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She’s Out Of My League

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Not every post's pic has to feature black people!

I recently watched the movie, She’s Out of My League. It’s actually pretty good. I will qualify that compliment with the fact that I began watching it with the lowest of expectations, so you may want to keep that in mind. At one point in the movie, the characters break down the spread one has to cover in order to get with someone “out of your league.”

Stainer: Okay, anyway… I love Kirky, but let’s face it, the guy’s a five.
Devon: Stainer, that’s just a dirty pool. He’s at least a six.
Stainer: A six? Alright you go ahead and pump rainbows into his @-hole. I’m just being honest.
Jack: Come on, cut him some slack. Look. Half a point cause he’s a nice guy. Right? And he’s funny, so that’s half a point each. That brings him to six.
Stainer: But he drives a sh*tbox, deduct a point. Take a point off.
Kirk: Wait, what’s wrong with my Neon?
Stainer: Oh, I don’t know, except the people who make that car don’t even like it. So, we’re back to a five.
Jack: Five.
Stainer: Meanwhile, this Molly, is a hard ten. And that five point disparity, that’s a chasm.
Kirk: Chasm?
Stainer: Chasm! You can’t jump more than two points.

As I’ve gotten older and remain unmarried, I’ve had no choice but to reflect back on some of my more serious relationships and attempt to figure out why they failed. I then have to decipher if they are worth pursuing anew, assuming the person hasn’t moved on to some less qualified chump bigger and better things.

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“I’m just sayin you can do better” – Droopy Drake

Like most men people, I’ve wanted someone who is out of my league. However, the more I thought about that statement, the more I began to wonder what the hell it even meant. Is it related to looks only? Intelligence? Career and life accomplishments?

If I date someone who’s beautiful but dumb and unemployed, what have I really accomplished? Is she still out of my league? What if she’s ok in the looks department but advanced in her career and extremely intelligent? Is she out of my league then too? Is this strictly based on my own interpretation or the perception of others?

I have a friend and we were dead serious joking about how we want a woman that is so fine when people see us together they make bitterly jealous and snide remarks like: 1) I’m just sayin you can do better; 2) He must be rich; or 3) He aint hittin that right!

I have wondered for quite some time what my future wife will be like. Upon first impressions, what will I and others think of her? Does it matter what others think? For me? Honestly? Yes, sort of. I want a woman in my life that others are jealous of. Be it for superficial or intellectual reasons or the lifestyle her and I have worked together to build. With age, I’ve gotten more practical.

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There was a time in my life where I vowed only to (seriously)  date women that were finer than the last woman I seriously dated. This was sustainable for a while until, well, I dated a woman that was too fine to top. Shortly thereafter I realized how stupid a goal this was to have in the first place. You know how it goes: When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways…

Streetz already did a full analysis on Drake’s Marvins Room, from which I quoted from earlier. What bothered me about this song and a part of the movie itself is how much influence we can sometimes allow others to have on our relationships. If some man, even your X-man, has the influence to make you question the merits of our relationship simply by telling you that you can do better, how strong was our foundation to begin with? I have a simple rule about men trying to take my woman, which I know they will because I have no plans to be with a woman that men wouldn’t want to take. Indirectly, it’s a compliment to you and my taste that another man would attempt such a feat. At the same time, if he can take you, he can keep you.

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Ladies and gentlemen, are you consistently looking for someone out of your league or are you content dating the men in or below your league? How do you determine where they fall – based on your own opinion or that of others? What are your thoughts on the movie character’s conversation highlighted above? Ladies, if you’re a 10, how does a 5 go about covering “the Chasm?”

Comment(183)

  1. Hmm.. I sort of believe in the 'out of league' premise but then I sort of don't. I have crushed and liked dudes who were not in the same social circles I was in, and thus could be perceived that he was out of my league but I probably could of snagged him if I gave him eye contact and a smile. But my shy butt won't do it because of whatever issues I hold. I don't think for women their are men who are 'out of their league' because truthfully, with a little persistence a woman can snag any man she wants. Keeping him is the problem. lol.

    1. "I don't think for women their are men who are 'out of their league' because truthfully, with a little persistence a woman can snag any man she wants. Keeping him is the problem."
      I just wanna agree w/ u! 🙂
      *ESPECIALLY the shy part…gasp! ( ._.) <<=my private shame!

    2. @pqw2a This has some truth to it… given that Tameka got Usher to give her a ring… But Tameka is at least a 6…

      I know alot of examples where mud duckish MEN got a Rosa Acosta or a Stacey Dash…

      But are there any examples of a mud duckish (ugly women, not a WHITE WOMAN do sleep with BLACK MEN from a jeaous white man's perspective) woman who got a Brad Pitt or a Boris Kodjoe…

      Because if you cannot give me ten examples for women, then not every woman can get her dream guy the way almost every man (even midgets & severely crippled men) can get there dream girl…

  2. It's like when they say shoot for the moon and if you fail you'll still be in the stars. I think we all shoot for someone out of our league. I will say this, I mentioned this in another post recently. You always have to think if you're the guy she settled for. That's not a comforting feeling. People will think you did alright for yourself and you got the trophy. But you don't want them to also think that she could have done better. That's for both sexes, ya dig.
    My recent post Open Relationships Don’t Effing Work

      1. Sorry bro, but that doesn't make any sense. If you disagree 100% then i'll ask you to explain. What exactly do you not agree with? People don't shoot for the stars, or that you never want to be the guy that she settled for? You making me think you just 100% disagreeing just to do so.

        1. "I think we all shoot for someone out of our league."

          maybe i should have clarified myself. that's the part i disagree with. just like you mentioned below in the comments section. you got at vanessa simmons right? but did you really think she was out your league? i believe if you really did then you wouldn't have approached in the first place. like i said in my comment i don't think anyone is out of my league.
          My recent post Celibacy Blues

    1. The concept of this movie interested me but I dont consider any woman out of my league. I do recognize they may feel differently. This is partly attributed to my arrogance/confidence but it's actually attributed more to the fact that women, for the most part, take a far more holistic review of men than men take of women. For example, men typically won't even check for the unattractive girl no matter how great her personality whereas even if you're an unattractive man, if you have other winning qualities, you're still in the running with women.

      1. True but now adays even if your face is unattractive as a women, if your body is crazy you could still be in the running with some men. I’ve seen many girls with sexy dudes whose face was alright but her body(booty) was crazy

      2. Agreed here. There really isn't one woman who is out of a man's league, given the circumstances of course that you briefly pointed out with the "other winning qualities." i.e. Hitch w/ the Albert/Allegra romance angle from the film.

        1. Exactly. The biggest obstacle for most men is getting past that first layer of BS/guard most women have up, especially most "hot" women. But if you can get past that and she actually gets to know you, you're golden. The cold approach is most difficult but not impossible. It's easier if she meets you at a function of mutual interest or through a friend, etc. Then you're basically right back on equal footing.

        2. There’s no man out of a women’s league at least in the look department, I think guys look at other factors/qualities for example confidence,sex appeal, style. I’m sure we all know a girl that is pretty but doesn’t have any of the three and has a hard time getting the man she wants or thinks is out of her league. We also know a girl who is the complete opposite face is not the cutest but she has all the qualities and bags dudes who other would consider out of her league

  3. Hmm…. I don't really think about leagues. If I had to pick one, I would say I mostly date within my league… I think it would be pretty hard to find a guy who was out of my league… Then again, do girls even talk about leagues like that? I hear guys talking about it… not so much girls. As for me, I just focus on maintaining my standards and date based on that.

    So what can a 5 do to snag a 10? An advanced degree and a nice salary certainly helps. Personality is always good. I would date an ugly funny guy. But only if he is smart and rich and has a big d!ck. 🙂
    My recent post OMG

  4. I don't go in for that "league" business. I've seen a lot of conventionally attractive women that STAY single. Some people get intimidated by them. Some of them just don't get along with people that well. Hell, I checked out online dating for a hot minute, and would see beautiful women on there. I'm not talking about just visiting. I mean, you could see how often they would log on. I'd make a move, and that behavior eventually extended offline.

    The way I see it, someone had to be with the Appolonia Kotero (circa 1983) lookalike nursing a Cosmopolitan. It may as well have been me.

    Mind you, this was more the case when I was younger. Now, I'm more likely to see if a woman has a book in her hand or if I can have a good conversation with her.

    One more thing, and this is important, so take notes. See that fine sista/brotha that you're looking, but not looking at? Chances are somewhere, there's someone that's sick of their schit. We all have flaws. You should put no one on a pedestal and you shouldn't look down on anyone. Date as your heart and/or loins desire.

  5. Because of self esteem issues I can honestly say I have ALWAYS went for the guy that would consider me out of his league. NOW that self esteem is no longer a big issue and I exude a slightly large quantity of confidence when I walk I’m finding it easier to approach men who are of a better quality. Its funny though (not really) because I guess I’m so use to sending myself after the no good guy that I find my self still doing it accidentally smh. I’m actually going to force myself to approach men who I never would have attempted in the past so I can get use to it. I’m still a little shy but I’m out going enough to go for it. I can honestly say I have never approached a man that would be considered really good looking. My friends use to joke and say that I was conceited and just wanted to make sure without a shadow of a doubt that I was the cute one in the relationship but I know it was because I didnt see I was good enough to approach that guy everybody wants.

    1. I actually just commend the both of you for being able to approach guys first at all. I'm told men find that sexy. I'm definitely too shy for that. Its definitely on my Year of 25 bucket list though. LoL

    2. Totally agree. And same thing here. I think it was a confidence thing cause guys that would think I was so "out of their league" would do so much to be with me. And I have this whole thing about needing someone to need me more than I need them which is a whole other topic and a number of childhood neglect issues that I won't even begin to go into. (laughing at myself) But yeah I finally had to face the facts about my choices.

    3. Somewhere in some study they said that if the woman is more good looking than the man, the marriage lasts longer & maybe both parties are likely to be happy…

  6. I don't think that I've ever really been attracted to a guy who I felt was way out of my league, thus taking him out of the game completely. It doesn't really have too much to do with my abilities to catch someone out of my league I just think that if they were evaluated holistically then they would no longer be out of my league. I feel like I am a pretty complete package for my age so I would say that I'm kinda high up there and I just haven't met anyone that I felt had it more together as far as personality, looks, family(because that is important to me), intellect and social/cultural capital. I'm not saying a guy that is out of my league and that I'm actually attracted to doesn't exist but I just haven't ever seen one in real life.

    I think that a guy can overcome the chasm by having a good sense of style, being very cultured and having a passion for something that interests me. I like well dressed men who know something about the world and can teach me or expose me to new things. If you can do that then looks can be over looked (to some extent).
    My recent post SAMO

    1. so I just read this comment over…damn I sound really bougie and cocky, I don't think I'm as bad as I made myself look here :/
      My recent post SAMO

      1. Nothing wrong with it Kriola… I read it wishing I could be more like that! lol!

        "In America, they want you to accomplish these great feats, to pull off these David Copperfield-type stunts. You want me to be great, but you don't ever want me to say I'm great?" Kanye

    2. You know what's funny? Kri not bougie. Kri just pretty. You can tell when a woman is pretty and has a cool personality. They always don't get conversations like this, they like, "People out my league? Nah, never happens to me." It's a sign of self-esteem and beauty. I feel the same way myself. I remember I seen Vanessa Simmons out one time, mad dudes was pointing and talking amongst themselves. I was like, "Move ima go say something." I went over there, hollered, and even asked her to buy me a drink with that Russell money. It worked, spent like two hours chilling with her. Lot of dudes would have thought they had no chance, not me though.

      (PS – Fully aware that people think Angela is cuter, this ain't bout that, she wasn't in the club.)

        1. I don't think either one of those chicks is sucking a ninja off proper, plus they got no @ss. Plus Bow Wow hit one.. I don't want Bow Wow's left over's.

          Look at those eyes, look at those cheeks. You know you effing Rev Run!
          *insert that annoying thing he does with his voice to make peopel feel stupid**

          But props to the Doctor for not being scary.

        2. On a serious note, I would straight up make Vanessa my wife. lol. She is like a 9 before she opens her mouth.

      1. You’re an only child right Dr. J?? Because now that I think of it, I’ve only met one only child with self esteem issues…I think its one of the perks lol. But I seriously get called bougie all the time, this weekend it happened twice in two blocks, but I tend to brush it off, I know that I’m not THAT bougie and if people think that having high self esteem is a turn off then I don’t wan them anyway.

  7. Never have I considered someone out of my league, because most of the women I have wanted and/or pursued I've had them. I believe I have something to offer any woman, therefore I'm in everyones league. However, I have been disappointed or over-anticipating of a partner whom a believed to be something but turned out to be less than that perception. But I do not need a perfect 10 or perfection, I just need my complement. My 8+2=10 or 5+5=10, we can be perfect together.
    My recent post Somebody's Baby: The Cougar Crusher

  8. Its one thing for an outsider to say that someone is out of your league. But thats not cool to feel that way yourself. That reeks of low self-esteem. Just because someone is cuter/smarter/more successful/etc than you doesn't mean you aren't deserving of their love and affection.

    If anything i'd say me and someone else may not be compatible before i say they are out of my league.

    Guess you could argue that all of what i just said is semantics/nuance lol
    My recent post This is a Public Service Announcement

  9. it wasn't the best movie..but it is way more style than some of the black comedies i find myself not laughing at. I support anything from the 'knocked up' crew.

    as a member of the "will never be mistaken for a sex symbol club" I can say the key to jumping the chasm is being yourself and letting the bad ones come to you. You won't have your pick of the liter, but you will end up with something nice and won't waste your time buying drinks for ladies only to have them bring them to the guys they came with Think man, what kind of 110 lb woman in a mini- dress drinks yuelings at a happy hour?.

    As a man, you do really control your own ratings. There is only so much a girl can do about her breast, face, real hair, her but. However, guys we are judge on our jobs, our conversations, our clothes, our jobs, our cas,our status within a group, our humor, and our jobs… Its not hard to find a gold digger and pay your way across the chasm. i would just feel horrible doing it. Don't get me wrong though, pretty in the face is still the quickest way to the draws.

  10. I've never really considered anyone out of my league…because I have dated some fine brotha's..and I have also dated brotha's who other people would probably consider just okay looking…and I never really cared what other's thought about my guys…I had a friend tell me straight up she thought my SO was ugly…after our relationship ended, of course….and I just laughed..because she didn't know how good this brotha really had it going on…and if you think my man is not cute..maybe, you will stay out of his face..so that works for me. lol.

    Also, I think we all know that all that glitters isn't gold..look at Halle Berry..she can't keep a man to save her life..but, all of the dudes she dates are very nice looking..perhaps she could benefit from dating someone a little less out of her league, if you will….someone just average in looks and not all of these "Ladies Men" type of fellas…..but, it still may not work because it seems Halle in spite of her beauty may be just to difficult to deal with……

  11. I believe the concept is based on personal perception more than anything, although others' perception does count for something as well. For example, I once dated a guy who only half-jokingly refers to himself "drop dead ugly". He's not that bad, but I certainly wasn't attracted to him based on looks. Now, pardon the stereotype, but he was older (not old) and certainly financially well-off. To people seeing us walk down the street, I was out of his league. To me, he was out of mine; this, because I was merely a University student and he was already professionally well-established, and is also very intelligent. I was self-conscious at a point because, as mature as I am or was, there was no way I could match his intellect or scratch the surface of his knowledge base. We were unevenly matched across the board, but who had the upper hand depended on who was inquiring.

    I define one's league as a general mixture of looks, intelligence, and station in life. (lol Random aside, "Marvin's Room just started playing on my Jango station). I don't necessarily go up and down trying to determine who's in or out of my league, though. That said, I do have a sense of being out of some people's league when they approach or try to get with me beyond a certain level. You've got a HS diploma with a dead-end job (or none at all), and literacy is not your strong suit? Yeah, that-a-way.

  12. i thought it was a cool movie. don't necessarily remember it coming out in the movies but i caught it on hbo this summer.

    when i consider someone to be out of someone else's league i don't only think about physical features although that is a large part of it. other factors include station in life, income, intelligence and overall personality. not to sound cocky or anything but with that said i don't think i've ever dated or will date outside of my league. call it what you want but i have that much confidence in myself.

    oh and that conversation in the movie was hilarious. funny how the type of car a man drives can deduct from his total value. i wonder what that says about me now that i don't have a car and i take public transportation everywhere.
    My recent post Celibacy Blues

    1. Hmmm the car thing involves a few factors for me, if you are in school then I'm not really trippin that you don't have a car. If you live in NYC then I can understand why you don't have a car, if you live in the Bay (or any city with pretty good public transportation and a subway/rapid transit system) you don't have to have a car but I'm gonna need you to get a zip car membership. If you live in Atlanta tho you need a car because MARTA doesn't go anywhere and it stops running hella early.
      My recent post SAMO

    2. "when i consider someone to be out of someone else's league i don't only think about physical features although that is a large part of it. other factors include station in life, income, intelligence and overall personality."

      I agree!!!

  13. I think my husband is out of my league (shh don't tell him!). But it depends on who you ask because way, way back in the day, one of my best guy friends told me I could do better. *shrugs*

      1. LOL When I told my hubby about it, he said the same thing but I really don't think so. He was a great guy friend but once upon a time he could've had a chance with me but he didn't want me so…. I don't think that's what it was.

  14. First of all, I find it interesting to find that there is a subtle "in-thing" to put men in terms of numbers… Apparent misandry… Going on…

    I don't see myself as in a league since I don't see myself at times as truly in the human species, so I don't look for a woman out of my league. I look for a woman on my level with a similar drive to connect with and to. (shrug) Is that too much to ask for?

    To attempt to interact with a new female with expectations derived from experiences of "the past" is asinine to say the least. I find it disturbing if I was waiting for the shoe to drop instead of waiting to exhale. F*ck… Either connection occurs, or it doesn't…

    What are my thoughts on the movie character’s conversation highlighted above? (smile) I resist misandry (of ANY kind) through apparent misogyny… (smile) "…Call it the art of fighting without fighting…"

    #Da Vocal Ex-Simp

      1. Between you & @SL, y'all both went over my head…

        I have come to terms with the way the world & women work… @SL still have some work to do… I can't co-sign I will be like this in 10 years nor will I call this my "older more mature self"…

        Just take the shotgun, raise the barrel to my eyes, just pull the trigger… smh

      2. (smile) It's true that I feel Adonis on a LOT of things he says, but I'm not an older version of Adonis… (smile FAR more deviously) Apparenlty, I'm an Adonis of an alternate universe…where male symbiotic organisms feast off the hatred of females and spit it back with acid, coldness, and venom…
        My recent post She’s Out Of My League

    1. @Symbiotic you are definitely an interesting commenter. Where did you see any misandry and/or misogyny in the above convo? Just curious…

        1. Ummm…you do realize this is a conversation between a group of all men right…? So are you saying all these men are playing to the typical feminine view of men as inferior, and they hate themselves??
          I def didn't get chick flick from this…

  15. What league? Lol. Is this another form of classism?

    Is my league a man with the exact same station in life? Well in that case, I have always dated "outside my league.” As the saying goes, I have always dressed for the career I want to achieve not the one I work in currently. The things I value in a man cannot be calculated in stuff and numbers. I understand that gains come with a person that has his priorities in order.

    I have always been told I could do better…and yes, I have heard that lately. However, it is rarely without hate mixed in it from another dude that is trying to get in or a girl that is obviously jealous.

    A man whom others consider a 'five' just need to have his priorities in order (God 1st) and confidence and he should be able to play in any league. On the other hand, maybe I'm just not that hard to please.

  16. I c/s Beef Bacon on this one.

    What league? What goes into catergorizing folk? I think I'm pretty dope and all…but I don't know where I would fall, so I [email protected] sure can't say where someone else would fall.

    I know what I look for in a man, and if man fits that description then he's in MY league. I honestly don't care what my friends think.

        1. It is that; in addition to your personality (as far as I know). Plus your taste and the fact that you work with the kids. And Wu-Tang is for the children. And I am a Wu-disciple.

        2. I'm glad I am not the only one who thinks that women who work with kids are hot. I like women with civil careers. Doctors, Teachers, Social Workers.

          I would eff the ish out of a girl who worked for Unicef.

  17. There's this documentary called "Science of Sex Appeal" that breaks down human attraction and discuss the league issue. I suggest everybody check it on Netflix/youtube. It's interesting as it discuss how a reflection of ourselves is caught in the people that we choose to go after.

    Personally, I consider myself a 10, and then I work down from there. Confidence is the key, and the more you are comfortable with yourself. The more people will gravitate towards you.

    1. I watched that same documentary and it was interesting. I liked that part that you're talking about here. They put the numbers on people's heads and all that. Sounds like a fun experiment. I also liked the part where they were analyzing the women's walking patterns and when they talked about women becoming more attractive when they're ovulating. Good stuff! Yay Netflix!

      1. I saw this too. It WAS interesting that women are deemed sexier when ovulating…that was cool. Was that the same documentary that spoke of body scents repelling and attracting people?

        1. Yep! I remember that part too. Sweaty shirts in jars though? LOL another fun experiment. Wasn’t it when the dudes shared their same dna, dads and bros, their scent repulsed them? I think that’s what it was. Did you guys watch the nova documentary about dreams? I loved that too.

        2. We are such nerds huh? Yes it was that one, they said that's how we could tell who our relatives were back in the day. I have not seen the one about dreams…I will look it up and check it out though…

  18. Honestly, don't even really factor in who's in my league or out of my league. Which may be a problem in the long run. I'm more of a "chemistry" type person, doesnt really matter where you are at in life, if I feel like we have chemistry then I'm open to seeing where it goes.
    In the past I will admit to dating "downward" more often then not, I think its just a little bit easier to date someone that you're not really 100% into, so if something happens, you can always say "well I didnt like him THAT much anyways"…kind of childish, I know.

    My recent post MsFemmeFatale82: Good Morning 🙂

  19. I watched a better movie, The 40 Year Old Virgin, and that movie taught me not to put the yssup on a pedestal. Some of the baddest chicks are the easiest, simply because ninjas be too shook to approach them. I think i’d be more reluctant to holla at someone who is much more successful than i am than the baddest chick at the club who aint paid for a drink in 2 years. Its all about having confidence in yourself and being persistant to what you want. Even Laura eventually gave Urkel the draws.

    1. Its all about having confidence in yourself and being persistant to what you want. Even Laura eventually gave Urkel the draws.

      That was definitely the greatest example ever of persistence coming to fruition.

  20. I stopped dating a guy cuz I believed he was out of my league. Of course it wasn't the only reason, but I was insecure and was afraid of falling for someone who was looking for someone better. It says a lot about a girl who'd leave a guy alone in fear of being replaced by someone I can't compete with. Not good, Keona.

    1. I've had girls look at me like they're out of my league (flattering at first then extremely annoying). Therefore they always presumed i was gonna leave them for someone "better". And even now, i'm sure they telling they homegirls that i wanted someone with a degree, a size 3 or someone childless (shots,shots and shots fired)
      My recent post ItzTrizz617: Eddie Murphy can't possibly be as bad an Oscars host as John Stewart was…but fuck the Oscars anyway

      1. Well I have two degrees, no kids, and I'm not a 10 but I'm attractive. But the chicks I knew he associated with already owned houses & businesses….I'm not that ambitious. It's gonna take me some time to get there. And some of these women were gorgeous. But that's my fault, I lost out. Ah well.

  21. I do believe there are leagues and if you don't believe it your buggin. I've known men that consistently fight above their weight class. They lose a lot but they are willing to take 100 L's if it gets them a woman that's an 8-10. I've dated outside my league before and to be honest I prefer women in my league. Not under or over. Dating above your weight class will have dudes saying "what are you doing with her?" "I wouldn't think she would be with someone like you", or "I wouldn't think you can get something like that". I'm an average guy and I know that and I'm content with that. I know my limits and my lane so I stick within them. I prefer average women b/c they are usually down to earth and haven't had n****s gassing their head since they were 13 years old. I don't care what people say a woman that constantly gets approached by men will internalize that somehow.

    1. I disagree, I think that if you have high self esteem and have always seen yourself as an intelligent beautiful individual then nothing anyone can say (positive or negative) will inflate or lower your perception of yourself. I am approached by men pretty often but it doesn't affect me too much because everyday I walk out of my house knowing who I am. However, I think that humility is a good quality to have so I will never let people "gas me up" nor will I look down on others for superficial reasons.
      My recent post SAMO

      1. I see what you're saying but I side more with Humble_One. If you take two babies and tell one everyday how ugly they are and the other how beautiful they are, while this is an extreme example, at some point they are going to internalize what you've told them, especially if they've been hearing it for a number of years.

        Most pretty women dont know what it's like to be ugly. They just assume they would act and think the same way even if they were ugly but there is no real way of knowing. It's sort of like how people born into wealth cant relate to poor people because in their mind they would never allow themselves to be rich. They negate the fact that they were born into wealth and therefore were afforded a different lifestyle from the very beginning.

        Not saying you cant be humble or a well rounded person; however, assuming you've been one way your entire life – and perceived by others that way as well – you really cant say for sure thay you'd be the same person if you had the exact opposite experiences all your life.

        1. yes what you are saying is true but he is saying that he prefers avg women because above avg women aren't down to earth because they are constantly getting compliments and/or attention. I don't think that that holds true across the board. Just because I've been told I was pretty my whole life doesn't mean that I'm a b!tch and just because you aren't that pretty doesn't mean that you are down to earth.

          Yes when you are growing up those things affect you but at a certain point, if you have high self esteem, outside opinions have little influence on the way you see yourself so positive or negative feed back shouldn't change your actions and/or your personality.
          My recent post SAMO

      2. Gonna side with the ladies here. These days most women are likely getting approached daily, or at least weekly, or with some amount of frequency. It's definitely not only the "10's." That's just how it is. I don't think every woman that gets approached gets gassed off of just that. That would be like 85% of all women walkin around here with big heads! LoL

        I'm also from the humility will get you further school of thought though…

        1. " That would be like 85% of all women walkin around here with big heads"

          They do! Well, maybe not 85%, but certainly the majority think they're hotter than the equator. Sometimes it's a good thing for them, other times it defeats the purpose by giving them the opposite result of the result they were looking for.

          " I'm also from the humility will get you further school of thought though…"

          Not if you're a guy. As a guy cockiness is more helpful than humility. We only need a touch of humility or else ppl will assume we rank low on these artificial hierarchies that humans have created.

    2. "I don't care what people say a woman that constantly gets approached by men will internalize that somehow." Maybe but not automatically. I get approached it seems like daily honestly for whatever reason — cool job, cool person, nice smile, cute in the face, s#x appeal, great conversation….etc….. However, that has only made me MORE picky. I say hi, smile, flash the ring or say something slick about my husband and keep it moving. I don't know what's considered average to you either…that another one of those words that I don't use to describe people…so idk.

      I was taught that we are all only human at the end of every day. Even if a person has money or whatever they deem 'above average" they still stand, sleep, walk, sh!t and eat like the rest of the world.

  22. I remembered when it came out in theaters, but never saw it until I happened upon it on HBO one night a few months ago, with no intention of watching it, but ended up staying up to finish it…it was a lot better then I had expected.

    I think it's nice and all the confidence people have that believe that no one is out of their proverbial "league" so to speak. However, in all honestly, you may think you're not out of someone's league, but that's not for you to decide….it's the person's who's league it is that determines that for them. Same for you and your league. I'm sure everyone has had someone try to step to them confidently thinking they have a chance, but deep down inside you know you wouldn't give this person the time of day for XYZ reasons.

  23. Think about it…keeping the analogy of "Leagues" going, the NBA (or 'the League) has a draft every year in June. 2 rounds, 30 teams, therefore a total of 60 draft positions. Do you know how many aspiring ballers THINK they can play in the League and are super confident in that belief that they will get drafted? My whole point is you can be just as talented than the next person, but there is someone that's always going to be more talented unless your name is Kobe Bryant …and truth of the matter is that you'll be "good enough" for some leagues, such as the NBDL or Euro leagues, but not for others, such as the NBA. Not saying you can't work your way up, but it is what it is.

    So you may step to the NBA and confidently say I know I can play in your league….any maybe you can….but if the NBA don't draft you, guess what….you're out of it's League….literally and figuratively, speaking.

    1. Off-Topic: At no point during Kobe Bryant's career was he the undisputed greatest player in the league. Not talking about resume. I mean on a year to year basis.

      1. what's the point of having a better year if you aren't going to win a ring and the next year you fall of the face of the earth?

        Kobe always had a top 5 Win Share in the the league. Despite the fact that the other players that finished ahead of him had less wins.

      2. Actually, he's the undisputed greatest player in the league right now. You mean "best" player in the league. Nobody has the trophies, chips and decorated career that Kobe has right now in the NBA.

        And to speak to your other point, nobody will tell you that Steve Nash was actually the best player when he was winning all those MVPs, it was Kobe. But that wasn't good for the image of the NBA. You need to go head.

        1. Kobe has a better resume than everyone in the league. "Best" is the better word though. Kobe wasn't the best player in the 04-05 season or the 05-06 either. From 2003-present the best player in the NBA has been Lebron James. Eh, Tim Duncan's career is just as decorated as Kobe's except Duncan is boring and was actually the best player on his team when he was titles as opposed to Kobe play sidekick to Shaq.God knows where Kevin Garnett's career would have been if he didn't waste his time being loyal to the Timberwolves.

        2. "From 2003-present the best player in the NBA has been Lebron James"

          Really? LeBron was the best player in the NBA his ROOKIE year (2003)??

          SMH *credibility shot* You need more people, homie. Sorry.

        3. to his defense….

          Kobe wasn't the best player in the league that year either.

          KG had the highest Win Share. He was like second or third to AI.

  24. I think leagues exist. Most definitely. Maybe it happens more on then mans side than the woman's. In general I think we like to rate things. We rate the all time greatest rappers, athletes, actors, movies etc… etc… etc. I think it's important that women understand this about men – because we rate you too. When you're interested in a long term relationship you definitely look at the total package, and while you may not assign a number to someone you care about, deep down inside, you know what that number would be were you to assign her a number. You also know that if that hypothetical number was -X, the relationship would probably have never happened. It's just in our nature.

    Understanding this is important also because you need to know that you're competing. 90% of women will tell you they're not into competing with other chicks – the other 10% of women are winning. They're winning because the are either actively competing or they're so universally awesome that they don't have to compete. I made those #'s up to prove a point, so they may be completely off but the point remains nonetheless lol. We compare you to each other. It's just part of our process, just like you all compare us to every one else. You don't want the doujha dude out the crew that always gets sonned. You want the boss.

    Men know this already. We know we're actively competing with each other. Your boy who graduated at the same time, with the same degree and got the same position at another firm gets a promotion before you. Better believe you're showing up to work early every day for the next 6 months. 1 dude out the crew cops a new V – by the end of the year, errbody has a new v. Next dude buys some investment property – yeah… you get the picture.

    I say all that to say: leagues are real and accepting this fact of the dating life is much better than pretending it doesn't exist.
    My recent post That Certain Something “Watch The Throne” is Missing

    1. Co-sign. Let me add, competition isn't always the worst thing. It makes you better. Matt Dodge was terrible last year when Reese just handed him the starting job. They bring in a veteran to compete with him this year and he looked great before they cut him b/c fans can't get over the eagle game. Same goes with men, you gotta use your man as context with your life. I thought I was the ish when I made anaylst. Than four months ago, my man made First Ass to the VP. Of course I am happy for him, but I need that check too. Not his check, that is jealously. There is a difference. So its not insecure to notice that your girl gets more love in the club than you. Its called realism.

      1. Its not people don’t know leagues exist its just sometimes they’re to concert. Like if your not a 10 then you don’t count. 0r I hear a lot of people say “girls out here acting like 10’s when their 5’s”. I just think leagues lead people to feel like someone is above them or on a pedestal especially for women in the beauty department. I feel like people think if you don’t fall into a high league(10) then you just take what you can get.

        1. The thing I think everybody forgets is that men, or at least – the men I know – will always rate women we're interested in spending our lives with based on the whole package – not just looks. If you're a solid 7 in the looks department and you know that – be 10 in every other way you can control. Accentuate the positive. As men, we all know where we fall short so we accept that and keep it pushing. Yall women get too hung up and hindered by your perceived faults.
          My recent post That Certain Something “Watch The Throne” is Missing

        2. Most raises an interesting point, which I may expand on in an entire blog down the road. Women tend to assume that men analyze them the same way they analzye themselves and others and this is incorrect. Most men start at looks then assess what's inside "the package." In fact, if the wrapping isnt pretty some men dont even care what's inside. This isnt right or wrong or mature versus immature, granted I believe one viewpoint is more sound than the other but that's my opinion. What matters is men think differently. I get the impression that if a man doesnt think how women think (on certain issues, like this one for example) then they automatically assign a negative descriptive to him. "Oh, he's just immature."

          Not really. He knows what he wants. If anything, while it may be superficial, knowing what you want is a very mature quality.

    2. Are you and your wife in the same league Most? I believe my husband is out of mine. I’m curious to know if he feels the same way but I’m too afraid to ask.

        1. He's the complete package and I'm still trying to get to his level. I feel like I'm lagging behind because he's pretty much set in his career. Also, he's really comfortable with himself, no self doubt whatsoever. I'm over here still trying to "find myself."

        2. That's pretty interesting…i had that phase when i judged myself based on my career accomplishments and earning power as well(still do it sometimes), but I think that's more of you evaluating yourself; we all have different growth rates so I doubt that not being on the same level (yet) diminishes your rank in the 'league' Drive/ambition count.
          My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

      1. Absolutely – we're in the same league.

        That's interesting you think your husbands out of your league. What makes you think that?

        1. It seems like he's gone on and grown up without me. He's got a bachelor's in accounting and his MBA. Meanwhile, I'm sitting here with no degrees yet. Last time I worked, he was making more than three times as much as me. I was working a little temp job where I felt very disposable while he is working a job where two departments were basically fighting over him. He's been working for the DOD for almost six years now. He's always been business minded, been working since he was twelve. I feel like I'm still trying to find my footing and grow up. And dude has like no self doubt. Maybe I should just stop comparing myself to him. He's an old soul and clearly, I'm not.

        2. "Meanwhile, I'm sitting here with no degrees yet."

          But didn't you say I forgot whether it was here or another blogsite that this is the path you chose, you chose to put off your career so you can be a good wife and mother? If this is something you wanted and your husband agreed, I can't even fathom the idea of him or you feeling HE is out of your league now, so why even put yourself through that torment of even trying to ask him?

          You two are a TEAM.

        3. Men & women are held to different standards… And from a community standpoint, that is a good thing… It plays to our natural drives & biological imperatives….

          But I also have no problem for those who fit outside of that paradigm… I just think alot of women people are trying to pit themselves headfirst against their biology & are failing miserably

        4. @48

          Take a walk with me.

          As a dude recently put it to me,

          "There are very few sluts out there in the world"

          meaning that are very few women that like sleeping with a whole bunch a guys, and they are content with there lifestyle, & they can sleep around like a man without it taking a psychological toll on their brain… Kinda like the 60 year old woman still putting on fishnet to go out a snag a dude (or three)… Those are rare women…

          Most women, I believe want to find a dominant man to (wait, a dirty word is coming up) submit
          to… & sleep with him over & over again…

          So when I say "….are trying to pit themselves headfirst against their biology… " I am under the premise that most women are naturally submissive, and want to relinquish control to a dominant man…

          I see the whole "strong & independent" theme (that I personally love to exploit) as one big defense mechanism…

          SSTTE

        5. Got it. Thanks.

          "I see the whole "strong & independent" theme (that I personally love to exploit) as one big defense mechanism… "

          You're right on all points except for the above – and I get that you're generalizing so I'll leave it be…:)
          My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

        6. I understand 48…

          But

          1. I find it that alot of (I say MOST) women are not happy under that S&I paradigm… & I call it a defense mechanism driven by fear because, women avoid men with their shit together, because they know that they have to come correct…

          I don't want to go down that rabbit hole either… So I will leave it at that…

        7. G6 the intention was just not to pursue that dream but still have a career. I think I worded it wrong last time I spoke about it. May have confused poor Linc.

  25. Yeah …….. I don't get it. What's the harm in going after what you want – 2 things can happen you get a yes or a no and we've all heard both.
    I don't think I've ever thought of myself in terms of league since men 9 times out of 10 approach the only time I have to say anything is to let them know its ok I'm available for the approach.
    I don't know!

  26. Stainer was about the only thing that made that movie enjoyable. Dude was hilarious. But anywho, when I was younger, I used to think my first boyfriend was so far out of my league. He was definitely fahn and everybody wanted him, and I used to think, "I'm so lucky he chose me." But then again, that was pretty much his only good quality, ha. I will say this: He truly made me more confident than I ever had been. My self esteem was NOT where it should have been. He made me realize that I actually WAS attractive, and a myriad of other things that I wouldn't let myself believe. They say you're your own worst critic.
    When you exude confidence, you absolutely do look better. Now I'm not shocked when I pull a fahn man, lol. I still sometimes struggle with self esteem issues, but I'm always working on that. So at this point, I have yet to meet anyone out of my league. How can a 5 pull that 10?? Money, personality, education, and polish. By polish I mean making the most of what he/she has. Well dressed/clean haircut/etc, etc….

  27. I have only dated one guy in my life that I felt was SUPER fine and gorgeous like he might just be out of my league. I sweated him sooooo hard, fawned over him and swooned daily (I'll be honest, I STILL swoon when I see him). Its been awhile though. Because I don't have a set type it just waivers but…not really an out of leaguer. its not something I think about really… I'll just stop there. this is based solely on looks, btw.

  28. First of all, I'm kinda old school. I don't believe in chasing men…at. all. If there's an opening with an attractive man and we seem to hit it off, I will smile and throw on my charm. But, I'm not asking for a number, a date…nothing. If he doesn't make a move, oh well. It wasn't meant to be.

    Having said that, "leagues" don't matter to me. I determine whether or not I'm feeling who's interested in me and then I go from there (give it a shot or keep it moving). The men that approach me and capture my attention tend to be men on the rise…actively in school…degreed and working on a career shift…which I'm moving towards myself (a career shift). This can be annoying. It'd be nice to date a guy who's "there"…but I'm not, lol. So, I guess I can't complain but so much. They tend to be singers, musicians, writers, and tech buffs…all areas I live in. So, I guess I date in my comfort zone.

  29. Every man I've ever been involved with has been out of my league. Some were wildly above my station and I should have never have gone there, some were just a few steps ahead of me. Whatever rung of the ladder they're on, I feel like a man has to be at least a little out of my league to sustain my interest.

    The thing with women messing with men who are out of their leagues is that you can't let him know that you know he's out of his league. You can't be grovelling and fawning and acting like a doormat because he will run rings around you. You have to act like you're the one who is out of his league. Not that we can ever pull this off.

    As far as dealing with men who fall short of my league, I don't bother. Because how they should be looking to bridge the chasm is through exemplary behaviour. If you're a bit beneath me in looks, or career advancement, or social standing that's okay as long as you treat me well. But what men on lower rungs of the ladder do instead is try to drag a woman down so that he ends up the one on top and she's the one working to keep up with him. I'd rather just skip it altogether.

    1. "I feel like a man has to be at least a little out of my league to sustain my interest. "
      ^^THIS. I know this seems to contradict what I said earlier, but I totally agree that you can't let them know they are out of your league. I do this by "trying" to either match or even exceed their level of confidence. I hate to play these games in a relationship, but it's so hard not to take advantage of someone when you KNOW they would let you. I can't be that fawning chick.

    2. "The thing with women messing with men who are out of their leagues is that you can't let him know that you know he's out of his league. You can't be grovelling and fawning and acting like a doormat because he will run rings around you."

      This is very true. I think the same goes for pretty women. I treat'm well but c I also ant have her thinkin she's doing me a favor by being with me….F that.

    3. oh Max! Ur so awesome 🙂

      "The thing with women messing with men who are out of their leagues is that you can't let him know that you know he's out of his league. "

      Me all day..I try so hard cuz guys think Im like Miss Kriola when we first meet but Im actually a dork/goof ball! lol (urkel laugh/snort)

  30. I don’t know why, but just thinking about someone that’s “out of your league” leaves me with the idea of crushes. Like its that person that you have a secret burning desire for, but yet you don’t think you’re worthy of them. I know that I’ve dated guys who thought I was out of their league and personally that was the most frustrating ish I’ve ever went through. To date out of your league you have to have confidence and a high self esteem and know your self worth. Know that despite what it may look like, you are providing something that is needed to that person. You’re adding more to their life and you are not a charity case or a phase. Even though leagues exist, I never really feel that anyone is out of mine. My mother told me no is better than the next person. They may be better off and have different advantages over the next man/woman, but ultimately no one is better. I always keep that in mind and it helps me to constantly realize that despite what is displayed on the outside;beauty, the facades and especially the classisms that exist, we are all human. A perfect example of that was this dude who I thought was the finest thing in all of America. He was tall, Puerto Rican/Black and had a quiet presence about him, had style and money..all that. I stayed stalking looking at him and finally decided one day to try to holler at him. So we get to talking and dude tells me straight out that he thinks I’m beautiful and nice and he’s been noticing me but he’s not who I think he is and I can do better. Of course I think he just played me nicely and kicked me to the curb, but less than a year later he got a slag pregnant and dropped out of school. Guess he was right.

  31. iight…

    Men can shoot high once he gets his money right & he become a more dominant & socially enlightened human being… The latter is always better than the former in 2011

    Women can shoot high in their sexual prime, give or take a little swag… Movin' On

    Now, I am of the opinion that whatever how many quality good women there are in the world, that is how many quality good men their are also… There is NO HUGE disparity there, regardless of what women want you to believe…

    But I can admit that as many physically beautiful women (women who are 8-10s in the beauty scale), there are not alot of attractive men (the type of men I have described above) to receive these women…

    So, these type of women have to do a cost benefit analysis… They have to choose between the jerks (who fulfill women psychologically and/or sexually) or choose a simp (someone who fulfills them usually financially) which now that women have their own, he is more & more less needed…

    That is where men have the advantage…

    SSTTE

    "It's Not Matrimony, It's Macaroni" -Kenny Redd

  32. so this post reminded me of the time I was out at a restaurant and the dude I was with wanted to figure out my type… so he asked me to grade the men around me. I couldn't give anyone higher than a 5 (even though some were attractive) because I didn't know them. The man who got the highest rating stopped everything he was doing to give this dog on the street some water. In my opinion when you're personality outshines your looks, that's when you increase your "rating".
    On the other hand, he kept giving women (who physically don't look like me) 7-8 scores… That's a whole other story…
    I'm the youngest of 5 with 2 GORGEOUS older sisters. They are simply stunning… and in comparison I'm average. I inherited the Amazonian features of our Cree ancestors and they inherited the more waif like, delicateness of our Blackfoot ancestors *shrugs*. But I would never rate myself lower than an 8, even on a bad day, because of a great personality that makes me more likeable. Those are things you can't capture in a picture or a post; you can only experience them in person.
    With all that being said, I've never been the shy one that won't approach what I want. I do wait in the background to see where his eyes fall and what has sparked his interest before making my move, but that's knowing your prey… I mean uhh… mark (lol). And if they say no I just shrug it off and say something funny to dispel the awkwardness of the situation. Then I rework my approach and try something different the next time.
    @WIM "There was a time in my life where I vowed only to (seriously) date women that were finer than the last woman I seriously dated." I think women make this vow too but not about physical attributes, more like "I vow to date someone more emotionally open" or "I vow to date someone more mature, ready for commitment"… But with the same results because you say to yourself if this new person shows any of the traits of the last one, I'm out.
    My recent post I’ve been loving you too long

    1. "I do wait in the background to see where his eyes fall and what has sparked his interest before making my move, but that's knowing your prey… I mean uhh… mark (lol). And if they say no I just shrug it off and say something funny to dispel the awkwardness of the situation. Then I rework my approach and try something different the next time."

      Girl you bold….. :o)

      I could never muster up the courage to do that.

  33. Here's a question: How do you figure out the differentials on a rating scale if the 2 scales don't coincide? Perhaps one scale relies on looks (predominantly) while the other is education/income/personality etc. I think the "rating scale" and the "chasm" don't necessarily exist. We all see the "how did he/she get him/her" couples out there… I wonder if it's because the value system (rating scales) didn't necessarily coincide and they were able to "find" each other this way. I think "finding" the "right one" is a result of the alignment of value systems and not necessarily the way we measure up beside each other… think "compliment each other" rather than "like-with-like"….
    Just a thought…

  34. so this post reminded me of the time I was out at a restaurant and the dude I was with wanted to figure out my type… so he asked me to grade the men around me. I couldn't give anyone higher than a 5 (even though some were attractive) because I didn't know them. The man that got the highest rating stopped everything he was doing to give this dog on the street some water. In my opinion when you're personality outshines your looks, that's when you increase your "rating".

  35. I started to say I don’t think in terms of leagues, but I guess I do in some kinda way – just never used that term, seems too ego driven for me. I’m very approachable and often get dudes that I just couldn’t see myself with.

    For example, I used to run into this guy in the grocery store almost weekly… he had a mouf full of gold, loud attire, peddled counterfeit products, etc. He would follow me thru the store & we would end up basically shopping together. After my initial shock (why do I keep running into this dude & no you can’t have my number) he actually could hold a decent convo. It didn’t change my overall opinion, but it was interesting. So, I do do it, just never used league.

    On the flip side, I don’t think any man is out of my league. I’m sure I’ve encountered men who thought that I was beneath them, but I wouldn’t know it. I can’t imagine some dude telling me that… I mean most people just make an assessment and keep it moving if there’s a “league” issue.

  36. It depends on what "out of your league" is. I take it as meaning someone who is better than you at any many things physically, financially, spiritually, emotionally, etc. And I think seeking that is a recipe for disaster. You need balance.

    You made another interesting point about wanting someone that others are jealous of. I think it's bad to think that upfront and have it as a goal. I think of it as a nice side benefit – if you really work hard to have a great relationship, people will notice. If you think about it too much it may stray into the main thing you are looking for from a woman, which can easily stray into materialistic territory.
    My recent post What Has Kept Me Interested in Tech?

  37. I judge myself to be a nine, because I am attractive, though not super skinny. I make good money, live on my own, cook and bake very well, come from a good family, am Ivy-League educated, I think I'm funny on occasion. I'm certainly not awkward, and I'm an emerging singer, with a passion for a lot of things, including travel and music and family and friends. Also, parents LOVE me and I respect dudes when they watch sports and even still through a Superbowl party every year, though none of my friends really care who's playing in it.

    Basically, all of that makes me a nine. Definitely wifey material, in my opinion. If I were a dude, I'd hit it and I wouldn't quit it.

    I have some hard & fast rules about guys:
    1.) They have to be employed
    2.) They have to have a place with or without roommates (not family members)
    3.) They cannot be addicted to any substances
    4.) They must be in this country legally
    5.) They can't have more than 1 kid and if they do, it can't be older than 10, because I'd like to start a family of my own and wouldn't want too much of an age disparity or a bunch of people wondering how I'm the kid's mother.

    Beyond those things, I've often dated men who were LOWER than me as far as accomplishments, but were as attractive as I was or even a bit moreso. What can I say? I'm attracted to the physical aspect of men. But, as you can see above, my bare minimum requirements mean I'm not dating total bums or anything like that just for the sake of them being cute.

    On occasion, I've gone out with men who are at least as attractive as I am, or a bit less so, but are as accomplished as I am or slightly moreso. But those dudes often have a chip on their shoulder, and because they're so sought after in NYC, they're often playing several women at a time. They think they're too good to settle down, which is why I only deal with them on occasion, hoping to find the one dude that's more normal.

    I'd LOVE to find a dude that was my level of attractiveness, only SLIGHTLY more accomplished, within 4 years ABOVE my age that had his own place (sans roommates) with NO kids and an inclination to settle down. Also, supportive of my music career and interested enough in sports to enjoy my Superbowl parties.

    But we all settle a little, lol.

      1. You'd think not, but I meet a lot of guys in NYC that are apparently too intellectual to enjoy the playoffs in either basketball OR football.

        I know a lot of people who don't even celebrate holidays. Not even for religious reasons. Just because "Americans have become too driven by consuming." And, while I agree with that, I still get off my soapbox and make the egg nog come December. Lets be festive, folks! 🙂

  38. Interesting topic…

    I don't want to come off as pompous and bougie…… but since we keeping it superficial here today I will say this when I think of someone being out of his/her league I usually base it on someone's lifestyle just as well as looks.

    Since taking up residency at Single Wisteria Lane, Lot 2010, I have to say that I have yet to meet a man whereas I felt as if HE was out of my league (him dating down) cuties too!!– is that being Conceited? NO. I say it's Confidence plus I can hold my own.

    But I will say that I have no problem dating a dude who MAY NOT be in my league, (me dating down) because at the end of the day compatibility and having someone you vibe with on that level goes way beyond the material/superficial things afterawhile and besides men who see you as the prize tend to treat you as such.

  39. "Compatibility and having someone you vibe with on that level goes way beyond the material/superficial things"

    Pretty much. That's why I don't understand this debate on in league, out of league, minor league, major league, whatever. You can vibe with someone that's in a completely different experience than you. As a matter of fact, its quite pleasant when that happens.
    My recent post What Has Kept Me Interested in Tech?

  40. hmm this is an interesting topic. I probably don't get it because as many have stated, this is more common among men. I'm very shy so I've never really been one to think that I can snag any guy I want, but I don't believe in leagues. I deal more in preferences…whenever I like someone who doesn't feel the same way, I just take it that I'm not their type (esp personality-wise because my quirks are just very atypical). In the same manner when guys express interest, I choose based on connection/chemistry – a generally holistic approach.

    I think this whole thing really depends on how much you value external validation of your choices; I don't place much emphasis on other people's perceptions/opinions where my love-life is concerned.
    My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

  41. Fun post WIS. I'd say if we're just talking physical beauty, I definitely date primarily "outside of my league". I like nice things #Shrug. I'm not crazy picky physically, but since I'm overweight and most men I date are in great shape, it's sorta an automatic that they are "outta my league". I haven't dated a man that I felt "less than" though since college. IMnot soHO, I'm a pretty great catch, so overall I'd say I date within my league.

    The few comments I was able to read though are right about women not really having leagues though – I need to be attracted to a man, but it's pretty easy to attract me with your ability to father, your intelligence, your humor, etc if you're 8 pack has lost a ripple or two. No biggie. #SWIDT

    Oh, and my assessment matters, not everyone else's. Go ahead and think my man is ugly, no sweat off my back that you're blind.

    Below my league? HA! Never. Why?

  42. <DIV id=idc-comment-msg-div-190777147 class=idc-message><A class=idc-close title="Click to Close Message" href="javascript: IDC.ui.close_message(190777147)"><SPAN>Close Message</SPAN>
    Comment posted.
    <P class=idc-nomargin><A style="TEXT-DECORATION: none" class=idc-share-facebook href="http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php?u=http%3A%2F%2 Fwww.singleblackmale.org%2F2011%2F09%2F07%2Fshes-out-of-my-league%2F#IDComment190777147&t=I%20just%20commented%20on%20She%E2%80%99s%20Out%20Of%20My%20League" target=_new><SPAN class=idc-share-inner><SPAN>Share on Facebook</SPAN></SPAN> or <A href="javascript: IDC.ui.close_message(190777147)">Close MessageI remember someone telling me that everyone ends up with someone on their level. She said on the outside things might look uneven but trust, they are in the same league. Either you are OVERestimating one person or you are UNDERestimating the other. Could be that she is a dime on the outside but barely worth a penny in personality, or he is "interesting" in the fact and has better conversations than most men. In the end, those on the outside will never know (unless they date those people). So yeah, if the relationship is working they are on the same level.

  43. In my opinion we make the whole "league" thing a little more serious than it really is. We make it seem like it's deeper and more profound than than just looks when in reality, it is ONLY about looks. Otherwise, how do you determine that someone is out of your league when you haven't spent time with them? Had a conversation? Etc. The truth of the matter is, an average guy would consider a stunningly beautiful woman out of their league even if she doesn't bring anything else but physical looks to the table, i.e. education, career etc. On the other hand, an average looking woman that has everything else going for her would be considered within or beneath his league. Think about how all of us are rating people: he's a 5, 10, she's a 10, 8 etc. PURELY on looks. The point I'm making is, if you're not so hang up on physical beauty, then there really shouldn't be anyone out of your league. There's an old saying (don't judge me. I have an old soul) that the only way someone can look down on you is if YOU put them up there. If you think someone's out of your league, chances are they are.

    1. no, it doesn't take very long for me to figure out what people have going for them. Maybe you are asking the wrong questions. Yes initially its based on looks but it doesn't take very long to figure out what level they are on.
      My recent post SAMO

      1. I’m curious. Who would you consider out of your league Kriola? I don’t mean that personally. I mean, in general, if you had to decide if someone was out of your league, what would you base it on?

      2. "but it doesn't take very long to figure out what level they are on"

        No such thing as levels…just paths. I wouldn't say a teacher or a struggling artist are not on the same level as the investment banker who owns a vacation spot in Aspen. Same goes for women who choose to get work done/own tens of thousands in outfits in their closet in order to look a certain way versus women who prefer to be plain and less flamboyant. Each chose their path hence really no comparison aka levels.

        Essentially, 'leagues/levels' work well for only looks(and that is even under the assumption that nothing has been 'enhanced' hence providing a level playing field) and nothing else really.
        My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

    1. Because we are all human, we tend to make internal assessments regarding the value (sounds harsh, but my brain is half dead and I can't think of a more flowery concept) of those around us. One doesn't have to have low self esteem to realize that, as a crackhead junkie, one's chances of pulling a top executive at a lucrative firm are safely non-existent. Some people would call this B being out of A's league, while others would simply chalk it up to A being realistic. The league discussion often centres around semantics, but a lot of people end up expressing the same thing in different words. It's easy for you to say that no one is out of your personal league, but it's also a safe bet to make that there are people you wouldn't even consider on your worst day. You may call it something else, but you essentially feel as though you are out of their league.

      It's good to have a healthy esteem of oneself, but a lot of people with high self-esteem overestimate their value and what they deserve; this, whether it be the individual with a horrible attitude who expects a sweet and caring partner, or the high school diploma-less McDonald's temp janitor who claims that she'll entertain no less than a partner with 6 figure potential. I'm sure we all know at least one person who could do with some high dosage of reality. They tend to think they have nothing in particular they need to develop, as far as personal characteristics and other departments are concerned. I think I make a great partner, but at the same time I know of a few categories in which I may fall short and that I need to work on so that I will be a desirable option when my ideal man comes along. They fall under the category of general personal development, but I have to also look at them in terms of the kind of partner and relationship that I would like to have. Self-esteem needs to be tempered with objective observations, and essentially, reality.

      1. i think the only objection that you have to his statement is the 'low' part of his sentence.

        Whether low or high, self-esteem does have an impact on what you think you deserve, which invariably affects what you (get) in life.

        "we tend to make internal assessments regarding the value of those around us"

        Wouldn't you agree that the value you place on others is affected by the value you place on yourself? Also there's isn't a standard value system so we can assume that whatever you use is subjective and very much based on your perception(something that's also affected by how you feel about yourself with respect to your external environment) Ok now i'm just rambling, moving on 😀
        My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

        1. The "low" part of the sentence was its main point, so the objection is a significant one. I can't very well dispute the fact that we're all human.

          My condensed point is this: I do not have low self esteem, but I do recognize that I'm not indiscriminately at par with all individuals. Make no mistake about it, I'm neither intimidated by any perceived disparities nor inclined to thank my lucky stars that someone "out of my league" is gracing me with his attention. All it is, is taking into account the fact that the playing field is skewed. I do not walk around looking down on high school flunkies, for example, but the truth of the matter is that we are not even in the same ball game. What a lot of people sweep under the category of "preferences" speaks to the same idea, when broken down.

        2. I guess it really depends on what angle you're approaching it from. I see "out of my league" as an objective assessment of certain criteria on his end and mine. What he brings to the table vs. what I bring to the table. Where he is in life vs where I am. Yes, it's also subjective to a degree, but it's far from a situation whereby my eyes would glaze over if said "him" and I were to cross paths. Like I said, I don't necessarily go around thinking "he's out, he's out, he's in, he's NOWHERE CLOSE," but such things do happen on a subconscious level. So much for condensed, lol.

  44. Trust there are leagues,lanes what ever you want to call it and someone said it best that you need to pay close attention to them because you are always competing whether you like it or not.
    I think leagues refer for men based strongly on the looks department and for woman on status in life.
    To get a bad chick that everyone else thinks is bad feeds a man ego and if she too bad alot of folks will say dam how did you pull her. Hence out of your league.
    For a woman he can be not so attractive but be winning in other areas good job, advance degrees dresses well nice car, living alone the total package the proverbial great catch and if he is not so attractive there come back is always but he a great dude and he got his shat together. But if you pull him and you dont have your shat together other girls that do are wondering how did she get him the are not on the same playing field at all.Hence out of her league.

    1. I'd say be the best YOU! And take advantages of opportunities that present themselves.

      I felt some kind of way about this guy back in '08. Honestly, he was not my "type"…meaning, if I were to show you a picture of my dream guy, they'd look NOTHING alike, lol. But, this dude was A+ about his business. He is THE MAN in his respective areas/talents. He was brutally honest, lol. We'd known each other for a long time so we were beyond surface level conversation…friends…genuine care and concern there. He can DRESS HIS TAIL OFF! We have mutual interests. And, even though he wasn't a little dude, it was ALL MUSCLE! *swoons* He's a really good guy. And, at 27 yrs old (then), understanding whats more important in life and relationships, I saw all that was good and it turned that 4 or 5 into a 10…bump what anyone else said or thought. He looks FAB to me…cause he is FAB.

  45. Wow…I’ll be darned!! I’m kind of going through something like this. I’m currently in a relationship with a guy I wouldn’t normally go for Meaning he’s not drop dead gorgeous (I’ve actually had a friend tell me dead to my face she felt he wasn’t attractive…heifa)! Anyway, thinking back, I dated guys that I felt were very attractive and guys that would pass my bestfriends approval. Well as I’m getting older, leaving my age box of 25-29, I’m trying things different. I’m focusing on the way he treats me and my boo-thang is completely amazing!!! However I wouldn’t say he’s completely “out of my League”, it’s just his looks are….that’s bad huh?!

    1. Look at it this way….. He will feel as he hit the quick pick lotto jackpot and he'll treat you like a princess.

      You Good!!!!

    2. "However I wouldn’t say he’s completely “out of my League”, it’s just his looks are….that’s bad huh?!"

      LMBO! Personality has a way of blinding you…and that's a good thing. It should…

      For as long as his looks aren't bothersome to you, I think you're safe.

  46. I definitely believe there are leagues. With women they seem to be based more on looks, and men, on success/money. I swear this is like the basis of our society these days. Def not saying this is right, but it is what it is. That being said, there are glitches in the matrix everyday. There was only one time I dated a dude that I felt was out of my league, & that was based on the total package. Great personality, gorgeous, amazing job but still ambitious for more, sweet (at the time), intelligent, generous, etc.
    It was heaven for awhile. But dating someone out of your league becomes a burden. I got a migraine trying to get ready every time we were going to some event with his colleagues, or frat brothers, or something. And all the other associates, wives and girlfriends are scrutinizing you constantly. I'm just not into that type of attention. And of course the hugest issue of all, is that they just have way too much easy access to unscrupulous females… -_____-

    In the end, sure someone may be "out of your league" based on a comprehensive (or superficial) rating system, but that doesn't really mean much. I'm with Dr. J, shoot for the stars anyway.

  47. I never really consider a woman out of my league, but if I think shes super official, then I have to raise my level.

    I’ve seen women and had to boost my power level and get the gold glow in order to come correct. Thats just being on point. If I win, I win, if I lose, she lost.

    As far as “celebs” go, they are as normal as me and you, its just people know them through their work. I always say i have one foot in and out of the celeb circle, and many eyes. I can tell you that the aura doesnt phase me with them, so why should anything else?

  48. I like this post. It made me question my use of the statement and what I really mean when I say it. Usually it's a culture/class thing, i imagine certain royals are beyond my reach..
    More often its an excuse because im afraid of trying something different, or of rejection.

    A lot of the time you might think someone is out of your league just because someone else thinks so and you put them on a pedestal – when they're human like you. I'm definitely talking to myself right now..

  49. To answer your questions:
    1) I've never considered any guy to be "out of my league."
    2) Obviously, I determine whether someone is out of my league based on my own opinion because I've never felt that way. I'm not sure if any stranger has looked at me with a guy I dated and thought he was out of my league. I doubt it. Anyway, what do they know? He might have it all together from what they can see, but he might have an extra toe or a teeny peeny. I could totally be doing him a favor! It's never good to judge a book by its cover. Therefore, I could care less what a stranger or a friend thinks about the guy I'm dating.

  50. Am I considering myself to be a 10 by answering the "chasm question?" Oh well…I'll be that.
    In order for a 5 to get a 10, he has to be different and MUST exude confidence. Like the scenario Dr. J gave with Vanessa Simmons, he can't sweat her, so in essence he can't consider her out of his league. He should treat her like he would treat anyone else (hopefully, it's with respect). Being funny and charming also goes a loooong way. But, I think if he had all those qualities, he wouldn't be considered a 5, so I guess I'm saying that unless he has money, a guy that's a 5 will likely NOT pull a girl that's a 10 (that only happens in the movies), unless they got together when they were really young, before she realized she was in fact a 10. The number scale for women, I am assuming, is mostly based on looks (face, body, etc.), and nothing else.

  51. As it was once said to me when I was a young man, “Son, it’s hard to know when GOD will let you catch an angel flying low….” I had one and how do I know that she was truly out of my league… I’m thankful to GOD for allowing me to have such an angel in my life…

  52. This is all beautiful; however, the minute you begin to peel away the skin to a person's qualities, characteristics, personalities (meant to be plural), and true finances then many times that "perceived league" goes down to a "Little League". There are so many men I have dated who were charismatic or humorous, well-dressed and church-goers, yet after I found out who they really were…I had to state the famous line "This Aint That". To take it a step further, I would think the whole "maturity level" has alot to do with one's thought of another's perceived "League". I work within a financial institution; therefore, I don't automatically conclude #winning as a person who has money. Sometimes that can mean the lack of "League". I would rather have someone who has established success through his single most important asset…His Mind…So if a Tsunami hits our home, if Katrina takes away our investment land, or if a Tornado breaks us to the bones of our bank accounts…..I know that success with this man can be recreated because of his MIND! My point being…………I would love to be with a man and say to him (without sarcasm) I don't deserve a man like you. I would never want to step over something that is what I need (not what I want) because I have placed him in a certain category.

  53. Reading this I immediately thought about Sanaa Lathan and Wesley Snipes in Disappearing Acts. I think dating out of your league can bring positives and negatives depending on how each individual handles the situation. It can either be a bitter interaction with jealousies and insecurities or you can offer up the best you have to help each other grow. In this movie Snipes character elevated himself to be a better person in part due to his relationship.
    Th physical aspect is superficial – beauty fades and then what?

  54. What happen to liking someone for the "right reasons" ?? It's funny when people describe the characteristics and type of woman/man they want they always say stuff like: "someone who is kind, loving, sweet, good sense of humor, out-going, intelligent, considerate, personable, (and my favorite) God-Fearing". But I've seen folks meet people like that and never ever get with them seriously.
    I think as far as how "out of your league" is concerned it's defined by you (or it should be) but unfortunately we let family and or friends and colleagues define it for us.
    As we mature and grow so should our tastes in everything including the opposite sex.

  55. I much prefer guys who think I'm out of their league. They are always so appreciative and eager to please. I recently dated this guy who could have been an underwear model (his body was unbelievable!) but he knew it…and hardly ever said anything nice about my appearance. I am a pretty confident person-I don't need to hear how hot my bf thinks I am every five minutes…but telling me how nice you think my ass is makes me feel sexy and turns me on. A man who thinks I'm slightly out of his league is a hell of a lot more likely to do that.

  56. If you asked me personally, I go for guys who are out of my league. If you ask other people, I go for guys who are in my league or just below my league, so who knows. As long as you're happy with someone, and you think they're attractive, does it really matter what someone else thinks? And if it does, why? There must be some reason for your insecurity in your own decisions right? Where does that come from? I don't have that kind of insecurity. The only thing I'd care about was if my family thought he was a jerk.

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