I've seen women in distress (actually re: a man) surrounded by TONS OF MEN. And women come to her aid.
I won't even get into women raising men (and through seeking to protect them from outside forces) crippling them when it comes to raising them to be a good dad and husband.
Finally and more importanly, people aren't being critical about what they want in a mate long term. Some men pretend that every woman they s$x is their "wifey". Look at how black pop culture throws that word around. Men get "wifey's" like they change their underwear.
…let me get off of here. cause then I'll be working to 2 am.
"Some men pretend that every woman they s$x is their “wifey”. Look at how black pop culture throws that word around. Men get “wifey’s” like they change their underwear."
and to Nicki's point…its because we LET yall. Women set the standard in relationships, I agree with this with all my heart. So perhaps it really does speak just as much to our collective skantakerousness as it does to your inability to "just trust dem ho#ez".
Coomeback you actually uhhhhh work…get outta here! Yeah, uh huh, right, she did what, get outta here…i told you that bitch was crazy…lol.
Oh sorry, but "get outta here" had Chris Rock ringing in my head..and I couldn't resist.
question for the women. I agree that you treat others how you want to be treated. But how about when you treat someone nice and special and they thank you for doing your job. How would the women feel if they gave a man a gift for his birthday and he said thank you, but its my birthday you are suppose to buy me a gift.
question for the women. I agree that you treat others how you want to be treated. But how about when you treat someone nice and special and they say thank you for doing your job. How would the women feel if they gave a man a gift for his birthday and he said thank you, but its my birthday you are suppose to buy me a gift.
@Comeback: Let me get this one straight:
1) Selfishness is good
2) Women should be self-actualized (read: focused on self)
3) But men should be Chivalrous !=(not equal) selfish
Wow. What a great hustle – for women.
On Maslow's Hiearchy of Needs: I would say that Mother Teresa was a self-actualized human being…she wasn't the selfish type, though. Ya know?
@Humble-Although I know I am supposed to, I would be like wow…My job? When I think of job, I think there's some payment for the work being put in. Therefore, if you tell a man or woman, "thanks for doing your job" well shouldn't you then turn around and give them money or d!ck or something? I mean I think of it as more of a duty…something which you are supposed to do, but not for recognition but because you want that person to feel special.
@Antidater-What I get from that is women should be for themselves and men should be for them…so whose for the man?
ANTI –please go into PR (damage control or deflection), because I didnt say that.
which gets into some spiritual components…that people only hear/read/see what they are READY TO HEAR/READ/SEE. I said true sense of selfishness on both sides, helps to foster what it is that people find to be ideal in a mate.
I also said stuff about the concept of a wife and mate in hip-hop…needed to be further examined and debated to help us better dialouge with oneanother.
but I guess you didn't read that either.
What a vicious cycle, the man today doesn't provide for his family and the woman today doesn't cook and clean for her family….thus the man doesn't see a need to be chilvarous, yet the woman works hard, provides for herself and her family and shouldn't feel the need to be treated like a princess? Come on now! The roles of a man and woman in a relationship have changed, so who's going to put an end to this?
@West-For some, for the men here in this blog, they are good men who want to do the right thing. I have no doubt that any of them would provide for the homes and families, however, she should not sit there constantly telling him what she deserves/needs/wants. I think she needs to let the man do it on his own, because other than that men have to start hearing how they're not thoughtful.
@Comeback: You just recently said everyone needs to be selfish for themselves. But how can I be selfish and chivalrous … that doesn't make sense.
Anti pointed this out and you claim he cannot read (another instance of you insulting and demeaning because your just wrong and can't logically defend yourself).
Please address the accusation because I am personally confused how I am to be selfish and chivalrous!
SBM, I called up my cougar and asked her about chivalry.
She says "its adorable" I ask her as an older hot white woman who dates younger black men does she find that chivalry is an issue.
She cuts me off and says "the angry black women on your blog again huh" "remind them there is a reason I date so many black professional men"
She also wanted to point out that the angry black woman DOSENT WANT a guy who is nice to her anyway. So the issue is prob more "what can I get out of a guy" since we all know they will settle on a guy who is slightly elusive.
hell thats an older white woman sayin that and she makes more sense than all of us. She dosent date black men because of the big dick, she says she dates us because we are far more respectful and charming than white men, since white men think they own the world.
She said she wants to URL to the blog, but I think that coould be quite dangerous
So why do white women think we are great but black women think we are below average and should have to work harder to win their affections?
@Jaclynn: I swear if someone in particular didn't read this site I would try and move you up to DC.
And its funny from one of the younger people we find some of the most wisdom.
Women telling/complaining/begging about their needs and wants in an unhealthy and anti-constructive manner (like Comeback does) gives these women a negative light and does nothing but hurt relations between men and women.
I'm glad I stopped meeting Comebacks in my life because I would be one mean and bitter asshole!
@Hasani-I don't think it should be what can you do for me, but rather, what can we do for each other? Furthermore, I just think if you're a professional black man with reasonable stats and you're nice to me I can give you a chance.
I mean really…can't we all just get along? Can't we realize that if we just think of ourselves as a two person team we'd be
@SBM-*chuckling* don't get either one of us in trouble.
@HNIC: Man … you got me fired up again … but in a good way.
I'm not gonna go out on the limb and say that white women are more appreciative then black men, but I have experienced this same thing.
When in Seattle at an internship, we used to hit the mixed clubs out there (thats all there really was in seattle when your under 21). Me and my other black friends would notice how much white women loved us, but every sister in there looked like they despised us. They would be elusive, hard to track down, not open to talking, and all that stupid BS I have learned to accept as a Black Men. The white women were damn near tripping over each other to get at us.
Call it novelty, call it "I wonder if he has a big d*ck" syndrome, call it whatever you want … but we all got out vanilla chocolate swirl on that summer … because we had to!
@SBM – she is the youngest and comes with the most wisdom on this topic. Some of the responses to this thread explains why I don't deal with the type of women I listed in previous topics.
Most dudes that are about something are running away from women that believe in this one-way B.S. like they have the black-plague.
@SBM-I love it. I know if you met a white girl in a club she was shoes off, mascara running, smelt of alcohol and telling you she loved you. I just love when they do that…and having known quite a few they love, love, love to talk to black men @ clubs because you are charming, etc. Maybe if us sistas took our hair down some and stopped being uppity do you think it might work for us?
@Humble-Damned the black plague…oooh black women have got to do better.
Wanna talk about chivalry?
go to comebackgirls blog and listen to her constantly cut this man off when they are having a conversation.
to make it even worse the guy sounds a bit older than her which you would think would afford him a bit more respect? WRONG!
And guess what? This is what my last conversation with comeback was like. disrespectful and haughty.
I could fuckin flatten comeback with a single flick of my wrist yet I am supposed to cower in fear of her as she treats me like this… and them I am supposed to run and open her door as well?
she makes three times the american HOUSEHOLD average salary….. but for some reason I am supposed to buy her dinner? buy her Prada sunglasses?
I should respect a woman more than she respects me, how is this fair?
Next time someone says Im a cancer, or my type is whats wrong with this blog and I am too "disrespectful" of "all black women" Im totally going to link to her badgering this poor brotha.
Like I said, you need to start respecting our size and then start respecting us as men. you look like scrappy doo yelling at someoen twice your size like they are half you size.
Me thinks black women should treat black men like the black men treat the black women…. or else the black men will start treating the black women like the black women treat the black man.
would the black women want that?
@SBM – Maybe it is a regional thing. I have family in Toronto and when I have gone to visit I noticed similar behavior. Maybe you could do a topic on regional differences in men and women? That's if it hasn't been done yet.
@Hasani-I for one would not. Now that's another thing. I try to, if at all possible, avoid too much confrontation with a man, I am by no means a small girl but I don't have enough strength to go up against any of the men in this blog. And if men were to yell at us, or even make us feel threatened as we likely do to you, we would probably call the police and say this negro is out of control take him out of my house, when a black woman will turn around and look like a snake about to bite if you make one wrong move. Yep, we gotta change.
I dont really know what to say. I think it goes back to the inspired insight I got a couple of hours ago. The back and forth isn't constructive when both sides aren't being heard.
I am taking in the man's perspective, but again I read with my other eye. So what I see working below the surface is multilayered. Generally you have some men who CAN'T do chilvary they can't do courtship. And I've already covered the emotional and financial costs (particularly when you have a roster). Withstanding men who are fully disclosing of their intentions (be it to JUST fyck and or build something), I understand that he may be reluctant to court just because of the mere connotation (albiet that courting can be very cheap) and what it implies to the outside world (simp).
Exploring your wants and needs IN A DATING situation. Trialing the person. Taking the person off the list…is a "selfish" proposition. As it should be, why would you go forward at the detriment of your own "advantage, pleasure, or well-being" (definition of SELFISH). And the other person should be looking out too. So he/she just made a selfish decision to leave…that means I can get me the best person for me.
I understand both sides…but I'm looking at it from a very multi-layered perspective.
But hey…nothing was ever sexy about doing inner work..not when you can get a "wifey" just by listening to a song and going to a club and buying her a drink.
btw…where are the hip hop songs about husbands, even in jest…never heard of "husbandy".
Ok, ok. I think we got the point across. Let's not make it "team up on Comeback day".
I spoke too soon…
@antidater: I agree
@humble_one: he did a regional women post.. although it didnt include the west coast
@Humble: Its been done …
I agree. Why should I do all this stuff to make you feel good and you don't respect me. If some women think a man is solely put here to meet their needs and make them happy they deeper emotional problems they need to solve. I have personal experience with these type of women. Not only did I date them but I was in a 5 year relationship with one.
thanks Jolie and Anti (I think???)
just like in science, concepts are tested, ridiculed, sought to be proven wrong and then finally accepted.
There's ALOT of controversy going on right now with the biology of belief and how thought impacts the body on a cellular and molecular level….and people are starting to pay attention.
..so I'll wait. And prove it FIRST with myself.
So, i've been sleeping and reading and i dont know if anything has been resolved, yes we got the general point of "everybody needs to treat everyone else better" but all in all i dont know if thats gonna happen and its up to us to treat the people in our world better and maybe that will be the spark that changes something in someone else and so on and so forth. all i know is that my father always said you have to let a man be a man and to my knowledge when i let that happen my expectations are exceeded, men dont need to be expected to do, they need to space to do what (if you're dealing with a good man in the first place) comes natrual to them, being a respectful man…
@SBM & Jolie
Damn I missed that. I wonder what other good topics I missed
@Comeback: I swear sometimes the way you talk tries to sounds really reall intellectual … but I think you trip over your own words way too much. I can't help but feel you didn't need "multi-layered" and I can't help but feel you overuse all caps when bold migh tbe more appropriate.
You remind me just a little at times of the guy on "In Living Color" who was in jail and had like a hooked on phonics book.
I don't say this to be mean, but I just have no idea where you were trying to go with comment #158. I made mention of selfishness and chivalry, and somehow you started talking about managing a team and being upfront with "intent".
Ok this is totally off topic but I got 2 females in my bathroom shanking the drain in the tub in my room, I am so not gay but thats the sexiest shit I have ever seen? A female fixing shit is the ultimate. Made me wonder why when I called maintenance I was thinking I would get a man, talk about progression.
and they did fix the shit!!
ok carry on….
Jaclyn too few and too far inbetween. for every black woman who says she wouldnt yell at a brotha like he is not twice her size there are twenty that will.
ive said it a thousand times, this blog is a microcosim of our society. look how many times someone goes off on me .
chivalry …are people still using that word. Men aren't raised the same as well as women. Generations ago a good man or woman wouldn't be the oddest thing. I'm the cooker in my group of friends and I know how to treat a man. But why is that? Because my mother taught me how to treat a man. But my daddy was a damn good example of a man who deserved all the things we did for him. As a matter of fact. he is such a good man I feel like he was cheated in life I feel like he deserved even more.
How will you know how to treat a woman or a man if you are not taught these things. I'm sure if you're mother had instilled these things you would treat every woman with chivalry weather you thought she deserved it or not.
Why do people wait to see what the other person is going to do before they do something nice? When I was married my husband didn't understand how I was so young but knew how to cook and gave his mother mad competition. He couldn't understand why all his homeboys wanted to be at his house instead of hanging out…he just couldn't wrap his mind around the fact that his clothes were washed and pressed for him everyday…..and his tie's…I tied those……
I can't believe women even expect that from men these days…..that's funny.
"all i know is that my father always said you have to let a man be a man and to my knowledge when i let that happen my expectations are exceeded, men dont need to be expected to do, they need to space to do what (if you’re dealing with a good man in the first place) comes natrual to them, being a respectful man…"
This is true and is basically how i feel. If you are dealing with a real dude he is going to above and beyond for you. But if you come with an attitude like "u better do this" and "i deserve this because I breathe" then no man wants to deal with you. Unless he is a simp or trick. And those dudes do all those things to pacify you to cover the dirt they do.
notice we had a conversation a few blog post back about how sistas dont want to cook for a man…..
isnt that the females role?
I have never dated a woman who could cook IN MY LIFE up here in the NYC area. Until I started with Miss Alaska that is. And I had to fill her angry black ass out like an application before she started cooking!!!
Women hold men to another set of standards than men hold women. We need to start treating them worse….. but I guess its easier to just treat them the same and hope they get better.
I want to live with comebackgirl for FOUR MONTHS…. I swear to ALLAH and Gabriel that I will change her perspective on how black love can be and how she treats men. it would be like that movie sweet november… and it would also be one hell of a comedy skit
"HassI & Tiffy: Beauty and the beast " starts this fall only on the WB!
@Hasani-I in no way, shape or form ever intend to disrespect a man. Sometimes it can happen, but I would never challenge them in such a way to emasculate them. I'm so over that. I cannot to argue. I do hope you don't think I am attacking you because that's not my intent, only to inform you of when you have hurt my feelings, etc.
Sigh…. written by my master
me Sir do you belive in chivalry
"" I do belive in chivalry, because even though many things have changed we still have an identity as men that must never be surrendered "" -acereporter73
I dont agree but I respect his words.
for more words and views of a smarter black man check out his blog http://dailytmi.blogspot.com/
@HNIC i just move from the DMV up here in the NY area and none of my friends here cook. I cook, real well mind you, and i do it for everyone, i dont need a reason to cook for anyone if i'm making food and someone's hungry they can come over lol. but alot of my friends up here dont like cooking for their men or in general and it puzzles me…
@Given – I think it might be a up north thing because the majority of women can't or don't cook here in Detroit too.
why is that? like it really facinates me i was taught that cooking is a way to get a man. Not that i do it for that but i mean its a great stress reliever and hell i've gotten semi- serious marriage proposals just by doing that lol and its just something i think everyone male and female should be able to do for themselves
@the cooking topic :: I think some women are just lazy and need to learn how to cook. ALL WOMEN should KNOW how to cook a good meal. At least 2 or 3 … PMO when women say they cant cook!
***deleted to keep the peace*** some people get rather emotional over the truth as seen earlier today.
SBM i'll give you 167 k.
Given/Jolie, when it comes to cooking I think it must be the upbringing too. I only have a few friends that can't cook. Growing up cooking and cleaning are things that are taught and when you get older it's just natural.
What the hell are you folks talking about…I leave to go and pick my car up from the police impound and this is what I come back to…man I can't leave for a minute!
@ cooking…I agree it is like a feather in your hat, ammo in your arsenal…but like anything else I'm not leashing that out on anybody and everybody. Some men you can't get rid of even after making them a turkey sandwich…so there is no way in HE#LL I'm breaking out good cookware for any old joe.
IF he makes it to my house ..he's worth cooking for. If he's struggling cooking in his own kitchen i'll teachhimhowtocook (musiq should write a song about it…lmao)
I just read SBM's post about women in different area codes. Yaw (yes, I used that phrase!) need to try Mid west (i.e. Kentucky— MOST of us refer to ourselves as being southern! )… HA! I'm not going to act like we don't have our fair share of hood rats, but I know A LOT of beautiful, fabulous women!!!!!
I don't understand why some women don't. I mean I can't cook but I can make a few dishes. I've met women that can't make rice or cream of wheat.
I think my mother may have been right when she suggested I date black women from other countries. I think I might throw southern women in there too.
@ SBM, I know what you're saying brother, I can't read all these 9823982342 comments and keep my sanity, but I agree, the end.
@Humble_one, I don't think Southern women are necessarily the way to go either, they are forgetting how to cook too, trust me! Sex and the City has RUINED, all women, they all want to be Carrie, in a best case scenario, and in the worst, they are acting like Samantha. I do know how to cook, I can throw down in fact, but I always thought I was cooking for young ladies as a way to get them over to the crib, stuff them full of libations, and get the party started right. Until I discovered that part of the reason it was so easy, was because they wanted a home cooked meal their damn selves, and didn't know how to make it.
I dated a girl that didn't know how to cook chicken…chicken!, and she was black! I thought they taught how to cook that in Birth Canal 101 and that we were born knowing how to batter up some chicken and soak it in hot ass grease. Le sigh
@Junior-I resent that. I can cook but I choose not to lol…especially if it's just me, but if it's for a good man, I'll even bake 😉 Southern born and bred…no pun intended…
see jaclyn thats a common mentality. Women who dont want to do something as small as cook, yet everyone wants chivalry (which is another form of slavery)
I agree with juniour. Sex in the city ruined dating. Black women on this blog fukin KILL ME like im some kinda slut for havin been on so many dates. I think the reason I have been on so many dates is more the women and the mentality up here in the North jersey/ Manhattan climate….. that and how much money I was making.
Ive had so many women who just use me for a certain task…. men are like shoes, you try them on look pretty with them, then put them back in the closet.
You dont respect them or adore them, they are just a part of your life.
Notice a brotha will say "I want a nice woman to marry" but every sista on this blog had a laundry list of things about a man she would only date?
Women are now viewing men as a stat… or a quota that can be filled, and not as a necissity for life.
Look how many times certain types bring up their pedigree, or how much money they make when talking about why they are happy being single?
we are not viewed as important….. thats why there really shouldnt be chivalry.
@Hasani-Babe, I'm not saying I won't cook. I am saying that when it's just me I don't see a need. However, when it's a good guy there I definitely make sure he's in a clean environment and fed well. Remember when I had that situation last month? He never came home to a dirty house, or no food. Even if it was the middle of the day. There was not one instant where he had to hear the dishwasher running or the dryer (unless he was giving me a break) I feel that's my duty as a woman, especially one who didn't have anything to do but shop all day.
FOrget a woman who dosent know how to cook… I run into pleanty of those type of black women up here… the ones that astound me are the ones who could but choose not to.
I must admit, Miss Alaska is the most difficult B!tch I ever delt with in my life and wrote the book on bein an angry black woman, I have so many other options of women I can "spent time" with……
But Between the sex and the cooking I keep giving this thing extra life. I mean… she woke me up in the middle of my sleep and told me to come over and fix her sink….. and you know I actually DID that shit? Imagine a man callin a woman at 3am to come over and cook for him? they would have a fukin fit.
So why am I supposed to do the chivalry thing for every woman I meet, yet yall wont even cook for a man your dating. Why cant we bring over our laundry for you to do on the 2nd date?
I'm surprised you even did that. i mean i'm realzing now that i dont want chivalry because i'm a woman i want it because i'm holding up my end of the bargin and also i cook for the men i date, though that never makes them want to stick around,they dont know a good thing when they have it
@Hasani-If you called me @ 3am to cook, I'd be like okay, look out for me, but could I have some Vitamin D in my life about 3:30? 😉 Lol…no but anyways, I think balance is necessary, I do for you and you do for me. In other words, we're a team. As long as my man is happy, I'm cool. Feed, f*ck and shut up isn't that right? Yeah well, I can do that it means I'm eating, I'm cumming and we ain't arguing. Whew…
I don't know what's funnier – The Kings of Comedy DVD I'm watching or HNIC's comments that seem to try to group ALL women. Newsflash – We are not ALL alike.
Also can someone name some Black women who are "sex in the city" clones? I don't know any but maybe my group of friends are unique.
" Feed, f*ck and shut up isn't that right? Yeah well, I can do that it means I'm eating, I'm cumming and we ain't arguing. Whew…"
Vitamin D isnt really needed as much at night Jaclyn. You really get enough just from exposure to sunlight everyday and it dosent help mood, hair, and skin development as much as they claim.
Shelia I dont care if I group all women in 1 lump. everytime I say angry black woman (who are not the same as black women) you guys just lump yourselves in anyway so Im gonna stop trying to seperate you two. Real women that know me know I dont group the two.
and as far as black SITC clones… ummm OMOROSA… helloooo.
go down the list of sistas from Black planet and Match.com that I have dated
Hasani, the thing is I don't know you and from your responses I know you don't know me.
Okay, the women you have dated are specific enough to your world. Omarosa, well she's her own category…still no SITC clone though but her dramatic actions does warrant her own sitcom…LOL
@Hasani-By Vitamin D I meant d!ck.
OH that was actually a funny post once you translated what you mean by vitamin D. Im not exactly the brightest cookie in the shed……………..
Shelia you dont have to be an exact clone of the charachters from the show, its the mentality. Like comeback is what we would call infected with "the fabulous." which is the SITC mentality/lifestyle. its not a litteral translation of the show its what it has become as a liftstyle, especially up here.
But seriously, if you would have told me in 1990 that when I grew up my major complaint would be that women would use me just for sex or pleasure….. I would think your crazy and I couldnt wait for it to start. But this use men mentality is so fukin widespread its killin me, and its killin alot of us brothas here in the 30's dating scene.
Wow…you guys are a whole lot of things. That is all.
Chivalry is not dead dammit!
Pussy or no pussy…there are men out there.
I can list 2 men…ok, so what if the list is short but it's a list!
After reading some of the comments, I had to go back and reread the post again. So is all this back and forth just about chivalry? Don't think so, it turned into a referendum on how black men & black women treat each other and who deserves what.
To answer the initial question, chivalry is expected and is attractive to women in the same way a man is attracted to a woman who is physically taking care of herself…basically is a part of list that a woman wants for man she is interested in the same way men have a list of things that they want in a woman (whether it is the being of a relationship or a ongoing situation…some of those requirements were mentioned here…her list: chivalry, a man being able to provide, so on…his list: attractiveness, sex, cooking, cleaning, "niceness").
Regarding a few comments: If "Sex in the City ruined women", then hip-hop music videos (Nelly's Tip Drill for example) ruined black men.
"Women have it twisted it they think their p*ssy is special". For the men who have that opinion, let me know if you feel the same way as you watch your daughters growing up. (And many of you call women hoes and treat them like sh*t when they DON'T treat their p*ssy as if it special, i.e. giving it to whoever wants it). From being raised that way, to the bible, and in general, a women's emotional makeup…it is (or should be) important. In general (I can't say that enough because man and women is not identical or every situation is the same), sex/love/the vagina are very emotionally connected to a women (or will become quickly when involved).
"Mature women want sex as much as men", i.e. sex means the same thing to men as it does to women . In general, it does not, as mentioned above. If a male reaches his sexual peak at 19, let's say he thinks about sex, 500 times a day, and when he is 35, it decreases by 80% and he thinks about/wants sex 100 times a day. A women at 19 thinks about/wants sex 3 times a day and when she reaches her sexually peak at 35, her sex drive is quadrupled and she thinks about/wants sex 12 times a day. Although, the numbers are not correct, anyone familiar with sex studies/surveys knows that the difference in sex drive/wanting sex is dramatic between men and women.
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