In the first article, I gave a short list of five things that prevent women from being asked on dates. In reality, the list was much longer but I didn’t want to ask you all to read a long post on a Friday. I told y’all I would post this back at the end of the June, but life got in the way so now I’m posting it.
The impetus for these posts is because of the newly coined term, “Date Zero Chicks.” It basically is representative of the faction of women who never get asked out on “dates.” That’s in quotation marks because a lot of people have no idea what a date is. I’ll address this quickly:
This is hanging out, chilling, or anything else that I would not consider a date:
Him: Hey, you want to hang out on Saturday?
Her: Sure, what do you want to do?
Him: I don’t know, I was thinking about heading out to Georgetown.
Her: Cool, I’m down.
They meet up, they decide to have a drinks on the Waterfront, stop at Serendipity for dessert and spend the rest of the time walking up and down M Street until they have to part ways.
That’s not a date, like at all. It’s a nice interaction and probably will lead to a date, but it’s not a date. They’re just hanging out.
This is a date:
Him: Hey, are you busy on Sunday?
Her: No, I don’t have any plans right now.
Him: Cool. Well actually, I was wondering if you’d like to go to Sax for brunch. It’s like a four hour ordeal with a Burlesque show and everything. I think you’ll enjoy it. After we can probably grab some drinks or if you’ve got to head home, that’s fine too.
Her: Oh that sounds cool, sure.
That’s a date. You see the amount of thought he put into that. He not only presented a plan, but he also took the time to consider something that she would like.
Some of you will understand that and others will not. I wish the both of you luck. Because for many of you, the first date will be something that will always fleet you. And while many people will wonder, “Why aren’t men asking women on first dates anymore?” I think the real question you want to ask is, “Why aren’t women being asked on dates anymore?”
Here’s a list of five more reasons why you’ll never make it on the first date:
You have a list of ridiculous demands from the onset – The men who do well on the dating scheme understand the importance of effective listening. They will listen to everything you say carefully that sometimes you will have forgotten things you said and they will remember. If they can start to assemble a list of demands that you have of them before you’ve even taken the time to ask them what they really want out of a relationship, they’ll stop before they even get started.
You talk about a bunch of stuff that doesn’t matter to men – There are times when women get to talking about degrees, mortgages and all types of crap that doesn’t much matter to men. Especially not at the onset of meeting one another. There’s only one important question that needs to be answered in the first few weeks of dating, “Do we have a good time together?” All that other stuff – the stats and facts can come later… like way later.
You’ve already established a well known list of rules, boundaries, and things that are off-limits – There are certain ways that women have a tendency to just start off telling you what the rules are and what they aren’t going to do. No man likes to go into a situation already knowing there’s an off limits list. He wants to be able to have a say in what that list is going to be. I imagine there are some men who will accept a woman who has already took the time to put together the rules of their relationship, but that guy is also a pushover.
Your reputation precedes you – A person’s past shouldn’t really preclude them from dating but that’s just not the world we live in. If you have to spend time trying to explain how your reputation is not an accurate representation of you, he’s going to have to do the same exact thing the entire time he’s with you. It sucks, I know. We should have been listening to everyone when they told us early on that perception is reality.
You don’t listen very well – In addition to knowing when to stop talking is also knowing how to listen. A lot of us, both men and women, tend to spend time thinking about our response before we actually listen to what the other person is saying. It’s easy to spot too. There have been times when I’ve laid out all the things I want in a woman – it’s a list of two things – and she missed it because she was already plotting her rebuttal. I knew at that very moment I would never go on a date with this woman.
Those are my last five. Again, you can read the original five, here.
I don’t have much else to say. I would say that everyone should just look at their circumstance and make decisions based on that circumstance. It’s not about telling women “be quiet” or “back in the kitchen.” And nobody is asking women to lower their standards; it’s merely a plea that you learn that presentation is quintessentially the key to everything. The things you say, do and how you come across to people matter.
Here’s the biggest secret, most men aren’t going to tell you when you violate any of the ten things that I’ve listed in the last two posts. They won’t utter a single word or bat an eyelash. They’ll simply excuse themselves from the table and walk away. That’s why it’s so critical that you take a moment and internalize the list.
Although I’m sure none of you have ever done anything like this before.
How long before this thread breaks out in an all out war of the sexes…lol! Seriously we are starting to make this dating thing way too complicated. Once again I say this is a clash of Traditional values/gender roles vs. Progressive/ 21st century reality. In the end do what works for you!
Cosign! It's okay to want to better yourself, that's fine. However, I do not want women to change themselves completely or use these as lures to get men but then revert to their old ways.
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But the post has nothing to do with that… It’s not a clash of the sexes. Some women get asked on dates everyday and they’re perfectly fine. Others don’t, like never or very rarely do they experience genuine interactions with men. Men don’t always communicate why they will or will not date a woman. So I did.
People should do what works for them, but if nothing’s working then maybe you need some help.
"People should do what works for them, but if nothing's working then maybe you need some help."
Thank you J!
I can dig it! But can we have a discussion on how ladies used to "give brothers something to go on" as far as dating? I remember in my youth how women knew how to keep a guy interested and satisfied, and not always with intercourse. There was also a feminine art to dating, things ladies had to do to keep a man coming back besides look good. I will acknowledge that men's general effort in dating has devolved to the "least common denominator" motif.
Ladies also used to be payed less for the same work(we still are but to a lesser extent), be shunned for wanting a career (we still are but to a lesser extent) and be raised to pop out babies/accept cheating/consider a pimp-slap for time to time "love". Hence we "needed" to keep a man for financial and social-economic purposes even more than for love. My point?
The 60's might be the "good 'ol days" for white people but for black people that was only the case to a certain extent that did not entail having the same civil rights. Whether this time you are referring to are the 90s, 80s, 70s or 60s… women have got more rights and more opportunities lately. As far as I know there is no correlation between the amount of "fatherless" girls who have no clue how to "keep a man" and the emancipation of women.
I think their should be a balance. The old idea of masculinity cannot be the foundation which dictates what is to be expected from a woman. This is the case because the old concept of feminity (that women are naturally soft and caring… therefor should be submissve to the strong and protective man) is not the same anymore.
Your masculinity doesn't need to be proven by a woman who feeds your ego or pratices an art. In the world we live in today teams do better when they work together. How many people work on friendship and partnership before starting a relationship?
Men of nowadays also are bombarded with the idea that the sex needs to be perfect, the money needs to right and the lady will be there forever.
Tact, patience, commitment, trust, romance, collective planning are all elements we miss in the sources our information comes from. I believe that if men point this out to eachother and women do that to that maybe we can come back to loving eachother.
For now this debate about how women used to be better at dating, without looking at the living conditions from "back then" seems pointless to me.
I love it
Imma have to agree with Lang on this one. Despite what people say.. men are still courting women. The rules are bending yes.. but nevertheless it's still happening.
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I don't think this post is suggesting that men are not courting women. It is addressing a specific subset of women that are not being courted by men consistently and the possible reasons behind such.
Now, I've had good serious relationships evolve from traditional dating as you've described and from hanging…shoot, my marriage evolved from hanging/spending unstructured time, LOL. So, I don't know that there's a sure way that things "must" progress (I don't think you're saying that, lol…ijs). For as long as you aren't compromising yourself and you're both having fun, I say go with the flow that's working.
"You’ve already established a well known list of rules, boundaries, and things that are off-limits"
Now, according to you, what's the balance here? Cause although I won't rattle off my list of boundaries out the gate, as they are approached, I do flash a warning light…"approaching boundary…back up", lol. Boundaries are fine for women and men until you're comfy removing them. But, you have to communicate them somehow…
I mean it's a balance. This part is a art, not science. I think the best way to describe it is the carrot and stick.
There's several women (and men) who start out with all these things they're NOT going to do. They spend very little time talking about what they WILL do. There's no equity. Everyone should have rules and guidelines they abide by because that's critical to knowing one's self worth. But at a certain point it's ridiculous. I'll give you an example that a lot of dudes talk about all the time.
"Yeah, don't talk to that girl man. 1) She said she's not ever calling you, you should call her. 2) She said that if you can't treat her better or the same way her father treats her, then she will not date you. And she's spoiled rotten bro. 3) She said she's not having sex until she's sure the relationship is headed toward marriage, which is cool, but just think about that. Overall, mostly all your decisions about that relationship are already made. She don't need you, she just need a placeholder. Some of those things y'all should decide together."
Now all three of those things could have been communicated better and two of them never needed to be communicated at all.
But it's not easy. Like I said, art not science.
Exactly. Tact is a lost art often excused under the guise of keeping it real! I don’t eat Applebee’s vs. I got a taste for my favorite local spot. Call me stop texting me vs. I’d like to hear your voice. When are you going to cook for me vs. I would really like for you to show me how to cook your famous mac and cheese.
Yes! Omg… I keep telling guys that the reason why I think we won't work out is tact. So many men try to "keep it real" by being abbrasive…
Ladies are becoming more and more guilty of that one also…no sense of diplomacy at all.
How does #3 imply that all the decisions are already made about the relationship?
Dr. J please clarify this for me. Are you saying that this is a bad thing when men don't ask women on "formal dates?"
I ask because of the impression you give of women not being asked on what you define as a formal "date."
I think so… because some men are inclined to do as little as possible to get as much as they can. That's all types of wrong. But really what I was trying to bring out is that some women say they're getting asked on dates but in reality they're being asked to grab drinks or come over and watch a movie and they equate that with dating. That's not a date. They should ask for more.
Brotherman…. You are so right
so, what's the perfect, tactful way to "ask for more"?
I can appreciate you J, keeping us guys on task, and I can accept that I can do more on my behalf. However I will not subscribe to the notion that all the ladies have to do for us (in dating) is look cute and provide company. Where is the work for the ladies since we live in the age where equality is the order of the day?
lol @ "a 4 hour ordeal" being a date…#nonFreudianSlip
I've read the first five, and now the new ones and none are pinpointing/describing me as a person that doesn't get asked out…interesting.
So the question is are you getting asked out?
"Some of you will understand that and others will not. I wish the both of you luck. Because for many of you, the first date will be something that will always fleet you. And while many people will wonder, “Why aren’t men asking women on first dates anymore?” I think the real question you"
was something missing? otherwise, valid points.
good catch. thanks!
Wow, here it I thought I knew it all. I’m running my mouth in our first convo about what I do, and ALL OF MY OH I DON’T DO’S LIST. HA HA. Smh after reading this article wow, thanks for letting me know I need to stay in my lane. I had to post this article on Google circle
Yes, And The SPIRIT Of The Woman Must Be Taken Into Account As Well! All Of This Would Make A Helluva Lot More Sense If More Of US Truly Understood WHY Masculine & Feminine Energies Move & Act As They Do! What Are They Seeking To Accomplish & WHY!!
See, The Feminine Spirit Doesn't Deal In Quantities! It Deals Only In QUALITY!!! While The Masculine Spirit Reaches 4 More & More, The Feminine Spirit Reaches 4 Better & Better! Masculine Energy Moves Up & Out (Like Fire & Air)! While Feminine Energy Moves Down & In (Like Water & Earth)! The Man Iz Mainly Concerned With Gettn Shit Done! While The Woman Is More Concerned With The WAY IN WHICH A Thing Gets Done! When These 2 Spirits Work Togetha, What Do You Get? …MO BETTA!!! lol (…Continued On Next Post)
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Like Dr J Alluded To, The Magic Is In The Balance! When One Has Matured To A Level Worthy Of Entering An Intimate Relationship, They Will Instinctively Begin To Apply What I Like To Call "The Magic Of Attractive Action!" This Means A Man Must Learn To Utilize Feminine Powers …IN A MASCULINE WAY! And A Woman Should Learn To Utilize Masculine Powers …IN A FEMININE WAY!!
I Could Go On But This Post Has Already A Bit Long Winded! lol If Anyone Is Interrested In Hearing More On This Subject, Here's A Cool Free Video Mini Course I Put Together For My People! http://theosarianreport.com/the-osarian-report-ho… Check It Out When You Geta Minute! But I Must WARN You, It Is RAW & UNCUT! Adult Language & Content!! Parental Discretion Is Advised! Hotep ~~Khenis
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simply my humble opinion but I also feel that some women don't get asked on dates is because maybe a guy wants to hang out with them without feeling the pressure of having to come out of his pockets for everything and simply just wanting to get to know her(I understand the chivalry aspect of it) I know, not dated, but know women who won't have it any other way, if a guy isn't taking her to 'X' and/or 'X' they're not wasting their time. Some guys aren't that imaginative to do dates without spending money.
Also some women have that vibe, that demeanor of "don't approach me"…like they're mad at the world and some guys either are intimidated or just don't wanna be bothered.
One more thing, is some women don't make themselves available, I'm not alluding to getting physical, they seem to have so much going on, or want to have so much going on guys also don't bother with them.
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This really answered our problem, many thanks!
Not sure if I agree with what is defined as a date. This puts a lot of pressure on the guy to make every moment planned with some level of entertainment value. Why can't a guy just call a girl to get together and let the day take them where it may? No pressure or expectation. I find some of the most enjoyable dates I've had are when we didn't know what we wanted to do and we went with the flow. Obviously it great to have an initial destination, but what you choose to do after that can be decided by you and who you are with.