Winning?
The digital age. What a great time to be alive. Everything has gotten faster, smaller, easier but in some aspects, have things gotten too easy? In this instance, I’m referring to dating, especially for men. I had an interesting revelation the other day but I’ll get to that in a minute.
I don’t know about you but lately I’ve had entire relationships reduced to nothing more than text messages. Ok, that’s a little extreme. Let’s say these relationships were predominately reduced to text messages. Dates where scheduled, meet-ups planned, sex incurred, all without any significant amount of oral. No pun intended.
I did a little math formula on Twitter to illustrate this conundrum. I have an unlimited text plan. I believe it cost around $20. For ease, let’s say I send 1,000 text messages a month. That means I’m paying roughly $.02 per text. Therefore, I pay $1 for every 50 texts sent. While I don’t know the exact statistics, I can assure you I have de-thonged women in less than 50 texts before. Does that mean women are giving up sex for less than $1 in 2011? Hmmm. Either way, as an article that I linked to in a prior write-up stated, “sex is clearly cheap for men” – and it appears women suffer disproportionately as a result.
If you would have told me in college there would come a time when women would have sex with you for nothing more than a few clever text messages sprinkled with strategically placed emoticons :-), then I would have called you a crazy person. Times have changed. Slowly but surely, I’ve gotten lazier and lazier and didn’t even realize it. Suddenly, texts are my primary means of communication.
In High School I would call 2 – 3 times before giving up. In college, I’d call 1 – 3 times and leave a voice mail. Presently, I’ll call once, maybe. I sure as hell don’t leave voicemails (I’m not even sure my own voicemail is set up), and I MIGHT follow-up with a text message or two. My theory is the phone works both ways. If a woman doesn’t call or text back, I assume she’s not that interested and quickly move on with life. What is the residual effect of all this?
Let’s get back to my revelation. I was telling my friend about this girl I ‘really liked’ but I didn’t think it was going to work out because I was tired of chasing her. My friend asked me to explain what I did before giving up. I told her that I called once or twice and sent one or two text messages. There was a brief silence – and I’ll spare you the profanity laced details – but basically, she cursed me out and in so many words called me a lazy bastard. I couldn’t get upset because she was right.
You see, over the years I’ve become so spoiled by all these various forms of communication that even when confronted by a woman I really liked I considered a couple phone calls and a few text messages sufficient enough to demonstrate my interest. That is sad.
I’ll attempt to explain this further without sounding too cocky, but it is what it is. I feel like the kid that did well in school but never studied. I have always done well with women without ever trying particularly hard. Now I’m in a transitional phase. I’m trying to get into the “ivy league” school; serious relationships with more substance and long-term sustainability than those I’ve entered into before. However, since I never learned to study, it has at times proven difficult and required more effort than I’m accustom to. Sure, I could continue with my familiar habits but they may not result in an acceptance letter: e.g. a serious relationship vs. additional superficial relationships. As women are all to eager to remind me, “nothing worth having comes easy.”
So readers, in your opinion does all this technology hamper establishing healthy relationships? Can you connect equally through text, Gchat, Facebook or other as much or more so than over the phone or face to face? It’s a known fact that men and women interpret communication differently but do you consider it sufficient communication regardless of the medium used? Do these various communications expedite serious and sustainable relationships or hinder them? To both the men and women, does technology make men lazy in courting/dating/and the pursuit and/or expectation of sex? Or are both parties equally liable in establishing the “value” of sex?
WisdomIsMisery
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I strongly disagree with this.
I personally have no problem courting a woman. But if I have to call her 13 times to get her to go out with me (this never happens) then why bother. A woman is clearly not interested if she can't return phone calls and text messages.
So I'm exactly as you describe. I call no more than twice. After that I'm gone…
There is nothing wrong with a woman showing interest if she wants to be courted. If a woman is looking at her phone, seeing that I tried to contact her, and is purposely ignoring my calls because she wants to play games, then she's not the woman for me. As I grow older, I am more and more appreciative of women who actually know what they want. If a woman is "too busy" to return my calls/messages, then she is not the woman for me. She is too busy, after all.
I'm just not feeling it. I'm interested in what others have to say about this.
"I personally have no problem courting a woman. But if I have to call her 13 times to get her to go out with me (this never happens) then why bother. A woman is clearly not interested if she can’t return phone calls and text messages.
So I’m exactly as you describe. I call no more than twice. After that I’m gone…"
I understand. Trust me, I do. However, from the women's perspective, let's assume you're not the only man calling her, which if she's attractive, you probably are not, kind sir. All things equal among suitors, you call twice, while the other man goes the extra mile and calls three or four times. He also leaves a voicemail reemphasizing his interest in wanting to get to know her. Etcetera and so forth.
I say this to say, most women – whether men like it or not – like to be chased/courted. Maybe she's not "playing games" or even “busy.” She is simply waiting to see what you offer, since she doesn’t know much more about you beyond a hole a in wall. Where you gave up, the next man pursued. Exactly, why would she choose you when you have already demonstrated less effort?
Just something to consider.
"So I’m exactly as you describe. I call no more than twice. After that I’m gone…"
"All things equal among suitors, you call twice, while the other man goes the extra mile and calls three or four times. He also leaves a voicemail reemphasizing his interest in wanting to get to know her. Etcetera and so forth."
Yes!! If guys (ones not wanting to do too much) approached job hunting the way they did courting the unemployment rate would increase.
I can say the same thing for BW competing for the men they say they are attracted to… (Physical Presentation)
So you are saying BW are lazy when it comes to physical presentation. HAH!
Yes M'am… a large number of them are… & they hate on the women who decide to get dolled up
YES WIS! I'm saying, in the early stages, I. DON'T. KNOW. YOU. I'm going to need more from you than a "Hey Beautiful" text to inspire me to reach out. The art of conversation is on life support. When you text, you gotta either have a convo in mind or ask questions. You can't just say "Yep" or "Hey" and expect us to drop everything and manufacture a convo all the time. When I'm trying to get off the phone or stop texting I will drop the "lol" or "ok" so when you do that two texts in, I'm out. I'm not here for your entertainment. SAY SOMETHING if you want us to speak back. You're right that we're just not that interested, but not cause you suck necessarily, because you haven't shown us any of yourself.
Lawd, I wish Conversation 101 was a prerequisite for getting a phone.
I obviously need to woo-sah for a minute…talk amongst yourself, here I'll give you a topic: The Progressive Era, it was neither progressive nor an era; discuss.
Ok. I'm going to need ya'll to slow down. You say when you meet a man you don't know him from a can of paint. What makes him better and more worthy than the next dude? That being said wouldn't the reverse also hold true? I mean, I know you look good but outside of that why am I putting in all this one sided effort? Who are you? I mean ya mama said you were special but Corey ain't ya mama. If you're interested, act like it. If not, keep on pushing. #Justsayno# I have no problem fighting for a woman I care about but a stranger is just that. I can't hold a convo with a person that isn't receptive. Do your part.
And women should REALLY be up on this as much as they complain about being single. This ain't no romantic comedy.
Men have all the leverage… Men don't have to put in work… Unless he is looking for a wife(y)
Less love, more sex; no calls, just texts; new girl, no ex; more sleep less stress.
Oh My Gosh!! Really? ha!
I think Brett has got has got it right on.
Good men are the now certainly in the minority – really why should they chase?
I'm certainly not a feminist but I've just never understand this whole dynamic or societal rule that 'the man should chase – it's his job'. I've done all the reading about biology, social programming and masculine/feminine polarity and yet still I see no reason to 'chase' or pursue. It's not that one gender (men) have got lazy – EVERYONE has got lazy thanks to technology. I'm sorry if a woman expects to a guy to approach, build attraction through charismatic conversation (i.e 'entertain her' and not be boring), arrange the date then call her 13 times – ironically how is that not laziness? If we lived in the 1800's where men had the financial monopoly on women then that would be fine – but we don't live in those times.
There is some serious confusion here – perusing and being the masculine man who leads are 2 different things. This is despite the harmful societal programming that the 'fairytale' will happen. I have no problem approaching a woman, leading a conversation and exchanging contact details – but why would I pursue? Why would I ring her an extra 2 times just because some other even more desperate dude may 'get her'. If a woman wants a guy to chase her endlessly, initiate everything while she just sits on a throne of judgement – then there is serious ego stroking/self esteem issues. Real men have got busy, fulfilling lives, without need for emotional validation from dating – they won't have time or inclination to continually chase any woman that couldn't be bothered to return contact. If a woman wants to get together with him – great, if not then he will just get on with his life.
Thankfully by not being the desperate pursuer you automatically screen out all the women who don't believe relationships are a 2 way effort and who want to just look pretty and show their friends how many guys are after them. Every since I stopped all these ridiculous dating games and cliche advice I have met a ton of quality women – and yes there are plenty.
On a larger note we need to open up as a society to social freedom – either gender can approach anytime, emphasis on teamwork – not 'chasing' and being 'woo-ed'. Then we will have better relationships.
Yes technology has made some lazy. But then they come to a point and realize that texts can be miscontrued and are not effective in procurring and managing relationships. Phone, cards, letters via snail mail is better! Imagine getting that acceptace letter from Harvard via email! That is so generic. You want that letter on that expensive, monogrammed, watermarked paper that is probably made with some kind of Egyptian cotton or some type of linen. You do want to feel its texture and most of all that Provost's signature made by his own hand with a Mont Blanc pen!! So, yes I prefer in person, voice contact, because then I know you care. You care to take the time out of your busy or non lazy schedule to dial/speed dial my number and speak to me. I love it when someone calls me. I am most appreciative. Email? Text? Meh not so much. *eshrug*
LMAO at the amount of fancy you need that acceptance letter to be! I'm picturing you sending it back to Haaaaahvahhd telling them to step their fancy up! lol
I definitely understand your point, but all of my acceptance letters to B-School came by email. I would bet that HBS sends acceptance emails too. But, I know you were just trying to make your point about wanting to feel special/cared about. It does bring up an interesting point about what actions make people feel special. Even Harvard is being lazy now and days! Why wouldn't men?
Great article. I like to be courted old school. If a guy is texting me too much, I'll call so we can finish the conversation. Technology and the ample supply of single women has made men (and women) lazy when it comes to dating. But I think it depends on your dating season, if you are dating to date then the technology is ok. However, if you are dating to marry both parties need to step their game up.
*sways back and forth, waggin my head, with my hand in the air, humming* Weeeeeell….
I'm just cheating and trying to sneak in a post before I run off to work, so I'll just address one point for now:
"I told her that I called once or twice and sent one or two text messages. There was a brief silence – and I’ll spare you the profanity laced details – but basically, she cursed me out and in so many words called me a lazy bastard. I couldn’t get upset because she was right."
This kind of relates to that post that Slim wrote awhile back. You're going to have to clarify something for me: Were these calls and texts that she responded to but didn't give up the goodies or any significant amount of attention, or did she just flat out ignore them? In the case of the latter, no, your friend was not right. Ask any of my friends how many times I try to connect with them after a single call & voicemail/text (urgent situations excepted). Delayed responses are one thing, but to get no response at all? They're definitely barking up the wrong tree if they expect me to hunt them down to make an exchange happen. I don't know that I'd be much different if I were a man. Perhaps I'd make two attempts. Believe you me, though, after that, I'd just lay back and forget about the person in question unless and until they decide to show me somethin' (mind out of the gutter, eh! Yes, I am Canadian).
If I connect with a guy and he messages/call me, I'll respond. It may not be immediate if I have some stuff going on, but it's only courteous and right to acknowledge his effort. I find it hard to ignore even unwanted texts; I usually have to be annoyed to get to that point. I'm not a fan of games, so people who play them get no love.
"This kind of relates to that post that Slim wrote awhile back. You’re going to have to clarify something for me: Were these calls and texts that she responded to but didn’t give up the goodies or any significant amount of attention, or did she just flat out ignore them?"
To answer your question, she answered one of the phone calls and both of the text messages. I called one time and she said she was going to call back and she never did. I let it go after that. She could have been busy. She could be dead (she's not). It could be any number of things.
Admittedly, I didnt try that hard because she didnt seem that interested. This experience was a little weird because she actually approached me in the first place and gave me her number. Then when I "pursued" her she became aloof. Therefore, although I liked her, I didnt feel like putting in the energy to figure it all out. I'll probably see her again down the road and maybe it'll work itself out or maybe it wont. I think another point that I didnt cover in this particular post, is because of all these various communications, it's also a lot easier to "not give a f*ck" – and move on with little regard for what could have been. At least for me anyway.
"[he] answered one of the phone calls and both of the text messages. I called one time and she said she was going to call back and she never did. I let it go after that."
Hm. This is what happened to me too… now you've got me feeling like maybe I put forth inadequate effort. lol.
In that particular situation, I would think that she is definitely interested. She may have had a lot going on, and by the time she was able to call (or remembered that she said she would call back), she might have felt that she waited to long. This is just a theory of course, but I'm confident in it.
Sorry Sane. I can't stand flaky women. Luke warm does not interest make.
I would say the same if it weren't for the fact that she initially approached him.
There is a million reasons why men & women don't call (you) back, etc… that may have nothing to do with me (you)…
I chuck the deuces & cut my losses…
Wis,
I definitely cosign your statement about it being a lot easier to "not give a f*ck". It is possible that she had a very legitimate reason for not calling you back(including, but not limited to, loss of interest). That's something I hear/see guys saying all the time when discussing why they may not have gotten around to responding to some woman or the other. The onus/burden of continuous reaching out is usually placed on the party who appears to harbour the most interest.
I wanted to address a comment you made above about getting ahead of the competition. I'm sorry, but I'd be wary of a woman who sits there waiting to see who'll ring her phone down or do _______ the most. Granted, there's been a time where some guy got through to me by sheer persistence, but that is the exception and not the rule. The voicemail was a good point though, because I recall you saying that you don't bother leaving those. There was a time I responded to every single missed call, but there's now a higher likelihood of me doing so if a VM is left. If we're talking about a guy I don't quite know yet, a missed call is more easily dismissed than a little verbal reminder of your existence that could quite possibly put a smile on my face. That said, do be cautious of appearing over-zealous. Someone made an analogy to applying for a job. I'm going into the HR field and I can already tell you that I'd be annoyed if I received more than two calls from someone whose first one I haven't gotten a chance to respond to. In a similar manner, I'm more likely to get annoyed if a guy keeps calling without giving me a chance to respond to his first or second of five messages. Perhaps it's because I would have already responded if a) I had the time, and b) I was interested. I'm easily turned off when annoyed.
All that to say this: you simply cannot be faulted if you work off the vibe that you're getting. It is my belief that one finds time for those whom one is interested in. It's true that you can't expect all of a woman's attention from the beginning and that you have to put in work, but interest is a two-way street. If I feel as though a guy is losing interest, mine will dwindle as well. If a woman does not give a man much to work with, then I cannot blame him for calling it quits. Full-on pursuits should be reserved for women who truly catch your attention (and not just the eyes), and you'll probably be left with a wide ass grin and swollen chest if and when she finally does give in to your advances. Don't sell yourself short by sticking your neck out for every pretty lil' thang that comes along, because she could very well turn out to be a brick. If she doesn't inspire it in you, then the 1-3 attempts should be sufficient.
@ Sane:
I think men and women alike need to stop flowing with that train of thought. Even if a person has "waited too long," there's nothing like a quick laugh and warm conversation to turn back the hands of time. Women probably have the upper hand when it comes to this kind of a situation, but there's no harm in man or woman trying their luck. At the worst, you'll confirm your suspicions.
This is a crock of bull…
Just because the method of communication is different, doesn't mean that an atttempt to communicate wasn't done. If you try and ignore a work text message or email because it wasn't a phone call, you would be fired on the spot.
Men aren't lazy in courting, because the approach is still there, and women aren't mindless creatures who move at our slightest advancement towards them. You didn't sleep with a women becasue you spent less than a $1 on text messages. She slept with you becasue she was horny and probably out of the other 2 dudes texting her… you were the closest (or had the funniest emoticon)
Give dude's a break.. and women some credit.
"You didn’t sleep with a women becasue you spent less than a $1 on text messages. She slept with you becasue she was horny and probably out of the other 2 dudes texting her… you were the closest (or had the funniest emoticon)"
This sentence made me spit out my coffee. *wipesdownkeyboard*
LOL..
"Just because the method of communication is different, doesn’t mean that an atttempt to communicate wasn’t done. If you try and ignore a work text message or email because it wasn’t a phone call, you would be fired on the spot."
Not sure I agree, playa. lol
I think the comments above/below are showing that (some) women do not – by any means – equate a phone call and a text message. I think it's that very misunderstanding that causes a lot of strife between men and women when it comes to their individual expectations when it comes to dating.
I agree they may have a different meaning, but it is still an attempt to reach out. We are making it seem like a phone call is something is incredibly hard to do. It isn't. The convenience of a text message, allows the lady to respond at her own time and doesn't pressure her to speak immediately. I can argue that a text is more polite and allows for further contact.
I don't think women want politeness or convenience and they can respond to a phone call at their own time as well. They want you to want intimacy (albeit, their definition of it). And phone calls are a step up on that scale compared to texting.
I would probably say that some modern men have become too lazy to court because the women they deal with allow it. Men today can propose to a chick and plan a whole life with her over the computer, without ever having to take her out (I have witnessed such foolishness). What's sad is the women who allow such buffoonery.
I had a guy (older) try to run the let's date by text message game on me and I cut it short. I suppose it was initially my fault b/c during the day, I can't really talk on the phone, but I can text and that is how things started out, talking by text. Problem with texting only is the high potential for mis-communication and it can be impersonal….at any rate, People make time for the things they want to do, and that includes making a phone call or two. So, that is what I do, if interested on a deeper level, I make the time to use all forms of communication. And I expect the same from someone trying to get to know me, etc. If you text only, I will presume you're truly not interested or playing games…
"I would probably say that some modern men have become too lazy to court because the women they deal with allow it. Men today can propose to a chick and plan a whole life with her over the computer, without ever having to take her out (I have witnessed such foolishness)."
I can't believe this. I'd like to meet this guy.lol. He probably ran a background check too.
It's not that women allow it. It's more about men setting their standard in the courting process. After all women don't ask men out, men do. So, it should be clear that men are asking women out the way they're comfortable doing it.
You might say men will do what women want if all women ask the same thing, that's where competition in the dating market comes in. There many sellers (beautiful women) who are competing for very few buyers (The men you want).
I agree that modern men have gotten a bit lazy and they will try to pursue a relationship with you via text w/out you even properly getting to know their voice. I feel their is "sometimes" allowed more of a connection when you "speak" with someone and are allowed to have that ear to ear contact which can give the man a leg up because he may seem more sincere when speaking rather than texting. Women do allow men to get away with it though I'm old fashioned as well and if you want to get to know me find time to call me, but as women you have to let a man know from the beginning "hey I don't mind texting sometimes, but 80% of our conversation needs to be speaking" or else we won't be communicating at all. Once I let guys know how I like to be treated, guess what they treat you that way lol and he if he still refuses to stop texting you instead of calling then move on.
I will only call a girl once to evaluate her interest. I'll not leave a message but I'll text ex to tell her who that was. If she doesn't return the call or the text, it's over right there.
It's not that we're lazy. It's just what we can put up with. THAT'S MY STANDARD.
I don't get that, though. Why not just leave a voicemail saying "Hey, it's ____"? It's easily killing two birds with one stone, if nothing else. Unless, of course, you want to be able to say that you made "two" attempts at communicating.
You actually get it right. I made two attempts to communicate with you. That's a lot for me to put out. If I don't receive any answer, I'll cut my loss and move on.
The advancement of technology is great and everything but if our main form of communication is through text then chances are we aren't going anywhere.
I think it's a combination of technology, laziness, and thirsty women. Thirsty women will take any piece of communication as a declaration that you love her and she needs to start choosing bridesmaids. That said, as a woman, I call someone twice and leave a message. If they don't call me back, it's done. With all this technology there's no excuse. There's a text response to say he got the message and will call later. There's IM that works right from phones. There's e-mail. There's FB mail. There are so many ways that a person can respond to you (if you leave a clear message) that anyone who doesn't is choosing to ignore you.
"…as a woman, I call someone twice and leave a message. If they don’t call me back, it’s done."
This is my standard too. I usually don't have to call first because normally I've given him my number as well, but for the sake of equality let's say I do (b/c I have before). One text (maybe), two phone calls and a VM letting you know it was me is all you are getting up out of me if I'm not sensing equal interest.
The funniest thing is (and I'm woman enough to admit it) this happened not too long ago… I was befuddled because it'd never happened before. LMAO. I couldn't understand for the life of me why I wasn't hearing from him on the regular already. He seemed super interested when I gave him my number… then I remembered this is probably just Karma for all the times I'd given out my # with no intention to answer. Lol. I had to laugh at myself…
Ha. I don't call first either. I was writing more about what happens once we've spoken, gone out on a date, etc. I just feel like if he was interested, he would respond to my two attempts. And unless he's dead, he would. The truth is, my time management skills are so great, I can make time to chase behind a man but I just choose not to. I don't have to and the type of men who work best with me are usually suspicious of women who chase behind them when those women appear to not have to chase behind said man.
Men do what's required to succeed with women….period.
Men aren't lazy, were just paying the price of admission…..which has drastically dropped in the last 60 years. And that has EVERYTHING to do with women, not men.
Despite all the advancements in communication, if a women required a REAL phone call/convo, a REAL date, etc……men would comply. But since women are giving it up for a few text messages, that's what men are doing. Who in their right mind would pay full price when there's a BIG ass sign that says "75% off"?
So this isn't a reflection of men's laziness, it's a reflection of women's lack of a screening process before panty dropping time.
And it's all about having integrity with your standards. Women want to be free to drop drawers for 10 texts message with 1 guy, yet try to make the next guy take her on 3 dates………….and expect the next guy to ignore the fact that women are getting it popping for far less. Then they get mad when a guy wants it for the same price of admission as the last guy paid. They gotta have integrity with their standards if they want to be treated in a certain manner.
No one would shop at a store that didn't have price tags, and determined the price of the product based on the buyer. There's a level of comfort and trust in know that you're paying the same price as the next man.
"Men do what’s required to succeed with women….period."
Yup. It's not that men have become lazy it's that women accept and reward lazy behaviour by giving up the pums.
@Rick
"Men aren’t lazy, were just paying the price of admission…..which has drastically dropped in the last 60 years. And that has EVERYTHING to do with women, not men"
Cosign. I'd also like to add that some women need to choose wisely who they want to make work for it. Dont let Thugnificent or Captain Cornball get it in how he wants when he wants and come to me on some courting ish.
I know you are serious here @Humble_One but I'm laughing b/c Thugnificent or Cap't Cornball get the drawls after 3 texts (not from me mind you) b/c she doesn't want them long term… you should be honored she wants you to court her… lmao.
So Flyy, as a guy often categorized as a "catch" and a "nice guy", trust me, that honor sh!t gets old real fast.
So because she can see herself with me long term, I'm expected to court, spend money and be all creative on dates, send thoughtful texts, talk on the phone, cuddle and watch crappy movies, empathize with everything going on in her life, etc, to get the draws; but this other dude doesn't even have to pretend to her a$$, arrive at her house at 2:30 am, beat it up, leave at 3:30 am, and not even have to call afterwards? Yeah, she can keep her honor and give me the pu$$y.
Lmao. Hugh, I think we've had this discussion before. I can't really take it any further than this b/c I expect the same thing out of all the men I date…
however, I've seen other women use these type of guidelines when they date. I actually don't think they are following any type of rules either… they just do what comes natural to them. And if I naturally think you a nice guy, I'll want you to think I'm a nice girl, no? Makes sense to me.
It makes sense, and I'm definitely not talking about you in particular, but it's hard to keep being a nice guy and observe bad guys get rewarded with much less effort.
It goes both ways Hugh, but I feel you and this "Yeah, she can keep her honor and give me the pu$$y." murked my soul! LOL
@Flyy
Honor is fine and dandy but it does nothing for blue b@lls. Like Hugh said while the man you think is LTR material is busting his butt courting and listening to you Capt Cornball is smanging with no effort.
@Humble_One
That doesn't mean she's not giving up it ever… I mean she is trying to build a relationship w/ you… maybe the prahlem is the you and she don't have the same goals. I'm assuming that she is trying to build a relationship… if she wanted a relationship w/ you and let you smang it off break like Thugnificent you would #no-sign that woman asaptually.
HughJazz: Yeah, she can keep her honor and give me the pu$$y.
Well Damn!!! *lmaooooo
But I understand. 🙂
HumbleOne: "Honor is fine and dandy but it does nothing for blue b@lls. Like Hugh said while the man you think is LTR material is busting his butt courting and listening to you Capt Cornball is smanging with no effort."
Wow!!! You mens are funny. If I can recall from many blogs/posts here and on other sites isn't the above scenario a similar method you use when you are looking for a potential GF/LTR. You don't wanna pressure the girl to drop the panties until she's ready, you want to be seen as THAT DUDE so what do you do in the meantime … (walk around with blue balls)??? o__O GTFOH
You run thru your jumpoff/sidepiece/cut buddy in the meantime until Virtuous Jane is ready to bless you with her goodness.
They don't hear you though…
*hums softly* "It's a maaan's world…"
GirlSixx: "Wow!!! You mens are funny. If I can recall from many blogs/posts here and on other sites isn’t the above scenario a similar method you use when you are looking for a potential GF/LTR. You don’t wanna pressure the girl to drop the panties until she’s ready, you want to be seen as THAT DUDE so what do you do in the meantime … (walk around with blue balls)??? o__O GTFOH
You run thru your jumpoff/sidepiece/cut buddy in the meantime until Virtuous Jane is ready to bless you with her goodness.
Maybe I need to clarify because it does sound hypocritical when out of context.
The point (at least by me) made before is on a societal level women need to practice not giving it up so easily. When men don't have other options, then behavior modifies. Then it will be difficult to have jumpoffs, sidepieces and cut buddies, and women get relationships on their terms.
Men want $ex, but it isn't easy for the average guy to get it. That doesn't mean we don't want a relationship/marriage eventually, but women lowered the price of $ex to the point just about any guy who is a four or higher can get it with little effort. So we certainly will be sowing our royal oats like I told my son Akeem, until we get bored or find that special someone. Want us to stop? Women as a whole need to stop giving it away for cheap, raise the price of $ex back up so we have to save up and work hard to be able to afford it.
I co-sign this:
“Men aren’t lazy, were just paying the price of admission…..which has drastically dropped in the last 60 years. And that has EVERYTHING to do with women, not men”
Cosigning the Humble one. When women are younger (HS and College), this was a helluva lot more likely to happen. I can understand the allure and all the other typical sh*t that's done during those years. But please. Please don't be like 30 and I know your last 5 men were sub-par negroes that wore shirts with "Gus" on the tag and you let them run all up in the coochie with minimal effort, but now I gotta dig out the manual of 1800s post-slave chivalry. My stomach will hurt.
so sad because i see this all the time.
you know, i've never even met thugnificent or captain cornballs. like, i never get approached by that kind of guy. i don't really know what to make of it but i always ask people like where did you meet this dude? it's strange. i know they exist… guess i'm not good (bad?) enough for them. lol. good though cause i'd never date them anyhow. still strange.
@ Muze
You can find them at places like Walmart and Winn Dixie.
Oh and Jiffy Lube… they run in full supply.
Wait….Winn Dixie still exists???
@ Corey
Surprisingly, yes.
I have to agree with this.
"Men do what’s required to succeed with women….period."
[/thread]
HALLEYUER *madea voice without the dress….*
Goodness Adonis, you are EVERYWHERE! And your message is always the same, (black) women bashing! Ok, Adonis, well done. We get your point. Now please stop hammering on the same issue over and over again? Damn! You've completely lost any kind of objectiveness. This sh*t must be personal to you. Do you work? You seem to have way too much time on your hands. That must be why no (black) woman wants to get with you and that makes you mad. I'm assuming you're mad? No? You sure do sound like it.
Good Morning Tracie,
I hope everything is well…
I see I get around on these eStreets… I am glad I am getting the message out there…
Now, please, run along and have a few orgasms any way you please… & then come talk to me about my anti-bw stance… I promise I will bust a few nuts myself…
Adonis
I don't know if it's just my generation…or just ME…but I just can't get with all of this texting and carrying on….I do text. Only, to say hi…or ask a question…never to carry on a lengthy conversation and certainly not in the place of a telephone call. I like to hear my man's voice over the phone caressing my phone line….that is what is going to get the job done for me…not a text with a smiley face at the end……Men, who only text…don't you know your voice, tone and everything is a poverful communicator….you can't get all that from a text…I can't tell you how many texts I mis-interpreted the tone…I think, too much can be read into a text….just pick up the phone. No man is going to get me by just texting and that's all……My current SO hates to text and we are around the same age…so, maybe it is generational..out of all of my friends,,,maybe, only 1 texts all the time…the others are just really getting into it….
WIM, I agree…Men are getting lazy with courting….I want you to do an experiment….the next time you like a young lady….don't do the texting thing…pick up the phone, leave a VM…and see what happens…don't text AT ALL…just call her and see what happens….Ok?
If I met a man and he came out of the gate calling without texting/tweeting/IM'ing first I would look sideways at him. That's getting too familiar too soon in my book.
Really? but you gave him your phone number….that suggests to me you want to communicate with him..is there a protocol for this…do you text first and then call? Is it really like that….I am so out of the loop on this one then.
For me, being able to actually speak to me on the phone is the ultimate level of connectivity. I rarely speak to my friends or my family so I'm certainly not going to speak to a near-stranger.
In my mind the protocol is 1. non-verbal communication i.e text/IM, 2. in-person contact 3. phone calls.
@Max … ITA! I HATE HATE HATE talking on the phone. I hardly ever talk to friends or family over the phone unless it's something quick and perfunctory, like "When do you want to meet?" or "I'm going to be late" or "Can you pick something up on your way home?"
I don't want to get to know someone over the phone. I feel like I need time to edit/think about what I am saying when talking to a new guy. Sometimes because of my nerves I'm just not quick enough on my feet to come up with cute/charming/intelligent things to say on the fly without the help of body language and ambiance.
If I get stuck in the conversation in person I can get out of trouble by using a physical distraction like flipping my hair, biting my lip (in a sexy way), smiling or subtly adjusting my boobs (haha). Or I can change the subject by commenting on something around us or complimenting the guy. I don't have those things to fall back on over the phone.
@Max: Calling first is too familiar?? Serious?? I clearly am showing my age, because I think a whole bunch of texting is impersonal. I'm glad I'm out of game for good now; it just seems to be getting worser and worser than even just a few years ago.
How old are you if you don't mind sharing??
I'm too old to blame it on a generational thing. Let's say that.
"I’m glad I’m out of game for good now"
Gurrrrl…whew!!
Max is making an interesting point. It's one that I don't think I've heard from a woman before. I am intrigued. Very intrigued.
@Max…well, when you explain it like that I guess I can see why you prefer a text first. I guess, it's to each their own..but my other question is, do you tell the guys this upfront…because they may assume they can call you FIRST not understanding what it is that you prefer and why……
If I give a man my number and he says "I'll call you" I say "I probably won't answer, I'm not a phone person. Why don't you text me instead?"
Say it with a smile on your face and a promise in your eyes and you will not have a problem.
@max… i agree with you somewhat.
if i give a man my number and he calls first, with no "this is so and so, how are you?" text beforehand at some point, i find it weird. lol. but if he never calls and only texts, i call that uninterested or lazy. especially if you make it known that he can call as well.
you're right, the phone is oddly intimate, so i'm very selective in who i actually talk to and my vmail speaks to people more than i do, but in determining a man's interest, i think calling is definitely a big sign.
"…I can't tell you how many texts I mis-interpreted the tone…I think, too much can be read into a text….just pick up the phone.
Same here. Call me old fashion but we need to be able to carry on a conversation on the phone.
I honestly don't think I have ever in my life misinterpreted the tone of a text message. Maybe I'm some kind of text-reading prodigy….
@QueenT @Max: It definitely depends on the woman. The woman in question – for this story anyway – was, I believe, 23 or so. Generally speaking, any woman I talk to over the age of 25 = more phone calls. Any woman I talk to under 25 = more texts. #NoStereotypes, that's just been my experience.
I dated a girl for about a year and a half, even lived together at one point and we ALWAYS text. It was very rare that we talked on the phone, if ever. To Rick's point above, I'm going to adapt to the woman and that's real. If a woman only wants to text, I'm fine with that. If she prefers talking on the phone, I'm fine with that too. This is one situation where, contrary to popular belief, women lead and don't even realize it. In other words, a man cant make you talk/text if you dont want to.
On the flip, if you give it up for a few text messages, then you've set the bar for yourself and he's going to equate text messages as the easiest means of communicating with and "dating" you – and he will continue to do the minimum if you let him.
"Men, who only text…don’t you know your voice, tone and everything is a powerful communicator…."
Lawd almighty this! That growl in your ear of a man's tone and cadence, can
ruin a pair or pantiestake a 6 to a 9 real quick…100% #cosign the importance of hearing a man's voice on the phone. LOVE IT 🙂
I don't think men have gotten lazy, I think men do what works for them. I believe a man will only do something that yielded positive results in the past. So if texting chicks and no real dates worked for the last 4 girls, he's going to do it with the next. Once he comes across a girl that won't stand for that he'll either put in the real effort of calling her and seeing her or he will move on to someone who will let him continue what he's done in the past.
And there you have it!
great post. i agree.
it seems men are of two extremes… those that feel like a text or two should be enough for you to know they 'really like' you, and those that are of the "i texted you 3 times then tweeted you and i saw you tweet and i know you read my bbm and didn't respond" OD variety. both of these are the opposite of winners.
i believe men can get away with developing text relationships to get the fanny because most women place enormous value on words. if he says he loves you, despite his actions being the opposite, a lot of women will stick around. thus, a man sending sweet enough messages can make one feel like he really does feel that way, even though he could be laughing and shaking his head at the easiness of it all. and technology has made courting more lazy in general, because women do the same thing.
i know that men in general are not phone people, as has been clearly stated on this and lots of other male blogs, but i've never not had a man call me if he was interested in me. so … that's one of the things i judge a man's interest by. if you never want to speak to or see me, how can i determine that as you sincerely liking me? you're nothing more than a good writer at that point. i've learned in life that people, especially men, make time for what (and who) they want, period. even the busiest man, if he's truly wanting to see you or speak to you, will do so if you are a priority. i could be wrong, but i've seent it with my own eyes. even in seeing how my male friends interact with different women, i can determine right away if he really likes her or not.
not saying that text/IM/facebook/whateverelse can't help a relationship, because there are few things more entertaining than the constant communication (and outlet during the day) that IM provides, but if you expect to go from solely texting/IMing to sexing… definitely not. unless of course that's all the two of you are to be.
"i’ve learned in life that people, especially men, make time for what (and who) they want, period. even the busiest man, if he’s truly wanting to see you or speak to you, will do so if you are a priority."
I live by that statement! People make time for what they want to make time for regardless of how busy they are! I think thats a major red flag that alot of people (men and women) miss. People always make excuses for someone they don't see often saying, oh well they are just busy. But busy people have free time too and if they want you to be part of that limited free time they will surely make sure that happens.
i had a friend whose guy was always too busy. i said to her one day, Barack has time for Michelle, and he's running the country … what's his excuse? jussaying.
^^LOL! Check. Mate.
@Muze: "i said to her one day, Barack has time for Michelle, and he’s running the country."
Damn.
*slithers away into the darkness of the forest*
“i said to her one day, Barack has time for Michelle, and he’s running the country.”
-I know this is somewhat suppose to be taking in jest, but the reality of this specific situation is that they're married and have children. That's a whole different level of priority then the "just dating" or "getting to know one another" phase. Nice analogy and all, but I have to negate the Check Mate on this one.
@Larry …ummm pretty sure he didn't meet her at age 45 as a president hopeful and then children magically appeared. they've been together for a long time. and he's been busy for just as long. it was an extreme example and a joke… but even barack and michelle dated, and if he hadn't made time for her, i'm pretty sure she wouldn't be the First Lady currently.
Real talk.
That is all.
@ Muze, my whole point is as one's relationship progresses then the S/O moves further up the priority list. Of course Barack made time for her, but I'm just as sure on various occasions he let her know he was too busy for X Y and Z and her the same. She was probably too busy for him a few times and nothing is wrong with that. I know it's a joke, hence my precursor of it being said in jest. As an aside I usually find that when one person complains that the person they are "dating" or "talking to" is always busy, the complainer typically doesn't have much or as many things going on in their lives outside the relationship to keep them busy (hobbies, volunteering..anything). If the person they're interested in has hobbies, interests, commitments and the such then there is a good change he/she may really be busy, but really does want to spend time with that person, but not at the specific time the other person wants to. But alas, all of this just depends on where people are in the relationship (just met, dating or married) to accurately interpret what "being busy" ultimately means. And yes, it obviously can very well mean he/she is not interested as well. That is not debatable…just not the only reason. IMHO.
So true Muze
And this right here:
"if he says he loves you, despite his actions being the opposite, a lot of women will stick around. thus, a man sending sweet enough messages can make one feel like he really does feel that way, even though he could be laughing and shaking his head at the easiness of it all."
Men are about action & words have little to do with it. Most of that digital wordplay is less than heartfelt & serves one purpose: to de-thong us in less than 50 texts!! HA!
"i’ve learned in life that people, especially men, make time for what (and who) they want, period. even the busiest man, if he’s truly wanting to see you or speak to you, will do so if you are a priority."
Reminds me of the book " He's just not that into you", no man (or woman) is ever too busy to call.
“i’ve learned in life that people, especially men, make time for what (and who) they want, period. even the busiest man, if he’s truly wanting to see you or speak to you, will do so if you are a priority.”
Women do the same thing. If I'm not important enough to even respond to then why should I bother with her even if I'm interested. I'm trying to make time…she isn't.
We do love us some pretty words…
Everybody is lazy as hell. We're just lazy society. Look at all these little fat kids waddling around here. That being said, telephones DO work both ways. I'm not about to stalk you to get a date. I can't believe the HG spazzed on you after you put in your effort. It's not like you dumped your girlfriend cause she didn't return a phonecall in a timely manner. How much attempted communication is too much? Where's the line ladies?
"Look at all these little fat kids waddling around here."
THIS made me howl at work. DAMB you Corey!! Lmao.
I can't answer your question though b/c every woman is different. For me… if he calls three times and I don't answer, I'm not going to answer. However, that b/c I'm usually prompt with the call backs.
I have to admit, I have become attached to people I have met over the internet. I don't think men are necessarily being easy & women are being easy…I just think it is due to convenience. Times are rough and people, including myself, are way TOO busy to date and have relationships traditionally. I don't really like talking on the phone for long periods of times so text messaging does the trick. And since we're being honest, as far as that paid less than $1 for sex was bogus. What kind of prostitution is going on? I do not plan to have sex with a guy based on the amount of money he has spent on me. It's all about the connection we have as well as the amount of time we spend together. #justsaying
**proposes on e-knee**
I think most men are down to do whatever it takes to get the woman they want – in whatever way they want her.
I think it's on women to inspire men to court them. Text messaging is like the greatest thing to ever happen to the single dude. It enables you to be in constant communication, and to give the semblance of building a relationship, without ever really having to do so. More than that, it plays on one of womens' greatest weaknesses – the fact that the project like crazy. It allows women to create everything they're looking for at the time in their head and project it onto you without that pesky little thing called reality messing it all up. Makes your job, as a single dude way easier because, all you have to do is not say something to mess it all up when you guys get together in person. She's done all the work herself. She G'd herself, you just have to close.
Ladies, y'all gotta learn how to inspire a man to court you in 2011.
I agree Most..if you start ignoring some of those texts…and if you tell the guy you aren't going to be courted over a keyboard..they will get the message..either they will step up or roll out.
"Makes your job, as a single dude way easier because, all you have to do is not say something to mess it all up when you guys get together in person. She’s done all the work herself. She G’d herself, you just have to close."
No arguement here. *Hangs head in shame*
"It enables you to be in constant communication, and to give the semblance of building a relationship, without ever really having to do so. More than that, it plays on one of womens’ greatest weaknesses – the fact that the project like crazy. It allows women to create everything they’re looking for at the time in their head and project it onto you without that pesky little thing called reality messing it all up."
Yup.
TMIMITW: "Text messaging is like the greatest thing to ever happen to the single dude. It enables you to be in constant communication, and to give the semblance of building a relationship, without ever really having to do so."
GREATEST QUOTE OF ALL TIME!
I see this alot, good post. Technology can be good or bad, it all depends on how you use it. For example, only texting and no voice convo is a fail in my book however texting <del>sexting</del> during the day and then talking late at night is WINNING. I love sitting at my desk and getting a sporatic "I wanna lick you" text then getting home and talking about it later. OR skype….God bless skype. See, I'm a technology girl but I use it to enhance my love life, not replace it. At the end of the day, I wanna SEE you. *avatar girl voice* I need that physical, that deep voice and those man arms. Words on a screen aint s.exy after a while. The good thing about all of of this technology is that we can use it to better stay in touch with others. Some of us just abuse it and hence stay losing when they don't get the fulfillment they need out of others. Then they resort to massive amounts of online p0rn and video game playing. N*gga get off that couch! What was I saying again? Anywho, I kind of agree with Psyche as well. People do what works for them so if a man is getting poon with minimal effort, well kudos to him. I don't hate on that. Just don't be mad at the women who require alittle more.
What's wrong with a little immediate gratification? In some ways we're all lazy…men & women. But I also think all of those texts, emails, IMs, FB msgs, etc take a lot of women back to a place of girlie giddiness…like passing notes in math class or some shyt. It feels kind of sweet & playful & who wouldn't want to feel butterflies like that?
Fellas you want to really impress. Stop by and bring her a sandwich. Call to hear her voice. Take her out dancing on some Love Jones shyt. Take a walk in the park on some Jill Scott shyt. Just do something other than send a crafty text with a cute emoticon.
"Stop by and bring her a sandwich."
This!
I'm really not awake yet. This whole herbal tea thing isn't working for me. I will say that if you're really interested in a woman you will pursue her with more than a few lazy text messages. You may even need to ask her out. How did you get that date to the prom WIM? Just curious. LOL.
LMAO! Yeah if you didn't see the show last night on WIM's twitter, you are missing out, lol.
Did you not see my prom suit?!? I think this question answers itself.
*adjusts hat*
EmeraldStarr78: "I would probably say that some modern men have become too lazy to court because the women they deal with allow it."
Rick: "Men do what’s required to succeed with women….period.
Men aren’t lazy, were just paying the price of admission…..which has drastically dropped in the last 60 years. And that has EVERYTHING to do with women, not men."
This says it all. Men are smart, and we know how to react, adopt and evolve when the game changes. If women are giving it up after a few texts, why put in more effort? A lot of dudes will sleep with the campus h0, because they can get what they want without much effort. When more and more women start acting in a similar manner, start giving it up easily and say this is the standard for courting, that tells men what level of effort is necessary to receive $ex. It's free market principles in action. As Dave Chappelle said, if a man could fcuk in a cardboard box, he wouldn't buy a house.
If women don't inspire us to do better, we won't. Why should we?
I knew those economic classes I took in college would be applicable somewhere in life. Just didn't think it'd be a comment on a blog.lol
When reading economic text books, it's almost surreal how closely economic principles align with dating priniciples.
"As Dave Chappelle said, if a man could fcuk in a cardboard box, he wouldn’t buy a house."
Real estate agencies would be giving people tours of cardboard boxes. And we'd pay top dollar for them.
*deceased*
I guess the fracture in where I'm coming from and where you're coming from comes in where you are assuming it's about hitting and I'm assuming it's about building an actual relationship….silly me. I always forget.
+1
Starita: I guess the fracture in where I’m coming from and where you’re coming from comes in where you are assuming it’s about hitting and I’m assuming it’s about building an actual relationship….silly me. I always forget."
Again, a man can get into a relationship quite easily, it's the $ex that's hard to come by. So when $ex is made readily available, guess what most men are going to go after? The relationship will come.
For women, they can have $ex anytime they want (don't go there Max!). So they will value the relationship more.
Hugh….don't open that can of worms again!
You couldn't fix my typo though? 😉
Totally agree Hugh. Women dictate how they want to be approached and men follow. Btw it's good to see you're still around the blogs.
He got him a boo thang and up and left us :-p
Been busy at work and probably will be most of the spring and summer. I'm only commenting so much today because it's raining and I can't get out in the field today. That's and my boss is on vacation.
Actually Humble, I thought you abandoned the blogs.
Yes modern men have become lazy in the courting phase, but then again we do play a significant part in that.
I know for MYSELF, I am quick to tell dude once numbers are exchanged how much I LOATHE the phone, but we can text, bbm, IM throughout the day and if/when I am up to phone chatter I will simply text him to "call me at such -n- such time" and we go from there. So Far So Good. No Problems
EXACTLY!! I hate talking on the phone. I'm trying to get a face to face so I can work my mojo. However, this cannot occur if certain people (ladies) don't answer the phone.
I dig it. Look at you being self reflective and ish.
This post is just a lil too much like right. And I think the apex of the issue is that for a lot of women, we like the "in each other's head" type getting to know one another. So by gchatting all day, getting to know each other through the comments section, by reading your every post on FB, talking on the phone and texting, we are able to gain this familiarity and develop an intimacy that is much less common for men to feel without physical interaction. Again, this is in just my experience, obviously it won't apply to every female or every male, but I do think gender plays a role. So while you're doing the least, her imagination could be doing the most and filling in all the gaps with sort of a fantasy. This is why these "virtual" relationships are so fragile. And why she feels cool giving up the panties and you feel like she gave it up with "no real work". It was just a different kind of work than you are used to….you effed her brain first, so $1 or $200 later, you're in like Flynn.
Yes, we've all gotten lazy. Not just with dating, but with human interactions in general. A coworker will come to me asking for help with their computer and I literally tell them to send me an e-mail about it…when they are standing right there, asking me in person… O_O We've all had a night out with friends and then it seems we spend half of our time texting folks that AREN'T there or tweeting about what we're doing instead of being present in the moment…this is our life now…when a convo is happening and you make a reference that someone doesn't understand, you no longer explain it, you pull out your smart phone and show them. I can't call it if all this is good or bad, but I can tell you it's making me lazy. I'll type my feelings/opinions all day long (obviously); but ask me to talk about it…and you better be a pretty close friend, cause…well, that's a lot of work.
I think laziness depends on a guy's goal. If he just wants sex then why would he court? He isn't trying to make a long term investment. Now if he likes you then it's another story. Of course he should put forth the effort. But just sex? No. Especially for those of us in our 30s and late 20s. That being said I don't see too many self respecting men chasing women to get to know her. If after 3 calls, text messages, or voicemails (in any combination of 3 attempts to contact you) there is no reply I'm moving on. If you want me to pull cirque du soleil tricks upfront and I barely know you you're crazy. I've dealt with enough women to know that when they are interested they will make the effort to give a positive response.
Okay I mainly skimmed the comments but here we go…
I think everyone has their own definition of courting. From my perspective women see it as chasing. Men don't like to chase when there is not positive reinforcement (as covered in the write up a while back). To me if we are dating I haven't even hit the courting stage. Once we are exclusive and I see a future with you then I'll court. I'll start making incremental changes for the better of me and the relationship. No way I'm doing this for a chick that shows minimal interest and wants the 5 start treatment while giving me 2 star response.
Relationships and dating go both ways. Neither side can get mad that the other isn't doing what they want when 1) it isn't being demanded 2) it hasn't been discussed.
I'm not playing the "Should just know" game.
I normally post a comment and dip out, but had to check back in. Again, people only do what you allow them to- period. And we all have had a stupid moment or two, but that should expire at some point. Trying to date by text only just isn't smart. It's ridiculous. Folks need to check their standards for courtship, etc…
Haha @Slim for all I know, he very well could have run a background check on her. Dude was a serious con-artist.
oh I Cosign Muze & QueenT
Good Morning… I will have some fun with this…
The Internet & technology has been a gift to men in general…
As a man, I love to court… But the problem with courting, personally, is that women play games in courtship…
COURTSHIP IS FUN WHEN YOU KNOW IT WILL COME TO ITS CONCLUSION – SEX…
But when she is trying to string you along… courtship is not fun anymore…
Now, that we are in the information era… & a microwave society (instant gratification)… Men getting s*x as been easier than ever <DEL> unless your name is Adonis, & you are extremely lazy, like me </DEL>… And it has hurt relationships…
I don't know of any HARD & FAST solutions to this… Or maybe it will figure itself out…
All I know… I will just take advantage & be thankful for the easy s*x
Seems like its easier to call men lazy thatn it is to admit the truth……….women have gotten extremely easy.
Even the "good girls" have had a random f*ck or two.
A lot of this has to do with privilege, sorry to break the silence but it is.
The reason why you can't get a man to court you is because he knows something… you need him more than he needs you. Tell you something I tell every chick in DC about men in DC, of course they can't talk to women or date women or know how to treat a woman … you women have made it way too easy for them. It's like 1 man to every 8 women out here, those women are desperate. Quite frankly, unless you are like one of thee baddest chicks on the scene, "I don't have to do squat" and that baddest chick on the block, I just got to get her to like me and think i'm better than all the other ain't skit negroes on the scene. Then she go Chante on me. It's about privilege.
Back in the day dude's were courting chicks because of a few reasons:
1) They hadn't given it up to nobody and they wanted to be first. Welp, nowadays, that ain't the case, dudes probably already know at least 3 dudes you let hit.
2) She was pretty and had her life together. I mean… I guess so, but I live in DC. "Yeah I like you, but not enough to wife you." – Asher Roth
3) Women had self-respect. Honestly the same amount of men who lack chivalry parellels the amount of women who have no self-respect. There's just no excuse for the behavior we see out here on the streets. The same chicks who love India Arie know all the words to Khia. Now i'm not saying this is all women, i'm just saying there's a significant amount.
As it goes for me, I date, meaning I ask girls out on dates. I tell you one thing though, lot of women out there don't even know what a date is, or how to behave on one. Shown by these types of responses:
1) Do you want to meet for drink? — No I said, date. As in time to get to know you.
2) I can do it at 6PM, I have to meet my friend for her birthday party later that night. — Great you've just shown me where your priorities are.
3) Well, what you trying to do? — 1) I don't invite Black people to places without telling them where they're going, that's how the Africans got got. 2) Your response suggests that you think i'm not able to present viable options. 3) Don't talk to me in slang when I ask you out, it's unbecoming of a lady.
Man i'm off this, I could go on for a whole day about this, but my gchat is popping right now.
"1) I don't invite Black people to places without telling them where they're going, that's how the Africans got got."
I almost choked while reading this. I wasn't ready…
Wait. *scratcheshead*
I don't see where the problem lies in #2.
She already had plans for a friends b-day after you asked her out (I'm assuming) but she was still trying to accommodate you. How and Why is that a problem?
I think no one wants to feel rushed on a date.
Like I told my friend. Men just notice things like that. They do. They immediately throw you into a category of a girl who is not ready to settle down. The type of man you want to marry wants to feel like you're important to him and that he's the only thing on the plate for that night. In all reality, you could just go home and then go out later and he would never know. (Hope you don't run into each other later, that's awkward.) Don't make him feel like you're squeezing him into your schedule, or planning around your fun.
*Please heed this as a man telling you how men think.*
Oh…
Hmmmm, You got a point.
Thanks!!!
*IOweSomeoneAnApologyText** #FML
I learned that the hard way. After a date (I wasnt ready to go home but didnt want to end up at his place) I got my girl to pick me up, I should have just let him take me home and then I could have carried on from there.
Yea… I never heard from him again. lol!
Dr. J: "2) I can do it at 6PM, I have to meet my friend for her birthday party later that night. — Great you’ve just shown me where your priorities are."
GirlSixx says: "I don’t see where the problem lies in #2. She already had plans for a friends b-day after you asked her out (I’m assuming) but she was still trying to accommodate you. How and Why is that a problem?"
If she was interested, she would want to spend time and not have to rush off to do something else because she'd expect things to go well. She wouldn't have a built-in excuse to leave. She would say, "my friend is having a birthday party on Friday, but I'm free Saturday after 4. Let's meet up then."
I have to say I noticed that in D.C. Men stare, smile, wink etc EXCEPT approach. I had one guy ask my cousin why I looked away…because you wasn't saying anything?! I didn't understand it. I saw alot of guys who were pretty <del>and feminine</del> and started to think that maybe these men are just too catered to because I have to admit the women seemed very aggressive. I guess things are different from state to state. The female/male ratio is about the same out here but we do things alittle slower or maybe we're not caught up on the times but the men usually approach and express interest. It's not that I mind it, it's that I'm not used to it. I can't even picture myself approaching a strange man like that.
I so feel you on the knowing how to date. If I had a dollar for every man that wanted to "meet up for drinks" on a Tues, Wed night, etc. Huh? Can we sit down for a formal dinner on the weekend like normal people? I got the impression they just wanted to see me quickly to scope me out before they dedicated any time. Mi no likee.
I so feel you on the knowing how to date. If I had a dollar for every man that wanted to “meet up for drinks” on a Tues, Wed night, etc. Huh? Can we sit down for a formal dinner on the weekend like normal people? I got the impression they just wanted to see me quickly to scope me out before they dedicated any time. Mi no likee.
I think there are post written about this… and it brings up the gender war/evolutionary battle between men & women…
I don't mind going out to a formal dinner unless she is footing the bill… <DEL> even if I am BALLING out of control… But I am not </DEL> We have to have some type of discussion beforehand…
I take women out who I am already sleeping with… Makes no sense to take women out if I am not getting any p*ssy out of the deal…<DEL> (Call it prostitution, whatever… I like to get the most out of my money…) </DEL>
That is not cost efficient…
Personally, I like going out to drinks for the first date so I can gauge if I actually like this person to subject myself to dinner with them.
To Adonis, any woman who is letting you smash without ever properly taking them out (at least a real dinner date) is playing herself lovely or she's just interested in you on a pure physical tip.
I hope she doesn't feel that way… But for the women who do get a chance to sleep with me… They should know that dinner dates are not the end all & be all & she is getting with MY program…
My way or the highway
*Sidenote* Is it wrong of me if I bypass a woman's comment on SBM if her gravatar isnt cute or sexy.
Anyway, good day to all. Currently, I attend an HBCU and recently my great aunt straight up asked me "do people court anymore?" I just started to laugh because obviously this was something that either intrigued or troubled her. I answered her laughingly with a "No".
"Courting" especially for college students is played out. It's actually the reverse, guys spend time with you then take you out. Rather than take you out to then spend time in the future. Spending time or hanging out usually means sex, and I'm okay with that. No matter how fast you give the goodies up if a man likes you or wants to be with you- a woman will ultimately get what she wants; phone calls, texts, etc.
There is a misconception that men like to chase. Men like to chase women only and if only they know its a 80% chance they will be able to smash. Men only chase things that they find somewhat obtainable rather in romance or professional life. Once we believe we can obtain the poonina our pursuit is more obsession than interest. however after sex a woman worth talking to will maintain this interest.
Technology has just become a better tool to do the same bullsh!t we've been doing, much has not changed. Tech. just gives us a larger pool of women.
"*Sidenote* Is it wrong of me if I bypass a woman’s comment on SBM if her gravatar isnt cute or sexy."
iBout died.
LOL……..I have to play the fence on this one.
On one side, you got the issue of the growing number of men who have this "momma's boy" disorder……always look'n for a woman to run behind him and do for him like his momma did. Momma got him use to being "lazy"…because she did EVERYTHING for him. Basically Baby'n him til he's 16…..then at 18….she wants to treat him like he's a legal adult?? Never taught how to work for anything, because even when he did bad in school, he still got the shoes and clothes or toys or electronic gear he wanted……lol How is that teaching him to work for what he want's…??
On the flip side……..approaching a woman?? Especially a black woman?? Picture Dwight Howard and Shak, jockying for position under the goal…….that's what a black man has to go thru when approaching a sistah now a days…..allllllll because a lot of em want the rest of man kind to suffer for what the last two brutha's did to her. Or too defensive……or has generalized and lumped alllll men into the same pot. I'm not running no obstecle course to prove I'm not like the ones in your past….I didn't do it, so I shouldn't be treated as such!!
So why even bother with court'n now days……..You got "B- – -tch Made" men on one side…lazy….because their mothers did it all for them growing up….and on the other side, you have to have a shield, spear, and helmet on just to say hello to a sistah, because she's think'n you try'n to holla……lol smfh
I'm glad I am not the only person that sees this…
"I feel like the kid that did well in school but never studied. I have always done well with women without ever trying particularly hard. Now I’m in a transitional phase. I’m trying to get into the “ivy league” school; serious relationships with more substance and long-term sustainability than those I’ve entered into before. However, since I never learned to study, it has at times proven difficult and required more effort than I’m accustom to. Sure, I could continue with my familiar habits but they may not result in an acceptance letter: e.g. a serious relationship vs. additional superficial relationships. As women are all to eager to remind me, “nothing worth having comes easy.”"
W.I.M., get out of my brain!
Technology has definitely made us all lazy. People don't talk anymore. Phone call? What is that? I had a conversation with a guy I was dating and I told him we dont talk like we should. This fool tells me, "I text you everyday, so how you gonna say we dont talk?" NO SIR that is not talking that is TEXTING. Have you ever had someone try to have an argument via text or gchat. That ish is for the birds. Like Oooo let me see how mad I can seem when I type these words. I. CANNOT. I cant even fathom getting it in with a dude because of his text game. What?!!! If that is all we do, trust and believe I will not take you serious because that leads me to believe you do not know how to hold a conversation either in person or on the phone. Communication has become so impersonal these days.
"Have you ever had someone try to have an argument via text or gchat. Like Oooo let me see how mad I can seem when I type these words."
CTFU!!! because I've done it and gotten my point across. I'm nothin to fcuk with on the Qwerty Keyboard. 🙂
I have too and it just makes me even more mad that I have to have a fight via text. I say stuff that make a phone call necessary. I get down right gully with a qwerty lol
OK Let me drop textual ether for a second.
Communication is one of the most evolved forms of human society. It is constantly changing and improving. With these paradigm shifts in the way that we communicate with one another, society will also shift certain norms to account for said change.
Men are lazy because they text more? I'm sorry, I guess men are the only ones using text, facebook, twitter, blogs, BBM, Gchat, and email too right? SOME men might be lazy and only use these forms, but I argue that EVERYONE in the 21st century communicates primarily via digital communication!
Think about work. How many times does your boss or superior send a million email to convey messages? Think about client based contact. We been doing this!
I was ahead of my time with my phone. I had the $5 unlimited text plan when everyone said that was some "extra sh*t". With the advent of smart phones, everyone else caught the train!
I've primarily texted women before, hit it off, and won via text/bbm/gchat. I know more men can confess to this. Shoot,there was even one time I hooked up with a woman off straight email without ever meeting her in person prior, and she was of the "I'd rather a call" age bracket! (Saving story for a future book)
We all adapt to communication, but clearly it takes two to two-way, feel me? Ladies, you bytch about men being lazy via text. Do you text them to tellm them this? Do you continue to carry on digital conversation? How much do we ALL use those forms of communication?
I know women who rather text than talk. a 65-35 split I'd say. Yes talking on the phone is more personal and defiitely needed, but it isn't laziness for all men as its a societal shift in courting!
If you want more info on how the advent of technology affects the dating game, check out my article written on 21st century pimpin: http://www.singleblackmale.org/2009/08/05/technol…
QED
(Because I am lazy) QED stands for…?
It means "google it" in Latin
This is the first time I've seen QED used in a non-academic setting and I LOVE IT!
"We all adapt to communication, but clearly it takes two to two-way, feel me? Ladies, you bytch about men being lazy via text. Do you text them to tellm them this?"
*Pour out a little for TWIsM* R.I.P.
ActuaLOL
First off WIM, this was an excellent post. Definitely sharing and I wish I would have been around the computer when the comments were poppin lol.
Second, I don't think it's just men – all of us are getting lazy for pretty much every reason listed in the comments. S*x is cheaper and easier to get. Men don't have to put in as much work, so they don't. But I think this goes beyond the pumping factor. I tried to hit up one of my friends the other day (a female) to catch up on what's been going on in her life and she had the nerve to ask me why I didn't read her blog because her "entire life is right there."
….o_0 WHAT?!
No mama, I'm calling you because I want you to directly tell me how you've been, I don't want to hear about it via an IP address.
I once told a guy I don't accept date offers via text/bbm. Guess what? he called me (actually he asked for my # to call me–cuz all he had was bbm) then he asked me out. Also since he had my # I made it clear that I appreciated and expected phone calls if he wanted to further get to know me. Texting is cool during the day while im working and on occassions, but I'd like to hear your voice. I prefer it actually.
Because of technology I have grown tired of talking on the phone to be honest. I used to be a huuuuuge phone person, now I get in moods when I don't feel like it. And when I do its usually quick, to the point and with old friends or family. The days of sitting on the phone for hours are gone (unless me and mama are bonding). But when dealing with someone new its like, a surge of curiosity that makes me want to talk to them. And see them of course. I could never be courted textually alone. no way no how.
I think a man who calls me more than twice is desperate and annoying. If I want to talk, I'll answer and/or call/text back. No one should have to call or text more than two or three times. If the other person isn't replying, they're making it very obvious that they don't want to be bothered. If they do, they have the number so they make the next contact.
I want to meet these women that want men to call them six times before they answer the phone to "show his interest." Why the heck would he do that? Who are you? Probably the same chicks talmbout "Girl I don't know WHY he won't stop calling!"
As far as communication once we've gotten to the point that we're fucking? If we're in the same city we don't need to talk on the phone. If I can see you, why do I need to talk to you on the phone? Text messages are a valid form of communication over short distances. My ex and I formed the basis of our relationship on BBM. It was sufficient.
I think Streetz hit it on the head. It's not laziness so much as a general shift.
With so many ways to communicate and people having their preferences, there will always be a huge grey area to navigate. I don't think it's a woman or man lazy thing though. It doesn't matter to how a person chooses to communicate because in the end if we have no face time (initiated by myself or the dude) its never gonna go far. I can't ignore the chemistry factor which in my opinion can only be determined in person after the comfort level has been established. People do what's important and if you are to that person it should be evident by their actions period.
Great post and comments folks!
My .02 cents:
Every man who is single should bow down and give thanks to whatever he believes in–for text messaging. For me, it has done 2 things:
1) Made it easier to arrange a face to face without the annoying back and forth of phone tag. Some women must have x amount of phone-time before that next meeting. I don't care about that…up-close and personal always lets you get a better feel of the person.
2) It screens out the game-players who care too much about the pursuit. It's 2011-are we still following The Rules? Really?
3) People are busy and have a dozen different things competing for their attention at any one moment. They won't answer every phone call due to actually talking with other people, driving, not having their phone near at that moment, etc. It's just another tool to stay connected while you live life.
I feel the womenfolk about their concerns. Shame on a ni€€a who only texts. That's abusing technology. But if women are complaining and still swapping sweat with these dudes, who do we blame?
Co-sign what Rick said…..
BACK IN THE DAY . . .the Native Americans would hunt the buffalo. They would go out for days . .. track them. . . maybe follow the heard. It was hard and in some ways dangerous work. . . .
Now. . .we put a big fence around the Cows and feed them everyday until we ready for some ribs.
The Native American way may seem like alot more work . . . but getting up 5:30 every morning to feed the cows, make sure they in good health etc is not easy either. It is JUST DIFFERENT. [DIFFERENT does not mean good or bad. .. just different]
One way may or may not feed the tribe. Depending on whether a Buffalo was caught or not.
The other way has significantly less chance of injury and is efficient enough to provide beef for a whole country with significantly less resources dedicated to it.
I say all that to say this. .. it is about EFFICIENCY. I would venture to say . . .women you will learn alot more about a guy though text and email than a phone convo. Sometimes folx are less guarded in text. They think them out more. I think in alot of ways it is the preparation.
Do you see a dance routine on TV and think they just showed up? I don't think 1000 Texts get you sex . . .I think what you put in the text is more important.
We seem to spend alot of time trying to see WHAT IS WRONG . . .rather than WHAT IS RIGHT. For years I been hearing men do not communicate enough . . now we are going to nitpick and say . .well he communicating in the wrong way??? *chuckle*
Reminds me of the old joke.
Where the lady goes to the 1st floor. . . . .Says there is a man here. . . .You can stay here or goto the next floor . .she goes to the next floor.
2nd floor says man with a job
3rd floor says man with a job and a house
4th floor says rich man with a job and a house
5th floor says rich man with a job and a house and is a great lover . . . .
and so on and so forth . . . .She keeps going
until she reaches a roof . .. and the note says. . .SEE WOMEN ARE NEVER SATISFIED
Anyone ready to leave The Grocery Store pick up their spear and arrows and go hunt???
[I guess we can complain that Farming and Ranching has lead to America's Obesity Problem too while we are here]
It's been a while since I've dated, been in a relationship for a long time, so my opinion may be biased but I think just relying on texting as communication or for courting is lazy. If you've already built a comfortable relationship with a person where you don't need to sit on the phone with them and deal with the silent moments that creep into conversations during a phone call, then that's cool, because for me that's why I text lol.
But, if you are just meeting them and getting to know them, even if you aren't looking for something long term I think a call or two is in order.
This makes me think about breaking up with the availability of technology. Is it inappropriate to break up with someone over text if you court them mostly through texting? Which reminds me of drew barrymore's line in he's just not into you. "I had this guy leave me a voice mail at work, so I called him at home, and then he emailed me to my BlackBerry, and so I texted to his cell, and now you just have to go around checking all these different portals just to get rejected by seven different technologies."
Hi Guys! 🙂
Hello all,
I think that this is my first time commenting althought I have been reading the blog for sometime. Anywho, this is a great post topic. In my opinion texting has become a double edged sword. On the one hand it is a very useful and convenient tool for quick communication. I can't tell you how many phone calls I have had where I was left thinking "damn, they couldn't have just texted me that?" However, when it comes to courting/dating texting can be more harmful than helpful. In addition to the end result being an extremely impersonal and surface level conversation, if your grammatical skills are sub-par, talk about an instant turn off. Now I am no grammar Nazi, nor expert by any means, but if you are still spelling words like 'nothing' as 'nuffin' and you are over 18, its a problem. Point blank, period. Call me bourgeois(sp?) Or whatever but I just can't accept that on top of your minimalist effort. In this day and age of the mass text, it has become increasingly easier for people (no not just men can be shady) to "show" interest in multiple people simultaneously. I had a guy who was very text friendly, but after explaining to him that I prefer phone calls he definitely started picking up the phone more. Which goes to show that when a man is interested he will do what's necessary to indicate genuine interest.
As a woman, I think it's rude not to return a call after he called you twice. If a man calls me 3-4, even 5 times, after I ignored his first 2 calls, then I place him in the bugaboo category. There are ways to see if a man will court you other than playing hard to get over returning a phone call. I don't play phone games nor am I flaky. However, I don't give it up until at least a month and a half to two months, b/c since men have become increasingly lazier it's easier to weed out the "hit it, quit it" types from the ones who are actually interested in me as a person.
I don't thinks it is laziness, I think it is more of an issue with the games many women play, especially if a guy seems too interested (why would any man do something that he knows turns women off). If calling was what women wanted before sex, men would call.
How many times have you heard that women "don't like nice guys" or that women "like a challenge" or that "neediness is a turn off". Funny thing is, I am far more patient with women I am not attracted to who I just want to be friends with, but I have experienced too many games from other women to really believe that they did not get my call or something happened. If she did not return my call and message, as my equal in today's society, I respect her choice to say "no" like I would a man. Pure and simple. Chasing would only make it worse.
I feel the need to personally double check anything nice I do towards a woman, as to not end up seeming "too nice" and I wish I did not. At the core of a guy's being is the need for respect, and if he gets the feeling a woman is playing games (like MANY of today's women do), he is on to the next one. Don't blame the men, blame the other women who actively take a crap on courting and romance through punishing those behaviors, then complaining they don't get them.
I would personally love to feel that my persistence, creativity, sincerity and personality have won over the woman of my dreams out of the hands of many other suitors, but those days are long gone and it is not much to do with the men. I personally hate texting, I would much rather hear your voice and hear how your day was, but that is all that some women respond to (unfortunately).
This right here is an interesting article http://bit.ly/iaqaSq. "Are men too lazy to court"
Yes we are lazy, mainly because we don't have to put forth any real effort. I had a good female friend of mine asking me if she should sleep with this guy she has been dating for a few weeks. Which I thought was cool if she felt like it, but then she told me that they haven't even talked on the phone yet. I was like WTF, you thinking about sleeping with this dude and you haven't even spoken on the phone with. I guess the power of text messages is in full effect nowadays. LOL
I AGREE WITH THIS POST!!! For months I've been saying this!!!!!
((Great Post!!))
I am not saying technology is not an effective way to communicate HOWEVER it CANNOT be the only way in which two people communicate. Nothing can ever replace Face 2 Face conversation or talking on the phone. not even Skype, Oovoo or FaceTime. Yes I agree men and women interpret communication differently. Yet, I can speak from my past experience that men and women will make the effort to talk to each other on the phone or in person if said person is worth it.
I think these various forms of communications are okay. However, they WILL hinder a relationship again if its the ONLY form of communication. If technology is used in addition, to face 2 face and phone calls than it's okay (My opinion)
Technology is a cheat sheet when it comes to courting/dating. I couldn't see myself serious involved with a guy I only spoke 2 via Text or Twitter/FB or whatever else form of technology is used now a days. I def agree BOTH parties are responsible in establishing the value of sex. Said value cannot be upheld simply thru text. I am a FIRM believer that the phone works both ways. Personally I like for a man be a "man" and lead. However ultimately, I feel women hold the cards; the final decision rest upon us if we will have sex with a guy or not… If you're a female and you feel OK sleeping with a guy you've never saw in person or NEVER heard his voice, more power to you… But that Def will NOT be my story, EVER!
RT @SBMDotOrg Are Modern Men Too Lazy to Court http://t.co/g645fhn
Women set the tone of what they will or will not accept so we all must be becoming lazier. Most all of us communicate with text messages more than ever instead of calling and its definitely less personal than a phone call, but texting someone is effective and if you want to hhok-up than will technology just makes quickies even quicker for both parties.
This txting thing is getting out of control, it just makes my blood boil. I give a guy my number; he doen't call, he txt "hey sweethear" fool you dont know me. Hey my arse.I once had a whole first date via txt mesage granted the guy was next to me the whole time. We were driving in the car together this ninja was txting me, we were walking through the mall this fool was txting me. Can we say L.A.M.E!!!!! ugh. And again, I was having a fight with my boyfriend (mind you we live together) he's downstairs txt arguing and trying to make up.
@cam would you rather a guy text to see if your free because that's is a safe move but safe/careful men usually get noticed. Speaking from experience fortune favors the bold.
“Courtship” (just like marriage) is an outdated ritual which caters to women’ sense of fantasy. It simply does not take all that time, money, and effort to find out if two people desire one another or are compatible. We all know “the one” when we meet him/her. Anything else is just catering to social expectations and social programming.
Called once or twice and sent a message ore two… seems that you did your part. But what I gathered from this is not that you (men) have become lazy, but more so you're tired of chasing after the chick that's hard to get. Your bad for going after her so diligently in the first place.
i dont believe the phone has anything to do with courting…BAM
Have we forgotten how much power we as women hold? We are accountable for how men treat us, as they will only do what you allow. If you reduce your worth to sex after a series of text, then that's on you. Women who command respect and deserve it will get it. Point Blank Period.
I think it's sweet that you've chosen to analyze your approach in dealing with women, but honestly, it's as much their fault as it is yours. #Just Sayin..
The younger generation is doomed when it comes to this subject. As a college student I can safely say no one ever calls. They simply just send 3 word text or hit you up on facebook 🙁
Preach
I'm late coming into this conversation, but I gotta be honest…I like being courted and so do all of my single girlfriends. I personally loathe what text messaging has done to communication, but I can't just blame men. I have some girlfriends who have likewise lost the good sense to pick up the phone and actually talk from time to time. The point is text messaging cannot replace good old fashioned courting any more than it can replace the sound of "giiiiiiiiiiiirl, let me tell you what happened" on the other end of my phone. Furthermore, who has time and energy to text out a full conversation. If you wanna talk, CALL ME!
technology didnt make men lazy. it simply made it a little more obvious that they dont care. they dont care because of supply and demand. because of the male/female ratio, women are in plentiful supply – therefore the demand is down. women nowadays give up the drawers to any man who wants them. since the drawers can be given multiple times by the same woman, drawers are in exponentially higher supply than women; therefore, the “price” of drawers has gone way down. who pays for sand at the beach?
May I simply say what a comfort to discover someone who genuinely understands what they are talking about over the internet.
You certainly know how to bring a problem to light and make it important.
A lot more people have to read this and understand this side of your story.
I can’t believe you are not more popular because you surely have the gift.
Hey just wanted to give you a brief heads up and let you know a few of the images
aren’t loading properly. I’m not sure why but I think its a linking issue.
I’ve tried it in two different browsers and both show the same outcome.
Hello, this weekend is good in support of me, for the reason that this
occasion i am reading this great educational article here at my home.
Is it this generation just finds the new technology and means of communication easy?
Different times, different tools?
Back in the 50's wasn't the whole date ritual involving meeting dad, bringing a corsage, having the talk, and all had to be planned well in advance.
Every decade or generation we see big changes of all kinds.
But the young guys these days have it easy with the ping a booty calls. They don't even have to talk.
And in some cases, that can be a good thing.
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