Recently I read a Facebook status in which a guy was speaking in retrospect. The following I’ll be pretty much paraphrasing. The man goes on to say that he was curved for being too sophisticated and nice. he says that the man that the woman eventually curved him for was less sophisticated and ultimately got the said woman pregnant. In the end the other guy doesn’t stick around to be in the child’s life and the man writing the post is seemingly thriving in his. He went on to say that the woman “thought she had it all figured out prior to pregnancy, how about now?”
What followed this Facebook status were many women calling the poster bitter.
One woman even said that he should thank God for dodging a bullet instead of trying to bash someone who was served a dose of harsh reality. There was some bitterness to the post admittedly. At the same time there is much more under the surface than how the post came across.
There’s so much irony that I think this guy felt prior to posting this status.
The most obvious irony was that he was now in a more advantageous position now than when he started talking to this woman. The other irony here is that here lays this woman whom this guy was once gaga for. In essence it seems like he sees her as damaged goods now. In his mind this woman lowered her stock once she didn’t choose him. I loosely touch on that subject here in a past post. Right or wrong, that’s probably this guy’s thought process.
What he experienced here I think many men have.
I also feel that what he expressed wasn’t solely out of any bitterness. It did have a stench of bitter. To me, it was him saying “yeah, I did dodge a bullet.” In my own life I have seen similar patterns with women. Something that I think many people can relate to is the proverbial “back then they didn’t want me, now I’m hot…” This could pertain to someone losing weight, or reaching a certain level of prestige. At one point someone wasn’t checking for you, now all of a sudden they are. Many times with women, they don’t see the benefits in some guys until they’re older or they’ve become a single parent (in this case). I’m sure there are many reasons for this, but none that I will speak on today. My point is just that life has a way of humbling us all. We all get older and begin to realize what’s really important.
The guy that wrote this status was shedding light on this. What he was looking for in response was accountability. A lot of men would love to hear a woman say “I was wrong” or “I apologize.” Men are asked to be accountable all of the time. For those of us who are, it’s refreshing to hear a woman say that she might’ve made a wrong decision. The women who commented on this status were all defensive. They wouldn’t give his situation not one strand of credence. I thought that was unfair.
The status could have been worded differently.
But what the status provided me with was an idea to bring this discussion on this platform. If we all concede that the status was bitter, can we still have a conversation about making wise choices? Although women can always counter this all by saying that “you like who you like,” I still think there’s room for discussion. We can ask if maturity in a woman’s case is ever a factor when things like this happen? We could also ask if women really believe that their alternative choice is the better choice? I see no harm is having this dialogue. I think all of us, men or women have experienced this type of thing first hand or have seen it through friends.
Albeit a status that lacks finesse and decorum that you’d need to yield constructive feedback from women; it is relevant. In speaking about delicate subjects like this you damn near have to walk on egg shells when you’re being critical of women. That doesn’t guarantee you getting humility from them in return either. But it harkens back to my post title. Can men ever successfully call women out on anything? Can women do any wrong? What do you say? What are your thoughts on the Facebook status? How would you handle things differently? The status wasn’t perfect, but I took constructive things from it.
These are my words and I make no apologies.
DamnPops is a writer on the staff at SBM: “I’m not a biter, I’m a writer for myself and others. ” Brooklyn born dude trying to figure out this life just like you. Come on this journey with me. Follow me on Twitter @DamnPOPS
A man can look for accountability in the woman that messed up, but he should never look for a woman to apologize for another woman’s mistake. It’s the same for us women. I wouldn’t be looking for one man to apologize for what some stupid guy did, because that would essentially make me bitter to all men.
I will never understand men. How does this have anything to do with accountability? Men call women out constantly. He may not get a response back, but women are always called out. It’s the poor behavior of men that is constantly ignored as male behavior.
His words sound bitter to me. If one has really moved on with their life the actions of someone from their past would be irrelevant. Why would anyone want an apology, for not being chosen? What will you gain from that insight? Simply to make them feel better for a few minutes. She doesn’t owe you an explanation much less an apology.
There was a guy who was crazy about me. He felt as if we had compatibility that did not exist. I was an ideal because I looked good on his arm. I was supposed to ignore his constant cutting me off and him telling me how I felt, answering questions directed at me, explaining my position to others so that it mirrored his thoughts, his wanting me at his every beck and call as his housewife, etc… He looked great in person and on paper, but was not for me. He too is very bitter and gloats of how he has a successful marriage while mine did not last. He feels I made the wrong choice and tells me he would’ve been the better choice. He wanted to know why I didn’t choose him. When I told him he was a pompous egotistical a$$ who was more interested in public perception than working on his relationship, he got very angry. He called me a fool, and I replied “a very happy fool”.
Men who need an apology are typically weak, whiny insecure men. SO NOT MY TYPE. These men think they’re “BETTER” and self regard with a “God’s Gift to women” complex. The thought of any woman not choosing them is repulsive. (…for the record, I’ve never dated a thug/bad boy either; no interest their either.)
Everyone is not going to like you, so suck it up and move forward.
But your attitude is part of a conundrum: Men who try to express themselves are deemed whiny, etc. A woman who expresses herself is “venting” or “expressing herself”.
Truth is the nature of women is its very hard for them to be accountable. The quicker you accept that as a man the less headaches/frustrations you have. Just how it is. So for example if you hurt a woman, u gotta own it, be sorry etc. If a woman hurts or disappoints you, its pretty much “get over it”. I personally never air my personal grievances with my lady, i go to her about it. But even that is tricky, because while women can tell u when you’re wrong, it doesn’t
always work both ways because women don’t embrace being told when they are wrong. There’s also some reverse sexism involved, because a man voicing his issues with you is “whiny” and thus “unmanly”. Then of course if he doesn’t communicate he’s labeled “emotionally unavailable”. And that’s not fair. I believe that “damned if u do damned if u don’t” conundrum is part of what causes a lot of men to feel stuck and to suffer in silence, and do (wrong) things like cheat or disappear/leave without ever expressing their issues with you.
There are of course tons of double standards where men aren’t allowed to feel certain things, but men need an outlet too and men need to communicate as well. But if u ask me a lot of times black men are made to feel they cant expressthemselves or they are being a whiny bitch, and that perception is exactly why a lot of dudes just forego communication and just up and leave or disappear or engage in other not so good responses. It’s a catch 22. But men are human too, I think too many times our women (black women) have a hard time grasping that, maybe our notions of masculinity are a little off in that regard.
As far as the facebook post: All u need to know bout this double standard is if the gender roles were reversed here, women reading that this facebook status would react completely different. Women are never held accountable. I had a convo recently about how certain behaviors women engage in (think bashing in his car windows or think Angela Bassett setting the car on fire in “Exhale”) are somehow exalted when really those are actions are extremely dangerous/irresponsible. But I remember seeing Exhale in theaters and all the women clapped at that scene. A woman explains such bad behavior away as the result of being “emotional”, which to me sets women back cuz its almost as if women are supposed to be thought of as children with no ability to be held accountable for their irrationality. But of course if a man pulled a Angela Bassett, we already know how he’s depicted. Same with this dude’ status update, if it were a woman the reactions would be far different and think that’s wrong.
PLEASE, don’t put words in my mouth or try to define me. You don’t k ow me and I do not have an attitude. I am easy to get along with, attentive yet reserved, and very soft spoken, but I don’t accept excuses from anyone. I have never met this always humbled across the board black man ready to concede, as you’re trying to portray.. Just as all men are different so are women. If you choose the aggressive never wrong woman, then that says a lot about you.
When it comes to being bitter and whiny there are a host of men claiming that within itself is a “black woman’s” trait, as opposed to reflecting on his own bad judgment. I would have no problem saying the same thing about women, and have said it personally to more women than I have men.
A black man expressing himself is NOT automatically a whiny man. A whiny man is the only man who I call whiny. Men are almost always in denial about this as if it is impossible for men to be this way. Then some men come off accusing women for how he chooses to act. Life is about making choices, choose wisely and that includes all of your decisions in life. Please don’t accuse me of hating on black men, or disallowing them to be men or express themselves, simply because I like strong men. I don’t date weak whiny men, ever. Any men claiming that a woman has to “let them be men” is a red flag for me. No one has to let you be what you are. Maybe if weak men express themselves more openly they’d start to self reflect and grow out of it….just whine to the people who can take it. The problem is also in assuming you are the “norm”. I don’t think you are. For the record all black men are not weak.
“Calling out” anyone particularly online, is puerile. Now if we’re talking one on one, I should be able to speak my piece without any issue aside from ego and a lack of accountability. Its that same ego that prevents some women from listening to their ex only to turn around and let Steve Harvey tell them how to get chose
I def agree there, his choice to do so publicly wasn’t the smartest thing.
Can men ever successfully call women out on anything?—– Apparently Not, but seemingly Men in general can be, “black on black crime and dysfunctional families” can be used to stray awy from speciic topics, etc. To TRY and as Women in general to TRY to have Accountability is akin to the whole “Submissive” miscontruing- Ladies Hear what they WANT to Hear
Can women do any wrong?—— Last I checked Women are Human, and yet Guys don’t get the same understanding about Being Human……
What do you say? What are your thoughts on the Facebook status?——He sad what he said, and How the Mssage is taken is Not His Problem. If you can’t see the nuance of his words or the Big Picture it’s because you Choose Not To for Whatever Reason….
How would you handle things differently?—— We all have biases, preferences, and standards we want in a mate; whether or not WE meet the Other’s and IF we are willing to compromise for a relationship is Up to Us and Our Relationship- NOT for Society or “Gender Norms/Rules/Tradition/Etc”
Generally speaking…no. gender roles, stuff like that. same way whites can’t talk to black on anything concerning race or society.
in general, apparently not. black girls are magic. BUT, if you see someone using Dark Arts, just peep game and move with your feet. understand that as a black male in america, you’re always at fault. keep the mask on, grin and bear it, and gripe to your drinking buddies.
tact and wording are so important. especially when you’re trying to get your point across. funny how the same sentences in English can vary from ‘spirited’ to ‘spiteful’, depending on who reads it. i can imagine what the post looked like, and i know some guys who mean well but come off as ‘bitter’ (some of y’all might think i’m bitter due to the answers i’ve provided up above). most females don’t like when males start to whine, or complain about any part of their situations, so that’s not something i would ever bring out publicly, or even in that matter around the opposite sex.
but as you stated, the main thing is, as you get older, it’s not so much as a matter of holding something over someone (as in ‘yea, i’m so much better than you now that i don’t have to deal with you’…aka Beyonce’s “irreplaceable”) but understanding that everything..well…most things, happen for a reason. so instead of making a congratulatory status about ‘dodging a bullet with this chick’…taking a more reflective stance, in terms of seeing the signs that she didn’t want you and not getting involved, and being grateful to still be on that search for the right one…THAT would be a better way to phrase it.
but that’s how -i- would handle it, on a public forum such as facebook.
Men or Boys? It’s a very fine line if you ask me. At the end of the day there’s a way of calling a woman out & I believe there is a difference. So I will say males call women out all the time especially on facebook and instagram with the memes. Its even gotten to the point of some males feeling the need to try and guide grown women into what they believe to be a better woman. When any man post in regards to women that can be taken negative on social media, he should already expect the wrath of the defensive woman. Woman sometimes read to fast and jump on the defensive band-wagon without really reading and getting a better understanding of what a man is trying to say. Of course woman can do wrong we’re human right, but the chances of some women admitting to that is where the real problem lies.
Honestly when I see men posting certain things about there upsets when it comes to women, I just say to myself men can be bitter too
I believe men can call women out successfully, but to be honest, rarely have I seen it done right.
Years ago, I was on the bus going to work and there were teenagers (girls and boys) sitting at the back being very loud (they were all black). A young black man came on the bus and almost immediately noticed the teenagers in the back. He glaced back at them a few times hoping they got the hint, but eventually he had enough. He stood up and went right up to them and told them to stop acting like fools, but more importantly told the girls to have more respect for themselves and start acting like the beautiful young ladies they were born to be.
I was shocked and kind of afraid for this brave soul but it worked! Something about how he just stood up and said what needed to be said, cause deep down they all knew he was right (BTW as a woman I found this extremely attractive!!)
My point is that it takes a real man to not only see the behavior that needs to be corrected, but also know how to act and what to say in order to correct it.
So yes a man can successfully call a woman out.
Why were the boys allowed to be loud but the girls seen as less ladylike for it? Why were they specifically called out? Seen and not heard maybe…..hmmmmm
Oh no…it wasn’t like that at all…the girls and boys were friends all in one group and all of them were loud. This young men addressed the group collectively then spoke to the boys AND the girls. He spoke to them for a few minutes and in my opinion, the boys got the brunt of it. I skipped over that cause my point was about men calling out women, but in this case both boys and girls were called out.
j-kay-elle, sounds like old school discipline was in effect that day. Usually, some kids would have a “you’re not my daddy” come back. It goes to show there are kids who will listen.
Yes something that is too rare nowadays!!
This scenario is the equivalent to the female who is bitter and still longing for a man who has moved on…. When the new female cheats or uses him does he ever go and apologize to the bitter one? NO, he doesn’t. He ignores her and keeps it moving.
I never understand anyone asking for more than he/she would give.
That status was pretty bitter lol. I mean, this EXACT situation happened to me when it came to an ex (said I wasn’t “hood” enough smh; I guess striving towards financial stability while NOT hustling or paying for studio time was for Simps), BUT I never blasted her on social media when life SEEMED (key word) to turn south for her. Part of getting over someone is accepting you were never meant to be, but just to meet.
As for the calling women out…idk. I see it mostly in blogs: when there is a post about Deadbeat Dad’s needing to get their ish together, women applaud and men agree. Perfectly OK. There is no real defense to selfishly turning your back on your ultimate responsibility. But I’ve only once seen a blog calling out Deadbeat Moms (yes they do exist)….and that comments section…quite a few women were tearing that guy a new one; basically saying how you don’t know anybody’s situation, you sound bitter, mommy didn’t hug you enough, blah blah blah. I mean, those chicks went IN! LOL. So I kinda see where Pops is coming from.
Men, especially Black men aren’t allowed to have feelings for some reason. It doesn’t seem like he directed his message at any one woman specifically. He was hurt and he expressed it. If those women commenting were truly his friends maybe they might take a minute to see things from his point of view.
Also, I wish people would stop using bitterness as some especially horrible emotion. Happiness, sadness, anger whatever . . . they are all emotions that we all have at sometime. If he was bitter, so what. It’s better to let that shit out than to hold it in and fester.
He just needs more supportive female friends on his Facebook page it seems.
Can women be called out? Nah…that’s silly.
As everyone knows, WOMEN ARE NEVER WRONG.
Come on…..that’s silly! No one is more perfect than men. It’s always someone else’s fault, ’cause you didn’t mean to….least accountable of the sexes.
Lol they’ll never be resolution with these sorts of things, but I think ultimately we balance each other out.
I was being a bit facetious, as I don’t hold true to those words. There’s never resolution, because someone has higher expectations than what he is due and won’t be happy until it all plays out on his terms alone….. Men telling women how she feels is absurd. Assuming he should be her regretful mistake is mighty cocky of him. Linking his cockiness to the fact a woman won’t apologize to him as a woman not accepting responsibility for her actions is a bit far fetched.
Can men successfully call out women? Idk about successfully, but you can call women out. I’ve always believed that both genders are responsible for the state of affairs when it comes to parenting and relationships. However, I have notice that SOME (and i think this is where some guys lose the crowd when speaking in general) women do not take responsibility for their part. However, on the flip side, you can’t just be with someone who looks good on paper but just doesnt have the chemistry. People tend to think because you didn’t want to be with me you are a horrid person and i’m glad that your life took the turn. But just because you are a good person doesn’t mean you are the right person. When I see men and women do that on social media I just think “back then they didn’t want me, now i’m hot they all on me”. You dodged a bullet, good for you! Keep it moving.
I hear that too
Sadly many men feel this way. They want women to stay with them even if she’s miserable. After all he wants to be allowed the opportunity to prove himself, indefinitely. This is really sad and men can only see it as sad and desperate if women are doing it. The reality is both sexes share the same behavior. We’re not as different as we choose to believe.
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Totally agree with the author. I am a 33yr old woman who “acquired” the ability to be perfect through alot of self reflection from my bf who constantly called me out on my BS in my 20s. (Which ranged from me bailing my ex aka kids father out of jail even tho he didnt take care of our kids to me calling my bf gay because he was” too nice”.(I cldnt help but laugh when the fb post said he was “too sophisticated”. We women can say some crazy things.
My bf never approached me in an aggressive/disrespectful way. He is an amazing man. Most great men are very rational and calm. It was always him stating facts, then me not liking to hear the truth. I’d get defensive and want to end things. It takes an extremely mature woman to initially know she is in the prescence of a “real man” especially if she is unaware( regardless of her age ) that has yet embrace one.
I said Im perfect because I am and will continue to be the sum of all my experiences minus the desire to always be right, drama, negativity, emotional over reasonable outbursts etc in a relationship.Even with the paraphrasing my mind immediately went to “good guys finish last” cliche that is alive and well.
Sure his feelings were prob hurt a little but moreso with the fact that most women claim to be the creme de la creme and seek nothing less in a man (that man gives them that )and then the woman turns around and contradicts themselves. When does it end? From my experience after a breakup with my bf I took a good look at myself and realized his points were indeed valid. It ends when women can take criticism digest it rationally and grow accordingly.
Lifeisgr8, what you shared about your bf’s approach is what a lot men lack…respectful, rational and calm dispositions when bringing up an action for which they want their women to be accountable. Most times when a person knows right is on their side, they make the mistake of being aggressive which provokes the other person to be defensive before they will be accountable. That’s one reason a lot of couples go in circles over old issues. The aggressive mate will not admit to the wrong approach on ‘the call’ … and the ‘called out’ mate is likely to hold out on being accountable because of the new issue of the aggressive approach.
I don’t think any woman in her right mind would drop a man for being “too sophisticated and nice.” Really? She may have curved/curbed him because of his arrogance. If he could come to such a conclusion as if those were her words, he’s arrogant. I’m willing to bet most of their discussions were about him. She just got tired of it and was driven into another man’s arms.
Okay. That’s just speculation, I know; but to answer your questions, “Can men ever successfully call women out on anything?” Yes. Men can call us out on anything, but women just cannot call men out in the same moment or we get accused of trying to flip the script.
There is so much that can be speculated from his post. Even if the woman is expected to own up to what appeared to be a bad decision, Mr. Too Sophisticated and Nice has some owning up to do also. Something happened or did not happen to make her decide to choose another man.
Now granted, there are women who might think a gentleman is too soft for their taste, but there is a big difference between arrogance and chivalry.
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