Before everyone gets their panties in a bunch, let me explain. Comedian Louis C.K. has a new(ish) sitcom called, Louie. In this sitcom, which is funny to me because I like Louis C.K. a whole lot but I can understand why not everyone is watching it, there is a Fat Girl soliloquy. (I want to make it clear, i’m not at all sure if it’s cool to use the word “fat” so I put it in quotation marks. In all honesty, I avoid saying the word myself… by any means necessary.) It has since now went extremely viral on the Internet and it really drives at some real issues that arise when people who are overweight or heavier start dating. I can’t do it justice but I can post it here so you can read it. If you haven’t seen the episode, check it out. At a minimum, watch the clip at the end of the post.
Vanessa: Ugh, dammit. That is so goddamn disappointing, Louie.
Louie, you know what the meanest thing is you can say to a fat girl? “You’re not fat.” I mean, come on, buddy. It just sucks. It really really sucks. You have no idea. And the worst part is, I’m not even supposed to do this. Tell anyone how bad it sucks, because it’s too much for people. I mean, you, you can talk into the microphone and say you can’t get a date, you’re overweight. It’s adorable. But if I say it, they call the suicide hotline on me.
I mean, can I just say it? I’m fat. It sucks to be a fat girl. Can people just let me say it? It sucks. It really sucks. And I’m going to go ahead and say it. It’s your fault.
Look, I really like you, you’re truly a good guy, I think. I’m so sorry. I’m picking you. On behalf of all the fat girls, I’m making you represent all the guys. Why do you hate us so much? What is is about the basics of human happiness, feeling attractive, feeling loved, having guys chase after us, that’s just not in the cards for us? Nope. Not for us.
How is that fair? And why am I supposed to just accept it?
Louie: You know, Vanessa, you’re a very, really beautiful—
Vanessa: If I was a very, really beautiful, then you would have said yes when I asked you out. I mean, come on, Louie, be honest here. You know what’s funny? I flirt with guys all the time. And I mean the great looking ones, the really high-caliber studs? They flirt right back, no problem. Because they know their status will never be questioned. But guys like you never flirt with me, because you get scared that maybe you should be with a girl like me.
And why not? You know, if you were standing over there looking at us, you know what you’d see? That we totally match. We’re actually a great couple together. And yet, you would never date a girl like me. Have you ever dated a girl that was heavier than you? Have you?
Louie: Yes I have, yes I have.
Vanessa: No no no, I didn’t say have you ever fucked a fat girl, Louie. I’m sure you have. Every guy has. I mean, when I met you, if I had said, “Hey, do you want to go to the bathroom and screw on a big can of peaches?” you would have gone for it. No, I’m saying, have you ever dated a fat girl. Have you ever kissed a fat girl? Have you ever wooed a fat girl? Have you ever held hands with a fat girl? Have you ever walked down the street in the light of day, holding hands, with a big girl like me?
Go ahead. Hold my hand. What do you think is going to happen? You think your dick is going to fall off if you hold hands with a fat girl? You know what the sad thing is? It’s all I want. I mean, I can get laid. Any woman who is willing can get laid. I don’t want that. I don’t even need a boyfriend or a husband. All I want is to hold hands with a nice guy, and walk and talk —
What are your thoughts? Do you think it’s harder for heavier women to find people to date? Do you think they have to mute themselves in society so that they are not judged? Is their struggle a silent one or are they encouraged to speak out? I think it’s one of those things where if you speak out then you’re the “fat” girl, and if you don’t then nobody would ever pay attention to you or your feelings. Damn if you do, damned if you don’t.
What is dating like for a Man
Self-Made Man: One Woman’s Year Disguised as a Man
Here is what she wrote about dating women as a man:
For these women, men as a subspecies – not the particular men with whom they had been involved – were to blame for the wreck of a relationship and the psychic damage it had done them. It’s hardly surprising, then, that in this atmosphere, as a single man dating women, I often felt attacked, judged, on the defensive.
Many of my dates – even the more passive ones – did most of the talking. I listened to them talk literally for hours about the most minute, mind-numbing details of their personal lives; men they were still in love with, men they had divorced, roommates and co-workers they hated, childhoods they were loath to remember yet somehow found the energy to recount ad nauseam. Listening to them was like undergoing a slow frontal lobotomy.
Weren’t people supposed to be on their best behaviour on first dates? Weren’t they supposed to at least pretend an interest in the other person, out of politeness if nothing else?
The women I met wanted a man to be confident. They wanted in many ways to defer to him. I could feel that on many dates, the unspoken desire to be held up and led, whether in conversation or even in physical space, and at times it made me feel quite small in my costume, like a young man must feel when he’s just coming of age and he’s suddenly expected to carry the world under his arm like a football. And some women did find Ned too small physically to be attractive. They wanted someone, they said, who could pin them to the bed or, as one woman put it, “someone who can drive the bus”. Ned was too willowy for that. I began to understand from the inside why Robert Crumb draws his women so big and his diminutive self begging at their heels or riding them around the room.
Yet as much as these women wanted a take-control man, at the same time they wanted a man who was vulnerable to them, a man who would show his colours and open his doors, someone expressive, intuitive, attuned. This I was in spades, and I always got points for it. But I began to feel very sympathetic toward heterosexual men – the pressure to be a world-bestriding colossus is an immensely heavy burden to bear, and trying to be a sensitive new age guy at the same time is pretty well impossible. Expectation, expectation, expectation was the leitmotif of Ned’s dating life
*Tries to tie this into todays post* Did she date any fat girls?
Hmmm… I used to think that it may be harder for heavier women to find a mate, but my last 3 gfs who’ve gotten married have been bigger then size 20 and they’ve found great successful loving men to share their lives with … and all my skinny gfs are single as a lone penny. I cant call it.. I think that it has to do with personality, character, vibe, chemistry etc… Plus weight is something that can be changed, a person’s ethics, values, foundation cannot.
What is dating like for a heavier man? do they find issue as well… I’m sure there are chubby-chasers on both sides .. I’ve heard men fawn over Jill Scott and Queen Latifah and women drool over Rick Ross and Heavy D (RIP). Their weight has nothing to do with their perceived attractiveness, sex appeal etc and I think that most people who aren’t superficial and shallow can see that.
What are your thoughts? I think there is a lot of truth to this convo. However, let’s be mindful that races, and nationalities differ.
I’ve known a lot of white men. I haven’t seen too many white men going after women bigger than a size 12. Not only that, the white women I know and work with stay the same size, (about a four) forever in an effort to keep their man faithful and happy. Ironically, and unfortunately I don’t think it works most of the time.
We know that brotha’s and I know that Indians tend to be more lenient towards full figured women. More black men and Indians will seriously date and marry a “thicker” woman, as opposed to white men only dating slimmer women and tolerating, (but not liking) some weight gain after many years of marriage and children.
Do you think it’s harder for heavier women to find people to date?
Not necessarily. I think it depends on the woman, what she has, and where she lives. In the south it’s not a big deal. Southern men tend to be cool with seriously dating and marrying really truly “big” women. Not just “thick” but actual bbw’s.
In Philly and NY not so much. I was considered “thick” as a size 12. Once a woman got into teen sizes, ie 14, 16, and 18, and shopped at Lane Bryant Philly and NY brotha’s consider that fat.
It also depends on the womans personality. My cousin has a very charming and sparkling personality. She’s also a “boss” type chick in every sense of the word..lol. She is an office manager, has her own Real Estate Investment business, has a purse and shoe collection that is well over 10G’s. She has swag on a thousand, and very self confident. She’s very worldly and well traveled as well. She speaks Spanish and some French and she is very intelligent. But she is also a bbw. Men Love her. What they seem to love, respect, admire, and lust after the most is her personality, swag, and sex appeal. Not saying she has it goin on like that because she is my cousin, but she really does. She’s a Bad Bit**. Even though Monique the comedienne had known her current husband for many years, he dated all kinds of slim model chicks, and she was just his fat unattractive female friend. According to her story on the radio and in interviews, he didn’t start checking for her until she truly became “famous.” I’m sure the money that followed the fame didn’t hurt either.
Do you think they have to mute themselves in society so that they are not judged? Absolutely not. I think they should be healthy and be who they are. Not every full figured woman eats like 3 big pigs. My bbw cousin didn’t eat much more than me most times. She had a genuine thyroid problem. Which is why her insurance fully covered her Gastric Bypass surgery. Also, not every bbw is unhealthy.
Yes too much fat around your heart, organs, and major arteries can kill you. It depends on where the fat is. If a woman is hippy, and big from the waist down it’s not so bad. There are very slim women with extremely big breasts. Like cup size E or J. My big busted friends and family have serious back problems because of their enormous breast size.
Is their struggle a silent one or are they encouraged to speak out? I think in todays society, it changes daily depending on who it is and what’s “trending.” Sometimes bbw’s are in, sometimes their not.
If a bbw has a serious eating disorder that should be addressed. However, no woman/girl should be ridiculed, teased, or taunted because of her weight. I was teased in school for being too skinny and scrawny and it’s all hurtful and not right. It scars many people for life and stays with them. Health should be encouraged, not an expectation to look a certain way.
Every woman is beautifully, and specially designed by God. She should embrace her beauty, and femininity. Own it confidently and learn to be comfortable in the skin we’re in. If we’re not, DO something about it.
Lastly, there is somebody for Everybody. The key is when you find a person that loves all of you completely, the good and the bad; will you love them back…..?
The only married friend I have is overweight and wears a size 20+.
Size 20 pre or post kids Kema? And did she get married because she had a kid with the guy? I asked because I know some men who try to be “good men,” and do right by their kids will marry his kids mother.
My friend has been big since I met her in 1st grade. She had a kid but it wasnt his. They have been married for about 10 years.
Oh ok. That’s cool. There are quite a few men who like full figured women.
Bree none of my girls who got married had children.
I bees in this trap, bees bees in this trap. At the end of the day, short, fat, tall, or small. He can say shes beautiful, sweet, everything he wants but ultimately the best adjective a man can give a woman who’s interested is “his”. Game without claim only goes so far (see: girl with 100 likes and 0 plans every weekend or big girl who only gets smashed on the low)
“ultimately the best adjective a man can give a woman who’s interested is “his”. Game without claim only goes so far” Exactly Tristan. That’s what really matters most at the end of the day. Goes back to Vanessa asking Louie how many women he “Dated” not “Fuc***” Big difference
I know im late but you better fawking SAY that!
A little late lol
Please clarify why the woman in the picture is considered “fat?” Monique and the girl that played Precious are fat. This girl imo is “thick.”
Who is qualified to define what is deemed as “fat” “thick” or otherwise…….? Especially when we all have our own individual tastes….ijs
Nah… She fat. Monique (old Monique) and Gabby are obese.
lol @ fat…idk Kema. She looks real hippy. She carries the weight in her hips and thighs. I guess compared to a skinny person like Miley Cyrus or Drea from B-Ball wives she is fat.
What about a tall person with big bone structure, like Wendy Williams? She could possibly be about 200 lbs…but Wendy is almost 6 ft tall without heels on. Some people have the type of
build where they would look crazy as hell if they were skinny and thin.
I think once you have to shop in the plus size section thats fat. And look again at that waist. She carries weight in her tummy and her arms as well. She fly with it tho!
lol @ Kema…girl you are unmerciful…lol. I’m not sure because I’ve only shopped there to buy stuff for my cousin, but doesn’t plus size start at 16?
I think size is relative though. You can tell your Dr. your a 12, but if your under 5’4 and over 140 lbs the Dr. will tell you your overweight. How the clothes are made and the material used makes a difference too. There are probably many bbw’s that stay in a size 12 and stay far far away from the plus size section. And they squeeze into small sizes if the material stretches. My coworker is skinny as hell. But she has something wrong with her that makes her belly stick out like she’s pregnant after she eats. Not only that, this chick snacks and eats junk food like crazy. Imo it’s worse for a slim person because they tend to eat much less healthy and be less mindful of what they eat, as opposed to a bigger person who is trying to lose weight so they eat healthier and they’re more mindful of what they eat.
Wait… How tall is Monique? I’m a shorty myself (5’1) and am currently 140-145. I consider myself about 10-15 lbs overweight but not fat. I wear a 10 and under. Depends on the stretch. lol! And I agree that size is relative cause it ultimately comes down to where you carry the weight and your body fat composition.
meant over 145. According to the BMI index, and medical standards Kema, at our height our weight should be 120 lbs. I was 150 last year and wore a size 12. My BP started going up and growing up I was always too thin…lol. So I actually liked being “thick.” Then my Dr. said, “your BP is getting too high, u need to cut down on your sodium intake and lose some weight.” She went on to tell me that for my height I was too big. lol. I don’t play with my BP because hypertension runs in my family and I’m almost 40.
So I did Zumba, walked, went to the gym at work, did bootcamp with cowrkers, changed up my diet, took some herbs and lost 25 lbs. After I went home for Easter I gained back 5 lbs. Cheesesteaks and home cooked meals will do that to you.
And I think Monique is close to 200 lbs. Or was at her biggest.
Good for you! 125-130 is my goal weight.
That was the most insecure comment I have read on this blog (aside from the trollvinists). Your coworker has a different body type and carries her weight differently, doesn’t mean something is medically wrong. Do you know how all thin people eat? I am very toned and healthy and hear women who are bigger question why I care to maintain my physique aesthetic. I dont eat beef, pork, eggs, or poultry. It is not terrible to care to not be lazy and care about your life and body and to be cognizant of what you put into it. No need to rag on normal healthy sized women who like working out and feeling good in their size 4s! And I wont look crazy at BBWs who wear booty shorts. Each their own.
Beauty, my cowrker told me that she has been diagnosed with something IBDS or something like that and despite her very very slim physique, after she eats her belly sticks out like she is pregnant. I also see her snacking all the time and have lunch with her from time to time. I see her eat unhealthy junk almost every day. I do not know how all thin people eat. But the thin people I do know have horrible diets. I had a horrible diet in college and when I was extremely skinny and weighed about 108. The only thing that kept me that small was taking weight training and aerobics class in the same semester and doing a lot of walking to my different classes. I never said that all thin people have horrible diets. But medical studies have shown that “naturally thinner” people tend to have a poorer diet and bad eating habits because they do not gain weight. So because they know that they can eat whatever they want and not gain any weight, they do just that. This shouldn’t be surprising because this is perpetuated by society. The focus is more on physical appearance, as opposed to healthy eating habits. And I agree beauty, it’s definitely a great thing to care about your health, body, life, and over-all well being. I definitely do, especially as I get older. I want my last years on this earth to be good ones. If I can still go to an amusement park and ride the rides at 70 years old, I damn sure will 🙂
Technically all plus size stores start at a 12. I consider myself a bbw (18). I use to have a problem with dating but that was due to low self esteem that “typically” comes with the “fat girl”. I think people think we struggle because being big isn’t accepted by society let alone having pride about it. Its assumed that all plus size people have self esteem issues.
Monique is like my height. So anything over 135 on her is pretty big. Not enough height for all of that weight to be evenly distributed.
Seemed like Vanessa had no problem being labeled as a “fat girl”, but she wanted the simple things in life (e.g. holding hands in public). It’s not harder for heavier women to find people to date at all. Like @Kwazi_Syle said, “it has to do with personality, character, vibe, chemistry etc…” Confidence is a big piece too. Whether you’re big or small you exude whatever it is that you want, and that is confidence, sex appeal, love etc. The world is quite a judgmental place, but heavier women need not be mute. I love confident women who give no f**ks about other people’s judgement, especially when they happen to be heavier. It empowers all women (vice versa for men). There are a lot of silent struggles out there, but what we need are more listeners. Great post.
Great topic! Can you please remove my picture though because you did not ask for permission to use it and furthermore you did not link back to website http://www.thenaturalfashionista.com You are a content creator of a website like myself, so I know you know better.
Is that you tho? Cuz, hi.
smdh and lmao @ Tristian
Nice blog Kim. You take beautiful pics and love the outfits and natural hair 🙂
To each its own. There’s a man for every body type that exists. We waste far too much time with our pity parties because the magic doesn’t happen when we want it to. From that point the insecurities arise and jealousies begin. Every fat girl I know has a man, while my ass has been single for 7 years. Men just don’t approach me. Difference between me and Vanessa (the woman in the clip) is I’m ok with it. Life is what it is. I enjoy the good moments and shake off the bad. I will not settle for any old relationship, anyways. In addition, I love myself, and create plenty happy moments. No one else is responsible for my happiness. I’m always told how attractive I am and how big my behind is, but none of that moves me. Some day I hope to find a man, but I don’t want it to be fueled by desperation. Fat girls learn to love yourself.
White guys date fat girls, just like men of any other race would. It’s not harder for fat girls. No, they don’t need to mute themselves, they just need to stop the pity party. We are all judged….skinny girls hate being skinny, medium sized swear they are fat, etc… Women are rarely completely happy with themselves.
Black males like big girls over non-big girls on average. If a big girl has a problem dating, it might just be something else going on other than her weight.
I actually used to be a big girl (an actual real big girl, a 300 pound big girl), so I’m going to speak on this from two standpoints:
Big Girl Days:
I never had a problem dating when I was a big girl, probably because I never viewed myself as such. I was just being me. I was sweet when i needed to be, and stood up for myself when i needed to. I dated nerds, athletes, “cool boys” ( i use that term soooo loosely. Picture guys with fitted caps and shit), you name it.
Skinny Girl Days:
I can’t find a date to safe my life. Fin.
It’s actually like how Valerie feels, but the opposite. I can easily flirt with less attractive/athletic men with no problem. They flirt back, they want to court me etc. But when I attempt that with ‘cool boys’ , athletes, business men, or a man who is of my stature they “get scared that maybe they should be with a girl like me.” It’s the oddest thing I have ever experienced.
I think this Louie episode was poignant because it brings up the flaw in people who feel like they can always do better, i think a lot of people are always looking for something better when they have the best right in front of them.
This is just my experience. Not meant to offend anyone.
I don’t see how it would be too tough, as long as she can carry it well and dress nice. –yes I’ve seen quite a few. And a pretty face with a cool personality always goes a long way.
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