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Its My Perrogative: Let a man want what he wants!

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I can do what you wanna do!

My homie Midtown Mo and I had this discussion the other day, which prompted me to write this blog. We wanted to get to the bottom of a question he had concerning women. It seems like women in the last few weeks were criticizing him for his tastes in women. After I heard his ordeal, I asked to be the vessel by which to deliver this digital ether. So without further adieu, I present a look at the question of the day:

Why is it that women get upset at men’s preference?

I’ve found that most black women get angry, even offended, if a man has what I’ll call a “Mainstream Preference” in women.

You know what I mean so stop looking confused!

Whenever a man states that he prefers “light skin/long haired” women, females will go Desert Storm on a brother and treat us like insurgents! Of course, if the women fits the description then it’s all good. I understand the whole concept of “lighter is better’ that gets shoved down our throats both subliminally and upfront in all types of media, and that’s wrong. However, why should a man get chastised for what he likes if he’s genuinely interested and attracted to those characteristics?

This extends beyond the physical also. I’ve heard women who declare that if a man doesn’t have an advanced degree, 6 figures, and 4 horses (whip game proper for the slow), he’s NOT for her.

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If he lives with the family for whatever reason, they just say no!

If he can’t cook, then he can’t get the buns (what I did there, did you see it?).

I find some of these preferences to be superficial at times, but rather than waste my time chastising a woman who has this stance, I would chuck the deuces and find someone more in line with my mission statement. It seems simple to me, but women tend to dwell on a man’s personal preference when walking away would make much more sense.

Then there’s a subset of the preference of date vs. marry. I remember having a big conversation with some of my Latina friends regarding this topic. As we know, the light skin / dark skin struggle is extremely prevalent in Latin American countries, and they echo the sisters sentiments. they even took it a step further. They felt that black men would want to date (re: thronx) a Latina, but they would end up marrying a black woman. So they question not only a man’s preference, but their ultimate endgame! I had no clue how they derived this theory, because I know many brothers who’ve married/had long lasting relationships with Latina women, so why would they feel like we would “use” them for nothing more than to fulfill a fantasy? I don’t mean to get into the interracial dating topic, but it’s more about women in general and their perceptions about men’s preference. As you can see, some topics do intersect.

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Furthermore, how does a man’s preference in women directly affect you, especially if you aren’t interested in him? I’ve found that white women more that any other race of women, could care less if white dudes date other races of women, or if they prefer red heads to brunettes, blue eyes to green, etc. Hell, I have to hear from Miss Jenkins from Three Ways on a daily basis profess her love for the Idris Elba-esque shade of brother and treat the light skinned brothers like second class citizens tell me she doesn’t do light skin men! However, I don’t hate on her for that, or question her true motives behind her preference. I just inform her that she will only see the gates of Heaven after a proper lay down by a fairer skin fella, and go about my business.

A wise man once said “What you eat don’t make me twit sh*t” and I live this motto daily.

You like who you like. Whether it’s Coke or Pepsi, XBOX360 or PS3, Nike Boots or Tims, Blackberry or iPhone, we all have different tastes. I think we shouldn’t judge people by their preference but rather their overall actions.

Do you all agree? Do you think I’m biased because of my skin color? Is there a correlation between a man’s preference in women and an inherent discrimination within (racism, etc).

See Also:  Sorry Shorty. I Can't Help You.

Why are women so pressed about a man’s preference? Insecurity? Genuine hating? Jealousy? I have no clue. Maybe you can figure it out and we talk it out in the comment session.

– Streetz

Comment(159)

  1. I would just like to say that white women DO care about who white men date, they just try to pretend as if they don't and are more subtle in their ways. My Asian friend has told me how some white women treat her with a certain attitude when they realize she's dating a white guy. Everything from cutting her off in conversation to just plain ignoring her. Sometimes I think white women feel the same way about Asian women, that black women do about them.

      1. Yes it is across the board. I have dated every race, ethnicity, creed and the like and I've gotten death stares from women of that particular group as well as black men. (They were more vocal about their disadain and at times got violent) It goes for both men as well as women. It's never just one particular group. Just be a little bit more observant and you will easily see it.

    1. I don't know any white women that care what race white men date. And I am white. White women don't feel possessive over white men. Its just not like that. She don't have that feeling of solidarity amongst us white folks for the most part. (unless you are a redneck)

      1. My date and I once got the evil stare down from pretty much every white woman in the restaurant we were dining in…because my date was an extremely handsome white male. I arrived before he did and when he arrived the look of shock on the faces of the white women waiting in the lobby area with me were priceless. Did I mention he was fine? Of course the waiter had a sense of humor and gave us a table in the center of the room…so all eyes were on us. I found the whole situation to be extremely amusing.

  2. Because women are confused, period. They want Tupac with a degree, which is stupid, but then when average but decent guys find women that do accept them, they want to be angry and play the victim role. Should've thought about that when you were chasing your educated/pretty thug dream man.

        1. *quietly walks off bridge*

          DEAD at the hilarity and truth of this statement. Don't pay the "offended" woman any mind. Obviously not secure in herself enough to know she's phenomenal no matter what she looks like and (most importantly) take what his "preference" is with a grain of salt. Preferences change with the switch of the hips attached to a big butt and a smile. You are fooling no one.

          But seriously, no one (man or woman) should have a problem with anyone's preferences. That's what THEY like. So? What's it to ya? If it don't apply let it fly.

    1. "but then when average but decent guys find women that do accept them, they want to be angry and play the victim role"

      I've seen a LOT of this. I call it "Black Woman's Folly."

  3. Yeah I agree with you Name. I've definitely heard that from my Asian friends who date White guys. White women hate on Asian women something serious. Also, when I've dated white guys, I've definitely experienced hostility from white women. So that stereotype about them not caring is not true at all.

    Also, men hassle women about our preferences ALL the time. It's usually that you all think our preferences are superficial or whatever, but it cuts both ways.

    Personally, I don't care who someone else prefers to date, unless it is someone who is dating me. Now I am a dark skinned woman and if you say you prefer to date light skinned women, I'm going to question why you are with me. The same holds true for any other preference.

    As a side note bc it's not that serious, but if you do prefer one race over another that is not your own race, it implies that you have issues with your own race. It's one thing to date whatever race you please, but if you say you prefer white women, it's hard for me to believe that this is just a "preference" and not your own issues with race manifested through your dating life. But whatever, I have too much going on in my own life to be thinking about someone else's issues.

    I think black men think black women are more concerned than we are, most of the black women I know, don't care one way or the other what some man is doing, if it's not their man. You may meet a few who do and others who express their opinion for the sake of conversation, but in the end it is not that deep. Especially nowadays, I'm meeting more black women who aren't even checking for black men like that bc the more educated you are as a black woman, the less black men that are around. When I was in law school, there were only a handful of straight black men, so there were a lot of black women who dated other races. No one focused on what black men were doing bc there weren't any around.

  4. I would literally snap when I heard a black man say he preferred a lighter skinned sister. It took me awhile to realize it had nothing to do with them but rather how I felt about my darker skin. I have to agree… you like what you like and should make no apology for it. But I do think if you limit yourself you may miss out on something special. I've dated white, Puerto Rican and Dominican men but I find solace with black men. I thought the Muslim brother and I would have issues but we just respected each other and I learned from that experience. I have some preferences as well as standards.

    1. It took me awhile to realize it had nothing to do with them but rather how I felt about my darker skin.

      ^^^

      THIS!

      I didn't even bring up that point, but maybe that is another issue. We talk about how if I like dating another race I hate myself. Well.. do you hate yourself if you hate on other races? Wow great inquiry!!

  5. I think women get heated about a man's preferences because they take it personally. If what he describes as desirable is not what she is, she's reacting to it as if it's an indictment of her when in reality dude is probably not thinking about her at all while he's talking. Most of the time.

    The glaring exception to this seems to be when black men say they prefer not to date black women. It seems what's hot in the streets nowadays is to list all the egregious behaviour in black women that has caused men to run in fear for their lives. Without exception, every man that I've encountered who has an aversion to dating black women is blaming us for it and that does get me a little steamed, I'll admit.

    Ultimately I think people should like what they like. Because you're right Streetz – what you eat doesn't make me sh*t. But own up to your stuff. If you like what you like because you like it and not because you were "driven to it", me and you are good.

  6. I wish this was simple. I personally do not have a prefence. I'll date a black guy, white guy, asian guy, latina guy, middle eastern or whoever as long as the physical attraction is there! And i also have no problem with people who do have preferences. You like what you like. But what happens if you like what they (a society that values lighter skin more than darker skin – i wish i wasn't telling the truth) value want you to like? I think people (guys- since they are the subject of the post) need to take some time and really think about the foundation of their preferences and determine whether or not there is any merit. A lot of people say that a man will marry his mother, but I have just as many men marry women who were wonderfully different. There is nothing wrong with a prederences. If a guy has a preference that I don't fit I walk away cause i'm sure i will fit the description of someone else's preference – or better still, I'll meet a guy who doesn't have one.

  7. I echo so most people's sentiments on here thus far. Most of the time I truly don't care what you like… "what you eat doesn’t make me sh*t." So if you like your women barefoot, pregnant, degree in hand, rockin a baldie… by all means HAVE AT IT.

    I think some black women go nutz-o when dudes say that they prefer lighter skin/long hair, etc b/c if you are not that woman it's not necessarily that you want the man giving the preference it's just like warfare for your pigmentation. The media shoves this "exotic" looking woman down our throats all day everyday and when u hear a man describe her <del>not that most dudes could even bag this video vixen of a woman</del> as his potential BooBoo-BunBun you wanna get out the gear b/c you feel he's fallen as a P.O.W. For some reason we have to prove to him that we are good enough to wife, prove to the media that we are good enough to be in the video, etc. So this typically very chill, casual "non-exotic" black woman will stand and give this dude 400 and one reasons why he's delusioned.

    Personally I just want you to own up to it. If you wanna date Kim Kardashians twin b/c you know what the 'other fellas will say' and not b/c it's generally what you like… you need to check yourself. Like Cam said "A lot of people say that a man will marry his mother…," but there are a lot dudes out here checkin for the complete opposite pushing the skin tone of the woman who raised him completely to the side. Hey… do you. I have physical preferences too… if your height is less than 5'10 you might as well keep on stepping. I'm not close minded though… I'd hate to miss out on a good thing, b/c my preference for me isn't God's endgame for me.

    1. Think you hit the nail on the head with that Freudian comment. My mom is Black, but looks "exotic". Not to mention she always told me to have at whatever female I wanted. So I brought home the gamut (except a White woman for some odd reason). I think my mom looking a certain way opened up other doors to me. Her side of the family is aesthetically diverse so it wasn't a big deal if my new shorty was caramel, mocha or deep chocolate. The women on my Jamaican side definitely gave me the side eye when I brought home a Latina or an Asian though.

      I think what's you're raised around or the family dynamic opens or closes doors for dating.

        1. LOLOL Depends on what part of Queens though.

          Never brought a white girl home euther but thats because my older sisters a racist. j/k but she always went by the "they better be fly as hell" notion.. she styled on Asians too! smh

  8. As the originator of the convo AKA Midtown Mo, I appreciate the post & the time you all took to add commentary. There are a number of issues prevelant here but my main point in talking to my good brother Streetz about it was that I don't understand why women get so mad when a man has a preference. I start getting calls from their local Congressmen when I express my type.

    I've heard countless times from a woman that prefers dark-skinned men to their lighter skinned counterparts. Do I go all ape $hit and start thinking about history & how the dark skinned brothers appear to have more strength & are more protective…hell no. I chuck the deuce cause if you're not feelin me, please be sure & twice certain that another woman is. So ladies, if a guy express his preference & you do not fall into that category…guess what? he's just not that into you.

    "Do not ever let someone effect your self-esteem. It's called SELF ESTEEM. Esteem of your muthaf'n self!" –Katt "Burgeler" Williams

    Finally, I got to do the Kanye shrug whenever I hear this talk about the beauty of Black Love. "Oh my gosh, look at Barack & Michelle…that's true black love". Newsflast, Barack is 1/2 white just like me…what in the world are you talking about. Love has no color. A woman can love a purple pirate for all I care. So stop, just stop.

    Thank you again,

    –Midtown

    1. " Do I go all ape $hit and start thinking about history & how the dark skinned brothers appear to have more strength & are more protective…hell no."

      I think that is something that doesn't get discussed and glad you pointed it out. (The stereotype of the darkskinned male personified as a specimen of physical prowess…) It's funny, I was watching True Life, I'm a Female Body Builder (stumbled across it) and they were talking about how all the body builders apply fake tans to look darker because its supposed to make you look stronger. Interesting…

      1. Well my white mama always said fat looks better tan…. ? LOL It seems there is a consensus that lily white is not the hotness if you have muscles or fat. 🙂

        1. i find it odd. light-skin is the new black. but people who lack melanin are always layin in the sun, spray-tanning and bronze-lotioning their way to darker skin. u need some colour in the cheek to look more lively, vivacious, no?

          and i must say, i think we need to make national geographic's 'the human family tree' required viewing from age five to thirteen. were all ONE race, originated in africa and dispersed throughout the entire world. hence, central asians with blond hair and blue eyes. maybe we need to CLOSE our eyes and OPEN our minds..

  9. I agree with this post, quite simply you like who you like. I feel like those who crucify others for their preferences are just projecting their own insecurities. If you dont fit into the category of what another person likes, dust yourself off and try again.

    But what do I know, my girl is light skinned with green eyes.

  10. I must say I'm tired of having this conversation. Personally, I don't care about the skin color of a woman a Black man chooses to date if I'm not interested in dating him. If I do like him, however, she could be bright green for all I care…we have problems.

    My perspective on the issue is influenced by a few key factors. 1) I'm rarely intimidated by the beauty of other females. I consider myself Grade A material. 2) I understand and appreciate the fact that God made other beautiful women. If I'm one in a million there are * at least * 304,000 other bad (potentially badder) chicks like me in the US. I'll probably run into a few of them in my lifetime. 3) I don't really think being light-skinned with long hair necessarily gets you anything but a little attention. Last I checked it couldn't get me into heaven, do my homework, pay my rent or build the foundation for a lasting and healthy relationship.

    The other night I was at dinner with arguably the biggest promoter in the US. I won't say who, but this dude has the money and the power to make your head spin. Anyway, one of his minions (a 50+ bald pale and fat cuban/italian mix who looks like he's working on having a colostomy bag soon enough) said something to the effect of "ugghh I don't like Black women!" then ever so tactfully turned to me and said "Don't get me wrong the light-skinned ones are ok but I can't stand a dark skinned Black girl." Was I supposed to take this as a compliment? Being that I didn't notice a line out the door of Black women or women in general waiting to date this man I chose to say nothing. That's right, I Rick James, gave him a good old eyeroll and kept it moving. Was arguing with him going to make him want to wife a dark-skinned girl? No. Do I really care? Nope. He'll probably die alone and end up in hell. That's judgment enough.

    Anyway, I tell this story to say this. Racism and self-hate are brothers. It's ok to be attracted to someone beautiful….but don't be that guy.

  11. You hit on something good there when you said people typically have issues with other folks preferences when they don' meet those requirements. I've had several dudes get on me for my preference for men who are taller than me (in heels). Those who have a problem with it are short–my height (without heels). But I've also noticed that as men get older, they tend to NOT share their preferences with women who don't fit the bill. For example, I had a guy go off on women with dreds being to super-Black and not being able to grow hair without it being dreded. He did this because I don't have dreds and don't, on the surface, fit the super-Black stero-type. I told him my mother and one of my close friends have dreds. He damn near choked. He expected that my esteem would be so low, I'd take his downing of women who don't look like me as some sort of compliment.

    Having said all of that, some Black women find it hard to believe that Black men can really have enough in common with someone socialized differently than how many of us, who have Black mothers were socialized (cus mother's are typically in charge of socializing the kids and white mothers often socialize their children the way they were socialized–GENERALIZATION). Women are pressed because they see it as a personal rejection of them. It's dumb because these same women would be OK with a Black man saying he wouldn't only be with brown or dark women.

    Note: My opinion/research (generalization) is based on years of hearing this discussion in the hair salon (all women), in Detroit (predominately Black city) and Howard U. (HBCU).

  12. Well for starters – you are correct when stating your preference shouldn't matter to the next person. And, since this is about preference and 'Prerogative' you are entitled to choose whatever you like. I will say however, not all women are jealous, insecure or obsolete – some comment on the nature of dark vs. light because its been embedded into our thoughts for such a period of time. The whole light skinned girls with long hair or dark skinned girls with kinky hair – its tiresome yes, but it still exists (tiresome and silly, but it still exists). If someone is solely choosing looks over brain power then I think there's going to be a problem down the line because looks *can't* get you everywhere. Just my thought of randomness infused into one.

  13. Commenting would be so much easier if I could use a computer!

    I use to get really upset when men would dismiss dating a woman because of her size. Even when I wasn't attracted to a man I would get upset about it. I think it has to do with wanting to be wanted. You don't wanna hear that your chick friend thinks the only hot dudes are football players and the rest of them couldn't ever even compare while your non football playing a$$ sits there and wonders "did she just call me ugly" I think women have a harder time not getting things twisted when it comes to a mans preferences. And I think a lot of it has to do w/ a womans level of self confidence. Now when a dude says he doesn't like big chicks I think "good we don't like you either" and move on

    I think Remi said they think ppl that prefer dating races other than their own have issues with their own race – I don't think that's the case when its a "preference" but I have met ppl who REFUSE to date men/women in their own race. That is a problem. I PREFER black men but I have no problems pointing out that fione a$$ white boy that just started at my job w/ his pretty boy smile – he could get a date if he asked. ;o)

    1. I understand that distinction as well

      Refusal vs Preference.

      On the flip side though, I refuse to date stupid air head women. Is that foul to all the air head women in this world? #devilsadvocate

  14. These comments make me feel very uncomfortable.

    @remi – I love you, but you're absolutely wrong. You are a long jumper. "As a side note bc it’s not that serious, but if you do prefer one race over another that is not your own race, it implies that you have issues with your own race." That makes no sense whatsoever to jump to that conclusion based on a preference.

    To all–In the herstory and history of all mankind there has never been a light skin girl who looks at a light skin guy and says, "He's got a dark-skin complex, he only dates dark skin girls." This should tell you something about yourselves.

    If you are one of those, "I don't care what you do…" commentors, then let me tell you the most common phrase said by haters… "I don't care." If you didn't care you wouldn't have commented, you wouldn't have even felt the need to quote what you would say to a brother who dates a particular preference. So as I normally and typically say, STOP FRONTING. You maaaaaaaaad!

    As the guy who brought you such great hits as, "Lighter than that… but Black." and "Light, bright, damn there white." let me be the first to tell you that a preference at times means very little because I have dated all shades and races of people. (Sidenote, i'm still offended when I got excused from the interracial dating conversation because some chick said, "oh Dr. J get outta here we know you don't date only Black women." *kanye shrug* My first real GF was Bolivian. I'm focused man…)

    And let me tell you another thing, (would another brother please hold the end of this church pew for me" i'm finna throw it into the congregation.) It's topics like that that make men want to stop dating certain chicks. I put it like this, I rarely date Greeks because I HATE TALKING ABOUT GREEK ISH all the time. It's bad enough I have to talk to my frat brothers about pledging, hoes and winning all the time, why do I want that when i'm trying to make sexy time? Now…. I hate this light skin vs. dark skin conversation it's stupid, light skin women don't have it…. I hate this why do black men date white women conversation it's stupid…. white, asian and latina women don't have it….

    *kanye shrug*

    And i'll leave you with this famous Dr. J quote, "In a world filled with so many beautiful women, light, dark, black, white, puerto rican, Haitian or Asian, Jewish or Blasian… to not have a preference renders a man unfocused. Runamok… So to the people who hate on a man with a preference, they're dumb, having a preference is a sign of discipline and maturity."

    My name is Dr. J and i'm clear.

    1. "So to the people who hate on a man with a preference, they’re dumb, having a preference is a sign of discipline and maturity.”

      I co-sign! Preach!

    2. I said "I don't care" aka "what you eat don't make me sh*t" but it's not b/c I'm a hater… talked about this on another post — I mean what I say — it's b/c i really don't care. And maybe 'I don't care' b/c I've never been outright rejected due to skin color. I chose to comment b/c as a brown skin cutie w/ a best friend who is bi-racial and one is the color of dark chocolate… i see it daily. The light skin girl wonders if dudes even listen to what she says… or if they just see hazel eyes and loose it. The dark chocolate one has self esteem so high if you ain't lookin at her, she ain't lookin at you…

      It's just an interesting topic so why not throw in my 32 cents?

    3. I must comment on this, because there is some truth, but I'd like to clarify a few things. One, saying I don't care is equivalent to indifference, if not the very definition. So I must say that I agree with many of the women on this post to that degree. It hurts deeply when you look at tv or magazines and you don't see a reflection of you and that same person is being worshiped by millions of guys, including the ones that you're dating. It says something. Not only about you, but about the mind set of millions. Perception is reality! Period! If light-skinned is your preference, that's you're reality. It doesn't matter that there are forces in the world that are trying to get you to feed into their BS! However, if you stop and listen to the Spirits around you, this idea of light skinned vs. dark skinned would never be an issue (I will stop here before I get all metaphysical and intuitive up on here) However, I agree, a preference doesn't render you a "hater" of your race. I prefer educated men, who are over 6'0, and he must have a "BIG ONE" (I added this for comic relief, but you get the picture) I'll be damned if someone tries to knock me for it! My preferences are just that, MINE! Race is a very multi-layered issue that not many people truly and thoroughly understand. I must admit that I too used to get angry when men said their preferences were of someone that doesn't look like me, but you come to realize that none of this is personal. He doesn't like you, get over it!

  15. I think that once a man states a preference for a mainstream chick, it automatically gets put in an almost "anti-Black" box, (and a preference for "the blacker the berry, the sweeter the juice" person is pro-Black.) Why? Not sure honestly, but it reminds me of the "good hair" debate. As a longtime fan of the "creamy crack," I feel the backlash of not being a "natural sista" (whatever that means) #letmebegreat! lol if I want my straightened hair flowing down my back, that doesn't mean I'm not Black! OMG that gets me heated! Sorry, I digress…but to bring it back, I'm cool with the mainstream preference. I have preferences as we all do, however, like a few have previously stated, I'm strongly against the notion of preferring someone who is not your race. JMHO. You hear the Wesley Snipes and Dennis Rodman's of the world talk about how they don't date Black women, and Black women weren't there for them before they made money, bla bla bla…It's a bunch of crap. They forget that when they were busted and broke, they only lived amongst Black folks. Trust, "other" folks wouldn't have been checking for them before they were balling as well…

  16. I agree with Remi … men hassle women about our preferences all the time. I'm a latina & gotten some heat from a few a men about why I've only dated latino guys. It's not that I dont like African American men… it's just that it's never happened. I've seen lots of good looking Afr. Amer. men

  17. It's funny this topic came up. My man and I had a long discussion last night about this and I brought up the fact that I know he prefer lighter skinned/long-haired petite women, in which I stay 5'7 cocoa brown thick chick who works out regularly. I told him, I understand that is simply his preference, but that doesn't take away from me.

    HOWEVER, I am from Louisiana, and have been told many of times, "Girl, if you were just a little lighter, I would marry you." True enough, I'm between Sanaa Lathan and Gabrielle Union skin tone, but I do embody brown skin with kinky-curly hair. I'll admit, it does hurt that I, a brown skin chick, can be the baddest who covers all the bases, but a lighter skinned chick can walk up with half of the qualities I possess, and capture the attention of the object of my affection–but the question stands, should it?

    I say all this to say, I understand that I may not be the "prototype type beauty," but I'm still gorgeous and get mad play. I'm happy about who I am, and if someone doesn't prefer it/like it, well maybe he ain't suppose to drink my milk.

    When females get to the point where many men will and won't prefer their looks, and simply love all that they are, the issue of being lighter/darker diminishes. There are too many people in this world for my skin, looks and body not to be loved.

    1. "dont let no one tell you you aint beautiful."

      little do they know, when a woman has charisma and [pause] swagger as such.. its definitely a beautiful beautiful thing. men melt.

  18. Lets get the 'shots' out of the way:

    Remi, if dudes hassle women about their preferences ALL the time, then all the time those preferences are well outside the realm of logic. I feel too many black women set too many unrealistic expectations so that's when&why a brother will get a lil' upset.

    On the other hand I want to 'offer' an explanation to the question. Fellas, you have to understand that due to incarceration, drop out rates, etc. of black men, black women have little left to pick from. Forget light-skin dark skin, to 'enforce' a preference in black men in general will leave a woman with a small pool of candidates. So fellas, to come back at them with a preference after that can warrant the Desert Storm response. At the end of the day, life is meant to be lived, so black men need to step it up, and black women need to spend the 'desert storm' energy elsewhere. Further discussion of this situation opens a whole next can of worms so I'll it at that.

    Back to personal preferences in women, I have them too dammit, but before the ladies go all postal, understand that the preferences are indeed superficial, and that if a man gets to know you, you may indeed end up with the wifey sash! My head will still turn a lil' when that light skinned shorty walks by, but while I'm doing that you will be checking out the Idris-Elba homie with the tattoos at the same time so don't trip!

    In order for me to enforce my preference, there have to be two women of nearly the exact same body, spirit, attitude and both mesh well with my dreams and goals (IMPOSSIBLE by the way). In this scenario, I would chuck dueces to the darkie EARLY!

    Just being honest…

    1. Back to personal preferences in women, I have them too dammit, but before the ladies go all postal, understand that the preferences are indeed superficial, and that if a man gets to know you, you may indeed end up with the wifey sash! My head will still turn a lil’ when that light skinned shorty walks by, but while I’m doing that you will be checking out the Idris-Elba homie with the tattoos at the same time so don’t trip!

      ^^

      THIS!

  19. I know it's his prerogative, but that don't mean we can't criticize, question, and/or make fun of Bobby Brown's Smooth Criminal-lean high top fade. Same goes for anything else.

    "However, why should a man get chastised for what he likes if he’s genuinely interested and attracted to those characteristics?"

    "Geniunely" is the key word. Sometimes, I gotta question if it's always geniune or is it because of the subliminal messages in the media. I mean, there are ninjas that think that light skin is the default of beauty standard. For real? Like, you would think the female version of Flava Flav was beautiful if she had light-skin? GTFOHWTBS. I think the obsessive and ridiculous focus on skin color alone is ridiculous, especially considering it is really just has a miniscule factor on overall beauty.

    "Why are women so pressed about a man’s preference? Insecurity? Genuine hating? Jealousy? I have no clue."

    Why are dudes constantly asking this as if they were born tomorrow? lol. You don't think that years and years of society/media pushing images of what is beautiful wouldn't have a valid effect on a sista? Especially a young one? Yeah, you can chalk some of it to insecurity, general hating or jealousy, but there is no doubting the role society plays on people's idea of beauty whether it's someone else's or their own.

    I truly hope for a world where we will all be able to say "pshaw!" on what society tells us, but that's not likely to happen anytime soon since we're human and all; thus, susceptible to insecurities.

    1. LMAO! Yo…there are many men who date any women simply because she's light-skinned. But back to what Carolyn said, I wouldn't want anyone who wouldn't want me either.

    2. "Yeah, you can chalk some of it to insecurity, general hating or jealousy, but there is no doubting the role society plays on people’s idea of beauty whether it’s someone else’s or their own."

      YES. The word "hating" is SUCH cop-out nowadays, and it gets on my last nerves.

    3. 'You don’t think that years and years of society/media pushing images of what is beautiful wouldn’t have a valid effect on a sista? Especially a young one? Yeah, you can chalk some of it to insecurity, general hating or jealousy, but there is no doubting the role society plays on people’s idea of beauty whether it’s someone else’s or their own."

      ^^^I completely agree. We tend to forget or not want to admit that society does play a huge role in what is precieved as beautiful. It's in front of our faces more than ever but the subconscious effects are the lasting ones that people take with them to form these opinions about themselves and others.

      I think this is party why people use Barack and Michelle's love as such a crusade because she is not light skinned with long hair or has the "exotic" look that we are supposed to deem beautiful and still she stands as a beautiful black woman that a black man clearly loves. The media continues to try to tear her down and call her ugly becasue she is not the picture of beautiful that we are so used to being socialized to seeing….sad but real

        1. Now you know for a fact that lots of people (read:women) would find Mr. President a little less desirable because of his choice in mate if she looked like JLo or Carla Sarkosy and there wouldn't be as much talk about "strong black love" or "black love " in general. People use the first couple as a symbol or sign of hope that "it can happen for you to sista! Just keep hope alive!"

        2. I'm not sure but I can bet your bottom dollar he wouldn't even had made it to the primary if he were married to a 2520. lol Lots of folks were talking about that during the elections.

          I think there's a lot of truth to it, especially considering that a major voting demographic was Black women.

  20. I've had to go to war in forums for the past couple of months because someone will always ask why a black man does or doesn't prefer something, as if we cannot have any choice. Then the shaming comes out: "You don't want a dark skin woman? You must hate black women! You don't want a plus sized woman? You must not be a "rrrrrrreal" man! You don't want a woman with one foot? You're an insensitive bastard!" That is what I see MOST of the time from those who have been indirectly been rejected.

    Personally, what I like is just that. I've had people tell me (excuse me shame me) into thinking that I'm passing up such good deals because I don't give BBWs (another post) a chance, or I don't date single mothers knowing that I don't have an inclination towards either. However, a woman will tell me that a man needs to have goals, car, own place, pretty teeth, nice hair, makes over $75K (or as one woman says: "can't be content with making just $45K") and has a Masters degree or better. and has to have some thug in him. I cannot refute what she says, but when I lay down my preferences, manhood, sexuality, everything is now attacked or in question.

    1. Another note: Why in the heck is this light skinned/dark skinned thing being revived from the dead every week on these blogs? IT IS NOT THAT SERIOUS!!!!!

      1. I think it's on the blogs every other week b/c it's really something that has no resolution. There is no finite ending to this discussion; call it a cocktail – part insecurities, part media influence & part choice from the libido.

        1. FYI: this post isnt just abt light vs dark its about preferences in general. You the commentors are choosing to elaborate on that one facet of an overall problem.

          Carry on

    2. The "he has to have goals" one always cracks me up b/c its only slightly less fraudulent than the height one. We all know that "goals" are completely subjective so saying someone has to have them is almost entirely meaningless.

  21. Well, I think that what you wrote is a pretty good observation and insight. I can tell u as a light skinned woman and my experience dating black men – i have gotten plenty of nasty stares, smart remarks, rolling eyes, sucking teeth, and just plain outright hate. I've gotten it from random women who see us on the street, I've gotten it from the dude's own sisters. A lot of black women have told me they are uncomfortable with black men dating light skin women b/c they feel like there's so limited "good" black men out there, and why do light skinned women, or women of different races, have to take the few good ones out there. But – to me – that's crazy. Men aren't a piece of meat, or on sale for you to go shopping for. If that man fell in love with a light skinned woman or a woman of a different race-why do you want him anyway?! He's taken, for one, and he doesnt want you! So keep it movin and find a man who does recipricate the feelings back towards you. It's a reason to stay angry and be mad and hate the world and it's so unnecessary.

  22. key thing you said: if you aren't interested. lots of times they are interested. or considering the possibility, and it can be a let down. I say people do whatever you want, but I date black men. period. I prefer black men with medium to darker complexions, but have dated all shades of brown. It works for me; never had a reason to switch it up, and I don't go out of my way either.

    1. *co-sign*

      No one wants to feel rejected, and those whom are interested get salty…I love Black men, all shades, but I've also interacted with many races since boarding school (surprised? lol) so i've seen the spectrum. At the end of the day, I'm more attraced to Black men, (all shades…)

        1. Streetz rejected? #ultimateswindle lmao

          But you wouldn't admit feeling a little disappointed? Not just in relationships, but in general? if you didn't get the job you wanted, if you didn't get offered acceptance into your fraternity? No one likes rejection…

        2. ME not get acceptance to the frat? #swindle lmaooo

          Nah but in all failures thers a foundation for success.. and I find those and operate accordingly. I would be disappointed but Im not going to dwell on the negative. Its #ontothenextflow!

          You dont like "my people" cool. I'll be aite. What you eat dont make me Twit!

  23. Women admonishing men over preferences usually boil down to an inability to separate the personal from the general. As many have commented already, they take it personally as a rejection. They have their own personal self-esteem issues to work out. So a particular black man prefers white women: in the immortal words of Derrick Coleman, whoopdie damn doo! Nobody is everyone’s cup of tea, and not every black man, or most for that matter, prefers to date outside the race. One guy I know thinks Kim Kardashian is ugly (not he isn’t attracted to her or she’s not his type, he thinks she’s ugly). As long as a dark-skinned woman doesn’t physically repel men with her looks, she’ll have no problem finding male suitors.

    Cheekie: ”Why are dudes constantly asking this as if they were born tomorrow? lol. You don’t think that years and years of society/media pushing images of what is beautiful wouldn’t have a valid effect on a sista? Especially a young one?”

    Again, this serves to demonstrate that the problem is with the woman and her self-esteem issues, not the man.

    1. "Again, this serves to demonstrate that the problem is with the woman and her self-esteem issues, not the man."

      Part of it is, but not all of it. It doesn't help matters to just say the woman has a problem, but then don't get to the root of the cause. There is a reason that that beauty standards are so effed up beyond simple "insecurity". Otherwise, it wouldn't be such a mass problem.

      1. Low self-esteem is a mass problem.

        I understand why media images can have an affect on a woman, but again the problem is she lets it affect her. Many men aren't susceptible to media archetypes. Even the black media doesn't allow society's 36-24-36, blonde hair, blue eyed standard affect the fact we like darker skinned and thicker women. Why? Because in this particular instance, they don't give in to media pressure!

        That was the whole reason behind my "not everyone's cup of tea" point. So a segment of the single black male population likes white women. There's another segment that does not. For every Vida Guerra is a Buffie the Body. For every Kristen Dalton, there's a Kenya Moore. Despite what the media says, there are several men that are checking for dark-skinned women. You have to find someone that wants you for you, which you would have to do whether there is media influence or not. Getting upset over someone's personal preference, regardless of how they developed those preferences, is an indictment on that person, not society at large.

        1. "Low self-esteem is a mass problem. "

          It is, but when it comes to inter-race relations, I'm sorry but just chalking it up to plain self-esteem issues is insulting, frankly. It has to be deeper than that or else we would've solved it already by going to group therapy. Just because a girl may have low self-esteem doesn't mean that the CAUSE of it should be ignored. Yeah, quite the opposite actually.

          "I understand why media images can have an affect on a woman, but again the problem is she lets it affect her. "

          I agree with you here, actually. However, letting it slide is easier said than done for some people. Simple advertisements of a Whopper can cause even the most "independent thinker" to go out and get it. You don't think that same principle can apply to beauty standards? It sure as hell can, and have a deeper effect at that.

          "Getting upset over someone’s personal preference, regardless of how they developed those preferences, is an indictment on that person, not society at large."

          Not if the reason behind the choice is based on societal aspects. Sure if one person makes a choice, it won't necessarily affect the next. But if these choices reflect BEYOND personal and become societal? Then it becomes a problem that's not just personal. I could see if we just saw men walking around with light-skinned girls and that's it. It's the fact that this is COUPLED with the media images we see everyday. This is when it goes beyond personal.

        2. @ Cheekie, I'm sorry, but we need to stop blaming the media, advertising, etc. for our own preferences. I don't eat red meat so I don't buy a Whopper. I don't find superbly skinny White women attractive, so I don't gawk when I see a D&G ad. But if a Spicy Chicken sandwich or a Brazilian chick came on screen I'd be at full attention. Happy Veterans Day.

          The media, specifically advertising, grabs your attention if you're already pre-disposed to the product. Sure there will be new users, but it's mostly about solidifying the fan base. In other words, it doesn't really matter to me who's on the Vogue cover because that's not my bag, but if Eva Mendes is on the cover of Maxim I'll pick it up.

        3. @Seattle Washington,

          "I’m sorry, but we need to stop blaming the media, advertising, etc. for our own preferences."

          Okay, so tell me this. How do things like The Clark Doll Experiment happen if it's just "personal preference". Those little girls had to have learned that somewhere. And no, it's not their parents directly telling them "white dolls are prettier!". Media DOES have a valid effect on people's choices, whether you notice it or not. I'm not blaming it all on it, but I'm not ignoring it either.

          Same with "insecurity". Folks are quick to say that it's just this and leave it at that. Yeah, that's the easy way out. I'm trying to pinpoint that there are causes for this "insecurity". The ish didn't just come outta nowhere.

        4. Maybe I’m tactically going about this the wrong way. Let’s look at it from the male perspective instead of the female.

          The black media and many black women in general view a dark-skinned man as the sexual ideal. I’m light enough some people think I’m bi-racial. They also prefer tall men. I’m 5’-8”. Yet when women swoon over Idris Elba (or whoever the hot n!gga is these days), or how they looooooves thems a chocolate man, or when they say, “a man under six feet tall can’t even be in the same room as me!”, it doesn’t bother me in the slightest. It’s their personal preference. The fact that I don’t fit the media’s or any individual woman’s portrayal of the ideal black man means less to me than the migratory patterns of the Andean flamingo. Conversely, the media can plaster as many pictures and videos of Renee Zellweger or Sarah Jessica Parker up as they like, I'm still going after Kerry Washington.

          “Just because a girl may have low self-esteem doesn’t mean that the CAUSE of it should be ignored. Yeah, quite the opposite actually.”

          Wow. I hope your realize how fascist this statement is.

          ” However, letting it slide is easier said than done for some people.”

          Again, that’s their problem if they can’t let it slide.

        5. @ Hugh Jazz,

          "Wow. I hope your realize how fascist this statement is."

          ??? Wow, indeed. I'm not sure where you're going with that, but I do wanna know if I worded it weirdly because all I meant was that what caused the low self-esteem shouldn't be ignored. It's easy to say "she's just insecure", instead of looking at what caused that specific insecurity. I think sayings like "she's just insecure" is an easy way out in issues such as this because I believe them to be deeper. That's all I was saying. No "fascism" here.

        6. @ Cheekie, I can't refute evidence, but to play devil's advocate that was in the 1940s when things were a lot different than now in some aspects.

          I personally think it's mostly about cultivation. And as Hugh Jazz just stated, it may be a gender difference. There are plenty of Black men out there who won't look at a light skinned woman with any type of endearment. They need them a nice chocolate sister. Could it be because they were raised by women who weren't high yellow? Perhaps.

          All I'm saying is that to blame a dude's preference on the media alone is frivolous and a cop out to me. Are you telling me that I find some Asian women attractive because I watched a lot of kung fu flicks as a kid or because my 1/2 Chinese boy's mom was hella fine? Do I like Latina chicks because P. Diddy dated J. Lo or because I lived in an area with a lot of beautiful Dominican women? Does my friend date non-Black women because that's all he sees on the TV or because Black chicks never looked his way?

          I lean towards the latter, that more often that not preferences are environmental and experiential. Especially when I look at my friends and their dating patterns.

          By the way, it's cool to discuss things with you on someone else's blog. Boom!

        7. Never mind me, that's the libertarian in me coming out making the statement sound worse than it was.

          It was the implications of what you wrote more than what you actually did write. How do we not "ignore" or supposedly boost the self-esteem of people via the media? Do we not portray light-skinned women because dark-skinned women will be offended? Do women have to approve of the type of women portrayed on television as sexy so no one's feeelings are hurt?

          I think this is a case of Hume's guillotine. You are talking about what is; some women are affected by the media. I don't disagree with that. I'm talking about what ought to be; women shouldn't be affected by the media or anyone else. Emotionally for some, it's not easy to do, but that doesn't change the fact that they shouldn't allow it to bother them.

        8. @ Seattle Washington,

          "All I’m saying is that to blame a dude’s preference on the media alone is frivolous and a cop out to me."

          Gotcha. I don't think it's media alone, by the way. I'm just saying it could have a hand in it, whether you're conciously hip to it or not. That's the beauty (and evil) of media. A lot of its messages are subtle than a mofo. On that same note, I think saying any woman who voices an opinion on a man sayin "I only date light skin and white chicks" must have self-esteem issues is just as much of a cop-out and doesn't take heed of the valid concerns she has. "She just insecure" is the default statement du jour. It ain't always about that. As far as taking it personal, that's not entirely true. Maybe expressing the opinions that I'm expressing ain't just about me as it is for the entire collective of my Black sistas. Then again, I guess "sisterhood" don't fly in this "dog-eat-dog, every man for himself" world, huh? 😉

          "By the way, it’s cool to discuss things with you on someone else’s blog. Boom!"

          Ditto, man!

        9. i blame the parents.. and i thank god everyday my parents are nigerian and i was the first person born in this country. save me the trouble of having a lot of false advice thrust upon me and my two brothers and two sisters.

          the society and the media are the boogie men.. easy scapegoats.

        10. "But wait, I didn’t say anything about you taking it personal. We don’t fly that way homie!"

          Oh my bad, man, I didn't mean to imply you said it. I meant the general tone of the post that just because we express an opinion of men "seeing the light" (lol), that it means we took it personal. We're just empathizing with our darker sistren as a whole.

          Anyhow, you know you my homie. *dap*

    2. "Again, this serves to demonstrate that the problem is with the woman and her self-esteem issues, not the man."

      I don't know if I really agree with this last statement either…I don't think you can soley place the blame on the woman and her self esteem. Society and media play a huge role just like any other environment that you grow up in. Sometimes men make these decisions based on society and what is precieved of them as well so you can't say it just the woman's fault., there can be reasons why men make those choices wheter they choose to admit it or not.

      For example: if you were a kid and your dad said that all black women were bitches and couldnt be trusted and to never marry or date them and you enternalized that and went forth with it..that wouldn't be society.

      I think that years and years of anything can affect someone no matter who you are… people don't realize how conditioned you become to certain things. Years and years upon more years have conditioned us to think lighter is better, more beautiful and superior and I'm sure that image after image and point after point of people around us saying that they want a caramel this or a latte that or light this, a long haired that and end it with the term dime, wifey, stunna, etc. has not in some way subconsciously conditioned men to a preference that he thinks is something he soley has decided on his own.

      1. @Sea – THANK you. I think in general, folks are uncomfortable with admitting that media/society has a role in how they view things or what choices they make because no one wants to let go of that control. And I understand that, but that doesn't mean it's not happening…it's especially happening without you even knowing it. Don't sleep on the subconcious, people. lol Like in the Whopper example I gave above, sure it didn't MAKE you like a burger, but it sure did have a hand in making you seriously think about getting one because prior to that commercial, a burger was the last thing on your mind.

      2. Sorry Sea, didn't notice your response.

        "I think that years and years of anything can affect someone no matter who you are… people don’t realize how conditioned you become to certain things."

        I'm not saying they can't. I'm saying they shouldn't, or more accurately, you shouldn't let it.

        "…has not in some way subconsciously conditioned men to a preference that he thinks is something he soley has decided on his own."

        There's some truth to that. In the last chapter of Sam Harris' book The End of Faith (after reading through the atheist nonsense), he was discussing how everything we believe in or think we enjoy is just absorbed from the world around us and is not actually a part of us. But the implications of that is you have to ask what are preferences, and if they are simply an artifact of external pressures, then how are preferences (in this case for light-skinned or non-black women) wrong? Does that make the media right and dark-skinned women wrong?

    3. @Hugh Jazz,

      "I’m talking about what ought to be; women shouldn’t be affected by the media or anyone else. Emotionally for some, it’s not easy to do, but that doesn’t change the fact that they shouldn’t allow it to bother them."

      That is definitely my ideal world. But, I truly think it only becomes personal when the same thing happens to THEM. When a Black man tells them personally that they're not good or pretty enough because they are darker. Or they are "pretty for a dark girl". And then seeing images of it walking down the street through other couples only exacerbates the existing sting; it doesn't create it, though. That's why it's personal, IMO. What another man does with another woman doesn't affect your life, but I can't doubt that seeing it would hurt after having to experience it on a daily basis.

      "How do we not “ignore” or supposedly boost the self-esteem of people via the media? Do we not portray light-skinned women because dark-skinned women will be offended? Do women have to approve of the type of women portrayed on television as sexy so no one’s feeelings are hurt?"

      I think it would be nice and ideal if there was a balance. I mean, why the huge disproportion? What is that all about? Like there aren't enough darker chicks to choose from…which is BS. Like I said, if it was only the media, it wouldn't make much a difference. It's because it mirrors real life (life imiating art and vice versa…it's a weird cycle). No, not all men are like this, but too many are. A darker toned woman hearing "you're pretty for a dark girl" is not a rare occurence. I don't personally experience it, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't care. Because people I care ABOUT are that skin tone.

  24. Furthermore, how does a man’s preference in women directly affect you, especially if you aren’t interested in him?

    this is what i don't understand. if you don't want them why does it matter. i remember all that hoopla about jeremih's bday sex video and women going in on him about having a light skinned brazilian in his video. what if thats what he likes? he can't have what HE likes in HIS video without worrying about appeasing to self-image issues of some black women?

    really this is an issue that i see no solution too. people are going to keep liking who they like. others are going to criticize because they can. the world will still go on.

    1. "Furthermore, how does a man’s preference in women directly affect you, especially if you aren’t interested in him?"

      I don't get this either and I've found it to honestly be a Black woman thing. No disrespect of course. I used to get questioned for my dating decisions and preferences all the time…yet these chicks "weren't interested" or pursuing me. I see it with female friends now. They see a dude with a chick and they don't even want him, but they go off about the woman that he's with. Just like it has been said, if you don't want the guy then why does it effin' matter who he is with or what he's doing?

      1. But the fact of the matter, women often want the guy! Not, always, but sometimes it happens. Those few times in which darker women, like myself, have been looked over/passed by for a lighter skinned woman leaves a mark. It's not a self-esteem issue or even an issue of preference. The fact of the matter is many men (not all)of all races, prefer lighter skin women, and ultimately desire to make lighter skin babies. It's not an easy pill to swallow–but hey, it's true. The point at which women must get at is that it's okay. It's fucked up and it doesn't feel good NOT being the object of whomever they desire affection because their skin is a couple hues darker, BUT it does not take away from their beauty.

        I also believe lighter skinned people or white people or whomever don't have this conversation because they aren't affected by it as darker skinned people. Like I've previously mentioned, I've been told countless times that men wish I were lighter. Now, many may have not experienced such things in this fashion, but its visible through actions and words…etc..and has been felt by many brown-skinned sisters since the age of 2.

        …As with anything, you simply have to find peace with it. I wish people would stop calling it a "self-esteem" issue, because it is not solely that. Many times, it's often an issue of "why doesn't he want me…is it because I'm dark."

        …and that's ladies and gents…hurts…which causes the angry looks and whatnot.

        1. "Like I’ve previously mentioned, I’ve been told countless times that men wish I were lighter. "

          This supports my main point. People wanna chalk it up to "self-esteem issues", but the above is where these issues come from. And that is the main problem. No one wants to be rejected. It's a universal thing. I don't care if you have Diddy-level confidence in yourself. That mess hurts if you got a heart. lol

        2. exactly. why is it so hard to understand that it just hurts? its common knowledge that that is the mainstream preference. we hear it alll the time, see it alllll the time, and it comes up in relationship discussions frequently enough.

          its a constant reminder that something like the color of your skin COULD be the reason not one man, but say 8/10 wouldn't date you. or view you as the object of their affection.

          it just hurts a little. its warfare out here. and to be reminded of whats exotic, beautiful, lighter, better all the time is hard.

          why is that so difficult for people to understand?

          its a sick cycle.

          and yes, you do have to overcome, find a way to deal, and be happy with yourself because there are guys who like all types, but still… i wish people would stop acting like its a simple thing to brush off.

          black women are constantly criticized for being too this, too that, too ghetto, too independent, too educated, too smart, too thick, and yes, too dark.

          it can wear a chick out.

        3. I was dealing with a woman of darker skin than me. She would constantly make light kokes and claim I was ready to bounce if a light brite came my way. I felt liek she couldnt accept that I was into her regardless of skintone!

          Sometimes as light skinned(or lighter skinned dudes) we're damned either way!

    2. ditto. and many a 'fan' was up in arms of the kanye-directed drake video for "best i ever had"..

      haters? i mean, i guess everything does need to be PC. there shoulda been more asian and european representation. and some fat girls. and some short girls and a really tall girl. and a bald one too. self-esteem is a bitch..

  25. Hmm.. well… I see what you mean. And as a biracial woman most ppl would probably expect me to line up exactly to this but I see both sides (take THAT expectations! My MOMMA is black/not light skinned so BOOM to whacha heard! :oP)

    I think that what lots (not all) of Black women take issue with – and I've had this conversation with my girlfriends – is when Becky is just white. Like, that's it. Like when you see a dude with a white/light-brite woman and it looks like that was his only requirement, lightness. ESPECIALLY if you've seen him with & subsequently turn down some beautiful/sexy/FIONE specimens of the darker/more ethnic persuasion. At least fool me yo. As my best male friend (Black man, dates all across the spectrum & I have no problem w/that) says:

    "If you gon' bring snowflake in the house, at least let snowflake be BAD. Don't come with that weak sh*t."

    My sentiments exactly.

  26. Sidenote: And no I'm not taking shining personalities into play- on either side. B/c I think we can agree that a wonderful personality and/or loyal nature and beauty and/or dark skin are NOT mutually exclusive conditions.

    1. Again though: Why be concerned with the fact that he chose "just white?" Seriously, that reflects on his tastes and maybe there is something about her plainness or whiteness that happens to jive with him better. So what he has turned down darker women…why do darker women care?

      I guess that is sort of what another poster meant about who is concerned the most. Your friend was right in the sense of bringing home something BAD. However, I seldom have any discussion about redbones/dark ones with my dudes. They go after what they like and that's that. We don't bring up "yo, I seent you with a light skinned girl man…why you pass up the other dark skinned girls?" Fellas let fellas like what fellas like…it only becomes an issue when it is the opposite sex most of the time. Just like I've never understood why in some of these debates you could state "I don't do chubby women" to a petite woman and that petite woman, despite the fact that she meets criteria will still say "Why you dissing the chubby women? You never know…" Like…why care and why question it?

      1. Eh, there are so many things I could say to this, but we've heard them all before. I just find it interesting that you agree with my boy but still are confused by me/women who agree with him. At the end of the day a man who chooses an ugly white woman over a fine black woman, a wonky-eyed lightbrite blck american over a sexy chocolate dominicana or a saggy-breasted asian over a perky breasted winning-in-all-other-categories dark skinned Indian woman will still get the confused look from me.

        I won't be personally mad because hey- beautiful isn't his type and who are we to try to shove sexy down his throat. But please believe I'll have words with my peoples about it lol.

        1. Those brothers can get the confused look from you but I would take it a step furehter and ask:

          1. Does white girl have personality traits that is more desirable over fine black girl?

          2. Does wonky eyed lightbrite make something tick in the mans loins?

          3. Does Saggy breasted asian provide better "dome" than perky breasted Indian?

          Goes back to homeboy's preferences and is a bit deeper than skin tones.

          When I've chated with my brothas that date IRR, they usually say that the looks are one thing but…somehow or another they always come back to how they're treated. *shrugs*

        2. knowledge from mr hudson:

          "beauty is in the eye of the beholder. if you believe that, then darling im looking at you."

  27. I have been told by many a friend of mine that I have a preference of men, even when I never have said I "prefer" men this way or that way. I along with everyone else do seem to fall into the pattern of liking the same aspect of men over and over again such a tall and strong arms. I date across the spectrum and for me its not a preference it just happens that way. I don't think that you need to be limited by skin color and in some situations dating another race has opened me to a broader spectrum of experiences and challenges that I appreciate and have learned from. I've gotten the looks and stares from others and usually it is black men. When asked why am I dating "that dude" I find it kind of pointless to give them a well thought out answer because quite frankly the same people that ask the question are mostly likey the same people that weren't interested in talking to me to begin with…so what difference does it make?! You had no interest in putting in a bid for me before why are you questioning now.

    I don't hate my race or black men at all, hell my father and brother are black men, so that is not the reason i have tip-toed in the other gardens. To be honest I don't know why I like to explore the other shades of M&M's it just seems to have happened that way and they are equally attracted to me as a brown skinned woman. If you want long hair and light skin I'm not the cup of coffe you're getting today. I will say that if a man is talking about preferences and what he likes in a woman and you happen to be listening, we take a short pause and think… he probably isn't talking about you, doesn't realize you are into him like that in the first place, or like someone else said before he may be just keeping up with the jonses and saying it because its the in thing to do (in which case he's a herb for not being honest with himself).

    Something else that I do tend to see is that just like women a man can change his mind. I dated someone who wanted his women with long hair because it was so sexy and feminie but awhile after me the chick he dated had short hair… did he care? probably not because it wasn't as important to him at that time.

  28. I'm so over the skin color bit and I'll tell you why. People are so caught up in what other people are doing that they forget to do things that would make themselves happy. Eveybody has something they like and don't like and that applies to both men and women. If a guy doesn't like dark women why should he have to date one and if a woman doesn't like light skin guys why should she have to settle? I also think that it is ignorance for someone to get upset about someone dating someone outside of their race. As a black woman I am very open to dating anybody that brings me joy. My bf happens to be black but that wasn't important when I found myself interested. Maybe black women need to start opening up their options and start dating all kinds of men. My family is from another country so that might have something to do with why I could care less who black men date.

    there are far too many men in this world to be worried about a man that is already taken, let it go

    As for white women not having a problem with men dating outside of their race that isn't true. I have white friends that feel like asian and indian women are taking their men. And white women have their own quarrells similar to the ligh skin vs. dark skin it's called the blondes vs. brunettes, the fat vs. skinny, the stripper vs. ms. corporate america. Every race has its inner quarrells it just isn't put on full -display the way african-americans do.

    and there is my essay lol.

  29. A few follow-ups:

    1) Just because you're light skinned does NOT make you Beautiful. That is a Classic #Swindle that we must get out our head. The same way that some dudes need to get the "wow shes dark skinned and pretty" sh*t out of their head. Beauty knows no skin tone and neither does ugly!

    2) What about chicks who only date pro/#swindle pro athletes or thugs or the rich? Should we care because we're neither?

    SCREAM AT ME

    1. I absolutely agree that skin tone does not determine if someone is good looking or not, I honestly believe that beauty shines from within, some may find that to be cheesy but its the truth. By the end of the day people have preferences, and like day and night it changes from time to time, the commenter above me gave the perfect example of this.

      As for women that only date pro athletes, I can see their side of the situation and the genreal overall view as well. If we are placing labels, the one's that only date pro athletes would quickly be labeled gold diggers, but we have to take other things into account as well. Is she making her own money? Some women that are successful and paid are not interested in dating a man that has little to no zeros in his bank account. What kind of men did she see her mother date? The apple really doesn't fall far from the tree, if a female grows up seeing the person she looks up to dating men that are wealthy she will more than likely want the same thing.

      If we are talking about a woman that just wants to date pro athletes or the rich when she doesn't have half of the things she's demanding from a potential partner, she clearly needs to grow up and get her own. If she's old enough to know what she wants, she's old enough to get it herself. Then again, if we are talking about looks, pro athletes have the ideal bodies, maybe it's just a physical thing.

      As for thugs, some women like bad boys. I think at some point all women wanted one but you grow out of it, or you're supposed to. For me, thugs scare the sh*t out of me so I can't relate

      all of this is my opinion

    2. I think people take the race thing to heart, because its something that is apart of you from birth, and cannot change unless you're Sammy Sosa lol whereas being rich, or an athlete or whatever are things that are under a persons control (to some degree.) Those characteristics are deemed superficial, but race is usually the "coup de grâce" of issues. So…does race define who you are? I don't wanna touch that subject with an 11 foot pole, lol…

  30. I think it has to do with the feeling of lack of options. Women who feel rejected by Black men who's preference is non black or a black woman who looks non black, light skin long hair, etc. probably feel like that's one more lost. Since we are fed the statistic that there are not enough Black men that could create a sense of hopelessness when it comes to finding a mate. I don't know but that's just my estimation. I also agree with the sistas who said women get harassed for their preferences too. I prefer tall men (6'2 and above) I've been known to have a thing for men that have a "spanish" look about them. I've dated white and Middle Eastern guys and some black guys go bizerk even some who date nothing but non black women have something sideways about a black woman who has non black, persona, or height preferences.

  31. People need to learn to run their own race. I can't count how many times I saw a Black dude with a White girl and he had a guilty face. Like I was a sharecropper and they were running from the Big House. Other folks have the same look when they're with their respective SOs. Man/Woman, if you want to date a chick/dude that has less hue than an empty coloring book, than that's your deal. But just be proud of it and rock out with your proverbial cock out.

    When I was dating an Asian woman if I caught a Black chick staring I would kiss my girl ever so gently and then look at the Black chick with a smile. But I'm an asshole. And I was proud of my decision. Because I knew that my girl was badder than any chick that was staring that hard. For many reasons beyond the physical.

    The minute folks stop trying to date according to what the conception of beautiful is or worse yet what they think their family/friends want to see them with, the happier they'll be.

    1. "………And I was proud of my decision. Because I knew that my girl was badder than any chick that was staring that hard. For many reasons beyond the physical"

      YOU MY FRIEND…..I'd give you some money if I knew where you were right now. That last sentence says it all.
      What in the name of melanin h311 is wrong with people. If your partner is what you want in a person then by all means flaunt him/her and don't feel you have to apologize to anybody. As a young woman, I used to carry around the "he ain't right because he picked white" mentality, and that evolved to me getting mad at men from my part of the world because they were dating black women from America (issues!!!). I finally matured out of that nonsense…praise God!!! Now that I understand the importance of finding love with the right person, I am excited when I see people that are truly in love…no matter what their partner looks like. I have learnt to mind my own business, there are more serious things to take care of and worry about than why black men are dating green women.

      The debate will never end, the media will not stop with the ideal image of beauty thing, it is up to you as an individual to come to terms with the fact that people have their preferences and you should not take it personal when it does not fit into what you think it should be. +

      1. Holla at me on Three Ways for my address. I'll accept Money Orders or Cash. It's a recession, I need that guap!

        Seriously though, that's peace. A lot of women, Black, White and everything in between, don't think like you. Slow clap for the young lady.

  32. The incidence of this that cracks me up the most is the face vs. body question. If you say body, prepare to defend yourself. EVERY woman will automatically think it means that not only are you a superficial jackass but you enjoy ugly and/or skinny women. If you say face, that means you're actually a helluva guy, an upstanding stalwart of the community (one of the good ones). Its hilarious.

    1. "EVERY woman will automatically think it means that not only are you a superficial jackass but you enjoy ugly and/or skinny women. If you say face, that means you’re actually a helluva guy, an upstanding stalwart of the community (one of the good ones)."

      o_O….where dey do dat at?

      Both aspects are physical….so I don't see how one gets kudos over the other. I mean, I don't ever hear a chick say, "Why you only like me for my booty, you should like me for my face"…they'll most likely say, "Why you only like me for my booty, you should like me for who I am on the inside".

  33. “Women are pressed because they see it as a personal rejection of them.”

    Totally disagree!

    I am happily married, clearly I couldn't care less "personally" that someone wants to date chicks simply because they have a light complexion. But we can't sit here and pretend that people live and develop in a bubble and that race, society, racism, and so on, don't play any part in people's perception of what's attractive.

    Can you like light-skinned chicks? Of course. And just like you're entitled to your "preference" dark-skinned black women should be able to say what they think about it.

  34. Thank you all again for commenting. I stand by my original post that you should be able to like who you like without Sandra Jackson yellin at you "…and you will burn in hell…"

    Again, it's called self-esteem. I am not buying the whole society blah blah blah. Yes, it has an effect. A unhealhty majority of black men are in prison or en route. Does it affect my self-esteem? c'mon son. no. A woman or man for that matter should be happy with who they are.

    Are you mad that Lil Wayne said "I want a long-haired thick red-bone?" You shouldn't be, Lil Wayne has 18 baby mamas & unfortunately is going to prison for a year so I think you'll be ok.

    Finally and this is what really gets under my skin. WTF is "black love?" First of all, Barack is mixed. the end. Second, I did not know love was colorful. It's not. stop it. But I digress, that's is another 150+ comment post for a later date.

    –Midtown

  35. 'Going Desert Storm' . Females who aren't even in the game, and don't belong in the game do the most for some play, and attention. Conventional thinking would lead most to believe that dude's like women who are similar to their mom…but then again what dude remembers his mom going 'desert storm"

    @carmelcremelady: true their are probably limited options, but that's the after affect of having standards & being educated, ain't nobody told you to be successful, I'm sure if you were mediocre, you would be like a check cashing place and take anyone, instead of having 'higher standards' like bank of america.

  36. Could someone PLEASE PLEASE tell me what is the fascination with Black men? Its seems like everyone wants a piece of the black meat but why? why is 2009 does the majority of females of all races want a black man? Im dying to know.

      1. Would you ask why people want White men? Probably not. And the year has nothing to do with it. This isn't my site, but I'll say it anyway. Please keep your small-mindedness to yourself. Thanks.

  37. Dang. How you gonna call me out like that when you know you are my light-skinned boo! lol! I give you grief just cuz its fun. I love fine men of all shades…Yes, I prefer the chocolate covered brotha, but I'll take a caramel or butterscotch one too. 🙂

  38. My take:

    Preferences = opinions…every person is entitled to them.

    With that being said, if we are together, don't disrespect me with yours. Don't tell me how much better I'd be if I were different (lighter, darker, bigger, smaller, longer hair, shorter hair,…) because 9x outta 10 I either wont or can't change it anyway, and you're only being a hurtful jackass. Besides, if you decided to be with me you must have liked something, and who are you to know what would make me better…do you have a picture of me in your head that is this different person? I don't because I LOVE ME. If you do then you want someone else.

    This is where I've had the biggest issue with preferences. I don't often solicit them unless its just for fun in an informal, "let's ask a group of people a weird question" kind of way. It is in a relationship with someone where it is often forced upon me in a bitch ass way. If this is happening a lot to other women, can you blame some of us for jumping down a guy's back about it?

    I don't attack a guy for it, and I'm not gonna tell you I wish you were different either, but when I tell you my preference is for an amazing personality, don't doubt me either ;-).

    My motto: I'm me. Simple as that. Deal with it or move on.

    1. With that being said, if we are together, don’t disrespect me with yours. Don’t tell me how much better I’d be if I were different (lighter, darker, bigger, smaller, longer hair, shorter hair,…) because 9x outta 10 I either wont or can’t change it anyway, and you’re only being a hurtful jackass.

      ^^

      THIS! Luda you did it again! I coisgn 100%. If you are with someone, to ty to convert them into a preference is wrong! However I would say that enocuraging a SO to workout or better themselves isnt all bad..when done the right way

  39. Good topic streetz

    I think there is nothing wrong with have a preference. In my younger days it I would get offended b/c I thought it was a form of rejection. I think most people state a preference in a conversation setting b/c they want to make it clear they dont want any of the people they are talking too… (I have dont this lol)

    But on the real most people dont know what they want till they see it. I thought I loved chocolate brothers till I dated a light guy and thought he was was fine ass hell and loved every minute. I have had dudes who claimed they only dated "white chicks" but were harrasing me for a date.

    At the end of the day if your confident in yourself, then you shouldn't be phased by other people's preferences, b/c most people dont even know what they want. Now that I am older I realize this and I am not bothered.

  40. You may call it preference but unfortunately it goes beyond that to discrimination and degradation… Do you know how many dark skinned girls have been refused front facing jobs because they are dark skinned, or modelling jobs because they are dark skinned (and I mean proper modelling jobs, not those stupid hip-hop videos). Do you know how many dark skinned women have been told "you are pretty for a dark girl" or "you'd be pretty if you weren't so dark". Do you know that dark skinned people were required to stand behind light skinned blacks when taking photgraphs back in the old days. Do you know how much dark skinned women have been

    put down/denigrated/insulted/degraded/discriminated against for committing the terrible crime of being dark skinned? It all goes back to the days of slavery, "light alright, brown stick around, black get back"

    And you wonder why she may have self esteem issues…..

    There's your answer.

    One day the dark skinned black woman will be the object of everyman's desire – when she is almost EXTINCT.

    Until then, date who you like……

    1. CiLondon,

      We weren't talking about discrimination (or I wasn't) we were talkign about preferences. Im going to pose some tough questions relating to this topic from th angle you propose.

      Let's say I only liked dark skin girls. Any light skinned or other race was turned away because I told them that Im more attracted to darker shades of women. Would you consider that degredation or discrimination too?

      I don't think that I would be alienating or prejudging a group of women based on what I like. I think there's a difference. To say that "I date light skinned women but Im more attracted to dark skin women" is a preference. To say "I don't like light skin women or I refuse to date light skin women and im rockin with the chocolatte" is racism or whatever you call it in 2009.

      If I refused to date dumb golddigger-esque women, is that degredation against golddiggers? Serious questions.

      Thank you very much for postn all the way from Great Britian! I hope you join us again CI, its appreciated. Great comments

  41. Preference is the twin sibling of discrimination…. and that is why it is such a sore issue with so many dark skinned women. It opens up a lot of old unhealed wounds…

    1. I understand that completely. Dark Skin women have preferences too… I dont think theyre wrong persay. If a woman doesnt prefer me than its her loss!

      The racial undertones or discriminatory overtones are hidden at times by preference, but I think there is a such thing as a genuine preference.

      Some women only like athletically built men. Some men only date big women. You like what u like right?

  42. Pingback: The Beauty Complex
  43. White Woman have just as much drama and insecurities with them if not more not more than the insecure hateful Black Woman same for the latina and Asians.I am a Black Woman that has traveled ,ben in all types of environments,and with all classes of people.I have seen white woman see red and turn all shades of it because a white man perfered me over her.I have experinced woman of other races that exclusively date black men be blatently racist toward black woman and aggressive ,toward blackwoman.I think its cause they thought they had to prove their womanhood to a black man,and they admired something about the woman so they had to say without saying you might be whatever but your still a nigger bitch!However some classes of those women are more tactful and sneaky with their drama and hate,that is why they seem innocent of the negative behavior.Dont be naive people with issues are the same nomatter where you go.Their delivery is just different.

  44. I am toast, or coffee wit alotta cream complected.The black men that were telling darkskined and brown sisters they would be pretty if they werent so dark.Probably have a lot of indoctrinated self hatred.They probably look like gorillas on the inside and think they look like one on the outside,so they had to project thoses feelings of being ugly and inferior onto a target and you were there dont take it personal.These men also think that being with a beautiful lightskinned will make them be a better person.They are in the dark spiritually.Instead of continuing to blame the media and whites for our emotinal hurts lets educate ourselfs about the mind and how it is conditioned .Lets stop crying and being angry and work on healing,because if we dont we will always be angry and hurt and aggressive ,what sensable person wants to live like that.

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