When women debrief each other about their recent dates, one of the first questions that comes up is, “Did he pay?” Well, most men are still paying for dates, but wish women would pay sometimes too, according to a paper presented over the weekend at the American Sociological Association’s annual meeting in New York City.
The ritual of men taking out women dates back to the time when men earned more because most jobs were not accessible to women. By treating women, men were also showing their ability to provide for them in the future. But now that the percentage of men and women in the paid labor force is about equal — and 28% of women are making more money than men in households where both partners work — the study’s authors wanted to know if that shift in gender roles has contributed to women’s expectations about who pays the tab.
The study, which surveyed 17,607 unmarried, heterosexual men and women using a questionnaire posted on NBCNews.com, found:
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84% of men and 58% of women said that men paid for most dating expenses.
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39% of women hoped men would not ask them to contribute.
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44% of women were annoyed when men “expected” women to pay.
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44% of men said they would stop seeing women who never pay for dates.
Read more at [Time.com]
Have we reached a point where women should start paying for dates? Why or why not? At what point, (first date, second date, etc.) should a woman offer to pay? Fellas, would you be upset if a woman paid for the date?
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Here comes the objective feminine viewpoints in the comments thread! *cups hand to ear* I've said this once before: I am courting/wooing you for your heart/loyalty/devotion…not the cookie. If men are only jumping through hoops just to get some, then that's tantamount to a little enterprise called Prostitution! So ladies please stop implying that paying for dates etc is what is required for relations because if that's the case then there are some fish nets and heels with your name on them!
I've ALWAYS hated that sentiment that "Men are Always Paying for Sex via Food, Drinks, aka The Date Itself"; Ummmmm, I've probably Never got that memo. I can go see a movie, go out to eat, or go Skating/rock climbing/ go to the Park b Myself. It's called Me Time or Self-Reflective Activities, so I Ask a Lady/Ladies Out for Company or as a Romantic Date- NOT to get the Panties.
Such BS like what's been said essentially Endorses the current Sexist mindset that Men are "Owed the Booty", and Women ASSume Guys aren't Listening or Hearing what they are Saying when They/We are. Word for Word, Every Sentence.
Totally agree with you…you are courting with the correct intentions and I love it! Actually just talked about this same topic on my blog yesterday as well and it's not about this for that, it's about building and establishing a meaningful relationship with someone.
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"Have we reached a point where women should start paying for dates?"
We hit that point the second women started having careers that gave them disposable income.
"At what point, (first date, second date, etc.) should a woman offer to pay? "
I don't think there's a right answer to that. But I don't think she should ever assume the dude is paying for her unless he already said he was.
"Fellas, would you be upset if a woman paid for the date?"
Nope. But I don't make a big deal about paying because I'm not funny with my money. If she doesn't offer, then I take the lead. If she does offer, then I *might* let her.
But generally speaking, if I'm letting her kick it with me, she's in my world/frame. I'm not paying for HER meal. I'm buying 2 meals for MYSELF, and I'm letting her eat some of it. I'm not taking her to the movies, I'm buying two tickets for myself, and letting her come along since I have an extra ticket, etc. She isn't getting special treatment– I'd do the same if I was kicking it with some homeless person.
So from my perspective, the chick is a passive benefactor of my general generosity. The only thing I'd actually do especially *for* her is throw in the bone.
All Of This!!!!!!
+ 1
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"… I'm not paying for HER meal. I'm buying 2 meals for MYSELF, and I'm letting her eat some of it. I'm not taking her to the movies, I'm buying two tickets for myself, and letting her come along since I have an extra ticket" 12PB
…awesome
This ish right here my n****!!!! It took me getting a fiance, who later became my wife to understand this thinking. The only difference is, we were merging worlds so it wasn't me taking her out, or her taking me out. We were sharing each other, with each other, if that makes sense?? It was the beginning of the process of us growing toward becoming "one".
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Good points.
I would gladly welcome a woman paying sometimes. It is understood that the man will probably pay most of the time. However, I can date plenty of women who will sit back and never, ever pay. I think the woman that steps up and at least offers sets them apart from the typical. It shows that she is appreciative, fair and willing to be a true partner. Otherwise, it can come across with the look of a Free Loader or a Free Meal. I really don't know why this is such a big deal if you both respect and are feeling each other. Some seem to feel that one person should foot the bill for all events and outings.
An interesting way to look at at it. Good points.
I think the whole who’s paying narrative is more a result of men simply being tired of investing time and money in women who arent feeling them. Her paying at least gives some indication she’s as interested as he is and not just getting out the house and free food. Personally, I always go in expecting to pay even if she asks me out I’ll have cash or credit card on deck just in case.
@tristan, I agree with u homie 100%. But see most women never wanna pay that’s why they don’t take the initiative to ask us men out. It the ole “whoever asks..should pay” game that they run over & over! So a man like me recognizes the game that’s being played and acts accordingly. The crazy thing is I actually have a high success rate with women I date. Either we both pay for dates or she’s just simply a “sex only” buddy! # the single mans life lol
The single mans life is great, if one is so inclined.
Women don't ask because typically a man that doesn't ask isn't interested enough. Period, we don't even think about who's paying because we can always suggest something free or low budget if we really wanted to.
This is exactly why I only like going out on dates with men I really like. Dating is expensive and I'm not even trying to rack up on the obligations.
I have no prob paying here or there or going dutch. I'm all for being progressive. Now I would love for him to set the tone and pay for the first meal because unfortunately I still wrestle with some old fashion ideals, however, I would definitely pay for the next one, cook him dinner, somehow take initiative to let him know I appreciate him and heck I'm into him.
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@payne, I wish more women shared your viewpoint…but sadly they don’t! Ehh..that’s life I suppose lol
they are hiding boo! lol
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they are hiding boo! lol
My recent post You were meant for me and I was meant for you: The importance of compatibility
I am a woman and I expect my date to pay for the first meal then I will offer to pay for some of our subsequent meals or to make a meal. However, I would expect him to say, don’t worry babe I have got it even if I end up paying because to me that shows he is a man 🙂
I guess in my opinion, a man wants to feel appreciate just like I want to feel appreciated. I know we have some that take advantage of that, but i'm not even addressing those types. If he takes me out, pays and we have a great time and i'm still think about him. I want to show that I am interested as well and will cook or take him out to dinner the next time. I normally do not date ballers so i'm sure they probably do not have tons of extra cash just laying around. Asking me to pay for some dates, is pretty reasonable to me. Especially if I am feeling him and he's being honest with me regarding his intent.
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Exactly
I agree. I wish more women shared your viewpoint. It is all about fairness, Appreciation and sharing. This really goes a long way with most guys.
Hell women “should” start paying for dates! Anybody with common sense knows that dates aren’t free,so if a man can pay for a date so can a woman. Honestly if a woman hasn’t offered to treat by the 3rd date,I no longer wish to go out with her. Then I simply turn my intentions to quickly just having sex with her & sex only!! She goes into the “sex buddy ” column!
You get negative thumbs down but this philosophy is reasonable. Considering that most of the women I date have full time jobs, I expect a little breaking of bread occasionally to offset the dents I'm making. Call it investment or whatever you want but if all she's got to do is show up then I'll head to greener pastures where reciprocity is evident.
This is fair..
I have no problems picking up the tab every once in awhile after HE has paid for a few dates, actually I prefer it because it helps me to make a better asessment on how much I really like him, if I do it without any hesitation or afterthought it's a good sign; — if i do it from a feeling some sense of obligation/I don't want him to think I owe him something/or he feels I am using him (basically I am thinking too much behind it) it's not a good sign.
The man usually pays for the first date because he asks her out. As a woman if you aren’t able to pay for a date, I believe you shouldn’t be dating. I don’t have a problem chipping in but should I have to go half on every date we go on…. NO. Men want women to cook, clean, suck and chuck whenever and you complaining about paying on a date. Of course I don’t encourage women to use men for a free meal. I also encourage women to at least tip on the first date. But honestly men usually ask women on the first date, you have all the power to plan a cost efficient or even free first date.
@smilez, I hear ya lady but this isn’t just about the “1st date”, this is about dates in general. The first date men pay because we’re being generous/courteous,maybe the second date too. But after that a woman knows if she’s interested in seeing a man again and therefore should offer to take a man out the next time,if a workings n can invest time and money into dating,so should a working woman! And like u said…if a man can’t afford to date then don’t….same goes for women! We’re all adults lol
I’m just saying as a woman I shouldn’t have to feel like every time me and my man (or person of interest) go on a date, I have to pull out my card. Heck if were splitting the bill every time we go out are we even dating? It’s like when you move in with your bf or gf. There’s a difference between moving in because you are taking the next step, and moving in just because you need a room mate to split the bills with. Same thing with dating I don’t mind paying because I don’t mind sharing the cost for us to have a good time if I’m interested in you and you’re interested in me and were trying to move to the next level. But if you’re expecting me to go half on every date during the courting process just because you’ve been played for a meal before or because you feel you shouldn’t pay before you lock it down then, that’s a no go.
Also I am an advocate of Groupon and Living social dates as well as free summer dates. Even if the man won’t allow me to pay I always leave the tip. This isn’t coming from someone looking for a free meal or who has a problem paying.
@smilez, baby,honey bun,pudding I totally agree with your outlook on dating…and I applaud u lady. But I think u misunderstood the topic. It’s not saying that us men want women to pay for first dates,or split the bill with us “everytime” we date, it’s saying that women should start paying for dates in general. And I agree. I’m in that 44% lol.
No I agree that at some point women should start paying. I think my comments are geared towards the questions at the end of the post, the “When should she start paying” part. I know some men in that 44% who wish women would start paying probably wish they could date without "paying" for the woman period.
I think you are missing her point because I totally understand it and feel the same way. A lot of men nowadays want to have the benefit of saying they are dating someone, when in actually because they are always going dutch or alternating paying, the woman just thinks its a friendship thing. That is generally how I operate. Because I do the same with my female friends.
I just think guys have it too easy nowadays but to their detriment because women are okay with this type of behavior. At what point is it clear that you are the man in the relationship? If this is how it is starting, the man with the mindset: if she don't chip in, I don't know about this chick anymore, how about reading her other actions, there will be plenty to judge by.
The person that asks pays for the date is bs imo. I will just get tickets or something like that but I don't want a man to come to expect me to do that all the time. Then again I would see him as more friend, less date.
The funny thing is that I don't have this issue with foreign men. European, African, Carribbean, Spanish, Middle Eastern, they will look at you like you lost your mind when you offer to pay. We just want a man that isn't looking to get over or save his last 30 bucks. If that's what you are looking to do, go to get coffee or something, that can still be a date.
"The man usually pays for the first date because he asks her out." There is the big gaping hole. If you want to go off the "the person that asks pays" thing then that is circumvented by the simple fact that many women don't even ask and therefore don't have to pay. Guys realistically can't ask you to do the cooking, cleaning, etc outside of a relationship. Yet we are still expected to pay outside of a relationship.
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@animate, absolutely true lol!! But u know many women don’t wanna deal with that truth and therefore will start to resort to those weak old excuses,”a man is supposed to ask a woman out” “I’ll pay after the 8th or 9th time” “I’d pay if the guy was my man” lol. Dun heard em all lol
I feel like dating is an investment. I’m not dating a man who can’t do for me what I can do for myself. I don’t expect a lot, I probably won’t pay for the first date (the meal) but I usually pay for the tip, parking and offer to pay for dessert. But come on I shouldn’t have to go half with you on everything while we date. I don’t mind going half or paying sometimes. Example if we’ve been out 10 time I’ve probably paid or went half on 4 maybe 5 dates (usually the guys I date won’t let me pay if I’ve already paid or chipped in last time).
“I feel like dating is an investment”
Sadly, it is.
“I’m not dating a man who can’t do for me what I can do for myself. I don’t expect a lot”
Sure, I cherry picked 2 sentences from an otherwise reasonable comment, but these two sentences seem to contradict each other. If I go on the assumption that this site features comments from semi-to professional, well-read/ educated black women, (reasonable assumption) then what is it that you can’t do for yourself?
I come across this statement a lot, and I find that I need clarification in the context of our current generation.
“I’m not dating a man who can’t do for me what I can do for myself. I don’t expect a lot”
This normally refers to a woman wanting a man who can meet her on equal ground. If I can go out to dinner at applebee's when I am by myself, I expect you to be able to take me to applebee's and above. I do not look for a man that can pay MY bills because I can pay them myself, however, he needs to at least pay his bills without hitting me up. IMHO. But i'm wrong A LOT.
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"he needs to at least pay his bills without hitting me up"
….lemme hold about about 30$???? no???
well explained. Totally reasonable.
🙂
and i got you next pay boo!
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@smilez, then u lady are on top of your game! U are doing what’s lot of women don’t or don’t want to do. I agree with everything u have said. Men also feel the same way “why continue to date a chick that can’t do for me,what I can do for myself” but instead of writing those less than par women completely off,we at least will see if we can sleep with the woman lol. But again the topic isn’t about “1st dates”..it’s about dates in general!
Many men have said that a woman asking him out emasculates him. Also,my brother also admitted that if his lady pulled out the cc to pay he would feel like a woman….
My solution: ask women out AFTER you had a couple of time out with her and your friends. I didn't expect my lady to cook and clean for me? That's what adults do.
If a female never offers past a couple of dates talk to her about it before another date. Say,that you believe in this and that and if she says no…dump her simple cheap ass.
A big part of this is how much "disposable income" a man has. Most men who are making really good money ie close to 6 figures plus have no problems spending on a woman simply because they can.
This is typically an issue for those who don't have the disposable income to pay a lot for costly dates.
I've calculated how much it costs to take a woman (me included) on a fairly nice and long activity filled date, and it can be costly. My ex would go the "extra mile" and bring flowers and some little gift on the first date.
I believe for most men, it's "the thought that counts." I agree with the study to a degree that many men would highly appreciate and find it very considerate of the woman to at the very least offer to pay. It would definitely score the woman mad cool points in his book, even if he had no intentions on her paying.
@bree, whoa lady ur waaaay off. Lots of men in general have a problem dealing with a chick that never pays or never offers…even the 6figure man. Just because men have disposable income doesn’t mean that we always want to spend it on a woman. It actually says a lot about a woman if she can’t pay for a date…she’s broke,selfish, or both. More than likely its both . All men deal with this issue lady not just the ones with more disposable income lol
I have been reading through many posts and as men and we as women have reached a new low. This current ideal in relationships has defiled the roles that women and men are supposed to fulfill in order for relationships to be happy, healthy and long lasting. The women are acting like men and men are acting like women. When did the roles change? When did God's message change? If you are looking to play the field and only looking for a good time in the sack this is not for you. If you are dating to get married this message is for you. Are men not supposed to be the bread winner? The head of the household? The king? The woman the Queen and help mate? There things women can do that men can't. There are things men can do that women can't. Why are there so many people on this post pretending that isn't the case? This ideal is why the divorce rate is so high. Why families are broken and why so many or OUR children are/will be dying mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically. Why may women are on Snapped and wives with knives. Why so many men on Maury Povich, paternity test Tuesdays, the strip clubs and cheap hotels with hoes. Why do we fear our purposes in a relationship so much we change what God said? Many consider these ideal to be old fashioned, however, when the new blueprint crumbles at the foundation, its time to get back to what did work.
I completely disagree that men would stop seeing a woman who never paid. 44% is a whole lot, like only a little less than half. Reality is most men are pretty simple and visual. . Every man has played the fool for some woman/women at one time or another, and many still do for various reasons. Yes there are men who would stop seeing a woman who never paid or never offered to pay for a date, however, I would say thats only about 25% at the most. Bottom line, If a woman looks good enough to that man and she lets him hit and she puts it down in the bedroom, she can pretty much get whatever she wants.
@bree, nah ur off again lady, true there are some fools out here..lots of men are fools. But even a good looking woman with great sex won’t keep a man spending his money. Pretty soon that pretty lady becomes old because the man is used to looking at her and the same goes for her sex. After a while that woman becomes just another expense. Why do u think so many rich men always ate seen with different chicks?? Looks and good sex can be found in lots of women,ask Hugh Hefner lol
This poll asked would men stop seeing a woman if she never paid for any dates. I asked 2 men at my job who are pretty intelligent men. They both said no that 1 thing would not make them stop seeing the woman if they really liked her.
One guy did tell me that he cut one woman off moreso because of her attitude of expectation. He said she told him from the door that she never paid for dates and that it was a requirement of him. That he didn't like. But if a woman keeps her mouth shut and doesn't say a word and is her regular kind sweet self most of men I know will not cut a woman off. They may ask her to pay or go half at some point and depending on her response they will go from there. But I honestly don't know any man that will cut a woman off that doesn't pay or offer to pay for the first few dates. As I previously stated, I can see and understand a man with not much money doing that moreso because he needs the woman to pay her own way.
FYI – I know this is outside of the context of the subject, but from what I have heard and seen, after people are in a relationship and/or get married, when they go out, the man Almost Always pays. (like practically every single time). I know people will say its different because your in a relationship or married, but personally I would Never let my man and/or husband pay every single time we went out, especially if it was pretty often. Imo thats money taken out of our building fund. You can defintely get more, and your money can go a whole lot further when you split costs. Not to mention it's only fair if the woman is working as well.
@bree, now this point I agree with lol….finally!
I wish a man would ask me to pay. I would walk out of there so fast with the check on the table. I don't pay for dates and I don't date men that expect me to pay. Some of you women get me with this progressive and equality talk. Please learn to use the advantages we have as women. All double standards aren't bad.
At least you acknowledge that it is a double standard. And we know you aren't looking to "fix" it. Just don't complain about double standards that don't go in your favor.
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"Just don't complain about double standards that don't go in your favor." This right here is Gospel!
Double Standards work both ways.
No interested man (worth much) would “ask” you to pay. Men are suggesting that you offer on a 1 to 10 ratio. It’s a matter of gauging interest in the context of our current generation. In contrast, these same men, (me included) would love a traditional man/ women dating paradigm. (I’d happily pay for everything) However, we are bombarded with the mixed signals of “i-n-d-e-p-e-n-d-e-n-t” ( Lil Boosie or Destiny’s Child(whichever versions)). The point is, that if the independent woman is who’s ruling now, then she has got to show interest the same way that we do and that might be offering to pulling out the ‘ol Visa 1 out of every 10 times.
Reasonable?
@Ghost – Very reasonable if that's the type of woman you are dealing with on dates. I don't walk around shouting the "independent" mantra or wear it as a badge of honor. Nothing special about paying your own bills. That's what you are supposed to do as an adult. My stance on not paying is just my preference. I haven't noticed it to be a problem with the men I date.
@Animate – No complaints here. I get in where I fit in!!
you seem reasonable, it's just the prefix, "I wish a man would…" comes off like it's againts the law. Great convo starter though.
Shhhh…between us, I'm all for it, I just don't want it to be a law.
@nowomanshouldbebroke, what advantages do women have in dating?? Lol I hope ur not referring to the “v” in between your legs?? Last time I checked there’s more women in society than men,especially more single women than single men,so do women really have an advantage?? And if you are that dramatic over paying for a date,most men would be glad to have u walk out on them lol. We don’t have to deal with u anymore lol. I just hope u are telling the men u date,your viewpoint on dating before they have to witness your dramatic moment lol smh. #ideal “sex only” chick
Obviously there's an advantage or else people wouldn't declare it unfair. Not sure why you are bring up s#x. I never insinuated that at all. I have no need to bring it up beforehand because I am able to tell which men are paying and which ones are not. It's one of those "advantages" I have as a woman.
@nowomanshouldbebroke, so if a man pays for the first few dates,ur telling me that u are able to tell whether or not he’ll want u to pay for the next one??…or in the near future? Please quench my curiosity …explain? Are u psychic (advantage)? Lol what’s the next numbers for lotto’s powerball then lol.
yikes! I think that's the entitlement thing that sometimes guys talk about. I guess I don't see why not pay sometimes? I can kick it with some double standards, (no problem cooking and cleaning, but I bet you will do all manual labor in this house). But what's wrong with making a guy who you are interested in feel appreciated?
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I really think it's about preference and having the free will to do as you please. Could there be some entitlement there? Sure, I won't deny that. Until I stop getting dates or start being forced to pay, my preferences won't change anytime soon.
I have no problem trying to make a man feel appreciated however I feel I can make him feel appreciated in other ways. I don't feel I have to pay for a date in order to do that.
ahhhhhh, light bulb!
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Cosign Payne
That's the best response I have heard Payne. I definitely don't mind paying on date #1, 2, or 3 if I am feeling you and interested, then I am going to go hard, put the full court press on, and court you. In my experiences, if you court a woman the right way, when she makes that committment to you, whatever you want will be given to you..lol
The thing is, a brother wants to feel appreciated. If we go out to dinner, I have no issues with paying because #1 I am hungry and #2 I just want the company of a beautiful woman. Over time though, we want to know that our hardwork of courting you is not going in vain and is appreciated.
Funny how men gauge a woman's interest based on her willingness to pay for a date and women guage men's interest based off his willingess to pay for dates and court. No wonder dating is so hard these days!! Smh…big Ball of Confusion.
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bellatrice who u tellin….smdh
I agree with you, especially while I'm getting to know the guy. Now after we know each other for a while and have been out on several dates, I do not mind paying. Plus, if my dad can pay for my meal then the guy I'm dating should be able to as well
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I think that it is fair to split or go dutch after awhile. BUT I do agree that many of us dudes want a housewife at stage 1. Also,I think women know that sex is riskier when just bf and gf,so….
You can't expect a man to always pay. Women are making money now. Men need no to take advantage of a female who has a good heart. All of the women I have been with are caring and looked out for me. Making sure I was straight..handling business,so I agree.
As with many things in my life I approach this with a "expect nothing, but be grateful for anything" type of attitude….well up to a certain point I suppose.
I never expect a woman to pay for a date, but it definitely doesn't go unnoticed when she offers and it definitely doesn't go unnoticed when she carries herself with a sense of entitlement that she should never have to. (the latter is a pet peeve of mine)
I once went out on a date with a guy that asked me to the movies and when we got up to the window, he told the ticket person "one please" and looked back at me and said, "you've got your own ticket, right?" I was shocked because he asked me out, and I think that was our first "date" but I went ahead and paid for it. I was dumbfounded that he picked me up from my house, drove there, waited in line, and didn't mention paying until we got up to the window.
Years later I dated another guy and he had been paying for the dates. So I asked him if he wanted to go out, his choice, and I'd pay for both of us. He RAN. We never had that date.
Bottom line is that I don't mind paying, going Dutch or anything. I don't want anyone to feel that I'm taking advantage of them and I don't want them taking advantage of me. But some people are hard to read. Each person you go on a date with is different. Whatever you do, despite you trying to be polite and considerate, they can take it as an insult. The real thing is trying to find a level-headded person that'll accept you being considerate but also wont take advantage of you.
@k, I agree 100%
I concur!
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you're so right. its sometimes hard to read if a offering to pay will turn the guy off or night. i once dated a guy and when i suggested a date and offered to treat him this time around he made up some lame excuse to not go on the date. whatever.
LOL I'm sorry ma,but fool didn't even tell you that it was dutch? SMDH I am cryin yo. LIke I said above,some dudes don't want a mannish woman,but raise hell when they offer to pay or some shit.
Of course women should pay for dates. And men should have the right to ask their dates to pay. Everyone should just be ready to live with the consequences of their actions, that's all. If you make a woman pay on a first date, chances are you won't be getting a second one. But that's fair, because you already knew that right? If a woman never pays for a date no matter how many times you go on one, chances are you won't be calling her again right? But that's fair, because she already knew that too. Well then, what's the argument here? DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU. Women are not a homogeneous group, neither are men. We can't force everyone to be the same just to make our lives easier. Stop applying generalized rules to the dating world and things won't be so complicated.
This.
….but then, what would we blog and comment about???
Touché
"Stop applying generalized rules to the dating world and things won't be so complicated." This is the truth and you told it like it T-I-Is!
I do think its about time women started to step and pay their fair share. I don't know if its a women thing or just a black women thing. In my experiences white women had no problem paying their fair share of dates. For a while the only black women that paid for my meals was my mom and sister. What bothers me is your viewed less of a man when you don't pay for all the dates, yet we don't hold women to that standard when they don't cook, clean etc. Once I realized there will always be women that are prettier that won't expect the man to pay for every date, I dropped women who didn't want to pay for dates.
Move on bro. Black women are known to coddle their men and it looks sad. Go to whitemeat iz the best meat.org
I've never paid for a date – first, second, third or fourth…If I tried to pay (even on his birthday), I was rebuffed. I will offer to pay when dating someone long term, but I've just never actually had to, so if a man asked me to pay, it would probably turn me off or I would think his interest level in me is low, and write him off. It is what it is.
My recent post Christianity and the Black Church
Are we winning the courtship wars yet?
I agree with the 44% of men. I think "at some point" the woman should offer to pay…for something. Both parties are making an investment, and for me, it tells a lot about your character and your intentions.
I went on a date with a guy who chased me for about 3 months….only because I wasn't really feeling him. One day I decided to take him up on his offer and go to the movies with him (as a friend). I at least had to find out why (exactly) I didn't care for him, then this way, we can say we tried it, and it didn't work.
I meet him at the movie theater. He paid for the tickets. I said since he paid for the tickets, I will pay for the popcorn. He said I really didn't have to do that, but I said I don't mind since he bought the tickets, and for me, I was going out with a friend. We went to our seats first, to make sure we had good seating. He excused himself to the restroom, when he returned he had popcorn and drinks. I thought it was sweet….but he really didn't have to. But I know why he did it…..he wanted to let me know he thought of me more than just a friend.
My point. I really don't see a problem with paying (something) on dates. Which date (1, 2, 3, etc..) really depends on the person, place or situation.
There ya go ma. Exactly!! follow her ladies
oh man! so many errors of spelling. sorry. english is not my first language
I'll try not to beat a dead horse here, but this is why I've stopped"dating" completely. I'll spend time with a person to see what there interest or potential is, but why do you all make it that hard?
The 44% of men who wish women would pay sometimes are rightly justified to ask for that type of reciprocity. Just as women can ask that a man not only approach them, ask for their number, chat them up, ask them out, wine them, dine them and (even without the possibility of sex or a real relationship) expect men to expect nothing in return, men can demand that women chip in at some point. It's that same selfish entitlement that keeps a lot women losing in the game and I can see why.
I can recall a couple of times I went out over the past few years. I got burned a couple of times in trying to just hang out with a person, which is why I keep my meetings simple (i.e. drinks or coffee dates). I know all of these well-to-do sistas just rolled their eyes at me saying that, but that's not my problem. Surprising enough, I've had sistas who were enjoying the time just as I was and they insisted on paying. Of course, that's a nice gesture, but I would always contribute in some shape or form for the rest of the evening. Usually, I appreciate women that offered SOMETHING (i.e. pay for parking, drinks later, a tip for the meal) I always make sure my dates have a good time, so it doesn't usually matter, as long as she shows she's just as "invested" or even interested as I am. But guess what? There are still 56% of men that don't expect or want a woman to pay, so again ladies, it's a numbers game. Happy hunting.
LISTEN – women should never be paying to Date…NEVER. Now if we together – of course I am more than willing to pay for a date or anything else…but in the dating getting to know each other phase – naw I aint never paying. To me that's a red flag deal breaker. If I pay for a date – trust that will be our last date EVER!
@insomnia, well I’m guessing ur a woman. But anyways as it pertains to your comment if u will never pay for a date during the “get to know u” process, then why should a man. U are not his woman so u aren’t entitled to him paying for u on those dates. And honestly most men won’t have a problem not hearing from a woman who refuses to pay for dates,that’s a win for most men lol
LOL I totally agree with you. To each his own. I believe dating is about a man courting me – not the other way around. Call me old fashioned. I also think men should open doors, pump gas, etc…sure they don't HAVE to but if they want to be with – they HAVE to.
Luckily there are women who let their hair down, just want male company and don't require the world. They even pick up checks too and it isn't seen as an assault of my masculinity or a dampening of her femininity. I like women that think like that. The good thing about the arrangement that I mentioned is if we are both contributing to a mutual "cause" (i.e. having a nice evening of drinks and conversation) then no one should feel entitled or like they are getting beat. Simply put, we are both paying for a good time and owe each other nothing.
“women should never be paying to Date…NEVER” = law
“If I pay for a date – trust that will be our last date EVER!” = personal preference
Somewhere between your first and second statement should be some middle ground. No one should “ask” you to pay. However, how unreasonable is it to offer to pay (with a guy that you’re actually interested in)? 1 out of 10, 5 20; I don’t know; you can find your own ratio, but damn. Paying for the date doesn’t tell you anything about a man. Wife-beaters, cheats, criminals, mommas boys all pay for dates.
Let’s be honest, you won’t go lacking even if you keep such a staunch position but, wanting to pay for everything and it being a rule to do so are not the same thing. The result is the same because you’ll still get your parfait. But, the non-punk ass dude will keep score.
Personally, I’m all about paying but that ain’t the law and these chicks betta stop ackin like it is.
In my opinion there is no room for compromise on this topic. While we are dating – you are courting me – you should be paying for us to go out. Now I am totally open to not having expensive dates. That's also on you during the date phase…if you wanna take me for a picnic in the park once a week – that's fine too. I don't much care. But the man is dating me, the man is asking me out, the man is having to make the effort while we are courting and that includes paying. If a dude I was dating was on some – hey i wanna see you tonight but i can't really afford a date – i'd say come over and let me cook you dinner…no problem there but my answer WILL NEVER be – don't worry boo I got it. Now when we are "official" and I'm your girl – I'd pay for as many dates if not more than you – who cares at that point. But during courting – nah that's on you boo.
"Paying for the date doesn’t tell you anything about a man. Wife-beaters, cheats, criminals, mommas boys all pay for dates….Personally, I’m all about paying but that ain’t the law and these chicks betta stop ackin like it is. "
I've been saying THIS for years.
I have been reading through many posts and as men and we as women have reached a new low. This current ideal in relationships has defiled the roles that women and men are supposed to fulfill in order for relationships to be happy, healthy and long lasting. The women are acting like men and men are acting like women. When did the roles change? When did God's message change? If you are looking to play the field and only looking for a good time in the sack this is not for you. If you are dating to get married this message is for you. Are men not supposed to be the bread winner? The head of the household? The king? The woman the Queen and help mate? There things women can do that men can't. There are things men can do that women can't. Why are there so many people on this post pretending that isn't the case? This ideal is why the divorce rate is so high. Why families are broken and why so many or OUR children are/will be dying mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically. Why may women are on Snapped and wives with knives. Why so many men on Maury Povich, paternity test Tuesdays, the strip clubs and cheap hotels with hoes. Why do we fear our purposes in a relationship so much we change what God said? Many consider these ideal to be old fashioned, however, when the new blueprint crumbles at the foundation, its time to get back to what did work.
I understand where the men are coming from. Let’s looking at the courting period between 1-3 months (before you guys make it official) If you guys go out every Friday for 3 months, movies, dinner , bars, a museum, laser tag, (whatever) else you can find on Groupon. That’s 12 dates. Now if you’ve been on 12 dates and haven’t at least sincerely offered to pay for something then I can see a man being like sheesh what gives. Now there are men who won’t except if a woman offers (unless it a special occasion). I don’t mind planning something to surprise my boo ex: concert tickets, game tickets, movie tickets, groupon/ living social anything (that way he can’t deny my offer to pay).
MEN
Some Women don’t mind helping out but no women wants to feel like she’s taking her self out and your just along for the ride. Think of it like this let’s imagine instead of this being 12 dates it’s 12 chex sessions. And each session instead of letting you get all up in that cat, she tells you to sit in a chair and watch her play with herself with a toy. Now the first one or two times, it’s exciting even a little naughty. But once you hit about session 3 , it’s going to get played out and your going to want the real thing.
Basically do whatever works for you. It’s about balance no one wants to feel used.
Don't have too much to add outside of what's been said. My only thing is in the context of dating right now, technically your 1st date isn't a 1st date as in ya'll have never hung out before and you're investing time to "see what's up". Between social networking, dating sites, and hook-ups through friends, the 2 of you should know where each other stands on the "laws" of dating. I'm sure blind dates still happen for people that are a little old school. However, w/ the way dating works now, who's really going on dates w/ people they don't have already some type of interest in?
That being said, I never let a women pay when we start dating. I don't even think about it in terms of her feeling entitled or who asked out who. To be, it's just the nature of being an Alpha-male and gentleman. Now once we become an official couple, if she offers, that's fine.
My final comment is when guys are so adamant about women paying half or a portion, I lowkey think is it only a problem because you're dating above your means or outside of your income bracket? I mean if you don't normally go to STK or Ruth's Chris, but you wanna take shorty to impress her, is it really HER problem that you can't comfortably afford the date?
Love it. Thank you. That is what I speak into existence for myself an Alpha male. I need a King. No Fear.
And to your final comment. I also think men are dating to many women, those are the consequences of wanting them all…it will cost you. I think ALL women will agree, on a first date, if the man ask YOU out…yes, SHE IS EXPECTING THE MAN TO PAY. Chivalry is not dead!
Men, if your not sure about her, or wanting to feel her out, take her out for coffee or drinks. I would hate to sit through a dinner with someone who turns out to be jerk, wouldn't you?
As time passes, and the woman is into you…you will not have to ask her to pay for an outing. She will start to offer…. dating can be expensive, women just need to be more conscious of that.
"I lowkey think is it only a problem because you're dating above your means or outside of your income bracket? I mean if you don't normally go to STK or Ruth's Chris, but you wanna take shorty to impress her, is it really HER problem that you can't comfortably afford the date?"
I'm just glad a SBM said it… because Lord knows I sure was definitely thinking it.
1st dates/meetups shouldn't even include dinner in the first place, IMO it should be somewhere casual so you two can talk and see if you connect first, preferably drinks, once connection is made then you can have your 1st REAL DATE.
@girlsixx, honestly dudes don’t really do the fancy restaurant to impress a chick thing lol . If a dude takes a lady there more than likely he can comfortably afford it lol . Now the issue is when the show is on the other foot,when women are paying for the date , then comes the Applebee’s, t g I Fridays and such places lol. It’s rarely the men who date outside their financial realm lol
LOL @ some of these comments and SMH at the same time. Some of ya'll is making this dating thing way more complicated than it has to be. Honestly the men I date (ages 33-42) NEVER have a problem when it comes to paying they seem to have that old skool dating mentality (open car doors, close car door behind you, open doors, take you by the hand or waist when walking on rough surfaces), etc. some still paid even though I suggested we go out and do whatever.
Oh and "Dutch" is something I don't do, that makes no sense are we on a date or just homies meeting up for dinner? o_O. Either I'm paying OR He's Paying.. Simple as that
Ladies what is the real underlying reason you have such a problem paying for something for a date?
Not saying you should necessarily pay for the man on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd date or whatever and foot the bill for everything – dinner, movie, show whatever. But damn at least offer to pay the tip 🙂 ijs.
@bria, I honestly feel like a woman who puts up such a big fight about contributing to dating is more than likely broke!! Lets be honest,any adult who has the cash isn’t gonna raise a big fuss about paying for some damn dinner and a movie lol. All these other lame reasons women gave earlier are just excuses to cover the truth! Ijs
1.) I bring currency as if I will pay on every date.
2.) I expect the man to pay for the first date.
3.) A man doesn't LOSE points for preferring to split the bill in the early stages, but definitely wins EXTRA points if he insists on paying.
4.) I ALWAYS offer to pay, but I DEFINITELY enjoy not having to pay and holding onto my money. I like being treated. Simple as that.
5.) I HAVE gone a few dates with guys I was pretty sure I didn't have any interest in for the sake of going out and having a good time. It WASN'T for the sake of a free meal, but for the company of a man who was attracted to me. These never went very far, usually only that one date.
6.) If I INSIST upon paying, I am brushing you off.
7.) If I order the minimum at dinner, I am not really feeling you and trying to lighten your financial load in case you insist on paying.
8.) If I order the minimum at the bar, it's my way of avoiding being date-raped.
I cosign ALL this EXCEPT I've totally gone on a date for a free meal…when I was struggling PD – free dates were part of my budget. Like oh shit I'm about to be out of money and I don't get paid till Next Tuesday and it's Thursday – let me text ole boy so I can eat this weekend. At least I'm honest.
I never assume a man is paying. Unless it's already stated, I always do the courtesy "reach". Then, I start keeping a tally of how much I'm costing…cause I know how much my meal was, etc. Once we're in a bit of a dating stride, I start suggesting outings. And, if I invite…I intend to pay…making sure that the cost is comparable to what he's been treating me with. If he still insists on paying, then I buy a really nice thank you gift and card (or holiday gift, if its close).
I'm a giver…and a supporter by nature. So, I know what its like to give and hardly ever receive. Since I'm conscious of it, I hate for even a man I'm dating to not feel appreciated for his kindness.
@cynical, can we go out lady lol?? Grown woman u are!!
LOL. Thanks!
Kudos to you Cyn, you're truly one in a million!!!
If you’re in a committed relationship with a man then yeah it’s ok to go Dutch. Give your man a break sometimes and make him feel like you don’t always need him. A small gesture goes a long way. But if it’s like the first date or something and he asked you out, of course he should pay!
Is cant remember the last time I ran into a woman who felt like she shouldn’t have to pay for a date due to the fact that she’s a woman. In my world, most women will AT LEAST offer to pay, because they KNOW it’s only right. How does a man let himself be taken advantage of like that? She just fall back and show me her expectations like my mind is already made up on her? So women who don want to offer: Feel free to keep your purse closed, you’re only making it easier for us to find THE ONE.
Aaaaah….this issue right here.
Keep it simple and split the bill – this sense of entitlement that a lot of women have where they feel 'the man should pay' needs to be dropped in 2013. If you feel like treating them at some point down the line, then OK – I've always been a person where I like doing things for people when I'm drawn to do it rather than following some outdated unwritten rules where I should be obliged to do so.
And I also say never pay from day 1.
@mr2centsworthnothing: why do you keep trying to steer this conversation into hostile territory about black women and how our vaginas are not worth ANY value in dating anymore?? This is a light-hearted and funny conversation about dating, you get pretty ignorant with any woman that disagrees with you and try to go off on a “don’t think your vagina has any value” tangent. Why so angry??
Oh, and making rude comments with an “lol” does not make the *ish amusing. At all.
ANYWAYYYYYYSSSS: Kudos to the fellas and sisters ignoring this idiot and keeping it fun, especially Bree & NoWomenShouldBeBroke for giving good content! My thought is that the first few dates a man should pay, I’ve never had a conversation, issue or problem with this and I date consistently. Maybe the men that choose me to take out are confident, successful and very chill about the whole penny-pinching, wallet-watching behavior that a few men on this site are clearly displaying on this thread.
Old fashioned West Indian girl, so my Dad, brothers and uncles would have a fit if I wasn’t cooking for this man by the 5th date anyway OR paying for ANY dates!!! I think once we are more established a man should be treated every once in a while, but I’m certainly not dealing with anyone long-term who has financial issues about dating. Then just don’t date! I’m pretty creative so what I may not give in the form of financial money I make up in other ways like buying 2 tickets to an NBA game and sending him on a boys night out or cooking in heels or finding his favorite cologne and buying 2 bottles (one for home, one for office). In my experience and IMHO the only men worrying about “taking” from a woman are those who really have nothing to give in the first place. Deuces!!!!
@wanna-be-a-diva, u lady have serious issues. It’s funny how u are the only one who took offense to my words while real women responded with no issues at all. Where did I single out “black women”?? And I only brought up a woman’s vagina when trying to determine if a woman thought that was her “advantage” in dating. Do learn how to read and comprehend before trying to call someone out loser! Oh and by the way, my comments were lighthearted & non serious which is why I inserted those “lol’s” to let other readers know the tone in which I was commenting. But as I stated before u have some personal issues especially if u are the only one who was offended. Grow up and get your ish together. And I’m the angry one huh?? Lol….there’s always one of these chicks in every thread smh. Glad I revisited this post,otherwise some ignorant lady would’ve slid by without notice!!
It's not really about "who pays" as much as "reciprocity". It's fine to keep up a culture that the man takes the initiative and acts host – men and women alike enjoy this culture. Where I think it goes wrong is where this decent culture is abused. Cities where there is wealth concentrated or where men considerably outnumber women – often well to do cities where men flock to find work from afar – such as London – seduce even decent minded women to "take" but never "give". This is often not because men always expect sexual favours for their generosity, it's more that as decent men they like to do the right thing and entertain well. Men who do this once with a date and receive no "reciprocity" in the form of an invitation to meet without needing to incur huge expense in cities where women's expectations for luxury are high, should be attentive by qualifying the prospective companion before first date.
All the women that think we new age men are the ones that fucked up the dating game are wrong. If women stayed in there roles from back in the day we would want to take care of them like back in the day. U wanna vote, own property, be bosses, and have equal rights. Well u changed, not us we are changing now finally.
I think pitching in by paying for tip or parking or part of the bill does make a difference and should be done at some point of time at least after the first 10 dates or it does seem like the gurl is a free loader, its not about if a guy can afford or not as paying shows you do care abt the guy and the financials.
My opinion is a lil biased as the only gurl who never payed for anything or offered after more than 30 dates or so (the entire time- though she was crazy pretty, love life was'nt bad) was a black woman (i would like to believe that she was an exception), when every date ran at least 180 and up.
Well ended up making excuses not to meet her anymore…