Home Featured Why Nice Guys Finish Last & How They Can Win

Why Nice Guys Finish Last & How They Can Win

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Many truths are laced with sadness.

When I was younger, I used to be a nice guy. If you’re a woman, you probably knew a guy like me or went out on a date with a guy like me. Sh*t, you may be planning to get up with the younger me tonight or tomorrow for a free dinner and night out on the town…before sending me home with a church hug and a peck on the cheek so you can text or call the guy that really gets your internal lubrication mechanism going.

If you’re a dude, you probably watched a guy like me lose repeatedly. You may have even considered yourself the proverbial nice guy. The struggle was real. You thought you were respectful of women and that you showed them the meaning of chivalry. You didn’t use them for sex because it felt unnatural and contradictory to everything your parents taught.

You probably listened to every word girls spoke and offered them reassurance accordingly. You may have even tried to play the friend role without knowing that you were forever branding yourself with a scarlet F, and heading to the  “I will talk to you about other guys or treat you like you’re a gay friend” zone. That sh*t sucks. It’s a funny thing to treat a woman with the utmost respect and admiration then watch it seemingly cost you the opportunity you desired.



I gave it my all...and lost...again. I'm great at what I do but these women don't want good men.

Yeah, I used to be a nice a guy. Then reality and maturity set in.

Last week I dropped a comment over in Bougie Land about the plight of nice guys and how they eventually learn the error of their or — in many cases — her ways. After commenting, I found myself reflecting on how I used to operate versus the way that I function today. I sat there unproductively at work and relived some of the most unpleasant moments of my teens and early 20s. But, I found solace in knowing how much I’ve changed, and that I’ll never again have to worry about watching the backs of everyone in front of me as I limp toward the finish line with a valiant but unsuccessful effort. Somewhere in the last few years, I figured out something that unbound the restraints that I unknowingly placed on myself:

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I’m not just a nice guy that finishes last unless we’re talking about sheets magic. That’s an outward looking excuse for my own insecurities and inability to understand how immature and often incompatible people operate. I’m just a good person. Period. I’m drawing a distinction here between “nice guy” and “good person”because depending on who you ask in 2011, a nice guy can take on multiple meanings. Let me briefly elaborate.

A nice guy in the most general and mature sense is a selfless person that people enjoy being around. He’s always willing to help where he can, has an optimistic outlook on life, has a good sense of humor, and brings an infectious positive energy wherever he goes. It doesn’t matter if he’s introverted or extroverted. He’s the type of person that when you hear something bad happened to him or someone close to him, you feel deeply for his troubles because “he’s such a nice guy.”

#SWAG

But when it comes to the hunt for women, the definition of a nice guy ain’t so peachy. For a man, being called a nice guy after a first date when she’s debriefing with her friends is greater than or equal to being called ugly…despite the fact that ugly men have proven that they can win. The competitive advantage for the aesthetically deficient is confidence. Something that the “nice guy” as I’m describing him to you often lacks.

I can say this because in the 28 years that I’ve traversed through life, I’ve never heard a woman describe a 1st date guy as nice without hearing her go on to say she’s not interested or inquiring about a friend of mine that peaked her interest. Granted, she may have enjoyed her meal with Mr. Respect & Care, but that was the extent of it. His efforts to be everything she wanted and what he thought she deserved were for naught. And because he thinks he needs to win her over, he’ll continue to foolishly exert 200% effort when his fate was already decided in the first quarter. That leads me to my next point:

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Nice guy is starting to become synonymous with simp — a term that we’ve all grown to know too well. 

If you get your Webster or Urban Dictionary on, you’ll see that a simp (or simpleton) is defined as a fool. Today, simps are the nice guys that after making several admirable — but usually unsuccessful — attempts to impress women, complain about finishing last and how women don’t want good men. Simps are everything that women really need without the 2 things they really want: confidence and experience.

They are the lads that let women have, say, and do what they want to a fault. And while he’s showering her with wholesome goodness, his cologne reeks of nonexistent assertiveness and subsequent incompatibility. And for whatever reason, he presses on trying to impress women who, if he paid close enough attention, make it clear they aren’t truly interested in him.

Note: Doesn’t this sound like the woman that gives and does everything possible for a man that hasn’t even feigned the possibility of commitment?

What the modern day nice guy and unpleasantly labeled  (and even confident) nice guy fails to realize is that it’s difficult for his kind gestures and proverbial awesomeness to be understood by a woman that doesn’t know how to separate her wants from her needs. She’s not gonna see the value and possibility of what could be with him because she doesn’t want the man that he is today. But as he gets older, those that weren’t interested before reappear with a smile and some eggs.

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So how does the Mr. Nice Guy win today? That’s simple. He changes his attitude. 

He goes into dating situations knowing that women are at different places on the needs-wants-values continuum and acknowledging incompatibility is part of finding the one he’ll be most compatible with. He understands that just because he plays by the rules doesn’t mean he should win; and if he keeps losing, he needs to go back to the drawing board and look at why he has a bunch of ribbons but no trophies. But most importantly, he doesn’t get discouraged by the “success” of the assholes. He just accepts that if that’s the type of man she wanted, she wasn’t the one for him to begin with, and vice versa.

It was when I had that realization that things turned around for me. I started running my own race and women started popping up like gophers at the arcade. No women were bopped over the head in the making of this man.

So when it comes down to it, it’s not about nice guys (or girls) finishing last. It’s about nice guys not finishing until she does. Well, that and not worrying about finishing in last place when it comes to love. If you approach dating as a learning experience, you’ll get to the finish line when you’re supposed to. Don’t lose yourself trying to excessively be someone for somebody that doesn’t want and isn’t right for you.  Be a good person free of labels. And if you can’t do that, you need some more training before you step up to the starting line.

Are there distinctions between good and nice guys or girls? If so, what are they? If not, why not? Any other thoughts or tips for the “nice people” that came to mind after reading this post? All thoughts are welcome!

Mmm-Bop,

Comment(184)

  1. If you’re a nice guy and always finish last, its Prolly because your breath smells, your peen is small, you’re not interesting, or some other flaw you don’t realize you have. Its that simple. Maybe the ugly guy isn’t really ugly that’s winning or maybe he aint really winning *shrugs*

  2. Interesting….I’ll say that one thing I learned in my younger days is to stop being so dang nice. Lol Next I learned to stop being available for outings like she might be interested in. I learned that my time is valuable just as hers and she has to prove she’s worth my time just like she expects me to prove to be worth hers. A lot of it just boils down to having great self esteem and being able to draw the line somewhere.

    1. Very true Paul B. “Don’t sacrifice a backbone for the sake of being nice.”
      Simply put women take advantage of “nice guys” because they can. Just like men take advantage of womens love and affection because they can.
      Whatever you allow people to do to you they will do and continue to do until you stop them.

  3. Regardless of what any woman says, everyone woman wants a man who, when he puts that base in his voice, she's gonna stand down (and secretly swoon), lol. And when that man turns on the base, the only way it'll work is if its believable…I mean, the authority in his tone has to resonate in the depths of our souls. We've got to respect him…a healthy dose of fear is good (for both men and women).

    Nice guys, in my experiences, don't give the impression that they can turn on the base. Nice guys seems too nice to tell me my ish stinks in a way that I'm gonna shut up, smell myself, and realize, "Man, my ish really does stink!" A guy that's too nice will give a woman her way when he actually shouldn't.

    Now, a good guy has the behavior of a nice guy…you know, opening doors, helping you with your coat, leading you to the inside of the sidewalk. But, he ain't afraid to call you out when necessary…even on the first date…in a serious yet respectful way. The good guy presents himself in a way that lets the woman know that he's being a gentleman by choice…not cause he's pressed. And, believe it or not, women (or at least this woman, lol) like a bit of a challenge/chase too #teamgemini.

    My tip for #teamnice is to simply make people (male or female) earn your undivided attention.

    1. Yep yep – shonuff! Last guy who really made me swooon. It was during our first encounter and I was just telling this story about how I had to prepare the budget for this church board I was on and they told me to cut 10% and I had cut more. And he said all authoritative like with that bass in voice – "why did you cut so much. [Something else smart]]. Don't do that again." And I was like okayy sir. And I was hooked! Lol. Grown person (man or woman) no matter how good, nice, kind you are – you gotta have that don't 'eff with me' line which adds onto your attraction level…
      My recent post The Waste Land aka The Life of a Single Black Woman

    2. If I might say, you and all the rest who agree with you, sound like the typical women who thrive on a good ass whooping every now and again. If that's what it takes to attract women like you, you're not worth much, self-esteem wise, that is…nor the time of a good man…

      1. I'm not even gonna dignify this ignorance with a real response, lol.

        I'll only say that I meant what I said…not your perception of it…and that I have NEVER been in an abusive relationship. And, I've dated and been with several good men.

        Good day to you, sir…

    3. Be a leader. Women find a man who can effortlessly lead (attract) them and call that love. Make no mistake about it gentlemen… that is, in essence, what love is to a woman. It is not because you're 'nice'… It's because you're not a leader. Women have their own money now; provisioning is not the plus it once was (it's still important). This allows them to date selectively, and scrutinize a man based on certain personality characteristics that women universally find attractive: Dominance, decisiveness, charisma, wit, Confidence (can't stress this one enough – it makes their nipples hard), independence, humor.
      That's why they shit test us. Women don't want to win… they want a winner. But they will test his ability and his patience to the ends of the earth. She's not doing it for her health. She's doing it because a few months have gone by and she needs to know if you are still up to the task. Lead! Stop marching to her tune and let her know she's marching to yours. Be dominant. Speak with confidence. LET THE HEFFA KNOW SHE AIN'T SHIT. No, I'm not saying be a woman beater or an emotional abuser… I'm saying beat her at her own game. Shit test?… Agree and amplify. Works every time.
      This is also why women give dating 'advice' that is directly the opposite of what it is they really want… THEY WANT YOU TO JUST GET IT. They don't want to have to tell you to be dominant, confident, spontaneous, or decisive… they want you to just get it. Cause if they have to tell you, you're not being what she wants/needs because that's who you are, you're doing it because she told you to. Let a woman know you're not a leader up front and she'll use you — Fool her into marrying you and she'll leave you (along w/ your kids and half ya cash) every time. UNDERSTAND, TO A WOMAN, A WEAK MAN IS JUST AS UNDESIRABLE AS A FAT, DUMPY SHORT-HAIRED WOMAN IS TO YOU. A woman's greatest fear= A weak, indecisive man. Fellas, you know the definition of insanity… It's time to develop some confidence and try somethin' new.
      Lastly, know that your woman's love is conditional… The SECOND you stop provisioning and leading, her attraction for you is DEAD. It's the same for them… Men don't fall in love with their soul mates or w/e, they fall in love with beauty (there is no one; there are good ones and bad ones, but no One). Now trip, MEN WERE SO BUTTHURT ABOUT WOMEN'S INABILITY TO LOVE THEM UNCONDITIONALLY, THEY PUT IT IN TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE VOWS. 'For rich or for poor, for better or worse, in sickness and in health, til death do us part…" Your woman is not your best friend , your soul mate, or your everything.. she's your responsibility. No, you cannot share your deepest fears, insecurities, and vulnerabilities with your woman… that's not how leaders operate. Your woman will support you, but be vulnerable with her and watch out. Don't listen to women who tell you otherwise. Grow up; stop listening to what these goofy harpies say and start paying attention to what they do.

    1. I don't think you should be anything else… unless you want something else… I agree with what Slim said here: "Don’t lose yourself trying to excessively be someone for somebody that doesn’t want and isn’t right for you."
      My recent post Thirst

        1. No, I think you read it right, and that it's mostly about making an adjustment (confidence/attitude) to reap more results *if that's what you want*…

          …but further down in my comment, I said I think the place to start is to evaluate what you really want in the first place (and why you want it)… and someone else said something about quality over quantity, which I also agree with.

          The question is, the prize that the guys who become azzhats get, do you want that? Yeah? Really?

          Then no question, change it up… adjust your attitude… so you can be "winning" too.

          But if you want something… else…. something true to who you are… BE WHO YOU ARE. And if anything, be that more places, with more people, so you have a better chance at coming across someone who can appreciate it.

          My recent post Thirst

    2. Be a leader. Women find a man who can effortlessly lead (attract) them and call that love. Make no mistake about it gentlemen… that is, in essence, what love is to a woman. It is not because you're 'nice'… It's because you're not a leader. Women have their own money now; provisioning is not the plus it once was (it's still important). This allows them to date selectively, and scrutinize a man based on certain personality characteristics that women universally find attractive: Dominance, decisiveness, charisma, wit, Confidence (can't stress this one enough – it makes their nipples hard), independence, humor.

      That's why they shit test us. Women don't want to win… they want a winner. But they will test his ability and his patience to the ends of the earth. She's not doing it for her health. She's doing it because a few months have gone by and she needs to know if you are still up to the task. Lead! Stop marching to her tune and let her know she's marching to yours. Be dominant. Speak with confidence. LET THE HEFFA KNOW SHE AIN'T SHIT. No, I'm not saying be a woman beater or an emotional abuser… I'm saying beat her at her own game. Shit test?… Agree and amplify. Works every time.

      This is also why women give dating 'advice' that is directly the opposite of what it is they really want… THEY WANT YOU TO JUST GET IT. They don't want to have to tell you to be dominant, confident, spontaneous, or decisive… they want you to just get it. Cause if they have to tell you, you're not being what she wants/needs because that's who you are, you're doing it because she told you to. Let a woman know you're not a leader up front and she'll use you — Fool her into marrying you and she'll leave you (along w/ your kids and half ya cash) every time. UNDERSTAND, TO A WOMAN, A WEAK MAN IS JUST AS UNDESIRABLE AS A FAT, DUMPY SHORT-HAIRED WOMAN IS TO YOU. A woman's greatest fear= A weak, indecisive man. Fellas, you know the definition of insanity… It's time to develop some confidence and try somethin' new.

      Lastly, know that your woman's love is conditional… The SECOND you stop provisioning and leading, her attraction for you is DEAD. It's the same for them… Men don't fall in love with their soul mates or w/e, they fall in love with beauty (there is no one; there are good ones and bad ones, but no One). Now trip, MEN WERE SO BUTTHURT ABOUT WOMEN'S INABILITY TO LOVE THEM UNCONDITIONALLY, THEY PUT IT IN TRADITIONAL MARRIAGE VOWS. 'For rich or for poor, for better or worse, in sickness and in health, til death do us part…" Your woman is not your best friend , your soul mate, or your everything.. she's your responsibility. No, you cannot share your deepest fears, insecurities, and vulnerabilities with your woman… that's not how leaders operate. Your woman will support you, but be vulnerable with her and watch out. Don't listen to women who tell you otherwise. Grow up; stop listening to what these goofy harpies say and start paying attention to what they do.

  4. "He goes into dating situations knowing that women are at different places on the needs-wants-values continuum and acknowledging incompatibility is part of finding the one he’ll be most compatible with. He understands that just because he plays by the rules doesn’t mean he should win; and if he keeps losing, he needs to go back to the drawing board and look at why he has a bunch of ribbons but no trophies. But most importantly, he doesn’t get discouraged by the “success” of the assholes. He just accepts that if that’s the type of man she wanted, she wasn’t the one for him to begin with, and vice versa."

    All of this damn bloody paragraph!!!!!! I been tryna tell them, but they don't hear me, though. Perhaps they'll listen to you.

    No, there is no distinction between good and nice guys or gals. Good people are nice people, and vice versa. It's just that some nice/good people happen to also be doormats. I'm a nice person and find good favour wherever I go, but I don't leave myself open to ill treatment and/or manipulation. If things don't work out between me & someone and he runs off to another who constantly mistreats him, I'd hardly be inclined to start acting like a witch henceforth. The type of man I value would not be impressed by that sort of behaviour. People need to realize for once and for all that just because you're nice does not mean that you are the ideal partner for the one who's caught your eye. This, even if the person they choose over you is not half the partner you would have been. Also, value yourself enough to realize that not everyone you are attracted to you is deserving of your affection. Be kind to all, but give your heart only to those who prove themselves worthy of it.

    1. "People need to realize for once and for all that just because you're nice does not mean that you are the ideal partner for the one who's caught your eye." <—- That's deep. And true. And really difficult to come to terms with sometimes.

      Nice guys/girls find it hard to understand "why" we're not the chosen partner of the one we're interested in. I see myself as a fantastic potential partner, so it confuses me when a dude doesn't seem to see that. So it dose sometimes feel like i'm losing out to less worthy women. As you said, Naija, I may just not be ideal for those particular men. Food for thought.

      1. I think part of the problem is that….we are taught (early on) that if we meet the "right" person everything works out. And in reality it doesn't. The quote below is probably one the best things I ever learned about relationships.

        "The key to staying in love is not finding the right person. It's finding someone who is committed to becoming the right person while you work to become the right person. It's finding someone who is not afraid to put you first while you overcome your fear of putting him or her first. It's about making love a verb."

        1. Exactly tgtaggie. Some folks live in a fantasy world and have lofty visions of love and relationships instead of reality.
          Instead of always thinking something is wrong with you if your a nice person and did nothing to deserve the ill treatment you received realize that it's the person your dealing with and they are doing you a favor by not being with you.

      2. I have an idea why this may be. Life has shown me that even nice guys/girls have some arrogant tendencies just as the a-holes do. The difference is how that arrogance is sown into them. They could have genuinely been nice, but sayings like this is what messes nice guys/girls up: Any woman/man would be lucky to have you. This statement is what swells their heads up and gets them to thinking that whoever they choose should be lucky and appreciative to have them, and that they are going to treat them right as well since they know how good and nice of a person they are.

        The truth is that choosing somebody that didn't choose you as well only makes you look like a fool. We forget that other people have a choice as well, and sometimes that choice isn't us. It may not be anything wrong with us, or even anything wrong with them; they just didn't choose us. As people we need a 800 mg pill of "Getdafcukoverit" and keep it moving.

        1. "As people we need a 800 mg pill of "Getdafcukoverit" and keep it moving."

          I can get behind this^^^^

          Cosign!!

        2. "The truth is that choosing somebody that didn't choose you as well only makes you look like a fool. We forget that other people have a choice as well, and sometimes that choice isn't us. It may not be anything wrong with us, or even anything wrong with them; they just didn't choose us. As people we need a 800 mg pill of "Getdafcukoverit" and keep it moving."

          This should be required reading for anyone who's sulking has extended beyond 30 days, lol…

      3. See, I look at things from the other end. If I am able to turn down a good man because there's something lacking, then the same thing can happen to me. I've never had a sense of entitlement because I believe myself to be a nice person. There are nice people everywhere, so there has to be more to it than that.

    2. NaijaSweetz: "People need to realize for once and for all that just because you're nice does not mean that you are the ideal partner for the one who's caught your eye."

      True. I guess the issue is most young guys fell for the swindle that women really wanted a nice guy and men to be nice and sweet and good and chivalrous and respectful and all that. So to get women, we really focused on doing those things, and some of us went a little overboard. When we realized that was a bunch of crap and it would get you relegated to "he's nice but I wouldn't date him" status, we stopped caring and started treating women we're interested in just like anyone else.

      And started winning.

      1. But I do, and have always wanted that. The only thing is that it will not necessarily get a guy anywhere if I have no interest in him to begin with. A guy would not get me by being a disrespectful asshole, either. You're right, the problem stems from people going overboard with a goal in mind when it's almost clear that the other party has no interest in pursuing anything. When a guy I have my eye on does things I consider to be sweet, I find myself smiling and saying how nice he is at random for a period of time. Women don't go demoting guys they like simply because they were thoughtful and nice. They do it when a guy has no backbone and they can't really see themselves respecting him as they feel they should, or if there is no chemistry. Ultimately, I want a man that will be the head of my household, so if I can't see myself deferring to you, no dice.

        1. Women don't go demoting guys they like simply because they were thoughtful and nice.

          They do it when a guy has no backbone and they can't really see themselves respecting him as they feel they should, or if there is no chemistry.

          Annnnnnnd Scene. This sums up the entire post and thread.

          *NodsHeadInAgreement*

        2. Naija: "Women don't go demoting guys they like simply because they were thoughtful and nice. They do it when a guy has no backbone and they can't really see themselves respecting him as they feel they should, or if there is no chemistry."

          That is part of a man's learning process. Being nice makes it appear to some women that a man has no backbone. Putting up a a$$hole facade makes it seem like a man does, and women are attracted to this faux-assertiveness. (SN: this also explains why women are attracted to jerks.)

          After finally being able to actually get some experience with women after being an a$$hole, a man starts to realize he was overcompensating with niceness when he was young, and is now overcompensating with meanness. That is the point when a man settles into who he is, and realizes this is who I am, take it or leave it.

        3. "That is the point when a man settles into who he is, and realizes this is who I am, take it or leave it."

          And that right there is attractive. One should generally not let others dictate their values and/or alter their core characteristics. I want my babe to be the sweetest thing, but he has to know that being nice doesn't mean that he can't be at odds with me once in awhile. I always question the legitimacy of those who claim to have once been nice, but pushed to becoming a-holes when women didn't respond in a desirable manner.

      2. Hugh Jazz the other thing people fail to realize is that "Truly Good Mature WOMEN" (not immature cute pretty girls) do love nice men and appreciate all the chivalry and nice things that "Nice Guys" do for us.
        People need to think about the types of people they are attracted to.
        Men may not want to get with bbw's but I bet if they did they would get treated like the kings they want to feel like.
        It's not always that nice guys or girls finish last, it's that sometimes the people the nice people date feel they are entitled to the treatment they receive from the nice guys and because they are entitled to it it's a given and they can take without giving anything in return.

        1. Big Beautiful Women.

          I wanted to spare you the ocular assault of entering that into Google and being subject to an unsavory picture of mounds of cellulite oozing out of brasier.

        2. This is true Breebree. Mature women can appreciate a nice guy. Immature women have to grow and develop like immature men do.

  5. Good post Slim! A lot of "nice" guys need to read this and act accordingly. Food for thought: just because you got "friend-zoned" or rejected and the other guy didn't doesn't automatically make you the nice or good guy. I can't help but roll my eyes each time I see some guy talk about how he stopped being nice or he started being an asshole just because those types of guys got the girls. If you are CONSTANTLY getting rejected, diversify your pickings. You may be shopping at the wrong store. Trying to be anyone else other than yourself just so you can get the girl will only leave you resentful and bitter and always screaming about how nice guys finish last.

    PS: Is it just me or has it been a while since we've read anything from Mr. Spradley? Hope all is well.

    1. Truth, thanks… I needed to read that… My niceness has gotten me nothing but world of hurt… I'm not going to become an azz and start treating women like sluts.. I decided what's best for me is to do me now… I been at this game quite for some time… Just came out of twenty something year marriage where my kindness was taken for a weakness… Time for me to get the Harley and hit the road… See the great wide open…

  6. I usually use the "he's nice" phrase when the guy is kind of akward/weird. Not in a cute way but in a "yea dont call me I'll call you kind of way.

    There's nothing wrong with being a nice guy. Just dont let people take your kindness for weakness. If you were raised to be a respectable young man then be that. Dont let one women's choice in a partner get you bent out of shape. If anything i feel like nice guys have women looking at them it just not the women they want.

    Just give her a preview of all the great things you can offer her, if she does'nt take it then fine keep it moving. Remember some women dont know how their suppose to be treated, so dont get mad b/c she rather go with someone else. Also dont assume that just b/c she did'nt pick you (the nice guy) that she picked an a-hole maybe their was another nice guy the caught her attention.

    1. "I usually use the "he's nice" phrase when the guy is kind of akward/weird. Not in a cute way but in a "yea dont call me I'll call you kind of way. "

      That how I use it… I label him nice in the same way someone may say a woman "has a nice personality".

  7. Nice guy and good guy are NOT one and the same. A good guy is a man that can remain respectful but acknowledge he's attracted to a woman. He doesn't try to hide behind being "a friend" and then end up upset he's in the friend zone.

    Simply put good guys get women attracted to them, nice guys just settle for their affection. Problem is if she just feels affection for you, you're stuck. She'll keep you around because you shower her with attention. You're effectively a puppy that gets excited and wags his tail whenever she comes around. She enjoys your attention, but she doesn't want you.

    But the main problem with being the nice guy isn't just that they're finishing last, it's that they're trying to be nice so that they look different from all the other guys who are just trying to get in the woman's pants. They want to look like they're more than that and that they're not just interested in getting her in bed.

    The only problem here is, well, they are.

    The only reason "nice guys" are doing this is because that's their strategy to get some. And it isn't a very effective one either. If you want to have massive success with women you'll need to drop this strategy and any residual it left behind and just BE A MAN. You need to admit it to yourself that getting physical is part of you want.

    I'll tell you why this is the worst strategy:

    1. It makes women see you as someone who is not interested in her
    physically or aren't confident enough to make a move. And we all know women like confident guys.

    2. Women can see through it.

    3. Even if women buy into the "nice guy" attitude you're trying to display, you won't go nowhere, because she thinks you're not interested in her as a woman.

    4. You become predictable, and let's face it, predictable is just boring's next door neighbor.

    Moral of the story: Be a man, and not a puppy. Men get women, and puppies get spayed.

    1. +1 on the list. lol. I like to add one more.

      – Most good guys will not invest the time, money and energy in a girl he knows he is attracted to just to be her friend. Its just counter productive. A good guy will always want more out of the relationship. I got enough female friends. I want someone I can spend the rest of my life with. lol.

    2. Why won't this editing system let me "thumbs up" TWIsM's comment more than once?

      Like tgtaggie, I'll add to the list. Getting with a woman is like a job interview: always keep in mind that not only is she analyzing and trying to determine if she wants you, but you should be doing the same. Make sure she knows that you're attracted to her, but make sure she also knows that she's being interviewed to see if she's worth your time, and that you have options.

  8. Also I think some men try to use the "nice guys finish last" motto an excuse b/c their feelings are hurt. Just b/c your nice does'nt make you number one on the team. Some of them feel b/c "they are not like the other guys" that they are entitled to have that particular girl. They feel their niceness wil step them apart, when in reality if your dealing It's just like women who has her head on straight , being nice is only the first step.
    It's just like a female saying im wifey material so I deserve a ring. Just b/c u feel you deserve something b/c of your actions does'nt always mean you get it

    It's like applying for a job you might feel like your the best canidate with nice qualifications but that does'nt always guareentee you the job.

  9. The difference between nice guys and nice girls is the same between any man/woman comparison, giris will almost always get play from someone. Ain’t too many girls looking to turn out Mr. Friendly. I’ve dated nice girls some i felt i’d be turned away at the pearly gates if i did her wrong, others are probably cynical bitches now (#thisismysorryfor2004 literally).

    However i dont feel the nice guy/nice girl should change a thing. When nice guys try to be something they simply arent they end up making albums like Take Care.

  10. I have to admit after reading this post, I can only express how bitter I have become. My niceness was seen as a weakness. My father used to say "Some women wouldn't know a good man if GOD himself was to come down here on earth and place that man beside her." I hate to admit it but my father was right. He was right about my ex wife and he was right about my ex of five years… Between the two them they brought me a world of hurt… I don't mean to lash out here, but in those relationships I gave my all and I ended up with nothing in return… The one learning factor about me being who I am is that I know they will never find anyone to love them the way I did. I take pride in knowing I did right by them… I have no one to blame here but myself. I choose these women believing that they would appreciate a man who showed them respect and admiration… Their lost… I want to thank you Slim for this post. It has brought out the best in me… this will be my last post here… Stay up and be well…

  11. I think dating in general produces haves and have nots. As one matriculates through the crazy world of dating they reach a certain maturation level. Either they refuse to continue with concepts that do not work or they find themselves fed up with their counter parts. My mom used to always tell me I was too nice and to be careful of peeps taking advantage of that. Now that she is gone I do wonder about my behavior and hope my niceties are not viewed as weakness.

  12. Ive been called a “nice guy” after the first date a few times. I now refer to two of those women as ex-girlfriends and the third Mrs West. *shrugs* so im not really on board with this whole “Nice Guys Finish Last Crap”.

    “Nice guy” is about as vague of a description as someone saying to you “Im looking for the black dude named Michael that lives in NY”. Its an overly and improperly used term.

    1. Imma have to somwhat co-sign this, LOL!

      Its the tone and inflection used with it that makes a difference…

      Homegirl: So, how was your date?
      You: He seems like a really nice guy! 🙂

      Or,

      Homegirl: So, how was your date:
      You: Uhhhh…ummm…he was a nice guy? :-/

      1. Exactly: semantics and context. People have mis-used the word so much that it is now used as a synonym for things it wasn't originally intended to.

  13. I totally agree with this post. Even though I hate the term nice guy, if I had to put myself in a box I'd likely fall into there. I was never as successful with getting the sheer amount of female attention as many of my friends, but I didn't really care, cause the attention that I DID get was quality.

    When you get out of your crazy teens and early twenties, it's not just about making yourself as appealing to as many people as possible. It's about knowing who you are, what you want, and what shit you won't take. In my case, I knew that if a woman had a problem with my nice, comic book reading, video game playing, NASA loving ass, then its a wrap, no matter how hot she was.

    Guys, if a woman puts you in that nice guy box and loses interest, it's for the best. Don't try to win someone over that doesn't fuck with your style, I just don't believe that a woman that truly likes you will be turned off because you're nice,
    My recent post Slow Down and Enjoy your Tech!

    1. “I just don’t believe that a woman that truly likes you will be turned off because you’re nice,”

      You know that’s rite!!…

      If she was truly feeling you she would embrace it and swoon over the fact that she found herself a NICE, GOOD One.

    2. "I was never as successful with getting the sheer amount of female attention as many of my friends, but I didn't really care, cause the attention that I DID get was quality. "

      Amen.
      My recent post Thirst

  14. Nice guys with Confidence don't finish last. Take a rejection like the man you are and move on to the next one (not without telling her she wasn't all that anyway) . The problem with nice guys complaining they finish last is that some folks might think you are Bi*ch-made . . . which isn't a good look. There so many women around the world for us men to be winning on. We need to learn how to keep it moving when a female we interested in puts us in the friend zone. I learned it the hard way and I've lived a happy life ever since.

  15. Hmm. Really, in my experience, I've noticed you need to just be different than what she's used to. If she grew up getting dealing with dudes who are overly aggressive, being an archetypal nice guy will work wonders. If she's used to a reserved type of chivalry, the converse is true, within reason.

  16. Good post Slim. This was entirely me up until college. My ah-ha moment was like you said confidence. That and Jay-Z. I can't remember what song it was but he had a line in there that basically stated eff these broads, just do you. That changed the entire game for me. I adopted that train of thought and it worked flawlessly. The less I cared about chicks and their feelings and emotions, wants and needs, the more they were attracted to me. I did me and let whatever was gonna come to me come. I probably still follow that rule today with a lil tweaking here and there.

    1. I totally agree with this statement. One advice I received from an old head when I first moved to the DMV area was: "When you chase money/success/dreams, women will always be around." "When you chase women, you will always be broke." With that being said, focus on getting your paper right, career in track, and everything else will line-up accordingly. Women love power and success and at the end of the day, that's what they are really attracted to. Power and Success=Confidance. A successful man has to have confidance in order to be in the position he is in.

        1. All this time I was thinking Peter Parker and peter parker were the same person. Are either of you Spider Man, or is that a different Peter Parker also?

      1. Tweaking = Over time you learn that being a complete ahole will get you nowhere. At some point you have to stop and listen to your lady. You don't have to totally understand the root of her emotion/rant and raves but listening isn't necessarily a bad thing, it can get you places..lol

        1. This. After nice guys go to the azzhole extreme and get their revenge of the nerd, they need to pull back and start treating women as humans. Not princesses or heaux

        2. I agree. But its confusing for some guys to find that happy medium. Getting to a place where you're accepted/appreciated by women is a journey in itself.

  17. I agree with alot of the comments that were posted. I think it is all about having confidance with a little swag that will get the woman you are interested in. Being a gentleman has nothing to do with being a nice guy, but it's call having chivalry. Most women who were raised in a good, stable family environment will definitely appreciate that, but you always have to display that you are not a door mat and will put your foot down if need be. You can continue to be a gentleman and not be an asshole, but you always must display a sort of arrogrance about yourself especially if you have your stuff together. I remember being in graduate school at a prominent university in the DC area and I couldn't get a date for anything. Every woman would say "oh, how can you date me and you are a broke graduate student." So I took that as fuel to further make sure I focused on my grind and hustle. Now, since I am done, I literally have to bat women away because when they discover you have your stuff together (great career, not job, no baby mamas, drama free, and a cool person) they come in FLOCKS!!!! lol

    1. "you always must display a sort of arrogrance about yourself" Did you mean to say arrogance? Personally,(and the women I know would agree) arrigance is a huge turn off. Humility is sexy.

      1. Actually a little bit of both is necessary (Arrogance and Humility) it's a good combo. If you think and know you the ish — I don't mind you showing it sometimes but at the same time keep it humble.

  18. Interesting post Slim. Ironically, I've only ever been called a "nice guy" by women I really liked. I've been called a good guy all the time, because you can be an a**hole and still be considered a "good guy" by women, because at least you're honest. True story.

    Upon self reflection, I realized that I was acting differently towards the women I really liked. As you explained, I would act how I thought women wanted me to act, overlooking the fact that they were attracted to how I was acting in the first place. As you also accurately pointed out, what women say they want – especially when they're younger – and what they really want (or at least will tolerate) is whole universes apart. Once I learned that little nuance, it was all good in the neighborhood.

    I actually had a "nice guy" homeboy in college and I was always the traditional a**hole. I was even called this to my face a number of times, and yet, I never struggled to meet women. In fact, often times it was the same women or friends of that woman who moments earlier was calling me an a**hole. As a social observer by nature, this was very confusing to me but since I was winning, I ignored it. It seems the only difference between you and I, judging by this story, is that I went from being nice to being an extreme a**hole to finally settling somewhere in the middle. Generally speaking, I think this is merely the plight of being a man. You have to figure out what strategy works for you, adapt, and live accordingly.

    My recent post Great Gift Giving Ideas for Dummies: What Men Want

    1. "Generally speaking, I think this is merely the plight of being a man. You have to figure out what strategy works for you, adapt, and live accordingly. "

      yezzir!

      1. Slim, side note, that picture and quote, “I gave it my all…and lost…again. I’m great at what I do but these women don’t want good men.” is funny as hell. Well played.

        @Camille: Both. As a man, being my authentic self is intertwined with my strategy on how to get women. It would be unauthentic of me to say I’m not the way I am, at least in part, because of my interactions with women over the years.

  19. Best post Slim has ever wrote. I can hear the past frustration in his words. I have been there before, I use to consider myself a hopeless romantic. But being a romantic and a pervert don't mix. Looking back, I really think it comes down to respect. If a chick puts you in a friend zone, its a lack of respect. If a girl doesn't think you are good enough to get the buns, its a lack of respect. You don't equal up to this guy or that guy who she did give the buns up to.
    turning into an as$ helped. Even in my current relationship, I feel like the more I express myself to my SO the better chance we have of being happy. SImping does no good to anyone, it creates a false sense of worth and it turns the nice guy into a bitter skeptic.

    Great post… truth be told, great post all week by the sbm staff.

    1. "But being a romantic and a pervert* don't mix."

      LIES. I swear.

      #TeamPisces can teach you something about the two, trust.

      *I took pervert to = freak or similar in this context
      My recent post Thirst

        1. I was going to say in order not to high jack Slim's post, I'll deal with you elsewhere… And then I saw, like a good student, you've already made it over there. Good job.
          My recent post Thirst

  20. "So how does the Mr. Nice Guy win today? That’s simple. He changes his attitude."

    Or…he waits until his late 30s and bags 20-somethings for sport.

      1. yeah but those guys aren't nice guys.

        i think the 'young chick' is a powerful topic. you gotta understand… you get less push for commitment and a better body. amazing combo.

  21. Setting up elaborate and long term plans to emotionally manipulate a woman into a relationship is pretty much the antithesis to being a nice or good person. Just ask her out. This isn’t the 15th Century when pretty much any man who talks to a woman of marrying age is attempting to court you. Women think men want to be their friends.

  22. "…and if he keeps losing, he needs to go back to the drawing board and look at why he has a bunch of ribbons but no trophies."

    But FIRST, he thinks critically about whether the ribbons are actually trophies in their own right… and are these women trophies because he's been conditioned to believe they are? Does he even want a trophy? I do believe there's a big, bright blue 1st place _ribbon_ too.

    All of this to say, maybe he isn't losing after all… but instead simply playing a different game… and what better way to find the best match/opponent than to stick to the game and wait/prepare for a girl/person who also wants to play the game he's playing?

    Just a thought. Great post/writing Slim.
    My recent post Thirst

    1. I could be wrong, but I believe the assumption here is that those are ribbons of participation and not placement…but why get caught up in metaphorical semantics, right?

      "All of this to say, maybe he isn't losing after all… but instead simply playing a different game… "

      If you're on a tennis court, but you're playing golf I'm going to go ahead and assume you're not winning the tennis match, hence losing. lol.(spinning context to negate an assertion is fun!) All jokes aside, I see what you're saying, though. Makes logical sense. Be you and wait for someone that appreciates you being you. No doubt.

      1. LMAO spinning context indeed… if you're playing chess, stop wondering why you keep losing the gurls that are better at checkers! Don't switch to checkers. Tighten up your chess game so that when Miss Checkmate comes along she sees you as a worthy opponent.

        We could probably go all day.

        Oh wait, I'm not supposed to be thirsty, so #pause.
        My recent post Thirst

    2. "But FIRST, he thinks critically about whether the ribbons are actually trophies in their own right… and are these women trophies because he's been conditioned to believe they are? Does he even want a trophy? "
      They are trophies because he's conditioned to believe they are. The difference is that the nice guy wants to love and nurture the trophy while the other guy treats the trophy like a trophy.

      "Does he even want a trophy? "
      He wants the trophy until he gets the trophy. They want the 8-10s but aren't really built for them.

      1. "They are trophies because he's conditioned to believe they are. "

        Then he should employ some critical thinking and decide if they're actually trophies to _him_ which was basically my point!

        An 8-10? Sigh.

        I heart you Humble. Have I told you that today yet? No? Well there it is! I don't think you _want_ the 10, I think you want happiness, whatever number she may be.

        My recent post Thirst

        1. Um….that last sentence is partly true. Truth be told, people want happiness but with the highest number possible. If you can be realistically happy with a 8 and just as happy with a 6, which are you prone to pick? The 8. Nobody will choose a 6 if they can find a 9-10 to give them the exact same thing.

  23. I agree with this post and its nice to see guys who arent bitter about the women they didn’t get. I only deal with nice guys, cause I know my daddy. Lol. But one thing I’ve noticed with some self described nice guys is that they are fake as hell. They put out this nice facade because their mama told them not to disrespect women. But deep down, they are some selfish angry mofos. They are not listening to you because they are interested in what you have to say. They don’t really like or respect women at all. The more time you spend with one of these, you realize they are seething with rage at you and all women. When they finally do get some, all that anger mixed with the anxiety and physical, ahem, malfunctions caused by watching too much pr0n makes for a disastrous experience.

    Most women have encountered one of these angry nice guys and knows better than to give them some. Its about attraction, first and last. Good deeds don’t make you attractive. Confidence does. And an a$$hole with no confidence might be able to get laid because young girls, and guys confuse selfishess with confidence. But a guy who has no confidence and tries to win a woman with good deeds shouldnt get mad at the women for rejecting him. He should get may at himself for being stupid.

    1. Where are these "fake" nice guys? I hear women say this but I've never met these guys. Most of the nice guys I've seen are legitimately milquetoast. I think these fake nice guys might be dudes that women see as the irresistible ain't about ish dude and nice guy rolled in one.

        1. Actually, I've ran into one of those. Nice guy/ I'm like wow, this is… _nice_. First few months? Great. Screwed him?

          Everything changes. Became a sex obsessed butthead. (meaning, all the stuff he did before? out the window. no longer felt like it was necessary… started being a real azz, too… only time we were cool? when we wanted to screw, sigh)

          It's like whoa! wait! *turns head back and forth frantically* what the hell just happened?!?
          My recent post Thirst

      1. They are Jeckyll Hyde types. They act nice and they truly believe they are nice. They suppress their sexual nature and selfishness, till they get some attention or poon, then they turn on you. Its not game, its a mental disturbance. They don’t hate women and they hate themselves.

    1. To be fair, I believe in this context they are defining "nice guys" as "p*ssies and pushovers" for the most part. But hey, I could be wrong. *shrugs*

  24. Good post slim.

    I think we all know that not ALL nice guys finish last….if they find an equally nice woman they can win. But usually this is after a good 20+ races. But hey, who's counting, right? lol. At any rate it doesn't matter how many times you come in last…all you have to do is win once in life and you're set (marriage). Just like any superstar pro athlete you will be considered a great player (nice guy), but your legacy won't be cemented until you win a championship. Some players stay losing for a long time, but once you win a ring a funny thing happens…people forget the first few times you've lost and remember you as a champion (Dirk Nowitzki, anyone?).

    Also, unless you subscribe to the Ricky Bobby school of thought, just b/c you didn't finish in first doesn't mean you're last either. But let's face it, 2nd place is really the first loser, right? 😉

  25. As a nice guy I use to finish last. If you saw my tweets last weekend you saw me tweet about my homeboy and his boy (in their 30s) still being "friend zoned" and finishing last. Let me address the nice guy thing. For young women (teens – mid 20s) the nice guy bar is low. Nice guy is any guy that isn't a "money having, p***y hunting, disrespectful, thuggish, a-hole". So a lot of guys get "friend zoned" and finish last in that time period that aren't really nice guys. There is a different between a "nice guy" and a "good guy".

    Now back to my boy and his boy in their 30's I tweeted about that are still finishing last for being nice guys. I told my by several times that he needs to stay in his lane and leave the Beyonce types alone. What makes it worse is that these 2 guys are finishing last with women that are physically attractive but wack personality wise.

    If nice guys want to stop finishing last here are a few tips
    1. know your worth
    If you have your ish together then act like it. I'm not saying be arrogant but have the confidence.

    2. believe the following
    a) the ugliest women on the earth deserves the same treatment as the most beautiful women on earth
    b) if she says you are her friend then act like her friend. not boyfriend but friend. e.g. the same way you treat your boys is the same way you treat her.

    3. stay in your lane.
    You don't have Jay-Z's money, Idris Elba's looks, and you don't have swag (sorry for using that word). Understand this and play your position. If you stop chasing Stacy Dash doppelgangers I'm willing to bet you win's will increase.

    4. If you want more and she doesn't LEAVE HER ALONE.
    I can't speak for all men but I think much too highly of myself to get a woman by wearing her down and being ridiculously nice HOPING she see's that I'm worth getting with. Getting women by default is for losers.

    1. I will also add, hit the gym fellas! If you get your body in shape and eat right, it helps with your overall persona. You will be surprise how this will help increase the women who approach you.

      1. Cosign! I live in Cali. Being outdoors and going on hikes is a bing thing here because of the mountains and the beauty of nature. if you are huffing and puffing and can't keep up with me, as nice as you are there's things we can't do together if we're not equals as far as fitness is concerned.

      1. It might be shallow, but its real. I used to fight the system, thinking people would see past my plump body, frumpy cheap wardrobe and hair that didn’t have a care. They would see the person inside and value her. Guess what, WRONG. And the sooner people accept reality on that and work on the outside, the easier life will be. I lost weight, got better clothes and hair. and Bam, just like that, I’m approached probably ten times as much. People have to be physically attracted first. Attractive people are treated like they are in a higher class, as well. I get better service and more smiles from places I shop. Its not worth it to fight the system.

        1. Really, it's about loving yourself first. Loving yourself includes taking care of yourself. I'm a former professional dancer (performing arts) and fitness instructor. I'm also very athletic. I've had family members deal with illnesses because they never took care of themselves. As little as 30 minutes a day can extend your life, and your quality of life. Looking better and feeling better are a bonus!

        2. Fellas… Never, NEVER let losers, posers, and manginas tell you what you can and cannot do in life. Wanna get with bad b*tches, dymes, fine dime bizzles? Then put in some EFFORT. Your destiny is a path of YOUR choosing.

          There are no 'leagues'… in the world of dating (for men) there's doers and losers. The doers… they achieve. They don't just try gentlemen, they learn from their mistakes, adapt and persevere til they achieve the goal (a dyme). You are a MAN. You are fortunate in the dating game in ways that now and will always bypass women: Age and Rejection. As a man, your fertility is not tied to your age and although women are just as shallow in men in that they prefer eye candy, their attraction triggers are different from ours. They'll forgive a lot more than we will, but looks still count. Realize that, get in the gym and enjoy the freedom that comes with knowing that as long as you live a healthy lifestyle, you can remain attractive into your late 40s (even 50s). We don't get old and wrinkly like they do… appreciate.

          Secondly, as a man you are meant to be the initiator — you can handle rejection in a way the vast majority of women simply aren't built for. Make no mistake: rejection sucks, but you already have the tools necessary to combat it. Persevere and never let rejection get you down. It sucks, but is manageable. Adopt an abundance mentality (which statistically is correct). Get rejected? Remember this: THAT B*TCH DON'T WANT ME, THE NEXT ONE WILL.

          Lastly, open your eyes. There are no leagues. Anyone who tells you different is lying or trying to sell you something. Women have nothing constructive to tell you about attraction as a man… Stop listening to what they say and pay attention to what they do. Do you really think this woman is looking for other fat dudes with no confidence, social skills or game to bed her daily , nightly and ever so rightly? Wake up! Women need us to keep wool over our eyes so the dymes can only select for the dudes who 'get it' and the fuglies, ugos, fatties and over 30s can have some leftovers to choose from since the savvy, successful, type A (Alpha) personality type dudes won't give the time of day. Think about the following:

          There is no new trend of middle aged women suddenly turning into lesbians… There's simply old women who ran into the beauty wall so hard they caused a nuclear reaction which launched them thru an inter-dimensional portal into the world of sexual irrelevancy. You can't give ugly p**sy away. Don't believe me? Just ask Sinead O'Connor.

          Know why a disproportionate number of lesbians are fat? In a sexual market where women don't have to conform to men's standards, women stop even pretending to give a f*ck. That walmartian land whale you saw who was sporting 'exercise' attire two sizes too small, cankles, and chins on chins on chins… THAT is a woman in here true state, and the same goes for you.

          Why are the SLUTWALK weirdos facially challenged c*m guzzlers parading around with walrus-like figures in bikinis? THEY HAVE TO. They have to let men know they are giving it away for free, otherwise they'd never have anyone purchase their product. Ironically, they still can't gain commitment. The dumpster divers just do what they've always done… Beat, skeet, and retreat.

          Effort is required, but do not get lost in the quest for top shelf p*ssy; chase your dreams, desires and ambitions… gain status, generate income, travel, strengthen your mind and body and you will naturally become the man women want to be with. All it'll take is time. Time. It's your greatest asset as a man.

          The world has lied to you: YOU DON'T HAVE TO CHANGE WHO YOU ARE, BUT IN THE PROCESS OF ATTRACTING A MATE, A LITTLE WORK MAY BE INVOLVED.

          CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE, DEVELOP SOME CONFIDENCE, GET OUT IN THE FIELD, HAVE FUN, RESPECT YOUR WOMEN AND LIVE LIFE. WHO KNOWS WHAT MAY HAPPEN.

    2. Good stuff, especially THIS right here:

      "b) if she says you are her friend then act like her friend. not boyfriend but friend. e.g. the same way you treat your boys is the same way you treat her."

      I have to say, if you've friendzoned a gurl, and you really actually _do_ like her as a friend (not you just told her that because you're not interested in her but don't want to hurt her feelings) stop treating her with kid gloves. If she's supposed to be your friend (and she agrees that she's happy with that) invite her out right along with everyone else… I mean she probably wants to sit around and shoot the breeze, too. Hell, there's very little difference between stuff I like to and stuff my true homeboys like to do, save the spa and shopping. Everything else? I'm down.

      So if you want her as a friend, treat her as a friend. It's that in between stuff that gets confusing!!

      End rant.
      My recent post Thirst

      1. CanNOT cosign this, lol. Even if she agreed…more often than not, that chick is lying! She is secretly hoping she or you will change your mind, fellas.

        Oh, she wants to shoot the breeze with you, alright, lol…but be careful. Cause she may not understand that "getting men by default is for losers"! LOL…

    3. First let me start this message off by saying thank you for taking the time to post some insightful knowledge of wisdom of how the genuine nice guy can overcome "finishing last" . This definitely hit home for me as well as the entire post, in my case before I've been through the drama of finishing last and making the same wrong decisions before going on after women that weren't my time and lived through it and what I can say from my perspective is that as I've gotten older (I'm 27 years old) is that personal experience is the best teacher and that I'm taking on the perspective of that woman that doesn't respect my worth or time of wanting to get to know me then its definitely time to move on to the next woman and I've also evolved from the old ways of going after looks over substance which is definitely another case why the nice guy loses and I also started believing the following as well where you mentioned #2 especially the ugliest women on the earth deserves the same treatment as the most beautiful women on earth because we're all human beings worthy of respect even if you arent attracted to them you can always show them that respect and it all comes down to respecting that individual the respect you are entitled to. One thing I also definitely learned is that if you're good at heart, be good at heart and it will naturally shine through instead of being a Dr. Jekyll & Mr Hyde. type of nice guy who tries to adapt at being an asshole/ bad boy , wannabe thug type phony.

  26. Nice guys sometimes finish last b/c they persue women who are out of their league. Example; I see a lot of nice guys go after high maintenance, baddest chick in the club types. Of course those women want a baller, a dude who’s dripping swagu, whatever. I’m an admittedly regular cute lady who is low key. I love me some nice dudes, even dudes that may be a little socially awkward b/c I feel the same way at times so nice, kinda nerdy men are the ones with whom I identify. However, I’ve had the so called-nice guy ignore me b/c he is scrambling to get some hot chic’s attn purely based on looks/sex appeal and she has 3 other men falling over her. Nice guy won’t get any play from her and he’s already given me, the nice, regular girl the cold shoulder so he’s going home alone. Oh well…life just sux all around…

    1. Yeah, I understand your point but as men we are always going to go after the females we are initially attracted to. It's nothing against you or anything, but we are visual creatures…I personally like a woman who is cute, intelligent, but has a sense of style that makes me initially attracted to her….Also, if you are confidant about yours why not go after the finest chick if that's what you like or want. Where the nice guys mess up with these women is they put them on a pedestal when they should just treat them like a regular normal chick…That's when she we will not few him as a nice guy, but a dude that is not like most other dudes who are pressed to get with her.

        1. "There is a such thing as "out of your league". Lots of hurt could be prevented if people would stay in their lane. But you, keep hope alive."

          Cosign. 100%

        2. I only ask to elaborate on "out of your league" because I know females who most men would say are gorgeous, fine, beautiful, or whatever and when you talk to them they always say men never approach them. So alot of times these "women" that would be considered "out of one's league" may appear that way on the outside to most men, but because some dudes lack confidance, they don't approach.

        3. My policy is know your real market value. Take your basic attractiveness, then look at the market you’re in and come up with a conservative (not inflated) number. Count wardrobe and visible wealth (for men). Don’t count non visual stuff, like intelligence, sense of humor. That only counts after the person is already attracted. Once you have your number, ask strangers to verify it. Not friends. Then stay within two digits of your number. Because if you go too far above, you are disposeable, if you go too far below, you will have a disposeable partner. Avoids heartache

    2. Ms Loni you are so right. Nice guys tend to chase after women they have no business going after. I don't understand it. I don't get it. And they are persistent. They will chase after these women and not care how they get treated in return.

    3. You definitely couldn't have said it any better MsLoni, because some nice guys that finish last chase after a mere fantasy of a woman that exists that definitely is a high maintenance, baddest to the extreme up in the club type who wouldn't give them the time of day any given time . And that also is a shame how the regular woman thats probably genuine are going after a woman out their league and when the regular genuine woman expresses interest, the nice guy that got burned would rather save face ,leave empty handed and give the her the cold shoulder in fear of wanting to "settle" which is a sad shame but ignorant patterns like that go in cycles and needs to broken down and know what your worth is and that goes to people chasing after something that they know isnt their worth and doesnt respect them. I would rather have a regular genuine woman that compliments my worth and respects me instead of the baddest chick in the club high maintenance female that doesn't respect my worth. Keep your head up MsLoni the so called nice guys that gave you the cold shoulder will learn one day or the hard way that they'll always end up right where they stand when they chase after a mere fantasy out of their league.

    4. Just becasue you look good don't mean you are out of anyones league, Hell I don't think you are a good woman because you look good or have a nice body they are called dymes because you can buy ten their butts for an dollar.

  27. Enjoying just reading all of the comments here today PARTICULARY the ones from the Reformed Mr. Nice Guys. *giggle*

    Basically when a women refers to you as being a nice guy/sweet guy 9 times outta 10 she isn't really feeling you like that on that level (sexual attraction), look at it the same way men refer to a women as having a nice/sweet personality….. it cuts both ways ya dig.

    1. This is true because being nice and sweet in itself isn't $exually attractive. If that's all a man brings to the table, he's losing.

      1. BINGO!!!

        That "Oomphf" factor is needed a well, but judging from these comments it's hard pressed (a rarity) for a man to possess all of these at once.

  28. I'm almost certain I'll have to teach my unborn son that women between the ages of 16-25 will confuse the hell out of you. Just do you sonny boi!

    1. There are plenty attractive women between the ranges of 7-10. 7 (average) may seem like you're aiming low, lol. But, personality, an unbalanced combo of face and body (not as cute but the body is hott or cute face and okay body), great style, and chemistry can really set some things off, lol. Expand the list of options is the point being made today… 😉

  29. Me and the women in my circle like nice guys. We want a guy who looks NICE; smells NICE; has a NICE smile; has a NICE personality; comes from a NICE family; has NICE friends; has NICE qualities; has a NICE sense of humor; has a NICE sense of style; having a NICE body is good; most importantly he should treat us NICE. Nice is all about how you define it for yourself. If you are "Nice" and being your authentic self, go with it and find someone "nice" to spend time with.
    Maybe this is just me, but the "friend zone" has always been a great place. Again, it's how you define it. I've had positive experiences of wonderful friendships that deepened and developed over time. The key is to find like minded people. In this arena everyone wins 🙂

  30. I see it like this… Who cares what women where there isn't any mutual interest call us?

    People taking a women's will to be tactful, too literally… She's saying you're "nice" b/c she doesn't want to sound like an a$$ saying her initial reaction in her head probably. I mean have one of those too: "hahaha. Quit playing. *smiles* you know I'm not YOUR type." knowing good and well, it's b/c to me her physical/mental assets are lacking. welp… Does that make me an a$$? I'm still "nice" tho…

    As far as finishing last in the dating game? I look at it like this. How can you ever finish last when there's no race? If you act as if you have to rush to finish line, then you'll miss out on the fun of living. And women are attracted to non-creepy "fun." If you're chilling out and having fun, women will be like: "oh… he look like he's having fun, I want to have fun too." But that's not a secret. people gravitate towards positive energy (they can see).

    We all want to get it in… We all want buns… realistically, that ish is easy to get. However, quality people are not. Quality even means peculiar. Meaning there isn't an abundance of people YOU would consider quality. And guess what, those quality people will see the quality in you. problem solved. So if a person isn't down for what you offer or who you are, then that person isn't quality regardless of their looks or resume. plain and simple. In my book, that means: "Chances are, they're pretty wack anyway… so…"
    My recent post How to implement an OODBMS (pt. 1)

    1. "People taking a women's will to be tactful, too literally… She's saying you're "nice" b/c she doesn't want to sound like an a$$ saying her initial reaction in her head"

      This is exactly what it is…

  31. The real problem with nice guys and girls is that they always want the people who don't want them.
    My motto is "it doesn't take a whole day to recognize sunshine, " if you can't see my awesomenes then I have no time wasting time on you….simple.

    1. This is true! A lot of people (Lawd knows I was one of them in my younger days) spend their time trying to prove their "niceness" or "goodness." People either appreciate it or they don't. And if you're nice regardless of the situation – not just because it's with this person or that one – then it will come back into your life in ways you can't even imagine…
      My recent post The Waste Land aka The Life of a Single Black Woman

  32. Truth be told, just because a woman may say she wants a nice guy doesn’t mean she wants YOU. Get off yourself. You can have WHAT she’s looking for, but may not be WHO she wants it from. (She may not come out and say this, but she’s thinking it). Of course you’ll find out when you make your move and it’s not accomplishing what you wanted. People have their ideal picture of what their mate is and sometimes you simply won’t fit what she wants. It sucks, but deal with it. Would you sit outside and pine away at a company that didn’t hire you though you may have interviewed well? I hope not. They’ve made their choice; take your dose of Getdafcukoverit and make moves so that you don’t miss the woman that will say yes.

  33. You said something key…NO HIDDEN AGENDA, lol.

    More often than not, in the event that a woman has disclosed her interest to a man…and he choses to keep her around as a "friend", her interest will NOT dissipate…it will grow.

    1. Until she finds out he's gay, LOL! That happened to a friend of mine. She was secretly crushing on her friend. One day she found the courage to tell him. He said he just wanted to be friends. She was pretending to be cool with it, but still secretly crushing until she realized he was gay. He had waaaaaaay to many gay friends and a gay room-mate he liked to wrestle with. He never came out and said it, but once her eyes wer open to all of that she quickly moved on.

  34. Hmmm…. I'm just curious where all these *honestly* nice guys are. Maybe I'm a d-bag magnet, but most of the dudes I know, when s**t hits the fan, are not really nice or really all that "good." They are not selfless, as a matter of fact, they clearly are looking out for themselves. Not saying they don't exist, but I do agree that a lot of guys/girls use it as an excuse when they aren't getting the results they want. IMO most people in general are not truly nice, they are just using the front of doing nice things as a strategy to get what they want. Some people are forceful and aggressive and some people are nice. I have to say, I'm probably guilty of becoming disinterested because a guy is too nice. However, I agree that there has to be a balance between being a caring dude, who cares about your woman and knowing when to call her on her ish. Maybe that does make a good guy.

  35. This is a great post and reading this post definitely put a great perspective to my thinking as to the old saying that nice guys finish last. In so many ways it's not necessarily that nice guys finish, you can be a man that's nice and have self respect, common sense and a backbone. Being nice doesn't mean you have to be anyone's pushover and if that woman that you go after turns you down and attempts to place you in the friend zone, its time to move on away from that woman and go after women that respect your self worth. As for finishing last, why would you continue to go after a woman that doesn't respect your self worth, place you in the so-called friend zone in the first place? Truth be also told that being a nice guy just doesn't always cut out the way it is and you can be that nice guy but not that right man for that woman who says she wants a nice guy, I know that if I was in a position of not being appreciated for who I am as an individual it would be in my best interest to keep moving on until I find that woman that appreciates and respects my value as a man. It takes more than just being a nice guy, having a backbone, common sense and self respect and the dignity to move on after being turned down by that woman is what seperates the real genuine nice men from the spineless no backbone having dr jeckyll/mr hyde nice guys who are the main ones at fault for going after women that dont respect them that finish last.

  36. Definition of "nice" is important here. Because for me, when I see a guy who isn't nice, i.e. doesn't treat everyone around him respectfully (especially his family), I'm instantly turned off. If he's only nice to people he can get something from, he's not going to be treating me well in the future. Then again, if nice means not taking the initiative, then I'm not going to be with a nice guy. However, I've had some nice men approach me and I just think it takes them longer than usual to make their move. They will, eventually. And the good thing about nice men is that if you turn them down, they'll be ok with it and still be your friend afterwards.

    And I am currently with a nice guy. That was the second reason I chose him. (First was, obviously, his looks.)

  37. Nice guy should really be called simp lol. Trying to make everyone happy does make people like you but you have no backbone. People need to like AND respect you. Once I learned that, my nice guy aka "simp" days were over

    1. And truth be told, that’s the key to failing: trying to please everyone else. Not everybody is going to like you anyway, so do what you do and not wait around for somebody else to come around.

  38. I am in the same predicament with a guy that I'm currently dating (www.loveinthea.com/still-stuck-on-mr-track) and will label myself as the nice girl. I am also guilty of not being interested in the nice guy for the lack of confidence and the obvious stench of desperation to please (www.loveinthea.com/bye-bye-mr-high-school-for-real-this-time). Nobody wants someone who is desperate and insecure no matter how nice they are.

    What I can appreciate about this article is that your advice is not to tell the nice people to stop being nice, you're saying that keep being yourself with some minor touch-up to your confidence level and approach and people of your romantic interest will begin to appreciate you more. Nothing worse than the nice guy/girl who turns into the bitter reformed sweetheart because they are trying to seem less emotionally scarred and sad.

    1. Thanks for checking out the post and leaving a comment. Telling people to stop being nice would definitely be poor advice. I really belief most problems are rooted in confidence and image of self.

  39. I really enjoyed this piece. You are absolutely right when you say that most women out here today dont know the difference between what they want and what they need in a man. I blame that mostly on unrealistic expectations that have been formed from pop culture, urban music and a lack of real life examples of what a man and a woman together in a healthy unselfish loving giving relationship. I think nice people (male and females) are what I call generally givers. IMO givers need to connect with other givers. As a matter of fact I dont believe a relationship can be good for both people unless they both come selflessly into the relationship. I am a nice girl, but I have learned like you that I have often in the past done all the right things for the wrong men and have learned from my mistakes and am seeing a huge difference in the way that my interactions with men go since coming to that realization. Now I like you have men poping up everywhere wanting a committed relationship and I am able to look at their qualities in hopes of narrowing them down to the right one for me. Thank you for your piece it was well written. I will be following your articles going forward and I am going to share this with my group on Fb "strong Lovers" Please check out my site when you have a chance and let me know what you think about some of the things I have to say about love relationships and dating from a female nice gals perspective http://www.danilovestrong.com

  40. I loved your post! I just had this discussion about "nice guys" and how today people need to make the distinction between what that definition really means. It's refreshing to see that a man gets it. You can still be a great, nice guy and get women, you just shouldn't be a pushover because that makes you boring and women in the end are hardwired to want an interesting and exciting man and one who can protect them. Not one who is tripping over himself trying to agree with us all the time. 🙂
    My recent post VIDEO: Thanksgiving Edition – Dating during the holidays

  41. Interesting article! Confidence! The big "C" I call it! The book Uncertainty to Confidence: A New Way of Living Your Life by Karissa Thomas is for both men and women. Men mostly find great rewards within themselves from this book. It's about the way to you look at the things you do and really doing the things you're suppose to be doing; and you find out what you need to do by listening to your HEART! http://www.ineedashift.com

  42. Sigh. Im have been with a great guy for quite a few years, and im thinking about marrying him just because if I look beyond my aversion to his over the top niceness, everythings on the plate for you, giver, simple, repetitive, dull thing, hes awesome. He really is great. But what holds me back is the absolute lack of ANY chemistry. I want him to be confident and assertive, relaxed and solid, as well as kind. I pointed this out to him. I hope I dont get dumped because of that, since I quite like having him as a part of my life, and love him a lot. Its the attraction, respect, admiration part thats the problem. He could work on that I think. I dont know what to do really.

  43. I was a “nice guy” and it never worked out. After I read this article I’ve started manipulating women and taking advantage of the fact that they like to be disrespected and I’ve never had anything work better. The author is completely right, being a “nice guy” doesn’t work. But the second you start treating women like they’re not even close to good enough for you they flock to you in droves! Thanks man, I was never able to be happy being the “nice guy” but now I’ve realized that being a complete asshole is the only way to keep women around and I’ve never been happier.

  44. I stopped dating American women and I am now with an Irish woman and I am very happy the thing is stop running after these hoodrats the only reason you call them good women is because they are good looking have nice bodies what ever but that do not make them a good woman. Move on to women that will want you and leave those other women alone trust me it works.

  45. And one more thing not being a simp, unless she is your girlfriend or what ever don't be buying her drinks at the club or giving her gifts and shit that is some weak mess what has she done other than be pretty for you to buy her stuff. A few month ago I was at this club and this chick was like why don't you by me and my friends drinks I was like am I going to be doing some of you tonight she was like no I said go to one of those simp over there unless I am gettting the ass I'm not buying you shit everybody in the club busted our laughing. I am very honest with women I don't want any friends not a people person LOL if we not dating I don't have time for you, don't want to hear about your worthless man keep it moving.

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