Home Featured Yes, Chivalry is Really Dead!

Yes, Chivalry is Really Dead!

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FYI ... I really do love Feminists!

If your a woman … you might be mad right now. Just reading the title might have upset you.  You might have only come here to sound off in the comments … and you might not even read this.

Instead of all that anger … breathe … calm down a little … and hear me out.

I have a long standing hatred for chivalry in modern times.  But please, don’t think I am some blatant a**hole who walks around slamming doors in women faces and shoving girls out my way as I walk. I believe in treating people well because they are another human being. The concept that women are inherently weaker then men and constantly need our help … I just can’t co-sign that one.

Somehow, chivalry has become a banner for many women who want to simply pick the best characteristics of all the gender roles, shed off all the bad … and somehow claim that is is what my Dad wanted.  Basically … too many women are trying to have their cake and eat it too.  My problem with chivalry boil down to this:

Women, You cannot be independent, “I can do sh* by myself”, and “I don’t need a man” … and still expect for us to cater and pamper you!

It just doesn’t work …

See Also:  The Curious Case of the Subconsciously Apologetic Negro

In my opinion, chivalry was a system to “help” and “aid” the weak (women) by the strong (men).  And while this still applies to lifting boxes (I will carry the groceries of any woman I see), floor after floor of the glass ceiling are shattered on the daily. Women are no longer the helpless, “barefoot and pregnant”, can’t work outside the home folks they were for hundreds of years.

My Granddad might have offered his seat to a woman when she walked in the room … but my Grandmother was subject to restrictions unknown to any woman today.

Chivalry’s death can be attributed to no one else but women.  Almost every guy has at least one story of an angry female who doesn’t need her chair pulled out, her door opened for her, or her bill paid for.  Even women who still claim to need chivalry still want to walk acting “like a boy”.  Literally … I have had a woman say she wears her p*nis at work, and hangs it at the door of her man’s house.  Well miss … if you wanna carry a d*ck around in your purse … don’t ask me for sh*.  You just shot chivalry!

Now, when I am told I have to do something (give my seat up on the train, open up a car door, buy you a drink) because I’m a man and your not … I stop, slowly turn around, and state “you can stand your a$$ up just like I would if I got on the train at the last stop! f* chivalry”.

See Also:  The Diary of a Mad Blogger Pt. 1

As I said … chivalry itself isn’t the problem.  Chivalry is part of a traditional gender role system that, while with its problems, kept balance in the universe.  There were things that I had to do as a man … and there were things women did … and somehow it all worked, well I guess it worked since people actually got married.

But fast forward … and things get funny.  There is an ever growing population that wants their well deserved newfound freedom and equality, but still wants the niceties that grandma had.  Don’t be greedy.

So to my women, I implore you … pick one.  You can have the freedom, the increased salary, and the open possibility for a female president … or you can have your car door opened, your drink bought for you, and stay in the house cooking and cleaning all day … not both.  I’ll still get your door, and I got the bill on the first date … but no mas.

Women …. #YouMad?  Men … feel me?  Is it just me, or am I by myself?  What do you think about Chivalry in 2011?

– SBM aka The biggest feminists you’ll ever meet aka “Sh* … I like free drinks too”

Comment(284)

  1. "As I said … chivalry itself isn’t the problem. Chivalry is part of a traditional gender role system that, while with its problems, kept balance in the universe. There were things that I had to do as a man … and there were things women did … and somehow it all worked, well I guess it worked since people actually got married." I co-sign this statement 100%… I however don't think that chivalry should die. There are still women like myself that subscribe wholeheartedly to traditional roles… Should they not expect and deserve a man to pull out there chair, walk on the outside of the street and such simply because other women don't? Men don't let chivalry die!!!
    My recent post Ending The Dating Drought……

      1. I like my women independent, I just don't like the power trip that comes with it… Women have a hard time seeing their limitationsjavascript: postComment(1);

        1. And thats fair. But understand not every woman who has a job is out here reminding you of it every 5 seconds. People (men or women) who do things like this typically have something to prove or some hidden insecurity. Either way it is unfair to judge all women based on some of the low lives you guys have had the misfortune to come upon…

        2. I will say iy again… Most women are not like MissMina… Maybe 15% of (black) American Women… And that is reaching

  2. I've never been the kind of woman who DEMANDS that a man open my door, stand when I enter/leave the room, pull out my chair, or pay for everything we do. While I do believe that many chivalrous things are simply part of good etiquette, I was always taught to be self-sufficient as well. I don't necessarily need those things to happen while in the company of a man, but again, they certainly are nice and a reflection of his good manners.
    However, I do feel that since I am very independent, men are either intimidated by me, or treat me as though I don't want/deserve their chivalry. THIS IS ENTIRELY FALSE.

    1. Certain flaws here or there aside, the thrust of the point is that you can't demand to be independent or chivalry when the situation is to your benefit. For every decision you make in life there are going to be positive and negative aspects to it, you can't flip flop at your convenience.

      1. I don't demand to be independent. I am because I have to be. I was not raised to sit around and wait for a man to take care of me, so I work hard for the things that I have and I refuse to apologize for that. Honestly, I am far from a feminist. Despite what these other chicks may say, I would be all too happy to be a rich housewife and shop all day using someone else's money. But that's not an option, so I'm forced to be independent and get what I want.

        I don't feel as though I'm "flip-flopping." If you're the type of man who wants to open doors for me, please do. But I'm not going to stand in front of a closed door and wait until someone rushes ahead to open it. [And I mean that literally. An actual door, not barriers that women face]

        1. The punishment is some men's attitude that you don't have to be treated like a lady now that you have your own.

          Just because we have to work now to earn a living doesn't mean we want to give up being treated like ladies.

        2. You now can work and be treated as equals (for the most part) but you still want to be "treated like a lady"?

          The "lady" that you are referring to was not allowed to work 75% of the time. Can't have it all …

        3. "You now can work and be treated as equals (for the most part) but you still want to be "treated like a lady"?

          The "lady" that you are referring to was not allowed to work 75% of the time. Can't have it all … "

          Working/ being treated as an equal and being a lady are mutually exclusive? Oh she works, therefore she cannot expect to be treated as a lady. I'm sorry, what??? There you have it ladies. Pick your battles. Don't expect to be treated with decency and manners because you made the decision to work. Quit your jobs so you don't have doors slammed in your face. Can't have it all ladies. SBM says so….

        4. Wouldn't you want your wife to be treated like a lady?

          We're not asking men to buy all of our food & clothes. We're saying that if you ask us out on a date, then you should offer to pay. I'm willing to bet that most women are willing to foot the bill sometimes as well, or at least reciprocate with a home-cooked meal.

          We're not asking guys to stand every time we enter a room, but if we're on a train and especially if I'm standing in heels, then & offer me your seat.

          We're not asking you to jump hurdles to open doors for us. But if you're right in front or next to us, why wouldn't you open it? The little energy that you exerted to open that door doesn't go ignored & will likely be rewarded.

        5. You know that same statement applies to men to, right? I don't demand to be the head of the household and take care of my own stuff along with that of my future family, it's because I have to be.

          "I don't demand to be independent. I am because I have to be." – That's just life. At least women (as a collective) had/have the option. We don't

        6. Tell me what does a woman working and her job title and how much she earns have to do with a man opening her door, pulling out her chair, buying her a drink and just showing common courtesy?
          As far as options we all always have options….we put the roles of men and women in place as a human race so we can change them at any time….but remember those roles are in place for specific reasons.
          I do understand mens annoyance at the attitudes of some women who feel "they don't need a man" once they reach financial independence and a certain status.

        7. Not sure how they aren't linked.

          How is the fact that you can now live on your own, work your own job, buy your own house, and make your own money (self-independence) is not tied to my desire to take care of you in other scenarios (yeah … puling out your chair, opening your car door, and buying your meals is me taking care of you).

    2. Can we get back to this notion that men are intimidated by a woman?

      What does that even mean? What type of guys are you dealing with that they feel intimidated/fearful around you?

      1. I've always wondered what intimidation means when a woman says it. Like scared to approach u or are u talkin about after the introduction phase Mizzcam?

        1. I can't speak for other women, but what I meant by that is that the men I've dealt with have felt like they were "inadequate" or "not on the same level" as I was. Our relationships didn't progress further because in their own words, "They felt like they couldn't provide for me." I never said and didn't not mean to imply that all men have this insecurity, but I've met quite a few. I can only speak on my own experiences. I bought my first house when I was 22, owned my own car, worked 2 jobs, & went to school full time. Again, I've worked hard for everything I have and will not apologize for it. Just because I can take care of myself doesn't mean I don't want or need someone in my life to at the very least, help out. I don't flaunt what I have, but when men find out what I have, they treat me like I'm spoiled and don't deserve things that they would have done otherwise. Like I don't need to be "cared for." That's BS.

        2. I have to co-sign the above comment … it's definitely only a certain type of guy who is complaining or talking about that. You've obviously achieved a lot, so you need a man who has achieved the same or more. If they guy you are dating hasn't … there is a 75% chance there will be a problem.

        3. Exactly. Thank you. I hate to be thrown into this group of women who feel like they're "entitled" to certain things simply because they have a yssup! I work hard for mine! Should I achieve less so a man can feel like he's a man when he's dating me?? Nah, dude. Not happening.

        4. mizzcam the reason why you have those issues with those particular men is because those men equate being a man with being a provider…if they simply feel like they cannot provide then they will not feel like "real men"……..men are more concrete and it's easier for them to give a woman concrete, tangible, and material things, or something like his time and attention….but as Audrey Chapman said in her book men have the hardest time giving the one thing women yearn for……his heart.

        5. And I've been through the same things with men in the past. Honestly regardless of the mans financial status the type of man women like us need is a really strong man who is secure in his manhood and doesn't define it by superficial things he can give to you…..and a man who isn't afraid to give his heart.

        6. No one is telling you to earn or achieve less … that would be silly.

          BUT! You do have to understand that many men inherently feel the need to provide for the significant other and you are going to need to find 1) a man who has done the same or more or 2) a man who just doesn't care. This means your dating pool is gonna be a little smaller, but for the 1's (like the writers here), when you do find him you'll be all super power couple n sh*.

          And on the inverse, if a man chose to not do sh* with his life, then he would also have a smaller dating pool to choose from because he.

      2. I doubt if any man is INTIMIDATED by women, i think women use that as an excuse to make them seem more powerful especially when a man doesn't want to deal with their nonsense. Gosh, when did women lose their humility?
        My recent post Fool for you

        1. Some men actually do admit to being intimated by women, whether it be because of their beauty or so-called independent status.

        2. Wouldn't that make the man want you more? Would that mean you're a challenge and he's like javelin jumping to your level? or is he only going to go toward women at or below his level? And isn't that sad? Because I think those uber independent/ extremely beautiful women are still women who are waiting for a man to approach them and allow them (women) to let down their guard… *ponders*
          My recent post Fool for you

        3. You would think so, but you have to remember all the conversations we have here about men feeling they have to accomplish a certain number of things (financially and otherwise) before feeling completely at ease as far as the relationship and dating games are concerned. More men than women are likely to be intimidated by a partner who seems to be two steps ahead of the race. You also have to remember that some people will overcome the intimidation….but it doesn't change the fact that it exists or once existed. Also, some guys are dealing with insecurities and need to feel needed. A lot of independent women are clear about not needing men, whether or not they are rude or in your face about it. That's not always well received.

          That said, I agree that a lot of women BS their way into the intimidation argument. Personally, some guys are intimidated by me, but they're in the minority. There's no reason to feel intimidated by the fact that I'm self-sufficient, both emotionally and financially. It doesn't mean that I wouldn't want a man to, or let him take the lead. All it means is that there are certain things I'm not likely to tolerate because, quite frankly, I have no reason to.

        4. good points justlissen….It is sad…unfortunately when your dealing with a man who wants to "conquer" a woman he typically will not be with a woman who intimidates him because he feels she can outdo him and/or has more than him.

        5. I don't know that this was directed at me or just women in general who've made that statement. But in my case specifically, I could really give a f*ck less about seeming "powerful" in the eyes of men. If I want something, I get it. Plain and simple. Ambitious women get a bad rap, because apparently that's a masculine quality. IME, the men I've dealt with didn't like it and have actually expressed that it was intimidating. So, my humility is in tact…

  3. I think feminists (aka undercover female supremacists) dream about chivalrous men more than any other group of women, they just want the attractive alpha men doing the chivalry…

    Hence The essence of this post

    LINK Chivalry can only come from a position of strength LINK

    Right here…

    Since Beyonce told me that Women "Run The World" now (in SBM massive she has been deified & well respected)… I think women should be paying for dates, opening doors, putting a ring on it (There I go again with Beyonce), and all the other wonderful privileges that come with being a provider…

    In exchange, I'll be raise the children & be a LINK "kitchen bitch" LINK … She can cheat (& so can I) and LINK I'll take half when the marriage gets boring… LINK

    I am welcoming this role reversal with open arms…

    ———————————————————————————————————–

    And as far as Most's G-Code post… The biggest rule of all as far as being a man, is learning how to adjust today's social norms (which as a 23 year old black male has failed to do so)… That means being really stingy & really selective in being chivalrous…

    Goodnight & SSTTE

  4. I'll give up chivalry when y'all give up male privilege. 🙂

    Chivalry is but one small aspect of a global culture of gender inequity, from which you (men) ultimately benefit.

    Honestly if feeling obligated to pull out a few chairs and pay for a couple of dates is the most of your gender inequity problems… y'all have it pretty good. I mean, you're comparing a thousands of dollars of increased wages over a lifetime…. to couple of first dates at the Cheesecake Factory. Like for real, son? You can't be serious right now lol. As woman, and looking at the situation from the opposite side, I would gladly trade your higher salary for my seat on the T. But we both know that's not gonna happen. That would be way to dumb on your part.

    So y'all keep your death grip on money, power, strength, clout, respect… and I'll hold on to my little bit of chivalry and sense of independence. And if you try to kill it again, I will resuscitate it… I'll put it on the ventilator if I need to. I don't care lol.

    My recent post Made Up Face to the World.

    1. Alright… @maverickin…. I am game… You are trivializing chivalry, male protection, & male investment & taking males for granted as if you would be just fine if men took all these things away…

      Now, what annoys me with (black) women, is that they go two places, either talk about the most powerful, handsome, alpha of men (apex fallacy at the top) (the top 10%-20%) or the "ninjas ain't sh!t", "bottom of the barrel" black men fallacy (the bottom 10%-20%) & use these two types of men as the basis of their argument…

      Ignoring all the men make up the majority & fit in the middle of the big fat bell curve… (60%-80%) who don't have a "death grip on money, power, strength, clout, respect" but not the bottom of the barrel of men…

      Interestingly & coincidentally, these are the men women happily sleep with 70%-80% of today's modern (black) Western Woman, so this maybe the reason why women forget about the average dude…

      So y'all keep your death grip on money, power, strength, clout, respect… Apex Fallacy again my darling, Last time I checked, most (black) men don't have a death grip on none of these things…

      I am simply asking, what justification do you have to play both sides of the coin (thank your female supremacists for that), when the average dude you keep ignoring on a daily basis, when most average men cannot be a male &/or a female whenever the moment suits them…

      I am very interested in hearing your response…

      1. Give me someone in the middle. The men at the top are obnoxious and arrogant; the men at the bottom are not to be considered for dating under any circumstances. I LOVE guys in the middle. My twitter is @KatWebb84, men in the middle. Message me any time. 😉

        1. You've been going hard on advertising yourself lol. #Iaintmadatcha

          ::checks your profile in stealh ninja mode::

        2. LOL! I just can't stress enough that, despite the propaganda, there are PLENTY of ladies in existence who aren't looking for only the 99th percentile. And if you don't believe me, my info is there, lol.

      2. Honestly… not entirely sure if I understand the point you're making, so excuse me if I get it wrong… you're going to have to be little more clear. I'm also not entirely sure if you got the point that I was making, but whatever.

        First of all, it seems like you're limiting my post to black men, which i didn't do.. I am not limited to black men as far interactions or even dating. Secondly, its seems like you feel like black men are not beneficiaries of male privilege…. and to that I disagree. You may not benefit to the degree that white men do…. but you still benefit.

        As far my justification for playing both sides of the coin… that's what I need to do to succeed in my world both career-wise and dating wise. The men I generally date aren't really looking for a girl who can't bring anything to the table as far as intellect and career. They also aren't into women who emasculate them with the whole independence mantra. I've learned to play both sides skillfully, put on a specific hat when the time calls for it, and the men that I date like it. So why should I stop?

        But that just holds for me and my life.All guys aren't looking for the same thing, or have the same mindset. Clearly you are not into women like me… and that's fine since I'm not dating you lol. As for all these other "average dudes" that I'm ignoring…are we sure they're even checking for me like that?
        My recent post The Weeknd is here 🙂

        1. I am all for black women dating non-black men so have my well wishes…

          What is male privilege BTW… What fun are most black males having that most black women aren't…

          As far my justification for playing both sides of the coin…

          No what you did was, was try to justify your coin play with a MINORITY of men… (And in the black community the top men are very minute, & I believe we have a disportionate amount of men on the bottom because of our unique circumstances) Which I understand because those are the type of casinos you like to play in (The House always wins BTW), it just doesn't hold water because most men are not like the men you like to date… (And I see you backtracking now…)

          You & other women need to get off this belief system that men have all this power & are oppressing women with it… When most men & women are in similar circumstances and only a few men & women on the top hold all the cards…

          SSTTE

  5. First off, I do agree that women are killing chivalry however, I disagree that the act of chilvalry=weak women.

    Wanting a man to open a door or pay on the first date doesn’t mean on not self sufficient or “can’t handle mine” I think women need to ask the question, why is it that strength is always defined in masculine terms? Why can’t we be ladies and treated as such and still be strong? I think being feminine in itself has its own strength.

    With that said, I personally think the American feminist movement had nothing to do with women of color but addressing that would lead into a whole separate topic.

    I think men should be true to who they are. If you take out a woman and you want to treat her like a lady, etc do it. If a woman gives you a hard time for pulling out her chair don’t do it for HER but don’t assume all women won’t appreciate it. Remember we are living in times of emergency…broken families, single parents,absent fathers, abusive childhoods…not all women have been shown what its like to be treated with respect by men or have seen their mothers treated with any.

    1. Your argument really fell apart when you said "not all women have been shown what its like to be treated with respect by men".

      Chivalry is dead, that's a fact. But treating women with respect is not. I still treat my finacee with all the respect that she deserves, and part of that respect is not treating her like my subordinate. Chivalry is a system not built on mutual respect … at all.

  6. I want it all and I am not apologetic. Be happy that I am considerate enough to hang up my peni$ when I get home. After all… didn’t you spend your earlier years hoe’n only to want a virgin later?

      1. lol! I'm pretty sure that was meant figuratively. It's a man's world… especially in the work place. Many women recognize the need to play the game the way men have set it up. However I would think a man would be lucky to have a woman that understands that what makes her succeed at work will not work at home hence 'hanging up the peni$' when she gets home.

        You say f*d up way of thinking… I say adaptability

        1. Maybe it's my personal beef with women referring in anyway shape of form to their p**is, but I don't like that thought.

          My real beef with was "I want it all"

          On that same note, I want it all too then. I want an independent woman, with her own job, that can buy me things. I also want to make more than her, never be questioned in my decision making, have breakfast, lunch, and dinner made from scratch daily, have her raise the kids, and have her be just as well educated. I also want her to be ready for "relations" 24/7 (no headache BS), take it all without gagging, and give me neck massages.

          If you can want it all … then me and every other man want it too!

        2. Yea cause that's totally fair. Her "wanting it all" means having a job and equal rights, and having men be extra-polite to her. Your "wanting it all" means "making more than her, never be questioned in my decision making, have breakfast, lunch, and dinner made from scratch daily, have her raise the kids, and have her be just as well educated. I also want her to be ready for "relations" 24/7 (no headache BS), take it all without gagging, and give me neck massages."

  7. SBM right on time!

    Let me just add, Chivalry is not what is important in life. You are not going to find happiness in being pampered. Its not even a way to treat a partner who you see as your equal. Do you really want to go back to the middle ages?? Should we start arranging marriages or completely ignore your political influence?

    Half these ho3s can't cook a decent meal for a ninja, and you want to talk about chivalry??? gtfoh

      1. I'm an EXCELLENT cook. I'm also a master baker. I keep a clean house, I am a polite person, etc. Generally, I fall into the category of what guys SAY they are looking for (except I'm not into casual sex).

        Fast forward to when I'm IN a relationship (which isn't often): Then I'm cooking, cleaning, cutting my errands short to cater to them, and there's not a one THANK YOU coming my way for all of that. Meanwhile, every time I was taken out in the beginning (and nowadays, you're lucky if a dude treats you like a lady beyond the FIRST DATE), I was grateful, and saying thank you and just generally being DECENT.

        So all these dudes acting like they love a good home-cooked meal need to spread the word. Because every time I get a dude, all my lady-like efforts are taken for granted.

        My solution is NOT to stop being lady-like. That's who I am. I'm just a decent person. My solution is to ditch those who don't appreciate my efforts and who rail against the system acting like chivalry isn't just another way of saying having manners. At least, in my opinion, it is.

        I have a similar distaste for people who don't celebrate Christmas or Valentine's Day, not for religious reasons, but because "it's a consumer-driven holiday, invented by Hallmark, to get us to waste money on things and people we don't need."

        Basically, I'm not interested in people who take a stand against perfectly fine things. Being festive at the holidays is one. Making a big deal over who pays for dinner on occasion is another. That's petty. Too many petty people around me. I don't sweat the small stuff like that.

    1. "Half these ho3s can't cook a decent meal for a ninja, and you want to talk about chivalry??? gtfoh"

      Easy enough fix. How about you stop hanging out with these "hoes" and start spending more time with the decent women who would bring out the chivalrous side of you? You know, the one that can cook a "decent" meal for you? Or maybe not. I mean, if you're not out there trying to be chivalrous anyway, you certainly won't be looking for any woman who would require or attempt to bring out that side of you…

      1. "How about you stop hanging out with these "hoes" and start spending more time with the decent women….."

        I'm sorry, I should have been clear. By hoes, I meant all women that have ever lived without exception. Not as a disrespectful way, just a general term for women. I hope that help clear things up. Good day Madam.

        1. You did indeed. I feel your pain. You call all women "hoes" by default. And yet women are still out there trying to demand chivalry from you? What are they thinking?? You're right. These women need to gtfoh! "Let me get this door for you hoe…" I mean how ridiculous does that sound? I totally get your point!

  8. SIDE NOTE: SBM, you know GOOD AND DANG WELL that you aren't the only man who feels this way, so that last bit was just looking for a pat on the back from like-minded men.

    Back to my post: This is why Southern men win. 🙂

    SBM, you are not by yourself in the ridiculousness that is acting like you don't understand women would like to be treated as if they aren't men IN A ROMANTIC CONTEXT, but treated EQUALLY with men in a PROFESSIONAL/SOCIETAL CONTEXT. In the South, men just seemed to take this new information and adapt to it. Except for a few boneheads, they said,

    "OK, we'll stop beating you, forcing you to pop-out children, not allowing you to speak and paying you less, but we'll STILL understand that men and women are NOT the same, they DEFINITELY take on different roles (according to their gender) in a relationship, and we won't throw all these out because of one change."

    And that's why I love them.

    Norheast and Western men, however, just lost their DANG mind, and said,

    "Wait, so you want equal pay and not to stay home as our domestic slave? Well then you can't be treated to a nice dinner, I'm gonna talk to you as if you're 'one of the guys', and I'm gonna force you to adapt OUR methods of casual sex, which only benefit us, even though we're aware this setup is unnatural to most women. Can't do it? See, I told you there aren't any good women left!"

    I love Bill Burr, as a comedian, but honestly, his coining of the term "salad bar feminism" has empowered a lot of ain't ish dudes that REALLY just weren't very nice or thoughtful in the first place to justify their disrespect towards women and societal uncouth-ness. They go,

    "See? Y'all are trying to have EVERYTHING!",

    when, in actuality, we're merely just trying to better are social and relationship standing which is a HUMAN goal, not a supposedly female one. Just like men railing on that chilvalry is dead and women killed it and whatnot, is men trying to better THEIR social and relationship standing.

    Anyway, for a while I tried to live the life suggested in this article. To try to make a better life for myself where I was respected at work and thought as competent, but then bowed down to the mail whims of casual sex and acting like I didn't care that they didn't hold doors or pull out chairs.

    That Kat is no more. I'm from Austin, TX, and if you're not into holding doors, pulling out chairs, and just generally considering that I'm a FEMALE, that's on you. And yes, I will THEN go to WORK and make AS MUCH MONEY AS I CAN, because I want what's best for ME.

    1. "SIDE NOTE: SBM, you know GOOD AND DANG WELL that you aren't the only man who feels this way, so that last bit was just looking for a pat on the back from like-minded men."
      That is a load of crap. On monday, I was the only goon sticking his head out. The rest of these ninjas were turtles. The world is full of followers. If you tell men that the easiest way to buns is with chivalry, they will do it or atleast fake it. Its actually stand up guys that question why we are being asked to do something and risk warm wet woman whirlpool.

      And the men I look up to are above this old school begging for thanks and attention. They can keep a woman's attention with their looks and personality. They don't have to steal style points from Sir Lancelot.

    2. All my married friends are native New Yorkers and at this point this is about 10 guys so I dont know where you get this idea that geography plays a role in men "winning" dont be so myopic

    3. I am a New Yorker chilling in Birmingham, AL proabably some famous spot in Civil Rights History… And from what I observed, they are no better than NorthEastern chicks (just a tad bit more polite)… The men are doing the women a disservice by co-signing that salad bar feminism bullsh!t… Because women, in their s*xual prime, high off the power they get from men, don't appreciate beta male kindness, and respond very well to a$$holes…

      Southern men need some Internet in their lives & realize the men they probably despise is sleeping & knocking up all the women out here… (And the average women not name KatWebb, secretly despise them as well)

    4. Oddly enough, I was in Austin like 2 weeks ago. Dudes aren't that much nicer. Also, I'm from DC and lived in ATL … ATL dudes are 10x more grimy that DC guys. Please don't believe the south is some magic haven for Chivalry … please.

      Basically, what I hear you saying is that you deserve the best in both worlds. You get to go to work, make your money, and make VP, something your grandmother could only have dreamed about.

      Then you come home late after working 10 hour days, and responsibilities are split down the middle. You don't have to always cook dinner or always clean … again … something your grandmother could only have dreamed about.

      And then … on top of it … you are still treated like a queen in all social settings involving men. You always get a seat on the bus, your chair is always pulled out for you, you never open your wallet at the club or restaurant.

      The last one is my beef. You just want to keep winning all day, all the time, no matter the situation. I love independent women who understand that you can't have it all and that benefits are paired with negatives to keep the universe balanced.

      1. Why does everything have to be ALL or NONE? Yes I like it when you offer your seat to me. Yes I like it when you pull my chair out. Yes I like it when you buy me dinner or a drink. Who says that you have to do it EVERY time ALL the time? No seriously, is there really a whole bunch of women out here saying "I'm independent I don't need a man" and then say "I need you to open this door for me and give me your seat buy me a drink everytime you see me"? I think the women saying the latter are not the ones saying "I don't need a man". Also I am independent =/= I don't need a man.

      2. i think you missed her point – the part where she said "in a romantic context". Treating a woman you're romantically involved with "like a lady" is common sense. Treating women you're not involved with as an equal is too. We're not talking about the same situation.
        Good post.

      1. Well, hey, you don't have to tell me. I've lived in both places and I've recognized the differences. But that's just me. Apparently y'all know a bunch of grimey Southern people. That's unfortunate and fortunately, that's not the case for me. 🙂

    5. Nail on the head. Fellas, they know what the deal is… never doubt that. Katt, Cynical, and Ms Smart have been tellin you ninjas what the deal was; however, in Kat's case, she's missin just a little bit of the story. She's forgetting that:

      WOMEN ARE THE GATEKEEPERS OF SEX — MEN ARE THE GATEKEEPERS OF COMMITMENT.
      MEN FOLLOW THE PATH OF LEAST RESISTANCE TO SEX. SOOOO….

      Women have their own money now. This is crucial. THIS is the reason for the gender breakdown, role reversal and the loss of gentlemanly codes of conduct (THAT's what we're really talking about here. Chivalry refers to a very important and very ancient societal concept… the idea that men are disposable and women are perishable. WE BABY WOMEN AND DEMONIZE MEN. There's a reason men receive harsher sentences for similar crimes than women, fellas. There's a reason men go to war and women don't… THERE'S A REASON THREE MEN GAVE THEIR LIVES FOR THEIR WOMEN DURING A SHOOTING SPREE IN COLORADO AND THERE'S A REASON DRASTICALLY MORE MEN DIED IN THE TITANIC DISASTER THAN WOMEN… WE ARE DISPOSABLE).

      IN A WORLD WHERE WOMEN'S NEED FOR PROVISIONING AND PROTECTION ARE LARGELY PROVIDED FOR, WOMEN WILL SELECT THEIR MATES ALONG STRICT INTERPRETATIONS OF DESIRED DOMINANT BEHAVIOR. IN SHORT, THE DEPENDABLE, PROVIDER BETA MALE IS NO LONGER VALUABLE.

      Chivalry didn't disappear because men cannot or have not recognized that women are different from men and wish to be treated as such (indeed, women, i.e. feminists have a bigger, more intimate problem with this concept than men do). Chivalry disappeared because women don't select for it. They are cared for and safe… therefore, they aren't really looking for a provider or a protector per se; WOMEN ARE ACTIVELY SEEKING MEN WITH THE MOST OVERTLY DISPLAYED ALPHA BEHAVIORAL CHARACTERISTICS THEIR LOOKS AND LEVEL OF FEMININITY CAN DICTATE THEY FIND. Dominance, CONFIDENCE, independence, wit, humor, DECISIVENESS, mental quickness, boldness, aggressiveness, ambition, STATUS.

      In essence, women are actively seeking LEADERS. Women respond to it and call it love. They can do these things now because unlike 50-60 years ago, society will not punish them for having sex out of wedlock or having illegitimate children. The risks were too great then, so they settled for providers and that was that. The glass ceiling was real and their options were very limited. 20-30 years ago, men derived status from having a hot girlfriend. Now they derive sexual status among their peers by engaging in what men have always wanted to (but only a few men have the option to exercise): SEXUAL VARIETY.

      The men with the most options refuse to restrain themselves. Make no mistake, women realize that it sucks that society no longer forces ALPHAS and GREATER BETAS into marriage. So they accuse the vast majority of men of being lazy louts who refuse to acknowledge the plurality of women's wants, no matter how logical or simple they may seem. By selecting for alphas and greater betas, women have sent the signal to let men know that gentlemanly codes of conduct are no longer required. But they're butthurt because the alphas pump and dump them, the greater betas do the same, eventually marrying younger women than they (hot coeds in their late teens and early-mid 20s don't give two f*cks about 'gentlemanship' or 'manning up'), the betas remain unpalatable (though excellent choices for women fast approaching the beauty wall), and omegas talk about how awesome their new fat girlfriend's kids are.

  9. I think mizz cam is a prime example of this post. She “dont want” the chivalry but it would still be nice to receive chivalrous acts. Smh make up your mind!

    *continues reading comments*

    1. I very clearly stated that I DID want chivalry. I said that I don't demand it. I think it's ridiculous to expect a man to pay for everything when I work just like he does. And that the majority of things that qualify as "chivalrous acts" are simply good etiquette. So Idk what you think you read, but I did not say that…

    1. The men that women want (Alphas) KNOW that they do not have to engage in all but the most basic forms of the conduct of the gentleman. Women have reinforced the (correct) idea in their heads that their alpha behavioral characteristics, status and money are the things the numerous women they bed are really after.

      IT'S THE MILQUETOAST BETAS WHO HAVE YET TO REALIZE THE NATURE OF THE NEW GAME WHO STILL BELIEVE IN AND ENGAGE IN GENTLEMANLY CODES OF CONDUCT.

      THAT'S WHY YOU HERE SO MANY STORIES OF MEN WHO EXEMPLIFIED GENTLEMANLY BEHAVIOR BUT WERE CALLED 'CREEPY' BY WOMEN… THEY WERE BETA DUDES WHO DIDN'T/DON'T REALIZE THAT YOU HAVE TO APPROACH A WOMAN AS A LEADER. OTHERWISE, SHE'LL JUST CALL YOU CREEPY AND USE YOU.

      These dudes were/are too naive to realize that they need to stop listening to what women say and start paying attention to what they do. Gentlemanly code of conduct is dying (not dead… the betas are making sure of that, and are getting friend zoned left and right for it) — and hypergamy killed it.

  10. I have an issue with the term "chivalry" – because some of the actions that tend to be discussed are just proper manners, irrespective of gender. Idk about y'all but my mom taught me to hold the door for anyone if someone was coming up, same for giving the seat up for pregnant women and the elderly (and dont tell me that its common sense, bc ive seen enough foolishness in ny and dc trains to prove that wrong).

    Now with stuff like pulling out the seat, and paying the bill or whatever, I really only expect that in a courtship type of manner, and even that depends on the circumstances. I'm not heated if a guy doesn't open a car door for me – I have arms, and going around the car always seemed a bit silly to me. But stuff like offering me a jacket when its cold just shows your considerate of how i'm feeling, not "taking care of the weaker gender" – maybe that was the original perception, but thats not how I interpret it now. Same way you expect your girl to care about your passions by knowing the sports teams youre a fan of and attempting to feign interest from time to time. (Not me though – im in three fantasy leagues..)

    So, to me its not a comparison of gender equality, its just showing that you're attentive to the situation. Is that so bad?
    My recent post inomallday: RT @billmaher: Ridic to c Perry, Romney argue who can create more jobs as prez when both have said govt doesnt create jobs! Get ur bulls …

    1. Shamira, considering that women collectively have lost that polite attentiveness… YES it is a big deal…

      The men in this new system, are playing by old rules (the gender social contract) , when most of the women they are entertaining are playing by the new rules (gender, equality, dating, sleeping around, boyfriends, divorce when I get bored)

    2. I am in agreement about general good manners and politeness. I treat women just like I treat other humans (with a few exceptions). Basically, I feel that if you are just a nice/considerate individual then words like Chivalry don't mean and don't have to mean anything to you.

  11. I agree with the idea that there are women out there who are killing chivalry. You got that. But I have to give a complete no-sign to the below:____"You can have the freedom, the increased salary, and the open possibility for a female president … or you can have your car door opened, your drink bought for you, and stay in the house cooking and cleaning all day … not both. I’ll still get your door, and I got the bill on the first date … but no mas."____I grew up in a traditional African household and still got a good education that led to a good job. If I'm expected to hold my own with the money coming into the house and also cook, clean and RAISE (not take care of) the kids, which I will GLADLY do, then the man can also be chivalrous while accepting my "independence." Which actually benefits the both of us. It's all about balance.

  12. "Chivalry’s death can be attributed to no one else but women. Almost every guy has at least one story of an angry female who doesn’t need her chair pulled out, her door opened for her, or her bill paid for. "

    And just as many women have a story of breaking up with a dude (at any stage, but more impacting when it was a marriage… and with kids), leaving her to have to fend for herself. This may be a chicken/egg argument, but I find it hard to believe that women just up and decided that they were gonna forget about chivalry as a concept. As it has been said many times before, women are emotional creatures so the "independent" stance is more reactionary than anything. I mean, how many single mothers are out there? So if you want to trace it back to women becoming more independent, you have to trace it ALL the way back.

    Yes, some women take it to the extreme, but you can't be mad at the basis of female independence. It was instinctual, if anything. Survival. I mean, some sort of independence should be celebrated, not condemned. Like I said, it gets extreme, but it may take some time for that wall to come down. Women watching their mothers, aunts, sisters fend for themselves becomes ingrained like a mug!

    Me being able to take care of myself financially isn't mutually exclusive of you taking a chair out, opening a car door for me, or even paying for my dinner. And why should it be?
    My recent post Friday Foolery: Pinched Pictures Vol. 5

    1. "Me being able to take care of myself financially isn't mutually exclusive of you taking a chair out, opening a car door for me, or even paying for my dinner. And why should it be? "

      BECAUSE the expectation of a chair being pulled out for you was first created based on your dependence on me. We can't pretend like chivalry started out of nowhere. It had a point and purpose, now its just pathetic pandering for pu$$y.

      1. "BECAUSE the expectation of a chair being pulled out for you was first created based on your dependence on me"

        You are WRONG! It was because it was romantic, not because "woe is me, I'm a woman". The men back in the day KNEW what women appreciated. Men may feel week if someone holds the door open for them, but not most women. I would feel honored that you want to assist me in my daily motion, not that you want me dependent on you.

        1. Chill out Arch Bacon Deluxe. I disagree. Romance and the reference to woman was only a small part of chivalry and that gets lost in the hollywood message that is translated today. I think it was more about compassion for the weak.

          The whole romantic, women/men relationship part I think was the most marketable point of it and that is what everyone thinks about when they think of chivalry. But big picture, its smells like patronization.

        2. Its about appreciation CHeeKZ. Making your plate and taking it up after dinner, greeting you with a smile, having your things where you can find them, being available to you all day every day is not something I HAVE to do either. I do them because I honor and support your mission as a MAN. I do them out of love and appreciation. Although men act as if they can carry the weight of the world without help, I know better.

          All women want is for you to understand that we carry a lot of weight too. If the small acts of appreciation (chivalry) are being taken for granted, I am scared for my baby girl.

        3. Wait a sec…I just *died* and came back to life on Arch Bacon Deluxe. This is why Cheekz lives in a dang corner. lol!

        4. ok BK Bacon Stacker… Ok I hear you. I hear you loud and clear. I hear you like I hear a bad Lil Wayne song on the radio 15 times a day. However, all a pimp named CHeeKZ Money is saying is I should be allowed to express my appreciation my own way. I shouldn't be a set of laws, it should be personal and reflective of our relationship not some formal corny standard.

          "Valentine cards and birthday wishes? Please
          Be on another level of planning of understanding the bond between man and woman"

          Who cares what side I walk on when I appreciate my wifey and treat her well. Do you want to be with me and who I am as a person? Or do you just want to be with a guy? Because any chomp could do those things as a sign of appreciation.

        5. Now your getting into details. There isn't a defined list of what constitute a chivalrous act. I never said you HAD to do anything a certain way. I take issue with MEN having an issue in general about chivalry (appreciation). I understand "your all I need to get by" mentality however, let's be real pimp CHeeKZ Money, if I didn't bring the "traditional" woman duties to the table, you would NOT be a happy brother.

          I don't think chivalry is dead, its just changed in general.

        6. "let's be real pimp CHeeKZ Money"

          Excuse me. Its A Pimp named CHeeKZ Money.

          See Baconator, if the issue is appreciation no one is going to say anything. Is like WIS was trying to say, I'll treat my woman right. However if you want me to treat all woman some kind of way just for being born with a hole you are going to get a FAIL from me.

        7. Again Beef Bacon, Cheekz is right, chivalry was

          1. social rules created on the idea that men & women are different… Men provided for women, while women gave men a clean womb to impregnate & ensured that the children came out of her was his…

          2. Chivalry (from what I have learned) was done among the aristocratic class in medieval times, it was when men & women did not interact early & often, so when you did see a high class woman, it was a bit of a special event…

          But I hope you are not weakly co-signing that men be nice to women just because they have a [email protected]

        8. They were not rules, but QUALITIES of a Man WORTHY of becoming a Knight. Chivalry is a word used to define the qualities of an ideal night (brave, courteous, generous, and service). If displaying theses characteristics is so hard to fathom to brothers, don't expect a great woman to be in your midst (for long).

          And yes, I am co-signing that men be nice to women IN GENERAL. Having a [email protected] is just apart of a woman's package Ash.

        9. Well, part of being an ideal knight is having a ideal lady to be a knight for…

          And that is the part you are overlooking Beef Bacon… I don't see Beef Bacon's when I walk out in the street in NY, NY or Birmingham, AL

          The closest to ladies I have seen are the white college girls at the University of Alabama (although, they might be undercover sl*ts)…

          The type of women you & I would agree in being a knight for, are already married, or having plenty of men willing to fill the role… The rest of these women ain't ish…

          And that is a truth alot of women haven't come to yet…

        10. Ash, WOW…just WOW. Ash, being a knight is not about a woman at all…is about integrity. Women just receive benefits of the qualities of the knight…who is a knight whether he has a woman or not. You should not turn your knighthood on or off for ANY woman. A man/woman should stay true to who they are and not allow people to influence how they treat others.

          I do my best to treat others based on INTERNAL motivation not external factors. External factors will have you riding a crazy emotional roller coaster. You Ash are coming into the room with a jaded sense of women, so you will attract that. Your leaping far and wide assuming there are not worthy women you come in contact with daily. You have to remove the "I HATE ALL WOMEN " glasses to see them tho…

        11. Here we go… You are missing how being chivalrous is encouraging the worst qualities in women… Being a knight is conditional on the basis that women be ladies… END OF STORY … I do not do it JUST BECAUSE… Unfortunately, if we are going to have women be women again, men have to correct the market by responding to what the women are showing us…

          I cannot believe you are co-signing being a knight no matter what… If you have a son, you are setting him up like a lamb to the slaughter… As much as I don't want to betray my male instincts… IT HAS TO BE DONE for me & for the good of society

          I refuse to be an enabler….

          SSTTE

          P.S. Even in my cynicism, I still meet fantastic women, THEY ARE OUT THERE, it was just that some dude was quicker to the draw than I was…

          If a woman is still single over 25, there is a good reason for that, and most likely SHE AIN'T SH!T… It is a fact of life… (There are exception that prove the rule)

        12. "If a woman is still single over 25, there is a good reason for that"

          ABSOLUTELY!!! and the reason being is that she is waiting for that man to get over his fear of falling in LOVE.. 😉

        13. You mean the dude she & the other 5 women he is sleeping with & being monogamous would cramp his lifestyle… I understand

          I guess it is a good excuse… But a good reason

      2. "BECAUSE the expectation of a chair being pulled out for you was first created based on your dependence on me. We can't pretend like chivalry started out of nowhere. It had a point and purpose, now its just pathetic pandering for pu$$y. "

        o________O

        1. It ain't that deep. It was based off of etiquette and manners. That's like saying holding the door for someone means that that person couldn't have opened up themselves. Nawl.

        2. My entire comment was about chilvary not coming outta nowhere, doe. lol

      3. "Because the expectation of a chair being pulled out for you was first created based on your dependence on me"

        I don't get this idea. What exactly is the correlation between female dependence and your ability/inability to be a considerate, well-mannered man?
        My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

        1. considerate?

          what's considerate about pandering? I'm considerate of human beings… but pulling out chair for people who can do it their damn selves? Its backwards taht we consider that to make a considerate man.

        2. ok. but you didn't answer my question. Or am I to assume that the only reason you're against pulling out a chair or holding the door for someone is because they can do it themselves?

          Tying that to your 'most women can't cook' comment- so you'd appreciate it if a woman had a nice home-cooked meal ready for you each time you wanted it? Does that mean you're unable(lack the physical/mental capabilities) to cook? Considerate is considerate.

          Obviously this whole chivalry/gentleman thing isn't your cup of tea and that's fine, but it seems as though you don't even know why you're soooo against it.
          My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

        3. to be honest with you. I didn't answer your question b/c my boss was going by and I didn't have time to type so I just hit submit.

          However, answer the question the way you posed it would mean chivalry was a sign of being considerate. That isn't true.

          Truth be told, I can cook for myself and my wifey can open doors for herself so no one should be excepted to do either. I don't pratice chivalry, I help my boo get through life. So if I carry a bag, I'm just helping the person I care about. (keep in mind, I will never ever carry I woman's purse. That is an insult to my manhood). I'm not against manners or practicality but I think people are bluring the line on purpose to make men like me look like some form of scum.

        4. " I didn't answer your question b/c my boss was going by and I didn't have time to type so I just hit submit"

          lmao. gotcha.

          "So if I carry a bag, I'm just helping the person I care about. (keep in mind, I will never ever carry I woman's purse. That is an insult to my manhood)"

          lol @ the disclaimer. So you're helpful, not against manners…you're simply afraid of looking like a s***?(btw why are we censoring that word?) If it helps, I dont think people are blurring the line on purpose…to me, a considerate man= a gentleman. The next girl may feel differently.
          My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

        5. "I'm considerate of human beings… but pulling out chair for people who can do it their damn selves?"

          It's is, though.. there are SEVERAL other basic manners rules that don't "need" to be done but folks to it anyway to be polite… which is the whole basis of chilvary. It's not needed, it's nice.

  13. This entire post is based on the notion that women and men have finally reached a point of gender equality, and while I wouldn’t dare minimize the huge strides made by generations of women before me, I can’t say the playing field is level just yet.

    It would be like saying racism in America no longer exist because we finally have a black president. ( but I’m not sure where you stand on that issue, so I won’t dwell)

    Please believe that the women breaking through the glass ceiling (and those who follow behind) will still endure their share of sexism, ignorance and double standards.

    So sure, I’ll buy a man a drink . Heck, on occasion I’ll foot the bill for dinner. But you fellas can still open doors, pull out chairs , and walk on the outside.

    And don’t try to excuse bad manners as gender equality.

    1. I will just say this about women breaking glass ceilings…

      1. You cannot call yourselves equal, when you take more days off than men in the workplace ( childless or otherwise ), I can see why men would question women being in the workplace, and do less work & more complaining…

      2. You cannot call your selves equals or independent, if you are being sponsored by some mangina somewhere, through the guise of courtship, child support, vagina-mony or The Welfare State… A very small percentage of men can pull that off… But it is a regular thing among women…

      Spare me on Glass Ceilings

  14. To me Chivalry wasn't really defined the way you described it.."helping the weaker woman"… I think it was a form of courtship and also the way Men were raised back in those times…it was called being a Gentleman…..it is the same way I am raising my boys….it's not dead unless you want it to be dead..in my household it's alive and well….It is something you are taught and it is ingrained in your upbringing…either you have it or you don't…..it really is about good manners and being polite….it's not about Women requiring it..or wanting to much….it's not even about us..it's about YOU doing something that you feel is the Gentleman thing to do….

    I find that alot of Men raised in the South have it in them automatically…they can't even help it…it's second nature to them…..it's a natural reflex it's so ingrained in their upbringing….so, it's how you were raised in my opinion…

    The bottom line is most women do appreciate it..and the small percentage who do not…that is a personal issue with them…it has nothing to do with the act of Chivalry itself.

    1. Gentlemen = Trick

      And Southern men need to be updated… And I will happily do the updating…

      I also think you downplaying the number of young women who discourage chivalry with outright disrespect or they will take advantage of the man

  15. I think part of the problem stemmed from the absence of blk men in the household. Women were left alone to teach their daughters how to survive with or without a man. This empowerment seems to have led to a power shift at home and at the office….

    I'm usually tough on women but it def is a thin line they walk when it comes to chivalry, its not all their fault, we kinda are to blame…granted we've (blk men) had our own separate set of issues

  16. Men and Women are not equal, and never was. We are complementary to each other.

    Men are the stronger of the two sexes. Always have been, just a natural quality.

    Chivalry is NOT the interactions between a closed relationship, but male/female interaction as a whole. What your man/girl decides to do for you to cater to you is not chivalry, but affection.

    Chivalry is a system of balance, where I likened it to Affirmative Action. From a position of power, the stronger race extends offers to the weaker one, in an attempt to cater to them.

    Chivalry is a power play.

    1. Men and women are equal. Equality is about intrinsic value, not about perceived differences in ability. And value is related to what we have to offer society. I disagree with you on that.

      Your second point about chivalry being a male/female interaction as a whole made me rethink the views I expressed upthread though.

  17. Chivalry? Eh, I can live without it.

    Chivalry doesn’t bother me that much. It is annoying that women pick and choose what they want a man to do for them and not do for them as if dating is a relationship menu that only they are privy to. I’m also intrigued as of late by the number of women defining what makes a man lately. Perhaps that is another issue for another day.

    1. "It is annoying that women pick and choose what they want a man to do for them and not do for them as if dating is a relationship menu that only they are privy to."

      Dog.. that is how I feel. I am your boyfriend. Not your personal errand boy.

  18. Chilvalry this, chivalry that. The word doesn't even register in my daily vocabulary. A lot of things that were done under that umbrella, I just chalk up to a man being a Gentleman in these modern days. I think what a lot of guys have a problem with is the expectation that they should do x,y,z because someone's a woman. My lil bro tried to pull that card last week at church. I gave him a mini lecture because he didn't hold the door open for a woman properly, and he said he shouldn't have to just because she's a woman (FTR, he did a half-assed job of it, as opposed to not making an attempt at all. If she wasn't paying attention, it might've ended up hitting her as she completed her exit). I told him straight up that even though I want to see him be a gentleman, the bigger issue was that she'd held the door open for his mother, him, and me, and it was the least he could do to return the favour. At the end church, he decided to be a gentleman and he'd the door open for what ended up being a long stream of people – men and women alike. I thought he'd be upset with me for getting him in that situation, but he caught up to us with a smile and said that he'd just heard more thank yous in two minutes than he'd heard in entire months.

    Honestly, I don't expect anything from men but for them to be courteous. For some, it means doing certain things because I'm a woman (their personal definition, not mine; courtesy is impartial to sex, to a large degree). They might make more of an effort to open a door for me than they would for their fellow man. I'm fine with that. I'm appreciative of it, and show as much. I'm not someone you'd mistake for being weak or disadvantaged, even in 5" heels. On the flipside, I open doors for men all the time. Men and women. I offer my seat to pregnant women and elder individuals. I even do it for women who have little kids but are themselves perfectly able-bodied. It's the way I am. When I see guys who do these things, it puts a smile on my face. The only thing I don't compromise on is respect. Everything else is a matter of pleasant extras. Make no mistake about it, though, the gentleman gets serious points and the upper hand. And anyone who tries can miss me with the gentleman=simp conclusions.

    1. "Honestly, I don't expect anything from men but for them to be courteous. For some, it means doing certain things because I'm a woman (their personal definition, not mine; courtesy is impartial to sex, to a large degree). They might make more of an effort to open a door for me than they would for their fellow man. I'm fine with that. I'm appreciative of it, and show as much. I'm not someone you'd mistake for being weak or disadvantaged, even in 5" heels. On the flipside, I open doors for men all the time. Men and women. I offer my seat to pregnant women and elder individuals. I even do it for women who have little kids but are themselves perfectly able-bodied. It's the way I am. When I see guys who do these things, it puts a smile on my face. The only thing I don't compromise on is respect. Everything else is a matter of pleasant extras. Make no mistake about it, though, the gentleman gets serious points and the upper hand. And anyone who tries can miss me with the gentleman=simp conclusions."

      I agree with this. I hold doors open for people (men and women) and I dislike it when I'm opening a door to walk out and a person (man or women but men do this mostly) rushes in instead of waiting for me to exit. It simply appears that you don't have manners. At some point, it's not even about gender.

    2. "I thought he'd be upset with me for getting him in that situation, but he caught up to us with a smile and said that he'd just heard more thank yous in two minutes than he'd heard in entire months."

      I have two 'door opening' sons (10 &12). They seem to enjoy the attention they receive as 2 well-behaved gentlemen. This is why for the life of me I dont understand why it seems to bother men so much. Maybe when they get older this will change and they will make sure a woman is not too independent before opening a door.

      1. I think most people who have a problem with it never quite got with the program from a young age. They may have done it, but grudgingly so. Unless they come across some really unpleasant or ill-mannered people, I doubt your sons will show much deviation from that. At some point, it becomes internalized and the benefits they derive from it are both intrinsic and extrinsic.

    3. I am completely agree with this. Men should be gentlemen and nice to other people just for the sake of helping another human.

      I actually loved the story and how you broke down the error in his ways too.

      1. They definitely should. Gentlemen are courteous to each other as well, not just to women. And yeah, I'm kind of glad I did that instead of just rolling my eyes at him.

  19. Chivalry in my home gets him all his desires met and then some. That's what chivalry is about….stroking my ego , so I can stroke yours. I appreciate a Gentle Man being delicate and with me. I love feeling as seeing a man do his best in trying to woo me.

    I was raised in Alabama. For most of the brothers there, being a gentle man is second nature. They don't feel taken advantage of because they pulled a chair out for a sister. That's the real issue here. Some brothers are so caught up in trying to not be "got" that they fail to let their guards down. If I am your woman or you are at least potentially trying to date me, why not do things for me you would normally do for the women in your family. Your mother is not dependent on you, but you would do any and everything to keep her happy right?

  20. Here we go again. *smh*

    Ya’ll really need to introduce me to these women who DO NOT embrace the act of chivalry… Like for real for real!!! WDDTA??!!

    As for me, I choose to live in both worlds — Independency and Co-dependeny.

    Chivalry ISN’T Dead…. Some of you ninjas just can’t step up to the plate!!!

    #TeamDamselinDistressAllDay

    1. I gotta agree with you, I have yet to meet a women bold enough to not let me open a door or pay for dinner….sheeeeeit I be wondering when the hell she gone pay..lol

        1. So WIM you saying that you've actually held a door open for a woman or shown some other form of a chivalrous act and she was either upset, offended or just unappreciative of it?

          I'm really having a hard time wrapping my brain around this because ya'll making it seem as if women are snatching chairs out of your hands when you pull it out, digging her heel into your foot while you are holding the door, mean muggin and eye rolling when you offer some kind of assistance.

        2. That's exactly what I'm saying. lol

          Just like the pic in this blog, I've opened doors for a woman – more than once – only to have her say "I can get my own door." I've pulled chairs back and heard "I can get my own chair." And yes, sometimes there is "mean muggin and eye rolling when you offer some kind of assitance" because a number of women automatically assume that if a man is generally being nice to them it obviously means he secretly wants to have xes with you.

          One of my X's didnt like (hated actually) when I opened doors for her and/or paid for dinner, especially in the beginning. She said it made her feel weak.

          I think us men are simply saying that not all women think the same. Honestly, not all women want chivalrous men – not in a bad way but in a "I can do for self" way, so we really never know which woman is which. But, if anyone is killing chivalry, it is your fellow sisters in arms. Maybe yall should have a meeting.

        3. What percentage of the women that you are opening doors for reject your chivalrous actions. Cause I just cant see it being a large portion and you shouldnt change your policy based on a few unappreciative women.

        4. I just feel like the wrong people are getting together, lol. I mean, clearly I can open my own doors and pull out my own chairs. But I can totally appreciate that you have good manners. To me, that is an endearing quality. I actually had a boyfriend attempt to rush ahead and open a door that I was already reaching for and broke 3 of my nails in the process. That's a bit much, but I didn't go off on dude, like, "I got this sh*t! I don't need you." Smh @ those women.
          Please, please, PLEASE WIM. Don't stop being chivalrous.

        5. Shaking my head at those bitter birds!!!

          Don't stop being chivalrous due to a few ungrateful women WIM, because like you said and it's the truth NOT ALL women act or think this way, I for sure don't. In the future if and when you do come across another "I can get my own door" breeds just let the door go immediately hopefully hitting her in her grill or azz. #ThatisAll

        6. Another enlightening vocab word

          NAWALT – Not All Women Are Like That… But way too many are (80% of the women who are worth fcuking…) … This is something I want traditional women don't seem to realize…

          I don't ask women to agree… I just want y'all to understand… which GirlSixx you do very well…

          Women took chivalry for granted & here we are…

        7. Maybe its a NY thing..the women here have no qualms abt chivalry, they love it, because its a rarity i guess?….granted you have to beat them in the head just to get their attention, but thats another post for another day..lol

      1. @GirlSixx… I think the difference is that "chivalry" (as defined on SBM) is nice, but not expected. Maybe it's because i'm from California, but I never make a dude pay for the first date. It's literally a struggle. I just say: "Hey let's split it?" or "Ok, you wanna buy dinner? Well then let me get dessert, it's only fair".
        @Mr. SD: I look at it this way, we're in a recession. If I want to go out to eat, with a date or without, then I have to be able to afford it. If you invite me out, I assume that you can at least pay for your half. It's when you offer to open doors or pay the check that I think you really like me, especially I earnestly offer to pay for me. The second date though, i assume that you will be paying (even though I come prepared). And then I plan something nice for the 3rd date, that's all my treat.

        My recent post I’ve been loving you too long

        1. Tef you crazy!!!!! But I totally understand your sentiments

          lol

          But I don't like this word "make" you can't make someone do ANYTHING they don't want to, now you can nicely ask or suggest.

          First Date – Men Pay. That's what I know it to be.

        2. I meant to say "That's how I know it to be" o___o Does that sound any better?

          Eff it, I'm tired and my liver hurts.

        3. lol, I would suggest you not hold on too strongly to the idea that a guy really likes you because of those reasons listed. Some guys were simply brought up that way. Some believe it's an easy way to get brownie points. Oh, and I'd feel safe saying that a lot of guys would prefer to cover the first date, and then see you trying to either go dutch on, or cover the second one.

          Personally, if I insist on covering the first date, it's my way of driving home the point that it's more like a meal shared with a friend or an acquaintance…even though I generally don't have a problem bringing out my wallet.

  21. I think its funny when I hear men say women aren't consistent. NO ONE is. Everyone wants the best of both worlds! As for me, I don't want to be treated as equal to men. I want to be treated better 🙂 And gentleman always have and always will, have my heart. Open my door, speak the truth gently, protect and cover me and well sir………..*in my TI voice* You can have whatever you like!

  22. This is as good a post as ever to delurk after getting married so lets go…

    First off chivalry isn’t gender specific…to be more exact chivalrous acts aren’t gender specific. Chivalry somewhat is tied to knighthood and guess what, there were female Knights.

    Aa far as today goes most things that are considered chivalrous are basic manners. But I’m from Alabama and we are a different breed. But back to the post, the easiest way to turn a guy off is to say how much you don’t need him. Trust, we don’t want a woman that can’t hold her own but we want to feel like we have a place in your life.

    1. First off…Congratulations! Wishing you much love, happiness and mini-Animates.

      Secondly, this:

      "Trust, we don't want a woman that can't hold her own but we want to feel like we have a place in your life."

      Is ev-er-ee-thing. Glad to see we still got some men around here.

    2. Congrats!!!! (Am I the only one to notice that only the women are congratulating him though…?) LoL

      Also love your comment! Every last word! All the best on your union!

  23. I don't think a man HAS to do any of these things either. But what stands out to me is a guy who knows he doesn't have to, but he does them anyway.

    I love it when a man realizes that he is, biologically speaking, the stronger sex and doesn't mind giving up his seat to a lady. Even if she is able-bodied and worked the same number of hours that he did, he was physically designed to endure it better than she was. A gentleman takes this into consideration. Not to get religious, but I think God takes these acts of kindness into consideration as well.

    There's something special about a guy who realizes that just because a woman doesn't technically need him to do anything for her anymore, she still appreciates him doing things for her anyway. Guys who open doors, offer their jackets in the cold, and are overall courteous just stand out and women take note of that, especially these days because we've been conditioned to no longer expect such treatments.

      1. Lol I agree Malik. I think people interpret the Bible differently and will infer it to mean whatever they please, if they make their minds up to do so. I certainly wouldn't refer to the Bible as a resource for non-religious discussions.

        I'll specify that my comment above is intended for readers who typically believe that God approves and blesses acts of kindness.

    1. "There's something special about a guy who realizes that just because a woman doesn't technically need him to do anything for her anymore, she still appreciates him doing things for her anyway."

      Hmmm, I'm not sure about that last part. I think it would be more accurate to say women expect men to do these chilvarous acts for her and she is offended when he does not.

      O, and I'm still not giving up my seat to no able-bodied woman. I can only speak for self. My recent post Bloggers Burden

      1. Depends. If it's a stranger, I don't necessarily expect them to hold the door open for me or offer me his seat & I'm not offended when they don't. I am grateful when they do.

        When it comes to a guy I'm dating, at my age I have to consider our future. Manners are important to me, and if I have children I want them to have the same values. I can't get serious with the kind of guy who can in good conscience keep his seat while a woman is standing. I want my son to be the kind of man who offers his seat to a lady, so he needs to have a dad who behaves the same way.

        Not saying I wouldn't date a guy who wasn't "chilvarous" but I wouldn't get serious with him.

  24. Perhaps men should make up their mind, everyday I hear about men wanting a woman that cooks, cleans, works, takes care of her children/man, is a lady in the street but a freak in the sheets…thats alot of roles and expectations…yet when it comes down to you guys being a gentleman and respecting a lady, thats asking for too much? Seems like its men that want their cake and to eat it too. You guys want us to fulfill all these roles and still get out of treating us like a lady under the excuse of "independent women don't need/deserve that treatment"
    My recent post MsFemmeFatale82: I can't do these late nights anymore 🙁

  25. It seems more of a hassle to open a door if the person isnt DIRECTLY behind you, they have to speed up their walk to not look inconsiderate… just let it slam b, everybody cool. Nobody is offended, im definitely not about to change my slow bop up just get in the door

  26. I love being a wife, mother but I am at the end of the day A WOMAN. For me, that means many things. I can do many things as well, however the things I am designed to do are not equal to what men are designed to do. I respect those differences. I also respect our similarities. I also understand that those similarities do not take away from what my duties are as a woman. Yes, I know some of those duties can be done by men.

    What bothers me is, today's some brothers' resume are very short compared to that of the sisters. Most of the sisters wear many hats (wife, mother, employee, cook, sex goddess, doctor, mediator, human calendars, etc). SO if I have to do all that and then some, can I at least get my chair pulled out, because a sister is TIRED after doing all that! For the HELP that your woman (mother, sister, aunt, girlfriend, wife, supervisor, etc) gives you….the least you can do is lighten her load with small gestures of appreciation. That's what REAL CHIVALRY is about—appreciation for the load of a REAL WOMAN.

    IS this too much to expect? I shouldn't HAVE TO ask either. It should be known the balance women bring to this world…stop fighting that and RESPECT it. I respect the pressures and task of being a man, so can I get the same. Some men down play women too much, it's almost like you don't understand our worth or even care to. SMH. For the few bad apples that make being a woman hard…don't punish the rest of us. Treat us as the Queens, and more likely than not, it will be reciprocated.

  27. Most women still value traditional gender roles. We may be independent as far as careers go, but a woman still wants to be treated like a lady by her man. In the world, in the workplace, our gender has to take a backseat. But it's still a big part of who we are. Chivalry in the relationship gives us a moment to exhale and feel like a woman. Most of us are living the independent lifestyles that were handed down to us. We enjoy most of it, but we wouldn't have exactly planned it this way. I wrote a two part series on this a while back: The Death of the Gentleman http://wp.me/pOdcx-3E and The Lady Who Killed Him http://wp.me/pOdcx-3I
    My recent post Change is Good – Except on Facebook and in Love

    1. Right! I'm still trying to figure out why its a problem if I choose to pursue a career and provide for myself instead of waiting around with my life in shambles for a man to save me, all the while expecting the man that chooses to pursue me to treat me like a lady instead of one of his boys. I have no problem making sure my man is greeted with a smile, has a homecooked meal, and doing a miriad of other womanly duties, so why do men get all up in arms about a woman enjoying when a man pulls out her chair, opens the door, and pays for our nights out? And on top of that, you don't have her digging in your pockets to pay for her other expenses like her rent, hair, nails, etc?? Sounds like a good deal to me.

      For those guys who are up here complaining about the women who DON'T like these things, or the ones who want to pick and choose…um, maybe you should just leave her silly ass alone. Isn't that what you guys preach to us (women) when we complain about men that don't treat her the way she wants to be treated?

      1. Right! "And on top of that, you don't have her digging in your pockets to pay for her other expenses like her rent, hair, nails, etc?? Sounds like a good deal to me." –> sounds like a GREAT deal to me.

  28. I use to be anti-chivalry when I was younger but I've turned around. If you dig up my comments from the early days of SBM you can see where I stood. lol. I still believe chivalry was women's consolation prize for being 2nd class citizens. I don't believe chivalry=manners. Chivalry and manners are two different things. I don't see women pull out chairs for men, lay their coats over puddles for men to walk over, etc. If chivalry is just plain ol' manners then this wouldn't be an expectation of men to do this toward women. It would be gender neutral.

    I would be or am chivalrous to a women I deal with. This is all within reason. I'm not laying my coat down for you to walk over a puddle or doing all that extra ish. I think dudes that OD on the chivalry are pandering for panties. One thing that never gets stated is how women kill chivalry by acting like it's a man's "job" to be chivalrous. Who wants to be chivalrous if it's treated as a job and not something appreciated?

    1. "Chivalry is a special form of graciousness and like all acts of graciousness must be a gift freely given; the instant you think of it as an obligation you have destroyed the very concept.”

      A line I read somewhere else.

    2. "I think dudes that OD on the chivalry are pandering for panties."

      And what do you consider OD'ing?

      Women aren't the only ones killing Chivalry, you men are as well because you guys are so worried about how it would look to your peers, you worried about your image.

      1. @GirlSixx

        "And what do you consider OD'ing?"

        When I see you are more chivalrous to a woman you're trying to bone or dating than your own mother. This is not an exaggeration. I've seen it a few times.

    3. We should all remember, that there is an ART to showing appreciation.

      And many women (read: black women) have lost their art history books.

  29. Why should a woman have to trade the right to vote, make reproductive choices, and be paid equally for doing the same job for chivalry? A gentleman is a gentleman is a gentleman, and who ever wrote this is obviously NOT a gentleman.

    If you were a gentleman, why would you change who you are because a few butch females didn't appreciate it, or didn't want you to treat them like a lady?? This is hogwash! It's a cop-out and part of the reason why I don't date young guys.
    My recent post Big Love, Big Pain

  30. It's funny. I subcribe to a few blogs out here and follow a couple of people on twitter and I don't know if it's just me but it seems to me like a lot of these male bloggers come into contact with the worst of the female species ever! Where do y'all hang out? Some of the women you consistently describe, I have yet to come into contact with. Do you exaggerate, you know, just for entertainment sake or are these the usual group of people you interact with on a daily basis?

    I say all to say this, chivalry (or let's just really call it what it is, good manners) isn't dead at all. I come into contact with it EVERYDAY, from random gentleman and I don't live in no southern city. It's just the real chivalrous men are not as loud as their other counterparts.

  31. Well I'll be…if this isn't one of the most ridiculous posts (& ensuing comment threads) I've read…

    SMH. What is SO wrong with being a gentleman!?!? SO WHAT women are trying to be independent and capable of standing on their own 2 feet (on the train)? That gives men the power to give women an ultimatum??? GTFOH. For real. 1) Your mother should have raised you men better than that. What is up with this "generational" crap. I'd argue that NOT being chivalrous is the new social construct. 2) Women should be more appreciative that some men still want to cater to and care for us. …oh the number of times I've heard women complain about anti-chivalrous men!!!!!!

  32. This is not about having cake and eating it too, & it is SO ridiculously sad hearing people say that it is. It's about adjusting to the modern world – a world in which, no, women are not weak because they have been given the opportunities to prove that they aren't. That doesn't mean they shouldnt be treated with kindness and consideration, or even reverence – they still birth your babies dammit! Nah, she aint barefoot and helpless, but she is still something to behold and be cherished. & I do not believe that women no longer want to pampered & thought of – it's in our genes. Out in the world we all have to be strong if we expect to bring home bacon & cheddar to improve our situations. We should be able to come "home" and be vulnerable and loved, appreciated…

  33. This whole perspective is just whack. I'm sorry. Can't feel it. I will be a dual graduate degree touting independent woman in 9 short months. In 2011 we all (men & women) have to pave our own way because there is no excuse and there are no handouts. Why should this dictate our interpersonal relationships? Women are still commonly expected to cater to their men – cook, launder, clean house, nurture babes. & while plenty of you men do these things as well these days, please lie to me & tell me that if your women didn't you wouldn't complain.

    I wish people would spend more time being loving and kind and ,yes, even "CHIVALROUS" instead of complaining and discussing all the ways in which it's unfair or burdensome or dead. It's not that difficult… & in a world in which marriages are failing at an increasingly alarming rate, I think we should all think long and hard about our approach to interpersonal relationships. Is it really that hard to pamper each other (and I'm asking both men and women)? What the hell are we really complaining about? Give and you shall deserve… & maybe you shall recieve.

    1. The Btich

      You & KatWebb are overlooking how important male protection, male investment, & the provider / father (it needs to be put in the same league as a male traditional roles) a role that is *missing* from alot of modern black families today… Maybe because single motherhood is the norm in the black community for several generations now… And women are a bigger reason for that, than the men are…

      As Malik so eloquently said somewhere "Men initiate Marriage, Women initiate divorce"… Ask the women why the marriages are ending… And if you want to cite cheating, rape & abuse… Show me a stat where this is the case…

      The only thing holding a large percentage (black) women afloat right now, is BIG GOVERNMENT with their The Welfare State… Which will soon either get cut by the republicans, or will just crumble under or ever rising 14+ trillion dollar rising debt…

      Men are only noticed when they are NOT doing something, and not appreciated when they are… And that is why men like me will continue to wake up & start treating women really the way they want to be treated…

      1. Just curious…do you have any stats that say women are the key initiators of divorce? Not to include the cases of cheating, rape and abuse of course…

    2. "It's not that difficult… & in a world in which marriages are failing at an increasingly alarming rate…"

      Well, technically from a relative standpoint, the national per capita divorce rate has declined steadily since its peak in 1981 and is now at its lowest level since 1970. But to be fair it's still higher than it was in the 1950's.

      "…while plenty of you men do these things as well these days, please lie to me & tell me that if your women didn't you wouldn't complain. "

      I guess I'll "lie" to you, but no I wouldn't complain. I'm sort of particular about certain things, so It'd probably be more difficult for me to let her do those things if she wanted to in all honesty. I'm all for compromise, though and establishing roles. Whatever keeps the peace. But hey, that's just me. Maybe I'm the exception…not the rule. *shrugs*

  34. I just think it's common courtesy for a man to hold the door open, etc. It's either in them to be courteous to the opposite sex or not. It has nothing to do with chivalry and shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not I can take care of myself. If I'm not married, I shouldn't be dependent on a man to take care of me, so thus, I will be labeled as independent.
    My recent post Tempestuous Tales by Kandie Delley

  35. I think almost everyone wants things the way they "were" AND the way they "are" now too.

    But a hell of a lot of couples need 2 incomes to survive…so thank God the liberation movement brought hiring discrimination and equal pay issues for women to the forefront.

    Yeah, back in the day, women cooked for men each meal each day, but men fixed the car and did all the handiwork around the house.

    In general, does any of that ish still happen??? Actually, I know a lot more women still cooking than guys that are able to do half the stuff my dad did.

    But anyway, yeah some guys think they aren't required to open doors and pay for meals or do other chivalrous things. That's fine with me…let those particular guys think that. I have no interest in that mindset.

    Im glad that with the costs of living ever rising that at least I can demand a job I'm qualified for, get equal pay (hypothetically). And if I end up in a horrible or abusive relationship, I have less economic impediments when deciding to leave. (economic reasons being one of the #1 reasons women stay/stayed in abusive relationships). And, as my much much older and long-time married mother says, the major change from back in the day to today is that women don't have to STAY in bad situations/relationships nowadays.

    If we turned back time, I think many people would think the sacrifice of chivalry from a few guys that don't want to give a "free/liberated" woman their seat was worth the rights gained.

    Now, as a woman, I can have have my door opened, my drink bought, and still have increased salary and chance at presidency. And this doesn't take away anything from a man that knows and is confident in his worth.

  36. Men, please think about your expectations of women before talking about their expectations of you. I could probably go on for days about all the cakes you are all eating too. Maybe we're just cought up in semantics. Maybe the term "chivarly" should be deaded, but proofs of love and tokens of selflessnes should never be withheld. Give & give freely loves.

    Ohhh this is so sad. But it's just one Btich's opinion.

  37. "not "taking care of the weaker gender" – maybe that was the original perception, but that's not how I interpret it now"

    As shamira said, I think this is the source of confusion for many. Chivalry as it was it in the days of your great grandparents need not be the exact same today. Even though we're using the same word, adaptation to fit the norms of today is essential. To me chivalry and being gentlemanly are one and the same.

    Personally, I don't feel entitled to these acts of kindness/consideration, these are just some of the basic indicators that I use to distinguish the chaff from the wholesome wheat. This isn't even just for dating purposes, it extends as far as determining what kind of father you'll be; it'll be hard to teach a little boy/girl to respect and treat people accordingly if you're having a hard time with the concept yourself.
    My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

    1. Being respectful and a gentleman is regardless of sex. People should treat people well and help each other out if given the chance.

      Me buying dinner all the time, opening your car door, and getting up out of my seat on the bus although your 4 years younger is preferential treatment just because your a woman … and that is what I call Chivalry and that is what I can't support.

        1. Why is it being considerate? Your not pregnant or elderly. Your capable of standing up just as well as I can. So … I'm lost.

          As stated before, you got a bad of groceries or cans that are heavy … I'll help you out. Big bad of trash. sure. But I'm gonna enjoy my bus seat stranger.

        2. "You're capable of standing up just as well as I can. So … I'm lost."

          Right, except for the teeny little fact that you were built to have a higher stamina/strength than she does. To be honest, I get why you find the idea of giving up your seat so absurd….afterall you're tired too, but that's exactly what makes it the nice/considerate/chivalrous thing to do. There are times when people have offered me their seats and I declined(while at the same time expressing profuse gratitude) because I was truly ok standing – but there are other times when someone offering their seat meant the difference between level 7 and level 3 back pain.

          The truth is: not offering/giving up your seat doesn't make you a bad person – I would just have a higher regard/more respect for someone who did.
          My recent post Race – an illegitimate concept.

  38. So I've learned a lot from this post:

    1) Manners are for losers/simps.
    2) I have a job and my own place, thus I do not deserve a gentleman
    3) You men would respect me way more if quit my job and laid on my back all day. This warrants a drink being bought for me.
    4) It is unacceptable for a woman to have both freedom and have her doors opened for her. She must "choose one."
    5) Chivalry should only apply to gold diggers who are capable of taking care of themselves but would rather a man did.

    Did I miss anything? *jumps off the Verrazano Bridge*

    1. *sigh*

      I can't spend all day restating what I wrote, but pretty sure I said Chivalry is dead, not being a gentleman. When you understand the difference (Gentlemen are gentle to everybody) … it might all make sense.

      1. *sigh* pretty sure I can read…

        "So to my women, I implore you … pick one. You can have the freedom, the increased salary, and the open possibility for a female president … or you can have your car door opened, your drink bought for you, and stay in the house cooking and cleaning all day … not both. I’ll still get your door, and I got the bill on the first date … but no mas."

        Freedom or doors opened. Or is that not what you wrote…?

      2. Let me be a bit more clear. Chivalry in its purest form references the Middle Ages, when knights were running around. Since there are no knights still around to my knowledge, I think its safe to say that the use of "chivalry" as it applies to present day would most closely resemble qualities of a gentleman. Some of the things which you seem to regard as chivalrous, I was taught (and it seems some others here as well) by my father are common characteristics of a gentleman. I suppose maybe this falls back on upbringing though…

        1. Let ME be clear: Chivalry, in its purest form, refers to an ancient warrior code for men of the nobility. The concept is an idea for conduct (i.e. a code) based on an older idealized German concept/code (the word itself is based on a French term [chevalier] meaning horse SOLDIERY). It emphasized gallantry (bravery in combat), individual martial training and service to others. In essence, chivalry refers to a concept that said men where disposable and women were perishable (ex: male suicide — statistics; female suicide — tragedy).

          OVER TIME, the knightly virtues of gentlemanly courtship, courtesy, and other less martial aspects of behavior associated with this term were developed.

          The moral code of the knight called upon knights to defend the weak and the defenseless; every knight was expected to develop the courage and skills to fight in religious wars — i.e. indispensability through war. Knights were expected to keep the honor of women, keep the honor of their fellow knights, develop strength, fighting skill, and bravery, and could NOT turn down a challenge from an equal. Knights feared and respected God, always finished what they started, and lived and died for honor and glory.

          Yes, gentlemanly codes of conduct (basically knightly courtship) were developed as an extension of conduct with women from what is known as chivalry. HOWEVER, chivalry and knightly morals encompassed much more than courtship and defending the honor and safety of women. It was a system devised to create a class of noble (aristocratic) warriors whose purpose would be to fight religious wars.

  39. I respect the authors opinion, but in my opinion, men who think chivalry dead WANT it to be dead, and that scare me lol, and honestly turns me waaaay off. This post can't be real life! lol.

    But, to each his or her own. If you examine the origin of the word, chivalry refers to the system, spirit, qualities or customs of medieval knighthood. I guess that's where the phrase 'knight in shining armor' came from. It was honorable to behave that way and that alone should be enough for a man to want to let it live on. What's the harm in it? If a woman doesn't want you to open a door for her and gives you attitude, it's not an excuse to say f** it and procede to never do something again that you obviously thought at one time was a good deed. If you never have been chivalrous, ok, but to stop for that reason doesn't make sense to me. There are plenty of acts of kindess we've had rejected. It's just life.

  40. And, I hate when the sexes generalize about eachother. "You can have the freedom, the increased salary, and the open possibility for a female president … or you can have your car door opened, your drink bought for you, and stay in the house cooking and cleaning all day." HUH? That right there is an icky thing to say. And the truth of the matter is that we can have both, and we DO have both 24/7 and the world has not imploded. YOU mad? The women's lib movement did fostered the shift, and the consequences have been intense, but it was NEEDED. Women use to be comdemmed for wanting to wear pants on a cold f*** day. Who wouldn't rebel from that? 🙂

  41. Chivalry turns me on. I think it speaks to a subconcious, animalistic nature that has a primal need to be protected by a man. Mainly because, I am physically weaker than most, if not all men. So feats of strength, even in the most subtle of settings can cue a response in my brain of "oh, this guy is demonstrating that he can protect me. He so skrong lol."

    It's not that I can't open the door for myself, but when a guy does it for me I am reminded that I'm a female, he is a male and then I think of sex, ONE of the ultimate goals for a male/female relationship whether for emotional/spiritual connection, reproduction purposes, physical release, etc.

    And maybe as humans evolve, our subconcious thought processes will adjust to what is no longer needed. Maybe, one day we will evolve to not needing the chemical oxytocin to be released at orgasm or childbirth. But these are set up for the purpose of bonding and the feelings of attachment and love. Without which, sounds like devolution to me.

  42. There isn’t really anything I can add here but I have a question about doors. Most doors are automatic these days so it doesn’t happen often but when there are two sets of doors and a man has already opened the first door what is expected of a woman on the second door? I would hold it open for the dude who just held the first door for me but I’ve gotten smirks and remarks because of this. “You’re supposed to let me do that” and things of that nature. So am I supposed to just stand there and wait for him to open the other one? I’ve done that too and it just feels silly. I’m not a princess. Is chivalry or courtesy something you’re supposed to “let” somebody do? Same thing has happened with drinks at the club like “you’re supposed to let me offer to pay for that.” Wouldn’t that be presumptuous or am I uncouth?

    1. Usually I run into double doors at restaurants – and in that case hubby holds the first door and the host/hostess opens the second one. If not I open it and walk through first while hubby grabs the door kinda over my head. I feel silly waiting at the second door too.

      1. That’s how we normally do too but I’m talking about if I went somewhere by myself. Just a random gentleman opening the door for a random lady.

        1. Been there a million times.
          I get the first door.
          You walk through, open the second door and WALK through. Don't hold it open for me to walk first, unless I am so old man. Than just leave it pop for a ninja.

        2. Okay thanks. And what about the drink thing? I feel weird letting a guy pay for my drink. I always make sure they know I'm married and I keep my ring in plain sight. But what then? Do I turn down a free drink just because of that? Or is the polite thing to do just to let him pay since he offered? Is that a master simp move? I've only been to the club a few times so I really don't know this.

        3. We know you are much more a gentleman than you let on.

          And really, the good feeling of having a man wait a sec and hold a door open puts a little extra pep in her step, if you know what I mean.

  43. It's like the point this post and men are trying to make is disjoint from how women are taking it.

    It's simple. We (men) WANT to be able to do all that we can to make your lives easier and happy. HOWEVER, we don't appreciate manipulation of our will to provide and give. Let me restate it: Too many women will manipulate a man's will to provide/give. That's messed up… Every guy would lash out at that b/c it IS messed up to be manipulated in that manner from someone who we think cares for us. And no… You are NOT entitled to anything but respect. "special treatment" is indeed special. True, you would LIKE special treatment, but entitled to it. No. I have the freedom to do or not do. True, you may feel strongly about someone giving you special treatment b/c it feels so good. But entitled, you are not. Get over it. And in this world where ever woman thinks they are the exception. nawl… 100% are not the exception. Even is we SAY you're entitled we mean (translation): I feel so compelled to do the most just to see you smile b/c I like you like THAT. That is ALL.

    Even if EVERY man on Earth said "Chivalry is dead," we will STILL do those sweet/nice things simply b/c we like you. To manipulate that desire and turn it into some monolithic entitlement drains it and us (men) of the beauty of such a gift. Ya'll miss me with this monetary comparison of "who spends more." Eff that… I've been labeled "gentlemen" plenty of times without spending a dime, opening any doors or destroying any of my jackets (mofos do this? not I. Walk around that ho3…). Treating someone nicely has little to to with what you do, and more to do with how you make them feel. Every woman doesn't care about pulling out a chair, some just don't want to hear you talk like a sailor around them or some (all?) like it when you offer to help wash their hair or sing to them. Who knows…

    It comes downs to this… If a man AND a woman likes each other both will appreciate it when things are done for them. That itemized list of "things done" could be anything from "traditional" exercises to agreeing to a set schedule for oral s3xing. Who knows.. who cares…

    I have yet to experience a woman flipping out on me for being nice to her. Notice I didn't say "chivalrous." That word is abused and hence people miss the point. When a woman likes you, I promise every nice thing you do is basically "above and beyond." B/c that's what nice is… Oh. Hence, women are taking it that men are saying we won't go out our way to do things for them out of genuinely showing interest. That is not what we are saying. Oh… We are saying a a watched pot doesn't boil, then don't get mad at the pot not boiling then treated to get a new pot.

    Moral: Don't abuse or take for granted the things someone who cares about you does and you're good. I promise. Be aware that if you manipulate the desire/will to give of someone, don't be surprised when they stop giving. And what is the best way to take something for granted? To act entitled to it.
    My recent post How to implement an OODBMS (pt. 1)

    1. Women think that male protection, kindness, investment is a given , & that is why they sh!t on men without missing a beat…

      Today's 20 year old women are in for a rude awakening when they get to their 30s with no man in sight…

      1. I concur…this is one of the realist comments I have read on this blog site. In addition to the comment I say people should do what makes them happy. Whether someone is chivalric or not shouldn't even be an issue. You have a choice….either deal with them or shut up about it. Everyone is different and those differences should be respected.

    2. You know what. I try to be fair when it comes to this male female stuff, but I'm having a really tough time with this chivalry bit. I've always been treated by men in this manner, and its a bit unnerving that the men here have had such bad experiences with women that they don't want to do simple nice things anymore. If you truly have had more negative reactions to chivalry than positive, then I can see why you'd be adverse to it. All I can say is don't give up on the rest of us by being bitter. You may miss your blessing. This just makes everyone a loser.

      1. I was trying to say that most of this is a communication problem. The other half is the bad experiences men have had. I've had a woman be like, "Oh. You have to do [insert traditionally chivalrous act] and if not eff you." Seriously… By that time, I'm too annoyed to do anything out of genuine interest. Maybe its me, but I don't like to be given commands that imply my manhood is in the balance. I would LOVE the chance to organically do whatever for a lady, girlfriend or not. But look, I said organically. Demanding that ish is not cool… And I've learned is that those who demand it will demand it as if you NEVER don't anything for them even if you work your behind off for them. Also, those are the ones who don't seem to know how to express appreciation.
        My recent post How to implement an OODBMS (pt. 1)

  44. I swear I got infants that don't cry this much. For those of you still hemming and hawing about how unfair chivalry is, please put the kleenex away. The solution is simple: don't do it. Don't be chivalrous. At all. Hell, we're in strange times. There's plenty of women who will still get with you. But then don't part your lips to complain about the quality of these women, or that you get shady looks when you blatantly defy common social practices. Stand by your convictions. Hoes got the right to vote, they got the right to pay for your meal or hold the door open for you. Resurrect Al Bundy's old group: No Ma'am!

    Oh, and the next time someone says "Mufasa" make sure you shudder. Actually, some of you already are. "Gentleman?!? That means simp right? RIGHT??!!?"

    1. Don't be chivalrous. At all. Hell, we're in strange times

      Nice… I am glad you get it… More traditional women need to understand what men have to deal with out there…

      1. I do get it, and I know it's hard out here. But my feeling is you either want a woman….or you want to BE a woman. I'm comfortable with my role and my man is comfortable with his. As so many more successful men have said – chivalry, manners, courteousness, whatever – are internal qualities. The behavior of others doesn't change it. So if you run into a few birds who really want to take your head off because you did somethign nice for them, kindly excuse yourself from their presence. That simple. The same way women can try to tell the world they're just "doing them" (but we all are still calling them sluts), men can't tell the world that chivalry isn't needed/wanted (cuz we still know that's a weak kneed, panty wearing punk move). All the anti-chivalry pr in the world isn't going to trump the old ways for most people because chivalry, like chexual discretion, is at it's core a biological issue not a social one.

        1. As so many more successful men have said – chivalry, manners, courteousness, whatever – are internal qualities

          I don't agree with these men, I think you have to teach it to young men & maybe pass it through the genes, I don't think men are hardwired to be chivalrous… Maybe to protect & possess women (in the self-interest of sleeping with her and/or to raise his children)

          So if you run into a few birds who really want to take your head off because you did somethign nice for them, kindly excuse yourself from their presence. That simple.

          Here is where you & Missmina & KatWebb do not realize that these bird women are the majority & the norm… And by being a bird stands for

          attitudinal, confrontational, masculine, whorish, fat, misandristic… These kinds of women (between the ages of 18 – 40) are the norm in the black community & steadily rising in other western communities…

          I know I was birth in the wrong era, but it is what it is…

    2. @Teflon Mom Your entire comment is so on point I had to do a quick praise dance! But THIS right HERE!!!

      "The solution is simple: don't do it. Don't be chivalrous. At all. Hell, we're in strange times. There's plenty of women who will still get with you. But then don't part your lips to complain about the quality of these women, or that you get shady looks when you blatantly defy common social practices."

      WoW! Powerful! Go ahead and let that door (literally) slam in a female's face. But don't be mad when a good woman lets one (figuratively) slam in yours…you should have treated her better.

      1. You know what's funny – that happened to me one time a few years ago. Dude lets the door close on me then tries to holla at the elevator. I hit him with the "you can't be serious right now" and took the stairs.

  45. SBM, it's good to see you are consistent in your views. You said the exact same thing, way back when when you were holding down the site by yourself. Still makes me laugh. LOL!!

    Congrats on the engagement BTW!

    1. Wow, the real blast from the past. Glad to see you still in Houston (I was there bout 3 weeks ago myself).

      Yeah … people (WIM) keep thinking getting married is gonna change me. Nope … still ol' SBM, still holding it down. She understands the dichotomy … so life is good.

  46. Chivalry isn't dead though sometimes i feel it should be. A part of chivalry dying faster is the simple courtesy of a "Thank You" when a person does something that they do not have to. Kindness in American culture is not appreciated as it used to be. From my perspective as a black male from Tennessee doing "chivalrous" things,(opening doors, paying for meals and walking women to their cars[and ensuring the car starts up]) i am accused of trying to "get" at them.

    Its just interesting to look at and you have to find people in that "middle area" that share your values.

  47. Teflon Mom, I love that! Your comment reminds me of when I used to debate white people when they have a problem with blacks identifying as African-American. Or not being able to use the n-word. Or not having white history month. Or not having a channel called white entertainment television. Or not being able to have white pride.

    My response was usually, there are groups you can join, it’s called the KKK or neo nazis. There are shows for white people, they are called gossip girl, friends, Seinfeld, etc. ad infinitum. You CAN use the n-word, but don't be upset when you have to deal with the ramifications from that. Which, where I live, I hear it so much from EVERYBODY you probably won't have to. It's not an exact parallel, but it does remind me of it.

  48. HELL NO!!! It's pretty much alive and I see it everyday on the trains, the buses and even in the malls… Brothers do love their mothers, Sister, nieces and lovers… They open doors, light cigarettes and even pull out chairs… I see it everyday… I love it… STAY UP & BE WELL my brothers…

  49. I see more posts on chivalry than I see "why so-and-so aren't getting married" posts and it's crazy. I feel like women played a big part in the chivalry's Texas funeral. So I wouldn't say it's really "dead". I mean sure we want to be independent but we also want to have the door held open. Some women are extremists and demand one or the other. Ehh *hand wiggle* Just be courteous, fair and what have you to me and we'll get along.
    My recent post An Ode. A Letter to you, Black Men

  50. Hmmm… I am not sure about everyone else, but with the few guys I've dated, chivalry is most definitely NOT dead. They held open doors (one guy always went out of his way to go open a door for someone else), they gave up seats to women who were standing, they made sure that they're on the outside of the sidewalk and the girl is on the inside, and they refused to let a woman pay for anything. I remember asking this one guy several times to let me pay but then I just stopped and have never made mention of it to any other guy since :/… I think it all has to do with upbringing and what these men are taught about respecting and treating a lady. I don't think doing these things is a matter of being chivalrous- it's just something you ought to do (could be my upbringing). You should always want to help others, even when they don't need it. I don't limit these actions to guys, either… I hold doors open, I give up my seat for someone who looks like they need it more than I do, etc.
    My recent post The Power of Giving: Little Ways to Brighten Everyone’s Day

  51. Can I just say this real quick: Cheekz Money has kilt me dead about 5 times today. Did this bamma really say word to Merlin?!?

    flatline

    LOL!!!

  52. I wasn't going to get involved in this conversation, but I liked the way Miss Mina formatted her response by listing the arguments for clarification (I did the same thing on Most's emotionally-unavailable men post). I respect your gangsta!

    Let me sum up what men are saying*.

    1. Women say they are our equals.
    2. Men view this as women being our equals.
    3. Women say they deserve preferential treatment (via chivalry).
    4. Men don't expect this preferential treatment from other men.
    5. Women are now not our equals.

    This does not compute in the mind of a man. We don't pull out chairs and buy roses for our boys. It doesn't make sense that you make as much money as we do, want to be treated as an equal, then say we must pay for the first date.

    (1/2)

    1. (2/2)
      Women are experiencing the law of unintended consequences. You wanted to be our equals? Cool. But realize you changed the game, so men are going to change our strategy on how we play the game. When an NBA team sees their opponent change from one-on-one defense to a zone, you should expect their offense to change. Likewise, you say you're tired from work and expect us to help cook and do laundry, then think we're still supposed to do all the chivalrous acts. No, our offense will change.

      *I'm personally not against chivalry. I don't do some things like opening car doors (you're right there!), but I pay on first dates (if I asked you out), hold doors, buy roses for my girlfriend, etc. But the reason many men shun chivalry is understandable.

  53. Chivalry has NOTHING to do with the woman with whom I am being courteous, or the old lady for whom i’m carrying the bags. It has EVERYTHING to do with what kind of Man I am telling the world that I am. I hold the door open because I take care of and am mindful of her well being, not because she can’t or shouldn’t open her own door. I carry an old person’s bags because I am strong, and I respect and take care of my elders. I am a true Gentleman, not a gentile man, but a real Man who has a high character and does unto others as he would have others do unto him. By doing these things, I am subconsciously telling the world how I am to be treated. I pay for dinner EVERY time we go out because first, i’m a BALLER who can afford to pay for those I deem worthy of my favor, and second, because I am the kind of person that YOU should bend over backwards for when I come calling.

    Just because I do these things for others doesn’t mean that I am depriving them to the opportunity to be independant either. And yes, there are still gender roles because there are still very real differences between men and women, none of which have anything to do with her being “weaker” in any way. So if Chivalry is dead, it’s because the concept of what it is to be a real Man is dead, and we would have nobody to blame but ourselves…

    I’m done…

    SUPREME

    1. Very well said Sir! That comment was supreme (pun intended). Either do it, because it's a part of you, an inherent quality, something you do without thinking about or don't do it, because IT'S NOT WHO YOU ARE. But PLEASE, stop with the excuses and the whining and the constant shouting from the rooftops. It makes you look weak, like a child, who is sulking because his favorite toy has been taken away from him. And really, who wants a man-child paying for their dinner anyway?

  54. "too many women are trying to have their cake and eat it too"…Pot, Hi, i'm Kettle.

    It appears Men of today are just taking a piss. I love you guys but it seems all i've read lately are 'excueses' about ONE MORE THING you all don't/can't/won't do. WHAT EXACTLY IS IT that you all want to do for women?? I mean really…we're talking about opening doors and pulling out chair?? iDie!!

    I open doors or keep them open for people all the time. I definitely don't expect people to open my doors (building or cars) or pull out my chair or whatever else, i have hands. You give your chair to a woman because you're supposed to have stronger backs. We ALL are supposed to give our seats to a pregnant woman/older people for the same reason. You lift heavy boxes cos you're more physically able to do so.
    1/2

  55. 2/2
    Does equality now mean the same ability??

    If a Kneegrow wants to, great.

    If you don't…Then. HELL.DO.NOT!!

    A woman can't be independent and treated with manners?? Prefrential treatment?? If you pay for the first date and i pay for the second am i still a weakling?

    "You are NOT entitled to anything but respect"…Amen to this. This applies to you as a man too. We do all we do for you men and bend over backwards because we want to…because we care…and here uall are crying about opening doors…unbeFlippinglievable!!!

    Look, you don't have to do anyone any favors if you don't want to. All this whining is unbecoming. Ugh!!

    Uall on some next level diarrhea type sh!t

  56. i agree with Hugh Jazz. it's kinda weird when guys treat other guys with respect, as equals.

    but women wish to be equal/be like guys…but when we treat you like guys…it's not right, women have to be treated better than the men that ARE our equals.

    but it's whatever, i practice chivalry as much as i can, not because i want to, but because thems are the rules.
    My recent post kjnetic: #thirded RT @NovaGiovanni: I agree RT @xFlawlessJelena: My mom is such a slut..

  57. I agree completely. I think a lot of feminist women should realize that you don't have to be anti-man just because you are pro-woman

    Love this: Chivalry is part of a traditional gender role system that, while with its problems, kept balance in the universe.

    Althought I do believe gender roles are important, I don't think it's impossible for a woman to be well off in her own career and not be submissive or not be treated with respect just because she is ambitious. That's kinda where you lost me. I think it's all a matter of mentality. Some women don't recognize chivalry and do not acknowledge it because it's not something they are accustomed to. Discussing this with a male friend before, his view was that he does acts of chivalry for women who have respect for themselves and are humble. He also said, playfully though honestly, he can always tell what kind of man her father/grandfather was by the way she treats him. I think that is so true. There are many women who respect themselves, yet carry so much resentment towards men. Many of them have an upbringing of the independent woman myths given to them by single moms. It was a book I read a while ago dealing with this issue and when I think of the title I'll report back. It's a good read in regards to everything discussed here.

    Good post

    1. That is a good point. MANY women are just not accustomed to respectful behavior from men so they react negatively. It is something that is passed down through generations of mothers to daughters. History shows us that African American women have always had to do be just as strong as men plus be feminine, plus be a mother, wife, housekeeper, etc. just to survive.
      My recent post 5 Reasons Men Don't Approach You

  58. I believe coomon courtsey works both ways, opening the door for someone is just simply a common courtsey, if you reach the car first open the door for your mate. There’s nothing wrong with women buying men drinks. Just treat people how you want to be treated.

  59. I have never, nor have I seen any of my friends berate a man for being chivalrous. Maybe it depends on where you live or the type of women you deal with. IMO gallant men are more attractive and any man who lets a door slam in your face is ugly, but maybe that's just me.
    Anyway, Say what you will about chivalry but gentlemen get more a*s. Do what you will with that.

  60. The reality is that chivalry isn't dead for guys fortunate enough to find women who still appreciate AND RESPECT men who choose to treat them like ladies.

    But on the other hand, one of the worst things that we men can do is MISTAKENLY give too much deference to certain women who have NO respect for us, and don't recognize our value as men.

    ~Victory Unlimited

  61. All I gotta say is I have no real problems w/ acts of chivalry.. Real men act a certain way with no questions asked. They were just raised that way. Women should appreciate it more. Just say “Thanks!” 🙂

  62. If you are so poor in confidence that cannot be chivalrous, then you should stay with your kind. Gold Diggers. These types are always counting what they get before they give anything. They operate on a poverty mentality. They have a vision of scarcity. Fist tight. Nothing comes in.

    Do you wonder why you always end up with selfish women?

  63. From the post to the comments, this was entertaining to read. By entertaining, I mean ridiculous. I had to go check the bio of the author to confirm if he was in his teens or his twenties. (No offense) Are we really suggesting to women that they have to choose between equal rights and human rights? lol Hold the door because you were raised with home training towards PEOPLE, not just because you feel it's your duty as a man and my right as a woman. All these chivalrous 'acts' men complain about take all of what….30 SECONDS to do? Really? Pull your skirt down, b. What is so hard about just treating EACH OTHER with respect? We come up with more excuses for our bullshit than solutions for anything. Oh somebody didn't appreciate your niceness? That's life. move on and stop being bitter. It's unfortunate most of the angst here is due to women who don't appreciate men with manners, but to blame this logic on the majority of women YOU have come across is rather silly to me. If you don't like how you've been paying for 100% of dates, expected to do certain things etc., say something. or leave. It's simple. Or find you a woman who doesn't care about you not holding doors and being 'chivalrous.'

  64. I will be chivalrous when women get back in the kitchen and stop competing with men at work and in college.

    Women are truly delusional. Fortunately, men are waking-up.

  65. men try to pick and choose the best of each role just as much as women do. they want u to work, share the bills, but also do most of the real work in raising children and around the house. they want you to carry the same responsibility but still let them call the shots because theyre “the man”. they want you to succeed in multiple roles – being successful in career, look like a King model, be a freak in the bedroom, AND a supermom. meanwhile, they only think they have to have a successful career and do the easier, more fun parts of parenting (usually thinking they deserve a medal if they take their child to chucky cheese once a week and pay child support, not that the woman doesnt ALSO work to pay bills on top of the majority of the parenting work.)

  66. The comic strip covers half of it, but the other half is that chivalry is not being enforced I remember When I was getting on the bus it was really packed and this older gentlemen gave his seat up for me and while I was about to sit down and a young boy came and sat down in my seat and the old head went in on him and made him get up and told me to sit down lol!! that young buck learned that behavior. To sum it up women need to chill out with the feminist stuff and let a man execute that good etiquette and people need to teach it to the males…Just saying

  67. I have men do chivalrous things for me all the time. I have grown to expect it like second nature. I always assumed men liked doing things to help women because it made them feel like strong, protective men and, it makes me feel more feminine. I mean come on you don't literally have to protect us from wild animals anymore or provide for us financially even but I think its still a biological thing where males want to protect and provide for their women and children.

    There are some men who are threatened by the fact that they are expected to provide and protect women because they are afraid of rejection and failure. Women now technically don't need men other than for companionship and sex. With society still telling us that providing and protecting for one's family is the epitome of manhood some may be so intimidated that they reject that ideology.

    One last thought. I seriously think that some men are upset with the power that women have lol "why do I have to do all of this for women and that too!" "why can't women do this for me?" It's like yal are pissed you have to do so much to keep us satisfied but you can't leave without us!
    My recent post 5 Reasons Men Don't Approach You

  68. Dear SBM,

    I appreciate your writing so much. I am married to a faithful reader of your blog (a reader since before we got married) and occasionally I try to keep up also.

    On this particular issue (chivalry) I think there is more to be considered perhaps through a different lens. The article seems to address 1) chivalry toward a woman who is a perfect stranger simply because she is a woman and 2) chivalry toward a romantic interest. My response is concerning chivalry with romantic intent.

    It was once explained to me (in the South by a Southern-born person) that men are 'on duty' when the couple is outside of the home, and in contrast, women are 'on duty' when the couple is inside the home. Of course this generalization fits best with the (mostly outdated) model you pointed out in your article as it was employed by older generations. However, my husband likes it when I loosen his tie, take off his shoes, cook for him, massage his back, and do other things to cater to him in our domestic space. I don't think anyone calls it "chivalry" when a woman caters to a man. I like the term "acts of kindness".

    Every single time I cook for him (or loosen his tie, unbutton his shirt, or take off his shoes) it is an act of Love. I would like to think that when he opens doors for me, his motivation is the same. I enjoy it when he opens the car door (or any other door) as I enter and exit. But in neither case (of my kindness or his) are we just fulfilling a 'duty'.

    Yes of course grown folk can cook for themselves, open doors for themselves, or trade-off and switch 'chores' at any point. But our relationship is not just about duty. We practice expressing love through small acts of kindness throughout the week. One of those acts is him opening doors for me.

    Perhaps chivalry based on gender obligation or "duty" is dead. Black women are not (and never have been) helpless. But beyond chivalry, I hope that kindness between people who love each other – or hope to love each other in the future – is kept alive. With that in mind, I pause a moment before I approach any door while out with my husband so he can open it for me. When at home, he pauses a moment before getting out of his work clothes so I have a chance to loosen his tie and unbutton his shirt. This is not something I am obligated to do. It is something I do as an act of kindness and it began long before we were married.

    ~ Mrs. W

    PS: I'm glad marriage made you soft… That means she's doing something right 😉

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