Jacking for Beats?
This afternoon, Lupe Fiasco’s first release off of his forthcoming Food and Liquor 2 hit the internet. The song, “Around My Way” samples the Pete Rock and C.L. Smooth classic “They Reminisce Over You.” Revered by any Hip-Hop fan worth their pair of shell toes, “T.R.O.Y.” was a song crafted by the legendary duo after the death of their friend Troy Dixon.
Upon hearing Lupe’s version, T.R.O.Y.’s producer, Pete Rock took to twitter to express his displeasure with Lupe’s work.
Pete Rock’s anger is understandable. Having made the song as a tribute to a dear friend, it’s not hard to appreciate why he might not be happy with someone remaking it. On the other hand, sampling is a foundational element of Hip-Hop. It is through sampling that many of Hip-Hop’s most beloved songs have been created. Pete Rock himself sampled Tom Scot’s “Today” to create the original T.R.O.Y.
It brings up an interesting discussion. Are there some songs in Hip-Hop’s cannon that are virtually untouchable? Are there samples that, once sampled, should never be sampled again? Is T.R.O.Y. one of those?
Check out the Tom Scot’s original joint, check out Pete Rock and CL Smooth’s “T.R.O.Y,” check out Lupe’s update and let me know what you all think.
Tom Scot – “Today” (start listening around the 1:30 mark to catch the sample)
[audio:http://www.singleblackmale.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/07-Today.mp3|titles=07 Today]Pete Rock & CL Smooth – They Reminisce Over You (T.R.O.Y)
[audio:http://www.singleblackmale.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/05-They-Reminisce-Over-You.mp3|titles=05 They Reminisce Over You]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aOjcm0zYUs&feature=player_embedded
Email: Mr.Spradley@SingleBlackMale.org | Twitter: @MrSpradley
Okay, I love Pete Rock/CL Smooth, the song is one of my all time favs…but IMO, if you had to have a Rapper sample your beat, or the beat you sampled, who better than Lupe…at least he rap with some substance! It could have been a Soulja Boy or worse rhyming over the beat! I say creativity is still alive, sample and recreate, this same argument happened when folks first started sampling music period, its part of Hip Hop!
TROY is undeniably a classic, but I do not think we can say it is untouchable. Its the nature of the game. Most of the work produced by Pete Rock contained samples. TROY would not be TROY without the samples. How many records have been sampled by hip-hop producers that come from songs that had a deeper meaning to the original artist?
I love Pete Rock, but to say his work is untouchable is not hip-hop. Let the work speak for itself. TROY > Around My Way.
This is a great point. We have no idea what "Today" meant to Tom Scot. Tom Scot might hate T.R.O.Y.
I get why Pete Rock is upset about this. This song, the lyrics, message, everything about it could have been said over any beat at all. It didn't require TROY. However, I don't agree with Pete Rock, because the song itself is still a sample, so he got it from somebody who probably had this music close to their own heart as much as TROY is close to his heart.
On a music/marketing note, this is a bad decision by Lupe simply because this song can't stand up to this iconic beat. Try to listen to this song and tell me you don't lose interest and turn on TROY instead. You have to murder a beat like this to give it any justice.
unfortunately Im nuetural to this arguement, lupe could have did better by using anoither sample, you can't resample a sample! because then you kill the cultural significance of the song. T.R.O.Y. was a song about his homeboy Trouble-T-Roy who was apart of heavy D. and the boys back in the late 80's who was killed when he fell from a balcony. this song documents a childhood of how they grew up together. its a story! and Lupe obivously didn't listen to this iconic song to understand its cultural relvance. but then again the sample pete rock took was from a time period of the hippie generation. so in most cases its just one culture barrowing from another culture. so there is nothing Pete Rock can do about it! perhaps, he could have approached it with more respect then what he is giving it, maybe have cl smooth come in on a track or two on his album. the biggest problem with today's hip-hop artists is their lack of respect for the older generation of hip-hop. if your going to borrow somebody elses work, atleast have them work with you on the album!
T.R.O.Y. is a classic and one of the 1st songs that peaked my interest in hip hop at an early age. A song that still gets played in my iPod and car to this day at the age of 23. I can see both sides to it. I believe there are some songs that should either never be touched or if attempted, should me tackled by someone of competence. This song came from the heart and it's felt from the first few seconds in. So I can see why Pete Rock would be upset, to a point. BUT the fact that Pete Rock took the sample from someone else, a fact that I did not know until just now, puts holes in his stance. Not that I believe he wants Lupes version pulled, which I hope he doesn't. But I feel that Lupe is one of those artist with the competence to handle a classic like this. All in all, I feel this will blow over, Pete Rock and Lupe will probably talk or reach out to each other, and hip hop classics will continue to be made. In other news, glad that this Food & Liquor 2 is in the works!
Another thing that JUST hit me: it's funny because Lupe had actually freestyled over the T.R.O.Y. beat a few years ago on a mixtape. Even then, I thought he was the right man to do a song like that justice.
Lupe is, always has been, always wiil be a corporate industry cornball artist who does whatever his label or people tell him to do. I always find it funny when people act like Lupe is this deep artist when he is someone different every time he comes out with a record. Theis poser got the sheets pulled offa him when he said he never listened to ATCQ after coming out with "Kick Push" which sounded just like a Tribe record. ____This is the same "Hip Hop" dude that was just on some record with Trey Songs singing his hook. How Hip Hop was that?____According to Him he didn't listen to NY Hip Hop, he supposedly grew up listening to Snoop Dogg and Spice 1 (GTFOH) so how would he even be up on the TROY Joint? ____If he was really Hip Hop he would know there is Hip Hop songs you don't touch. TROY was one of them. Period. ____Either he should've respectfully remade the joint with Pete Rocks blessing or he should've flipped the Thom Scott track into something new. I dont think he is talented enough to do either, hence this awful song from this cornball.____
Man, did Lupe smash ya girl or sumfin? Did he drown your puppy? Did he stea lall the ducs out yo doobie ash tray? Why all the hostility LOL? I'd rather hear some cornball artist like HIM rather than some of deez morons tellin me to shoot somebody or get some chick pregnant. I do tihnk that he should have maybe spoken to PR about the song first. That is all.
Real talk… Hommie sounds like a hater smh.
No Beat in Hip Hop is untouchable. T.R.O.Y. is the greatest instrumental of all time, but it is not untouchable.
To people like me who grew up with TROY and other classics, hearing them sampled is akin to committing a crime. Its just not supposed to happen. But at the same time, there's another generation of younger heads (Lupe included), and these songs mean little to nothing to them. Sure there will be some hip hop heads who go back and do their research, but to a large extent a song like this has had its time to shine. It'd be different if last week TROY came out and then Lupe said, "I like that beat, let me release another song with it (and call it a remix)".
I mean, being grown now, I listen to Biggie's album (Ready to DIe) which unquestionably is a classic and then I go back and listen to the original versions of some of the songs he sampled and I'm like "these are great songs", some of which I probably would have never listened to had it not been for that album.
Its just the nature of the game. I understand that there's a personal story behind the song, but why Pete Rock wrote it and what the song got me through in my life (and what it could help others get through) are entirely different things, so I'm not really considering that.
It'd be different if we were talking about whether and how much artists should be compensated for sampling, but as to whether some songs shouldn't be sampled, nah I say go right ahead, but understand that if you trying to redo a classic, then you'd better come correct cause if you sample Dead Presidents and make it sound like garbage we're gonna have a problem.
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The main problem here is that Lupe didn’t ask Pete Rock for his blessing. Have some respect.
I think Pete Rock OD. If the song was so untouchable why did he let Mr Cheeks, my name sake, do a remake back in 03… because he got to produce it??? So if Pete gets a check you can touch a classic but if someone else takes his SAMPLE and bypasses him, its disrespect to the legend.
Look I try to be fair in my beef evaluation between new jacks and legends. Some the legend tend to be a little to self centered. I remember when the dudes who are now legends were new jacks, the old heads never made sense to me and I promised myself when I got old I would try to be more objective.
That said the new lupe song is pretty forgettable. Lupe is not even a hip hop head, I doubt that TROY means that much to him.
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And that right there is the true argument. The beat is classic and whenever I hear the horn start off the track, it takes me back to Pete Rock album. However, old head is just heated b/c Lupe didn't give him shine.
Lets get it straight, I love Lupe Fiasco. What is not to like, lyrically, philosophically, and musically, he is on par with the best in the game right now. I fully believe that in 10 years The Cool will be recognized for the classic album it is, no disrespect to heads right now, but Lupe is just that far ahead in his game. With that being said, one of the reasons I like him is his willingness to go in the opposite direction. He never seems hesitate to go to a different place, to try a different approach, and it keeps the music fresh, it keeps me coming back for more. When it works. With this song it does not work. While I do not believe that there are any sacred cows in hip hop, or any music for that matter, there is a basic level of respect that should be observed when sampling any music, but most especially music done in tribute. No Lupe did not have to ask Pete Rock to sample that song, but by the intensely personal nature of that song, he should have gone to Pete Rock and told him what he wanted to do, and asked him to make a beat that fit with the song Lupe wanted to do. I am sure Pete's dissappointment mirrors my own, the worst part here is that the track is sloppily handled. That would be bad if it were just a good track, or just a classic, but as this one is both of those and in memoriam it moves past offensive and on to blasphemous. I believe that every artist today who has that true love and feeling for hip hop should know that whatever they achieve they have done so because they have stood on the shoulders of giants. They should recognize the need to tread carefully out of respect for themselves and hip hop's legacy, which they will have a hand in carrying forward. I don't think it was ego that led Pete Rock to make the comments he did, he doesn't need the shine, he is legend and a master at what he does, what he asked is that we show respect for his music, and for those who are no longer with us. I don't think he should even have had to ask.
Pete Rock is incredibly hypocritical, he sampled to create his track, now he has a cry of his own track getting sampled. You have to be kidding me, did he ever think that the original track meant something to the people that made that? Seriously, he needs to pull his head out of his arse and wake up, if you sample don't whinge about people sampling you wear it as a badge of honour that someone enjoys your music enough to sample it.