“Embracing The Decision To Wait To Have Sex” is the latest episode in @IamJayMayo’s podcast. It was well done. I think it covered damn near every concern one might have if interested. A bulk of the discussion revolved around a man’s willingness to wait on a woman to be ready to have sex. Within that, other conversations with that theme came to mind. The young lady on the podcast being interviewed spoke a little about a man not willing to court a woman nowadays. The man being interviewed on the show spoke on the importance of bonding in other ways besides sex. They both agreed that building a foundation as friends is essential to longevity in the majority of relationships. I agree as well.
What I do disagree with is a man’s lack of desire to court a woman.
I wrote a post here last month titled “Why Men Don’t Put In Work Dating.” It dealt with men not wanting to court women we aren’t sure are worth it. Today’s post differs because it’s about the perspective of wanting to court a woman you think is worth it. I use the word “fear” in my title but maybe that was too strong. Men are certainly skeptical about courting a woman.
In a perfect world, men WANT to court women.
If a man is ready for a meaningful relationship, he will be willing to court. The issue is that guys want to know that things have potential to head somewhere. We’re problem solvers by nature. We’re inclined to want results in whatever we do. A man who wants to build has no issue in building all elements of intimacy. The hanging out, the playing games, and the watching movies etc. are all welcomed. We want to connect with a woman beyond her body. Of course us wanting to be sure that things have potential can make courting less organic. Maybe if we had some assurance without bringing it up ourselves, it could ease all of that.
This topic teeters on the fence of the proverbial friend zone.
A subject that has been written and spoken about ad naseum. Nevertheless, it’s back and it plays some role in our psyche. If a man is into you and wants to court you then he sure should be your friend. But that man does not want to stay at entry-level forever. When a woman says she wants to focus on being friends first, we feel like she’s crying wolf. It isn’t her fault, but the fault of others before her. We don’t always react well to these situations because quite frankly we’re confused. Take “Think Like A Man” for example. Lauren (Taraji) tells Dominic (Michael Ealy) that after all they shared, they should just be friends. He cuts her off mid sentence and finishes it. He’s been down the road that we all have. He has the same response as well. “I have enough friends!” he exclaims. And it’s true; we see something more in you all.
We know the value of friendship.
We see becoming friends as a gamble. If we did start as friends we worry we’ll be put in a box. Moreover, too many women have used “let’s be friends first” as an ugly scapegoat to say they weren’t interested. The biggest thing that really throws us off our game is when a woman says who her ideal man should be. Across the board women say their partner should be their best friend. So when a woman says she doesn’t want to “damage” a friendship, we mentally lose it. We’re mind-boggled. If your partner should be your best friend, then aren’t you risking the ultimate friendship by being with them? There’s something else going on here. There’s another reason for this that I need the ladies to answer.
If you haven’t met enough men willing to take their time and court you it’s because they’re paranoid. It isn’t always because we all want sex and need it on the double. Women have had their hand in the sullying of the courting process as well. That is in need of acknowledgement. Ladies do you agree? Have you always been honest if someone just didn’t have a chance to be more than a friend? Fellas, do you relate to the post? Are we just more skeptical of doing things the “right” way? This version of the conversation is worth having. So let’s chop it up.
I’ll be away in Panama for a week. So I won’t have any stuff up for a little. But if you’d like to see the sights along with me feel free to follow my instagram at @doctapops.
Be well y’all, these are my words and I make no apologies.
DamnPops is a writer on the staff at SBM: “I’m not a biter, I’m a writer for myself and others. ” Brooklyn born dude trying to figure out this life just like you. Come on this journey with me. Follow me on Twitter @DamnPOPS – Damn He Got A Point” (My Column) on Viral Status
Let’s play the feud!!!!
BTW, I LOVE the pic accompanying this blog. Nice!!!!
Agreed. It is a beautiful pic.
“So when a woman says she doesn’t want to “damage” a friendship, we mentally lose it. We’re mind-boggled. If your partner should be your best friend, then aren’t you risking the ultimate friendship by being with them? There’s something else going on here. There’s another reason for this that I need the ladies to answer.”
I had a male say this to me. He said that he has a “special thing” in a friendship with myself and that he is afraid that it could be messed up. If we went down that path and it didn’t work he’s afraid that the relationship wouldn’t be the same.
Personally I believe the best approach to relationships is to not approach relationships at all. Allow it to develop on its own naturally and without intentions and expectations. Spend time together sure. See one another, okay. But there shouldn’t be any expectations as that will add pressure to the ‘courtship ritual’ and both individuals will undoubtedly be placed in an offensive or defensive mode depending on their level of interest.
I say it is good to have interest in getting to know one another, but that is really only what dating and courtship is truly supposed to be about. NOTHING MORE. If there is a romantic connection or spark between the two parties, it will appear and develop organically as a result of getting to know one another. And likewise if it is not.
Check out: “The 5 Benefits Of Becoming Friends Before Lovers”
This too: “Finally, The Right Way To Get And Keep A Relationship”
I can agree with that
I can’t agree with the whole, “no approaching” method. I’d like to know if a man is interested in me. that way I can keep an eye open on him versus other men around me.
I can understand that. The reality is that we are grown. Adult men and women don’t meet to become friends. So if you met someone of the opposite sex (if it isn’t for business) you can safely assume that it is likely an invitation to get to know one another on a personal level. When you and the gent spend time together, it shouldn’t be too difficult to gauge his interest.
Tell that to wp! They stay having friends of the opposite sex while in relationships!….But that’s none of my bizness tho!!!
Hello! No please, avoid eye contact.
My sentiments exactly good sir. Unrealistic expectations are what always kill it. No organic interaction anymore whatsoever…great observation sir!
Sir . Quick question from the back of the class. During all this “organic getting to know each other, no expectation” period , are we doing it? Like bumping uglies? And am I allowed to date others?
No bumping just talking going out, taking those first steps
“Fellas, do you relate to the post? Are we just more skeptical of doing things the “right” way?
There is truth to the skepticism that exists within many men regarding the process of dating. In these modern times, men have evolved with the social times enough to understand that no, not every woman out there is deserving of traditional courtship, i.e dating. There are some women whom you will absolutely date, and there are others you simply ‘have fun with’. Like it or not, that is the truth, and it would be in the best interest of any man to employ this sensible approach and discernment. The men who do not apply the “one brush” method and instead takes each woman individually will allow her to determine for him which route he will take with her. #SmartDating
Nothing worse than investing your time, money and energy into someone you are unsure about only to realize it was a very poor investment decision shortly afterwards.
Dating/courtship isn’t for everyone. It is not a right. It is for a select few that have earned the privilege, once it is determined that embarking upon such a journey is a mutual investment where both parties stand to gain and lose just the same.
In the end, don’t date. Get to know.
Check out: “6 Benefits of Going On A Date…Alone”
This too: “Its The Little Things: 6 Ways Embracing A Lil’ Humanity Can Improve Your Life”
you pretty much echoed my sentiments on it. Everyone wants what they want when they want it….women seem to want to dictate to men how they want it….men seem to want to dictate to women how they want it…or at least how it is going to be. LOL.
“Nothing worse than investing your time, money and energy into someone you are unsure about only to realize it was a very poor investment decision shortly afterwards”
“Dating/courtship isn’t for everyone. It is not a right. It is for a select few that have earned the privilege, once it is determined that embarking upon such a journey is a mutual investment where both parties stand to gain and lose just the same.”
*stands and tips cap*
*chuckles* Oh yes oh King of ZuMunda, women should bow in your ubiquitous honor.”
You invested based on looks and initial convo. Sometimes there’s substance but often there is not. That’s life.
I don’t mind courting. I just don’t wife till I have sex with a woman (or rather, the possibility is not even one until we have sex). True story.
Funny. I don’t get down until “wifed.”
(I hope people know what that means)
Hey, to each their own, right? And, yeah, I am pretty sure people do know.
Doesn’t mean I’ve never had “fun times!” LOL.
Well, if someone makes that assumption, it’s probably more so due to what you do and say than the term itself.
Oh that wasn’t clarification, that was a joke!
“Of course us wanting to be sure that things have potential can make courting less organic. Maybe if we had some assurance without bringing it up ourselves, it could ease all of that.”
I’m all for allowing things to develop organically and really appreciate and respect that in a man that really takes the time to get to know me and allows me to get to know him without all the pressure. My question is how do I give him assurance without completely deviating from this organic vibe…. I don’t want to seem like all of a sudden I’m coming from left field dropping hints. What are things you look for from a woman that would give you that assurance?
Something as simple as you maybe hitting him up before he does. That’s usually a decent sign. It’s good for starters.
Also, by simply keeping his interest. You can be open and available without seeming easy. The art of seduction is just as much mental as physical. I like to call it “flirting with a purpose.”
Afraid, was not too strong of a word, and there’s nothing perfect about this world. Men and women have plenty of fears involving relationships. Expectations are very high while one or both sit back guarded waiting for the other to give more and more to show that he or she is worth it. The reality is if you’re not willing to put in and give 100% into your relationship you shouldn’t expect anyone else to; including your partner. It’s an unfair gauge that’s completely selfish/one-sided. This shows that ones expectations and intentions are less than serious. If this is you, stay away from relationships. Most men do not want to court. They want full access buffet, without any plans or arrangements.
Being friends isn’t a scapegoat measure. I can attempt to get to know plenty of individuals, but that doesn’t mean I want to be in a relationship with any of them. If I don’t know you, from the rip I would not be able to determine if I’d be interested in dating you. That doesn’t mean I’ve copped out of a relationship by friend zoning you. This type of whining is what individuals who typically have a hard time relating to who they like, blame their rejection on. It’s ok not to be in a relationship, especially with someone who doesn’t like you as much as you like them.
I think the problem here is, a lot of men of this generation aren’t schooled in the art of pursuing or courting a woman, and they didn’t have that male figure around to teach them how to. In addition TV and media depicts such negative stigmas on women, especially black women that men don’t think she or their time is worth doing so. And some men who know how probably are impatient so they have that ‘smash and dash’ mentality. It’s a shame though that we hardly go on dates anymore.
Courting has always been a two-way street. Both sides have to be active participants. It’s not just about a man “jumping through hoops”
Exactly. Courtship is a mutual endeavor in which both individuals are demonstrating their mutual interest in procuring a relationship. If there are any hoops to be jumped through, both parties should have their Jordans laced up tight.
The entitlement attitude is a catalyst in the destruction of relationships.
Pursuing relationships … eh… Due to prior experience, I’m not going to put all my eggs into one basket until I’m completely ready. That may be a very long time. If you not trying to wait then you can carry your ass. I’m not going to push sex but if she throw it to me I might just catch that.
I think the real problem is how men and women see “courting”. I think men like the ambiguousness of seeing where it goes whereas women would rather a label such as a friend and then see where it goes. Women want it to be clear cause if we’re not officially dating you, then what are we doing with you. It all goes back to the logic of a beginning, middle and end result for women (maybe i should say most women).
If you think of it this way, it’s kind of scary when you tell most women “we’ll why can we just see how it goes?” But see how what goes? What is this thing we’re doing?
I think that’s the major obsticle in the way for most women. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that women are so programmed with needing to explain our “relationships”with men to make sure we are kept in line and not to deviate away from our ultimate goal which should be to find a good man and lock him down as fast as we can before the next one does!
Great great points!
One problem is for both men and women, ‘let’s just be friends’ actually means ‘I’ll see you when I see you’.
I guess if you say it that way “let’s just be friends” then it usually means exactly that. But for me, while in the courting phase, I would think of a guy as my friend until he proves himself to be otherwise.
You gotta be careful with that though. After a while of being your friend many guys will never look at you the same. Be careful what you wish for.
Really? Do you mean that most men would want something more (either sex or a relationship) after being friends with a woman for a while?
I think if the man never really steps up and proves himself, or there is no chemistry, then all he ever really would be is a friend.
The chemistry part is precisely what I’m talking about people screwing up with the ‘friends’ tag. That can be a slippery slope for some men.
A lot of us don’t feel we have to prove anything, either you like us or don’t. In those cases we tend to assume there is no chemistry and move on. I myself had to learn that these types of women who would rather be ‘friends’ were simply just saying that because one-by-one over the years they have never made an effort to maintain contact until they’d found out I was dating new women they either knew or had heard about. I’ve gotten several calls like that or have been stopped in public by ‘friends’ like that in my time. It’s laughable too because they tend to bring up what could have been but whatever chemistry I felt at the time had been stomped out long ago.
I agree with you there. Assumption is dangerous!! It is laughable especially if in the beginning you were initially interested in a woman and she was interested too but nothing happened. That’s what I don’t get either. As for what the woman was thinking, she was probably afraid of asking were the two of you stood and was confused.
A lot of men want to dodge that question. So if a man and woman don’t communicate and know exactly where they stand, the end result would be one of two scenarios; the two kind of stop talking less and less over time until your situation happens or they become friends. And that is a shame especially if there was interest on both sides. I don’t think being friends is the problem. I think not communicating and assuming are the bigger problems here.
I think a woman who asks to be friends first is not necessarily acting out on previous relationships (gone wrong) but more on her self love to know that she wants to know the man that she is about to allow into her life, especially if she is looking for something serious. Men should understand that when a woman wants to take her time to enter a relationship, that says a lot about her character. It shows her self respect, dignity and standards. There are not many women like that nowadays. I believe a woman, or man, who operated this way are true diamonds in the midst of rocks.