Earlier this week, CNN hosted an article from Parenting.com called Why We Get Mad at Our Husbands. After reading the title, I hoped to find insight on why women get upset with men and steps I could take to avoid the wrath of my future wife. I had no such luck. Instead, I reached the end of the article confused and agitated. Based on a nationally representative sample of 1,000 mothers, I learned women dislike men for not being women. You can access the full article from the hyper-link above but I will highlight a few excerpts for today’s discussion.
Before we begin, let me establish parameters: I’m not married. I don’t have kids. I’m a man. I am not a woman. Therefore, I may be ignorant, biased or both on some of the topics broached in the article. Furthermore, we have word limits here. I can by no means cover the entire article. Below are my opinions on select stats but I welcome debate on the full article…
46% of moms get irate with their husbands once a week or more. About half of the moms describe their anger as intense but passing; 1 in 10 say it’s “deep and long-lasting.”
Many moms — 44 percent — are peeved that dads often don’t notice what needs to be done around the house or with the kids. We hate that we have to tell them what needs to be done.
This is scary. Almost half of women are “irate” with their husbands once a week? I can’t remember the last time I was irate this year. This relates to the timeless “you should know what I’m thinking” mindset a number of women – many of them falling into this category I’m sure – seem to genuinely believe. Breaking news: Men don’t read minds. Try telling us what’s bothering you. Yes, every time.
40% are also angry that their husbands seem clueless about the best way to take care of kids.
40% of moms are mad that Dad can’t multitask.
“He said that’s my job,” she says. “Since we’ve been married, he has cooked twice that I can remember. He doesn’t know how to operate the dishwasher. He’s never vacuumed.”
33% of moms say their husbands aren’t shouldering equal responsibility and are less concerned than they are about their children’s basic needs, like nutrition and clothing. What these moms wish: that their husbands acted more like partners — especially when it comes to the nitty-gritty.
“I cannot remember once — not once — that my husband bought fresh fruit or vegetables, let alone prepared them, for our three children. Now that I think of it, I don’t think he’s ever spontaneously bought any frozen vegetables, either.”
I found this section ridiculously subjective. “The best way to take care of kids” Who knows that? Women, I assume. Further, the two quotes from the women in the story indicate they married men who didn’t cook or eat vegetables and then expected them to magically change into men who would cook for and feed their children vegetables. Is it reasonable? Yes. Are the odds in your favor? No.
I’m reminded of the infamous Albert Einstein quote: Women marry men hoping they will change. Men marry women hoping they will not.
Nearly one third of moms complain that parenthood has changed their lives more than their husbands’.
It’s no wonder that more than one in four moms feels like she spends more mental energy on parenting than dads do.
One thing that can complicate it is the different ways some moms and dads choose to spend their time. Moms tend not to let themselves slack off when there are chores to be done.
“I used to think he did it on purpose and it would make me much angrier,” she says. “Now, I think it doesn’t dawn on him. Guys are just better at compartmentalizing.”
I will admit the first quote is likely true but I’m not sure this is men’s fault. Maybe you feel differently. The next two statements are, again, subjective. Let me get this straight, women are mad at men because, as the final quote accurately summarizes, “guys are just better at compartmentalizing”? Or as someone on Twitter pointed out, many of the issues women find major men find trivial. This doesn’t make either right or wrong, it simply means we think differently. I guess this is no longer allowed in 2011.
The ones we also really need to talk to, however, are our husbands. The fact that so many moms are mad, and that so many of the complaints are similar, is significant. And maybe that can give all of us moms — who love our husbands but wish they’d just be…more like us — the push to make some changes, to delegate more and demand more for ourselves.
Why We Get Mad At Our Wives: The entire article could be summarized using only this paragraph. As a man who looks forward to being married one day, it’s scary to think that my wife-to-be may sit around harboring so much internal anger towards me on issues I’m completely unaware of because – and Lord please forgive me – I do not think, act, clean, read her mind and raise kids exactly like her. I didn’t know marriage and raising kids is a competition. Even if it was it’s less telling to compare mothers to fathers than it is to compare mothers to mothers and fathers to fathers. This is not to dismiss the plight of women, which I know exist, but it is to say your ass is not perfect.
More importantly, I would venture to say the average husband does not sit around thinking of ways to make your life miserable. In fact, he likely wants to make you happy. Your happiness makes his life more bearable and easy; two things men really like. If you disagree, then I have a simple question for you: why did you marry and/or have kids by this man? But, I’m sure the fact that you married a man who, unlike you, is not perfect is his fault and naturally, this makes you angry.
I turn it over to you now.
Married, single, kid and kid-less men and women alike, what do you think of the statistics presented in the CNN article? Can you relate? Are these women rightfully mad? Is it the men’s fault? What should one or both partners do to better address the issues covered above?
The only thing that stuck out to me in the article was the part about the husband that comes home and wakes up the sleeping infant and then leaves her for her mother to take care of. Now that would be make me drop kick him into oblivion.The vast majority of the unhappiness seems to involve marriages with children. I have a daughter, but I'm not married. But I would just have to tell him what is expected of him and ask him to help. When I had my daughter I didn't automatically know what to do, I had to be taught. I think the way to avoid the anger due to overwork is to engage a man early on in the process, and hopefully he'll eventually feels comfortable doing those tasks instead of just dismissing his efforts and then getting mad that you have to do everything yourself.
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I am not married, nor do I have kids. (Starting like that makes me feel like I'm at an AA meeting…. But I digress…) I'm constantly confused by the married with kids dynamic, and here's why…. I've heard a number of people I kow refer to the time the husband/father spends "watching" the children as "babysitting"…. In my mind, babysitting is what occurs when some teenager comes to your house to watch your children while you're away. Last time I checked, spending time with your OWN children was called "parenting"… Perhaps I'm crazy. However, I bring this up because I think it's telling of the overall attitude that some women/wives have toward their other (significant or otherwise). You ever hear the phrase – "treat people as you'd like to be treated"? Well, it applies here – however, there's a small offset to this way of thinking – treating others a certain way, also shows them how you want to be treated. You want him to read your mind? Try reading his first.but don't be shocked when all you find there is his genuine inability or inclination to read yours. Respect what you see there or you'll be in for a world of disappointment. My point here is: you can't expect him to cater to your every need if you don't tell him what you want, you can't expect to act like his mother and then NOT have him act like a child. As your mother taught you when you were a small child: use your words. Mama knows best. Do what she says.
No, you're not crazy. I know plenty of moms who treat their husbands like third rate babysitters.
I'll bite. And, I'll stick to answering the questions.
1. what do you think of the statistics presented in the CNN article? I think they're pretty accurate. I know many women, wives and mothers, who get angry at their husbands. For some, its that he isn't considerate when it comes to household chores, or even just watching the kids while she's doing something else. The men just don't consider that she may need a break. For the others, the hubby doesn't do what she asks him to do, so instead of continuing to ask him, she does it herself, and harbors anger because she thinks she has to do everything herself, her husband doesn't listen. The longer the anger goes on, the more likely she begins to resent his very existence in her life, which is obviously problematic for everyone involved, especially the kids.
2. I can't relate. I don't have kids, and I'm not a wife. But, darn near every wife/mother combo I know is Superwoman, but doesn't really want to be. She'd actually rather her husband work with her than let her do it all. I think a lot of young women like to pretend they can do it all, but what's the point of a husband if he can't be a helpmate in all areas of the marriage, including the raising and rearing of children? And vice versa if the man is the one raising the kids while mom works. ( had to stick that in there to quell future argument beginning with "what about men… blahblahblah)
3. Yes, they are rightfully mad. They have a right to be upset just as men have a right to be upset if their wife never cooks or cleans. Thing is, it seems to be more socially acceptable for a man to expect his wife do those things, and understandable if he gets mad when she doesn't. Yet, it seems that it isn't acceptable for a woman to expect a husband to help around the house and with the kids, and most people can't or won't be able to understand why she's so upset. Its unfortunate, really.
4. If your wife is constantly asking you for help, and you don't give it, yes, its the man's fault. If the wife never speaks up about what's bothering her, never asks for help, or suggests that her husband does something to help with the kids, then it isn't his fault if he doesn't know. However, I have a hard time believing any husband can't see that the kitchen needs to be cleaned, or mom is cooking, so let me deal with the kids. And I can't believe a man doesn't know when his wife is upset. This is your wife, the person you are supposed to know better than anyone, and yet you are oblivious to her mood, her body language? Surely, you do not need to be told to be considerate of this woman you made vows to before God and your family? I'm sure its possible, but, really?
5. They have to talk it out. COMMUNICATION IS KEY!! The wife has to be clear and concise in what she needs from her husband, and when she needs it, and the husband has to listen. Really listen, not just assume she's being overly emotional and just nagging, and thus assuming that what she's saying isn't valid. Hard to communicate with someone when they're going into it thinking of an argument against you. That person isn't listening!! My parents worked in tandem. My mother did all of the PTA and school stuff, my father was the disciplinarian, and they both helped around the house. I don't know if they discussed how things would work out, but it seemed to be understood that my father had to contribute more than a paycheck, and my mom had to contribute more than cooking and cleaning.
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Thanks for replying. I think we already know we're going to have to agree to disagree based on our Twitter discussion but I'll respectfully respond.
1. As I said in the post, men don't know what you don't tell them. If a woman thinks she has to do everything herself, rightly or wrongly, it will likely become a self-fulfilling prophecy. My thing is these men and women likely lived a part long before they got married. Kids is another aspect, which I can't comment on since I dont have any.
As far as household chores go, I'm pretty sure that man or woman lived on their own at some point and somehow the chores still managed to get done. What I believe is happening is the men and women begin to cohabitate through marriage or whatever and the chores are not done up to the standard of the man or the woman. This doesn't mean they're not done it means they're not done how he/she wants, which is a control issue at heart.
It's like work, if you're boss always belittled your efforts and re-did every thing you submitted to them, eventually you're going to do the bare minimum or nothing at all because you know they will still find fault even in your best work. Of course, I think the real culprit here is a number of these women married the first man that asked and not necessarily the man they were most compatible with. Assuming, like a number of women, they would be able to make the man they're with into the man they want during the marriage. This idea that men can be trained like dogs is amusing.
2. Fair enough.
3. I disagree with your premise. I'm not sure it's more socially acceptable for a man to get upset with his wife who never cooks or clean. Even if he does, like some of the women in this story, I think it's the man's fault if you marry a woman who never cooked or cleaned then get mad at her for not cooking and cleaning. She never did, so why would she magically start? It seems both men and women would be better served to align what they want with who they're with instead of trying to change who they're with to what they want – and failing.
4. However, I have a hard time believing any husband can't see that the kitchen needs to be cleaned, or mom is cooking, so let me deal with the kids. And I can't believe a man doesn't know when his wife is upset. This is your wife, the person you are supposed to know better than anyone, and yet you are oblivious to her mood, her body language? Surely, you do not need to be told to be considerate of this woman you made vows to before God and your family? I'm sure its possible, but, really? Wow. I don't even know how to respond to this. Men don't understand women? This surprises you? Men don't know when a woman is upset? He can't read her "body language"? This surprises you too? If you – or any woman – plans to have a marriage or even a relationship where you dont have to VERBALLY communicate with your husband no matter what you THINK he knows I believe you'll be in for a rude awakening and a plethora of misunderstandings. Good luck. I truly hope that body language, mind reading, sociologist/psychologist/husband is out there for you.
5. They have to talk it out. COMMUNICATION IS KEY!! The wife has to be clear and concise in what she needs from her husband, and when she needs it, and the husband has to listen. I would feel a much greater joy in reading this comment – which I agree with – if it didnt blatantly contradict #4. Communication IS key. Verbal communication. This "body language" he "can't see the kitchen needs to be cleaned" (I agree with the kids part) viewpoint misses me. I believe it will miss a lot of men. As I said in the post, you're assuming what bothers you equally bothers him. That doesn't even make sense. If he thought the kitchen was dirty, he'd clean it. Obviously it doesn't bother him enough to do so, it bothers you. The fact that some women believe they're above telling their man when they're upset will never cease to amaze me. The idea that these women would rather be upset or hold onto the idea that their husband is purposefully trying to upset them is beyond me but to each their own.
If you're with a man you genuinely believe does not want you happy, I think that's your fault. If you believe your husband does want to make you happy but you shouldn't have to tell him how to make you happy because of pride, ego, or just being a woman, I think that's your fault too. I guess I'll just have to pray I either know how to make my woman happy by chance or she's not above telling me. Regardless, I'm sure we will all find someone to deal with us eventually.
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I see you missed that first part to #4, which related perfectly to my #5. You skipped to the part that you disagreed with instead of seeing that I was actually agreeing with you, but chose to put forth a separate analysis of the situation. Five does not contradict four at all.
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If your wife is constantly asking you for help, and you don't give it, yes, its the man's fault. If the wife never speaks up about what's bothering her, never asks for help, or suggests that her husband does something to help with the kids, then it isn't his fault if he doesn't know. This is the beginning to #4, suggesting that the wife has to communicate to her husband what she needs from him, and she shouldn't assume anything. At the same time, the part you quoted still stands. Yesterday, Slim mentioned in his post that when he returned from the restroom, he could tell something was off, which is why he asked his date what was bothering her. He read her. Some people can do this, some people can't. I guess the lesson here is that you have to recognize the kind of man or woman you're with, and act accordingly. And in some cases, hope for the best.
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I didn't miss the first part of #4, I was, however, in disagreement in the transition after "however," which is why I highlighted that section. Slim's article, in my opinion, is the exception not the rule. To assume a man will always be able to read your body language or know when something is wrong is flawed. As this very article demonstrates, a number of these women hold this anger in and have been angry for a longer period of time than a single incident at the club, which indicates their husbands either do not know or do not care. I believe it's the former – but I could be wrong.
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1. I hear you. But if I'm married with kids, assuming we've been married at least 5 years, I don't think it flawed to expect my husband to see I need help, and then offer it. At the same time, I would also expect my hubby to listen to what I need, and act accordingly, and I would do the same for whatever he needs.
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2. I know women who like this, and I know their husbands, Unfortunately, it seems men get married, have kids, and then regress. Or, at least some of the husbands/fathers I've seen do. Of ocurse, its not all, but its enough to make me realize that this was a valid article. And in regards to the women who hold this anger in, many women believe strongly in the old gender roles, and they don't want to upset their husbands by appearing to be a nag. Unfortunately, holding it in can have dire consequences for everyone involved. Which is why communication key. However, people tend to forget that effective communication requires speaking and effective listening, on both parties. Perhaps the listening is part of the problem.
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I wanted to finish trading this article but couldn't get past the fact that the word "allowed" was spelled "aloud". Writers who can't spell words correctly disgust me. Words are your career. Why haven't you learned to use them properly?
Why haven't you found "the contact us" form to submit your concern/question rather than derailing the discussion by pointing out a spelling error?
We aren't perfect but I think we do a pretty damn good job here. The error will be fixed and hopefully you can then move on to the rest of the article and the actual discussion. Good day.
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It was clearly was a mental slip, and not a spelling mistake. If you made it to that point, it should have been obvious that he's not particularly reckless with his writing.
Apologies. We appreciate you trading our articles though.
I caught that too. LQTM
Sweetie, when you write such a comment, make sure said comment doesn't have any spelling or grammar errors of its own. Right now, I'm disgusted…
Happy Friday!! 🙂
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Y’all could have just said, thanks for pointing it out and left it at that. All these comments ridiculing the comment. It looks kinda….idk. Especially when you gang up. Not a good look.
So, the husbands in this story:
– Decide to wake up exhausted mother + baby because he feels the baby doesn't need that much sleep. But of course, once awake, baby is mom's duty.
– Do not help around the house without being specifically instructed to do so. Can take initiative on the job, but not at home.
"I hate nagging," she says. "If he asks me to do something, it's done. But if something doesn't matter to him, why should he bother?":
– Need to be told what to do repeatedly (please note the case of the injured woman whose husband has neglected the bath tub for some time)
I'm not a feminist, but I've certainly taken classes in which we've studies the effects of the skewed distribution of responsibilities within the household. It's easy to think we're looking at certain things objectively, but the truth of the matter is a lot of things fall disproportionately on the women. Let's not kid ourselves, there still isn't a high percentage of men who are willing to [attempt to] even out the playing field. Both will come home from a 9-5, and Mommy will be the one to cook, clean, tend to little Johnny, and have to repeatedly ask Daddy to help Cassandra do her homework. These things take a psychological and physical toll, and it's not as though these women do not voice their desire for the men to be more active within the household. It's really not far-fetched to imagine that these women feel irate at least once a week. I personally dislike repeating myself, even when talking to children, and I certainly don't see why a grown ass man cannot contribute towards the upkeep of his household without being explicitly asked to do so.
However, these are things that I would have taken into account before saying "I do." I'm not pressed or desperate to marry, so I wouldn't be interested in anyone who is not likely to pull his weight in our home.
This…ALL of this!!! I won't even bother writing my own cuz you have completely spoken my mind lol
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"Both will come home from a 9-5, and Mommy will be the one to cook, clean, tend to little Johnny, and have to repeatedly ask Daddy to help Cassandra do her homework. These things take a psychological and physical toll, and it's not as though these women do not voice their desire for the men to be more active within the household. It's really not far-fetched to imagine that these women feel irate at least once a week."
^ This is the reason that my married/LTR friends with children complain constantly about their relationships. And why my brother and his woman of 11 years had to call it quits. And why if I ever get married 'shared governance' will be included in our pre-nuptial discussions.
Well to be fair it was women who when primarily were the home makers CHOSE to go out and work and pursue careers. It was your choice to take on both roles. So now that you chose to play double duty, you're angry that men haven't made the same choice??? Your choice, deal with it.
Not to mention that even from women, it's not socially acceptable nor appealing for a man to be a home maker. Image meeting a man, and upon asking him what are his aspirations in life, he responds "I just wanna be a stay at home husband, raise kids, and take care of the home." HOW MANY WOMEN WOULD DISAPPEAR QUICKER THAN A NINJA??????
Women chose to row on both sides of the boat, men were perfectly fine rowing on the left side. Don't get mad when you choose to also row on the left, and we don't opt to also row on the right.
@Rick: Well to be fair it was women who when primarily were the home makers CHOSE to go out and work and pursue careers. It was your choice to take on both roles. So now that you chose to play double duty, you're angry that men haven't made the same choice?
This will not be a popular comment but whether we like it or not, it's an accurate comment. Is it fair? No. Accurate. Yes.
I've long said that both parties – men and women – are actually quite selfish. They're only truly vested in changing circumstances they find unfair and that directly affect them. In other words, gender roles are only a problem when they unfairly affect a man/woman. I generally don't hear either complaining about the gender roles that benefit them. It's an interesting dynamic.
For the record, this can be said about almost any -ism; classicism, racism, etc etc. Just look at Occupy Wall Street, for example, these issues didn't happen over night. They've begun affecting a larger community than just the poor and now all of a sudden it's a major issue. Anyway, I don't want to derail the topic of my own post. The point is people are egocentric and therefore biased in what they deem the most important problems; with those that affect them directly often seeing the most (or only) attention.
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I think it's an accurate statement that women chose both roles for two reasons 1) financial support. There aren't that many wome who can be stay at home moms, they have to work 2) what happens after kids are gone. If you've given your life to your kids it doesn't necessarily translate into marketable skills when re-entering the workforce. So a good deal of women got degrees then became wives so that they would have options after the kids no longer needed constant tending.
By being the primary breadwinner, I think men will also feel undervalued because their kids see them as strangers.
Either way, I think you're right in saying that we are inherently selfish and constantly seek what's best for us individually then complain when it's not all we thought it would be.
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Choose? Are you serious? How many households can survive on one income. The back flips some if you people do to blame the woman makes my brain hurt.
Historically his comment is very accurate. These days, living off of one income isn’t impossible. You just have to budget like any other time.
Actually a good deal of households can survive on 1 income, the problem comes about when 1 member tries living like the Jones' or when there simply is no plan. You have to have planning or else a household won't even be able to survive off of 2 incomes….. even when I was working at AMC Theaters during my collegiate years, I made enough & handled my money correctly that I could have taken care of a family in an apartment.
Obviously it wouldn't be until the next job that a house would be sustainable also!
Women made their choice, men didn't make the same choice!
Good ass comment here!
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Dang that was a long article full of b@tching and moaning. I couldn’t even finish it but I’ve got three words of advice for those women. PUT OUT MORE. You’ll be less uptight and he’ll be more inclined to “help out” to make sure you’re not too tired at the end of the day.
Krystl, from what you've shared about your husband, he sounds responsive and responsible. Do you think that sex would be at the forefront of your mind if you were boggled down with chores/childcare and regularly frustrated?
Naij, I was only 28% joking and 72% serious. If you'll allow it I'll tell you about my friend. She is constantly complaining about her husband not "helping" around the house, he doesn't do this, he doesn't do that. When he finally does do something it's not even good enough. Then she gonna turn around and tell me that they don't get it in for weeks at a time, once a month if that. I noticed the correlation and took it to my hubs. I'm like "yo can you believe that?" He's like "I'm not even gonna lie, I find myself trying to do extra to make sure you're not too tired." I burst out laughing. Some folks might not like that but I appreciated his honesty on it. First of all, a man does not "help" around the house okay. This is his house too dammit. He contributes to the mess, he contributes to the cleanup. I'm sorry but I hate that wording. It's like what somebody else said upthread that she doesn't like when people say the husband is babysitting the kids. WTF? Naw! These are his kids too and he takes care of them.
Anyway, I think I was blessed with a really great husband. He is not perfect, has some character flaws, and sometimes leaves his dirty clothes on the floor. Don't like it but if I don't want to see his clothes on the floor I'll just pick them up. It is that easy. If I want to be passive aggressive about it, I just won't wash his stuff if it doesn't make it into the hamper. Him: I'm out of underwear. Me: REALLY? I was washing stuff just yesterday. Was it in the hamper? That's as far as that goes but I'm not gonna get bent out of shape over housework. I refuse to let that be the source of any frustration for me. But really, we're a team around here and we try to take care of each other. It is not unusual for him to say you seem a bit stressed, why don't you go upstairs and take a nap while I take the kids or if you're tired I'll make dinner tonight. Matter of fact, I find myself having to tell him to set down somewhere sometimes because he just can’t sit still and gotsta be doing something. And he’s great with the kids. He was made for this sh@t is the best way I can describe it.
All that said, the only thing I remotely related to in the article was the vegetable thing. For me it was more about him not wanting to eat any vegetables other than green beans and corn. I wanted him to set a better example for our kids. I TALKED to him about it and he became more open minded about the vegetables he eats. It may have taken me nearly ten years to get the man to try cabbage but finally he did. Every day after work, he calls home and asks me if there’s anything I need him to pick up. If we need vegetables I’ll ask for it. Better yet, I’ll text him the list so he doesn’t forget anything. If all I say is can you pick up something for dinner, can I really be mad if he didn’t grab a vegetable? No because I relinquished control in that situation. I will clown him to the high heavens to his face and then march over to the freezer and pull out the frozen veggies I stocked up on when they were on sale because I could foresee this happening one day. My husband is my teammate. People forgive their teammates when they slip up right? And he gives me the same courtesy because I ain’t perfect either (hard to believe ain’t it? Lol)
) I just refuse to take score in that area of life because I have spots I slack off on too. I have too much to be thankful for to be regularly frustrated over minor things. Back to my friend, the kids were in bed one night the hubs is sitting on the couch, she’s washing dishes. He tells her that it can wait to come sit with him and have some QT. Her response? No I have to do this right now or else it won’t get done. She missed out on precious moments with her husband over what? A bowl? When she told me this, I was like honey you wash dishes every day, that dish could’ve waited for tomorrow, your husband could die tonight from a freak PS3 accident and you missed out on some moments with him. I just don’t see the emergency that is housework. Priorities are people then things. I clean up before he gets home so he can come in to a clean house but if I don’t get to something, oh well. If I want him to do it, I just ask and he does it. That was long and drawn out but this is a rant I’ve had in me for a while.
Oh and one last thing, this is his home too. He works hard and deserves some rest and relaxation too. This home is his haven for that. If he doesn't want to help (which I can't even remember that ever happening), that's his prerogative. I'll get to it the next time I come around.
Krystllyght you and your husband need to get the freakin couple of the year award……
All that you said your marriage is – Now thats what I'm talkin about….If I had all that my life would truly be "golden"
You are truly blessed…..*smile* Mad Props.
Thank you Breebree. You're sweet! We have our problems just like anybody else though, housework just isn't one of them. Don't worry girlfriend your life can be golden in it's own way.
This woman gets it!!
In regards to your girl though, there may be some underlying deeper issues besides him just not helping around the house and lack of chexy time. *JustAThough*
Honestly? Honestly, I think she likes playing the victim.
@krystllyght: I wish I could give all your comments today a 100+ thumbs up. I think you get it, especially the team dynamic. This seems to be missing in the article and among a lot of the commenters. People seem to view the relationship as a competition rather than a team. They can do them.
I think Most also presented a great argument above about what you're doing for you versus what you're doing for "us" and how people confuse the two. I thought you really brought it home with your examples.
Well thank you WIMzino. I thought I was gonna get slapped on the wrist for admitting my moment of passive aggression though. It doesn't happen often but it has happened.
Why do women get that worked up about house chores? I will laugh and commiserate with the other women in our office about our husband's little tacky habits – but I'm not sitting around MAD at the brotha! I don't have OCD, dishes in the sink for 3 days is not gonna kill me.
Honey I do not even know. Nobody sits up on their death bed talking about I wish I would've scrubbed the floor more often. Naw! People then things! People then things!
I also think that some of these women are just unrealistic. What helped me with the dishes though is getting rid of some of them. I can run out of plates in one day, that'll encourage somebody to do them becaue they need a plate for later. What helped me with my own laundry is getting rid of 75% of it. I realized that if it is so hard for me to keep up and I just need so much "help" with it then I just have too much and something's got to go. I will not be a slave to my belongings!
@krystllyght: Best. Comment. Ever.
I was waiting for the wisdom of a married woman, LOL! As my 96 yr old great aunty who was happily married for 68 yrs says "I can't tell you what will work for you-but, I can tell you what worked for me" 🙂
Another great point Camille…you have to figure out what works best for you and stick to that.
Camille, you are so sweet! I don't have the answers for everything and you're great aunty is a G. What works for me won't always work for you. Classic.
LOL…that is a mess. The kitty doesn't work when you aren't in sync with your mate. In fact…you wouldn't screw him with a borrowed kitty when you are fed up with him. lmao…
lol borrowed kitty! That's the thing though, I don't remember the last time I was fed up with him. We just try to take care of each other that's all.
"We just try to take care of each other that's all."
But that part is the missing key in some of what I read in that article. I still don't get some comments I read earlier talking about women expecting men to read minds. I'm pretty sure the frustration being vented was based on their partners ignoring explicit requests. If I see that my partner has a lot on his plate, I'll naturally seek to lessen his load without any prompting. I know men like your husband who are the same way, so it's not a foreign concept. But you have to understand that things get [more than] a bit frustrating when you have the opposite scenario at play.
You ain’t neva lied…. Cuz when he knows at the end of that day he is going to get his toes curled… He becomes more inclined to help and do what’s needed to get to the bedroom quicker. My Ex was a hands on dad and cleaned like nobody’s bizness. I was truly lucky and blessed and sore..
You gotta Give Some 2 Get Some
G6 you and me are >>>>>here<<<<.
I heard that Krystllyght….I still can't for the life of me figure out why some married women are so uptight when it comes to sex with their own damn husbands and why so many married couples don't have sex……????? wtf…….???
Girl I know! I think they would be less frustrated about these minor things if they were getting it in more often. I won't act like we're slinging it every night, especially not since I started class back up and I wind up doing homework most nights. I might wake him up for it but sometimes, it's just too late but I think when you stop getting intimate with your hubs, things go downhill quickly and you start taking score on stupid sh@t.
True that ….thats never a good look.
So you’re saying a man needs sex in order to feel inspired to do his fair share around the house? It’s that simple and easy? Youre sure the women in the article are not satisfying their men? Wow, you should write a marriage advice book. It would be one page long, but it would solve all the problems.
I bet you'll be the first one to buy it too.
Nah, I don’t buy books that offer simplistic solutions to complex problems. But there are millions of stupid lazy people who do. Shoot, I might write one myself.
Have you ever watched Cat on a Hot Tin Roof? It's honestly one of my favorite movies. Anyway, Big Momma comes in to talk to Maggie about the problems she and Brick are having. She walks over to the bed and thumps it saying "When there's problems in the marriage, they lie right here Maggie (thump thump) right here".
when you're upset w/ your S/O the first thing to stop is the intimacy because you can't rationalize something so personal when everything else is so wrong. Tension builds, conversation falters, time elapses leaving each partner to elucidate where the rift originated.
I'm not saying having sex will inspire housework, but inside of a marriage (or other very long term relationship) sex isn't just sex anymore.
My recent post Dreamgirl
And it isn't always the women refusing sex, either. Though some people here try to downplay it or pretend it doesn't exist, men get tired, men get fed up, men get all sorts of things and they just do not want to have sex.
HA! That good good doesn't solve all problems – but it damb sure makes them EASIER to solve. Lovin' is the lube that keeps the engine running smoothly.
This entire comment!!
Ha Tef! Gangstawives! I should've mentioned working out too. When I don't work out, I notice my mood goes south and I do get annoyed by stupid stuff but I recognize it for what it is. I'm not about to play victim or martyr over this type of thing. I've got too much other stuff going on in my head.
Two quotes that I thought were hilarious: "None of us signed up to live in a sitcom." "And more than anything else, we're mad that they get more time to themselves than we do."
Im the youngest of 5 with all of my siblings married with kids. I don't know how they do it. But I do have a few questions when looking at a potential mate:
1) how did he eat, wash clothes, clean up, etc before I came along?
2) during a family holiday, does he expect him mother/sister/me to prepare his plate?
3) if there are children around, how does he respond when they cry?
If he eats out, only washes clothes when he's run out of his reserves, and his apartment is messy (not unclean just unorganized) you can pretty much guess at what you're going to be getting into. This man was single for x amount of years during which he ingrained his own standard of living.
If he expects one of the women to make him a plate (i.e. my dad, my brothers, my bros-in-law, my nephew) it's obvious that he's used to a a little catering. And women, don't fake like we don't do it. Hell Destiny's Child wrote a whole album about it. He has unspoken expectations, and you will try to meet them to keep them (especially if you're in love… sometimes just to keep the peace). At the same time, I wouldn't even blink for making my dad his plate, or washing his clothes, or spending three hours at the doctor with him to make sure he receives the best care (i.e. my thanksgiving), so if my boyfriend sees this, knows this, should he expect that I will do less for him?
My bro-in-law during thanksgiving heard his son crying in the other room, his response: "Yo wife, your son is crying". I don't know what you expect, the 2 or so years you dated and the subsequent 2 years of marriage you were super woman. Just because you decide to change that after a baby doesn't mean that he's going to change his habits. A lot of men don't know their role in the first two years of a baby's life. It's not innate for them to respond "correctly" because that's not what's expected of them. Traditionally they were the providers, then the disciplinarians, then the adoring dad, and finally the listening ear when mom gets on your nerves. If you want him to be more involved then teach him how, trust him enough to be alone with the baby while you take personal time, and allow him to make mistakes!
I don't think men & women have honest conversations about what marriage, babies, living together really entails until after the vows are spoken. This is what I've seen… I'm just waiting to be proven wrong.
I totally agree with this comment!!
I find myself making sure my apartment is spotless, cooking, fixing plates, picking up plates when the boo comes over. I don't mind doing these things but doing them once or twice a week is different than doing them everyday and its certainly different than doing it everyday with kids. I believe we as women initially want to show men that we can be a good wife and we believe doing these proves our point, but we need to be a bit more realistic as to what it will actual translate to in a marriage. The bottom line is to clearly communicate your needs and to know exactly whats expected of you and rely whats expected from you before you get married, after you get married, before you procreate and once the baby arrives.
Great comment Brit.
My recent post Niggas in Paris to Infinity and Beyond
Cosign justlissen….many of my guy friends and a few ex's have told me that women need to have more patience with them and teach them. If you got a good man who is teachable then to me that's pretty damn "Golden." At least you have someone who is willing to learn.
"I don't think men & women have honest conversations about what marriage, babies, living together really entails until after the vows are spoken. This is what I've seen… I'm just waiting to be proven wrong."
Cosign on that too justlissen….same here.
I agree Breebree. It's funny that a number of women have compared the marriage to work. I want to expand on that dynamic. This assumption that a man doesn't need to be trained – for lack of a better word – is comical. Most men (most) are willing to learn and be taught if they don't feel belittled along the way.
Using the work example, just because a man is a good Manager doesn't mean he'll immediately be a good CEO. As a manger he might have the tools to be successful as CEO but he will need to learn and train on the job. As the old saying go, it's hard to get "on the job experience" for a job you've never held. I feel women want men to know without training or learning. When they get frustrated he's not learning fast enough or – in their mind – not trying, they take over the job themselves then wonder why he never helps out. It's sort of like the Manager doing the job of the CEO then getting mad the CEO never pitches in. Maybe you should either teach him/her or sit back and let him/her do it their way as long as it gets done. I wrote a commandments post before and paraphrasing it said: "You can either ask me to do something or do it yourself. Don't ask me to do something, then tell me how to to it."
It's a familiar theme in these comments that we're overlooking. The expectation for men to be successful as husbands but more so as fathers is so low it seems a number of women expect him to fail from the beginning, then belittle him for failing. Using the example from the story, in my mind, 50/50 does not mean each parents feeds the children fruits and vegetables at every meal. It means each parent ensures the kids are fed. The former is the ideal, the latter is what must happen or there will be no kids. Perfection is a hard standard to attain for both men or women and while desired, should not be the expectation.
My recent post Niggas in Paris to Infinity and Beyond
Exactly Wis…there are no training manuals on how to be good wife and mother or how to be a good husband and father.
It just so happens that society in general pushes women to be wives and mothers as if this defines their womanhood. As opposed to if a man is single with no kids….Double-Standard.
As girls women play with baby-dolls and in playing "mommy" they learn to be moms. Watching their mothers and following the standard of the role of women in the house they learn to cook and clean. One commenter made a good point that women did choose to be more prominent in the workforce and demanded and fought for "Equal Rights", yet many are upset that they are still expected to fulfill their "wifely duties." I think if you have a good man that helps you out then it makes it easier. Almost all of my ex's were pretty well domesticated and were great cooks.
Cosign your entire comment.
This sounds sensible, but basically you are saying the man has no responsibility to behave in a manner that would benefit the family and not just himself. He is entitled to act selfish and lazy. Cause he was raised that way and he shouldn’t have to change just because there are people depending on him.
I don't think that's exactly what I'm saying… My point boils down to the fact that marriage, as an institution/ a status/ a goal, will not inherently change a person. You can't simply expect that after you say "I do" magically a harmony will appear that transcends the upbringing of the individual. I think WIM summed it up nicely when he said that as individuals we are inherently selfish. We look out for what's best for us, and though it's implied that married individuals will look out for what's best for their spouse, then what's best for the family unit, and finally what's best for them; it's not a guarantee.
He isn't entitled to act selfish and lazy, but if he was selfish and lazy before (and as a woman we enabled those traits) don't expect a significant transformation after the wedding. It will take time, work, and communication— before harboring resentment.
My recent post Dreamgirl
So marriage is basically like it always was in America? Coolio.
The following is a question I asked a good friend who is a new mother to a 3 month old baby who called me to complain about her husband; "So…let me get this straight, you're mad at him because you expected him to do something automatically that you didn't even COMMUNICATE to him that you wanted him to do?"
I'm not a wife or a mother (yet), but I told my friend that instead of being angry she should tell her hubby what she needs while they are both adjusting and figuring out their new roles as parents. I also told her they should both talk to their married friends who are parents as a support. I told her I'm always there for her if she needs to vent, but in her new role there's limited advice you can take from your single, childless friends.
True that Camille and great advice. I've told married with children friends the same thing.
I like this Camille. While there are certain things I would not ask my single friends about, I do appreciate a third party's perspective on some issues. Keeping your mind open is important. You're a good friend because you told her what she needs to hear even if she didn't like it. If she doesn't want your advice, she should shut up complaining to you.
Side note- I got in around 11:30 last nite and read all the comments from yesterday. I must have been laughing in my sleep from your 80's dance battle banter LOL!!! But you forgot about the new millenium dance battles (i.e.,You Got Served/ Stomp the Yard). If someone disrespects you get ready to "Greek step it out til the death" and one arm hand stand slide across the floor for the victory, LOL
Girl that is too funny! LMBO
I've been to about 5 weddings this year, and only one of the ceremonies stuck in my mind. The pastor said to the entire audience in attendance, that as witnesses to a marriage you now act as pillars to protect the union of these two people. That means you can't take sides, you can't plot against either one. You are now the additional support that adheres to the long-lasting happiness of the couple/family as a whole.
Yes, the man said it in a more eloquent and spiritual way than my summary, but the main point is still the same: marriage should be forever. And as a witness to that forever, you have an obligation to make sure they both stand firm.
Sometimes we just aren't rational. I wrote in my post "nothing left to say" that I used a million words to discredit the person I was with while I "vented", but I never used one to articulate how much he meant to me.
My recent post Diggin’ on you
I did not read the article… But I read the comments…
I think men need to be more aware of what there wives are going through… Aware in the sense of her emotional state and how she is perceiving the world…
I know their are women who this doesn't apply to, but I will acknowledge the women for whom it does…
lol… Good stuff, Adonis.
Great post Wis
I’m a single black woman with no kids. I have a degree in psychology and being familiar with the inner workings of the human mind and understanding people from a psychological point of view, I agree with you that there are “some” women who do truly want men to be more like them. Therein lies the root of the many problems of relationships. Men are not women, they are men and they do not think like women, they think like men.
Sometimes whats important to a woman is as you said trivial or a little less important to a man.
To answer your questions..
Married, single, kid and kid-less men and women alike, what do you think of the statistics presented in the CNN article? I can believe them. We ladies tend to get irritated over the “little things” because they contribute to the breakdown of bigger things and lead to bigger problems.
We like to “nip stuff in the bud” from the get go so it doesn’t get any worse than what it is. Many ladies are also more in tune with and attentive to emotions and feelings. This is not to say that men don’t get irritated over little things as well, and that men aren’t attentive to emotions and feelings. Men definitely are, just in a different way than women. Unfortunately in a way that some women can’t even begin to comprehend simply because they think a little differently and their response to situations are more feeling and emotion based. This is something I think most people know and understand in 2011, especially men, which is why it will be a long long time if ever that we will have a woman for president and why some men don’t want women in Corporate America….because they feel like they are too emotional to handle business “like a man.”
Can you relate? I can on some levels….I don’t get irritated too often because I’m a person who doesn’t sweat the “small stuff.” In fact on some levels my thinking is like a mans and I understand why they do the things they do. But I’m a woman so some things men do are nerve-wracking and and I cram to understand “Why”? But at the end of the day I chalk it up to men being men and certain “man things” being universal and move on. Some things in life and about each other we may never fully understand and thats ok. Only thing left is to accept it, learn to deal with it as best we can and move on.
Are these women rightfully mad? No they aren’t….except for waking up the baby….As Ladybug said. That would get on my nerves too and my husband would be checked and told not to do that if he didn’t want a taste of his own medicine to see how it felt to wake up a perfectly sleeping baby and then have to be up and deal with the baby when you wanted to get more rest or do other things around the house or whatever.
Is it the men’s fault? It is yes and it isn’t. It is because there are a good number of men who are more like “boys” to a degree….granted men are men in the bedroom….*wink* but when it comes to Responsibility some men can be like boys and have to be told what to do and chastized, and reminded and picked up after, and cleaned up after, and that gets annoying. This causes the women to take on the role of a “mother” to her man/husband. Men don’t like to be treated like boys and women don’t like having to treat a grown azz man like a boy. Bottom line if some men didn’t behave like boys they wouldn’t get that kind of treatment from women.
By the same token, women need to “lighten up” and stop making such a big deak about small stuff that men don’t put as much energy into as they do. One problem is the men aren’t doing every little thing the woman wants them to do when and how she specifically wants it done.
This doesn’t necessarily mean the man is doing nothing at all though. Women should be more appreciative of the things the man does do around the house (if anything) no matter how big or small. As long as he contributes in some way, shape or form to maintaining the household she should be thankful for that and always acknowledge what he does. My grandma taught me to count my blessings and don’t focus on what I don’t have, but be thankful for what I do have and count it all joy.
What should one or both partners do to better address the issues covered above?
The male thinking part of my brain says again women have to accept certain universal things about men that make them male and move on. Never should women try to change a man to be more like a woman because that would make him gay and too much like a “girlfriend” and she wouldn’t want him then. If your man/husband was your more like your “bff” honestly would you be as attracted to him? There would be little to no masculinity for you to be attracted to so…….
The female part of my brain says that many men do need to Grow Up and stop acting like boys and be responsible Men. They do need to help out more around the house, stop making excuses for stuff and do at least some of the things that women want them to do, and yes without always having to be asked to do it first.
Many times when I friends share with me problems they have with their mate/spouse the first thing I ask is “have you told them what your telling me?” Many times the answer is yes but either things change for a little while then go right back to the same old same old, or nothing really changes.
If your telling your partner what you want and need from them and it’s not doing any good then you need to question that person about their level of love for you and why they wouldn’t do what you ask of them if for no other reason than to make you happy. Because at the end of the day I believe you do what you do for the people you love and care about out of love if for no other reason. It’s not always about you when your in a relationship. But. if your married to a selfish person then therein lies the problem and it is what it is…you may be hard pressed to change that person to an unselfish person, and if so it definitely won’t happen over-nite and some assistance may be needed.
I think the root of many couples problems is Communication. Either mis-communication, or lack of communication. If you can get the communication to be consistent, and effective that usually alleviates more than half the problems.
"If your telling your partner what you want and need from them and it's not doing any good then you need to question that person about their level of love for you and why they wouldn't do what you ask of them if for no other reason than to make you happy"
I can't find anything in this comment I disagree with. Thanks for sharing this insight.
My recent post A One Woman Man
Thank you for sharing this article and info and bringin it to the table for discussion.
Definitely something that needs to be acknowledged, talked about, and resolved.
Offtopic. Breebree what is your secret to posting these long comments in just one comment. I gotsta know!!!!!
@krystllyght: I use Chrome and I have no problem with longer comments. If I use Internet Explorer (like at work) it imposes word limits. This isn't a solution more than it is an example…
*turns head slowly and hopes the Money Team has a better answer*
My recent post Great Gift Giving Ideas for Dummies: What Men Want
Oh I see. I think I'm the only one who still uses IE on the laptop. Now that you mention it, I notice when I use my phone to make comments I don't have limits but my fingers are just too fat to do a long comment with it.
I use IE/lap top also and was wondering the same thing.
lmao at the too fat comment krystllyght…….girl your too funny.
btw sorry for being so long-winded with my comments sometimes……I just have a lot to say sometimes…..lol
lol….Krystllyght it's hit or miss honestly…..lol
Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't and I have to keep copying and pasting in seperate pop out boxes…..and yes like Wis said I use Mozilla Fox Chrome as well. I made sure I downloaded it on my work computer.
*relay whats expected from you*
One other point I want to mention is something that resonated with me in the movie Date Night with Steve Carrell and Tina Fey.
When they were in the stolen car together and pulled over to talk she complained about him not helping with the kids and around the house and what not. He told her "If you let me help you more I would. I've tried to help you and you shut me down because you choose to do it yourself because you feel like you can do it better."
"I never once asked you to be "superwoman" so don't be mad at me because you chose to be and it's too much for you." I would love to be your "superman" and help you more if you would just let me."
I myself never thought about that because I am a "do it myself" type of woman. And this goes back to brotha's being irritated about the "Independent Woman" mentality that some ladies have and rightfully so.
I now better understand that men need to be needed and if they don't feel needed they will walk away, or in a marriage shut down and not do anything. Many men do want to be "plugged in" (as Dr. Phil would say).
But sometimes women make it difficult for men to do that, and make them feel as if they got everything under control and he is not needed. They do it all then complain about the man not taking the initiative to step up and say "Hey babe let me get that for you, I got this."
What ladies should understand is that every man doesn't think like this. If your man sees that you got everything under control then he will assume that he is not needed and your fine without him so he won't offer to help because in his mind, based on what he sees, you don't need his help so why would he offer it?"
It's all about communication. It is unreasonable and unrealistic for women to think every man can and will anticipate all of their wants and needs. Yes this would be lovely but it's just not going to happen so ladies need to stop this because we do this much more than men do. Even men that can and will do this in some areas sometimes, won't do this in every aspect of the relationship all the time.
So it's important that we as women communicate clearly, effectively and consistently our wants, needs, and desires to our s/o's and let them know we need them.
A great song about that is Jill Scotts "I Need You"
And if you are expressing your wants and needs to your s/o and they are still not being met and you feel like your being ignored and/or brushed off, then that is a whole nother post.
I agree with this too…VERY good points
+ 1 + INFINITY.
My recent post Guest Blog: You Can’t Write This Stuff
This is true wisdom.
Mehh. I'm single, young, and have no kids so I don't know much about the subject matter but I will co-sign Naija on the responsibility studies and add that I don't think this is anything new, I just think we're in a day and age where women are more vocal in society. 75 years ago, it wasn't kosher for women to complain; they've always been the (silent) rock of the family (and I think this is across all races) and complaining, or expressing their frustrations rather, would undermine that foundation. Also, the medium used to express these frustrations is drastically different. Back then, you'd be complaining in public – to the neighbors – and pretty soon the entire town would know and that would just make your family look back. In 2011, we have the anonymity of technogoly and psych studies, which give women a seemingly fool-proof alternative.
Who are THOSE women? LOL! They are ruining it for the other women. I love that my husband brings what I don't bring to our family and marriage. He isn't me and that what so beautiful. I genuinely appreciate the things the does to make our home happier. Of course we have our moments, but those battles are for more important things than whose cooking and cleaning. It's not that serious.
I think we are seeing a direct result of women not growing up with fathers in the house. How can you know what to expect if you haven't seen it first hand? Trail and error sucks tho. It may suck even worse when you find out that some things are just universally Men.
"I think we are seeing a direct result of women not growing up with fathers in the house."
I dont know about that one. Growing up with a father may be the reason they dont expect a man to do much. My parents have been married for 30 years and I dont think my father has ever washed dishes or anything else. He did other stuff but they were both raised in households where house work was for women folk.
I said that because it would have been expected that MEN change when and if they want to. Sometimes people get in relationships thinking they are going to change someone. People rarely go from 0 to 60, so the signs of what's to come may have been there all along. People like to look at people's potential instead of who they are at that moment. Anyone can be anything at any moment, but what that person is showing you NOW is what you should go by.
If you can't take him not liking to cook, clean etc, don't deal with him. Those things don't change overnight. Some men do prefer a woman do all the housework, that something a women needs to know going in and its up to HER to find out. And when she finds out, complaining won't help.
Your mom must be cool with it, they have been married 30 years. That is beautiful that they have made it work. I do more housework and my husband loves to cook, but that's in my household. My point being that a person should find a person that somewhat fits what they want…although that isn't even fool proof.
"I think we are seeing a direct result of women not growing up with fathers in the house." Good point Kema…..that is quite possible. Or women who are spoiled little "daddy's girls" and used to people kissing their azzes.
Sounds like misplaced anger to me…I mean unless the husband is COMPLETELY inept..which I doubt it. Sounds more like they're upset about particular gender roles and expectations. I've never been married but I would guess that some of the more happier marriages are those where the roles are a bit more fluid.
Half of the moms who took that survey were stay-at-home moms…..aka….that's their job, so they're complaints shouldn't have been included in the survey.
As I predicted, this article and comments pretty much blame women formal behavior. As usual. She knew he was selfish and lazy, shes dumb to expect him to change. Shes not telling him what what to do to make her happy. Mind you, if she does, she’s nagging and he wil feel less motivated to do it, so shes damned if she does and damned if she doesn’t. Finally its her fault for not letting him do it. And his mothers fault for not teaching him not to be selfish and lazy.
Denial may be more than a river in Egypt, but dear WIM, you are swimming in it. This aticle is not about a few ineffective wives who dont know how to run a household. This article represents the majority. The norm. This is marriage and parenthood In 2011. The only difference from 1960 is that women expect more. Equality, passage of time, the fact that shes probably bringing home some bacon, etc.
Fact: most men are selfish and lazy. Nobody is gonna deny that with a straight face. You single? No harm no foul. You’re probably not doing a whole lot of harm doing only what benefits you. Most men take those habits into their marriage and keep them even after kids are born. Its that male privilege y’all don’t want to give up. You know that. Quit fronting.
Fact: women communicate. So to speculate that these women arent asking for what they need is a stretch. They are probably asking 24/7 and the men just choose to tune it out. Let’s be real here.
Fact: any grown man know what it takes to keep a household afloat and has some idea about the basic needs of children. They are capable of doing these things without being told. It is the same mental maneuver men perform when they anticipate what their car will need, plan for it and execute. They simply choose not to do that for their wife and kids.
Men can keep playing deaf and dumb if they think that will work, but this is a major reason divorce is so high. Women initiate most divorces. Women dont have to put up with this nonsense anymore. Women see others being single parents successfully. She makes the calculation. What would my life be without this person who contributes so little? I can get half of what he has and not have to deal with his selfishness and laziness. If shes irate enough for long enough, that love she had for you will make that decision easy. Especially if you are already not participating in raising the kids.
Do yourself a favor and remove your head from your ass.
Dang WC – you go hard in the paint. Your comments makes it like women are thisclose to perfect, while men are just generally garbage. And I'd love to see where all these "facts" are coming from. Most men are selfish and lazy? As a fact? C'mon….that comment says more about you and the company you keep than anything. For someone who claims to be carefree and satisfied with life you sure have a lot of bitter, sweeping generalizations.
You seem to be REALLY into me, my life, the men I associate with and my general happiness. You are all up in the rear end of any comment I make within 2 minutes of the moment I click submit. For the record, I’m straight. Back up off me and let me breathe.
Burn! Ah Wild Kingdom, you've got me – all this time that I've secretly been pining for your overworked ladybits. Don't worry, you're safe. I don't eat jerky.
For reals though, I'm starting to think your azz is bi-polar. Sometimes you have a reasonable opinion, other times you jump all the way to the left with some ole "men ain't ish" diatribe. Men ain't ish because they don't want to wife down a swinger. Men ain't ish because they don't do stuff just the way you would want them to. Based on your comments upthread happy wives ain't ish either. But you get bent out of shape when someone disagrees with you.
And I don't need to back up a damb thing. This is an open forum, you're free to comment and so am I.
You psychoanalyze me more than the looney dudes who wanna try their hand at Captain save a heaux. Ima tell you what I tell them. I am happy with the men I have in my life. And they are happy with me. Your outsized concern is noted, but I dont have fcuks to give. Considering that, you might want to quit looking like a stalker, but that’s up to you. It’s a free country. You have very right to follow me around shouting about my s.ex life.
I comment here a lot – guess that means I'm stalking you, Krystlight, Most, Slim, etc. For someone who says that she is happy with your cubs, you have a lot of complaints. A lot. Your bitterness towards men in general and specific women who are happy with the men they chose is beyond obvious – I'm not the only one who notices, I'm not the only one who'se commented on it. But apparently, since I actually like my husband and don't agree with you, I'm a stalker. I'll be that.
I’m gonna say this last thing and leave it alone. It’s. Not. About. Me. Not for me or any of the people you mentioned. Everybody who disagrees with me, with maybe two exceotions, can say their piece and move on to the next topic of discussion. The only person who can’t seem to get enough of making it about me is you.
And I appreciate TM's insight…
My recent post A One Woman Man
"Fact: most men are selfish and lazy."
Fact: most women are just as selfish and lazy.
"Fact: women communicate."
Fact: women think they communicate. Which obviously isn't the case if their intentions are being misunderstood.
In short, men suck because they don't do exactly what women want them to, when they want them to do it.
We are talking about taking care of a house and children. Are you really saying grown men need to be told to do these things? Really? Can’t figure it out, read a book, observe. Ask questions. Or just take the responsibility for being a partner and do it. Really?
This is women's complaints here. There are plenty of other things men do without a woman's input. There are also plenty of things men get frustrated at that their wives do not do and have to be reminded to do. The thing is you don't see too many articles of men whining about it.
Nowadays, men are also doing household duties traditionally done by women. A lot of women today can't cook worth a damn and the man does the cooking. One of my best friends irons all the clothes because his wife sucks at it. This article is only told from one point of view: what men don't do that women want them to do. The converse is not mentioned.
Tellummayne @ Hugh
Well, submit an article about husband complaints. Is it compare day or are you just saying women should quit complaining?
You won't find many husband complaint articles because we don't feel the need to whine about it. I'm addressing the self-aggrandizing and selfish nature of the women in the article that think they are just sooooo perfect.
Men don’t complain. Or whine. Right.
Compare the books, magazines, plays, articles, songs, etc. about women complaining about men to men complaining about women. Most of that crap is marketed to women. It's not that men don't complain, how often do you read articles about men getting irate with their wives?
Question : are you married? Do you have children?
Other than that…you need more people.
Can't really talk with authority about kids yet because we don't have any…
But One of the things married people have to learn to communicate is what each person feels is being done for "us" and what each person feels is being done for "I". A great deal of miscommunication happens when one person feels they're doing something for "Us" when really it's for "I".
Household chores are a good example. Generally speaking, men like things to be neat and are willing to help keep things neat. Forreal cleaning, like picking up the rug and shaking it out and sweeping up the dust under it, washing the windows and that sort of stuff… it truly never, ever crosses our mind, so long as the house is generally neat and presentable. We don't need a spotless house where you can eat off the floors to be happy. So if a woman is busting her butt to keep an absolutely spotless house, she has to understand that even though they'll both enjoy the benefits of a spotless house she's doing that for her not for them. On the flipside, women usually don't care about electronic stuff. As long as Bravo and HGTV are good to go, they're straight. So if a man spends 25 hours setting up a flat screen with all the channels with an awesome surround sound system and all the necessary accoutrements – he has to understand that even though she's going to love The Real Housewives of Atlanta on 50 inches with perfect sound, he's doing that for him. She doesn't need that to be happy.
What ends up happening is, men often don't notice the work their women put into the stuff that their women value. If you wanna do something for us… let's just make more love. We value that tremendously. Women often want men to value the same stuff that they value. And when we don't they get upset like, "I'm doing all this for us… and you're not doing anything." We're like… "we don't need all that… all we need is you."
Kids complicate things. I'll holla at you all in a year or so once we cross that bridge.
"So if a woman is busting her butt to keep an absolutely spotless house, she has to understand that even though they'll both enjoy the benefits of a spotless house she's doing that for her not for them. …if a man spends 25 hours setting up a flat screen with all the channels with an awesome surround sound system and all the necessary accoutrements – he has to understand that even though she's going to love The Real Housewives of Atlanta on 50 inches with perfect sound, he's doing that for him. She doesn't need that to be happy."
All of this. The point is a man may not help with the kids to the level the wife thinks he should. But he will take the cars to the dealership for the scheduled maintenance that she never thinks about, or changes the furnace filters in the fall without being told. The average husband doesn't get mad because he is always taking out the trash, and his wife could do it every once in a while.
Love that insight…
@Wild Cougar has my heart… Appreciate your contributions
Sorry, I don't buy this dunce cap and kazooing bit. If I'm not helping someone around the house it's either because I do not feel like doing it or I firmly believe it is your responsibility to do it unless under extreme circumstances. Also, just because you're doing something badly isn't a reason to pick up your toys and sulk in the corner. Do some of this verbal communication and if you can't come to an agreement tell her in no uncertain terms that's why you don't help. The idea of her thinking I'm dumb isn't the move. I just didn't feel like doing it.
There may be times, a lot times, were I come off as a lazy uncaring bastard, but I would never try to gaslight a woman a pretend she's crazy then dismiss here because I've convinced she's crazy. Not the move. I know what being dismissed because you're deemed abnormal in some facet feels like. If I'm not doing something you can hedge your bets on the fact that I don't feel like doing it rather than me not knowing or attempting to learn how to do it.
Mad Props for keeping it real Malik ……*smile*
Breaking News: Living with someone else is hard. There's a reason why folks joke all the time about bachelor pads and "man ways" – I would put it on men and women but really no two PEOPLE are going to prioritize everything the same way in a house. A lot of wives have a baby and immediately become an "expert". Dad is pushed to the side, he's not doing it right, etc. Example: when the twins were about 3 months old I had a girls night out. One of my girls asked me where the twins were. "At home." "Oh, your mom is watching them?" "Um no – they're at home with their father." "YOU LEFT THEM ALONE WITH YOUR HUSBAND?" Then the conversation died because we were both looking at each other like we were crazy. She won't leave her 5 yr old at home with her husband unless her 11 yr old daughter is there as well. Plum crazy.
Tef comes through with the sensibility as usual. One of the things you gotta learn early on if you're marriage is going to be successful is "different doesn't mean better."
I was dishes with a scrubbing brush tool because I have a low pain threshold when it comes to hot water. MrsMost uses a sponge because it's good for de-greasing ish.
As long as the dishes end up washed thoroughly it's all good.
My recent post The Millennial Manifesto: How 80′s Babies Can Save the World
LOL – most I'm with your wife on this one. Sponge > brush any day. My husband says the same thing about my dishwater boiling the skin off his hands.
I'm sure he said that after you admonished him for not getting all the grease of some dishes he washed. SMH… women.
I swear yall skin made of leather. This is why MrsMost and I never shower together. Jumped in the shower with her once… years ago and never did it again. Water was so hot I started sweating… in the shower… so now I need a shower after the shower… what the hell?
That shower comment…LMBO, LOL!!!
What's so funny is that my husband made the exact same leather reference, and stopped showering with me for the same reason. Said he felt like he was being cooked. SMH…men.
hahahahaaha! You sound like my hubs. I turn it down when he gets in though. Hahahaha! Wooo Most.
lmao. Too funny. I keep hearing that us women have a higher threshold when it comes to hot water.
Makes you wonder if the cold water knob even gets used….I doubt it. I swear they come out the shower with a red tint. All they need is some butter and they could pass for a lobster. lol
If she doesn't trust her husband with her kid then why did she have any with him? Cray.
That's exactly what I was thinking – but according to the hens over at CafeMom quite a few women feel this way. Not about a baby-daddy. About their HUSBANDS. Word? When I had the girls (who will be turning 1 in t-minus 6 days) NEITHER of us knew a thing. Imagine me telling him that he can't change a diaper, cuddle, burp or put clothes on 2 infants! But if hubs is gonna do something, he'll do it HIS way, and a lot of moms can't get with that. Some moms have their whole identity wrapped up in their expertise as mothers.
Wait a sec Krys….I've responded to at least two of your comments today. Hope you don't feel like I'm stalking you, lol!
That stalking comment…Y'all are too funny today, LMAO!!!
"Wait a sec Krys….I've responded to at least two of your comments today. Hope you don't feel like I'm stalking you, lol"
Woo Chile I'm glad you noticed it because I was starting to worry and was gonna have to change my name and change the locks. Wait a minute, it looks like I might be stalking you too. lmao!
Don't stop there, change your identity entirely! We've all seen your face! You safety may be compromised, LOL!
I honestly feel this will be my problem if I ever have kids (adopted, foster, whatever). I've been a second mom since I was in elementary. I have 3 teenagers going off to college next year *tear*. And though I'm not there everyday, I'm there as much as I can.
I walked in the house thanksgiving day and the first thing I did was grab a baby. I took my the two youngest so long their moms actually complained! lol.
I've also been a nanny ( in college), so raising kids is semi in my nature. Though I'm not an expert I know a good deal, and I've had enough experiences with children (newborns to teenagers) to be free and comfortable with what comes my way.
So if I ever get married, have kids, whatever I will struggle to balance this knowledge with the understanding that my husband will want to be involved/ make mistakes/ grow together.
My recent post Dreamgirl
Let me just say that your kids will be lucky. You've got years of experience under your belt and they will surely benefit from that. Another part of me feels for you that you had to grow up so fast by taking care of other kids when you were just a kid yourself. So *hugs* on that.
But you seem like a pretty level headed lady. I think you will attract and marry a dude that will complement you and your parenting style just right. He may look to you for guidance in this area while you lean on him in another area.
Teflon mom I cosign 100% on this…I see this a lot. I have no intentions of marrying a man I don't feel comfortable leaving Our Baby with. Especially since i have no fam here in MD to help me.
I mean granted some men aren't as meticulous caretakers as women are and some are completely clueless and don't have the "mother" instinct that we do….but I know plenty of fathers including my own who hold it down with their kids as well as and in some areas better than women. I know men (not gay) who can do their daughters hair just as good as a woman can.
I got about a third of the way through the article before I stopped wasting precious minutes of my life on reading it. I bet not one of those women b!tching and moaning asked her husband what wifely duties she's not fulfilling to his satisfaction.
Hugh calling em out!
Good point Hugh.
I think the wives have a right to be upset if hubby isn't carryin his weight. Communication is key though. Don't be passive aggressive, and dont let yourself get to the point of Irritation and being IRATE. Mitigate that before it becomes a larger issue!
My recent post 5 Machines to steer clear from at the gym! vol. 1
I agree, except that its really interesting that the nag, that woman who is constantly telling the man what she needs…you know the one who is supposed to be so common. Today, suddenly, she no longer exists. Now women don’t speak up. Hmmm.
I've noticed it's not what you say, but how you say it. We tend to take our partner for granted, but in terms of the nagging or asking for help I think there's a difference between saying:
"Baby, you look so damn sexy when you take out the garbage"
"Look N-word, get yo black behind up off the couch and throw away this trash. I'm tired of telling you the same thing".
But since neither are discussed in this post and the original argument, I could be making false assumptions based on experience.
My recent post Dreamgirl
Might be comfortable playing dumb and letting her go crazy doing everthing, then blaming her for it. Works real well. Not gonna be so comfortable when you are divorced and handing over your property and paycheck. A lot of bitter divorced men out there with 20/20 hindsight. Just a thought.
So if a divorce is the best option in this situation why does it have to turn into taking half of what he.owns? Shouldn't the real punishment be that he is.losing the woman he claims to love. If you end a relationship because of not being appreciated then his punishment is realizing that he lost something special. Why does it have to be about taking half of what he owns?
Yeah, she’s more valuable than his stuff. But a selfish man would probably be thinking about his stuff. Thats why I put it that way.
Except that to a selfish man, even his wife is his property in a matter of words. He doesn't have control over her, but she is his & he is hers! So after losing her, she will be missed sorely….. especially since that is a knock against our fragile egos that we were not good enough.
Unless there were issues where it was only a matter of time before either party initiated the divorce, then most men actually want their ex-wife back afterwards because they realize they lost a good thing….. 80/20 rule greatly applies here, even without an existing 20.
I haven't read all of the comments but this comment from Wis in response to Nia is something that stood out to me:
"I think the real culprit here is a number of these women married the first man that asked and not necessarily the man they were most compatible with."
I think this is a good reason why so many marriages fail, actually.
Otherwise I agreed with Nia's detailed response. folks must work together, as a team, but I think the conversation needs to be had before marriage and before children. Of course its easy to say "we're gonna do it like this, and be a team" and then shit changes when the kids are there. Also, one thing I think about constantly as I'm working towards that point is that person is who they are. Is their CURRENT behavior something I can live with? because more than likely he's not going to change, and I'm not about that nagging life, for the sake of harmony in my home I don't want to be that kind of wife.
My recent post I know that we don’t know each other well…
I'll just co-sign this and let it be for the day, lol…
That quote is the truth.
I'll put my co-sign here. Some people don't want to hear this truth though.
I am recently married. It's been 9 months and there are a lot of adjustments that have to be made for coexistence to be pleasant for both parties. The biggest thing I have learned is "I don't know what I don't know." The age old adage of training your husband is very true. My wife runs the house and I have to fall in line with house rules. This is not about losing my balls or being run over, it’s more of growing compatible, communicating minor annoyances which if go unchecked become major issues. I will admit it takes a while for some things to sink in and usually at that point she is yelling about closing the pantry door. In my mind… "It’s the freaking pantry door… are you serious" well yes she is serious. At the end of the day, is this something that is going to be the end of us, can I be considerate and close the pantry door; of course.
I am being trained and it’s a process of learning about myself and learning we are complete opposites that are in love. The foundation I brought into the marriage is one of growing up in a single mom home. This is very problematic for a marriage because mom's tend to do everything for their sons without batting an eye. There are too many angles to try and figure out why this is, but the end result is that it makes it harder for a wife to train a new husband. I am only expressing my point of view from my childhood experiences… it takes two to tango and I am sure her childhood foundation has a great impact on the marriage.. However growing up in my own world, having moms do everything, being single minded and focused are complete contrasts of being married. At times I feel as if I am being reprogrammed… And well… That’s the truth.
Every day brings a new challenge, every day I discover or rediscover something new about myself. We are too dynamic to be single and live our lives as singletons (my opinion). Communication is the most important foundation in a relationship. I hate friends who can’t communicate; the only difference is they can get cut off. I have come to realize not everyone can and is willing to communicate. I have only gotten better at it through counseling sessions with my wife. Again, she has her own setbacks but we both have to iron those out, be 1000% HONEST, and express ourselves through communication.
My issue with the black community: I have never heard anything good about being married.. .i was freaking terrified but slowly adjusted. I took a chance and I am a much better person than I could have ever been had I stayed single and unwilling to commit. Marriage is a constant act of selflessness and being in-tune with the other person. I am no different than the men spoken about in the article, I am oblivious to lots of things, they are things I simply don't think about. But like someone stated earlier, we have to be brought up to speed with expectations etc… Before the gasket is blown and the home is miserable.
Marriage can only be experienced, its the part of life that is too dynamic to put into one book, or chapter. Every marriage is unique to the individuals, but all marriages seem to have the same types of issues/concerns.
At the end of the day, communication and patience is key and commitment to love and "US" is what makes the hard times bearable.
Congrats and best of luck fam. It's a beautiful thing and you seem like you have your head in the right direction (pause).
Good luck with the marriage man. One thing is make sure your voice is heard as wel. Reading your comment makes it sounds like it’s her way or no way. I understand you want her to be happy but it has to go both ways. Have the things you care about because she certainly does. If they don’t conflict great, when they do work it out and compromise.
@ Animate, thanks for the advice. We are both learning to compromise. She is being reprogrammed as well because she does not want to experience what she witnessed growing up. In other words she is adamantly trying to make me not be the father she had. I have to be me, and you have to except me for me and we go form there. Having preexisting expectations conditions makes it more of an issue than it really is. Two people dragging around baggage consciously or unconsciously makes things more complicated than they have to be.
Great comment, sir. Congratulations and good luck. You seem to be on the right path and mad respect for the counseling mention, which I think a lot of people – especially black people – overlook in terms of making a successful marriage work from the beginning instead of waiting until the end to try and turn things around.
Congratulations Infamous and best of luck to you and yours
Well, as the resident married writer here on these SBM streets, I can say, with full confidence, that I cannot relate to this article at all, nor can my wife.
Fights and anger are pretty rare in our household and when they do occur they're usually resolved with in 24 hours or so. Every couple months or so we'll have a "so… how you feeling about this" kinda conversation that is expansive and reflective of the time since our last similar conversation. We'll talk about goals, what we've done, where we've fallen short, where we've expected more from our partner. Having these sorts of conversations, particularly when we're not upset or angry with each other has proven hugely beneficial. It allows us to have level headed, mature conversation around our wants and needs without the undercurrent of a particular dispute weighing down the conversation.
In terms of household chores, there was a time where we both felt like one wasn't keeping up their end of the bargain, but 5 years in, we've kinda settled into a good space as far as that's concerned. Basic rules are, if I cook, she does the dishes, if she cooks, I do the dishes. You're responsible for your own crap. Meaning, we don't pick up each others clothes or other stuff laying around in common areas. I'm home more than she is, so on a day to day basis, I'd say I probably do more to keep the house generally neat. That means like, putting away the papers that somehow accumulate when you're married, putting away dishes that have been washed and are now dry … that sorta basic upkeep. We have two bathrooms, one I use, one she uses… I clean mine, she cleans hers. We have two closets, one I use, one she uses. I rarely go in hers, she rarely goes in mine. When it's time to seriously clean. Like dust and vacuum, she's better than me at that so she does most of that sort of stuff. She somehow knows, instinctively, to clean things I would never even dream needed cleaning – like underneath the fridge and places like that. I think that part is balanced by my taking out all the trash (for both our apartment and our tenants apartments) and keeping up with the day to day maintenance around the house. If something breaks, or there's some sort of electronic problem, or the cable ain't working – that's all on me.
I say all that to say, I think we're in a good space. We don't fight or allow our selves to get "irate" over petty stuff like household chores because in the end, when you really think about it – for us it kinda balances out.
One thing I've learned is that you never know what's going on inside the minds of a married couple. From reading this article I wouldn't presume to know who's right or who's wrong in those situations. All you can do is work hard to build a comfortable situation for yourself and ignore what everyone else is doing. That's it. That's marriage.
Two questions I don't believe I've asked or you've answered before, Most. Feel free to respond or ignore.
1) Did you and your wife engage in couple's counseling before marriage? I know this is getting more and more popular and is even mandated in Texas (although you can pay to opt out). If no, what are your thoughts on couples counseling?
2) Did you and your wife live together before marriage? If yes, did that help clarify some roles of expectation?
Yeah we did do formal and informal couples counseling before we got married. It was extremely helpful – even for a know-it-all/do-everything-right type of guy like me. The counseling helped us solidify what was already a solid foundation by teaching us little tips and tricks about effective communication – particularly when emotions are involved. I feel like we'd still be where we are now (happy 5 years later) if not for it, but it definitely made the road here a lot less bumpy. The informal counseling continues as well. Having good married friends in your same peer group, that you get along well with we've found to be invaluable. Sometimes you just need to know you're not alone for feeling the way you feel.
We did not live together before marriage and I don't recommend it. I know tons of couples for which it's worked and tons more where it hasn't. Generally speaking, if a friend tells me he and his lady are considering cohabitation, I ask "do yall plan on getting married?" If the answer is yes, I advise against it.
Know it all do everything right…..ok. I think I get you a lot better than I did. You’re like my older sister that way. Ima just nod and smile from now on, lol.
Somehow, I knew you'd pick that line out of everything I said. I meant that facetiously… obviously.
Yes,I knew that, love. You don’t get my humor.
Now, now you kids don't make me pull this car over…
My recent post Niggas in Paris to Infinity and Beyond
Mad Props Most.
You sound like the "Perfect Husband" with a "Perfect Marriage"…at least perfect compared to some folks who are miserable….Obviously your doing stuff right so when you have time write a "Marriage for Dummies" Manual/Book for all the "miseducated-folks" who seriously need it and you and your wife become marriage counselors……you got my support and free advertising…*smile*
@Most: YFrom your reading your commnets, you and your wife have an division of labor that works for the both of you. That is great! I've been married for 12 years and my hubby and I have the same thing. We share the household responsibilites which definitely makes for a happy marriage.
I think the complaint for many wives, particularly those who work full-time, is that their husbands expect them to do all of the household chores after they get home from work. That's how it was with my parents when I was growing. It made ZERO sense to me that my Mom, who worked full-time, would have to cook and clean when she got home from work, as well as tend to me and my siblings Meanwhile, my Dad would come home from work and sit in his chair and chill. Definitely not cool.
Can someone give me an example of this o' so subtle communication women give that is undetectable to men? I'm honestly confused considering I've never met a woman at any station in my life who didn't constantly attempt to express her feelings about something.
Have you ever been in a serious, long term relationship? I ask because much of this this sort of passive communication happens when deep feelings compound immediate needs.
Sheeeeit, I can give you a few:
1) You clean up the living room. She comes and re-cleans it because you missed wiping down the floor trim, threw the blanket over the back of the couch without folding it and didn't put the knick-knacks where they're supposed to be. She has just communicated to you the "correct" way to clean, because she figures it's better than making you feel like a kid by standing over you. 2) You were supposed to take her car to the shop 3 days ago. She asked about it yesterday, but today said nothing. You think nothing of it, until you slide your hand up her back in bed and she initially shrugs away from you. 3) Your honey is short with you for no apparent reason. You're wondering why she's being snippy, but she asked you 3 weeks ago to fix a table, you didn't, and this morning it fell on her toe. She doesn't want to cuss you all the way out, but that little bit of pissed off can't help but seep out here and there.
O okay thank you for the context. Makes sense now.
Hi Malik, my name is Brit and I do not constantly attempt to express my feelings. Now you "met" one. lol In fact, I am working on being more expressive and communicative because my non-chalant go with the flow ways sometimes have me losing.
Oh, young padawan, I can assure you – for a fact – that at some point in your life some woman you interacted with was upset with you and you didnt know it. Trust me on this one. The fact that you are unaware of this fact proves the fact itself.
Passive aggressiveness, like most things, is fine in moderation. It's the women who are only passive aggressive because they cannot or choose not to effectively communicate there wants and desires to the men in their lives (and likely anyone in their life) that I – and then other men I'm sure – were addressing.
My recent post A One Woman Man
Some woman I was with in a relationship? Nope. I like crazy women. I actively seek them out. I move hundreds of miles to go live with them. There have been times when they haven't explicitly said anything, but I was never not knew she was made at me because I know I do f*cked up sh!t a lot of time. I just don't know which thing I did she may be mad at me about.
I don’t know shit about passive agression. I like my aggression straight, no chaser. [Sarcasm font]
I appreciate all of this Naija. And I do know that not all women have it like me. I will not sit here and paint a picture that everything is perfect around here. He is not perfect and makes his mistakes but I choose not to take them personally or see it as an attack or that he's taking advantage. If I've been up on my feet all day tending to things and see that he's just sitting around not "helping," I'll just take that as an invitation to sit my behind down too. I have witnessed relationships that were not cool at all. My mom and her latest ex husband for example. He would be sitting on the couch right next to the door and somebody would knock and he'd call her from the back room to answer it. That would not be me. When noon hits, he yelled out lunch and she would jump up and go make it. That would not be me. We all have our limits and clearly those women have put up with it enough to let those men think that behaving like that, while not appreciated, is somehow expected. I think it could relate back to the misandry thing Dr. J wrote about actually but that's a whole other tangent.
I wasn’t able to grab a point of this conversation where I could jump in so I waited. Here’s what i’ll say about this; if you have problems with what’s going on in your house, your issue is not with what is in your house, but how it got in your house. The issue is selection. No one is perfect, I can’t relate to this article because if my wife was saying that, i’d think she was being nonsensical and senile. That’s a reflection on what i’m bringing to the table, not dismissing her thoughts.
I think this back and forth has been hilarious, because I have lived with a woman represented in that article, and I call her Mom! She used to swear I was just not doing things because I was lazy and didn't care. She used to act like I would purposefully walk around the house and overlook all the wrongs in every room because I just KNEW she would do it and thus I took her for granted..
Now there was no lack of communication about her needs, cause she was my mom and didn't care about how much she nagged me.. but when I was home for a year between college and grad school, and I was grown enough to truly communicate my side, I said to her.. "Mom, I am not you. You expect that everyone views the world in the same lens that you do. But I don't see the world the way you do.. all this little stuff that just GLARES out at you doesn't even register on my radar. When you come in and tell me all the things I should have done, it just makes me angry and makes me not wanna even do it because as soon as I finish, you will see something ELSE wrong.. and so if you're gonna be mad regardless.. at least you can be mad and I can be chilling… While its clear to YOU that the refrigerator needed cleaning out, or that OF COURSE I noticed that I left my toothbrush and head scarf on the bathroom counter when I finished my shower… It doesn't even come to my mind…"
So asked her to write me a list of what she want me to do, put it on the bathroom mirror, give me a time when she would like it to be accomplished. and before that time.. don't ask me a thing about it… Thank you…
And when she started doing that.. everything was clear. I rarely missed a deadline cause I didn't want to hear her mouth.. She never was mad at me because when she got the things she wanted done. If I did miss a deadline.. she would just bring me the list and I would get to it immediately because I was in the wrong… and there was no more insane grey area between her expectations and mine. That system worked for us… Other systems have worked with other people I've lived with.
This truly isnt a male/female issue as much as it's a person/person issue. As a lesbian.. I've had the SAME issues with my girlfriends.. and I've been on all both sides of the fence.. if you can't communicate about it then it sucks.. if you live with someone whose idea of a clean home or housework is worlds away from yours.. then that sucks, and if your standard is worlds higher than theirs, then you'll probably end up doing most of that work in the gap… Either you can accept that as the give and take of a relationship or you can't.
One of my exes HATED that my car wasn't as clean as hers… so she cleaned it faithfully…. I hated the way my ex did laundry.. so I did all of it… shrug
The idea that men are just these lazy dudes who want to make you mad by not doing stuff or are so self involvd that they don't care or cause of their mamas or whatever is shortsighted. And yeah.. the value of some good sex, regardless of the dishes or the laundry cannot be understated…
Sometimes its not all about the gender.. sometimes you might just be picking the wrong person to live with because forever is a mighty long time.
That article is all over the place. Iknow that my mom used to be frustrated with my dad when we were younger because she handled everything with us for school. My dad only had interest when it came time for college. My fiance gets frustrated with me when I do not want to spend time with his mom alone and when I make plans on Sundays. It is all based in communication though.
I can't imagine any woman/man, no matter how easy-going, who wouldn't get frustrated with a spouse who comes home and immediately heads for the computer, where they will proceed to spend the rest of the evening until it's time to go to bed. At the same time, the other half has to make sure the house is at least relatively clean, the kids are fed and loved, that the bills are paid, etc. etc.
If you think this is an exaggeration, you should go spend a week at my sister's place. Her husband does absolutely NOTHING. The only chore they have mutually agreed is his, is doing the dishes (they have a dishwasher). Even for this, my sister will help by piling up the dishes right on top of the dishwasher so it's as easy as possible for him to put them in. She isn't bothered by him not doing it (she's not the most… clean-crazy person herself, to put it mildly!), until the dishes start to smell. That's when she'll mention it to him ("hey listen, the dishes are starting to smell") and he will blow up, accusing her of nagging.
Not to mention the fact that his 2-year-old son is desperate for his attention, running to daddy every chance he gets to tell him to come see something. And when daddy comes, the kid is so happy, because the husband is actually really good with him. In that sense, a good dad. But if he never voluntarily does anything with the child, it's going to hurt him and his son in the long run. My sister has long since given up and just concentrates on the child. She used to give her husband "gift"cards for free massages etc, trying to "keep the flame alive", but he couldn't even be bothered to respond to those. So I don't think "putting out" would fix it either.
But my sister was with this douche for 3 years before they had a child together and got married. She even lived with him for 2 years and bought an apartment, so she had plenty of time to see what kind of person he is (one of the good sides of co-habitation, by the way). He is charming, yes, but it didn't take me more than one time of seeing him get frustrated by losing a game to realize he was a big baby. At 32. So even though I definitely am not saying what he's doing is ok, I'm saying that her only choice at this point is what she is doing: accepting it and sticking it out for the child, as long as she can. He'll probably cheat at some point, he's just that kind of a man. At least then she'll have a legitimate reason to get out.
My friend used to laugh indulgently and tell us how her boyfriend couldn't do anything for himself because his mum did everything for him. She would say, ever so lovingly, how "spoiled" he was and how she had to do everything for him, including his laundry. Fast-forward to marriage and two kids later and dude is EXACTLY the way he is. Hasn't changed one bit. This time, when she calls him spoiled or complains about the fact that he never does any work around the house, it's with a lot of venom and bitterness. If someone told me she was one of the wives interviewed for the article, I would totally believe it. In her case, the resentment is justified. Dude is lazy as all fucks. Even if she drew a picture of her expectations to him, he still wouldn't help with anything. The only thing is, she knew exactly how he was when she married him. And even though I empathize with her, you can't get mad about the choices you make….
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Simple. Men are typically the boss of their wives and women do love to disappoint men all the time and make them angry. Women are very disappointing to men and love angry men who are always disappointed in them.