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A Feminist Breakdown

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As we mentioned before, from time to time we like to highlight top comments or posts that garner additional discussion among our readers. SBM writer Tunde recently authored just such a post when he asked if a man can be a feminist. In response to Tunde’s question and to the theme of a number of other comments, @FeministaJones of FeministaJones.com provided the following response.

@FeminstaJones: I think the biggest issue in discussions of feminism are that the hyperbolic stereotypes of the White, wealthy, liberal female activists of the 1970s are applied to sistas who have also been rejected and pushed aside by those women. I think if we can move away from painting Black feminist women as new wave “bra burners” (bras were never burned, btw) who seek to destroy the “Black Man”, we might be able to have a more productive conversation. I also think we should contextualize the practical applications of feminism and how these applications have not only helped Black women, but also Black men.

My first exposure to feminism was via Salt-N-Pepa. I like that the author referenced Joan Morgan’s book on “hip hop feminism”, though I find her a bit campy and anecdotal lol. I appreciate her at least bringing the idea forward. I find bell hooks to be similarly anecdotal, but again, she has a very good way of capturing the love the Black women have for men coupled our desires to be respected and treated fairly within our homes and communities. I think, sometimes, taking the more anecdotal approach rather than a theoretical one can help with understanding.

Practical applications of feminism:

Voting- Women are now allowed to vote in elections and were KEY in President Obama’s election and re-election. Without feminism, women would not be able to cast their votes and he might not have won his post. In local elections, women turn out in support of local candidates who seem to care more about issues specific to their smaller communities. Candidates need those votes.

Contracts- As late as the late 1970s, women weren’t universally allowed to sign their own contracts (credit card agreements, loans, mortgages, utility bills, etc). Surely you can understand why a woman being able to have her own cell phone contract or internet bill is important? Why it is important for a woman to be able to sign her own lease for an apartment or apply for a car loan on her own? Or…cosign for yours if you’re in need of that help?

Healthcare– For men who have children with women to whom they are not married, it is important for women to have access to their own health coverage that can also cover their children. I read a report that most children born out of wedlock who have health insurance get it through their mothers. Without feminism, women wouldn’t be able to obtain the kind of work that provides that coverage, they wouldn’t be able to enter into the agreements without male cosignature, and your children might not have solid health insurance. Also, they need the coverage for the costs of birthing these children.

Economic– feminism helped women be able to open businesses and become active contributors to the economy. Women business owners provide great services that sometimes men overlook as being valuable: dining, aesthetic care, accounting, child care, event planning, retail, etc. Without feminism, women would be unable to get small business loans to open their businesses, they would not be able to provide these services that we all rely upon.

Banking– women were not allowed to have their own bank accounts and credit cards. How are we supposed to pay for the dates that we’re told we need to go dutch on or cover if we invite men? How are we to pay for gifts that make you smile? How can we order your favorite NFL season passes online or get season tickets for your favorite basketball games without having access to our own bank accounts/debit and credit cards?

Violence Protection– Brothers, you have mothers, sisters, aunts, and daughters who are susceptible to violence at any time. Feminism has fought for laws that protect women from violence, harassment, rape, etc. If you’re pro-woman, you would support legislation that keeps us safe when we walk down the streets so that we can come back home to you safely. How would you feel if your daughter’s husband slapped her and she cried to you? Well not even 30 years ago, he could do that and it would be acceptable as long as he didn’t punch her. And now? It’s still hard as hell to get support for that. I suppose you could take it into your own hands, but wouldn’t you feel better knowing there are laws that can punish such a man for hurting the women you love?

All of these, and MANY more progressive acts that benefit all of us, were made possible by the feminism movement and the efforts of women of all races. Black women have our own narrative and we face struggle being Black and being women. It’s been difficult to watch some brothers advocate for fair treatment of Black people but then mistreat the women in their lives. If you feel feminism is a threat to your manhood or standing as a man, I hate to tell you but…you’re incorrect.

These seem like noble goals and accomplishments that both sexes benefit from, so why is it that men and women, especially women who self-identify as feminist, often find themselves in constant conflict with one another?

Comment(70)

  1. There are a lot of people that wish to maintain the status quo (even if they don't realize it, they do), and feel threatened that their position of power/privilege will diminish with the elevation of women.

  2. I appreciate this list of all the feminist movement brought us. But come on! The things on this list are not the problem. Men aren't upset because women are allowed to vote & form contracts!

    I won't talk more than that about what makes men upset (b/c i'm not a man). BUT, I will say that I get upset when some women highjack feminist lingo & ideology whenever they want to push back against a man trying to *be a man* in their life. They assert their independence whenever they disagree with a decision he's made for himself or their life (if they're married). But, when he's doing what they want – they're all for him being alpha strong and manly. Ladies, you can't have it both ways!

    When it comes to their families, most men want to lead, protect and provide. Once you find a man who you trust to do those things for you—> you have to let him do it! You can't threaten to quit the team everytime things don't go your way. Of course it's supremely important to pick a man that loves & respects you enough to listen and care when your hurt/upset. And, thanks to women's rights, you can take care of yourself until the right guy comes along.

    However, I really believe that when you do find a man & marry —-> you're going to have to let him be a man, or he's going to eventually resent you for not letting him.
    My recent post Married Life, Gutter Fights: Can you change a man?

    1. I think you are really off course on this response. I am not sure if you actually remember the original post, but she wrote this because of many people's incorrect assumptions about feminism. I can see you too fall in with this line of thinking. The women you speak of who "hijack feminist lingo and ideology" are probably not actually feminists at all.

      My problem is when people like you take an assumption and paint an entire movement with that brush just because you've met SOME women who are like that. Also, if you don't think the things on this list are still problems, then I am not sure we live on the same planet.

      1. "The women you speak of who "hijack feminist lingo and ideology" are probably not actually feminists at all."

        That's why I said they're hijacking. They're taking language that means one thing (independence & feminism), and using it to mean another (control and dominance). I wasn't talking about the author of this post when I said "some women". She obviously has a good handle on the fem movement. Obviously women like her are *not* the problem. Instead, the problem is when women warp pieces of the feminist movement ideology to control men trying to act out their roles in society. They give feminism a bad name.

        The problem I had with the authors post was that I feel like she's not acknowledging that women are at least partially at fault for the bad blood men have towards feminism. At least some of the misunderstanding surrounding the issue can be laid at the feet of "some women" who use their independence as a weapon —> and claim to be key members of the feminist movement.

        I agree with her last line, men are incorrect if they think feminism = anti-manhood. BUT, I also think that just as many women need to be educated on the matter too.

        I really think you misunderstood me.
        My recent post Proverbs 31: A Life Worth Living?

        1. Or maybe the men who have "bad blood" towards feminism can go out and research it for themselves instead of making baseless assumptions?? That is an inspiring thought. So are black people at fault for the "bad blood" and assumptions that white america has regarding the origins of the black panthers or could these same white people go in and actually research the history of it to negate all the negative stereotypes?

          No, I understood you perfectly. You are captain of the save our men troops even though honestly, there is really no saving to be done. You have taken a stance to side with the poor men who feel that feminism is somehow diminishing them. Good for you.

          It is like respectability politics for feminism. smh

        2. Of course men should research the issue for themselves. So should women. I'm just saying that the reason there is bad blood isn't "baseless".

          About your Black Panther analogy—->If there were a bunch of people black people acting crazy, believing they were Black Panthers and telling white people they were too. Then I don't think it's unreasonable for those white people to have some negative ideas about the BP movement. I still think those white people (as well as the black people touting the BPP) are incorrect. BUT, if I was going to attempt to address the problem I would correct BOTH parties, not just one.

          About your second (terribly offensive, but OK O.o) paragraph—–> I'm not that captian. I just think the black family needs black men *&* women. Consequently, I'm taking a stance on what I think is best for us all. Feminism doesn't diminish men, but misunderstandings about it by BOTH men & women really is a problem. To address that problem, I think we have to stop polarizing ourselves from men (there are no sides) and accept that we all could have used some of the correction the author of this post was doling out.
          My recent post Proverbs 31: A Life Worth Living?

        3. You are really on that feminism respectability politics thing. Please remember that all black women do not fit in your heterosexual storyline. Not every black woman will want a man. Not every black woman will marry a man. Not every black woman wants a husband or kids, contrary to what all the black blogs say. Sh**, this even goes for the straight women too.

          You are working an angle of feminism that comes from a heteronormative perspective, but please believe that some of the women who helped mold feminist ideals (especially in the black community) are not heterosexual at all.

        4. 1)I agree with Amicus on about 95% of everything she said (from a heteronormative perspective)
          2)It only takes a few bad apples to spoil the bunch. With any movement, if you have people who are uniformed, who don’t represent the movement in a positive light, of course there will be negative feed back. It’s just like how a lot of Christians get a bad name because of the ones who don’t practice what they preach. Trust I’m sure there are a good amount of women who wave the feminist flag who haven’t done their research. If your going to represent something to the fullest you should know and understand every aspect of it, and not just go around and copy what stereotype you see on TV.
          3)I think there are just a lot of closed minded uninformed people on both sides of the feminism movement, and that’s where all of the friction is coming from.

        5. @ Amicus

          I just want to say you handled that discussion very well and stated your views clearly without having to take any offensive jabs on the opinion of the other particpant in your discussion. Kudos. That is all.

        6. Oh give me a fucking break. Please let us not act like the conversations on this site are always the model of propriety or decorum.

          Y'all slay me. You want polite when you want it, but I have seen many (including some of the writers) go in when they want to. Lets be real.

        7. And also, most of the people commenting have no real knowledge of feminism and they don't care to know. I should have just let the foolishness flow like I did in the last article. Be honest with yourself, you are happy to live with the concept of prejudices regarding feminism and you really don't want to know any better. Cool. Ignorance is bliss.

        8. I'm now officially curious about you Southerngyrl. I've read enough of your commentary over time to conclude that you are clearly an intelligent woman. However, your comments tend to be infused with antagonism and fueled by a seemingly bind allegiance for women regardless of the topic at hand. Is it possible for you to take a dispassionate and impartial approach to these discussions? No dis or shade, just really curious about what your deal is.

          My recent post If Women Need To Know Just Ask (Pt 2): 10 Questions Women Ask Men

        9. Quite a few of the male and some female commenters on this site have an anti-feminist mindset. Their views are usually misguided and based on their own ignorance and biases. They blame feminism for everything. Most of them are regulars (at least for the past 5-6 months or so). The number of commenters on here who say the most asinine, chauvinistic, stereotypical, sexist bullshit on here are great, yet my commentary sparks your curiosity?

          I have a very low tolerance for ignorance and bs, which is why I should have sat this post out, but lets be real, a lot of what feeds commenters (men and women) on this site is the clique system. This happens on all websites and blogs. It is normal, but annoying as hell. Amicus' comments are nonsensical. It means absolutely nothing and adds little to nothing to the overall conversation. I understand how this works. She gets kudos because she sided with the general male view on this site for the most part. But honestly, she completely missed the ball. That is it. I am always up for intelligent discourse, but certain subjects on this site generally bring out the ignorance. Feminism is one of those such subjects.

          I comment on many posts, not just the ones about women or feminism, but if you think it is blind allegiance, you are surely entitled to your opinion, even though it is misguided. You think it is blind allegiance because you don't believe the same and it is contrary to the mindset you have, but trust, I have read some ridiculous comments from you on this site.

          As for my deal? This is the internet. You don't need to know my "deal". It doesn't even matter.

        10. Actually, Im very familiar with your commentary(stemming from many months back). I found your commentary interesting this time around because there is a reoccurring theme with you, which is to immediately become defensive and antagonistic with anyone who calls into question the role women have played in anything negatively affecting society. As eloquently illustrated in your response to me, everyone who doesn't agree with you is misguided nonsensical and ignorant. Yet, you don't seem to see there is something odd about this?

          I personally didn't think Amicus was siding with men. I think she was actually taking an objective dispassionate approach to the conversation. And that is what the commenters on here(including myself) were commending her for. **That, and the fact that she rightly called Ms FeministaJones out on her obvious b.s., but I digress.**

          Honestly, unbiased, dispassionate discourse is what conversations such as these need more of to be solution driven, but apparently you disagree. Otherwise, her "siding with the men'" as you say wouldn't have brought out such a reaction from you.
          Yet somehow, we're to ignore this, your dismissive tone and vigor to promptly dispatch any one who fixes their mouth to call women to task on these issues, and instead believe that you don't have an unyielding allegiance to your fellow womenfolk? -_-
          I'm perplexed.

          My recent post If Women Need To Know Just Ask (Pt 2): 10 Questions Women Ask Men

        11. I said you and other commenters were misguided and ignorant because on a few issues, that is exactly what reigns supreme here.

          I think to you, I am antagonistic because I don't bow to the party line like a lot of women do. This goes for the comment section and in life. I don't feel the need to always make a joke with my response or make light of the situation. A lot of women do this and that works for them. That is not me.

          There has been no unbiased discourse on feminism on this site. Not one. Sorry. It probably won't ever happen either. A lot of is just the typical ignorance, and by ignorance, I mean uneducated on the topic and unwilling to independently research it further. These are oftentimes the people who always have a view on it. That is ignorant.

          My tone is dismissive because I am dismissing it. I don't think most people talking about it are that educated about it and they don't want to be, so why should I take them seriously.

          You have a lot of things to say considering you have a commenter (who i usually ignore) further down who claims that women want to be harassed and that he has a "whipping boy attitude" toward black women. Yet, you're focusing in on my feminist agenda. Now what were you saying about blind allegiance? Maybe you can be perplexed about that instead.

          I think the commenter I was speaking with on the last article was smart not to come back to this one. Absolutely ridiculous.

        12. @Southerngyrl

          The burden of proof is on the people that represent their position.

          People are too busy with the business of living to do deep research about truth.

          Present your position better & be consistent with your position in word & deed, and we will not have the feminist confusion.

          Good day

        13. @SouthernGyrl_

          I am glad you brought that up.

          Gay people need to have a separate agenda. They have enough issues, despite the fact that some tend to be black & female, with all those labels are consider by feminists to be minorities & oppressed groups.

          Gay people advocating for straight women (& maybe men) is problematic.

        14. "The problem I had with the authors post was that I feel like she's not acknowledging that women are at least partially at fault for the bad blood men have towards feminism"

          SOME women are responsible for that and I've always maintained that in the thousands of other words I've written on the subject.

          All I'm asking if that when someone, like me, comes to you and says "This is my understanding and manifestation of feminism and the ways in which it applies to my life and those of the people with whom I commune and build" that you don't suck your teeth and brush off my (our) truth as presented to you because SOME women left a bad taste in your mouth.

          As I continue to say, think of how brothers feel when some women paint all of you as worthless, shiftless, ain't shit n-words? Many of you HATE that and become very defensive, asserting that not all Black men are like whatever the women are claiming. Surely you get tired of people assuming you're going to be a failure in school, never achieve anything career wise, leave your children, and commit several crimes, doing at least one bid in jail….because you identify as a Black man…? Yes?

          Because that's how the world generally sees Black American men.

          And yet, some of us are able to see you as individuals and respect your presentation of self, without lumping you into a group just because you call yourself a "Black Man".

          Is it so hard, really and truly, to simply just accept what is being said by those of us who do NOT associate with ball-breaking, man-hating radical feminists?

          The truth is that the word carries weight. There are women who espouse feminist rhetoric, but shun the label, because they are fully aware of the volatile response just to the word FEMINIST.

          I experienced this when I changed my name from "PurplePeace79" to "FeministaJones" and changed nothing about my tweets or message. Everything men were cosigning before, and giving me praise for, suddenly because problematic. The message never changed; the name did. And a lot of people have noticed it, people who have been down with me from day one. They're completely amazed by how one word can send people into such frenzied headspace.

          I think, the responsibility is then on those who react so strongly to the word/label and refuse to focus on what people like me are actually saying (especially when you say "I agree with ABC AND XYZ and I want women to be free and equal, etc etc etc"

          Dude, that's feminism.

          Accept it lol

    2. @Amicus

      That was actually a great response. I see why guys resonate with those statements you made.

      Nothing to argue with.

  3. Comments

    1. I am not going to speak for white men & women, so I hope a few comment to clarify their position of white feminism & patriarchy, etc.

    2. If what Feminista said was 100% true & that all is what feminists were on, men mostly would not have a problem.

    3. The equality argument.

    I argue that black woman today mostly want a patriarchal structure , as long as black men are not in an authoritative position.

    Men don’t mind women being “equals”, but it comes at too high a price. Especially in dating & running a functional household in a racist society.

    Women in our lifetimes (2013-2100), want & are attracted to men who they perceive as better than them.

    More money, more in tune with feelings, guys who are in the company of pretty women, guys who have a great s*xual skills.

    So IMO, it is a zero sum game. As women make social gains (for example she makes $50,000 & has seen 5+ male partners), they still want a guy who makes more, and has a level of romantic/sexual experience to exceed them.

    And if guys are not outpacing women socially, sexually, financially, it is a huge reason why dating in black America is so problematic.

    (Black) Feminism ideology & the people who represent it (usually unattractive women & simpish mangina [black] men), are hiding behind noble feminist ideals, to get their own selfish agendas pushed through.

    For example men peddle feminist propaganda to get p*ssy, female favor.

    Women are just mad about not getting the men that they want & want an even playing field with other women.

    Questions

    What can black men do that black women can’t? (Black male privilege myth)

    How do women expect to deal with issues such rape (women) & molestation (children)?

    Because when invested men are present, that protection factor is there. That protection is undermined in a equality/matriarchal environment.

    And we already know sexual & street harassment is simply about women upset at the unattractive men who approach them.

    Not the fact that these men say & do “obscene” things.

    It is not about the spirit of feminism, because the spirit & nobility of feminist ideals is something I even want in my future household.

    It is about how it is applied in real world scenarios & put up against human nature, mainly the feminine imperative.

    It is not practical for all.

    Good day,

    1. "And we already know sexual & street harassment is simply about women upset at the unattractive men who approach them."

      This has to be one of the worst things I've ever read from you. As someone who has dealt with street harassment almost daily since I was 11 years old, I will assure you it is not just about unattractive men approaching.

      I've been followed down the street by very attractive men who felt that calling me "sexy bitch" and saying things like "Damn I wish that fat ass was on my face" was a respectful way to treat me. I've had men grab me and not let me go, to the point I've had to shove them off. I've had men literally follow me for blocks in their cars, and turn to cut off my pathway to walking. I've had men tell me I'm too sexy to be walking with my son alone and that they will become his daddy. I've had men hurl disgusting words at me simply because I've said "No thank you". My friends have had objects thrown at them, clothing tugged at, been spit on, etc.

      How dare you minimize the very painful experiences thousands of women deal with every day?

      What the hell is wrong with you and at what point in your life did you begin to hate/resent your own mother so much that you take it on women? What did she do to you? Or was it an aunt or other close femlae caregiver? Someone hurt you deeply and it pours out in every post. Your disgust for Black women dots every I and crosses every T.

    2. Adonis,

      Re: street harassment. It is a privilege to be able to walk in public space from point a to point b and be left the hell alone. Get unwanted attention daily for a year and see how you like it.

      1. @Furious Styles

        Unwanted attention or unwanted sexual attention from men.

        Cause if we are going to flip it, you basically talking about me being a male celebrity & unattractive women giving me unwanted attention.

        We’ll see when we cross that bridge.

        Usually black feminist equate street harassment with stop & frisk from white police officers, which is not the same, but I get the point.

        My simple challenge to women. If you are annoyed with men approaching you.

        Tell us to stop & show is how it is done ladies.

  4. "It is not about the spirit of feminism, because the spirit & nobility of feminist ideals is something I even want in my future household. It is about how it is applied in real world scenarios & put up against human nature, mainly the feminine imperative."

    This is said SO much better than I could have written it, but I totally agree.
    My recent post Proverbs 31: A Life Worth Living?

    1. Eh, i cringe at "feminine" and "masculine" as I think they are entirely too subjective to be universally applied, but I agree that practical application is important, which is why I wrote what I did. I think, sometimes, we get caught up in the rhetoric and academic ideology without considering how feminism plays out in our lives and within our families.

      The existence of the "Big Mama" archetype within our communities is a great place to start.

      1. @Feminista

        Masculine & feminine are great terms.

        But I find men & women who find it the most problematic are the men & women who are not the most attractive to the opposite sex.

  5. I don't think anyone in the comments of that post disagreed with the comment Feminista Jones made above.

    The issue many men have are with the more hardcore feminists (they go well beyond Feminista Jones' comment). For them, it's not about equality, it is about complete compliance. The comments that many of us made in the comment section were not "assumptions", they are what SOME card-carrying feminists believe. Which was why we were asking for definitions and asking exactly what type of feminism we were talking about, because many feminists believe in different things.

    1. +1

      There’s also the problem of some using that clinical definition in theory, but when you see them comment or see what they’re advocating in practice, it doesn’t even match what they originally defined feminism as, and when you call them on it, they will jump behind the definition and make it seem like you’re against feminism, when you’re really just against the BS they spout that actually doesn’t fall under the umbrella of feminism or equality. The truth is that some of these people are really out FOR THEMSELVES, and need to be dealt with as such.

      1. My question is, are fellow feminist chastising the radicals who are giving the movement a bad rap, or are they quietly sitting back allowing the 'imposters' to wreak havoc socially? From what I have seen around the internets, the loudest are also the most radical, and their supporters are just as rabid and antagonistic. But I have seldom come across any pushback from fellow feminists with more reasonable and functional agendas. Where are they and why aren't they shutting these faux pseudo 'feminists' down? #SeriousQuestion

        Mr. SoBo

        My recent post If Women Need To Know Just Ask (Pt 2): 10 Questions Women Ask Men

        1. That is the million dollar question, Mr SoBo. Truth be told, I understand that there are people like that in every movement, but that is no excuse to not address what's going on in THIS movement. People like that are a cancer in the body of any movement, and letting it run unchecked just because it claims to be a part of that body is negligent at best.

      2. Do you honestly know any woman/feminist that wants "complete compliance"? That is not a commenter on a blog you've read.

    2. Feminism has no type…it is to a woman what she makes it. We harp on women who want a dominating role in this feminist movement. Let me ask…why is one woman’s definition of feminism and her actions towards it affectong other women and men’s opinions. If one female defines her feminism as dominating…let her. As women we need to define our own feminism and men will always find the one they want to be with and embrace her idea of her feminism. We should all leave the radical feminist alone b/c she at least found what feminism means to her and she is living by her rules with her freedom and not concerned abour y’all. Night.

      1. Also if u say they are all over the internet, then that might be a good time to turn it off and read something else like a book to improve the mind.

  6. #2 is damaging enough by itself, but the lack of a corrective response from others who are in the movement when they are in the same room/ same conversation is what really undermines the movement itself.

    1. Maybe because of the racism within the movement that pushes women of color, particularly Black women, to the fringe…? And maybe, with support from our brothers, our voices could be louder and stronger and we could change the face and maybe even color of feminism?

    1. The bad apple comment wasn’t referring to all feminist (as individuals) being spoiled but to the movement it self receiving a bad light because of a few spoiled apples.

  7. “And we already know sexual & street harassment is simply about women upset at the unattractive men who approach them.”

    This has to be one of the worst things I’ve ever read from you. As someone who has dealt with street harassment almost daily since I was 11 years old, I will assure you it is not just about unattractive men approaching.

    I feel you up until your 13th birthday.

    And when I say “unattractive”, I am speaking for the men who are not attractive/sexy enough to get away with saying/doing obscene things.

    Let a negro like Prince or your local heartthrob, or the type of men you find wildly attractive (who in the past you have given him & will continue to give him a pass.) push up on you, and pulls his dyck out.

    I am not in the business of the exceptions. And I detest those who try to tap-dance on my intelligence.

    Attractive people have a bigger margin of error, and can get away with more, in this context, attractive men.

    I’ve been followed down the street by very attractive men who felt that calling me “sexy bitch” and saying things like “Damn I wish that fat ass was on my face” was a respectful way to treat me. I’ve had men grab me and not let me go, to the point I’ve had to shove them off. I’ve had men literally follow me for blocks in their cars, and turn to cut off my pathway to walking. I’ve had men tell me I’m too sexy to be walking with my son alone and that they will become his daddy. I’ve had men hurl disgusting words at me simply because I’ve said “No thank you”. My friends have had objects thrown at them, clothing tugged at, been spit on, etc.

    Which basically, you & your friends should have no problems romantically. Guys are giving you play. Are you making the most of it while you are still good-looking & f*ckable?

    That is my concern.

    Other than that, you need to learn how to protect yourself, align with (black) men in the vicinity who will protect you, and dish out serious consequences for coming at you sideways.

    How dare you minimize the very painful experiences thousands of women deal with every day?

    Because what you see as painful, men like myself see women who would do the same thing as welcoming.

    It is all in what you value.

    What the hell is wrong with you and at what point in your life did you begin to hate/resent your own mother so much that you take it on women?

    IDK When I get my lily white female therapist, I will ask her.

    What did she do to you? Or was it an aunt or other close femlae caregiver? Someone hurt you deeply and it pours out in every post. Your disgust for Black women dots every I and crosses every T.

    I own my baggage, and I have an indifferent and/or whipping boy attitude towards American Black Women.

    It is what it is.

    Good Day Feminista.

    And what you wrote to inspire his post, what a great post BTW.

    My opinions do not take away from that fact.

    1. "Let a negro like Prince or your local heartthrob, or the type of men you find wildly attractive (who in the past you have given him & will continue to give him a pass.) push up on you, and pulls his dyck out…Which basically, you & your friends should have no problems romantically. Guys are giving you play. Are you making the most of it while you are still good-looking & f*ckable?."

      question from the bleacher seats:

      what does that have to do with anything?

      i know this may be a shocker to you…but don't you think that not all women desire to be hit on when they're trying to live life?
      like, they may actually want to walk to work without trying to be fu**ed?
      they may actually want to be productive at work without a co-worker looking down their blouse?

      that's a crazy concept, aint it?

      this isn't about women saying "oh woe is me i can't find the man of my dreams", noone said that in this post, no one said that in the other post…at least that i can peep it

      this is about a fundamental level of respect that we owe each other as human beings, doc.

      if that fundamental right to "be" is an alien concept to you, then i have no idea how to respond to you.
      You say you own your baggage…i hope you do, because it's spilling onto others.

      i know your MO and you like to say outlandish sh** for attention….but you wildin' doc.

      1. @HHH

        question from the bleacher seats:

        what does that have to do with anything?

        Consistency. Which is not a woman forte.

        Full Detailed Context. Which women conveniently leave out.

        i know this may be a shocker to you…but don’t you think that not all women desire to be hit on when they’re trying to live life?

        IM observation, women don’t want to be hit on by unattractive men.

        That is way different than saying, I don’t want to be hit on by anybody.

        Or I don’t want any man being obscene upon first meeting.

        If that was what women were saying, we wouldn’t have a dispute. Doc.

        like, they may actually want to walk to work without trying to be fu**ed?

        By an unattractive man.

        they may actually want to be productive at work without a co-worker looking down their blouse?

        By the unattractive male co-workers.

        that’s a crazy concept, aint it?

        ……

        this isn’t about women saying “oh woe is me i can’t find the man of my dreams”, noone said that in this post, no one said that in the other post…at least that i can peep it

        I don’t pay attention to what women say, as much as I peep actions.

        Actions explain alot more to me than empty pious rhetoric.

        this is about a fundamental level of respect that we owe each other as human beings, doc.

        I live in the real world, doc, where power & social status (race plays into that) determines how you will be treated by others.

        Not in your fantasy world where everybody should get along & treat people well coming from some misguided moral compass.

        The World “We” Have Vs. The World “We” Want

        And “We” in this context means “You” and your moral fantasies.

        if that fundamental right to “be” is an alien concept to you, then i have no idea how to respond to you.

        Only good in spirit & in theory.

        You say you own your baggage…i hope you do, because it’s spilling onto others.

        Huh? W/E

        i know your MO and you like to say outlandish sh** for attention….but you wildin’ doc.

        *Chuckles*

        1. "IM observation, women don't want to be hit on by unattractive men. "

          what makes you think this isnt one of your fantasies?

          "I live in the real world, doc, where power & social status (race plays into that) determines how you will be treated by others."

          can you explain? give evidence? or is this just your particular reality, and not the reality of the majority of humanity? Or is it?

          "Not in your fantasy world where everybody should get along & treat people well coming from some misguided moral compass."

          what makes you think it's a moral compass? how do you know it's a fantasy world? because it's not your reality? did you read the VSB article? do you believe that since a black man wearing a hoodie can be shot, we can't work to change that? if we can work to change that why cant we work on not hollarin' at people that aren't interested?

          a lotta questions, aint it?

        2. “IM observation, women don’t want to be hit on by unattractive men. ”
          what makes you think this isnt one of your fantasies?

          Because I understand the sexual marketplace & how it works. And how women operate in it.

          White & Black American versions.

          This is coming from living in the real world, and then cross-referencing my observations with other great minds. Past & present.

          “I live in the real world, doc, where power & social status (race plays into that) determines how you will be treated by others.”

          can you explain? give evidence?

          Well, if you live in an alternate universe, then first I would love to hear what part of the world you live & how people & yourself get down. Then I can get to the root of your dissension.

          And if you are honest, I think you will end up inadvertently justifying my world-view.

          We’ll see.

          A great example is Me vs. a pretty young white woman vs. President Barack Obama

          And the public reaction if any of us were to go missing.

          If Barack Obama was kidnapped &/or missing.

          Economies would fluctuate.
          America would panic.
          The international community would see weakness in America.

          And the Secret Service & all of law enforcement would be looking for him.

          With a pretty young white girl goes missing. White men will for years search for her to the ends of the earth, and investigate until she is found dead or alive.

          If I go missing. Only my immediate circle would care. And since we have no current political ties & i am black & male. Not much public interest.

          I hope that helps

          —–

          Better yet, if you live in a part of the world where everybody is equal & everybody is treated the same, please give us the geographical coordinates.

          or is this just your particular reality, and not the reality of the majority of humanity? Or is it?

          @HHH

          You are trolling & being obtuse right now. Cook on.

          “Not in your fantasy world where everybody should get along & treat people well coming from some misguided moral compass.”

          what makes you think it’s a moral compass?

          Just an instinctive accurate guess.

          how do you know it’s a fantasy world?

          Because your view is not practical for any type of real-world success, monetary, sexual or social.

          because it’s not your reality?

          My reality aligns closer to the way the world really is

          did you read the VSB article?

          A while ago.

          do you believe that since a black man wearing a hoodie can be shot, we can’t work to change that?

          You change that by black people hurting non-black people financially.

          if we can work to change that why cant we work on not hollarin’ at people that aren’t interested?

          The truth is, women really don’t want the harassment to stop. They just want to complain about it. That is fake outrage.

          People who want to truly change things, put there money where there mouth is.

          a lotta questions, aint it?

          I just needed a time space to answer all of them.

          @HHH

          If you are going to be a super simp, make sure you are getting some monetary or vaginal benefits.

          Don’t annoy me just because I hurt your simp bones.

          Read up on some Game & female psychology, then talk to me about women & their bullsh*t sexual harassment outrage.

          Now, where was I, *Puts Headphones on*

        3. "Because I understand the sexual marketplace & how it works. And how women operate in it.

          White & Black American versions.

          This is coming from living in the real world, and then cross-referencing my observations with other great minds. Past & present."

          so you had co-signers?

          and…that's it?

          that's like saying you found 6 people in Kentucky to cosign 2+2=2…

          aiight doc. lol

          "Well, if you live in an alternate universe, then first I would love to hear what part of the world you live & how people & yourself get down. Then I can get to the root of your dissension."

          i dunno if i can do that.

          it's like a kid from Neptune trying to teach a Martian.

          "If I go missing. Only my immediate circle would care. And since we have no current political ties & i am black & male. Not much public interest.

          I hope that helps"

          kinda doesn't. while you may be correct that outside of your friends, family, and circle of influence, not many may initially care, if you look on http://www.missingkids.com/search i'm sure you'll find quite a few little white girls who no one is asking about.

          dareisay, there are quite a few white girls, that no one, friends or family, is looking for or caring about. but….that doesn't exist. right? lol

          "You are trolling & being obtuse right now. Cook on."

          i'm merely holding a mirror up to your exaggerations and outlandish statements…please continue to grill

          "Because your view is not practical for any type of real-world success, monetary, sexual or social."

          how did you come to this realisation that its not practical? maybe it's not practical for you due to the choices you've made in your life?

          wait, do you even know what my view is? lololol. slight hint, neither game or what you consider simp. lolol.

          "The truth is, women really don't want the harassment to stop. They just want to complain about it. That is fake outrage.

          People who want to truly change things, put there money where there mouth is."

          and how would black women be putting their money where their mouth is?

          "Don't annoy me just because I hurt your simp bones.

          Read up on some Game & female psychology, then talk to me about women & their bullsh*t sexual harassment outrage."

          how many women have to put out documentaries, how many website have to go up before you acknowledge this? now who's being obtuse. lol.

          and simp? SIMP? *lol*

          trust…this isn't a play for chicks. i get none, i never will. i got a more valuable prize i'm aiming for. That's a nice try though.
          Funny how…i put on the same show for you, that you put on for others, and i detect a tone of annoyance? don't like it doc?
          quite unfortunate.

          you have this online insistence of invalidating the humanity of the opposite gender, i'm merely interested in the backstory of why your choice. but, i'm sure time will tell. later rather than sooner.

        4. @HHH

          Yea, you are being obtuse, but it is so much fun though. I gotta see where this is going.

          “Because I understand the sexual marketplace & how it works. And how women operate in it.

          White & Black American versions.

          This is coming from living in the real world, and then cross-referencing my observations with other great minds. Past & present.”

          so you had co-signers?

          and…that’s it?

          that’s like saying you found 6 people in Kentucky to cosign 2+2=2…

          aiight doc. lol

          Co-Signers are important because you wanna make sure that your worldview holds up to the light. And my POV passes the light test.

          You won’t even really share your worldview, because you are on some bullsh*t. It is what it is.

          “Well, if you live in an alternate universe, then first I would love to hear what part of the world you live & how people & yourself get down. Then I can get to the root of your dissension.”

          i dunno if i can do that.

          it’s like a kid from Neptune trying to teach a Martian.

          Basically,

          “I am just trolling, I ain’t gonna give my coordinate, because that would prove my point.”

          Which is cool in the game. But let us call it what it is.

          “If I go missing. Only my immediate circle would care. And since we have no current political ties & i am black & male. Not much public interest.

          I hope that helps”

          kinda doesn’t. while you may be correct that outside of your friends, family, and circle of influence, not many may initially care, if you look on http://www.missingkids.com/search i’m sure you’ll find quite a few little white girls who no one is asking about.

          dareisay, there are quite a few white girls, that no one, friends or family, is looking for or caring about. but….that doesn’t exist. right? lol

          You just proved my point even further.

          One of the things they left out in the Trayvon Martin case was who is father was, meaning that he connections to people in high places.

          And so, although a person is young & white & female & missing (remember being cute helps) you also have to be in bed with the right people.

          And again, I am generalizing. And you continuing to be obtuse.

          Smart people do not get dumb overnight, unless they have an agenda, what exactly is yours?

          “You are trolling & being obtuse right now. Cook on.”

          i’m merely holding a mirror up to your exaggerations and outlandish statements…please continue to grill

          Interesting dialogue. Who needs the NFL, when we have you!

          “Because your view is not practical for any type of real-world success, monetary, sexual or social.”

          how did you come to this realisation that its not practical? maybe it’s not practical for you due to the choices you’ve made in your life?

          Choices play a large factor of why we are where we are.

          But let us not act like people get a head-start based on genetics, who your parents are, your environment.

          Being Will Smith son & Larry Smith makes a huge difference in your outcome.

          All that being said, being a simp & a sucker, ain’t practical for most men in America

          wait, do you even know what my view is? lololol. slight hint, neither game or what you consider simp. lolol.

          All I know it looks like the brown stuff that comes out of my azz.

          “The truth is, women really don’t want the harassment to stop. They just want to complain about it. That is fake outrage.

          People who want to truly change things, put there money where there mouth is.”

          and how would black women be putting their money where their mouth is?

          In black women’s case, if harassment was really the issue. I would challenge them, since we are not doing it right, to approach us, and then, you can educate us on approaching people.

          Or you can be the main initiator in courtship.

          Now, women on-line ain’t trying to approach the men that they like, but have complaints for years about the men they don’t want approaching them.

          So they can eat a dyck for all I care.

          “Don’t annoy me just because I hurt your simp bones.

          Read up on some Game & female psychology, then talk to me about women & their bullsh*t sexual harassment outrage.”

          how many women have to put out documentaries, how many website have to go up before you acknowledge this? now who’s being obtuse. lol.

          See last response. Women need to approach men collectively.

          and simp? SIMP? *lol*

          You don’t strike me as one of those dudes who want to “watch the world burn” types , if you are then my apologies, so I go with the more logical conclusion.

          trust…this isn’t a play for chicks. i get none, i never will. i got a more valuable prize i’m aiming for. That’s a nice try though.

          Ninja please. You can run that game on the Catholic Confessional Priest. They will listen to your story better than I would.

          Funny how…i put on the same show for you, that you put on for others, and i detect a tone of annoyance? don’t like it doc?
          quite unfortunate.

          I expect women to talk crazy & stupid, that is par for the course.

          But maybe I expect too much from some of the black men also. You are educating & updating me tho. So this is not an exercise in futility.

          you have this online insistence of invalidating the humanity of the opposite gender, i’m merely interested in the backstory of why your choice. but, i’m sure time will tell. later rather than sooner.

          I think well of black women….

          As long as they know their place.

          On the right blogpost, I will share my backstory as it becomes relevant.

          Good day. And please keep going.

  8. Did I just read:
    "How are we supposed to pay for the dates that we’re told we need to go dutch on or cover if we invite men? "

    Why on earth should we be paying for dates to begin with? That's the problem & that's why this whole "feminism" thing works against us. Going dutch is ridiculous – if a woman wants to be equal to a man then those women should be running down to the firehouse to be firefighers or fight in the WWF against a man. Hhmmpphh!
    My recent post What Difference Does It Make What I Wear To Church?

  9. "This has to be one of the worst things I've ever read from you."

    Now THAT is saying alot, considering the person being talked about at hand, lol!

  10. The pressure!!!! What is being lost in these discussions is that with every group there is a fringe/radical element that paints the whole movement in a bad stroke. Sadly in today's society, these are the loudest voices in the room. What happened to being able to apply critical/objective thinking to a cause even if you are in favor of it. Nowadays, everything has to be so polarizing, and people follow blindly and drink whatever Kool-Aid they believe to be the truth. Anyone who is critical is immediately branded the enemy and the conversation is reduced to a third grade pissing contest. If movements could both be objective, and police and check their fringe/radical elements, then the message won't continue to get mired in all the argumentative minutia.

    +1 for Amicus' objectivity! very refreshing indeed

    1. Agree. These days nuance and caveats are for academic journals and lengthy books…not comments sections. Relationships and gender are a popular topics because everybody has an opinion but no expertise other than their own experiences is required to engage. That's not going to change.

  11. That would be true, except some of the problems that people allude to aren't coming from the white element; they're coming from the black element as well, so I would agree with you when it comes from people with a different skin hue, but unfortunately it's not always a black/white issue; it's a black/black issue too.

    And in regards to your last part, it would be nice indeed, but I have to point out a pattern that is very counterproductive to achieving that: double talking. On one hand, some of the most vocal on here make it a point to alienate men (including those that would support the pro equality movement) with vitriolic stereotypes in one breath, and then expect those same men to become allies in the struggle, and it won't happen. Some people just don't know how to talk to people when they want their help. I'm not saying kiss somebody's behind, but denigrating them definitely will not help either.

  12. Men not being sexually harassed, or even politely approached, by women in public space is not a "privilege." After all, who would be bestowing such a privilege?

    If opposition to street harassment is supposed to be a major issue for contemporary feminism, then self-described feminists can rest assured that most men are allies on this front.

    1. Men, the majority of street harassment perpetrators, are bestowing said privilege by refraining from harassing other men.

      1. Your response is what's known as a reductio ad absurdum. Maybe you intended this.

        Anyway, although the vast majority of street harassers are men, the vast majority of men are not street harassers and do not support such harassment. Apologies if this reality does not fit with some oppositional feminist agenda.

  13. I missed a few points, I forgot to argue.

    1. I asked the question, what can black women do, that black men can’t?

    No one had a proper response.

    They only picked & choose the points they THOUGHT they can challenge.

    The truth is, in America, black women have a little more freedom & privilege than black men.

    One, they can date other races of the opposite s*x without having their mortality threatened.

    And they have an easier time economically than black men.

    White people see black women (who are not that cute) as less threatening to the white power structure.

    2. Black feminism cannot exist without weak/absent black male leadership.

    That is why when black men attempt to assert themselves as patriarchs, black feminists make the biggest stink about. They are comfortable with white male leadership & love white men, and love being his watchdogs.

    Good day

  14. Feminism to me is a woman having the right to be respected as a person capable of making her own choices about her life and her self. We always hear these arguments about letting a man be a man, be an independent woman. Be strong willed, be submissive. This all needs to stop. Let a woman make her own choice about what she wants to be. Both men and women are so judgemental about what a woman has the right to do that she feels conflicted. Feminism fought for a woman to have the freedom and legal right to make her own decisions about her life and how she can impact the world around her with no constraints. Just a little food for thought

  15. What’s with you and looks? I’ve read sonething that people tend to repeat word or phrases when they find themselves lacking in those qualities…u use cute, attractive, unattractive….your values seem to be strongly linked to physical attractiveness…I don’t think you hate…more like you seen insecure about some thing that is linked to what you feel about your self in the physical department

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