
I can't read French, but pretty sure it says "F* a diamond"
There I am … sitting in class.
Professor: “DeBeers is a cartel that is not allowed to operate in the U.S. They were faced with an excess supply of diamonds and needed a way to make their relatively worthless stones worth a lot. Engagement rings, “Diamonds are Forever”, Spending 3 months salary on a ring, Diamonds = Love … all that was DeBeers.”
SBM: *raises hand* “So, DeBeers is really to blame for the concept of the Blood Diamond?”
Professor: “It’s old piece of coal. As a 10 year old, are you willing to tote an AK-47 for coal? No. Someone has to make sure that coal is worth a lot of money.”
SBM: “DeBeers sounds pretty f*’d up.”
Professor: “Yeah … they’re pretty f*’d up.”
And who said you don’t learn useful things in business school?
When I was a kid I played house. I had no idea that I would spend a significant portion of my life running from the thought of marriage, but at the time … I was young & dumb. I remember having a little plastic ring that I gave to my pre-pubescent wife. I remember the trouble I went through to get the ring from a dispensing machine. I remember that I wanted to buy something more practical with that quarter (cool little stick ball that felt like snot … hot sh*). But … I knew that I would not make my future wife happy without that little “symbol of my love.”
And that’s where the problem started …
The fact is that women society has some messed up principles when it comes to diamonds. Men are terrible too … but in the traditional SBM style I’m going to focus on the “fairer” sex. The following are “true” stories … and they make me sick.
A Woman who rather wait to be proposed to so her future husband can save for the ring
Crazy thing … I thought the point or proposing was to get married. If you found the person you want to marry, and they want to marry you … the carats and clarity of the ring is what is delaying things? When I first asked someone this and heard “yes … I would wait” I think I threw up in my mouth a little.
A Woman who gets her engagement ring appraised … then calculates 3 months salary
So, you got the ring, the got the proposal, your happy. But you have a sneaking suspicion that you got cheated out of half a carat since your friend’s fiancee works at the same firm but got a bigger ring. And you need to go confirm your suspicion. What is wrong with you? I hear getting an engagement ring appraised is common … I wish my future fiancee would. I WISH SHE WOULD.
A Woman sits through “Blood Diamond” … without flinching
Before I settled down, I used to watch this movie with every girl I dated. How can you not get warm in the chest when the dad tries to get his son and he doesn’t even recognize him? How can you just site there when the general is about to shoot the kid to figure out where the diamond is? How can you not want to go run up and slap a DeBeers employee in the face right after?
A Man thinks he is defined by the size of the ring he proposes with
Oh yeah … men are just as bad. I don’t know if this is straight simping, or something much much deeper. I know you don’t want your girl to be the one amongst her friends with the small ring, but how about that fact that most of her friends aren’t married. If she wants to show off something, how about the marriage certificate.
For all the men that have had to struggle to afford a diamond, got yelled at for buying the wrong diamonds, or had their love defined by a rock … this if for you.
And for you men that pushed that big ring on your girl after she had to show you “Blood Diamond” … kill yo self.
Am I thinking too much into this? Are diamonds still considered the universal sign for everlasting love? Why might I be wrong (I’m not) … why does that rock mean “I love you”
– SBM aka “Yes it was created in a lab … and you better dome me up just the same”
That picture looks like a Kanye West album cover.
my brother recently got married, and he didn't really propose it was kind of a mutual understanding. also, instead of getting her a "huge rock" they just stuck with wedding bands, she has a gold one and he has a silver one and there is an inscription inside the rings, but to be honest i don't remember what it says!
pretty cool i think.
I have a simple rule. If I can afford a "big" ring, then I'll buy it…and if I cant…then I wont. any woman I was with would understand the rationale behind that.
Sigh… I love the song "Diamonds Are Forever" by Shirley Bassey… & Kayne West (Max's Post)… That is as far as my love for diamonds goes…
I don't like to be flashy as a human being (I stand out enough based on the way I think)… But I like to see my S/O to be shiny… That is reason #2 why women were created (Reason #1 is to support men)… But I doubt I would go the distance to
wastedrop money like that… I hope some men have wised up to the swindleI am a fan of giving women their wedding, WEDDINGS are wavy…
But expensive diamonds & marriage certificates… Not in America…
Posts like these really make me wonder if "LOVE" is a priority in alot of people's lives…
"I like to see my S/O to be shiny… That is reason #2 why women were created (Reason #1 is to support men)…"
***sigh***
Im co-signing the sigh.
I'm just laughing out loud! 😀 😀 😀
I'm co-signing the sigh and adding an eye roll and a side eye and shaking my head….
honestly, I personally think simplicity is the best. I'm not a big fan of diamond, flashiness, extravagance, or other people's opinions. I'd rather a nice gold ring with a ruby. one that's affordable. If i had it my way i'd just rock a nice band and call it a day. I'm more focused on making the relationship grow, and last, than spending big money on a ring or wedding. But I guess I'm the exception not the rule.
That is what matters ATEOTD…
Yep. I think one of the main problems with marriages these days is that people don't have their priorities in order. People don't invest and put effort in the life after the wedding as much as they do the wedding itself.
agreed!
I definitely agree with this!
I agree Ms. Niki, I want a ruby or an emerald. Something meaning and different. Mainly, something that didn't put someone's life in jeopardy.
I thought I was the only one that wanted a different jewel.
Uh uh girl, I love originality.
"That is reason #2 why women were created (Reason #1 is to support men)"
I'll let that one go.
LOL… I know that won't go well in the morning… But I will stand by it….
I believe that a woman should get with MY program, not the other way around…
This probably the only belief I hold that I will not (logically) defend…
Goodnight…
The day is here that I support what you say. I do agree, it might be because of cultural upbringing, I'ont know.Anyway, my husband would be the leader/head of our home so of course I will follow his program. I wouldn't marry a man that I couldn't trust to chart our future anyway. Usually a man like this will collaborate with his help-mate to make sure the "program" is solid.
Mr. Adonis, making that statement might grind a couple of gears because there are a lot of aimless men making such comments. You better make sure YOUR program is worth following and a good leader knows how to collaborate and bring others in to the decision making process.
"You better make sure YOUR program is worth following and a good leader knows how to collaborate and bring others in to the decision making process."
PREACH!!!!!!!
How about we create a program together and build on it side by side?
I don't believe in 50/50 relationships… 1 Captain of 1 Ship…
Women get a HUGE say in my house, but I have veto power… Again women have gifts that should never be ignored (and should pick a man who can let those gifts SHINE)… I am a guy who really feels like I know what I am doing in alot of situations, and when I know I am incompetent, I ask for help…
Also on a global scale I DO believe a small percentage of women should lead, but that is not really built in their DNA collectively…
You test women by making them watch Blood Diamond? And they dont flinch? 🙁
Personally I am more concerned with women that need 20 grand + weddings. To me thats ridiculous!
See, but I get the wedding ceremony…I really do… (then again, maybe SHE should pay 20 Stacks)
But everything else… That is no benefit to me as a male…
I think there are better ways to spend that kind of money. Deposit on a house, intimate and amazing honeymoon? etc
Does the family of the bride still pay for weddings?
Back to topic, diamonds are NOT the universal sign of love. Most non western cultures dont have this diamond nonsense.
My grandfather married my grandma through the offering of goats. #eastafricarepresent
20 K on a wedding ain't bad. Don't knock it till you plan one.
"I think there are better ways to spend that kind of money. Deposit on a house, intimate and amazing honeymoon? etcDoes the family of the bride still pay for weddings?"
Yes! I say this all the time. I know of people who barely have a pot to piss in spend thousands of dollars on a wedding and are in debt. Or they have yet to go on a honeymoon or have a house? o_O
c/s Most
In the grand scheme of things 20K is kinda average
Now 100K I give the side eye to. And I know 2 people who's weddings cost 100K plus. Hell, one girl's wedding dress was 10K and that was w/ a discount
…The 20k weddings seem ridiculous but when you have upward of a thousand people at your traditional and white wedding to feed, it starts to look realistic. I guess you could include the bride price, dowry, all attire etc in there.
Do knock it until you plan one (I like that…)
What is ridiculous to one is reasonable to another…
I am just from the cloth that I believe in weddings… That is fun for me…
One my friends had a wedding around 9K , I don't know they pulled it off but it was nice! I think most of it was all of us pitching in to help decorate and whatnot. Everyone rented their own tux. And there was no alcohol. There were professional pictures, of the groom's men and bridesmaids but that was it. We brought camera's. But it was FUN! That's the whole point… It's a celebration.
He rationale was something to the effect of: 'I have a child and I plan to have one more with him. Also, I want a house. spending more would cut into our house savings…'
Word.
Weddings are unnecessarily expensive depending on the bride. My fiance isn't as bad the stereotype but she has things she really wants. Me, I just want the day over with so the headache from planning can leave.
I can see $20k on a wedding without flinching. It's supposed to be a once in a lifetime event. I have no problem with making that an amazingly special day. I think the thing is today, many people don't see a wedding as a once in a lifetime thing because divorce and second and third marriages are so common people figure why spend that kind of money when I might be doing this again. It's a different mindset than a generation or two ago when marriage was for life.
http://www.GoonLove.com Goons Need Love Too!
Is it bad if you've never seen Blood Diamond?
I don't need anything flashy. What's the big deal? Diamonds never defined love to me. It never will. I'd rather that money went to something useful. I liked the idea of engraved wedding bands. 🙂
In defense of appraisals (not for the purpose of calculating 3 mos salary), an engagement ring (wedding ring for that matter) is part of your net worth. It should absolutely be appraised for insurance purposes if nothing else.
Agreed. A person who owns a lot real jewelry will tell you all things get appraised to add to the insurance in case of theft, fire, etc.
Now trying to figure out if that's 3 months of his salary is something different…
Um … if I bought the ring and pay the insurance, shouldn't I be the one getting it appraised? Besides, don't I know how much I paid for it?
If you get it insured then there is no need for her to do so. For insurance purposes it's not exactly about how much you spent but how much the ring itself is worth. Those figures are not always the same.
Hmmm…interesting. I haven’t seen Blood Diamonds. Now I’m eager to rent it. I’m thinking about getting tattoo rings when I am married. I’m an artistic and creative person, so I’m looking forward to sketching the design of the ring. Showing him my sketches will be more exciting than incessant shopping trips of picking out the “perfect” ring. Not only that, I have no tattoos and making the decision to get my first tattoo with my future husband is one of many ways of showing him I am ready and serious about being his wife and mother of his children. I think a big rock means “I love you” to women who are shallow and superficial. A man should be buying a diamond for his woman because he wants to, not because he fears hearing her mouth.
I agree with Kushite on the idea of weddings. Weddings are one of the biggest ways to waste time and money. I’d rather put that money on our honeymoon, renovations/additions to our house, various getaways and our children’s future. I’m definitely not having a wedding because I want our money to go towards these things. Hopefully my future husband will have this same mindset.
Not a fan of tattoos myself. Imagine how it would look at age 60.
I think the manner of proposal is something Id care more about rather than the ring.
My friends bf (now husband) pulled out a giant rock one night and said "well, how about it?". Classy. Great story for the future kids.
"Not a fan of tattoos myself. Imagine how it would look at age 60."
If it's of your husband's name, it'll probably look like him….old and wrinkled.
THIS. i want a tattoo ring too.
and even if it isn't a ring, just some very very small matching tattoo that symbolizes our Usness. i am not a fan of diamonds at all, so i'd care not.
Co-sign on the tatt ring… even if I do get a regular jawn I sill want the tatt ring.
I've been engaged for 6 months now and my fiance found out the size of her diamond about a month ago. Thankfully she was satisfied with the ring even though its not what she thought she wanted before we got engaged.
I've always said that of a women complains about her engagement ring, other than it not fitting, doesn't deserve to get engaged. Why? Because youre an ungrateful harlot!
I'm definitely not measuring myself off of the size of the eing I purchased. I refused to go into debt for it and saved for a few months and got something practical.
"Because youre an ungrateful harlot!"
Lol @ harlot. Haven't heard someone use it in a while.
I may not complain. I may not have it appraised. I may not even say no if it's a horrible ring. But I want my diamond dangit. Fcuk what people think. I suspect that any man wanting (willing, able) to marry me will know this and act appropriately.
🙂
So, I've been MIA….school, work, and everything else….
But anyways, I want a stupid-a55, gigantic, beautiful, multi-colored diamond/stone as my ring.
I understand that I may marry someone who won't be able to afford it initially, but together we will eventually.
I don't care if what anyone thinks; I want what I want, and I so happen want my left hand to be slightly heavier due old, sparkling rocks.
So I don't know if a rock symbolizes his love for me; I sort of hope it goes deeper than that. I just know that's what I want. Point blank.
Work together to get it?
I just don't get that. With so many important things that a couple needs to work to pay for (kid's tuition, new house, life insurance) … a big and sparkly ring seems like such a waste. Especially since he gets nothing out of it and its just a one sided purchase.
I'm not saying its the first thing on my list. Anyone who knows me knows that it doesn't take much to make me smile and that my priorities are in line. I'm simply stating what I want. There are indeed other things that are important and will be acquired. So, the fact that I want a huge ring from my husband is indeed okay. There are things he'll want from me, and I'll be sure to deliver…
…it ain't that deep. Just what I want
*Cowers in a corner…* I'm glad you know what you want
mwahahaha. No need to cower. I think people assume that you have to have one (a diamond) or another (the house payment) but in my world I get both. I saw my parents have it all and now I'm working to get it. I don't think it necessarily has to fall in "it aint trickin if you got it" theory but I don't think that's a sacrifice/ choice the hubby and I need to be making.
Yea, people are like it's my child's education versus diamonds. What's wrong with having it all?
To be honest with you… I've never been one to think all that much about my ring or what my wedding would look like.
I tend to like simplistic things… so I wouldn't want my guy to spend a lot of money on a ring anyway. It wouldn't really fit my style to be walking around with a HUGE rock on my finger.
I've always just wanted to go the the courthouse… and the spend money on a really nice honey moon. Or maybe have a small destination wedding with just our parents…
People place way too much importance on superficial things that aren't going to help in regards to making the marriage last.
I think when a man is ready to get married he should discuss the ring choices with his mate and the price range…there is nothing wrong with that…that way both of you are happy with the ring..most women if they truly love you aren't going to give you too much static if you say you can't afford the big rock…they just want somthing on their finger to symbolize your love and the engagement…..
thatisall
In a perfect world I could say "I feel comfortable with spending $800 on a ring because of blah blah blah" and she would look into my eyes and tell me that love is all that matters. Then we would kiss and be married.
I think if you even tried to put it in a movie, you would never make it as the actors keep dying of laughter.
Had a friend who was "dating" a woman who'd been previously engaged three times to three different men. So one day when riding in the car, I asked her the following:
Me: "So each time someone proposed they bought you an engagement ring?"
Her: "Of course, why wouldn't they?"
Me: "So each time it didn't work out, you gave the rings back, right?"
Her [and several other women in the car]: >:0[
Me: 0_o
Eddie Brock: "Me: “So each time someone proposed they bought you an engagement ring?”
Her: “Of course, why wouldn’t they?”
Me: “So each time it didn’t work out, you gave the rings back, right?”
Her [and several other women in the car]: >:0[
Me: 0_o"
Instead of the blank stare, you should have shook your head and said, "selfish b!tches". I bet she was the type of woman that insisted on the three-month salary rule too.
Meh, wasn't my car and I wasn't driving. If I'm getting a ride from someone, I usually: a) won't start any unnecessary arguements and b) won't touch the radio.
My friend was just stringing her along to hit it anyways. Even had her kids convinced he was going to be their new Daddy. ( -_- )
the rule about ring return as defined by law in regards to the ring being a gift symbolizing the promise to marry:
1) if the engagement is broken mutually, the woman returns the ring (but when does this happen)
2) if the engagement is broken by the female i.e. she changes her mind, she cheats, she decides to join a convent etc, she is supposed to return the ring
3) if the engagement is broken by the man, i.e. he cheats, he realizes he's gay, he doesn't love her etc.. the woman may give the ring back but she does NOT have to because he broke the promise
I "know" a ring keeper and sometimes there are other reasons. Perhaps he never wanted ti back or perhaps they thought they would work it out eventually. Don't rush to judge!
Yeah, I think what matters to me is not so much the size (though I don't wanna be roasted by Joan Rivers like Kevin Costner's fiancee [at the time] was… hell, I think he bought her a bigger ring after that…ok, just jokes… or is it? 😉 ), but since it's a gift I think what matters more is the time he takes to pick out a ring he'd feel I'd like. Even if it was a huge ring, if he didn't put much thought into it and is just trying to show off as much as the chick would, it doesn't really matter, IMO.
I wouldn't say I'd hold off the engagement for a bigger/better ring either way, though…
Word!
I want the ring to be reflective of me. Something that fits me. A big ole rock would look stupid on my thin fingers. And I don't wear yellow gold. Put some thought into…if you're really lost, ask my BFF or moms.
Suppose someone tells me that the ring that represents her happens to be 3 carats and $30K? If the reason she needs a big ring is because it "matches her personality" … does that make it Ok?
If it matches her personality and his budget, then proceed.
Naw, he doesn't HAVE to get it… if its within his means that's cool. If not, that should be understood as well. Again, it should be about him WANTING to get it, not him having to get it. That's what means the most to me.
Mr. Blackman, I have to thank you once again for enlightening me on this subject about two years ago. I always assumed that you are supposed to pay three months salary for a ring, but never stopped for a second to think about it until I read your post.
When I get married, my woman will have a very nice ring, but I guarantee you, it won't cost three months of my salary. That's just dumb. Using that inane "it means you love her" logic, then why not more? Why not buy a ring that's worth six months, one year, or even five years of your salary, wouldn't that mean you love her even more?
You can get a very, very nice ring for five grand. Jewelry is a bad investment. And a woman who would wait for a proposal so her boyfriend could buy an adequately priced ring deserves to live a life shacked up with her man until the day she dies.
"Am I thinking too much into this? Are diamonds still considered the universal sign for everlasting love? Why might I be wrong (I’m not) … why does that rock mean “I love you”
I went with my husband to pick out our wedding bands, but he had his nieces help him pick out my engagement ring and I am very happy with it. I am not a flashy person at all. I was just happy to see that he actually took the time to get another opinion about something like that. I would have been just as happy with bands only though. If he had proposed without one, I would have graciously accepted.
I don’t feel as if diamond means everlasting love. People with money give them out like candy to jump-offs.
HOWEVER, I do understand that some women need that in order to feel appreciated and loved. And…to show off to the people around them. Also, when you tell ppl you are engaged, the first thing they look at is your ring finger–men and women.
I saw the movie Blood Diamond, but that just confirmed for me that certain things are just not that necessary in life. We go to stores to buy all sort of things made in sweatshops and never think about it.
I would rather that money be invested in some commercial property for the family instead, that would mean you love me AND your financially savvy.
Lastly, my worth cannot be determined by anything tangible anyway. Don’t get me wrong, I like nice things, I just know that those things come and go and are just trinkets in the grand scheme of things.
Just out of curiousity, as a Male who may be forced to buy one of these pieces of highly abundant compressed pencil lead in the future….
What do I get in return, is there an engagement gift for men? (If you say the woman's everlasting love, go kill yaself)
Do I get to sleep with one of your best friends?
This seems like a very one-sided deal.
WTH?
YOU GETS NOTHING! Naw, seriously, you get a woman that will ultimately give her body to you. She will be the one carrying a heavy load (i.e. pregnancy, breastfeeding, etc.). CAN YOU DO THAT! Thought not. Men and women should be treated fairly, yes, but our functions are NOT the same.
We serve different purposes and therefore our advantages and disadvantages will be different DeKeLa.
Women stand to lose A LOT when they marry, this is why the courts and people in general understand that women deserve something above and beyond what men get. Men and women should not get apples to apples ever; it just will not be fair. We don't have to rehash the reason why, do we?
Stop the nonsense.
I get to provide for the family, be the protector of all and risk my safety at a moments notice. Be your support, deal with your crazy mood swings, keep a cool logical head at all times, defer my wants and needs for the benefit of us, turn down all temptations and keep naysayers out of our business, while putting up half of my estate on the chopping block and rights to my kids on the line if things go sour?
I have to do all of this, and I have to PAY for this priviledge?
f that, I want your friend AND your sister..
or at least a nice 'Breitling for Bentley' to add to the collection.
@ DeKeLa
"I get to provide for the family, be the protector of all and risk my safety at a moments notice. Be your support, deal with your crazy mood swings, keep a cool logical head at all times, defer my wants and needs for the benefit of us, turn down all temptations and keep naysayers out of our business, while putting up half of my estate on the chopping block and rights to my kids on the line if things go sour"
DeKeLa, so your wife doesn't have to hold down the fort while you are out (protection), be your support, deal with your mood swings, keep a cool and logical head, defer her wants and needs for the benefit of the family, turn down dudes tryna holla and keep naysayers out of the business while putting half her estate AND her body on the chopping block if things go sour? (a body–something irreplaceable btw)?
I would love to see your list of what you think a wife actually does bring to the table (great post idea).
@ Beef Bacon
I 100% agree with you on the items you listed..
The difference being, I gave you a (damn expensive) gift to have that experience, and in return I got a "yes".
Do you see the point I'm trying to make?
The world is full of double standards, some work out better for others.
"The difference being, I gave you a (damn expensive) gift to have that experience, and in return I got a “yes”.
Do you see the point I’m trying to make"
Nope. I don't see your point because you are failing to look at the bigger picture here.
Maybe it is because men today don't value WIVES today as much as they should. Being an actual SPOUSE today isn't really seen as something great anymore. This is why men don't really understand what a GOOD wife would bring to the table.
You can't compare what you have been experiencing in gf/bf relationships to being married. And unless you are married you have NO IDEA what I speak of. Something divine and ordained is not comparable to playing house with someone (another topic). Therefore, my "yes" comes with more return than you know.
I call swindle, my delicious friend. Men stand to lose more in marriage, which is why we are the ones hesitant to do it in the first place. And blame Eve for your breastfeeding and pregnancy, not us!
My dad has a nice wedding ring. I plan on getting the same, or receive some other gift of equal value.
"And blame Eve for your breastfeeding and pregnancy, not us!"
Men have blamed women for their issues since the beginning of time. It's not my fault some of you put the p***** on a pedestal and don't know how to man up and take charge. It has been happening all throughout history, men falling victim to the nani. If Adam had said NO–we wouldn’t have to deal with that…but NOOOOOOOO…he was whipped.
If I give you a gun and tell you to shoot yourself—would you do it? Same logic. Since men are considered the head of the household—they are ultimately supposed to put the final stamp of approval on all things. Tell your boys you let your wife talk you into doing something crazy and see how they clown you.
Now, onto your comment about your father's ring. Yes, you should expect a nice wedding ring. Things are different before you say I do though as they should be.
This post is about buying an engagement ring—which is STILL prior to actually taking those vows.
Hold on, my bacon burger dog (shout out to Theo and Cockroach):
You said women “stand to lose A LOT when they marry”, I said men lose more. So this doesn’t explain why women should get a ring, and in fact argues the opposite.
Then you argued women deserve walking around with a quarter of a year’s salary on their finger because women get pregnant, and assigned that blame to men. But that’s not our fault, so you are saying men should pay for something in which we have no culpability. If you want to appeal to a biological argument, then men bear the burden of dying before women, the ultimate price for being a man, then having our life insurance take care of you after death. I would argue death is a larger burden than pregnancy, but I guess that’s debatable. Point is, biological functions doesn’t justify women getting a huge ring, and men just getting a “yes” (as DeKeLa said).
Again, swindle. Your gun analogy and historical tirade of men blaming women for their problems are simply debris from your response not applying to the original argument.
"Then you argued women deserve walking around with a quarter of a year’s salary on their finger because women get pregnant, and assigned that blame to men. "
I never said anything about a year's salary.
You say men bear the burden of death…I call your bluff because men AND women die…but only women have babies.
"I never said anything about a year’s salary.
Neither did I, I said a quarter of a year's salary.
"You say men bear the burden of death…I call your bluff because men AND women die…but only women have babies."
True, but the point still stands. Again, my woman will have a nice ring that she will not be ashamed to show. But that can be done with less than three-months salary.
"Women stand to lose A LOT when they marry, this is why the courts and people in general understand that women deserve something above and beyond what men get."
Back up. What exactly do women lose when they marry?
"Men and women should not get apples to apples ever; it just will not be fair."
So, would this mean that equality…is not fair?
"Back up. What exactly do women lose when they marry?"
I can't go there anymore. And it’s a wonder why women initiate most of the divorces filed? Why do you think it is even said if a man finds a wife he finds a good thing…was it the other way around…nope…and that is for a reason…trust me. A GOOD wife adds value/life to her husband.
No other woman may want to admit it, but I AM A BEAST IN MY HOUSEHOLD…and I know this and so does my husband.
"So, would this mean that equality…is not fair?"
Equality means different things to different people Jupiter. You pee with the seat up, I do not, yet we still have to use the restroom. What would be unfair is if I had to use the restroom with the seat up JUST because I am a woman. Equality to me would mean the opposite of what you need yet still very equal to me…see?
Apples to apples comparison for men and women don't work logically. Not even ideally.
Women and men are NOT the same and we don't want/expect the same things/treatment in all scenarios. That is a silly thought that people are going after and it will NEVER be.
@Beef Bacon (I actually like Salty Turkey Bacon, BTW)
YOU ARE OFF THE MEATRACK…
But I believe women like you are a small minority (these are the type that make reality TV shows)… I know I don't you & I respect THAT…
But anytime I hear a woman expecting ANYTHING monetary, materialistic from a man… I go into my (poor excuse of a) pimp/ass*hole mode…
I just like my women 80/20 (Substance/Shallow), maybe 90/10…
I'm glad you & your husband match-up well… That is sacred & there are some VERY WEIRD human relationships out there…
@ Adonis
"But I believe women like you are a small minority (these are the type that make reality TV shows)… I know I don’t you & I respect THAT"
You are right you don't know me and I am the FURTHEST thing from a reality tv show person…those people don't even exist….it's television.
I am nowhere near shallow. And if you think buying your future wife a ring is shallow…well…..sucks to be you when you do get married because that ring is JUST the beginning.
We are talking about a man buying woman an engagement ring. I don't expect anything…if you read ALL of my comments you would know this.
Some of the ppl on here started asking why should I buy a ring and I give my opinions. I gave my opinions on THAT. However as I have said many time before the ring/ceremony mean NOTHING if commitment isn’t behind it (no matter how big or small the rock is).
RESPECT…
I'll just continue to develop other parts of my game… so buying a ring could be EXTREMELY optional…
Lots of women give wedding gifts just before or just after the wedding. A really nice watch – one comparable to the price of the ring is not a bad idea.
lol @Dekala. I feel like this is a loaded question but to Most's point I have heard that lately a lot more women give nice gifts, a watch is usually at the top.
I dont wear watches but if my wife (to be) got me one, I'd rock it.
My late grandmother had a saying about women giving watches to men…."That girl gave that boy a watch and time is ticking away" (meaning its a matter of time before its over. Cue John Legend "Its over")lol.
I'm going to have to lay my extra X chromosome on the chopping block here.
I'm not saying that he can have something extra extravagant but if women wanna stand up scream independent, etc. then the man deserves to get something. I KNOW what I'm getting for my anniversary and I'm thinking he might get a tv. Not to match up BUT he deserves it just like I deserve what I'm getting.
Yes, down the line we will give you children and blah blah blah but you will also keep a roof over our heads while we are at home with said children.
I just don't think men should get to give, give, give and women just take (materially especially). We need to get off that bull,
@ Jaci
"I just don’t think men should get to give, give, give and women just take (materially especially). We need to get off that bull"
You call it bull, I call it being a woman. I am able to take care of myself financially. I am not one of those women walking around screaming 'I'm independent". I am very traditional (other than wanting to work) and that seems to work for my household. My husband doesn't even care about me buying him things. He constantly tells me his happiness comes from making his family happy and how I treat him
He likes it more when I cater to him as opposed to buying him anything…but that's just my man.
What we both buy comes out of OUR HOUSELHOLD so at the end of the day what I spend he is spending as well. I still enjoyed surprising him with the NFL Ticket, but than right after I say surprise he says…how much did this cost while eating and watching the game…lol.
Once I got married, the little things matter more.
This article is about BEFORE saying 'I do'. No comparison.
There is not a comparison per se. What I am saying is why is it that during courtship, engagement, etc. the man has to bear the majority of this? IF you have thought enough of me to choose me as your life mate, why would I not want to give you something? Be that a tv, a watch, a weekend away?
And at this point, it's not a question of "How much did this cost?" just like when the ice slides down a woman's hand that it shouldn't be her first thought… if even the top five. It's a matter of appreciation, gratitude and awe…
At this point, all the checking accounts I have have MY name on them. I can wager that he doesn't even know ALL my accounts but what he does know is… no matter what even though she's NOT my wife, she has my back and she'll insure I have nice things just like I do for her.
Tradition or not… Independent or not… Men are human too. When you get right down to it they need and want the same stuff we need and want just not in the form of diamonds and lacy sh!t. I want a diamond, he wants a 32 inch for the bedroom.
Call me Ms. I Got It, plain and simple.
"What I am saying is why is it that during courtship, engagement, etc. the man has to bear the majority of this? "
I think there is a misunderstanding here. I am not saying that I won't buy my husband anything. And yes, I have in fact brought a guy or two that was NOT my husband gifts. What I am saying is–when a man proposes and buys ME a ring; I am not going to run out and start looking for something to buy HIM just because of THAT.
Just because, anniversary and b-day gifts are not what this post is about, so you lost me there. I do this for my family because I love them.
The engagement ring symbolizes his willingness to commit to me. To that, I say thanks and yes (maybe). What more am I supposed to do? My answer and my reaction will be enough for him, if not than he has issues anyway.
You call it a burden, I call it his right. He chooses to by the ring and propose. I am not in a competition with him to see who can buy whom more. Furthermore, I don't expect ANY man to bear the burden of buying me anything. If and when he does, that's because he wants to though, not because of what I will give him in return.
Do you accept gifts feeling as if you have to return the favor?
@ Jaci, your comment gives me hope for women out there….
BB, I love you like a fat kid love McNuggets (I do enjoy their taste) but you really lucked out. If it works for you, then by all means continue it.
@DeKeLa
It has cost me a many arguing day on this blog RIGHT here. I just feel like women can take it TOO far sometimes with their value, etc.
@Beef Bacon
I'm still with the testosterone ones here. You may be a beast in your household. I know it (now) and I'm glad your husband knows it. There have been many a women who were absolutely fabulous as wives and mothers who still got left in the dirt thinking all that was enough (see Broderick, Betty). All I'm saying is it is not going to be enough. Like someone else said if it works for you then it works for you. Men need to be valued just as much as women do. Ok, he spends 3k on a nice ring and you tell him yes… He's got to spend a large portion of his life catering to your whims and by giving you said ring he is saying that he is happy to do so but he can't get a damn watch?
I'm seeing little yellow flags all over the place on this. I don't care if it's before he kisses the bride or not.
@ Jaci
You are taking what I am saying and twisting it. What does Betty Broderick have to do with anything? You cannot be responding to what I wrote because you are missing my entire point.
When did I say being a beast in my household means I don't have to buy him anything…NEVER…I wasn’t even talking to you in that comment so how does that comment to someone else apply to what you and I were discussing? It doesn’t.
I was making a point about what a wife brings to the table. That has NOTHING to do with what I do or don't buy him…nothing. I am not worried about being left in the dirt. smh. I have always said my counsel comes from people with much experience in where I want to be. You are just beginning on your journey….you need experience. Nothing wrong with that…it’s just the truth.
"Men need to be valued just as much as women do"
And this value is shown in buying him things? smh. Hmmm…let me know how that works out for you.
Yes, I am sure I COULD have brought the man a watch, but I didn't… and it is not the end of the world and it wouldn't have been if he didn't have ring to propose to me.
You are taking what I am saying and twisting it. What does Betty Broderick have to do with anything? You cannot be responding to what I wrote because you are missing my entire point.
She was a beast in her household too. Had so much value to her husband that when he finished making a career off of her back, he left her for a younger model. She then beasted her car from through his front door and a bullet through his head. All that stuff is great but is being Jane Cleaver all it takes?
I was making a point about what a wife brings to the table. That has NOTHING to do with what I do or don’t buy him…nothing. I am not worried about being left in the dirt. smh. I have always said my counsel comes from people with much experience in where I want to be. You are just beginning on your journey….you need experience. Nothing wrong with that…it’s just the truth.
I've got enough under my belt to know that it being a man's right to court me, buy me a rock and simply be grateful for my yes doesn't so much fly. Your husband is a good one but I'm seeing it right here for the horse's mouth. They'd appreciate something even if if was just a letter or a card or a daggone watch.
“Men need to be valued just as much as women do”
And this value is shown in buying him things? smh. Hmmm…let me know how that works out for you.
I don't buy a lot but I hear he feels like a king. If and when I do buy something it's always something nice and fairly comparable to the things that he gives me. Not to be in competition but because he thinks I deserve the best and well… he deserves the best too.
It's an equality thing…
"I’ve got enough under my belt to know that it being a man’s right to court me, buy me a rock and simply be grateful for my yes doesn’t so much fly"
Tell that to the millions of women married that did not buy the man anything for the proposal.
And to your first point…Miss B. B….is not me. June Cleaver is a fictional character. I deal in reality, not reality tv.
This seems like a very one-sided deal.
THAT is because IT IS
<>
You know, i was thinking about this too. i guess i have a ways to go, but as far as i know, dudes don't really get anything equivalent.
but me…i would ask for a purebred English Bulldog.
and that she tattoo my name over her heart.
I would love that new Taylormade R11 Driver http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_W_WmwmuIXso/TS-SuakH4PI… and a round at Augusta National (for that I would change my last name for her.lol )
I think there are a lot more important things to consider when you're planning to propose (or expecting to be proposed to) than the size of the engagement ring. The most important things are making sure your relationship is built on solid ground so that your marriage has the opportunity to last, making sure you and your future wife have a place to live, making sure you know when you want to have children… the list goes on and on and on.
But…
If you've done a pretty good job taking care of all of that stuff, why not get your future wife the most awesome ring you could possibly afford? And why not plan a wedding that encompasses everything you ever dreamed of. I see no problem with any of this.
I think the whole engagement ring tradition is a major swindle and I think every man should decide whether or not he plans to turn a blind eye to it and participate, or, whether they're just boycotting it all together. If you're boycotting all together, then I say, go all the way. Discuss it with your future fiance and come to an agreement around an acceptable alternative to symbolize your love. But if you're gonna buy in to it and actually go get an engagement ring because you know she really wants one… and you have everything else in place… 'mines-well go-head and do it like you doin it for tv.
It's really awkward and embarrassing when a newly engaged woman, who is well adjusted and totally not superficial at all is a still a little self-conscious about her ring. Everyone asks to see it. Everyone! You don't want your wife to be self-conscious like that. It's easy to say you're better than that, or you're not concerned with what other people thing like that, but… I've seen it happen, and it sucks.
now this i can agree with. even though i'd rather have something other than a diamond, if he really puts thought and effort into selecting it and presenting it to me, i will be happy.
but there is the fact that EVERYONE will want to see it. i remember one of my friends getting engaged and she never wanted to show her ring bc our other friend had just gotten a ring like 3 times the size of it. shame.
If you’ve done a pretty good job taking care of all of that stuff, why not get your future wife the most awesome ring you could possibly afford? And why not plan a wedding that encompasses everything you ever dreamed of. I see no problem with any of this.
THIS. FTW!
I got married almost 6 months ago. I have a house, a car and a 401K. My financials are fairly decent. So I have absolutely no shame in saying yes, I wanted a decent wedding (which we paid off in cash) and my husband got me a very nice decently sized diamong ring/wedding band(which he insisted on, mind you. I actually looked at non traditional stones and moissanite).
If you can afford it, then do you. I'm so over society making people feel guilty for wanting to have a wedding (or not have one for that matter). The average pwoman is not like the idiots you see portrayed on Platinum Weddings or Bridezillas.
And if she does act like those chicks on those reality wedding shows, then the man needs to re-evaluate why he is with her in the first place. Reasonable folks don't act like that.
Moissanite FTW!! shh.. don't tell too many people about it though… that's my backup plan
I would suggest however, that you disclose what moissanite is on the front end as opposed to the back end (i.e. after said proposal has taken place).
If you want to see a true definition of a b*&ch see one episode of Platinum Weddings or Bridezillas.
I remember watching one episode with my lil sister and the black girl told her future husband this: "You don't have to show up. I'll get married by myself."
I made a note to myself: "If I ever heard my woman say that to me before our wedding…dueces (http://gifsoup.com/MTY4NTM0NA) (and I'm taking my ring too. Selling it and going on a golf trip in Europe playing all of the courses on the Open Championship rotation (starting with St. Andrews) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Open_Cha…
Cosign this post, which is why Mrs Most has the Rock of Gibraltar on her finger, lol…
I think if you got it, spend it. I'm very much aware of perception.
The way i feel, if I can buy the hottest gadgets, freshest clothes and kix, expensive sporting event and concert tickets, and nicest cars, why not be as lavish on what's supposed to be the most important event (or top 3) in your life with your husband/wife to be? I think it's pretty logical.
I agree with this wholeheartedly. Everyone needs to do what they are comfortable with.
Diamonds really don't bother me. I got married back in 1992 so really the whole DeBeer's scandal was still under wraps at that time. I love my diamond rings. I recently switched my wedding bands from yellow gold to white gold.
I say do what makes you happy. Life is short.
We put value on many many things that are worthless. For example the N word is just a mispronunciation of the color black in Spanish..
We make them worth something. So F it. I will buy her the biggest stupidest rock I can afford, caving to the pressure. If she's practical tho, I will talk her into getting a more affordable yet more gorgeous Moissanite ring. That's called winning at life..
This is the dumbest comment i've ever seen on this site. And that speaks volumes since I read every comment on this site.
You're right Rem. The N word is a mispronunciation that Americans gave meaning to….And you giving in to societal pressures and splurging on a ring is what alot of men do. It's just not practical. Like I said, that's what alot of men do. I wouldn't hurt the pockets like that. Just explain to her if she would rather live comfortably or live pay check to pay check with that big ring on her finger. I've read dumber comments on this site. 😉
Considering the current status of my relationship this post said a lot to me.
I found a ring I liked at Macy's on clearance. My girl gave my sweetie the info and I know he looked because he said "I thought you and all women wanted diamonds."
Now, I like diamonds as much as anyone but I'm an April baby so I got that already. Honestly I just want to be happy. That $800 sapphire is awesome to me. I want the man.
My question is in an age where people have houses but the retirement thing is sketchy is it wrong for me to want like a 401k investment instead of three months salary on my hand?
Ironically, I once had a friend tell me her ring would be almost twenty thousand cause she had calculated his salary…. I still have did difficulty with…. Him for that….
Just my thoughts…
Look meng, if you're gonna go ahead and get married, you might as well get over the ring thing. While the thought of spending several months salary may disgust you, just think of the ring as the first of many things you will spend copious amounts of money on, that you probably wouldn't be spending money on if you were single. A good wedding costs upwards of 45K, babies cost 100K a pop (or substantial amounts of your salary put towards health insurance premiums), houses, repairs to said houses, whips, repairs to said whips, all the random pieces of jewelry/gifts you'll end up buying for b-day's, anniversaries, V-day's, get out of jail free days, and just because days. Even if you marry Oprah, she's gonna expect all these things, and expect you to pay for them out of that allowance she gives you.
Trust me, the further down the line you get, the ring will be the last of your concerns. That is until, her homegirl pops up w/ a bigger ring than hers. Sounds asinine, but if you pull up in a Hyundai sittin on 24's, and your homeboy pulls up in the black on black 6 coupe, are you really gonna feel better about yourself knowing you spent less money and still have that 10 year guarantee on the Sonata? FOH!
RCLS (your name is getting too damn long, lol!): "Sounds asinine, but if you pull up in a Hyundai sittin on 24′s, and your homeboy pulls up in the black on black 6 coupe, are you really gonna feel better about yourself knowing you spent less money and still have that 10 year guarantee on the Sonata?"
Yep.
This is VERY discouraging… reason #15 to not be in rush to get a wife or have kids
Man … F* that.
That argument can be used for damn near any one time decision I ever have to make. Why fight her on where we eat dinner, it doesn't matter. Why do I care if she wants me to get a minivan, in the long run it doesn't matter. Etc … etc.
Besides, this post wasn't just about rings … but specifically the blood diamond that is involved and the nonsense of the whole thing.
I want to find a lady that would appreciate a ring made out of meteor or moon rocks.
I don't know why this is so funny, but it is.
dat inggaz a "temporal physician" Phaa ROFL
I think you should splurge a little on the ring but at the same time spending 3 months salary seems a little stupid for the average person. The average person doesn't have two weeks salary in the bank. To spend over 10Gs on a ring is a little silly.
As far as blood diamonds. Look if you wear diamonds…..you are wearing blood diamonds. I don't care what the jewler told you. There is no way the world demand for diamonds can be satisfied without blood diamonds. So if you think your ish is clean it just means they found a way to clean your ish and get it through customs.
I don’t know how much I can speak on this because I've only gone looking for a ring once, with the woman I was considering giving said ring to. In that instance, we went to the store and she basically told me everything she wanted – like I was a small child – then the plan was we would go our separate ways and whenever I got the ring (there was a little wiggle room) she would act surprised. I actually appreciated this, because like most men, I could care less about the ring and, for that matter, the wedding. Just tell my ass where to stand.
Anyway, when it comes to crap, yes crap, like this I leave it up to the woman. If I'm dating a woman who is material and gets off on this crap, like aforementioned woman, I will buy her the biggest ring I can afford. If the biggest ring I can afford, however, is not big enough for her, she can kick rocks. Literally. I'm not about to put off the engagement to buy a bigger ring. I'll put her ass out before I do that.
If I'm dating a woman who isn’t material, like my most recent X. I'll still buy her a nice ring but I'll be a lot more practical and I know she'll appreciate it anyway. To me, these kind of decisions have to have some kind of merit with the woman you're dating. If you're not big on rings, then you shouldn’t be dating a woman who is because I see this being indicative of many issues you will have down the line.
With all that said, as I've gotten older I am less and less attracted to material women. I feel like this ring discussion is material and women who focus on that are material women. Nothing wrong with that, but they tend not to be my cup of tea. Thus, I would probably not get this far down the line with a woman who is driving me crazy over the size of her ring. Like Right Coast said up above, this is one of many purchases you'll be making. If a woman is willing to eat up 3 months of your salary over a single purchase, imagine what she'll be willing to spend down the road. In my opinion, her priorities in life are clearly evident.
*shrug life*
For the record, who made up the 3 month salary rule? Seems like a bunch of BS.
3 Month salary rule is strictly marketing from the Good Folks over at De Beers Mining Company
I think the fact that this post is about my utter hatred of DeBeers got lost somewhere. Back to the drawing board.
I have a strange memory about somebody expecting a 28k ring.
I think that right there was my FIRST inkling of how asinine that rule is…
1) Why calculate your man's salary just to tell him his lifetime supply of p*ssy is worth that?
2) You can buy a house for LESS.
You know what… I want a diamond, but I wouldn't mind my guy giving me a synthetic/man-made diamond. I actually welcome the idea… maybe I'll bring it up to him.
DiamondNexusLabs.com has the best synthetic diamonds. If you want a truly FLAWLESS diamond, that's the way to go. No blood, no beef…
Did I mention they are a third of the price of regular diamonds? So that means he can buy em and still afford my louboutins 🙂
I've actually done a lot of research into diamond simulants and lab diamonds.
I've used Diamond Nexus Labs before … but there is a little controversy over whether they are just selling cubic zirconias or not.
FYI
The size or cost of the diamond is not a symbol of his love for me. We have all had men that try to shower us with tens of thousands in gifts, in a bid to bed or use you as their arm candy…nothing else. I would not use my engagement ring to measure how much he loves me. I would definitely not want him to hold off on asking me to marry him for a "better" ring.
The thing is, the man I marry has to perform some traditional rites. Those rites might cost a pretty penny. That is why some women in my part of the world prefer just a wedding band. The poor fellow might spend a ton of money paying my bride price and all the other traditional rites (both families benefit). He needs to catch a break somewhere.
WIM or Steele said (I'm paraphrasing), know the woman you are getting married to. If she is not bent on the 3 month salary rule, then be creative, shop around and buy a nice ring on a reasonable budget.
If he has 3 months salary to throw away like that (just my opinion), then we are not compatible.
one of my coworkers has a tattoed ring–she's on her third marriage #awkward. Now wearing a ring on top of that old tat. I like the idea of it but I don't know.
I'd rather have a nice ring than a expensive wedding or super expensive dress to wear at said wedding. When that day is over, that ring will not leave my hand–makes it worth it to me. That's how I look at it. But I'd also probably pay much for FLYYYYY wedding shoes–unless I get married on a beach.
people like what they like. my diamond can be lab created, and not even very big since I have small hands, but I DO want one. I don't wear a lot of jewelry–esp on my hands but I wanna bling when its my time to bling. *shrugs*
Diamonds are precious stones and no matter how many Blood Diamond movies come out, they will still be in demand. I'm aware of the issues. My family got together a few years ago so we would all be on the same page but you'll never know exactly what went into the production of your diamond. Some jewelers follow the laws in honesty, others lie. I haven't bought a diamond in 6 years but that's not to say I won't again. I will expect one from my future husband. Does it have to be big? No. I'm not THAT superficial. I'm also not going to lie and say that I don't care about the size because I do. Overrall, whatever he gets, I would like to look nice on my finger. Is that as important to me as the wedding itself? Absolutely not. I don't want a man to wait to propose because of money or anything superficial. I'm okay with going to the courthouse and having a ceremony at a later date. If he can't afford an engagement ring, fine…a wedding band alone is okay with me.
I don't think you're over-thinking this. More should think about where all of their items come from. Diamonds are not a symbol of love to me. They are status symbols of money.
I agree, Kanye and Hollywood aren't enough to curb our obsession with diamonds, but something has to happen. When I had to sit and listen how DeBeers created all this diamond hysteria out of nothing (no one cared about diamonds in the US back in the 30s … NO ONE) … just made me sick.
Not to stray too far from your original topic [and I agree I hate DeBeers too], but isn't this type of marketing done with most products these days? Fooling us into thinking we HAVE to have certain items?
When we were kids, if you'd have told us that years into the future people would pay for bottled water and carry it around we'd have laughed and went straight to the faucet for a FREE glass. Same with pagers, cell phones, and those women's shoes with the red bottoms. We don't NEED this stuff, but Madison Ave has swindled us into thinking we do.
This guy Eddie said remember when you didn't have to buy bottled water or wear a pager. DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN, you're old.
I remember those times, but at the time, I didn't have to carry water or a pager, because I was a child, maybe even a baby.
"Fooling us into thinking we HAVE to have certain items?"
You are right Eddie. Just as Edward Bernays (Father of PR) was able to change the world as we know with this thinking. He knew that appealing to WHY we want versus why we need would sell more products.
Women didn't start smoking cigs out of nowhere, that dude pulled the wool over everyone's eyes with a simple parade display.
Evil genius.
bottled water is a rip off, and its not good for the environment.
#teamfillupmyownbottles #gogreen the rest of what your talking is crazy tho. just kidding. lol. I hear you.
I guess yall against Valentine's Day too, I mean its not a real Holiday *ducks* of course yall are against it…
*shakes cane at Dr. J
*tells him to pull up his britches and get the f*ck off my lawn!
Yes Eddie, this "isn’t this type of marketing done with most products these days?"…not most but ALL companies market this way.They try to convince you that you need their product to be happy, successful, etc. It's good marketing.
"I guess yall against Valentine’s Day too, I mean its not a real Holiday *ducks* of course yall are against it…"
i actually don't have a problem with Valentine's Day…i see it more as a celebration of love, like how one celebrates their birthday…if it makes sense without explaining it in 20 paragraphs..lol
To be completely honest, I don't know what I'm gonna do should I ever get married. I'm small so Ginormous rock just wouldn't fit my hand (or my personality), I'm not really into diamonds anyway, and even if I were, its hard to fawn over them when you have friends whose lives were directly affected by conflict diamonds.
But the biggest issue would be the fact that I don't wear rings… except on my toes, and couldn't imagine wearing one every day (and I'm scared of needles and wouldn't get a tattoo). So me and the maybe future Mr. Happy Meal would have to figure something out.
Plus don't forget you can swap stones later. People do it all the time.
My problem is with the stone period … not when it gets purchase.
I said f* a diamond … not f* a diamond at first, but then it's ok.
So is it just the stone that troubles you? What if she wants another type of ring thats shares the same expense?
I think most people do not understand the historical importance of the engagement ring. It goes back to the 15th century. And without knowing the importance of the ring because most people just don't study history, i'd urge you to yield to a 600 year old tradition.
For me, I think the ring symbolizes my proposal for her hand in marriage. Even though I doubt a man asks a woman to marry him these days without already knowing that she will in fact say yes. To me, it's important that I give her that respect and show her that I understand that her acceptance of my proposal means something to me. That she didn't have to.
Presentation is everything. Remember the Cosby episode as Dr. Huxtable explained the steak to Theo. I can give you a steak on a trash can lid, or I can prepare it on a plate with a napkin and cutlery. The steak is still a steak. But presentation makes a difference!
In reference to the 3-month, 6-month or 1-month salary, I think I had a mentor who said it this way. Think about it this way, the ring signifies a gift. And your lady is going to know how much of a gift that was.
For example:
Dex works at an investment bank. He makes a base salary of $180,000 a year. So he takes home about $10,000 a month. He buys her a ring for $30,000. Well, Dex also receives a yearly bonus for $500,000. If you buy your wife a $30K engagement ring and rock an Audemar, she's going to call shenanigans.
Lastly, about Blood Diamonds… you've known this was a problem since at LEAST 2006. You people are educated and enlightened, handle your affairs accordingly. You don't need to talk about it, be about it.
Check your facts doc. Quick Wiki search will show you diamond didn't become popular as an engagement thing until around the 1930s. Also, rings themselves weren't really that popular until the 19th century.
Trust me … you've been hustled by the marketing. Wedding rings are not engagement rings … remember that.
You are right… The first ones were actually made of rope but just as other things evolved so did this. lol!
Don't do that…
"The modern Western form of the practice of giving or exchanging engagement rings is traditionally thought to have begun in 1477 when Maximilian I, Holy Roman Emperor, gave Mary of Burgundy a diamond ring as an engagement present."
Never really ends well when people challenge me on history.
Son … finish reading the article.
"Engagement rings didn't become standard in the West until the end of the 19th century, and diamond rings didn't become common until the 1930s."
Just because one person did it a long time ago doesn't mean it became a tradition.
Point … SBM
Be careful The West was also the last to end slavery. Doesn't mean they are the poster for civilization. You could argue that because of the lack of wealth in The West, they never really could afford the engagement or diamond rings.
I propose a truce.
Your original example was from "The West", so if we can't look at the west then your original argument falls to pieces. In addition, the western part of the world is considered the wealthiest half, traditionally. If anyone could afford diamonds, trust me … it was the Western World.
You're digging yourself into a hole now, you might wanna concede.
"Lack of Wealth in the West…"
You're kidding me right?
And has mentioned before, Diamonds are not rare and are artificially value inflated. the cost of a diamond wouldn't be what it is now (in late 1800s dollars) before DeBeers sstablished the Diamond Cartel
Yes, DeKaLa look at those dates. This country was in debt for much of it's history. We fought a war in 1776 and then again in 1812, then our country had a civil war, which caused over 50% of our country to go bankrupt. Following that were the years of reconstruction and then WWI and WWII… at what point before the 1940s, did you think that our country was wealthier than the European nations? Because i'm almost positive that when the Wiki article referred to the Western World it was not talking about England, France or Spain.
Dr. J: "at what point before the 1940s, did you think that our country was wealthier than the European nations? Because i’m almost positive that when the Wiki article referred to the Western World it was not talking about England, France or Spain."
I admit history isn't my strongest subject, but the United States was loaning money to both Great Britian and France, which is one of the factors in causing the Great Depression. Ignoring Wiki, which is often wrong, the following is from Murray Rothbard's book, America's Great Depression:
p. 142: Often the government, when challenged, denied any attempt at dictation over foreign loans. But the State Department admitted several times that it was exercising beneficial control, and admitted it had objected to a number of loans. The most noteworthy ban was on all loans to France, a punishment levied because France was still in debt to the American government.
p 260: Throughout the European crisis, the Federal Reserve, particularly the New York Bank, tried its best to aid the European governments and to prop up unsound credit positions. In mid-July, the executive committee of the New York Bank had an all-day conference with the leaders of J.P. Morgan and Company, and there decided to follow the “lead” of the Bank of International Settlements, the “club” of European central banks. It therefore loaned money to the Reichsbank to purchase German acceptances, and made special loans to other Central Banks to relieve frozen assets there. The New York Federal Reserve loaned, in 1931, $125 million to the Bank of England, $25 million to the German Reichsbank, and smaller amounts to Hungary and Austria. As a result, much frozen assets were shifted, to become burdens to the United States. The Federal Reserve also renewed foreign loans when borrowers failed to pay at maturity.
Yes, this is horribly off-topic.
Just as a point of clarification … Europe is considered part of the Western World. If you talk about the cumulative wealth of Europe and North America (The West) compared to Asian Countries (The East) you will find huge discrepancies favoring the West for most of history.
A bankrupt first world country is still wealthier than almost any 3rd world country. And, most first worlders are in the "West".
Still waiting for that concession. I got a 99.6% in social studies back in Middle School … can't see me son.
Dr. J,
America is still a country in TREMENDOUS debt and is currently fighting two wars and yet…. Diamonds are still being bought.. No difference in the timeframe
America became one of the richest countries after the Second Industrial Revolution where the rapid expansion of machinery,electrification and railway, allowed for faster production of goods and advancements in transportation allowed for goods to be shipped faster cheaper.
Dr J: "Dex works at an investment bank. He makes a base salary of $180,000 a year. So he takes home about $10,000 a month. He buys her a ring for $30,000. Well, Dex also receives a yearly bonus for $500,000. If you buy your wife a $30K engagement ring and rock an Audemar, she’s going to call shenanigans."
She can call whatever the he11 she wants. If I give a woman an engagement ring that costs about the same amount as a freaking Audi A4, and she's ungrateful, I'd send her a$$ packing.
Dearest Hugh,
Don't every try that ish… it would take TOO much to cut off one of your arms and I'm afraid an arm and a leg would be necessary.
Love,
Jaci
I've said this once, i'll say it again. Everyone is more than welcome to have their own list of what they are willing to do and what they are not willing to do when it comes to women. I'm a traditional type of guy, that's who I am, and that works for me. However, I can tell a lot about the women you date, by the way you talk about the way you date the women you date.
*applause*
You make a great point here Dr. J… Inherently speaking, you can also tell a lot about that man by the women he dates.
It's just one of those things.
Dr. J: "However, I can tell a lot about the women you date, by the way you talk about the way you date the women you date."
Yes, you should be able to.
I'm with you on the historical part. Allegedly the earliest uses of an engagement ring was to mark a woman as a man's property which later gave way to a more romantic use.
I guess a ring to mark property is better than a knot on the head from being clubbed.
Why is everybody jumpin on DeBeers? Africa is the most mineral rich place on the Earth. Laws of basic economics say it should be the wealthiest. So why isn't it?……….cause there are about 1000 other companies exploiting Africa every bit as badly as DeBeers.
I'm just sayin the older I get the more I tend to think some things are just the way of the world. We as Americans are so judgemental…..Your average African could care less about a blood diamond….they just tryin to eat like everyone else.
They say Khadaffi is a bad man……..but do you really think his country was ready for democracy 30 years ago.
Sorry for the rant….I'm just feeling less judgmental these days.
"Your average African could care less about a blood diamond….they just tryin to eat like everyone else."
I care because I am sick of some black people allowing others to raid their resources for selfish gain. It is one thing if this was a single situation but it isn't. Blacks (of all nationalities, with few exceptions) have allowed people of foreign soil to ravage them and their goods.
Africa should be the richest continent in the world but it is not because most blacks seem to join IN on self-destruction instead of fighting against it.
The most beautiful palce on earth was given to us and we couldn't even hold that down.
Having resources, and the ability to exploit the resources for financial gain, are two DIFFERENT things…
If you have an unlimited supply of tuna fish in a can, and no can opener (or means to open the can for the smart a$$ out there) and I have the ability to make use of it…
Guess who is going to be richer?
Great point on the riches Africa should have.
I'm going to throw this out there…
I'm open for any/all interpretations. Sometimes, we can't blame everything… well just… read…
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Deute…
i do read french (s/o to being french immersion in canada!)
and it pretty much does say eff a diamond.
i'll say as a wedding planner, that engagement ring isn't the cause for strife, the wedding itself is. most people have never planned something of such importance or spent that much money in one shot (except maybe a down payment on house). i've definitely seen couples that i dont think will last since they were more focused on the wedding than the marriage.
my 2 cents.
The key is to know who you're marrying and why.
@Beef, Is a measure of a woman really what ring she gets? Meaning that, if there was a divorce, all you would need to get out of it is the ring (not even the kids?!?!). I'm not even gonna go any farther with this… You get it. We disagree.
— moves on —
Well… I would by my mother a $5 hat. That doesn't mean her worth to me is the appraisal of that $5 hat. I can by her a $1 million house, but that doesn't mean her worth to me is is the appraisal of that $1 million house.
Frankly, if a person can quantify themselves their worth materialistically then in actually they don't consider themselves really worth that much.
–start rant —
Here's my theory: Engagement rings where thought up by a guy so her could get laid earlier than waiting for the wedding. In fact, my mind's eye says that it was a discussion b/t a guy and his to be bride->
him: "We're to be married soon. I surely wouldn't hurt if we….?"
Her: "only when there's a ring on this finger" (she means wedding band)
Him: (maybe if I get her a ring/band early…)
The wedding ceremony is focused around the exchange of tokens/people. The engagement ring was a ploy to symbolize an early "exchange" on his part. Thus making the lady feel like she didn't have to wait until the wedding since he already has fully put forth his symbol of commitment. In other words, it was to have sex. BUT BEFORE THE RING, women as wives we're quantified to ascertain a dowry. 2 mules, and a some seeds to a apple tree. I'll take her only if she can bring along some goats, some gold coins, h*ll sometimes even a country.
But look at today: I can smash LOOOOOONG before there's even a conversation of marriage. Now the ring is used a symbol to quantity un-quantifiable aspects of a relationship. Now we mostly marry for love (or children). There still exists women and men who quantify themselves and their spouses based on the worth of tokens exchanged. Men, in the past done it to women. Now, women do it to themselves by guiding their relationships based on a materialistic culture. Men are the enablers. That's ridic (on everyone's part).
— end rant —
Typos… ugh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKccr8g1xCU&tr…
Funny…
Eff DeBeers!!
I don't think you're thinking too much. I think as a society, we don't think at all, and we accept things just because it what's always been done. Change can be good. Yes We Can!!! lol.
And I cried the first time I saw Blood Diamond. And that's just a movie. Can you imagine what's really going on over there? smh…
Quel prix pour ces diamants? = What price for those diamonds?…literally…but basically, what u said.
I've always been in the camp of not going bonkers over the cost of engagement ring/wedding. In fact, I'm Seventh-Day Adventist, and although the tradition is DEFINITELY changing, growing up, SDAs simply do not wear any jewelry, married or not! So, engagement ring was out of the question. What was the symbol of "I want to spend the rest of my life with you?"…um, pre-marital counseling and a nice watch (for man and woman).
Now, my generation is changing it up!
I posted this to my FB:
Instead of the traditional weddings, marriages should be made official at the courthouse with close family/friends. Then after ten years of marriage, a renewal of the marriage vows can be had with a big celebration "wedding style." 10 years is the litmus test! So much $ is spent on that one day. Initial investments to a marriage should be toward home/honeymoon/future life.
I got more co-signs than I thought!
i'd a co-sign it too if i knew you on FB…so i'll just settle for co-signing it here…lol
You might have just inspired a whole post with that one …
I gotta #NoSign that. I loved my wedding. Top 5 most fun days in my life. Waiting till 10 years after we'd be married, probably with kids and all that would have completely changed the experience.
I think I might marry a Seven Day Adventist…
Will you marry me Tash,No, Ok *Goes Back To Corner*That Idea is WAVY
I do think its crazy the way some people act. I recently got engaged and was happy with a half cart black diamond ring. It wasn't expensive but I am good with that, for me its what an engagement ring symbolizes. I do like bling but hate all the hype that for a along with it. I will rock a fake rock anyday. same look , lower price, and no one died for it. I also would never put my man thru the whole 3 month salary b.s. I do not believe a person love should have a monetary value assigned to it
One thing I will say about the ring….I know J gave the history of the engagement ring but I think today it symbolizes that a man is serious. I think that is important.
Am I the only one that knows girls that claim to be engaged to a new man every year?
I think a ring lets the world know that you are serious and willing to spend a few bucks. I know that is how older people see it. It's not really the size…..but if a dude can't splurge $300 bucks on a ring for a girl he wants to marry…..I know people from my moms generation would say he's not serious.
Everybody jumpin on Debeers. Did yall realize the slave trade in South American was almost completley driven by coffee.
The US supported dictators in south america to keep fruit in your grocery store and rubber tires on you car.
I'm just sayin…..I don't hear nobody sayin they gonna stop drivin ROFL.
This is a really good post. I think we as a society should think more about where the stuff we buy comes from, and if financially possible try to buy things that are made without hurting anyone (fair trade, organic etc.), including animals, but that's another issue for another time.
Blood Diamonds are one of the easiest things to avoid. You don't buy them every day, you don't need them in your life, so when it comes time to buy one it really isn't hard to make sure you are not enabling slavery and torture of other people by your OWN ACTIONS. Yes there's a lot of exploitation of Africans outside of diamonds (most notably cocoa made into chocolate, you should look that up as well), and no your singular action won't change the world, but at least you're trying. If everyone would do their best, things would change. People are just too selfish.
If my SO would propose to me with a huge diamond he would get booted out quickly, because if you know me you know my stand on things like that. Then again, I feel generally out of the loop on this discussion when guys (and girls) say that a 800 bucks for a ring is way too little, and for me it would be more than enough. I'm very unmaterialistic, and having a wedding is a thing I dread. I don't like being the center of attention but getting married in a court house with no celebration seems like I'm ashamed of it or that we had to do it. So I'm hoping we can commit to each other without getting married.
Blood Diamonds are one of the easiest things to avoid. You don’t buy them every day, you don’t need them in your life.
___________________________
I need my ice so when the spot light hit me in the club I light up like a super nova…..ROFL seriously though
"When the spotlight hit Mitch, he always looked good."
Wood Harris, Paid in Full