Home Featured Conflicts of Interest: Child Support – The Man’s Point of View

Conflicts of Interest: Child Support – The Man’s Point of View

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child support

Last week, Dr. J wrote a post on the New NYC Teen Pregnancy Prevention Ads. At some point during the day, a debate on the role of child support erupted in the comment section. In reading these comments, I realized very quickly that men and women have very different views on the role of child support, the fairness of child support (laws and calculations), and what child support does cover or should cover. Although this was an interesting topic, since I have no firsthand experience with child support, I solicited an open call on Twitter (@WisdomIsMisery) to see if any men or women would be willing to share their experience, views, opinions, and trials and tribulations with child support. Two writers, a man and a woman, volunteered. While I wanted their pieces to be original, I asked them to, at minimum, address four questions:

  • What do you think child support is “for?”
  • Is it fair?
  • What are some issues you face as a man/woman?
  • What, if anything, would you change about the process?

The Man’s Perspective on Child Support

(click here to read the woman’s viewpoint on child support)

I love my son.

It is important that this sentiment is clearly stated and understood from the very beginning; if you are a man and do not yet have a son, there are no words that can accurately describe the feeling in its entirety.  It’s like looking into a funhouse mirror that allows me to see into my own past, when I was innocent and untainted by the many hard lessons life has taught me thus far.

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My son’s mother (I refuse to use the term “baby mama”) and I are not together; the story of why is long and sordid enough for a column all its own, so I’ll spare you the details.  Suffice it to say that no relationship manifested, but she decided to have our child, whom we both love unconditionally.  It was made clear from the “I’m pregnant and I’m keeping it” conversation that we would not be together, but I would be active in my child’s life and I wanted 50/50 custody.  I attended doctor’s appointments, was there when her water broke, drove her to the hospital and, due to a cesarean, was the first parent to hold my child.  From there, things have gone spectacularly awry.

This leads me to the actual subject of this “opinion”:  child support.  As a progressive thinking male, I have a love/hate relationship with the institution.  While I do immensely support the notion that it is the responsibility of a man to take care of any and all children he sires, there are far too many issues with existing child support law for me to be, well, supportive of it.  The current laws do not account for many factors that can result in what any man would call at best a terrible inconvenience, and at worst, an absolute horror story.

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Most people know of at least one situation amongst their friends or family in which a man is paying child support.  Sometimes the system gets it right; the amount is fair and the child benefits properly from both the financial support and the regular presence of a man doing his best to take responsibility for bringing up his child.  These clear-cut instances are not the stuff of which a man’s nightmares are made of when he’s deciding whether or not he “likes it raw” with a partner.

No.

It’s the seedy underbelly, the worst case scenarios, the spirit-crushing vindictive nature of some women, combined with the random incompetence of the legal system that makes a brother wake up in a cold sweat with the voice of some ratchet echoing in his ears, endlessly dragging out his name like…

“BYRONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!”

“That ain’t even my NAME…”

For an extreme example, there is the story of Francisco Rodriguez, a Florida man who in 2007 found out he owed over $10,000 in back child support for a 15 year old daughter of whom he never knew; a monthly payment of $305 was established, putting an intense strain on his finances considering that he was now married with two daughters and a son from his wife’s previous marriage to care for; he even had to spend a night in jail over nonpayment. Standing in court with DNA results stating he was not the father – along with a signed affidavit from the girl’s mother, a former girlfriend of his circa 1990, asking that his child support responsibility be removed – Rodriguez was essentially told “tough luck, bruh”. There was a deadline to legally contest paternity, and because he had moved several times in the past few years, he never received the paperwork.

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Damn…DAMN Damn.

A bright light appeared at the end of the tunnel though, and the judge ordered a court-sanctioned DNA test.  Mr. Rodriguez of course showed up (more than likely EARLY) to get the situation rectified; the girl and her mother did NOT show up for the appointment to submit to the testing, and at the time of the article, it was unclear if she had yet complied.

Damn, DAMN, DAAAAAAAAAAAMN!!!!

Check out page two for more cautionary tales and the author’s personal plan on how he will address his child support obligations.

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Lifestyles

For me, these situations caricature the extreme difference between how men and women may view “child support.” From the male perspective, the institution MEANS well, but has the potential to fall well short of the intended goal of providing mandated financial assistance in the event that some sorry excuse for a man decides to shirk the responsibilities that come with being irresponsible about whom he decides to “repaint the interior of”.  I won’t seek to expound upon the female perspective, but let’s just say it’s rather telling that a woman wouldn’t even show up with her child to help absolve responsibility for the man whose life she financially ruined.  After all, the fiscal well-being of him, his wife, and children aren’t her responsibility, right?

In 2002, an Atlanta man named Carnell Smith took his case as far as the Supreme Court; after ten years of paying $375 a month in child support (that’s roughly $45,000 for the mathematically challenged), his [alleged?] daughter’s mother demanded an increase to around $1000 per month. Since DNA testing had become less expensive by that time, Smith decided to have one  done.  Lo and behold, he was NOT the father.

Cue the Maury Povich music and obligatory dance of exuberance.

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Unfortunately, the courts determined that because he hadn’t had the test done ten years earlier, he was still on the hook for that car-note sized child support payment.  The mother stated that since he wasn’t the father she no longer wanted his money, but the court order still stood.

…What?

Mr. Smith became a rights advocate, founding Citizens Against Paternity Fraud, and spearheaded the state of Georgia’s first paternity fraud legislation.

“Paternity fraud.” The fact that such a phrase even EXISTS can make a man wish that the FDA would fast-track approval of this male birth control injection that’s been practiced in India for the last few years. Just ask Frank Hatley, a 50 year old homeless man who in 2009 was released from jail after a YEAR due to failure to make child support payments on a child that was proved wasn’t his in 2000.  You read that correctly; eight years AFTER paternity was invalidated, he was jailed for a YEAR for back payments from the previous MILLENIUM.

Paternity fraud isn’t the only issue that the child support institution has; sometimes the way it’s calculated simply isn’t fair.  Imagine that your ex ended up with custody of your two children in a divorce; you’re ordered to pay $500 per month in child support, but you only make $26,000 annually (Editor’s Note: In 2010, the most recent census data available, the average American only made $26,364 annually).  You try to contest it and have the amount reduced, but you lose the case and are ordered to pay not only the $500 per month, but also $1000 for your ex’s attorney fees.  You’re unable to come up with the money, so the court has no choice but to find you in contempt and throw you in jail.  This exact scenario happens to men in the United States every single day without so much as an eyelash batted by a court judge, but it was important enough to make the newspaper in Charleston, South Carolina.  Why? Because in this rare instance, the individual thrown in jail just so happened to be a woman.

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I love my son.

With paternity test in hand and every intention of paying whatever child support the state mandates, I am prepared to walk into a courtroom, look the judge in the eye and say proudly that I want to split custody 50/50, pay the necessary mandates and have it in writing what days I’m to have my son as set by law.  I welcome the responsibility of caring for him, teaching him all that I’ve learned and raising him to be a better man than I or any that came before me.  Part of me prays that legislators will take a hard look at child support law so that stories resembling the ones I’ve discussed here become folklore and old wives’ (or husbands’) tales in the future; the other part of me prays that the male birth control injection is approved by the FDA in time for my son’s 14th birthday.

Kindest Regards.

About the Author: The writer of this content, Freon Phelps, is available at his email [email protected] for additional information or writing opportunities.

 

WIM SigNow we turn it over to you SBM: 1) What do you think child support is “for?” 2) Is child support fair? 3) What are some issues you face as a man/woman? 4) What, if anything, would you change about the process?

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Comment(62)

  1. As I wrote on the Woman's perspective, I will do the same here, thouh I cosign this 1000%. My story too is long and crazy that it could become a novel on itsown:

    1) What do you think child support is “for?”
    I was told as a Kid, Teen and as an Adult and Father myself that it is "support" for a Child(ren)……… apparently this is Subjective and Arbitrary since what Most of which consittutes as "support" USED to be Privivleges back In The Day, even as I was a Adolescent myself (extracirricular activities, vacations, etc). I understand Clothes, Food, and what not, but Gas , Rent, Utiliites would HAVE to be paid whether or not a Woman/Man had Kids or Not……..

    2) Is child support fair?
    Society has made it that Kids are "most Cared For" by Mothers by Default, courts are in the pocket of WOmen/Mothers like Israel is to the U.S.- Even when Israel/Women-Mothers are in the Wrong and Abusing the system (for Any Woman who deems ALL Women are Innocent and Victims Only are part of the problem as well)

    1. (CONT)

      3) What are some issues you face as a man/woman?
      As a Man, and a Young/Black one at that, stereotypes and bad reputations of my gender and race give off a Guilty until Proven Innocent stigma; it is also as if Many Refuse or Deny Accountability for THEIR ROLES in Dysfunctional Situations, and squarely place 100% Blame or Responsibility towards 1 Side- mainly Men (again, any Woman saying they had Zero Role in a bad relationship or situation is disengenuous, ijs)

      4) What, if anything, would you change about the process?
      Honestly, IDK; Mediation is mostly Useless as even Mediatiors don't do a damn thing when there are violations to agreements, and waiting on a court date takes weeks and/or Months. I DO KNOW that most go straight to the Courts rather than doing the Adult thing and Talking/Arguing it Out BEFOREHAND. We love to say Government is Too Intrusive ino ur lives yet We are Usain Bolting to go to Court for CS…….

    1. You can add Close them Up as well. There is such as thing as Gender Equality so Both Men and Women have equal Responsibilitym you know

  2. My father told me that child support is for men that don't take care of their kids. That child support rarely puts a real dent in any of the household expenses.

    1. Tell that to my brother who is left with only $400 after a $1200 pay check every 2 weeks. I know for a fact that I wouldn't be able to survive off of $800 a month for just myself. And after he is left with only $800 at the end of the month, he has to figure out how he can travel 58 miles each way to see his children.

  3. My take on it has always been you simply can’t put a dollar amount on a child. When my parents divorced child support was a mere formality, whatever was coming out my father’s check (and from my understanding Massachusetts is one of “good” states) it wasn’t enough to raise 5 children on. My mother was a homemaker for the better part of the marriage, she swiftly embarked on a new career. My father never fought on child support, he knew better.

    I have friends who are fighting tooth and nail on child support, they don’t like the concept behind it. They share horror stories of working 40-50 hrs a week only to see half of it in their account on Friday. The first contrast I draw is that my father was married 15 years, he knew the budget. My friends have no clue where their money is going. The simple solution I would think is better communication between mother and father, I know I’d probably feel better if I knew I was paying the light bill, or the clothes or half the rent. Or maybe it’s something I won’t understand until I have children. *Shrug life*

    1. I agree – a lot of men's opposition to child support is them simply not really knowing how much it costs to raise a child. Particularly men who only see their kids on weekends or every other. And even then, when they get their kid for the weekends, mom packed their clothes, toys, etc so dad doesn't get a true sense of the cost. I heard that daycare alone is hundreds of dollars a month. Sheesh.

      1. When I see my child on the weekend she is wearing the clothes that I bought her, she plays with the toys that I paid for.

      2. Ok. Let me paint this picture for you. Your a dad. Your checks are being garnished. Before child support you make $1200 per pay check, but after taxed, court ordered medical coverage, and child support you are left with only $400. You can barely afford to rent a room from a stranger. So you are giving the mom around $600 a month for child support, and paying $200 a month for insurance. The mom chooses to work only part time so she can be there for the kids when they get out of school. The mom only makes 1000 a month, but with your $600 shes up to $1600. She doesn't have to pay for medical to take the kids to the doctor because she has your insurance, as well as medi-cal through the state to cover the co payments that she has to pay from your insurance. The mom then gets low income housing and is only paying $200 in rent because she makes so little, and then to top it off she is given 500 a month for food stamps because her income is so low. How would you feel???? This scenario happens alot at least in california… I dont think guys dont understand how much it takes to raise a kid… I think its just a messed up situation!

  4. 1)It’s hard to talk about child support because people tend to talk about it from each side of the extreme, men talk about their homies who are getting robbed and women talk about their friends who can get 20 dollars out of their baby’s father.
    2)I think child support is fair. Babies don’t live off of I love you’s they need food, shelter and other things as well.
    3)I think the family courts need to update the child support laws to match the times we live in today. Child support cases should be looked at holistically. They should look at the fathers major bills (rent, car payment, school loans) into account when averaging out an amount. Every 2 -3 years the court should go over both parents finances.
    4)Joint custody should automatically be granted between each parent. Full custody should only be granted in cases where there is a history of abuse, physical, drug alcohol etc…

    1. 5)The child’s custodial parent should not be based on gender but, circumstance.
      6)Child support should only go up until 18 – 21 if your child is in some sort of school. (24 If their special needs)
      7)If the father feels the mother of the child is misappropriating funds, the court should have a secondary option where the father can choose a set of bills to physically pay each month for the child that would equal out to the child support payment… EX: he can pay for child care and insurances each month. At the end of each month a record of receipts can be sent to the case worker as evidence.

  5. Child support is a court determined amount that a non-custodial parent has to pay to financially assist the custodial parent with food, clothes, and shelter expenses. Once you have children and live in the household they are raised in, you know it is not cheap to raise children.

    I do not…repeat…do not agree with the child support system in its current state however. I feel it should be revamped. I hate hearing about men that are put into the lock-up system for child support. That is terrible and a waste of time. The person taking care of the children now have to explain that on top of not getting any money. A non-custodial parent should be forced to get any kind of job available to pay child support. There should be a reasonable deadline put on the parent not paying child support to get employed. If all else fails, there should be work programs set up with all companies that specifically allots a few slots for "child support jobs" (the company would receive credits of some kind maybe?). The child support paying parent will be forced to work one of these positions until they can do better. If not….last resort would be the lock-up simply because it is obvious you just do not care to be a responsible individual.
    I also think that DNA test should be mandatory to keep men from being victims of paternity fraud. For honest women, this should not be a battle. Miss me with all that ‘he should just trust me'…I am a woman, and I have seen it all. Swab the cheeks fellas….

    1. I agree wholeheartedly with the DNA tests!

      I mean, right now, you don't really need anything formal to get it done. I know men personally who I believe should have gotten tests immediately, but they have not done it. No, they aren't married to these woman AND in some situations weren't even in relationships when the baby was conceived or born. I don't know if it is naivete or if it is ego, but I do know it is stupid.

      1. For some reason, I think some men blindly trust all women. I do not think they understand that some women can be just as promiscuous, dishonest and conniving as some brother can be. Better safe than sorry.

        1. I've heard stories of men who did'nt know the baby was;nt theirs signed the birth certificate and once the relationship ended got a DNA test found out the baby was'nt their and still ahd to pay child supprt. I don't know how often that happens but is a DNA test the last and final say in wether support shoudl be granted or not.

          I personally think that once a a child suport case is brought to the court, the case should'nt continue until a DNA test is taken. If the man is not the father the case should be thrown out.

        2. See. I blame the men for this. Do your homework. Why not go do a simple test that will confirm something so important? This is literally your life.

          Stop leaving the most important parts in your life up to women and courts. Take matters into your own hands. If you raise and financially support a child that later turns out to not have your DNA….YOU are at fault.

        3. I agree Beef bacon.. the only time I let it slide is if teh person was married and you kind of assume your S.o. is'nt cheating. Other than that on and off gf, hook ups etc.. get the test asap

  6. I am divorced and my exhub and I share two children.

    In the good old state of Maryland, child support is determined using a worksheet…so you see exactly how it's calculated. The worksheet uses percentages to determine who is owed child support. The idea is that the child should have access to the same financial comforts in both homes. For example, at the time our our divorce, my exhub made more money than me. He owed me child support for the percentage of his income that exceeded mine.

    I think this is RIDICULOUS…so I waived it. Here's why…

    1. Neither parent should be penalized for making more money. In our case, we have joint custody of our children…7 days, then we switch. We BOTH have home and vehicles that accomodate them. We BOTH buy food and clothes to take of them when we have them. We spend the same amount of time with them. Considering that, I couldn't rationalize why he'd owe me money. We split all their bills (before/after care, activities), split major purchases (big christmas gifts, shoes, coats), he carries them on his insurance and I pay the co-pays. And after all that, according to the state, he still owed me almost $200 a month. I was like, naw…I can't take that. The reality is, we are NOT together. And its not his job or my job to maintain a certain lifestyle for our kids in another home. Thats ridiculous!!! Its our job as adults to make sure we bring in enough income to handle ALL our financial responsiblities…period.

      1. Child Support should be calculated based on where a child primarily lives and, if you are not the custodial parent, a percentage of that parents remaining bills and responsibilites (all bills should be brought to court, number of other children should be considered). If a parent is working under the table, its the other parents job to gather proof and present it to the court. My cousin's children's father worked out an agreement with a barber shop owner to keep his employment of the books. When he started breaking bad about paying the agreed upon amount, she went up to the shop while he was working and started taking PICTURES of him cutting hair, his license, the shop name…alladat!!!! LMBO!!!! Then, reported all this to the Child Support folks! Guess who's gotta pay up now?! HA!

        1. Where folks miss me is with the time they spend with the children. If they'd STOP just letting the other parent have full custody in most cases, it would DRASTICALLY reduce the amount they'd have to pay. But, instead of raising the child for a nice amount of time or fighing for partial custody, they'd rather pay…and then gripe about the money they have to pay. Smh…

        2. To be fair it isn't always someone LETTING the other parent have full custody. Many judges are old-fashioned and won't take full custody away from a mother unless there are extreme circumstances of her being unfit. ESPECIALLY when the child is younger than 5.

        3. True…which is why I added "or fighting for partial custody".

          I swear…I never understood women who would fight to NOT let a man raise his children half of the time. The fact that we push them out does NOT mean we have the right to refuse a man wanting to raise his children. Thats some arrogant, greedy, bitter mess right there. No respect for those chicks (unless the man is a danger to the children…which calls you into question again concerning why you'd have a child with someone who wasn't fit to raise them).

        4. @Cyn..I agree with you. While the baby shouldn’t be living in a shelter, while daddies in a huge house . I don’t think the father should have to make sure the child has the same exact things in the mother’s house that’s at his house (other than food and heat). I think the court should take into consideration where the extra income is coming from. If the father re-married or married his wife’s income shouldn’t be taken into consideration. It should strictly be based on what the father / mother makes.

          @Insom..True… the mother basically has to be living in the streets or on drugs really hard for some judges to take away custody

        5. I also need to mention that in NO court case concerning the network of people that I am close enough to here in Maryland, was a father denied his right to share custody with the Mom.

          1. My children (1 under 5)
          2. My homegirl – the father has the son, my girl has the daughter (son a teen, girl under 5)
          3. My homeboy – the father has the oldest, the other two come every weekend, he carries all the children on his insurance (all elem/middle school age at the time)
          4. My Cousin – 3 days out of every week, every other weekend (under 5)
          5. My Special Friend – 3 days out of every week, one weekend a month (was under 5)

          I'll stop there. But, I really do question how hard men are really pursuing joint custody of these children.

        6. Yea, every case is different. I was a family law atty in GA and NEVER in 3 years saw a man get joint or full custody. Very liberal visitation was only when Mother was in agreement. Other than that it was pretty much every other weekend the end.

          I have a friend who lives in Texas. He's a teacher, owns his home, pays an outrageous amount of child support every month and he can't get custody or even enforcement of the very LITTLE visitation he has.

          As I said in my comment on the other post. It is very hard to have a Judge/Courts dictate these situations fairly. AND each state is VARIES greatly.

        7. That's horrible. 🙁

          Yeah, I guess it does vary state-by-state…cause it doesn't seem that difficult for men in MD to get joint custody.

          As a matter of fact, in my cousin's case, the mother was trying to get weekends cause he's a pastor ("he won't be able to look after her while he's leading out")…even tried to get the church's income entered into the equation even though he takes no salary from the church. And the judge was like "naw" to all of that. Only his earnings from his employment and speaking engagements were considered…and the judge said his daughter could sit with someone at church while he was leading out.

        8. I hear of custodial parents going to jail for contempt of court for denying ordered visitation. People have to know their legal remedies.

        9. If everyone knew the law – they probably wouldn't have laid with the person in the first place LOL and let's not forget going to court = more money. Loss work for the day sitting in court, without an atty judge isn't taking you but so seriously, and if you get an atty that costs money. Plus every time there is an argument and people go running to the courts – that costs EVERYONE money.

        10. "If everyone knew the law – they probably wouldn't have laid with the person in the first place LOL"

          RIGHT!!!!!

          Money does add up, I'm sure. Sad for Dads who really DO fight to raise their children. But, I doubt if the percentage of those men outnumbers the ones that aren't fighting and just want to trip on the payment though…

        11. @Cyn it could just be the state your in. Your friends migth have lucked up. I do agree that some men don't push hard enough. But for the ones who are the court is'nt on their side. it's like the bad baby mothers get the good dads and the good baby mothers get thebad dads

        12. I agree Cyn. Going to court once is not fighting. Some people are in court once a year trying to make changes. The children do not have to necessarily be aware either. It is sad when people take such an apathetic view on something so important. All this creates is another child growing up feeling all mixed up.

      2. ^^^ This is what I wish Ohio's CSEA (Child Support Enfocement Agency) was operating as, maily how in the Blue Hell can a Payer of CS really "support" anybody, let alone a Child and even THINK about Custody or Visitation when He/She is living like they are in a Homeless Shelter???? How is that condusive to a Healthy Environment, or Reputational Light of a Parent overall- Mommy/Daddy I Live with is all Well and Good but Daddy/Mommy I Don't Stay with is/looks/Lives like a Bum????

  7. Child Support is not always a bad thing. They take out money directly from my account. and it was something we both decided was necessary (more me then her). My daughters mom and i don't even discuss money. Its a beautiful thing! It free's us up to actually focus on whats important, raising our daughter!

  8. I have no child as of yet, but when I do, I really hope I don't have to go through no child support payments because the mother of my child and myself could not suck it up and work on our indifferences. As a kid who got child support, I look back at it, why is there even a cap on how much you should pay for the child you created. You spend what you can and afford and thats it.

  9. Provided both parents WANT TO RAISE the child then child support should be negated. If a woman needs child support to feed, clothe, shelter, and support a child but cannot afford it, then she should not get child support when the father is able to provide all the child's needs. In that case he's paying "you're not financially stable so you're taking advantage of me" support. Also the amount that government places on child support is outlandish! I no case does it cost 1200 a month to take care of a child (Day care maybe depending on where you live). Bottom line You should be able to provide everything that the child needs. If you are unable to do so and the other parent is willing and able, you don't deserve child support OR custody!

    1. Wayne maybe where you live 1200 a month is a lot but not everywhere. Day care alone can range from about 900-1500 a month alone for infants, there's still clothes, food, utilities, rent, diapers, toys, gas, medicine, etc… But I do agree it's selfish to ask for someone else who is willing for money to raise your child.

  10. It's pretty hard to be objective on child support, because there are alot of brothers who work hard to take care of their child(ren) but because the mothers in the situation (trust me there are plenty) choose to be greedy and want and expect more then dudes get caught up. I mean if the man is giving you money every wk or 2 wks depending on his pay period for THE CHILD, and I mean a good amount not just 25.00, 50.00 here and there, why should she STILL have to go to court? He should not be responsible for your other bills in the household, nor any other children you may have. On the other hand if you do happen to go through the court system it prevents her from asking you for any additional, just as long as you don't use it as a crutch (not getting b-day or x-mas-if you celebrate it gifts for the child) "cuz she gettun' child support. That's when I find it unfaur.
    My recent post Top 8 Signs Your Hair Needs To Be Done

  11. As a bruh who pays child support, this topic is a dicey issue for me. On the one hand, no, I don’t mind paying because I know my oldest child needs things. On the other hand, I know for a facf that some of the money I paid in the past went to paying my daughter’s mothers car note. I can’t really trip (too much) because she had to get my daughter around.

    I’m probably also the rare man who took himself for child support. Before the “what the hell” looks get started, letexplain. I initiated the process because it was a way to ensure that their was a record of me paying. Things were said that let me know before my kid was born, if I didn’t, I’d have a serious headache on my hands. Even when I lost my job, and got another making wwwaaayyyy less, I never went to get it reduced, because I felt like my daughter needed what she was originally getting. It caused some static in my marriage, but I did what I felt I had too.

    Ultimately, as long as my child gets what she needs, that’s my main desire. Even though I can’t do more, I know I’m doing something.

    1. i totally agree and commend you for doing so, its sad though that too many brothers are becoming statistics. I wouldnt mind doing so because my child 9ren0 need to be provided for, but when she uses the money for other stuff, or you complain that you want more because you cant manage what you're getting then we have a problem.
      My recent post Top 8 Signs Your Hair Needs To Be Done

    2. How do you justify the actions of the woman in your mind? How are you not enraged by what she did to you? At the time of when she was pregnant, if she would have asked you to choose between getting an abortion or going through with the pregnancy, would you have chosen abortion?

      If so, wouldn't you say it's heinously evil for her to accept child support payments from you?

      Suppose the roles were reversed and she wanted an abortion but you wanted to be a father? Suppose she found the kindness in her heart to go through with the pregnancy on your behalf so that you could have a daughter that you love. Okay… suppose then you demanded her to pay child support to you for the rest of her life by penalty of law. Could you imagine doing that to another human being? She didn't want the child but your going to make her pay for YOUR independent decision to have one. Well… that's exactly what women do to men all the time. It's evil.

      1. It’s not about her, or me at this point. I don’t believe in abortion (my personal feelings) and neither did she, so it was NEVER an option…that I know of. I may feel like I get screwed, but is me getting screwed worse than my daughter not being provided for? He!! no! So I endure the BS for the kids benefit. I can say for all the hostility that we sometimes have for each other, she’s never kept me from my daughter, so I can’t be all the way like eff her.

  12. Can we talk about child support, a woman's right to abortion, and the male perspective on those implications?

    Scenario: A woman and a man have consensual sex and conceive a child together. There is no doubt about who the father is. This argument will be framed from the most popular position that women ought to have the right to choose abortion. There are four possible scenarios. Either the woman wants to abort the child and the man also wants to abort the child, the woman wants to abort the child and the man does not want to abort the child, the woman does not want to abort the child and the man does want to abort the child, or the woman does not want to abort the child and the man does not want to abort the child.

    The most important of these four cases are the two where the man and woman disagree. Let's look at those closely.

    Case 1: Woman does not want to abort but the man does.

    In this case, the woman is forcing the man to become a father, involuntarily. This is fundamentally not a "responsibility" issue. The woman holds all of the power. She is the one deciding to have the child. How can you possibly hold the man "responsible" when it's not even his decision, right?

    If the man were to force the woman to get an abortion involuntarily, we would accuse the man of killing her unborn child, right? For instance, if I were to kill a pregnant woman, I would be charged for murder of bother her and her baby. It is important to understand that, under no circumstance will a man's opinion be recognized by the courts in this regard.

    Case 2: Woman wants to abort but man does not

    In this case, the woman is effectively killing the man's child. If in the previous case, a forced abortion is killing a woman's unborn child, how then is a woman aborting their child not equally devastating to the man who wants nothing more than to be a father? But again, a man's opinion on this matter will not even be heard in the court of law.

    Conclusion:
    Forced child support is wrong 100% of the time when a man is forced, by a woman, to become a father. If a man and a woman agree to have a child together and then the man reneges on his responsibilities after the fact, then fine. I completely understand child support in this scenario. However, if a man would prefer a woman to abort their child and the woman forces him into accepting the role as a father, that is just pure evil.

    1. I get what you're saying, but I have to disagree. A lot of people feel abortion is wrong and that it is murder. So, if a woman accidentally gets pregnant and feels that she can't murder her unborn child, the guy who got her pregnant shouldn't be financially responsible simply because HE didn't want the child?No way… There is still a child here that needs to be taken care of. Regardless of how his FATHER, willing or unwilling, feels…HIS child still exists now. What are you going to tell the kid (if you even choose to see it)…oh, I'm sorry you're mama is on welfare or is working 2 jobs to take care of you all because I don't pay CS…and I don't pay CS because I told her to abort you anyway, I ain't paying for something I didn't want. A child is a person, not an object you accidentally put in your shopping cart and you get to the register and say oops, my bad, I didn't , mean to grab it, and then put it back.

      Bottom line is this… BOTH men and women need to realize that EVERYTIME you have sex, there's a chance that a pregnancy will occur. Be responsible, if that's a risk you aren't willing to take, then he needs to wear a condom and she needs to use some type of birth control.

  13. Ask a graduate student whenever we reference a article it has to be older than five years. In this article you referenced two extreme cases with are over five years old. I'm sorry that this has happened to you but even still couples still choose to condone in unprotected sex and I cannot feel sorry for them. After witnessing all my life a majority black neighborhood where babymama is the norm I can't feel sorry for a man who has gotten himself in this situation. Although their are bitter baby mamas the solution is to wrap it up.

  14. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I have heard that these days it is requird for a woman to have a paternity test after birth to be sure that the child she is taking home is hers. I happened by this after watching a story about a rare situation where a woman who had the genes of her own unborn twin inside her was facing legal trouble because her DNA kept coming up as a mismatch for the 3 children she had via natural birth. If this required DNA testing is true then perhaps men need to get in on this testing as well. Especially in the instances where guys have children with women they aren't in serious committed relationships with.

  15. I DON'T feel sorry for men in this situation, nor see their "side". The central issue is not that little ole check you write, but providing quality of life and opporunities for YOUR offspring. Men are supposed to PROVIDE for those he's responsible for. The CHILD is the main consideration, not YOU.

    If you don't have enough money, I suggest you get off the net and get that money right. If you think your child's mother is misusing the money, first, you picked her, second then directly pay for your child's education, food, field trips, extra activities, health insurance, portion of the rent/ mortgage, portion of the utiltites, clothes, books, etc. Not only that, if you want fairness, also supplement or match with your own effort, the vacation time and lost career opporunities that your child's mother has to deal with.

    First, all this starts with the people YOU chose to lay down with and being smart enough to ask for a paternity test if you are not married. I'd LOVE a guy to ask me for a paternity test so I can calmly place the results on the table in front of him, smile and quietly ask him what types of heauxs was he dealing with before me. Then stroll off smiling lol.

    1. It's basic biolgy Folks. The ultimate purpose for sex is PROCREATION, not recreation. Let's not get it twisted!

    Men actually have ULTIMATE control over whether or not they become parents BEFORE the issue of abortion is on the table by controlling their sperm via condoms, spermicide or reversible vasectomy. Men's reproductive options are must less invasive and easier/simple to accomplish then women's.

    As a woman, if I don't want to be pregnant, I control my eggs via birth control, insisting on a condom and if the condom fails/ breaks, etc, I have the morning after pill ready. $50 or 22 years of child rearing and support issues? No thanks.

    2. I've known a few women who've gotten "trapped" by the man and NO ONE talks about that. Instead woman are usually blamed for trapping the guy. I would say sneaking off the condom or condom sabotage, and all kinds of "accidently on purpose" sperm hijinks are trapping a woman. Especially if the woman doesn't believe in abortion.

    3. Many times, due to male ego, control issues etc, the man will talk the woman out of an abortion, make promises to be there and then proceed to act an ass after the real deal (aka reality and responsibility) strikes. Then that same guy is writing comments above about how their child's mother is nuts. She's likely gone crazy dealing with his BS.

    4. Child support squabbles are frankly another control issue. The man can't "see" how the money is spent, so the default assumption is the woman is mis-spending it. If y'all were married, you'd be kicking out quite a bit more money into that household.

    Here's a question: Is your child sheltered, educated, dressed appropriately, fed appriopriately, entertained, transported, healthy? Yes? Then quit griping over pennies and nickles. If the answer is no, then sue for primary custody, which is in the child's best interest with such a neglectful mother, and quit complaining. Truthfully, the average child support ($200) of the average guy's income ($26K) you folks are quoting is piddling. Who's getting all these cars, hair extensions and trips off that money? You guys need more people lol

    Furthermore, many times the guys complaining have MORE than ONE child, by MORE than ONE woman. I don't care if you married the second woman and started over, it doesn't negate the needs of your first child that's ALREADY HERE. Guess what, life isn't fair. If you can't support more than one child/ household comfortably, you don't have the moral right to start another family. Sounds immature and selfish to me…

    But let's be real. Most, not all, guys who complain about their child's mother or their child's treatment (aka I don't now where the child support is going) don't go for full custody because they actually don't want the FULL TIME responsibility of child rearing…which is expensive and time consuming. A decent mother is going to kick out just as much, if not more money, than your child support during the kid's childhood. And let's not tally lost wages, lost employment opportunity, a slowed social life and other sacrfices that come with being the full time parent. It's actually easier to write that check fellas.

  16. I have a question bout this child support stuff. Can a man be put on child support even though he hasn’t took the DNA test?
    Plus he married to the child mother

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