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Single Black Mail: Where Do Men Meet Quality Women?

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The award winning Single Black Mail series returns. This week’s email:

Your article about married men are lame on SBM hit home for me, in a good way. I am 31, no kids and never been married. I spent some time behind bars in my life so when I got out here dating I was behind, to put it lightly. I don’t drink so the bar scene never set in, I would do better at happy hour, but as you know, no loose girls do the 5pm to 9pm after work scene so I found myself in relationships. From 25 to 29 I was in relationship after relationship. Few periods in between I had meaningless flings when I was single but it left me with more -‘s than +’s, so I stopped that.  Brotha now I’m lost. I feel like I am lame, because I see the bar scene as lame, even though I know that’s where the majority of black women go “thug huntin” smh, I’ve tried interracial dating n it’s not fulfilling at all, you can just tell you’re more of a novelty act to them then something real. I feel am so lame I don’t know what lame is. In my mind saying f#$k the bar and handling my business over blowing money is the right thing to do, not caring about facebook n twitter n all that s%^t is what’s good. Now though, I am ready to charge it & play facebook because my women love dumb shit like bar hoppin well into there 30’s and living through facebook. It’s like ‘if you can’t beat them join them’ type of thing. Brotha 2 brotha, what is your definition of lame? Why does it seem like doing right by women is lame but treating them like rappers portray them is cool and having “swag”? How can you be “cool” and have “swag” and not fit into the stereotypical ni**a mold? Is it possible? At the end of the day I will have to come to my own conclusions, but reading your articles on SBM I think your words would help me in the process.



WisdomIsMisery:

First, thank you for writing. SBM is always happy to receive mail from readers and I’m humbled you reached out to me personally. I hope it goes without saying, but just in case it does not, I am not a relationship expert or have I ever made any claims to be one. I have opinions and thoughts based on my experience, the experience of others, and my readings on and observations in dating.  With that said, here are my thoughts and opinions on your letter.

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To be brief, the thing about being lame is “who cares.” Lame people exist and procreate everyday of the week, b. There’s some lame ass dude sleeping with some fine ass woman as we speak, while some “fly” dude will sleep in a cold bed tonight, alone. If a woman likes you, it doesn’t really matter how lame you are or are not, because clearly she doesn’t care so neither should you. The key is finding that woman who likes you for you. If you’re going to change, that’s fine, but do it for you, not for some woman you haven’t even met yet.

As far as meeting women, I think you should join a dating site and more than one. I’d say at least three. Some of the top free ones include: OkCupid.com and POF.com. However, these sites are fairly integrated, so since you said you prefer not to date interracially, I would recommend a site targeted to a black audience, like BlackPeopleMeet.com or something along those lines (I’ve heard mixed reviews about this site but you can search Google to get more ideas). There are also well-known paid sites like eHarmony and Match. I personally see nothing wrong with dating sites and here’s why.

In every other area of life, except dating, when people want something, they proactively pursue it. You want food? You go to the store. You want a new job? You job hunt and network. You want a relationship? You sit on your ass and wait for “The One” to magically show up on your doorstep? WTF? That’s stupid. Real life isn’t an ironic romantic comedy.

In my opinion, if you want to be in a relationship, you go to places where the odds are other people want to be in a relationship, like a dating site. There are also other dating services but they cost money. My general opinion on life, is you should never pay for something you are perfectly capable of doing yourself.

You can go to all the happy hours (which I wouldn’t recommend), work functions, and parties you want and not have the same likelihood of meeting LIKEMINDED people as you will on website geared towards dating, and I don’t mean Facebook or Twitter. To me, Facebook is only a good resource if you want to date your friends or you want everyone in your business. I’m not on Facebook and I have no plans to join. A dating site will give you the opportunity to get to know someone before you actually meet. Granted, they may lie but if someone is a liar they’re going to lie on or off a dating site, so to me, that’s not a good excuse. Additionally, you can screen out or pursue women based on whatever criteria you find important upfront: attractiveness, religion, children, education, etc. Lastly, I think dating sites are better designed for men to succeed than women for three reasons: 1) Men, being men, will copy and paste the same message to a 1,000,000 women. 2) Men typically join dating sites to find more women; whereas, women are (usually) legitimately on the site to find a relationship. 3) Women get flooded with a gazillion messages from truly lame ass men. Therefore, if you are remotely un-lame, you’re already ahead of 9 out of 10 of the other men she got a message from.

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I also recruited the married man on staff for his perspective, since he has already proven he can find and sustain a serious relationship. Mr. Spradley, let the people know how you feel.

Mr. Spradley:

This email spoke to me. I had to jump on because I felt the sincerity and thought I might be able to offer a little advice. The first thing I want to make clear is that you are not lame. Wait, scratch that. You might be lame, it’s possible, but not because of the things you’ve described above. Being about your business does not make you lame. Having your priorities straight does not make you lame, and treating women with the respect you believe they deserve does not make you lame. Do not change any of these core characteristics about yourself in the hopes of attracting more women. If I’ve learned anything in life it’s that you can never reach your full potential being someone you’re not. Be you homey. Be you and don’t apologize for it or wish you were someone else.

Now, more specific to the question at the heart of this post, “where do men meet quality women?” The truth is: everywhere. Too often, as men, we fall victim to the stereotypical dating rituals of meeting women in these places that don’t play to our advantages. Happy hours, clubs, these are all “away” games for us. They are “away” games for us because we don’t have the opportunity to play to our strengths. Clearly, for you, not being a drinker and being someone who’s seen just how far off track life can sometimes take us, the whole after-work, ‘spendin-discretionary-money-we-don’t-have’ scene ain’t for you. As a man intimately aware of how valuable and precious time is, spending time on social networking sites where the purpose is to waste time is not a win for you. Those are away games. Avoid those. WIS’ advice was spot on, trying dating sites is a great idea because they provide a medium through which intentions should be clear and both parties have the opportunity to get straight to the point.

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Another idea is to just keep your eyes open as you go about your daily business. You seem gentlemanly and good-natured. Use this to your advantage. If there’s a nice young lady who you see every single morning when you go to get your coffee, smile and see if she reciprocates. If she smiles one morning, the next morning move on up to actually saying “good morning.” If she responds positively to that a few times, move on to asking her if she works in the area. If that’s positive ask her out to lunch one day. See where that goes. All she can say is “no.” And if she does, you’re no worse off than when you started.

Your biggest strength, your advantage over all the other men vying for the attention of the women you come into contact with is that you don’t have ulterior motives. The fact that you’re not just trying to get into their pants is golden. All you have to do is develop the ability to express your gentlemanly nature within the first few seconds of interaction, without seeming like a pushover.

Your Specific Questions:

1) What is your definition of lame?

A lame dude is a dude who’s perpetually unable to inspire and maintain the attention of women.

2) Why does it seem like doing right by women is lame but treating them like rappers portray them is cool and having “swag”?

It just seems that way. It’s not really the case. Good women don’t want their men to treat them the way rappers pretend to treat them.

3) How can you be “cool” and have “swag” and not fit into the stereotypical ni**a mold. Is it possible??

True “swag” is the confidence and conviction to just be yourself.

Fellas, what other advice would you offer this young man? Ladies, here’s your opportunity to provide advice to a man who is admittedly looking for a committed relationship. In your opinion, where are good places to meet likeminded women? What are your thoughts on the three specific questions asked by our reader and covered in bold above by MrSpradley?

~WisdomIsMisery & @MrSpradley

Comment(86)

  1. I agree with Spradley..look every where..but with discretion

    I personally don’t like it when men are hitting on me while I am walking down the street. I’m trying to get somewhere, I don’t have time to chat. But if I’m chillin in a coffee shop or bookstore or meandering diwn the aisle of Target, and you have seen me at the place more than once.. Go for it. (but if I’m reading a book..and it’s really good.. Wait until I look up or taking a break. Do NOT interrupt while I’m reading unless there is a fire or something..magazines eh. Books NO!)

    I dont go to clubs to meet guys. I go to dance or drink. I don’t leave the club with a guy. In my mind guys in a club only want one thing. That’s just me..I’m also the girl who hasn’t been to a club in over a year so maybe I shouldn’t even talk.

    As far as being lame..worrying about being lame is lame. Just Be yourself. 🙂

    1. Actually, worrying about being lame is warranted in instances where someone truly is so. Think perpetual doormat with absolutely 0 backbone.

    2. Honestly, your post makes me laugh and sigh. I mean… you just dropped a lot of random rules… "Talk to me when I'm in the bookstore but not if I'm reading a book."

      O_O

      Huh?

      How is _he_ supposed to know that what you're reading is "good?" lol

      And "don't hit on me while I'm walking down the street." I just… huh? Why not just exchange email or phone number and then hit him back saying you were "in a hurry earlier, but what's up now?"

      I'm trying to understand (and maybe boys are too…)
      My recent post Sex, Yoga, and BDSM

    3. I don't do dudes off the street either. We need to have more in common than a sidewalk. Plus I feel a certain way about dudes being physically attracted to me. I know it sounds silly but I don't know where that comes from.
      When I was in college and in a smaller city, I was a little more open to talking to men on the street. But being in NYC I just assume no one has good intentions and they go quick from "showing interest" to harassing you…so yeah.

      A bookstore would be different. If a dude reads, he's worth a chance, he can interrupt me reading my really good book.
      My recent post You don’t have to be rich to do what you love

    4. Hahaha! I think I share the same sentiment as chunk here. I mean I go out to go dancing with my friends… I never have any intention of speaking to any guy I meet at a club outside of a club but… I mean it could it happen.

      I think its all about the approach. The bottom line is: anyone, anywhere may just say the right thing, look at you the right way and exchange the right energy with you. You have to be open to both giving and receiving it. Two people sharing a certain space or engaging in a certain activity are not guaranteed, in my opinion, to have more in common than two random people who happen to be walking down the same street. Because most external properties are not true deal breakers anyway.. at least not to me. Some are – certain religions, habits (i.e. smoking), etc. can be seen … but u know what I mean.

      I think the best advice I ever received… and I am not sure if this is only true for women – maybe men are supposed to be more aggressive – … was to live a full life. As a single person, going through life.. be less concerned about finding someone and more concerned about finding yourself. Like… if you spend time trying to find things your interested in, practicing new hobbies, and just living a complete, interesting life that someone else could join (and hopefully add to) you'll be in a better position than you would be living some half a$$ed life constantly searching for someone to fill in the empty space and time. Sometimes nothing is more loud and distracting than silence.

      It's always when I am NOT looking and I am perfectly content with where I am that someone comes along and knocks me off-center. Happiness (again, maybe just for women..?) seems to be the most attracting trait I ever give off. Sexiness gets me stared at. Stared down, really. Not approached. But when I am just happy, comfortable and enjoying whatever it is I am doing, even if it is buying lip balm at CVS in my sweatpants, I almost always get some kind of something…. even if it is just a smile and not a disgusting stare. I think it works for men when, like spradley said, you don't have ulterior motives. I would imagine you are emitting that same kind of attractive vibe.

  2. I agree that online dating sites can help, but as a person who has used this method I would offer the advise of "Keep an open mind". Most dating sites are filled with random horny guys just looking for sex. This guy sounds like he may be looking for something real. However, when it comes these sites people get very nit-picky and carry around a laundry list of "must haves" Granted, having a few non-negotiables are cool. But if the problem is that you keep running into Mrs. Wrong, maybe you need to try something different than what you're use to. Continued….
    My recent post Rants From A Gemini

  3. On online dating sites, I notice so many men say something to the effect of:

    1. Must love wearing heels
    2. have a nice hour-glass
    3. No women over size 14
    4.No women with children etc…
    What if ol girl just had ankle surgery— she can't be the love of your life because she can't wear heels? What if she's a size 18, but she's in the gym and working on her weight? Will her pants size dictate her personality? Things like that, I think men have to check themselves on, especially if they claim they want a "good" woman.

    Out side of online dating, I'd say tapas lounges, networking events, arts/music festivals, fashion shows (yes they often have men's fashion too) etc. Truth be told, we're often in places where the men are, trying to find YOU! Just be yourself and don't be afraid to approach.
    My recent post Hi. My Name is Tokyo Brown….and I Facebook Stalk!

  4. – "It just seems that way. It’s not really the case. Good women don’t wan their men to treat them the way rappers pretend to treat them."
    – "True “swag” is the confidence and conviction to just be yourself."

    Run&TellThat! /Dodson

    A few questions right back @ the guidance seeker. Do you truly have an idea of what it is that you're looking for in a partner? Have you taken the time to assess the quality of relationships that you were engaged in while hopping from one to the next? Do you know why they ended? What do you define as "quality"? Do you offer an equal amount of it as you require?

    I am ready to charge it & play facebook because my women love dumb shit like bar hoppin well into there 30′s and living through Facebook.

    – Do you need to change, or do you need to change who you get with? If you don't define yourself as a "thug," (I'm assuming here), why would you feel like you're losing out if the bar is supposedly where women go "thug-hunting?" If the women you hang with perceive you doing right by them as being lame, then you need to look elsewhere.

    I don't know you well enough to offer suggestions on where to meet like-minded women. What I do know is that you need to reflect on your current habits & thoughts, past decisions, and future goals as they pertain to relationships. Also, think about the type of man that your ideal woman would want to be with. If you do not qualify, then you need to either reassess your list of desirables or work towards becoming that person…as long as it's beneficial for you, even in "her" absence.

    1. "Also, think about the type of man that your ideal woman would want to be with. If you do not qualify, then you need to either reassess your list of desirables or work towards becoming that person…as long as it's beneficial for you, even in "her" absence."

      NAIJA HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD.^^^^^^^^^^^^

      My first question after reading this was, "are you a solid 7 trying to find a 12?" I talk to my friends about this all the time. I ask my female friends with their "what Chili wants" lists if they truly believe that if they find the guy with all those characteristics, are they the type of woman that the kind of man she describes would want? I'm not saying change yourself or be something you are not (the TRUE definition of lame!) I'm just saying there's nothing wrong with tweaking your book cover a bit so that women see the true value of the novel underneath. 🙂

    2. I feel like for a woman to say what you just said… I just hope you tell all your female friends that.

      "Also, think about the type of man that your ideal woman would want to be with. If you do not qualify, then you need to either reassess your list of desirables or work towards becoming that person…as long as it's beneficial for you, even in "her" absence."

      This right here… is the gospel. I will say it usually applies more to women than men. Men get motivated by a certain type of woman to change. I have noticed a lot of women will sit on, "He should be happy to find someone like me" even when the man is turned off. I just hope that you share this with your female friends.

  5. *takes notes*

    *uses a worn down pencil*

    good advice fellas. might not buy all of it, but i'm sure it would work for the overwhelmin' majority of fellas.

  6. Don't know if I count as Im married, but hell I was once a single woman with some of your same concerns to an extent. I cannot speak to dating sites as I never tried them, but I'll will give you the same advice I give all my girlfriends which is exposure increases odds. It does not have to be a bar. Go out and do the things that you like to do…The type of woman you like should be there. Whether it is poetry, church, exercising, etc. Try speed dating and black networking events. Personally, Im not against Facebook…you may come across some weirdos but how many people have connected with friends of friends…used correctly, it can be a great networking tool. Lastly, let friends and fam know you are looking. Most couples are always interested in hooking up their single friends.

    Hope this helps and good luck!

    PS you dnt sound like a lame to me…just an adult!

  7. dont go on dating sites,,,,we are NOT there!!!
    Here we are:
    1. enroll in higher education (one class at a time) we are trying to better our selves you should too
    2. on the bus or mass transit ( we commute to work, gas is high-let me on first you will get a smile and a good look at my assets)
    3. getting a cup of hot coffee or tea (dunkin donuts, starbucks) say hey and let me start your day off by taking care of that cup of coffee for you – again you will get a big smile and an opening to start a convo)
    4. at Target or Walmart (trust me we love to shop and we love bargains) ask me where the men's underwear are and i will know you keep yourself clean and you have a sense of humor
    5. a hobby…we like to golf, ride our motorcycles, jog in the park or in the neighborhood,,,
    6. Convention Shows: Car shows, Home Improvement shows, Flower shows, Tattoo shows, Tech shows – whatever your into she is there too.

    I will not say church – I am there to get my praise on and filled to battle the "Man" for the upcoming week, my eyes are not looking around to see who is new & single..but to each his own.

    Good Luck!

    1. Hmmmm. Actually some of us are on dating sites… and if there were more "good" men on them, we'd be there more often. And school is… well, at this age many of use already got them papers, lol. But I agree with the others. Transportation is a regional thing- round here, most successful women are driving because we don't have trains and such.
      My recent post Sex, Yoga, and BDSM

    2. I have to kindly disagree with not going on dating sites.

      There are MANY good women on dating sites. The issue is: If you have piss-poor dating practices out in the world and use the same dating practices on-line – you will fail.

      People have screen and filter more-so online than they do in person. And you have to be patient. From experience, I've learned folks want instant gratification. And hey, that's all good if that's all you're looking for. But if you want something with a foundation, you have to go through the 'get to know you' process or it will be just as disastrous.

      I met some real good dudes online; not all ended in relationships but we're still in each others lives.

      Online dating done right can be rewarding if both parties are truly on the same page.

    3. Female Greeks make up a huge chunk of Match (can't comment on the free sites), so I can say from experience that black women are more open to online dating than they are to interracial dating. I think it just depends on the stage they're in in life and how serious they are. But I mean, obviously if you're paying for a service, you're gonna take the process seriously and weed out alot of the BS
      My recent post Is America Ready for A Black Bachelor?

      1. I honestly feel like I would need to be all the way into the idea of interracial dating prior to signing up for Match & co. I've considered it a few times, but it wasn't pressing, and the profiles I saw on the different sites were 99.9876557% ivory. I'm semi-open right now, but still holding on strongly to my preferences.

  8. 3) How can you be “cool” and have “swag” and not fit into the stereotypical ni**a mold. Is it possible??

    True “swag” is the confidence and conviction to just be yourself.

    This statement speaks volumes. Confidence is sexy and believe me, quality woman notice it.
    Good advice to this gentleman I wish him good luck.

  9. First off, I'm so glad this series is back!

    Next I agree with this statement wholeheartedly:
    In every other area of life, except dating, when people want something, they proactively pursue it. You want food? You go to the store. You want a new job? You job hunt and network. You want a relationship? You sit on your ass and wait for “The One” to magically show up on your doorstep? WTF? That’s stupid.

    I've been saying that for years.

    With that being said, I agree with the advice about online dating and letting people know that you are looking.

    We ARE online
    At the gym…..In a yoga or Zumba class
    Having brunch with our girlfriends on Sunday

    It would help if I knew the city where the writer is.

  10. My advice is to take some time to invest in things that interest you. You are most likely to find a quality woman while engaging in things that enrich your life and make you happy. Your positivity at that time will act as a gravitational pull.
    Also, it doesn't hurt to babysit your friend's toddlers & take them to the park.

    But real talk, I was going over this same "dilemma" with some friends. I meet plenty of men of quality, they just are not in a relationship mood. Great guys, great friends, just not in settling mode. Which is a little frustrating when you are a solid 7 that puts in the work of a 3. I love to cook, I hate to shop, I love sports & I'm smarter than the average bear….yet…..

    Just saying it's not like it's an easy road for everyone, and your time will come. Just enjoy the journey.

    1. Good comment.

      I don't want this to come off as a male-bashing response so I hope it doesn't. …

      But I have the opposite "dilemma" as you…I meet the Well Hidden Bums. The men who look and sound good (i.e. can hold a convo on a variety of topics) but once you get into their occupation, goals, how many kids they have, etc. whollllllllllllllle other ballgame. lol

      And I for the LIFE of me can't figure out why in the world I keep attracting these types of dudes when I have the same traits (well except, I'm not into cooking and love shopping lol and love sports, intelligent, blah blah)…

      Bleh lol *ponders*

      1. Oh, I am ACUTELY aware of what my problem is. You see that list up there?^^^^^^^^^ I am not joking. There are no forms of "pretty girl syndrome" in this one. Therein lies the issue. Dudes meet me, start checking off their list of "wife characteristics", get to the bottom of the page…and decide they should probably put this one on the shelf for future use. I always end up finding great men that were just not expecting to meet me at this point in their life (they are usually at the cusp of some big transitional career move), and try to stall, or keep me around, or stay in the 'friend-zone' until they are "ready". Some have even had the audacity to TELL me this, and ASK me to wait! I swear I do not have a big head or anything, but it just happened to me again and at this point I am pissed. Not bitter, just pissed.
        Not saying anything really, just musing.

    2. Amaris herein lies the problem for many women (men have told me this too). You meet some wonderful people who are intelligent, educated, beautiful, sexy, independent, have common sense, fun, out-going, clean, drug and disease free, and just got it goin on and "they just are not in a relationship mood."
      Sometimes it seems when folks know they are great catches and got it goin on and know they are a hot commodity they are less likely to want to settle down and be in a committed relationship (and I used to be like this). What then……..

      1. Don’t sweat them! Honesty, guys like that I kick to the curb. Surprisingly, some actually come back for more. Smh!

  11. First thing i would tell you is to really get down to understand exactly what you are looking for in a woman. What do you want from a relationship? A casual one? A serious one? And what kind of qualities, interests and personality are you looking for? After you have done this you can take to online sites (which I find to be hilarious as I vividly remember the days when internet dating was a cardinal sin…damn near a federal offense lol) but also take time to go to places where those kind of women would be.
    Want a socialite……Go to the clubs, bars, etc
    Want a sportie woman……Try the gym, some sporting group/club (ex: NY Road Runners), etc
    Want a cultured woman….Try museums, art exhibits, poetry readings
    Want a activist type…….Try where ever groups of those people are going to associate/gather
    So forth and so on…..

    Now its not to say that a woman can't be sportie AND cultured. Or cultured AND anything else. I'm just saying people are more often going to frequent places that most cater their greatest interests and thats where you have to be if looking for that kind of person.

    1. As for being lame, I think Spradley put it well, don't worry about what some other man thinks. Be only concerned with the woman who's attention you are occupying. Most of us men, when we get into groups, love to front about how we deal with women. I am not going to get into all the details because I'm sure you know. But basically your peers will tell you its lame to show any care for a woman. These are the same dudes singing Keith Sweat songs talking abuot "Baby, baby please" to whichever woman they may be dealing with when their boys arent around. Just be you and don't worry about what anyone else thinks

  12. I'm going to say something that's probably a bit contrary to everyone else here.

    I say don't even focus on trying to find a quality woman. Focus on your hustle, focus on your interests, and the women will find you. Women like to see dudes that have drive and passion. Ladies, please chime in if I'm wrong. If you've got your hustle going, a quality woman is going to make herself known. At that point, THAT'S when you make your move.

    It reminds me of a saying. "You'll lose money chasing women. But you'll never lose women chasing money."

    1. I'll speak for myself in saying that I'm by no means suggesting that he focus all his energy on finding a quality woman. The idea is to balance your actions with your desires. If a relationship is high on his list of priorities, then the steps that he takes need to reflect that. In business, you don't focus entirely on carrying out your operations while hoping that customers will flock to your products/services. You pay attention to what will attract them, and incorporate it into your corporate strategy. He's already thinking about something along those lines, but not necessarily in a way that would be advantageous to him.

      It's great to focus on your interests and hustles, but do take stock of whether or not they are likely to appeal to the kind of woman that you're after, and whether you as an individual embody other things outside of drive and passion that she would be seeking. There are a million men out there with those traits that would do absolutely zilch for me, and vice versa.

    2. Eh. If we can change "the women will find you" to "the women will let you know that they notice you" I might agree…for the most part.

      I am not down with chasing men. I prefer to be pursued. If a guy is waiting for me to holla at him, he'll be waiting a looong time, lol…and quite possibly miss the opportunity he could have had.

      1. That's basically what I mean. Women will take notice of a dude that's planning his work, and working his plan. When he sees that the woman notices, if he's interested, he needs to make his move.

  13. Due to length (pause) and cost (I've never tried it so couldnt quote a price to you), there is one other area I didn't mention and that's seeking the advice of a trained dating expert. There are a number of services available. One I've seen advertised is "It's Just Lunch" or something along those lines. In my opinion, #theblacks are notoriously bad about seeking professional help in a wide array of areas not limited to dating. But, that's a discussion for another day.

    The reason I recommend such a service is for a couple reasons: 1) A reputable company should have professionally trained staff with backgrounds in professional relationships, psychology, sociology, etc. In other words, it shouldn't be 'Tyrone and Keisha's Hook Up Referral Service' ran out of Pooky and nem house. Further, their statistics, which they should have, should speak for themselves if they are truly good at establishing long-lasting relationships. 2) More importantly, a number of these services meet with both you and the person you went out on a date with and should be able to better assess your strengths and weaknesses. Frankly, we all lie to ourselves. It's human nature. How many of us would be better off (assuming we would listen) if we knew the real reason John/Jane Doe never called us back.

    Other than that, I think some of the recommendations in the comments are a good look as well. However, assuming you arent a "social butterfly" going to any number of random functions to meet women might not be a good look for you personally. Plus, and I could be wrong, it seems like you're generally tired of "the game" already. Like Spradz' analogy, this is why I've suggested more targeted searches. There's no point in continuing to play every sport to figure out what you like if you already know you like basketball. If you like basketball, go to the basketball court. Why waste time at the hockey arena or football field? In other words, if you want a serious relationship – and it sounds like you do – why "waste" time with women who are still looking to just date and see where things go. That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. As we have advised women here plenty of times before, if you want a serious relationship, you should be dating people who also want a serious relationship.

    My recent post Mad Men: Episode 3: Mystery Date

    1. WIM the thing about a dating coach (and any other psycho-therapy) type stuff is once your flaws are pointed out to you, you have to be mentally in a place where your ready, willing, and able, to make the necessary changes to correct your flaws. If not it's a waste of time.

  14. I'm not down with dating sites…like at all. I don't know one person who's tried them thats ended up in a meaningful relationship as a result of joining. I've had one too many negative results returned while doing my poor man's background check on "potentials" from dating sites for my homegirl (google, state case search databases). One was married, one had a history of domestic violence, one had possession of a controlled substance on their record…it was stressful. So glad she gave up on them. I agree with WIM…the men folk got better odds on dating sites.

    Personally, if you're really a good dude with a career/in hard pursuit of a career…far removed from prison (I'm sorry to say it…but this is prob hurting you…big time), I can't see a compatible woman passing you up…if she's willing to move beyond your prison stint. I agree with Sprad's coffee scenario. Just go about your life and get to know those that seem open to getting to know you….then, just let life make the relationship what it should be with that person.

    1. I also wanted to address the prison thing, was the crime violent or non-violent. Are you a felon? If you have been in there long enough to have gotten out of the dating loop that reads as a long ass time. I can't imagine bringing an ex-con to meet my father. Sometimes people gloss over important details in an attempt to make there plight worse than it is in order to garner sympathy.

  15. You sit on your ass and wait for “The One” to magically show up on your doorstep? WTF? That’s stupid. Real life isn’t an ironic romantic comedy. Truth right there. This in and of itself is the main problem…folks put everything into their career and 0 time and energy into finding a good quality relationship and wonder why they are still single in their mid 30's.

  16. 1) What is your definition of lame?
    "A lame dude is a dude who’s perpetually unable to inspire and maintain the attention of women."
    I agree. A lame dude is also one who is highly "ghetto", no street or book smarts and disrespectful.
    3) How can you be “cool” and have “swag” and not fit into the stereotypical ni**a mold. Is it possible??
    "True “swag” is the confidence and conviction to just be yourself." cosign on this too.
    Being cool and having swag starts with self confidence and knowing you look good and got it goin on and are a great catch….if your the first person to know it and act like it and personify it then everyone else will know it to. It will transcend into your walk, talk, dress, style, and overall personality. To me part of having swag is having "charisma" defined by Wikipedia as – "compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others. A divinely conferred power or talent." Sex appeal is also part of having swag.

  17. Tell your female friends that you are looking. If they're "quality" women, most likely, they'll have quality friends. Not everybody likes being hooked up but it's worth a try. Heck, you might learn that one of your female friends is interested in you and you wouldn't be friends with her if she weren't quality right. So…… there ya go. Or if you have some married friends, tell them. Their wives know somebody.

  18. 2) Why does it seem like doing right by women is lame but treating them like rappers portray them is cool and having “swag”?
    "It just seems that way. It’s not really the case. Good women don’t want their men to treat them the way rappers pretend to treat them." Agree with this also….be mindful of the type of women who attract these types of men. Ask yourself are these women u would want to deal with anyway? So in that respect don't worry about the type of women who want those type of men, especially if thats not how you carry it. Focus on the type of women who want a man like you. Ignore all the other chicks or just be cool with them.

  19. I agree with MR Spradley, Najia and Tokyobrown. Personally I find it refreshing that a letter like this is coming from a man. I appreciate the candidness and it nice to know that we women aren’t the only ones that feel this way.

  20. ONLINE DATING IS PROBLEMATIC FOR SEVERAL REASONS:

    1.) Many men on there have girls and use the interwebs to find their unknowing side piece.
    2.) Many men on there use it mainly to get booty calls via the interwebs and not for anything legit.
    3.) The ones that cost money are no more effective than the free ones.
    4.) If you approach men on there, they often assume you're about a booty call.

    "Good" people are everywhere. I met my current dude (who's ridiculously awesome and I'm SO glad it didn't work out with the previous men in my life for this reason) in a BAR. I was so done with meeting men in clubs/lounges/bars. They were just on the prowl and trying to hook up, nothing serious. Even "good" people, when they go into bars, had those motives. But we met randomly, not trying to hook up, but just having after work drinks with friends. One thing led to another and lo and behold, there was a good man in there. I'm pretty sure he wasn't the only one.

    This all applies to either sex.

      1. I suppose, but in my experience, the virtual persona makes it easier for people to mislead others. I'm not a dating veteran by any means, so perhaps I came into the situation much more naive than most.

  21. I agree with the fella's as far as where to find good decent women.
    Honestly though good women are everywhere, just like good men are everywhere. Thing is they may not be packaged in a way that is pleasing to your eye, may not be the most out-going charismatic attention getting people, and may not frequent the places that you do. I honestly believe that if you make an effort to be friendly and speak to folks you can meet good people everywhere.

  22. I'm an out-going people person so I meet folks everywhere I go, literally. I meet men and women that i fairly easily strike up convo's with at the supermarket, laundrymat, church, various events and functions, my zumba classes, work, subway, plane, restaurants, the bank, just everywhere. I met a lady I'm still friends with at the laundrymat. She just came up to me and started talking to me about MaryKay while i'm putting my clothes in the dryer. I came to her Mary Kay party and supported her, and bought some stuff and met her kids and babysat her kids for her once when she went out and the rest is history and that was 3 yrs ago. I made like 10 to 15 close friends from one of my discussion groups on Mike Baisden's site ISeeColor.
    So to the gentleman who asked this question if your not already definitely be more talkative and out-going and friendly to the people you see everyday.

  23. I've known several couples who met online and had long term relationships or got engaged and are now married. I think dating sites are best for people who don't really like to drink and go to lounges or social events.

    The one place I have never been approached is church, which is unfortunate. I see guys all the time at church that seem like someone I'd like to get to know, but maybe they feel weird because "we're there for another reason," but I don't think the Lord would mind lol…he WANTS us to be equally yoked!

    I define lame as trying to be someone/something you're not, so by changing your behavior to attract women, you may just become lame by doing so. Confidence is key. I also agree with the "stay in your league" comments. If you're constantly trying to meet a 10 and you're not at least an 8, you will constantly be disappointed. Try to be all that you ask for in a mate.

    This guys sounds like a nice guy, and I agree with Spradley that what sets him apart is that he truly is looking for more. Good luck with your search!

    My recent post Monogamy is not natural

  24. I also agree with joining a few dating sites. I've done this and it's worked pretty well for me. Join http://www.meetup.com This is a great social networking site. There are plenty of events to go to for single folks looking to date, including speed-dating events. Google speed-dating in your city/state and it will come up with sites that host various speed-dating events in your area. Another thing thats worked really well for me is going out alone. I've met lots of folks hanging out and going places all by myself. Your much more approachable when your flying solo, (or so I've heard). Good luck.

  25. I agree with Jupiter’s advice. Best thing a single guy who’s not that successfull with females, is probably just concentrate on their ambitions.

    And I peeped what someone else noticed, that single guys need to step up and approach women here and there, when the irony is women talk about how the don’t want to be approached. The irony is amusing.

    1. I wouldn't say they don't want to be approached. It's more like they want to be approached…on their terms. Once again, I'm calling on the ladies to correct me if I'm wrong.

      On the way to work or school probably isn't ideal. The author of the letter mentioned not going to bars or clubs, so that doesn't work for him. I'm personally not a fan of workplace romances. If it goes sour, you still have to see that person. Then word gets out around the office about your o-face and how you're not above sucking toes. Not cool.

      It's cliche, but I've struck up conversations in bookstores and libraries, but that works if it's…organic. Like I'm not forcing conversation with the hopes of something more. I'm just a random guy commenting on a book about temporal physics, or phrenology, or the African diaspora. If I get the vibe that she wants to talk further, I make a move. If I don't, I keep it moving. Outdoor events, concerts, and what not are okay too. If it's a situation where there might not be a sense of urgency, the odds are better.

      Basically, there are places where women are going to be more receptive to being approached than others. Of course, this isn't an exact science. Looks and…swag (I hate that word.) can come into play. If you look like Boris or Idris, you might be able to approach that lady heading to work. Conversely, if you look like Cedric the Entertainer, you might have a hard time, even if the sista is in Borders reading a book about Cedric the Entertainer.

      And even still, there are women that don't like being approached by anyone. Nothing you can do about that situation. You just keep it moving.

      1. yeah, i can't force convo, either. and being that most of the women that catch my eye in my encounters out and about (most being, > 80%) are NOT approachable, i keep it moving.

        not trying to be written up on nobody's blog, lol.

        best thing that works for me are things that i'm already involved in.

        1. How do you know 100% if someone is approachable….??? U don't really…u just take a chance and approach.
          Even if someone is frowning I find the thing that works best is a smile and a compliment.
          A good compliment can go a long way and make someone's week.

  26. I was really trying to refrain from putting all my business out on the Internet streets, but I must say this.

    I have met some great guys in the NY/NJ area using dating sites. Many of these men are college educated, attractive, gainfully employed, tall (that's usually what I'm filtering for), have no children (not that theres anything wrong with that), and are looking for relationships. Some are even TOO eager to be in a relationship (I have stories). Even when there was no romantic chemistry, we still remain in contact.

    Now you may be wondering, if they are so great, have you found someone?
    I am currently seeing someone I met online. He's only 6'2, nice looking, super sweet, lives in Brooklyn and is a project manager for the World Trade Center. He pays every time we go out. It's only been 2 months, so I'm not going to rant and rave about the courtship. Just don't knock it till you try it.

    A word of advice to ladies if you do try online dating: Don't put your old undergrad pictures up where you look 7 years younger and 30lbs lighter. This is how you're losing. Be honest.

        1. Thank you. When you are of a certain height, it is not only your duty, but your right to say "only" with your face twisted in disgust when mentioning the height of someone of a shorter stature.

          *sticks tongue out*

          I kid. I kid. ; )

    1. "A word of advice to ladies if you do try online dating: Don't put your old undergrad pictures up where you look 7 years younger and 30lbs lighter. This is how you're losing. Be honest. "

      Yep, exactly.
      My recent post Sex, Yoga, and BDSM

    2. So my question to you is, "How long will you date this guy before you hope he asks if we can be exclusive?"

  27. "True “swag” is the confidence and conviction to just be yourself."

    Say it one mo' gain, Monsieur Spradley. As far as I'm concerned (about a mile), swag has nada to do with WHAT you have in terms of accessories, it's HOW you carry your best accessory: yourself. There are even lame rappers. They have all the money in the world but no real confidence (with themselves) to go with it. Pure confidence with oneself will always trump all with women, IMO.

  28. "I've personally taken some steps of my own to be more appealing to the type of man that I would want, so I use some of them as an example. They work to my advantage because they contribute to me being the kind of woman I ultimately wanted to be, to begin with. "

    THIS!<</strong>
    I practice the same. And believe if more people (men and women) practiced this more often, dating would be much more fulfilling.

    If you're meeting different types of people but getting the same results each time, the common denominator is YOU.

    Check what behavior (or where you're looking) could be contributing to said results, then make a change … you'll be better for it.

  29. I didn't read the previous comment (laziness and the page wouldn't load earlier). Did anyone mention Target? I took a frociate there years ago and he stopped in the middle of the aisle and declared that Target was way better than the club. This might be true because I went there three days last week and I never saw one unattractive woman. And based solely on the items in their baskets, I'm thinking they have basic reading comprehension skills. And, they probably aren't gold diggers cus they're in Targette. Yeah fellas might want to hand out in their local Target.

  30. I heavily agree w/ –> "If you're meeting different types of people but getting the same results each time, the common denominator is YOU."

    I also think if you're that hard-pressed to find the right woman and you're consistently having issues, to consider WIMs and hire a coach. Your approach could be a turn-off or maybe it's something in your personality that just isn't attractive to the type of woman you want, but nobody that personally knows you is willing to tell you that. Ultimately finding the right mate is what you attract and how you approach. If you don't have the ends hire a Alex Hitchens, then consider attending 1 of the SBM events. I sent a homegirl to 1 that the guys had at Empire Room and she's still dating the dude.

    My recent post Is America Ready for A Black Bachelor?

  31. I agree with most of chunk's objections on this thread, but I definitely feel you. I can't recall a single time that I was approached while walking down the street by someone that I found appealing – whether it be based on his approach, presentation, things he said, etc. On my end, I wouldn't say that most of them approach shadily. However, it's fairly obvious from jump that it's going nowhere. I've sorely regretted the few times I've given out my number, because they turned out to be a real bother. You come to associate certain general locations with weak encounters. However, if a guy with the right stuff were to come along, he could disturb me almost anywhere.

  32. Thank you wim and mr.spadley, you definately answered my questions. That being said I think I need to focus on spirtuality and my hustle/job more then women at this point. To all the readers that responded whole heartedly thank you also. Since you all took the time to respond to the post I think its only fair to take equal time to list the revelations acquired by all of your helpful comments. Am not lame after all, lol. In a spand of a month I was called lame for being at a barbeque and not drinking, and once more for not attending an after set. It just made me think to put the question into the blogsphere and see what people thought of the term. In retrospect, my social setting choices are what is poor nothing else. I have a feeling of “don’t forget where you come from” when it comes to my social group, I have to except that am not who I used to be, I have some college behind me, job and responsibilities while my “friends” remain pretty much the same since highschool, time to let the hood go!!!Another response, which actually bothered me, was one where I was accused of not disclosing my criminal past for sympathetic reasons? I wouldnt be on this site if I was looking for a pity party, if you haven’t read these brothas work they don’t candy coat sh*t!!! That’s why I asked them. Just for you responding @ kimmie ill answer in ’01 I was charged with delivery n resisting arrest, I did 4yrs 3mths. @ naija, I think I never even thought about what I wanted in depth because after sex comes into play I didn’t have to work hard anymore, but ur comments were well put n I appreciate it. “Best quote” you can lose $ chasing women, but not one women chasing $

    1. You're most welcome! I'm glad you found them useful, and I wish you all the best. =) And yes, it definitely sounds like you need a new entourage that more closely matches your current state of mind. Also, I used to get called "lame" by my friends for not drinking and going out as well. That was mostly in University, though. I'd just laugh it off, because I'm not one to give in to peer pressure.

    2. Hey Bro. Don't feel bad. I was called a lame myself for not wanting to engage in "casual sex" because I am young, no kids, educated, good career, drive, and etc. It was actually a female who told me this which really shocked me, but I had to explain my reason. My reason for what you stated above which is to become more spritually grounded and wait until I meet someone who is interested in a long term committed relationship. The "smashing chick days" are over for me. I too find that dating is time consuming, people want to rush things, and not take their times getting to really know each other, but in the words of Prince Akeem in Coming to America, "No journey is too great when one finds what he seeks." Do you my brother and glad to see you didn't let one road block deter you. Always live by that quote of "you can lose money chasing women, but not one woman chasing money" and I promise you will be good….

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