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Do Women Perpetuate Their Own Double Standards?

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Two weeks ago I wrote a piece called “Could Abstinence Lead To Dishonesty?“. In it I discussed why I felt abstinence wasn’t the cure-all for weeding out undesirable men. That post has led to today’s discussion. I think there’s a certain population of women that stick their nose up at other population of women. I have divided these groups of women between celibate women and non-celibate women. A lot of my commentary may seem skewed toward non-celibate women. As I elaborate, you will see why.

I had a conversation recently with a young lady who said she was celibate. Her reasoning you might guess would be one of two things: religious reasons or someone hurt her. Well, it was the latter and all too proverbial in it’s nature. Being the inquiring mind I am, I asked some questions on what urged her to shut down sexually. I asked because I believe you can choose not to have sex with certain people but decide to with others. The young lady was adamant in letting me know that she wasn’t messing with someone outside the confines of a monogamous relationship. I respect that, as should anyone.

What struck me was in her explanation of why she was celibate:

“I have respect for myself.”

This insinuated that anyone who had casual sex didn’t have respect for themselves. I guess that rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe that could have come out totally wrong on her part, but there is some significance still. I’ve had many conversations with women who were celibate. Some of which we could call fake celibate. The judgment is what I hated because I’m not a judgmental person. I feel like their verbiage is so much more of a defensive nature.

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I notice this from some of the celibate women I’ve spoken to. If you’re celibate, I am not begging you to change. As stated a couple weeks ago, I just want there to be an organic reason as to why you’re doing something. Don’t  be celibate under some idea that it makes you better than another woman. I can assure you that it doesn’t. Be celibate for reasons that don’t harbor negativity. If you want to grow personally or devote your energy to other facets of life, that’s fine.

To me, many women may feel that same judgment from some of their counterparts because they don’t subscribe to a celibate lifestyle. The defensive celibate women I have encountered has caused me to raise a few questions and I hope to hear your opinions on them. Are many celibate women truly celibate by choice or out of retaliation? Are many celibate women bitter? Are these celibate women so snobby to non-celibate women because they are enjoying a form of intimacy and happiness that they have lost or have yet to experience?

If nothing else I think this would be a great conversation piece, and definitely something to expound upon some more. I’m in no way saying the last conversation I had on this subject was with a snobby woman, but her Freudian slip allowed me to finally ask the questions I just did.

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These are my words and I make no apologies.

This post has been revised and was written originally on my first blog “The Doctor’s Office” last year. I thought in the wake of last week’s post, this discussion would be perfect.

DamnPops is a writer on the staff at SBM: “I’m not a biter, I’m a writer for myself and others. ” Brooklyn born dude trying to figure out this life just like you. Come on this journey with me. Follow me on Twitter @DamnPOPS 

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Photo Credit: Swirlingandmarriage.com

Comment(100)

  1. Yayyy first to comment I should get a prize. Anyway ummm yes most definitely women hold one another to double standards almost all of the time. I've seen women look down on other women because of celibacy decisions and even who has the least amount of partners. Personally I admire a woman who can wait till she gets married after already having experienced the awesomeness of sex. However what I don't support is you demeaning women who haven't made those same decisions. Now I also admire a woman who can have several casual sexual relationships and not get mad when it doesn't lead to a relationship. Me I can't do that so I try to be an in betweener. Only having sexual relationships with a boyfriend lol. However what ever a woman chooses to do with her sex life should be what she chooses to do without criticism.

  2. I think some women go the celibate route out of retaliation. On the grounds "of I'm tired of guys just wanting sex and nothing more so I'm just not going to put out at all". In my opinion I do not think it's a horrible way of thinking, because I don't believe every man should be in your intimate area. Nor should you sleep with someone who does not want the same things that you want. When she said "I have respect for myself", it kinda holds true. She values herself in a way that she wants to be frugal with who she gives the goods too. she requires more, and isn't that what we constantly see in these blogs, that men will do what you allow and woman need to require more and date someone like minded? That is what she is doing. I'm not saying if you sleep with someone that you do not have respect for self, but we do know there are women out there giving it up to who ever flashing them a smile and a American Express card.
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    1. The “respect” factor is an issue because we pass this idea on to young men and women that women who have and enjoy casual sex shouldn’t be respected or should be respected less. Then women try to use it as leverage against other women. I mean let a women that has been know to “do her thing” get married, the “I respect myself” women get so heated.

      Honestly the “casual sex” isn’t the reason these women are being disrespected. It’s the quality of men they decided to deal with, if your dealing with a man that is disrespectful it doesn’t matter if you are casually seeing him, in a committed relationship or married, your still going to feel disrespected, used etc…

      Which leads to the next thing, I respect what ever choices people make with their body. But thinking celibacy is a quick fix to your “ain’t sh#t” men issues, man the chex isn’t the issue, who you decide to “do it with” is the issue.

      1. You seem smart & I read your comments frequently and agree with most of them.

        Just one little pet peeve: You use the wrong form of “your” frequently, when it should be “you’re” as in you are. Don’t mean to be grammar police, but that’s just one of those things that drives me crazy.

      2. "thinking celibacy is a quick fix to your “ain’t sh#t” men issues, man the chex isn’t the issue, who you decide to “do it with” is the issue."

        I can attest to that. Sometimes in order to fix your "ain't sh#t" issues, you have to remove yourself from the situation. It's hard to better oneself if you keep doing something that clouds your judgement. I just feel in this day in age, someone who can control their s*x is a respectable thing. We are over-saturated with s*xuality, what women should and shouldn't do. To make that decision is a big one. However, because you are celibate does not mean that you are better than someone who chooses not to be. It comes down to your goals. If you can get what you want being celibate or not, then your choices have worked for you.
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        1. “just feel in this day in age, someone who can control their s*x is a respectable thing.”

          I agree. I focused on the respect factor because I think it affects women even when they are having chex in serious monogamous relationships. For example women not performing certain “chex acts” because they think their man will look at them different.

  3. In my experience, women who were virgins in every since of the word (the complicated definitions do to much for me), were nonsexual in a very non-judgmental way. Though, I have met celibate women who do not judge, in my experience, the vast majority of celibate of have an air of negativity when the topic of sex arises. I won't pretend to understand why, many times I do not probe. However, from just listening, many times, hurt from previous relationships is always a reoccurring theme in their reasoning. Celibacy has the potential to be a beautiful experience, I just wish everyone who chooses to be celibate milks the experience its worth.
    My recent post Channel Your Inner Yoncé

  4. Being a woman can be confusing sometimes. We’re told men don’t like or respect a woman who gives it up freely, then we’re told that holding out doesn’t mean anything. Because if a guy likes you, you can have sex with him the first night so it won’t make a difference. I do think some women adopt celebacy as a “I’m different. I don’t have sex with just anyone like those other women.” But, then those other women who do enjoy frequent “activities” with many men end up in a serious relationship or marriage, and errbody is confused. Women get shamed for giving it up & holding out. So, I think we try to develop ways to protect ourselves.

  5. I was celibate for almost 2 years (ending about 3 months ago yippie! lol) but I didn’t go around broadcasting it or looking down on others. I did it because I didn’t want to have sex with men for whom I didn’t see a future with in the long run. I will be 30 next year and I just couldn’t take it anymore. It was empowering. I actually loved it. Not a care in the world! Lol I do think that women look down on other women for other things. Some women with natural hair tend to look down on women who wear weaves, women who work out look down on women who don’t etc etc. It’s a sad reality. To add, I am both a fitchick and a natural headed-weave wearer. Lol to each its own. *shrugs* We are all allowed to choose what we what to do for ourselves, let others be.

  6. yes, ENGAGING IN CASUAL SEX IS A FORM OF DISRESPECT TO ONE'S SELF. Plain & simple- If you engage in casual sex on a regular basis you're most likely thinking with your feelings & hormones more than your brain, and there is no way you are sitting up in the clinic w/ every person you smash to get tested & waiting on all of their test results prior to sleeping w/ them. We all know condoms are not fail proof and they do not protect against all std's (ie. crabs & warts- just to name a couple….) & they sometimes break, so casual sex is always going to be a risk to one's personal health no matter how careful one tries to be. This is not me being judgmental, This is just some truth.

      1. I don't think it means sleeping w/ everyone, but if two people are sleeping together casually it means they have zero commitment to each other, so what's stopping them from going out there & getting someone else to smash? & who's to say that that someone else isn't doing someone else?— absolutely nothing, which adds more potential for diseases to get added to the mix.

        Making casual sex seem like it's not risky is unrealistic to me, cause like i said, if you don't care enough to commit to that person, you probably don't care enough to sit up in a clinic w/ that person & figure out if there health is on point before gettin it in. My thing is I do not judge anybody for they're sexual activities, celibate or not: but if you are going to be engaging in sex w/ out commitment, you might as well not delude yourself about all possibilities, especially w/ the aids rates among black women. it's real.

    1. “ENGAGING IN CASUAL SEX IS A FORM OF DISRESPECT TO ONE'S SELF”… If you engage in casual sex on a regular basis you're most likely thinking with your feelings & hormones more than your brain”

      I'll take Judgemental Statements for $200 Stu !!

      1. Where do people get off throwing the “respect” word in relation to how people treat themselves? You’re just putting your morality on what someone should do….with their body. In that case, depending on who you ask, disrespecting one’s self could be smoking, anal sex, eating Snickers, wearing a Timex, watching Scandal, selfies, BlackPeopleMeet.com, masturbating…you get the idea. Just because you think it and write it in caps doesn’t make it plain & simple. Individuals get to set their own standards on what it means to respect themselves.

      2. Most hormones (especially those of the sexual variety) originate in the brain. A good question is why we constantly produce hormones that make us to want to “disrespect ourselves”. Hmmm?

      1. The definition of casual sex is hooking up w/ somebody you're not committed to in order to gratify an urge (feeling) produced by a hormonal reaction lol. My statement was not judgmental. It was truth.I never even mentioned morality or my own personal beliefs. To me, everyone is entitled to do what they wanna do & you gets no shade from me, but ppl (black folk especially!) need not minimize the risk of casual smashing.

  7. I feet that most women use not having sex as a tool against men or a situation they had from the past. I also feel that waiting for that special someone is a good thing, however; what happen when the person you held yourself for is not all you wanted it to be in the sack. We all know that the sexual part of a relationship is important, and can make or break a relationship. Some women will give it up to someone with power, fame, money or a great body, but even these type of people can have a bad attitude and treat you like dirt. So I feel that having your sexual moments in life gives you the tool to understand your body and what you like or dislike. Life is short and we all know that no day is for sure. We can never know a person as good as we want to without being involved with them.. I feel that you have to know your like and dislikes before you made a move to Celibacy. Having sex is not a bad thing if you do it the right way. It's one of the best ways to show love for one another and it awakes the pasion within us. Out of all the things our world has, Man and Woman are the best and at the top of the list. Money, Power, Fame can replace to man and woman can share together.

    1. Sexual prowess is learned so if it didn't work out the first time, you keep doing it 'till you do. I would try to keep my learning to one person I trust to take that walk with me than to be ran thru by several dudes trying to get themselves, hence waiting for one.

  8. I think a woman being celibate because she respects herself is wonderful. It means that she knows her worth and isn't willing to compromise her most precious gift on just anyone. Not bashing women who feel liberated and want to be a little more open with themselves. Everyone has a motive to why they make the decisions that they make. Either way you have to look in the mirror and hope you can live with your decisions. If not then it's time for a change 🙂
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    1. “It means that she knows her worth and isn't willing to compromise her most precious gift on just anyone”

      But who said the woman having casual sex is compromising and that she’s doing it with just anyone. Maybe all she wants. I think we have to make the distinction between women who accept casual sex because they feel it’s the only thing they can get from a man/ and women who are having casual sex because they want to and they enjoy it.

      I think people feel that women only have casual sex when they feel low about themselves, or don’t value themselves or are looking for attention or accepting because they think that’s all their worth.

      Maybe the women who choose celibacy might have felt that way when they were sexually active and therefore decided that they need to step back reevaluate and take a different path, which is awesome. But not every woman having casual sex is doing it with any and every a-hole that feeds them bs.

      1. Now we're cooking with gas!!!! lol These are the nuances I wanted light shed on. If a man were to tell me he was celibate because he had respect for himself I'd want to slap him. Who the hell would he think he is? You know? I live with integrity, I'm responsible and I treat people well. I love myself, I respect myself. If I choose not to be celibate it doesn't make anyone more of anything than me. It's a pretty pompous mentality. And I know that it's different for guys, but I would feel disrespected as a woman if another woman told me the same.

        1. I'm sorry you would feel disrespected. I myself am celibate and it's because I have discovered that giving myself to someone who isn't worth it just makes no sense. It may make sense to you to do so….so if it does knock yourself out. I do have respect for myself and lots of it. I have been on both sides and can think for myself. I have come to the conclusion that having casual sex isn't for me…it may be for you and most of the world but that doesn't make it more right or wrong than my opinion. We can just agree to disagree and keep it moving.
          My recent post Trifecta Thursday

      2. I mean you are entitled to your opinion but I disagree. She may not realize it or maybe she just a victim of societal pressure or whatever you want to call it. People can give you any excuse they want for their actions…it's just in my opinion it's coming from a place low self-worth. To me sex just isn't sex or just something you do…I don't take it lightly. Maybe the majority of society does but I don't do things based on who's doing what. I march to the beat of my own drum. Things are getting worse and much more acceptable these days. Are they for the better? I don't think so but hey…I can just live my life for me.
        My recent post Trifecta Thursday

      3. Smilez_920: "Maybe the women who choose celibacy might have felt that way when they were sexually active and therefore decided that they need to step back reevaluate and take a different path, which is awesome. But not every woman having casual sex is doing it with any and every a-hole that feeds them bs."

        I'll just drop my cosign here.

    2. “It means that she knows her worth”

      No it doesn’t.

      The decision to go celibate doesn’t come packaged with self-confidence, good judgment and a Diet Coke.

      It’s just a regular ole single decision that COULD lead to some clarity but only after asking some serios-so questions in conjunction with shoe lacing the P. Celibacy is temporal and thus unimpressive. Go celibate FO LIFE and then we'll talk.

      They'll give it up sooner or later and their quest doesn’t give them any magical decision making powers when they stand naked in front of “the one”

      …to be fair, what it does give them is

      1.No kids.
      2.Lower risk of STDs.
      3.A waaaay more awesome first 50 times back in the saddle.

      I can love that.

      1. Maybe I should have included "she knows her worth after some life experience and clarity". In my opinion nothing good comes from casual sex except a temporary high that you may or may not regret later. The cons definitely outweigh the pros.
        My recent post Trifecta Thursday

        1. "In my opinion nothing good comes from casual sex except a temporary high that you may or may not regret later"—– Glad you said YOUR Opinion, because of the environment and people Around YOU.

          The World and Everyone Else are not like the Place(s) and People YOU had Problems with

        2. Of course it's my opinion. My environment doesn't affect me as much as you would think. I'm my own person and always have been. I don't have problems with people/places I have been. You shouldn't assume that was the case. I go on what I see, not from assumptions.
          My recent post Trifecta Thursday

        3. In my opinion nothing good comes from casual sex except a temporary high that you may or may not regret later. The cons definitely outweigh the pros.

          agreed.

        4. “In my opinion nothing good comes from casual sex except a temporary high that you may or may not regret later. The cons definitely outweigh the pros.”

          I think we’re drifting.

          I’d like to see your pro and con list, not to dispute it but I’m willing to bet that I could draw up a profoundly similar list in regards to eating a triple cheeseburger.
          …swearing off of those would earn my #respect as well.

          We’re talking about the look-down that comes with someone who decides to become celibate as if that holds more nobility than any other “cut- off” decision.

          The push back is because we all know (virgins aside) at one time smoking, cheeseburgers, shopping, sex, etc., was obviously done in conjunction with bad results and thus the “quasi-noble” decision to go celibate. In essence, we know they sucked at decision making. So now, why does making a seemingly noble choice warrant the “holier than thou” attitude? We’re just saying.

        5. I feel you I really do and you could make comparisons when it comes to celibacy with other things. I don't think I'm better than anyone else. I'm just me. If I come off that way that's my bad. I just have my opinion based off of past experiences and what I see. I try not to keep making the same mistakes over and over again…so I just changed it up to what suits me best. People have their reasons for becoming celibate just as people have their reasons for expressing themselves more openly. There is no right or wrong here, just a difference of perspective.
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  9. I've heard the phrase, "I respect myself" from women before, and I tend to have a sort of "huh?" response to it, mainly because it doesn't explain much and is pretty vague. I think what people mean by that, is that they respect themselves enough not do something that doesn't work for them for the sake of other people or what society tells them to do. This can not only be applied to celibacy, but dietary restrictions (veganism/raw diet), fitness habits, religion, natural vs. process hair, and a litany of other topics that there may not be a general consensus on. People just need to do what works for them, and in doing what makes your mind, body and soul happy is how you respect yourself.

    Maybe they feel like they weren't previously doing that while compromising their happiness for the sexual gratification of others, which is what happens a lot in casual sex relationships, especially if the person's developed feelings. It can be interpreted in many different ways. I think it only sounds "pompous" to people whose confidence in their own decisions may be wavering in some way, or people who need the validation of others to feel secure in their life choices. The key words in that phrase are "I" and "myself" — It's simple, they're not talking about you.

    At least that's how I see it.

  10. The thing about self respect is that it's relative. You can't say that people who have casual sex don't have respect for themselves because you don't know what respect means to another person. I've been celibate before and I did it because I just wanted time to myself. I didn't entertain any male company, I only hung out with my friends and family and I tried to focus on my artwork. As far as I'm concerned, I respected myself both when I was celibate and when I wasn't. I didn't let anyone force me into sex, and I made the choice to abstain on my own as well. These are personal decisions that I keep personal by keeping by business to myself so people don't have the opportunity to judge either way. I know what type of person I am and my decision to have sex or not doesn't alter that. It's just a matter of whether I want to pleasure myself or have someone do it for me 🙂

  11. I'm going to keep it entirely real. Why would a woman give such a precious, important piece of herself to a man who could care less about her/wants nothing more from her than just sex? Reminder, we women are emotional creatures by nature who get attached easily after an act as intimate as sex. What woman wants to experience hurt feelings and rejection after being used for sex; celibacy at least helps us avoid this. Being shunned and rejected after sex is preventable. I'd much rather be sexless/celibate rather than getting d!cked down by a man whose main objective is to add a notch to his belt and/or use me for sex without reciprocating emotionally.

    1. I understand that sentiment and there's nothing wrong with it. My issue with this issues is that one woman shouldn't put down another because of a difference in lifestyle. That's my only point. If celibacy works for many it's totally fine. But people shouldn't turn their nose up on others. I'm speaking generally of course not you necessarily.

  12. 1. Someone said this already, celibacy is not a foolproof way to weed out undesirable men.

    Because, truth be told, men who are willing to wait, willing to invest, are often chosen last, which would make them "undesirable".

    2. Someone talked about how men just you for giving it up too easy vs not giving it up at all vs making them wait.

    That whole spiel about that is CONTEXT.

    What type of men do you like?

    Are you checking for men who check for you, or you just simply chasing men that you like?

    Are you trying to make men who you like, but are not too crazy about you into a long-term relationship?

    As far as the men that you check for, what are their common ideologies about women, s-x & marriage?

    Cause it is really about your sexual/marriage market value and picking the type of men who would be happy to marry you, whether he sleeps with you the first night, or in 90 days.

    Most women in 2013 do not like most of the men that like them & want them for more than a few nights.

    So, the whole men judge you thing is MOOT without assessing ideologies & market value in your region.

    There is more to the story.

  13. Most celibate women I've spoken to definitely look down on sexually active women. "I have self-respect" as a reason implies that anyone of opposite view is lacking said respect. It's like if I said I don't party because "I'm smart and don't like wasting time." You know I think anyone who does like to get crazy every now and then is stupid. I could just say I don't like partying because "I'm just not a party person."

    1. What you're describing is "slut shaming"–where the implication is that a woman who enjoys "casual" sex is a "slut." There's cause for "celibate" (or virgin) women to do this, though it's now a losing battle.

      The public value of P has dropped dramatically: a lot is available on the market, so the bartering rate is low. Celibate women have no market impact, since desirable men can easily enough move on to a different woman for sex without commitment or even much effort.

      If far more women could be socially pressured to be celibate, the public value of P could rise high enough to barter for a man's commitment–like in bygone days. Ironically, celibate women would then be slut shamed by virgin women: since celibate women had given up the P for cheap, they selfishly broke the cartel and became unreliable allies for keeping the market strong.

      The moral of the story: celibate women are in no position to be judgmental, whatever their personal reasons for deciding to take a break.

  14. Everybody and i mean EVERYBODY got something to say about a woman's sexuality. There is not one grown woman in metropolitan US that has not had her sexual history evaluated and judged and questioned. I see it everyday. It has nothing to do with celibacy. Sexually active women shade other women for having sex…more? I'm not sure. Men stay shading women (especially black women) with their sexual behavior. I have never heard anyone speak about self-respect in reference to a man; it's always a woman. And it pisses me off because this society teaches girls at a very young age to start dogging each other for being sexual beings (which we all are).

    1. Everybody and i mean EVERYBODY got something to say about a woman’s sexuality. There is not one grown woman in metropolitan US that has not had her sexual history evaluated and judged and questioned.

      Sounds about right.

      I refuse to invest in a woman who has let 3 or more dudes hit.

      Because chances are, he hit that within the same week you met him.

      And since, I am the guy you want to buy the metaphorical cow so to speak, that is disrespectful within itself.

        1. @youngheaux

          I cannot tell 100%.

          1. All women are h-es until proven otherwise.

          2. I can have an idea based on looking at said girl. 80% accuracy rate

          3. I can appear nonjudgmental & the dirty liaison fly out. 60% accuracy rate.

          If I intend on marrying said girl. I will a hire private investigator.

          So, it is not impossible to find out @youngheaux

        2. LMAO. You just throwing numbers out there? "80% accuracy rate" whaaaat? YOU MADE THAT UP. You don't know, period. And you never will.

          This is all assuming a woman would ever touch you….which is incredulous.

        3. @young Heaux

          If you believe that black Heaux won’t give me the time of day,

          White girls, too easy, so I have to get more black h0es

          Y’all gon be MAD at me.

          Lol

      1. My man!

        But you do run a dangerous game b/c women be lyinnnnnng.

        And the ones who have let fewer than 3 dudes hit may be either: 1. virgin prudes or 2. unattractive prudes.

        1. @realtalk

          The thing is, in order to get the best women

          – virginal

          – childless

          – young

          – pretty/s-xy/hot/7-9

          – solid relationship intangibles

          I have to have my money together & I have to keep improving my social skills/Game/Learned Charisma.

          So, while I am building my empire, I keep my eye on the chaste girls coming out of high school (18+).

          So, it it not as hard as you think, but you have to put in that work!

          Good Day

        2. @realtalk

          The thing is, in order to get the best women

          – virginal
          – childless
          – young
          – pretty/s-xy/hot/7-9
          – solid relationship intangibles

          I have to have my money together & I have to keep improving my social skills/Game/Learned Charisma.

          So, while I am building my empire, I keep my eye on the chaste girls coming out of high school (18+).

          So, it it not as hard as you think, but you have to put in that work!

          Good Day…

        3. I am so repulsed you sound like a sociopath. I will seriously pray for the women and girls who will or have had the misfortune of meeting you. May Allah be with them.

        4. Why does he sound like a sociopath?

          he said he keeps his eye on the "chaste girls coming out of high school (18+)." last time I checked, 18 y/o girls are adults. please save you condescending attitude for people who give a damn. you act like attractive/fly-looking 18 y/o women don't mess with older men.

        5. i was an 18 year old attractive girl not too long ago. they not really checkin for yall old asses. the only way one WOULD fall for someone like adonis would probably be because of low self esteem, they're still developing mentally, and possibly the sociopathic-like "learned charisma" he speaks of.

    2. @young heaux here's why I believe that this is so: Ladies are socialized to be conservative sexually and to make it an abstract extension of who you are (identity). That's why traditionally women had to be emotionally linked to a guy before sex occurred (prostitutes excluded). Men on the other hand, are socialized to the idea that sex is "what we do" therefore we hold no social value to our numbers. Meaning we aren't taught to feel shame about our numbers because we are taught that sex is a function not an extension of our being. I'm not saying its right, but it's how it is…ladies use sex to take the "moral high-ground", that's why ladies are judged more harshly in my opinion.

      1. i agree. its a society's, and its members', fault for perpetuating it. not all cultures heavily criticize women as they do in contemporary black American culture.

        1. @Young Heaux @southerngyrl

          Please tell me which cultures do not heavily criticize women who engage in slutty behavior.

          I'll be here all day.

  15. It’s completely practical for a woman to decide I’m going to wait. What I find curious is your article seems to paint all jump-offs as cosmopolitan and modern. I’d love to read a blog explaining how girls who have casual sex are anything more than jump offs lol. As a guy who has encountered both I used to say, I respected the girl who made you wait or had sex with you the first night as long as it was what SHE decided she wanted to do. However in hindsight- that was just me justifying my gratitude for an easy slide that I probably would have never married. So wise one, enlighten us…..how is the 1st night freak anything more than just a freak and will we guys actually buy the cow if the milk is for free?

    1. “how is the 1st night freak anything more than just a freak”

      Better question…How is the one that made YOU wait any less of a freak?

      You see what I did there?

      I disagree with your premise of that equates a roll in the sac for your level of respect for a woman.

      Can I get a High “She Lives in My Lap” Five!? …….anybody……..no?…ok

      The amount of respect that a woman warrants is not based on your 24 second sex clock or whether or not YOU consider them marriage material. Women…actual women, exude respect, or they don’t. We predators know it when we see it.

      I’ve had my fair share of heauxs, but I’ve also had some 1st round KO’s with women that I continue to have respect for to this day. Live a little. They’re out there.

      It ain’t black and white mane.

    2. I'm guesing there's a disconnect with what I see as casual sex and what other see as it. To me casual sex isn't necesarily one night stands at all. Casual sex to me, in a very bsic form is just sex that goes on outside of relationship label. The woman I spoke with seemed to look down on any woman who had sex outside the confines of a relationship. She herself has been one of those ladies. This article painted with a broad brush so no I didn't specify one nigth stands, jump offs, sluts, etc. I didn't do that because I don't think a woman who has chooses to have sex and not be in a relationship is a whore. There's many women out there for which a relationship just isn't her focus. Maybe she has that one dude she can call when she wants her needs handled. It doesn't give any right that she should be frowned upon.

      1. So women who have one night stands, multiple partners at one time or don't mind being jump offs are the said whores? lol, sounds like we found your freudian slip. However, a woman who chooses to have noncommitted sex with just one person is exempt? Man, also she doing is opting out of using a device which to me might as well be one step above celibacy and two above abstinence. If you are going to be advocate, be one for the extreme cases listed above. The notion of just sexing one dude sans relationship sounds like a commitment in it of itself.

    3. We got to understand we're talking about people's sexual lives here. This is only one facet of who we are. How are we using this one facet to define people's total beings. We still owe it to ourselves to be responsible and honest people. We should be progressive in our work and long to create better interactions with one another. There's so many other facets that make up a respectable person. In my opinion, sex cannot be the barometer in which you decide to respect a person. It's a lifestyle at the end of the day, we don't have to agree with it, but we shouldn't be condemning on the flip side. Don't know if this was a tangent but I hope I sort of answered your remark.

  16. I think we are all (including the author) missing a VERY important thing here…A woman can do WHATEVER she wants with her body for WHATEVER reason and it DOES NOT have to make sense to ANYONE besides herself. Thus, if a woman says "I am celibate because the sky is blue, chipmunks are cute, and water is wet" that is her reason REGARDLESS of if it makes sense or not.

    1. I mean in theory no one can dispute that Ms. and I won't. The real underlying theme I want to poke at is that I don't see men finding ways to bring down one another. Now I could be wrong but the comments I wrote on I would never hear a guy say something of the sort. I'm really saying if you want to live a certain way it's fine. Turniing up your nose at someone isn't. That attitude doesn't uplift women is all i'm saying. The attitude isn't a good one.

      1. Totally agree on that…there should be no shaming at all from anyone. Honestly, how a person chooses to live is no one's business. The problem that I have is that it's really not for men or women to decide what is a 'good enough' reason to be celibate. However, I think I misinterpreted your spin on the story, which is that it's not ok for women to feel better than others based on the simple fact that they are celibate. I agree with this, but I think we enter murky territory when we start questioning why women are celibate. We might want to focus on why women (and men) feel the need to judge another person's lifestyle.

        I also disagree with your comment about men not bringing down other men for being not celibate. I think that there is a lot of shaming and judging that occurs in the male culture. It just manifests itself differently than in women's culture.

  17. I think this depends on the value you infuse in it. Many times that value can range from emotional to just physical. It will never be the same from person to person. One person may value (not to be confused with enjoy) it more emotionally than another who may value it more physically and based on how you value sex it will determine how you compromise with it. If you think of it like a spectrum with emotional connection on one end and physical connection on the other. Some may be closer to one end of the spectrum with sex being more of an emotional connection and some on the other end feel sex is a physical connection, while I think most of us sit in the middle, with it having equal physical-emotional values. No two people will value sex the same way and in fact you may value sex differently at various points of your life.

  18. Late to the conversation, but I believe that women perpetuate this type of double standard even moreso than men. Frankly, I think men (maybe not the guys on this site) are pretty liberal in terms of what they feel regarding women and their celibacy, or even the numbers game. Most men I talk to in real life don't feel the need to dog women because of how many men they've been with or the type of interaction (casual, relationship, FWB, etc). Women WILL do this. It is a judgment thing. They'll say "I am better than this woman because I've had fewer partners" or "she is better than her because she is celibate".

    Women do this constantly. It needs to stop.

    1. "Frankly, I think men (maybe not the guys on this site) are pretty liberal in terms of what they feel regarding women and their celibacy, or even the numbers game."

      You're incorrect. The double standard is here to stay. Even if women stop shaming each other, men will continue to do so. Men may not articulate out loud their feelings regarding women's celibacy or the amount of men a certain woman has slept with but you BETTER BELIEVE men do care. And more power to men for giving a damn. Women who have been with over a certain number of men are viewed in a less than favorable light and aren't respected. At best, they're viewed as FWBs or jumpoffs by most men (excluding simps). Conversely, to some men (rightly or wrongly) women who have no sexual experience are also viewed less favorably. Some men may find those women to be prudes or liable to become too clingy. Unfair? Yes. But this is our society. No matter what women want to believe/be told, men WILL ALWAYS judge a woman by her sexual activity (or lack thereof)–past, present, and future.

      So what's a woman to do? Be consistent and true to yourself. If you're sexually active, be sexually active. If you're a celibate by choice, remain celibate and wait until you find a man whom you believe. Just be sure to accept the consequences of your actions–good or bad.

      1. Statements like "men will always" are huge generalizations. You can't speak for all men and other men on this site can't speak for all men. You can't even speak for all black men. The respect thing you're talking about is probably your own personal view. That is fine. But lets not act like the women who have been with a quite a few men aren't getting married and doing all the "traditional" things, because they are. regardless of this supposed "view" that you say men have of these women.. And who pray tell are marrying these women? Umm. Men. And no, they aren't all simps. Which, may I add, is the stupidest f***** word ever. It is an othering. Oh, this dude doesn't believe what I believe. I guess he's a simp. Oh, this dude agrees with the women on this one. Guess he's a simp. It is without a doubt, stupid as hell.

        I think some men on here have such extreme views. Often times they take their own views and apply it to all men. Don't do it. You can only speak for yourself and maybe provide some examples of friends/family that have an experience. Maybe. Your experience says that men care a lot about a woman's sexual history. My experience says no, and that these guys don't' even ask those type of questions to know. There was an article on SBM a while back about that same thing. You should check it out.

        I don't know any of these people on this site, but trust, this is the internet. People can and do perpetrate on the internet. It wouldn't surprise me if the people with these extreme views didn't fall in line with their own "views" in real life. But even if they did, they are only a tiny segment of the population.

        Also, the double standard and judgment may be true in some of today's AMERICAN society, but Americans aren't the only people in this world. This is a big old world with many other societies and cultures other than our own.

        .

        1. "Statements like "men will always" are huge generalizations. You can't speak for all men and other men on this site can't speak for all men. You can't even speak for all black men."

          Funny how females always say this when they're confronted w/unfavorable statements. It's OK for them to generalize men and their behaviors and pass those generalizations as facts but as soon as we talk about the sistas…

          "lets not act like the women who have been with a quite a few men aren't getting married and doing all the "traditional" things, because they are."

          I never said women weren't getting married. I just said that men care about the sexual histories of women whom they're dating/marrying. Reading comprehension fail.

          "And who pray tell are marrying these women? Umm. Men. And no, they aren't all simps. Which, may I add, is the stupidest f***** word ever."

          As defined by….wait for it….SBM, a simp is "is just 'too much'. He never has his own opinion and…gives into every fit, tantrum, complaint, or request that is given to him. Its sad and pathetic." The men who knowingly marry promiscuous women are simps b/c they gave into their demands to marry them. Self-respecting men don't knowingly/willingly marry women who've racked up mileage. Even worse, these simps are happy they "get" these women. Women marry simps for stability once they're old and been worn out by countless men.

          "Your experience says that men care a lot about a woman's sexual history. My experience says no, and that these guys don't' even ask those type of questions to know. "

          As I said before, men may not openly ask women about their histories (probably b/c they know women will likely lie) but they care. There's a reason why women who are known to be promiscuous are called "hoes" and are slut-shamed–by men and women. Hence why many women REFUSE to reveal their numbers to men whom they're seriously dating when asked.

          "the double standard and judgment may be true in some of today's AMERICAN society, but Americans aren't the only people in this world. This is a big old world with many other societies and cultures other than our own."

          You're having a laugh! The double standard is international. Americans aren't the only culture of people who slut-shame. If anything, people treat slutty women worse overseas. Known sluts get shunned and even killed in various countries. A ho is a ho is a ho. No matter the culture. But I'll play along; dating for promiscuous black women is definitely not better on the international scale (save for in Africa; but even then, they prefer their own traditional women). Fact is, black women are the least desired women in today's interconnected society for purposes of marriage/dating. Why? B/c men of different cultures view black women as sexual chattel. When it comes to choosing women to date/marry, sistas come in dead last. Think slavery. Add this to all the other stereotypes of black women shown in worldwide media and you think men of other cultures will marry/settle down w/black women w/slutty tendencies?!?! You so cray!

          Your comment, at best, is wishful thinking. The truth is that men will NOT knowingly marry promiscuous women.

        2. The real question is…

          How many men can a woman (in the 16-27 age group) sleep with before she's considered promiscuous, or even a "ho"?

          Fellas, the women's responses will tell you everything.

          I start the bid at 7.

        3. good luck finding a girl who's only had sex w/3 dudes these days. unless you're planning on going young (like a 22/23 y/o girl when you're 30), i think 3 might be a tad bit unrealistic. but then again, only God knows. do you, playa!

        4. A woman who's slept with more than 10 men by 27 is a ho.

          That's a rate of sex with 1 man every year since she's been 17.

          I can't.

        5. I got this bro.

          And i probably won't be around these parts once they get their BAN-Wagon together.

          So, i thankful for the @obviouses the @alis & you @realtalk.

          I am glad i am not the only negro who feels some type of way about today's affairs.

          Good night

        6. Wow, the one man in the world who speaks for all white, black and asian men in the universe? How lucky for me.

          Why did I think I could have an actual intelligent discourse here? My bad. I forgot where I was for a brief moment. Thanks for the laugh though.

        7. I never said that I speak for all white, black, and asian men in the universe. That's impossible. But I'm willing to bet a pretty penny that most men in today's society prefer not to marry promiscuous women who've slept with a disgusting number of men. There's a difference in the type of women men will sleep with and the type who they bring home to the parents.

          And, if you look in my previous comment, you'd see that I was using facts/logic to have an intelligent discourse with you on here. It's just that you @southerngyrl have a horrible habit of becoming defensive and engaging in name-calling when people disagree with you using facts/logic. If you disagree, please make legitimate and fact-based arguments instead of acting like a b****.

        8. I see @southergyrl got real silent over there…

          but, in seriousness, i'd bet my bottom dollar that the consensus of men would not wife up a ho if they actually knew of her ho-ish sexual past.

          how men can know of the sexual histories of their wives/girlfriends is another question altogether.

        9. (1) @!!!

          You are totally correct about your second paragraph, if guys knew the kind of s-xual lives the women they found to be wifey material, they would easily hate women to the core.

          Let us not even get into PATERNITY FRAUD.

          (2)@!!!

          I think you are asking the wrong question bro, IT IS EASY TO IDENTIFY A SL-T And here

          The question you really wanna ask is, how do identify the low-key SL-TS & wh-res, you know the professional white collar women who are banging their boss or the college girl who have extensively hung out at frat parties.

          But these women don't show too many tells.

          I can't give you my intuition about how I sniff out sl-tty women.

          But I can give you two solid guidelines to ensure that you will never ever be ensnared to a sl-tty woman LONG-TERM.

          1. Treat all women like h-es until you prove otherwise.

          2. If you find a woman you really like, and she seems like a keeper.

          BEFORE YOU BUY THAT RING!!!

          Hire a PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR. And tell him to sniff around her old neighborhood, her alma matter, her friends, potential guys she might have slept with.

          And a lot of these women have sextapes floating around somewhere, some of which their faces didn't make it in there.

          You are going to have to wait for facial/body recognition software to update.

          I hope that helps.

  19. Yes can we stop with the PSA's that are disguising some serious self-righteousness. The question at hand is why all the shade? Why do celibate people feel they have the moral high-ground. You say people can do what they want, but in the same breath take shots by throwing out "respect" and "risk", we know that health risks are real, but this isn't what this topic is about. When people do that, they are taking shots. People are entitled to their vices and the risks that come with them, just as you have a right to your opinion. However, the opinion shouldn't be used to beat people of a different opinion over the head. Fin

  20. I think that most women who choose to be celibate choose that lifestyle because they truly want it. The women that are celibate out of retaliation are more than likely bitter as hell. I don’t understand why anyone would deprive themselves of anything to retaliate against someone else. These are the same women that are snobby to the rest of women who are happily getting their freak on. And they are snobby because they are trying to gas themselves up about the ass backwards decision they made.

  21. I will preface my following statements with this: a hit dog will holler.

    Are women celibate by choice or out of retaliation? It’s all a choice we just don’t necessarily understand everyone’s choices.

    Are many celibate women bitter? In my experience no. Maybe the one you were speaking with was?

    Are they jealous? Could be but that would ultimately depend on the situation.

    I think that people get touchy over perceived disses than actual ones.

    1. In all fairness though, more often than not, celibate/virgin women tend to walk around w/a prudish aura and look down on sexually-active women. I also find them to be the most emotionally pent-up. This is probably why a lot of them have a difficult time getting or keeping a man.

      In the end, they're probably doing what's right for them by being abstinent but given how lonely they get and how society is these days, I wouldn't want to switch places with them.

  22. My immediate response is….how is casual sex a cure for loneliness? I get how a relationship is but if it's a smash and dash…you're still alone. I'm going to put myself out there so the other side can be seen.

    I simply speak up because I am the celibate/virgin sort. I don't feel that I'm any better than my girls gettin' some the regular, especially when there are many times I would love to be the one getting some too. Not to knock the religious sisters but maybe if I were doing it for those reasons I would be snobbish. In my experience people have always made the assumption that I'm doing this because I'm "too smart", "too bougie", or too something or other before actually asking why. I say that to say the judgement is on both sides of the fence, just a different kind. I could get in my feelings and say the just about every commentator has called me bitter, jealous, emotionally stunted and stuck-up but I don't because I know that's not me. That's the people y'all ran into. Some women have gotten on the defensive just because I say I choose not to. Of course thinking I'm throwing some kind of shade, they want to probe with a series of why? and why? And after I provide a full discourse into my decision, they ultimately agree that I have good reasons, making the best (albeit very hard) decision and hope that I stay my course because sex has given them more complications into their lives than simplicity. And like that the storm in sisterhood is over.

    And the whole thing could have been avoided with some understanding.

    1. A person who chooses to remain a virgin deserves respect. So you have mine.

      And I don't mean to say that all abstinent women are prudes or judgmental but a lot of them are. They use the fact that they don't have casual sex to make themselves feel better.

      But, as you prove, some virgins/celibate women don't try to judge others.

      Sorry if I offended you

      1. No need. You didn't. Like I said I know me. I prefaced my comments that statement to say that I think people are not actually being snubbed by every celibate person who says that they are celibate because they "respect" themselves but that people (and women can do this especially because I do sometimes) find and insult where there isn't one. And that everything can be cool beans if you take time to understand.

        Maybe in that persons life from their experiences not having casual sex is symbol of their own growth to themselves. Leave it at that than say "oh, so you trying to say that I don't respect myself for having sex?"

        You don't have to respect on the basis of being a virgin, especially since I can't stand the status sometimes. Respect the reasoning behind it don't create an issue where there might not be one.

  23. I wish I was around back in December….LOL!

    In my own previously 6 years celibate life (up until my recent break) I found the general public to be more judgmental of me than I ever was of them; much like the majority of people who commented here. I didn’t share this fact with most people, but those who knew me well assumed I was…I guess it was obvious. People wanted to know why, how long, how do you do it, etc… they told me I was not normal.

    Why does anyone owe the next person an explanation for their life choices?

    I would get people telling me how much I needed to have s3x, for a whole host of reasons. In addition they would ask me questions (much like here). I’d answer the questions only to be scrutinized for my own very personal decisions. They told me I thought I was better…. SMH, ANY PERSONS SELF PROJECTED BS IS THEIR OWN STRUGGLE. READING MORE INTO A STATEMENT THAN WHAT WAS INTENDED IS ONLY A PROBLEM FOR THE PERSON ASSUMING TO READ MINDS. I certainly didn’t need to do what they wanted me to do in order for them to feel better about me.

    Most people who are bitter and mean are probably that way despite not having s3x. Those that are judgmental are probably that way even when they engage in s3x…look at all the s3xually active judgmental people who responded.

    I did not set out to be celibate. I needed time for me, and my focus was on maintaining my family. In my experience with relationships, men placed far too much focus on s3x. I didn’t want to deal with just being someones s3xual partner.

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