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Should Women Help Pay for Dates?

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Editor’s Note: A few members of the SBM team have begun contributing their thoughts on dating and relationships to the popular website, Madame Noire. This week I was asked to provide the male perspective on if or when women should offer to pay for dates in response to the following article from Marissa Ellis’ Dating Dynamics: When Should You Start Paying for Dates?

Considering that all my friends have different perspectives on this topic, I definitely would say there are no rules, although non-oblivious folks have clear opinions on the matter. Those two friends I mentioned previously, who believed in not paying during the initial dating phase, believe that they’re setting a certain standard of how they’d like to be treated. They see themselves as prizes to be won; women to be supremely courted. If they make it too easy for these men, then he would undermine their value.

As Marissa said, “there are no rules.” I’m also not sure most men’s expectations adjust in direct correlation with the amount of money they spend or “invest” in a woman. For instance, the type of man who expects sex or a relationship from a woman will likely expect sex or a relationship from a woman regardless of the amount of money he does or does not spend in acquiring his goal. In other words, just because a man takes you on a $200 dinner date doesn’t mean he suddenly feels you owe him something in return. He most likely felt you owed him something by merely being in his presence. The dinner is only a means to an end. I (hope) you don’t believe every man who pays for dinner feels the woman owes him something in return. Further…

See Also:  Do Men Ever Step Up Without A Woman's Expectations?

The more successful a man is the less value he places on individual dating expenses. This is one of the faults in basing your worth on how much money a man does or does not spend on you. While I see the logic behind this idea, it becomes less applicable as you date men that are more successful. Is a man who respects you but does not have the financial means to court you greater than a man who doesn’t respect you but does have the means to court? Perhaps you desire both qualities – financial stability and R-E-S-P-E-C-T.

Regardless, it is far less taxing on a man who makes $130,000 a year to take you on expensive dates than it is for a man who makes $30,000 a year, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he has more feelings for you. Therefore, assuming a man who spends more money courting – on dinner or other activities – equates to him having more feelings invested in you can be misleading or outright wrong. Men with money can afford to spend more of their money completely independent of how they feel about you as a person…

You can read the full post by clicking here.


Also, please be sure to check out my previous MadameNoire post here.

See Also:  Does a Woman's Relationship with Her Father Affect Her Relationships?

Comment(84)

  1. I'm a old fashioned and will not ask a man out initially. But after a few dates and an established friendship, at least, I will ask him out and pay for the date. When it comes to a relationship, it depends on the situation and the finances. No rules, whatever works for the team.

    1. Co-sign. As a man, I have no problem paying for the first few dates cause "a brother has to eat also." Considering the fact I asked you out on a date, I obviously think you are eye candy so what brother wouldn't want eye candy on his arm? I think after a few dates (3-4), a woman should atleast offer or ask if she could treat me for a dinner or an outing. It's something called being considerate in my opininon.

    2. Sexism is still sexism, even if you call it "old fashioned".

      I am old fashioned and expect women to cook, clean and keep their mouths shut.

  2. I really don't get it – I've never had this issue as in EVER – but I am also of the mindset that a 1st date should be for drinks or coffee – $20 or less its to get to know someone and not how much money they will spend on you. But maybe its just me and the men I attract even in friendship. I have never had to pay for a meal when I am in a 1:1 outing. Now don't get me wrong I have paid the bill and it was normally me snatching the bill to do so or a birthday but I just don't understand this I guess. I also don't have a problem offering either and with sincerity I guess that's the difference also. Its not an expectation it just happens.

    1. I have had this issue, more often than not. From first date. I haven't been in the dating game for a LONG time, so at first I just thought it was a "new" thing 'till I told my friends, who were horrified. *shrug*

    2. Nina I agree….I've never felt a first date should be a big production. I think it should be more about talking and getting to know one another rather than where u go and what u do. Regardless of what u do and where u go you should be able to enjoy each others company. Two or Three times I have had men tell me they don't pay and they prefer to go dutch until they have been out with the woman a few times. They say they don't feel like they should pay for someone they may not even like and may not want to go out with again. I totally understand and have no problem with it so I pay my own way. Men I have been in relationships with I have paid for the entire date. I do it because I want to do it and I don't expect anything extra special in return. Just a thank you and to know they enjoyed it and appreciated it is enough. I don't give just to receive. Thats why folks are disappointed when they don't get.

  3. I don't see why it is an issue either. My policy is to offer to pay my half, unless he insists on paying. He gets extra points for insisting, but I don't subtract points if he lets me pay my half. I will just assume he's gonna evaluate me as a person and decide if its worth pursuing further. He's not gonna try to impress me with a meal. I'm cool with that, I'm doing the same thing. That's why I probably won't go to an expensive place for the first date anyway. Too many possible assumptions and expectations. I will lose his number if he asks me to pay before I offer, tho. That's just…..no.
    My recent post Approachable vs. Hot

        1. "He gets friend zoned, cause that's the international sign for "lets be friends"."

          No. That's YOUR interpretation. You just use that as an excuse to dump men who didn't pay for your meal. Stop blaming men for YOUR actions. You CHOSE to put him in the friend bin. I went dutch with my current girlfriend. After we went dutch, I told her that I was interested in going on another date. By telling her that, I was able to show I wanted more than friendship.

  4. I never quite understood what the big deal was about when it came down to the bill. I guess unless I was broke. But my momma always taught me to always be prepared, That meant extra undies, extra money, and to eat before you leave anyway. LOL!!

    I guess I'm different when it comes down to dating. I guess you can say I'm a little gangsta to be a female but if I approach a man and conversation is sparked, being as though i was the one who made the initial approach, i would probably be the one to ask him out on a date. Which goes a little something like, "I enjoyed talking to you, you should let me take you out some time." And in this instance, I guess you can say everything usually falls into place just as if it was the "man's" job. Reactions from them were somewhat tricky to try to figure out, but no one ever turned down the offer. I guess they were curious as to where things would go being that I was the dominating one. *shrugs* Until now, I had never even given it a thought.

  5. This is my thing: I'm not doing jack anymore. Exhaustion and fatigue have set in it's all over me. I'm doing jack. I'm not getting up. I'm not taking care of myself. I'm not paying for jack. This WILL be a dead lift for *any* man let alone someone who's coming out of the gate AS a man. Either you're successful or you're going to be because I'm not budging unless my partner sees me worth investing in. I'm your woman. Your future wife and mother of your children. You already know that when you initially encounter me so know that the whole "providing for your woman and ensuring her happiness" rule is applicable throughout our lifetime. I'm not dating anybody either you know or you don't. Either you're willing to invest or you aren't. The emotional aspect is why I preferred men who are base and who see this in me when *I* am base because they are more apt to building an emotional attachment. After the fact, wealth is a taught skill like a mofo. All you have to do to pay for our life is listen. Execute.

    1. Wowsers. Dude has to treat you like your his future wife and mother of his unborn children from jump? I'm all for treating people with respect and courtesy, but treating someone like a life partner when they're a stranger at that point makes no dang sense.

      1. Cosign on that Kitkat……..If I was a man I damn sure wouldn't be giving royal caribbean treatment to women I just met just off of gp…….thats dead.

      2. lol. Yes. Why would I be checking for anything less than a life partner? I'm sorry. I'm about to seem real stuck up….but I've never been approached less than 'be my wife' (by strangers) so I wouldn't assume I should be treated any less than a life partner. If he's not treating me like a wife and mother he's treating me like….

        He's figuring out if I'm an adequate life partner. So, dating is almost pointless when I can just look and tell who's husband material and who isn't and I approach them on that level. In all seriousness, men don't wanna date me when they see. They already know. So yeah, I expect that treatment even from strangers.

  6. My rule has always been "Whoever asks, pays."

    The only thing is men ask women out more often. That's how it is, that's how it probably always will be. I guess to that end, it's going to work in favor of women.

    1. And that is my problem with that rule. "Whoever asks pays"…yet it's mostly the guys that are forced to ask. If a guy doesn't ask…then the female won't ask him out…but rather question her friends as to why he won't ask her out and then stop talking to him over time if he never asks.

      I refuse to be with ANY woman that things its my obligation to pay for all of our dates and outings. I make far more than the vast majority of Americans, so I'm not broke. I was raised in a traditional old school house hold. But at the same time…I am for equality. I am ok with paying for most dates just because, but if she isn't paying for anything…we can't work out!!

      1. Naw, you are for SELECTIVE equality. You just want the benefits not the burdens. You don't want to take off 1 year of work in your peak years to child raise. You don't want to do 2/3 of the housework. You don't want to put yourself behind others, hyphenate or take your spouses name. GTFOH. Equality. I'll believe it when I see it.

        1. Actually, you don't know anything about me to even come up with that conclusion. And you honestly sound like you'll be better off finding a woman to be with.

          1, Take a year off from work? It's better for the woman to take time off so she can heal and get back on her feet after birth. But if my future wife and I agree that its best for me to take the time off, I have no problem with it.

          2, Two-Thirds of the house work? I have no problem doing 50% of it. Who says its mandatory for the woman to do the majority?

          3, Who is putting themselves behind others? That is a personal choice. I don't expect my future wife to do that nor would I do that. Angry about something?

          4, I won't hyphenate my name or take hers. Why? It's American culture. I was recently talking to an Egyptian girl…their tradition is different. She wouldn't take on my name, and I would have been cool with it.

          So like I said, you don't know me whatsoever. Just because you have bad choice in men doesn't mean we're all bad choices…

        2. So you want all the traditional benefits of patriarchy but don't wanna pay for dates. Sounds selfish and self-centered to me.

        3. LMMFAO!! You honestly think women want men to raise the children, while they die slowly in their daily 9-to-5 grind? You honestly think women will marry down financially, so men will have the option to stay-at-home? You honeslty think women will tell their future husband's that they want to hyphenate their last names?

          The reason this isn't happening is because women don't want it to happen. And by the way, the housework statistics are based upon anecdotal evidence. Show me something tangible. Let's not forget that men usually earn more than women. So it stands to reason that women would pull more weight at home if men are pulling more weight at work.

  7. Sensesocommon 1 time I gave a guy I was dating a dozen red roses since he said "women are always expecting flowers from men, but men never get any flowers." Girl the look on his face was priceless…….lol

  8. It depends but before the relationship begins, I think its necessary that "Whomever asks, pays." With that said, the guy should be the first to pay for a date. I think after the relationship is established, its nice for both partners take the initiative in planing and executing dates. It shows that both partners are working towards building a bond. Taking responsibility and appreciating and placing high value on each others company is the key…

  9. How are you guys pushing thirty or IN your thirties still talking about dating. The WORD dating sounds like it belongs in high school let alone the practice of it. I'm not playing the dating game, sorry. My life is high stakes. We're talking marriage investments not frivolous auditioning. At this point, this age, you should embody men and women and have the eye for your partner. It's crazy to me. I can provide clarity at the expense of being polite.

    Me: *sees man* My husband.
    Man: *sees me* My wife.
    Me: I want XYZ and you're paying for it. This is how.
    Man: Okay.

    *45 levels beneath us*

    Desperate people: Who is this b*tch. I'm convincing myself it's still appropriate to be dating around this late in life.

    1. "Me: *sees man* My husband.
      Man: *sees me* My wife.
      Me: I want XYZ and you're paying for it. This is how.
      Man: Okay."

      Well, just make sure you do all that before midnight because the stagecoach will turn back into a pumpkin.

      1. lol. *watches man on unicorn passing by my field of vision* someone like that crossing my path at this time in my life. I'm going to assume he's stable financially. I'm not robbing the guy of his hard earned money I don't wanna work anymore I wanna bear and raise children. I'm pretty nifty myself with money and I have an eye for quality; I'll tell him what I want and at least contribute guidance to affordability. It's relatively simple just be a nice, strong guy and do this for me. *pushes boobs together* Is it really that much of a fairytale to you?

        I'm sure it is. I very well should do this before before my undercarriage turns into a bitter glop with several seeds still in it.

        In my world, men who can and do make such offers and women who are worthy of them is common practice. Yes, most people are out of time to make such a life happen and fumes will overpower wretched sisters. trying on my shoes when you know you don't fit the bill. At least everyone knows not to assume it will work that way for them. It took decades of effort and such pure vows don't expire with time.

        1. "Is it really that much of a fairytale to you?"

          Wanting to be a wife and mother, not wanting to work, and being with a husband who can be the sole breadwinner? No, not at all, it's an admirable aspiration. Walking up to a man and saying, "my husband", and thinking the response is going to be anything but bewilderment? Yes.

          If you can somehow pull that off, God bless you and your union. However, I think your strategy may need some work.

        2. *everything comes to a screeching halt*

          Lol. I thought that said "Waking up to a man". I was so appalled. But yeah. I haven't exactly figured out that part yet. Partially because I'm so used to being able to just freely express myself with a man I've already known for a while and partially because I'm used to being in a position of leadership….and partially because I'm extremely hormonal and my aggression level is OC. I come off tweaky and commanding. Even for myself I find it a little off-putting to just walk up to a grown man and be like….'you seem like my husband now pay for my desires in a timely manner'. I did it once. Once. *stares off and feels the tension* But he did it first. He randomly told me we're getting married so I just….laid it out there. I'm not so sure how it works with someone I don't really know or haven't met or just encountered. I'm not even sure it's necessary to dwell on.

        3. ….kind of. I actually baited him into wanting me that way and he sorta snatched me up and then I smirked and brainwashed him into being a provider….

          but it's the same thing as him randomly approaching me. I didn't realize he was watching me so I guess the approach thing…maybe. Hm. Men should be more forthcoming so I know it's okay to approach them that way. It's why I like when they "brag".

        4. "I actually baited him into wanting me that way and he sorta snatched me up and then I smirked and brainwashed him into being a provider…. "

          Osh kosh begosh!

        5. "I actually baited him into wanting me that way and he sorta snatched me up and then I smirked and brainwashed him into being a provider…. " That bit of info right there is something you shouldn't ever tell a man you want to be with, or anybody else for that matter. ijs____

        6. You missed the part where I said it was unintentional. I didn't realize he was watching me or paying attention I was seducing him without realizing it and when he told me we're getting married I lead him down the path of what it is to be a provider. I don't think that happens with other men but I intentionally try to be unappealling to prevent such occurances and if I wanted to be with one I would just….tell the truth. and the truth is men who desire me get real stupid and I get real straight forward. I don't want any mix ups so everyone needs to know don't get drunk on me. It was meant to be a deterrent.

        7. Sigh. I think I'm just gonna hold the pressure inside me. Other men shouldn't really matter to me anymore when I already know he stretches his time with me and provides other worldly care when it's said and done. He's just so slow. It feels like I'm dying of tension and neglect. I don't think that's anyone else's problem. *sucks in my mouth piece* No need to strategize an approach to men I don't actually need. Ay. Cheers to the dating game and women who pay for dates.

  10. In 2012, in a progressive semi-egalitarian Western society (where you live in the big cities) , absolutely women need to help with the bill… That is all…

    1. Nah, women changed in the culture wars but men stayed the same. No need to alter course because men are not operating with 'equality' in mind… most men still consider themselves superior… so their superior butts can pay the bill!

      1. Personally, men & women subconsciously understand that men are superior, even in 2012 with all the diva dudes… But I still like the equality game… Let's keep playing

        1. BOL. Most men are inferior. Seriously. It's not even a bell curve with Black men… it's an asympotote… with most falling on the broke/jail/crackhead/can't keep a job side ad infinitum.

        2. If you define BW based on hoes/attitude/OOW/can get/keep a man swag… I can match you black man to black woman…

          Have at it

        3. Right, call me when Black men are even MATCHING college acceptance and graduation rates of Black women. Call me when 1/4 of them stop acting a fool and ending up in jail over some dumb 'ish.

        4. C'mon Son, for the help the Black women are the favored group when y'all are young girls, and expect black boys to magically get it together when they are men…

          But 9% of American BW have a degree… & you still gotta get hired dude… Oh & you get a smaller dating pool to work with when you earn money…

          Get over yourself

  11. I used to pay for dates or go Dutch but I stopped… and surprisingly, or maybe unsurprisingly, this has yielded better results as it tends to reinforce a lot of guys view about themself being the 'provider'. I was scared the first time because I thought he would think I was stuck up… nope… immediately got offered a second dinner date, no qualification. Something about a guy having to pay for you makes him sorta think you're worth it, by reaching for your wallet it often makes him wonder if you're worth it and no second date. Point is, you cannot listen to what guys on these blogs say… that is *not* what they do in real life. They deep down want a princess but if you act like desperate like you wanna impress them with your 'equality', they don't want it. And I don't feel guilty when it doesn't work out… Men view s&x this same way. They ain't going to turn it down if it's coming free, even if they don't plan on having a relationship with that person.

    1. You are so right. I thought it would add clarity to my dating life if I'd paid but no instead it led to much confusion, neurality and sometime hostility from the men. My girlfriend believes waiting to release her coins until after marriage. Also I don't approach men at all, I just learn to be approach- able to the men I am trying to attract. To be honest, there is no "right" way every guy is going to be different. All you can do is find out what is your type and what approaches work best with him.

      1. Yeah, if and when I do find that guy who really is about that equal life, I don't mind Dutch. But since that is so rare… and most guys list 'wanting a woman who cooks' etc, they will get all the traditional expectations they expect from me in reverse. I'm not trying to be a 2012 woman for a dude with his mentality in 1950. That is a set up. It will be a long time before men are really viewing us as equals, it may never happen.

        On the other hand, show up and look cute/made up… don't go on about your independant life, etc. because they he will look at you funny when you aren't trying to pick up the tab.

        1. "Yeah, if and when I do find that guy who really is about that equal life, I don't mind Dutch. But since that is so rare… and most guys list 'wanting a woman who cooks' etc, they will get all the traditional expectations they expect from me in reverse."

          That's how I view females. Most of them expect 1950s in the dating world, and 2012 in the workplace. Fuck outta here.

    2. @SweetAss

      It is amazing how your concept of BM & incentives has evolved, whereas you thought it was foolery when we were discussing marriage.

      I see you like to play on people's intelligence

  12. You could always eliminate the issue by going on fun dates that are relatively free. But if you do create a bill, he should probably just pick up the tab.

    1. Yeah, but it's on the dude to initiate and pick what he can afford. Musuem, free concert and ice cream cones,etc. Don't invite a lady out to a steak house if you ain't got it like that.

      1. Exactly! This is where being the initiator is excellent because that responsibility is coupled with an extraordinary power! You can control the location, venue, activity, time of day, day of the week, anticipated cost, and most importantly, the amount of time you're going to allocate to the date.

        If things start deviating from the original plan (maybe for the better because you're both having such a great time) and some spontaneity gets sprinkled into the date, then he should probably just pick up the tab if one arises.

        1. "Exactly! This is where being the initiator is excellent because that responsibility is coupled with an extraordinary power!…."

          …..lol. That explains my inherent need to approach men. Huh! Guess I can be easy now.

          Alakaii's version of a date: lets go look at this housing market data. and you know. while we're at it. How bout we stop by the dealership and price sporty family vehicles. Hm. Let's chill on the sofa and talk business/ideas/plans. No, no. Let's not go drinking. How's about we go to Wegman's and you show me all the stuff you want. Let's go health insurance shopping. Yes. I'm happy you're sober for this, Love.

        2. I at first I was a little confused, but then I realized that "tab" could likely be directly associated with and imply "bill for alcoholic beverage(s)" since it is so commonly located adjacent to and used in conjuction with the word "bar."

          My intent wasn't to infer paying for a drinking date, but rather any incidental costs that could unexpectedly arise. You know, the parking fee, metro quickly to a new location fee, or catch a cab back to the car because it's getting late and we're a little tired from being out all afternoon fee, an entrance to the impromptu movie/show/festival fee, the "oh I love funnel cakes! Awesome! me too!" and then you buy one fee, or "my throat is so parched, I need some water," and then you buy a bottle of water fee; just to name a few.

          Those are all great ideas for low cost or relatively free dating activities and also great ideas for Saturday afternoon dates with the spouse/significant other! They could certainly spark some interesting conversation!

        3. lmao. You're cute. The drinking thing was just me assuming men still meet women in bar/lounge/club type settings so they're too intoxicated for any real conversation. The point I was making though was sober men interacting with me doesn't really lead to dates. I'm quite a homebody I'd rather just have significant/intellectual conversation on a comfy sofa.

          I don't really see the purpose of those outtings. I did that with my female friends. If I'm gonna go out with someone I want it to be really fun. Hm. Like. I've always wanted to discover Atlantis. Maybe we could like go on a treasure hunt or something. Like. Go some place with a story behind it and see what the story is about, like haunted houses but no because that's scary. Or to a botanical garden because I like nature. but this is purposeful stuff. It's getting to know one another as partners.

  13. I’ve noticed a pattern whereby the more a woman does for a man the more he is likely to take her for granted. As women we should actually curb our desires to cater to guys. Also, listen to them when they say they don’t care about or respect our financial independence… Take that at face value and let him pay because your gesture is most likely overlooked or to your detriment.

  14. I will do the whole reach for my purse move when the bill comes however deep down I expect the man to pay. If he doesn't, off to the friend zone he will go. In the friend zone, I will pay for dinner a couple of times.

    1. "I will do the whole reach for my purse move when the bill comes however deep down I expect the man to pay."

      So you're a fake. You make disingenuous offers to test men. Wow, you are such an adult. God forbid you act like a grown woman. I'm guessing single and staying that way. Men are tired of the double standards. If you want me to pay for your dinner, I expect you to suck my cock.

  15. I don't pay for dates. I don't reach for my purse and pretend as if I'm planning to pay for dates. I married a man that could provide for both of us with my money being gravy. That marriage ended, but that expectation didn't. I play my position, you play yours.

  16. I am a bra burning feminist, but I never want to live in a world where n*ggas think it's debatable whether they should pay for the first date or not.

    By the way, people still going on "dates" like that huh? Where they do that at…

    1. "I am a bra burning feminist, but I never want to live in a world where n*ggas think it's debatable whether they should pay for the first date or not."

      The cognitive dissonance is staggering. That's like saying, "I am an avid supported of the NAACP, but I never want to live in a world where n*iggas are treated as equals."

      You, maam, are not a feminist. You want salad bar feminism, in which you select the best of traditional, and the best of egalitarianism. You're no different than men who want their wives to be employed, while also demanding they do domestic chores. Either be equal, or be a housewife. Until you realize that choosing both is a feminist contradiction, dating will continue to be a nightmare.

  17. This concept is amazing to me!! Completely and utterly amazing. We live in a society where women had a revolution but men are told to stick to old gender stereotype roles while also thinking like new age men. That ish is an oxymoron. Nevertheless, while I see myself as a great catch with very high standards, one of them is that any woman I date must be for paying for dates sometimes.

    The funny ish is that people are talking about men being the "provider"…..WTF?!? We aren't married, I'm not your father, I'm some guy you're talking to. This makes no sense whatsoever. It's funny how women talk about being independent, educated, make just as much as men…but want the men to pay for everything. Men became accustomed to paying in the old times because women didn't make as much money or had none at all…times have changed.

    1. Since when have men acted 'new age'… most men still don't do their share of housework, most men still don't do most of the child rearing, most men still expect the same things men expected of women in 1950.. ie. that she would cook and clean for him. You cooked and cleaned for yourself when you were single, why is that a priority for you in a mate? Is she your maid? Every single dang day I hear men having old school requirements of women but want new school treatment… gtfoh. Naw. When I see dishwashing commericals and other home cleaning products advertise to as many men as they do women… then we will talk about splitting the bill. Until that day, pony up.

      How many times have men said, 'we don't care if you are independent, all that matters to us is that you look good and can cook?' Well, if you don't care how much she makes at work, why should she bring out that dough on a date? You don't care to hear about her independence… so she can let you be 'the man' just like you want to.

      1. So in other words you and your friends dealt with one kind of guy and now you generalize all of us? Oh…alright. Thanks for the update. Cooking and cleaning is important because I want my kids to be raised in a home with home cooked meals and not eating out. I have no problem doing half the work load in the house. I can cook and have done it professionally before.

        Dishwashing commercials….that was a bad example since majority of partners that stay at home with the kids are women. That's not a stereotype…its a fact. A lot of women CHOOSE to stay at home or grow up wanting it. It's also amusing that men are laughed at fi they want to stay at home.

        And you really are messing with the wrong guys and trying to judge us all. Make some self evaluation is needed. Not a single one of my male friends have EVER said they don't care if a female is independent. I can't remember that ever. If I tell any friend or family member about a female in my life or someone I would like to introduce them to…how she looks and can she cook is never a question (because its a given), so what is asked is about her education level, career, etc. So yeah…you really might need that self evaluation lol

        1. This isn't opinion. Housework division statistics back this up. The man who does the most housework only ever does 1/3. No matter what men say, what they do is much, much less.

          If you really believe in equality… it wouldn't matter if a woman had housemaker skills or not.

          So, again, your whole… 'I believe in equality' argument is b.s. because you don't — you have no problem getting all the benefits of being a man in a man's world. Sorry, if that is the case… you should have to pay for dates. Why should women get the short end of the stick? Not get courted properly AND have to sacrifice our careers? That is b.s.!

        2. "Housework division statistics back this up. The man who does the most housework only ever does 1/3. No matter what men say, what they do is much, much less."

          And wage gap statistics assert that women earn less than men due to choices. Why would a man perform most of the dmoestic chores if he is bringing in more bacon?

          "Not get courted properly AND have to sacrifice our careers?"

          How many men have forced a woman to sacrifice their careers at gunpoint? None. Women CHOOSE to stay home, mostly because their husbands earn more. After all, that's why they married them. Start choosing men with incomes smaller than your own, and you won't have this problem.

      2. "Until that day, pony up."

        How's that working out? Men found a courtship loophole. We pump and dump women. Once upon a time, it took chivalry to get into a woman's pants. Those days are gone.

        I have had sex over 20 times, and I have NEVER paid for a date. I didn't even court my current girlfriend. She is a real feminist, unlike the fakers out here.

      3. I'm a very open-minded guy. I haven't dated in many years because I'm so tired of the double standards. I think it's disgusting that women want to have the best of both worlds, e.g. being financially independent and bossy, and at the same time expect the men to pay for everything. I also think it's equally disgusting that men would expect women to earn a second income and do all the housework.
        Let me just say a few things about me. I am all for true equality, and that means rights and responsibilities, give and take.
        I believe a women should pay for some to half of the dates, just as the man should do some to half of the cooking, cleaning, and housework. Btw, I am a great cook every time I cook for my friends they love my cooking.
        The cruel truth is, the old-fashioned 1950's way was equal. It's just that men and women were forced into roles by society on the basis of something we didn't choose and can't change (our gender). The goal of equal rights was so that men and women could pick and choose how to live their lives and not on the basis of gender. It seems that the modern gender war is based on the idea that women have gained equal rights but men haven't. Some argue that much hasn't changed for women either.
        Wake up and smell the roses!!! I am 100% for equal pay for women. I am 100% for men doing a significant portion of the housework. I am 100% for women paying their fair share of the dates as well.
        It seems that most women want to have their financial independence so they can save money to bail in case something doesn't work out. It seems most men think they're incapable of doing traditional women's work.
        My charge to women. You can't have it both ways. Equal rights comes with equal responsibilities. If you want to have financial independence, you need to be willing to pay your dues and that means paying your share of the dates and abdicating some of the housework to the men.
        My charge to men. You can't have it both ways. Equal rights comes with equal responsibilities. If you want to have a woman help you financially so you aren't working 100 hour work weeks, you need to be willing to participate in the housework.
        My second charge to women. Some women actually complain that they offer to pay part of the dates and men turn down the offer. You aren't a princess and less or more of a person for paying part of the dates. Men do actually get off on the idea of paying for dates, as it makes him think he has the power outside the home.
        My second charge to men. Some men actually complain that women are capable of doing double-duty (e.g. work outside and inside the home) and that men are incapable of housework on the grounds of women being better multi-taskers. You aren't a prince and less or more of a person for doing your share of the house work. Women do actually get off on doing all the housework, making her think she has the power inside the home.
        Everyone, JUST GROW UP. Either we have equal rights and responsibilities, or we go back to the 1950s. This is why the Tea Party is trying to take over this country. This is why Mitt Romney wants to overturn Roe vs. Wade.
        Realize that neither men nor women are superior. God didn't create one to be better than the other, but to work as a team. Btw reincarnation is real and most of us have been the opposite gender in past lives and will be the opposite gender in future lives. Just remember in another life you may be on the other side of things.
        The same line of thinking that one group of people is superior or more entitled to another is what started World War II and slavery in the USA. Now we're fighting WWS (World War Sex).
        Life doesn't owe anyone anything and we all get what we work for. Everything is earned in this world. So to all the men AND women please grow up and get a reality check.

  18. All you have to do is think a little more streamlined when it comes to being successful and maintain the gender role of providing for your woman and the family you'll begin with her.

    This does not apply to women boasting their careers or independence and who can not truly carry a home life. Those sort of women are glad to help as they should be since they want so bad to be seen equal to men. This is the dating game. Hoping to win. Skyrocketing the divorce rates cuz you eventually realize you got saddled with a woman trying to be a man in a man's world and your whole home dynamic is thrown off because of it.

    True domestics are a lifetime of effort so men should understand a woman's quality upon encountering her. Domestic woman = provider. Personally? I was raised to be domestic and docile so I didn't root myself in a career. I took corporate America on some Danny Ocean rob the house type isht; got to the top by default of creativity and acumen, then transferred all of my money to good causes. Everything I learned will be indoctrinated to a willing provider as my focus is health and wellness in preparation for child-bearing. This is best done with a person you have a pre-existing relationship with.

  19. After looking at the comments, I'll stay out of this one today. It's not only been talked about plenty of times but it's obvious things done changed and everyone is still adjusting.

    Now excuse me while I watch the screeching onslaught over at Madam Noire.

  20. The fact the men are really up in arms about paying for a first date is scary. The fact that men want to see you reach for your purse in an attempt to pay just so they know you’re not using them is even scarier.
    I’m sorry but once a woman starts pulling money out of her pocket to early, she’s bound to attract a man that’s a user. I have no problem leaving the tip on a first date, but if I pay the bill or my half then it wasn’t a date. Now if we’ve been on two or three dates, I have no problem paying once in a while. If we do dinner and a movie, I’ll pay for the movie. Or if I see something you might be interested in, I’ll take you out.
    It’s really sad that men are sitting here crying about paying on the dates. I’m sure if your mother, sister or daughter walked into your house and said she flipped the bill for the first date or the majority of the dates, you would give her the side eye. If you are that up in arms about paying for dates or treating your lady, then don’t date.

    1. "If you are that up in arms about paying for dates or treating your lady, then don’t date."

      LOL! Sure thing!

      I always pay on the first date. Always. First five or six perhaps; it's just my nature, I never keep count, and it's not like I miss the money. But if a woman makes as much or more than I do, with her independent self, she better start offering to pay for something (tip, drinks, parking), or she will get relegated to 1950 dating standards. After all, that's clearly what she wants.

      Granted, we're pretty much in agreement because you're willing to chip in after a few dates. But even with the fear of "attract(ing) a man that’s a user", let's not act like there aren't women out there who have no interest in a guy who will use him to get free meals and drinks. And before someone chimes in with the inevitable I-thought-you-don't-miss-the-money response, it's the principle.

    2. "I’m sorry but once a woman starts pulling money out of her pocket to early, she’s bound to attract a man that’s a user."

      I'm sorry, but once a man starts pulling money out of his pocket too early, he's bound to attract a woman that's a user.

      It goes both ways, sugar. You are a sexist, pig.

        1. That was satirical. It's like when feminists call men "losers" because we won't pay for dates. From what I have found, they can dish it out, but they cannot take it.

          My track record speaks for itself. I support equal rights and no gender-defined roles. I am more of a feminist than most women.

  21. If you had to come out of your pocket countless times over the years for dates that never materialize into anything you would change your tune. It’s not fiscally responsible for men to pay all of the time. Men paid for everything in the past becomes women barely worked or when they did it was a minimal job. If I ask of course I will pay, but at least chip in sometimes. And don’t give me that mess about household stuff. If a woman cooks I always wash the dishes. I haven’t let my mother wash my clothes since I was an 18yr old college freshman and I am 29 now. Furthermore, I’m neater than most women so I wouldn’t want them cleaning up after me because I am probably cleaner than she is. My parents are still happily married (34yrs September) but they never taught to pay for all of the dates. If anything, my present always taught me not to date women who need to be taken care of.

    1. It is only fiscally irresponsible if he is trying to be a player. It incentivizes men to pick wisely and settle down sooner.

      Men want everything easy these days. Women have it much harder, this evens it out.

      1. "Men want everything easy these days. Women have it much harder, this evens it out."

        Men are being effected by the recession more than women. Women can get sex anytime they want, unlike men. Women can still play Mrs. Independent in their 20s, and play housewife in their 30s. More men kill themselves than women. Men do not have affirmative action. More women receive alimony than men. Most women marry up, while most men marry down.

        Yeah, women have it MUCH harder. LMMFAO!!! You sound like an early 20s female.

  22. On the first date I think it's really nice when a guy pays. I usually like to alternate. Guy pays first, I pay second, guy pays third etc etc.

    If after the first date I'm not really into it though – I insist on paying half. Pay for my meal because I'd really rather not talk to the guy again. I don't owe him anything then.

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