Home Featured Monogamy, Cheating, and Side Pieces

Monogamy, Cheating, and Side Pieces

168
Yeah right.

Monogamy isn’t natural for men. It’s in our instinct to want to conquer early — not to be confused with premature ejaculation which inevitably happens to many of us and leads to a penile pep talk — and often. It’s no surprise that so many men wish death upon me end up sliding off on their girlfriends, wives, or pseudo significant others. It’s like trying to get a vampire not to drink blood. That’d be silliness in its purest form.

Some of you probably vehemently disagree. Others are probably pounding their desks and cosigning. I have an idea of what the gender breakdown looks like for each side. More than likely it’s as lopsided as a boob job done by Stevie Wonder.

I recently had the chance to live tweet another panel discussion put on by Together Apart. This one was officially titled Multiple Choice: Monogamy, Cheating, and Dealing with the Side Piece. And as you can tell, it was about monogamy, cheating, and dealing with the side piece. Of the topics that have been beat over the head, this one is an immortal horse still capable of winning the Kentucky Derby. It was the first time that I got to attend a live event on the subject and capture the thoughts of those in the room as well as those that follow me and Together Apart on Twitter. The honesty was beyond brutal, but everybody in attendance walked away with some thoughts that they took to the club, their cheating ass boo that they’ve been denying is a cheating ass boo, or their church group the next day.

In the interest of attention spans and straying from my verbosity, I’ve composed a list of random thoughts and quotes that came from the panel or the recesses of my mind that could have easily been 2500 words down to something much less. The context for each of these isn’t as important as the fact they made me think and hopefully they do the same for you.

Black people are judgmental as sh*t.

Now that I think about it, sh*t isn’t actually judgmental but that’s besides the point. As I was tweeting some of the quotes from admitted cheaters, side pieces, and a couple on the panel that’s in an open marriage, I noticed a familiar trend.

See Also:  The Problem with Relationship Breaks and Break Babies

We love to condemn, jeer, boo, and hiss like no other. The folks in the room knew to come to this event with an open mind and that the purpose is to be challenged in their thinking (I did see people getting shifty though). It’s not as easy to get that across on Twitter.

What do relationships and occupations/jobs have in common nowadays? Lack of loyalty.

Since humans are self-preserving, we’re inherently selfish. Think about when you’re looking for a gig. You do your research, you know what type of place you wanna work (your list), you lie and embellish during the interview, then you get the gig. Once you get the gig and it’s served its purpose or isn’t as satisfying as when you started, you begin perusing job boards or asking around about other opportunities. Insert a stat about the divorce rate and what often happens in relationships after the peachy phase ends and you have the parallel. Loyalty is about as obsolete as chivalry.

“A man doesn’t wanna chase. A man wants to please a woman.” – Kenya Stevens of JujuMama LLC.

Kenya is in an open marriage with her husband, Carl. She’s very strongly opinionated and I had quotes for days from her. It turns out I interviewed these 2 last June when I was helping out with the Modern Day Matchmaker Live event in NYC. Anyways, this quote got a very positive reaction from the audience and I cosigned. It probably explains why I’ve always been more concerned with the quality of my encounters and less with the number of bodies accumulated in a word document. 100% testosterone and tiger’s blood.

“Cheating is 1 of the most ridic words in our vocabulary when it comes to a relationship because we aren’t playing a game” – Kenya

I told you. Quotes for days. But seriously, I never thought of it this way. Personally, I abhor games in dating and relationships. They are the bane of my existence and make me Cottonelle soft where I shouldn’t be.

“Scientific definition of monogamy is that a person only has sex with one person during their life even if that person passes.” -Kenya

See Also:  Her Words: Confessions of a Crazy Chick

I haven’t looked this up and won’t look it up. But if this is true, I don’t like science.

Most of us aren’t comfortable with unfiltered honesty and communication in our relationships because of the potential implications…and selfishness.

Carl was telling the audience a story about how he walked into his house one day and said told Kenya that he felt like he was falling in love with a colleague of his. Though she didn’t like it, she appreciated his honesty and they worked through it. Truth be told, I wouldn’t walk in and say that sh*t. Nope. No way. But I do strive to achieve that level of honesty so that I’m not omitting something that plagues my mind daily.

“After being married 16 years, the love changes and it’s different. You experience a hormonal cocktail in 1st 2 years…” -Kenya & Carl

This isn’t much different than any relationship. A lot of people don’t know what to do when the cocktail pleasantness wears off and the hangover of real life sets in. Relationships are much more work than a couple Advil and a bottle of Pedialyte.

“Men are bred to give women the answers they want to hear.” -Erich Williams

The quote speaks for itself, but let me tell you a bit about this guy.

Erich was the most brutal with his honesty. His candidness was like an enlightening kick to the nuts for everybody. He’s a bit older than the average person perusing SBM. But if this man blogged, he’d have 1 million subscribers. Erich mentioned during the discussion that he used his wedding ring to attract women at times. It was like setting a trap to catch prey and it had a very high success rate. Erich also spoke of how he set out to go after women in relationships to get them to break their own moral code. Not loving himself made him want to make others not love themselves. That sh*t is deep. Misery loves company.

“If you have a partner whose ego strength is weakened, they’re going to seek narcissism and accomplishment elsewhere.” – @ShawnaMarieTV

Shawna was the resident in-house therapist offering up thoughts after each discussion topic. She always says something empowering or enlightening that makes me wanna change the world or start an inspirational blog.

See Also:  SBM Sports: What Derek Jeter Taught Me About Sports Guilt

“Being the side piece to chicks gave me all sorts of trust issues when I got in relationships” -Chris “Kazi” Rolle

Kazi is the founder of Together Apart. I understood exactly what he was saying with this one. As a man that once laid next to a chick that called her boyfriend to tell him she was out with her girls as she simultaneously worked to make Staff Sergeant Pumpington stand at attention, I questioned women for a while after the after-glow wore off. To this day, I’m still cautious. When you do dirt or are involved with dirt, it’s difficult to get your mind out of the mud.

“Once a cheater always a cheater isn’t necessarily true. They become repeaters if they don’t suffer consequences.” –Ruth Houston

“The misconception about infidelity is that you can do it and come out unscathed.” -Ruth

Ruth is an infidelity expert and the author of Is He Cheating on You – 829 Telltale Signs. These quotes are for the enablers and those that think what they do in the dark will never come into the light.

“The purpose of a relationship is to grow your character.” -Kenya

This one turned out to be kinda controversial on Twitter. I think that part of the purpose of a relationship is to grow character, but I can’t cosign that it is thee purpose.

“You don’t have to cheat to get love. You can get a dog.” -Carl

That’s just funny and a great way to wrap up this post. What do you think of the quotes and thoughts shared? Do you agree or disagree? Do you think monogamy is natural for men…and women? Could you see yourself telling your significant other than you’re falling in love with somebody else? Other thoughts?

Listening to women call their men while I lay next to them since that one time I mentioned,

Remember to vote for us in the Black Weblog Awards! Suggested categories to vote for us in are Best Design, Best Group Blog, Best Sex and Relationship Blog, Best Lifestyle Blog, Best Blog Post Series (Please use THIS URL), and Blog of the Year.

Comment(168)

  1. All I know is….I have zero tolerance for anything other than monogamy. I believe in it, so I expect any woman I deal with to abide by the same thought pattern.

    That being said, I strongly disagree with what Ruth was saying.

    1. Real Leo… although… I like the teeth in your opinion… how do I say this… no mean to offend…

      The biggest promoters of monogamy tend to be unattractive, or low-value…

      Again, I meant no shots by that… I am just talking from experience…

      All I am asking is, and this is a hypothetical… Live the life of a Chris Brown or some guy who every woman wants to be with… And if you STILL hold that monogamy opinion… Then, I can give it more credence…

      Guys like TMIMTW hold more water with those statements because I believe that they have that kind of thing going on in their lives…

      It is just easier to make statements like that when you are not getting what you want out of life…

  2. "Monogamy isn’t natural for men. "
    Honestly I think that's a big ol excuse. Monogamy isn't natural for anyone. Its a decision.

    But hey.. that could just be the estrogen speaking…

  3. "Monogamy isn’t natural for men." As soon as I read that opening line I knew this was going to be an interesting day on SBM. I agree with this quote.

    *dodges stones thrown from people living in glass houses*

    With that said (typed), it's still an excuse not to remain faithful if that is the understanding of your relationship (some folks know I've been in an open relationship – and if not, now you know). I'll bring up a parallel point from an article I read recently. It basically said that men drive women crazy and all women are capable of going crazy over certain men. Given this (author's opinion of) reality, it is up to men to adjust accordingly by being honest and upfront and recognizing that women are predispositioned to craziness. I don't agree but a commenter brought up a counter-point that I think relates to your post. Paraphrasing they said: "Even if true, that is not an excuse for women to go crazy without consequence."

    In other words, we're all capable of murder too. This does not dismiss the need to take responsibility for your actions. You can cheat, go crazy, or murder someone. That's all fine and dandy but a real man/woman, even if cognizant of this possibility, takes responsibility for their own actions. Preferably before committing the undesired action, not after. People love to find reasons to blame anyone and everything before themselves.

    Anyway, since I'm here already…

    I agree with these quotes:

    "Black people are judgmental as sh*t." – other races may be too but in my opinion, we are BY FAR the most vocal.

    "Most of us aren’t comfortable with unfiltered honesty and communication in our relationships because of the potential implications…and selfishness."

    Men are bred to give women the answers they want to hear.” – Erich Williams – I don't know if we're "bred" that way but we become daaaamn good at it with experience.

    Once a cheater always a cheater isn’t necessarily true."

    I'll shut up for now until more have a chance to comment. Good, thought provoking post…..annnnd I'm pretty sure there's going to be an e-fight before the end of the day.

  4. Ok I can't sleep because the Lakers lost UGH! In any case I agree with Ness – Monogamy is a choice. People have to choose faithfulness everyday.
    Why get married if you want to be in an open relationship – and you get to fall in love with co-workers ????? I call bull-shibby!

    “The misconception about infidelity is that you can do it and come out unscathed.” -Ruth
    Thus the reason I call bull-ish on the open marriage -its open infidelity! Also, even if you don't get caught there is damage to yourself and the relationship – there is always that thing…

    1. The open relationship isn't open infidelity. It is an agreement that there will be outside partners. Might as well be inclusive and let your partner know. It works for some people, and for other's it doesnt. So there really isn't a way to get "caught" in that sense.

      1. But if you and your partner decide to have an open relationship, isn't it an indication that maybe the relationship has problems? Because I find it hard to imagine a happy partner wake up in the morning and be like "hey baby I wanna f*ck other people, hope that's cool with you" …No offense or anything.

        1. "But if you and your partner decide to have an open relationship, isn’t it an indication that maybe the relationship has problems?"

          I dont' think so. An open marriage isn't for me… but if it works for other folks, who am I to tell them that they have problems? The thing is… people who are able to participate in an open relationship usually are super honest with eachother. I think that there could be really great sense of security the developes from knowing that your partner is going to be that honest with you.

          In the grand scheme of things… I really think that when someone cheats, their partner is less angry about the actual physical act, and more angry about the deception behind it. An open marriage eliminates the deception part of stepping out on your significant other…

      2. <blockquote cite="comment-300824">

        Lyrically Inclined:
        But if you and your partner decide to have an open relationship, isn’t it an indication that maybe the relationship has problems?

        Short answer: no.

        Long answer: A lot of people are in 'open relationships' right now, they just haven't defined it as such because the term has negative connotations, so I don't blame them. However, if you are having s*x with someone without official titles, guess what, that's an open relationship. People come up with all kinds of cute terms to avoid that reality, like FWBs, etc. Also, if you have ever cheated or been cheated on, especially more than once, wellllllll….

        Anyway, to say that anyone that doesn't abide by your particular belief system has "problems" is kind of narrow minded. If two consenting adults agree to a decision, even if I don't agree with it, more power to them. In my opinion, problems fester in relationships where partners don't communicate for risk of offending their significant other or in selfishness and self preservation of their own needs/wants, which seemed to be the general theme of this blog.

        1. "Anyway, to say that anyone that doesn’t abide by your particular belief system has “problems” is kind of narrow minded."

          I'm not narrow-minded about this issue. I may not have a clear understanding as to why some couples indulge in open relationships but I'm trying to be out-of-the-box as possible. When I hear/see the word "open relationship" I just see sex as the only issue, when relationships are supposed to be about different forms of connecting with each other. It's all good though; everyone's got different belief systems so I can't hate on that.

        2. <blockquote cite="comment-300912">

          Lyrically Inclined: I’m not narrow-minded about this issue. I may not have a clear understanding as to why some couples indulge in open relationships but I’m trying to be out-of-the-box as possible. When I hear/see the word “open relationship” I just see sex as the only issue, when relationships are supposed to be about different forms of connecting with each other. It’s all good though; everyone’s got different belief systems so I can’t hate on that.

          Fair enough. Seemed like you were outright condemning the practice at first, sorry if I misunderstood. I think you're looking at this from the male perspective. S*x is not the only issue in an open or closed relationship, although it is the one people primarily focus on. Honestly, there are many 'open relationships' where s*x is not had. Like anything, there are different types, which is why open and honest communication are essential.

          However, I think the larger issue here is the focus on s*x (not just by you). Women (mostly) connect mentally before physically. Therefore, a man could be "mind f*cking" your woman long before he does so physically. To narrow your relationship concerns to just a conversation of physical cheating vs. not doesn't wholly address many of the issues you will face. Further, a relationship should involve more than s*x or it's not much of a relationship at all. Again, you're not the only one who focuses on this but it's funny when people talk about relationships, monogamy, etc they talk about s*x (or the bible) as if that's all it takes to have a healthy and successful relationship when, judging by the number of failed relationships around us, it obviously is not that simple a formula.

          In other news, go to http://www.gravatar.com and register the email you use here to get an avatar. I believe it's a pretty simple process.

        3. Yea….definitely never thought about the fact that having sex with someone without titles could be considered an open relationship. Thanks for opening my mind a little bit.

      3. <blockquote cite="comment-300791">

        DeKeLa:
        The open relationship isn’t open infidelity. It is an agreement that there will be outside partners. Might as well be inclusive and let your partner know. It works for some people, and for other’s it doesnt. So there really isn’t a way to get “caught” in that sense.

        The not getting "caught" part is a non issue IMO. The "I fell in love with my co-worker" Is the issues – the ability to allow your husband/wife the option to fall in love with someone else is bs. How does that work? People act like love is the mysteriously wonderful thing you just catch – its also a choice you choose to love someone!

        1. People act like love is the mysteriously wonderful thing you just catch – its also a choice you choose to love someone!

          Whoa!… Stop the presses!…

          I love how you just made life so confusing… Let me clear it up…

          Falling In Love IMO is NOT a choice…

          And loving someone is SOMEWHAT of a choice…

          The “I fell in love with my co-worker” Is the issues – the ability to allow your husband/wife the option to fall in love with someone else is bs. How does that work?

          That is their bedroom… And if that man can pull that off… GOD bless him, he needs to teach a class or something

    2. I find it interesting borderline hilarious that some of the men in the post agree with the open relationship concept and encouraging the forum to have an open mind about it and not to judge those who do it……….Sounds good online until your girl comes to you with the idea……..please tell me your first thought will not well who do you want to have chex with???!!

      1. Touche NF… Touche

        My policy will be this with the women I love…

        I can sleep with whoever I damn well please… while I will control who she will sleep with…

        #TeamDoubleStandards

  5. I'm slightly torn on this topic. There's a big part of me wants to think that monogamy (natural or not) is a good thing. However, there's another part that thinks there's a reason monogamy and monotony sound so similar. I'm just playing not really People change. Sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. And sometimes instead of growing together, they grow apart.

    Overall, I believe in monogamy. Now I know monogamous relationships take a lot of work. A LOT of work. Love isn't just the "cocktail of pleasantness" in the beginning, it's the effort you put in to keep it going once the going get tough. I think there were some poets who said it best: "Sunny days, everybody loves them, but tell me, baby Can You Stand the Rain." (Yep, I just quoted New Edition, and what?) What I'd like to believe is there are many people that you're going to meet (or just see) and be attracted to. You don't really have any choice over that. But you can choose on whether or not to act on it. It's never been a sin to be tempted.

    1. "What I’d like to believe is there are many people that you’re going to meet (or just see) and be attracted to. You don’t really have any choice over that. But you can choose on whether or not to act on it. It’s never been a sin to be tempted."

      I wish someone could hip my boyfriend to this.

    2. <blockquote cite="comment-300293">

      TWIsM81: Now I know monogamous relationships take a lot of work. A LOT of work..

      You had me at "Work"!!!! *UGH* Yes!!! Yes it does.

      I came to grips with the simple fact that right now I am too LAZY when it comes to relationships — I don't have the desire to put in the necessary WORK to nourish a relationship. I have RADD.

      1. I slightly disagree with that…

        Women will put in the work if the right man shows up at the right time…

        I feel sorry for that woman that relies on that type of timing to happen

  6. These are the only quotes I fully agree with:

    “After being married 16 years, the love changes and it’s different. You experience a hormonal cocktail in 1st 2 years…”

    “You don’t have to cheat to get love. You can get a dog.”

    The other quotes…I don’t agree with or haven’t personally experienced. I agree with the first quote because things change with time. I’m not married, but I can see how “I do” can sometimes feel like “I don’t”. People don’t change, but our environment and surroundings change. I also like this quote because it can be applied to almost all aspects of life. I agree with the second quote because I love dogs and they do bring a big smile to my face.
    I don’t want to be a cheater or side piece, so I deal with men who respect this decision.
    Erich…what a flippin’ scumbag…and yes I’m judging because the facts have been presented to me in the post. People who are in ruins ruin the lives of those who don’t deserve it. People who don’t love themselves need to take up a hobby and use that negative energy towards something constructive and positive. The behavior of jaded individuals sickens me and I hope Erich gains self-worth if he hasn’t already done so. The discussion of this topic will forever linger, but I know what works for me and I plan on sticking to it.

    1. Erich's actions were admittedly unsavory, but his honesty provided a perspective unseen at these types of forums. He had a lot of positive quotes too, but I just didn't have the space to include them here.

      Just chiming in on behalf of the man since he don't be on blogs (I think). Appreciate you commenting though.

  7. this is a good post.

    even in the Bible, men tended to have wives and concubines and then other chicks that they just knocked up, so while i would like to disagree with monogamy not being natural, it probably isn't. HOWEVER, i am perfectly fine with going against nature in this instance. as a matter of fact, nature will get you hurt, in this instance. lol. the whole human experience has been one that has evolved throughout history, through repeated behavior of going against nature and becoming more … well, human. slavery, cannibalism and human sacrifice to random Sun gods were all considered natural at one point, too. i don't see anyone campaigning for these to return. lol.

    jokes aside though, i don't agree with cheating or open relationships, which is just cheating dressed in shiny clothes. the discussion that was going on on twitter during that panel almost made me late to an obligation because it was so interesting to see the different perspectives, but overall i can't say i would practice any of them in my own life. i have been called open-minded to a fault, so i tend to be okay with others living their lives how they want, but it just seems bad business to knowingly pursue women/men in a relationship simply because you're unhappy with your life and want to destroy a part of others as well. what you put out is what you receive.

    i think that today, there is an overall lack of loyalty to pretty much anything, relationships included. all you really have to do is open your laptop/ipad/smartphone and there is some avatar and screenname waiting and willing to show, tell, and remind you that you are the greatest thing God ever created, even if your significant other doesn't think so at that moment, even if they are justified in their opinion of you at that moment. a surplus of options and slight lack of loyalty to your partner and your word can allow anyone to cheat with a few series of DMs or text messages. it's simply too easy. because it's so extremely easy to do now, i think it says so much more about how much of a "man" one is to promise loyalty/faithfulness to someone and actually be so, than to "bag" a bunch of women without being caught. and men always get caught anyhow. lol

    1. <blockquote cite="comment-300625">

      Muze: I don’t agree with cheating or open relationships, which is just cheating dressed in shiny clothes.

      I can't cosign this from the open relationship perspective. An open relationship is anagreement that you can see other people, it's just another way to say "non exclusive dating", which people do on the regular. Its almost an agreement that you two will spend time together and continue to do so, but you will have other options. The moment you decide to shut down options, that's when it's "cheating" because you're breaking the rules of your arrangement. In fact its probably better to say you're breaching a contract rather than cheating.

    2. Oh yeah. Men always get caught because they don't lie as well as women.We may think we can beat the system, but we usually do some dumb sh*t like forget to take a condom wrapper out the jeans before doing laundry.

      That happened to a friend. Not me.

  8. About monogamy not natural for men…it may not be natural for women either. Well I dont think it is. i believe some people have an easier time being faithful than others wether it is men or women. But if men are made to spread their seed then that means that women are meant to take the seed of different men. Think about it. If one man has sex with a woman and he moves on, there is going to be another man that is going to want that woman. So once the first man leaves then another man comes. There have been studies that say a good amount of children are born to affairs of women. So men may think they are the father of their wife's child when another man actually is.

    Anyway I think open relationships and monogamy are fine. It just really depends on the people involved. And I also dont understand why open relationships are looked down on when people have many sexual partners before they meet their spouse (so you are already meeting someone that has been around and you are already with someone that has established intimate bonds with other people) or people cheat and then lie about, and then take each other back. If you can do that then I honestly dont see the problem with an open relationship. Just my opinion.

    1. "But if men are made to spread their seed then that means that women are meant to take the seed of different men."

      Phrase of the week for me…

      Very few people can handle open relationships

  9. "What do relationships and occupations/jobs have in common nowadays? Lack of loyalty."

    I completely agree. These days people are so disloyal that it makes my blood boil. Loyalty is so important to me whether its to a friend, a S.O or a job. If you make a commitment to someone or something then dont be wishy washy. Now if you have an understanding don't expect something else.

    There is just such a lack of self control these days and i am guilty myself but i just wish people would recognize this problem and work on it. Yes! i'm working on myself.

  10. “Scientific definition of monogamy is that a person only has sex with one person during their life even if that person passes.” -Kenya

    LOL how does this female come up with such quotes? Sounds like she's trying to justify her stance on open relationships (I'm not trying to perpetuate the stereotype of the first quote but it's whatever).

    Personally, I just think sex is madly overrated, especially with these free love/ open relationship advocates. Why would you still be in a relationship/marriage if you crave for f**k buddies? I would like to see some University do a data analysis for these type of relationship or something. . .

    Although it is hard nowadays to be monogamous, I still choose it over any kind of arrangement that will give me the clear chance to smash any chick apart from my GF because there's nothing more devastating than the thought of your girl getting D*cked down by some other guy she has a crush on. I'm a keeper man. I keeps mines.

    1. "Personally, I just think sex is madly overrated, especially with these free love/ open relationship advocates. Why would you still be in a relationship/marriage if you crave for f**k buddies?"

      I feel you… and it's something that wouldn't work for me, either. However, I'd much rather deal with a guy that told me up front that he wanted an open relationship and therefore allows me to make an informed decision on whether or not I still wanted to deal with him, (which for me would be to say "I'll pass) than to have someone run around on me my behind my back and make that decision for me.

  11. “Scientific definition of monogamy is that a person only has sex with one person during their life even if that person passes.” -Kenya

    "I haven’t looked this up and won’t look it up. But if this is true, I don’t like science." AGREED. Not that I don't agree with monogamy, but I'm skeptical about this 'scientific definition'….

    1. What I get from her statement is that the scientific definition of monagamy is mating for life. For the most part people did use to do that when marriage really was "til death do us part".

  12. In all honesty, what is the big deal about Monogamy?

    It has very little to do with religion and moreso with people's pride. Everyone wants to believe that the other 6+ Billion people in the world will have no effect on their mate because they are so special and more than enough to satisfy another person. Cute, but doesn't make sense logically and goes against our natural desires.

    It goes against people's (Men AND Women) natural responses to (bang everything within 15 mi) seek flesh and even our history shows men having multiple wives, concubines, and encounters is normal.

    As long as someone loves and cares about you and is willing to invest the time and energy into your behind. Why are we more concerned about everything else?

    Suprisingly, this is really a big American culture phenomena whereas in Eastern Europe and Asia, it is more accepted and understood (probably have lower divorce rates too).

    1. "It has very little to do with religion and moreso with people’s pride. Everyone wants to believe that the other 6+ Billion people in the world will have no effect on their mate because they are so special and more than enough to satisfy another person."

      I don't agree with this statement. Monogamy is not about your mate never being attracted to the other 6 billion people in the world. Its not an attraction thing, and its not an ego thing either. I don't think most people are thinking that they are so special and can consistantly satisfy their mate.

      The issue is about loyalty. Like some of the other commenter's said previously, it just seems like nobody is loyal anymore.

      1. Then how would you personally define loyalty? And I ask was their really a paradigm shift of loyalty as compared to the past or is it that with the media and social networking tools really exposing what was there all along?

      1. I'm saying that I wouldn't shun the idea, It all depends on my wants and needs at the time. As stated before, FwB, boo's and other names for it, are all open relationships of sort.

        It isn't for everybody and I don't expect most people to (willingly) enter into this type of relationship. I do believe it would probably help cut down on some issues since it by nature it is a more communicative type of relationship.

    2. Dekala, you're going to have to fall back.

      1) You are atheist or agnostic. Either way, you love bringing up religion and talking it down to prove a point.
      2) Your natural desires argument is inherently flawed. What do you say about the decision to pursue higher education? To work hard for something? To have morals and values? So you pick and choose your natural desires?
      3) You can't generalize Eastern Europe and Asia with absolutely no data to support those facts. In fact, you couldn't be further from the truth. The divorce rates across the world are pretty much the same. That's something you learn in Anthro 101. Also, never compare yourself or culture to cultures that marginalize women through arranged marriages and the threat of prosecution/death if they are found guilty of adultery. Furthermore, in some cultures divorcing is not allowed, because of RELIGION. Or being divorced puts you at a disadvantage and outcasted from your network or community … because of RELIGION. Don't compare yourself to that. It's not always the model of progressive.

      1. Dr J,

        1) I am neither of those things, and being haste in your assumptions, would fail to realize I am actually a God-Fearing Man. Because I choose to raise questions and view things in a different light, doesn't taint my beliefs in a Higher Being. But Thanks

        2)What does Higher Education, morals/values have to do with what I said? I could argue the point that man's natural desire to compete is a reason we pursue higher education and work hard to best the next man and become more attractive to the fairer sex. But I don't know what you are talking about. Please clarify.

        3) I was wrong about the divorce rates, and you were correct, Great, hence why I state it as a conjecture, not a fact and I learned something. That doesn't change my mainpoint of MONOGAMY in culture. Studies have shown that in different societies around the world, only 18% (out of ~600) practice Monogamy. see Murdock GP (1981) Atlas of world cultures. University of Pittsburgh Press, Pittsburgh. Besides what we are talking about is Social Monogamy since Sexual Monogamy actually means to have one sexual mate for life.

        3a) Divorce isn't ALLOWED in most religions, hell it's not even permitted for the Roman Catholic Church (besides certain conditions. I am also aware of religous persecution and that wasn't the basis of my argument.

        Dude, this is not the first time you disagreed with what I said, and instead of debating like Men, you came out and attack me. If you want to disagree, that's perfectly fine and we can engage in conversation, but to try and belittle my intelligence and my Faith is going a bit too far.

        1. I didn't attack you. I disagreed with you and offered points as to why your argument was weak. I could not tell that you are a God fearing man from your comments on this post and previous posts. That's not a shot at you, but that's a point for you to take home with you.

          As to your points, because i'm not going to engage in debate with you today: there's this concept called The Talented Tenth, I don't know if being a part of the 18% who practice it can be outright declared a bad thing. As for #2, that was pretty much stated clearly. We all do things that go against our natural desires.

          Wait a minute, natural desire doesn't even make sense it's an oxymoron. And with that, good day.

  13. Long time lurker, but I felt obligated to put in my two cents for once.

    I agree that monogamy isn't necessarily natural – however, I think that's such a cop out excuse. You know what else isn't natural? Human omnivorism. That doesn't mean I don't want a good steak every once in a while. Shredded lettuce is for rabbits.

    I actually do like me a good salad though.

    With that said, everybody has a right to find their bliss – and if multiple partners is what floats your boat, so be it. However, with that you have the obligation of being upfront with your current interest about it — because however "unnatural" monogamy is, it is an accepted standard for relationships in this day and age. If your significant other is aware of and okay with your side piece – then congrats! I think the problem comes around when there's active deception involved. If that is truly the only way you can be fulfilled, then you have to embrace it and find someone who's willing to embrace it as well.

    Just personally, I prefer settling down with one person at a time. Not to say I didn't have my wild child days, but for me monogamy is significant. If I'm with you, that means that I feel most in sync with you at that moment, and am comfortable sharing most of myself with you in a way that I don't feel that I can connect with anyone else at this point in my life. Of course I'm tempted by others, but ultimately, I want to spend my time with you (unless Idris Elba is in the picture in which case…i'm not responsible for what happens. lol)

    And while I don't agree with once a cheater always a cheater, I DO believe that cheaters will continue to do what they get away with, so once I catch you…buh-bye.

    Growing up in NYC, I have discovered that for every quirky interest you have, there have to be at least seven other people in this world that share that passion. And while I don't especially believe in soulmates, I do believe in compatibility. So, don't settle – find that guy or girl that shares your relationship interests and let your freak flag fly!

  14. Nope, it's not natural….and yet, we keep expecting it. I could get biblical and resite the Ten Commandment when God commanded that "Thou Shalt Not Commit Adultery"…and whatnot. He made it a commandment because even HE knew it wasn'r a natural way of being…but, it is ultimately a choice you are making…it's a conscious thought everyday….so, it's about honoring a promise and commitment that you made to someone……it's that simple in my mind.

    1. The problem with quoting the Bible, is that it is simple to get lost in the meaning of a collection of books translated into multiple languages and then taught to us in pieces.

      It even states in the Bible that for a divorced man/woman to seek another wife/husband is adultery, yet no one in our culture would deem that as 'Adultery', Luke 16:18.

      Which is why I honestly believe it has more to do with pride, than anything else.

  15. People say that monogamy isn't normal but we aren't the only creatures on earth who practice monogamy.  I just think people who are unable to stay in a monogamous relationship are greedy.I'm not saying whether it's right or wrong but instead of making up these reasons to validate their actions they should just be upfront and say one person doesn't do it for me. 

    1. I'm all for monogamy, particularly in my relationships, but I can see why folks wouldn't be all eager to say, "listen, one person just doesn't do it for me". Just look at the comments today. The article doesn't effect your life personally yet people are still taking it pretty personally, getting defensive, and judgmental . I understand why they aren't more "open"with their lifestyle choice.

      1. @ Star

        I see where you're coming from but what I meant was if you're going to share the reason why you're in an open relationship, don't use the "monogamy is unnatural" excuse because it's not valid. Just be upfront and say "that an open relationship works best for me because of blahblahblah". 

        I think that often times when people fail at something they think it's because of the system/structure/institution rather than themselves. Everything ain't for everybody and that's cool too but don't throw shade at the people who make it work.

        1. I'm with you there. Lots of things we do aren't "natural", but we were given the gift and curse of free will. Our nature is irrelevant when it comes to our actions.

  16. Definition of MONOGAMY according to Merriam-Webster's Dictionary:
    1: archaic : the practice of marrying only once during a lifetime
    2: the state or custom of being married to one person at a time
    3: the condition or practice of having a single mate during a period of time

    Some people know how to present themselves very well, but they actually are speaking hogwash. Kenya is probably a nice person, but her definition of monogamy could not be further from the truth. When she said, has s*x with one person for their entire life. That was a hybrid version of monogamy, marriage and christianity. Because basically you're supposed to marry one person, have s*x with only them, and then even if they die, you shouldn't marry another. None of that had to do with s*x though.

    This is why I always keep Merriam saved as a link on my BB, just because someone might love to say a ridiculous definition like that.

    1. There is a big difference between the many forms of monogamy

      I was talking about sexual monogamy, not the social form

      Social monogamy refers to two persons/creatures who live together, have sex with each other, and cooperate in acquiring basic resources such as food, clothes, and money.
      Sexual monogamy refers to two persons/creatures who remain sexually exclusive with each other and have no outside sex partners for life.
      Genetic monogamy refers to two partners that only have offspring with each other.
      Marital monogamy refers to marriages of only two people.
      Varieties of monogamy
      Recent discoveries have led biologists to talk about the three varieties of monogamy: social monogamy, sexual monogamy, and genetic monogamy. The distinction between these three are important to the modern understanding of monogamy.

      Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/monogamy#ixzz1KaIyME

  17. People have to make a choice on where they stand as human beings. Do they believe that we are where we are purely by natural selection or that we are a more powerful being. Whether you believe in God or not, in addition to a posable thumb, evolution gave us the ability to think at a higher level than other creatures. What does this mean?

    If you say monogamy isn't natural, that's just a cop out. I know one thing, people do what they want to do. You are in control of your actions. Is monogamy or cheating tough? Perhaps. But it's a choice that you make. It's human nature to think about self, but as humans we raise our children longer into their development than any other species on Earth. That's saying something about human nature.

    "Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us." – Marianne Williamson

  18. Ok… so my only thought (well not my only but the only one I'm gonna share right now) is I like the quote on the word cheating:

    “Cheating is 1 of the most ridic words in our vocabulary when it comes to a relationship because we aren’t playing a game” – Kenya

    Although I'm sure she was saying to justify/explain her open relationship and that her husband is in fact not cheating b/c of said definition… that's neither here nor there in relation to me. I like the quote as it applies to my own life. I'm not playing any type of games if I invite you into my lifespace.

    Anywhozers… since Kenya was giving scientific definitions for everything I went to look up cheating/cheat/cheaters and came up w/ these:

    – 1.Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage
    – 2.Deceive or trick

    So while I get where Kenya was going and even kind of agree, let the record show that the word cheat is appropriate for the terms in which it is used. When a person cheats on their significant other they are deceiving/tricking them into believing that they remain faithful… it's that simple.

  19. What do relationships and occupations/jobs have in common nowadays? Lack of loyalty.

    "Since humans are self-preserving, we’re inherently selfish. Think about when you’re looking for a gig. You do your research, you know what type of place you wanna work (your list), you lie and embellish during the interview, then you get the gig. Once you get the gig and it’s served its purpose or isn’t as satisfying as when you started, you begin perusing job boards or asking around about other opportunities. Insert a stat about the divorce rate and what often happens in relationships after the peachy phase ends and you have the parallel. Loyalty is about as obsolete as chivalry."

    So true…

    “Cheating is 1 of the most ridic words in our vocabulary when it comes to a relationship because we aren’t playing a game” – Kenya

    I told you. Quotes for days. But seriously, I never thought of it this way. Personally, I abhor games in dating and relationships. They are the bane of my existence and make me Cottonelle soft where I shouldn’t be."

    LOVED this!!!

    “Men are bred to give women the answers they want to hear.” -Erich Williams

    The quote speaks for itself, but let me tell you a bit about this guy.

    Erich was the most brutal with his honesty. His candidness was like an enlightening kick to the nuts for everybody. He’s a bit older than the average person perusing SBM. But if this man blogged, he’d have 1 million subscribers. Erich mentioned during the discussion that he used his wedding ring to attract women at times. It was like setting a trap to catch prey and it had a very high success rate. Erich also spoke of how he set out to go after women in relationships to get them to break their own moral code. Not loving himself made him want to make others not love themselves. That sh*t is deep. Misery loves company."

    This just made me sad… and a little paranoid…

    And I agree that relationships do help to grow your character… although growing character is not the sole purpose of a relationship.

    Loved this post… Good food for thought. I'll be mulling this over all day…

  20. So I haven't commented in a while (since the old format).

    When I say monogamy, I mean being physically, spirtually and mentally connected to one person in the terms of a committed relationship.

    Let's see…for me, monogamy is natural when you found someone worth it. Point blank. When an aggreement of being exclusive is formed, whether it's marriage or a committed relationship, there comes a point when the idea of hurting that person is unbearable. If "cheating" and being with another hurts that person, cheating shouldn't and wouldn't even be an option.

    I think loyalties have been lost greatly in the American culture, but moreso, I think the establishment of loyalties have been lost. Since we don't talk anymore (we communicate via text, email, etc), we've lost touch with one another. It's not until we truly get to know the other person that we can truly establish boundaries of what's cheating, what's being faithful, and what's truly desired in a relationship.

    I'm all for different strokes for different folks–no pun intended. It is up to the couple to decide what they want together and to be open to one another about their desires and wants. I'm single now, and whenever I decide to not be so, I hope to have an open dialogue with whomever in such a way I can be completely honest to the point where I can say any and everything, and still do it with love and kindness.

    I say all that to say, until one finds someone worth it, monogamy is not natural and should be carefully determined when one is casually dating; additionally, when one is in a committed relationship, the dialogue between the two individuals is key to determining the boundaries for one another.

    1. Nice to see you back.

      "I think loyalties have been lost greatly in the American culture, but moreso, I think the establishment of loyalties have been lost. Since we don’t talk anymore (we communicate via text, email, etc), we’ve lost touch with one another. It’s not until we truly get to know the other person that we can truly establish boundaries of what’s cheating, what’s being faithful, and what’s truly desired in a relationship."

      Bingo.

  21. <blockquote cite="comment-300871">

    Dr. J: People have to make a choice on where they stand as human beings. Do they believe that we are where we are purely by natural selection or that we are a more powerful being. Whether you believe in God or not, in addition to a posable thumb, evolution gave us the ability to think at a higher level than other creatures. What does this mean?If you say monogamy isn’t natural, that’s just a cop out. I know one thing, people do what they want to do. You are in control of your actions. Is monogamy or cheating tough? Perhaps. But it’s a choice that you make. It’s human nature to think about self, but as humans we raise our children longer into their development than any other species on Earth. That’s saying something about human nature.“Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us.” – Marianne Williamson

    **slow clap**
    THIS right here is the truth and I agree with your statement 100%. Relationships are tough, people change, feelings change, and expectations waver. We control our actions and re-actions, if you know that you cannot be with only 1 person, don't sweat it, just find someone who agrees with that ideology and you're set.

    Just do me a favour, if you tell me you believe in monogamy and you PRACTICE it, don't let me catch you side-stepping, for real that's just weak….

  22. I saw your tweets from the panel..some of it I agreed with but alot of it I disagreed with. Everyone is judgemental so if you're opening up your life/thoughts, prepare to be judged. I never understood why people complain about this. It's very unrealistic and hypocritical. To me, this issue isn't whether or not monogamy is natural. We do ALOT of sh*t that isn't natural. I think some people say this to excuse their immoral behavior. To me, monogamy is better because as primal beings, we NEED checks and balances otherwise we create more problems for ourselves in the long run.

    I find people who are "happy" in open relationships to be lacking certain emotions. Either they're denying themselves, don't value themselves or they truly are void of certain "sensitivities". Any man who would be okay with another man having s.ex with is woman is not a man in my eyes OR she's not his woman. That goes against the whole primal make up of man, to conquer and dominate so to me he's either weak or the woman has little value in his eyes. As far as the woman goes, she's either trying to please this man or she's a man herself. To me, women are emotional creatures. When I meet women who view s.ex as only s.ex with no emotion, either they a) don't have strong feelings for the man (which is 90% the case cause once they fall for dude, sh*t changes) or b) they have masculine tendencies. This is my opinion on this issue. I don't think people who are in open relationships are bad people who I can't break bread with so don't run with my 2 cents.

    Cheating is exactly what it is: breaking a promise. These people are often liars so therefore I cannot trust them. I also have a problem being friends with people who consistently cheat because it usually ties into other aspects of their personality like flakiness, you can't trust them, etc. As far as side pieces go, to me this person lacks self-worth. Everyone has insecurities, including myself but there's a part of me that feels sorry for the side-piece. They're often times running from some bigger issue. I'm no Dr. Phil but it's just sad to watch. Anywho, that's my judgemental comment. 🙂 No one is perfect, it is what it is. I just try not to justify my flaws like that's how the world should be…there's nothing wrong with me but something's wrong with ya'll. <— I hate that type of thinking. It's lazy.

  23. I'm going to stock to 2 points discussed lol

    1. Judgmental black folks -probably not more than any other group but more vocal by far. People just like to say stuff that makes them feel better about themselves. Judging is one way people do that. Along with all the crappy cliche saying people say after a breakup.

    2. Cheating – I've cheated on women I was with. Maybe that confirms the statement is true for me but I dont think it really is. If ive cheated it was always a one and done deal. I knew I was "wrong" and turned from my wicked ways

    Lastly, people have to stop thinking different lifestyles/mindsets are wrong. Especially when it comes to relationships. If you don't want anyone telling you how to run yours why do you have the audacity to try to tell someone how to run theirs?

    1. To me, it's not about who thinks what lifestyle is right/wrong and no one has the right to tell you how to live your life. If I'm being asked for my opinion, I'm going to give it. I don't understand those who get mad at others for disagreeing with their lifestyle. All it is is a difference of opinion.

        1. Lack of tact? Maybe.

          I think it has more to do with people not being able to handle unfiltered honesty when it doesn't align with their own truth. That's when you get the "judgmental" mob cry. Its not a lack of tact, or being judgmental. Perhaps, its just that someone's truth doesn't align with yours (not you, Slim), and because you're so used to either co-signs or silence, you feel judged, and get upset.

        2. For the record, I was speaking in general and not on SFG's comment here. I don't have any issues with what she says daily and I do my best not to go after people even when they're unfiltered honesty greatly contradicts my own thoughts and values. This also isn't directed at N.I.A. More so, some random thoughts this chain sparked.

          In general terms, one doesn't have to be a straight-talk no chaser jerk to get a point across. I think of it the same way as feedback or constructive criticism. Most people are a lot more receptive based on the opinionated person's approach. If someone hits me up and says "you're a sh*tty writer, but I have some ideas to help you out," I'ma look at them sideways and not hear anything they said after that. If they were to say, "hey, i noticed a few things stylistically that you could do differently that might help you out," I'd listen. The same applies to comments on blogs, twitter, and wherever else.

          That example wanders a bit, but it comes back to how one chooses to express their opinion as well as how it's received.

          The thing that gets me is that people have no problem shouting their enthusiastic opinions online, but put them in a room and it usually goes down 3 notches. Rottweiler to Chihuahua. If you're going to cut deep into a person's character online, just be able to do it to their face as well. If you can't, then turn in your keyboard and get a feather duster.

          I get annoyed by the judgment because it stifles conversation and communication.

        3. Slim,

          I, too, was speaking generally. And if my comment made it seem I was attacking you for attaching SFG, then I do apologize. That was not my intent.

          I get annoyed by the judgment, but I also get annoyed by the folks who point fingers at those they deem to be judgmental because, they too, are being judgmental. And like you said, it stifles the conversation, and adds a level of emotional immaturity to what should be a respectful adult debate with people who have differing view points. In addition, I agree that the way you say something dictates how someone will respond to it. You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar…

          No one should feel they can't openly and honestly and tactfully express themselves for fear of the judgmental label. We all have had different experiences in love and relationships,and we could learn a lot form one another if, before we judged or attacked a person/idea as being judgmental, we take a step back, take a logical look at what's being said. And attacks on a specific person will always be out of order, for both the judgmental commenter, and the one pointing the finger at the judgmental commenter.

        4. The thing that gets me is that people have no problem shouting their enthusiastic opinions online, but put them in a room and it usually goes down 3 notches.

          Beautiful comment… And I will definitely make sure I am consisent… Thank You

      1. I'm with you on that. If I ask for an opinion I can't say only nice cuddly ones that make me feel good. Got to take the harsh with the nice and try to find the overall point.

        The folks that give it without being asked are usually the most judgmental from my experience but get pissed when the roles get reversed. I actually enjoy pissing people off by spring thwm how they act in various situations

  24. Late to the party, but I just want to say there's a difference between the reason and an excuse. There are no excuses for cheating, but if you want to know why some people feel so compelled to…. well for some its not so natural. I second Slim on the judgmental piece. If monogamy is a choice then I would hope we would be able to respect other people's choices to not be in a monogamous relationship.

    1. Never tardy to the party. You right on time.

      Us being so judgmental is what really affects our ability to openly and honestly communicate with each other. Imagine if we could get to the point where things are never better left (tactfully) unsaid?

  25. "Could you see yourself telling your significant other than you’re falling in love with somebody else? "

    Absolutely not. Love isn't some haphazard event. You just don't "fall" in love with someone. Like monogamy it is a choice to love someone. I don't know the workings of open relationships, so maybe it's okay to "feel" like you're falling in love with someone else. But in a monogamous relationship…that's just selfish in my opinion because once more, you're making a choice on how you feel about this person.

    1. "Like monogamy it is a choice to love someone."

      Love, in the context of dating/relationships, isn't a choice. It's an emotion and feeling. I couldn't meet someone and be like "You know what? I'm gonna love her." and instantly show her that level of affection.

      I do believe that love changes as the relationship goes on and that it becomes a choice to do what's in one's own power to maintain it and make sure it doesn't wane.

      1. I disagree. Emotions and feelings (and I also feel love is an action as well) are choices in my opinion. And, I think you're taking my statement out of context. I don't mean instantly saying, "Oh, I'm gonna love this person". I think that after getting to know a person, interacting w/ them etc., you have a choice if you're going to allow yourself to love them and open yourself up to them in that matter.

        1. "I think that after getting to know a person, interacting w/ them etc., you have a choice if you’re going to allow yourself to love them and open yourself up to them in that matter."

          Worded this way, I can meet you 85% of the way and leave the other 15% because I'm stubborn.

        2. @Slim

          Lol! I can live with that 🙂

          I'm just saying, I think sometimes we (people in general) give too much power to our emotions. And that's not to say I'm perfect, I'm guilty of it too. But if you seriously think back to anyone you've loved in a relationship…it was a choice to stick around and love that person…the good, the bad, and the ugly.

        1. @Telly if you believe in "love at first sight" then I would say it isn't a choice. Otherwise, you are choosing to spend time with person, open your feelings, allowing them to dwell in your inner workings. You chose do do all those things whether that person accepts all of that and changes their mind or doesn't accept it at all is also a choice.

        2. @ Nina

          The reason why I think it's not a choice is because you can't control your feelings,  you can only control your reactions towards your feelings. For example, I love my ex and I can't control that but I choose not to deal with him because being with him is not best for me. If I could choose not to love him I would do it in a hot second but I can't. In the case for Carl and Kenya, yes he may have fallen in love with his colleague but he could have chose to not deal with her in order to preserve the union that he and his wife shared/share.  

        3. @Tellly
          I understand what you're saying but I do not agree. Once you've made the choice to love however it is hard to turn that off because of the previous choices made.
          We can just agree to disagree

          sidenote: this dislike button it something – i'm trying to guess selected it LOL

      2. I disagree with you, Slim.
        God forbid love should be an emotion/feeling!! I'm surprised you're saying this. Do you know how often your emotion changes in a 24 hour period? Your emotions are based on outside circumstances that you have no control over. And once the emotion takes form, its hard to control.
        In fact, this is scientific…I just learned this in Neuroscience. Emotions are part of the limbic system of the brain, and there are very few connections between limbic system and the part of the brain that controls behavior. Hence, it's very hard to control emotion.

        Putting love in that category is saying loving someone is beyond your control. NO WAY!
        Emotion is a manifestation of the love you choose to have for someone. Love is not the happy feeling you have when ur loved one comes into the room, calls, or his/her name is mentioned. Love is not the butterflies in your tummy. That is an outcome of love. When the butterflies fade, love remains.

        Attraction, I agree, is beyond your control. Attraction allows you to approach the person. Once you do, you CHOOSE to continue forward into what will eventually blossom as love.

        So, in the case of infidelity…we will inevitably be attracted to others while in a committed relationship. We aren't robots! However, choosing to continue forward with another is the deception beyond all deceptions. No wonder the Bible mentions infidelity as the only acceptable reason for divorce. For it is the worst deception!

        1. You're challenging me on my blog?!?!!?!?!?!? GRROOOOAAARR!

          Nah. I'm kidding though. I read through your comment and I did think about the chemical stuff that creates the butterflies, smiles, and gigglies. I still can't say it isn't a feeling. Going back to Lala's rebuttal,

          “I think that after getting to know a person, interacting w/ them etc., you have a choice if you’re going to allow yourself to love them and open yourself up to them in that matter.”

          I take that as opening up to let them see/hear those feelings, emotions, etc. By a certain age you know what it feels like to love someone (hopefully) and how you react to it. Therefore you have control over whether or not you want to run the gamut of everything that comes with it.

          So I agree that it isn't a feeling in the sense that I wake up and feel love the same way I'd feel happy, angry (salty), or another typical emotion. I disagree that it isn't a feeling at all. I mean, you "feel" something and the only way to avoid feeling it is to avoid the circumstances that would put you there.

          ex. Black far-right conservatives sometimes make me angry. As a result, I'm not gonna hang around them and then be surprised when I throw a chair.

          Very productive disagreement though.

  26. <blockquote cite="comment-300936">

    SmartFoxGirl: I just try not to justify my flaws like that’s how the world should be…there’s nothing wrong with me but something’s wrong with ya’ll.

    I like that… A LOT.

  27. good post and good quotes. this is a lot to tackle and debate. I am of the belief that monogamy isn't "natural" for either gender of the human species, but moreso a social construct. Having said that, if I make the choice to be monogamous, I fully expect my partner to do the same–especially if we are married. All I ask is that we are on the same page and ride this thing out together. We can deal with the ebbs and flows of the path that gets us there. That seems like a panel I wouldn't have minded attending. I prefer to see the interaction of couples that have been together 10+ years, provides good perspective, IMO.

    I read a lot of good comments thus far too.

    1. Seeing Kenya and Carl's level of comfort with each other was interesting. A lot of people took issue with their lifestyle, but they seem to be doing fine. I did want to ask how people in their community responded to them.

  28. First time seeing this site:
    (To each its own…i think monogamy works for ppl who want to be monogamous)

    1) well one postive point about Kenya and her mans open relationship is their line of communication.. you have to be two very ope, honest and strong ppl to have the guts to hear your partner say i think im falling in love with someone eles and then decide to work on the situation at hand. If more ppl were that open and honest about how they were feeling when they are in a monogamous realtionship I think there would be less divorce or cheating.

    2) The only thing i want to know is how often does Kenya get to use her get out of jail free card and fuck all crazy.. I mean I saw this couple on the Mo'nique show and I felt liek all the example in which the "get out of jail card was used" was with the man stepping out physically and emotional not so much the women. (not saying that women dont) . I just feel like most men think their up for an open relationship until they figure out that the opening goes both ways..many men cant handle that.

    3) We all have been in open relationships… the dating game is the biggest open realtionship out there..now wheater you choose to date one person at a time is up to but you. I think its when we put a tittle on ppl or when we really get our feelings into on person we dont want to think about them being with noone eles. Thats how come when i here husbands or wives having open relationship I think they have lost a certain level of feelings for each other that they once had.

    1. Welcome. Watch the eff bombs though.lol

      "The only thing i want to know is how often does Kenya get to use her get out of jail free card and fuck all crazy.. I mean I saw this couple on the Mo’nique show and I felt liek all the example in which the “get out of jail card was used” was with the man stepping out physically and emotional not so much the women. (not saying that women dont) . I just feel like most men think their up for an open relationship until they figure out that the opening goes both ways..many men cant handle that. "

      They spoke about exactly this at the panel. Carl said the first time she said she was going to see someone, he had to stop and evaluate everything he felt at that moment and understand why it bothered him. Once he got passed that, it was gravy.

      The other point made was that women are so passionate in general about this topic not so much because they just think 1-on-1 is the way of the land, but because they know they couldn't get away with the same thing without being labeled a heaux, etc.

  29. It gets me so nervous when men declare that they dont tolerate anything but monogamy, NOT because I'm a cheater but because I believe it and feel that they will honor it…and sometimes the result is they end up cheating. Ugh.
    I was following Slim on Twitter when he was at the event live-tweeting and it was so interesting! One of the first things he tweeted was that there was discussion around monogamy being unnatural. Im not too sure about unnatural but I do think monogamy is very unrealistic.

    Another thing that hit home with me, was when one of the panelist said that cheating doesn't mean its the end of the relationship. I agree. I dont condone cheating but it is still workable after it happens, especially if youre married. I have been married before and we split up because he cheated… in retrospect we should have tried to work it out, there was so much more potential there.

    I really feel like monogamy is much more difficult for men than women. I also think that most men do cheat and for that reason….Ladies, don't lynch me for this—but I have considered being in a polygamous relationship/marriage. An average man may have a wife and several lovers, girlfriends etc. secretly. But polygamous marriages have the potential to be much more open and honest.

    1. <blockquote cite="comment-301089">

      Mika: Ladies, don’t lynch me for this—but I have considered being in a polygamous relationship/marriage. An average man may have a wife and several lovers, girlfriends etc. secretly. But polygamous marriages have the potential to be much more open and honest.

      NO Lynch Mob here……. but

      *Blink Blink*

      Wow. Really?? Are you still seeking or have you found that type of relationship yet? If so, how is that working out for you?

        1. Now that I think about it. Honestly….. No, it doesn't sound that crazy at all because the sad UGLY truth is what you said — that most people are in a polygamous/open relationship and they don't even know that they are. (BF/GF/Hubby/Wife = Sliding Off). *Shrug* So I can understand why you would choose to be in a polygamous relationship in hopes of getting honesty.

        2. Not to condemn poly relationships at all, but cheating happens in all kinds of relationships, even open and poly.

          I had a girlfriend in the swinger lifestyle, that got with this one couple when she was single, all was good. The agreement with that couple was that as long as you tell me about it, it's all good. But the guy liked my friend and started seeing her in secret behind his wife's back. They all swung together with other people and couples but my friend was just for him and he hid her from his wife. Sometimes the thrill, the secret, the taboo is what people seek.

          On then other hand I know a poly couple that is very normal and happy (and crazy smart) that work really well together.

  30. Monogamy gives me hives. Like I said a couple of weeks ago, I have the soul of a cheater and have cheated <del>in every relationship I've ever been in</del> in the past. Which is why I've made a concerted effort to not get into monogamous relationships until I feel ready. I make it known from the get-go that I need my freedom, whether I choose to use it or not.

    That being said, I think whether monogamy is natural is completely irrelevant. If you choose to enter into a monogamous relationship then you have to just be faithful, even if that means white-knuckling your way through it. And if you slip and let your lower desires get the best of you (as Ghostface would say) you can't blame it on the unnatural-ness of monogamy. That's a bullsh!t cop-out.

  31. I really had to sleep on this post and come back in the morning.

    “A man doesn’t wanna chase. A man wants to please a woman.” – Kenya Stevens of JujuMama LLC.

    I really want to believe this with all of my heart, but experience and society tells me that the complete inverse of this statement is true. I think that a man wants to please HIS woman, but men in general definitely want to chase women. Kenya clearly has something special with her husband that works for her…but even as he pleases her, he is chasing others. I don't know if I can reconcile this at all.

    “Cheating is 1 of the most ridic words in our vocabulary when it comes to a relationship because we aren’t playing a game”

    So when I first read this last night I really liked it. But when I came back this morning it made zero sense to me. It's not about the word itself but about the context in which we use it today. The word "cheating" is used to describe an act of deceit in a relationship, usually pertaining to sex. If we didn't call it cheating, we would call it something else but the implications would be the same…

  32. <blockquote cite="comment-300941">

    WisdomIsMisery: Fair enough. Seemed like you were outright condemning the practice at first, sorry if I misunderstood. I think you’re looking at this from the male perspective. S*x is not the only issue in an open or closed relationship, although it is the one people primarily focus on. Honestly, there are many ‘open relationships’ where s*x is not had. Like anything, there are different types, which is why open and honest communication are essential.

    However, I think the larger issue here is the focus on s*x (not just by you). Women (mostly) connect mentally before physically. Therefore, a man could be “mind f*cking” your woman long before he does so physically. To narrow your relationship concerns to just a conversation of physical cheating vs. not doesn’t wholly address many of the issues you will face. Further, a relationship should involve more than s*x or it’s not much of a relationship at all. Again, you’re not the only one who focuses on this but it’s funny when people talk about relationships, monogamy, etc they talk about s*x (or the bible) as if that’s all it takes to have a healthy and successful relationship when, judging by the number of failed relationships around us, it obviously is not that simple a formula.

    In other news, go to http://www.gravatar.com and register the email you use here to get an avatar. I believe it’s a pretty simple process.

    Okay now I see what you are saying about s*x not being the only issue in open relationships. I don't know anyone who has one (maybe I do but they are probably afraid of being stigmatized. . .?) so I guess I will concede to that. Its just that a system of open multiple partners just gives signals of hidden "problems" (s*xual or emotional). Maybe I'm just part of society that is being too stiff to an upcoming lifestyle that the future world might adopt. . .or maybe it's my "keeper" instinct in me that is trying to grasp the concept of sharing my girl with some dude who is probably hotter than me. It's an Interesting topic though, I'll be looking out for more insights to this.

    Thanks for the info on how to upload on avatar. I'll try it later on.

  33. What about the fact that men and women tend to cheat in different ways?
    While a man may be physically attracted to another woman, or his decision to step out on his wife/SO would generally be mainly physical, for women not so much.
    To keep it real we women see men who we look at and think we would have sex with and actions generally don’t follow that thought.
    Women cheat emotionally. If we are talking about cheating then we have to talk about that great “guy friend” that most women have. The one who you can talk to about anything, including your relationship with your man. Once you become emotionally connected to some other man, I believe it is a way in which you are “stepping out” on him. That guy friend who you just “gets” you becomes someone you see as having more desirable characteristics then your boyfriend/husband. The more emotionally invested a woman becomes in a man, the more likely she will cross those physical boundaries. An open relationship is generally defined as being open to physically involving other people. I think the definition should include the involvement of a member of the opposite sex emotionally. Once you do this, you take your heart away from that man, you two suffer from a breakdown in communication. Anything that you would have discussed with your man, you know hem up about it and “vent” to that male companion. This situation is how many women secretly get caught up either: A) Cheating on their boyfriend/husband with another man (It Is ALWAYS emotional first, no woman just sets fire to a bridge without having built another one) or B) Losing interest/seeing your S/O in a new light. You start to see flaws that could be addressed, yet because the other person may lack those flaws they become ideal “why cant my man be like him in this area”
    I think Men know this, hence “being able to give women the answers they want to HEAR”
    Emphasis on HEAR.
    Physical s.ex is the most obvious, but with women more goes in to actually getting us there. Emotionally cheating should be discussed as well. No relationships are not games, but cheating is the right term, because to “cheat” means to deceive, or better yet “to deprive of something expected”

  34. Wel, well, well…

    1. I am a firm believer in monogamy, and I convey this to every man I date even before we get close to the relationship stage. I don't want to waste any man's time if he's looking for multiple partners in a relationship, and I don't want him wasting my time. No open relationship for me.

    2. I believe real relationships are so much more than sex. Actually, the sex is just the icing on an incredibly delicious chocolate cake of a relationship. In that sense, I could neve be in an open relationship because I give my all, mind, body, soul, emotions, when I'm in a relationship. Its me and him, not me, him, Idris, and Sanaa.

    3. Side-pieces get nothing but side-eye from me. Cheaters as well. I believe wholeheartedly that a person knows whether or not they want to be in committed, faitful relationship before they get in them. So, if you purposely get into a relationship where monogamy is expected, and you cheat, I have no kind words for you. You aren't just a cheater, you're dishonest, lack loyality, lack honor, and you lck respect, not just for your gf/bf/husband/wife, you lack respect for yourself. And as the side-piece, you are right there with them, engaging in the dishonest, dishonorable, disrespectful activities. I can honestly say I would have a tough time being close friends to someone who cheats. One time, I can see. But a habitual cheater, naw. I don't like lying, and I don't like being put in situations where I have to lie because you lied, and included me in your mess.

    4. Love is more than a fleeting feeling. You don't fall in love at first sight, that is called lust. And you can choose to act on those feelings or you can walk away. We are all tempted daily, but we don't all give ourselves physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually to every person we find attractive. We have the power to control our emotions, and control how we act on those emotions. My guess is Carl had already began to give himself to his co-worker, and wanted permission to exlpore her physically. The only good thing about their situation is that he came to Kenya with the information, and they seem to have good communication in their relationship. I guess you can't call it cheating if the partner acquiesce. I wonder what Kenya gets out of this. Is she dipping, or is she just happy that she gets to keep her husband, at least in title?

    5. Monogamy is a choice. If you aren't ready for a committed relationship, then stay single, or find the other person not ready for a committed relationship, and the 2 of you be as open Karrine Steffans.

    6. Sometimes I think some people are in relationship just for show, not to actually build something with another person. Some people are more interested in the title of gf/bf/fiance/husband/wife than the actual building of the relationship.

    1. "Love is more than a fleeting feeling. You don’t fall in love at first sight, that is called lust. And you can choose to act on those feelings or you can walk away. We are all tempted daily, but we don’t all give ourselves physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually to every person we find attractive. We have the power to control our emotions, and control how we act on those emotions. My guess is Carl had already began to give himself to his co-worker, and wanted permission to exlpore her physically. The only good thing about their situation is that he came to Kenya with the information, and they seem to have good communication in their relationship."

      This is really the part that I like about their whole relationship. Like I said, open relationships aren't for me… so I can't get with them on that part…but I appreciate the level of honesty that they have with eachother. I think its much easier to handle if someone comes to you and lets you know up front that they are having feelings for someone else than it is for them lie to you for 6 months until you catch them creeping.

      If they tell you up front, they give you options… you can stay and let them step out, you can put your foot down and leave… you can put your foot down and try to fix your relationship…etc. When someone lies to you, they take away your options. They make decisions FOR you and that's what irritates me…

    2. You & SFG get a huge side-eye from me in the monogamy department…

      It is my understanding that SFG was/is in a multi-year monogamous? relationship (hopefully no cheating from either side…)

      Now, if neither of you has never cheated or been in some type of affair, then I can give these comments some credence…

      I don't know your track records, so I can't call it…

  35. Interesting post!

    I'm certain that no man wants to have to "Police Chase" a woman, but I believe that men are cool with actively pursuing a woman who is showing him clear signals of returned interest…signs that the pursuit is "pleasing" her.

    <blockquote cite="comment-300936">

    SmartFoxGirl: …as primal beings, we NEED checks and balances otherwise we create more problems for ourselves in the long run.

    Considering the tone many of the noted quotes have, here is my general thought. Modern society has opted for all these alternatives as solutions to problems that still arise while upholding the standards and morals of old as an attempt to justify their foolish choices make things better and, collectively, we're just making things worse. Seriously, I LOVE being able to have certain liberties as a black woman today but MAN, I would appreciate safer neighborhoods, in-tact families, and REAL entertainment like folks had back in the day. Does anyone exercise self-control anymore? Does anyone respect themselves enough to honor their own WORD and CHARACTER?! Folks have no shame anymore…and it's sad. And then, folks want to impose their alternative thinking on the rest of the world like I should be okay with it…putting cheating and all other random mess on every TV show to desensitize us so we'll consider this crap every day living. If that makes me judgmental, I'll be that.

    And folks wonder why the world is going to pot…

    1. Thanks for quoting me. I completely agree. I would LOVE to rob a bank, fly to Aruba, eat mango cheesecake and have strapping mandingos conquer me all the live long day. You know what would happen to me if I did that? I'd be a thief who turned into an @sshole from getting my way, fat and filled with STDs (not to mention a serious case of roast beef vajayjay). We can't do what we want. We see what happens when we over-indulge a child. Being an adult is about doing what's good for us in the long run, not indulging our every whim. I like how you summed it all up. We need checks and balances because people can't be trusted anymore. Judgement is off and there's no such thing as common sense.

  36. <blockquote cite="comment-301199">

    GirlSixx: Now that I think about it. Honestly….. No, it doesn’t sound that crazy at all because the sad UGLY truth is what you said — that most people are in a polygamous/open relationship and they don’t even know that they are. (BF/GF/Hubby/Wife = Sliding Off). *Shrug* So I can understand why you would choose to be in a polygamous relationship in hopes of getting honesty.

    You understand?! Thanks. Some people just dont get it and judge way too much. I've also gotten to a point where the behavior of others dont surprise me at all. So, it may seem like I dont care if my man cheats but its not true….. I just charge everything to the game.

    1. I understand Mika. It is really funny that open relationships are seen as an issue where people have said they were a cheater, or they have been the one on the side before, cheating with married people, having FWB, fkuc buddies, sleeping with multiple people at the same time and all of the above, all the while lying about it and not being upfront. But when people want honesty/open relationships people have a problem with it. Doesnt make any sense at all.

      And polygamous relationships are nothing new. There are some places where that is just common practice. Monogamy isnt the only relationship form and it most likely never has been.

  37. I went to the JuJuMaMa website and watched some of the videos they posted and Kenya has also had very strong feelings for someone outside of her relationship, and she told her husband about it. So it is not just Carl participating. Carl has also said that if she found someone else and she wanted to leave him, he would support her. He could be lying but with the type of relationship they have I believe it. I just wanted to say that because some people think it is only Carl.

  38. Monogamy is natural for men; cheating is natural for boys. If a man decides to be monogamous he will be monogamous. If he decides to have multiple partners (polygamous) he will communicate that with his lover and give her the option to stay or leave. He won't cheat and lie because that would be a discredit to his word. And as men, we are defined by our word and, ultimately, our ability to commit. My 2 cents.

  39. My bestie worked for Kenya & Carl & have known them for years so I was introduced to them while they were monogamous & in their current open relationship. They are amazing and have such great insight on gender roles & relating. My favorite quote ever is, "the purpose of relationships are to grow, the benefit is love" ~ Kenya. It was her blog that inspired the birth of my blog.

  40. Great wrap up Slim. Sounds like a very interesting event.
    I know that I couldn't handle an open relationship, but I do admire the level of honesty involved in a functional open/poly relationship.

  41. <blockquote cite="comment-300954">

    NinaFontaine: I find it interesting borderline hilarious that some of the men in the post agree with the open relationship concept and encouraging the forum to have an open mind about it and not to judge those who do it……….Sounds good online until your girl comes to you with the idea……..please tell me your first thought will not well who do you want to have chex with???!!

    An open relationship would be something you would have to get into INITIALLY, not after 2 years of dating your boo, then come to him/her on some, "I think an open relationship would work for us" lol

    But as someone said before, FwB, F-Buddies, 'Boos' are all terms for open relationships and many of us have had them unknowingly. A rose by any other name is still a Rose

    1. Based on Slim's post I don't get the impression that 16 years ago Carl and Kenya decided that but I maybe wrong……. But your response here seems to assume that thought of " after 2 years of dating your boo, then come to him/her on some, “I think an open relationship would work for us” lol" is a far fetched reality.

      In my opinion if you aren't engaged or married you're single (as engagement is a commitment to be married) (( also seen as unconventional to most people I know)) so if that is considered being in an open relationship then – it is what is. 2 single people can agree to be monogamous and take it from there……….

  42. <blockquote cite="comment-300936">

    SmartFoxGirl:
    I saw your tweets from the panel..some of it I agreed with but alot of it I disagreed with. Everyone is judgemental so if you’re opening up your life/thoughts, prepare to be judged. I never understood why people complain about this. It’s very unrealistic and hypocritical. To me, this issue isn’t whether or not monogamy is natural. We do ALOT of sh*t that isn’t natural. I think some people say this to excuse their immoral behavior. To me, monogamy is better because as primal beings, we NEED checks and balances otherwise we create more problems for ourselves in the long run.

    I find people who are “happy” in open relationships to be lacking certain emotions. Either they’re denying themselves, don’t value themselves or they truly are void of certain “sensitivities”. Any man who would be okay with another man having s.ex with is woman is not a man in my eyes OR she’s not his woman. That goes against the whole primal make up of man, to conquer and dominate so to me he’s either weak or the woman has little value in his eyes. As far as the woman goes, she’s either trying to please this man or she’s a man herself. To me, women are emotional creatures. When I meet women who view s.ex as only s.ex with no emotion, either they a) don’t have strong feelings for the man (which is 90% the case cause once they fall for dude, sh*t changes) or b) they have masculine tendencies. This is my opinion on this issue. I don’t think people who are in open relationships are bad people who I can’t break bread with so don’t run with my 2 cents.

    Cheating is exactly what it is: breaking a promise. These people are often liars so therefore I cannot trust them. I also have a problem being friends with people who consistently cheat because it usually ties into other aspects of their personality like flakiness, you can’t trust them, etc. As far as side pieces go, to me this person lacks self-worth. Everyone has insecurities, including myself but there’s a part of me that feels sorry for the side-piece. They’re often times running from some bigger issue. I’m no Dr. Phil but it’s just sad to watch. Anywho, that’s my judgemental comment. No one is perfect, it is what it is. I just try not to justify my flaws like that’s how the world should be…there’s nothing wrong with me but something’s wrong with ya’ll. <— I hate that type of thinking. It's lazy.

    SFG although i am in an open relationship and don't agree with everything you said, i personally have no problem with your opinion nor the way you stated it. open relationships are an aquired taste that is not for everyone and the poeple that choose not to be in one earn the same respect from me that the people that are in one do… i will say that an open relationship does NOT equal cheaters/liars etc.. i despise people who cheat which means to decieve for a certain outcome and take advantage of other people's feelings… and as for lying, in the concept of an open relationship lying should be as close to non-existant as possible

    1. Yes, I agree that's why I separated cheaters and liars (3rd paragraph). If you are open with something and your partner approves it, it's not lying nor is it cheating. That's why I said I could break bread with people in open relationships but I have a hard time hanging around habitual cheaters/liars. One is honesty and the other is deceit. Please reread what I wrote and you'll see what I mean. 😉

      1. SFG

        i was disagreeing about the lacking of emotions or me being more man-like… we are totally in agreeance about the lying and cheating thing

    2. @Yoles… if you dont mind could you give me some details on some of the rules and guidelines you have for your partner in an open relationship..?

      Also in an open relationship can you use your (stepping out card) a little to much ex: you and your man are in an open relationship but he's seeing 3 other women besides you? (Is it still a relationship at that point (in terms of being insync emotionally spritually with eachother) or do you then become just one of many?

      Just asking b/c I feel like some of us including myself are trying to understand how ppl make the situation work.
      (Forgive my spelling era's )

      1. no problem… the guidlines are simple… be honest and open.. don't be afraid to share what you think, feel and want and be respectful… also for us it is not an excuse to run out and be wild and crazy with yours. its more like other parts of the relationship are nutured and cared for deeply including loyalty-i know that we ride and die for each other, if he has, i have and vice versa. we care for and about each other, we can depend on each other-, honesty, trust, emotional intimacy and really knowing each other etc…

        i live with my S/O and first and foremost is respect.. no "second" is bought to our home and condoms are used ALL THE TIME. and we are always honest to the seconds as well. telling other people that you are in a relationship is paramount. i have spoken with a second of his before and she stated if me and my ex were so in snch we probably would still be together. he has never expressed desire to speak to any of mine before.

        i will say it takes people secure in themselves and their relationship to execute this without ill will. i have had many women ask me what if he likes a girl more than you, want if her sex is better than yours to which i reply, he has the same dangers and i am not fooling myself to think that my sex is the end all be all of his lifetime. but i know that my whole package, the friendship, emotional intimacy, loyalty, bonding, shared experiences, funny stories, great sex, good times, honesty and all round content feeling with each other etc is what is keeping us together 4+ years

  43. "To me, this issue isn’t whether or not monogamy is natural. We do ALOT of sh*t that isn’t natural. I think some people say this to excuse their immoral behavior. To me, monogamy is better because as primal beings, we NEED checks and balances otherwise we create more problems for ourselves in the long run. I find people who are “happy” in open relationships to be lacking certain emotions. Either they’re denying themselves, don’t value themselves or they truly are void of certain “sensitivities”.

    I totally agree. A world without rules would be chaotic. We NEED rules and morals and values or else we'd be uncivilized. It is the only thing that separates us from animals. Monogamy is awesome for many reasons, but for me, it's so that I don't have to worry about catching these diseases floating around, assuming that my partner and are faithful in our commitment to be monogamous.

    "Any man who would be okay with another man having s.ex with is woman is not a man in my eyes OR she’s not his woman. That goes against the whole primal make up of man, to conquer and dominate so to me he’s either weak or the woman has little value in his eyes. As far as the woman goes, she’s either trying to please this man or she’s a man herself. To me, women are emotional creatures. When I meet women who view s.ex as only s.ex with no emotion, either they a) don’t have strong feelings for the man (which is 90% the case cause once they fall for dude, sh*t changes) or b) they have masculine tendencies. This is my opinion on this issue. I don’t think people who are in open relationships are bad people who I can’t break bread with so don’t run with my 2 cents. Cheating is exactly what it is: breaking a promise."

    This is exactly what I think about when I get in discussions about open marriages. Talk about unnatural: A man being ok with his wife sleeping with other men is the epitome of unnatural. The only men that can handle this are weak or don't hold their woman in high esteem. Either way, I can't see how anyone (man or woman) who is truly in love with their partner could be ok with this. Open relationships should not be compared to open marriages. They are different in that you're getting to know each other in a relationship. A "marriage" is a union and a deeper commitment, and often involves deeper feelings and some sort of emotional attachment.

    The bottom line is: Monogamy requires discipline, virtue and loyalty, which are qualities we look for in leaders. Children seek to fulfill every single selfish desire, and kick and scream when they don't get what they want. Adults, and real men, welcome discipline and understand that you can't always get/and shouldn't have EVERYTHING you want.

    1. Can I yaymen this?

      " Either way, I can’t see how anyone (man or woman) who is truly in love with their partner could be ok with this. Open relationships should not be compared to open marriages. They are different in that you’re getting to know each other in a relationship. A “marriage” is a union and a deeper commitment, and often involves deeper feelings and some sort of emotional attachment."

      Truth.com. I know a good handful of people who do the open thing. Great. I'm happy for them, HOWEVER in almost every single case I can see where the priority/value lies with each (or lack there of). Usually it's a substitute for distance or busy schedules, etc but almost all are in the early phases of their relationship. When you have a long term relationship or marriage, there is a high level of emotional attachment or inlove feelings. I cannot understand how anyone who has a high level of emotional attachment and is IN LOVE with their partner, can be okay with another person being intimate with them. It's the phoniest thing since bologna. Maybe they like each other, love each other or care for each other…in love? Mi no comprende. That defies the meaning behind the emotion.

  44. "Monogamy isn’t natural for men…" (shrug) Guess I must be an alien in the male sub-species… (smile) Besides, my experiences with women and blending-in-with-the-background observations of some women have shown that monogamy isn't natural for some women, either…

    "What do relationships and occupations/jobs have in common nowadays? Lack of loyalty." It's been a disturbing trend I've observed that many woman are as non-loyal as the men they b1tch about doing the same thing… (smile) No surprise here…

    "Since humans are self-preserving, we’re inherently selfish…" (shrug) Again, I must be an alien… (smile) Actually, I'm a symbiont which, by nature, tends to think of the other person. However, after bonding with a few emotional and monetary parasites, I've learned to be more discerning… Mainly by seeing if the female to whom is thought about being bonded actually asks of herself what she "demands" of me. PLUS, I tend to be at times "cruelly blunt" with females… (smile) Cold water showers do have their uses…

    “A man doesn’t wanna chase. A man wants to please a woman.” I partially agree with this… I will chase a female who WANTS to be caught. Frankly, life is too short to play games… (smile) Speaking of which…

    “Cheating is 1 of the most ridic words in our vocabulary when it comes to a relationship because we aren’t playing a game” To a symbiont like me, a relationship is NOT a game… I don't play "how S.L. gets over on a female"… (shrug) Simply because I've had "how a female gets over on S.L." ONE time too many… Oh… HATING games in dating doesn't make me "…Cottonelle soft…"–it makes me adamantium-hard. (shrug) Which most females seem to NOT know how to handle… (shrug) Guess the saying "stand for nothing and you'll fall for anything" seems to be a female-oriented stance… (laughing fiendishly)

    “Scientific definition of monogamy is that a person only has sex with one person during their life even if that person passes.” Huh?!?!?!?!

    "…Most of us aren’t comfortable with unfiltered honesty and communication in our relationships because of the potential implications…and selfishness…" Actually, I AM "…comfortable with unfiltered honesty and communication…" in relationships with my woman since it's only right that she knows where I stand when it comes to commitment and that I know where she stands (and/or runs). (shrug) If a female isn't down with commitment, that says as much to me about her as it would to her if I wasn't down with commitment.

    “After being married 16 years, the love changes and it’s different. You experience a hormonal cocktail in 1st 2 years…” I've learned to NOT relax with a woman until after two years. The after-sex glow wears off after a time, but I'M interested in the WOMAN that a female IS… (shrug) So I wait for a female to show HER true colors…

    “Men are bred to give women the answers they want to hear.” Said it before, and I'll say it again… Guess I must be an alien in the male sub-species… I guess the female friends I have come to me because I specialize in giving women "cold showers". My stance is that reality also gives females the five-fingered convo, too… (shrug) Guess I tend to be the warning sign… Anyway, when it comes to me and my woman, the truth will either draw her closer (which says a LOT about her character), or it will run her off. (smile)

    “If you have a partner whose ego strength is weakened, they’re going to seek narcissism and accomplishment elsewhere.” I'm not a narcissist, but, after bonding with some emotional and monetary female parasites, I've learned to seek CONNECTION elsewhere…

    “Being the side piece to chicks gave me all sorts of trust issues when I got in relationships” (shrug) Being dependable and male has its disadvantages. I feel this dude…

    “Once a cheater always a cheater isn’t necessarily true. They become repeaters if they don’t suffer consequences.” I smile in silent observation as karma gets back at female cheaters while many women rejoice when it happens to male cheaters.

    “The misconception about infidelity is that you can do it and come out unscathed.” That's some granite truth right there…

    “The purpose of a relationship is to grow your character.” That's not only true about relationships that work, but it's a POSSIBLE truth about relationships that didn't work. The female douchebags I've encountered have tempered me. (smile) Among other things…

    “You don’t have to cheat to get love. You can get a dog.” Been telling females similar to this for YEARS… (smile) As well as admonishing them to NOT treat a man like a dog if she needs a dog…

  45. <blockquote cite="comment-300824">

    Lyrically Inclined: Because I find it hard to imagine a happy partner wake up in the morning and be like “hey baby I wanna f*ck other people, hope that’s cool with you” …No offense or anything

    Lyrically,
    While I understand your point of view on this, I have to disagree. It is perfectly natural and normal to be attracted other people outside of the relationship. That attraction or lusting oftentimes can be 100% separate from the relationship. Basically, you can be super in love and still want to 'smash' some one else. Sometimes physical attraction is just that. Now for women, its often harder for us to do that because our emotions typically get all wrapped up in the coitus, and it is more difficult for us to separate the two. I think if the information is shared in a respectful way, and depending on the parameters of your relationship it could be a stepping stone for a couple. Who knows, maybe a lot of role playing may be introduced to the bedroom? 😉

    1. I agree with your points but lets be honest: sometimes we humans can't take honesty/truth in an easy (pardon the redundancy). An open declaration of one's desire to pursue his/her multiple-partner fantasy to the S/O can raise a lot of questions like "is the sex that really bad?" or "Am I not good enough anymore that he/she wants another lover?" But I guess birds of the same feather flock together– so it would be easier for couples who share the same Ideals to successfully have that sort of relationship.

  46. <blockquote cite="comment-300894">

    Therelucantsocialte: The thing is… people who are able to participate in an open relationship usually are super honest with each other. I think that there could be really great sense of security the develops from knowing that your partner is going to be that honest with you.

    I ended up saying this down the line of comments, so I agree on this.

      1. <blockquote cite="comment-301841">

        Starita34:
        I wanna be monogamous with your avi

        I can’t help but smile looking at it <3

        aww, that's sweet…I aim to please 😉

        1. I'm sorry, I fat fingered the dislike burton, it was supposed to be the like button #Whomps

  47. Loved this posting. The quote from Kazi about not being able to trust after he has been a side-piece himself stuck out to me the most. I think it also goes hand in hand with acknowledging how
    judgemental we can be. It takes 2 people to cheat but so often the side piece believes he or she is the innocent in the situation thinking, "I'm not in a relationship so I'm not in the wrong by sleeping with someone who is". But when you flip to the other side of being in a relationship those days of being the side piece will come back to haunt you.

  48. I just want to point out that I think we all agree on one thing: whether one feels monogamy is natural or not; it should never be used as an excuse for cheating, right? I could be wrong.

  49. This a good post. It touches on some touchy topics.

    In my eyes, monogamy isn't natural or unnatural. Choice is natural. And the decision to be monogamous or not can be influenced by one's community, the relationship or oneself. This goes for males and females. I abhor the idea that my gender predisposes me to jeopardize my relationships. Self preservation requires the a careful rejection and fulfillment of desires b/c many of them conflict.

    Here's my analysis of the "open relationship":

    Let's rid ourselves of the overuse of s*x as the main catalyst for the occurrence of "open relationships." S*x is a side-effect. I think the idea of open relationship is a rouse. People are trying to wrap their minds of a relationship where "cheating" in the context of their relationship is permitted. This is the wrong approach. The "open relationship" movement is really an honesty movement. A lot of people are not honest about their intentions and desires while dating. People go into these silent agreements where no one really knows what's going on. In my eyes, the "open relationship" is the admittance of emotional connection with a person who you can't or want to claim (monogamous) ownership to. Meaning that, all these long-term side-chicks are in open relationships. An emotional connection is allowed for more than one partner. Sex can be a side-effect. Otherwise it'll be called "free love/s*x" which it isn't.

    So what do people gain from the exclusiveness of monogamous everything? Security? Not really. You still have to trust. "open relationships" put into a person's face the potential that a person will have connections with others. Why does it seem like people require the illusion that they lover has emotions for no one else or have any external desires?

    I think some things should be specific to every relationship. So let's say there's a woman in a open relationship with a guy and she has a side piece. There has to be some intimate aspects specific to each relationship. For example, sex with Guy A but NEVER with Guy B. If there's a restaurant that's emotionally relevant to Her and Guy B, her and Guy A can never go there. The commitment to the other person's well-being and maintaining the relationship is not mutually exclusive to having an emotional connection with others. The difference b/t this and her simply "dating" two guess is that she consider her self "taken" eaning she's not "dating around" and not "acting like she's single" and are honest with both guys and have actively drawn boundaries between the two relationships. The guys don't have to meet or anything. Just be aware of the openness. It's cheating once all forms of intimacy are shared between more than one relationship. In that way you create the impression of exclusivity which is manipulative, which is wrong.

    Will I ever do a open relationship? Only if it starts open and I'm the one that's smashing if there's any smashing involved. LOL Going from monogamy to open is a no no. Which meant that a person developed feelings outside of the relationship and wishes to act on them within the confines of the relationship (clearly before I hear about it).

  50. I just feel like once you say you wa nt to be in a committed relationship with someone you are telling them that there are certain feelings and actions that are just for them that you no longer want to share with some one eles. When you take your marriage vows its a promise between you an dthat one person not you that person and their side pieces. For you to jump from being in a committed marriage to an open one I feel like theres something both parties think are missing and both parties are seraching for.

    For example i went on Jujumama blob (kenya's and her husbands blog). They both went to college together and got married at a young age 21. 11 years later her husband told her he was falling in love with another women..she was sacred but then it made her feel free. When I read this all I saw were 2 ppl who got married to young and didnt explore their option in their younger years when most do. Sometimes the ppl who are our kings at 21 can no longer fulfil the needs of our kingdom at 31 b/c what we needed then is not what we need now. i mean when your with someone for 11 yrs you have invested time with them..kids money so i can see maybe why they just dont let it go.. but idk to me if your so busy fucking other ppl and building emotional relationship with others outside the marrige ..when the hell do you have time to do it with your spouse.

    Now for ppl who want it open from the jump more power to you… but I just feel like you keep it open when what you have aint worth closing other ppl out for. (Not in every situation but in alot of situations i think)

  51. <blockquote cite="comment-301490">

    Slimuel L. Jackson:
    You’re challenging me on my blog?!?!!?!?!?!? GRROOOOAAARR!

    Nah. I’m kidding though. I read through your comment and I did think about the chemical stuff that creates the butterflies, smiles, and gigglies. I still can’t say it isn’t a feeling. Going back to Lala’s rebuttal,

    “I think that after getting to know a person, interacting w/ them etc., you have a choice if you’re going to allow yourself to love them and open yourself up to them in that matter.”

    I take that as opening up to let them see/hear those feelings, emotions, etc. By a certain age you know what it feels like to love someone (hopefully) and how you react to it. Therefore you have control over whether or not you want to run the gamut of everything that comes with it.

    So I agree that it isn’t a feeling in the sense that I wake up and feel love the same way I’d feel happy, angry (salty), or another typical emotion. I disagree that it isn’t a feeling at all. I mean, you “feel” something and the only way to avoid feeling it is to avoid the circumstances that would put you there.

    ex. Black far-right conservatives sometimes make me angry. As a result, I’m not gonna hang around them and then be surprised when I throw a chair.

    Very productive disagreement though.

    Thank you, Slim. There are definitely emotions/feelings involved. That's why I said it's a manifestation of love. You can love someone long after the giggly feelings fade and you can have giggly feelings without truly loving. Hence the difference between being "in love" and lust. People rely too much on those feelings that will most certainly subside (doesn't mean it will disappear completely). And when it does, they say they've fallen out of love and seek solace in a divorce or an extramarital affair.
    It's normal to wake up and not FEEL love for your partner…maybe for weeks. But the choice to love and commit means that you stick it out.
    At the end, it may just be semantics, but I'd be wary of a man who ONLY FEELS love for me, for I know how fickly feelings can be. I'd rather he make a choice to love me, despite my flaws, past, present and future.
    😉
    Actually, I'm in Brazil now on vacay, and for a few days in my travel, I've been staying with a friend and her wonderful family, including her parents who's been married for 27 years. Nevermind that EVERYONE in Brazil shows PDA in public (lots of kissing everywhere), but this couple still interact as if they are newlyweds! Kissing, holding hands, hugging. It's amazing to see. I asked them the secret to their marriage. I received lots of wisdom, thru their daughter's translation of course. Choice was definitely in there. Even choosing to tell each other "i love you" many times a day, amongst other things.

  52. Great discussion today, I'd just like to add one thing. I know everyone is feeling the whole "if you've every dated, been cheated on, or had sex outside of a relationship you were in an open relationship" thing but I just can't get with that at all. For a couple reasons:

    It cheapens actual open relationships. They are RELATIONSHIPS, not random hookups or some stay at home while you eff whomever you want. And like all relationships, they are not solely based on sexual relations.

    And when dating, or being cheated on, or having uncommitted sex, there is either no expectation of a commitment at all or an expectation of monogamy that was broken. The participants did not chose an open relationship and like any other relationship it has to be entered into willingly by all participants.

    Cheating != Open Relationships

  53. Regarding Chris Kazi Rolle's comment…..AMEN!!!! I was just telling someone the same thing last night. Having been a sidepiece, I realized how easy it was for him to step out on his significant other (numerous times) no matter how much he claimed he loved her. Having also been a cheater, I realized how effortless (and guilt-free) it was for me to lie to him (although the person I cheated with was nowhere near as satisying as he was). Playing both sides eventually catches up and torments you because guilt and fear of karma affects your ability to trust future potentials. In your mind, you're always waiting for them to fuck up.

  54. “Once a cheater always a cheater isn’t necessarily true.”

    ONCE A CHEATER ALWAYS A CHEATER WILL ALWAYS BE TRUE! PEOPLE DON'T CHANGE!

  55. Listening to women call their men while I lay next to them since that one time I mentioned,

    Every time I see a video like that on WSHH or HGF.net… It reminds me over & over to

    1. Pick a Good Woman in the first place

    2. Be the Chris Brown of her existence & never be slippin'

  56. Good Afternoon,

    Before I read the o so interesting comments… Let me see if I can add some young wisdom to this clique

    Monogamy has been a tool to use to control people & sexuality… Some by rulers, some by religion, beta males & the current BIGGEST promoters are…. women (when it is convenient for them, except @Maxfab)… so I know that monogamy has some kicka** positives… no lie… I can't help but think that these groups have something to gain from people being monogamous… It sounds selfish when I think about it…

    Last point… for those who are PRO-monogamy & for those who are PRO-polygamy to be more accepting of each other…

    Both paths are HARD for those who are not disciplined, honest & communicative… And neither path is the "right" path… It is just a lifestyle preference…

    Thanks Slarack for another heavy hitter…

  57. I think there are too many men in the world to make that kind of blanket statement. I cringe when I hear, "All men cheat." It's just not possible. Maybe all men in your circle cheat. The question is why? Is it because men never witnessed first hand, a loving, monogamous relationship? Is it that faithful men are never acknowledged for being faithful? Is that women are settling for a piece of a man rather than no man at all? The easy answer is men are wired to have many women. In the spirit of having fun, here's a ;ink to the Top 5 Reasons to Rethink That Side-Piece. http://www.tonyscott.tv

  58. The part cheap Louis Vuitton totes engage in within people鈥檚 lifestyle can鈥檛 become forgotten. In fact, Louis Vuitton can be a renowned extravagance manufacturer on earth. If you feel you’ll be able to accept a Louis Vuitton replica, you’ll be able to move straight away to your store. Louis Vuitton Labeling look-alike handbags bought in the store can be bought that has a small sum of money, so you can pick one of these as outlined by the taste. Truly, most Louis Vuitton Product labels duplicate handbags tend to be desired since they’re all made from elegant components and created by means of professional worksmen. We imagine you might get one that will be perfect for you personally.

LEAVE YOUR COMMENT

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Get SBM Delivered

Get SBM Delivered

Single Black Male provides dating and relationship
advice for today's single looking for love

You have Successfully Subscribed!

Pin It on Pinterest

Shares
Share This