7. Priorities: Most men want to get their affairs in order before they get married: college, career advancement, etc. There are simply certain accomplishments men prefer to achieve before marriage. However, I honestly believe black (and minority) men are the worst offenders when it comes to using this as an excuse not to get married.
It’s an excuse because a good woman will work with you to achieve your goals. You don’t need to achieve everything before you get married. In fact, you never will, unless you plan to become goal-less once married. To me, this is the worst and easiest cop out.
6. Finances: This is related to number 7; most of us have debt. It’s a part of life. For whatever reason, black men tend to use this as another excuse not to get married. I get it. You want to bring the minimal amount of baggage to your relationship but if your goal is to be debt free before you ‘put a ring on it,’ you are on a much longer timeline than most women. Besides, if a woman loves you, she likely doesn’t care (unless you have bad credit). This burden doesn’t have to be yours and yours alone. If you love her, marry her, and make a plan. Together.
5. Immaturity: Rather than rehash a topic I feel was thoroughly addressed, if you haven’t already, read I’m Good and Grown. You’re Nuts by Slim Jackson and the associated hyperlinked article.
4. Sex Without Commitment is Too Easy: Slate wrote an article called Sex Is Cheap: Why young men have the upper hand in bed, even when they’re failing in life. Sex has become a ratio of supply and demand. A quote:
“As Baumeister, Vohs, and others have repeatedly shown, on average, men want sex more than women do. Call it sexist, call it whatever you want—the evidence shows it’s true. In one frequently cited study, attractive young researchers separately approached opposite-sex strangers on Florida State University’s campus and proposed casual sex. Three-quarters of the men were game, but not one woman said yes. I know: Women love sex too. But research like this consistently demonstrates that men have a greater and far less discriminating appetite for it. As Baumeister and Vohs note, sex in consensual relationships therefore commences only when women decide it does.
And yet despite the fact that women are holding the sexual purse strings, they aren’t asking for much in return these days—the market “price” of sex is currently very low.”
3. They Don’t Want to: Not all men believe marriage defines them and they are perfectly content never getting married. Society compounds this because when an eligible, good looking, successful bachelor is single people assume it’s by choice. When an eligible, good looking, successful bachelorette is single people assume there’s something wrong with her.
2. Searching for the Perfect Woman: If all the reasons above have been thoroughly addressed and he still hasn’t married you, it’s because he thinks he can do better. This doesn’t mean he’s correct but men tend to have an inflated sense of self. Maybe we had sex with a finer chick than you once in high school or we had a conversation with a woman smarter than you at work or we saw a documentary on the Discovery Channel theorizing that all the finest women are actually in outer space and they love overweight bald guys with small [Richards] and no job.
Even if these “possibilities” only exist in our head, men are going to hold out as long as possible. This is a very stupid reason but I assure you it’s the main reason most men aren’t rushing to get married. The ‘what if’ questions perpetuate the fear of commitment.
Conversely, you’ve been threatening to leave him if he doesn’t marry you for the last half decade and you are no closer to becoming a wife than you are to becoming the princess of Zamunda and yet you remain with him. Please refer back to #4.
1. [Your reason here]: The number one reason is yours. I, of course, can’t speak for you but that’s what the comments are for. Gentlemen, feel free to expand on the six reasons above or add additional reasons you’re not married below. If you’re under 25, I personally give you a pass but then again, one of our writers, The Most Interesting Man In The World, did get married at 22. So what’s your excuse?
Ladies, if you think you can handle the truth, speak now or forever hold your peace.
#Plug: I did my first video blog this week on my personal site, Why Do Black People Love ‘Love Jones?’ Check it out. Constructive feedback welcome.
Clearly the reason why some dudes, if not most dudes, don't get married to these women is simply because of one thing that female pride won't acknowledge and that is simply "HE MAY NOT BE THAT INTO YOU." Point. Blank. Period. We all know when you dig someone, you dig 'em. There aren't any excuses about it. If he isn't married to you, suck it up with the fact that he feels no feelings of that nature when it comes to YOU. Life sucks but don't put on men that something is wrong with them if they don't love YOU they way you love them.
I agree, sometimes theres something about that chicks that says…. i will have random arguments with this girl in the supermarket.
Been there done that
" i will have random arguments with this girl in the supermarket."
LOL. Aren't those arguments just so annoying. O_o
No mention of the biased outdated divorce laws that rape men with no vaseline????? No mention of the baised family court laws?????
I totally agree!!! Until there is some parity in divorce and family law, it will never be attractive for men to marry in the numbers representative of the past. The landscape has changed socially and economically for men and women over the past few years and with that change, women have treated sex, relationships and life with a double-standard that overcompensates for their loss in the past. For example, they scream for equality yet maintain sexist social mores when it favors them. They have eaten their cake and them some. So women need to stop the slander and simply accept some men just aren't into them as they would like. That doesn't make him deficient or immature.
It was mentioned! It was Reason #1…save some punctuation for the rest of us man. <del>Grossly overusing punctuation and caps is MY shtick Rick, you ain't know?!?!?!</del>
Yeah, it makes more sense to create babies out of wedlock that you STILL have to pay for financially and now you have NO control over what happens to THAT money so you STILL complain.
That’s obviously the better option based on the choices a lot of guys are making today. *sarcasm*
For that very reason I don't have any kids, so what are you talking about?
And this is another conversation, but if it's "her body her choice" then isn't SHE the one choosing to give birth to outta wedlock kids?
Some men are choosing to have unprotected sex, but choosing to go raw, and choosing to have kids aren't the same choice. If it was then every woman who've made that choice would be a mother. Be we all know that's not the case due to birth control, abortions, adoptions, and any other avenue that allows women to opt out of parenthood.
"For that very reason I don’t have any kids, so what are you talking about?"
Rick, stop taking things personal. That was a general statement.
"Some men are choosing to have unprotected sex, but choosing to go raw, and choosing to have kids aren’t the same choice"
In what world? Anyone you have sex with protected or not has the potential to become your future baby mama. A decision to not use protection IS consciously making the choice to possibly be a daddy.
But according to your statement,
"And this is another conversation, but if it’s “her body her choice” then isn’t SHE the one choosing to give birth to outta wedlock kids?"
It is all her fault and you were just an innocent bystander right?
PSA: For all you bloggers who want to get women UP IN ARMS, rick just brought up a great point…
Women have all the POST-reproductive rights… (KEEP IT, abortion, adoption) & men have NO say in the matter… (Which I BELIEVE they should…, they helped make the child)
Just puttin' that out there…
"A decision to not use protection IS consciously making the choice to possibly be a daddy. "
Let's apply that logic to women…..
"A decision to not use protection IS consciously making the choice to possibly be a daddy. "
Therefore, according to your statement. You don't agree with adoption, abortion, safe haven laws, etc? You feel that if a woman has sex without protection, she's choosing to be a mother and shouldn't exercise any of her "rights to choose" not to be a mother?
Morning Rick. I dont know you but I didn't mention "divorce" for a few reasons:.
1) If you go into marriage fearing divorce, you probably don't need to be married, especially not to that particular woman. However, such a fear is like saying you're not going to buy a car because one day you might have a wreck. Either buy a safer car (a good woman) or don't drive at all. Marriage does not beget divorce – and while I respect yours or any man's hesitation – people don't get married planning to get divorced.
2) There are plenty of safeguards, beyond making a smart decision about your mate, that if divorce is THAT big of a deal to you that you can take, pre-nup being the most well known but it is not the only one.
3) The material reason I chose not to speak on divorce is because most of the men I hear worrying the most about divorce are, to be honest, broke. I'm not sure what they're worried about losing when they don't have much to offer as far as assets in the first place.
I rarely here rich men talk at length about divorce the way poor men do. Aside from that point, as I said in #2, if you are truly worried there are plenty of legal protections you can take if that is a legitimate concern. If a woman cannot support you or understand your concerns then – as I often say to the women about men – you don't need to be with that woman.
In conclusion, if I was rich – and I am not – I would take the proper steps to protect myself. If the women I loved wasn't supportive of that, then I would not marry her. Point blank period. On the other hand, am I never going to marry a woman I love because maybe one day she might take me for half my shit? No. That's like deciding I'm never going to work because one day my job might fire me.
For the record, while rare, plenty of people get divorced amicably too. Because the law "gives" her half doesn't mean she has to take it…of course, hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
"The material reason I chose not to speak on divorce is because most of the men I hear worrying the most about divorce are, to be honest, broke."
Sheesh…a car, an apartment and a pit bull are not assets.
"a car, an apartment and a pit bull are not assets."
Lmfao. Right. Nobody wants Sheeba but you.
Beef Bacon: "Sheesh…a car, an apartment and a pit bull are not assets."
Why was this statement so funny to me?
"Sheesh…a car, an apartment and a pit bull are not assets."
@Beef Bacon…Are you a man?? If so, you are so on point and I need to get to know you better!!
All these other men are whiny pansies…crying about divorce and women not getting abortions as the reason why the out-of-wedlock birthrate is so high. Pleeeeasse!!
I’m not sure what they’re worried about losing when they don’t have much to offer as far as assets in the first place.
*does victory laps around First SBM Baptist*
"“The material reason I chose not to speak on divorce is because most of the men I hear worrying the most about divorce are, to be honest, broke.”"
Yes!! I think its a cop out just like black men who are not doing anything blaming 'the man'.
If you are so worried about losing in divorce either marry someone who has assets equal to your own or get a prenup so you dont have to worry about her taking your baseball card collection.
ahahahaa ya'll are killin me
"1. Marriage does not beget divorce – and while I respect yours or any man’s hesitation – people don’t get married planning to get divorced."
Yet the divorce rate is 50%. So whether or not you plan for it or not, it should be of concern. If you got in a car accident 50% of the time you drove, you'd think twice about driving.
2. We all know women accept pre-nups with no issue *sarcasm*
3. There's many different levels between rich and broke. And I hear those in the middle speaking about divorce when the marraige convo comes up.
Divorce is a REAL fear that many men have, despite you or anyone Else's acknowledgment of it. So if we'll keep ignoring it as a misnomer, men will continue to just keep it moving, and will eventually stop speaking on the subject all together.
Yet the divorce rate is 50%. So whether or not you plan for it or not, it should be of concern. If you got in a car accident 50% of the time you drove, you’d think twice about driving.
About that number, you do know 75% of statistics are made up 90% of the time, right? Divorce rates are high but there has been much debate around the "50%" number because of the way its calculated. Perhaps the exact rate isnt important, because the rates are high.
2. We all know women accept pre-nups with no issue *sarcasm*
Choose wisely, sir.
3. Divorce is a REAL fear that many men have, despite you or anyone Else’s acknowledgment of it. So if we’ll keep ignoring it as a misnomer, men will continue to just keep it moving, and will eventually stop speaking on the subject all together.
Fair enough. I hope you dont feel like this was an attack on my part, it wasnt. I simply dont agree – but I respect your opinion on the subject.
Cosign this entire comment…
This comment pisses me off… ALOT…
To sum it up… Divorce laws need to change…
Stop the F.UCKING deflections…
I am glad I am broke enough to see the BS… & not blindly creating an estate, only for some ill-intentioned woman to just take it via court order…
I respect a dude how decide to get married despite the F.UCKED up divorce laws… I think you are admirable & courageous… but dumb…
But all these people co-signing on a unfair LAW infuriates me… it is unacceptable…
I understand women who co-sign… because GUESS WHAT, when the marriage goes to sh*t, they get to go in front of a judge & he can grant her some MONETARY & material benefits… (most of the time…)
Tell me to marry someone with equal or more assets is NOT the answer…
Especially when I could just SHACK UP with any particular woman in a "non-common law marriage" state… That is the way to deal with unfair divorce LAWS…
Child support LAWS need to go in the trash too… or at least be severely weakened…
Address those LAWS or family life & marriage will continue to SUFFER, especially among BM & BW …
"I'm not sure what they're worried about losing when they don't have much to offer as far as assets in the first place." Just like the topic of the discussion is about what assets or lack of assets he has, trust this same convo will be playin out in court. And as far as not being concerned if the woman you love takes half your S***, it's guys with attitudes like that, which keeps the ball rolling for biased divorce outcomes. Whether a man has a little or a lot, he'd be a fool not to take what's going on in the courts today into consideration.
Your right! Don’t want to get a** raped in divorce court. Life change and people change. People fall in and out of love everyday for unexpected reasons. Better to be safe than sorry. There is no security in marriage nowadays. For example, if a man cheats the woman gets half of his Sh*t. If the woman cheats she still gets half of his Sh*t. So tell me where is the security in marriage? No wonder men are so afraid to marry. If a man marries and then divorces he can take the best 10 – 15 years of earnings that he accumulated during his life and flush it down the toilet. After a divorce it takes years and years to get all the money back that the man loses! If a woman cant handle being in a serious relationship with me without being married than she is more than welcomed to leave and find someone else.
Dave and rick posted good reasons for the fill in black reason why men dont tie the knot, I've had women go ape sh#t on me because I wouldn't marry them, and they were not even marriage material. And the laws are out dated, I am 28, have my own place,no kids, car, no drama and the freedom to come and go as I please and im happy with that if I go no further, to give that up she has to be extra special dont get me wrong, I would love a wife and kids but I want it done right or not at all im not doin it just to do it, I know my worth as a man and any woman that is a threat to my happiness and my psyche can kick moon rocks
I respect this entire comment. Nothing wrong with wanting to do it right.
the respect is returned in full *bows*
Agreed … I'm in a very similar situation and share your persepctive.
respect to you as well *bows*
How about you wanna do it right/fear of failure. I know I take marriage and relationships very seriously and therefore have passed on potential relationships that I saw no real future in (not that I am a man, or black, but you know…it could apply).
Great post…you all are seriously on a roll. <del>of course. RIGHT when I decide to not blog while at work you all gotta go be brilliant. *shakes fist*</del> I look forward to reading the discussion.
I forgot to mention fear. Actually, I think it was on my original list but I removed it so #1 could be open to interpretation/comments. Still, I think the "fear" is really a combination of all the other factors. Technically, all 6 could have been blogs in themselves but I was too lazy for all that.
Glad you're enjoying the write-ups! *jigs*
8. Either they don't have an example to refer to i.e. possibly growing up in a single parent household or never witnessed anyone sustaining a marriage growing up.
Or trying their damnest to not repeat the same mistakes of their ‘examples’ some behaviors are learned/observed from our parents/upbringing.
Either that or maybe they fear the pressure to live up to the standard their parents set "25+ year marriage still going strong."
7# is such a bad excuse. The right man/woman will help you get to your goals/dreams etc.
If you wait till everything is perfect Id be more worried about whether your SO would stick with you during the bad times or whether theyre only with you cause your life is on point.
Cosign #2 though.
cosign on #7…
I mean I get you would want to have you ducks in a row. But life can change at any time. It would pay to have a woman by your side thats gonna ride for you…
I love the Zamunda reference. How many people actually believe Zamunda is a real place? Good post.
I believe Wakanda is real.
A journey through the male mind…I like this kind of post because I’m fascinated with the way men think. These are great reasons, but most women don’t get it. Two words come to mind when I think of men and marriage: Ready and want. A man will not marry a woman if he’s not ready to marry her. A man will not marry a woman if he does not want to be with her for the rest of his life. Many women waste years of their life being with a man who does not want her, then she throws a fit when she finally admits to herself that he does not want her. Why do women throw these fits? Because they thought he would change his mind as time went on. I’ve scene these scenarios play out over and over again since the age of 15. I have respect for men who are ready to commit and marry a woman they want to be with forever. Okay, I’m done not forever holding my peace. I’m ready to hear the truth…I can handle it…
I completely agree with you. It takes women a while to realize that you can't change a man. If a man says he doesn't want to get married and you do… then its time to move on…
However, what I don't understand is why men will stay with a woman forever when they don't have any desire to marry her and they know that's what she wants…
"However, what I don’t understand is why men will stay with a woman forever when they don’t have any desire to marry her and they know that’s what she wants…"
Selfishness, easiness, consistency, complacency, etc.
Men stay with these women, because they feel like they've stated their peice and let it be known that they won't be around long term or don't plan on marrying her.
Leave it up to her to stop engaging or "allowing" him to come through after the club.
" I’m ready to hear the truth…I can handle it…"
I am sensitive but like I told my friend this morning I would rather someone tell me the truth and hurt my feelings than lie to make me feel good. Don't sell me dreams, just give it to me raw. I'll cry but I will get over it.
"Many women waste years of their life being with a man who does not want her, then she throws a fit when she finally admits to herself that he does not want her. Why do women throw these fits? Because they thought he would change his mind as time went on."
Because SOMETIMES not OFTEN that is exactly what happens, after 10+ years of shacking up, 3 kids, his receding hairline/pot belly The Man realizes his options are now non-existence so he'll put a ring on her finger and have the kids walk them down the aisle.
Really?!? Is that what you'd want? To be his consolation prize instead of his choice? If a man loves you he will let you know it. Not just keep you around until he either finds something better or realizes he has no other options left.
I might be breaking man code here but it has to be said: You cannot outwait a man into marrying you. If he says he doesn't believe in marriage/doesn't want to get married… chances are he just means with you. He's just biding his time with you until he finds what he really wants.
Don't worry you have not broken any man codes, women know all to well what you stated above, it's just that Alot of us refuse to accept it and act accordingly.
But I have seen the consolation proposal/marriage take place. *Shrug*
in the hood we say, "lying like sh*t."
What she said.
Here are my pennies on the subject.
He doesn't think she is ready/she isn't ready. Many women want to GET married but not BE married. I know this kind of places the blame on women but it happens.
#personalstory my fiance broke up with me in 07. We both were slightly talking marriage but in my eyes she was talking about it as if out was a fairy tale. Add the fact that I was possibly looking at it too seriously and you end up with heads bumping. Plus she was just finishing school.
We were apart for a year and a half before giving it another go. During that time we had to relearn each other even though a lot had stayed the same, enough had changed. We got engaged a year after getting back together.
Bottom line: its not as simple as wanting to. Both parties have to be ready.
Great insight! I agree there is a difference between the "getting married" and "being married"…for both men and women.
Sex has always been about Supply and Demand. The only thing is that there's too much supply of sex (what men needs in the trade) to exchange for a very little supply of High Status males (what women want).
Think about it, on the supply axis you find any supplier who can provide the least expensive supply because men diversify their demand to include all women who can provide sex, but on the demand axis you find only High Status men because women only want the top men. The more men like me can find cheaper supplies, the more the suppliers have to compete (like matching the competitors supply or do better), and the lower we will drive the market equilibrium. That's a good thing!!
If i met the right girl tomorrow i would get married on sunday…. well not that soon, but you know what i mean!
I dont have many if any issues with women but my concern is really the longevity of the woman. her content will define how long we can last. I think most people just argue cause they have nothing else inside them to stop them from arguing. being from a single home i want to stay as far away from that if i can. If your empty in the mind then you will argue for just about anything.
I believe a dream woman is one with positive character and depth that it puts a large buffer between this argument and the next.
Does anyone understand what i mean?
"I think most people just argue cause they have nothing else inside them to stop them from arguing."
I agree with this though I'm not sure if we're looking at it from the same point of view. I argue a lot with my twin sister (because we are similar and yet so different, it's mind-boggling), and I decided from an early age that this would be the only relationship where I'd fight. I refuse to be with a man I feel the need to fight with or who feels the need to fight with me. We can disagree, but we don't shout at each other, we are not disrespectful, and we don't keep bringing up things that were once resolved. It doesn't mean I can't talk to him about things he has done wrong or he can't talk to me about things I've done wrong, it just means that we do it with as little malice as possible.
I get what you are saying. I think that people whether they are single or married have to continue to grow and develop as individuals. The majority of my female friends are married and I see that some of them rely on their marriage and children for an identity. That is why they go on and on and on some more about their kids and their husband. These same women rely on their husbands for ALL of their needs and I'm like dang…can't no one person meet all of anybody needs. But I think that some of these traits were there before they got married.
Two thumbs up on this comment!
Just my two pesos: I think a lot of people fall short by trying to fit marriage into a timeline. A close relative, after years of being the butt of spinster jokes, recently tied the knot for the first time at……46.
Now, should she be chastised for waiting for the "right one" or celebrated because she's no longer a member of that dreaded "43% Club"?
Sometimes you have to accept the fact that things won't just magically happen before you hit 30. And you can't beat yourself up if they don't…..
"Sometimes you have to accept the fact that things won’t just magically happen before you hit 30. And you can’t beat yourself up if they don’t….."
I think it would be easier to deal with if we didn't have a biological clock. Men can have healthy kids at 70 so it doesn't matter when they decide to get married. I'm not trying to get married tomorrow but if I'm 46 and I'm not married that means I won't have any kids (biologically speaking) and that's a big deal to me.
Ima be real with you, the only person who was trying to marry a rich old woman was Michael Jackson and he also said that she was like a mother to him. Which explained everything I needed to know about my childhood hero. That's when I started listening to Jimi Hendrix.
Men can wait until they like 70, get married to a goddess, drop a seed and pass. Unless your name is Diahann Carroll ain't nobody checking for you at 75.
Shoutout to Harlem and the BX.
2 cents. Just got into this discussion with this chick how a man keeps promising a woman marriage and 10 yrs later he still isn't married to. Just mentally crossed her out as a prospect sounded too personal. Did tell her you get what you demand from a man. Your reason 7 is no longer valid for any man though I doubt any girl in her "prime" before 30 wants to work with any mon on his lack of finances. And yes #4, sex is readily put out by women to high/alpha and low/beta status men. Why bog to one dish when you have a buffet.
I used to live in the states and divorce was just too easy an excuse so it discouraged me or so I claim. Now living in a country with less of divorce but economic factors make the girls do what they got to do.
Nothing beats a girl you can work with though. Why am I not marries, actually has nothing to do with your 6 above, but sometimes I suppose I do wonder I could do better. When will that better come by, never. There is always a better one around the corner.
Hmmm… Wisdom, I really appreciated the topic of this blog today.
In the last paragraph, you gave out a pass for young unmarried Black men under the age of 25… I agree in theory, but I would like to add something. It doesn't matter how old you are, if a man doesn't have some education/training/skills that allow him to care for a woman and any potential children that may arise, I don't feel he SHOULD get married. And I think most of this demographic would agree with me. Most men who have initiative and drive have reached this point by 25.
I feel men who have reached their first layer of "personal success" (generally, degree, job, money in the bank) are doing themselves a disservice by not seriously considering marriage. While I will not disagree with the fellas taking issue with divorce and child custody laws, I will say- if there is any doubt in your mind that a potential wife would keep you from your kids or take everything you have, she's not the one, homie.
Reality is, our peers of other races have figured out that marriage is a benefit to their success, professionally and financially- but we can't seem to get that.
As a demographic, and by that I mean young, black, and educated, we could all use a reality check on the benefits and reasons why to get married.
"I will say- if there is any doubt in your mind that a potential wife would keep you from your kids or take everything you have, she’s not the one, homie"
Right! That's when doubt turns into an excuse. Realistically, how many brothers have anything to take? I mean, really. Truth be told, more black women have their stuff together more so than the brothers…so…
"Reality is, our peers of other races have figured out that marriage is a benefit to their success, professionally and financially- but we can’t seem to get that."
What you call "excuses" we call "reasons." Regardless what a man's reasons are, they're his. And when a man chooses not to get married and keep it moving, he's looked at as if he's a draft dodger or something. In reference to what BW have in comparison to BM, that's the problem right there. Many BW openly state how they won't even consider a man unless he's financially secure, revealing what ultimately matters to her most. If he knows this in the beginning, why wouldn't divorce outcomes be a concern? I know plenty of men that were doing well UNTIL they got married and lost it in a divorce, which consequently made him less desirable to re-marry because of strains on resources. Rarely hear of all these well to do BW losing anything in divorces.
"While I will not disagree with the fellas taking issue with divorce and child custody laws, I will say- if there is any doubt in your mind that a potential wife would keep you from your kids or take everything you have, she’s not the one, homie."
In other words, #cosign.
"Reality is, our peers of other races have figured out that marriage is a benefit to their success, professionally and financially- but we can’t seem to get that."
I've been saying this to my girls and no one seems to get it!!!
"Reality is, our peers of other races have figured out that marriage is a benefit to their success, professionally and financially- but we can’t seem to get that."
I wonder if we ever will.
It's funny how you have a degree, and a job.. next thing on the list becomes marriage. It takes a lot more than career advancement, and educational progression to consider oneself ready for marriage. If you're not prepared Mentally, Emotionally, Morally,… You're not really fit for marriage.
I co-sign on that!!
I agree with you wholeheartedly. No other race looks at marriage so negatively. Other races really do seem to “get it”. Marriage is work, but it is ultimately about building wealth and a legacy for your children. I have said this for years – take 10 American men all 35 years old of varied race (black, white, Latino, Asian, Indian, etc.) and hold all of the following equal for each of them: level of education, family background, home ownership, annual income, and religion. I’d bet everything I have that the lowest marriage rate will be among the black men.
Why do struggle with marriage? Because we have been culturally conditioned to be suspicious of one another. Black men have been conditioned to believe black women are only interested in what they have materially. Black women have been conditioned to believe black men aren’t going to stick around anyway. As soon as life gets complicated or a seemingly “better” woman comes along, he’s gone. It’s disheartening to say the least.
Okay, WIM, why you gotta go and post an article like this on a day I have to be at work early? lol I think I have to cosign a few of the comments as well. Especially Animate's "Many women are ready to GET married, but not BE married." And to piggy back on Rick and Dave, one would be remiss to not mention the unfair "female bias" in the divorce/family court system. As much as I hate to admit it, one of last things that keeps me single is the fear that I'm being viewed as a walking dollar sign. Which just naturally leads to the dreaded p-word. No, not THAT word. Pre-nup.
I've had this conversation many times with different people (and I honestly don't know if it's something I'd truly pursue, but it is a thought) and I've noticed while most men will entertain the idea usually it's the women that get the most upset by it. Which ultimately makes a lot of guys MORE hesitant when they hear women blast the idea.
Now before I get rung over the coals, let me finish. #NoKanye I think there are many other reasons women are typically ready for marriage before men that aren't financial. The #1 reason though, is women are much better at testing men than we are of women. Meaning, when a woman starts dating a man and thinks he might be more than just someone to wear her back out on occasion, she is much better at finding out whether the man he's portraying himself as and the man he actually is, are one and the same. Us men, on the other hand… well never be amazed at how much cup size and waist-to-hip ratio can void the warranty on a man's brain.
Man, so much more to say, but I really have to ride out. As you were.
Its not so much about testing than its about the ability for women to put up with a lot more BS than men…i think our tendency to forgive even the most insulting stuff men keeps us going and getting married to that guy who used to whop us while dating..all in the guise he will change.
"I’ve noticed while most men will entertain the idea usually it’s the women that get the most upset by it. Which ultimately makes a lot of guys MORE hesitant when they hear women blast the idea. "
UNLESS, it's the woman who has far more and is in the position to lose half. Then magically, pre-nups make all the sense in the world to women.
It's all true….I don't have a thing to add. I am just going to lay back in the cut and observe.
However, I am going to go now…and view your video blog on Love Jones….
This is a good jawn. I know that's what she said. Oh yeah, and pause.
Numbers 7 and 6 may be reasons that men use, but I think they're valid. I think I said it in the post you linked to. But yeah, nobody else can tell me when I'm ready. If I wanna have zero debt or if I have things I wanna accomplish, then that's what I'm gonna do and nobody can tell me otherwise. The difference for me is that the woman would know this upfront and it wouldn't come as a surprise years down the road when she was wondering why her ring finger felt so light.
I totally agree. Being honest and upfront is the best way to go.
I don't disagree with you or your position, but at the same time, I think that's easier to say and do when you haven't met the one.
So, you could meet the right woman before you meet all your individual goals, never want to possibly lose her, and change your mind about all of this "waiting."
I don't know you so idk but wanted to throw that out there.
I must say, as a single, educated, professional male, you did hit on some valid points. I must add to #7 and say that not all women will be supportive. I decided to go back to graduate school and was working full time, which gave me little free time to spend with my ex. She complained and complained saying I was spending more time during school work and not enough time with her. The point I am trying to make is, you would think women would be supportive if their mate is trying to better themselves, but it's not the case all the time.
"you would think women would be supportive if their mate is trying to better themselves, but it’s not the case all the time."
Sad but true…
~Selfish is reason #1
~Insecure with the relationship is #2
and possibly a combo of both.
Not all women are like that. There are many women that will support her man while he's in school and give him all the time he needs to do his work. While simply just asking that he doesn't forget that she was their for him or him in turn break up with her because he needs to focus on his studies (when she wasn't hindering his studies in the first place)
I agree…but the same can be said about men. I say that to say perhaps it was the wrong woman. When you find the woman or man for you, they will support you and your vision/dreams.
Yeah when I got my first real job after college I spent a lot of hours in the office and on the road. All the ex did was complain.
I'm takin a graduate class now and that joint has erased my personal life and free time. Can't imagine many women sticking around for that. But of course they all want a man with a masters LOL Go figure.
So many comments here, but this one I'm particularly sensitive to (I think) because I'm currently better than friends with a dude in grad school. I agree that the right woman will understand the time constraint issue. HOWEVER, I think that's the case with folks who work looong hours too. I just think that grad students get a little less patience and understanding thrown their way because they're asking for the other person to deal with time constraints AND a limited budget. But to speak to the original post, if I can sense that I'm not a priority… that yeah, he has limited time and/or funds but chooses NOT to spend a little bit of the little bit of both that he has on me… then this isn't going anywhere. Period.
And I really think that's the core of why men don't get married. It's kinda like buying a house. No advisor on GOD's green earth would advise anyone to buy a house if they're not sure they're going to be there for at least 5, hell maybe 10 years. Similarly, I just don't see a man who doesn't know exactly where he's going to be 5 years from now (okay that may be an arbitrary number) or so happily committing himself to marriage.
WIM… WIM… WIM…
Lemme tell you how I danced all over this post! Whew lawd, I feel like you eavesdropped on conversation I had last night at the bar.
And your no. 7?! *drops entire wallet in the collection plate*
"It’s an excuse because a good woman will work with you to achieve your goals. You don’t need to achieve everything before you get married. In fact, you never will, unless you plan to become goal-less once married. To me, this is the worst and easiest cop out."
This. Right. Here. Is thetruth.com!
I don't know if I'm high off this point but this is a great post.
Furthermore, what may be needed in order to achieve those goals is a good woman. Some men really underestimate the motivations a good woman gives her husband.
Barack didn't become president BEFORE Michelle became his wife.
That reminds me of a joke said at my last graduation ceremony:
Michelle and Barack go to a gas station and Michelle notices that an ex boyfriend was the gas station attendant. Barack said 'aren't you glad you didn't marry him'. Michelle said 'if I had married him, HE would be the president.'
Something like that
I like that joke. I might use that lol
I definitely agree with you. A good woman will help her husband/man accomplish his goals. A bad one will only weigh him down.
File this joke under "Woman Taking Too Much Credit For Something She Had Little To Do With."
Ok Hugh, that's not fair. They had been married over 15 years before he became president. If she wasn't a supportive, motivating wife, trust me, he would be not be the president OR she wouldn't be his wife.
That is a goal they reached TOGETHER.
"Ok Hugh, that’s not fair. They had been married over 15 years before he became president. If she wasn’t a supportive, motivating wife, trust me, he would be not be the president OR she wouldn’t be his wife.
That is a goal they reached TOGETHER.
"I'm cockin' my head back like I'm Ed Lover, c'mon son!"
So despite his education and intelligence, Michelle played that much of a crucial role in him becoming president? Or the other half of the joke: she could have took this other dude who was a gas station attendant, and made him into the leader of the free world by simply marrying him? We don't believe you, you need more people!
Yes, having a supporting wife is priceless, but let's not get carried away here.
It's a joke Hugh…lol. I see you not wanting to give credit where credit is due….
"So despite his education and intelligence, Michelle played that much of a crucial role in him becoming president?"
Ummmm, yes. How many college educated, intelligent people exist that don't have a clue? Education and intelligence are great, but determination and motivation wins more races. Nothing pushes you more like a good woman…nothing!
So having a wife makes the difference between being a gas station attendant and being President of the United States? Let me propose to my girlfriend tonight!
@Hugh Jazz and @Streetz:
*fits of muffled laughter*
you caught that too? it's like men are only successful when women are in the picture…
So y' all took it there?
If the shoe was on the other foot I wouldn't yell independent woman. When in a relationship I love it when my man supports me, that helps me be successful as well. Heck, I need it. From washing the dishes to providing insight on ways that I can improve in different areas of my life, I appreciate it all. The same way it's great to have a woman support a man it's the same vice versa.
And it goes both ways. I surveyed all the single presidents and they agree.
It's not a man/woman thing, it's a human thing. We perform better with an audience.
Michelle and Barack go to a gas station and Michelle notices that an ex boyfriend was the gas station attendant. Barack said ‘aren’t you glad you didn’t marry him’. Michelle said ‘if I had married him, HE would be the president.’
I call B*llshit…
*Goes back To Reading*
When you come home from being blasted at the office all day, a JO can't give you the back rub of reassurance that only a woman you care for can.
When all seems lost, only your wife will know what to say to you to make you want to dust yourself off and try again. She knows YOU and knows what words will push you.
When you do accomplish that goal, only the woman that KNOWS you best wil l have your perfect celebration planned out including those extra special things only she knows about you.
Women love taking that credit boy…
but i bet if said shoe was on other foot, yall would TEST-i-FEYE with independent womenese
Amen! Say it again sir. She should be lucky he brought her along.
What if dude overcame days like that prior to her being in his life?
What if he was donald trump successful?
What if he was already on his way? I wont say that she didnt contribute, but the wife as a defining factor? I dont know
I mean.. Dude went to HARVARD UNIVERSITY for crying out loud…
LOL @ Picture of disapproving Black Baby Boomers
I agree my reason is by choice. I use to think it was all the other reasons. But now I know it is choice.
I disagree that it is accepted for men. I think if anything it is accepted for women because everybody says there is a man shortage. So people see a single black women and think OK there is a man shortage. I understand.
Conversly people think black men have a surplus of choices. So if you are good lookin, with a good job, home, money etc etc……people think there must be something wrong with you.
"Conversly people think black men have a surplus of choices. So if you are good lookin, with a good job, home, money etc etc……people think there must be something wrong with you."
You know, I actually agree with this because this is how I think.
I live in the infamous "A", and whenever I hear dudes talking about they "can't find anybody of quality", yada yada…I instantly stop listening because I'm thinking…"the ratio is 50:1, and YOU can't find anyone, ninja please, and it's probably one of those reasons above." I mentally roll my eyes and get out my violin. I don't even bother with those dudes anymore…..so you make a good point.
In reference to the abundance of choice in BW, I will say this…
The ODDS Are GOOD, But The GOODS Are ODD
Please don't get me started today…
key word "Perceived" surplus. LOL
O Lawd, here we go again.
Nope. Not going there today. LOL
I am trying to be (An Officer &) a Gentleman today… Please ignore all & any imflammatory comment by anyone remotely named Adonis…
"Conversly people think black men have a surplus of choices. So if you are good lookin, with a good job, home, money etc etc……people think there must be something wrong with you."
i agre w/ your disagreement..there might be more women, but when you end up choosing between women that aren't looking at you in the first place, then it's not really much of a surplus.
Maybe it falls in with #2, but they just keep pursuing the wrong women. I know I still do that and it can be a be a factor.
For example, I pursued the "Masters degree having, house owning, independence declaring, no child having, uber-sista", for a while. My ex-girlfriend fell into that category, as did a woman I went on a couple of dates with recently. While my ex was basically a good person, as was the lady I went out with…I didn't enjoy being with them. I won't bash, bemoan, or berate them for their personalities. They are who they are, and I am, who I am.
On the flip, I went out with a young lady who, quite honestly, would never be on my personal radar. She was kind and generous without any sense of entitlement. Conversation flowed easily with her. Despite not being as educated, she actually demonstrated a wider range of knowledge. At the end of a very fun second date, we were all over each other, and I had to actually put the brakes on, because this is someone I want to know inside before I "know her inside". In short, she's more like the woman I want to be with than the women I've been pursuing.
Whether or not things progress…that's another story.
Jupiter Calhoun: "On the flip, I went out with a young lady who, quite honestly, would never be on my personal radar. She was kind and generous without any sense of entitlement. Conversation flowed easily with her. Despite not being as educated, she actually demonstrated a wider range of knowledge."
Funny how it often turns out that way.
I here this alot. I can dig it. I think it's great that people find love where they can, there's no written rule that "education" makes one a better mate. It makes you…educated, and at times only book smart. People aren't taught how to love, or be supportive in some class. Being a good person is typically inherent to the person, not some learned trait.
Yes…often the ones with all the education were pretty geeky, for lack of a better word, growing up.
So they are super book smart but totally ineperienced or immature in relationships.
"For example, I pursued the "Masters degree having, house owning, independence declaring, no child having, uber-sista", for a while." Be careful. The fact that you wasn't feeling them may get you called out for making excuses or coping out.
You had me at #7.
I understand that the definition of manhood is defined in some arenas by accomplishing these things, but I honestly don't want to meet someone at the finish line of life and become his wife.
I'd rather run the race together, see how you handle the hills and valleys, and pass the mile markers with you. Otherwise, how would I know that I'm just not the trophy that you got at the end to add to your other trophies on the shelf?
You deserve the Nobel Peace Prize for your comment. I couldn't agree with your post more. More "Natural" relationships where friendships, partnerships and companionships can form and less "planned" relationships where there little to no room for adjustment
"More “Natural” relationships where friendships, partnerships and companionships can form and less “planned” relationships where there little to no room for adjustment"
I don't understand what you mean here.
Are you saying that if I “plan” to get married, that I can't adjust things in the marriage as opposed to a natural progression to marriage?
I mean, if I plan to go to the store, I can still adjust/change what I buy just as if I went to the store on impulse.
@ToniChilds: Very interesting perspective. Great comment – and I think you created another blog idea.
*scribbles furiously in notepad*
The finish line is always moving. When I talk about accomplishments, I'm not saying I don't wanna be married until I've done everything and retired. It's more so about knocking out certain goals that we established before you even came into the picture. Once we clear those, we're on to the next ones and happy to take that journey together.
WIM, this is great post. Yes, it is because I am a strong advocate for marriage.
Based on my past and present experiences and knowledge, I would say that none of the above apply when people sincerely want to be together. We all know broke, young, imperfect people that marry all the time.
#7 and #6 – Although it is great that both parties have a vision, there is nothing stopping the two from reaching that vision together.
#5 – Immaturity affects young and old alike. I do think that both parties should at least be mature enough to handle the stresses that come with marriage.
#4 – goes back to #5 if you ask me. If the only thing that’s stopping a man from getting married is his incessant need to get care-free bootie, than he has some growing up to do and therefore should not even be considered as husband material.
#3 – Nuff said. This person should not even be considered either. You can’t make a leopard change his spots, so why risk becoming bitter, older and alone trying.
#2 – This is where it becomes sketchy. Some women feel as if they can wait this out. Some women feel as if their pride won’t allow them to let go of something they invested years and tears into. Some are willing to put their lives in the hands of an uncertain man. I am proactive so it wouldn’t take me long enough to know when to say quit. A woman should honestly assess the situation and make choices based on her needs.
I believe that the problem starts in the beginning of relationships when EXPECTATIONS should be set. For example, if you as a woman don't believe in a 3 year dating plan then that precendent should be set in the beginning and not further down the line. Most of us get to a certain comfort zone, where we become content with that level because it's working for us. However, if the expectation is set beforehand, then a comfort zone does not formulate, allowing for unlimited potential and growth.
2.) The more successful we (as in African Americans) become, the more unrealistic our expectations become. I'm not saying this applies to everyone but as we gain more assets, status, etc. eventually we all begin to feel as though that side of the table has more weight on its end, therefore disrupting the balance. A lot of arguments in relationships are over finances, assets and status. We begin to lose sight of what's really important and we all know what happens after that.
3.) The way that marriage is presented nowadays makes it seem as though it's a final chapter instead of a new beginning. The expectations, rules, etc. change and now there are a number of limitations that prohibit what a person can or cannot do. I'm all for marriage but I would like ti have a natural relationship where both can be themselves instead of a forced or planned relationship where in really doesn't allow for any natural change to occur.
Dude told me like this…
"Get married before you make 300K. (I apologize those the type of mentors I got.) He was like think about it, once you make that much dough what can you afford? That Benz (he pointed at his S430), Nice house in Eastern Market, maybe a fancy dog that cost like $3K? No you know what you can afford? Two chicks. How much do you think it takes to keep two chicks in your crib fed and liquored up? I know, about 60K. When you make 300, you can spare 60 to have two chicks in bikinis in the pool all day."
I went home and got to doing the math and he was EXACTLY RIGHT. When a man makes it in life, he get himself involved in stuff that takes away the need for marriage. That's why you gotta lock it down young. Like let me tell you some real ish…
1) Threesomes and ish. When you making money, you can find groupies to do that on the reg. Like you don't even have to be famous, just drop like 5 stacks in the club and watch what happen. Aggins be in the club talking about, "tryna smoke?" That's dumb, ask them chicks, "tryna go back to the crib and do coke?" Whole NOTHER LEVEL.
2) Houses in other countries where it be inconceivable amounts of women who look good and have straight hair. Mainly, these places: Paris, DR and Brazil. You can smash a chick off GP for saying, "I have a place in Paris."
3) Have you ever seen the movie Eyes Wide Shut? You don't get invited to those parties unless you making like at least 250K. You ain't got nothing to lose. You can't sit at the table if you not gambling. That's how they hedge their privacy bets, by knowing you got something to lose.
4) You can do this on the regular… you ever wanted to chill with a model. There's a very easy way to do this… hire her for a photoshoot. Yeah you could spend that money in Vegas and make a few dollars, or you could just call Suelyn's manager and schedule her for a photoshoot. Talk about an experience of a lifetime. (On the low, I heard she's DTF too.)
You can't do those 4 things when you have a wife, and none of them lead you to a point in life where you want to get a wife. And people say, but if you don't get married and have children who will carry on your legacy. This dude told me, "Ain't gonna be no legacy, I'm spending all my sh*t before I die."
23, Black Male, NYC, No kids, Reformed AFC…
Just to recap…
– Most BW suck (Not the BW that read this BLOG, of course…)
– I believe in expensive weddings & my girl looking shiny (F*CK marriage certificates)
– Yes I am the stereotypical BROKE dude who complains Alimony, Sh*tty Divorce Law, about child support… #AndIWillKeepTalkingShit
The REAL reason I don't want to give a woman a marriage certificate, that TRUMPS all the other reasons… is because I haven't found the woman that I would marry despite all the obstacles… (shout out to TMIMITW for that revelation)
Frankly, she is out there… And I don't want to find her, don't want her to FIND ME… and if we do meet… I will be the Spectacular As*hole to her, so she can't see how we were meant for each other…
More thoughts later…
Ok….Hi Adonis, how is your day going? I had to cover by ever growing belly from your comment. Why the venom today?
Btw, when she comes….that wall that you stay building will come crashing down like poorly constructed Jenga blocks.
There was no ill intent… No venom… Just calling it from my (limited) perspective…
You see, if sex wasn't so easy (or least easy in the sense, that MARRIAGE is not a requirement)
I would have a different POV…
But LEVERAGE is my bible… And as far as alimony & child support is concerned… why even DEAL with that kind of potential headache, when you can avoid it all together…
Shacking Up (Safely) Is The Wave…
BTW, whether I get married or NOT… I still have to choose the right quality woman/women to follow my lead…
I never really have a comment for you when one of these comments come up. And this day is just like those days. I dunno what to say. But "Um…ok"
Woman: I like you and I want you to be my man
Me: miss im not ready for a relationship right now, I am seeing someone(the other girl knew how I felt), yea we are having sex i am not trying to hurt you, im just bein honest and upfront.
Woman: well I will take some d#ck for right now
Me:honestly sweetie I think that would complicate things, im trying to get to know you more, can you deal with this?
Woman: (obviously surprised at my reaction) well I WANT THIS I WANT THAT! but okay fine im cool with it
A week or so goes by, I swear to oprah she says:
Woman: this is not fair, I think you should not be having sex with the other girl, *starts crying* you are just like the rest, this is all your fault!! Why cant you act right?
Me: (dumb founded and laughing) I told you everything up front!
Woman: NO YOU DID NOT!
Me: Get help miss(hangs up delete contact)
Moral of story: another fear men have that rarely gets talked about is a woman that does not listen, that hears what she wants, communication is huge, some men wont admit but no man wants to deal this the rest of his life
If a woman tells you that she wants more yet you see she is DESPERATE enough to accept less…be a man and leave her to her uncertainty and keep it moving.
Only a jerk takes advantage of a person’s desperation and blames it on the desperate person. In your scenario, that man did have a choice to walk away. The highroad is out of the questions when it comes to bootie on a platter huh? Too much LIKE RIGHT to turn down something that you know will turn ugly in the NEAR future.
Why not just be the better person and say–well, this chick obviously don't know what she wants, so either I take full advantage of that knowing she will do a 180 later OR I can just leave her alone.
That sir is not miscommunication just chickens coming home to roost
Umm *scratches head* that situation was me, and at the end I said GET HELP MISS HUNG UP AND DELETED CONTACT that means goodbye chick have a nice life, plus earlier in the post I said I TURNED DOWN HER REQUEST, you just confirmed why I said people hear what they want to hear
First Round K.O
I stand corrected I didnt clearly state that I turned her down for relations, but if I did take her up on her offer, we are both adults no such things as victims only volunteers
Oooo, now I understand. Your initial post threw me off, I thought you told her…we can have chexy time, I also want get to know you a bit more but I don't want a relationship.
Bless her delusional heart.
"Only a jerk takes advantage of a person’s desperation and blames it on the desperate person."
Cosign! Man… have a heart! Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean that you SHOULD…
Don't know if you read the part after my post about where i left off the part about not sleeping with the girl, i didnt sleep with her i did walk away…but if i did sleep with her thats on her… not me. I am 100% ageeement with you about men being leaders, as a man, leadership is seriously lacking and i can be honest about that, but you can't lead if the person dont want to be led, i tried to help the girl but her mind was made up i couldn't tell her nothing. i think self-inficted pain is way worse, she was doin way more to herself than what I COULD HAVE done to her.
@Beef Bacon: For what it's worth, I side with Mix in this hypothetical (or real life) scenario.
In fact, I wrote a bout a similar situation here: http://www.boissuq.com/?p=4545
In my opinion, men aren't responsible for women and I actually think its strange that a number of women feel that way. Unless you are our wife, all we are truly responsible for is telling you the truth. When you have all the facts you need to make a reasonable, well thought out, adult decision, then no one is taking advantage of you.
More people, men and women, need to take more personal responsibility for their situations in life and stop looking to blame everyone besides themselves.
At least that's what WIM thinks.
@ W.I.M we see to eye on this, im not a bad guy im not heartless but i dont think i would be at fault for her issues, plus dealing with a woman who thinks like that on a day to day base
Mix, I don't think you are a bad guy.
I am just saying that sometimes men (leaders) may want to spare themselves and the woman the drama by simply walking away.
Yes, we are all grown but it is ok to look out for us sista's ya know. Tell me NO and walk away now so I can save you the tears later. This is true especially if the woman clearly states she wants more. Do someone else a favor sometimes…it won't hurt, I promise. It may even feel good.
Why are women always trying to coax men into being overly empathetic. That's the problem with our boys today, they're confused because their mothers keep trying to raise them to cater to women and their irrational wants, instead of teaching him practicality, self sufficiency, and pragmatism and of utmost to love himself first. In contrast, you raise your daughters the total opposite, to be self-serving and less compassionate of ANY ignominious male behavior. Then when boys grow up and have resentment towards women because mom misguided them, you blame the whole generation of men. I never hear women giving each other advice to be understanding with regards to men, just defensive coaching…
I didn't see Beef Bacon's point as assigning blame from the female in this scenario to the guy. I saw it more as, he told her upfront what it was and saw her react in a manner that clearly hinted that she wasn't ok with it but was going along with it anyway. Then he decided to mess around with her anyway but blamed the girl for going crazy. I think the point was that he can't fully only blame her for acting like she did when he choose to mess with her anyway after he had apprehension about it. He can't just blame her when he could have walked away from it all. (but I may be wrong about what she was trying to say)
@MissLady: I actually agree with Beef Bacon's point; however, I dont find the woman in this instance completely without fault. There's a legal term for this but I'm not smart enough to think of it and I'm too lazy to Google it. I'm sure someone more intelligent than myself knows this term and may volunteer it later. lol
But basically, it sums up that since both parties had a role in the decision leading to the final outcome then both parties are culpable; with neither party sharing more blame than the other.
You got it right MissLady…that's exactly what I was saying!
"Sex Without Commitment is Too Easy"
This right here is the Ugly Truth!!!
Fcuk Buddies/FwB/Cut Buddies/JumpOffs/FAB/GiW/Wifey, etc…….. *rolls eyes*
With so many women willing to participate or audition for one of the above titles who could blame a man for wanting to hold out on getting married.. I would love to say we GOT TO DO BETTER but I honestly think it's too late, some of these situationships have surpassed the pros/cons of actually being in a real relationship which usually led to a proposal and/or marriage.
#7- I pretty much co-sign with everything Slim mentioned on this area. I'm sure there are things women, as well, would like to accomplish before marriage, also. As long as everything is communicated effectively then I don't see a problem with it.
#6- I see where you are coming from, but one can't fault an individual for having something of a comfortable base before they have to finance an engagment ring and plan for the amounts of expenses that will come with children down the line. Half of the marriages that end in divorce are related to finances. Probability of success increases if you're not too far behind the 8-ball going in.
#5- Speaks for itself. Immaturity will prevent one from progressing in most adult-related scenarios and marriage is not an exception.
#4- Sure this statement is relatively true, but odds are someone that is still "playing the field" and trying to bed any and every shorty out there isn't ready for a serious relationship, nevermind marriage.
#3- I know many men, myself included, that get the "well what's wrong with you" look when they find out I'm not married yet. As far as the notion that men don't want to, that may be the case…sometimes, but I'll submit to you that it's more along the lines of I don't want to get married…to YOU. Some men, it may take them a few months, a year, however how long to come to this conclusion during the course of the relationship. At that point then both parties should part ways.
#2- Ok, we all know there's no such thing as the perfect woman/man, just what's perfect to you. So why is it one can't search for the perfect person for them. I read the article about the "F* a Diamond" and other articles about the engagment ring deal and I seen more then a few females blatantly state "Well I want what I want..and that's that!" I'd suggest that same principle can be applied to man wanting what he wants in a mate.
All in all a very good post, but like most open questions there isn't just one clear cut answer. Opinions are often very subjective and open to interpretation based on one's personal experiences and different perspectives and views on life. (I know I'm stating the obvious, I apologize). Just thought I'd chime in with my 2-cents.
Funny how this conversation is still going on lol alot of the females and shameless males on here slandering the name of men with "immaturity" and "maybe he's scared" talk need to get over yourselves. Trying to punk men into a commitment of that magnitude is not only foolish but reckless. Using that sort of reverse psychology and challenging the manhood of men only supports the notion that these thirsty-ass women have no principles nor scruples to stand on. The only thing that would pre-dominate the minds and fancies of these pubescent adult women are only of childhood fantasies of playing house with your very own real-life version of Ken.
The truth of the matter why men won't marry the women they fuck with, for lack of better words, is simply THEY DON'T LOVE THAT ASS THAT MUCH!!!!
People thinking that marriage is the ultimate sign of adulthood need to kick the can because clearly we didn't all graduate high school standing at the alter. Building a strong family, if one hopes to start one, begins with true love between the founders of said union.
All of you lovestruck females hurt by the notion that the guy you're with is simply fucking the shit out of you and nothing more, need to stop this psuedo-intellectual carping over your spoiled feelings and wounded pride. Maybe your pussy isn't all that great or maybe, just maybe YOU AREN'T THE ONE. Suck it up because 99.9 times out of 10 it is simple as that. Those seven reasons are simply ways of telling you that very inconvenient truth.
I'm through Lurking…..I've also had enough of this subject….my brothers, learn that women relate marriage to fantasy! When we all as men learn this, we all will come out better in the end!
Defintely learned Dr. Baumeister's study in social psych class, which I've been stating long before. It would be my number one reason for not getting married if I were a man.
Shout out to the Alma Mater. Go Noles!
Good write-up. I read the first couple of lines in my email this morning and then put my phone back in my bag because I thought it was going to have a different tone. Watched a bit of your vid, and that took me by surprise as well. I thought you were younger, and I kind of expected you to sound different. Lemme go back to that perception post real quick.
lol, I just fast forwarded to the end. You silly. Oh, and I like your voice. Um.. I guess I have to go back to the groupie post as well. #losing
Valid points on the post. Although some people noted that it's natural to want to achieve certain goals before jumping the broom (I have some of my own), it's true that we as a group tend to place more emphasis on that aspect of things than our peers.
This list was just ignorant. We should be telling ours sisters to marry a man that have goals and that want to accomplish those goals. if a man wants to complete college first than support the man by helping him complete college. Not by adding the financial responsibilities of marriage and paying for college. Not by dividing his time between school and marriage. Second why would I want my sister to marry a man in debt. That means he isn't taking care of bussiness. Who ever wrote this has set the bar way to low for women.
Man, this is my dream blog. I wish I would have ran across this site a long time ago.
I feel like I have been having this discussion quite a bit lately. I agree with all of the points. For me, it comes down to risk vs. reward. I really can't see the reward of marriage given all of the risks associated with it. Even if the divorce rate was only 25%, I don't see myself risking half of my stuff and sanity for a life time commitment. I read the earlier post about men not owning anything of value, but I do. Therefore, that is the perspective that I need to go off of.
Growing up, I never thought that I would quantify a relationship in a cost vs. benefit type of way (thanks grad school). My parents have been married for 35 years and I grew up in a loving household. Anytime I think of marriage, this intense fear comes over me like I was in Battlefield Los Angeles.
Other than divorce, the supply and demand of sex is of major concern as well. When you are in a relationship (and stay true to it), I feel like women gain the complete upper hand. They control a most valuable resource for men: sex. When you get married, you are limiting that resource to one supplier, who has complete control over the supply. If you try to switch suppliers, you lose financially/emotionally. That doesn't sound like a great deal to me right now.
As a guy that's been told to his face by numerous women that he's not perfect enough to even date….I have to disagree with #7. Especially when I'm always being told…"Just wait, and the right one will be there for you when it's time" and "When you get a little more established, you'll have more options" and most recently "When you get back to the States you'll have a better time".
I used to think that a woman would be willing to work with a man as he achieves his personal goals….but I have yet to meet such a woman, so I can't believe this one.
From what I see men don't have a clue about marriage in the first place. Most men haven't seen a marriage so how would they know. When they do see a marriage it's usually end in a divorce. I'm just saying….
For me its the fact that every woman I have dated has at least 2 children….
It seems like while I was busting my @zz in medical school then grad school all the sister were having babies. Now that I have some time they all have kids…
I like black women and would not marry any other but now things are harder with the " Ready Made Families"
@half-a-hero. You will find that the ready made family is really part of the age group you looked at; and I don't know what that is, I assume it's somewhere between 30-40. People choose and have families and children by then. Medical school takes up a lot of time. Time was still passing in other people's lives, though it seemed to be frozen at a certain point in yours. It's all about the path you chose. Yours was least traveled. So you may have to find, oftentimes older, women in your circle with the same motivations and career outlook. That's all it is. Good Luck!
Here's somethihg for (LIFE)
I have a comment on this marriage thing, I am a divorced man. During this time I was doing what I needed to do. We both made mistakes, but instead of her doing it the right way…she tried to turn it into complete drama. When she asked me to leave after she let her family in our marriage, I agreed and just left. No argument or baby please, nothing at all but just "okay i will go". In two days I was gone and didn't look back. She did not want to be supportive of what I wanted for us both, because I failed a couple of times she didn't feel secure enough to hang in there. She needed instant gratification. I just got divorced two months ago, and landed two contracts worth $175,000.00, she got the house, the car and her family and friends that helped her get her way out. Oh yeah! I still work full time, started my 401k up again. Will be opening my online store up next month. I am purchasing a new home in Texas next year.
She did not have to cook, clean, wash or do anything unless she wanted to. She went on trips over seas and internationally when she wanted. I use to get headaches and stomach aches everyday, taking aspirin and pepto bismal. Now I don't suffer with that anymore. I finally completed my Masters in Finance. I have 15 yrs of military under my belt. My business is doing just great, and Jesus is showing me favor. I am no where near broke being a Child of GOD. And the Prince that he made me. I have noticed that my sisters tend to get verbally abusive or very negative towards others when we do not see it their way. I am okay with being single for now, but I am letting God take the lead. So..I say this "Cast your own STONE and let others cast theirs."
All I have to say is Brothers there are those who will try to make you feel less that a good man in order to manipulate the conversation. Those with a wicked Tongue knows how to do this quite well. Listen and read carefully and you will see the hateful spirit of satan overflowing. Pray for the Queen to be placed in your life and God will keep the Jezebels clear of you. Think about it, Maybe that is why you are single _ He is saving the best for all of you. There is a piece of history that the brothers and the sisters need to read especially the Brothers. Pull it up on the internet (JIM CROWS LETTER) some still have that mentality and do not realise it. My life is better that I can pursue what was meant for me. Sisters this is not a punch at you, I was compelled to comment.
On the one hand, there is a cycle of broken homes and poverty that is very real in the black community. The fact is black families are stronger emotionally and financially when the household is headed by two loving, caring parents. If you plan to have children, they deserve that. Their is no need to fear marriage if you have your priorities straight and you do it right. It's been said, men, find the right woman. Ladies, vice versa. Just choose wisely. That's it. There is nothing else to it. Life isn't perfect. You can plan not to fail, but there is NO GUARANTEE. Life has no guarantees. Period. Fall in Love. Marry because you feel a connection and you can't live or breathe without who you feel is your soulmate. Not because he or she is wealthy or they drive a nice car or whatever the other superficial reasons are. Let the fear go.
Conversely, If you just can't let the fear go, don't marry. It isn't for everyone; and no matter how many excuses you make or what you're reasons are, it doesn't matter. You'll do what you do. You'll feel how you feel; and you'll live your life your way. No need to justify your reasons to anyone. That's the problem with us, we are always throwing stones. No one has the right to interfere with anyone else's right to happiness or the pursuit of it or to judge you based on their own indoctrinated prejudices.
I think BOTH the male and the female must be ready to marry. They both have to want to commit, not just one of them. Surprisingly to myself, I remarried after being divorced for 20 years. I've had boyfriends but never expected to meet my true husband. And yes, Ladies, I approached HIM. He said I was so beautiful he would have never approached me even though he wanted to many times. We became best friends and fell in love, but we both had boundaries we expected the other to follow. We both had baggage but he listed to me and I listened to him. We both gave into each other alot because we'd rather be in love than argue. He was a real gentleman which made me a real woman…for him. It was an amazing journey I'll never forget. He tragically past away recently and I've resigned myself in knowing I will never meet another man who cared for me as much as he did, or as much as I cared for and respected him for being a true man and protector of his family. There were also haters lurking around every corner so beware of friends & family who have no experience. Protect yourself, yes, but don't be afraid to be in love. Its the healthiest gift God gave us.
Black men don't get married because they can get a variety of free, no committment p*ssy every single day – PERIOD. Black men don't give two shits about family, committment, love, etc. EVERYTHING, I repeat, EVERYTHING a man does, whether it's advancing his education (to make more money), driving an expensive car, buying a home, etc. is to attract MORE and BETTER p*ssy. Men live to increase their pool of p*ssy. Men, especially the alpha males, have perfected the art of creating the ILLUSION of being ready for marriage- it's the proverbial carrot they dangle for new p*ssy, that's it. Ladies, just focus on making YOUR life as full and happy as possible WITHOUT a man. Life is too short to feel like you have to put up with constant lies (they ALL lie), STDs (they'll never admit to having one), stress, heartache and disappointment.
"Most sound goal driven men want to get their affairs in order before they get married: college, career advancement, etc. There are simply certain accomplishments men prefer to achieve before marriage."
… could be – or some just don't want responsibilities
My recent post A Bad Working Experience with Networker Cara McClure Black
Prison Midnight Train passenger!!!! 67% of black males end up as cell meat! It doesn't stop cause they sent you home to momma!!!! Just open Craigslist & find your BF!!!!
In case you want to read it yourself!!!! http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/20/national/20blac…
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